Farewell to these Departing Players?

Phil Roberts 25/05/2021 68comments  |  Jump to last

To bring some joy and a chance of a bit of vitriol along the lines of “mercenary”, “not fit to wear the shirt”, “waste of money”, “Brands needs shooting for buying this guy”... this article will allow us to vent what steam and anger we still have left and get rid of the disappointment of the last couple of months. The following players are out of contract at the end of next month and, with no news coming from Goodison Park, it would appear they will be released. All the statistics are based on Premier League and not on cup games.

Muhamed Besic
Last Appearance away at Chelsea on 27 August 2017, when he came on at half-time for Tom Davies. That was his one and only time on the pitch since Bournemouth at home on 30 April 2016. One sub appearance in the last 5 years. Blue touchpaper standing tall on this one!

He made 23 starts and 13 sub appearances since his debut at home to Chelsea in August 2014. Something about doing a backheel when he was the last man and we lost 6-3?

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Josh King
He may be offered a contract but, having been signed in January as cover, he made 10 sub appearances, never started a game, clocked enough minutes for 1½ full games and, to use a cricketing parlance, never troubled the scorers.

Theo Walcott
Already gone, but included here just so some of us can have one final spout off at Sam Allardyce.

Yannick Bolasie
Last appearance was a late substitution in the 3-1 defeat by West Ham on the last day of the 2017-18 season, 13 May 2018. A total of 23 starts and 6 from the bench. His Everton career started when he came on away at West Brom on 20 August 2016 to replace Gerard Deulofeu. Having been on the pitch for the time it takes to play 21 games over his Everton career, he managed to score 2 goals. Mind you, I think a few of you would break the bank for us to buy a 4-goal-a-season pacey winger.

Matthew Pennington
While Brian Labone will always be known as the last of the Corinthians, the hope is that Matthew is the last of the “He may come good and we can get a fee, give him a new contract” youth policy. He made his debut in that same match as Besic made his penultimate appearance. Having made his debut at 21½, he started 4 games, going off injured in the last game of the season.

He came back late the next season at the Anfield derby and did what every Evertonian always dreams of doing – scoring against Liverpool. Sadly it was not a decisive intervention. His last game was 8 days later on 9 April 2017. So farewell Matthew but you are nearly 27. You were a better player than more than 99,999% of us on here but sadly not quite to the level needed for the Premier League. Enjoy your football.

And then there are ten in the U-23 squad that are at the end of their contracts and decisions will have to be made or have already been made. Dennis Adenrian (now 22 and ex-Fulham) and Callum Connolly (23) have already been released. Nathan Broadhead has just turned 23 and came on as an 88th minute sub at Brighton a month ago for his debut while Josh Bowler (now 22 and ex-QPR) and Con Ouzounidis (almost 22) are yet to make an appearance in the Premier League. Perhaps decisions on these are easier.

The other five are a lot younger and may well be offered short-term contracts: Kyle John and Joe Anderson have just turned 20 while Ryan Astley and Nicolas Hansen are still 19 and Liam Higgins is just 18.

And now you have all calmed down, let’s raise the temperatures and blood pressures again. We will have to wait another 12 months before the contracts for Fabian Delph, Gylfi Sigurdsson, Cenk Tosun and Bernard expire. To ensure a full level of anger:

Fabian Delph started 2 matches this season, playing all 90 minutes in one game and never more than 32 minutes in his 6 sub appearances. A grand total of 261 minutes on the pitch.

In the 3 seasons since Allardyce left, Cenk Tosun has started 12 games and made 22 substitute appearances. Adding up all the minutes he spent on the pitch, it comes to just over 15 games and 4 goals. In goals per game, this is 10 goals a season. Richarlison got 7 this year so maybe we should keep him? No, I thought not.

Bernard made 3 starts this season and 9 sub appearances, well down on last seasons 15 and 12. He did score a goal this season in the 449 minutes he was on the pitch. 449 minutes – that is 5 full games.

I make no comment about Gylfi Sigurdsson. being almost 32 years old at the start of next season. He did start 24 games and it perhaps says it all that, with Decouré, Allan, James, if all 3 are fit they are on the team sheet before him. It is difficult to see his role. Perhaps a jack of all trades and a master of none, or at least none where we need someone.

I have left off Jonjoe Kenny from this part of the list and Seamus Coleman. Both are out of contract next Summer but I think the feelings of ToffeeWeb readers toward these guys are totally different.

Enjoy, guys and I hope you are feeling better after you have made your comments and that cathartic moment when you press the “Enter” key.

We have a long summer ahead. Fixtures are released 3 weeks this Wednesday and the first game is 10 weeks on Saturday. Busy summer, Mr Brands and Signor Ancelotti.

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Reader Comments (68)

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Mike Gaynes
1 Posted 25/05/2021 at 06:32:36
Phil, everybody who wanted to vent about these guys has already vented. Not sure I see the relevance of this anymore. Hell, even I ran out of Besic insults two years ago.

