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1 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:46:40
Benitez = another squad overhaul now, for him, and another one in 12 - 24 months when another manager, completely different again is recruited by Moshiri. How can we ever build something special like this? Why even hire Brands in the first place if your ego won't allow him to make these decisions?
If Bill and Moshiri are not letting Brands go all out to bring Ten Hag in... what is the point :-(
2 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:47:17
3 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:51:23
4 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:53:37
Does Moshiri truly believe he guarantees those targets, how can he? If not then it's a pointless appointment that has no chance of working out well.
Any bad run, or spell of poor football, and lots will be on his back, me included. It's a case of guilty until he proves us otherwise. Many, me included, are not going to give him the benefit of the doubt and it's a long time 'till February and a first possible trophy when large parts of the crowd are against you.
I'll be starting the "Red & White Shite" chant as soon as he comes out of that tunnel on opening day and will not apologise for it to anyone.
5 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:58:07
Moshiri appears to be the one who is making that decision, with or without Brands's help. If he doesn't follow his Director of Football's advice then things are not what they should be.
The French guy and the older German bloke appear to be press red herrings, sadly. Nuno doesn't float my boat and Rafa sinks it. Potter would be fine by me but the compensation to the Seagulls may be prohibitive.
The pool (cess like by now?) grows ever smaller and we look ever more desperate and unprofessional.
Whoever gets it, and I include rotund Hispanic waiting staff, will ultimately get my support because, without the fans' backing, they and we are just in for more mediocrity and heartache.
Let Marcel make the best footballing decision.
6 Posted 18/06/2021 at 08:04:06
Kenwright stands for no radical change in the Club, which gives him his power, and Moshiri stands for controlling finance by the power of his funds. What we are seeing in the media is the power struggle between these two factions. This has been apparent well before this and has underlined the recruitement and removal of managers since Big Sam.
Going forward, today is a dangerous day. Friday is the day the old faithful Joe is given the bad news, so he can develop a sense of acceptance over the weekend. If not it will be next friday and something the same. Meanwhile Everton is being damaged.
This whole debacle shows a lack of real Management and a proper selection procedure, replaced by a factional power struggle. It has left a vaccum which will be filled by protest, anger and a the feeding of a beast of a Media frenzy. All being fed with relish by the parties involved. , trying to gain futile advantage , as far as the interests of Everton are concerned. All self perpetuating Everton's decline. We are now officially a laughing stock. Noone out there actually believes any of this will make any difference to Everton's fortunes on the pitch in the coming seasons.
Getting even more like Blood Brothers everyday.
7 Posted 18/06/2021 at 08:43:48
At WBA, I thought Allardyce did a very good job in fairness. He made the most of some limited players alongside the excellent Matteus Perreira. The football was quite good at times.
At Everton, I thought he bottled it after steadying a ship that wasn't especially unsteady anyway. It was as though he was in relegation fire-fighting mode and couldn't get his head round the idea that there was more to management. There was absolutely nothing to our attack under Allardyce as a consequence. He chucked away his big chance to become a respected manager at a proper club.
At Newcastle, I can't recall Benitez ever managing to find any chemistry or quality in attack. As many have pointed out, Steve Bruce is doing a better job.
So I can't really see why we'd expect anything more from Rafa than a continuation of the very boring and disappointing last 6 months. Likewise if we rehired Allardyce.
The trouble with both of them is short-termism. So with a comparatively weak squad they will both seek to grind their way to a top half league placing with mature players less likely to make mistakes. There will be no eye on a higher, future prize because managers like this know they are not part of that future.
And it is this approach that is killing the club. It puts us not only out of reach of unlikely top 4 aspirations, it also puts us out of reach of the disappointing heights Moyes reached for a decade.
8 Posted 18/06/2021 at 08:50:17
Whether there is serious discord at board level might not be accurate but there is certainly some different opinions playing a part and that is why we are seeing the leaking of just enough information to gauge supporters' reaction to certain potential candidates – eg: Rafa in particular.
As you say, we are not alone in trying to make the right choice; Spurs and to a lesser extent Crystal Palace are also having issues having to choose from a small pool of quality contenders.
After so much debate, no choice is going to be received positively by everybody and, from my point of view, they can take as much time as they want as long as they get it right.
9 Posted 18/06/2021 at 09:27:35
10 Posted 18/06/2021 at 09:30:39
In a scenario like Everton's current plight, scapegoatism is always part of the package. Ask Brands, if you can find him.
11 Posted 18/06/2021 at 09:46:49
12 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:05:43
He is a Iranian born UK businessman. He is not an agent recognised by the Premier League, but styles himself as an advisor to clubs and players. He has investment interest in over 70 players, mostly South American.
It has been reported at various times and via different outlets that he is an advisor to Moshiri and is part of the manager recruitment team, though this has not been verified. It has been reported that the manager recruitment team consisted if Brands, Kenwright, Moshir and another. This fourth person has been both rumoured to be Kia, or another, what I consider to be a reliable source, is not, but someone else.
On pure speculation, I would say that is Usmanov. Kia originally was reported as being involved in drawing up a list of candidates, though I would have thought the manager of River Plate would have been on the list. He wasn't. At the moment, he has appeared to disappear.
13 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:09:38
You've admitted previously that you have no source for your conspiracy theories beyond the interminable depth of your overly fertile imagination.
How then does your claim for Moshiri and Kenwright being on opposite sides with respect to Benitez square with this information:
"Well, it sounds as if there are two big proponents for Benitez in Moshiri and Bill Kenwright. Moshiri is the one said to be the one that is pushing ahead with a deal for the Spaniard, while Duncan Castles reported previously on the Transfer Window podcast that Benitez was Kenwrights next choice after David Moyes."?
14 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:11:10
Until that moment arrives, no manager is capable of building a cohesive side with a plan, a system, an ethos and an identity.
I was and still am upset by Carlo Anchelotti's playing style and manner of departure but Jerome is correct – he was wise enough to see the foregoing.
15 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:14:30
If the football team continues to be run like it's the personal property of one individual, then the financial resources provided by that person will not help to build a cohesive team particularly if that individual appears to be blind to the realities of its limitations because he spent so much of his or the club's money on it.
From the outside, it appears that this owner will not listen to anybody at the club with real football knowledge, when major decisions about the direction of travel are required. The new stadium in isolation will not provide a miraculous path to glory, but it has become somewhat of a necessity for a major club in the 21st-century.
The stadium will be as much use as an injury-prone, over-the-hill striker, if the football team continues to be overseen by an owner, who wants to intervene in and override every decision that is made.
Bill Kenwright got away with that type of ownership for so long because he was or is seen as a true blue who had his heart in the right place, but lacked the resources to be able to achieve what the fans dreamt of.
Moshiri is an unknown quantity to most of the fans, and the only thing that Moshiri has of theirs - apart from the club itself - is their trust, if he breaks that trust by continuing to do as he pleases without acknowledging the effect it has on those fans who have remained loyal to the club for so long, then he is in danger of doing further damage to the club and its image, and of course, more importantly to him, it might do untolled damage to the value of his asset.
I don't know if any or all of what I've just written is anywhere near the truth or a flight of fancy, but what I do know is that the leaders at the club need to be better at communicating their aims and ambitions to each other first and foremost and when it's prudent to the rest of us.
They say that it is always darkest before the dawn, but as fans, we don't know how dark it may get or how long it may be until dawn arrives.
16 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:18:47
There was a massive backlash to the possibility of Moyes being appointed in late 2019, we might be in a better position today if we hired him back then.
One final point, it should be the Director of Football who appoints the new manger, not anyone else, and certainly not the contributors to this forum.
17 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:34:28
It will be ultimately Moshiri who will decide, using his advised judgement, who is the Manager. Kenwright will either agree or disagree according his own criteria.
Moshiri selected Big Sam, Silva and Anchelotti. Kenwright either agreed or disagreed. What happened after the Manager was installed played out accordingly. There comes a time in such a scenario where there is conflict, since it is nothing more than a power struggle.
I don'thing of this being a conspiracy it just a fact regarding organisations where control and power(financial) are not in the same hands Both parties are trying to run the Club according to different objectives.
A teams performance is determined by the calibre of the Management both on and of the pitch. You can not just parachute a Team Manager in and hope for the best.
Media speculation on who backs whom I find is futile, because sides can switch and say they support someone they don't.
I wish I was imagining what I am seeing at the moment regarding this debacle.
