Blues hopes mangled in unmitigated red card disaster

Michael Kenrick 15/05/2022 570comments  |  Jump to last

Fabian Delph is ruled out with a muscle injury

Everton went ahead early through a flukey goal claimed by Calvert-Lewin, only to have Branthwaite and then Rondon dismissed as they twice gave up the lead to Eriksen's brilliant orchestration for the vsitors.

Other results earlier this afternoon meant that a win would keep Everton above Leeds Utd and outside of the relegation zone in the three-way battle for 18th place, with two more games to play.

Everton are without Fabian Delph after he was ruled out with a muscle injury. Allan is only on the bench with Gomes getting a starting berth.

Ben Godfrey and Donny van de Beek are still out injured. Demarai Gray is dropped to the bench. Dominic Calvert-Lewin starts for the first time in more than a month, while Jarrad Branthwaite makes only his third start with Mina, Godfrey and now Keane all out (Keane ill overnight).

Another packed and highly vocal Goodison Park did their utmost to create a tremendous atmosphere leading up to Gordon's kickoff. Everton got the all forward well and Mykolenko won the first corner. Mykolenko sliced the clearing header wide.

A long ball forward for Everton is headed on by DCL, Richarldion touching t on to Gordon whose chip is patted up by Raya, Richarison heading the rebound inches wide of the post. A glorious chance that should have been a goal.

A silly free-kick is given up at the other end in a very lively start, Ekiksen's brilliant ball in headed just over by Toney. Bak at the other end and Richarlisn waves his foot at a high ball from iwobi, driving it wide.

Gordon did well to get around the back but a typical cross from him, defended behind, and the corner delivery not good enough. A tremendous one start to the age for both sides. Gordon, gambled on a sandwich move and went down dramatically, winning a free-kick and a yellow card for Sorensen.

From the free-kick, Richarlison bobbles it into the Brentford net, with Calvert-Lewin claiming it brushed off his chest before crossing the line! A tremendous start as just reward for the fantastic Goodison crowd.

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In the Euphoria, Everton's players had to buckle down and stay alert as Brentford looked to benefit parasitically on the crowd noise filling Goodison Park.

Richarlison claimed his shirt was pulled but Brentford cleared the ball and Branthwaite tangled with Towney and was immediately shown the red card as the last defender. The VAR made no move on Richarlison's claim, and so the red card stands.

Eriksen fired the resulting free-kick superbly over the wall and inches wide of the post. Reduced to 10 men, Everton resorted to regard action as Brentford looked to take advantage. No changes from Lampard.

Doucore did well to start a break but Norgaard decided to stop him for a yellow card. the free-kick from Pickford was ridiculous, straight out of play.

But the mistakes were starting to appear in the depleted defence, Iwobi coming across to clip a dangerous ball inches over the Everton bar. In the next Brentford attack, Gomes played a clearance straight to Jensen who struck it across goal.

Richarlison collapsed dramatically under pressure, staying down for ages and getting his wrist well wrapped for good measure. Gomes produced a nice strike on target from a long way about that drew a fine leaping save by Raya.

But from a Brentford corner, they kept the ball alive and Wissa'a cross clipped off Coleman past Pickford for an equalizing own-goal.

DCL tried to advance with the ball and was taken out by Ajer (yellow card). From the free-kick, Gordon could not fashion a shot but Doucour'é's was miles off target. Meanwhile, Jensen got his shot on target at the other end, forcing a Pickford save.

Mykolenko went on a great run but Richarlison could not get out of a four-man cul-de-sac. At the other end, a fantastic ball over the top from Eriksen was met well by Towney but Pickford anticipated well. Then Jensen fired in a wicked curler that Pickford got across superbly to save well.

Richarlson challenging in the Brentford area, feels a touch from one of two centre-halves and collapses in a heap. Michael Oliver incredibly says penalty. Richarlison insisted on taking it, stutter-step, and scored.

What an incredible half of crazy mad-cap football!

The second half began with Brentford looking to take advantage of the extra man. But Iwobi had other ideas, stealing possession for Richarlison to advance and cross in perfectly for Calvert-Lewin except he was inches behind the ball.

It was helter-skelter stuff as Everton looked to defend with yellow shirts scampering this way and that, Eriksen behind everything, Pickford launching himself to punch the ball away dramatically.

For Everton, Calvert-Lewin was doing his best to get underneath the aerial clearances but it was a thankless pursuit as Brentford kept pushing the Blues defence back and it was a lottery where the ball would end up..

Iwobi gave up a dangerous free-kick delivered superbly again by Eriksen, and somehow defended away. But Mykolenko somehow getting sucked in by Toney grabbing his shirt, and feigning a head-butt but nothing more given after the VAR check.

An outrageous piece of ball control by Richarlison on his shoulder from a superb crossfield pass from Iwobi was spoilt somewhat when he passed it straight to a yellow shirt.

Brentofrd forced a corner, Eriksen again whipping in a tremendous ball that Wissa got underneath and scored from the narrowest of angles despite Richarlison's attentions.

Brentford kept attacking and Henry got behind an excellent cross, powering past Pickford, to finally give Brentford the lead.

Everton tried what they had not been doing, attacking with 10 men, but the situation was increasingly desperate as they had allowed the genius that is Christian Eriksen the freedom of the field to conjure up attack after debilitating attack.

Gordon did well to intercept but DOucouré passed straight to a defender, and Brentford fashioned another attack, Henry mis-hitting his shot.

Richarlison did well to force a corner, ridiculously sent out of play by Mykoleno, as Gordon was replaced by Gray and Kenny replaced Gomes.

Everton almost created an attack but Richarlison was offside. Pickford wellied the ball miles upfield with no-one anywhere near it. Kenny played the ball straight to a Brentford man and they launched yet another attack, Mbuemo skying it over.

Richarlison did well to draw a foul in an advanced location, the free-kick fired over to Dououré who headed down and up off the post. The corner was decent from Gray but still no real chances on goal for the Blues, Iwobi chipping the ball poorly into Raya's arms.

Everton's passing in possession was shockingly poor, Coleman giving up the ball far too easily as they tried again to build something, Pickford again launching the ball way too far.

Everton's passing was just shocking, Eriksen getting a chance to shoot surprisingly wide. Rondo came on in place of Coleman for the last effort to rescue something from this Greek tragedy if a disaster.

Demarai Gray tried to work something onto the Brentford area but it was blocked. Rondon and Richarlsin tried to blunder their way forward, as Everton provided pressure unseen since the first 20 minutes. Was it too little, too late?

An astounding moment where Rondon, went in with a ridiculous challenge and was sent off to a second red card for Everton, after he was on the field for less than 5 minutes.

Brentford swarmed the 9 men of Everton, Holgate miraculously heading away a great shot from Eriksen with Pickford well beaten as 4 minutes of added time were signalled.

Everton how had to think only of defending to hold the scoreline, Brentford smelling late blood.

Kick-off: 4:30 pm, Sunday 15 May 2022 on Sky Sports

Everton: Pickford, Mykolenko, Holgate, Branthwaite [R:18'], Coleman (84' Rondon [R:88']), Iwobi, Doucoure, Gomes (72' Kenny), Gordon (72' Gray), Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin.
Subs: Begovic, Allan, Davies, Dele, Price, Welch.

Brentford: Raya, Henry, Nørgaard [Y:27'], Jensen, Wissa (75' Roerslev), Toney, Jansson, Mbeumo, Ajer [Y:17'] (59' Dasilva), Eriksen, Sørensen [Y:8'] (46' Janelt).
Subs: Lössl, Canós, Jeanvier, Peart-Harris, Baptiste, Stevens.


Referee: Michael Oliver
VAR: Darren England

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George Cumiskey
1 Posted 15/05/2022 at 15:59:40
Where's Keane ?
Robert Tressell
2 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:00:59
Surprising line up. Come on Everton. Come on Calvert-Lewin.
Rob Hooton
3 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:04:42
Didn’t see that lineup coming! Keane must be injured?
Gomes biggest worry, hopefully Iwobi is in midfield offering some pace.
Hopefully DCL is fired up and ready for this, hope he has a good game. Richy in his best position today IMO.
Winnable game.
Christine Foster
4 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:05:44
Leeds drew..a win and we are safe. Gomes? No Keane?
Kieran Kinsella
5 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:05:55
Hate those people who second guess the line up before a ball has been locked but against a high energy team we turn to Gomes and DCL the two most lethargic players in the squad?
Tony Twist
6 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:06:11
What is it with these managers and over - thinking these things. This was the game to be water tight, not bring in Gomes after weeks out. Ridiculous decision.
Neil Lawson
7 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:08:10
The late Leeds equaliser looks to even more significant given the line up. It may well be an even more anxious and nerve jangling 90 mins than we all anticipated. Need the win now to sleep easily tonight. Too old for any more stress.
Bill Gienapp
8 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:08:46
According to Twitter, Keane is out with illness. No idea what Lampard's playing at with Gomes being picked over Allan, but fingers crossed!
Colin Malone
9 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:10:03
Gomes is not a holding midfielder.
Kieran Kinsella
10 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:11:04
Maybe Frank is trying to outwit the other Frank by throwing in Gomes. No one would have expected that
Steve Shave
11 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:13:02
I know I am literally the only person on here who still likes Gomes but let's not forget Gomes tore Brentford apart in Frank's first game in charge. For those with short memories watch this whilst waiting for the KO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko2W6_g2ipg
Alan J Thompson
12 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:14:19
Wow! I suppose we'll have to wait to see where Iwobi lines up. Or, we are going to go all out for a goal in the first five minutes then send on all and any defensive players to hold on to it, Kitap-1 or variant thereof. It's in our own....yeah, well.
Will Mabon
13 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:19:23
Will Mabon
14 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:21:02
After the rumour that Calvert-Lewin has actually talked with Newcastle, I really hope he shows some commitment.

The Gomes thing - I have no idea. Surely Allan must be borderline fitness-wise?

Tony Twist
15 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:22:10
Gomes might have been reasonable the last time we played Brentford but, correct me if I am wrong, that was a Brentford without Erikson and that was on a poor run of form. This is a totally different Brentford. Clueless, risky decision which in my opinion shows the naivety of our manager. Fingers crossed, luck is on our side but I can't help but feel this crap weekend is going to continue. I hope I am made to look an idiot with a comfortable Everton win. COYB.
Colette Black
16 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:23:27
Perhaps Gomes and Calvert-Lewin were on fire in training?

... Or perhaps more realistically we are just under cooked.

Whatever, with the Leeds result, we absolutely have to win today.

Ajay Gopal
17 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:23:47
The team will be backed 100% by the Goodison crowd, no doubt about it. I think we will need to score 2 goals to win this as an Ivan Toney penalty is nailed on. Frank should not go back to the ultra defensive stand for this one, although it has worked well against the likes of Man United, Chelsea, Leicester. Let the players play without fear, and we should get a result.
Steve Shave
18 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:25:48
I hear what you are saying Tony but we will just have to wait and see. We don't see what Frank and his team see in training, maybe Andre and DCL were showing real desire? I for one hope they both have a blinder. COYB!
Henrik Lyngsie
19 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:31:32
I think Lampard wants to play more offensive than the last few games. Hence Gomes instead of Allan as he is a better passer of the ball. I like that as I like us playing Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison on the left.

I am still not sold on Iwobi and his lack of end product.

Ernie Baywood
20 Posted 15/05/2022 at 16:55:08
Well this is going to be tense now.

If Richarlison goes down, we get a penalty there. It shouldn't matter but it's what happened.

Any point to VAR?

Christy Ring
21 Posted 15/05/2022 at 17:11:40
He has to take off Gomes and bring on Allan now. Did VAR even check the shirt pull on Richarlison?
Derek Knox
22 Posted 15/05/2022 at 17:23:31
Whatever happens before next season, we must keep Richarlison, let Calvert-Lewin go, if we get the right offers. Pity with Jarrad but playing okay with 10 men!
Alan J Thompson
23 Posted 15/05/2022 at 17:29:26
Well, that was a hectic start and looked like we wanted it. Settled in the first 10 minutes as there were plenty getting forward and movement all over.

I thought Branthwaite was unlucky as there was no intent and it looked like it was caused by the Brentford player running across him but, as our luck would have it, their man could well have been through.

As for their goal, Gomes should have wellied when it was on the corner of the box rather than try to play out and then Coleman stopped 5 yards from their man when he should have closed him right down while Gomes, again, looked like he was trying to stop the Brentford man from passing back to his own keeper, they really do have to wake up to their positioning. And I assume the difference between Branthwaite being sent off and nothing against their man was because the penalty had been given.

Interesting to see what the set up will be for the 2nd half and how vital going for Watford in the same way might be.

Christy Ring
24 Posted 15/05/2022 at 17:33:30
Can someone explain why Ajer didn't get a 2nd yellow for the penalty? Have referees got an agenda against us?
Kieran Kinsella
25 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:21:40
I can’t fathom what Rondon was even attempting to do there. Or is he just throwing the towel in for the season?
Phil Rodgers
26 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:29:24
We gave ourselves a chance but we have absolutely blown it today. It's probably what we deserve over course in of the season. Devastating
George Cumiskey
27 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:29:30
If he plays Gomes and Doucouré in the next gam,e then we deserve to go down.
Ernie Baywood
28 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:32:07
Well on we go to the Palace game.

The game hinged on the VAR decision. Yes our penalty was soft but by then we're playing a good side with a man down and it told in the end. It's debatable whether we're good enough with 11, never mind 10.

As for Rondon. Stupid. A fitting end.

Derek Knox
29 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:32:48
Christy @ 24, Quick answer, bell-end refereeing again! I know I may be biased but I have talked to many supporters of other clubs, and they agree it is a farce! Not as easy job at the speed of games but they have the benefit of replays, the VAR etc, so no excuse.
Bernie Quinn
30 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:32:54
Missed the 2 early games by being sick in bed. Wife drags me out for Everton's 2nd half. Why? That Micheal Oliver hates us and a real jinx! I'm staggering back to bed now... probably to die.
Craig Walker
31 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:33:36
Why didn’t Branthwaite just let him through? He’d still have to score. Got nervous when I saw Gomes in the starting XI. I don’t like him. Not good defensively or going forwards. I’d have brought Allan on at half time.

It’s still in our hands. Beat Crystal Palace and we’re safe. I still think Brentford can beat Leeds.

Ernie Baywood
32 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:34:29
And we saw why Delph looked reasonable in the last few games. It's because he's not Doucouré or Gomes. No idea how Allan isn't ahead of them on account of being an average midfielder.
Daniel A Johnson
33 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:36:06
That half-arsed lazy Watford performance is coming back to haunt us.

How many chances do we have to blow to complete the job?

Andy Mead
34 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:36:11
These players don't deserve those fans. Blown it again.

We got exactly what we deserved. Sat back at half-time and handed the game to them. It looked like we had 7 against 15, such was Brentford's passing and moving. 1 man difference shouldn't be that one-sided.

I can't wait for this season to end and 90% of these players to fuck off. Keep Pickford, Mykolenko and Richarlison and I couldn't care less about the rest. I've never felt so disconnected with an Everton team as I do this one.

Tony Twist
35 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:36:24
Amateur hour at Goodison Park. Manager started this all off with his team selection. He has sent us down.
Alan J Thompson
36 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:37:08
Brentford came out in the 2nd half and gave us a possession-based 11 v 10 football lesson.

Calvert-Lewin had a chance but decided to try and chest it in instead of using his head and then Richarlison doesn't make enough effort on the near post for their second and Gordon does something similar for the third when he needed to try at least to make a challenging header.

With 15 minutes to go, you knew it wasn't going to happen and Rondon's two-footed tackle just about completed an awful afternoon.

It annoys me to say it but that's all the "I know better than you, what a great point at Watford reserves, and we'll win at home – it's in our own hands" mediocrity deserves. Ohh, F...

George Cumiskey
37 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:38:34
Where's all the ones who said the Watford game was a point gained? 🤣😂☺️😉
Susong Hermawan
38 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:39:46
Deluded, and I'm a fan...
Kieran Kinsella
39 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:44:15
Bernie/Derek

Oliver is a sideshow. He made a mistake but so did Branthwaite and Rondon, plus Frank starting Gomes then trying to sit back when Holgate of all people was our only centre-back.

We've lost 20 games this season so yeah refs have hurt us here and there but not to the extent of 20 losses. Richarlison and Iwobi came out of the game with some credit. Not much Pickford could do. But it looks grim.

Last day versus Arteta and the club we have the worst record against in our history. Palace beforehand with whatever 11 aren't suspended or injured minus El Ghazi who must be dreadful in training. But we've had some good times, Bill…

Paul Smith
40 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:46:46
Absolutely nothing to do with refereeing. We use that excuse all the time (cognitive dissonance). Not good enough and we gave Eriksen the freedom of County Road.

Doucouré was gash, as was Gomes. Calamitous from Branthwaite as well. He'll still be crying in the changies – poor fucker.

Bernie Quinn
41 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:48:07
I know you are right Kieran. my excuse is that I am disappointed, deluded - and sick!
Denis Richardson
42 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:48:35
I cannot believe we didn't even draw that game. Yes, the first red was a gut punch but that's another game we were leading at halt time and ended up losing, to a side we should be beating.

I still cannot believe how we played that second half. Why did we not make any changes? We were being killed the first 15 mins of the second half but yet no changes – what the fuck was Lampard waiting for?

A point would at least have meant only a point would have been enough against Palace. Now, only a win against Palace will keep us safe. We're now hoping Villa will also do us a favour – at least Burnley are away and Villa will be incentivised to give it a go last home game.

Now, just get a good rest and go again Thursday. Thursday is our cup final as we will 100% not win away to Arsenal.

Rondon may as well pack his bags and fuck off.

Ajay Gopal
43 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:48:49
I watched the game with us 2-1, but then those 2 quick fire headers were devastating. Quite flukey goals if you ask me, but it is what it is.

I don't think Calvert-Lewin will play the next 2 games, he was limping on the last 5 minutes and he might have aggravated his hamstring.

Our winter transfers have had no impact at all – barring Mykolenko. Patterson (ok, got injured), Alli, El Ghazi, Van de Beek – all mere spectators. Whereas Brentford got Eriksen and what an inspired signing he's turned out to be.

Frank shouldn't panic now, stay calm, the Goodison crowd will give their everything on Wednesday. Hope Keane is fit for that game. If Calvert-Lewin is unfit, Gray will start. Let us pray for the best.

Danny Baily
44 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:49:23
Urgh. Liverpool win the FA Cup and we can't avoid defeat against a Brentford side with nothing to play for, when we have everything on the line.

On the plus side, today was Leeds's best chance to pick up maximum points, and they failed to do so. We have another shot midweek.

Bill Gall
45 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:49:35
Well that was another step backwards. The red card can't be denied but we seemed to cope quite well before half-time creating opportunities, and hoping that at half-time Frank could sort it out.

To me, we went more defensive, and that Dele Alli must be one crap player if he can't replace Gomes. If you were going to go more on the defense, why wasn't Allan brought on?

We should have got at least a point but the delay in substitutions allowed Brentford to bring on 2 fresh players and turned the game around.

Why does this club have to make things harder, and all these long kicks reminds me of the Fat Sam style of play. As we say we don't now what goes on at Finch Farm but Gomes must produce something spectacular to play.

Too upset to continue, being an Evertonian is starting to be too hard to watch anymore.

Anthony Murphy
46 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:50:25
That could not have gone any worse. I'm not sure who will play in defence against Palace due to injuries and suspensions.

I feel sick thinking about that Watford game...

Mal van Schaick
47 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:51:30
It is absolutely soul-destroying to see the manager and players prepare for a game, to have the referee undo all our good work.

In the space of a few weeks, we have been denied penalties and now having a Brentford player on the pitch who should not have been in Ajer, and Bech Sørensen should have joined him.

The FA and the Referees Association have conspired to put Everton Football Club in a precarious position. The Board should raise these issues with the FA and not the manager, who would be banned if he spoke out.

Pat Kelly
48 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:57:59
So who will Frank blame this time. The players? The FA? The VAR? The ref?

Running out of scapegoats.

Paul Smith
49 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:58:43
Mal, you have that arse-about-face, mate. It's the board that have conspired to put Everton FC in a perilous position. All clubs get shit decisions – City handball earlier?
Kevin Molloy
50 Posted 15/05/2022 at 18:59:13
The real crime was Watford. They had lost their previous 11 games at home, and had literally been relegated the day before, causing them to sack seven players. For us then to not venture past our half-way line, well that result will stare at us from the history books if/when Leeds beat Brentford.
Oliver Molloy
51 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:01:47
"We need the support on Thursday and we'll go and win the game" says Calvert-Lewin!
Steve Brown
52 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:02:30
That game centred on the penalty that wasn't given where a red card followed and the penalty that was given where a red card didn't follow.

No team can survive 72 minutes in the Premier League with 10 men.

I am also pretty sure that Allan is not properly fit, otherwise he would have played some part in the last two games.

Roger Helm
53 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:02:32
Referees make mistakes all over the shop so we can't blame them for our state. Not beating teams like Watford and Burnley, what do we expect? We have a very poor squad, the worst we have ever had in my lifetime.

So Crystal Palace is our cup final, as we will get nowt at Arsenal. The whole club needs to be together as against Chelsea and all our best players need to show up, twinges and “slight pains” or not, painkilling injections if necessary, and get the 3 points.

David Hallwood
54 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:03:19
Strange that the manager didn't go 4-4-1 for the 2nd half and took Calvert-Lewin off for an extra midfielder.

But the perennial problems killed us. Schoolboy defending of crosses at set pieces. And an inability of all the players to pass to a blue shirt, which – when you're under the cosh – is suicidal.

The minor light at the end of a dark, dark tunnel is that is still in our own hands.

Tony Twist
55 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:08:27
Suck it up, Blues, but it looks like my prediction still has legs with Leeds going above us on the last game of the season, like they did last year. I would expect that to mean us going down.

Shambles of a club, naivety in the extreme resulting in us getting our just deserts. After a good weekend last week, this weekend has been a shocker. Everton, you are a disgrace.

Colin Malone
56 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:09:02
Shite. Fuck off Lampard. The only holding midfielders at the club are Allan and Delph. Why was Allan on the subs bench behind Gomes? Eriksen ran us ragged all game.

Allan is a leader, who we missed. They were battering us, especially down our right, but it took Brentford to score the 3rd before he changed it.

Thanks a lot, Frank. NOT.

Anthony Jones
57 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:09:23
Palace destroyed us in the cup. We need the other teams to drop points.
Barry Jones
58 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:11:20
I agree, Kevin and George, the real opportunity missed was Watford. I took some stick on here for saying that. It was a reserve team, relegated, with a manager that was on the way out and without a care. Frank and the team played for a point in a totally negative performance.

Today, Leicester put 5 past them at Vicarage Road, and Tim Sherwood suggested that they had capitulated. We missed the perfect opportunity to achieve safety. Then Frank tells us that he has belief in this set of players. Well, the way he managed the Watford game totally belies that statement.

Danny Baily
59 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:12:29
It will remain in our hands until the end. But I think we all know everything is riding on Thursday night.

We're where we would have expected to be in terms of points after the Chelsea game. It's just that we picked up the win away at Leicester instead of today.

Having said that, I can't help but feel we're going to end up on the wrong side of all of this.

Steve Brown
60 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:13:12
Tony @55, you sound like you are looking forward to your “prediction” coming true. Fortunately for the rest of us, it won’t.
Brian Wilkinson
61 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:13:33
After just 10 minutes of the second half, every man and his dog could see we were sitting way too deep, sacrifice a forward and get an extra midfielder on, keep them away from our goal.

Instead we went route one with Brentford coming straight back at us.

Some poor decisions went against us yet again, but at the same time, if you invite a team to have wave after wave of attack, you get what you deserve, shot ourselves in the foot today, just hope Brentford show as much fight against Leeds.

Still in our own hands for now.

Chris Leyland
62 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:19:47
Lampard should have changed it at half time and brought Allan on for Calvert-Lewin to try to at least get a grip in midfield. His substitutions always seem to be reactive rather than proactive.

It's still in our own hands but I think that we may well need to hope that Brentford don't lose at home to Leeds as that will save us without us having to get another point which, let's face it, is a realistic prospect.

Kevin Molloy
63 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:19:59
And where the fuck was Keane today? Salah went off yesterday and everyone was 'Wow, he's actually going to have to go off' having not missed a game in a million years.

Here, our doughty centre-backs don't get injured, rather they are 'ill' just before a crucial game, leading us to throw in an absolute rookie.

Tony Twist
64 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:22:01
Steve (60) fingers crossed the prediction is totally wrong but after 53 years of being a blue has taught me that Everton are rarely unpredictable (in a positive way).

Let's hope that is the case on Thursday but do you really trust this team to roll up and get an easy win? Let's hope they do as I think a lot a Evertonains and the team won't be able to take a last game requiring a win at Arsenal.

Mark Andrews
65 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:27:08
What a mess.

● Has Allan run over Frank's cat?
● Does Frank know he's allowed to make subs earlier?
● Why did Frank think Gomes could do the Delph role?
● What goes on inside the head of Rondon?

The Palace Game is enormous now.

Andy Crooks
66 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:27:40
Everton are damaging my health. Surely Frank and the second-raters wearing the shirt today have a duty of care to us! This has been the worst season I have ever watched Everton.

You know the sign in the bookies "When the fun stops, stop." This is torture. The bums who have got every manager sacked really have taken the piss, season after season, of the best supporters in the world.

Anyway, Thursday, we go again… more anguish, superstition, anxiety and a knot tied in the gut. Yeah, it's only a game. I know.

Trevor Tannenbaum
67 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:30:08
Look, if we'd kept 11 on the field, we would have strolled this. All over them, crowd was up for it (so I think Leeds can win). We just don't get a break with decisions and that's what worries me.

We have enough in our locker to get a win on Thursday. We need Keane fit and I think also Calvert-Lewin as it was working before sending off.

One more big one. COYB

Des Farren
68 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:30:53
No point bemoaning Watford result – or indeed today's. The only one that matters now is Palace and we simply have to get the win we need. But, hey, Dominic seems happy with getting on scoresheet...
Rob Dolby
69 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:36:51
Refs again at the centre of the attention.

I can't argue with Branthwaite seeing red.

I can't argue with Rondons straight red.

I can argue with a clearly pulled shirt in the box not being given or the guy on a yellow fouling for our penalty not being given a 2nd yellow and then surprisingly getting subbed at half-time.

Hopefully that's the last we see of Rondon in a blue shirt, what a total waste of time and money.

Brentford aren't a good team, they have a quality player pulling the strings in centre-mid, that's about it. We have shot ourselves in the foot again.

Palace on Thursday is our biggest game since Wimbledon. Let's hope we have 11 men on the pitch at the start and end.

Brian Denton
70 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:37:21
Just back from that shitshow. Not hanging around here, I'm afraid.

G'night all.

Andrew Bentley
71 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:37:46
There's a lot of folks bemoaning the line-ups today but, let's be honest, one stupid moment from Branthwaite and the game was lost.

We were never going to survive 70-odd minutes being down to 10 men. Up until that moment, we had been all over Brentford and could/should have been 3 up. We'd had 6 shots in the first 10 minutes.

Keane gets ill the night before the game so Jared plays and then gets sent off. We don't have any luck at all….

Just worried about what sort of team we can put out against Palace to actually give us a chance of survival.

Barry Jones
72 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:39:18
I agree Des that we have to look forward, but they are two very tough games. Palace has an abundance of pace and skill and, in my opinion, is a more dangerous opponent than Brentford. Then Arsenal away.

We should not have to rely on Leeds and Burnley but it's looking like we may have to, as points will not come easy.

Dave Lynch
73 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:41:56
I'm speechless...
Paul Hewitt
74 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:43:31
I'm telling you, this game is totally corrupt. How we didn't get a penalty for that Brentford player trying to take Richarlison's shirt off is a mystery.
Michael Lynch
75 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:47:16
Gutted for Branthwaite, that will be a hard one for him to come back from.

So painful to watch that game though after the red. It all started so well; the crowd was incredible and we were looking like getting an emphatic victory, similar to the cup game.

Can't take much more of this, my nerves are shot.

David Pearl
76 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:47:24
Gomes did not have a bad game at all, no matter who you want to point the finger at. Before the sending off, we were by far the more dangerous team. Going down to 10 men, however, we sat too deep and became increasingly nervous.

I'm not sure Calvert-Lewin will be fit for the next game but he did look a bit like his old self. That leap is back.

We need some class in our midfield and l want to see Dele Alli come in. Other than that, l hope we have one of our central defenders back. Delph too. I thought we were unlucky today.

Not so sure Leeds have the quality to win away but a win means it's out of their hands. Rafa out.

Ian Edwards
77 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:51:59
We may get a draw at home to Palace which takes it to the last day. We'll get nothing at Arsenal. Burnley will beat Newcastle. Our Premier League future rests on Brentford not losing to Leeds.
Denis Richardson
78 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:53:36
I still cannot believe we lost that game. As the Leeds result came in I was thinking to myself, we just need 2 points from 3 games and the next two are at home, even a draw today and same against Palace would be enough.

And then we lose. So typically Everton, it's untrue. It's almost as if it's scripted by Sky to keep the suspense going to the end, like Arsenal losing 3-0 to Spurs and City failing to win today (of course Liverpool will win on Tuesday).

With their goal difference, Leeds's only chance to go above us is to win their last game, so a draw against Palace for us is of little use being only 1 point ahead of them.

Burnley need a win to go above us too but have two games left. We will 99.9% lose against Arsenal so we either beat Palace or hope that both Burnley and Leeds don't win another game. A draw against Palace is of fuck-all use to us.

Henrik Lyngsie
79 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:53:59
2-1 up me and my son said that they would score from their left side. Having Iwobi and Gordon as defensive pairing with Coleman as right-sided central defender was going to be a disaster. No surprise they exploited that. For me a major tactical error from Lampard not to introduce Kenny as right back at 2-1.
Barry Rathbone
80 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:54:34
Palace and Arsenal will have too much pace, meaning we won't get another point. Leeds will beat Brentford in heroic do-or-die fashion and Burnley will scrape at least 2 points, more likely 3, from the remaining fixtures.

Today was another case of us failing to rise to the challenge, only this time not just failing to progress in a cup or qualify for Europe, as we usually do. Today we were relegated.

Ciarán McGlone
81 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:54:37
This is the most excitement we've had in 30 years.
Ian Edwards
82 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:54:43
As for today's game.. we lost it when we were winning 2-1. Calvert-Lewin wasn't chasing or closing down. Thomas Franck saw that and took off a defender and threw on 2 midfielders.

Lampard stood there scratching his arse.

Sam Hoare
83 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:55:28
I felt so sure at 20 minutes that we were on course to win and make ourselves safe. But the fates had other ideas and the second half was immensely painful.

Absolutely gutting. Though I would have taken this position a few weeks back.

It could be that we already have enough points. Or it could be that we need to beat Palace or Arsenal. No use in trying to predict this crazy, stupid, brilliant game.

I just want it to be done now. Take me back to mid-table mediocrity and end of season fizzle outs!

Craig James
84 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:56:07
Goals and decisions change games and the league table doesn't lie.

That said, again today – when 1-up and looking reasonably comfortable – both the ref and the VAR miss a blatant and obvious foul – not the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd time this season – and why?

You can draw your own conclusion… but incompetence and corruption spring to mind.

How the ref didn't see the shirt tug is beyond belief and how the VAR didn't get involved is just well var a pile of shite imho.

Still we get ahead and the manager does what he doesn't do best and that's making subs.

1 criticism of Lampard which jaw been noted earlier is that he isn't proactive and I agree.

Allan should have come on and not for DCL but for Gomes but he again waits and waits and what happens? We concede 2 goals in quick succession as, like all season, we can not defend.

It's not rocket science but, even with 10 men, you have to stop the crosses and be aware of players around you, one point no doubt Gordon will learn.

One positive is that I do not see Burnley or Leeds picking up more than 1 point from their remaining games.

Onto next season, where we need to clear the decks... again.

Oh what a joy to be an Everton fan – but I wouldn't want it any other way or support any other team.

Coyb

John Keating
85 Posted 15/05/2022 at 19:58:17
Nightmare

The whole game hinged on the Branthwaite sending off.

