Moshiri’s Everton Less a Museum Than a Hall of Mirrors

Things may be under control behind the scenes with Marcel Brands assessing a list of managerial candidates but the impression from the outside is of a club wracked by indecision and internal conflict. Either way, in the vacuum of communication, frustration is mounting, with the Rafael Benitez speculation adding fuel to the fire of discontent

Lyndon Lloyd 18/06/2021 181comments  |  Jump to last

Amid swirling speculation, erratic reports and planted narratives within a vacuum of communication from the people in charge, perception has become reality and, in the wake of Carlo Ancelotti’s sudden departure, Everton resembles something of a circus at the moment. Things may be under control behind the scenes, with Marcel Brands diligently fulfilling his brief as Director of Football and calmly assessing a list of managerial candidates to fill the Italian’s shoes, but the impression from the outside is of a club wracked by indecision and internal conflict.

Without any concrete information, none of us mere mortal supporters knows what the real story is and it would appear that the media aren’t much the wiser. Is Brands ( the man whose job description suggests he should) leading the search or are the likes of Farhad Moshiri, the club’s majority shareholder, and Chairman Bill Kenwright having too much influence?

Moshiri, Brands or Denise Barrett-Baxendale could change that perception pretty swiftly if they wanted to, of course. It wouldn’t take much more than a video statement from the Director of Football to spell out very quickly how the decision over the next Everton manager is being conducted and who is driving it. Instead, we get drip-fed updates to Jim White and, it would appear, the likes of Nuno Espirito Santo’s camp feeding some of the more reliable journalists their own lines to muddy the waters.

There’s no getting away from the fact that Ancelotti’s timing was horrendous and the list of elite managers that the club could currently attract is vanishingly small. Tottenham’s own battle to find a permanent replacement for Jose Mourinho demonstrates how even a club with greater pulling power than Everton can struggle despite being in the world’s most popular league. The best coaches are all currently employed; those that are available come with their pros and cons.

But with Rafael Benitez, the man who appears to be on the verge of becoming the next Everton head coach, Moshiri is treading on dangerous ground that, for the first time, threatens to significantly undermine his standing with Blues fans. The billionaire has shown enough ambition and ploughed enough money into the club to have amassed a sizeable amount of trust capital with supporters, so much so that Evertonians held their noses at the deeply distasteful appointment of Sam Allardyce as boss in November 2017 and tolerated him for months in the belief that the Dudleyite would be summarily canned at the end of that season. And he was.

Moshiri can only get away with that kind of tone-deafness once, however, and the appearance of some very forthright banners at Goodison Park in the last 24 hours suggests that the arrival of Benitez, the former Liverpool manager, would be divisive on a scale that the British-Iranian businessman hasn’t yet experienced.

Put aside his Anfield history and you have a man with some impressive achievements — two Liga titles in 2002 and 2004, the Europa League and, of course, the Champions League with that lot across the Park, some of them achieved very much like Ancelotti, at massive clubs with the playing personnel to match.

But Benitez hasn’t won a major trophy for seven years. His last two jobs were at middling Newcastle and Chinese club Dalian Professional, where he had a win percentage of less than 32%. He smacks of a competent but unspectacular hire, one who would guarantee a modicum of safety but lacks the personality and talent to take Everton to the level of Top 4 challengers.

It’s impossible, however, for a lot of Evertonians to set aside Benitez’s Liverpool past, the success he enjoyed there, and his infamous “small club” jibe at the Blue half of Merseyside. The fact that he has retained a residence on the Wirral and been involved with important charitable work in the city won’t sufficiently alleviate the agony that Blues fans will have to undergo at every derby match while he is in the Everton dugout, as reds fans bait them with cheers and chants of “Agent Rafa”.

Ancelotti’s betrayal has left a painful mark on the collective Evertonian soul. For a moment, Blues fans dared to dream with a member of European football royalty at the helm, a man with a trophy cabinet bursting with the game’s top honours, who was also able to attract a different calibre of player to the club.

The Toffees have been dumped back into the basket of mediocrity in the eyes of the rest of the football world in fairly short order and, after months of turgid football and some truly awful home results under the Italian, the whole episode has left Everton as a club desperately seeking an identity.

Combine that with the frustrations of the pandemic and there is a palpable yearning for something to rekindle the spirit of the Blues — a young manager capable of building a cohesive side with a plan, a system, an ethos and, again, an identity. Benitez ticks none of those boxes and he comes with the additional baggage of those Liverpool ties.

Five years and £500m into his reign as, first, major shareholder and, now, full-fledged owner, Moshiri is still no closer to that identity – or ridding Goodison of the image of being the museum to the Blues' past that he, himself, was adamant it wouldn't become under his stewardship. He has put a Continental structure in place with a Director of Football designed to manage all aspects of the football side of the operation but, if the perception is anything like reality, like a Hall of Mirrors, all he seems to see is himself while the club can't find it's way out to some sort of plan forward. All the while, Evertonians desperate for any kind of demonstrable progress soldier on with nothing but the hope they’ve had since 1995. They deserve a lot better.

Moshiri may feel his legacy would be practically bulletproof if he were to deliver the Bramley-Moore Dock project but there is an awful lot of water to pass under the bridge before the new stadium hosts its first match and an awful lot of damage can be done to his relationship with the fanbase in the interim. With so much money thrown at players and managers with no tangible progress to show for it thus far, he has now spent a good deal of that currency with the fans. Announcing a middling ex-red as the successor to Ancelotti in the face of visible opposition from supporters might bleed that particular reservoir dry if Benitez turned out to be another failure.

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Jordan Wood
1 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:46:40
For the love of God, let Brands take control of making this appointment! Like you say, Lyndon, he may well be, but too many disappointments and incompetents leave me unable to believe that...

Benitez = another squad overhaul now, for him, and another one in 12 - 24 months when another manager, completely different again is recruited by Moshiri. How can we ever build something special like this? Why even hire Brands in the first place if your ego won't allow him to make these decisions?

If Bill and Moshiri are not letting Brands go all out to bring Ten Hag in... what is the point :-(

Roy Johnstone
2 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:47:17
Spot on Lyndon. If Moshiri wants to take this gamble with the loyalty of the fan base, he's either very brave or very stupid. Putting my bitterness to one side, Benitez is as you say, a middling manager with no quantifiable achievements in the last ten years. That is the key, not the small club stuff and him being an ex-red. A past it coach looking for a local payday. If we appoint Rafa, he can't lose.
Colin Glassar
3 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:51:23
Moshiri took over a club which was a bad joke and has turned it into a farce! We have been cursed with bad ownership for decades now and there are no signs of if changing in the near future.
Rob Young
4 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:53:37
Unless the Spanish One takes us into the Champions League and / or win a trophy (both unlikely), he can't even start to think he's winning the fans over who don't want him.

Does Moshiri truly believe he guarantees those targets, how can he? If not then it's a pointless appointment that has no chance of working out well.

Any bad run, or spell of poor football, and lots will be on his back, me included. It's a case of guilty until he proves us otherwise. Many, me included, are not going to give him the benefit of the doubt and it's a long time 'till February and a first possible trophy when large parts of the crowd are against you.

I'll be starting the "Red & White Shite" chant as soon as he comes out of that tunnel on opening day and will not apologise for it to anyone.

Jim Potter
5 Posted 18/06/2021 at 07:58:07
It will be an unpalatable choice for many, but ultimately someone has to make a choice. If his job description actually means anything, then it should be Brands choosing the right fit for the players he has already identified to come in this summer to blend with the ones he wants to remain.

Moshiri appears to be the one who is making that decision, with or without Brands's help. If he doesn't follow his Director of Football's advice then things are not what they should be.

The French guy and the older German bloke appear to be press red herrings, sadly. Nuno doesn't float my boat and Rafa sinks it. Potter would be fine by me but the compensation to the Seagulls may be prohibitive.

The pool (cess like by now?) grows ever smaller and we look ever more desperate and unprofessional.

Whoever gets it, and I include rotund Hispanic waiting staff, will ultimately get my support because, without the fans' backing, they and we are just in for more mediocrity and heartache.

Let Marcel make the best footballing decision.

Jerome Shields
6 Posted 18/06/2021 at 08:04:06
Lyndon this is a very good article, but what's Kenwright's role in this? To me this looks like a straight forward power struggle between Kenwright, the chairman, who controls the Club and Moshiri, who owns the Club, and controls the finances. As for Brands he is certainly not a Director of Football as we know it. He either, imo, is a supporter in one of these camps, or is trying to ride two horses at once, using the Circus metaphor. This has served him better, than doing the Director of Football job as it should be.

Kenwright stands for no radical change in the Club, which gives him his power, and Moshiri stands for controlling finance by the power of his funds. What we are seeing in the media is the power struggle between these two factions. This has been apparent well before this and has underlined the recruitement and removal of managers since Big Sam.

Going forward, today is a dangerous day. Friday is the day the old faithful Joe is given the bad news, so he can develop a sense of acceptance over the weekend. If not it will be next friday and something the same. Meanwhile Everton is being damaged.

This whole debacle shows a lack of real Management and a proper selection procedure, replaced by a factional power struggle. It has left a vaccum which will be filled by protest, anger and a the feeding of a beast of a Media frenzy. All being fed with relish by the parties involved. , trying to gain futile advantage , as far as the interests of Everton are concerned. All self perpetuating Everton's decline. We are now officially a laughing stock. Noone out there actually believes any of this will make any difference to Everton's fortunes on the pitch in the coming seasons.

Getting even more like Blood Brothers everyday.

Robert Tressell
7 Posted 18/06/2021 at 08:43:48
Bentitez is essentially the Spanish Allardyce. He will be able to organise a defensive structure that makes us very difficult to beat. As for the attack, it all comes down to the quality of player. Benitez exploited the largely untapped Spanish market 15 or so years ago (in the same way Wenger got an advantage tapping into the French market some years earlier). But that's a mature market now so the advantage has gone.

At WBA, I thought Allardyce did a very good job in fairness. He made the most of some limited players alongside the excellent Matteus Perreira. The football was quite good at times.

At Everton, I thought he bottled it after steadying a ship that wasn't especially unsteady anyway. It was as though he was in relegation fire-fighting mode and couldn't get his head round the idea that there was more to management. There was absolutely nothing to our attack under Allardyce as a consequence. He chucked away his big chance to become a respected manager at a proper club.

At Newcastle, I can't recall Benitez ever managing to find any chemistry or quality in attack. As many have pointed out, Steve Bruce is doing a better job.

So I can't really see why we'd expect anything more from Rafa than a continuation of the very boring and disappointing last 6 months. Likewise if we rehired Allardyce.

The trouble with both of them is short-termism. So with a comparatively weak squad they will both seek to grind their way to a top half league placing with mature players less likely to make mistakes. There will be no eye on a higher, future prize because managers like this know they are not part of that future.

And it is this approach that is killing the club. It puts us not only out of reach of unlikely top 4 aspirations, it also puts us out of reach of the disappointing heights Moyes reached for a decade.

Ian Burns
8 Posted 18/06/2021 at 08:50:17
Another terrific article, Lyndon, that again captures the mood of Evertonians everywhere. The analogy with the Hall of Mirrors is right on the money and the fact we are still reeling from "Ancelotti's betrayal has left a painful mark on the collective Evertonian soul" is playing its part in the choice of next manager – or, in the supporters' case, the preference for the next manager.

Whether there is serious discord at board level might not be accurate but there is certainly some different opinions playing a part and that is why we are seeing the leaking of just enough information to gauge supporters' reaction to certain potential candidates – eg: Rafa in particular.

As you say, we are not alone in trying to make the right choice; Spurs and to a lesser extent Crystal Palace are also having issues having to choose from a small pool of quality contenders.

After so much debate, no choice is going to be received positively by everybody and, from my point of view, they can take as much time as they want as long as they get it right.

Jimmy Hogan
9 Posted 18/06/2021 at 09:27:35
Who, eactly, is Kia Joorabchian and what his role in all of this?
Jerome Shields
10 Posted 18/06/2021 at 09:30:39
Ancelotti's leaving was more a case of him realising that he could not work with the management structures and personnel in place at Everton, rather than his betrayal.

In a scenario like Everton's current plight, scapegoatism is always part of the package. Ask Brands, if you can find him.