18 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:37:49
Whether he would do a good job is open to debate. He has a good CV, but it is a good few years since he won anything. Ancelotti came with a better record but that was also in the past and he did little to enhance his reputation in the time he was here; more likely, he tainted that reputation.
There is not any outstanding names available for the position and all we can do is join the guessing game as to who the will finish up as manager. For many of us Bluenoses, at the moment, the future doesn't look good and, when you look at the state of the boardroom, it gets even worse. I'm getting my prayer mat out that things will get better, starting with a good manager. That means an awful lot of prayers.
19 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:02:05
This whole debacle is making the club even more of a circus than it was before, the Pity Being it isn't a Billy Smart type Circus it's one of those cheap and nasty ones with about 4 staff who do everything from Box office to shovelling Elephant crap.
Ken Wright and his magical hedgehogs.
20 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:05:26
I agree with you regarding Kenwright. But the way I see the Benitez situation is that Kenwright does not want him, because he will be difficult to control and has a reputation of taking on hierarchies in Clubs he has Managed. a Fedup Farhad Moshiri is now prepared to install him as a kind if shock treatment for the Club, though imo the outcome is unpredictable. Benitez would be happy enough with a fat contract, job close to home and a billionaire owner's backing. As for the fans they should be easier managed than the Geordies.
21 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:06:23
We need to take a minute to applaud the genius of this headline given Moshiri's initial "museum" observation - great stuff Lyndon.
I suspect the recent directorship "promotions" for Brands are a way of keeping him onside should his advice not be taken.
22 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:10:08
The scale of the backlash to it is understandable, and in either situation it paints the club in a bad light. Frankly Im feeling very ‘done with all of it.
23 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:13:01
24 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:27:21
I guess he is more dispassionate than most of us about previous comments Benitez has made. (I loved the latter's attempts by way of the "small team" explanation - did Benitez advise Demonic Cummings over what to say about Barnard Castle?)
If Benitez is appointed (and I hope not) most us will still be here long after the latest mercenary has gone. I would give him two years maximum.
25 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:44:14
Or. We bring in a divisive manager and Brands takes till the last few days to bring in new faces.
Seems very likely now that these media outbursts about who is next have indeed been feelers. Pretty pathetic that our owner still doesn't understand what we are and what we demand to be.
26 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:05:55
I can only think that the reason Moshiri & Co are not going for a 'young manager with a plan' is that they think our current dressing room needs a strong hand and tough task master.
The fans may crave a young passionate manager who plays front-foot football but Benitez is the one with the fearsome reputation in coercing individuals into the team.
Rafa, in that sense, is a logical choice but still one that is a big mistake. If there was one thing our abysmal home record showed last season, it is that the fans need to be around and on board.
27 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:27:02
28 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:29:26
29 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:39:57
30 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:40:27
If it was all on a zoom call, how could I possibly know? Exactly I say, take no fuckin notice of me!
Why would any Evertonian want Agent Benitez? I love Evertonians, but our club is full of them, and because it's a very long time since we could ever be described as winners, the harsh reality is, we need real change, away from a cozy little place, that is full of familiarity.
31 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:45:06
32 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:00:45
Very interesting. Is Usmanov the Fourth Man?
33 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:06:39
The trouble is, like Ancelotti, he is not a magician. In fact, he's very much a poor man's Ancelotti and latterly even a poor man's Bruce or the Spanish Allardyce.
So, if we're going to appoint a deeply uninspiring, average, has-been, why does it have to be this one?
There are plenty of other average, has-been managers to pick from.
34 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:33:27
35 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:42:31
Benitez would keep all the hangers-on and nothing will change under his stewardship. If it is him, though, we have no option other than to accept it or not bother watching the Blues at all, which I think a lot of fans may decide to do. Personally, I'd back him until it was obviously doomed to failure.
36 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:48:31
I can only presume either Dunc doesn't actually want the job (contrary to popular belief) or Brands et al have run the rule over him and don't think he's good enough? It seems mad to me that given the situation, we wouldn't at least take a chance for a season with Ferguson. I would understand the calls for experience had this been mid-way through a season and we were struggling.
37 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:01:44
I have always felt Usmanov is lurking in the background here. Moshiri isn't rich enough to risk the amount of money this club has spent in recent years. That has been the tragedy for me, after a decade or more of having a skint owner, finally we get some real budget but it gets blown on mediocrities.
In my opinion, the owner(s) have an unusual opportunity right now in relation to supporter expectations. If the right candidate could be found (Potter?) who would be part of a commitment to recruit young hungry players playing progressive football, I think we as fans might be willing to be more patient than might normally be the case. All we need to is avoid relegation which should be more than possible. Given all the dross we have put up with recently, the right long term project with the right people is something I'd be willing to give time, multiple years, to work. We can't go on with this hiring and firing. That is the problem with Benitez, patience with him will be in short supply among the supporters if results are poor. His recruitment will sharply increase the odds of us being on our 10th manager in little more than 5 years. We can't go on like that.
38 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:05:21
39 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:06:22
40 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:14:49
Being realistic, I would give him a chance in the same way I did Allardyce (which I also thought was a humiliating appointment). I'll be disillusioned, certainly, as I consider this worse than Allardyce but it doesn't stop me supporting the team.
In any case, my anger at this won't be directed at Benitez personally, it will be directed at the club management if they choose to appoint him. They have managed to waste a wonderful opportunity over the past 5 years and the appointment of Benitez would indicate that wasted opportunity is all part of the next 5 years too.
41 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:32:03
Really? Hand over a re-building job to someone who, as far as we know, has never been involved in contributing to player recruitment? It seems mad to me that we would do that.
Do people imagine Big Dunc carries around a folder labelled “My managerial plans” in a state of perpetual readiness for when the big day finally arrives?
I presume some transfer deals are already in progress and Brands will keep plugging away, but with the various international compwtitions at the moment, there probably isn't a great amount of dealing to be done at the moment. The players are all on their holibobs so why not take a bit of time over this appointment to really try to make a decent choice?
42 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:03:19
43 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:10:11
Excellent piece as always.
The truth is none of us knows what is really going on at GP or FF but we do know its not good.
Managers and players thrive in a well run club that has harmony.
When it is dysfunctional as it seems to be even the best do not achieve their capabilities.
What we do know is there is a lack of any "real" football people at the top of the club.
Moshiri may be good with money but is a fantasist at football.
Kenwright is just a dreamer.
DBB need I say anything.
Ryantz is a finance man.
Brands is the only one with football knowledge and experience yet appears to be overridden on occasions.
When a manager comes in and is controlled by a dysfunctional board we get nowhere and that is exactly where we have been headed since Kenwright took over apart from a few years under Moyes which is the only decision Kenwright has ever got lucky with.
44 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:15:44
I would give him a chance. No choice.
Because when Everton are playing, like a lot of fans, I watch them. Sometimes a bit like when you get one in the 'nevers' and you double up. The cause and the effect are both undesirable but the link between the two unbreakable.
45 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:16:44
46 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:27:37
I will continue to go to Goodison if Benitez is appointed. I support Everton Football Club.
However, his arrival would not sit comfortably with me. I have never liked the man, he spouts some absolute drivel at times. He would also have very little goodwill, the crowd would have no patience or tolerance, and it would take very little for the atmosphere to turn hostile – I'm tired of that.
If for no other reasons than those, it would be a foolish appointment.
47 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:27:41
48 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:49:15
He may or may not be a good possibility, but he sure as hell isn't a "joke".
49 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:56:07
Where did you get this Usmanov story? These things seem to pop up routinely. Obviously USM has involvement but I would have thought that if Usmanov was calling the shots then someone by now would have got this to the press. Most obvious candidate being Bill Kenwright who has no problem telling the press anything and everything (unless it's a question about his own actions)
Alan Brazil on Talksport claims that his "Everton source" (Maybe Kenwright?) says Brands is willing to resign if Benitez comes on board
50 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:58:50
True point; the truth is, we don't what is going on behind the scenes. Perhaps Brands is leading the charge on behalf of the owner and doing his due diligence on potential candidates as well as looking for ones not even being mentioned by the press or that we know about.
There are never any knowns in the appointment of managers or the purchase of players in football. But maybe, for once, there is realisation at the top that we have got this wrong too many times recently. I'll give them that they were caught off guard with Ancelotti's seemingly sudden departure. So the hope is, they have learned lessons and are approaching this with much more consideration this time and letting the DoF do his job.