Although we went in 2-1 it was odds on we'd start dropping deep and they'd run the game.

Forget getting anything at Arsenal, our whole season comes down to beating Palace on Thursday. Hopefully Keane will be back and Allan replaces Gomes.

So many games this season we've let ourselves down, not just Watford. Lack of application, desire and fight, never mind skill.

90+ minutes on Thursday – that's what it's come down to...

Lynn Maher
86 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:04:06
I am not amused!
Mark Ryan
87 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:07:20
On to Thursday then. Hopefully Keane will be fit and Allan able to play.

We clearly needed him today instead of Gomes. Silly mistake leads to Branthwaite getting his red and the game simply dies. Rondon's red was reckless and hopefully that's him gone now, a real old fashioned carthorse of a player.

Eriksen's class shone through. Had we had Allan fit and playing today as well as Keane, we win that game… but it's all ifs, buts and maybes. We lost and now we go again. It's not all over. A win on Thursday is a must.

Peter Mills
88 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:14:17
I had a clear view of the incident where Richarlison had his shirt pulled. It was an obvious penalty. The only way I could have seen it better would have been if I had been standing where Michael Oliver was. Why did the VAR not intervene?

2-0 up with 11 men would have made it a completely different game.

Bill Watson
89 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:16:17
Once again, we're on the wrong end of ludicrous refereeing decisions. Richarlison clearly has his shirt nearly ripped off and the ref plainly saw it so why didn't he give a penalty?

This was so clear and obvious that the VAR should have intervened, He didn't; so why not?

The ball's hoofed clear and Branthwaite ends up being red-carded! You really couldn't make it up.

Lampard should have changed it at that point but didn't and then again he should swapped Gomes for Kenny at half-time but again failed to do so. When he finally took off the totally anonymous Gomes, allowing Iwobi to move further up the pitch, it was too late.

Dave Abrahams
90 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:18:08
Big round of applause for Michael Kenrick for that report today, how you got everything so quick all the mistakes, sending off, goals, bookings, all the misplaced passes, poor tackles, aimless kicking down the field, not just by Pickford, the senseless everyone back defending, no changes at half time, then changes too late.

I found it exhausting and very, very frustrating to watch another game in hand go by without any gains, but Michael you must have been more frustrated yet you still managed to picture the game as it rolled on with the inevitable ending becoming more obvious with every passing minute.

We now have to endure another 90 minutes or so on Thursday night with less players in the squad after today's sendings-off and who will be injured in training or coming down with an illness. A lot of us are sick ourselves watching this season and the wretched performances every other week but we will drag ourselves there for the last home game and possibly last chance of saving our season. Come on you Blue boys FFS!!

Once again, Michael, a big thank you for today's report.

Robert Tressell
91 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:22:06
Bill @ 89. Absolutely, the headline is "VAR controversy robs Blues again"

We were flying at 1 nil and would have demolished Brentford if the penalty had been given.

That said, quite why Gomes was on the pitch, I have no idea. It is no coincidence that results have improved without him. I never want to see him in an Everton shirt again.

Mark Ryan
92 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:24:35
Tomorrow on Ref watch on Sky's morning Football Show he will say of Branthwaite, "Yes, last man had to go."

Then he will be asked about the shirt pulling on Richarlison and he'll say "I've seen 'em given."

That's what annoys, the inconsistent amateur refereeing displays. The VAR all day long should have instructed Oliver that he'd made an error. A stonewall penalty.

Aarrgghhh... on to Thursday.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
93 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:33:45
The really sad thing is that, if Leeds do not win at Brentford, we are safe. Burnley have to draw both or win one, otherwise we are safe.

The sadness is that we are relying on other teams being worse rather than us being better than them.

Are we sponsored by Broad Green Hospital Cardiac Unit? Perhaps the new shirt sponsors are a pharma company making blood pressure tablets or anti-depressants?

Gary Jones
94 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:42:18
Just got home, and I still feel physically sick. That shocking display, by the utterly and clearly corrupt Oliver, could cost us hundreds of millions. Yes, we have ourselves to blame for the Watford and Burnley matches, BUT the simple fact is that THIS referee has now cost us 4 points at home.

No matter what the fine or punishment, this club must make it clear we will NOT allow him to ref again against us. Walk off the pitch and forfeit the 3 points by 3-0 if we have to, but make a stand ffs Everton. Enough is enough.

I really wish I didn’t love this club like I do, because other than this club I have no love for football left. It’s not sport when the officials continuously make it unsporting. It’s all for the last day drama and TV revenue. They desperately want it at both ends.

Really do fear a Leeds barn stormer at Brentford, and seeing Burnley today they looked good for at least 3 (maybe 4) points out their last two. Goal difference means we need a DRAW on Thursday, and if we don’t get that I fear that this time next week, our goose is cooked.

If that turns out to be the case, next season will be my last. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years of my 45 years of life, and a match goer for all but the first 5. I’ve passed on the love (and sometimes curse) of the club to my kids, and was proud of both singing and choking in the blue smoke today……but enough is enough. FFP protests the elite, and the officials want showbiz not sport.

Life is too short to be this angry, and this frustrated for 40 weeks of the year. So, so, disappointing.

Peter Carpenter
95 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:45:03
A lot of things went against us today. They will swing back our way on Thursday. Don't worry.
Michael Kenrick
96 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:50:46
Thanks for the shout-out, Dave, that was good of you.

Normally, the pace of the game, at least the first half, is such that it's pretty easy to keep track. But this one was so hectic, I fell well behind in the first 5 minutes. It didn't help that I was battling my mouse, which was having a kind of dyslexic fit where it freezes or disappears off the screen and refuses to get back on.

Whenever we score early, I go back to that lad Saha and his fastest ever cup-final goal. And that man Moyes, who I blame for losing us that game... along with many others. He jinxed us good and proper. And now I'm damaged goods. I never feel confident when we score early.

Now we have Frank and his refusal to sub early. So he always, always, always subs late. That's my pet peeve at the moment... plus all the other hopeless things you listed. We are just so fucking poor, it makes you wanna weep. And yet we go again on Thursday.

Kevin Molloy
97 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:51:14
The VAR team reviewed this, and decided that there was nothing to see here:

https://twitter.com/MattJFootball/status/1525898795082448896?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Andy Walker
98 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:51:28
Hard work done, we get to the great position where just 2 or 3 points from the 6 on offer from games against mighty Watford and Brentford are all we need, and we get only 1. We really deserve what we get.
Will Mabon
99 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:55:07
Peter, the cold truth is that none of us have any way of knowing anything of it. Therefore your positive view is exactly as valid as the most pessimistic. You however probably enjoy much more peace until Thursday - with the possible downside of the bigger crash should the worst happen, compared to the less positive, reconciled in their doom.

I no longer even know where I sit. "Funny" old game.

Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 15/05/2022 at 20:56:04
Very poor from Lampard today imo, because I just felt we had to keep playing on the front foot, for two simple reasons. Firstly because we had such a patched up defence and secondly because we had such a fantastic crowd, willing us to run and fight for everything.

Michael Oliver makes me sick, and nobody could ever convince me that he’s 100% genuine, and is also the same consistent referee, right across the board, for every team.

It’s gone, we move forward to Thursday night now, and in amongst all the doom, we have just got to keep believing, and thinking about how well we started today’s game, which is the first positive thing I’ve thought, (it’s just come to me whilst I was writing this!) since I left Goodison today.

Ian Riley
101 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:01:23
I had a feeling last week today might happen. Against Watford we had no drive to win. Today Brentford had a free run. Ifs and buts, VAR and red cards. Today told me Frank and his team must leave a week tomorrow. Whatever division we are in.

At half time we led, yes 10 men but a lead. Instruction not to lose, press from the front. Not go deep. It played into their hands. I believe we have one more chance against Palace. Our cup final but at home. We must win. Forget about other fixtures and might be, may be. Its in our hands. We must win. This game is win or bust for me.

How low have we come to rely on Burnley or Leeds to lose! Either way take anything to stay up! For the players. Get the job done Thursday! No one wants a Sunday to forget!

Someone said best excitement for 30 years! Let's hope a week tomorrow the Premier League crest is still attached to the ground and not replaced by a Championship one! I don't like this sort of excitement!!!!

Will Mabon
102 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:03:38
Kevin, that angle looks way worse. I didn't think it was so clear cut as some did during the game. That looks more a penalty. However, perhaps the fact that Richarlison was still able to play the ball figured into it, along with staying on his feet?

I love Richarlison. I've always tolerated his falling and feigning against what we get in return. It's now got to a stage where every fan of other clubs are calling him out in online comments. He's regularly being called a cheat and hated upon. He goes too far and I think it goes against him with the officials.

Rick Tarleton
103 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:04:14
I'm out of the UK at the moment, but Lampard's tactical stupidity terrifies me. He's got them showing spirit, perhaps too much fight, but when you're 2-1 up at half-time, you regroup. A defensive midfielder for Gomes, and a fifth defender for Calvert-Lewin and you play it tight.

The Ossie Ardilles/ Kevin Keegan approach is heroic, but moronic.

Peter Dodds
104 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:07:29
I'm afraid questions need to be asked of Frank again. As soon as we went down to 10 men, it was clear we had the wrong personnel on the pitch. Gomes struggles in a 2-man midfield when he has 10 colleagues alongside him, never mind 9.

We also needed a specialist right-back from this point on. In my view, we should have changed to a 4-4-1, with Kenny on at right-back, Iwobi pushed up to the right wing (Gordon off) and Allan on in place of Gomes. Two tight banks of four with Calvert-Lewin being the “out” ball.

I'm pretty sure Kenny would have made a better fist of defending their second goal than Gordon did when he lost his man.

And then Eriksen deliberately dropped deep so he could pull the strings all over the place. Somebody tasked with man-marking him around the pitch would have cut off most of their supply. Frank didn't seem to have an answer.

I really hope we don't rue the Watford result – another example of a poor set-up and not having the guts (as well as guile) to go for it.

Frank's made a great connection with fans and he could yet become a top manager for us but he's very much learning on the job.

Brent Stephens
105 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:08:00
Just got in and just seen the shirt pull on Richarlison. I'm lost for words. Ref close and looking directly at it. Disgusting.
Kieran Kinsella
106 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:12:17
The hyperbole on here perversely cracked me up. Imagine Barry Rathbone leading the Grand National and making an awkward landing still in first place them dismounting and announcing he’s lost the race cause obviously he will hit the next two fences and someone will go past him.

We are in a bad spot but as of now we are not in the bottom three and we won’t be until at least Sunday so instead of writing eulogies can we wait to see if the corpse goes cold?

Kevin Molloy
107 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:13:09
Brent,

There is no point in the VAR. It now serves no purpose whatsoever. If they can bat decisions like this away, then there is no point having it.

Will, I'm not even bothered about the ref. Its the VAR looking at it and declaring 'nothing to see here'. It's incomprehensible.

Justin Doone
108 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:18:21
Was the referee and the VAR not switched on in 'that' moment?

Some good battling performances but not enough today. Basic, idiotic red cards.

I now believe it's a final 36 points for us so it's upto Burnley to equal (better goal difference) and Leeds to win their last game to leapfrog us.

I resigned myself to relegation a few months ago and I can only repeat that I hope I'm wrong.

Either way, Frank can go or he can stay, either way 10 games next season to prove he can turn us around or not in whatever division we are in.

Will Mabon
109 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:23:28
I agree, Kevin. They're all "Referees" of a sort though.

The VAR was supposed to be the definitive arbiter for accuracy and correctness. It's now just another controllable variable.

Shane Corcoran
110 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:23:34
It's hard not to feel deflated after that. A huge amount of energy wasted and two suspensions along with it. From the look of Calvert-Lewin, I wouldn't be surprised if he was out again.

But, regardless of how we do, Leeds have to beat Brentford away to leapfrog us.

After reading about the racist abuse directed at two of their players today, I'm hoping they're sufficiently motivated on Sunday.

For us, it's all about Thursday. Keane will have to play regardless of how he is. Allan also needs to start. One last big push on Thursday with cool heads and no fucking red cards.

Peter Carpenter
111 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:23:50
Will, I've been reconciled to doom at various points too this season.

The first time was before Christmas when it was clear that, if we got into a relegation fight, we lacked the spirit to get out if it. Too many clubs around us would just know how to fight and we wouldn't.

The last time was when we went 5 points adrift a couple of weeks ago. I didn't think we would get much from Chelsea and Leicester but we did, I was banking all on Watford and Brentford but we got only a point.

This has felt like we are fated to go down with an (almost) perfect storm of negatives from Rafa, money wasted on sub-standard players, years of mismanagement, injuries, bizarre refereeing – including the VAR, and more.

It's the crowd that has breathed life into this near-corpse of a team and dragged them close to safety. That and recent pragmatic coaching has defied what seemed inevitable.

We can go one more time, crowd and team, on Thursday and we'll do it. But for about 5 seconds of play, the pull on Richarlison to Branthwaite's red card, we were on course to win comfortably today.

Keep the faith. In spite of everything it is, hard to believe maybe, still in our hands.

Paul Birmingham
112 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:26:17
Everton still have advantage, but I hope that Allan starts rather than Gomes, and hopefully Keane is back, for Palace.

Credit to Brentford for doing a professional job, but Everton served them goals gift wrapped today.

Massive game against a very tough team but it is winnable.

I’m not gonna rant on the referee, and VAR, been doing it al season, so I’m channeling my energy into Thursday and will be praying in the mean time for an Everton victory.

Hopefully we will all be celebrating this time next Sunday. Gonna be a tense week, but hopefully Everton, can beat Palace.

UTFT!

Si Cooper
113 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:27:21
We don't know the ins and outs for why Allan didn't start so it's just speculation if you blame the manager.

As others have said, we were doing fine until the first sending off. Simply a young defender's mistake, getting caught up in the attacking play, and a good solid pro took full advantage. As long as he learns and doesn't repeat, it's part of the learning curve.

I hate that last man rule because it doesn't discriminate between deliberate and cynical and naive and clumsy so isn't true ‘justice', but it was a clear sending off by the current rule.

Not sure if Richarlison tussling with the defender who's yanking his shirt gives them the opportunity of saying it's 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other, so not surprised the VAR didn't say the ref has made a clear and obvious error.

I thought all the defenders had a tough time today and I always had an inkling this would be a game that could swing on a basic error as Brentford are capable opposition and the pressure would be upped by any ‘positive' result from Leeds. Another young player losing concentration led to their winner.

The Palace game will be a true test even if Keane is well. Hopefully Leeds or Burnley will fail to get enough to overhaul us in their remaining fixtures and save us having to save ourselves.

Mike Price
114 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:34:00
Massively unimpressed with Lampard today. At 2-1 we sat back like we had 8 men and just asked for it. Calvert-Lewin had to come off for a midfielder and that's not hindsight.

Brentford weren't really that bothered and we gifted it to them. The last two games would have seen us safe with better selections and tactics.

Michael Connelly
115 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:37:16
Couple of points having read the above.

Lampard getting a lot of stick but playing 4-4-1 was the right decision after the sending off. Richarlison was playing out wide, not up front. Arguably Allan for Gomes should have happened after the sending off, but Gomes wasn't too bad today. Kenny for Gomes either as well possibly with Iwobi in midfield.

At least Eriksen is up against Leeds on Sunday. We need him to do the same to them as he did to us today.

Will Mabon
116 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:38:45
It's crazy, Peter. I said one time, if some force/forces set out deliberately to relegate a team while also harming and risking its standing as a club off the pitch, it would look scarily similar to this. All elements have been included, there hasn't been one aspect left immune from the shit show.

That we have an incredible, enviable stadium in build, and some of the best support you will ever see through it all, is almost an added irony of contradiction.

As for the game today - you wouldn't get that story published beforehand.

Roll on Thursday!

Roger Helm
117 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:39:01
When you think of the resources this club has in terms of money, fanbase support, history and everything else, that we were top half/ best of the rest just a few years ago, and one of the Big Five not much further back than that, it is enough to make you weep to see what a pig’s ear the Board have made of their inheritance.

The managers since the early Moyes years (too early to say with Lampard), the Academy which produces nowt, the catastrophic player recruitment, the backroom and conditioning staff, the mentally and physically weak players ( a few honourable exceptions, we know who they are) who are forever crying off with “slight pains” and twinges (I don’t know what Keane’s “illness” was but I would be surprised if it was anything serious - I may be wrong but I shouldn’t even have to suspect it), and have downed tools for previous managers, have all done their bit.

Other “smaller” clubs like Wolves, Palace and Brentford show how to do it. I honestly don’t believe that we deserve to be in the same division as them at the moment, so if we are relegated, and I hope we aren’t, it is no more than the club deserves. Hard on us fans to be sure, who aren’t millionaire here today gone tomorrow professionals (although they don’t deserve that epithet) but there we are. Life isn’t always a bed of roses.

Ed Prytherch
118 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:40:50
I agree with Kevin 107. The VAR is not worth having when it cannot overturn such an obvious error. It is just another opportunity for the officials to fuck up.
Peter Carpenter
119 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:45:38
Michael, Dele Alli's main contribution today was a long conversation with Eriksen after all the other players had left the pitch. It went on for some time and hopefully included asking for that favour, should we need it.
Peter Carpenter
120 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:48:54
What a staggeringly stupid signing Dele Alli was.
John McFarlane Snr
121 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:51:03
Hi Kieran, [106]

I'm not long home from the game and although it's true, in hindsight, that Everton could have made changes in the second half, I believe that we supporters are what can be described as "Wannabe Managers" who never make a mistake, and if by chance we do, we will never be brought to task.

It's not over until we are 4 points adrift with one game to play, and it's preferable that we achieve our safety by winning the fixture against Crystal Palace. It's quite possible, however, that we can be watching Premier League games next season without adding a point to our total, if Leeds United (with one game to play) and Burnley (with two games to play) do likewise.

I must add that I thought the crowd were superb again for the main part, but I still can't understand those who left early, in their droves, when that was the time the team needed all the support they could get. I've always been of the opinion: "If you can't lose, don't play, or if you can't see your team lose, don't go."

Tony Abrahams
122 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:55:54
I never really feel sorry for many footballers, but I’ve felt a bit sorry for Seamus Coleman recently, because although he’s our longest serving and most experienced player, I just feel that the last couple of weeks have got to him, and possibly because he genuinely loves Everton FC.

I also think Iwobi has got to be part of a three man midfield imo on Thursday, simply because he’s currently our most energetic player.

I was crying out for Kenny to come on for Gomes, which would have helped us get Iwobi’s energy into midfield, whilst we were in front, and was very disappointed that Lampard took so long to make this change, but Frank is learning on the job, and his relationship with Evertonians is also going to be crucial in the future, hopefully, along with both Moshiri and Kenwright, who I’m praying haven’t got long left🤞

Will Mabon
123 Posted 15/05/2022 at 21:57:39
Mike P,

I agree that we asked for it. What hasn't been said so much is that we actually retook the lead for 2-1 from the penalty, following attacking play after we went down to 10 men.

Specific player changes aside, I thought we were too negative and reluctant to get forward but also light in the middle. Dropping back and letting teams have the midfield is asking for it when the box is then under bombardment - right when you are short of a central defender (and the tallest player we had).

Paul Birmingham
124 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:02:47
Just catching up and seen City’s pen at West Ham.

I wonder if they had a change of shift at Stockley Park, or we’re having a break for Everton’s game..

Focus on Thursday night and praying in between.

Need a Chelsea 2 weeks ago, tempo and drive, and clinical finishing.

“Whats Our Name?”

Alan McGuffog
125 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:03:08
Given that Pickford and Richarlison will be on their way when we drop I hope that none of the rest of them ever don the shirt again.
With this crowd of shirkers and bottlers we'll be lucky to consolidate in Championship.
I say WHEN we drop as we don't have a snowball in hells chance of picking up points against Palace and Arsenal and Leeds will win at Brentford
Mike Price
126 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:04:39
I can’t wait to see the back of DCL. Down to 10 men and he jogs about up front, no pace, no aggression and no setting a tone. Then telling Michael it’s ‘my goal’, just sums him up. All about him perfecting his ‘craft’, he’s not a team player and there’s no chemistry between him and our only proper player, Richarlison.
Will Mabon
127 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:06:22
Alan, I'm fairly certain DCL is gone either way. Richy and Pickford, not so sure if we stay up.
Bernie Quinn
128 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:08:52
Kieran K - Despite agreeing with you, I still say Mike Oliver is a poor referee who dislikes us judging from previous games he's officiated in - look who was on VAR !! There is a saying that you can have a team of good players - or - a good team of players. Sadly Frank didn't inherit either one. We can't know what is happening at FF so its wrong to keep blaming Frank. Lets stay positive and hope for 3 points on Thursday.
Kieran Kinsella
129 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:09:39
John

My newly acquired glasses must be rose tinted because I just had another thought. If you’re going to be in a relegation battle you might as well let it go to the wire. Think of that Wimbledon game in 1994. People remember it like a cup final. Less well remembered are the moments when we were mathematically safe various times under Walter Smith. For the first time since Martinez we end the season with a tangible prize on the line. Now obviously there is a huge potential downside to this Pollyanna perspective but I won’t miss watching the dead rubbers we usually endure this time of year. And while I profess no soothsayer skills I’m convinced we will survive. If we don’t I’ll endure the misery when it comes but I’m not going to sour my mood now by assuming something has already occurred that may never happen. Up the Toffees

Jack Convery
130 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:20:18
When the RS played Watford in April, Var gave a penalty to them for Jota being wrestled at a corner by a Watford defender. The ref gave nothing. VAR spotted it and told the ref who then gave the pen.

Roy Hodgson said at the time - the ref didn't see it, I didn't see and neither did Jurgen. Their were no appeals from any RS player. Yet VAR saw it and told the ref about it. The RS scored and went 2 nil up.

Can someone please tell me the difference as to why VAR saw something and told the ref about it and what happened to Richy and his shirt today ?? Its fn corruption. Sky and the EPL want a last day shootout at the top and bottom. This keeps the TV audience interested and the advertisers paying for TV adverts. As far as they are all concerned its a win win. Unless of course you are match going supporters paying to watch a product that once upon a time was truth and nothing but the truth. Not any more I'm afraid. EFC are a big fish and us being in danger of going down is BIG NEWS, unfortunatley.

John McFarlane Snr
131 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:22:12
Hi again Kieran [129] not many people will enjoy losing but we have to remember that for 'every winner there's a loser'. As you indicate, what's the point of torturing yourself worrying about something that may never happen.
John Hood
132 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:26:28
Brentford fan here:
Can I try to relieve some of the doom and gloom?
I genuinely think you are safe.The people at Brentford are a fairly relaxed lot and don't go in for tribalism but if there is one team everyone at the club dislikes, it is Leeds.Too many unpleasant encounters with their deluded and obnoxious fans and the general arrogance of the whole set-up there.While nothing is guaranteed in football,I can assure you that nothing would give more pleasure than sending Leeds down.So the players will definitely be up for it next Sunday.
What fantastic support you gave Everton today.
see you next season.
Paul Birmingham
133 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:28:24
It’s up to Everton, and let’s see, come Thursday and Goodison, will be a Blue volcano.

UTFT!

Ian Jones
134 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:31:53
It would have been interested to see what might have happened had VAR decided to look at the Richarlison event after Branthwaite gets sent off. Presumably if VAR subsequently decides it's a pen, our man doesn't go.
In this case, VAR would have bottled it and put the onus on ref who would have been invited to go pitch side, review.
And then go, no, my decision stands, red card it is...
Kieran Kinsella
135 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:34:36
John McFarlane

One more positive. No matter what happens it can’t be as bad as last time losing 6-0 at home to an already relegated Sheff Wed

Bernie

I’m not a fan of any of the refs to be honest. But I think we inevitably look at things from our own narrow perspective. A few months everyone was saying Atwell was prejudiced against us. But I did a quick Google search for “Atwell bias” and found Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool all claim he is prejudiced against them and had more examples to back it up than us. I would wager if we scoured the fan sites of Leeds and Burnley you’d find plenty of examples of apparent ref injustice on those pages. In fact in Leeds case you don’t even have to delve far. Just think back to winter when they only had 7 fit players and were forced to play on whole others like Leicester got postponements based on a combination of a few Covid cases and injuries. Yes the refs are flawed people limited by eyesight, athleticism and inherent bias but unfortunately it will always be that way until we get the robot refs up to speed. Terminator wouldn’t be intimidated at Anfield or anywhere else.

Derek Knox
136 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:36:02
John @ 132, Thanks for your input as an opposing team's fan, it is always encouraging, to me at least, to see or hear another sides perspective on the game. We all tend to be biased towards our own, but I genuinely think and believe that the extremely poor standard of refereeing, is both ruining games and results, for those who need it most. Whereas the Teams at the top seem to be afforded special privileges and 'blind eyes to blatant fouls and penalties' committed by them !

Oh, and although I didn't go today, I watched intently on TV, I don't believe how Calvert Lewin can lay claim to Richie's goal !

Tony Everan
137 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:36:21
John wishing Brentford good luck for next week, and yes obnoxious is a good adjective for the Leeds fans. Probably not all of them are but I’ve seen some disgusting behaviour towards innocent members of the public in the past from some braindead louts and I’ll never forget it. Kick them out of the PL.
Paul Smith
138 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:36:23
Jack@130 that makes no sense. Why jettison a so called ‘big fish’ to the Championship along with its massive subscription paying fan base ? Not a great business model is it.

VAR needs sorting out and there is bias (human nature) but not to the extent of a systematic vendetta to relegate Everton.

Kieran Kinsella
139 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:39:02
John Hood

Thanks for dropping by. What a season your team have had. My late great great (as in he was good and he was great in terms of telationship) was a Brentford fan. Ironically he gave me his Pele autograph that he got at Goodison Park.

Anyway, I’ve no doubt the raucous Brentford fans will be up for it and I can’t seem Thomas Frank allowing them a day on the beach. Go Bees

Ian Edwards
140 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:39:07
Our fans should cut out the childish fireworks outside team hotels. It just gives an incentive to the opposing team. Stop being dickheads.
Ian Edwards
141 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:41:57
Ian Jones 134. VAR looked at it as they look at everything. They decided the tug on Richarlison didnt meet the bullshit clear and obvious threshold. Jags said on TV it was outside the box. If it was then VAR wouldnt get involved for a free kick.
Michael Lynch
142 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:44:19
John @132 thanks, your fans were a credit to the club today. I spoke to a few afterwards and they were top lads. Hope we see you again next season, especially if you can beat Leeds. Their fans were the opposite of Brentford fans, trying to pick fights with everyone including the police horses.
Neil Copeland
143 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:44:33
John #132, cheers mate.

By the time young Jarrad was sent off we could and maybe should have been at least 2 if not 3 up. We were playing some good stuff and well on top. The decision not to review the pull on Richie ultimately ended up costing us the game. I don’t think we had our tactics right in the second half either. We looked much better on the front foot,

As disappointing as it is there are still positives to be had with the main one being that the other results mean it is still very much in our own hands and a home win against Palace will guarantee it.

I hope Frank learns from today and doesn’t start Gomes. If Keane has recovered from his illness he and Allan in for Jarrad B and Gomes. Otherwise keep it the same and if the players keep their heads we can win.

UTFT

Jerome Shields
144 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:46:36
Injuries seemed to have had a part to play in this game.

Gomes selected on the strength of his previous Brentford performance.But this time Erikson was in midfield.Erikson was always going to be the danger, but was not identified as a sufficient threat for special attention.With Keane, Mina and Godfrey out the inclusion of Braithwaite was realised,but his dismissal, the rest of continuous sloppy play, gave us a makeshift defence.

Frank thought this makeshift arrangement would carry Everton through most of the second half failing to respond Brentford changing from a 433 to a 452, using the extra man to add to a walk through midfield.Franks subs have always been too late and didn't include a defending midfielder, though he had Allan on the bench.

Rondon the savour proved a total flop, but Frank persisted with open attacking football.So the game was won and lost in Midfield as I predicted.Erikson was ignored as a threat.

I have tried to workout the permutations of Everton's position but can only conclude it will become clear at full time on the last match of the season dependent on fellow relegation dogfigjters making a cock up.

The inevitable has now happened. Years of mismanagement has this once great Club on it's knees hoping for results out of their control.

I won't be putting any bets on Everton winning their last two away matches.

Paul Birmingham
145 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:54:34
John Hood thanks for your gracious feedback and support for the Everton cause.

Hopefully Brentford can do the business next Sunday, and congratulations on a very good season for Brentford.

Some fine old pubs in Chiswick, I know from working there,in the past, and hopefully next week, your having a great end of season party and Everton, will be too.


Thank you.


Mike Doyle
146 Posted 15/05/2022 at 22:56:40
John Hood.

Congratulations to Brentford on a great season. I live in Teddington, so have quite a few Bees fans as neighbours.
Brentford are a great example of how to run a club properly and the signing of Erickson was inspired. In contrast we went for Donny van de always Injured and Dele Alli - speaks volumes I think. Easily the class player on the field today - a delight to watch and I hope he stays with you next season.

Colin Malone
147 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:00:01
On my way home from the Rose and Crown in Cheapside.

Fuck Off, Lampard.

Ernie Baywood
148 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:03:28
It's a clear shirt pull on Richarlison. Penalty, yellow card and the ensuing play is written off. There you go, easy game to referee.

The reality is that it's another one where the ref leaves it to VAR, and VAR has to assume he's judged the decision and reached his own conclusions and therefore doesn't deem it a clear and obvious error.

The fact that Oliver clearly has a good view goes against us. If he was unsighted the VAR might have asked him to look at the screen - as he couldn't see what had happened. But he clearly saw it and didn't act - to send him to the screen would be to say "you saw that and didn't act". That's pretty damning of the referee.

And that's why VAR is crap. It doesn't improve decisions - it protects officials. VAR could get 99% of decisions correct but it would mean effectively criticising refs' errors, incompetence and bias. So they don't, they confirm bad decisions unless they've got an excuse to get it right.

I'm adamant that referee decision making is worse with VAR. And VAR isn't implemented to correct decision making. It's brought about a whole new element of poor officiating.

Graeme Beresford
149 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:06:15
Surly something has to be said again about the shambolic referring. Braithwaite’s red should of been chalked off and Everton should of been awarded a penalty. This is just not right, it’s al the time against us. It’s got to the point now where I actually think in decades it will come out as a season they tried to get rid of Everton.

I swear an independent body should walk in to the FA tomorrow and take every ref’s phone and check what’s being said because it can’t now be a coincidence. It just can’t be. There have been about 10-15 really bad decisions this season. It could be the difference between us staying up and going down. It’s a fix, nobody will convince me otherwise now, there’s just been too many.

Mark Dunford
150 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:06:44
Oh, Everton. I guess little can be added to what has already been written. Benitez more or less destroyed a fragile squad and Lampard has had to work to rebuild from rock bottom. Imploded today - like the cup tie at, err, Palace. No doubt this has been the worst season. And, I should say I was there for that Wimbledon game.
Christy Ring
151 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:12:00
The game completely changed with the sending off, we were 1-up and on top, but to have Branthwaite sent off after 18 minutes, and how Richarlison didn't get a penalty in the same incident, was the turning point, abysmal.
Phil Lewis
153 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:24:32
Delph was sorely missed today. His recent contribution has been one of the main reasons we secured vital points. The most overrated player on the books is Doucoure. His positional sense is appalling, his tackling and distribution is poor and he totally lacks vision. Had Allan played in his place from the start it could have been a very different outcome.
Gomes started well but was exposed when we went down to 10 men. DCL looks a shadow of his pre injury self. Perhaps his head is elsewhere? I'd have played Gray before Gordon, whose inexperience has been magnified recently. Contrary to popular belief, I think he is far from the finished article. His lack of concentration cost us their winner today. I felt sorry for Branthwaite it was an awkward tussle, he was unlucky.
It's all down to Thursday.
Colin Malone
154 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:25:13
Stop talking about decisions not gone our way. We are shit. Again, only for Pickford, we are down.

Frank is fucking clueless. Please someone challenge me why he is not.