And Gylfi doesn't belong on this list. Whatever his shortcomings, he had 6 goals and 5 assists this season, more than all the other remaining players on this list combined -- for their entire Everton careers.

Jim Bennings
2 Posted 25/05/2021 at 07:22:04
Bernard isn't 32 at the start of next season?

For what it's worth, yes he's not physically strong enough for the league that's been sussed out since the start of the 2019/20 season after much promise in his first.

But would he have done any worse than the absolute footballing crab that is Andre Gomes or the "he's had a good game today" Tom Davies?

Two players that have not scored a single goal all season from midfield.

Our other wide option Alex Iwobi who's been a regular all season but played like a shithouse throughout it.

Colin Glassar
4 Posted 25/05/2021 at 07:28:19
Agree with Jim, Davies, Gomes and Iwobi (thrice Iwobi) can all go ASAP! I'd now put holgate in their as well. What a disappointment he's been.
Ian Bennett
5 Posted 25/05/2021 at 07:57:09
Tosun is already looking to run his contract down and head out on a free. It is just a matter of whether we might get a nominal fee in the Christmas window.

We paid £8m for Delph, I suspect any fee would just go back into subsidise his wages at a less gullible club.

Holgate and Bernard will command some fees, as will Kean. A weaker Premier league team like a Palace would take Iwobi for half what we paid I guess.

I think you might get what £60-70m. But an already threadbare squad susceptible to injury, is going to be even more threadbare. That's 6 out plus the out of contract deadwood.

I don't know what you do with Gomes or Gbamin. One is a shadow of himself and the other is broken.

And then Sigurdsson. He ain't good enough, but will we have the ability to bring in the numbers needed to freshen this squad? We need at least 5 starter players, and probably another 3-4 hungry squad players capable of pushing the first choice over 12-24 months.

Mick O'Malley
6 Posted 25/05/2021 at 07:59:08
Gylfi definitely belongs on the list; a waste of 㿙 million – I can't wait to get rid of him. Not one free-kick scored in 4 years... and that penalty was pathetic against Man City, one half-decent game every 4 or 5 games is not good enough.

A total and utter waste of time and money, that's my opinion of him.

Mal van Schaick
7 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:10:56
Aside from the above-named leavers, Holgate, Davies, Bernard, Gomes and Iwobi and Delph. Farewell to these players would suit me.

Godfrey was the stand-out buy, and my player of the season. He was fully committed wherever he was asked to play. Keane is trying to adopt the manager's tactics of playing out from the back, Digne has been our best source of crosses from the wing, Mina had a few setbacks with injuries, but is worth retaining.

Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin need quality competition for their places.

Doucouré and Allan, do give us some bite and energy in midfield, but need more quality around them.

Jim Bennings
8 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:13:30
Ian

I think Gomes is gone mate!

To be honest I'm surprised we even signed him for 㿀 million because apart from 5 or 6 good games when he first arrived in the team, back in October - December 2018, he was anonymous mostly.

Games pass him by; for a physically big fella, he doesn't dominate matches, doesn't go up for headers, can't tackle, can't shoot and he's got no turn of foot.

Gomes needs a move to the Portuguese or Spanish league where he'd have all the time he needs on the ball there.

Gbamin I put alongside Delph, doesn't even feel like an Everton player because I've never seen him play properly and frankly I don't think we will.

Joe McMahon
9 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:27:09
To be honest I wouldn't care if they all buggered off, apart from Godfrey and Pickford (he seems to have turned the corner). Seamus in his day was tops, and I've no doubt he will be joining the Everton Family behind the scenes for another newly created job.

I'd like the chop to begin though at Finch Farm, and a coaching team brought in that can coach to pass, move and teach Calvert-Lewin to be able to shoot.

Kevin Prytherch
10 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:41:46
Gylfi definitely does belong on that list. His job is to get goals and assists so comparing those stats to players whose job it is to protect the back 4 is fruitless. The only way I'd keep him is on massively reduced wages and he should never be allowed near a midfield again.

If Davies in midfield is “he's had a good game today” then God knows what Sigurdsson is. He is the most anonymous player I've ever seen in an Everton midfield, and I witnessed Claus Thomsen!!!!

Robert Tressell
11 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:46:57
In his specialist position, Gylfi remains very productive. 11 goal contributions from 24 starts is impressive in a side with no width at all (condensing the available space) and when often played out of position as a central or even defensive midfielder. His impact is also lessened when played alongside low energy Gomes and Rodriguez (and to some extent Davies).

With Allan and Doucoure behind him and Richarlison and, say, Bailey wide of him, there's a good chance of him performing even better.

Indeed, it will be very difficult to find a better player for this role with our limited budget. Although, for us, he's a disappointment at £45m, really he is what you generally get for the relatively modest sum of £45m. And yes, £45m is not that big a sum of money to at least 4 clubs in the Premier League. Look at £70m Pepe at Arsenal, for example.