Please let them surprise me. But I've just read back and realised I used words like "perhaps", "maybe" and "hope" (again).
52 Posted 18/06/2021 at 16:27:45
53 Posted 18/06/2021 at 16:55:36
A couple of random things: First, tried to search but whoever suggested preservation of player valuations and getting the locker room under control would be Moshiri's motivations, I agree. This might explain a divergence between Moshiri, Bill and Brands. Owners don't like being embarrassed by their product and it could be motivating their rather paleolithic approach. Second, ah crap, senior moment, hold on with that.
Oh yeah, the wait. This is the price for not coming to the microphone and explaining the last breakdown. I really don't trust anyone but Brands for that take and clearly some don't want him broadcasting that. Wait it out, it is painful but it is not the deathknell of our club. KNELL!
54 Posted 18/06/2021 at 17:03:12
55 Posted 18/06/2021 at 17:13:04
"but we may all be pleasantly surprised" Wise words. I remember brown nosing and lobbying for a new manager in my career field. Quickly realized that was a mistake and fermented an insurrection to get rid of that boss. Meanwhile, I've had others I thought would be a nightmare and have ended up having fruitful working relationships with.
56 Posted 18/06/2021 at 17:27:06
But, as far as Everton's wages are concerned, if you take a look at 2016-2020 (the most recent figures), wages went from £84M to £165M. That's an increase of £81M during the same period that revenue only increased by £60M. Some of that was on the back of the unusual naming rights deal for Bramley-Moore Dock.
57 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:01:55
58 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:14:22
Ancelotti was a rat for what he did and I think he did it because he realized that the premier league was beyond his capabilities at the time in his career. But hes gone and we move in.
Whether its Benitez, Nuno, Potter or Favre, I dont know but I do believe the board will make the right choice for manager which will be best for EFC.
I myself have stated that Kenwrught and Moshiri are secret Kopites given some of the shenanigans which have gone on since Farhad came in. But I do believe the club is on the up and the right decision of manager will be made.
Sports reporting at the moment is so poor makes you wonder if we will ever get as good a read as this article
59 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:26:07
But, if it is, and whoever it is, we have no option to give them a chance as we want Everton to win. Depending on who it is will undoubtedly dictate how long that chance lasts with the supporters.
I couldn't stand Allardyce. I was dismayed we appointed him and wanted him gone as soon as possible. Some couldn't abide Ancelotti, but we all wanted Everton to win and be successful.
The longer this drags on, the more I'm hopeful we are giving this careful consideration and seeking options.
I'm using words based on "hope" again. Not words like confident.
60 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:32:47
Yes glad to hear that. Money men tend to get a bit tichey when someone tries to speak with authority using their money.
61 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:36:25
Moshiri will be on his sofa in Monoco, watching Italian Television with subtitles and no sound, when the new Manager is announced.
62 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:47:43
63 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:48:25
64 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:52:42
But you know some things never change.
Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has got one.
I've read some incoherent nonsense in my time, but some of these posts and some of the logic in this article simply make me laugh out loud.
How disconnected from reality this article is, and all the noise engulfing anger pouring out from some of you is truly astounding.
The entire case for this article is "we don't know what are you doing, tell us what you are doing, we don't know anything - ARGGHHHHH" then a series of jigsaw thinking based on news articles, unverified and unsubstantiated rumour and supposition.
Clearly, most on this website don't want Rafa.
Most of you also if I remember spent 11yrs going on about how dreadful Moyes was.
I also remember how many of you bemoaned and ridiculed Martinez
Don't recall Koeman, or Allardyce or Silva or Ancelotti - but I'm sure there were many on this site that screamed murder at all of them.
You're not all happy, are you?
What are the alternatives in the real world?
Look at Spurs, Palace - they're looking also, but it's a tough market to hire right now...
I couldn't care less who Benitez managed beforehand, just like I didn't care that Sheedy used to play for the Reds...
I care that we win games, and I would really like us to win a trophy again.
All of this "Moshiri is ruining the club" Do you guys/gals not remember the years and years and years of zero investment?
I want us to move to a new stadium on the Dock Road, and I want investment to buy players and keep the better players.
If Benitez brings us success, and from the list of other candidates available, he has the better CV. The noise about his time at Newcastle - he's not won anything for ages, well I would say getting them promoted and staying in the League 10th and 14th I think - that's like winning the FA Cup for Newcastle, on that budget (none) can any of you name a single player he had in his team? And all of this - he is boring to watch - really? with that win record and trophy haul?
With who is available... and if you cry foul from the highest mountains about Benitez, why isn't anyone screaming about Duncan getting the job? With budget, with backing... Coleman and Baines promoted up...
The problem with all that is we all know what will happen.
Nice on the heart, but we will get relegated...
We need someone who has been there and got the scars.
We don't need a Potter or a Howe to do another Silva and Martinez and Koeman...
To be honest, nothing is worse than Allardyce and Sammy Lee Sammy Lee... remember that... Sammy Lee...
On a last note and apologies if someone has already mentioned this in an article or post. Real Madrid and Barcelona both currently managed by Ex-Everton Managers... think that's a first.
You know what - lets get Conte in and give him £500m to spend and cut our loses on the players we need to cut, pay out their contracts and get rid. That's what Moshiri gives us... have a look at Benitez's player record - he's recruited some great talent when he's had the funds... Conte? hmmmm
TELL US WHAT YOU ARE DOING MOSHIRI - FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST TELL US WITH ALL YOUR MONEY AND INVESTMENT...
I prefer to just remain calm and wait - with the money and investment we have today - thanks entirely to Moshiri, I would take this as opposed to the years of under-investment and Kenwright not having any cash, and Moyes never beating top 4 sides as he went to all away games to park a bus and act like a "small club" and get a draw (as that was meant to feel like a win) or to not simply get hammered - which we did, regularly because - he did, and we all remember that's what he did, and he's doing it again at The Hammers... Moyes brought us down to a level of mediocrity and small thinking where we lost our identity as a big club with aspirations and goals and a winning mentality... and it was infuriating as there were times where we just wanted Moyes to go for it... but I don't see anyone getting all angry about the idea of Moyes returning (before he extended his contract) don't you all remember he walked away to United and then came back to gut the club - remember? "I would never stand in the way of a player if he wanted to leave and join a bigger club..." Remember? - oh what you're saying Moyes, is. that we are a small club? (ahem)
You know what... think about it... what Benitez said, the reason why it causes so much anger... perhaps because there is more than an element of truth behind what he said.
If Moshiri appoints Benitez as manager and gives him a great budget, and we sell some deadwood, and he trains up youth and brings back loanees... and Coleman/Baines/Duncan get more coaching experience... and he goes all out to win a trophy next year (he's won more trophies - bar our last manager!! than our other last 5 managers - combined...)
Then I would support him.
It would rile up the Reds.
And better still - it would perhaps shake up some of you on this message board - stir up some reality checks about who we are, what we are, where we are, where we are going...
Same noise as those of you who want to stay at Goodison.
Head in the sand... no sense of reality.
Just remember - Allardyce - and Sammy Lee
nothing ever could get worse than that... ever...
Remember how we played...
And I don't care Carlo left, at the beginning, it was ace, the signings, awesome... but 10th and the way we played at the end... bye bye and thanks for telling DCL to score some goals...
Whoever it is, and I would be happy with Benitez, nothing could hurt as much as Allardyce and Sammy Lee...
That's what a small club does folks
65 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:53:51
I have been quietly concerned about our ownership for some time. No part of recent events have alleviated my fears there either.
We are in danger of becoming the crazy cat ladys club at this rate. We have no chance of any real success with such a counterproductive structure underpinning the clubs decision making model. Five hundred odd million pissed away and apparently the penny still hasn't dropped. What a time to be an Evertonian, what a time to be alive.
66 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:15:27
As Lyndon infers, nobody has any idea who is really heading the search for a manager and most of we hear is speculation from journalists and sports writers who say they have inside information.
The closest information is the odds bookies offer as they are one company that do not like to loose money and even they are not always rite.
I keep an open mind on who the manager will be and support him, but will say, that with the last name for manager no news is good news.
I fully supported Ancelotti when he was hired and hoped he was going to continue, but all my respect for him went out the window with how he left. With all the managers we hired since Moyes left he is the one who simply kicked the club in the balls and I hope supporters remember this.
I hope the Owner and directors don't panic and hire someone just to have someone in place soon, but carefully vet every name to insure they get the person who can move the club forward with a style and tactics that will win over the fans, even if to some of them it is controversial.