Steve Dickinson
155 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:27:53
John Hood. Thanks for that. Well done today. After a long journey, I’ll go to bed feeling slightly more optimistic.
John Raftery
156 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:40:41
Eriksen ran the whole show, often receiving the ball with nobody in a blue shirt within 10 yards of him. I fear Allan is not fit enough to play a full match.

Otherwise, there was no logical reason for leaving him on the bench today. If he is unable to start on Thursday,I fear the worst.

Jack Convery
157 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:42:55
Paul - 138 - They want the who goes down to go to the last game. That was the point I'm trying to make. If its just Burnley and Leeds its not so dramatic. Better 3 games involved not just 2.

MOTD2 - Whitewashes Olivers performance- Que Surprise !!!

On another point - whatever happens against Palace, the fans must stay behind and chant Sack The Board until BK comes out and announces he's going and taking the rest of them with him.

Bill Watson
158 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:49:22
Jerome #144

The next match is at home to Crystal Palace, on Thursday. We only have one more away.

If we beat Palace we stay up; simple as that. If we don't it goes to the wire and I wouldn't put any money on us getting anything at Arsenal. It's our worst away game in the Premiership era.


Soren Moyer
159 Posted 15/05/2022 at 23:54:06
Ffs! Just noticed pretty much every club has won at Watford since January this season but us! Even Leeds and Norwich have both won 3-0 there! And of course Burnley too.
Derek Knox
162 Posted 16/05/2022 at 00:15:04
Jack @157, last paragraph, totally agree, but will anybody do it ?

I remember when they had the 27 campaign in my section I was the only one who stood up with my small white banner ' Kenwright Out ' ! People looked at me with mixed emotions, I presume, ranging from, totally agree, but we have done nothing to support that (wish we had now) to 'sit down you lone protester' !

Also, the man has skin as thick as a Rhino and a Neck that is Brazen. Basically he believes he is Teflon Coated !

Nicolas Piñon
163 Posted 15/05/2022 at 00:15:39
What the hell is VAR made for if that penalty on Richarlison was not given? Impossible playing 70 minutes with 10 men. Football is a corrupt disgrace I’m sick of. These thieves who omit those decisions should all go to prison, and instead they are flying in helicopters and drinking wine in their mansions.
Another apology from the FA at midweek as after the city game with the hand not given penalty from Rodri? That changed this game 100%. If we do go down (and it’ll be because of these pathetic mistakes from the officials) I’ll never watch a premier league game again. Ok, maybe Allan should of played, we could argue something… but that’s not why we lost.
The way they make mistakes turns football into a complete lost cause only in favour of taking money from people. Get my grandma in VAR and it’ll be the same.
I only give credit to supporters and players on the pitch not reacting to that disgrace decision, in Argentina that referre wouldn’t have gotten alive from the stadium. 100%.
Colin Malone
167 Posted 16/05/2022 at 00:27:47
Stop talking about decisions not gone our way. We are shit. Again, only for Pickford, we are down.

Frank is fucking clueless. Please someone challenge me why he is not?

Jack Convery
168 Posted 16/05/2022 at 00:41:43
The scenario that has haunted me these past few weeks is. Arteta sending us down, whilst Slippy put the Prem on a plate for the RS, who then beat Madrid and put the cherry on the cake.

To prevent this happening Brentford will have to beat Leeds as I can't see us getting more than 1 point from our last 2 games.

Prove me wrong EFC and for once put a team to the sword on Thursday and give your long suffering fans the result we all want.

PS: Put Richy in cotton wool as he's our only fit forward left, given DCLs limp at the end of the game today.
PPS: give El Ghazi ago as Gordon is knackered and Gray is out of form.

Jay Harris
169 Posted 16/05/2022 at 00:43:58
Colin perhaps because with 11 men we are re playing attractive football and winning something that has been in short supply for the last couple of years. I suppose its Frank's fault that we went down to ten men or that horrendous refereeing decisions are going against us regularly.
Steve Carse
170 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:10:42
Concentration on reffing decisions in this thread has been on the sending off and the build up to it. All valid and all spot on. What I'm surprised at is the lack of attention given to an even more valid penalty claim in the opening minutes. Take another look at the blatant foul on Richarlison as he was about to head in after the save from Gordon's effort. The Brentford defender comes in and takes him out, no way trying to win the ball, just intent on bowling Richarlison over. 100% a penalty. Richarlison asked for it. But, as is usual from this most Corinthian of sporting sides, the appeals were muted. Why do we always act like gentlemen in these circumstances? The whole side should have surrounded the referee until it was at least looked at by VAR. If it did, VAR would have had no option but to support the penalty appeal.
An old colleague of mine was a top referee in the 80s, and he was always telling me how he hated reffing Everton games, because the likes of Reid, Sharp, Gray, Heath, VdH etc would always be in his ear, even if he'd already fulfilled their shouts for a free kick or whatever. That aggressive approach towards officials undoubtedly paid dividends. It would do so even more now with VAR in operation.
Graham Hammond
171 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:11:10
Michael Oliver was put on the game just for us today and the agendas (hidden of course) continue to dictate the 'decisions' made in our games. Predictable dark forces were at play once more. We need to expect to play against twelve men going forward, none of it is a coincidence, been saying it for years. That said, I was disappointed in Frank today, that Everton team was crying out for more energy from the central midfield area, Alex Iwobi should have been moved there very early doors based on his recent contributions and skill set. I think Tony Abrahams rightly point this out, I am at a loss, that huge black cloud has well and truly returned around me. I want Thursday out of way so I can fu**ing function again!
Kieran Kinsella
172 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:11:12
Chris Woods

That was pathetic. It’s one thing slipping in a few swear words when you’re commenting on the game. Its another just popping into the thread to abuse someone. Bernie is a great poster with some great anecdotes from the old days and by the sound of it a gent. Maybe you could learn a thing or two from him.

Graham Hammond
173 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:18:26
And well spotted and commented on by Steve Carse at 170, it was a foul on Richarlison early doors and we should have been given a further penalty. Dark forces indeed.
Phil Wood
174 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:20:21
Yes totally depressed by events of today.
Started great but turned into a disaster.
Cannot guess how the next 2 games will go.
We may have to rely on Brentford, Villa and Newcastle.
What will be will be.
We have spent a season sleepwalking to oblivion but still wouldn't bet on our next 2 results. Pardon the pun but football is a funny old game. Maybe we will get a result at Arsenal against all odds.
Hopefully we can shock Palace.
I'm sure if Allan was fit he would be a shoe in. The guy is probably pushing his luck being on the bench. Must be carrying an injury and helping as much as he can till the end of the season.
Let's just keep on giving our fantastic support and hope the team can get over the line.
COYB.

Brian Wilkinson
175 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:21:29
The two teams fighting it out in a two horse race, have both benefited by corrupt officials and var not awarding a penalty in both those games.

Since our letter of apology, we then had three players sent off, in the following three games, a further two today, another penalty not given, a penalty then given but no second yellow.

If we get the first penalty then Branthwaite, remains on the pitch, the only one I can agree with, is Rondons Red.

Been saying it for a while on here, since we got a letter of apology, that we would get nothing for the rest of the season, Lampard criticising and rightly so the official, then picking up a fine was the final nail in the coffin lid.

We are the only ones to speak up, and by doing so, they will do their damn best to see the back of us.

The dreaded drop is unthinkable, but at the same time, it will be the same again next season, hopefully we stay up, but what chance has the rest got, against the elite clubs, next season, they have already bowed to the elite, by allowing 5 subs from next season.

I can put up with being shite, I can just about put up with poor performances, that’s our own doing, but when you are getting screwed over, week after week, by corrupt officials, you start questioning whether you will get a fairer crack of the whip, in the Championship, that is how much it is now getting to me, at the same time the Premier league would love to see Everton go down.

That is the incentive that keeps me going, that no matter what they threw at us, no matter how many wrong decisions we have been on the back of, I would love us to stay up, firstly as a fan but more so to stick two fingers back at those that did everything they could, to send us down.

We really need something Thursday, we will certainly not be getting anything away to Arsenal, var and the ref will see to that.

Not one of my more positive posts, but at the same time, the corruption in the game has dragged me right down.

David Currie
176 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:32:08
Two massive chances to stay up and we have failed to get over the line, Watford away and again today at home to Brentford. It is the nightmare that continues and looks likely to go to the last game. Yet again we get an awful decision from the Ref, really can't believe that he did not give the shirt pulling on Richy but earlier when Holgate gave a small pull on shirt they got a free kick. Very frustrating, we now have a 3rd chance to stay up by beating Palace. We have to take it this time but will be a tough game.
David Currie
177 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:42:44
Brian 175,
You are correct on the corruption in the game and there is no doubt that they want us down.
Pete Clarke
179 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:50:16
I know Michael Keane has his obvious weaknesses but he very rarely misses a game when available. Even when we are all piling into him for being shite he still shows up so I won’t be calling him out for feigning injury.
This is the roller coaster to hell and back so the only way I see this going is we will need points at Arsenal to survive.
Hard not to look back in anger at the reasons we are in this mess.
Steve Carse
180 Posted 16/05/2022 at 01:56:57
Brian (175), if there is an active programme designed to see Everton relegated then I suspect it arises from the Premier League's wish to avoid the situation that would almost inevitably arise where the club that finishes 18th takes Everton, and the PL itself, to the courts over FFP rules. It can surely be no coincidence that all the decisions you refer to (to which I would add Allan's dismissal against Newcastle) began after the belated publication of the latest Everton financial accounts. Their release led to extensive media coverage and included Press articles virtually advising clubs to gear up for court action should they find themselves being relegated. Everton say that they discussed their finances in respect of FFP rules with the PL at all stages and they were advised they met requirements. Imagine the seismic eruption should the court scenario actually arise, with the PL firmly in the hot seat. The solution? Make sure Everton are out of the PL for next season.
Bernie Quinn
181 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:02:48
Kieran @ 172 - "Sticks & stones" etc - I've heard it all before - but I do appreciate your comment. I just feel sorry for the Fair Sex and youngsters who might read this garbage and just hope that they reaise that Woods is not a typical Evertonian
Colin Malone
182 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:14:43
Jay #169.

Jay. Only for Pickford, for fuck's sake, we are shite.

Please challenge me. I'm better than Lampard.

Bernie Quinn
183 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:39:44
A lot of worry (mine included) about relegation/ But its not the end of the world. I think, looking back that the season of promotion from Div.2 in 1954, was the most enjoyable I have seen the Blues play. Dave Hickson and John Willie Parker banging the goals in as though there was no tomorrow. And the best game of that season, which I will always clearly remember was in fact a defeat! It was the semi-final against Bolton W. at Maine Road. The first half was terrible and we were trailing 4-0. Don't know what was said in the dressingroom, but the Lads came onto the field for the 2nd half, looking like a different team. Led by Hickson, bleeding from a deep cut in his head which was swarthed in bandages, the Toffees attacked with a fury that left the Bolton players shell[shocked. They were egged on by about 30,000 screaming Evertonians, (I lost my voice for ages afterwards) and the score went from 4-0 to 4-1 - to 4-2 - to 4-3 and had we had a few minutes left, I am convinced it would have been us at Wembley, facing Blackpool, and it would have been 'The Hickson Final' and not 'The Matthews Final' His leadership that day makes me say that Dave was a better striker than Tommy Lawton. So don't despair eeveryone - remember that every cloud has a silver lining...
Si Cooper
185 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:47:03
Steve Carse (170), sorry but I disagree. Not a real penalty shout at all for me, just the defender not giving the attacker an unimpeded opportunity.
For the ‘Oliver brought in to nobble us’ conspiracy theorists, how do you explain the soft penalty he awarded us (read the report if you don’t understand there are a few Evertonians who were grateful that one wasn’t waved away)?
The Richy tussle before the Branthwaite sending off is in the debatable category because it does look like he is gripping / pushing the defender at the same time; easy for VAR to dodge as not a clear and obvious error.
Both sendings off followed the letter of the law, their three goals were sound with only the Everton influence in them being disappointing.
And that is the point. There have been some strange calls but they fall on the shoulders of officials who have also made rubbish calls with other teams. Most of our result deciding moments have been down to individual ineptitude. If the RS are mentality monsters unfortunately we are just the mentality horror show.
Oh, and DCL deflected the ball significantly for the first. Very hard to say it would have gone in the net otherwise so why shouldn’t he claim it?
Dan Murphy
186 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:48:34
Lampard has shown no ability to make changes before or during games to adapt to changing circumstances and keep the team fresh.
Early in the 2nd half Kenny should have been brought on for Gordon who was knackered at having to chase their left back back to our box.
The corner for the 2nd goal came down that side and Gordon didn't track the scorer of the 3rd. Not having a go at AG. He has been a trooper but is looking tired.
Sorry, but Frankie ain't super and isn't going to make it in this management lark.
Ashley Roberts
187 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:59:37
Hopefully we will have Keane back from Illness and Godfrey and van Beek back from injury. Maybe Allan will be fit to play as well. This squad should be good enough to beat Palace with the crowd acing as 12th man. Destiny is still in our own hands. Without the poor officiating I think we would have gotten something out of the game today and the same applies to Thursday. My one request for Frank is please do not start Gomes. If fit van Beek needs to start ahead of him. So Keane to replace Branthwaite and the midfield to be Allan, Iwobi and van Beek with Gray Gordon and Richi up front. Dele and DCL to come on for Gray and Gordon.
Ernie Baywood
188 Posted 16/05/2022 at 03:20:47
Referees aside... it's two massive missed opportunities in the last two games. Albeit on the back of some ridiculously good results prior. Prior to the Chelsea have we were gone... and this just proves how key that win was.

I think we'll be hanging on right until the last seconds of the season... and it will come down to what Burnley and Leeds do in their last games.

We've got to go for the win... but I just can't see us beating Palace. Can we afford to go at them with their pace on the break? Can we really sit back against a team like Palace when we need a win? Even a draw leaves us hoping that Leeds and Burnley don't muster a win each.

I'd like to think we can deal with this ourselves, but I suspect I'll be supporting Brentford, Villa and Newcastle over the next week.

Nicolas Piñon
189 Posted 16/05/2022 at 04:00:05
START:
pickford
iwobi coleman keane holgate/godfrey mykolenko
gordon allan doucoure gray
Richarlison

Subs: gomes davies dele kenny godfrey/holgate calvertlewin vbd begovic and some kid.

I believe thats the team that will play against palace.
although this league has turned into an abosolute joke, the mentality in the last games has been the correct one.

this league is like the casino, it just grabs the money and makes people sick.

Jack Convery
190 Posted 16/05/2022 at 04:51:25
Every team needs a spine. Our best with the present squad is Pickford, Mina, Delph and DCL. The next best is Pickford, Mina, Delph and Richy. Today we had half of it missing. The players who come in to cover Mina and Delph are not up to it - it's that simple. Allan is either not fit or no longer interested as he wants to go back to Italy by all accounts. We know Keane / Holgate are not good enough. Neither Gomes or Doucoure are good enough too. As cover for CF, Rondon has never been good enough and RB brought him in, whilst wearing rose tinted glasses !!

Every team needs players who can score and assist. DCl has been injured. Richy has a few goals as does Gray. However the assists last season were supplied by he who can't be named, James and Digne and we all know who got rid of James and Digne. On all fronts we are a poorer squad than last season.

The only player we have brought in this season that is actually playing well right now is Mykolenko. Grays form has dropped off a cliff, Patterson has never got started and is injured, Deli Ali ? just what was that all about, Donny and El Ghazi ( whats happened to them ), and finally our top scorer Townsend is injured. Begovic is the sub keeper. So we are left with the same players that have let us down season after season and getting worse season after season. Frank has appeared to get some team spirit going but getting an effective and consistent tune out of them is still a tall order. They need us to roar them home.

So we are asking a squad of players that has lost to Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Southampton and Brentford twice. The only team around us that we have taken 4 points off is Leeds - that hopefully will prove the difference between us staying up and them going down. Palace stuffed us by 4 when we played them at their place. It is going to take some turnaround to see us beat them on Thursday but beat them we must. Otherwise we have to rely on Brentford beating Leeds because we aint getting anything at the Emirates.

Danny O’Neill
191 Posted 16/05/2022 at 05:32:07
Wounded. Hurt.

I really don't know what to say. I went through so many emotions from ecstasy to frustration to being totally gutted.

I didn't want to comment on the official but it was a pivotal moment. Shirt pulling as a player was a pet hate of mine. It's against the rules and a foul. A foul in the box is a penalty. I know we got one later on but after that in the next phase of play, they score when we are 1-0 up and could have gone 2-0 up.

To that goal, I know many rate Branthwaite and I think he's got potential, but he looked like Michael Keane. Got the wrong side and was playing catch up. He should have just left that to Pickford. Even if they'd have scored, we'd have kept 11 players on the pitch.

As much as I've praised him, Gordon got ghosted past for their 2nd or 3rd. I can't (don't want to) remember which one. He looks absolutely knackered.

Final comment, I know his hand was turned with the sending off. I know his options are limited given the limitations of this poor squad, but as at Watford, the manager has a tendency to leave his changes too late. Be that tactical or personnel. Brentford had us yesterday. Pinging those diagonals at our fullbacks. We seemingly done nothing to combat it.

I may be being harsh.

Wounded. Hurt. Gutted.

Upset, so give me a pass.

Let's go and win midweek. We do this.

Steve Brown
192 Posted 16/05/2022 at 05:44:09
Danny, great final line to your post.

“Let's go and win midweek. We do this.”

Says it all. Everyone suffered agony yesterday in the second half, but we are in exactly the same position as before the game. No point catastrophising when 30 seconds of play turned the game on its head. UTFT!

Also, I have to say how ashamed I feel about racist abuse aimed at the families of Brentford players. We are better than that.

Lee Courtliff
193 Posted 16/05/2022 at 06:05:05
Yesterday I was convinced we would win. The first ten minutes confirmed that belief but what unfolded was like a microcosm of our entire season!

I feel a bit numb. I'll always believe that we'll win our next game, no matter how poor we've been in the previous match, that's just the way I am, but I'm now very, very nervous about Thursday. We should be safe by now but instead we're preparing for our biggest match in years!

I do think Gordon should start on the bench, his introduction after an hour or so will lift the crowd and hopefully see us over the line. At least DCL looked a bit more interested yesterday, he could give us a farewell present by scoring the winner.

Ian Jones
194 Posted 16/05/2022 at 06:08:59
Si @185. Agree with all of your post.

One more comment to add. It's all a game of ifs and buts with hindsight a wonderful thing.
DCL not getting on the end of the pass across the 6 yard box from I think Richie. If only DCL had just chucked himself as the ball was coming over...

Mick O'Malley
195 Posted 16/05/2022 at 06:13:40
Christy @151 I totally agree, I think some of our fans want a new manager every week, and I have to laugh when fans think there is some sort of conspiracy to relegate us, that’s just tin foil hat nonsense, our players let everyone down yesterday by bottling a home game against an average Brentford, The marking for those two headers was atrocious.
Danny O’Neill
196 Posted 16/05/2022 at 06:18:50
Burn the 5G masts Mick!!

We have to stick with a manager. That's been our problem.

Get through this on Thursday and Frank Lampard can do what he needs to do in the summer.

For those who are more that way inclined, I anticipate partly through necessity and partly through his way, that we will see a lot more younger players introduced.

Whatever league we're in, we'll be there. I will be.

Ray Roche
197 Posted 16/05/2022 at 06:59:49
Steve @192

Re the racist remarks, Brentford play Leeds, if it's a choice between Leeds and Everton staying up who, if you were a Brentford player, would you like to avoid relegation? Who would you want to help? Leeds fans or the racist fans at Everton?

We're now all tarred with the same brush. The racist scum abusing the Brentford families should be named and shamed.

Alan J Thompson
199 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:22:33
While a case can be made for referees' bias I tend to believe that the standard is just so poor and has been for a long time. Then they bring in VAR to stop clear and obvious errors but is then put into the control of those same poor referees and people wonder why it's use seems so poor and inconsistent, which is not helped by the secrecy that seems to surround it. As they say, the first part of the cure is admitting that there is a problem.

There have been some rule changes over the years but most of them of little use such as the kick off, players in the penalty area for goal kicks, sending off the last defender for fouling an attacker whether deliberate or accidental, the drop ball and not offside until you play the ball but nothing has been done to stop the shirt pulling wrestling matches that are corners and free kicks. The only change that seems to be working is the can of shaving foam which is probably the extent of English referees technical expertise.

Can it be changed? Frank's hearing would be a good place to start but unfortunately would need the backing and support of our ne'er-do-well Board.

Graeme Beresford
200 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:23:20
Steve @170….

What minute was this in?

Ian Bennett
201 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:29:26
You'll always lose a game if your centre halves aren't up to it, and after the red card we were bang in trouble.

If Delph and Mina were fit yesterday, that game is won. But instead a patched up back line screened by Doucoure who can't pass, Gomes who is just hopeless, and a mixed bag up front.

Survival will come down to whether who we have available to play on Thursday. If we play with that back 4 and same midfield will be playing championship football next year, and that's what they are.

Tony Abrahams
203 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:39:43
Been awake since 4am, and wonder if that goal we scored just before half-time changed the managers tactics? I was arguing with my son and my brother because they both thought I went completely over the top about the first sending off, but it happened about ten seconds after I felt we should have had a penalty at the other end, and watching Oliver in real time, he never broke stride, and seemed to run faster before he went right for his back pocket, and produced the red.

Some of the decisions I’ve seen Oliver give against Everton over the years, made me feel cheated, but it’s gone now, (fuck ref watch) and yet again…. Why can’t these referees be made to consistently explain their inconsistent decisions?

Tony Abrahams
204 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:41:45
I don’t think moaning is the right phrase Ian E, but what did Jags say again?
Danny O’Neill
205 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:45:51
That's a shame to hear Steve. Merseyside Police are assisting an investigation now. I get passionate watching football and in particular Everton, but fucking control yourselves. Sorry for expletive Bernie Quinn - I hope you excuse me.

As a fan base and as a footballing supporting country, we have mostly moved on from that bar a few remaining ignorant bigots.

I won't repeat on here, but I remember when our supporters had a very prominent and racist chant in the 80s. I know an Evertonian who gave up his season ticket when we signed Daniel Amocachi. I recall a Runcorn based supporter who used to stand next to me in the Gwladys Street and travel to away matches on the same coach with a badge proclaiming the same chant. The Daily Mirror called us out if I remember?

I don't say those things to be controversial, but as my mother always told me, look in the mirror before you point fingers, because they are often pointing back.

Liverpool has always been a city of diversity based on our outward looking history. The oldest black and Chinese communities in the UK. I know I keep going on about it, but the same lady, her daughter and son still serve me in the Goodison Supper Bar now just as they did when I was 14; I am now 50. In between, I've been to South Armargh, Bosnia, the Middle East and Afghanistan. Then back to Goodison. Lovely people; more a part of the County Road community than me.

We are all human beings regardless of what we look like or where we come from. And I am not looking my fighting best these days!!

The UK is built on immigration as are other countries mostly. I am half Liverpool-Irish, 1/4 Northern Irish and 1/4 Scottish. This type of bigotry has never had a place and never should have.

Christine Foster
206 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:48:33
I confess to being in a distressed state today, a low ebb. I can't criticize the players or the manager; if I did, it would be petty-minded.

The only player who deserves a kick up the butt is Rondon for the two-footed lunge. I suspect that will be the last action he will be seen in a blue shirt, ending what has been total waste of his time and our money.

I think Calvert-Lewin is done for the season as well, he pulled up just before the end holding his thigh, I fear a recurrence of his season-long injury?

We are running out of games and players... Patience went long ago.

Brian Murray
207 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:51:33
As soon as I seen the name, Gomes, I knew we might be in trouble.

The winning goal really shows we need a dominant fit centre-half. Still think that may be Branthwaite but that's put to bed for now.

What was Doucouré doing with the open-goal header??? Terrible.

Danny O’Neill
208 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:52:33
Tony, I'm still fuming about that. I've been an advocate of VAR and remain so. How was that not even looked at?

Shirt pulling. It fumes me.

Gary Jones
209 Posted 16/05/2022 at 07:56:09
The CB situation is extremely concerning. Unless Keane is fit we are really in between a real rock and a hard place. Put Coleman or Kenny in there, and we’ll likely concede up to 3 headers again. Put Welsh in for a debut, and he could ‘do a branthwaite’.

It’s not really the game, or time, for the latter, but for me it’s still the least of the two risks. Coleman has been “gone” for 3 seasons now. That’s as a right back, and he has never been (and should never be) a premier league centre back. Kenny is too short too.

Whilst Iwobi has done well there, he’s wasted at RB and needs to be back in the middle.

Assuming Keane is not fit, my team for Thursday would be:

Pickford
Kenny Welsh Holgate Mykolenko
Gordon Doucoure Iwobi Allan Richie
DCL

4-5-1. Gray, Dele and Dobbin off the bench if we’re chasing it.

Danny O’Neill
210 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:03:31
Brian, don't start me on the centre-half position. I've been going on about it for years but got told it wasn't a priority.

Christine, it will all be fine come Thursday night. We can breathe again and I can sleep on the train home Friday morning.

Bill Rodgers
211 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:12:50
God this is depressing. It's the referee, VAR, "dark forces against us". And yet what I watched was Brentford outplaying us regardless of how many men we had on the pitch. It looked like Barcelona from 5 years ago vs Tranmere.

If we stay up, this will repeat again and again. There is something deeply wrong when a young centre-forward is only interested in getting his name on a goal. Relegation is probably the best solution.

Christine Foster
212 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:17:03
I stayed up last night, watched Burnley, then Leeds and at 3.30am. Everton. Of the three teams we are better than thebother two without doubt.

But I have to concur with Lampard that decisions are going against us with alarming regularity. Yesterday we got one of 3 stone-cold penalties. Not even a VAR check for blatant body check or shirt pulling. The latter allowed to play on resulting in a sending off and subsequently loss of the game.

It's no longer a case of bad luck or rub of the green, it keeps happening at key moments that change games. It's hard to believe it's just bad luck because it's the absence of using VAR checks in the very areas it was designed for that have lost Everton players and points.

If we do get relegated it won't be just because of Benitez, or the players, but a large part of that blame will be the referees and its governing body.

If we are relegated the club should sue the referees association and the FA citing bias, gross negligence by officials and failure to rectify the club's genuine claims.

Enough. Just Enough.

Matt Henderson
213 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:31:49
We have been decimated in the CB position this year. But you have to say that even at full strength our central midfield is a joke. How have we managed to assemble a central midfield that struggles in every facet of the game. they cannot score, pass or defend and not a decent set piece taker amongst them. I am not exactly sure what they are there for and there is a strong argument to to sell each and every one of them next season.
John Keating
214 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:38:01
Personally I thought our best chance of 3 points was against Brentford as opposed to Palace
Obviously that went out the window after Branthwaites sending off

Hopefully I’m wrong but I fear for anything on Thursday

Regarding VAR, I have been totally against it since it was first mooted. Nothing has changed.
Incompetent referees are now sitting somewhere still making incompetent calls
There is no consistency and clear and obvious errors ignored one week and not another
No doubt there’ll be another raft of clarifications this coming close season which will add to the confusion next season
Get rid and asap

The dickhead abusing the Brentfords players families should be named, shamed and banned. No place for tossers like him/them

Justin Doone
215 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:38:50
I don't believe in conspiracy theories but I do believe the standards and inconsistencies in refereeing and the VAR implementation is below average.

The truth is we as a team and as a club are also below average. So as much as we all love to moan and blame others, especially referees, it's Everton where the problem is.

Long-standing issues that we are all aware of that have unbelievably managed to get worse with Moshiri's investment.

But as fans we can only hope that our support can help lift the performances. The lack of respect, the flares in the stadium, and any abuse needs to stop. We are Everton, not some backwater racist club.


Sorry for the misspellings my phone refuses to play ball or edit text correctly.

Danny O’Neill
216 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:47:26
I'm in danger of getting sent off for hitting the 40 post mark if I carry on, but I took the day off to celebrate staying up. I'll have to wait until Friday.

John & Justin - you hit the point. It's not VAR that is the problem. We've seen technology work in sports like Tennis and Rugby. But the key is having competent officials whether on the pitch or reviewing the decision.

3 points on Thursday then one at Highbury. I don't have ticket for the latter but I will travel and be outside. The dogs have told me it's going to be okay. But they are asleep.

Eddie Dunn
217 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:49:51
As for the ref, he didn't give the pen to us for the shirt pulling because he had been watching Richie backing in to the defenders and he has a tendency to grap shirts himself, as he was doing as the two first tangled. True that Ajar did more of it after the initial contact but Oliver had made his mind up in that instant.
VAR has been designed to keep the game flowing, not to put ref's straight. Unlike Rugby where it really does intervene and play can be brought back.
The biggest error was Branthwaite, who, in my opinion got too close to Toney, Toney felt him on his back and left his leg dangling there to get the lad sent off.
Branthwaite was unfortunate( if it was St Virgil, it would have been classed as "a coming together").
Inexperience on Branthwaite's part.
i also thought that a Bees player was offside in their first goal, in the build-up I saw the goal scorer offside for the first cross, by the second cross, he was onside, but I have seen play brought back that far to check goals in previous games.
This particular ref has seemingly done us down on previous occasions. Perhaps he dislikes some of our lads or EFC as a whole.
If I was a ref, I know that my deep distain for certain clubs and players who I think are cheats, would subconsciously influence my decisions.
The team looked fired-up and dangerous in that fist 20 minutes.
Granted, we also looked disjointed in defence but before the sending off, I was confident of the win.
Frank has dithered on his subs and to leave the deminutinve Coleman to play CB with Iwobi as right back was crazy.
Surely he could have got Kenny on, pushed Myko(who is tall) to CB and Seamus on the right.
Then iwobi could have used his energy to give us more possession.
Frank was dealt a poor hand but he allowed his opposite manager to pull his pants down by cleverly taking off two guys on yellows, and going to a back three.
Frank, once again was passive, didn't react and the game was gone. Lampard spent a few minutes talking to his young sidekick, when he had Clements and Duncan sitting there like stewed prunes.
I have zero faith in his in-game decision making.
The bubble has burst. We have imploded.
The crowd has papered-over the cracks. Now our "big players" are crocked, we are relying on Keane to get over his "sickness".
We need to play Delph and replace him with Allan. We need to get Dobbin on the bench and pump Mina full of pain- killers and get 90 minutes out of him. He can then have a rest.
Tom Davies instead of Gomes.
Matt Henderson
219 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:50:21
And Bill and the hierarchy now gets to sit through the last home game free from fan protest against the incompetence at owner/board level now as all fans will need to be focussed on supporting the team.
James Marshall
220 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:53:07
So many complaints about refereeing and VAR - we've lost 20 games and conceded 59 goals this season so you can't complain about the ref in all of them. Refs always make mistakes and VAR is just another ref watching the same game so they'll still make mistakes. It's part of the game and nothing new.

Branthwaite had to go, no complaints. He should have let Toney run in on goal, at least then Pickford has a chance to save, or Toney misses - if we concede, well we still have 11 on the field and a chance in the game. We were looking decent as well. It was Branthwaite's mistake, not the refereeing.

The shirt pulling at the other end was 6 of 1 and half-a-dozen of another – nothing to see there at all. That's never a penalty and we'd have been furious if it was given against us.

We're all too quick to blame other people for our failings, but it starts at home. The problem isn't the officials, the problem is Everton Football Club.

On a more positive note - beat Palace, stay up.

Danny O’Neill
221 Posted 16/05/2022 at 08:59:55
I think you're right on Branthwaite, Eddie, and it's a good point for those who want to play the kids.

I'm not against that, but a more experienced centre back firstly would have commanded the situation and marked the space as much as the player. He got caught behind. Secondly, would have realised the situation and gone to cover the goal; drop off once you realise you're playing catch up. Thirdly, just leave it to the keeper and stay on the pitch. Nil out of 3 for the young lad for me.

Decision making. One of the most important aspects of playing football outside of instinct.

Dave Abrahams
222 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:00:14
Danny (216),

If we get those 3 points on Thursday, we stay up, Leeds can only get 38 points – we will have 39.

Kunal Desai
223 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:01:59
Even with the weird shenanigans around recruitment in January, surely Alli could have started against the turgid Gomes.

Even just try El Ghazi for something different. It's just all weird.