Ian Burns
11 Posted 18/06/2021 at 09:46:49
Jimmy - 9 - Kia Joorabchian was the person who was the third party owner when Tevez and Maschareno were brought to the UK. He is not a licensed agent but advises players and clubs on transfers etc. His connection to Moshiri is probably via his Iranian background, although he apparently holds two passports, one of them Canadian.

Jerome Shields
12 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:05:43
Jimmy #9,

He is a Iranian born UK businessman. He is not an agent recognised by the Premier League, but styles himself as an advisor to clubs and players. He has investment interest in over 70 players, mostly South American.

It has been reported at various times and via different outlets that he is an advisor to Moshiri and is part of the manager recruitment team, though this has not been verified. It has been reported that the manager recruitment team consisted if Brands, Kenwright, Moshir and another. This fourth person has been both rumoured to be Kia, or another, what I consider to be a reliable source, is not, but someone else.

On pure speculation, I would say that is Usmanov. Kia originally was reported as being involved in drawing up a list of candidates, though I would have thought the manager of River Plate would have been on the list. He wasn't. At the moment, he has appeared to disappear.

Michael Kenrick
13 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:09:38
Jerome @6,

You've admitted previously that you have no source for your conspiracy theories beyond the interminable depth of your overly fertile imagination.

How then does your claim for Moshiri and Kenwright being on opposite sides with respect to Benitez square with this information:

"Well, it sounds as if there are two big proponents for Benitez in Moshiri and Bill Kenwright. Moshiri is the one said to be the one that is pushing ahead with a deal for the Spaniard, while Duncan Castles reported previously on the Transfer Window podcast that Benitez was Kenwright's next choice after David Moyes."?

Ken Kneale
14 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:11:10
The mess that is Everton Football Club in 2021 gets worse every day and will continue to do so until the whole directorship of the club is ousted, along with the sycophants that have been appointed at all levels.

Until that moment arrives, no manager is capable of building a cohesive side with a plan, a system, an ethos and an identity.

I was and still am upset by Carlo Anchelotti's playing style and manner of departure but Jerome is correct – he was wise enough to see the foregoing.

Barry Hesketh
15 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:14:30
If this cycle of failure continues, we'll soon find out what it was like to be a Portsmouth fan all those years ago. I'm beginning to think that Moshiri is possibly the worst type of owner we could have brought to the club. He seems not brave enough to hire and fire the people he doesn't agree with on the board, but ignorant enough about football to make some truly awful decisions, decisions which should be left to those he appointed or who he kept on at the club.

If the football team continues to be run like it's the personal property of one individual, then the financial resources provided by that person will not help to build a cohesive team particularly if that individual appears to be blind to the realities of its limitations because he spent so much of his or the club's money on it.

From the outside, it appears that this owner will not listen to anybody at the club with real football knowledge, when major decisions about the direction of travel are required. The new stadium in isolation will not provide a miraculous path to glory, but it has become somewhat of a necessity for a major club in the 21st-century.

The stadium will be as much use as an injury-prone, over-the-hill striker, if the football team continues to be overseen by an owner, who wants to intervene in and override every decision that is made.

Bill Kenwright got away with that type of ownership for so long because he was or is seen as a true blue who had his heart in the right place, but lacked the resources to be able to achieve what the fans dreamt of.

Moshiri is an unknown quantity to most of the fans, and the only thing that Moshiri has of theirs - apart from the club itself - is their trust, if he breaks that trust by continuing to do as he pleases without acknowledging the effect it has on those fans who have remained loyal to the club for so long, then he is in danger of doing further damage to the club and its image, and of course, more importantly to him, it might do untolled damage to the value of his asset.

I don't know if any or all of what I've just written is anywhere near the truth or a flight of fancy, but what I do know is that the leaders at the club need to be better at communicating their aims and ambitions to each other first and foremost and when it's prudent to the rest of us.

They say that it is always darkest before the dawn, but as fans, we don't know how dark it may get or how long it may be until dawn arrives.

Christopher Timmins
16 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:18:47
The sole criterion in determining who should be appointed as the next manager is who is best equipped among the managers currently available to take us forward? End of story.

There was a massive backlash to the possibility of Moyes being appointed in late 2019, we might be in a better position today if we hired him back then.

One final point, it should be the Director of Football who appoints the new manger, not anyone else, and certainly not the contributors to this forum.

Jerome Shields
17 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:34:28

It will be ultimately Moshiri who will decide, using his advised judgement, who is the Manager. Kenwright will either agree or disagree according his own criteria.

Moshiri selected Big Sam, Silva and Anchelotti. Kenwright either agreed or disagreed. What happened after the Manager was installed played out accordingly. There comes a time in such a scenario where there is conflict, since it is nothing more than a power struggle.

I don'thing of this being a conspiracy it just a fact regarding organisations where control and power(financial) are not in the same hands Both parties are trying to run the Club according to different objectives.

A teams performance is determined by the calibre of the Management both on and of the pitch. You can not just parachute a Team Manager in and hope for the best.

Media speculation on who backs whom I find is futile, because sides can switch and say they support someone they don't.

I wish I was imagining what I am seeing at the moment regarding this debacle.

Dave Abrahams
18 Posted 18/06/2021 at 10:37:49
I have no time for Kenwright, as my many posts on here will testify, but this time I believe, although my information is second- or even third-hand, that the Chairman was stressing that the fan base would not accept Benitez. If he had gone along with the choice, Benitez would be Everton's manager now.

Whether he would do a good job is open to debate. He has a good CV, but it is a good few years since he won anything. Ancelotti came with a better record but that was also in the past and he did little to enhance his reputation in the time he was here; more likely, he tainted that reputation.

There is not any outstanding names available for the position and all we can do is join the guessing game as to who the will finish up as manager. For many of us Bluenoses, at the moment, the future doesn't look good and, when you look at the state of the boardroom, it gets even worse. I'm getting my prayer mat out that things will get better, starting with a good manager. That means an awful lot of prayers.

Len Hawkins
19 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:02:05
It is getting beyond a joke now another name this morning is Gattuso sacked by Napoli (haven't we already had a Napoli cast off) I'm not sure about his eyebrows so I can't really comment.
This whole debacle is making the club even more of a circus than it was before, the Pity Being it isn't a Billy Smart type Circus it's one of those cheap and nasty ones with about 4 staff who do everything from Box office to shovelling Elephant crap.
Ken Wright and his magical hedgehogs.
Jerome Shields
20 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:05:26
I agree with you regarding Kenwright. But the way I see the Benitez situation is that Kenwright does not want him, because he will be difficult to control and has a reputation of taking on hierarchies in Clubs he has Managed. a Fedup Farhad Moshiri is now prepared to install him as a kind if shock treatment for the Club, though imo the outcome is unpredictable. Benitez would be happy enough with a fat contract, job close to home and a billionaire owner's backing. As for the fans they should be easier managed than the Geordies.

Barry Rathbone
21 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:06:23
"Moshiri's Everton Less a Museum Than a Hall of Mirrors"

We need to take a minute to applaud the genius of this headline given Moshiri's initial "museum" observation - great stuff Lyndon.

I suspect the recent directorship "promotions" for Brands are a way of keeping him onside should his advice not be taken.

Chris Mason
22 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:10:08
I wouldn't be surprised if the Benitez furore is the result of the club (or an agent?) producing a smokescreen for a different appointment. Perhaps even to provoke other candidates (Nuno Espírito Santo?) to lower their demands.

The scale of the backlash to it is understandable, and in either situation it paints the club in a bad light. Frankly I'm feeling very ‘done' with all of it.

Dennis Stevens
23 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:13:01
Wouldn't it be marvelous to discover that behind all this shite in the media Everton have quietly negotiated with B&HA and Potter & his team, with the announcement coming later today? Instead, we'll probably re-hire Allardyce!
Tony McNulty
24 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:27:21
Moshiri owns the club and will make his choice based on how best to protect his investment. That explained the Allardyce appointment.

I guess he is more dispassionate than most of us about previous comments Benitez has made. (I loved the latter's attempts by way of the "small team" explanation - did Benitez advise Demonic Cummings over what to say about Barnard Castle?)

If Benitez is appointed (and I hope not) most us will still be here long after the latest mercenary has gone. I would give him two years maximum.

David Pearl
25 Posted 18/06/2021 at 11:44:14
A few weeks down the line we could have a new manager with heart and fight on a 3 year deal. A manager that will excite the fans and players alike. Brands could sign the 3 or 4 players we all know we need... and everything will look rosey again.

Or. We bring in a divisive manager and Brands takes till the last few days to bring in new faces.

Seems very likely now that these media outbursts about who is next have indeed been feelers. Pretty pathetic that our owner still doesn't understand what we are and what we demand to be.

Dave Evans
26 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:05:55
Great article explaining all the elements of the antipathy most blues fans have to a Rafa appointment.
I can only think that the reason Moshiri & Co are not going for a 'young manager with a plan' is that they think our current dressing room needs a strong hand and tough task master.
The fans may crave a young passionate manager who plays front-foot football but Benitez is the one with the fearsome reputation in coercing individuals into the team.
Rafa, in that sense, is a logical choice but still one that is a big mistake. If there was one thing our abysmal home record showed last season, it is that the fans need to be around and on board.
Ralph Basnett
27 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:27:02
I have already paid for my season ticket but if the Fat Spanish Waiter comes, and brings Connor fucking Coady, then my seat will remain empty.
James Stewart
28 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:29:26
@27 Great I'll take it off your hands, as we would be a lot more competitive in that situation than the present one.
Dave Abrahams
29 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:39:57
Dave (26), if Benitez is appointed would you give him a chance to prove he can change Everton's fortunes, that goes for a lot of other fans too, for what it's worth I would.
Tony Abrahams
30 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:40:27
I've heard a story, and it said that Usmanov is really involved in these talks. I've also heard a few things went down at yesterday's meeting, which I would describe as Bill Kenwright's, “Rock of Gibraltar” moment, with the most worrying, or positive words being spoken by the Big Uzbek himself. But luckily for some, these meetings are all on a zoom call apparently, which must have definitely helped Mr Kenwright's red face, after he was put in his place.

If it was all on a zoom call, how could I possibly know? Exactly I say, take no fuckin notice of me!

Why would any Evertonian want Agent Benitez? I love Evertonians, but our club is full of them, and because it's a very long time since we could ever be described as winners, the harsh reality is, we need real change, away from a cozy little place, that is full of familiarity.

Iain Latchford
31 Posted 18/06/2021 at 12:45:06
Tony, what is alleged to have been said at this meeting? I'm intrigued.
Jerome Shields
32 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:00:45

Very interesting. Is Usmanov the Fourth Man?

Robert Tressell
33 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:06:39
Dave #29. If Benitez is appointed and does a magnificent job, then I probably will eat humble pie and give the guy credit. Pretty much everyone will, I'm sure.

The trouble is, like Ancelotti, he is not a magician. In fact, he's very much a poor man's Ancelotti and latterly even a poor man's Bruce or the Spanish Allardyce.

So, if we're going to appoint a deeply uninspiring, average, has-been, why does it have to be this one?

There are plenty of other average, has-been managers to pick from.

Dave Abrahams
34 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:33:27
Robert (33), the question was: If Benitez is appointed, would you give him a chance to prove he can improve our fortunes?
Trevor Peers
35 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:42:31
There no smokescreen about Benitez IMO. He or Nuno will be taking the job by the weekend. I hope it's Nuno because he would clear out all the present backroom staff and give us a fresh start which we desperately need. After years of ex-Everton players being hired in different coaching positions, which has produced absolutely no success at all, it's time for a dramatic clear-out.

Benitez would keep all the hangers-on and nothing will change under his stewardship. If it is him, though, we have no option other than to accept it or not bother watching the Blues at all, which I think a lot of fans may decide to do. Personally, I'd back him until it was obviously doomed to failure.

Anthony Murphy
36 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:48:31
"... there is a palpable yearning for something to rekindle the spirit of the Blues — a young manager capable of building a cohesive side with a plan, a system, an ethos and, again, an identity."

I can only presume either Dunc doesn't actually want the job (contrary to popular belief) or Brands et al have run the rule over him and don't think he's good enough? It seems mad to me that given the situation, we wouldn't at least take a chance for a season with Ferguson. I would understand the calls for experience had this been mid-way through a season and we were struggling.

Mark Taylor
37 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:01:44
I wasn't that bothered about Ancelotti leaving, other than the mess it has placed us in. I would happily have given him another season, we are too trigger happy on hire and fire, but let's face it, the second half of last season was some of the worst football I've ever seen us play, going back to the sixties. And that period has included some pretty awful football.