67 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:19:57
Nuno was reportedly a done deal. It wasn't. Rafa reportedly had an offer and all he needed to do was sign. Clearly he didn't. I'm not going to get riled up or cast aspersions on the club until I actually know what's going on.
68 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:50:19
Instead we are back in the bargain bin looking at sticking plaster managers whilst Moshiri and USM start the regeneration of the North end with the Russian Rubles flowing.
He has taken ownership of the club and in 5 years hasn't got rid of Kenwright or seriously altered the ethos at the club. I was hoping that he would get us challenging and steadily improve and raise our profile. His Motives for buying the club are looking less like bringing us back from the dead year on year.
69 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:51:38
70 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:56:25
71 Posted 18/06/2021 at 22:17:55
72 Posted 18/06/2021 at 22:23:21
73 Posted 18/06/2021 at 23:38:58
Why? Because even though you recognize in your opening paragraph that the search for a new manager is bedevilled by ‘swirling speculation, erratic reports and planted narratives you yourself succumb to the charge that ‘perception has become reality.
You yourself write that Carlo Ancelottis departure was sudden and unexpected. The club was totally blindsided and unprepared for this. This is not their failing.
It is just over two weeks that this was sprung on Everton. Unlike Spurs, who sacked Mourinho mid-April so have had much longer to find someone to replace him. Two months on, still no new manager in situ at Spurs. Sheffield United took two and a half months to replace Chris Wilder.
Similar could be said of Palace and WBA where, unlike Everton, it was known before the end of the season that Roy Hodgson and Sam Allardyce were leaving. Still both looking to appoint a new manager. Wolves did likewise with NES and seemingly had a succession plan in place. It still took them longer than Everton to date to name their new man.
In your own editorial you also admit ‘Without any concrete information, none of us mere mortal supporters knows what the real story is and it would appear that the media arent much the wiser.
Yet knowing all this you choose to conclude that the club ‘is a circus…wracked by indecision and internal conflict.
Why the negative assessment of the club? Why should the club make a public statement, daily or otherwise, on the search for a new manager as you and others suggest?
In everything and anything Ive read or heard about the search for a new manager nothing – nothing at all! – can be traced back to the club and its officers as its source. If many choose to give credence to such gossip (and this from ‘the meedjah that many of the posters express contempt for) then that is their prerogative. I would add it is also their failing, not the clubs.
On what now stretches into thousands of posts on the subject on TW, the club, the board, the owner and individual directors are attributed as being stupid, negligent, unmindful of the fan base, indulging in Machiavellian and subversive practices that wouldnt be out of place in a John le Carré novel. And a lot more besides, many of which contradict other charges laid against them.
Whatever happened to the rationale of critical thinking?
Nothing in the public domain about Evertons search for a new manager is first hand, not even second hand. Its all third-fourth-fifth hand, founded on out-and-out speculation.
The ‘meedjah. Online bookies. Fans.
Nobody. Knows. Nuffink.
Yet so many believe…everything.
74 Posted 18/06/2021 at 23:45:18
75 Posted 19/06/2021 at 00:43:45
I didnt conclude this at all. What I said was that if perception is reality then the club has become a circus. I didnt say it was a circus; I merely inferred that it looks that way from the outside.
I admit that the headline is a little more conclusive than the general thrust of the article, which was essentially to illustrate that the lack of communication is fostering frustration and the deepening links with Benitez are causing angst, to the degree that offensive banners are being hung outside Goodison Park.
The article is laced with caveats that we dont know what is truly going on but the narrative that has persisted since Koeman was sacked of differing opinions and boardroom disagreements over candidates is never challenged. Either someone wants it that way or its just bad PR.
76 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:07:03
Few people expect a running commentary from our boardroom, unless it's about charity of course. It's the only thing they've had a modicum of visible success in after all.
77 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:34:46
78 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:42:43
79 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:42:43
You don't use the conditional 'if' at all. Your first sentence sets the scene ('Amid swirling speculation, erratic reports and planted narratives within a vacuum of communication from the people in charge) followed by a declarative statement ('perception has become reality and, in the wake of Carlo Ancelottis sudden departure, Everton resembles something of a circus at the moment').
The second sentence in your opening paragraph uses the modal verb 'may' (for possibility) highlighted in italics. ('Things may be under control behind the scenes, with Marcel Brands diligently fulfilling his brief as Director of Football and calmly assessing a list of managerial candidates to fill the Italians shoes'), followed by the conjuction 'but' which is used to contrast the first clause with a contrary view ('but the impression from the outside is of a club wracked by indecision and internal conflict').
So sorry again Lyndon, but you are not 'inferring' at all. Twice you make two clear declarative statements that 'Everton resembles a circus...wracked by indecision and internal conflict', reinforced as you yourself note by the declarative unequivocal headline to your editorial.
They are declarations I don't agree with.
80 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:45:51
81 Posted 19/06/2021 at 04:06:54
You could and ought to have just written that.
"The second sentence in your opening paragraph uses the modal verb 'may' (for possibility) highlighted in italics. ('Things may be under control behind the scenes, with Marcel Brands diligently fulfilling his brief as Director of Football and calmly assessing a list of managerial candidates to fill the Italians shoes'), followed by the conjuction 'but' which is used to contrast the first clause with a contrary view ('but the impression from the outside is of a club wracked by indecision and internal conflict')."
Thanks for the rather dull English lesson I guess.
If this was any other poster you'd think it was a wind up. Lyndon would have to be one of the most articulate posters here, yet he gets a crash course in writing for comprehension! Truly bizarre.
For what it's worth, the club certainly does appear a circus from the outside - as gleeful fans of other clubs keep telling me. For all the semantics and long winded posts nothing substantive was offered on why Lyndon was incorrect, other than an explanation of "I don't agree".
The alternative to a "circus" would be a well run, thorough and professional organization. Jay, in less than a billion words, would you care to explain why you feel Everton more resemble the latter than Lyndons characterization?
82 Posted 19/06/2021 at 04:15:11
I thought about it but you did it. Saved me the hassle. Im enjoying my Darrenless honeymoon too much. Makes me think of the old joke “who led the pedants revolt?” Which Tyler.
83 Posted 19/06/2021 at 05:46:28
The whole point of the article is that things may not be as they appear but in the absence of anything concrete, with the old adage of “no smoke without fire” and with the unilateral appointment of Allardyce as a precedent, speculation and frustration is filling the void.
Ill say it again, through four years of managerial upheaval under Moshiri and even with a Director of Football in place, no one has moved to dispel the narrative of disagreement / conflicting voices behind the scenes. The longer that confusion is allowed to fester, the more it opens the hierarchy up to the assumption/belief that there isnt a coherent strategy.
Again, they may want it that way but the angst caused in the interim only increases the pressure to get the final appointment right.
84 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:22:20
Some think that Rafa Benitez belongs to another time. Really? Lets see the evidence. A biased but researched thread:
At Chelsea, he left them third and Europa League winners (one of the 13 titles won in his career!!!)
At Napoli he won 2 titles to a Juve that used to win everything. Plus a semis of the Europa League. He signed Albiol, Reina, Koulibaly, Jorginho, Higuaín, Callejón... last season the club called him four time to take over the side again
At Real Madrid, he left the team top of the Champions League and clearly with options in the league. Six months is no time to evaluate anything like others would tell you (Lopetegui, for instance)
At Newcastle, not only Rafa took the team up as Champions, he kept them up and made them solid while making £30m to the club (that is, with a squad which quality was being reduced, something no other manager had had to deal with at that extend in the last decade at the club)
In China (Dalian Professional) he changed the first team mentality and imposed modern methodology throughout the club. They wanted him to stay two more seasons, €12m net. He needed to go back to family in the middle of a pandemic. Money is not his motivation, a top project is
Not to mention he carries the incalculable value of experience in the Premier League and the knowledge of how the city of Liverpool works and thinks.
Right now, and fans do not see this, the club clearly needs a shake up indoors. That is the conclusion of the owners Its a turning point for Everton and for owners Moshiri but mostly Usmanov
Two forces are at play and fans should consider that -those that want nothing to change and in fear of it, and those -the ambitious Usmanov included- that feel club needs an impulse from top to bottom
It does look more like a plea for a client/friend than anything concrete and Guillem Balague may just have read TW and other fansites to jump to the conclusion that something is broken at Everton and needs fixing, with according to Balague, Benitez being a central plank to carry out those repairs.