Danny O’Neill
224 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:07:02
Dave, my Rosary Beads are coming with me.
Ian Jones
225 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:07:54
Christine, not sure if suing the FA or anyone would be in our best interests especially as we are probably skating on thin ice regards FFP etc.
Jeff Spiers
226 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:10:55
Beam me up Scotty!!!
James Newcombe
227 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:12:26
What a rollercoaster - I was convinced we were down three weeks ago; convinced we were staying up following the Leicester game; and now I’m reminded that if there’s a club that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it’s most definitely this one.
Andrew Clare
228 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:18:11
Kunal,
I feel the same about Delle Ali, DVB and El Ghazi.
What was the point in signing these guys?
It just sounds like more Dodgy transfer dealing to go along with all the other signings since Moshiri took over.
Boy have we signed some awful players. No wonder we are struggling for survival in the top flight.
Maybe we will find out the truth one day?
I knew something was amiss when we signed Williams and Bolasie a couple of years back. Just not the type of players you would buy to start team building.
Dave Abrahams
229 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:20:38
Bernie (183),

That FA Cup Semi-Final was in the season before we got promoted and Dave Hickson was concussed after another encounter with Malcolm Barrass. He didn't know where he was…

I fact, the referee sent him to the sidelines to be looked at by the trainers. He had asked Dave the score and Dave replied "We are winning 2-0" – it was Bolton who were winning by that score.

Christopher Timmins
230 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:24:16
We are being put through some amount of pain and anguish this season and yesterday was just so hard to take. To go 1 up and looking most likely to score the 2nd goal to being down to 10 men as a result of a hit and hope clearance. It's a long time since I have seen us play such a high line and we sure did pay a heavy price for mistake.

My big worry is that the manner of the defeat will have a carry over to Thursday and we will go into the Arsenal game needing something from the game or for results to go our way in the Leeds and Burnley games.

For Thursday, Keane to come back in, Davies or Allan or Delph to replace Gomes and Gray to start ahead of Gordon.

Some horrible days of worry ahead!

Michael Lynch
231 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:30:55
It’s that fatal mix of bad luck and bad decisions with us, and our January signings show that. Patterson - out for the season before he can make his PL debut, DvB sick or injured for the majority of his time with us. Dele only good enough for the bench, el Gahzi not even good enough for that. Mykolenko probably the only positive.

Same with our football. Some bafflingly bad luck with refereeing, some poor decisions by players and management.

If we do go down, it’s down to our poor displays over the entire season, but that 0-0 at Watford haunts me. I can see why frank played it so safe, but that was a team just relegated, manager leaving, and 7 players missing, that had lost 11 on the bounce at home and in their next home game shipped five to a team we had just beaten.


Danny O’Neill
232 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:31:08
Or some positive days of belief Christopher?

I get myself into enough trouble following this lot. If I end up at Millwall next year, Mrs Danny has already refused bail and told me not to use my obligatory call.

Bernie Quinn
233 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:33:44
Sorry Dave - you are quite right. Thanks for the correction - my memory is not what it was!!!
Sam Hoare
234 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:38:30
Still stings today. I think what is most disappointing was that the first 20 minutes was maybe the best start we have made all season. We were 1-0 up and could easily have been 2 or 3 up.

We were so close to blowing them away!

But we must move forwards. Quickly. We are still the bookies firm favourites to avoid relegation. We may have already done enough and have 2 chances to seal the deal ourselves.

Palace are a better team than Brentford I'd say but there's no reason we can't beat them. Equally everyone assumes we will get nothing at Arsenal but that is a young team that might easily falter under pressure.

I feel more confident of our survival now then I did a few weeks ago. The players are giving everything and I think the fans are doing the same and even more.

Most Burnley and certainly Leeds fans would choose our situation over theirs. It's painful that we are even in this situation of course but think we save the post mortem for later.

2 games left to retain our PL status. COYB.

Iain Latchford
235 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:41:21
I'm at the point where I honestly don't know how much of this my nerves can take. I feared the worst yesterday when I saw Gomes was starting. Saying that, I thought we were cruising until the sending off.

Not sure if there is any chance we can get Mina and Delph patched up for Thursday. Could really do with them. Thankfully it seems Brentford hate Leeds so will be up for their game against them on Sunday.

All in all it's a pretty depressing Monday morning, but I'll be back on Thursday for the final push. Our record at Goodison under Lampard has been pretty decent. We can do this.

Jerome Shields
236 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:46:34
Bill#158

Thanks for letting me know that Palace is at home. A bit more optimistic now. Working out the permutations thinking about the players we have to depend on, had me round the bend.

Hopefully Allan is fit and Van de Beek has decided to make himself available. Gomes contributes to a walk-through midfield. Now dependent on Calvert-Lewin, though I am still not impressed: position, runs, ball skills below standard.

Rondon turned out to be the plank most said he was. That tackle was madnesses, leaving Everton with fewer alternatives. Keane will be back which means we will have some sort of defence, rather than a makeshift one.

Dave Abrahams
237 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:46:57
Bernie (233), Thanks for your reply, my memory from long ago is not bad, when we stay up I’ll have that to remember but little else from this dreadful season, best wishes with your health problems.

While I’m here just a mention to Kieran in a post on this thread: That 6-0 defeat to Sheffield Wed, was at Hillsborough not Goodison, see even swanking with my memory now!!

Dale Rose
238 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:48:32
Only managed to see the second half. I wish I hadn't… you can't unsee something like that.

Every time Erickson had the ball, you knew something was going to happen. We looked dreadful, I just can't see any goals coming from anyone apart from Richarlison. Alli, Van de Beek and El Ghazi – what was the point of getting them...?

I just hope that we can get something on Thursday.

Steve Brown
239 Posted 16/05/2022 at 09:58:35
Unfortunately, Lampard confirmed Mina and Godrey are out for Palace. But, he hopes Keane will be fit. We blew them away in the first 20 minutes - positive, high intensity football - and need to take that energy into Thursday’s game.

Was thinking throughout the match about how improved we would be with Erikssen in midfield and Toney in attack. Of course, Toney would not come within a million miles of us now given the abuse his family suffered. But quality players are out there with a coherent recruitment strategy.

Get through this hideous season and regroup in the summer. A lot out and a lot in.

Brian Harrison
240 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:03:34
This club certainly has an ability to make our lives unbearable at times. I was euphoric after the Leicester win, and underwhelmed at our follow-up at Watford. But, with 2 home games left and Burnley losing at Spurs and Leeds snatching a draw at the death, I was very confident we could enjoy the last home game without the worry of relegation.

We started really well and Brentford were all over the place and I think the atmosphere got to them. Then we scored and everything was in place for a comfortable win. But a schoolboy error by Branthwaite changed the whole complexion of the day.

I have backed Frank from the off, he always speaks well and he had a real job on his hands when he took over from the toxic atmosphere that Benitez had created. But I couldn't understand our timid approach at Watford when confidence would have been high after beating Leicester.

And again yesterday when we regained the lead after Branthwaite had been sent off, for some unusual reason, he decided that we would sit around the edge of our box and defend from there. This allowed Brentford so much initiative that their goalkeeper was spending more time on the halfway line, so entrenched had we become.

Look, it's really difficult if you lose a man with over 70 minutes left in the game. But once they got ahead and we pushed further up the pitch, their back 4 looked just as nervous as they did at the beginning of the match, and I can't help wondering if we could have done better if we hadn't sat so deep.

Looking at the January transfer window, it just looks so bizarre. We allowed Benitez to sign 2 full-backs and El Ghazi, yet Benitez chose not to play any of his buys. Then Frank comes in a day before the window closes (not ideal) but signs Dele Alli and Donny van de Beek.

Dele is yet to start a game and hasn't even been used as sub in the last few games, and although injured Donny hasn't been the success I am sure Frank hoped he would be.

But he will have to answer as to why he bought a player that Mourhino, Conte or Santos couldn't get a tune out of at Spurs, and the fact we have bought him creates massive problems.

Yes, don't play him so we don't trigger the start of the payments, but we are still paying him £100,000 a week. I can't see anybody willing to pay him that sort of money, so we will have a hell of a job unloading him as we will have to if we go down.

I was quite puzzled by Frank bringing back Gomes but leaves Allan on the bench, I thought since that game when Clement had to call Gomes to the bench to explain what he was supposed to be doing, would have seen the end of him.

Apart from Richarlison, we don't look like scoring. Gordon is a very promising player but, at the moment, there isn't an end product to his game. I think he will improve in that department but just now it's not quite there.

Same with Gray: no end product, and I didn't pick it up at the match but amazed to see Calvert-Lewin talking to the ref telling him it was his goal, not Richarlison's, and replays couldn't tell if it touched him or not. Surely who scored was unimportant but obviously his ego told him it did matter.

Ernie Baywood
241 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:04:19
Dale, I think his plan was pretty clear with those signings (El Ghazi aside). We were going to play better football, be creative, score goals. He was adding some creative and goalscoring quality.

But the decay was already far too deep.

Realising that, he's had to go very, very pragmatic instead which means there's no place for Dele. And probably shouldn't be for the remaining matches.

We haven't lost much at all with these signings. Unless the time or funds spent on these deals cost us other opportunities to sign players in more crucial areas, but I'll guess we'll never know if that was the case.

Danny O’Neill
242 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:08:53
A bit like Calvert-Lewin, I've been wondering whether Allan is unfit, out of favour or being preserved, Jerome?? Even given his age, I still think we'd get £10M for him.

I've said before, Dave, I still don't recall whether my first match was a pre-season against Home Farm at Goodison or a pre-season in Germany against FC Braunschweig (Brunswick) in the 70s. It was around the same time but in the latter, the Germans battered us 6-0 and were chanting "Everton, Everton, ha, ha, ha!"

I was only 6 years old and my dad had a lot of explaining to do as we headed home. He obviously convinced me.

Mark Ryan
243 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:14:27
I would have preferred to see Dele Alli rather than Gomes. Can't Dele be our Eriksen? Am I wrong on the type of player he could be?

I know they played together at Spurs doing different jobs but can't Alli be a better option than fecking Gomes?

Kevin Prytherch
244 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:15:04
Apparently the PGMOL have said that there wasn't enough in the Richarlison incident to overturn the decision – ie, it wasn't a clear and obvious error.

However, if it had been given, it also wouldn't have been overturned.

And that's the issue with VAR and refs, the ref won't give a controversial decision because VAR can always have a look, then VAR won't overturn it unless it's a massive mistake or it's in favour of Liverpool or Man City.

Chris Leyland
245 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:15:21
It’s win or bust time. Well not quite as we could quite conceivably lose both our remaining games and stay up but whilst it’s still in our own hands we had to take the opportunity against Palace on Thursday.

I’m convinced we would have won and certainly wouldn’t have lost with 11 men on the pitch yesterday. We were in control up to the sending off but it completely changed the game.

Palace have pace and directness and have beaten us twice already this season. We need calm and steady heads on that pitch which means we need to pray that Delph is back as we desperately need someone who can put their foot on the ball and take the sting out of it for a while.

It won’t be pretty and it will be nerve shredding but it’s time for a new Barry Horne to emerge.

We also need Lampard to develop the skill of making positive substitutions rather than reactive ones.

Alan McMillan
246 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:20:49
Frank, you speak very well and you seem to get us. But your team selection yesterday was abysmal.

The problem with the raucous reception is the law of diminishing returns. What must the fans do now to motivate the team against Palace, if that atmosphere couldn't get them up for Brentford?

What is it about this bunch of overpaid, dim-witted players that cannot gee themselves up against lesser teams? Nowrich, Watford, Burnley, Brentford, Wolves, Villa, Newcastle, Southampton, Palace, have all beaten us at least once this season.

Neither the team nor the board deserves the level of support they receive from easily the longest suffering, most loyal but bet down set of fans in the league. We must all have a screw loose.

Ernie Baywood
247 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:27:02
We've been carried away by effort of late. But look at the quality.

Pickford - top level keeper.
Holgate - well and truly proven as C grade by now
Branthwaite - very inexperienced.
Coleman - God love him. But he's past it.
Myko - he continues to just be not a very good footballer. Probably a great lad. Certainly a trier.
Iwobi - about as bright as it gets right now. End product is still very, let's say, Alex Iwobi.
Doucoure/Gomes. Both really terrible footballers. Can't pass, can't tackle, positioning poor.
Gordon. Great prospect, hard worker, minimal end product.
DCL - phoning it in
Richarlison - yes. But he's on his own.

Between Frank and the fans we've got some effort and grit in there and that might end up being enough. But it's all we've got. It's a desperately poor team.

We didn't even have anyone with the ability to take a corner or set piece until Gray came on. To be clear, that's no-one with the ability to get a ball about 15 feet off the ground and land it within about a 15 square feet area. It's pretty basic level stuff. We tried Gordon and Mykolenko - both failed miserably. That's how poor this side is.

Thursday night is a battle. We're playing a side that is so much better than we are. That's why they're above us and have not been in the relegation conversation. Hope they're mentally on the beach and don't fancy what we bring.

Robert Workman
248 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:37:15
The strange fact is that, despite losing yesterday, the league table looks better than it did. We now only need 2 points, rather than 4, in order to stay up. More significantly Leeds have to win at Brentford to have any chance of survival.
Dave Williams
249 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:40:30
What a bummer!

The most miserable coach trip home I have ever known. I am trying to summon the enthusiasm to write about it but in the meantime I need a ticket for Palace as I am currently considering taking the coach and sitting in a pub to watch it. The game is not on terrestrial TV so does anyone know of a pub that will show it?

Sam Hoare
250 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:45:26
Mark@243, sadly I don't think Alli is the same type of player as the supremely talented Eriksen at all.

Eriksen is enormously creative with outstanding vision, weight of pass and is able to orchestrate teams and dictate tempo single handedly.

Alli, at his best, is more a dynamo. Constant movement, good technique, power and athleticism; able to link play and get on the end of things.

I'd say that Alli depends to a degree on having the right players and system around him. Eriksen less so.

It is strange that we have not seen a bit more of Alli. But it has been a long time since he has looked at his best and, reading between the lines, it would seem Lampard does not think he has the fight in him for this relegation battle.

Dave Abrahams
251 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:50:58
Regarding that sending off, nobody has mentioned Pickford running out to near the edge of his penalty area before changing his mind and getting back, I'm not trying to switch the blame but just wondering if he had carried on running would he have got to the ball before the Watford striker, anyone in the Bullens Road stands have an opinion on that. I know it makes no difference now but just asking!!
P Ron Wells
252 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:55:42
This team is gash, we all know, and if we stay up, the spectre of this time next year is there to haunt us.

Apart from that, the stench of the Premier League is pervasive. Who can believe in this system after the Man City handball, the push at Anfield, and the undressing of Richarlison yesterday, all in the penalty area?

Barry Hesketh
253 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:58:33
What a weird and not so wonderful day to be at Goodison yesterday. The crowds assembled hours before kick-off outside the stadium, Burnley had lost, Leeds were losing – things were looking good.

Leeds's late equaliser seemed to prick the balloon of optimism, but Everton started well, scored the early goal, and seemed set for an afternoon of joy, until the official decided to ignore the shirt pull on Richarlison and allowed play to continue until the young kid got caught out and was sent off.

From that point on, despite the award of a penalty and Everton leading 2-1, the fans seemed to lose faith and the players followed suit, or that may have been the other way around. Where was the clever play that was evident in the Chelsea game?

Anyway, that game is over now and we need one more mighty push on Thursday to try and get the win that we need to assure survival. We as fans can't allow our fear to envelop Goodison and thus inhibit the players, we need an atmosphere even stronger than the one against Chelsea. Each individual fan has to put aside the permutations and the ramifications of a negative result and just urge on the players and believe that the points will be won against Palace.

Following the Burnley defeat, we all would have settled for an opportunity to win one game to stay up, Everton have already had two failed attempts at Watford and yesterday... Let's make sure that it's third time lucky on Thursday.

Allen Rodgers
254 Posted 16/05/2022 at 10:59:39
Robert @248, strange indeed. Even stranger, we can lose both our remaining games and still stay up, always provided Leeds lose or draw at Brentford.

I'd take that right now!

Jerome Shields
255 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:09:38
Brian# 240

Benitez let it be known that he had no involvement in the January transfer window. He was prepared to offer to leave as a result.

The Transfer where a continuation of Brands's summer work and deals done in the wake of the Digne transfer, both which Benitez was not involved in. It is questionable whether Frank was involved either.

Ian Edwards
256 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:13:22
Christine 202. Racist abuse is wrong. I hope the perpertrator is found and dealt with.

Foul language is also wrong but endemic in society and on TV...

Jack Convery
257 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:18:56
I have checked on Mykolenko and in season 20/21 he played left sided centre back 14 times. Including for the Ukraine national team. Maybe Frank needs to give him time there in training this week in case Keane doesn't make it. If Keane does play on Thursday we'll need to get right behind him to boost his confidence, especially if he still feels ill. Hopefully the adrenalin kicks in and he gets through 90 minutes.

Surely its time to give El Ghazi a go. I've checked and seen he's played RW, LW and even CF on several occasions in the past 4 seasons. He's scored 55 goals in 262 appearances for Villa, Ajax and Lille. He's also got 36 assists in the same period. Given our lack of goal scorers and players who create chances you have to wonder why he hasn't been given a chance, especially as Grays form has fallen off a cliff, Anthony Gordon looks to be running on empty right now and Rondon is past his sell by date. We need something different for Thursday, so why not give him a go. His stats are way better than Dele Alli over the past 2 seasons.

Mark Ryan
258 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:19:04
Cheers for that explanation regarding Dele Alli Sam @ 250.
Best we buy Eriksen then
Dave Lynch
259 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:19:35
Jerome, are you telling us that the Digne, El Gahzi deal was not of Benitez's making?

If true... then that's criminal. I've a Villa mate who can't believe El Ghazi hasn't been given a chance; he says, although not the greatest, he's a game changer on his day.

The turning point yesterday was the first sending off, we had them by the scruff up until then.

Pete Clarke
260 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:31:37
Can't stop looking at the table and trying to somehow make it look better. Having said that I'm sure both Burnley and Leeds would happily swap for our position.

Palace are a difficult team to play and they don't lose many games either. Mina would have been the preferred center half for that game but seems these players can't handle a bit of pain.

Delph is the same and I'm somehow hopeful that Frank offers him a nice bonus to get out there and play because he does bring a bit of calm and organization to the team. Just don't see where we win this game unless Palace are not up for it. A draw is not the end of the world but not far off it.

We would need another draw at Arsenal to guarantee safety if results elsewhere went bad. Too many permutations going on in my head but not sure the heart can take a final day battle for survival again.

Like a lot of you, I keep thinking back to the Watford game and if we'd gone at them like we started yesterday then we would have blown them away. We actually had enough chances in the game to have still won comfortably so can't point the finger at Lampard too much. Just pure lack of quality in our team.

OK, gotta get back the the league table again.

Phil Lewis
261 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:34:23
Barry #253,

Great post, I couldn't agree more.

Positive support is essential on Thursday, but the mass hysteria and panic displayed by many fans could actually prove detrimental to the cause. Rally the troops, but not to the extent that they lose their heads!

The fear was palpable as the game wore on against Brentford, both on the pitch and on the terraces. Frantic effort was no match for the calm assured match-winning ability of Eriksen. We played into his hands and his silky skills took full advantage. Sadly we have no such commanding General in our ranks to control our flow of play.

Instead, Lampard must select a team on Thursday and a formation which plays to its strengths. Vieira will not bring a team that is easily intimidated to Goodison. I'm certain that he will have his players well drilled in the art of channelling opposition hostility into calm control.

The match is played over 90 minutes, it has been evident in many of our games this season that we start like world beaters for 20 minutes then burn ourselves out only to be overrun and defeated. I've named culprits many times before on TW, but now is not the time for inquests. 'Cometh the hour, Cometh the man!'

Whoever Lampard selects on Thursday, I believe it is imperative that it is in a 4-5-1 formation.

And may the Good Lord be on the side of 'The Righteous'.

Brian Denton
262 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:52:15
What we mustn't do is LOSE to Palace. If we get another point it will mean we go to Arsenal needing only a draw, irrespective of the Leeds result. We can get a point at Arsenal, whereas 3 is out of the question.
I think in my long memory of Everton, Arsenal away has been our least productive fixture. They even beat us in 84-85.

Burnley are a wild card. I was hoping Spurs would tank them to give us a GD advantage, but there you go.

Michael Kenrick
263 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:56:07
Regarding vile comments on the Live Forum, if you see something you don't like, flag it to us, then we can do something about it. Thanks.
Tommy Carter
264 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:56:21
Well. We have it all to do. Unfortunately Palace are the kind of side that will give us a lot of problems. They have the kind of pace and power that physically we really struggle to match.

We cannot afford ill discipline. We have had too many cards in recent games. Poor refereeing or not, that fact remains. The game is an hour and an half long. All we have to do is get the 3 points at the end of it. If we go behind, or are struggling to force the issue then patience is required. Desperation and trying to force it will mean we come unstuck. We don’t have the legs or quality to continually press and be on the front foot. However, covering ground sensibly, winning our 1v1 situations and building attacking momentum when we have the chance is what should be the focus.

Too gung ho trying to win the game in the first 30 mins will play right into their hands. They’ll kill us on a counter attack.

I’m a fan of Frank. He is very emotional, very passionate. That passion will take us so far, but when he played, he played with a cool head and an assured determination. His players are not capable of this and he must find a way of getting he balance right.

The absolute last thing we need is to go to the emirates needing a result.

Dave Lynch
265 Posted 16/05/2022 at 11:58:21
I'd go further than that Brian.

We must "beat" Palace, no one will have our back and we can't expect them to either.

It's in our own hands, win on Thursday and all is good because Arsenal will tear us a new one.

They have as much to lose as us fighting for a European place. They have too much quality all over park for us.

Barry Rathbone
266 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:05:02
There's always one unlikely twist at season end and us in pole position for survival appear destined to supply that twist. Deffo see Leeds and Burnley snaffling the requisite points as we do our usual coward routine under pressure.

The day we shit out of letting Benitez manage to the end of the season, relegation was written in the stars any new guy needed heaps of luck which just doesn't exist at Goodison Park.

Doomed we are.

Brian Denton
267 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:09:11
Dave, it goes without saying that beating Palace is the ideal result, but losing it would mean we have to WIN at Arsenal if Leeds win at Brentford. We won't win at Arsenal, but we could scrape a 'ten men behind the ball' 0-0.
Christopher Timmins
268 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:11:41
Danny

I am 60 in September and unlike you I have lost the ability to stay positive no matter what is going on around me. I tend to worry about things that don't need worrying about, not that our survival falls into that category.

I want more than anything to take my seat in the new stadium on the banks of the Mersey with us as a Premier League Club.

If we get through the next week and survive I have great hopes for the club going forward. We have a young manager, learning his trade in exceptionally difficult circumstances. This is a great learning curve for him, he is experiencing situations that he never had to face as a player. He will be a better manager for the experience. He has a connection with the fans and that is something that has not been present for a long time.

I do think he can bring about a major uplift in our fortunes going forward and have the side playing a more attractive brand of football in the process. He did not come to Goodison to have the ball continually passed back to Pickford for it to be launched up the field.

If, things were not to work out this week then the consequences are potentially dreadful, therefore, the next couple of days will be easy.

Kevin Molloy
269 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:11:47
A pattern is definitely emerging. Where we keep it tight as hell we normally do well. When we try to be expansive, we get bitten hard. So, tempting as it is to go gung-ho against Palace, I suggest we treat that game as if we are playing Chelsea. If it's nil nil at 70 minutes, that's just fine.

It's our last chance. Leeds will beat Brentford at the weekend, we have to understand that. It's the biggest game in the club's history on Thursday.

Brian Denton
270 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:13:22
Btw, just noticed we kick off 15 mins before Burnley on Thursday. That is not good.
James Marshall
271 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:19:27
Kevin@269 that's probably a good mentality to have. Play on Thursday as though it's our last game of the season in my view, I've looked at it that way since we looked like relegation fodder months ago anyway - that we'll get nothing at Arsenal.

Of course we could get something at Arsenal but they're going to going out all guns blazing against us and it's always felt unlikely, especially if they win tonight because Spurs play Norwich on the last day which is pretty much a free 3 points for them so Arsenal need to beat us to make the Champions League.

Bottom line is that it's all still in our hands, and that's something Burnley & Leeds would die for. We're still in pole position, albeit a shitty one.

Rob Halligan
272 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:29:09
Is there really a conspiracy in force to ensure we are not in the premier league next season? Let’s look at a few facts, which go back as far as our second home game against Burnley………

1)….Tarkowski challenge on Richarlison. Could have been a straight red card, but only a yellow. Ok we won the game but lost Richarlison for a few weeks due to the injury he sustained by that challenge. Also what impact did Tarkowski have in the three games following, when he could have been suspended?

2)…….Shelvey challenge on Gordon at Newcastle. Straight red, no question. Again, Shelvey remained on the pitch, and again, what kind of impact did he have, when he should have been sitting in the dressing room? Debatable if Newcastle would have won the game playing with ten men for an hour, but we’ll never know.

3)…….Two handballs at Southampton, one stonewall, but neither given.

4)……….Penalty against Spurs, awarded then overturned by VAR. Ok, Lloris may have got a fingertip to the ball, but in his next movement brings Richarlison down, denying a goal scoring opportunity.

5)………….Penalty incident against Man City. Need I say anymore?

6)………..Allan red card against Newcastle. Never a red. Again we won the game but more importantly we lost Allan for two league games.

7)………….Penalty incident at Anfield. Blatant push on Gordon in my opinion. Not even reviewed on the pitch side monitor. Seen them given down the other end!

8)…………Brentford yesterday. Winning 1-0 and should have been awarded a penalty for a shirt pull on Richarlison, but instead seconds later we are down to ten men. As usual, Dermot Gallagher on Ref Watch on SSN, takes the easy option and defends the referee. When you see a still picture of the incident, Oliver is not even looking at the shirt pull, yet Gallagher thinks Oliver may have thought both players were pulling shirts. How can he think that when he’s not even looking at the incident? Also, it looked to me like Richarlison has a flat palm, his fist isn’t clinched. The penalty we were given. Could easily have been a second yellow card and therefore a red, but Gallagher thinks it was just clumsy, and therefore not a second yellow. The sending off of Rondon. No complaints, was a reckless and stupid challenge, and a straight red, but think back to the Tarkowski incident earlier. No difference in my opinion. No doubt there are plenty of other incidents I’ve missed. I know we have been dire this season, and some may say we cannot blame the officials for being dire. I agree with that, but that does not mean we should suffer due to poor decisions by these complete morons who claim to be referees.

As for the other results yesterday, particularly the Leeds one. The most important thing is they never won. A loss or draw was what we wanted. Had they won, they would have gone above us. They need to beat Brentford as even a draw is no good for them due to their goal difference.
Will all be irrelevant anyway, as we’ll beat Palace

Tony Abrahams
273 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:30:01
Very good post Barry H, it’s still in our hands, and although we are not a very good squad, what more can we ask for, especially when you consider we were 5 points adrift before we played Chelsea.

Last thing about the ref because my opinion has always been that once the decision has been made you can do nothing about it, (I know it’s different now…but) but what was even more sickening to me, was that a minute after the sending off, Oliver was stood in the middle of the pitch tapping his arm, indicating to Pickford, that he was going to be adding any time wasting on. It definitely looked like he was the boss, and he appeared to be really enjoying it.

Gary Jones
274 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:32:12
As if this Monday isn't depressing enough, I've just realised that a draw vs Palace may not be enough, as Leeds are only a point behind not two. Taking one point from Watford and Brentford really may be the final nail in a heavy coffin. If it's any less than 4 after Palace, we deserve whatever comes next.

Christopher Timmins
275 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:37:18
I am just after reading over my last post, the last part of the last sentence should read "the next couple of days will not be easy".

I think I will give the forum a break until Friday morning, hopefully things will have resolved themselves by then.

Iain Latchford
276 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:44:48
The frightening thing is that by this time next week all this will be over. If we lose or draw against Palace I'm not sure I can cope with a scenario of us losing against Arsenal, whilst Leeds are drawing with Brentford and throwing the kitchen sink at them in the last twenty minutes. All this will be combined with what maybe unfolding at the Etihad.

What a time to be alive.

Anthony Murphy
277 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:45:17
Looking for positives - if Villa beat Burnley on Thursday it’ll mean both Leeds and Burnley need to win on Sunday should we not pick up another point.
John Raftery
278 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:49:26
Kevin (269) I agree. Staying compact is the only way our team can compensate for its lack of quality. A third of our points this season have come from games against Manchester United, Chelsea and Leicester, teams far superior to us in terms of possession play. Yet we have contrived to lose to Brentford (twice), Southampton, Watford (twice), Burnley and Norwich, teams our managers presumably thought we could dominate.

Given our track record it puzzled me as to why, in the pivotal moment of yesterday’s match, with a 1-0 lead, we had so many players in the opposition half leaving the back line exposed to a simple hoof up the field. Lampard’s naïveté has made our league position more precarious than it might have been.

Danny O’Neill
279 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:49:37
I was up in the Newcastle sky on the far end of the pitch, Rob, but I could see in real time that Shelvy tackle was a straight red.

Being positive is all I have left, Christopher.

As well as trying to breathe normally and keep the dogs calm. Or is it them trying to keep me calm?

Iain Latchford
280 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:52:45
Just read that Mike Dean is on VAR for the Palace game.
Shane Corcoran
281 Posted 16/05/2022 at 12:56:54
Rob # 272, take several months off ToffeeWeb, seriously. It's clearly detrimental to your health.

I've one point to make and I'm going to try really, really hard not to partake in these conversations again as I'm starting to annoy myself.

Even if we allow for a certain level of bias, or lack of mental strength among the officials in the game, and also for sheer incompetence… Everton are not important enough to be the subject of a conspiracy to get them out of the Premier League – and certainly not to enable fucking Burnley to survive!!!

Anyone that disagrees with this point, I feel, needs to take a break from the site. If that doesn't work, then maybe see a doctor.

I'm serious.

Dave Abrahams
282 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:00:14
Jack (257), I think a few Everton fans would have liked to see El Ghazi been given some playing time but he has played about twenty minutes since he came to the club and think he will be a bit ring rusty to start at this late stage of the season, same goes Van de Beek, still beggars can’t be choosers and he could be worth the risk.
Danny O’Neill
283 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:02:53
That's what the dogs are for Shane.

Thursday night followed by a relaxing day out in the London sun at the weekend. Reset in the summer and then off on one of Rob's European tours in 2023-24 that he's promised me before we head to Bramley Moore.

Kevin Molloy
284 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:04:06
Good news, I think, Iain. If Mike Dean wants to go out for a pint in peace on the Wirral at any time in the next 40 years, he'd better have his eyes to business on Thursday.
Ian Edwards
285 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:13:25
Thursday: Anthony Taylor Ref and Mike Dean VAR. worrying.
Eddie Dunn
286 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:13:26
Dave, they may be worth a shot. We have to remember that Burnley have had their centre-backs out and Leeds have had both injuries and red cards.

It is not a coincidence that teams like ours are getting reds. It is highly stressfull and rash decisions are more likely. We have to hold our nerve.

Frank has made lots of mistakes but seemed to have found a way to win. He is far from blameless but remember that most of this squad were here last season, with enough games in hand to sneak into Europe. They bottled it.

This lot's also demonstrated last season that they can park the bus and hit on the counter, but leave gaps everywhere when they try to take the game to the other team. We have lacked pace in defence and midfield for several years.

You can't do well in the Premier League without either very good touch (James, Sigurdsson) or speed. At present, we have neither.

Hopefully Leeds implode at Brentford, but I saw them play Brighton with tremendous directness and aggression, so they are capable of winning there. Burnly are an ale-house team, but they can keep it tight, and in Cornet, they have a match winner.

We simply need to keep it very tight v Palace and try to catch them on the break. We are not good enough to dominate. It's going to be very tough.