I have always felt Usmanov is lurking in the background here. Moshiri isn't rich enough to risk the amount of money this club has spent in recent years. That has been the tragedy for me, after a decade or more of having a skint owner, finally we get some real budget but it gets blown on mediocrities.

In my opinion, the owner(s) have an unusual opportunity right now in relation to supporter expectations. If the right candidate could be found (Potter?) who would be part of a commitment to recruit young hungry players playing progressive football, I think we as fans might be willing to be more patient than might normally be the case. All we need to is avoid relegation which should be more than possible. Given all the dross we have put up with recently, the right long term project with the right people is something I'd be willing to give time, multiple years, to work. We can't go on with this hiring and firing. That is the problem with Benitez, patience with him will be in short supply among the supporters if results are poor. His recruitment will sharply increase the odds of us being on our 10th manager in little more than 5 years. We can't go on like that.

Brent Stephens
38 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:05:21
Jerome (various posts, various threads). - you're a mine of inside information re Moshiri, Bill, Brands etc; I honestly don't know where you get it all from. Any updates from Moshiri?
Ralph Basnett
39 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:06:22
James @28 if you think Rafa and Coady deserve to be at EFC you don't deserve any kind of seat. Ha Ha.
Robert Tressell
40 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:14:49
Dave #34.

Being realistic, I would give him a chance in the same way I did Allardyce (which I also thought was a humiliating appointment). I'll be disillusioned, certainly, as I consider this worse than Allardyce but it doesn't stop me supporting the team.

In any case, my anger at this won't be directed at Benitez personally, it will be directed at the club management if they choose to appoint him. They have managed to waste a wonderful opportunity over the past 5 years and the appointment of Benitez would indicate that wasted opportunity is all part of the next 5 years too.

Si Cooper
41 Posted 18/06/2021 at 14:32:03
“It seems mad to me that, given the situation, we wouldn't at least take a chance for a season with Ferguson.”

Really? Hand over a re-building job to someone who, as far as we know, has never been involved in contributing to player recruitment? It seems mad to me that we would do that.

Do people imagine Big Dunc carries around a folder labelled “My managerial plans” in a state of perpetual readiness for when the big day finally arrives?

I presume some transfer deals are already in progress and Brands will keep plugging away, but with the various international compwtitions at the moment, there probably isn't a great amount of dealing to be done at the moment. The players are all on their holibobs so why not take a bit of time over this appointment to really try to make a decent choice?

Ed Prytherch
42 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:03:19
Maybe Duncan can be a good and successful head coach with Brands doing what he was hired to do. It should be easier for Brands to be successful, working with someone who just wants to be a very good coach than a more experienced "manager" who will try to override him.
Jay Harris
43 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:10:11
Excellent piece as always.

The truth is none of us knows what is really going on at GP or FF but we do know its not good.

Managers and players thrive in a well run club that has harmony.

When it is dysfunctional as it seems to be even the best do not achieve their capabilities.

What we do know is there is a lack of any "real" football people at the top of the club.

Moshiri may be good with money but is a fantasist at football.

Kenwright is just a dreamer.

DBB need I say anything.

Ryantz is a finance man.

Brands is the only one with football knowledge and experience yet appears to be overridden on occasions.

When a manager comes in and is controlled by a dysfunctional board we get nowhere and that is exactly where we have been headed since Kenwright took over apart from a few years under Moyes which is the only decision Kenwright has ever got lucky with.

Dave Evans
44 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:15:44
Dave #29,

I would give him a chance. No choice.

Because when Everton are playing, like a lot of fans, I watch them. Sometimes a bit like when you get one in the 'nevers' and you double up. The cause and the effect are both undesirable but the link between the two unbreakable.

Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:16:44
I believe that Sasha is involved, Jerome, and if it's true about Usmanov, then he's surely Numero Uno, but I just heard the “money-man” put Kenwright in his place, and if it's true, FINALLY.
Peter Mills
46 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:27:37
Dave #29,

I will continue to go to Goodison if Benitez is appointed. I support Everton Football Club.

However, his arrival would not sit comfortably with me. I have never liked the man, he spouts some absolute drivel at times. He would also have very little goodwill, the crowd would have no patience or tolerance, and it would take very little for the atmosphere to turn hostile – I'm tired of that.

If for no other reasons than those, it would be a foolish appointment.

Brian Murray
47 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:27:41
Remember that first and maybe last TV interview with Moshiri, as some Alladin playwriter drooled over him. He said he wants to energise the club. Still waiting...
Mike Gaynes
48 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:49:15
Len #19, Gattuso was sacked by Napoli after winning 57% of his games there, while playing an exciting, passionate brand of football. None of the other "candidates" has remotely a record like that.

He may or may not be a good possibility, but he sure as hell isn't a "joke".

Kieran Kinsella
49 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:56:07

Where did you get this Usmanov story? These things seem to pop up routinely. Obviously USM has involvement but I would have thought that if Usmanov was calling the shots then someone by now would have got this to the press. Most obvious candidate being Bill Kenwright who has no problem telling the press anything and everything (unless it's a question about his own actions)

Alan Brazil on Talksport claims that his "Everton source" (Maybe Kenwright?) says Brands is willing to resign if Benitez comes on board

Danny O’Neill
50 Posted 18/06/2021 at 15:58:50
Another quality read Lyndon.

True point; the truth is, we don't what is going on behind the scenes. Perhaps Brands is leading the charge on behalf of the owner and doing his due diligence on potential candidates as well as looking for ones not even being mentioned by the press or that we know about.

There are never any knowns in the appointment of managers or the purchase of players in football. But maybe, for once, there is realisation at the top that we have got this wrong too many times recently. I'll give them that they were caught off guard with Ancelotti's seemingly sudden departure. So the hope is, they have learned lessons and are approaching this with much more consideration this time and letting the DoF do his job.

Please let them surprise me. But I've just read back and realised I used words like "perhaps", "maybe" and "hope" (again).

Iakovos Iasonidis
52 Posted 18/06/2021 at 16:27:45
Hard reality check - our club is steadily heading backwards and there is nothing on the horizon to tell any different. Building a new stadium doesn't mean a thing on its own. Mediocrity at its finest. This is our club.
Dale Self
53 Posted 18/06/2021 at 16:55:36
Thank you Lyndon for elevating the discussion although some of the setup seems a bit harsh, so be it.

A couple of random things: First, tried to search but whoever suggested preservation of player valuations and getting the locker room under control would be Moshiri's motivations, I agree. This might explain a divergence between Moshiri, Bill and Brands. Owners don't like being embarrassed by their product and it could be motivating their rather paleolithic approach. Second, ah crap, senior moment, hold on with that.

Oh yeah, the wait. This is the price for not coming to the microphone and explaining the last breakdown. I really don't trust anyone but Brands for that take and clearly some don't want him broadcasting that. Wait it out, it is painful but it is not the deathknell of our club. KNELL!

Dave Abrahams
54 Posted 18/06/2021 at 17:03:12
Robert(40)as you say, you would give Benitez a chance if he was appointed although there are lots of reasons not to appoint him and Dave (44) agrees with that because we have no choice but accept him once he is selected, and Peter (46) says he would continue to follow the Blues although it wouldn't sit comfortably with him if Benitez becomes manager, and I asked the question, so I would understand all of those replies and say I would be in the same boat as them while giving Benitez a chance to see if he makes any difference to what has happened over the last five years, my expectations would not be very high, but we may all be pleasantly surprised, if he is appointed, can he do any worse than the last few appointments, can any of those on the list do any worse?
Kieran Kinsella
55 Posted 18/06/2021 at 17:13:04
Dave 54

"but we may all be pleasantly surprised" Wise words. I remember brown nosing and lobbying for a new manager in my career field. Quickly realized that was a mistake and fermented an insurrection to get rid of that boss. Meanwhile, I've had others I thought would be a nightmare and have ended up having fruitful working relationships with.

Phillip Warrington
56 Posted 18/06/2021 at 17:27:06
It doesn't matter who the manager is... unless we can off-load some big-name players, we are going to be hit with Financial Fair Play penalties if not transfer ban or point penalties. Either way, they are not going to have money to splash, even with selling some of our so-called better players.

But, as far as Everton's wages are concerned, if you take a look at 2016-2020 (the most recent figures), wages went from 䀀M to 𧵝M. That's an increase of 㿽M during the same period that revenue only increased by 㿨M. Some of that was on the back of the unusual naming rights deal for Bramley-Moore Dock.

Barry Lightfoot
57 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:01:55
Why do people keep saying Steve Bruce is doing a better job at Newcastle when his win percentage is 31.8 and Benitez's was 42.5 overall and 33 just for Premiership games. Only slight I know but still better, and no I don't want him either.
Michael McLoughlin
58 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:14:22
Good article Lyndon and very thought provoking. It's interesting we have had a number of odds on favorites for the job Nuno was 1/3 at one point and Rafa 1/25, Graham Potter was even and odds on shot for a short while. All I might add driven by articles, false or otherwise from the press. I actually like the fact no news is coming out of Finch Farm, Goodison or the Blue Liver buildings. Before Ancelotti was appointed I hadn't even heard he was linked then he was in.
Ancelotti was a rat for what he did and I think he did it because he realized that the premier league was beyond his capabilities at the time in his career. But he's gone and we move in.
Whether it's Benitez, Nuno, Potter or Favre, I don't know but I do believe the board will make the right choice for manager which will be best for EFC.
I myself have stated that Kenwrught and Moshiri are secret Kopites given some of the shenanigans which have gone on since Farhad came in. But I do believe the club is on the up and the right decision of manager will be made.
Sports reporting at the moment is so poor makes you wonder if we will ever get as good a read as this article
Danny O’Neill
59 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:26:07
Dave @54. I'm hoping it's no-one on the "list". Not hopeful, but hoping.

But, if it is, and whoever it is, we have no option to give them a chance as we want Everton to win. Depending on who it is will undoubtedly dictate how long that chance lasts with the supporters.

I couldn't stand Allardyce. I was dismayed we appointed him and wanted him gone as soon as possible. Some couldn't abide Ancelotti, but we all wanted Everton to win and be successful.

The longer this drags on, the more I'm hopeful we are giving this careful consideration and seeking options.

I'm using words based on "hope" again. Not words like confident.

Jerome Shields
60 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:32:47

Yes glad to hear that. Money men tend to get a bit tichey when someone tries to speak with authority using their money.

Jerome Shields
61 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:36:25

Moshiri will be on his sofa in Monoco, watching Italian Television with subtitles and no sound, when the new Manager is announced.

Brent Stephens
62 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:47:43
Jerome, I do believe you're right. More reports, please!
Christy Ring
63 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:48:25
Another very thorough article Lyndon. If Rafa was the successful candidate, I'd have to grin and bare it. But what I cannot understand, what has he done in the last ten years to be even considered? Regarding Kenwright, he sold his majority share to Moshiri, so how can there be a power struggle, he has no say whatsoever.

Ray Mia
64 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:52:42
It has been an awful long time since I've been on this website. Time, life, kids, moving continents (twice) - moving house (thrice)... I've dropped in from time to time, but mostly switched off and away as I got tired of the bile, and even more tired of the broken record logic - and pretty poor editorial diversity (in thinking as opposed to some woke representation)

But you know some things never change.
Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has got one.

I've read some incoherent nonsense in my time, but some of these posts and some of the logic in this article simply make me laugh out loud.

How disconnected from reality this article is, and all the noise engulfing anger pouring out from some of you is truly astounding.

The entire case for this article is "we don't know what are you doing, tell us what you are doing, we don't know anything - ARGGHHHHH" then a series of jigsaw thinking based on news articles, unverified and unsubstantiated rumour and supposition.

Clearly, most on this website don't want Rafa.
Most of you also if I remember spent 11yrs going on about how dreadful Moyes was.
I also remember how many of you bemoaned and ridiculed Martinez
Don't recall Koeman, or Allardyce or Silva or Ancelotti - but I'm sure there were many on this site that screamed murder at all of them.

You're not all happy, are you?

What are the alternatives in the real world?
Look at Spurs, Palace - they're looking also, but it's a tough market to hire right now...

I couldn't care less who Benitez managed beforehand, just like I didn't care that Sheedy used to play for the Reds...

