It used to be the biggest most celebrated day of the football calendar.

It used to be a grand gathering of all the great and the good across the land.

It used to kick off at 3pm, year after year without fail.

It used to be the final game on the final day of the season.

It used to be the only time either team would get to the hallowed haven of Wembley Stadium.

Now... it looks for all the world like another overhyped clash of Premier League 'titans'.

You can choose to watch it in the UK on BBC One or ITV, at the bizarre kick-off time of 16:45 BST.

Reader Comments (114)

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Danny O’Neill
1 Posted 14/05/2022 at 06:19:45
The red locusts have descended on my locality in London, so a nauseating day ahead.

I think I'll take the Ridgebacks out with me later to keep them at bay as I always seem to attract their unwanted attention.

I'm more concerned with tomorrow. Put me into a self-induced temporary coma, please, Everton.

Christine Foster
2 Posted 14/05/2022 at 07:34:33
Morning Danny, I used to say, like my Nan did, if Everton can't have it, it's good that Liverpool can. "Red or Blue, we are scousers," she would say.

But somewhere along the line, I don't know where and when exactly, but it did. The sheer nastiness went far beyond ribbing or gloating but descended into hatred. Now I am sure every blue feels antipathy towards them, but not on their levels, not on their sheer volume.

I have seen grown men and women consumed with bile, red in the face, shouting obscenities at the mere presence of a Blue. It was never like that, Danny, and I think there is a significant difference between the two sets of supporters now.

I can only sympathize with you as the swarms decend. I hope Chelsea win, because we are not the same as the other lot anymore. We got a divorce for cruelty.

Danny O’Neill
3 Posted 14/05/2022 at 07:52:51
Absolutely bang on Christine. At some point it changed. I used to travel to the Derby matches with roughly a 50-50 split between blue and red mates. Mates I went to school with. We'd travel to Goodison or Anfield together, go our separate ways but then meet up afterwards to get the train back to Hunts Cross.

Rivalry, banter but humour. It has definitely got more sinister. I actually can't stand them any more as a collective.

That said, I can still have a reasonably sensible conversation with some of my cousins and my brother-in-law is a massive red who I enjoy conversing with about football. He has 3 sons; 2 reds and one chosen one.

But collectively, their fan base has become odd and condescending. Entitled and shameless.

And to your point about us having their backs. They never understand it. I watched Evertonians risk being arrested when they confronted a gang of Manchester United fans chanting unsavoury remarks about Hillsborough in a bar before the 2009 semi-final. They might be our ginger step-child, but they are still family. You don't choose your family as my mother told me.

Same city, different worlds as they say.

Bernie Quinn
4 Posted 14/05/2022 at 08:18:00
I'm a little cocooned here in New Zealand with the two-club rivalry.

For my sins, I married a staunch Red, and we had 2 sons – a Blue and (I'm ashamed to admit) the other a Red. Plus a daughter who decided to support Wigan Athletic 'cos her Grandad Quinn once played for the old Wigan Boro before signing on in the 1920s with Everton.

Now I have three grandsons and yes they are split as well: 1 Blue, 1 Red and 1 All Black! At least we just joke to each other, and thankfully being in New Zealand, we've missed all that nastiness there seems to be in the UK.

Steve Shave
5 Posted 14/05/2022 at 08:24:45
Interesting comments, Bernie, Danny and Christine. As a Blue who grew up in Suffolk and now lives in Dorset, I have always been spared the vitriol from that lot. I grew up hearing that there was "no friendlier derby match, fans mingling" etc but, as I have grown older and observed the comments on here for many years, I see a different story.

Whilst they are a lovely team to watch, I've always found their behaviour to be repugnant, they have always drawn disreputable players to them too. I don't think I've despised a player over the years more than Suarez. Klopp's antics after Pickford's error was an incredible display of poor sportsmanship never seen from a Premier League manager before, disgusting.

Even the pundits (actually, especially the pundits) Carragher, Souness and Thompson all ooze bile and vitriol from the very bowels of Mordor. I would include Owen in that but he's so vanilla and dull, I am able to ignore him.

I really hope Man City win the title and I firmly believe Carlo will outsmart Klopp in the final of the Champions League. Couple this with Premier League survival and a resurgence of belief and fan unity in the Blue half of the city and I will take that for now. COYB.

Christine Foster
6 Posted 14/05/2022 at 10:06:47
I just worked out why they are the way they are but there is no way I am going to post it. The only thing I would say is the injustice of Hillsborough has soured them to others, friend or foe.
Tony Abrahams
7 Posted 14/05/2022 at 10:30:35
Christine, I'd say we are equally as bad, even if I understand your sentiments. It goes back years, I remember a Liverpudlian saying to me that Evertonians were a disgrace, for the stick they had given another one of our mates at Goodison, whilst he had his child with him. (He got spat at.)

I'd actually seen the incident, it was after the game when McAllister scored a last-minute winner, and my reply was that the lad who was carrying on, was very fuckin lucky he had his kid with him. Otherwise, I'm certain he would have been thrown over the Upper Bullens stand that day, but he obviously hadn't told you he was carrying on like an absolute fucking divi.

This is why the hatred has grown off the scale now, because people no longer look at themselves – it's always about the way the “other cunts” carry on, and very soon, there will be a death after a Merseyside derby because of this, imo, unfortunately. (I just hope I'm wrong.)

Christine Foster
8 Posted 14/05/2022 at 10:38:31
Tony, totally agree, no point in thinking we have the moral higher-end when we react or act so badly, neither side have any right to be seen as better than the other but events change people and people react to how they are treated. Points in time...
Danny O’Neill
9 Posted 14/05/2022 at 10:43:58
Tony you've just reminded me of that McAlister Derby.

A dark moment. A free kick to us that wasn't awarded then they get one.