Brian Denton
287 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:15:00
Shane (281) sensible post mate, despite the capitals!
Dave Lynch
288 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:15:35
Shane is right.
We are not important enough, the Derby is another money spinner for Sky as well.
We need to get rid of this conspiracy mindset, it does us no favours.
I'll bet for every poor decision we've had one in our favour throughout the season.
Its just plain and simple really... we are a shit team, run by a shit board, who employed shit managers, who bought shit players, who employed shit tactics.
I excuse Frank from the above as he inherited all of the above.
Tony Abrahams
289 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:17:42
I think your capital letters statement is hard to disagree with Shane, but this Michael Oliver has got form.
Peter Carpenter
290 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:18:06
Shane (281), Quite right.

Ian (285), Oh, fuck!

Tom Bowers
291 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:21:16
Everton know what they have to do regardless of other teams.

They should have done it yesterday but shit happens as we saw from the officiating.

When you need a little luck it's very hard to come by so we have to earn it good style against Palace.

COYB

Danny O’Neill
292 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:24:55
I don't disagree with your points on the conspiracy theorism Shane. I think the sentiment is about favouritism. It's increasingly blatant.

I will disagree on one thing though mate with all due respect; Everton aren't important enough? I live them. You live them. We all live them. Everton are massively important. Always have been, always will be.

James Hughes
293 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:29:10
I know think Shane is part of the conspiracy and is covering for the powers that be. Gotcha Shane, admit it mate :)
Mike Owen
294 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:34:25
Thought I'd join you all on the ToffeeWeb self-counselling service.

For me, one of the more bizarre, but perhaps telling, aspects of our team in the last week is the sight of Jordan Pickford taking free-kicks from 40 yards or more out of his goal.

I am shouting "Get back in goal!", but then I'm thinking, well, perhaps, he is one of the best passers/strikers of a ball we have. And he has the self-confidence to take them.

As for our dealings in the transfer market in 2022, I am left wondering if we have a phantom director of football.

Even before Jerome's assertion that Benitez had no involvement in the January transfer window, I somehow felt the dealings weren't at his instigation.

Then, if we turn to the signings of Dele Alli and Donny van de Beek, they walked through the door virtually the same day as Lampard, so the extent of the new manager's involvement in their signings leaves me scratching my head. As for El Ghazi, I am totally bemused.

Looking to Thursday, if Keane doesn't make it and the other centre-backs are out, I'd consider playing Calvert-Lewin there.

Some lateral thinking is needed. I'd consider El Ghazi up front, but can he be match-fit now?

I don't understand why speedy Dobbin has not been on the bench. Play some balls through for him to run on to. Plus he will run and run and close down their defenders. Playing in the Under-23s will have kept his fitness up.

Demari Gray may be due a goal. He started the season passing the ball into the goal. But recently, all his shots seem to go a yard wide.

I'd be pleased to see Tom Davies back. He'll run and run and run. But then he's been out a long time.

I've decided that for the next three days I should for the sake of my mental and physical health, resign myself to the drop. Until Thursday, though, when I know I will hour by hour work myself up into a frenzy of unbridled optimism.
COYB.

Tony Abrahams
295 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:35:06
I can’t stand things like ref-watch but because it was on the Everton homepage, I’ve just watched Dermot Gallagher’s description, which wasn’t very good to be honest. #lets get these referees to speak#

Stephen Vincent
296 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:43:30
I am puzzled as to why we put 6'4" Reece Welch on the bench and then completely ignore him when the game was crying out for a player of his physical stature. We were getting bullied all over the pitch, Mbeumo had the beating of Mykolenko, Eriksen was just running the show (what a player by the way) and Toney looked likely to win everything in the penalty area, yet Frank chooses to delay and delay a substitution, when everyone can see that we are in total panic mode and any semblance of a plan trotted down the tunnel with Branthwaite.

Now I know most will say he's a kid, no experience, this is our PL future etc. etc. but anyone who has watched him for the Prem 2 side knows that he is strong, mobile and has looked a real prospect. He is an England international for his age group.

He was the obvious choice to shore up the defence but again Frank chooses square pegs. Who would have gone off well obviously Gomes whose selection still baffles me completely.

As to the refereeing, we have lost 20 games this season and had we taken matters into our own hands we would be more than safe, irrespective of the decisions that have gone against us. I don't remember a referee making the dreadful tactical choices for us at Watford last Wednesday.

Danny O’Neill
297 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:45:41
Speak and be accountable.

Players and managers are made to speak in front of of cameras minutes after the 90 plus minutes when they are understandably still caught up in the emotion and full of adrenalin.

They get reprimanded and fined for criticising or speaking their mind.

Yet the officials are immune. Unaccountable. They answer to no-one. They hide behind a cloak of secrecy. It's not a call of 'conspiracy', it's a call for openness and professionalism. The ref at Watford on Wednesday couldn't keep up with the game.

If they were politicians, we would be calling for heads.

Ray Jacques
298 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:46:52
Whatever happens on Thursday, Gomes must not play.
Barry Rathbone
299 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:52:00
I cringe when the idea of conspiracy is raised.

As a straw to clutch at, it really is the final one as every team gets its share of crap decisions. The fact our lot can't tackle, pass or finish properly is what makes such moments look more influential.

Hardly conspiracy if your own players are creating the mess…

Iain Latchford
300 Posted 16/05/2022 at 13:58:01
There's no doubt this season has not been good for anyone's health. I'm drinking way too much. I used to smoke but now vape, which has reached unprecedented levels. Constantly checking my phone for updates about Everton, or looking at the league table and fixtures.

Then there is the constant stream of games which we have to endure. It's like supporting 5 teams, when you combine the games you want other teams to win or lose.

I want it to be over, but only if we've stayed up. If we go down the pain continues, or gets even worse. I feel exhausted from it all.

Gary Mortimer
301 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:07:42
Shane #281.

Sorry I disagree completely.

The conspiracy is to get Everton relegated so that the city of Liverpool is represented by the (in the current media's words) the best team in the world. They don't want little old Everton with all it's history back to 1878 confusing all the TV subscribers around the world.

They've airbrushed Heysel out of their history, let's airbrush the city of Liverpool's oldest professional club out too.

There have been too many bad decisions against us, that have certainly not been evened out by bad decisions for us. It's not incompetence as it's every ref, where any opportunity and they will always chose the decision that favours the opposition.

VAR has just made it more obvious. The non-penalty and then the non 2nd yellow card for the penalty given, prove that something stinks. A ref just cannot get both of those decisions wrong, especially with VAR there to give the ref a chance to look again to see if he missed anything.

We are way down the list of importance, but it is there "Get Everton relegated"

BTW Robbie Savage and Chris Sutton both said that if Richie had gone to ground in the shirt pulling incident it would have been a stonewall penalty. There you go, pundits who usually say that he goes down too easy are saying he should have gone down. You know something is not right when they are saying things like that.

Soren Moyer
302 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:08:42
I agree with the comments on some biased decisions against us by refs but I just cannot completely blame everything on that alone.

How about our dreadful showing at Watford!? Was that ref's fault too!? Or the collapse at Burnley for that matter!

George Cumiskey
303 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:08:45
If we do stay up and people start talking about getting rid of the deadwood, I hope Doucouré is included in that — he was the worst player on the pitch against Brentford and has been for months.
Stephen Vincent
305 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:11:23
Danny, 'the ref at Watford couldn't keep up with the game'.

He had probably nodded off waiting for something to happen which required a decision.

Brian Harrison
307 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:14:45
Danny 297

I have been calling for this even before VAR was introduced, but its quite evident that refs do not want to go in front of camera's right after a game and explain why they made the decision. Just like they also don't want the screen to show what VAR has asked them to look at, and they also don't want you to hear the conversation between the ref and the VAR official.

Now you have to ask the question why both Rugby codes and Cricket allow you to hear this conversation but the football refs don't. Why havent Sky demanded that whenever a VAR official has got involved then everybody can see and hear whats being said, because they can show their Sky subscribers the pictures but us match going fans are treated with contempt by both officials and Sky.

Tony Everan
308 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:18:50
Stephen Vincent 296, I was thinking the same, the defence was makeshift to start, and miraculously we got to half-time a goal up. Coleman as a centre-half and Iwobi as right back was a weakness too far. The defence had to be shored up.

Reece Welch is very inexperienced but his stature and physicality had to be a better option as the right-sided centre-half. Shift Coleman to his right-back role, sub maybe Gordon and move Iwobi into midfield to press relentlessly with his energy.

Frank has opted for experience with out of position players but got it wrong in the heat of the moment on Saturday. The alternatives may have still not produced a win or a point but would have given us a better chance of fighting Brentford off.

Colin Malone
309 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:23:18
Why did Ancelotti bring an ageing Allan to Everton? Because we needed a leader / organiser on the pitch, which was missing big time yesterday.

We had an headless chicken in Doucoure who cannot pass a ball. Gomes who has got guile asked to play in a defensive midfield role, who is not a ball winner.

So we had a defensive midfielder who cannot tackle and a roaming midfielder, who can not pass a ball.

A holding midfielder / leader, who can tackle and organise around him, sitting on the bench.

Christine Foster
310 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:35:22
Tony, just had a look at ref watch, so as I understand it, if two players are grapling, to use his term, then the referee doesn't have to make a decision? Where on the pitch does that ever happen? That's bias in favor of the defender. That would have been blown anywhere else on the pitch.

The explanation is invalid and if possible foul play led to a goal it has to be reviewed. It was contentious, God's sake if a toe can trigger the VAR, then not a clear and obvious offense so the referee can do his job.

He made an error leading to a game changing moment and compounded it by its dismissal. A foul is a foul irrespective where it occurs. The game did not carry on to afford advantage, it carried on and gave unfair advantage.

Geoff Williams
311 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:35:37
I have never been party to all these conspiracy theories and I have always considered Michael Oliver to be one of the more better referees but having witness his performance yesterday one starts to have doubts about impartiality.

One thing is clear: the current referees shouldn't be the VARs. The current crop of referees are found wanting both on the pitch and in the VAR studio.

Tony Abrahams
312 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:51:14
The only logical explanation is that the manager wanted someone who could pass the ball, Colin. Although this was definitely working early on in yesterday's game, I think everyone could see we needed more legs in the middle of the park.

Once we went down to 10 men, nobody was surprised when Brentford turned it around, because Everton just retreated and went into their shell, which also negated our wonderful supporters.

"Those who learn quickest go the furthest" was a phrase that was uttered very often when I was a young footballer, and I think this applies to Frank Lampard right now...

Tony Abrahams
313 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:56:31
It's like going to court and getting away with something because they aren't allowed to cross-examine you, and your barrister is also very good friends with the judge, Christine.

Dermot Gallagher was full of contradictions, was the only genuine conclusion that I could make, and I'd much sooner hear from an official who was involved in yesterday's game. Let's get these referees to speak!

Rob Halligan
314 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:58:50
Listen, I know we’ve been garbage all season, but does being garbage mean referees don’t award you stonewall penalties, or send off opponents for dangerous challenges?
Pat Kelly
315 Posted 16/05/2022 at 14:59:14
"We can do this" seems to be the recurring theme. We thought that yesterday. But Everton have a way of beating themselves even when they go ahead. Would it be any surprise if they collapse on Thursday? When you think they can't possibly get any worse, they find a way to plumb new depths.

The squad is now threadbare and their collective nerve is shredded. I don't think they have the backbone for it.

Christine Foster
316 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:00:19
The days of acceptance of trust in a referee's decision-making disappeared with the VAR. Instead of providing assistance to referees during a game, it is used selectively, making its credibility worthless.

Indeed, it makes its very existence worthless and a bone of contention if it's only used selectively at a referee's discretion. If a referee does not see something, the VAR does – surely it's an instruction to do so?

If a foul is dismissed in the lead-up to a goal, the VAR will pull the game back. If there is clear and obvious foul play in a penalty area, the VAR must ask the referee to review if he missed it.

If he did not miss it but dismisses it, then it's error and has to be reviewed. What is the point of the VAR if it allows clear and obvious foul play?

Shane Corcoran
317 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:00:59
Gary # 301, I obviously think what you’ve said is beyond the realms of sanity.

I could try to remember a list of decisions we were fortunate to get and use it as evidence but it’s probably pointless.

How long do you think this has been going on? It’s just that we’ve had two last-day escapes. Surely that was the time to get rid of us? Or in the recent home games when we were favourites to go down. It’s a very badly executed conspiracy.

Why did we get what I consider a very soft penalty yesterday? Why give us those if he’s going to try to get us relegated?

Christine Foster
318 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:02:41
I really need to sleep... bloody Everton!!!
Tony Abrahams
319 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:05:44
Some people obviously still believe, Pat, and although I think I know what you're saying and why you're saying it, but before the Chelsea game, we were 5 points adrift and a lot of people were talking or writing with the same lack of belief that you're writing with now.
James Marshall
320 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:10:04
1 win, 2 draws or a Leeds defeat sees us safe.

The only thing that can fuck us is 2 defeats and a Leeds win.

I'll take those odds.

Bill Gall
321 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:17:34
Watching the game over again (i know I am a glutton for punishment ) the Richarlison incident, both players where pulling each others shirts, it was just that the Brentford player hung on longer.The red card on Braithwaite cant be excused I just wondered why he had no backup as Toney was the danger man on long balls. My only moan on the game was after the sending off, there seemed no plan to play with 10 men and even the commentator said it is close to half time and Frank will be able to organize his defense.

I don't think he did, down to 10 men 2/1 ahead, we needed an extra defender in as we new we would be pushed back in the second half.
He had choices, bring Allan on and take off either DCL, leaving Richie to work on his own, that he has done before, or Gomez as he is not a good defender or even Gordon who looks like he needs a good rest.

Lampard seems to take a long time in deciding to make changes but in this case he had plenty of time,as after the sending off he was shown talking to his coaching staff and I assume that was what they were talking about.

The sad thing about this season is we are now relying on other teams to do us a favor to avoid relegation, this is disgraceful and I don't want Everton to go down, but we should stay up on our own merits, not relying on other teams at this point of the season, so we need 3pts on Thursday, if not Lampard has proven he is no better than previous managers who ave been fired.

I don't understand what they do at FF,as when other teams have a corner I expect the worse and don't understand that when you watch
Erikson on video one of his favorite corners is that flat low one so why don't they position someone ahead of a player as well as behind,
Maybe that is why I am just a pensioner watching at home instead of on my luxury yacht in the Mediterranean.

Gary Mortimer
322 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:18:51
Shane #317

So what you are saying is that if anyone disagrees with you then they are insane?

Very interesting debating technique.

Brent Stephens
323 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:19:01
I don't believe in any conspiracy against us, not in the sense of significant numbers of officials consciously conspiring against us. What is possible is that some individual refs consciously or unconsciously make decisions not in our favour.

Having said that, at the same time, we sometimes see the same refs give us significant dubious decisions in our favour - which are easy to ignore (Shane's example as one).

Attending away games, I see exactly the same sense of outrage expressed by fans of other sides at individual decisions - many of which I agree at the time could well have been given in their favour.

Iain Latchford
324 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:19:58
James, if Burnley lose at Villa on Thursday, it also means both them and Leeds need to win on the final day, thus improving our odds further.
Allen Rodgers
325 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:30:29
Christine @318,

I haven't had a good night's kip for weeks despite swigging copious amounts of malt. Roll on Thursday and an end to the agony!

Rob Halligan
326 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:34:42
Bill # 321. As it stands, we are not relying on any other teams to do us a favour. It’s entirely in our own hands. Beat Palace and we’re safe, leaving Leeds and Burnley to scrap it out for the final relegation place.
Leighton Cooper
327 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:35:18
Soren 159, it goes back to December; Watford had lost 11 straight games in a row at home until we bowled in. They then promptly lost their next game 5-1, giving them a last 13 home game record of played 13, lost 12, drew 1.

That drawn one could bite us massively – much to their fans' delight, who seemed to have an odd hatred of us.

James Marshall
328 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:37:35
Bill @321,

"The sad thing about this season is we are now relying on other teams to do us a favour to avoid relegation"

That's not correct – if we win one of our games, we stay up. It doesn't matter what Leeds or Burnley do, it's entirely in our hands.

Iain @324,

Yup, also worth a mention and further ammunition to fire up our players – if they ever needed such a thing.

I still feel we would have won the game yesterday had it not been for the first red card, and that gives reason for optimism for Thursday.

Jay Harris
329 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:42:15
I think we have to allow for the fact the squad is threadbare and war-weary yet, despite that, with 11 v 11 we were playing good football dominating the game and winning.

I know the feeling I got when Oliver ignored Richarlison's shirt beeing ripped off and sent Branthwaite off, so imagine how the player felt.

Despite that and a short period of total domination by Brentford, we were always in the game until Rondon's moment of madness.

Now it all hinges on Palace. Win and we're safe; otherwise, it hands the intiative to the other two.

Squeaky bum time, I'm afraid.

Shane Corcoran
330 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:44:00
Gary, no that’s not what I said. Read back and you’ll see.

I imagine if I put forward certain views you’d think they were insane too. Although obviously I don’t mean insane literally.

Brian Denton
331 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:47:46
James, one draw for us and a Leeds win puts them above us. They are only 1 point behind atm.
Gary Jones
332 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:48:38
I don’t, for one moment, believe there is a genuine concerted conspiracy against us. That would kill the entire game if it were ever exposed.

However, I do think there is a lot of hatred, jealousy and dislike for us across opposing fans, teams, media commentators and - most concerningly - match officials.

I don’t, for the same moment, believe it is beyond the realms of possibility that referees talk regularly to each other. Conversations along this lines of “got dogs abuse at Goodison the other week” Or “felt completely intimidated to give decisions” would be uncommon conversation. I also know Scouse prejudice runs pretty deep across the UK.

Doubt we are unique in the abuse, and in no way am I blaming the fans. We often have good reason to give every bit of abuse….Michael Oliver ALONE has already cost us enough points to remove safety. He’s not alone.

My point is simply that just because the idea of a “conspiracy” is out of reality, does NOT mean there isn’t a deep seated prejudicial attitude towards us. That is no different than any other bigotry and needs to be called out and investigated.

Alec Gaston
333 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:52:28
I am just exhausted with this season – just win on Thursday Everton - I can't do this much longer…
Dale Rose
334 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:53:41
Just had a look on Brentfords GPG fans forum. There is some nasty stuff on there about alleged racism by our fans, not just the incident yesterday.
Bill Watson
335 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:54:00
Tony #312

Yesterday' game, like the Burnley and Watford games, clearly demonstrated Lampard's tactical ineptness. He should have brought Kenny on after the red card or even at half time but chose, instead, to move Iwobi back leading to us being overrun in midfield.

He dithered until 70-odd minutes by which time we were trailing 2-3. Even then he failed to bring on Allan, a recognised ball winner, and a player who can pass to a blue shirt.

Even with 10 men, yesterday's match was extremely winnable given the right subs at the right time. Notwithstanding the appalling refereeing, the game was won and lost by the two managers.

However this nightmare season pans out, we need a root-and-branch overhaul of the way this club is run.

Trevor Peers
336 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:54:08
I agree with Christine @310,

The decision not to give Richarlison a penalty was diabolical and ultimately game-changing. Oliver should face his own personal ban after such a huge mistake, but nothing will be done or happen in what has turned into a corrupt sport rotten to the core, run by big business whose only concern is making money for filthy rich billionaires.

Got to feel for popular Frank Lampard, a really nice guy, god love him, he's given it his all. He's made plenty of mistakes, perhaps too many, he's showed great spirit and I hope he gets the win he deserves v Palace.

But why Moshiri didn't widen the net when he sacked red Rafa, only he knows. Surely a more experienced coach was needed, it's just another chapter in his personal catalogue of disasters since buying the club, but that's all history now.

We'll find out on Thursday if the gods are smiling on Lampard and on us. It's still in our hands and we should just make it but it's far too close to call.

The biggest post mortem ever will happen after this season has ended and rightly so, it should be very interesting, that's for sure, after the worst season in my living memory and I was born in the 1950s.

Danny O’Neill
337 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:55:04
Colin Malone, I've said it time and again. He may not wear the armband, but Allan is one of the few leaders we have.

Christine, I have Asda carrier bags under my eyes. We can sleep on Friday. And breathe normal again.

And the dogs can relax. They're worried.

Joe Corgan
338 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:57:51
Dale #334 - I've heard similar things. There are dickheads in every large crowd. Add frustration and maybe some alcohol and the outcome appears to be racist abuse.

I hope the club identifies them as quickly as possible and bans them for life. Racism has no place at our club or in football.

Raymond Fox
339 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:59:11
The way our season has gone so far, Leeds will beat Brentford, we'll get three sent off against Palace and have four penalties given against us.

After the racist incident, Brentford won't want particularly to do us any favours! We are trying our best to go down, Crystal Palace are a photo-fit of teams we like to lose to.

Bill Gall
340 Posted 16/05/2022 at 15:59:14
My comment also stated that Everton should stay up on their own merits.

Jeff Spiers
341 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:04:00
Leighton @327. They've hated us because we beat them at Wembley. Sharpy was offside for the first and Gray's was a foul on the keeper. Even Bob Wilson said so!! Fuck them!
Mark Taylor
343 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:12:59
You can't blame referee decisions for losing this one. I don't think you'd normally get a penalty for the one before the red card, both players holding on to each other. As someone else above said, VAR won't intervene if they think the ref had a clear view, which he did. Whether that is right or wrong is another matter.

You can partly blame Branthwaite. He was a little slow to react when the ball was hoofed forward. He actually caught up with Toney so he's not slow. But he misjudged the spin on the ball. He was on the right of Toney, looking from the halfway line, but the ball spun to the left away from him. Maybe that could have been anticipated more. But he's only young, he's playing because we are down to bare bones.

And therein lies the problem on Thursday. Who is now fit and willing? It's staring to look like a wafer thin cast. Some seem fit but not willing, some the other way round. Others, like Gordon, look plain knackered.With 3 CB's now likely unavailable we can only hope Keane recovers. Even assuming he does, I make it we're 10 down. Not all are better than the options we have but if you take Seamus, without back up, can he really play at 100% with multiple matches in a week? Not included in the 10 are Dele and El Ghazi. I've no idea what their purpose is to be frank (no pun intended).

Whatever patched up side goes out Thursday, we must win. This is by far our best chance of 3 points and I have a horrible feeling we'll need them.

Iain Latchford
345 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:25:11
We have to hope Keane is able to play, then it's him, Holgate, Coleman and Mykolenko. Ideally Delph recovers, if not then it has to be Allan (or maybe both!).

Going to have to be a backs against the wall performance. If we try to play expansive football their pacey players will run all over us. Probably means we'll try to grind out a 1-0 win. Oh the nerves!

Alan McMillan
346 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:39:53
got no sleep last night, my ulcer is at me, i'm stooped over and getting migraines from the stress caused by these bunch of sadists.

Someone on here once said Everton are like an abusive partner, they do nothing but take from your soul, break your heart then promise to reform. For a while, they do. But then they slip back into the old habits of hurt and humiliation. Alas, you can't leave them out of love, loyalty and the deluded belief that, one day, they will change, and your love will be reciprocated.

Jerome Shields
347 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:50:31
Bill#321

Erikson was not discussed at Finch Farm.He was not seen as a threat to Everton.Noone analysed the way he played or thought of giving him special attention. He was allowed to do what he liked.

When Brentford changed from a 433 to 451 in the second half to take advantage of the extra man there was no tactical changes or substitutions by Everton to counter this...In other words nothing was done to take account that Everton had 10 outfield players, other than make slight adjustments to shore up existing tactics.

Andrea Jacobs
348 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:55:16
This boisterous confidence we’d built up was, it seems now, so fragile. The red card destroyed the unwavering support and turned it back to fear and anxiety.
A banging start to the Palace game is needed, a 2-0 lead, and no further misfortune. We have to win this game, I can’t handle the final day permutations.
Raymond Fox
349 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:58:00
After my somewhat tounge in cheek comments in post 339, I don't see Leeds winning at Brentford.
We don't want to rely on that result though, far better to put it to bed ourselves on Thursday and win.
You never know Burnley could lose their last two games and save us also.

As others have already said it looks like lampard will be picking a patched up side against Palace, he's no choice.
Of course we still have the Arsenal game to play on the last day but we are 5/1 to win that.

Jamie Crowley
350 Posted 16/05/2022 at 16:58:33
All this chat about referees, I'm going to make two points in separate threads, the first of which I want to mention but is NOT my main point.

The Branthwaite red for me, is still a mystery. I saw it clearly as a coming together. It was clumsy and an accident. I've heard a lot of, "last man" arguments, but that is NOT the law as I know it. Reminder, I may 100% be wrong on this, so feedback is welcome.

The implementation of the law isn't if you're the "last man", it's whether or not you prevent a clear goal scoring opportunity. If there's a clumsy coming together, you've not stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity as there was a clumsy jostling for position, NOT a man grabbing or kicking out to prevent a goal scoring opportunity. Ergo, how is that a red??

Will Mabon
351 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:03:28
Shane,

my personal view is that the majority of our (EFC) problems are real, tangible issues with the team/squad and club as a whole. I do though believe we are getting an ever-less subtle bias being brought to bear. There quite simply seem too many occurrences, growing in number, and with interesting consequences and timing.

More widely, I've posted once or twice recently of last month's renewed and deepened relationship between UEFA and Europol, to address issues of corruption real and potential within the game.

Whilst this might intuitively be taken as the upper echelons monitoring the lower levels and game as a whole to maintain order, and indeed will be manifest as such, it can also serve as an incidental signal to deflect from the idea of corruption/control from the top itself.

Now I'm not for a minute suggesting this is the deliberate intent. Two things to consider though; the fact a need has been identified for such a structure. And, the historically ironic truth that there is a past and proven record of unfortunate happenings within the game by exactly the structures tasked with maintaining function and integrity.

The takeaway from these two points - be careful who you trust, and be careful who you trust.

Sport and football in particular is a now huge, burgeoning and complex business, comprising endless relationships of collusion, competition, gain, loss, change, maintenance, good stuff, bad stuff, etc. And influences.

I think you go too far in suggesting something amiss in those exploring or considering possible machinations. Near impossible to prove, foolish to dismiss out of hand, is my way of looking at it. So, control the paranoia but minimize the naivety, keep the eyes open. To ignore ain't the way.

Jamie Crowley
352 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:04:05
Second, more important point for me.

Richie doesn't get the shirt pulling call. It was a pen, of that I have zero doubt.

Do you know WHY he didn't get the call?

Because Richie is a 30th level Master of the Dark Arts. He dives. He rolls around as if shot fatally. He embellishes. All of it, all of the ugly stuff he does.

Because of this, he has a reputation, and because of said reputation, he's not going to get marginal calls because he's continually either conning refs or acting the Drama Queen.

You reap what you sow.

Many of us have been calling for Richie to get the hell up and get on with it. Yes, he's kicked all over the pitch and absolutely should be looking to draw fouls.

There is a CLEAR distinction between drawing a foul, and morphing into Greg Louganis style diving.

All the above being said, I love Richie, I can't name another player who has played as hard as he has, we have to keep him, he is class. He's given everything to the cause and I adore the kid.

But he simply has to start to get up, get on with it, and curtail the rolling, whining, diving, play-acting, etc. It's not working, you don't get the refs on your side, and your name should rightly be sullied if you engage in deception.

Tony Abrahams
353 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:06:24
That’s how I felt at the time Jamie, because Branthwaite put both his hands above his head trying to slow his run and avoid a coming together, but Toney, was quite clever imo, especially when you watch him after the red card trying to be a little bit sympathetic.

I’ve heard they are the rules though, so if that is the letter of the law, let’s forget about the shirt pulling up the other end. Watching it again on ref-watch, it never showed Richarison holding the Brentford defenders shirt, but it did show him holding him off with his arm, but it’s gone now.

Shane Corcoran
354 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:06:32
Jamie, I’ve no idea of the actual law or of any directive but, from memory, Toney was goal side of Branthwaite who in his attempt to recover the situation initiated the contact and hence a red.
Jamie Crowley
355 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:12:42
Tony -

Good points. I agree.

Shane - Your description of the event, even if Toney is goal side, doesn't meet the criteria of preventing a goal scoring opportunity because Toney is NOT clear through on goal! Two men, jostling for position, because one tries to reposition himself while watching the ball and there's a clumsy challenge isn't the same as preventing a goal scoring opportunity.

It's a foul and a yellow, all day long for me. I've thought about this a lot, and if anyone can let me know my interpretation of the last vis a vis "last man" [read garbage] and "clear goal scoring opportunity is incorrect, I stand to be corrected.

Jamie Crowley
356 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:16:01
Also important to note, I think this complaint about the officiating as well as this conspiracy theory is garbage.

Not because there may not be elements of truth in each respective argument, but because of this:

We are exactly where we are because of the way we've played and the shortcomings of management to make sound decisions.

The refs haven't helped. Perhaps a bunch of southerners in the VAR booth who have disdain for Scousers didn't help either. But we need to look in the mirror before we start pointing fingers.

Dare I say (gulp!!!), that other lot from my now 15+ year experience are the masters at finger pointing. I don't like it.

Brian Wilkinson
357 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:19:28
It is just me overthinking or has anyone else had the same thought.

Normally when a team is on the defence, more times than often they will clear the ball into touch, however if their seems to be an appeal for a foul or penalty, the defending team keep the ball in play, as long as they can, and try to keep hold of the ball, in doing so the official more times than not, keeps up with the ongoing play, whereas had the ball gone out of play, it then gives the ref a reason to pause play.

Had the Brentford player put the ball in touch, instead of launching it upfield, I am pretty sure we may have had a better chance of reviewing the incident.

The big mistake the ref made was giving out the Red card, without having the option to review the previous incident first,he made a Rod for his own back, even if it may be the letter of the law, something needs changing.

It is not just Everton, I have noticed it a few times this season, an appeal, suddenly the defending team play short passes, speed the game up, and get as far away from their danger area as possible, without putting the ball into touch.

Will Mabon
358 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:20:36
Jamie,

the Branthwaite one is tough. There are, all over the pitch, deliberate actions and accidental coming-togethers. The consequences in these through-on-goal issues change the dynamic. That position probably represents arguably the "Easiest" chance to score that a forward will have, save for a penalty - even though many players fail to take the chance.

It all comes down then, to a judgement of probability by the referee, and an assessment of what was deliberate or not.

It is possible as a forward to "Slow" into a chasing defender and fall. It's possible as a defender to run into a position of tangled legs, without it looking obviously deliberate (note - always raise both arms with forward palms).

It's also probably near impossible to judge the reality. Best of luck to the ref on these, I have to say*.

* and in the current spirit of the thread, assuming all propriety :)

Will Mabon
359 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:31:04
Brian @ 357,

good point in the second paragraph, never thought of that. Also gives the players chance to "Appeal" to the ref when he stops running.

Ed Prytherch
360 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:39:00
Back to El Ghazi. I believe that he was bought by Moshiri without input from Benitez, Lampard or Bill. It is a lousy situation but put yourself in Moshiri's shoes. He trusted people at the club with his money and they blew it in large amounts. Who can he trust? - his buddy Joorabchian.
Do we know that El Ghazi is even training with the first team?
Stephen Vincent
361 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:40:44
Every time we get into this 'the world and his mate are against us' argument my mind goes back to the truly awful 1997/98 season when we went into the last game of the season in the bottom 3. Bolton lost to Chelsea and we drew at Goodison with Coventry which meant that we survived on goal difference and Bolton went down. What the history books don't tell you is that in the away game at Bolton, which ended 0-0 Bolton scored a 'goal' that had goal line technology been around would have sent us down. The ball was literally 2ft over the line when Terry Phelan (I think) hooked it back and despite Bolton protests no goal was given.

Remember 2019/20 season Aston Villa vs Sheffield Utd at Villa Park. The Villa reserve keeper carries the ball over the line for what should have been a Blades goal, Michael Oliver (the same) says that the technology didn't indicate that the ball had crossed the line in spite of the fact that every one knew it had. Bizarrely VAR refused to intervene despite being in possession of evidence that the ball had crossed the line. The consequence was that Villa survived by a point and Bournemouth were relegated.

Bill Gall
362 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:58:54
Jerome # 347
I think we only had 9 outfield players + 1 keeper
Bill Gall
363 Posted 16/05/2022 at 17:58:56
Jerome # 347
I think we only had 9 outfield players + 1 keeper
Brent Stephens
364 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:04:10
Jerome #347 "Erikson was not discussed at Finch Farm.He was not seen as a threat to Everton.Noone analysed the way he played or thought of giving him special attention."