85 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:31:47
86 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:40:45
I really couldn't give a monkeys about past comments made or who he managed in the past.
Our Club needs "fixing" and if he is the man to do it then so be it.
I wanted Potter or Howe but if Rafa may be the answer then I am happy to give him a chance.
We need a fix and fast.
87 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:42:31
88 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:46:43
A near reality check then.
89 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:56:01
As far as Benitez goes listen he is tactically very very good our problems are not just crap managers but more shite players..I don't like the idea of an ex red manager but we are going into another season way off the pace yet again..someone has to redress this situation and right now I don't have a first choice manager in mind Conte would be astounding but inevitable problems would lie ahead..Nuno...is a no no for me don't know why just a feeling...success is pace and we have none..quite a few of the current team just need to go that was evident before Carlo brought in the players he did...they got injured we were back to square one...right now I am worried about this coming season
90 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:01:02
91 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:01:41
92 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:16:59
Your Two Forces quote is easy to understand and I do believe there are Two forces, but it is imo more complicated than change via ambition. For some reason it suits the Moshiri &Co to have Kenwright &Co in place. There would appear to a agreement between both parties from the outset, probably formal , on who runs the Club, controlling demarcation of roles. Recent Board promotions reinforce this. The exception is the Manager Role. It appears that Moshiri &Co want to be arms length, for their own reasons. The resulting Two Forces are Control and Power. The problem is they are not both heading in different directions.
So if even if Benitez is appointed will the Power Force disappear and leave the Control Force to get on with the job, as they have done in the past.
The problem is that the Power Force does not want to change the arrangement. They want to parachute in a Manager with their idea that he will be able to injuice necessary changes both on the pitch and off it.
Anchelotti was forced to resort to Public pronouncements against all and sundries within Everton to try to change things. He left soon after that beaten. Benitez will be the same, unless he insists on backroom changes as a condition of taking the Manager's role. We already know the opinion of the Control Force regarding Benitez. The process to get rid has already start. If Benitez is not able to start the change process immediately , if selected, he is beat before the season starts. If he is able to, there will be marginal success. Real Success would only achieved if change is actually implemented as your Two Forces quote suggests. The Manager simply does not have the power to do that
93 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:41:04
Since Liverpool Benitez took over Inter which carried all before them under Mourinho, they had just won a treble (cups and CL), and had won five titles and a second place finish pre-Benitez but the Spaniard led them to a dismal sixth when he was sacked. He did win the charity shield and club World Cup, two trophies he only qualified for thanks to his predecessor.
He took over Chelsea who had won the Champions League the season before. Benitez guided them to third (in years between 2003-15 they finished lower than third once and third only three times). They were knocked out of the Champions League( mostly due to Di Matteo) and he won Europa League( a competition they rarely entered). He failed to win a cup or the world club cup.
Next to Napoli where in his two seasons he guided them to third and fifth. They had finished second the season before and four times in that decade. Once again the fifth place finish was their worst for a decade and only eclipsed by the disastrous season under Ancelotti. It was however at Napoli where he had his only significant real achievement in the last decade in winning the Cup. He did have a favourable run and only beat Fiorentina in the final but still an excellent achievement all the same. He also won the Charity Shield there also.
Newcastle most will know was pretty uninspiring except for his promotion with the richest club in the division as was a poor spell in China.
94 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:51:47
95 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:01:26
How can we have any kind of working strategy?
Koeman got Cuco & Klaasen. Walsh got Siggy, Keane, Pickford.
Silva came in with Richarlison.
Allardyce Walcott and Tosun.
Brands got Digne, Mina, Godfrey, Doucoure, lwobi (ffs).
Carlo got Allan, James.
I've missed lots out but you can fill in the gaps.
Surely now its time to finally... finally let Brands do his job.
Shape and balance the squad.
Hire a coach that plays to their strengths and not have him get his couple players into the mix.
If it doesn't work out then hire another coach that at least has something to work with and not have to constantly re-shape, re-recruit and then have Brands spend half his time trying to rid us of players that are either not good enough or don't fit.
I've lost count of the number of players we still have on the books that we don't need... even after we've just finally got shut of a handful of them.
96 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:10:48
97 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:14:39
Unfortunately for me, by the time I realised that the main body of the post should have been italicised to let the reader know that that part of my post were the words of Guillem Balague I had missed the time frame to edit it properly.
My own words are the first and final paragraphs of the post.
Sorry for the confusion and I take on board that I will have to meet a higher journalistic standard before posting any more bits of information that I think might interest the TW family.
98 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:17:21
Everton must rebuild from scratch and that will take years. there are no short cuts. Alternatively, it would be apt if they give it to Big Dunc and then we can start from the absolute ground level in a year's time from the next league down.
99 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:30:28
100 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:33:19
101 Posted 19/06/2021 at 14:38:47
102 Posted 19/06/2021 at 14:40:11
103 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:14:01
I do think its a very dangerous situation bringing a manager into Everton who the fans dont want though, but if Id put £500 million, into Everton, Id also have similar views to what Usmanov, is supposedly saying, because its been obvious to me for many years, that Everton need a proper shake-up.
26 years without a trophy, definitely means the Everton way, has failed beyond expectation, and we are definitely a club in need of a thorough change.
104 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:21:45
Thats a very accurate though frightening comparison
105 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:24:07
Also, protests about individual candidates are ridiculous and childish. The only thing that matters is how the next manager gets us to perform on the pitch, and nobody knows how any potential candidate will perform if appointed.
Keep calm, carry on, and wait patiently.
106 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:30:54
When you look at the likes of Aston Villa and Leeds, both relegated and now look stronger, maybe the realisation for some will only be just that and clear the decks aonce and for all with an intent to starting building with a purpose.
107 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:33:33
Personally, I think wishful thinking on his part, because as you say, they would take him back tomorrow overwhelmingly.
We do need a shake up. We've been cosy Everton living within our nostalgia and old-boys set up for too long without success and I'm as guilty as anyone.
Time to break the shackles and let whoever the decision maker is do his thing, regardless of what we think (within reason). That may be unpopular in the short term but we need to look forward. Remember the nostalgic past but not live in it.
I always remember an interesting phrase the Chelsea fans used to coin towards Liverpool when they were having their spat in the height of Mourinho's first reign. "You've got no history" was the taunt at the Kings Road crew. The response was "making history, not living in it".
We need to stop it. The nostalgia is for us supporters, not those running, managing, coaching and playing for the club. They should be looking forward.
108 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:35:34
My very first words to you in my two posts in this thread were to praise you on ‘a nicely crafted editorial, but adding it was not an article that resonates with me before explaining why not.
You have now responded to me with two retrospective revisions of one block of your article that I challenged. First claiming the use of a conditional ‘if (which simply isnt the case) to distance yourself from the conclusions you wrote. You do similar in your second claim saying that you were writing about the fans ‘perception of reality, not your own. Only, in your original text you dont qualify that phrase in the manner of the retrospective revision you now offer. To my eye it continues to read as you offering your personal opinion and perception rather than that of the broader Everton church that you now claim. All by-the-by as far as Im concerned.
I consider that in your latest post to me you are being more explicit in ‘owning your own words than you seemed prepared to be in the original article.
But again Lyndon, to my eye what it amounts to is the same speculation on the inner workings of the club based on personal perception rather than any concrete information.
On the one hand you are saying ‘things may not be as chaotic as they appear, but on the other you say ‘in the absence of anything concrete, [there is] ‘no smoke without fire. Talk about ‘lose-lose for the club.
What plausible statement that you and others wish to hear to appease your anxiety can the club offer to satisfy those two diametrically opposed positions?
‘There is no truth in the rumours that the board is at loggerheads and conflicted on who should be our next manager, or ‘We are fighting like feral cats in a sack because nobody is willing to back down on their preferred option.
In the absence of such declarations you and others speculate – without evidence – that there is serious discordance within the club. Im not aware of any similar declarations on their own manager searches at Spurs, Palace and WBA. But it wouldnt surprise me in the least if on their respective fans forums their supporters are expressing similar sentiments about their club, board and owner as Evertonians are based on the same mistaken ‘perceptions of reality absent of concrete evidence. Yet some Blues seemingly wish to propagate the belief that this is uniquely ‘Everton that. Id wager its not.
Personally, I have absolutely no problem with the media silence by the club at this time. I have no problem with the time being taken in selecting the next manager. I pay little or no heed to the ‘noise surrounding the new manager search.