They blatantly shift the ball 20 yards forward to take the free kick and then coco the clown (our keeper) falls like a wet salmon.

That was a long night. This is going to be a long day, surrounded by them.

Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 14/05/2022 at 10:51:18
Life has changed, I rarely see the same banter that I used to see in everyday life, and maybe it’s because people’s attitude’s have changed, when they are getting a little bit of stick nowadays? I think life has become so much worse because of this, but I suppose I grew up “in a sticks and stones era” that was sometimes brutal, but absolutely essential for building character.

Danny, you grew up in the same era as me, and I think it’s because of this that those bastards (sorry) can’t really hurt us. Sit quietly and who knows, they might even give you a lot of joy if things go badly for them today!

Chris Leyland
11 Posted 14/05/2022 at 10:55:22
When I was growing up in the '70s and '80s, there was a pretty even split between us and them at school. You could have banter and we’d often go to watch the other team together when we were away. The majority of fans who actually watched both clubs were from the City. But something changed. They became a tourist club and their fanbase changed with it. Most of their match-going fans aren’t from the area and as we waned, loads of kids who are from the City started following them but never actually ever went to the game.

They have bred a cult. They also took over the media. Whilst all fans are myopic at times, they are the blindest, least fair-minded and least knowledgeable fan base in the world. They dress up in team shirts and scarves to watch the game in a pub. That’s just weird. They refuse point blank to admit any blame for anything. If you highlight this they get offended and try to make out that it is about something that is certainly isn’t about. The Suarez tee-shirts is a perfect example of this.

While our grounds might be close together geographically, as a fan base we are worlds apart. I’d rather die with our history than have to live with theirs.

Brian Harrison
12 Posted 14/05/2022 at 11:07:07
I think the media bias towards Liverpool has been even worse over this year. Last night, watching The One Show, the guy who covers consumer issues is at Wembley with his Liverpool shirt on. I bet the guy has hardly ever been inside Anfield, and he spent the whole time talking about how wonderful it was to sit where Klopp will be sitting at Wembley.

But to even that up, they also had Dion Dublin on and he said "I am married to a scouser so I have to support Liverpool". Then this morning Sky news have the South African rugby captain on saying he is a massive Liverpool fan, again another who wouldn't have been in Anfield very often if at all.

Larry O‘Hara
13 Posted 14/05/2022 at 11:13:55
I too am utterly sick of LFC media bias. So much so I am not watching FA Cup Final this year because the RS are in it. Hope Chavski stuff them…
Kevin Molloy
14 Posted 14/05/2022 at 12:03:14
In fairness to Liverpool fans, if they have gone a bit wonky, it is perhaps understandable. Obviously Hillsborough, you wouldn't wish that, and then the 30 years after that on your worst enemy. Totally fucking exhausting.

But as well, their outrageous success. I genuinely don't think we'd have half the fanbase we have if Istanbul had happened to an Everton team. They would have spontaneously combusted with the sheer bliss of it.

In some ways, success is the worst thing that can happen – I'm still chasing that buzz from 1985. I don't think I'd have been able to watch the last 5 years if our place had been swapped with Liverpool. European finals, lost then won, it would have wrecked my head, and completely dominated my life.

Dave Lynch
15 Posted 14/05/2022 at 12:10:26
If there is any – and I mean any justice in this world, Chelsea will beat them with a dodgy penalty in the last minute of added time.
Allan Board
16 Posted 14/05/2022 at 12:33:24
Sky and money have ruined the FA Cup. You would always watch it regardless of your team's involvement. Football is a 12-month sport now, driven by greed by Sky.

I actually believe that we become more frustrated with football as we get older – it didn't bother you at all when you were still playing because your own games took precedence and also 20 times as many blokes played footy as they do now. With work as well, it left little time to follow your team, 2 games a weekend, one midweek and training took up your time.

That has been replaced by Sky Sports sofa supporters, who in general are shit at football, because they are the computer age and it's all at the touch of a keypad, actually that lazy to play the game, so know nothing and I mean nothing about how the game works. They just regurgitate what Sky say – it's pathetic.

Brian Clough said too much televised football would ruin the game at Grassroots, and he has been proved right 100%. Blokes used to play because they loved it and it opened up your social circle and gave you pals for life. The lazy buggers today just put the telly on and stuff their fat chops.

I will take banter from match going opposition fans, but never from the Sky followers – I just tell them to fuck off and come back when they actually play a game and actually been to watch their 'team'. Bunch of twats, just like Sky. Hope Chelsea win 5-0.

Will Mabon
17 Posted 14/05/2022 at 16:49:37
What's with this kit bullshit?
Michael Kenrick
18 Posted 14/05/2022 at 16:57:38
Tuchel being superstitious. Chelsea have lost their last four finals playing in blue. Reportedly.
Paul Hewitt
19 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:01:53
Having 2 rs brothers and most of the people I know are rs, I can honestly say I don't care if they win this afternoon. They can win the lot for me, not interested in anything they do. But my phone is on silent just incase they do win today.
Tony McNulty
20 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:02:58
You're Uxbridge aren't you Danny?