How long have you worked at FF, Jerome? Keep us informed of what happens at training.

Nick White
365 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:10:34
Stephen, I remember that one! Southall was surely fouled for that so justice was ultimately done!
Tony Everan
366 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:11:14
Has there been any video evidence that Richarlison was pulling Ajer’s shirt ? I haven’t seen it yet.

I read the referee and VAR ‘felt’ Richarlison was pulling the defenders shirt.

If there was no hard evidence of that and clear and obvious evidence that Richarlison’s shirt was being almost pulled off his back then why did VAR ignore it ? On SKY refwatch the referee was looking in the wrong direction at one stage.

‘Feeling’ something doesn’t cut the mustard, when there is evidence to hand , especially when it could see a club relegated.

Ray Roche
367 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:12:06
Stephen @361

‘ the away game at Bolton, which ended 0-0 Bolton scored a 'goal' that had goal line technology been around would have sent us down. ’And had VAR been around it would have clearly shown the foul on Southall immediately before the goal attempt.
I was in the stand with some Bolton fans and right in line with the goal, yes, it crossed the line but Southall was definitely fouled. It’s an old chestnut that people drag up to make a point but choose to forget the foul.

Jerome Shields
368 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:20:12
Brent#364

It was obvious because of the way he was allowed to play.He is their most dangerous player and was known as such before the game.Everton did not man mark him or press him when he was on the ball.Often he was in space. As Bill said his corner taking was as he had done before.

Brian Wilkinson
369 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:20:34
Will@359, yes that’s a good point as well I missed, when it is out of play, the players swarm the ref, whereas the team that committed the foul, in keeping the ball in play and moving forward, that then takes out the chance for players to question the ref.

Frank cannot say this but I will on behalf of Frank, if that happens across the park, Salah has his shirt nearly ripped off, then the very next phase, the ball gets hoofed up, vvd is caught out and received a red, there is absolutely no way that var would not have got involved, they would have been all over it.

The shite would have got a penalty and the Red card over turned.

Will Mabon
370 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:21:49
"Bizarrely VAR refused to intervene despite being in possession of evidence that the ball had crossed the line."

This is what it's all about in a nutshell - the possession and control of pivotal information and subsequent outcomes, essentially entirely without consequence.

Shane Corcoran
371 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:29:27
Is it not the case that VAR isn’t allowed intervene in such cases as the Villa game as there’s another flawless system in place to deal with those scenarios?
Brent Stephens
372 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:32:14
Jerome, yes we could have done a better job on Eriksen. But we don't know what's discussed at FF.

Anyway, 3 points on Thursday. Training today looked more organised than of late!

Stephen Vincent
373 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:32:38
Ray, guilty as charged. But I don't think the foul was given either. But the point is that we have to get rid of this paranoia, we are starting to sound like red shites God forbid.
Tony Abrahams
374 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:35:37
So you think Michael Oliver has been equally fair to both teams, in the last three recent games he’s refereed Everton, Stephen?
Martin Mason
375 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:39:43
Yes we were badly treated by the referee and should have had at least one penalty and one Brentford sending off but we were winning and staying in the EPL and we threw it away with two totally unnecessary Red Cards. I say that the fans were badly let down and if we do go down, and it is back on the table, then the reason will be the stupidity of the players and coaches.
Matthew Williams
376 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:43:19
I'm pretty sure much more will happen to our club if we go down...whereas if we stay up nowt much will change...and the misery will just continue.

I still believe that we'll limp over the finish line,but not by our efforts mind but for Burnley and Leeds to flounder on the final day.

Palace. 1-1
Arsenal. 2-0 defeat

Danny O’Neill
377 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:46:52
No way Matthew.

Everton 2 Palace 0
Arsenal 1 Everton 1

We're doing this.

Shane Corcoran
378 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:48:26
Will, I’m not suggesting that football is clean.

I’ve always said that it’s a beautiful game but a disgusting sport.

There’s clearly been corruption and I’m sure it still exists. And sure, it’s possible that Everton have been on the wrong end of a fixed result.

What I’m dismissing is that Everton have been targeted by the powers that be in the English game with a view to getting them out of the league.

With regards to an increasing number of decisions going against us, I imagine that most clubs have an element of their fan base who think they’re jinxed, targeted etc.

It seems to be one of many strange behavioural traits of soccer fans.

In some ways it’s fascinating. In other ways, it’s very tiring.

Ray Roche
379 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:52:00
Stephen, you’re right, the foul wasn’t given. And we are getting a bit paranoid too. But it’s understandable when you look at some decisions, the City one in particular. Incidentally, when RS fans call us paranoid point out that the City game ‘penalty’, if given, would have denied City of two points and watch them change their tune!
Matthew Williams
380 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:55:50
I hope you're right Danny... but what will change at our club next season...a pot at long last?...a win at Mordor!... European qualification?...taking the League Cup seriously for a change?...Kenshite quitting?...a ten game winning streak?... playing just one holding Midfielder for a fucking change?...a live forum full of hope and joy?

Doubtful...sigh

Stephen Vincent
381 Posted 16/05/2022 at 18:59:53
Tony #374, all I'm doing is pointing out is that Oliver's incompetence isn't confined to us.
Robert Tressell
382 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:00:46
Shane #378.

I'm sure I have my moments but I like to think I'm fairly level-headed and rational. However, this season, I have seen a consistent series of decisions against us that, taken together, look very much like corruption or an agenda of some kind.

When you see things like this, you can often calm yourself down by looking for a motive and finding there just isn't one. But, in this case, it's different.

Everton stood up to the Rich 6 in relation to the Super League. Everton also stand out as being the only club outside of the Rich 6 not to be relegated in the Premier League era. We are an annoyance. We are a barrier to untold wealth and domination. We stop the Rich 6 being able to justify their own pedigree.

We are not like Leeds or Villa or Newcastle (who can claim to be big clubs too) because we haven't gone down. Yet. If we go down, it is a lot easier to justify a Super League – and we'll have no voice to argue against it.

So I think there is a motive. And there is definitely a decent chance of actual corruption.

Tony Abrahams
383 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:03:45
Fair enough, Stephen, it's time to move on.

But, in the case of Oliver, something hasn't felt right in these last few games.

Brian Hennessy
384 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:03:51
Jamie #352 Great post. I couldn't agree more on Richarlison. He is his own worst enemy.
Frank Thomas
385 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:03:56
Tactics, it always come down to the tactics laid down by the manager before the game and at halftime and not for the first time this season the wrong tactics and players were selected.

With the greatest respect to Brentford and Watford I would rate our players man for man more talented that theirs.

For the Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea games we pressed every time they crossed into our half we pressed them and made them move the ball faster inducing errors into their play and we took advantage of those errors.

We did the same after losing Branthwaite UNTIL the team talk and Frank must have emphasaised keep your shape stay in formation, let them come to us. The problem is that is the tactic he has used in all the other games. That is like letting the opposition take a series of free kicks, they choose when to pass and who to pass to and eventually they WILL score especially if it is kicked straight back to them. If you look at the replay on Sky TV you will see what I mean they are in two perfect groups of four and DCL taking Richy usual role just stood there maybe he has been watching Rondon play. Very poor play from DCL BUT he did keep in formation.

Did you watch the Spurs vs Arsenal game? Arsenal were all over Spurs from the first moment. Spurs were mindlessly kicking the ball out to relieve pressure and just heaped more pressure on themselves by following that tactic. Then it changed and Spurs kept possession played it out, kept the ball and won the game. Something we did not do in the Watford or Brentford games.

Two last points, I also think we need to win on Thursday or we are down so IF we do survive DO NOT GIVE FRANK a new contract for another 4 years.
Last point which idiot gave Holgate another 4 year contract???

Gerard McKean
386 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:04:27
Jerome @347, apologies if this has already been said earlier on the thread but I've not had time to look at TW until now. I don't know whether you have an inside channel into Finch Farm that makes you speak so authoritatively but in any case I think your analysis is spot on.

I was reading some of the comments on TW last week about “putting a foot in” on Eriksen. This was obviously a tad old-fashioned for some people whose comments in reply seemed to suggest someone was trying to maim him. He is so far out there as Brentford's best player that, if you nullify him, you win. Peter Reid would have known how to nullify him and I think Allan might have done a decent job.

As it was, we gave him the freedom of Goodison, especially in the second half. Even down to 10 men and a bent referee, we could have won that game, or at least not lost, if Frank had set up to close Eriksen and the game down.

I was screaming for Allan to come on at half-time for Gomes and stick to Eriksen like a limpet. I also wanted Kenny on because Iwobi is never a right-back. Not necessarily taking Iwobi off but just don't leave him as a last line of defence. At that point, I'd have been tempted to take off Gordon or Richarlison for Kenny and shut up shop.

Brent Stephens
387 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:04:36
We're not alone. Here's just a snatch of the conspiracy theories held by the fans of other teams.

Link

Link

Link

Link

Link

Martin Mason
388 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:06:14
Matthew.

How much money will we have to remove the current faults? My bet is that we'll see none of your "long last" changes.

My bet is that Lampard will try his best and we will sack him even though he has an impossible job. They will sack him because, in the end, us fans will demand it as we demanded the sacking of all managers since Moyes.

Brian Hennessy
389 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:09:18
Martin. That's would be because, with the exception of Ancelotti, each of our managers since Moyes were shite.
Danny O’Neill
390 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:12:52
Once we get this week and this season out of the way and I breathe and sleep again Matthew as well as give the Ridgebacks some well earned rest (it's been tough on them) I'll go for:

1. We sort the board room out in the summer.
2. We have a respectable finish in the league.
3. We break our league cup duck. What is it about that competition? Let's fix it.
4. We qualify for Europe.

I may be a dreamer, but if you don't dream, they never come true.

First they take your pride. Then turn it all inside. So you try to stop, try to get back up and then you realise you're telling the story of they blues.

This is an emotional week so please forgive me. My heart was sold to Everton the day I was born and I'm never getting it back. I'm going to be more emotional than usual this week. Excuse my ramblings.

Shane Corcoran
391 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:14:01
Robert, I’m missing your point on the Super League, us standing up to them and the relevance of us never being relegated?

Leicester won the league six years ago. Shouldn’t they be subjected to some bad decisions?

There used to be the Sky 4, now it’s the Rich 6. How did that happen? Will Newcastle make it the Super 7 with their wealth? Will the number increase to 10 as long as we’re not in it?

Alec Gaston
392 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:14:52
Lampard has a massive job... but he should have gone for it against Watford – win that and we would all be sleeping easier for the next 3 nights and not talking about the VAR.

I have no idea whether we will beat Palace – heart says Yes, head says No. COYB 🙏

Christy Ring
393 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:15:57
I still cannot understand why Allan didn't start or even come on after the sending off. Is he carrying an injury?

The last game Doucouré and Gomes played together in a two-man midfield, they were a disaster, and nothing changed yesterday. Allan is the only defensive midfielder we have, apart from the injured Delph. Allan and Van de Beek have to start against Palace; if he's not fit, start Davies.

Regarding the sending off, which we know should have been a penalty for Richarlison, but one big hoof from defence and Branthwaite and Toney are the only players in our half of the field?

Rob Dolby
395 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:18:34
I think most club's outside of the top 6 will agree that the standard of refereeing for all is average at best. Add Var into the mix and you have poured petrol onto a fire.

Countless times this season I have watched lots of games not involving Everton where I thought Var was just endorsing poor decisions by the on field ref.

The spurs pen yesterday was a prime example of a team near the bottom getting a shit sandwich whilst the team at the top got the break.

Var has reduced the amount of goals in the Prem, increased ambiguity with on field ref decisions and generally turned most leagues in Europe into a bureaucratic mess.

I do have sympathy with refs, there are 22 players trying to con them into every decision. My sympathy ends when it's pretty obvious most refs have never kicked a ball in anger but just like officiating and being in control. They aren't much higher up the food chain than traffic wardens. Unfortunately the same types are running the game at fifa and uefa.

As someone posted above, we sit tight and hit palace on the break. A repeat of the cup performance would be a disaster.

Maybe we are due a decision from a ref.

Martin Mason
396 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:18:49
Brian@389 Of course they were, silly me.
Alec Gaston
397 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:20:04
Danny #360 sums it up perfectly
Shane Corcoran
398 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:20:19
Nice work Brent, makes one of my points very well.

I came across a Liverpool fan site who were claiming, with stats to back it up, that considering how strong they are at home, how few penalties they get at home.

Chris Leyland
399 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:23:46
People keep talking about how shit we are and how we are doomed but are also forgetting how poor Leeds are too. We have 2 games left and one is a home game whereas Leeds have 1 game left away from home. We have 1 more point than Leeds before these fixtures.
Leeds had won 4 out of 18 away games this season and we have won 8 out of 18 home games.

Then there’s Burnley who have an away game and a home game left and we have 2 more points than them already. Burnley have won 2 out of 18 away games and 5 out of 18 home games.

The bookies still have us third favourite to go down and more often than not the bookiee are right. It’s still in our hands but all we as fans can do is go on Thursday night and offer our unconditional support. We can’t control what happens on the pitch but we can help influence it by driving the team on as we did against Newcastle, Man U and Chelsea.

Derek Moore
400 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:27:33
Without reigniting a debate that you seem to feel you have already won Shane C, (#378) I find your conclusions similarly fascinating and tiring.

I personally believe that for a big club like ours to go down, it's a simple equation. A lot of things have to go wrong - injuries, marginal refereeing decisions, managerial hires, players leaving and not being adequately replaced, form slumps and even the league schedule itself.

When enough of these things happen, voila! And here we are still unsure of our premier league survival halfway through May.

But I've spoken to other Blues online and elsewhere and they do think there's something more than just "bad luck" in the decisions going against us. When I've asked why they've felt this way I've received some surprising replies.

My brother thinks that the repeated bad decisions are "payback" for our vocal and consistent opposition to the proposed (postponed?) European Super League. We were among the largest English clubs to not be invited, and one of the leaders in uniting the other clubs in opposition. Did we make powerful enemies within the UK football hierarchy? Or perhaps within the powerful media companies that are the paymasters and whom really do essentially control the modern game?

A Blue I talk to on another site holds that the poor officiating is linked to our ownership situation. The UK government seized and forced a sale of Chelsea football club due to the situation in Ukraine. It's well known that our owner is closely associated with an oligarch. It's also acknowledged that our owner is at sufficient arms length to not face the same sort of direct intervention.
In this scenario the bad decisions will keep on coming, if nothing other than to encourage Moshiri to divest himself of the club. And as a pseudo-punishment for his association and business relationship with Alisher Usmanov.

The fact is that both my brother and online friend have a plausible enough reason for the consistent bad decisions we are encountering. Neither is easily refutable although it's important to note that there isn't really any evidence for them either.
But they are logical enough points that fit the circumstances, and neither seems particularly far fetched or absurd.

We did piss off the big 6 when they tried to bolt for the ESL. Our owner is closely linked to Usmanov, up to and including the somewhat dodgy stadium naming rights deal and training ground sponsorship.

I've stated my position and beliefs on what's happened to us this season. But without definitive knowledge of what happens in footballs power echelon I don't attempt to impose those beliefs or views on others either. Ultimately if it makes sense and it can't be disproved it's as reasonable a theory as any other. That's my view.
With all due respect, I don't get the same sense of intellectual generosity from what you've written in this thread on the subject?

Brian Hennessy
401 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:28:18
Anyone know what hotel Palace are staying in Wednesday night? Just asking for a few friends who want to pop around and welcome them to the city and show them the "bright lights".
Brent Stephens
402 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:41:42
I'm surprised at these stats, if correct (taken from the EPL official site)...
Link

This has Everton having conceded only 2 penalties all season - joint second lowest (that other shower conceding zero).

And this from another site
Link

has us being awarded only 1 fewer this season than the other lot (and those other high flyers, Palace). I assume it's correct?

Matthew Williams
406 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:46:34
A top post that, Danny, sounds good to me too.

Jeez, our fucking club, eh... I cried when we went 2-1 up yesterday. Now I just feel numb and totally confused with the running of our club, and how we play the game in general too.

I am just dreading Thursday now... I can't help it like!

Shane Corcoran
407 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:49:07
Derek, intellectual generosity is an interesting term. In fairness, at least you and others on this thread have made some attempt at an explanation of this conspiracy. This isn’t usually the case.

But it seems to me that in both you parties’ views they’ve started with a belief and worked back. Much like organised religion. God exists and here’s why, rather than God probably doesn’t exist because of all these reasons.

If we were among the biggest clubs to stand up to the Super League, shouldn’t the other clubs who did it also be targeted?

When Chelsea jumped ship, weren’t they more damaging than we were?

And this would suggest that the conspiracy only begun this or last season.

But both of the scenarios are absolutely possible. Everything is possible, God might exist.

So I acknowledge both scenarios as being merely unlikely in my view.

It’s not a matter of winning the argument. I’ve no interest in doing so. I’d actually love to be wrong but I’m a bit of a prick when it comes to seeing evidence in general.

Ian Edwards
408 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:50:46
Brian 389.

Ancelotti was shite. Utter shite. The rot set in under his leadership. All those home defeats. Remember being outclassed by Sheff Utd? The dreadful football. Allardyce was better.

Ancelotti never trained. He basically used it as managerial training for his son, Davide.

Danny O’Neill
409 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:55:39
I can't wait until Thursday Matthew. We do this.

For those who know Brent (Brenda at weekends), he is one of the most balanced Evertonians and knowledgable followers of the game I've met, even though it's only been over a short time, so listen to what he says.

He religiously follows the blues up and down the country as well as watching the U23s regularly. Top blue - a bigger one than me.

Brent, I hope you don't mind me passing on my best wishes to Mrs Brent. I hope you are both well.

Top man.

I told you I'm going to be emotional this week. Just put up with me.

Ed Prytherch
410 Posted 16/05/2022 at 19:58:35
Ian, You think Ancelotti was shite but he beat the Shite!
Ian Edwards
411 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:04:13
There have been a few conspiracy theories why we lost. The correct reasons are more to do with tactics and effort.

We started the second half sitting too deep. DCL was not chasing or closing down. He stood in the centre circle watching defenders pass and run past him. I was literally screaming at him to move his arse. It was like playing( at that stage with 9 men). Brentford saw this and took off a defender and threw on a more offensive player.

Lampard froze and did nothing. He watched Brentford dominate and allowed it to continue. It was clear we needed another body in midfield to stem the flow. He was outcoached miserably.

He bottled Watford away. Every other team going there since New Year has won except Everton. Those lost 2 pts could be decisive.

I'm not saying sack him. But in my view at big monents when a clear cool head is needed to make suitable decisions at crucial times he has been found badly wanting.

There is a way of playing with 10 men. It is not defending so deep you are virtually in the car park. 4-4-1 would have kept us solid. Two banks of four and attacking on the break. Sadly, Lampard pooped his trousers and turned into Corporal Jones.

Derek Moore
412 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:04:47
Thank you for the thoughtful response, Shane. You certainly do, in my view, possess what I term intellectual generosity and your reply aptly demonstrated it.

I've just watched one of my favorite Everton YouTube videos. "Are referees trying to relegated (sic) Everton?" is around 20 minutes old.

I mention it only to note that there is a significant proportion of our fanbase now directly speculating on this very subject. This has not been the case for any other season I can recall in my lifetime. I do find that interesting.

Thanks again for your kind response.

Ian Edwards
413 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:05:25
Ed 410. It was when they were on a long losing home run with no fans. He also lost to their youth team.
Danny O’Neill
414 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:08:49
I don't mind different opinions, but you lost me on the "Allardyce was better" quote, Ian. I guess it's down to opinion but we could do a quick check on European League titles in 5 countries and additional trophy count?

Frank Lampard is our manager now.

The rot set in 30 years ago and is a result of how the club has been run, not the sacrificial lambs that have been our countless managers.

Danny O’Neill
415 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:10:35
Ian. If you're there Thursday night, I will buy you a pint. Meet me.
Robert Tressell
416 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:10:44
Shane # 391, if you want real conspiracy theories I've replied to you once and it wasn't published, tried again and got a virus warning and on the third attempt was told the web page no longer existed.

Anyway fourth time lucky.

In essence, we're talking about modern football here which is no stranger to vested interests in very questionable quarters. It is about power and money that goes way beyond sport. It is used for the reputation washing of very powerful individuals and even nations - and there have certainly been strong accusations etc of corruption eg Sepp Blatter.

Earlier in the season, some of the major players wanted to protect their dominance by forming a super league before Newcastle got their new riches.

We were very vocal about this and our resistance made a big difference.

That will not have gone unnoticed.

If we are relegated, we lose our voice on Premier League matters.

We also lose some moral high ground and the ability to argue that we, as ever presents in the Premier League, have just as much a right to Super League status as upstarts like Chelsea and City in particular, neither of whom have been Premier League ever presents. That status gives us a pedigree that, in fairness, other big traditional clubs like Leeds and Villa do not have. Leicester, Blackburn etc just aren't seen as big traditional old clubs despite spikes of success.

So our relegation would change things as regards the Super League. And it might also be a warning about the non Rich 6 are expected to conduct themselves.

So there's the rationale and motive. In know it won't persuade you but you did ask.

John Hood
417 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:13:04
Please stop worrying about Leeds winning at Brentford. I can assure you that Brentford players, staff and fans will be determined to send them down... this follows a video emerging of some Leeds players mocking Thomas Frank at the end of the season they were promoted.

Typical classless Leeds... with luck, it will come back to bite them.

Rob Dolby
418 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:14:16
Ian. Ancelotti would have defended better with 10 men on the pitch!

The guy who has won the league and countless cups in every major European league is shite! Hard to argue with you on that one.

Hindsight is a great thing: should Lampard have taken off a, b, c or d and replaced them with X, we may have won.

Shane Corcoran
419 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:15:19
Derek and Robert, very well put.

I’ve shifted slightly up the conspiracy spectrum as a result. Add in a dash of naivety on my part and I’m half way there.

See, it’s not about being right, it’s about being informed so, if you think about, I am right after all and I win.

Brent Stephens
420 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:16:43
Danny, thanks for the well wishes for Mrs B. That means a lot. And my best wishes to Mrs Danny.
Derek Moore
421 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:19:19
Robert, you're not our Ashley under a pseudonym are you?

That's almost exactly the same theory my Evertonian older brother has given to me in regards to the decisions going against us this season. I gave a more concise version to Shane C in #400 above.

I also mentioned that this is the first and only season I can recall that such a belief among our fans has become so widely discussed. There will often be a small minority who feel the powers that be are "against us" or "against then". To see this level of traction on the issue though is very interesting.

Shane, you can win every argument with me forever if you can guarantee we win this game on Thursday! (And deliver it!)

Thanks for the humour, we definitely can use a bit more of it right now. Even if objectively there really isn't all that much to laugh about.

Paul Kossoff
422 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:20:17
I won't say it myself, but does anyone realize the historical significance of Thursday night's match at Goodison? Please God is a blue! Coyb.
Brent Stephens
423 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:23:37
Paul #422 "does anyone realize the historical significance of Thursday nights match at Goodison?"

Yes, Thursday is National Chocolate Caramel Day.

Peter Carpenter
424 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:24:22
Thanks John. I'll buy you a beer if you do them.
Robert Tressell
425 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:25:40
Derek # 421. I am not your Ashley. I am your father. Not really.

Before this season I'd have laughed at this sort of stuff because all fans feel hard done by. I've had a turning point this season due to the consistency and circumstances.

Will Mabon
426 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:29:52
Sean @ 378,

I have little more to add to support what I've posted really - other than to say, I've not traditionally been one to overly bleat about bias, beyond match day venting. This season has stood out to me as a little different and so has perhaps more drawn my attention. It's not happened this way before. It's not due to relegation concern as I've been there through that.

I've seen similar to what Brent cites before. They are of course anecdotal in nature - same for ours. I've also seen things going a little deeper, with statistics to support or refute many contentious aspects of decisions.

They never fully address the whole story; context, teams, history, recent "Political" or disciplinary issues, referee, potential league variations, relationships or influences known and unknown.

Now someone may be aware of work done in greater detail in this area that rationalizes further to refute, and indeed imply improved fairness. I'd like to see it if so.

There are though, glaring inadequacies in the current system and its application. Room for error or worse based on the very interpretation and inaccuracy that it was supposed to address. We've all seen examples of this, it happens every week. It needs sorting.

Until then, I guess the current direction of the wind just "Feels" a little different. Bit like they "Felt" Richarlison was doing some shirt-pulling :)

Chris Leyland
427 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:31:06
Ian, you can't have it both ways. Ancelotti was shite cos he lost loads of home games but was also shite because he won lots of away games including our only win against Liverpool at Anfield in over 20 years but that's only because they were shit at the time.

If you blame him for our woeful home form last season then you equally shoud praise him for our away record.

Winning at Anfield, the Emirates, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Wolves amongst others. He had an effective away formula that this season has reverted to type under Benitez and Lampard.

Will Mabon
428 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:34:50
Brent @ 423 :)

Don't eat sweets but I might try on Thursday.

Paul Kossoff
429 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:36:43
Brent 423, thanks mate for cheering me up!
My nerves are shattered my throat raw after Sunday.
God help me Thursday night!
Chris Leyland
430 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:39:08
And despite last year’s woeful home record, our home form is only 4 points better than last season but we are 27 points worse off on our away form than last season.
Brian Wilkinson
431 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:39:48
Danny, are you calling in The Oak before the game Thursday, if so will catch you in there, likewise Bill G, Dave P, Derek K, Steve V, and any others.

I will make sure I call at the cash machine this time, with The Oak not accepting card payments.

Jim Wilson
432 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:43:21
Robert @ 382 - totally agree with you. We only need to compare the big decisions that have gone against us and the ones that have gone in Liverpool's favour.

But what goes unnoticed are all the little decisions that constantly go against you, a small foul not given, a fair challenge given as a foul etc. The game can be completely changed because of this.

The Mane gouging in the derby going unpunished after the event tells us all what we need to know. Wink wink!

Will Mabon
433 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:46:02
"...with The Oak not accepting card payments."

Good on them.

Ian Edwards
434 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:51:27
Chris 427. The form after the derby win was generally poor both home and away. 3 wins in the last 13 matches.
Ian Edwards
435 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:53:19
Rob 418. I'm not interested in what Noplancelotti did in other countries. In this one he was crap.
Will Mabon
436 Posted 16/05/2022 at 20:59:34
John @ 417:

Thanks for your continued support.

Please gather some fans together, buy smoke flares and a shed full of fireworks, then find Leeds' hotel.

Ernie Baywood
437 Posted 16/05/2022 at 21:09:21
Clarifying the Branthwaite red card. It's absolutely a red card.

The deliberate or reckless but only matters if it's in the penalty area. If it was a penalty then Branthwaite wouldn't have been sent of as that would be a double punishment. That rule came in a few years ago. It wasn't deliberate but it was a foul and prevented a goal scoring opportunity. Red card.

As for VAR, we were stiffed on the Allan sending off. The ref saw the challenge, judged it, and yet VAR re-reffed the game. That's completely against it's own rules.

Whereas we've been on the wrong end of its implementation in the City, Liverpool and Brentford games. It's not there to make the correct decision. That's just a fact. The ref makes an interpretation of those decisions and VAR goes with them. That's what VAR does. My problem with that is that the refs aren't making big decisions because they have VAR.

I don't watch other teams. I read social media comments saying that VAR is the same for everyone.

If that's true, and it's producing these kind of outcomes, then why has it not been canned yet? It's a system that isn't making correct decisions - and they very easily could. If they sent the ref to the screen in all those instances then the ref would award a penalty without any doubt in my mind.

So why is it still here?

Graeme Beresford
438 Posted 16/05/2022 at 21:11:09
I don't think there's a conspiracy theory. That's because that's based on theory. What if it's actually based on facts?

The facts are there have been too many decisions this season that either haven't gone for us or have gone against us. Only afterwards, when everyone analyses the games does everyone go “Actually…. That was a pen or handball” etc etc.

I have said for ages something isn't right and I would send an independent body in to the refs asap to check their communications as there is something very fishy about what's been happening. It's not theory, it's fact.

Anyway, onto Thursday. I have taken the day off work. I have my ticket, I have my flares, I have my scarf, I have my voice… by God, I plan to be heard.

Let's give them hell. Let's all stand for the 90 minutes, let's make the place bounce, let's get behind the boys, and let's get a win, and everyone get out afterwards and have a cold bloody pint or two!!!

COYB!!!!!!!!!!! Time to just get it done!

Chris Leyland
439 Posted 16/05/2022 at 21:11:36
Ian, true but the away form over the whole season was the 4th best in the league. If we'd managed just half of the away points tally from last season this season, plus repeated last season's woeful home form, we'd be safe from relegation by now.
Will Mabon
440 Posted 16/05/2022 at 21:31:59
Graeme, if you're off work and don't need to be up early, you could join the Hotel Hunters the night before, for the early hours firework party.

Apparently Palace are now staying out of town somewhere to avoid the fun. Ungrateful if you ask me, those guys go to great trouble and expense to put on those displays.

Phil Lewis
441 Posted 16/05/2022 at 21:56:54
John #417,

It may well be the case that Brentford players, staff and fans would be happy for Leeds to go down. But equally it could be said that the swamp life masquerading as Evertonians who racially abused members of Brentford players' families on Sunday have caused them quite justifiably to feel the same way about us.

Graeme Beresford
442 Posted 16/05/2022 at 21:57:53
Will, what you reckon? Surly if they are staying out of town but still somewhere close…. I’m shouting Formby Hall???
Christy Ring
443 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:09:41
I see the Arsenal team are totally dejected, Spurs only need a draw away to Norwich for 4th, hopefully we'll be going there on a high.
Will Mabon
444 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:26:42
I think up the coast that way, Graeme, so that could be a shout. Seems more of the teams are tight-wadding it in some of the chains now though – used to be straight into the top places at one time. Never included free fireworks though.

Second thoughts – coming up from the south, they may sneak onto the Wirral. Get your boots on, Lad!

Peter Carpenter
445 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:42:47
WiIl, I've heard it's the Premier Inn, Watford.
Allen Rodgers
446 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:48:11
Why do Crystal Palace need to travel the day before for a 7:45 pm kick-off?
Will Mabon
447 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:54:04
Allen, they don't have to but often do.

Peter - that's one of those statements that could be either a joke or entirely true...!

Bernie Quinn
448 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:54:57
As these comments pour in, it is clear that we are worried sick (me too) on how the season will end. Who is to blame for the position we are in? The Players? All our Managers? Injuries? FFP? Match Officials? Everton Boardroom? I think it is a combination of all.

But I feel this malaise started way back when Sky formed The Premier League. Television joined in and money took over as the most important thing. To hell with sport - it is a business and the richer the club, the more the media supports it.

If only the clock could be turned back to when football was a game, and players were loyal to the club.

I know, I'm rambling… this last month or so has worn me down. I love Everton but, like Christine and others, I'm tired and need sleep. I am still ill and wish this season was already over. Please, Everton, do us all a big favour and make sure we win on Thursday... please!

Will Mabon
449 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:58:13
Bernie, maybe one day after the season's over, there could be a thread about all that. There'd be massive posts though, it's a big subject.
Jerome Shields
450 Posted 16/05/2022 at 23:07:54
Brent #372,

Yes we do. Where they are going on holidays. Any training video, you would think no-one has a care in the world.


Gerald #386

It is as if a game plan was decided before the game by Everton that ignored the way the other team played. Another way of putting it is we will do our thing and not worry about them. With the sending off, there was a cobbling together of the players available to keep the same plan going. This continued right till the end of the game. The subs were to maintain the plan, not to address the problems a 10- or 9-man Everton where facing.

I don't think the players are allowed the initiative to adapt their play, to do as Peter Reid would have done regarding Eriksen. A toe in to spoil Eriksen's play would have been sufficient. Instead, Eriksen was allowed to orchestrate the game. Sticking to the Plan is a form of rigidity similar to what Ancelotti put in place to compensate for poor tactical and technical ability.