When Carlo went I commented that whoever the new manager is it will inform us who holds the greatest sway in the decision making, stating my preference that whilst Moshiri is the ultimate power that signs it off, the search should primarily be driven by Brands. I have absolutely zero idea if this is or isnt the case.
Nothing I have read or heard on the pursuit of a new manager comes directly from source, the club. In the absence of any validated information, I wont pretend to ‘know what each ‘player in the game is thinking and saying as some are inclined to do. I repeat again:
The 'meedjah'. Online bookies. Fans.
Nobody. Knows. Nuffink.
109 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:45:32
110 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:48:35
Agreed, these are sensitive multi million pound decisions tacitly involving supporters whose biggest decision of the week involves medium or large fries serves no purpose.
As a side note I sometimes struggle with the choice of Mcflurry
111 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:51:47
Lurch for Rafa Benítez highlights chaos and dysfunction at top of Everton
Proceeding despite the backlash shows Farhad Moshiri wants to win at any cost, writes Paul Joyce, Northern Football Correspondent
The Times, Thursday 17 June 2021, 12:00pm,
On the eve of the finale to the Premier League season, Denise Barrett-Baxendale, the Everton chief executive, wrote a letter to the club's supporters.
She wrote glowingly about the “clear progress” under Carlo Ancelotti and how the Italian manager was the “perfect fit” given he had “embraced the club's values” and “connected” with supporters. How quickly things can become outdated.
Yet the correspondence was also a vehicle for Barrett-Baxendale to round on the European Super League (ESL) debacle. She had just been invited to join Tracey Crouch's advisory panel, which will provide expert advice to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport's fan-led review of football governance, and had a message for the club's fans. “Rest assured, the voice of Evertonians will be heard,” she added. “YOUR voice will be heard.”
Those sentences leap off the page, making for particularly interesting reading given the toxic outcry that has erupted among supporters after talks with Rafael Benítez, the former Liverpool manager, about filling the void left by Ancelotti, who has returned to Real Madrid.
Promising Everton fans they will shape how English football moves forward feels ambitious. Ensuring their voices are heard within their own club should, on the surface, be infinitely easier to sort out.
The undertone of the letter was a thinly veiled, understandable dig at Liverpool, co-conspirators in the ESL breakaway fiasco that collapsed within 48 hours of its launch in April.
Liverpool have failed to ask their fans on important issues and have been criticised for it but, by the same token, when the supporters have spoken out emphatically, the club's response has been quick.
We know what Fenway Sports Group, their owners, would be doing today in the face of mounting pressure over a managerial target. They would be beginning the retreat and drafting an apology as with the ESL, the furloughing of staff, ticket prices, trademarks. The list is long.
What the Everton owner, Farhad Moshiri, and his influential business associates will do is far less certain. The 66-year-old has form for changing his mind. David Moyes and Ralf Rangnick, for example, fully expected to be installed as manager before Ancelotti came in in December 2019. The present situation reflects the dysfunctional, chaotic club Everton have become.
When people lament this “is not Everton” then that is not strictly true. Yes, it is not how Everton were under the present chairman Bill Kenwright between 1999 and 2016, seasons which included ten top eight finishes, five European campaigns and offered stability, but then that was not enough.
Supporters perceived him to be holding back the club because he did not have deep enough pockets and, in one instance, they flew an aircraft over Goodison Park, trailing the banner: “Kenwright and Co — Time to go”.
So he sold to a billionaire and now Everton play by the billionaire rules of Moshiri and Alisher Usmanov, whose MegaFon company is behind many of the club's new sponsorship deals.
The key now is whether they listen to the fans or their friends at, say, Chelsea, who might have given Benítez a strong reference after he took over as interim manager in November 2012, guiding the club to a fourth-place finish and helping them to win the Europa League.
There was a backlash from Chelsea fans against the Spaniard then too, although the depth of feeling on the blue half of Merseyside is stronger given Benítez once described them as a “small club” after their tactics in a Merseyside derby in 2007.
Benítez has previously sought to explain himself, saying he made an error when joining Jamie Carragher on Sky's Monday Night Football in December 2019. “I made a mistake when I said it was a small club,” he said.
“What I wanted to say was they are a small team because in this game I remember they had one chance. Liverpool fans, they were happy and the Evertonians were upset. But I didn't want to say they were a small club, I wanted to say they were a small team.
“Some Evertonians, they come to me and say about what I did for the city, we have the charity [that raises funds for other charities in the city], and all these things, so I have a very good connection with the city, not just the Liverpool fans.”
Right now, there is only a damaging mess. “I have talked to some people in the Everton-Liverpool area,” Andy Gray, the former Everton striker, said on BeIN Sports. “People are saying if that happens they are not going back [to Goodison]. Think again, Farhad. Please. Very quickly.”
Either the supporters remain outraged by what they see as a divisive idea or a part of the Everton hierarchy is pushed into doing something it does not want to do. And what then?
It is hard not to have sympathy for Moshiri. Even though it would have crossed his mind to sack Ancelotti on the final day when Everton's bid for Europe ended in a 5-0 defeat at Manchester City, and the club slipped to 10th in the table, he was prepared to stand by the Italian.
More than that he was ready to back him in the transfer market again this summer rather than search for his replacement.
Where the sympathy ends is that the lack of choice to take over from “Carlo Fantastico” is in part due to the chopping and changing during his five years of ownership at the club.
One theory was that the rush to oppose Benítez would kill the deal and see Roberto Martínez, the Belgium manager, come back into contention. He has been discussed by the board about returning to Goodison Park.
Yet Martínez was run out of town in May 2016, with players and supporters losing faith in him, despite the fact that Everton reached two domestic cup semi-finals. Romelu Lukaku missed a penalty against Manchester United in a 2-1 FA Cup loss sealed by Anthony Martial's stoppage-time winner.
The sacking of Martínez has sparked an unprecedented period of instability. There have been seven managerial switches taking into account interim appointments — Martinez, Ronald Koeman, David Unsworth, Sam Allardyce, Marco Silva, Duncan Ferguson, Ancelotti — and about 20 members of the backroom staff coming and going as a consequence.
Moshiri has had two directors of football [Steve Walsh and Marcel Brands], two chief executives [Robert Elstone and Barrett-Baxendale], while two board members have left [Keith Harris and Jon Woods]. That totals 33 changes in senior positions.
On top of that is player trading — about 80 transfers in and out with almost half of the incoming deals since the summer of 2016 having already moved on. Now we are up to about 110 changes in senior personnel.
Bringing order to the chaos may appeal to Benítez and Nuno Espírito Santo, who are both out of work. Martinez may also perversely fancy that task if he decides he wants to return to club football after the Euros.
But it is little wonder that Moyes, even overlooking how he was strung along in the past, was not responsive to the overtures he received at the start of the month and instead signed the new contract on offer from West Ham United.
Graham Potter has been mooted by some supporters as the appointment they would like (plenty of others do not want him). But what exactly is it about Everton that would appeal to him? Potter is ambitious but known to value the environment in which he works at Brighton & Hove Albion. One that allows him to try to build but possibly lose five matches in a row without the owner Tony Bloom's trigger finger twitching or a chorus of disapproval raining down from the stands.
For all the rancour one aspect remains. Everton and Benítez, a good man, both deserve better.
112 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:01:44
t's clear he doesn't want Everton to appoint Benitez, he probably doesn't want his memories of Istanbul sullied. Lamenting how Moyes was treated, is he having a laugh? The same Moyes who publicly catastrophised on the fact he had been ushered into an audience with SAF wearing the wrong trousers. David, yes, how awful it must have been for you.
I hope we appoint Benitez, he's the best man for the job. I just want to see the team win. I couldn't care less about the Liverpool connection. We took Rooney back, we can get over this.
114 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:22:58
Tony Newcastle would be desperate to have him back (largely because he took on Ashley, Bruce is doing a similar job) I think that says it all as to the calibre of club that should want him. Ask Liverpool fans, Chelsea fans do they want him and if we have any top six aspirations then we also should be naysayers regardless of his connections and history.
Ps Tony don't be so delicate as that was a tongue in cheek post just saying that I often agree with Dave as opposed to you.
115 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:26:20
I don't think his track record recently is bad at all. I was aghast when he moved to Newcastle as I thought he'd do a good job there, which he did. Remember the way they came back against us to win from two-nil down? Fortunately Ashley didn't give him any money, so the damage he was able to do was limited.
And then he went to China for a £12M salary, fair enough.