If you want a player with the same goal contribution who also dominates games you typically have to spend much more.

Brian Murray
12 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:47:18
We really need another magnificent seven transfers à la Howard Kendall. Though with more success. I think some ex-binman goalie from Bury turned out half decent out of all them!!

With at least the same amount somehow going out the door. Harder to do these days, especially with the idiotic contracts we give them.

If the groundwork on these new players is not already done, then Brands needs to just do one as he's not fit for purpose.

Bill Fairfield
13 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:50:41
I just hope and pray that we are not discussing a lot of the above-named players next season.
Tony Everan
14 Posted 25/05/2021 at 09:29:37
As Mike says it's all been well and truly vented, but when there's a low ebb, there's a bit of wriggle room for a bit more venting.

So for a bit of fun this picture came into my mind of Besic, Bolasie, Delph, Bernard, Tosun, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Walcott and Iwobi. They are all out of work and in the job centre and looking for an outlet. Then it comes to them in a blinding flash: The Full Monty - Deadwood to Hollywood.

Andrew Ellams
15 Posted 25/05/2021 at 09:55:52
Sigurdsson will stay for one more year but we'll see less of him, Bernard will get his move and we'll sell at least one from Holgate, Keane and Mina.

I wouldn't be surprised if James and Richarlison looked to move on this summer too.

Clive Rogers
16 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:01:05
One or both of our strikers need to go as they are just not a viable combination and never will be a success playing together, no understanding between them.
Brian Harrison
18 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:23:47
I posted the other day that, if Brands and Ancelotti think we only need 2 or 3 players, they are deluded. I read Michael Ball in the Echo, who suggested we need 7 or 8 new players and I think that's nearer the mark.

There is no doubt that somebody at Finch Farm has had a calming effect on Jordan Pickford and he looks a better goalkeeper for it.

I think Mina and Keane is our best centre-back pairing; Godfrey has done well and can play in either full-back position, but at the moment he lacks positional sense to play in a centre-back role.

In midfield, I would keep Allan and Davies to come on from the bench in games; I know it's not possible but I would sell the rest of the midfield. Doucouré needs to improve a lot defensively, he is all over the place and not much better going forward with the ball at his feet. His one main attribute is he has a good engine but you need more than that.

Up front, Calvert-Lewin is good in the 6-yard box but his all-round game needs to improve a lot, to be a complete striker like Kane. I think there are a few young strikers in the Premier League who have more in their locker than him.

Richarlison has been poor this season; he does have ability but needs to show it on a regular basis – not just when he feels like it. King will go as will Bernard, but who would offer Iwobi a contract? And nobody would pay him the money we are. He's another who will be here till his contract runs out; great signing, Marcel.

A fellow Blue sent me a text saying this is the team that played against Liverpool before Silva was sacked:

Pickford, Sidibé, Holgate, Keane, Mina, Digne, Iwobi, Davies, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin.

This is very similar to the side that finished against Man City so the same people who failed the previous 2 managers look like doing the same to Ancelotti, unless drastic action is taken in the summer. I live in hope.

Mike Doyle
19 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:27:52
Can't believe we are allowing Besic (our second longest serving player after Seamus I understand) to leave after just 7 years of service - and 3 years shy of a testimonial.
Couldn't EiTC get involved and fund an additional 3 year contract?
Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:30:43
Robert (11),

As you say, I don't think Sigurdsson is as bad as he is painted. I also don't think he is good as you are making him out to be... and, of course, I take his transfer fee into that consideration. This was what Everton agreed to pay for him, but when you add in the wages over five years, 㿏M? It really is an unbelievable and terrible transfer all round and should make every fan aware of what was going on in the background by the Everton board at the time.

And to think most of them are still here and having a say in the running of this asylum, sorry... football club.

Michael Kenrick
21 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:44:05
Hi Phil,

Horrifying analysis, reminding us of the perennial deadwood problem. Where are you getting your stats from? I ask because some seem to be a little off. These are what I believe to be the correct numbers:

Besic – 22 (15)
Tosun – 12 (23) [excluding 2017-18: 12 (2) and 5 goals]

I'd like to cross-check and see if it's mine that are wrong. Thanks!

Jon Harding
22 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:54:12
Excellent original post Phil and a good summary that is effectively stating that no one will be leaving this summer who has been anywhere near the first team in recent times.

Do we need to add Olsen to the list when his loan expires? I do not think we need him back as Virginia looked a perfectly decent reserve keeper to me.

