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Michael Kenrick
1 Posted 21/11/2020 at 16:46:16
Barkley down and out for Villa after just 3 mins.

Hamstring injury. This from Tim Cahill: "That's just a freak accident. It could be the warm up – Ross Barkley's muscles could still be cold."

I know nothing but I don't buy that, sorry, Tim. Players go down with hamstring injuries at any stage of the game, muscles cold or warm. Seems more to do with over-stretching but you'd think in this day and age they would have some idea of cause and effect, and implement measures to break the chain!

Fran Mitchell
2 Posted 21/11/2020 at 16:55:36
Shame for Barkley. It is another injury for much overworked players. It also shows how much the squads will be needed, no team will survive with just 11 players cause of this.

On the football. How did we lose to Newcastle, they are awful.

If this penalty is given, that is a crime. The Villa player should be booked for obvious simulation.

Player who impresses me is Yves Bissouma, he'd be a good option for us in midfield.

Neil Lawson
3 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:04:05
Who has just seen the penalty at Villa overturned by VAR? How many times did Keown say it was a deffo penalty? The man is either blind, an idiot, or totally biased. These so-called expert pundits get paid a fortune to be total plonkers much of the time.

On the very first rerun, it was clear the defender got a touch of the ball and made no, or tiny, contact with the attacker. Every further showing just made it clearer and clearer. The attacker, like so many, was cheating. Keown couldn't see or admit he was wrong. Credit for once to the ref.

Brent Stephens
4 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:17:26
Neil, I saw it too. Couldn't believe Keown was saying it was a pen and it would have been given outside of the box.
Rob Halligan
5 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:26:59
Sully March got a touch but made contact with the Villa player with the follow through. Hard to call if it's a penalty or not, but we all know where it would definitely have been given!!
Jeff Armstrong
6 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:32:06
I thought it was a penalty, follow through from March got the ankle of the attacker, would have been given as a foul elsewhere, Keown is a total weapon though, worst “expert” currently being employed by the media.

Opinions though eh!

Rob Halligan
7 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:32:37
How many times do we see a player win a ball, but follow through and catch his opponent, resulting in a foul? The theatrical dive didn't help either, so will the Villa player get a retrospective ban? By the way, we all know where the penalty would definitely have been given!!
Rob Halligan
8 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:35:42
Spurs 1-0 after 5 minutes. Son again.
Jeff Armstrong
9 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:37:22
Loads of times, Rob, so do you think it was a penalty or not? And yes, RS (Salah & Mane) would get it every time!

So... should Villa have got it?

Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:37:39
First time I've been happy with VAR, because I enjoyed watching this decent game, and thought the Villa player was definitely looking for the penalty.

The standard of officiating in the Premier League is very poor though, and if people sing Michael Oliver's praises, it can surely only be because he's the best of a bad bunch and nothing more?

Fran Mitchell
11 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:37:59
Everyone says how they hate simulation. Now Trezeguet clearly simulated he flipped himself like he'd been cleaned out. But then no-one talks about it, because there may have been minimal contact. It's a joke.

The same as how the slightest touch of the ball on the arm, or offside given against the position of a players shoulder, penalties given cause 'there was contact' is a joke. And it encourages players to throw themselves on the floor repeatedly looking for penalties. It should be a yellow, every single time; only then will players suddenly stay on their feet.

Rob Halligan
12 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:44:53
What's the rule, Jeff? Pickford on Van Dijk was not a penalty because he was offside, so going by the same ruling, this can't have been a penalty because March played the ball first, then the player second. Yet as I say, numerous times a foul is given outside the box for a "follow through".

Do I think it was a penalty? Probably not, but at real time, I thought it was a cast-iron penalty.

Fran Mitchell
13 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:45:28
Spurs are phenomenal going forward.
Brian Williams
14 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:47:55
What a move for that second (disallowed) goal. Can't believe it's the same team we beat on the opening day of the season.
Tony Abrahams
15 Posted 21/11/2020 at 17:52:02
Why Brian? They also opened us up once or twice that day, but don't underestimate a full strength Everton team, mate!
Brian Williams
16 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:02:15
True, Tony, mate, but they still look like a different team, certainly up for this one. Great game, by the way.
Jeff Armstrong
17 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:06:34
So, after 8 or 9 games, inflammatory question:

Allan or Højbjerg?