I care that we win games, and I would really like us to win a trophy again.
All of this "Moshiri is ruining the club" Do you guys/gals not remember the years and years and years of zero investment?

I want us to move to a new stadium on the Dock Road, and I want investment to buy players and keep the better players.

If Benitez brings us success, and from the list of other candidates available, he has the better CV. The noise about his time at Newcastle - he's not won anything for ages, well I would say getting them promoted and staying in the League 10th and 14th I think - that's like winning the FA Cup for Newcastle, on that budget (none) can any of you name a single player he had in his team? And all of this - he is boring to watch - really? with that win record and trophy haul?

With who is available... and if you cry foul from the highest mountains about Benitez, why isn't anyone screaming about Duncan getting the job? With budget, with backing... Coleman and Baines promoted up...

The problem with all that is we all know what will happen.
Nice on the heart, but we will get relegated...

We need someone who has been there and got the scars.
We don't need a Potter or a Howe to do another Silva and Martinez and Koeman...

To be honest, nothing is worse than Allardyce and Sammy Lee Sammy Lee... remember that... Sammy Lee...

On a last note and apologies if someone has already mentioned this in an article or post. Real Madrid and Barcelona both currently managed by Ex-Everton Managers... think that's a first.

You know what - lets get Conte in and give him £500m to spend and cut our loses on the players we need to cut, pay out their contracts and get rid. That's what Moshiri gives us... have a look at Benitez's player record - he's recruited some great talent when he's had the funds... Conte? hmmmm



I prefer to just remain calm and wait - with the money and investment we have today - thanks entirely to Moshiri, I would take this as opposed to the years of under-investment and Kenwright not having any cash, and Moyes never beating top 4 sides as he went to all away games to park a bus and act like a "small club" and get a draw (as that was meant to feel like a win) or to not simply get hammered - which we did, regularly because - he did, and we all remember that's what he did, and he's doing it again at The Hammers... Moyes brought us down to a level of mediocrity and small thinking where we lost our identity as a big club with aspirations and goals and a winning mentality... and it was infuriating as there were times where we just wanted Moyes to go for it... but I don't see anyone getting all angry about the idea of Moyes returning (before he extended his contract) don't you all remember he walked away to United and then came back to gut the club - remember? "I would never stand in the way of a player if he wanted to leave and join a bigger club..." Remember? - oh what you're saying Moyes, is. that we are a small club? (ahem)

You know what... think about it... what Benitez said, the reason why it causes so much anger... perhaps because there is more than an element of truth behind what he said.

If Moshiri appoints Benitez as manager and gives him a great budget, and we sell some deadwood, and he trains up youth and brings back loanees... and Coleman/Baines/Duncan get more coaching experience... and he goes all out to win a trophy next year (he's won more trophies - bar our last manager!! than our other last 5 managers - combined...)

Then I would support him.
It would rile up the Reds.
And better still - it would perhaps shake up some of you on this message board - stir up some reality checks about who we are, what we are, where we are, where we are going...

Same noise as those of you who want to stay at Goodison.
Head in the sand... no sense of reality.

Just remember - Allardyce - and Sammy Lee
nothing ever could get worse than that... ever...
Remember how we played...
And I don't care Carlo left, at the beginning, it was ace, the signings, awesome... but 10th and the way we played at the end... bye bye and thanks for telling DCL to score some goals...

Whoever it is, and I would be happy with Benitez, nothing could hurt as much as Allardyce and Sammy Lee...

That's what a small club does folks

Derek Moore
65 Posted 18/06/2021 at 18:53:51
Following this club feels like you're a watching a Marx Brothers marathon on loop for about thirty years. Like it or not.

I have been quietly concerned about our ownership for some time. No part of recent events have alleviated my fears there either.

We are in danger of becoming the crazy cat ladys club at this rate. We have no chance of any real success with such a counterproductive structure underpinning the clubs decision making model. Five hundred odd million pissed away and apparently the penny still hasn't dropped. What a time to be an Evertonian, what a time to be alive.

Bill Gall
66 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:15:27
I don't believe there is any power struggle between Moshiri and B.K. Moshiri is the owner of the club due to his majority share holding, he appointed B.K as chairman, a minority shareholder, because of his knowledge of the everyday running of the club.
As Lyndon infers, nobody has any idea who is really heading the search for a manager and most of we hear is speculation from journalists and sports writers who say they have inside information.

The closest information is the odds bookies offer as they are one company that do not like to loose money and even they are not always rite.

I keep an open mind on who the manager will be and support him, but will say, that with the last name for manager no news is good news.

I fully supported Ancelotti when he was hired and hoped he was going to continue, but all my respect for him went out the window with how he left. With all the managers we hired since Moyes left he is the one who simply kicked the club in the balls and I hope supporters remember this.

I hope the Owner and directors don't panic and hire someone just to have someone in place soon, but carefully vet every name to insure they get the person who can move the club forward with a style and tactics that will win over the fans, even if to some of them it is controversial.

Bill Gienapp
67 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:19:57
Media speculation should always be taken with a pinch of salt, but it seems to have been particularly out-of-control over this past week.

Nuno was reportedly a done deal. It wasn't. Rafa reportedly had an offer and all he needed to do was sign. Clearly he didn't. I'm not going to get riled up or cast aspersions on the club until I actually know what's going on.

Rob Dolby
68 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:50:19
If Moshiri was deadly serious about improving us he would have appointed Conte before now and promised him a war chest. He is the best manager currently available in world football.

Instead we are back in the bargain bin looking at sticking plaster managers whilst Moshiri and USM start the regeneration of the North end with the Russian Rubles flowing.

He has taken ownership of the club and in 5 years hasn't got rid of Kenwright or seriously altered the ethos at the club. I was hoping that he would get us challenging and steadily improve and raise our profile. His Motives for buying the club are looking less like bringing us back from the dead year on year.

Shaun Laycock
69 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:51:38
Nice summary Lyndon. What I am certain of is that no one is certain of what goes on in the boardroom. Speculation sells copy and get clicks. Let's see how things pan out as I am sure none of us have the full story.
Joe McMahon
70 Posted 18/06/2021 at 19:56:25
Rob@68 if it was Bargin Bin then the dynamic duo would be announcedof Ferguson and Unsworth. It may well be yet, then we really will take Europe by storm🤣
Derek Taylor
71 Posted 18/06/2021 at 22:17:55
Jerome @49; I heard it was KENWRIGHT who threatened to resign if Benitez were to be appointed not Brands - he is an Executive director ( a staffer) with a couple of token shares and no power !
Terry White
72 Posted 18/06/2021 at 22:23:21
Derek (#71), you've "heard" - so it must be true. As has been said many times previously, none of us knows what is really happening so anything that suggests otherwise is purely speculation and should be ignored.
Jay Wood

73 Posted 18/06/2021 at 23:38:58
A nicely crafted editorial Lyndon as always, but not an article that resonates with me.

Why? Because even though you recognize in your opening paragraph that the search for a new manager is bedevilled by ‘swirling speculation, erratic reports and planted narratives' you yourself succumb to the charge that ‘perception has become reality'.

You yourself write that Carlo Ancelotti's departure was sudden and unexpected. The club was totally blindsided and unprepared for this. This is not their failing.

It is just over two weeks that this was sprung on Everton. Unlike Spurs, who sacked Mourinho mid-April so have had much longer to find someone to replace him. Two months on, still no new manager in situ at Spurs. Sheffield United took two and a half months to replace Chris Wilder.

Similar could be said of Palace and WBA where, unlike Everton, it was known before the end of the season that Roy Hodgson and Sam Allardyce were leaving. Still both looking to appoint a new manager. Wolves did likewise with NES and seemingly had a succession plan in place. It still took them longer than Everton to date to name their new man.

In your own editorial you also admit ‘Without any concrete information, none of us mere mortal supporters knows what the real story is and it would appear that the media aren't much the wiser'.

Yet knowing all this you choose to conclude that the club ‘is a circus'…'wracked by indecision and internal conflict.'

Why the negative assessment of the club? Why should the club make a public statement, daily or otherwise, on the search for a new manager as you and others suggest?

In everything and anything I've read or heard about the search for a new manager nothing – nothing at all! – can be traced back to the club and its officers as its source. If many choose to give credence to such gossip (and this from ‘the meedjah' that many of the posters express contempt for) then that is their prerogative. I would add it is also their failing, not the club's.

On what now stretches into thousands of posts on the subject on TW, the club, the board, the owner and individual directors are attributed as being stupid, negligent, unmindful of the fan base, indulging in Machiavellian and subversive practices that wouldn't be out of place in a John le Carré novel. And a lot more besides, many of which contradict other charges laid against them.

Whatever happened to the rationale of critical thinking?

Nothing in the public domain about Everton's search for a new manager is first hand, not even second hand. It's all third-fourth-fifth hand, founded on out-and-out speculation.

The ‘meedjah'. Online bookies. Fans.

Nobody. Knows. Nuffink.

Yet so many believe…everything.


Drew O’Neall
74 Posted 18/06/2021 at 23:45:18
Jay, the articulate voice of reason.
Lyndon Lloyd
75 Posted 19/06/2021 at 00:43:45
Jay (73): “ In your own editorial you also admit ‘Without any concrete information, none of us mere mortal supporters knows what the real story is and it would appear that the media aren't much the wiser'. Yet knowing all this you choose to conclude that the club ‘is a circus'…'wracked by indecision and internal conflict.' ‘'

I didn't conclude this at all. What I said was that if perception is reality then the club has become a circus. I didn't say it was a circus; I merely inferred that it looks that way from the outside.

I admit that the headline is a little more conclusive than the general thrust of the article, which was essentially to illustrate that the lack of communication is fostering frustration and the deepening links with Benitez are causing angst, to the degree that offensive banners are being hung outside Goodison Park.

The article is laced with caveats that we don't know what is truly going on but the narrative that has persisted since Koeman was sacked of differing opinions and boardroom disagreements over candidates is never challenged. Either someone wants it that way or it's just bad PR.

Don Alexander
76 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:07:03
Some people can never let plain English get in the way of a patronising, lengthy opinion Lyndon.

Few people expect a running commentary from our boardroom, unless it's about charity of course. It's the only thing they've had a modicum of visible success in after all.

Kieran Kinsella
77 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:34:46
Positivity at last that's Everton related. A fellow named Prosper from Nigeria just posted a lovely pic of his beautiful little 2 year old girl roaming the streets of Lagos wearing an Everton shirt with an almighty grin on her face on Twitter. It's got more likes than the latest manager rumors. Poor lass doesn't know what she's getting into but it made me smile.
Jay Wood

78 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:42:43
Jay Wood

79 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:42:43
Lyndon, I suggest you read your opening paragraph again.

You don't use the conditional 'if' at all. Your first sentence sets the scene ('Amid swirling speculation, erratic reports and planted narratives within a vacuum of communication from the people in charge) followed by a declarative statement ('perception has become reality and, in the wake of Carlo Ancelotti's sudden departure, Everton resembles something of a circus at the moment').

The second sentence in your opening paragraph uses the modal verb 'may' (for possibility) highlighted in italics. ('Things may be under control behind the scenes, with Marcel Brands diligently fulfilling his brief as Director of Football and calmly assessing a list of managerial candidates to fill the Italian's shoes'), followed by the conjuction 'but' which is used to contrast the first clause with a contrary view ('but the impression from the outside is of a club wracked by indecision and internal conflict').

So sorry again Lyndon, but you are not 'inferring' at all. Twice you make two clear declarative statements that 'Everton resembles a circus...wracked by indecision and internal conflict', reinforced as you yourself note by the declarative unequivocal headline to your editorial.

They are declarations I don't agree with.

James Flynn
80 Posted 19/06/2021 at 01:45:51
Jay (73) - Agree with all. Spoken fairly.

Derek Moore
81 Posted 19/06/2021 at 04:06:54
"They are declarations I don't agree with."

You could and ought to have just written that.

"The second sentence in your opening paragraph uses the modal verb 'may' (for possibility) highlighted in italics. ('Things may be under control behind the scenes, with Marcel Brands diligently fulfilling his brief as Director of Football and calmly assessing a list of managerial candidates to fill the Italian's shoes'), followed by the conjuction 'but' which is used to contrast the first clause with a contrary view ('but the impression from the outside is of a club wracked by indecision and internal conflict')."

Thanks for the rather dull English lesson I guess.