Frank's style is open attacking football with a high press, but the press is inconsistent. In the Watford game, against a team of some players on trial, it was non-existent. To do imo the necessary changes to defence you suggested would have changed the plan. Both Kenny and Allan in particular should have been on at the start of the second half as suggested.

As for Gomes, he was selected on his performance against Brentford the last time. He was given the freedom of the park that game and was exposed in the next two games. Eriksen just waltzed through the midfield.

Defending at set-pieces is woefully organised, but now we know that analysis of an opposition team's set-piece tactics is non-existent. It could also be that those that are coaching for set-pieces have not got a clue.

The one point in the first Leciester game could prove crucial, as a lot thought at the time.

Brian Wilkinson
451 Posted 16/05/2022 at 23:27:10
Will @440,

I doubt that will stop them. Wimbledon booked in to a hotel in Daresbury, Warrington, in 1994. It did not stop their kit going up in smoke, on their team coach.

Christine Foster
452 Posted 16/05/2022 at 23:37:37
Bernie @448,

I had a good sleep, spent yesterday decorating (badly) but still have a flatness of spirit and, like you, it's not doing my health any favours! But take it easy, no matter what happens, post- season is only a matter of days away!

Regarding inquests and reasons, I have tried really hard to stick by the comments I made about a month or two ago, that what is required is full-on support for the team and manager until we get this successfully over the line (and we will). After the season ends, the gloves are off.

This is my club. I love it more than many people I know (even some family! lol). It has been shredded by incompetence that goes back 20 years – not just the last few managers.

We have an owner who has poured money in, a recruitment policy for managers and players that is at best naive, at worse incompetence. Players (so many of them) who should never have been bought in the fast 5 years, managers who should never have been appointed, incompetent financial management that has shackled the club's ability to sign players, the appointment of a manager from the other side that drove nails into a fanbase.

So, right now is not the time to even contemplate the above; Palace first, Arsenal next. But the truth is laid out for all to see.

Moshiri has been absent in recent times, giving fuel to the embers that he is intent on selling the club. I hope he does, not because he hasn't tried, but because he failed. We need a real clearout, not just a pampering to keyboard warriors (self included, I suppose).

But right now, I am 150% behind the team, no matter who is playing, no matter what shape or how frustrating it is, the result right now is bigger than any player or manager.

How we achieve it is with full voice at Goodison, full-on aggresion and commitment. Nothing else matters.

Hang in there, Bernie... better days are coming!

Dave Lynch
453 Posted 16/05/2022 at 23:55:03
I don't get this "Blame Moshiri" stance.

He had to have been taking advice from so-called experts, Bill included; he stumped up a massive amount of money that's been spunked up the wall by incompetent managers (Silva not included, because I'm convinced he would have turned us around).

He may be to blame for Benitez but someone must have gotten into his ear over him.

Bernie Quinn
454 Posted 17/05/2022 at 00:42:03
Christine @152,

Thanks, love, for your very welcome reply. Glad to read you managed a good sleep and returned to your housework. I wish I could cover subjects the way you do and I always seem to be in full agreement.

Looking at the possibilities over the next few days, I think the odds are in our favour, but still… Once in the close season, I hope Kenwright retires and a big clean-up takes place.

I do hope Frank remains as manager and builds a new team; he has a reasonable amount of good young players to help him.

Meanwhile, like you and Danny, I don't care who turns out for us on Thursday – just WIN!

Brian Wilkinson
455 Posted 17/05/2022 at 01:13:23
Could the forgotten striker step out of the wilderness, come off the bench and net the winner? It is over to you, Cenk Tosun, to sign off Goodison on good terms, that's if you get more than a 5-minute run out.

Thursday is crying out for someone to be a hero, a Barry Horne, a Gareth Farrelly, some unlikely unexpected hero. It would be ironic after the pasting Keane and Iwobi got most of this season, if it turns out that one of the two netted a goal.

An unlikely hero is going to make his mark Thursday… Keane? Iwobi? Tosun? Or even Davies? I can feel it in my water.

Bill Watson
456 Posted 17/05/2022 at 01:36:55
Gerard #386

I totally agree. What finally cost us the game was Lampard's poor decision-making or, more to the point, lack of decision-making until we were behind. The same thing happened at Burnley and also cost us two points at Watford.

It was totally preventable. Super Frankie Lampard? My left foot.

Anthony O’Brien
457 Posted 17/05/2022 at 02:23:40
This team of ours is woeful. Just cause we picked up a few wins these last few weeks, it doesn't change that fact. Case in point with our performances v Watford and yesterday v Brentford.

We can't keep blaming the VAR and match officials for our mistakes and poor play. Alrite, I agree we have had some poor calls but so have most other clubs bar the Top 4. The VAR is so inconsistent and needs to be scrapped asap.

I don't think the shirt pull on Richarlison was enough to warrant a penalty, to be honest. You would be giving penalties left, right and centre if that was the case – if it happened at our end and it was given, we would be outraged.

The game today has gone soft as shit with players' antics, rolling around on-field trying to con referees, and we have one of them. Maybe one of the reasons there was no call was that it was on Richarlison who is constantly going to the ground waving his hands around trying to win fouls. He is the most frustrating over-rated annoying player to watch – and I'm an Everton fan.

Praying we do the business on Thursday v Palace but I'm not confident with injuries and suspensions piling up.

Steve Brown
458 Posted 17/05/2022 at 04:43:36
Ian @ 435, good to see you at least consistent in the utter bollocks you spouted about Ancelotti last season. It must be painful for you to see him win La Liga and get to the final of the Champions League.

As for him being crap in this country; do you mean short of winning the Premier League with Chelsea?

Graeme Beresford
459 Posted 17/05/2022 at 06:00:37
Anthony @ 457

You see, I don’t get that comment. I saw this watching tv, I knew immediately it was a penalty. Not because it was ‘bad’ or ‘a horrible tackle’ but simply because it’s a foul.

Taken from the FA;

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following offences:
holds an opponent
spits at an opponent
Slides in an attempt to play the ball when it is being played or attempted to be played by an opponent (sliding tackle).
handles the ball deliberately, except for the goalkeeper in his own penalty area
A direct free kick is taken from the place where the infringement occurred.
Penalty Kick
A penalty kick is awarded if a player commits any of the aforementioned offences inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball but provided that it is in play.

Therefore, holding, is holding a players shirt, it’s a clear foul.

What I have also found interesting is that the penalty given, their rule is below;

From the FA;

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.

Richarlison is technically denied a goal scoring opportunity here as the defender drags him down. Does the defender attempt to play the ball? I don’t think he does? Do we have a case for a straight red card? There was a covering defender, who actually fouled Richarlison aswell btw, however it doesn’t matter because the player according to their law should be cautioned, second yellow.

Again, nothing given. And people want to close their eyes to the obvious agenda from the league.

It will be the same against Palace. Anthony Taylor. The same Anthony Taylor who didn’t send off Shelvey at Newcastle in a tackle which many called a disgrace on Anthony Gordon.

I’ve seen too many decisions this year to not be convinced there’s something not right. Mason Holgate slide tackled a fella at Watford the other night and got booked for absolutely nothing yet I watched Fabinho for Liverpool make 4 mistimed tackles before he went off injured and not one of them he was booked for. Completely fixed.

Nick Bower
461 Posted 17/05/2022 at 08:43:31
The scary thing is that by Sunday, we could be rooting for this Brentford defence, who are clearly capable of being red-carded at any moment.
Rob Halligan
462 Posted 17/05/2022 at 09:05:02
Anthony, #457. You talk about soft penalties.Have you seen the penalty the RS were awarded in their home game against Watford a few weeks ago. I think it came from a corner when one of their players was alleged to have been tussled to the ground by a Watford defender. Nobody saw it or even appealed for a penalty, the players, the crowd, the referee….Nobody saw it!! Yet the Hawkeye down at Stockley Park must have scrutinised it from every possible angle before recommending the referee take a look on the pitch side monitor. Didn’t take him long to award the penalty!

How about the one they were awarded down at Palace, when Jota had ran the ball out of play, so decided to lean into the palace goalkeeper and went down. Again VAR recommend a penalty and send the referee to the pitch side monitor.

That on Richarlison was a stonewall penalty. The defender nearly had Richarlisons shirt up round his neck. I’m surprised it didn’t rip, he had holding it and pulling it that long.

George Stuart
463 Posted 17/05/2022 at 09:44:47
Trust in the players. They will do the right thing. Digging deep to get the result they deserve. No slacking off, they will go for the win.

Brentford that is.

Our lot ??? I really don't know. Some of the kids are fairly blameless. A precious few of the seasoned professionals.

If my calculations are correct, if Spurs draw their last game, Arsenal would have to win by 8 goals to get Champions League football.

Their incentive in the second half Monday could be very low if Spurs are well up on Norwich. This is a very slim thread to base a season upon.

Bill Fairfield
464 Posted 17/05/2022 at 10:14:12
Sunday night we will know our fate. Just hope Moshiri has a plan to replace the current board. Surely he can't plod on with Kenwright and Co.
Peter Carpenter
465 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:10:35
Bill, we will know our fate on Thursday night. Beginning my positivity loading now.
Tony Everan
466 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:14:37
Exactly, Rob,

I haven't seen any evidence at all that Richarlison was also pulling Ajer's shirt. The referee and the VAR excuse was that they ‘felt' he was. No evidence of it! No proof! – just a feeling. Whilst there is clear and obvious evidence that Richarlison is getting his shirt pulled off his back.

I don't understand the decision making when how referees feel about something get precedence over the clear and obvious facts of a situation.

The whole issue of when the VAR intervenes and when it doesn't is a total inconsistent mess. Some fouls are overlooked, others aren't, they pick and chose. Games are being won and lost at their whim.

Graeme Beresford
467 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:18:33

What more does there have to be? I’m telling you what… you have to throw your legs out behind you and dive… however when we did that against Liverpool, the darlings of the league, we were criticised by the media from all angles. Again, if that’s Salah yesterday he gets that penalty because Salah’s arms would of been up in the air and he would of dropped to his knee’s.

What I don’t get is the clear and obvious thing. So VAR has said ‘if the penalty was given it wouldn’t of been overturned’, does that not mean it was a clear and obvious error from the referee not to award the penalty in the first place? Because to me it is. The play should of been brought back for a pen and Braithwaite’s sending off over turned. Let’s add it to this list of this season;

- no red card for Tarkowski against Richarlison at home. Knee high tackle that didn’t even get a booking.
https://youtu.be/uc5SImFBWpg
This was at 0-0
Game finished 3-1 to Everton

-no red card for Shelvey two footed tackle on a Gordon away at Newcastle. Got booked, however this was a red card.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/jonjo-shelvey-newcastle-star-should-get-extended-ban-after-everton-footage-analysed-ex-fifa-official/?amp
This was at 0-0
Game finished 3-1 to Newcastle

-another 35 seconds added onto injury time allowing Villa to take and score a corner. I get another ten or 15 seconds but another half a minute, never.
https://youtu.be/LnoyHIdS_e4
This was at 0-0
Game finished 0-1 to Villa

-Tottenham at home. Richarlison takes the around the goalkeeper. Hugo Lloris clatters I to him, the referee gives a penalty. VAR tells the ref to goto the monitor as Lloris could of got a finger tip to the ball. Even watching the replays to this day I cannot see whether the ball is knocked around Lloris by Richarlison or Lloris get a finger to it. Clear and obvious mistake by the ref? No it isn’t. However this decision is overturned by the ref. What’s worse is that the ref blew for the penalty when the ball was still in play. Everton attacking. The penalty was reverse and Spurs given a drop ball.
https://youtu.be/38IypC698fc

Also, in this game Mason Holgate won the ball cleanly in an tackle which he followed through on the opponent. Realistically, it was a yellow card, this is what was given. However, VAR instructed the ref to look at the decision, which was adjudged as serious foul play resulting in a straight red card for Holgate. How this tackle was any different from James Tarkowski? Insane.
This was at 0-0 and the game finished 0-0.

-Brentford away. Ball is crossed in. Rondon can’t make any sort of attempt to play the ball as the defender has hold of his shirt. To the point were Rondon’s stomach is visible as half of his shirt is being pulled towards the defender. This wasn’t given on the field, nor did VAR intervene and award a penalty. This was after Brentford themselves had been awarded a penalty which they scored.
https://wittyfutty.com/2021/11/video-rondon-with-a-clear-penalty-appeal-vs-brentford/?amp
This was at 1-0 and that’s how it finished, 1-0 to Brentford

-Southampton away. 0-0 game has just begun. Everton on the attack, Townsend crosses the ball, Romeu moves his arm towards the ball. This is a penalty decision which VAR looked at and decided this was not worthy of a penalty.
https://youtu.be/A0Q_8M_jsOI
This was at 0-0 and Southampton went on to win 2-0.

-Manchester City at home.
This one, is ridiculous. A decision which was criticised by every pundit and media outlet. Everton loosing by one goal in the 84th minute. Richarlison shoots and the ball bounces up off the keeper. Idiotically Rodri moves his arm towards the ball and controls the ball with his arm. This penalty is the definition of the term ‘stonewaller’. Everton players’ reactions are for all to see. They sprint to the referee as it would seem the referee never saw the incident as no penalty was awarded. VAR then looked at the on field decision and shockingly did not advise the referee to go to the monitor. A crazy decision which completely made a mockery of VAR and how it is used. This incident drew an apology from the football association and head of the referees Mike Riley.

https://youtu.be/OUtYjxDgplk
This match finished 0-1, with Manchester City taking all three points.

-Newcastle at home.
At 0-0, a tense game, neither team want to lose. With around ten minutes left Allan tactically and cynically fouls Saint-Maximan. It’s not a good tackle however it is a tackle you see in most Premier League games. Newcastle are about to counter attack and Allan has no choice other than to foul. Allan clips ASM foot and a yellow card is given. Up steps the VAR. They recommend to goto the monitor as this may be violent contact. The referee agrees and rescind’s the yellow brandishing a straight red card. This kind of tackle happens in most games. This was not a dangerous tackle. It was not an ankle/leg beaker, yet this was deemed a poor tackle and straight red card.

https://youtu.be/zQDLyFZWEEc
This game finished 1-0 to Everton. However this resulted in a three match suspension for Allan.

-Liverpool away.
Three incidents in this game which need to be spoken about.
1. Anthony Gordon, at 0-0 is running in Liverpool’s box. Keita sticks out a leg which stops Gordon getting to the ball which he has knocked around him. Gordon, quite dramatically throws his legs high, however there is no doubt the leg movement stops Gordon, however no penalty is awarded and instead Gordon is booked for diving.
https://youtu.be/FP1ZrfDsjv0


2. At half time the players come together in a melee in the middle of the field. During this, Sadio Mane raises his hand towards Allan’s face, pushing him away, this should be classed as violent conduct as you are simply not allowed to aggressively push somebody in the face. Assuming this is actually what Mane was booked for, he was lucky not to get a straight red card for this incident, however he was booked. Incredibly less than ten seconds later he did it again. Mason Holgate gives Mane a push and Mane put his finger on Holgates face, thrusting it upwards towards his eye. As this was missed by the referee and VAR are not allowed to intervene for a yellow card decision, no action was taken by the ref and Mane remained on the pitch.

https://youtu.be/R9iVzugEGGo

3. To me, the most incredible decision during this game. Anthony Gordon is away, he’s in the box and Joel Matip is chasing him. Not too dissimilar to Jared Braithwaite’s red card against Brentford. The defender is behind him, he catches Gordon’s leg and pushes him in the back. Looking back, not only is this an awful decision not to award a penalty but this could of potentially been a red card for the defender as the last man. This decision at 0-0 with the game having 40 minutes remaining potentially gives Everton the lead and something to hang on for. Instead, nothing given, and no VAR intervention.

https://youtu.be/ILOhlC0LtGA

These three major decisions cost Everton any opportunity to steal a win or nick a point. Instead Everton lost this game 2-0. Also, on the point of Anthony Gordon diving for his first penalty decision. I am still under the impression that it is simply not upto Gordon to get over and or out of the way of a trailing leg. How is this any different for Kenny’s sending off against Wolves at home. He leaves a leg in which Raul Jiminez made the most of, dived, and screamed in apparent agony. I am still convinced there is zero contact however the referee brandished a second yellow and sent Kenny off. Look for yourselves; skip to 2:56.

https://youtu.be/DOhpdDAPCsU

-Brentford at home.
The most recent and the most fresh incident. Everton are winning 1-0 in this pivotal game, a win secures Everton’s Premier League survival. Up steps Michael Oliver. Richarlison in the opponents box is battling with a Brentford defender. This defender pulls Richarlison’s shirt, again much like Brentford away, the shirt is almost clean off. Michael Oliver only about 4 yards away deems this action completely legal by the letter of the law and nothing is given. Low and behold the ball gets kicked long catching Jared Braithwaite out of position. Ivan Toney very cleverly runs ahead of him, feels contact, or rather draws contact and Everton are reduced to ten men. This whole scenario should of been rectified by a VAR review which should of found the Brentford player guilt of a clean shirt grab. This would of resulted in a penalty for Everton, thus a reprieve on the red card. However, if would seem this ‘tackle’ was similar to Joel Matip against Anthony Gordon at Anfield, yet only one of these was perceived a foul, and a red card.

https://youtu.be/PtU4kyCcSGg

Also, probably in the sense of fairness Michael Oliver decided to then award us a penalty. Now, this was a foul, however this was in my opinion less of a foul than the shirt pull. Everton receive the penalty and yet the central Brentford defender is not booked for this foul. He is not booked as this would of been his second bookable offence and he would of been sent off. Yet another awful mistake which has ultimately cost Everton.

https://youtu.be/JOyUPBUgXsE

Everton went on to lose this game 2-3.

Let’s have it correct, we have been terrible all season. But let’s also have it correct, we have been at the end of some really poor decisions this season. VAR was supposedly brought it to help referee’s. With so much going on I completely understand why a ref would need some assistance. However it would seem that VAR has its flaws aswell, so who is managing them? Who is at fault if the referee and VAR get the decision incorrrect? Do the referees have an agenda. Again, let’s look at the ref’s and VAR during these poor decisions.

Everton vs Burnley - ref, Martin Atkinson, VAR, Kevin Friend

Newcastle vs Everton - ref, Anthony Taylor, VAR, Chris Kavanagh

Everton vs Aston Villa - ref, Craig Pawson, VAR, John Brooks

Everton vs Tottenham - ref, Chris Kavanagh, VAR, John Moss

Brentford vs Everton, ref, John Brooks, VAR, John Moss

Southampton vs Everton, ref, Andy Madley, VAR, Andre Marriner

Everton vs Man City, ref, Paul Tierney, VAR, Chris Kavanagh

Everton vs Newcastle, ref, Craig Pawson, VAR, Stuart Attwell

Liverpool vs Everton, ref, Stuart Attwell, VAR, Darren England

Everton vs Brentford, ref, Michael Oliver, VAR, Darren England

Mark Ryan
468 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:30:41
Bill @ 464, you say we shouldn't plod on with Kenwright & Co... why? We've had some good times, haven't we... lol.

Graeme B @ 467, you should send this to the club officials to pass on to the FA, good work. 👍

Peter Carpenter
469 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:34:36
And yet Graeme, in spite of all of this, we beat Palace and stay up.
Lee Robinson
470 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:37:01
This end to the season has got defeat to Palace on Thursday written all over it. Going into the last day and getting beaten by Arsenal and surviving because Leeds or Burnley can only muster a draw, staying up by the skin of our teeth.

Dreading it.

Danny O’Neill
471 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:40:44
Clear and obvious is a load of rubbish.

I was going to use a stronger word but John Senior has already told me off once this week for slipping into the language gutter, so I am in debt for a Guiness already.

If there is an infringement or a foul, then it's a foul. Use the technology, don't be afraid of it. They should also use it to call out those who go down as if they have been hit by a Stalingrad sniper.

Football has massively screwed the VAR up. It could have been a solution to the incompetence we've seen over fhe years but it's actually starting to expose it more. No matter what, they hide behind the protective screen and silently refuse to be accountable. In Liverpool, that's called being a shithouse.

I managed 4 hours sleep last night. The poor boy was stood looking at me in the kitchen with concerning eyes.

Until I took his lead off the bannister.

Calma. Breathe.

Brian W, I don't know if it was here or on a different post, but I'll let you know about The Oak. Cash. Must remember cash. This contactless thing is way to convenient. Glad it wasn't around when I was younger.

Mark Ryan
472 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:44:24
We have to win on Thursday night, no ifs no buts. Most important game in our recent history. Survival is then guaranteed. Draw or lose is not an option. UTFTs!

I want to see Calvert-Lewin run his bollocks off for once. I want to see clean tackles all over the pitch. I want to see every player die for the shirt. If we win 1-0, happy days... UTFTs

Lee Robinson
473 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:52:56
Graeme #467 – Well put together piece and agree with all of the instances.

One that never gets much comment for me is Southampton's first goal away in the 2-0 defeat. Andre Gomes gets taken out, the player smashes into him without taking any of the ball, and they go up and score.

Andre doesn't see the player closing him down and, at first glance, looks like he gets robbed but he get's taken out. This to me should have been checked by the VAR. Many goals have been cancelled over the season due to this, I think Leicester's winner at Old Trafford not long ago was chalked off for something quite similar.

Also, with Branthwaite's sending off, Toney knows what he is doing, runs in his path and drops like a stone. It is no different to Gordon's at Anfield, if anything, Gordon's is more clear cut. Liverpool down to 10 men and a penalty.

Colin Malone
474 Posted 17/05/2022 at 11:54:32
Where have Dobbin and El Ghazi gone? Surely El Ghazi is a better option than Gray?

Frank's formation isn't working. The workload is falling on the two midfielders because the wingers, Gordon and Gray are not good enough, especially when we are not in possession of the ball.

Peter Carpenter
475 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:00:05
I have a mental picture of Stockley Park. It's a scene from Father Ted. Ted rings Bishop Brennan who is at a conference in Rome. There is loud music playing, disco lights flashing, bishops dancing, booze is flowing.

"Hey, Dean," shouts Atwell above the noise, "Turn the music down. It's Oliver calling from Goodison."

The bishops/referees all fall about in uncontrollable laughter.

Graham Hammond
476 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:12:58
Mark Ryan #472.

Very sorry to say, but Calvert-Lewin will not 'run his bollocks off for Everton' as he never has at any point in the past, either before or after his injury troubles this season.

James Vaughan, yes, Richarlison, yes, Seamus Coleman, yes, even Alex Iwobi, but not Calvert-Lewin, he is not a team player sadly.

Rob Dolby
477 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:24:04
Peter 475. Lol I bet it's not far off.

Did you see that Ted, see what Dougal. Was it a foul Ted, no it was a sheep Dougal.

Let's go to father Jack for confirmation!!

Tom Bowers
478 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:24:13
Have to agree the officiating even with VAR is still awful.

Yes, the Branthwaite sending off was correct but so many other incidents missed by incompetence. Wouldn't have happened at Anfield, right!

I also think this current version of the offside flag is ludicrous. Why the hell does the flag not go up immediately? Who's boneheaded idea was that to let players waste their time and energy when they were offside 30 yards back.

I still think there should be clear daylight between players before it is flagged. Too many 50/50 decisions.

The league needs to get it's act together.

Graham Hammond
479 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:28:16
Great work and great comments from Graeme Beresford above. Sadly I do not have the skill or the fortitude to write posts like that but massive respect for you for highlighting some of the injustices.

Anthony Taylor has been put on the game along with Mike Dean, if there is a God it really is time he showed himself, the bias has to finally stop on Thursday night.

Kevin Molloy
480 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:30:49
I've just watched that post interview chat with Calvert-Lewin smiling about claiming that goal. Christ, it's hard supporting this current crop.

Our chap couldn't give a rat's arse. I really wouldn't play this fellow on Thursday. Put Richarlison up front and start El Ghazi or Gray on the wing.

Nick Page
481 Posted 17/05/2022 at 12:58:26
Greame Bereaford @467 great post!!! We should compile all of these into a book, all the way back to Clive Thomas.

The funniest thing is the Red Shite think they're a hard done-by bunch. Winning two cups on penalties is just normal for them as is not conceding a penalty for 18 months and averaging a red card every 43 games. If any team, anywhere, in any sport in history is not hard done-by, it's them. But try arguing that point with them….it's like talking to a halfwit.

On to Thursday – absolutely 100% guaranteed the footballing Gods, who hate us for some reason, will push us to the last game of the season. It should have been done by Watford but the events from the weekend tell you everything you need to know. We're definitely an unlucky club and I don't buy that bollocks that you make your own luck. COYB

Mark Ryan
482 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:13:29
Graham @ 476 agreed about Calvert-Lewin. It would be good to see him run himself into the ground just for once but I think his eye is on another prize. I'd play Alli as a false 9 rather than see Calvert-Lewin, to be honest.
Anthony Murphy
483 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:18:54
I fear that when we reflect on this season we will be talking about injustice, VAR, poor referees and injuries – unfortunately, no-one outside of the Everton family will give a shit.

Bill Fairfield
485 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:21:49
Peter @465.

I really hope and pray that you're right and we get that positive result on Thursday. What a relief.

Johan Elmgren
486 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:26:18
Graeme #467, great compilation and that should go public to emphasise the vastly incompetent (biased/corrupt?) pool of officials in the league.

Lee #473 I thought exactly the same in that So'ton-game, Gomes should've had a freekick. The So'ton-player takes him out completely without getting anything on the ball. Free-kick all day, and all night long for me... If the ref doesn't see it, VAR should have intervened... You can add that one to the list, Graeme...

Another thing I've been thinking about is the Branthwaite red card. I don't know the laws on the game in that particular scenario to the letter, but I would be stunned if that is always deemed a red card. I mean it is purely accidental, there's no intent from Branthwaite, it's a coming-together...

And the most important aspect is that Toney isn't even in possession of the ball. The ball is high up in the air and bounces high again on the rebound. Toney doesn't have control over it. How can you judge that to be "denial of goalscoring opportunity"?

Like I said, I don't know the rules regarding that, that well, but I'm pretty sure, if that had been Saint Virgil, it would have been deemed a "coming-together".

It's quite astonishing the amount of bad calls that have come our way this season. I don't think it's a conspiracy, I don't want to think that. I definitely feel the refs are favouring the top teams, though...

But when that question, "Is it a conspiracy" starts popping into people's heads and there's a discussion that maybe it is, one can tell the officiating is really, utterly awful. No fire without smoke... Like Frank said, "incompetence at best..."

Graeme Beresford
487 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:27:42
Lee @473,

Honestly mate I completely forgot about this however when I've watched it back I recall being incensed at that decision. I remember Gomes being barged into and I remember saying to my dad, “How is that not a foul?”

But again it's another one for the list. There's more of them out there as well. I seem to remember a pull by Konsa in the Villa game. But I've no doubt I'm missing more. My only concern is that Anthony Taylor may be the latest one on a Thursday evening. Let's see who he sends off or gives a dodgy decision to. Once we are down, they will all no doubt have a toast and be in their ref's WhatsApp group saying ‘We did it', they will have all contributed.

It's the lack of fairness for me. How can a foul and a red card one week not be a foul or red card a week later? How can the VAR ask for a review one week then not a week later?

There's been too many this season and I'm sick to death of people saying ‘I don't believe in conspiracy theories' – that's why I wrote all of that. Simply because as I've said earlier…. It can't be a conspiracy theory if it's a fact. The facts are all of those decisions have gone against us. Fact.

Ken Kneale
488 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:32:15
Graeme. What research. I agree you need to circulate this to the club, the Premier League and the referees association
Martin Mason
489 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:32:58
Graeme @467,

Very good and well researched post. I can't remember them all or check them but I trust your correctness.

Rob Dolby
490 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:34:50
Nick 481,

Appoint winners with a winning mentality and watch us turn into a lucky club.

Since Joe Royal left we have been a stop gap for mercenaries happy to cheat a living with the odd exceptions. Kenwright included.

Martin Mason
491 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:40:06
From every article, I can see Richarlison will be gone in summer. He's one of my favourite Everton players ever in one of the worst Everton teams I've seen since starting watching in the late '50s.

Losing Pickford, possibly the best goalie in the world and as good as any I have ever seen, also seems inevitable?

We're back to being very poor now and Moshiri can offer us nothing except finding a good buyer. Hopefully the new owners will offer a root-and-branch reform of the club

Soren Moyer
492 Posted 17/05/2022 at 13:45:49
Give me the dogs of war anytime.
Jamie Crowley
494 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:10:15
I've noticed something this season.

Every time we think we "should" win or half expect to, we shit the bed.

Multiple times we think we don't have a snowball's chance in hell, we come up big. Leicester, Chelsea, Newcastle down to 10 men, etc.

I don't see many people overly positive about Thursday, and many fearful or downright negative.

Perhaps this is a good thing?

^^ This is what I've been reduced to. Lord above.

Jamie Crowley
495 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:14:03
I've already cried off work on Thursday as well. Kick-off is around 3 pm, there or thereabouts, here in Florida.

I plan on being hammered when the final whistle blows. Celebration or drowning misery, matters not.

I really don't too often rely on booze being a crutch. It's not a healthy lifestyle obviously. But Thursday? I think the only way through is self-medication.

Geoff Cadman
496 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:21:47
Graeme #467& 487,

Great posts that really highlight the blatant wrong calls we have received this season.

Going back to Gordon's yellow in the derby, when Attwell blew up, he appeared to point to the spot before he produced the yellow card. Is it normal to blow up for simulation? Should the game not continue until there's a break in play before booking the guilty player, or was it another mistake that's been covered up? Most people feel it wasn't a spot kick or a yellow card.

I also thought Toney caused the contact with Branthwaite. It was claimed several times on Ref Watch that he was in control of the ball, I know he was favourite to reach it, but at no point did he touch or control it.

I too feel the Premier League would like to see the back of us due to FFP; if we go down, they don't have to make a decision and the problem goes away.

Bill Gall
497 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:26:51
Let's stop complaining about what should have happened and look at what did happen. Branthwaite was sent off after 18 minutes. That left 27 minutes in that half and we continued to attack. That led to a penalty and we were ahead at half-time. You could guarantee that Brentford were going to bring on an extra attacker or midfielder to press their numerical advantage for the second half.

Lampard's answer to this was just play deeper with no changes to a team that he expected to be put under more pressure after losing a central defender, so surely it would have been better as you were ahead to have brought on an extra defender in place of an attacker.

I may be in the minority in this but I thought the length of time he took to bring on substitutions was too long, he should have brought on his substitutions earlier to bring fresh legs on.

I don't want to pick on individual players but Anthony Gordon, who has been a breath of fresh air this season, was exhausted, and this can be seen with their 3rd goal.

Going on the display before the sending off, we had enough quality that should give us the 3 points on Thursday but, as other supporters have said, this club needs a clean-out, starting at the top.

Danny O’Neill
498 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:27:17
Right now Soren, I'll give you that one, but in better circumstances and a different time, not for me. So not any time, maybe just on Thursday or, God forbid, Sunday.

They weren't good enough for what I want.

Give me the Brian Labone, Alex Young, the Holy Trinity and the 60s teams my dad spoke romantically about when educating me. Give me Sheedy, Steven, Reid, Bracewell (that pass) and Sharp. Give me the Everton teams that won 9 league titles. Give me the Everton team that is going to win the 10th.

I appreciate that hard work is required. But alone, you will just be a Coventry or Wimbledon or Everton dogs of war that win's a Cup in a one off.

You cannot substitute quality or ability.

No dig at you Soren, I just have standards for my club and sadly they let them slip long ago to the point the lost generation now reflect on nearly teams as the bench mark.

We're all allowed a venting pass this week. It's going to be a long one, but lets stay together.

Rob Halligan
499 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:53:15
Graeme # 467. Good post. I did something similar above @ post # 272, although nowhere near as detailed as some of yours, and was told I need to take a break from TW for a few months. God knows what kind of response you will get for your efforts from the person who thinks I should take a break? 😀😀😀
John Boswell
500 Posted 17/05/2022 at 14:56:46
Graeme 467, great post. Every club will have a similar catalogue of dreadful decisions that have harmed them this season. They all should task the Premier League, FA and Referees association to look at ways to improve the situation.