We don't allow them in Northwood

Dale Self
21 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:08:54
Fantastic lead in Michael. Absolutely thrilled to be here with you all to spew spiteful remarks at the Shite and Chelsea’s consolation prize it is not kn Yank TV again this year, pfffft.
Mike Gaynes
22 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:19:26
ESPN+, Dale.
Michael Kenrick
23 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:30:33
Methinks Rondon, in his games for us, has shown more alacrity and purpose of movement than Lukaku has managed so far in the first half.
Chris Leyland
24 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:34:23
Why do all TV channels have a Klopp-cam with in-game footage constantly focusing on his horse-faced histrionics?
Mike Gaynes
25 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:34:56
The whole season, Michael. No idea what has happened to Rom's brain. He was absolutely brilliant the past two years in Milan.
Will Mabon
26 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:41:34
Michael @ 18 - thanks. Not right for an FA Cup Final in my traditional view.
Will Mabon
27 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:43:13
Chris, it reeks.
Peter Neilson
28 Posted 14/05/2022 at 17:53:09
Tuchel has consistently been commenting on Lukaku’s weight. He looks more like the shape he was in at United rather than in Milan.
Anthony Murphy
29 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:02:24
How are Chelsea not ahead here? Spawny RS goal on the cards
Jeff Armstrong
30 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:15:14
Chris 24, I know, he constantly pops up on the Racing channel.
Dale Self
31 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:16:28
Thanks, Mike, but I'm deep in the woods. ESPN streams are slide shows at best. I take that back at its best it looks like a Leroy Neiman piece that quivers.
Ian Bennett
32 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:21:04
I love Jenas's criticism of players. He like Micah Richards, seems to have revisionist view that they were world class players. You weren't, you were fucking subs.

What I remember was a pretty average player that believed in their own hype, pretty injury prone and lacked bottle. Soon forgotten when Modric, Bale and Co benched him.

Add relegated to your cv as well.

File under Jamie Redknapp.

Tony McNulty
33 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:27:45
Can't make up my mind whether Lukaku: (1) is a shadow of the player he used to be; (2) plays for teams that don't always play to his strengths; (3) could no longer be arsed.
Ian Bennett
34 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:37:43
You got to play to his strengths, Tony, and that is giving him quick ball with space ahead of him. Slow passing type stuff highlights his clumsey touch.

He can go from a world beater, to a player with a touch like a kurb.

Bill Gall
35 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:45:37
Just come in. I haven't watched any of the game. I used to go to Anfield and Goodison in the 60s and 70s,but I do not watch Liverpool except against Everton.

I will never forgive them for the 5-year ban in Europe that destroyed one of the best teams Everton had from further trophies… and after the ban, they were the first team allowed back into Europe.

Len Hawkins
36 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:47:42
I don't watch Red Neck games unless it's against us, not when there are repeats of Supermarket Sweep or the Great British Sewing Bee.

That Dale Winton used to be a boxer, I never knew that until Jim Davidson said he'd been well battered around the ring.

Tony McNulty
37 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:55:30
Ian - agreed.

I always thought he was at his best when with WBA. Bobby B Shoes seemed to want to turn him into a target man, which was pointless IMO.

As for his touch, I thought his first touch was crap, his second was average, and his third touch fabulous.

Stephen Vincent
38 Posted 14/05/2022 at 18:56:23
Bill, think they actually were banned for one year more than other English teams.
Brendan McLaughlin
39 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:06:02
Stephen #38,

You're incorrect.

Robert Tressell
40 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:21:19
Giving my 8-year-old son a running explanation of just what a bunch of massive cheating wankers Liverpool are.
Stephen Vincent
41 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:22:18
Brendan, don't think I am. From memory, their original ban was indefinite, which was reduced to 10 years and following a mega whinge they finally got 6. All the others got 5.

All irrelevant – the best team in Europe had long since broken up.

Denis Richardson
42 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:37:32
Jammy twats - again!
Tony Hill
43 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:38:59
Mason Mount is a very talented bottler. It was, as ever, fully scripted.
Lee Courtliff
44 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:39:30
Liverpool did serve an extra year's ban. They were not allowed to enter the European Cup after winning the League in 1990.

They were back in come '91 when they finished 2nd and entered the Uefa Cup.

Pete Hughes
45 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:40:21
They are not called The Devil's Club for nothing!?
Kevin Naylor
46 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:40:38
Who cares they can have the 2 tin pot ones as the league has all but gone and Carlo will do them in the Champions League.

We stay up and I'll take that.

Tony Hill
47 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:41:35
Pulisic was awful too, I can see why he's not played. Oh well.
Julian Exshaw
48 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:42:08
I'd rather they won this than the Champions League.

Inevitable that they won, don't know why I bothered watching.

Allen Rodgers
49 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:43:36
I had high hopes the Ross Barkley penalty was a good omen... but no.
Michael Lynch
50 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:49:11
Am I right in thinking that the shite have won five of their last six cups on penalties? League Cup against Cardiff and Chelsea, FA Cup against West Ham and Chelsea, and the Istanbul farce? The only fnal they've actually won was when they beat Spurs in the Champions League Final.
Matt Byrne
51 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:51:34
Follow my lead.

I used to spend years being miserable if they won and would almost enjoy their defeats more than our wins. Now, I just pretend they don't exist. Turn them off, don't talk about them.

All that matters is Everton. Don't talk to Liverpudluans about Everton. Only talk about us among ourselves.

They can win the Ashes and the Grand Prix. Who cares. I'm only interested in us. Liverpool who?

Matthew Williams
52 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:52:55
I take it the r.s won again by their usual shithouse route! Jeez, how many finals have they won now by using that sad method? I backed the draw then turned off at the end of extra-time... I know the script by now!

Take comfort, though, my fellow Blues, our last four winning Cup Finals, we won in 90 minutes! We didn't need a safety net, never mind fucking two to bail us out!

Backing the draw now in Champions League final will be like buying money... nailed on. Imagine if penalty shootouts were scraped! ... footy heaven!!!

Tony Hill
53 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:52:56
I wish that were possible, Matt @51, but they live among us and they keep winning.
Jason Hewly
54 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:53:29
Now that the game is over, can someone get down to VAR headquarters and untie them.
Svein-Roger Jensen
55 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:57:04
It’s appropriate that Liverpool play in Satan’s red because the team has always had the luck of the devil, and it usually comes into play in crucial games.
Jon Bentley
56 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:57:11
Fuck em
Fuck em
Fuck em

Sat with a household of RS. Awful afternoon

Andrew Ellams
57 Posted 14/05/2022 at 19:57:25
The media in this country are weird. Liverpool 1 title in 32 years, Spurs none in 61 years and they actually cream themselves over them.