If this was any other poster you'd think it was a wind up. Lyndon would have to be one of the most articulate posters here, yet he gets a crash course in writing for comprehension! Truly bizarre.

For what it's worth, the club certainly does appear a circus from the outside - as gleeful fans of other clubs keep telling me. For all the semantics and long winded posts nothing substantive was offered on why Lyndon was incorrect, other than an explanation of "I don't agree".

The alternative to a "circus" would be a well run, thorough and professional organization. Jay, in less than a billion words, would you care to explain why you feel Everton more resemble the latter than Lyndons characterization?

Kieran Kinsella
82 Posted 19/06/2021 at 04:15:11

I thought about it but you did it. Saved me the hassle. I'm enjoying my Darrenless honeymoon too much. Makes me think of the old joke “who led the pedants revolt?” Which Tyler.

Lyndon Lloyd
83 Posted 19/06/2021 at 05:46:28
Jay (79), the statements are only declarative in the context of perception being reality in the eyes of supporters. “It resembles a circus” does not mean it is a circus.

The whole point of the article is that things may not be as they appear but in the absence of anything concrete, with the old adage of “no smoke without fire” and with the unilateral appointment of Allardyce as a precedent, speculation and frustration is filling the void.

I'll say it again, through four years of managerial upheaval under Moshiri and even with a Director of Football in place, no one has moved to dispel the narrative of disagreement / conflicting voices behind the scenes. The longer that confusion is allowed to fester, the more it opens the hierarchy up to the assumption/belief that there isn't a coherent strategy.

Again, they may want it that way but the angst caused in the interim only increases the pressure to get the final appointment right.

Barry Hesketh
84 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:22:20
Guillem Balague tweeted a series of claims yesterday - Is this guy Benitez's agent? If not how come he seems to have inside information on Everton FC and who's pulling the strings?

Some think that Rafa Benitez belongs to another time. Really? Let's see the evidence. A biased but researched thread:
At Chelsea, he left them third and Europa League winners (one of the 13 titles won in his career!!!)

At Napoli he won 2 titles to a Juve that used to win everything. Plus a semis of the Europa League. He signed Albiol, Reina, Koulibaly, Jorginho, Higuaín, Callejón... last season the club called him four time to take over the side again

At Real Madrid, he left the team top of the Champions League and clearly with options in the league. Six months is no time to evaluate anything like others would tell you (Lopetegui, for instance)

At Newcastle, not only Rafa took the team up as Champions, he kept them up and made them solid while making 㿊m to the club (that is, with a squad which quality was being reduced, something no other manager had had to deal with at that extend in the last decade at the club)

In China (Dalian Professional) he changed the first team mentality and imposed modern methodology throughout the club. They wanted him to stay two more seasons, €12m net. He needed to go back to family in the middle of a pandemic. Money is not his motivation, a top project is

Not to mention he carries the incalculable value of experience in the Premier League and the knowledge of how the city of Liverpool works and thinks.

Right now, and fans do not see this, the club clearly needs a shake up indoors. That is the conclusion of the owners It's a turning point for Everton and for owners Moshiri but mostly Usmanov

Two forces are at play and fans should consider that -those that want nothing to change and in fear of it, and those -the ambitious Usmanov included- that feel club needs an impulse from top to bottom

It does look more like a plea for a client/friend than anything concrete and Guillem Balague may just have read TW and other fansites to jump to the conclusion that something is broken at Everton and needs fixing, with according to Balague, Benitez being a central plank to carry out those repairs.

Colin Glassar
85 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:31:47
Thanks Barry. It's thoughtful posts like that that make TW so readable. I'm not comfortable with his (possible) appointment but that is certainly food for thought.
Phil Wood
86 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:40:45
Great and thought provoking post Barry. A big reality check on the man's talents without the sourness.
I really couldn't give a monkeys about past comments made or who he managed in the past.
Our Club needs "fixing" and if he is the man to do it then so be it.
I wanted Potter or Howe but if Rafa may be the answer then I am happy to give him a chance.
We need a fix and fast.

Andrew Ellams
87 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:42:31
Barry, not sure about the rest but he didn't win two titles at Napoli, or even one.
Phil Wood
88 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:46:43
Ha Ha!
A near reality check then.
Steve Lew
89 Posted 19/06/2021 at 09:56:01
Let's just take a reality check here,the apparent circus at Everton is nothing in comparison to whats happening at Tottenham,,,,they can't get a manager for love or money and their recent achievements are far greater than ours.
As far as Benitez goes listen he is tactically very very good our problems are not just crap managers but more shite players..I don't like the idea of an ex red manager but we are going into another season way off the pace yet again..someone has to redress this situation and right now I don't have a first choice manager in mind Conte would be astounding but inevitable problems would lie a no no for me don't know why just a feeling...success is pace and we have none..quite a few of the current team just need to go that was evident before Carlo brought in the players he did...they got injured we were back to square one...right now I am worried about this coming season
Clive Rogers
90 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:01:02
At Napoli Benitez won the Coppa Italia and the Super Coppa Italiana, whatever that is. They will be the two titles Barry means.
Barry Hesketh
91 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:01:41
I can only assume that Guillem Balague got his Napoli's mixed up with his Valencia's - different countries, different teams, no Juventus in La Liga :)
Jerome Shields
92 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:16:59

Your Two Forces quote is easy to understand and I do believe there are Two forces, but it is imo more complicated than change via ambition. For some reason it suits the Moshiri &Co to have Kenwright &Co in place. There would appear to a agreement between both parties from the outset, probably formal , on who runs the Club, controlling demarcation of roles. Recent Board promotions reinforce this. The exception is the Manager Role. It appears that Moshiri &Co want to be arms length, for their own reasons. The resulting Two Forces are Control and Power. The problem is they are not both heading in different directions.

So if even if Benitez is appointed will the Power Force disappear and leave the Control Force to get on with the job, as they have done in the past.

The problem is that the Power Force does not want to change the arrangement. They want to parachute in a Manager with their idea that he will be able to injuice necessary changes both on the pitch and off it.

Anchelotti was forced to resort to Public pronouncements against all and sundries within Everton to try to change things. He left soon after that beaten. Benitez will be the same, unless he insists on backroom changes as a condition of taking the Manager's role. We already know the opinion of the Control Force regarding Benitez. The process to get rid has already start. If Benitez is not able to start the change process immediately , if selected, he is beat before the season starts. If he is able to, there will be marginal success. Real Success would only achieved if change is actually implemented as your Two Forces quote suggests. The Manager simply does not have the power to do that

Conor McCourt
93 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:41:04
Barry I do wish posters like you if you don't know what you are talking about would refrain from putting up bullshit to try and influence others.

Since Liverpool Benitez took over Inter which carried all before them under Mourinho, they had just won a treble (cups and CL), and had won five titles and a second place finish pre-Benitez but the Spaniard led them to a dismal sixth when he was sacked. He did win the charity shield and club World Cup, two trophies he only qualified for thanks to his predecessor.

He took over Chelsea who had won the Champions League the season before. Benitez guided them to third (in years between 2003-15 they finished lower than third once and third only three times). They were knocked out of the Champions League( mostly due to Di Matteo) and he won Europa League( a competition they rarely entered). He failed to win a cup or the world club cup.

Next to Napoli where in his two seasons he guided them to third and fifth. They had finished second the season before and four times in that decade. Once again the fifth place finish was their worst for a decade and only eclipsed by the disastrous season under Ancelotti. It was however at Napoli where he had his only significant real achievement in the last decade in winning the Cup. He did have a favourable run and only beat Fiorentina in the final but still an excellent achievement all the same. He also won the Charity Shield there also.

Newcastle most will know was pretty uninspiring except for his promotion with the richest club in the division as was a poor spell in China.

Derek Thomas
94 Posted 19/06/2021 at 10:51:47
Barry @ 84; I don't think Benitez belongs in another time...just another club.
David Pearl
95 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:01:26
The problem, as has been since Martinez left, is that there are always 2 voices regarding recruitment.

How can we have any kind of working strategy?

Koeman got Cuco & Klaasen. Walsh got Siggy, Keane, Pickford.

Silva came in with Richarlison.
Allardyce Walcott and Tosun.

Brands got Digne, Mina, Godfrey, Doucoure, lwobi (ffs).
Carlo got Allan, James.

I've missed lots out but you can fill in the gaps.

Surely now its time to finally... finally let Brands do his job.

Shape and balance the squad.
Hire a coach that plays to their strengths and not have him get his couple players into the mix.

If it doesn't work out then hire another coach that at least has something to work with and not have to constantly re-shape, re-recruit and then have Brands spend half his time trying to rid us of players that are either not good enough or don't fit.

I've lost count of the number of players we still have on the books that we don't need... even after we've just finally got shut of a handful of them.

Dave Abrahams
96 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:10:48
Barry (84), I'm not worried about Benitez's past good, bad or indifferent, Ancelotti had a brilliant CV, didn't help him at Everton, which I think you are trying to point out to Everton fans, and I agree with, it's the boardroom which needs changing first and foremost or we will never improve on the field. It looks like Usmanov realises this and is trying to invest HIS investment by improving the background of the club, I hope he succeeds and Everton become a Harrods instead of a corner shop business, which is how we are run at the moment.
Barry Hesketh
97 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:14:39
Conor @93
Unfortunately for me, by the time I realised that the main body of the post should have been italicised to let the reader know that that part of my post were the words of Guillem Balague I had missed the time frame to edit it properly.

My own words are the first and final paragraphs of the post.

Sorry for the confusion and I take on board that I will have to meet a higher journalistic standard before posting any more bits of information that I think might interest the TW family.

Bill Rodgers
98 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:17:21
It seems to me that whoever the manager is, whatever players we sign, however much money is spent, there is an underlying problem which means we put out teams which are uncommitted. That can only mean Finch Farm. Whoever gets this job must be given the chance and that means clearing out the backroom staff of dinosaurs and yesterday's heroes.

Everton must rebuild from scratch and that will take years. there are no short cuts. Alternatively, it would be apt if they give it to Big Dunc and then we can start from the absolute ground level in a year's time from the next league down.

Conor McCourt
99 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:30:28
Barry - Sorry mate from me, probably a bit short with you and a little OTT. Just that on ToffeeWeb previously we had the same sort of agenda driven misinformation(clearly you don't have an agenda) regarding Ancelotti's recent record before his arrival and then others in good faith would form opinions on those details.
Barry Hesketh
100 Posted 19/06/2021 at 11:33:19
No worries Conor, it can be a minefield to try and sort the wheat from the chaff, on here and elsewhere, but I hope we all want the same thing, a team we can be proud of, no matter who leads it and who is in the team.
Jerome Shields
101 Posted 19/06/2021 at 14:38:47
Usmanov for I guy who has no material interest he is starting to surface alot as party being involved at Everton.
Rick Tarleton
102 Posted 19/06/2021 at 14:40:11
This whole fiasco reminds me of Kendall 3. Huge names mentioned and we got back a man who'd done wonderfully the first time, indifferently a second time and who struggled the third time. However, none of our recent managers have ever been better than indifferent, so Big Sam cannot return, can he?
Tony Abrahams
103 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:14:01
Seriously Conor, you accused me of being brainless the other day, and you couldn't follow what Barry posted! We are all guilty of it, (99% of us at least) and it's why we probably post in the first place, but it's all about narratives, and if Benitez got promoted because he was managing the richest club in the championship, then he surely deserves credit when you look at his net spend, whilst in charge of the Geordies? If Newcastle had a vacancy for a new manager and you done a similar survey on a Newcastle website, then I reckon Benitez is the man that most Newcastle fans, would want in charge of their club.

I do think it's a very dangerous situation bringing a manager into Everton who the fans don't want though, but if I'd put £500 million, into Everton, I'd also have similar views to what Usmanov, is supposedly saying, because it's been obvious to me for many years, that Everton need a proper shake-up.

26 years without a trophy, definitely means the Everton way, has failed beyond expectation, and we are definitely a club in need of a thorough change.

Kieran Kinsella
104 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:21:45

That's a very accurate though frightening comparison

Stan Schofield
105 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:24:07
I think people need to calm down and drop their demands for information on the managerial situation. It makes no substantial difference whether supporters are kept informed or not kept informed.

Also, protests about individual candidates are ridiculous and childish. The only thing that matters is how the next manager gets us to perform on the pitch, and nobody knows how any potential candidate will perform if appointed.

Keep calm, carry on, and wait patiently.