Simon Dalzell
18 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:17:49
He 'won the ball'. I never even noticed he touched it. I do know he just deliberately tripped him up. If March got a touch it was an accident. Never seen a clearer penalty.
Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:24:46
You sound like Klopp, Simon, if you're not being sarcastic mate.

Jeff @74, maybe Ancellotti wanted the two of them, and he wouldn't have signed Doucouré?

Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:28:30
Brian (10), yes great game, enjoying it.

Surprised again by Kane's use of the ball, very good. I've got to say, though, he plays for the fouls a bit too often for me and gets most of them. He's in the top league of divers, but that's today's game.

Neil Lawson
21 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:28:55

Same optician as Keown?

Neil Lawson
22 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:31:06
And Simon, if you haven't seen clearer penalty, how about the one in the 1966 FA Cup Final that Alex Young didn't get?
Jeff Armstrong
23 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:32:28
Maybe, Tony.

But back to the question: for me, Højbjerg.

Bill Gall
24 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:36:59
It may seem to look a good game but, once the goal went in, Spurs have everyone back as soon as City get to the halfway line. Typical defensive set up by the Special One.
Justin Doone
25 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:37:10
Allan wins.

Referee did well to reverse his error. All I want to see is referees using the help given, in this case, the VAR monitor. Should have used it for several other dubious free-kicks and especially the Lamptey 2nd yellow. All in good time.

I'm feeling confident about tomorrow. Plenty of drama, Mitrovic to end his goal drout but class rules in an excellent and exciting 4-2 Everton win.

Tony Abrahams
26 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:37:48
It's very frustrating, Dave, the way everything is a foul in the modern game, but VAR has intervened once again. Although it's not something I like, it's at least refreshing that the ref, has made the final call, even if it's not a decision that everyone will agree with.

I think this is the type of game Mourinho loves. Although City are not fully clicking yet, they've still got the players to punish any team in the blink of an eye.

Brian Williams
27 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:42:20
Tony, surprised nobodies accused the ref of an anti City bias considering the ownership of season tickets in the refs household. 🤣🤣🤣
Rob Halligan
28 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:46:53

You will never see a more clearer penalty not given than the rugby challenge by Carragher on Lescott, or how about Alan Hansen using his hand to keep Adrian Heath's goal-bound effort out in the Milk Cup Final in 1984?

Jeff Armstrong
29 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:58:03
Rob, Handy Hansen won that cup for the RS, imagine if VAR was around then we'd have a League Cup to our name and they'd have one less.
Fran Mitchell
30 Posted 21/11/2020 at 18:59:13
Mourinho is at his absolute best... he's proving everyone wrong,.. and he is thriving on it. Everyone, including myself, thought he was destined to crash and burn.

Spurs could really be title challengers.

Kane and Son are amongst the best in the league. They still have Bale to unleash when match fit. And squad depth (Lo Celso is a sub – what we could do for that).

Rob Halligan
31 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:02:40
Exactly, Jeff. Even down the other end of the stadium, everyone could see it was a penalty. As clear as daylight.
Brian Williams
32 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:06:52
Agree with all of that, Fran.
Fran Mitchell
33 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:11:48
Talking of Spurs' squad depth. Considering Dele Alli seems now out of contention, I wonder if he would be an option (loan to buy) in January?

He would offer an attacking alternative from midfield. Maybe a change of club is needed for him to get his form back.

Jeff Armstrong
34 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:15:27
If VAR was to go back, the whole history of football would change. 1966 World Cup Final would go to pens (it was never over the line). Bryan Hamilton's goal stands, etc etc.

That's why it should not be used. Today, Oliver's decision to change his mind is totally against the morals of the game: he sees it once, he gives it, end of. He's the ref, mistakes or not.

Goalies make mistakes, players make mistakes, and so do refs. That has happened on a pitch up and down the country forever, and that is why we're all enthralled.

Technology will kill the game for us old foggies and football will become sanitised and robotic for future generations.

Tony Hill
35 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:23:58
Yes, that was a lovely piece of work by Mourinho. City are looking clueless.

Discipline and effort. Danny Blanchflower and I would like more, but those things always give you a big chance and then the beauty and the glory follow.