I'm sure this doesn't happen anywhere else.

Barry Rathbone
58 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:00:51
Lost track of how many RS trophies are the result of draws.

I stopped watching/listening to any of their games in the 70s because of this malarky – their pact with the devil is ridiculous. You could spray Anfield with gallons of holy water and Old Nic would still be there. No wonder they play in all-red.

Matt Traynor
59 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:01:10
Mason Mount - Lost 6 finals at Wembley (1 England, 1 Derby, 4 Chelsea).
Conrad Poohs - only Mordor Manager to win every domestic and a European honour.

Great being a Blue isn't it...

Matthew Williams
60 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:04:28
If you need a fucking penalty shootout to get past fucking Birmingham... then you're not a big club in my book!

Shithouse fans of a shithouse club with no class whatsoever! Footy has become a fucking joke wrapped in plastic...fuck 'em.

Let's win in style tomorrow Blues and start to reclaim our city with some style and good grace!

Bill Gall
62 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:15:19
My apologies for the wrong information @35.

The tragedy resulted in all English clubs being placed under an indefinite ban by Uefa, from all competitions. It was lifted in 1991-92 with Liverpool being excluded for an additional 2 years, later reduced to 1 year.

Fourteen Liverpool supporters were found guilty of manslaughter and each sentenced to 6 years imprisonment.

Matt Byrne
63 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:15:28
Don't suffer like that, Jon. Try and avoid them on days like this. Forget about them. They have the luck of the devil. All that matters is us winning and staying up.
Rob Halligan
64 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:16:43
Michael #50. I never saw that Champions League Final against Spurs (Won't be watching this next one either), but didn't the RS get a very dodgy penalty in that game in the first couple of minutes? So I suppose you could say they've won their last six finals courtesy of penalties.
Ralph Basnett
65 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:23:03
Watch the save for Allison, he was off his line before the ball was kicked.

Just saying like.

Bill Gall
66 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:25:41
Wembley, due to their need for financial support, is not the same as it was in the old stadium.

For a start, you only played a final there, and as I griped about, you played your semi-finals on a neutral ground that was usually fairly equal distances for both set of supporters

Now, they are played at the new Wembley that gives the London clubs and areas supporters an advantage, with less travel and most probably tickets.

A national Stadium should just be used for finals and the national team, not just to raise money.

Brian Murray
67 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:35:33
Bet them shower wish they had our good times though eh. Kin clown and joke of a board.
Geoff Lambert
68 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:37:35
Did someone say just ignore them?? Fucking gobshites driving up and down the road with flags out the window, beeping horns, bunting and flags all over the place. I should have gone to the Lakes for the week in a caravan… cunts.
Rob Halligan
69 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:44:31
Geoff, you’d have no chance of avoiding the bastards up there either.
Matthew Williams
70 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:48:01
So we let off a few fireworks outside of Chelski's hotel, while the Red Shite bottle Man City's team coach... Big difference!


Tony Hill
71 Posted 14/05/2022 at 20:52:44
What they have is extraordinary strength of mind and oodles of it. Their supporters do not conceive of defeat. The appalling shithouse, Klopp, has done a superb job.

I think we've made a tentative start to acquire it, strength of mind that is. I think Lampard will instil it. We have to dig in, but it doesn't make it any easier enduring the gloating and gobshitery of their unspeakable "fans".

Matthew Williams
72 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:03:23
Sadly in this day and age, you cannot escape the RS, they're like shite in a Farmer's field... they're everywhere!

Just remind them that they just love drawing every Cup Final they get to. When was the last one they won with any kind of style in 90 minutes?

Gary Hughes
73 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:07:46
Can’t escape them. In Skala in Kefalonia and a Greek scores the winning penalty. Couldn’t write it.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
74 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:08:17
Away on holiday so could watch it but there again, as I said to a Red Shite relative:

"If they were training in my back garden, I would draw the curtains."

Other good news is I can't get Eurovision either. Happy Days!!

Geoff Lambert
75 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:10:10
We are just going out for a couple of pints, her indoors wants to stay in because she knows what will happen if the usual suspects come over.

Calm down, calm down.

Stephen Vincent
76 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:48:04
Phil, you would love Eurovision, banana eating Wolves called Keith.

We definitely need to scrap Z-Cars in favour of the Moldovan entry!!!!

Paul Hewitt
77 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:49:33
This is what happens when you appoint the right manager and recruit the right players.
Ian Bennett
78 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:51:26

Gypsy for hire. Good rate of pay and free ale on tap.

Duties:- lift the curse of us and stick it on them.

Paul Birmingham
79 Posted 14/05/2022 at 21:56:40
FTRS, - Old Nick, and his spawn, will get put in their place in the Champions League Final.

I think Chelsea, had so many chances today and couldn’t hit a barn door between Puliscic, Rom, and Alonso.

Done an ambitious Chelsea, and Real Madrid win double, but as long as Real Madrid, win the Champions League Final, We will all be very happy.

I hope there’s a decent referee for the Champions League Final,, who knows the art of feigning, falling over, off the ball right hooks etc.

Milner does James, and 4 minutes later Milner gets done by James, and gets booked, but Milner got off with not even a word.

It’s a very piss poor state of the EPL, with such overall very poor refereeing standards.

So tomorrow and Thursday, hopefully Everton, will make good, and by tomorrow night, hopefully Everton are safe, assuming Leeds and Burnley both lose.

On another point, In view of the fitness of Delph, all in all, in his time at Everton and previous clubs, as much as he’s done well, the last few games, for Everton, he knows, the manager knows, and we know, that his body, his legs have gone and he’s no longer fit enough to play at this level.