116 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:26:22
117 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:31:11
Good? In the current vernacular - he's sweet
118 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:36:40
Duncan Ferguson now needs to leave Everton and to manage another team to prove that he has got what is needed.Just like Royle and Kendall did, unlike Harvey, and Unsworth who didn't and who both failed.
We can even employ someone in the short-term; however, we shouldn't get tied down by history. Benitez is the safer bet.
119 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:45:51
Benitez took over Newcastle and got them relegated despite getting plenty of time to turn them around. (10 games one point off safety and were only in a precarious position because they had the dreadful McLaren poorly managing a decent squad). He didn't exactly overachieve at Newcastle as was not much different to Pardew and Bruce with similar budgets. I have already shown his record at Inter,Napoli, Chelsea and in China.
If we are to be successful we need a manager who can overachieve, who can make the sum of the parts better. Benitez won't do this.
120 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:09:42
The fact Whelan closed the cheque book and sold Wigans best for a controlled descent from the Prem cuts no ice with the anti Martinez faction. Neither does twatting us and the fabled Moyes defence en route to winning the FA cup against moneybags City. Yet apparently the overrun Moyes defence of that qtr final was the reason for Martinez unmatched first season
They just hate him facts don't matter - weird as
121 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:37:43
The list on the table contains either huge risks or individuals who are anathema to sizeable numbers of the core support.
Given all this, why is there so little consideration of a candidate who would not come with a compensation claim for his acquisition, who presents no risk from the perspective of further decline, who already has PL experience, who achieved first year success in winning qualification to the CL, and whose record before being relieved of his duties last season included goals scored at over 2 per game.
Add in his stature within the English game, his age, and his ambition, then he looks an attractive option. As it is, if you believe what you read and hear, it looks like he's the only candidate not even interviewed!
122 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:47:15
123 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:53:32
Maybe Pep has a clause in his contract saying he can leave for free if the mighty blues come in for him
124 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:55:28
125 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:57:52
Youre perfectly entitled to disagree with the sentiments expressed. Im just writing from a position of frustration and disillusionment. If it turns out that was misplaced, Ill freely admit it but Im deeply skeptical at the moment.
126 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:24:54
127 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:38:09
I was not and am not trying to be contentious or provocative Lyndon. Nor do I presume to speak for others or attempting to impose my (possibly minority) view on others on the subjects you touched on.
I speak for myself, expressing my personal views only. Not fessed either way if fellow TWers view them negatively or positively.
128 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:50:34
129 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:58:26
Are you a lawyer, by trade? :D
130 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:58:55
131 Posted 19/06/2021 at 20:10:00
On the other hand, Jay Wood's unnecessarily long and repetitive comments reach pedantry at times and perhaps like me others wonder why someone would go to these lengths (here and elsewhere - many 'elsewheres') to try to come out on top.
Another classic example of 'Woody' thread-destroying one-upmanship. It's so boring.
132 Posted 20/06/2021 at 02:40:23
133 Posted 20/06/2021 at 06:17:46
He's been there
He knows what it takes to win
And we have been appointing all the politically correct managers thus far and it has given us jack squat
Yes, that included Carlo as well.
We need to appoint someone from outside the box someone that has seen us from our weakness
Please let it be the Old Spanish Waiter
135 Posted 20/06/2021 at 07:03:37
I don't like the "a source told me stuff" and I don't have a source, just my son who follows all kinds of what he believes are reliable media sources. Apparently a reputable Spanish journalist, and friend of Benitez, supports the claim that Usmanov and by default Moshiri could be behind the Benitez push. Allegedly our owner and his backer are willing to spend, but they want someone who they believe knows what he's doing with their money. In fairness, Ancelotti did spend well last season in my opinion, we just need to repeat that a couple more times before the squad is fixed from the scattergun approach that went before it.
That could explain why they're looking for something similar in terms of past success and a big name in the game. Lessons learned and fingers burned in the past? Or a journalist friend of Benitez plugging his mate for the job? Who knows.
As always, taken with a pinch of salt from me and I don't know where that leaves Brands if that theory is true. But then he's been elevated to a more prominent board position if I recall?? Could this be the end of Kenwright? All speculation and conspiracy theorist guess work.
If they want to go down that route, is Mancini staying with Italy after the World Cup?
136 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:09:41
Connor: I don't think Benitez will over-achieve either. I think he would get us back to our recent high of about 8th (achieved by Koeman and Silva). With a bit of luck we might sneak 7th or even 6th. This is what Ancelotti had us on track for with a decent summer.
Benitez is a very similar manager to Ancelotti but with a worse CV.
However, in fairness, if we want a manager to over-achieve then the stand out candidate would be Dyche. He's done exactly that for a good few years now. But he's not in the frame and there are probably good reasons for that.
Benitez has been a winner, but that doesn't mean he could suddenly transform Everton.
Expecting Benitez to turn up and start winning things is like going out on the pull wearing your rich, handsome friend's hand-me-downs and expecting to go home with a stunner.
137 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:15:10
I wouldn't want to go down the Dyche route and I don't think the owners will.
But then I'm not making the decisions and I've been pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised on many occasions when it comes to Everton!!
138 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:33:10
You're not as good as your Last win, you're only as good as your Next win.
ALL managerial appointments are a bit of a gamble, some may prove divisive to start, some may be come divisive. But Benitez will have divisiveness thrust upon him all of his term.
So why take on board any extra baggage.
139 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:42:46
It's actually uniting the fanbase, but not in a good way as it is dividing the fanbase from the ownership.
Turbulent times ahead if this indeed goes ahead.
140 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:43:14
Danny, fair enough about the sources and rumour bollocks mate, but I was told everything that Spanish journalist put on Twitter, and can only assume its come from the same person. The way its worded talks about a wind of change, but I dont want to speculate, even if Im praying that you know whos, nine lives, are nearly up🤞
141 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:53:42
Lots of similarities but Ancelotti is far more decorated than Benitez.
142 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:00:18
Im sure Ancelloti was asked do you want the job? And said yes, but hopefully now Everton have been very thorough, and have spoken to each candidate a few times, and maybe even more to the men, that they might wish to employ?
Id guess Benitez knew a lot more about Everton, than he maybe should have, especially because hes close to a few scousers, and it wouldnt surprise me if hes already told Usmanov and Moshiri, where they have been going wrong, but thats just pure speculation, even if Rafa does comes across as this type of man.
143 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:15:29
I meant Euros, not World Cup by the way! I guess everyone knew what I meant.
144 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:20:10
145 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:25:35
If its between Nuno and Rafa Id have to go with the latter. Nuno seems to me to be the nice, arms around the shoulder, company man. Rafa is more of a ruthless operator who wont accept the lack of effort or tactical awareness our shower show on a regular basis.
146 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:37:22
All reports/indications and rumours suggest the board is split and in house disagreement is rife.
It won't matter who is appointed, they will need the full backing of the whole club from tea lady to director.
Having had a lot of time to mull it over I'm convinced a happy medium will not be reached, Bill is known to be a dummy spitter and will want his own way, let's face it, no-one knows Everton like him (sarcasm intended) he sees himself as the custodian of the club and has the ego to match.
Whoever is appointed will be in for a rocky ride, I'm genuinely terrified that a relegation battle awaits, we now have a history of sacking managers and the new incumbent will need to hit the ground running.
Bottom half by Christmas and the knives will be out for whoever it is, I've a feeling the teary one will get his way and another journeyman loser is on his way.
147 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:40:17
Who has the say of who gets the position? You would be forgiven for assuming as both DoF, Marcel Brands, and Board Member, and also being the only one who has any real Football knowledge, that the decision should be down to him. Now we are hearing that Moshiri (okay he is major shareholder) but NOT an actual Board Member, and knows less than Manuel from Fawlty Towers about Football, is pulling the strings as to who the next incumbent should be.
This incredibly has been further fuelled by mentions of Usmanov (The Secret Billionaire) throwing his few roubles worth into the selection process, because allegedly he likes Benitez and thinks he would be a good fit for Everton. What the hell does Usmanov know about Everton apart from it seemed like an Investment Opportunity?
I, like everyone else, have been left so infuriated and let down on two accounts, the football served up last season, but hoping that would improve with a good Window and a further clear-out, and more importantly the man we all thought could get us there jumping ship and leaving us to flounder, on the edge of a maelstrom.
148 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:43:00
The Mancini shout does interest me If he's available after the Euros. Again, if listening to where we think the owners thought process is, then he could fit the bill for them as well.