Unfortunately the thread has been mostly taken over by the “shift the deadwood” posters who live in a parallel universe to me. It is not realistic to expect Brands to be able to sell Iwobi, Gomes and Gbamin whose contracts with us run till 2024 – that's 3 more seasons. Holgate is contracted till 2025! There may be other clubs out there who would be happy to take these players on and maybe even pay us a transfer fee but the wages we pay are highly unlikely to be matched anywhere else. Do we expect these guys to move on but accept lower earnings? Would we do that in our own lives? These boys are set for life by staying with us: £100K a week is over £5M a year which is £15M through to the end of the 2023/24 season. Who in their right mind would walk away from a deal like that? The biggest winner must be HM Revenue and Customs! I hope they're on PAYE contracts not dubious payments to off-shore shell companies in a tax haven somewhere.

So we're stuck with them, I fear, like it or not, and this severely impacts our ability to bring in new signings, unless Moshiri wants to go absolutely bananas at a time he must be focussing his resources on building a new stadium.

Finally, I read a lot of comments about our need for a new right back. To mis-quote that well-known Evertonian Jay Z: we got 99 problems and a right back ain't one. Seamus can still do a job and will be at Everton for life, I suspect. Kenny also has a year left on his contract and acquitted himself well at Celtic I understand. Have any of us truly seen enough of him to say “definitely no”. Why don't we give him a good go next season then we'll know for sure; otherwise, we're all just guessing at his potential. We also have plenty of centre halves who can cover across at right back as has happened often this season. Where we do need to splash out is ahead of the right back, maybe with money in from a Kean sale.

Wholesale changes are not going to happen this summer, however much people are desperate for it. So please stop going on about it!

Robert Tressell
23 Posted 25/05/2021 at 11:34:31
Jon, I felt Kenny deserved a shot at sharing the RB spot with Coleman this season. Whatever we think, Ancelotti obviously disagreed. Kenny surely won't be in the picture next season - and we really do need a RB. Coleman has a great game every 6 weeks. Between times, Holgate & Coleman share thr burden of looking dreadful.

Agree with hugely unrealistic expectations about selling deadwood. There is no market for our high-earning, low-performing crap.

Also enjoyed your hip-hop references.

Shane Corcoran
24 Posted 25/05/2021 at 11:35:57
I find it very strange that people want rid of Davies. I think his improvement this season has been one of few bonuses. Why Carlo won't play him ahead of Gomes has been the real mystery.

If we buy seven or eight players, then we'll have a worse season than this one as we won't be buying top quality because we can't afford it and we're not in Europe.

So seven or eight more average players? No thanks. As torturous as it's been, we need patience, improve what we've got, get rid of the obvious dross, and buy carefully.

Lester Yip
25 Posted 25/05/2021 at 12:13:05
I would like to get a few players off Norwich, such as Aarons, Cantwell and Buendía. But, now they're back in the Premier League, I can't see that happen.

It looks like Richarlison will play alongside Calvert-Lewin, he won't be played as a winger. So we really need someone who can beat a man and cross accurately.

Derek Moore
26 Posted 25/05/2021 at 13:55:07
It'll be four years in August since we signed Gylfi, and with all due respect to Robert Tressell, 㿙M four years ago wasn't a modest amount of money.

Gylfi's own Wikipedia entry – and a simple google search – reveals the consensus value at the time for his services was in the range of 㿅M. The end fee Everton paid and that valuation are absurdly disparate. Rather like peg leg Whelan did at Wigan, Swansea held their nerve and utterly soaked us.

To end up paying as far over the odds as we did is still baffling to me – who were we bidding against? Why didn't we walk away? There were many many Evertonians at the time pointing out the foolishness of overpaying for a player such as Gylfi – tidy on his day but no world beater. Just another disastrous transfer in a recent history of disastrous transfers.

The opportunity cost alone makes Gylfi an absolute turd of a signing in my book, his modest playing contribution notwithstanding. Vlasic arrived two weeks after Gylfi, believe it or not, a young player we ended up taking a profit on. Even if we'd just paid the 㿅M for Gylfi, the 㿀M difference would have funded two other Vlasic-category players, wages included. Vlasic is today conservatively valued at twice what our Icelandic *ahem* "talisman" is, by the way.

That's what I mean by opportunity cost. Up there with Schneiderlin for me in wasting precious resources.

Kevin Prytherch
27 Posted 25/05/2021 at 14:06:17
I agree that we are not going to get 7-8 players in. We don't need 7-8 players to improve and that many players will take time to gel. So we need to target specific areas.

If Ancelotti has no faith in the present reserve full-backs then we need some form of cover.

We have no real wide players other than Richarlison - who doesn't get played there. Potentially we have Gordon, but Ancelotti hasn't rated him this season.

We have no-one in midfield who can put their foot on the ball and dictate play.

Unless Tosun or Kean return, we need a back-up striker – unless Simms's Blackpool performances have persuaded otherwise.

I also think it would be foolish to sell Davies. If you ever get the chance to listen to the interview with Davies and Calvert-Lewin, do it. Davies is the type of character that is good for the club.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnBwmANTS8

Michael Boardman
28 Posted 25/05/2021 at 14:42:24
Derek, for opportunity costs to be realised, you'd need to understand the actual alternatives to this fictional 㿀M.