Kunal Desai
106 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:30:54
This club still has the mentality of those on board from the 80s. Football clubs are cooperate business do we do things in a corporate manner? Not a chance. We've tried quick fix solutions going back 5 years ago, and instead of putting in the hard graft and sweat in actually designing a plan and strategy all you have is people who simply haven't a clue hence we are now looking for a 6th manager in eight seasons.

When you look at the likes of Aston Villa and Leeds, both relegated and now look stronger, maybe the realisation for some will only be just that and clear the decks aonce and for all with an intent to starting building with a purpose.

Danny O’Neill
107 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:33:33
Tony, a very good friend of mine who is a Newcastle season ticket holder told me when this rumour first surfaced, that I should "watch this space" as Benitez would end up back at Newcastle.

Personally, I think wishful thinking on his part, because as you say, they would take him back tomorrow overwhelmingly.

We do need a shake up. We've been cosy Everton living within our nostalgia and old-boys set up for too long without success and I'm as guilty as anyone.

Time to break the shackles and let whoever the decision maker is do his thing, regardless of what we think (within reason). That may be unpopular in the short term but we need to look forward. Remember the nostalgic past but not live in it.

I always remember an interesting phrase the Chelsea fans used to coin towards Liverpool when they were having their spat in the height of Mourinho's first reign. "You've got no history" was the taunt at the Kings Road crew. The response was "making history, not living in it".

We need to stop it. The nostalgia is for us supporters, not those running, managing, coaching and playing for the club. They should be looking forward.

Jay Wood

108 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:35:34
Lyndon, as the editorial had your name against the printed words and used your own chosen headline I quite reasonably believed you were presenting a personal opinion.

My very first words to you in my two posts in this thread were to praise you on ‘a nicely crafted editorial', but adding it was not an article that resonates with me before explaining why not.

You have now responded to me with two retrospective revisions of one block of your article that I challenged. First claiming the use of a conditional ‘if' (which simply isn't the case) to distance yourself from the conclusions you wrote. You do similar in your second claim saying that you were writing about the fans ‘perception of reality', not your own. Only, in your original text you don't qualify that phrase in the manner of the retrospective revision you now offer. To my eye it continues to read as you offering your personal opinion and perception rather than that of the broader Everton church that you now claim. All by-the-by as far as I'm concerned.

I consider that in your latest post to me you are being more explicit in ‘owning' your own words than you seemed prepared to be in the original article.

But again Lyndon, to my eye what it amounts to is the same speculation on the inner workings of the club based on personal perception rather than any concrete information.

On the one hand you are saying ‘things may not be as chaotic as they appear', but on the other you say ‘in the absence of anything concrete, [there is] ‘no smoke without fire.' Talk about ‘lose-lose' for the club.

What plausible statement that you and others wish to hear to appease your anxiety can the club offer to satisfy those two diametrically opposed positions?

‘There is no truth in the rumours that the board is at loggerheads and conflicted on who should be our next manager', or ‘We are fighting like feral cats in a sack because nobody is willing to back down on their preferred option.'

In the absence of such declarations you and others speculate – without evidence – that there is serious discordance within the club. I'm not aware of any similar declarations on their own manager searches at Spurs, Palace and WBA. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if on their respective fans forums their supporters are expressing similar sentiments about their club, board and owner as Evertonians are based on the same mistaken ‘perceptions of reality' absent of concrete evidence. Yet some Blues seemingly wish to propagate the belief that this is uniquely ‘Everton that'. I'd wager it's not.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with the media silence by the club at this time. I have no problem with the time being taken in selecting the next manager. I pay little or no heed to the ‘noise' surrounding the new manager search.

When Carlo went I commented that whoever the new manager is it will inform us who holds the greatest sway in the decision making, stating my preference that whilst Moshiri is the ultimate power that signs it off, the search should primarily be driven by Brands. I have absolutely zero idea if this is or isn't the case.

Nothing I have read or heard on the pursuit of a new manager comes directly from source, the club. In the absence of any validated information, I won't pretend to ‘know' what each ‘player' in the game is thinking and saying as some are inclined to do. I repeat again:

The 'meedjah'. Online bookies. Fans.
Nobody. Knows. Nuffink.

Robert Tressell
109 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:45:32
Kunal # 106. You're spot on. The club strategy seems to be waiting its turn for a good manager to turn up and sort everything out. If you sack enough and hire enough you'll get lucky sooner or later. While we do this, well run clubs with a proper strategy seem to get all the luck.
Barry Rathbone
110 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:48:35
Stan 105

Agreed, these are sensitive multi million pound decisions tacitly involving supporters whose biggest decision of the week involves medium or large fries serves no purpose.

As a side note I sometimes struggle with the choice of Mcflurry

Bernard Dooley
111 Posted 19/06/2021 at 15:51:47
An outsider's view on our club???

Lurch for Rafa Benítez highlights chaos and dysfunction at top of Everton

Proceeding despite the backlash shows Farhad Moshiri wants to win at any cost, writes Paul Joyce, Northern Football Correspondent

The Times, Thursday 17 June 2021, 12:00pm,

On the eve of the finale to the Premier League season, Denise Barrett-Baxendale, the Everton chief executive, wrote a letter to the club's supporters.

She wrote glowingly about the “clear progress” under Carlo Ancelotti and how the Italian manager was the “perfect fit” given he had “embraced the club's values” and “connected” with supporters. How quickly things can become outdated.

Yet the correspondence was also a vehicle for Barrett-Baxendale to round on the European Super League (ESL) debacle. She had just been invited to join Tracey Crouch's advisory panel, which will provide expert advice to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport's fan-led review of football governance, and had a message for the club's fans. “Rest assured, the voice of Evertonians will be heard” she added. “YOUR voice will be heard.”

Those sentences leap off the page, making for particularly interesting reading given the toxic outcry that has erupted among supporters after talks with Rafael Benítez, the former Liverpool manager, about filling the void left by Ancelotti, who has returned to Real Madrid.

Promising Everton fans they will shape how English football moves forward feels ambitious. Ensuring their voices are heard within their own club should, on the surface, be infinitely easier to sort out.

The undertone of the letter was a thinly veiled, understandable dig at Liverpool, co-conspirators in the ESL breakaway fiasco that collapsed within 48 hours of its launch in April.

Liverpool have failed to ask their fans on important issues and have been criticised for it but, by the same token, when the supporters have spoken out emphatically, the club's response has been quick.

We know what Fenway Sports Group, their owners, would be doing today in the face of mounting pressure over a managerial target. They would be beginning the retreat and drafting an apology as with the ESL, the furloughing of staff, ticket prices, trademarks. The list is long.

What the Everton owner, Farhad Moshiri, and his influential business associates will do is far less certain. The 66-year-old has form for changing his mind. David Moyes and Ralf Rangnick, for example, fully expected to be installed as manager before Ancelotti came in in December 2019. The present situation reflects the dysfunctional, chaotic club Everton have become.

When people lament this “is not Everton” then that is not strictly true. Yes, it is not how Everton were under the present chairman Bill Kenwright between 1999 and 2016, seasons which included ten top eight finishes, five European campaigns and offered stability, but then that was not enough.

Supporters perceived him to be holding back the club because he did not have deep enough pockets and, in one instance, they flew an aircraft over Goodison Park, trailing the banner: “Kenwright and Co — Time to go”.

So he sold to a billionaire and now Everton play by the billionaire rules of Moshiri and Alisher Usmanov, whose MegaFon company is behind many of the club's new sponsorship deals.

The key now is whether they listen to the fans or their friends at, say, Chelsea, who might have given Benítez a strong reference after he took over as interim manager in November 2012, guiding the club to a fourth-place finish and helping them to win the Europa League.

There was a backlash from Chelsea fans against the Spaniard then too, although the depth of feeling on the blue half of Merseyside is stronger given Benítez once described them as a “small club” after their tactics in a Merseyside derby in 2007.

Benítez has previously sought to explain himself, saying he made an error when joining Jamie Carragher on Sky's Monday Night Football in December 2019. “I made a mistake when I said it was a small club” he said.

“What I wanted to say was they are a small team because in this game I remember they had one chance. Liverpool fans, they were happy and the Evertonians were upset. But I didn't want to say they were a small club, I wanted to say they were a small team.

“Some Evertonians, they come to me and say about what I did for the city, we have the charity [that raises funds for other charities in the city], and all these things, so I have a very good connection with the city, not just the Liverpool fans.”

Right now, there is only a damaging mess. “I have talked to some people in the Everton-Liverpool area” Andy Gray, the former Everton striker, said on BeIN Sports. “People are saying if that happens they are not going back [to Goodison]. Think again, Farhad. Please. Very quickly.”

Either the supporters remain outraged by what they see as a divisive idea or a part of the Everton hierarchy is pushed into doing something it does not want to do. And what then?

It is hard not to have sympathy for Moshiri. Even though it would have crossed his mind to sack Ancelotti on the final day when Everton's bid for Europe ended in a 5-0 defeat at Manchester City, and the club slipped to 10th in the table, he was prepared to stand by the Italian.

More than that he was ready to back him in the transfer market again this summer rather than search for his replacement.

Where the sympathy ends is that the lack of choice to take over from “Carlo Fantastico” is in part due to the chopping and changing during his five years of ownership at the club.

One theory was that the rush to oppose Benítez would kill the deal and see Roberto Martínez, the Belgium manager, come back into contention. He has been discussed by the board about returning to Goodison Park.

Yet Martínez was run out of town in May 2016, with players and supporters losing faith in him, despite the fact that Everton reached two domestic cup semi-finals. Romelu Lukaku missed a penalty against Manchester United in a 2-1 FA Cup loss sealed by Anthony Martial's stoppage-time winner.

The sacking of Martínez has sparked an unprecedented period of instability. There have been seven managerial switches taking into account interim appointments — Martinez, Ronald Koeman, David Unsworth, Sam Allardyce, Marco Silva, Duncan Ferguson, Ancelotti — and about 20 members of the backroom staff coming and going as a consequence.

Moshiri has had two directors of football [Steve Walsh and Marcel Brands], two chief executives [Robert Elstone and Barrett-Baxendale], while two board members have left [Keith Harris and Jon Woods]. That totals 33 changes in senior positions.

On top of that is player trading — about 80 transfers in and out with almost half of the incoming deals since the summer of 2016 having already moved on. Now we are up to about 110 changes in senior personnel.

Bringing order to the chaos may appeal to Benítez and Nuno Espírito Santo, who are both out of work. Martinez may also perversely fancy that task if he decides he wants to return to club football after the Euros.

But it is little wonder that Moyes, even overlooking how he was strung along in the past, was not responsive to the overtures he received at the start of the month and instead signed the new contract on offer from West Ham United.

Graham Potter has been mooted by some supporters as the appointment they would like (plenty of others do not want him). But what exactly is it about Everton that would appeal to him? Potter is ambitious but known to value the environment in which he works at Brighton & Hove Albion. One that allows him to try to build but possibly lose five matches in a row without the owner Tony Bloom's trigger finger twitching or a chorus of disapproval raining down from the stands.

For all the rancour one aspect remains. Everton and Benítez, a good man, both deserve better.

Kevin Molloy
112 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:01:44
I can't stand Paul Joyce. Really, here is a chap who has moved in the last 12 months to loathing Everton, even though he is the journalist assigned to cover them. So many digs in this article. 'Carlo Fantastico', you said you'd consult, now look at you. I

t's clear he doesn't want Everton to appoint Benitez, he probably doesn't want his memories of Istanbul sullied. Lamenting how Moyes was treated, is he having a laugh? The same Moyes who publicly catastrophised on the fact he had been ushered into an audience with SAF wearing the wrong trousers. David, yes, how awful it must have been for you.

I hope we appoint Benitez, he's the best man for the job. I just want to see the team win. I couldn't care less about the Liverpool connection. We took Rooney back, we can get over this.

Conor McCourt
114 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:22:58
Personally I think someone who wants Benitez must be stuck in the last decade as his record has been poor since the neighbours given the resources at his disposal. We just finished tenth with a manager who hadn't got the best out of the resources available to him for a few years previous. If people have now come to see that Ancelotti was yesterday's man I would suggest Benitez is probably last weeks.

Tony Newcastle would be desperate to have him back (largely because he took on Ashley, Bruce is doing a similar job) I think that says it all as to the calibre of club that should want him. Ask Liverpool fans, Chelsea fans do they want him and if we have any top six aspirations then we also should be naysayers regardless of his connections and history.