149 Posted 20/06/2021 at 10:35:36
That said I suspect everything we have been reading is no more than rumour. There are only four board members so its way too easy for any leaks to be attributed. Any leak will have been deliberate to gauge reaction( if so thats been pretty successful hasnt it).
Whoever it is the appointment has to be made this week to give us a chance in the transfer window and I just hope the rumours of DCL to Real are just that as we need to keep the half dozen decent players we have.
150 Posted 20/06/2021 at 12:42:49
I wonder who he / they will be.
Digne could go as we have cover in Godfrey and Nkounkou. Why City have never come in for him baffles me.
Richarlson may come back from Brazil and demand to go.
James - if Carlo calls he will go - no fee I'm guessing.
Allan - may have had enough already and who would blame him.
Pickford - having a good Euros and looking assured. Played well for us in latter part of season. If a really good offer comes in I can see us saying yes.
DCL - if he gets a run in the England team and grabs a few goals, the offers may come in - would we sell ? we usually do !!
Bernard - minimum fee unless new manager decides to keep him.
Holgate - will he get a new start or let go. Will he be used as a full back so we can bring in some else in another position. Coleman to back him up.
Whatever happens I reckon we need a full Goodsion, backing the manager and players to get through next season.
151 Posted 20/06/2021 at 13:34:51
Are you referring to the report in the current bun which says Everton has recorded losses of £240m in the last two years, and says that Moshiri didn't stand in the way of Ancelotti leaving because he wants to cut the wage bill?
If that was true, why didn't they just appoint Ferguson as manager? He'd seem to be the cheapest option and I'm pretty certain the favourites for the job, Nuno or Benitez, would want a fairly hefty salary.
High finance isn't my speciality but, given that Usmanov is in the background (albeit unofficially), perhaps the current financial situation isn't as bad as it may seem. Obviously, it isn't what we'd all like, but Covid has played havoc with every club's financial situation.
Players may leave in the summer but, if they're our most effective players, they'd have to be replaced and that would possibly be more expensive than keeping them.
152 Posted 21/06/2021 at 10:18:08
153 Posted 22/06/2021 at 02:52:35
"Favre's teams play a dynamic, quick and attacking-minded football where ball possession and change of tempo alternate. This attractive style of play has brought results in every club he has managed. Furthermore, Favre is very skillful tactically, leaving his opponents struggling to penetrate his well-organized sides".
Benitez's Wikipedia page on the other hand, says he is a firm believer in zonal marking at set-pieces. Need I say more?
155 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:17:42
I hope, but I'm not hopeful as I don't think that's where Everton are looking, but please surprise me and prove me wrong.
156 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:18:34
157 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:22:55
158 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:38:08
Good call out though. I just made an assumption through his German football connections. Although if I'd have looked closely at his name and taken time to look into it, he's of French-Swiss origin.
159 Posted 22/06/2021 at 10:13:40
I say this, what is the point of having a Board, if strings are being pulled from well outside of that conclave? Especially if reports are to be believed (no smoke without fire) that Usmanov is dictating who the next manager should be!
What part, if any, does the footballing man (the only one on the Board, by the way) Brands play in all this? Or is he like the others, just figureheads with no real sway or say? Or are his football-related decisions going to be over-ruled each time because the oligarchs say so?
160 Posted 22/06/2021 at 11:58:04
Brush up on your geography young man.
If your old job ever comes calling I hope your not doing the OS 😁
161 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:06:29
Bill has finally convinced his clueless moneyman that Dame Edna and Big Dunc will keep things ticking over nicely until David Darling is free from his contract at WHU and back in the luvvie duvvie Goodison family.
162 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:46:18
I had good people arranging where I needed to be, when I needed to be there and getting me there!!!
Rangnick, Terzic, Ten Hag and now Colin planting the Favre seed. My thinking is probably polar opposite of the club's. Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if Colin's last post at 161 is not far off the mark!
163 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:52:24
164 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:55:31
165 Posted 22/06/2021 at 14:13:18
Your not a Rupert?
166 Posted 22/06/2021 at 14:32:38
167 Posted 22/06/2021 at 14:43:29
168 Posted 22/06/2021 at 15:20:02
169 Posted 22/06/2021 at 15:28:40
I too have likened this to the Allardyce appointment. But what you suggest goes back to the rumours we heard this week from different sources; they are prepared to spend, providing they get someone they feel they can trust with their money. Right now that seems to be Benitez but I'm clinging on to the emerging Favre link.
170 Posted 22/06/2021 at 17:59:50
Would it be beyond the pale to put together Say Duncan Ferguson and David Ancelotti. I have to admit thats the bare bones of my thought process but more of the more enlightened could come up with the new Brian Clough/ Peter Taylor success train
171 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:07:33
I have a feeling that Moshiri is deciding too much, and he does not have a clue about football.
We need to have a solid foundation to stand on. For example, what type of football we play. Do we aim to play offensive football, do we aim at running more than the opponents or what is the plan here?
I seriously have no clue on what we (Moshiri and co) is trying to achieve and I have no idea on what kind of football we are aiming to play.
Unfortunately I have lost my belief that Moshiri is the right man to bring Everton forward. The plan, whatever the plan he has, is just not good enough. I do not understand what plan we have at all.
Ok if I am wrong with that our plan is not good enough. I seriously do not get it. Can anyone please enlighten me on what we are trying to achieve?
Rafael Benitez? Seriously, what is he going to do for us??
172 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:13:06
173 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:17:44
About the coach. Why not try to bring in Christophe Galtier? The guy that took Lille to the top in France this year, playing offensive football. That sounds like music to me. How is it even possible? He must be a genius.
174 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:18:57
Seriously people, can we gain a bit of perspective.. There is plenty of time to appoint a manager. We have a director of football model and Brands is trying to sign the players we have already targeted. Better coaching candidates will be available after the Euros. The manager isnt needed until we get the players back. Why wouldnt Moshiri et al keep their powder dry until later?
175 Posted 23/06/2021 at 00:28:54
176 Posted 23/06/2021 at 08:21:59
177 Posted 23/06/2021 at 13:07:11
Technically he has but obviously doesn't remember as he was 5 months old. He also watched the semi final, which in our house is more remembered by my wife for my apparent bad parent behaviour. I was watching on TV in Cyprus and rocking him in one of those chair things you put babies in with my foot. When we scored the 4th I instinctively jumped up and my action flipped him into the air. Fortunately he landed on the couch, not the tiled floor.
I feel for his and my youngest brothers generation. Fortunately he's inherited my blind faith, belief and high expectations. Fortunately right?
178 Posted 23/06/2021 at 13:20:11
Apologies, thats an important correction at my age!
179 Posted 23/06/2021 at 13:43:00
Its in the blood, it always was, because the minute they can travel, I know they will be at it again, and these fans are the real reason that Everton, has never been allowed to become a small club.
I think of Benitez, and wonder what he will feel if he brings Evertonians a trophy? He will already know that we are not a small club, and maybe he already admires our pragmatism, because whilst Liverpudlians sing walk on, its the Evertonians who sing WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED, however painful it sometimes is.🙏
180 Posted 23/06/2021 at 14:27:50
Its no good just saying I don't want him and I don't want him because blah blah.
We've gone through a lot of managers that have proved elsewhere that they are decent managers, so who the hell is left?
Itsn't it obvious by now that if the players are not up to top 4 standard we are not going to finish up there whoever the manager is.
I wouldn't like to be in Moshiri's shoes he must be in spin, because unless he spends absolute fortunes more on real top players we are stuck in good but not good enough mode I fear.
181 Posted 24/06/2021 at 11:28:49
Who is in charge? Moshiri? Brands? The manager... or that Russian oligarch? It is just too much of a mess. Moshiri (or Usmanov?) seems to be calling the shots on what to do and that does not work. That is the real problem.
182 Posted 24/06/2021 at 12:02:20
We had a good chance of getting Favre years ago but we dithered... he said so himself. Just about to be named Palace manager, just settling up a work permit
183 Posted 24/06/2021 at 12:33:08
Our army of travelling blues deserve so much better than what they have been served up. Ironically our best away form since we won the league and fans couldn't attend!.
That away support feel good factor would have spread to the players and management and who knows if Carlo would have walked?
As loyal as what those away fans are the appointment of Benitez won't go down well.
184 Posted 24/06/2021 at 18:44:55
185 Posted 26/06/2021 at 14:53:06
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