Using Vlasic as an example is hindsight – at the time, we paid the market rate for him, and made a profit on sale, not as an asset for resale above the balance sheet value.

So, who, at the time, discarding hindsight, do you suggest we should have "invested" in? Probably an impossible question to be fair. It falls back to my view that we sign players to make a profit on sale... Moneyball by any chance??

Derek Moore
29 Posted 25/05/2021 at 15:09:29
Michael Boardman (#28).

My point on Vlasic is we paid the going rate for a player who had a reasonable potential to rise in value. He did rise in value; we cashed in because we didn't value his services on the pitch. Advantage Everton!

It's impossible and unfair to ask whom I thought we ought to have bought at this stage, I agree with you.

The overarching concept that, when you have fewer resources than your immediate competitors, you have to be extremely prudent on how your own resources are deployed, is what ought to be remembered. At no stage did it make any sense to overpay for Sigurdsson on the scale that we did. It's hurt us.

"It falls back to my view that we sign players to make a profit on sale... Moneyball by any chance??"

I absolutely categorically agree. Liverpool and their ilk are in a position to amortize dross like Andy Carroll and it does not worry them; we most assuredly are not in that position. Paying overs for above-average at best talent must disappear from our MO or this midtable existence will forever continue.

Dale Self
30 Posted 25/05/2021 at 16:50:53
Fair points Derek but can we please stop blaming the player for the fees negotiated by suits be they empty or not. I think what is missing in the Siggy discussion is the likelihood that his services are best suited for players that make intelligent runs into spaces. The weight of Everton's creativity is largely on his shoulders and that is a system thing as much as it is him individually.
James Flynn
31 Posted 25/05/2021 at 17:07:19
It's on Brands now. We'll see how good he is or isn't over the next two seasons.

The players are out there who are good and don't cost a fortune.

Leeds brought talent up from the Championship.

Leicester has been re-building, while back in Europe (Again).

WHU went from finishing 5 points off the drop last season to 3 points off a CL position this. 6th and in Europe next season.

As disappointing as this season was, we finished 8 points off a CL slot.

Talent's out there. Brands needs to start finding and signing some of it.

Ian Bennett
32 Posted 25/05/2021 at 17:20:46
Jim (8) - agreed mate. But I can't see a Spanish or Portuguese team taking Gomes's wages.

Gbamin needs to go out on loan, and hopefully play regularly at a lower level. Scottish league or Championship would do.

Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
33 Posted 25/05/2021 at 17:25:09
Jim: "Bernard isn't 32 at the start of next season?"

Sorry, that was a formatting error on my part. That line belonged in the next paragraph. I've edited Phil's copy slightly so that the lead-in on Sigurdsson makes sense.

Bernard is 28.

Ian Hollingworth
34 Posted 25/05/2021 at 18:02:33
Mick @6, spot-on.

Glyfi Sigurdsson is a fraud and for me represents everything that is wrong at our great club. I accept he is far from the worst player but that makes it worse for me as he has some talent.

Watch him closely in any game: he is a cheat as in he cheats his teammates. He huffs and puffs but mainly avoids having to make a challenge and his first thought is to pass backwards as in a safety pass that probably makes his stats look good.

If we want to improve, we cannot continue to carry frauds like him.

Dead ball specialist? My arse.

Dale Self
35 Posted 25/05/2021 at 18:11:38
Fraud- defn: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Yours is a fraudulent post. It has already been stated by several of his teammates that he is the hardest worker of the group. Making him out to be grifting his mates is the most tone-deaf thing I've seen here in a while. Giving your namesake a good run there.

David Pearl
36 Posted 25/05/2021 at 18:41:53
Some shite written on here. Sigurdsson runs his heart out, even when played out of position on the left of midfield, and is apparently the hardest trainer at the club. He scores and makes assists. If people want to point an accusing finger, then how about someone that deserves it, like lwobi?

Trouble is, we don't have enough goals in the team. We don't have balance. We don't have style. Our manager would prefer to play a style that doesn't suit the players and plays them out of position to prove his point to our owner that his hands are tied.

He even played Bernard on the right when we all know his best position is on the left... in fact, he also improves Digne when he plays there. Get Digne involved and we are better. But hey, let's play Sigurdsson on the left and Doucouré on the right... and make a point to embarrass himself, the fans and the players.

Derek Taylor
37 Posted 25/05/2021 at 18:47:18
I suspect that the financing of BMD will prevent our owners continuing to throw money at team building as in the recent past. Thus, the employment of a 'top' manager was made in the belief that he would be able 'to make silk purses out of sows' ears' and prevent serious worries about relegation arising during the stadium building process.

If I am right about this, we must be prepared to accept a few seasons of mediocrity (as in 20-21) in the hope that it will all come out right in the latter part of this decade. As ever, patience is the watchword for Evertonians for the foreseeable future.