Tony Hill
36 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:25:45
ps: I see why we wanted Højbjerg.
Patrick McFarlane
37 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:28:41
Manchester City are concentrating (like PSG) on winning the Champions League, it's where the money is and, with the possibility of a new European Super League on the horizon, winning that trophy would help to legitimise their place in that new league.

Manchester City have also lost some very important leaders in the last few years and have some very ordinary defenders in their squad.

Tony Abrahams
38 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:30:21
Everything starts from discipline, Tony.

I was thinking the same myself about Mike Dean, Brian, because – although I agreed that Jesus handled the ball, I thought my own MotM, Harry Kane, had the ref in his pocket at times today!

Harold Obbertan
39 Posted 21/11/2020 at 19:41:27
No surprise City choking again.

For all their money, they really are gutless when someone decent takes them on.

Fran Mitchell
40 Posted 21/11/2020 at 20:01:12
Højbjerg is playing excellently and makes a mockery of the comments on him when we were first linked in the Summer.

Imagine if we had both him and Allan in midfield instead of Sigurdsson or Gomes.

Anthony Murphy
41 Posted 21/11/2020 at 20:28:31
City out of the race already and, judging by the De Bruyne interview after the match, they already know it.
Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 21/11/2020 at 20:35:06
City out of the race after playing 8 matches? Mad shout that Anthony!
Jeff Armstrong
43 Posted 21/11/2020 at 20:53:23
Fran, I posed a tongue in cheek question earlier, a few games in who would you prefer, Højbjerg or Allan,

For me, it's Højbjerg, disciplined, neat and tidy, good range of passing, at the moment Allan is a chicken with no head

Dave Abrahams
44 Posted 21/11/2020 at 21:01:16
Fran (23), exactly Fran, Spurs are playing with a full complement of central midfielders we are playing with one short every game, if Hojberg played with just Allan alongside him he wouldn't look as good as he was today, same as Doucoure playing with Allan they are a man light in that position as long as Gomes or Sigurdsson line up with them, and there isn't much left to choose from, maybe Dgamin will make up the trio.
Jay Harris
45 Posted 21/11/2020 at 21:05:22

Totally different set up. Spurs flood the midfield so he has plenty of support. We play through the flanks leaving Allan exposed.

Fran Mitchell
46 Posted 21/11/2020 at 21:10:28
Indeed Sam. I don't think Hjoberg was targeted as an alternative to Allan. Ancelotti wanted Allan from the get-go, it is quite clear. But he wanted the two of them. They are different.

People are all of a sudden calling Allan a headless chicken – much the same was said about Gana Gueye who as soon as he left, it became clear he was our most important player.

Allan is indeed a 'chaser'. He will chase the ball and close it down. That is his game, and he's excellent at it. It gives our midfield more dynamism and energy which had been desperately lacking.

This does, however, mean that there will be gaps, there will be spaces where Allan 'should be'. This is where a Højbjerg would come in. He's more disciplined in his positioning. He'd complement well with Allan and Doucouré doing the miles next to him.

Unfortunately, we have a passed it Sigurdsson, a 50% Gomes, unreliable Davies or Delph. For me, i'd stick with Delph for now and hope Gbamin can come in at some point. Sigurdsson is useless, Gomes is too slow and gives away too many fouls, Davies has poor positioning and woeful distribution.

Rob Halligan
47 Posted 21/11/2020 at 21:16:14
West Brom penalty. Overturned by the referee after consulting the pitch-side screen. Looks exactly the same as the Villa one earlier. Looks like contact was made with the West Brom player by Fernandes before he played the ball though.

Moments later, penalty for Man Utd, saved by the West Brom goalie only to be retaken as he moved off his line. Retake smashed in by Fernandes.

Anthony Murphy
49 Posted 21/11/2020 at 22:11:05
Tony, Mad? No mate. Not got a chance. You must be watching different football to me if you think they have
Tony Abrahams
50 Posted 22/11/2020 at 09:34:13
I must be Anthony, because as I've said on this thread already, City haven't quite clicked yet so far this season.

To write them off this early, definitely seems a bit mad to me mate, because they are one of the few teams I've watched, that are not playing anywhere near their level, but they have still been the better team in possession whenever I've watched them.