Time to replace, bring in a youngster, to fill his place.

If DCL, plays the next few games, I’m expecting them to be his last in an Everton shirt, so I hope he try’s to go out on a high for Everton.

Bit the next game counts, and now to beat Brentford.


Derek Thomas
80 Posted 14/05/2022 at 23:20:20
I'd rather walk alone...
Chris Hockenhull
81 Posted 14/05/2022 at 23:25:47
Left the house in Waterloo as soon as game started and walked to micro bar where No telly. Only 4 of us there. I said to (Red) landlord “You’ll get it on on penalties “. Dear lord… I felt it surely couldn’t happen yet again… but the odds on them winning yet another trophy in penalties must be getting shorter. Penalties are a game of chance and we are past masters of screwing them up. These buggers are absolutely guaranteed it will go their way. Look at how many finals they took on penalties. It’s unbelievable
John Pickles
82 Posted 14/05/2022 at 23:52:53
Hotel room hot so opened the window. Loads of noise and chanting from down below as endless happy fans celebrate their team.

Bloody Oslo!

Steve Brown
83 Posted 15/05/2022 at 06:44:43
Molde and Milton Keynes was rocking last night!
Danny O’Neill
84 Posted 15/05/2022 at 07:20:32
I don't like mixing politics with football, but the ban in the 80s was partly political. Be seen to do something in the circumstances. I get that.

Yes, English football had a problem with hooliganism but so did many European countries. I distinctly remember Holland not being too far away from the so-called English disease.

We were made an example of because of the actions of one club. But why did we all suffer a 5 year ban? They should have had the 5 year ban alone, not all of us. Personally, it's Europe's long-standing dislike of the UK despite what we've done for them. There has always been a sense of resentment.

And, I don't want to sound controversial or provocative, but just as we rightfully remember Hillsborough, it's often forgotten that 39 football supporters, who I'm sure where as passionate about their club as me, went to a football match and never came home. God bless; that should never happen to anyone who follows the beautiful game with passion.

THEY tend to airbrush that from their history. LIve with ours rather than die with theirs.

Tony @20, yes Uxbridge. It's the end of the M40 so we always end up swarmed when they are in town. For the semi-final the police wouldn't allow City coaches into the town and directed them straight to Wembley. Favourtism of the highest order.

Bill @66, I've never been a fan of the semi-finals being held at Wembley. I have great memories of Villa Park in my teens. Personally, I've never been fond of a national stadium. It's just an opinion, but I think it lends itself to giving ownership of the England team to London and the south east. I much prefer the German example where they rotate the matches around the country. Take the national team to the people rather than make them travel to the capital. Even though it's a great capital and day out!!!

Bernie Quinn
85 Posted 15/05/2022 at 07:39:38
I'm an ancient Evertonian and I love the Club, but I am concerned at the modern nasty abuse some of our posters are aiming at our neighbours. I am also very saddened at the amount of foul language included in these posts. It is not needed to stress a point, to disagree, or even to praise.

I am not an old wimp – in the Army, I was shot at in Cyprus, spent 33 years in the police, involved in deaths including murders (the Moors Murders), had bones broken by protesters and drunks. Heard every swear word you can think of (and used many verbally to friends etc) but never in print.

If a point can't be made without a swear word, then don't make it. Remember, ToffeeWeb is open for all to read – including children, so please have a thought before you post.

I'll put on my helmet now for the responses!! But note that there is no foul language in my post. Fingers crossed we get the 3 points tonight.

Brian Murray
86 Posted 15/05/2022 at 07:47:31
Danny. yes remember the national team's games played around the UK but that was only because the new Wembley was getting built.

Don't know if the phrase 'beautiful game' is just a figure of speech but it's now far from it. Rotten or, at the very least, biased towards the clubs that generate the most global money, as ex-ref Mark Halsey admitted.

I've said many times we don't belong in this league and no amount of School of Science talk will change that until this useless board has gone and we at least act like pros. An Everton kit in our own airport and sports shops would be a start. Embarrassment.

Matt Traynor
87 Posted 15/05/2022 at 08:00:37
Danny #84, it was political. Remember the idea of ID cards etc. Yes, there was a problem in the UK (there still is to this day IMHO but it tends to be lower league games that don't have the same level of policing).

Fans were regularly dying in Europe through violence in Italy, Germany and other places. We were made an example of because, again IMHO, we had a Prime Minister who was keen to control every aspect of society life (having already decided to put Merseyside in "managed decline").

Fast forward many years, and the Premier League (when football obviously began in 1992), I was at a Sports Commercial conference in Asia, and was sat next to someone from the Deutscher Fußball-Bund (something I know is close to your heart!), and he basically admitted to me that the rest of Europe was jealous of the commercial rights deals that the Premier League struck.

Back then (and still to a degree) the way the broadcast revenue was shared was "equitable". I think the split between 1st place and 20th was a ratio of 1.66. Of course, the Sky darlings have been trying to change it ever since.

The overseas broadcast deals which are now worth about the same as domestic, used to be split evenly – I've no idea if it still is and frankly I've long since lost interest – but our neighbours tried several times to change it on the basis that they are global – even Man Utd (initially) wouldn't support that.

Back then, in Spain, for instance, the top 2 used to get 22 x what the other clubs got.

Nowadays I just follow Everton, not football.

Danny O’Neill
88 Posted 15/05/2022 at 08:01:27
Not ancient, Bernie. An eternal Evertonian. That is a better description of you and all of us. We always will be, even beyond this life.

The language thing I get, especially in the written word on public forums. Occasionally I stray but I try not to too often. It goes back to being brought up to never swear in front of women. I always remember that being preached into me.