Michael Boardman
38 Posted 25/05/2021 at 18:47:21
Totally agree Derek. The RS manage to offload their U23's for an alarming level of transfer fees, while we argue whether our players, who in theory, have won more EPL2 titles than them, are worth anything.

Bournemouth and Sheff U are now paying the price for this.

I do see the point on Siggi, we have taken a bath on him to a certain extent, as resale value is nil, but at the time we possibly saw him as the link to the Champions League

Bill Gienapp
39 Posted 25/05/2021 at 20:14:11
Derek (26) - Leicester had a 㿔-million bid rejected by Swansea. Whether we should have walked away is another matter, but we weren't bidding against ourselves.
Soren Moyer
40 Posted 25/05/2021 at 20:30:34
+1 to add Holgate, Davies, Gomes and Iwobi to that list. And replacing Richarlisson if he is saleable that is!

Bill@ 39,

So they went for James Madison as their 2nd option!? I don't recall Leicester were in for Gylfi but I could be wrong!

Bill Rodgers
41 Posted 25/05/2021 at 20:38:50
We have some good players who don't want to be here. Some good players who prefer the treatment room. Plenty of young players who were told they were God's gift and believed it.

I can honestly only name 5 players worth keeping.

Bill Gienapp
42 Posted 25/05/2021 at 21:05:03
Soren (40) - I'm not positive, but I think they signed Maddison the following year. Here's a link I found, just to confirm Leicester's interest --

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/leicester-city-transfer-rumours-40-183121

Some interesting stats cited, such as Siggy rating best in the league at free kicks, and trailing only De Bruyne and Eriksen in assists.

James Flynn
43 Posted 25/05/2021 at 21:36:59
Re: Gylfy

Correct: Mike (1); Robert (11); Dale (35); David (36); Bill (39)

Graham Mockford
44 Posted 25/05/2021 at 21:51:01
To include Sigurdsson in the list is ridiculous. 19/20 he really struggled but this season when played in his right position he's been a lot better. In fact one of our better players this year. Certainly more effective than Gomes and Davies.

Of course we overpaid for him but that's not his fault. He will be part of the squad next year and then he will possibly be offered another year extension.


James Flynn
45 Posted 25/05/2021 at 22:03:49
Ian (34) - My God.

Thoughts for simpletons.

Frank McGregor
46 Posted 26/05/2021 at 17:16:15
I honestly believe we have to build a team that, first and foremost, should be a team that is competitive in the Premier League and attractive to watch. The current performances are totally negative and murder to watch.

The back pass should be totally banned from Everton Football Club – particularly in the 18-yard area.

Stop talking about "Top 6" and getting into Europe – it is pointless. Play your best in each game and success will follow; attack is best form of defense.

Martin Mason
47 Posted 26/05/2021 at 17:36:58
To be fair to Gomes, he has looked good at times and suffered a dreadful assault and injury which effectively ended his useful career.
Mike Gaynes
48 Posted 26/05/2021 at 17:59:07
Martin #47, yes, Andre has looked good at times. His hair and beard are the best on the club, and his socks are always precisely pulled up evenly.

Other than that, he has always been a hopelessly nonproductive player, both before and after the injury.

In 75 Prem games, he has scored one meaningless goal for us. One. And his lovely passing has produced exactly three assists.

And on the defensive side, he has been directly to blame for at least four goals I can recall, either through foolish free kicks given up or poor defensive effort.

Having watched him play dozens of times for Barca, I was less than thrilled when we brought him in. In retrospect, he's been worse than I thought.

A very nice man, a very graceful player, and of course ridiculously handsome. And I wish him a swift and lucrative departure to another club as quickly as possible.

Graham Mockford
49 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:11:07
Martin

Take the rose tinted glasses off. He's had a handful of decent games but on the whole he has been below the standard required. Yes he had a nasty injury but he's much the same player after as he was before. He lacks the pace and mobility to compete in the PL.

He is also symptomatic of the lack of grit and mental toughness too many of our current squad exhibit. His time at Barcelona should have given us a clue. He arrived after two good seasons in a very good Valencia side. The Barca supporters quickly got on his case and to say he stunk the place out is probably generous.

Nice hair though

Thomas Richards
50 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:27:52
If the target over the next two years is top 4 it becomes easier to say who you consider capable of achieving that tartget.

Godfrey
Digne
Doucoure
Allan
James
DCL

Richarlison possibly but he would need to improve.

Imo, nobody else in the squad is good enough to play CL football.

Tony Everan
51 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:36:30
Gomes has a grace about him, his body language is silky and languid. Also he has very good strength and strong buttocks which often uses cleverly to shield the ball from nimble predators.

Unfortunately, the boy is slow and does not naturally possess the required agility . He is a three tonne Bentley trying to outwit Subaru turbos on a rally course.

It's a shame this wasn't spotted before Barcelona reeled us in.

Best midfielder in the EPL image and hair-wise though. He could start his own male cosmetics company.