Ps Tony don't be so delicate as that was a tongue in cheek post just saying that I often agree with Dave as opposed to you.

Kevin Molloy
115 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:26:20

I don't think his track record recently is bad at all. I was aghast when he moved to Newcastle as I thought he'd do a good job there, which he did. Remember the way they came back against us to win from two-nil down? Fortunately Ashley didn't give him any money, so the damage he was able to do was limited.

And then he went to China for a 㾸M salary, fair enough.

Danny O’Neill
116 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:26:22
Barry, who is this McFlurry candidate you now enter into the equation? Any good?
Barry Rathbone
117 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:31:11
Dan 116

Good? In the current vernacular - he's sweet

John Davies
118 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:36:40
At the moment, there are not many free managers to choose from, that's obvious. People keep on naming managers who are staying where they are, Ten Hag being the latest. The other ones are like Conte who will spend billions, with no guarantees.

Duncan Ferguson now needs to leave Everton and to manage another team to prove that he has got what is needed.Just like Royle and Kendall did, unlike Harvey, and Unsworth who didn't and who both failed.

We can even employ someone in the short-term; however, we shouldn't get tied down by history. Benitez is the safer bet.

Conor McCourt
119 Posted 19/06/2021 at 16:45:51
Kevin I have been told all week that Martinez was a failure at Wigan because the year they won the FA Cup they were relegated. He had kept them up every season bar that one with the worst wages in the division and hadn't the budget Bruce was afforded.

Benitez took over Newcastle and got them relegated despite getting plenty of time to turn them around. (10 games one point off safety and were only in a precarious position because they had the dreadful McLaren poorly managing a decent squad). He didn't exactly overachieve at Newcastle as was not much different to Pardew and Bruce with similar budgets. I have already shown his record at Inter,Napoli, Chelsea and in China.

If we are to be successful we need a manager who can overachieve, who can make the sum of the parts better. Benitez won't do this.

Barry Rathbone
120 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:09:42
Conor 119

The fact Whelan closed the cheque book and sold Wigans best for a controlled descent from the Prem cuts no ice with the anti Martinez faction. Neither does twatting us and the fabled Moyes defence en route to winning the FA cup against moneybags City. Yet apparently the overrun Moyes defence of that qtr final was the reason for Martinez unmatched first season

They just hate him facts don't matter - weird as

Steve Carse
121 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:37:43
After so many seasons watching dire, negative football and witnessing the gap between Everton and the top few sides in the PL continue to grow, all I've been looking forward to after the torture of Ancelotti's spell at the helm is a new manager who plays on the front foot and plays football that will keep me awake for 90 minutes.

The list on the table contains either huge risks or individuals who are anathema to sizeable numbers of the core support.

Given all this, why is there so little consideration of a candidate who would not come with a compensation claim for his acquisition, who presents no risk from the perspective of further decline, who already has PL experience, who achieved first year success in winning qualification to the CL, and whose record before being relieved of his duties last season included goals scored at over 2 per game.

Add in his stature within the English game, his age, and his ambition, then he looks an attractive option. As it is, if you believe what you read and hear, it looks like he's the only candidate not even interviewed!

Robert Tressell
122 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:47:15
I'm being thick Steve #121. Who are you talking about?
David Pearl
123 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:53:32

Maybe Pep has a clause in his contract saying he can leave for free if the mighty blues come in for him

Conor McCourt
124 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:55:28
Lampard..not for me. When so many players improve without him. Done nothing to warrant an interview
Lyndon Lloyd
125 Posted 19/06/2021 at 17:57:52
Jay (108), I haven't attempted to qualify anything, rather I've been trying to clarify what I wrote. The ‘perception' angle is both my opinion and one I see reflected here, on social media, and in those banners at Goodison.

You're perfectly entitled to disagree with the sentiments expressed. I'm just writing from a position of frustration and disillusionment. If it turns out that was misplaced, I'll freely admit it but I'm deeply skeptical at the moment.

Tony Abrahams
126 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:24:54
If I was being delicate I'd have said thank god for that Conor, but that's the beauty of ToffeeWeb mate, all different views, but one day I'm praying we all unite!!
Jay Wood

127 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:38:09
So Lyndon, now you acknowledge 'the ‘perception' angle is both [your] opinion and one [you] see reflected here, on social media, and in those banners at Goodison', and that '[you're] just writing from a position of frustration and disillusionment' it appears it was fair and reasonable of me to believe as I do that you WERE expressing your personal opinion and not solely that of the collective.

I was not and am not trying to be contentious or provocative Lyndon. Nor do I presume to speak for others or attempting to impose my (possibly minority) view on others on the subjects you touched on.

I speak for myself, expressing my personal views only. Not fessed either way if fellow TWers view them negatively or positively.

Tony Abrahams
128 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:50:34
Danny@107, the rumours I've heard make me think that Newcastle could eventually be the next Manchester City, but because Benitez is prepared to go to Everton, I'm not sure how much truth are in those rumours, although it will be very worrying once the Saudi's get hold of Newcastle, because they will be desperate to compete with their fellow Arabian's in Manchester?
Lev Vellene
129 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:58:26
Jay, I've only skimmed through these replies, I'm sorry. But I got what Lyndon meant to say the first time. Perception based on non-communication from the club (over all these years), rather than the Club hardly ever squashing silly rumours invented by the media, makes the fans liable to believe in and react to any rumour.

Are you a lawyer, by trade? :D

Steve Carse
130 Posted 19/06/2021 at 19:58:55
Conor (124), I could name Mount and James as two youngsters he was bold enough to give playing time to - and turned into internationals.
Paul Ferry
131 Posted 19/06/2021 at 20:10:00
What Lyndon is saying is absolutely crystal clear to me and the point about perceptions is well made and hardly that difficult to follow.

On the other hand, Jay Wood's unnecessarily long and repetitive comments reach pedantry at times and perhaps like me others wonder why someone would go to these lengths (here and elsewhere - many 'elsewheres') to try to come out on top.

Another classic example of 'Woody' thread-destroying one-upmanship. It's so boring.

Nicholas Ryan
132 Posted 20/06/2021 at 02:40:23
Graham Potter.
Jamal Paktongko
133 Posted 20/06/2021 at 06:17:46
I say Rafa Benitez is the best appointment

He's been there

He knows what it takes to win

And we have been appointing all the politically correct managers thus far and it has given us jack squat

Yes, that included Carlo as well.

We need to appoint someone from outside the box someone that has seen us from our weakness

Please let it be the Old Spanish Waiter

Danny O’Neill
135 Posted 20/06/2021 at 07:03:37
Tony @128, it's possible with Newcastle and that's what my mate was suggesting;; Benitez back to Newcastle if the takeover happens as he's popular and a big name. Who knows with takeovers? As we are currently experiencing, many go east and west as apposed to north, but yes, the Arabian owners seem to have no bounds. I say currently, we're heading north once we sort this shit show out. Ever(ton) the optimist!!

I don't like the "a source told me stuff" and I don't have a source, just my son who follows all kinds of what he believes are reliable media sources. Apparently a reputable Spanish journalist, and friend of Benitez, supports the claim that Usmanov and by default Moshiri could be behind the Benitez push. Allegedly our owner and his backer are willing to spend, but they want someone who they believe knows what he's doing with their money. In fairness, Ancelotti did spend well last season in my opinion, we just need to repeat that a couple more times before the squad is fixed from the scattergun approach that went before it.

That could explain why they're looking for something similar in terms of past success and a big name in the game. Lessons learned and fingers burned in the past? Or a journalist friend of Benitez plugging his mate for the job? Who knows.

As always, taken with a pinch of salt from me and I don't know where that leaves Brands if that theory is true. But then he's been elevated to a more prominent board position if I recall?? Could this be the end of Kenwright? All speculation and conspiracy theorist guess work.

If they want to go down that route, is Mancini staying with Italy after the World Cup?

Robert Tressell
136 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:09:41
If the Ncl takeover happens and they have bags of money to spend they'll hire Conte. They won't hire Benitez.

Connor: I don't think Benitez will over-achieve either. I think he would get us back to our recent high of about 8th (achieved by Koeman and Silva). With a bit of luck we might sneak 7th or even 6th. This is what Ancelotti had us on track for with a decent summer.

Benitez is a very similar manager to Ancelotti but with a worse CV.

However, in fairness, if we want a manager to over-achieve then the stand out candidate would be Dyche. He's done exactly that for a good few years now. But he's not in the frame and there are probably good reasons for that.

Benitez has been a winner, but that doesn't mean he could suddenly transform Everton.

Expecting Benitez to turn up and start winning things is like going out on the pull wearing your rich, handsome friend's hand-me-downs and expecting to go home with a stunner.

Danny O’Neill
137 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:15:10
He (my mate) Robert, looks through sentimental glasses with regards to Benitez and despises Bruce. As I said earlier, it's probably his wish rather than what could or will happen.

I wouldn't want to go down the Dyche route and I don't think the owners will.

But then I'm not making the decisions and I've been pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised on many occasions when it comes to Everton!!

Derek Thomas
138 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:33:10
If past performance (remember the financial disclaimers as regards to that!) was a guide then Kendall Mk II & III would have worked...but its not that simple.
You're not as good as your Last win, you're only as good as your Next win.

ALL managerial appointments are a bit of a gamble, some may prove divisive to start, some may be come divisive. But Benitez will have divisiveness thrust upon him all of his term.

So why take on board any extra baggage.

Danny O’Neill
139 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:42:46
I don't think it's divisive Derek, and I don't say that to counter you, I say it with concern. The "yays" to the right seem to be in the vast minority. The "neighs" to the left in the vast majority.

It's actually uniting the fanbase, but not in a good way as it is dividing the fanbase from the ownership.

Turbulent times ahead if this indeed goes ahead.

Tony Abrahams
140 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:43:14
Robert@136, Benitez and Ancelotti come across as polar opposites imo mate. I'm sure you was alluding to the way they coach. But one doesn't seem to care who he upsets, whilst the other possibly couldn't work under those circumstances, and that's why he probably chose to seek out Real Madrid?

Danny, fair enough about the sources and rumour bollocks mate, but I was told everything that Spanish journalist put on Twitter, and can only assume it's come from the same person. The way it's worded talks about a wind of change, but I don't want to speculate, even if I'm praying that you know who's, nine lives, are nearly up🤞

Robert Tressell
141 Posted 20/06/2021 at 08:53:42
Tony, you're right. I was alluding to tactics / formations etc. Both seem to vary between 532, 442 and everything in between. In theory that means a set up that suits the players but the constant changing of formations and personnel hurt the likes of Holgate and Iwobi last season. They will both be expansive with real quality at their disposal but often ultra defensive without that quality.

Lots of similarities but Ancelotti is far more decorated than Benitez.

Tony Abrahams
142 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:00:18
If Usmanov is involved, and has genuinely been the man to utter the words posted by the journalist, then I expect Benitez to get the job. It's obvious that Moshiri, never really had a plan, and came into Everton, with “stars in his eyes” and it's very rare for a man without a plan to succeed.

I'm sure Ancelloti was asked do you want the job? And said yes, but hopefully now Everton have been very thorough, and have spoken to each candidate a few times, and maybe even more to the men, that they might wish to employ?

I'd guess Benitez knew a lot more about Everton, than he maybe should have, especially because he's close to a few scousers, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's already told Usmanov and Moshiri, where they have been going wrong, but that's just pure speculation, even if Rafa does comes across as this type of man.

Danny O’Neill
143 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:15:29
Agree Tony, if we are to believe this, then this could be a moment of big change. Well, that's what I'm hoping. I'm using the hope word again, but that's all I can do!

I meant Euros, not World Cup by the way! I guess everyone knew what I meant.

Anthony Murphy
144 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:20:10
I think one consideration could be - who can get the best out of the players we currently have. We aren't going to see a complete overhaul, and more likely to bring in maybe 2-3 signings this summer without spending a huge amount, so it could be that Benitez is the front runner for this reason. I also think as already mentioned that he's probably a very impressive candidate in an interview scenario - his CV and experience blows other candidates mentioned out the water. I'm not advocating for him, but just thinking logically as to why. My hunch is that we'll end up with Nuno.
Colin Glassar
145 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:25:35
Spurs are now after Nuno. I don't really care anymore who are next manager is going to be as none of my candidates will be even considered eg Luis Enrique, Roberto Mancini, Lucien Favre or, as a last resort, Roberto Martinez.