But language at the match and in the pubs around has always been colourful, to say the least!

With regards to our neighbours, they have changed. We have changed. It's just not the same relationship that it once was. And I don't say that happily. I still have a lot of friends and family who are as passionate as me. But the collective has changed.

Today is about us. Let's go and do this Everton.

Spirit of the Blues. Forever Everton. Marching down the Blue Torch lit Goodison Road.

Alan McGuffog
89 Posted 15/05/2022 at 08:20:44
Matt, if I may digress. I well remember the furore over the proposed introduction of ID cards: "We aren't in a police state" ... "We are British, these cards are for Johnny Foreigner" etc. Thankfully, the idea was kicked into the long grass.

Now, 30 years on, and life is becoming damn near impossible unless you possess a Smartphone. The power of surveillance by 'them' (whoever they may be), via your phone, makes an ID card look like membership of the Little Woody Club.

In the not-too-distant future, not having a phone on your person will be a reason to be taken into custody. We aren't approaching Brave New World – we are well and truly in it.

Anyway... 3 points today!

Bernie Quinn
90 Posted 15/05/2022 at 08:39:01

Must be careful here or we may be removed for being off subject! But thanks for the back-up re foul language.

Posters may ask why is it wrong? My answer is that when I was younger, I was told – would you speak like that to your Mum and if the answer was "No" then it's wrong so don't do it. End of subject.

As for the game – like you, I don't care who plays as long as they give their all, and we win or draw. Thanks again, Danny, and COYB

David Bromwell
91 Posted 15/05/2022 at 08:54:27
I have supported Everton all my life, I am 78 now and will be going to the game today with my two grandsons and their father who will be supporting Brentford. They are supporting Brentford because they are the nearest club to where they live in Surrey.

I used to love travelling to games with supporters from the opposing team, that was always a big part of the match day experience. For years of course, supporters have been kept apart because it's easier to police, but as a result we have lost something very important, the sharing of success and failure before and after the game

With regard to our neighbours, we need to grow up and acknowledge that for years they have been managed better than we have. Of course this is annoying and disappointing but the solution is clearly in our hands, we need to be better in everything we do.

So much of the club's destiny is out of our hands but in recent weeks when the team were clearly in need of extra support, the fans have found an extra voice and a win today should ensure our immediate future in the Premier League. If this happens it will be because of the fans who got behind and in front of the team when it was needed.

For me, if my team cannot win, I prefer that my neighbours win because ultimately that is better for the City. The best days were when we were 1st and 2nd in the league table. Quite simply, they have strengthened their position and we have almost wasted ours away, and all our efforts should be aimed at repairing and rebuilding the club. Let them celebrate their present glory, they have earned it; now we have to go out and earn ours.

Tony Waring
92 Posted 15/05/2022 at 08:57:59
Well said, Bernie. English is a beautiful language – if you can't express yourself in plain English, better to say nowt!

Incidentally who was the Parish Preist who elevated Dave Hickson to sainthood? I probably knew him as well.

Bernie Quinn
93 Posted 15/05/2022 at 09:10:15
Tony Waring - It was Father Bruno Teeley OSB of St Anne's Parish, Ormskirk.
Michael Lynch
94 Posted 15/05/2022 at 09:20:08
Sorry, but you're a better man than me, David. I have a few decent Red Shite mates but that doesn't stop me wanting them to lose every game they play. The only consolation I get from them winning trophies is knowing that, when they watch the highlights of those wins, all they see is an endless penalty shoot-out.

Of course we'll never catch them now. Football is not set up like that; they can pay double the wages we can pay, and attract players we could only sign by paying double their double wages.

Well-run club, yes, but the Premier League is a closed shop now. 63 of the last 64 qualifiers for the Champions League from England have come from the same six clubs.

We're playing for pride these days, Liverpool and the rest of the Sky Six are playing for the trophies.

Danny O’Neill
95 Posted 15/05/2022 at 09:21:13
I don't have a problem with acknowledging how well run they have been, David. I often get told off on here for using them as an example, especially their transfer strategy and dare I say, the decisive move they made to get rid of Rogers when they knew Klopp was available and willing. And then they gave him the 3 or 4 years to build his own team.

Meanwhile, we threw money around like an inexperienced roulette player in a Las Vegas hotel and went through several managers over the same period. It makes all of us feel dirty saying it, but they absolutely nailed it.

I travel the country watching Everton. A home game is an away trip for me and, particularly when we play the London clubs at Goodison, I sit surrounded by the "away" fans on the train, taking the banter and giving it back. West Ham, Tottenham and even with Chelsea who I am always a bit cautious of; I've taken them to pubs or given them advice on where to go and mix with the Everton fans. The spirit of fans mixing is still there for the majority of us. Maybe just not in the ground as much as it used to be.

Here's a point; how much of the alleged potential trouble is overly caused by policing and the authorities creating a division?

I revert back to a derby game a few years ago where they almost tried to treat Liverpool fans like away supporters. Okay, technically they were, but like I'm going to fight with my cousin or nephew? Please.

Idiots will be idiots and we all have our fair share. But most of us will mix and mingle happily if left to it.

Jerome Shields
96 Posted 15/05/2022 at 09:29:38

I agree with your post, though I have got carried away myself. Something not to be proud off, though I always refer to our neighbours as 'Liverpool' in my posts.

Dale Rose
97 Posted 15/05/2022 at 09:36:35
Sick to death of hearing about them. I've always thought their attitude to the FA Cup was disgraceful. I often got the impression if Klopp could have pulled out of it, he would have. I can't stand them.
Danny O’Neill
99 Posted 15/05/2022 at 10:12:14
Matt, I can never get away from the thought there were undercurrents.

English football was dominating Europe and it wasn't liked regardless of the hooligan problem that was prevalent throughout England and Europe. They would have continued to dominate, with Everton leading the charge. We were going to win the European Cup; I was convinced and believe it to this day.