Decisions are clearly not impartial. The referees are biased towards the more wealthy clubs, no doubt about this. I do not believe that this is criminal but simply the way things have evolved.

Last summer's promotion of the European Super League by the richest clubs showed us all, including Fifa and Uefa, that these clubs believe that they should have everything their own way.

I think that match officials should join players and coaches in being interviewed post-match. I also believe that the VAR should be reviewed by a panel of suitably qualified people, a minimum of 3 but always an odd number, majority rules on decision.

I would also like to introduce Fifa officials to the Premier League match days, disrupt the cosiness that seems to exist currently.

On to Thursday night and I hope 1 point will do, a win would be great. If we can field a team fully free from niggles on Sunday, then I believe that we can squeeze another point out of the Arsenal. I just hope that we don't rely on that. Stay safe this summer everyone and roll on next season. COYB

Johan Elmgren
501 Posted 17/05/2022 at 15:00:32
Bill #497 How can one possibly 'stop complaining' when the referrees are costing us points in every other game? Their incompetence have maybe cost us 10 points this season, with those we would have been safe several games ago. There's just no way of 'just accepting that'.

Yes, we have been playing like shit most of the season, and yes, Frank has been making bad calls in games both tactically and with substitutions, but the facts are still there. Those points were "stolen" from us. When we have been playing this bad, that last thing we need are incompetent referrees making things a lot, lot worse, rubbing salt in our wounds...

We actually have it in our own hands, despite playing like shit the whole season and despite those refs robbing us of points.

Jay Harris
502 Posted 17/05/2022 at 15:12:21
I have no doubt there is a bias amongst referees. I don't think it amounts to a conspiracy but we're a soft touch as a club. Our players take it on the chin. Our directors are apathetic and, until Frank, so were our managers, so referees know they are prettty bombproof with decisions.

I agree with Danny though and when I look at City or even Chelsea, I enviously think that should have been us. We were flying high in the '80s and the Premier League should have been our golden opportunity but that is another story that I don't wish to debate right now. All we need is 3 points against Palace.

Derek Moore
503 Posted 17/05/2022 at 15:18:14
Alcohol is your friend Jamie, (#495) and I speak from experience.

It'll make you happier when we win. It will comfort you if the powers to be decide we are to lose.

Get loaded and then confront reality. It makes much more sense that way than if you decide to do it the other way around.

Graeme Beresford
504 Posted 17/05/2022 at 15:32:13
Rob @ 499, yes I read this comment to you and wasn’t a fan of it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, telling someone to take a break because they make a valid point is ridiculous.

Nobody can argue with facts. What I have written is factual. I don’t care what people say. It’s been happening all season long. Those decisions have 100% cost us points. If we go down, I will shed a tear for our terrible performances, management and ownership. Another tear will be shed for the shocking decisions that have also accounted for our relegation. Everton should sue the F.A.

Also, does anyone know;

Did Klopp get a ban for going onto the pitch and saying to the referee ‘the only referee I have a problem with is you, none of the others, just you!’.
Carlo did something similar last year and got a straight red card, after we were again denied a goal against Man Utd as Sigurdsson tried to remove his legs from the play.

Has Steven Gerrard received any form of ban or warning for his post match comments about John Moss?

Or are these decisions reserved for Frank Lampard as he dared to step to the front and be the manager this season who said ‘that was wrong, that was a disgrace, demand an apology, and then say if that happened at the other end of the pitch’. Charged for the suggestion that the ref was biased.

Guess what…. Frank was charged for being correct. The ref was biased.

Geoff Cadman
505 Posted 17/05/2022 at 15:45:38
Danny #498

Considering our present position, did you mean to use Coventry and Wimbledon as examples or is it just a coincidence?

Christopher Timmins
506 Posted 17/05/2022 at 15:52:11
The club has managed to kill the aspirations of many of the younger supporters since the last League title. However, they can never do that to those of us who remember the title winning teams of the sixties and eighties.

Going forward the aim must be to emulate those title winning teams, anything less is simply not acceptable.

Rob Halligan
507 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:02:22
Graeme, I have found the following email address for which any complaints about referees could be sent too, at the PGMOL website. Seriously mate, I would really consider sending your post to them and see what kind of reply, if any, you get.

Referees@TheFA.com.

Bill Gall
508 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:02:59
Johan,

I agree that over the season we have had some bad calls go against us and Sunday was no different, but I see you also agree that Lampard has made bad calls in games both tactically and substitutions, and that is what I was talking about on Sunday.

Don't forget we were winning after being given another penalty.

My point is what happened after half-time, we had 1 man in Black who made a bad mistake, but we had a manager, plus his coaches who I think made a mistake. (It's just my opinion.)

Bill Gall
509 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:05:59
Rob # 507

Isn't this the same organization that we got the apology from after the Man City fiasco, non-penalty?

Jay Harris
510 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:12:21
Just to add to Graeme's observations has anyone seen this:

https://www.90min.com/posts/3720069-mark-halsey-s-shock-revelation-sparks-rumours-of-corruption-within-refereeing-body.

Jay Harris
511 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:17:30
"I have been in that situation,
when I have seen an incident
and been told to say I haven't
seen it. To be fair to the FA...
it's not them. It comes from
within the PGMOL [Professional
Game Match Officials Limited].
It doesn't stop there. We've been
told to give a certain amount
of corners, or throw ins, fouls,
bookings etc. The Premier
League is rife with spot fixing
and bias towards certain clubs
from the FA. Every referee in the
Premier League could be infront
of a court one day soon."

Mark Halsey

(Premier League referee 1999-2013)

Rob Halligan
512 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:19:49
Bill, it is. Mike Riley is in charge of the PGMOL, and the apology came from him.

Will Mabon
513 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:31:02
Jay @ 510;

would you check that link? Interested to read it, but getting a 404.

Will Mabon
514 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:38:47
Graeme @ 467:

Sterling work, Mr. Beresford. Thanks for taking the time for us.


Brian @ 451:

Don't know what you're talking about. Didn't live anywhere near there back then... and anyway, never heard of it. Daresbury? Warrington?? Eh? Where dat? Plus, I never carried matches or a lighter. Couldn't have been me.

Will Mabon
515 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:40:21
OK, the link works this way:


Link

Martin Mason
516 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:48:47
Watched the Branthwaite sending off a few times today and it was bang on correct in accordance with the rules as was the Richarlison penalty leading up to it.

Graeme's posts above are absolutely correct, I've always believed that so much is at stake that refereeing must be rife with corruption. I believe that there could be an agenda to see Everton relegated – ridiculous as it sounds to me.

Shane Corcoran
517 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:54:03
I think it’s fair to say I’m in the minority 😅😅
Dale Self
518 Posted 17/05/2022 at 16:59:20
Well done Graeme, you're keeping me sane mate.
Lee Courtliff
519 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:02:14
I can't read anymore of this. Just thinking about Thursday night makes me need the toilet!

Good luck, everyone.

John McFarlane Snr
520 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:04:44
Hi Jay [511],

I heard that from my nephew some time ago, but because I couldn't recall the referee's name, I held back on submitting a post. It was loosely relayed to me as, "Look after the 'Big Clubs' because that's where the money is."

I suppose that comes under the phrase of 'hearsay'.

David Currie
521 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:05:56
Graham 487, Top man and great research, we have been cheated out of at least 6-10 points this season due to cheating officials and the VAR.

The club should send all of your points to PGMOL.

Finn Taylor
522 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:14:37
Good link to Halsey article.

He's a blue as well.

Graham Hammond
523 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:27:57
The atmosphere at Goodison has been brilliant just recently but, for all the fantastic songs and chants, I want to hear one and all shouting 'Cheat, Cheat, Cheat' if the officials rig the game against us once again on Thursday night.

I do not believe in coincidence, Anthony Taylor was an absolute fucking disgrace up at Newcastle and probably cost us three much-needed points that night. I sadly believe he has put on the game to rob us once again, we will see…

I hope I am wrong and hope that even his influence will not be able to turn the result against us.

Jim Wilson
524 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:30:00
Well played Graeme @ 467

It is a head wrecker having to do this kind of thing. It takes hard work and time but it needs to be done.

It is what the club should have done a long time ago. And should have been acted on.

All clubs have moments in games to complain about but some a lot more than others.

If you are skeptical ask a red about what they want to complain about and compare notes!

Jay Harris
525 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:37:31
Sir John,
I only heard about it today from my son who messaged me with it. I was shocked not by the revelation but the fact a top referee would come out and admit it.
Graeme Beresford
526 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:46:26
Cheers everyone. I’m sick of saying it to people and they simply say ‘it happens to all the teams’ the facts are…. It does not.

This season has been nothing short of a disgrace from the officials. We have had far too many things go against us for anyone to just say ‘ah well you were just unlucky’. No, being unlucky is it happening once or twice throughout the season. More than that is even more unlucky, to have as many as we have had is simple… it’s cheating.

If we paid off Anthony Taylor as a club so we get all of the decisions on Thursday. He sends a Crystal Palace player off after ten mins and gives us a penalty, if Everton where found out there would be outrage. A scandal they would call it! How dare they! They are cheaters! Disgusting cheaters! … and they would have a point.

However, these officials have done this to us all season. What has been done about it? Absolutely nothing! We have had a half arsed apology for the most ‘clear and obvious’ handball you will ever see. Then, our boss, has to explain a few weeks later why he’s labelled a ref as biased because of his performance in the derby match. To me, nothing has changed. The decisions are still going against us in most games. Even Mason Holgates yellow card against Watford. That’s a centre back who then has to be careful for 70 minutes simply because Mike Dean booked him for nothing. It’s happening in every single game.

Christy Ring
527 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:59:01
Graeme #467 Great research, the facts speak for themselves.
Dennis Stevens
528 Posted 17/05/2022 at 17:59:05
T'was always thus, but nowadays there's little pretence of objective refereeing, imo.
Jim Wilson
529 Posted 17/05/2022 at 18:14:12
Another great point, Graeme.

It is the smaller decisions that also make a big difference and an early booking for nothing affects the rest of the game for a player and the team.

How many times have we seen an Everton player booked for nothing and an opponent get away with a really bad early challenge?

Johan Elmgren
530 Posted 17/05/2022 at 18:16:17
Bill, yes, and I agree. Frank could have managed that lead way better. However, we shouldn't really have been in that position to start with had the ref done his job. Had he done his job, we could have been 2-0 up and with 11 men on the pitch. And every manager and player makes mistakes.

Frank is a young manager and is learning his trade. He's already shown he can adapt his managerial style, by going 'defensive' for the last 5-6 games. He realised his favoured style of play didn't work for this team in a relegation battle and changed it to be more defensively stable. I think that, along with him being an honest and straight-talking lad, makes him a good bet for us in the near future. If it's long term, we'll maybe see next or the coming season.

Referees also make mistakes, and had it been a few along this season I wouldn't have complained... This is though bordering on ridiculous, when game after game we get pivotal, game-changing decisions against us. Is it any wonder there is talk of "conspiracies"? No, it isn't. This kind of blatant, continuously bad refereeing only fuels such theories.

Yes, Frank hasn't been perfect in his managing but, if we had had say 10 points more, which might be the amount of points we have lost due to poor refereeing, none on here would be complaining about Frank; instead, we would be cheering him for getting us out of the mud. Now, we are still there, and it's all because of the incompetent men in black.

Danny O’Neill
531 Posted 17/05/2022 at 18:21:44
Geoff, don't, I just plucked them and I'm not thinking straight right now.

Rosary Beads, inhaler, my Grandad's WW2 bible. I'm scared of what socks to wear because if I choose the wrong ones, I'll never forgive myself.

I might even bring the dogs. I think they could influence the officials.

Shane Corcoran
532 Posted 17/05/2022 at 18:49:40
Anyone done any research on bad decisions affecting any other clubs?
John McFarlane Snr
533 Posted 17/05/2022 at 18:56:41
Hi Dennis [528],

I don't believe that t'was always thus, but it may be that my 'always thus' goes back further than yours. If I had felt that way, I would have walked away from football.

But, rapidly approaching my 84th birthday, I am hanging on in the hope of swapping my seat in the Park End for a seat in the Bramley-Moore Dock Stadium.

I believe that match officials in my 'always thus' were honest and, like everyone else, were subject to honest mistakes. I also believe that our game was stolen from us with the formation of the Premier League and the involvement of Sky Television.

I take no pride from the fact that Everton were one of the Big Five who were behind the formation of the breakaway group, the only member of the Original Twelve who formed the Football League in 1888 to do so.
I'm afraid that in any circumstances, 'Where there's money, there's corruption'.

Tony Abrahams
534 Posted 17/05/2022 at 18:57:55
I'd sooner someone would do the research to find out why these referees are not accountable, Shane, and whilst everyone else argues, they are allowed to remain silent, which is absolutely incredible (to me at least) really.

I think the club who have been affected the most by a bad refereeing decision was Bournemouth a couple of seasons ago, when Hawkeye never went off. The VAR still didn't even intervene which was scandalous considering the impact this ended up having on the relegation places.

Dave Lynch
535 Posted 17/05/2022 at 19:04:58
It would be interesting if a club/manager refused to pay a fine after making after match comments.

Take it to court, you can't be convicted for having an opinion.

Dennis Stevens
536 Posted 17/05/2022 at 19:06:21
No doubt we'll have slightly different perspectives as to the fallibility/bias balance of officials through the ages, Sir John #534. However, that apart, I don't disagree with any of the points you've made in your post.
Brent Stephens
537 Posted 17/05/2022 at 19:08:56
Shane, that would help complete the picture.
Shane Corcoran
538 Posted 17/05/2022 at 19:17:48
Link

This is a summary of VAR decisions only. These are also facts. But it proves nothing with regards to bias, despite being facts.

Neil Copeland
539 Posted 17/05/2022 at 19:39:48
Perhaps the real agenda is to maintain an element of controversy in the game because it keeps things interesting with plenty of post game talking points.

After all, if there were no debatable issues to discuss would we all get bored?

Brent Stephens
540 Posted 17/05/2022 at 19:53:41
On that analysis of penalties alone, Shane, if we think we are hard done to, god knows how Burnley, Leicester and Norwich feel! But at least Wolves, Newcastle and Man Utd have fared as "badly" as we did. Not sure I see a pattern in all that.

One thing that does occur to me on penalties is that the probability of a penalty being conceded, or awarded in a team's favour, is probably influenced in part (in part!) by how good a team is. So, a penalty might be less likely to be awarded to the weaker side in a game: partly because they're less likely to be in the opposition's penalty area, and partly because, once in their area, they are less likley to be first to the ball. The converse is more likley for the stronger side.

Geoff Cadman
541 Posted 17/05/2022 at 20:13:40
Danny if it was subconscious it may be a good thing.

I am also having problems deciding what to wear on Thursday. A hat my mother-in-law bought me for the 1984 FA Cup Final and has been in a draw for 30 years due to sentimental value may well make an appearance.

Brian Wilkinson
542 Posted 17/05/2022 at 20:15:19
Graeme @467, I have another incident in regards to the second penalty not given in the derby, when the Liverpool player stood on Gordon's foot, then pushed him in the area.

Cannot remember possibly Brighton away, Michael Keane jumped to clear a header, he came down and accidentally landed on the opposition's foot, penalty awarded to whichever team it was and they scored from it.

No difference to the Liverpool player standing on Gordon's foot.

If I missed it in your write up, apologies beforehand Graeme, great in-depth work by you. I would certainly email it to the email address Rob put up, and send a copy to Everton Football Club.

Shane Corcoran
543 Posted 17/05/2022 at 20:34:27
Couldn’t agree more Brent.
Will Mabon
544 Posted 17/05/2022 at 20:43:58
Neil,

that is certainly a considerable element in the whole arena of popular sport. Bread & circuses.

Neil Copeland
545 Posted 17/05/2022 at 20:50:19
Will, the number of posts on TW after a defeat vs win supports that theory also.

I used to think that these things balance themselves out over a season but that no longer seems the case. And particularly more so since the introduction of the VAR.

Will Mabon
546 Posted 17/05/2022 at 20:53:23
Neil, the whole show is getting more and more complex and detailed, with endless permutations and angles - don't know what's going on anymore!
Neil Copeland
547 Posted 17/05/2022 at 21:13:11
Will, same here mate. Personally I wish they would scrap the VAR, review the offside rule and consider other options that can improve the game. At the moment it appears to be headed into a completely farcical future.
Paul Birmingham
548 Posted 17/05/2022 at 21:53:45
Petition Novena, at 6.00 p.m. by the Holy Trinity Statue, on Thursday, any thing and every thing, to ensure, Everton win the Palace match, and stay in the EPL.

“Whats Our Name.”

UTFT!

Alec Gaston
549 Posted 17/05/2022 at 21:54:25
I am surprised that someone with technical knowledge hasn't worked out how to tap into the feed between the ref and the VAR at Stockley Park? Might hear a few interesting things around the decision – or lack of decision-making… 👀
Bernie Quinn
550 Posted 17/05/2022 at 22:01:45
Wow Graeme @ 467 - that was a brilliant summary. I have had a good sleep, feel recovered from my illness and 'fighting fit again' I don't think there is a conspiracy against our Club but that list of yours makes me even more convinced that many referees dislike Everton and favour the Sky Six with their decision. All power to you Graeme, and I hope you take it further. I am now very nervous about the Palace game. MMy Rosary Beads have been blessed by Pope John Paul 2, and I will be clutching them all through the game - remembering that Our Lady is always dressed in Blue - just like Dame Toffee- so She must be an Evertonian! To everyone at Goodison, give your famous roar - cheer the Team on, and enjoy yourselves - you deserve it. Just wish I was with you. COYB
Danny O’Neill
551 Posted 17/05/2022 at 22:08:27
You are there with all of us Bernie.

Spirit of the Blues, wherever we are. In person. In spirit. In soul.

I'm getting emotional beyond even my own standards.

Neil Copeland
552 Posted 17/05/2022 at 22:09:06
Paul, absolutely.

Reset, go again. Under the lights this time, we need to frighten the life out of Palace and lift the blues once again.

We can do this.

UTFT!

Will Mabon
553 Posted 17/05/2022 at 22:47:25
Just posted on the Premier League thread re. the Forest game. Interesting observations from the commentary team about the difference in refereeing with no VAR compared to a PL game - refereed by a PL referee, Michael Oliver. It shouldn't be that way.
Christy Ring
554 Posted 17/05/2022 at 22:48:07
Under the lights, Howard Kendall's Gwladys Street End will suck it in Thursday night, Legend.


Paul Birmingham
555 Posted 17/05/2022 at 23:05:02
Let's become a band of Blues Brothers this Thursday, across the world, and stick together, to see Everton beat Palace.

This is massive, the biggest game this century and perhaps in the last 28 years.

The stakes are high, the price to succeed and for Everton to win is immeasurable.

“What's Our Name?”

UTFT!


Soren Moyer
556 Posted 17/05/2022 at 23:39:56
At least one of Palace's better players is injured for our game. Olisse or something like that.
Bernie Quinn
557 Posted 17/05/2022 at 23:51:42
I will repeat that I am very nervous about the possibility of relegation. But I've said it before, it's not the end of the world...

Except, it would mean we would still have to play Watford next season! Oh please Everton, don't let that happen!

Brian Wilkinson
558 Posted 17/05/2022 at 23:56:47
19 May 1984, my very first FA Cup Final visit to Wembley. Let's hope that date is a good omen for Thursday.

We are in the best position of the three teams fighting it out, we could even lose both games and still stay up at worst, the other two however do not have that luxury.

One final push Thursday to get us over the line, win that and I could not give a flying quack about the last game, just as long as we get it sorted this Thursday.

Jay Harris
559 Posted 18/05/2022 at 00:31:12
Brian that may not be a good omen bearing in mind Bernie's post about playing Watford.
Brendan McLaughlin
560 Posted 18/05/2022 at 02:24:16
Will #562,

There's a massive difference... you're not born religious!

Bernie Quinn
561 Posted 18/05/2022 at 07:53:46
Damn ! I'm sat here thinking theres only 12 hours to the Palace game then I realised it isn't 6.45 am Thursday morning, NZ time, but 24 hours later! I can't take much more of this - Roll on next week.
Christy Ring
562 Posted 18/05/2022 at 08:00:39
Mike is 100% correct 0 this has nothing to do with religion; respect your fellow man and woman, it was to support anti-homophobia.

If Jake Daniels was a team mate, how would he feel? When Gueye wore the jersey with alcohol and gambling advertised which is against his religion, he still wore it, so it's nothing to do with religion.

Graeme Beresford
563 Posted 18/05/2022 at 08:29:37
I, like most I imagine, am really struggling at the moment with the mental aspect of this game. I have not been to work early in years however the last three days I have arrived an hour early. It’s because I have woken up every morning and the first thing I think about it Everton.

This game is massive. All we all want is a win. I just hope every player can keep a level head and not give the ref or VAR any reason to brandish any coloured card early in the game. We need 11 men on that pitch. Do we start Dele? Match their formation and go 4 at the back with 2 forwards and have Dele in their Gallagher role? It’s a tough one.

The one thing I don’t want us to do is go defensive and concede first. We have to get the first goal and go all out for the second. It’s such a tough ask.

This is it tomorrow for Everton. Even if you are not going the game I would encourage you to get to Goodison. Wear blue, buy flares, buy a scarf, everyone single person in the gwladys street end should be in an Everton top, it should be the ‘blue wall’ we have all spoken about for the new stadium. If you don’t have a blue shirt get to the stalls by the Dixie Dean statue and whilst you’re there give his foot a rub for good luck.

I agree with the Instagram posts. Get there, see the bus in and get into the ground. Stand up for 90 minutes and sing like you’re in the final of X-Factor. God knows, I can’t wait for a good night sleep. Hopefully, safe, knowing the Arsenal game means nothing and we can all have a few beers and laugh about the season we have had, and the decisions against us. COYB!

Graeme Beresford
564 Posted 18/05/2022 at 09:59:35
We have to remember that the top 6 teams this year wanted to leave to join their own league.

Therefore I congratulate West Ham United on winning this season's Premier League. The other 6 wanted to leave. We should've let them. They could've taken their corrupt officials and we could've taken 6 teams from the Championship and so forth. Even integrated Scottish football into the Football League.

They would've all begged to come back when they realised football should not be for the elite and normal fans don't have the capital to be flying around Europe for games all season.

Danny O’Neill
565 Posted 18/05/2022 at 10:40:39
Christine, I think I'm going to be on New Zealand hours until Friday morning. I can't see me getting much sleep between now and then! Maybe on the train on the way back to Euston with 3 points in the bag.
Christine Foster
566 Posted 18/05/2022 at 10:50:36
Danny, conversely I am on UK time! I have had little sleep since Sunday night, trying hard not to think of the game on Friday morning here, such discussions are best had over a few drinks as often the intended responses are often lacking due to my poor phraseology!

At least the game is on at a decent time on Friday morning, I hate the 4:30 pm kick-offs... that's 3:30 am here!

Phil Lewis
567 Posted 18/05/2022 at 11:11:10
Too late now of course, but worth noting nonetheless that John Lundstram plays in the Europa League Final tonight for Rangers.

Beni Baningame, prior to his injury, has produced consistent Man of the Match performances for Hearts and has been quoted as the driving force behind their excellent season.

Two midfielders, cast aside by Everton, who could quite possibly have been the answer to our midfield woes.
Good luck to them both.

Danny O’Neill
568 Posted 18/05/2022 at 11:39:31
Brian, send me your relaxation vibes.

I've always been called a calm person. Accused of being unemotional. That my heart beats once a minute. Twice when Everton score.

I don't even want to check it right now.

Brian Wilkinson
569 Posted 18/05/2022 at 11:49:17
Not a lot we can do, Danny, if we show nerves and fear, what hope have the players got.

You look at a worst-case scenario, where we have to beat both Palace and Arsenal, and hope other teams slip up, we are in a much better position than that.

I do not even see Leeds getting anything at Brentford, but I certainly feel confident, that we can get the job done on Thursday, you have to believe until it is no longer possible.

We have a home game, we have every possible advantage we could wish for, the fans backing, a full house Goodison, we just have to raise the bar even bigger Thursday, get the Old Lady rocking even more than the last few home games, strike the fear of god up the Palace players.

Now go and dig your smoking jacket out, light a long filtered cigarette, pour yourself a cognac, and in a David Niven voice, look down at those mere peasants of Palace and tell them in no uncertain terms, how Everton and the fans, are going to give you a damn good thrashing.

Brian Wilkinson
570 Posted 18/05/2022 at 11:58:48
I just hope both Richarlison and Gordon focus on doing what they do best, playing football instead of going to ground.
Danny Baily
571 Posted 18/05/2022 at 12:12:53
Brian 602, love it!
Danny O’Neill
572 Posted 18/05/2022 at 12:13:34
Inspiring Brian. Smoking jackets it is. Even though I've never smoked in my life. Or drunk Brandy for that matter!!
Joe McMahon
573 Posted 18/05/2022 at 12:38:11
Such as Gordon's lack of end product for several games now, it would have been good to see more of El Ghazi, he can score and has pace. I think under Smith he scored 2 against Everton. Says it all!
Brian Wilkinson
574 Posted 18/05/2022 at 12:49:37
Danny that reminds me of a war film, either Saints and soldiers, or when trumpets fade, some bloke in his little foxhole, in the Ardennes, his Commanding officer stops by and hands his a packet of cigs, the guy says I do not smoke, to which his Officer replies, you will do before the nights out.

The next scene, when the camera pans across his foxhole, you see smoke coming out of his foxhole, then a close up of him smoking.

Tom Bowers
575 Posted 18/05/2022 at 13:01:27
It goes without saying this has been the worst season in recent memory and possibly the worst in my 60 years of being an Evertonian.

Surely to God it will come to an end tomorrow with a victory despite the team being a mess due to injuries etc.

We cannot allow Sunday to come into play.

Strange results come towards the end of the season and we don't want another awful weekend like the last one with RS winning, City drawing and Everton's mess-up at Goodison.

I just want to relax on Sunday and not have to worry about Everton's result.

Tony Abrahams
576 Posted 18/05/2022 at 13:47:45
I see that a few people have been arrested over match fixing in the league of Ireland, but that wouldn’t happen in England, things like that don’t happen here!

John McFarlane Snr
577 Posted 18/05/2022 at 14:19:05
Hi Tom [614] this is by no means the worst season in recent times if you include 1993/94 and 1997/98 when the final game of each season confirmed Everton's safety from relegation. However your claim may well be vindicated if we fail to beat Crystal Palace tomorrow, but even then if Brentford beat Leeds United it will be regarded as ''one'' of the worst seasons in recent times'
The worst season in my watching Everton was 1950/51 when a 0-0 draw away to Sheffield Wednesday would have secured safety, but a 6-0 defeat condemned us to the Second Division, and the ironic side to that game was that Sheffield Wednesday were relegated with us.
Danny O’Neill
578 Posted 18/05/2022 at 14:42:09
1993-94 for me followed closely by the "One-to-One" kit season with it's awful yellow stripe and non-Royal blue shade of blue.

I digress from the important issue. Win tomorrow. I have a night in my home city and I travel back a relieved person and Evertonian very early on Friday morning.

Happy? No. But that can wait.

See you tomorrow. See you Sunday.

John Skelly
579 Posted 18/05/2022 at 15:44:40
After Sunday game which I think was a freaky culmination of bad luck and worse refereeing

We need to keep 11 players on the pitch and should hold no fear of the opposition whoever they might be
Come on my beloved blues.

Brian Murray
580 Posted 18/05/2022 at 15:54:54
need one ticket 07782552050 for tomorrow.
Christy Ring
581 Posted 18/05/2022 at 16:42:11
Considering the amount of money that we spent and wasted, it’s shocking that we’re in this position, the worst season ever, all started under Koeman, a win tomorrow night I’ll be ecstatic and hopefully enjoy the summer
Brian Hennessy
582 Posted 18/05/2022 at 17:04:23
Listening to Frank’s press conference, good to see Keane and Van de Beek are fit. I would like to see both of them in the line-up.

Not sure I am comfortable with the amount of times Frank said we need 2 points out of our remaining 2 games. I know this is factually correct but not sure this is the message I would want to be sending out to our players. We should be aiming for a win tomorrow night. Settling for a point will be a huge gamble.

Tony Abrahams
583 Posted 18/05/2022 at 17:10:04
The more I think about it Christy, the more I’m not at all shocked by our current position, although I do think we would have probably been around mid table, if we hadn’t had such an awful season regarding injuries.

We have players bought by Koeman and Walsh, then Silva, Brands, Allardyce, Ancellotti, and Benitez, not to mention whoever was in charge of our last disastrous transfer window, when a lot of Evertonians could see our team was already in trouble.

Too many cooks spoil the broth - but hopefully we can win tomorrow and start moving towards a bit of stability, which is not going to be easy, when you look at things like the wages a lot of players earn, and Lampard’s substitutions, which have surely got to be down to a lack of trust in most of these players? Players it won’t be easy to shift.

Bernie Quinn
584 Posted 18/05/2022 at 21:19:12
I agree with John Senior - The worst season for me was the 1950/51 - I was physically sick at the Sheffield result and had to endure the jibes of that lot across the Park. Mind you, three seasons later, it felt good as we were promoted and waved to those same Red supporters as they replaced us in Div 2! But this season is probably the most nerveracking of the 76 years supporting the Toffees. Roll on Monday
Dave Abrahams
585 Posted 18/05/2022 at 21:49:34
I can never remember a season like this with so many injuries, suspensions and referees decisions both on the field and in a studio miles away but the main reason is the many silly, stupid and inane mistakes by Everton players in far too many games.

Tomorrow night these players can erase some of the pain of watching these wretched mistakes and inept performances and let us go home in a happy delirious state of mind, don't leave it to Sunday or depending on other teams losses although that will do as a last resort.

A calm determined effort from every player used can ensure this.

Neil Copeland
586 Posted 18/05/2022 at 21:58:56
Dave, for the first 18 minutes on Sunday I was (and probably many others) thinking “at last, a proper fast front foot performance” and thought we were on course for a 3 or 4 nil romp. But no, that just wouldn’t be in our DNA, far too easy that.

So, I can only assume that tomorrow must be the night for a great display from our heroes in blue,

Mind you, as depressing and frustrating as it can be, both Burnley and Leeds would willingly swap places,

UTFT!

Joe Corgan
587 Posted 18/05/2022 at 22:03:35
John #577 - I know you often remind us of your advancing years but surely even you wouldn't suggest that '97/98 (24 years ago) or '93/94 (28 years ago) can be described as 'recent!'
Tony Abrahams
588 Posted 18/05/2022 at 22:17:40
I'm watching a team that entered administration ten years ago playing in a European final tonight, with my thoughts being, what did that playwright Bill Kenwright, actually save Everton from?

Win tomorrow and it will hopefully be Kenwright's last ever home game as chairman of Everton, and it will also definitely be one of the “greatest feelings” that many of us will have had during his very long and painful reign.

But if we lose tomorrow, it will possibly be the last top-flight game Everton ever play at Goodison, so come on you fuckin Blue Boys.

John Lundstram has just gone down with cramp, and although I've only had one eye on this game, he definitely looks like the glue holding his team together.

Will Mabon
589 Posted 18/05/2022 at 22:19:50
He's definitely found his team, Tony. Looks the part.
John McFarlane Snr
590 Posted 18/05/2022 at 22:24:24
Hi Joe, [587] I certainly wouldn't describe 28 years ago as ancient, it appears to be a matter of individual opinion, and seems to be clear in the minds of many Everton supporters.
Graham Fylde
591 Posted 18/05/2022 at 22:49:21
John (577) you mentioned the irony of losing to Sheffield Wednesday in 1950-51 only to be relegated with them.

I always feel irony/contrition at our escape in the 97-98 season you mentioned when we survived on goal difference and Bolton were relegated. We took a point at Bolton that year despite a Terry Phelen clearance from (according to Lyndon's report) a yard behind our line.

Even with the suspect nature of VAR decisions, I think, had it happened today, it'd have been us and not Bolton who went. I think they subsequently went into financial meltdown.

John McFarlane Snr
592 Posted 18/05/2022 at 22:57:29
Hi Graham [591]

Everton claim that Neville Southall was fouled in the build-up to that incident, if true, then justice was served.


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