It still wouldn't surprise me if City finish at the top of the pile, although I tipped Chelsea at the start, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Spurs, go closer than they've ever gone since they last won the league either.

Back to our neighbours, because Klopp is now crying about the Richarlison tackle on Thiago today, but it genuinely wouldn't surprise me if the Liverpool player, has got a totally different injury, that actually had nothing to do with the bad foul he received 4 weeks ago?

Dale Self
51 Posted 22/11/2020 at 16:44:38
Alright now we can get back to watching other games again, cmon Leeds!
Rob Halligan
52 Posted 22/11/2020 at 19:44:25
Great headed goal by Jonny Evans. Pity it was into his own net.
Fran Mitchell
53 Posted 22/11/2020 at 19:51:20
Considering the praise some on here give Leicester and Rodgers, if we played like this against Liverpool, we'd call it an embarrassment.
Fran Mitchell
54 Posted 22/11/2020 at 19:53:52
And what about Arteta. the New Pep my arse. More like the New Allardyce.
Tony Hill
55 Posted 22/11/2020 at 19:58:51
The shite are superb on their meds, alas.
Fran Mitchell
56 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:00:40
Really hope Spurs can keep going, they're the only team capable of challenging Liverpool I think.
Jim Bennings
57 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:01:03
Liverpool will win the league simply because the rest are just not up to mounting a serious challenge.

Spurs always bottle it, Leicester can't really sustain it, United and Chelsea are great one week and atrocious the next while it smacks to me that Guardiola wants that Champions League this season more than a league title which he's already twice won here.

Fran Mitchell
58 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:06:13
Hard to say "Spurs always bottle it". I can't remember them ever seriously mounting a title challenge. But in Mourinho, they have a serial winner, and he looks like he's in the mood.

Son and Kane are devastating. Bale still to come in. And quality midfield. They're our best hope I fear.

Tony Hill
59 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:08:28
I agree Fran.
Fran Mitchell
60 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:10:10
But there is something seriously impressive about Liverpool. Miller at right back, their defensive midfielder at centre back. A teenager in midfield. Arguably their entire first choice midfield out. Their star striker and top scorer out.

And they still perform to that level.

Boy I wish Klopp had been appointed Everton manager

Ken Kneale
61 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:23:16
Fran - do you not feel that is a mental thing - Paul T referred to something similar on the match thread today. Our squad for years seems weak mentally and that translates to weak physically when it seems to matter - surely they are not less physically conditioned than other teams to start a game but they sure look beaten at times against the opposition when up against a mentally fit team
Tony Hill
62 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:26:28
Fran, Ken it's extraordinary. Let's hope for a Leicester comeback.
Jim Bennings
63 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:27:41

Spurs bottled it in 2016 when they had the chance to overtake Leicester a few times but couldn't, and when it comes to Cup Semi finals or finals they seem to mimick us in many ways.

I sincerely hope they can mount a challenge this season but Liverpool just seem to have this impregnable record at Anfield where teams are beaten before the set foot on the pitch.

Fran Mitchell
64 Posted 22/11/2020 at 20:32:48
It must be the porridge at Melwood.

I mean, Diego Jota.

Who on here would have advocated us to sign him for 40 million? Absolutely no one.

Klopp saw something no-one saw, and boom, the guy looks like bargain of the year.

The teenagers they play - I just looked at their bench, and they are pretty much youth players. And yet I'm sure Klopp has every confidence in them.

They lose players to injuries, and another steps in and they just carry on like normal.

I hate them. but it's impossible not to be impressed.

Yes, compare it to Everton - no Richarlison and all of a sudden the entire team drops. James gets tired and all of a sudden we can't creat chances.

Klopp must be an intense person, he must keep them at 100% all the time and it is showing.

Barry Rathbone
65 Posted 22/11/2020 at 21:11:25
Some bright spark suggested I should "behave" for saying no-one will get near Liverpool despite them patently having the best squad in the Premier League to accompany their notorious mental toughness. Wonder what he's thinking now?
Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 22/11/2020 at 21:19:55
He's probably thinking thanks for telling us Barry, you bright spark!
Patrick McFarlane
67 Posted 22/11/2020 at 21:27:16
I couldn't stand Herr Klopp as manager of Everton, he lies, he cheats, he moans more than many others, give me Carlo over him every time. Why can't Everton mount a challenge considering nobody else seems interested.