They should have been punished for their actions. Not the entirety of English football. It doesn't excuse for the mismanagement of Everton since, but it contributed significantly.

And I will accept being called bitter on that issue. Bitter with reason and cause and I'll have that conversation with any of them for as long as they want to embarrass themselves justifying the stain they put on our game.

One club's supporters committed a crime (yes) yet all were punished. Apologies, they're still around here lingering like a bad smell and I'm trying to focus on Brentford.

Brian Wilkinson
100 Posted 16/05/2022 at 02:03:07
Ashamed to say that before kick off I had a fiver on the shite to win on penalties at 12/1, I was so sure they would end up winning yet another competition, via a penalty shootout, I would suggest some have the same bet, when they play Madrid, never known a more stuffier team, to win so many competitions, through a penalty shoot out.

I would have quite happily seen my bet go down, had it meant Chelsea doing them.

At least we can say that we have won 9 league titles, without goal difference, won 5 f a cups in 90 mins, and a cup winners cup in 90 mins, without the need of extra time, or penalties.

Stan Schofield
101 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:12:21
Danny @84:

It's important to note also that a root cause of the Hillsborough disaster was the Heysel disaster. Heysel led to fans being caged in, and it was this caging in that led to the deaths at Hillsborough.

Root causes are always the most significant causes of disasters. But the media have tended to ignore this fact in the case of Hillsborough, tending to focus only on immediate causes of the tragedy.

Dave Lynch
102 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:26:34
Another fact ignored, Stan, is the fact that thousands more fans turned up than had tickets. Those pens were rammed when thousands more tried to push in from the back. Footage from the air showed masses of fans still outside the ground during the crush.

It was a tragedy that could have been prevented on a number of counts.

Bill Gall
103 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:38:57
Regarding the use of foul language, of course we nearly all use it but I still believe there is a time and place to use it.

I can still remember in the '60s and '70s, and you were able to go in a pub with your wife and you wouldn't hear people swearing, or if they did, someone would tell them to keep it down as there were woman present. Now, I go back home out for a drink and some of the woman are worse than the men!

I am no prude, I worked in underground mining for 25 years and have been told to Fuck Off in various languages and called worse, but I still try to refrain from abusive language.

But supporting Everton, especially this season, I am not surprised at some of the language used, but they should really realize that there may be children reading these comments... and hey, they may be your own.

Will Mabon
104 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:44:00
Bill, when I started (late '70s) some places had it as akay in the bar or tap room, but not in the lounge.

Women have always been worse than men, they just don't hide it anymore...

Bill Gall
105 Posted 16/05/2022 at 22:44:19

Didn't the police open up a gate to let the late-comers get in? It wasn't a regular turnstile entrance.

Gary Sedgwick
106 Posted 17/05/2022 at 01:39:16
The Merseyside derby was a special, fun fixture when I attended games in the mid/late '80s.

I recall my first derby at Goodison Park and Liverpool were up 3-0 by half-time. I was 17 years old and my face must have looked as ugly as my backside. One of our supporters in the Top Balcony must have seen this as he said, in front of many, "Why the long face, it's only half-time?"

Cracking second half and, although we only pulled two goals back, it was a great performance. That is a memory that always comes back to me when we play our neighbours from across the park.

Others have mentioned Heysel and Hillsborough and, to me, they are the events that turned things sour. Heysel denied us the chance to compete for the then ultimate European title whilst the deaths of 39 people were and still are brushed under the carpet. This disaster happened 14 days after our supporters were praised for how well they had interacted with the local population in Holland and how the night had been a success.

Then came the Hillsborough disaster which, quite rightly, was the news headline on the same day we progressed to the FA Cup Final, later to be joined by Liverpool. It was a perfect occasion for Merseyside to show a united front in the face of adversity... only it wasn't.

I was in attendance at the 1985, 1986 and 1989 finals at Wembley. 1985, 1986 the National Anthem was sung loud and with pride. 1989... our neighbour supporters deemed it better to sing their YNWA tune while the National Anthem was playing which garnered a load of abuse from my fellow Everton supporters... LFC was more important to them than the country as a whole.

To me, that was the demise of the "friendly derby". Events in Heysel, followed by the dissing of the National Anthem, was the straw that eventually broke the camel's back.

Danny O’Neill
107 Posted 17/05/2022 at 06:23:20
They've always done that song thing over the National Anthem, Gary. Royalist or not, it winds me up. They booed Prince William last week. Like their Corbyn banner, they think they're some kind of Derek Hatton militant (hypocrite) / Momentum socialist movement when the reality is a vast majority travel back to their Devon cottages or west London homes having voted Tory for decades. It's staged. It's choreographed. It's false.

I might get slated for this and maybe it was just the time, but back in the day I actually used to enjoy the Anfield derbies more than the Goodison ones. The sight of the Kop being split 2 thirds / one third in a diagonal blue-red mix as you looked at it from the Anfield Road. A massive gap opening up in the middle at half-time as one or two had a Mexican dance-off. Nothing serious, a few missed punches whilst most just clapped and watched the half-time entertainment. Then all reconvened for the 2nd half.

And we got results too. Kevin Ratcliffe. Gary Stevens. Sheedy's free-kick and 2 fingers, even though we lost that one. But won the league.

It's just an opinion, but even back then, the derby atmosphere at Goodison always seemed a bit more toxic.

Dave Lynch
109 Posted 17/05/2022 at 07:09:59
Bill @105.

They did open the gates to try and ease the pressure outside the ground, the ones inside were already at near full capacity. The police though should have dealt with it a lot more efficiently which they didn't, they panicked and... well we all know the result of that awful day.

There were still thousands more fans than had tickets turn up.