Gomesh Pro+, For Men. Slow release formula.

Bill Hawker
52 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:37:22
Year after year, waste after waste. It's time for Everton to start buying sensibly and prudently rather than "splashing the cash." Can't start soon enough.
Neil Copeland
53 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:39:16
Thomas #50, your list looks about right to me. Pickford is the only other one who I think could make it in the CL, depends whether or not he continues the progress made in the second half of this season.
Thomas Richards
54 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:43:02
I hesitated over Pickford Neil purely on his capability to make a mistake
On his best form he could play CL.
Vast improvement in him second half of season
Neil Copeland
55 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:47:59
Agreed Thomas, I think he benefited from the competition and weirdly (but to his credit) all the fuss over St Virgil. If Romero is still available, I would like to see him come in as number 2 and let young Virginia continue to develop.
Graham Mockford
56 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:55:57
Thomas 50

Pickford definitely and I'd also include Mina.

And I wouldn't include James. The skill undoubtedly, the mental strength and resilience not so much.

Graham Mockford
57 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:04:35
Bill 52

We've obviously made some terrible buys but tbf this years arrivals were of a much better quality. Gordon, Doucoure, Allan, James and Nkounkou.

Going to take another season to recycle this squad to the extent required

Paul Birmingham
58 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:16:19
Good call Thomas, that's the level of squad rebuilding and it will take a few years in my view.

The goal shortage must be addressed by the team and must be a shared collective responsibility, but thus makes this seasons transfer window interesting.

I'm hoping for the best Everton can get and hopefully proper players who want to play for Everton and whom will have some bark, panache and fight.

Here's to hoping.


Annika Herbert
59 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:19:35
So Gylfi runs his heart out? Just what you want from an alleged creative midfield force! It's just a shame while he is doing all this running around he creates so little.
Kieran Kinsella
60 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:19:55
Martin

Honestly Gomes reminds me a bit of watching Zico when he was 40 odd playing in the J league minus the goals. Yeah, he can pass the ball nicely over 25 yards, but you have to have more to your game than that especially if you're too slow to keep up with play and get within 45 yards of the other team's goal. He is a clumsy tackler, can't shoot, is too slow to dribble without getting caught in possession, and as I say even his passing is limited to a range of about 25 yards along the ground. Not so much as an occasional thirty yarder in the air with a bit of back spin on it.

Kieran Kinsella
61 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:21:35
Annika

In fairness he does run a lot, the problem is that he runs in the shadows from behind one defender to another so he never has to take responsibility for the ball.

Graham Mockford
62 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:32:08
Annika

I realise it's a hobby horse of yours, but the facts just don't bear you out.

10 assists in all competitions, more than any other player.

He has his limitations but he was much improved this season over last, due mainly to being played in a position that suits him.

I don't think he's a regular starter if we are serious but he can do a job for us next year.

Kunal Desai
63 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:39:30
Can't see the likes of Delph, Iwobi, Gomes moving on. Why would they? There on a cushty wedge, they've got no interest in playing football.

Bernard and those out of contract will leave. We need five first teamers. My worry is that despite Carlo at the helm, those players that would take us to another level will still favour going to CL clubs or those that will most certainly improve greatly next season i.e. Spurs and Arsenal. We need to be looking to sign a couple of emerging stars from the championship. Young, hungry and energetic and know how to play in a physical league.

We've lost all semblance of doing the basics in recent years.

Derek Moore
64 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:39:53
The Gomes signing is another total mystery and probably worthy of a post mortem. To be fair, he has been generally awful since his injury. But, to be equally fair, he was only marginally less awful prior to it anyway.

Whomever at Everton thought his game would satisfactorily translate to the Premier League needs professional guidance. Standing in the middle of the park pinging passes to runners and otherwise doing fuck all to mess up his immaculate and superior mane was going to help us how?
I thought Silva got Gomes on loan with the idea of playing him alongside Idrissa Gueye? A typical ball winner / distributor symbiotic type relationship? The results when they played together that season weren't compelling in any way. Why we permanently bought him I'll never really know, especially as Gueye was long targeted by PSG.

Kieran Kinsella
65 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:44:45
Derek

Good point, he didn't exactly have a Warzycha type loan spell. I felt it was all a bit "stars in our eyes" oooh Barcelona players

Bill Gienapp
66 Posted 27/05/2021 at 04:08:05
Eh, the Gomes signing has become a convenient stick to beat Brands with, but I think if you go back and read ToffeeWeb from that period of the transfer window, the vast majority (not everyone, but the majority) were in favor of bringing him back on a permanent basis.
Alan J Thompson
67 Posted 27/05/2021 at 06:55:41
Just to sum up then; Pickford and Godfrey in defence seems acceptable to all and Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison up front as we have nobody else and about 27 to be sold, let go or allowed to run down their contracts. And providing one of them doesn't want to move to where he won't get burgled (although it did sound more like terrorized) there will still be two keepers on the bench. I just get the feeling this isn't a good start.