As it happens I think Spurs will go close and Chelsea could click, but the key thing is consistency and unfortunately, that is the Dark Side's speciality even when they've been crap in the past they always manage to eke out results. Everton has always been the polar opposite, managing to screw up when least expected even when playing well. It's only at the quarter stage in the competition and there's lots to play for.

Patrick McFarlane
68 Posted 22/11/2020 at 21:36:04
Instanbul, one of the darkest days for Evertonians and still we have to relive it 15 years later. That West Ham Cup Final was a cracker and oh don't forget [fill in your own favourite reds victory]! People do realise that the two clubs are completely different entities and that Everton is the club we support? Also there are thousands of outlets dedicated to our neighbours which have no shortage of memories and stories that can be commented upon.

Stan Schofield
69 Posted 22/11/2020 at 21:43:50
Some of the fawning over Liverpool on this thread is cringeworthy. No wonder they get a psychological advantage, some people hand it to them on a plate. Get a grip, guys!
Brian Williams
70 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:05:06
Rob Halligan
71 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:07:40
Well said Stan.
Kevin Molloy
72 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:07:42
interesting point Klopp made at the end there, apparently they are short at centre half. That could be tricky.
Stan Schofield
73 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:23:58
Kevin, short at centre half? That's a shame, when did that happen?
Bobby Mallon
74 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:35:17
Ian, we drew the derby 2-2 and tonight Leicester just got spanked 3.0 by the shite who had Milner playing right back then midfield. Leicester play such an open attacking game.
Kevin Molloy
75 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:48:44
He didn't say, Stan. Maybe he was just speaking generally, and wasn't thinking of one specific incident. That's probably it.
Danny O’Neill
76 Posted 22/11/2020 at 22:52:39
Leicester unusually showed too much respect tonight. That's why they got beat 3 - 0 and were lucky it was only 3 - 0. They sat back.

We got a point against the same team (the best in the league ... feel sick / casual vomit), because we had a go back and got the rub of the decisions for once.

To my point. We will concede, so right now, don't berate / worry about defence, just go forth and score!!

Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 23/11/2020 at 08:18:29
Leicester were like Arsenal, and Chelsea, when they played Liverpool, all to cautious imo, but as some bright spark once said...FUCK LIVERPOOL!

Sorry for going on but one thing we could learn off our neighbours, is that you can't win well every week. Take the points, and move on, although I think that point needs making on the thread with Michael's match report yesterday.

Stan Schofield
78 Posted 23/11/2020 at 10:24:08
Tony @77: Well said. It seems to me that many people focus too much on Liverpool, and that such focus generates an element of fear and paralysis. It's one thing to sensibly analyse an opponents strengths and weaknesses, as Ancelotti would do to plan the defeat of that opponent, but quite another to be fearful of them and thereby give them a psychological advantage.

This over-focus is surely the root cause of Everton's failure (not lack of ability, but failure) to beat Liverpool for such a long time. We too often just go to pieces, and I think that many of our supporters do too. It has got to stop.

Tony Abrahams
79 Posted 23/11/2020 at 10:53:15
In a nutshell, Stan. I used to love it when they couldn't beat Joe Royle's Everton, both on and off the pitch. Joe used to come out with little clever snide remarks, dressed up with humour, and you could see their bitterness coming out of every paw, once they'd lost that smugness.

I've said it before but the last time we beat Liverpool, I had to hold my tongue with loads of happy Evertonians, because I honestly didn't know what all the fuss was about.

Maybe I was wrong but I was fuming, because that Liverpool team were absolute pony imo, and Everton never went for the jugular, and were very happy just to stroll to a 2-0 victory.

Firstly we've got to improve, but then we've got to become calculating, (Barry R?) because I'm not interested in hollow victories, although I can't wait to see the Big German's face when we do finally beat them.

Neil Cremin
80 Posted 23/11/2020 at 21:35:29
I see our other star winger scored tonight.
Christy Ring
81 Posted 23/11/2020 at 21:37:39
Wallcott has a new lease of life, scores again tonight?

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