Danny O’Neill
110 Posted 17/05/2022 at 07:21:14
It was an issue but I'm not going to be judgemental on fans turning up without tickets.

I done it at the 2009 semi-final and final and watched in pubs close to Wembley to be part of the atmosphere. I didn't storm the ground, but watch some of the scenes for the all Merseyside FA Cup final in the 80s. Blues and Reds scaling the walls. I'm not being over dramatic here, but literally risking their life.

We used to joke about being lifted over the turnstile and I'll be honest, a lot of Evertonians "jumped the gate" at Watford last Wednesday. There were more fans in the away end than should have been if you want to be by the book.

Football grounds are now a lot safer than they were. We've all experienced those crushes and surges. Sometimes they went beyond being uncomfortable. I had to pass my brother over the fans and onto the pitch at Barnsley in an FA Cup match.

The way football grounds used to be and the way we were caged in is not something I would want to go back to. I get enthusiasm, but it seems the mentality of some fans hasn't changed. I'll gladly travel without a ticket. But I won't try to get into the ground if I can't get one.

Ray Roche
111 Posted 17/05/2022 at 07:39:52
And now we have the U-Boat Kapitan saying that ‘there must be a reason why our fans booed the National Anthem', making excuses for them already.

But our name is on the National news for some stupid oaf making racist insults to Brentford players' families. Just a couple of dickheads……..! And the damage they've done.

Danny O’Neill
112 Posted 17/05/2022 at 08:10:27
He clearly hasn't done his research, Ray. They've done it since I can remember and do not represent or reflect our city.

We may have had our differences with Westminster over the years, but the second city of the British Empire has always been a proud part of this country.

I served for 28 years under the Union Flag. My Grandfather moved from Ireland to Speke in the 30s and fought in Burma.

They do not represent our city. We have an opinion but we are not disrespectful. I guarantee some of them will be in my local this week having voted for Boris Johnson and will sing God Save the Queen the next time Eng-ur-land play.

Always outraged, never embarrassed.

Tony Abrahams
113 Posted 17/05/2022 at 08:22:14
Fans were caged-in, well before 1985 Stan. Liverpudlians did turn up in large numbers without tickets, and although they had an average match going attendance with a ratio of around 1 to 1.5 over their opponents, the FA chose to give Forest the end with the big massive terraces, which was probably because of the hooligan situation in England. (It was their excuse anyway)

Hillsborough never even had a safety certificate, it was a disaster waiting to happen once those fences went in, with many Spurs fans saying it could have easily been them if those fences had been erected when they had played wolves inside the same stadium a few years previously.

Maybe it was only certain clubs who had fences up before Heysel, but Everton was definitely one of those clubs, and Spurs fans were very lucky that Hillsborough didn’t.

Brian Murray
114 Posted 17/05/2022 at 08:26:25
There is one massive flag at the end of our road with proper flagpole which got on my nerves every time I passed it. I won’t go into details but that and half the pole is not there anymore. ha ha. small victories eh
Danny O’Neill
115 Posted 17/05/2022 at 09:01:59
Brian!!! Who dunnit?

I sometimes miss the terraces but I don't miss being caged in, which is what I grew up with. The memory fades but didn't Chelsea at one point consider cattle like electric shock fencing? I'm pretty sure it was discussed. We football supporters were literally treated as cattle and 3rd class citizens in sub-standard stadia.

It's interesting because there is an increasing clamour to bring back standing. In honesty, I haven't sat down at any of the away matches I've been to this season. Bring it back, make it safe.

Those crushes were sometimes not pleasant. I know I've said it before, but only weeks before Hillsborough, we got lucky at Barnsley. A decrepit stadium and worryingly similarly, the crowd all congested in the middle pen with the sides being half empty. I've mentioned before, my brother pretty much passed out and along with others had to be passed over the crowd once I and a few others could get enough space behind the crush barrier to be able to lift him.

Fortunately that day, the police realised the situation and opened the gates so people could get out. I'll always remember Neville Southall looking behind the goal with genuine concern at the fans lining up alongside the pitch being treated by the St John's Ambulance match day staff. I'm sure those who were there know how close that was to being our own tragedy.

Leighton Cooper
116 Posted 17/05/2022 at 09:46:17
Brian 108, go back a bit further to the 80s, they won another European cup on penalties too, the Grobelaar wobbly legs shootout.

On them lot turning up without tickets, remember the 2007 champions league final in Athens, thousands turned up without tickets, they were mugging their own fans in particular children at the turnstiles and stormed the outer perimeter, a lot of fans with genuine tickets couldnt get in as the ground was already over its capacity. They are just a bad stain.

Stan Schofield
117 Posted 18/05/2022 at 17:05:03
Tony@113: Yes, you’re right. The point I’m making is that an underlying cause of Hillsborough was caging in, and a cause of caging in was the behaviour of hooligan fans, the Heysel disaster being the worst example of the effect of such hooliganism.

Of course, there’s more than one underlying cause of Heysel, another being the inadequate structural state of the stadium in relation to the ‘reasonably foreseeable’ event of rioting from hooligans and crushing impacts due to such rioting. Modern stadia should be built to withstand any reasonably foreseeable impacts, unlike many old stadia.

Similarly for Hillsborough, the state of the stadium was unsuitable in relation to withstanding reasonably foreseeable crushing, in this case the unsuitability relating to the (reasonably foreseeable) potential to trap and kill people, through the presence of the caging-in.

In the above respects, as I say the caging-in was a cause of Hillsborough (perhaps an obvious statement), and an underlying cause of the caging-in was the behaviour of hooligan fans, the behaviour at Heysel being an example of such behaviour. In this sense, Heysel was an underlying cause of Hillsborough, in that its occurrence gave added credence (in the eyes of decision-makers) to decisions to cage fans in.

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