The problem I have with some players is that their positioning seems to have been changed from either their usual/natural positions which I assume is at the Manager's insistence. Iwobi seems to be played wide right and I'm not sure if that is meant to be as a winger or wing-back but it is not how I seem to remember him playing at Arsenal albeit I didn't see that much of him at Arsenal.
Davies also seems to be playing as the last line defensive midfield and gap cover whereas he was described as a box to box midfield when he first came into the side. Then we have full-backs who must get forward regardless of anyone in front of them or covering and Richarlison playing more centrally than when he first arrived.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I really don't see anymore than five at the very most leaving the first-team squad (I don't include juniors with little or no 1st team games) and I'd be surprised if more than three, four at the very most, joining unless we include younger players that will be future first-team players.

I suppose it is why it is called the "off" season but, with Euros and the World Cup in difficult and changed times, it could be a strange and difficult few years.

Derek Moore
68 Posted 27/05/2021 at 15:02:30
Yeah fair enough Bill, on both the other party in the Soggy transaction and about popular opinion on Gomes being what it was.
That there were two mugs willing to shoot themselves in the foot for the dubious prize of Gylfi Sigurdsson is of some consolation I suppose. Like Soren, I didn't recall the Foxes interest but I of course accept your information and it helps explain why the fee ended up being so astronomical. We really should have walked though.
As for Gomes, I'm still confused. The season prior to his loan we had a distribution problem in the middle of the park following the decline of that shitbag Schneiderlin. Gueye would win the ball, Morgan would either pass it sideways backwards or to the opposition. My "understanding" was that Silva got Gomes on loan to send the ball forward when Gueye would win it, and provide some competition to our own Les Miserable in Schneiderlin.
I thought Gomes and Gueye played okay together, but as I said the results weren't terribly compelling. Gueye then left for Paris in the same window Gomes arrived permanently. I don't think Gomes has really had a good game for us since, not terribly surprising as he relies so much on others winning the ball for him.

No less a manager than Alex Ferguson failed trying to play in a similar way a team would have to with Gomes. Fergie once bought Seba Veron to play midfield general, spraying passes left or right, knowing when to push it or put the foot on it and try and play through them.
It didn't work, even though Fergie defended Veron ferociously - one memorable tirade had the Scot terming journalists "fucking idiots" for questioning Verons value - and afforded him every opportunity. The pragmatic Fergie called time on the Veron experiment after two average seasons, selling him for half what United paid to Abramovich.
Don't get me wrong, Veron was a much much better player than Gomes, and may indeed at 46 be faster than him in a foot race even now. But a central midfielder who can't adequately tackle and win his own ball is a luxury in England, a luxury United ultimately couldn't even afford when partnering Veron with Roy Keane. Too many teams in the bottom half of the Premier League play kick and rush football and it makes a Gomes type of midfielder pretty much extraneous, compounded by his weakness at heading a ball or at set pieces.
Whether that's a stick to beat Brands with or not I'll let others make the call on. Mistakes are made by every regime and Gomes signing was fairly early on in Brands tenure. I'm hoping the Dutchman has realized the physical demands of this league by now, but if I see another Gomes or Bernard type signing I'm reserving the right to get pissy about it.

Bill Gienapp
69 Posted 27/05/2021 at 19:04:45
To be fair, Derek, I was in favour of signing Gomes permanently at the time, but looking back, I'm not really sure why?

He's ponderous, has the defensive presence of a traffic cone, and no offensive game to speak of. He *is* capable of some silky passing, of the sort our midfield desperately needs, but doesn't do it with any sort of consistency.

Honestly, it might simply have been a case of the season ending promisingly under Silva, and continuity seeming crucial.

Ashley Roberts
71 Posted 28/05/2021 at 01:45:33
It appears, starting from goalkeeper through to strikers, the following players' times are up.

It seems as though we are interested in several keepers, including Romero, and I think that must mean that Olsen is on his way. I don't think he is a strong enough understudy for Pickford anyway.

Kenny will also be on his way and, while Holgate has not had a good end to the season, I think there is a reasonable player in there. We do need a decent younger right-back but I am not sure Aarons is the answer.

Midfield is the problem area. Other than Allan, Doucouré and Davies (I don't know if it is worth keeping Gbamin), the rest can go as Delph, Gomes, Iwobi and Sigurdsson are just too slow and well past their sell-by dates.

I always thought Bernard could have been useful but just doesn't score enough goals for me. I like the left-sided Rabiot from Juve but not sure if he is on the radar.

Then up front, get shot of Kean because he doesn't want to play for us, then bring in Diaby and another striker to put pressure on Calvert-Lewin... or maybe Coutinho as James will only ever be a part-time player.

So we would lose 10, counting Besic, Walcott and Bolasie, and maybe bring in 5. Hopefully the wage bill would then go down and we might have a team that could compete for the Top 4.


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