If it's between Nuno and Rafa I'd have to go with the latter. Nuno seems to me to be the nice, arms around the shoulder, company man. Rafa is more of a ruthless operator who won't accept the lack of effort or tactical awareness our shower show on a regular basis.

Dave Lynch
146 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:37:22
The one thing a manager cannot operate under is a dysfunctional club.

All reports/indications and rumours suggest the board is split and in house disagreement is rife.

It won't matter who is appointed, they will need the full backing of the whole club from tea lady to director.

Having had a lot of time to mull it over I'm convinced a happy medium will not be reached, Bill is known to be a dummy spitter and will want his own way, let's face it, no-one knows Everton like him (sarcasm intended) he sees himself as the custodian of the club and has the ego to match.

Whoever is appointed will be in for a rocky ride, I'm genuinely terrified that a relegation battle awaits, we now have a history of sacking managers and the new incumbent will need to hit the ground running.

Bottom half by Christmas and the knives will be out for whoever it is, I've a feeling the teary one will get his way and another journeyman loser is on his way.

Derek Knox
147 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:40:17
Firstly, can I say a great article by Lyndon, and an equally brilliant and appropriate Headline too. I didn't even see the Post as it was a scroll down on the main TW Page at first, but glad I did, and having read most of the responses. It would appear that we are pretty well united in ' Not wanting Benitez ' for a start, and also most of us are in bewilderment as to what is actually going on!

Who has the say of who gets the position? You would be forgiven for assuming as both DoF, Marcel Brands, and Board Member, and also being the only one who has any real Football knowledge, that the decision should be down to him. Now we are hearing that Moshiri (okay he is major shareholder) but NOT an actual Board Member, and knows less than Manuel from Fawlty Towers about Football, is pulling the strings as to who the next incumbent should be.

This incredibly has been further fuelled by mentions of Usmanov (The Secret Billionaire) throwing his few roubles worth into the selection process, because allegedly he likes Benitez and thinks he would be a good fit for Everton. What the hell does Usmanov know about Everton apart from it seemed like an Investment Opportunity?

I, like everyone else, have been left so infuriated and let down on two accounts, the football served up last season, but hoping that would improve with a good Window and a further clear-out, and more importantly the man we all thought could get us there jumping ship and leaving us to flounder, on the edge of a maelstrom.

Danny O’Neill
148 Posted 20/06/2021 at 09:43:00
I'm of the same mindset Colin. Okay, I think I was a bit left of field on the ones I fancied and they are probably unrealistic if I listen to the rumours, as they're not the type being considered by the club.

The Mancini shout does interest me If he's available after the Euros. Again, if listening to where we think the owners thought process is, then he could fit the bill for them as well.

Dave Williams
149 Posted 20/06/2021 at 10:35:36
Mancini would be a no brainer for me. He would ruffle a few feathers for sure but has he been approached- the rumour mill has been very quiet concerning him.
That said I suspect everything we have been reading is no more than rumour. There are only four board members so it's way too easy for any leaks to be attributed. Any leak will have been deliberate to gauge reaction( if so that's been pretty successful hasn't it).
Whoever it is the appointment has to be made this week to give us a chance in the transfer window and I just hope the rumours of DCL to Real are just that as we need to keep the half dozen decent players we have.
Jack Convery
150 Posted 20/06/2021 at 12:42:49
Given the reports of £250m debt, it appears to me that the new manager will have to sell before we buy and buy cheap at that. Next season looks like its already going to be a struggle just to keep our heads above water.

I wonder who he / they will be.

Digne could go as we have cover in Godfrey and Nkounkou. Why City have never come in for him baffles me.

Richarlson may come back from Brazil and demand to go.

James - if Carlo calls he will go - no fee I'm guessing.

Allan - may have had enough already and who would blame him.

Pickford - having a good Euros and looking assured. Played well for us in latter part of season. If a really good offer comes in I can see us saying yes.

DCL - if he gets a run in the England team and grabs a few goals, the offers may come in - would we sell ? we usually do !!

Bernard - minimum fee unless new manager decides to keep him.

Holgate - will he get a new start or let go. Will he be used as a full back so we can bring in some else in another position. Coleman to back him up.

Whatever happens I reckon we need a full Goodsion, backing the manager and players to get through next season.

Barry Hesketh
151 Posted 20/06/2021 at 13:34:51
Jack @150,

Are you referring to the report in the current bun which says Everton has recorded losses of 𧶨m in the last two years, and says that Moshiri didn't stand in the way of Ancelotti leaving because he wants to cut the wage bill?

If that was true, why didn't they just appoint Ferguson as manager? He'd seem to be the cheapest option and I'm pretty certain the favourites for the job, Nuno or Benitez, would want a fairly hefty salary.

High finance isn't my speciality but, given that Usmanov is in the background (albeit unofficially), perhaps the current financial situation isn't as bad as it may seem. Obviously, it isn't what we'd all like, but Covid has played havoc with every club's financial situation.

Players may leave in the summer but, if they're our most effective players, they'd have to be replaced and that would possibly be more expensive than keeping them.

Dave Williams
152 Posted 21/06/2021 at 10:18:08
From what I've read we're not in financial difficulty but it's FFP we have to watch. Carlo going is a blessing in disguise as it reduces the wage bill considerably as whoever comes in won't be trousering £10m a year or whatever ridiculous salary he was on. It also gets us out of having to pay a load again in compo as I had doubts as to whether he would survive here next season as he seemed at a complete loss as to what to do.
Jamie Sweet
153 Posted 22/06/2021 at 02:52:35
I'm going to give the job to Lucien Favre, purely because I like the sound of his style on Wikipedia.

"Favre's teams play a dynamic, quick and attacking-minded football where ball possession and change of tempo alternate. This attractive style of play has brought results in every club he has managed. Furthermore, Favre is very skillful tactically, leaving his opponents struggling to penetrate his well-organized sides".

Benitez's Wikipedia page on the other hand, says he is a firm believer in zonal marking at set-pieces. Need I say more?

Danny O’Neill
155 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:17:42
His name just popped up on the other thread Jamie. Seems to have a knack of rebuilding fairly big clubs who have fallen from grace or experiencing a difficult period. And, being German, brings a couple of other things. German coaches are up there amongst the best right now. It's a result of their built from the bottom up football system.

I hope, but I'm not hopeful as I don't think that's where Everton are looking, but please surprise me and prove me wrong.

Bill Fairfield
156 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:18:34
Recent managerial appointments have been made on the basis we keep it nice and cosy with Bill's boys on the backroom staff. Mr Moshiri needs to step up and make the changes required to move on.
Colin Glassar
157 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:22:55
He's Swiss, Danny.
Danny O’Neill
158 Posted 22/06/2021 at 09:38:08
You could argue same thing Colin, although that's probably controversial!!

Good call out though. I just made an assumption through his German football connections. Although if I'd have looked closely at his name and taken time to look into it, he's of French-Swiss origin.

Derek Knox
159 Posted 22/06/2021 at 10:13:40
Bill @ 156, Moshiri is the major shareholder I agree but is not an active member on the Board. He put Boys Pen Bill there as Chairman and Ryantseev as his voice-piece.

I say this, what is the point of having a Board, if strings are being pulled from well outside of that conclave? Especially if reports are to be believed (no smoke without fire) that Usmanov is dictating who the next manager should be!

What part, if any, does the footballing man (the only one on the Board, by the way) Brands play in all this? Or is he like the others, just figureheads with no real sway or say? Or are his football-related decisions going to be over-ruled each time because the oligarchs say so?

Thomas Richards
160 Posted 22/06/2021 at 11:58:04

Brush up on your geography young man.
If your old job ever comes calling I hope your not doing the OS 😁

Colin Glassar
161 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:06:29
Derek, I've been told (by someone ITK) that Dame Edna Barrett-Baxdale (whatever her name is) is being considered for the job.

Bill has finally convinced his clueless moneyman that Dame Edna and Big Dunc will keep things ticking over nicely until David Darling is free from his contract at WHU and back in the luvvie duvvie Goodison family.

Danny O’Neill
162 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:46:18
A reflection of rising too far up the ranks Thomas.

I had good people arranging where I needed to be, when I needed to be there and getting me there!!!

Rangnick, Terzic, Ten Hag and now Colin planting the Favre seed. My thinking is probably polar opposite of the club's. Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if Colin's last post at 161 is not far off the mark!

Derek Knox
163 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:52:24
Colin, (ITK ?) Oh possum, I presume his name was Professor Les Patterson! :-)
Dave Abrahams
164 Posted 22/06/2021 at 12:55:31
Derek (159), I think Ryantseev is Usmanov's eyes on all that is going on.
Thomas Richards
165 Posted 22/06/2021 at 14:13:18

Your not a Rupert?

Danny O’Neill
166 Posted 22/06/2021 at 14:32:38
Not a real one Thomas. Boy soldier at 16, worked my way through the ranks and left as a Major. I think technically I can use Major (Retired), but it all sounds and feels a bit Basil Fawlty!!
Tony Abrahams
167 Posted 22/06/2021 at 14:43:29
You obviously did very well Danny, and are probably qualified enough to go into finch farm, and make everyone realize that you always achieve more when everyone is behind each other and pulling in the same direction! Better still get on a flight to Sardinia, because Benitez, is like the Sam Allardyce appointment but on steroids and growth, which leaves me wondering how much money the owners are preparing, to give him to spend in the transfer window?
Thomas Richards
168 Posted 22/06/2021 at 15:20:02
I knew you weren't Danny 👍
Danny O’Neill
169 Posted 22/06/2021 at 15:28:40
Some days in recent weeks I've felt like driving to Finch Farm Tony!!

I too have likened this to the Allardyce appointment. But what you suggest goes back to the rumours we heard this week from different sources; they are prepared to spend, providing they get someone they feel they can trust with their money. Right now that seems to be Benitez but I'm clinging on to the emerging Favre link.

Michael McLoughlin
170 Posted 22/06/2021 at 17:59:50
i just wonder if there is something else going on in the background with the appointment of the Everton Manager. Instead of going down the regular established manager line why not have another Everton first. I just wonder if the board and the DOF are attempting to be a little more creative in their thinking. I wonder if they are trying to put together a partnership which could produce the type of team we crave. A young creative coach to be assistant Manager and a leader who can inspire the team to go out and die for the club on the field.
Would it be beyond the pale to put together Say Duncan Ferguson and David Ancelotti. I have to admit thats the bare bones of my thought process but more of the more enlightened could come up with the new Brian Clough/ Peter Taylor success train
Peter Jansson
171 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:07:33
I have not read anything here, but I am afraid that Moshiri is not the owner we need at Everton. It seems like there is a disarray behind the scenes. Who is deciding on what and who is deciding to bring in what manager? Brand? Moshiri? Who is in charge of bringing in new players? Brands? Moshiri? The manager?

I have a feeling that Moshiri is deciding too much, and he does not have a clue about football.

We need to have a solid foundation to stand on. For example, what type of football we play. Do we aim to play offensive football, do we aim at running more than the opponents or what is the plan here?

I seriously have no clue on what we (Moshiri and co) is trying to achieve and I have no idea on what kind of football we are aiming to play.

Unfortunately I have lost my belief that Moshiri is the right man to bring Everton forward. The plan, whatever the plan he has, is just not good enough. I do not understand what plan we have at all.

Ok if I am wrong with that our plan is not good enough. I seriously do not get it. Can anyone please enlighten me on what we are trying to achieve?

Rafael Benitez? Seriously, what is he going to do for us??

Paul Smith
172 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:13:06
Peter Jansson the plan was to get a world class manager and world class stadium. One just walked out and the other hasn't been built yet. I will give you that we don't have the players but Moshiri didn't buy them. I don't think it's his fault.
Peter Jansson
173 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:17:44
Paul Smith? Whos fault is it then?

About the coach. Why not try to bring in Christophe Galtier? The guy that took Lille to the top in France this year, playing offensive football. That sounds like music to me. How is it even possible? He must be a genius.

Drew O’Neall
174 Posted 22/06/2021 at 23:18:57
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

Seriously people, can we gain a bit of perspective.. There is plenty of time to appoint a manager. We have a director of football model and Brands is trying to sign the players we have already targeted. Better coaching candidates will be available after the Euro's. The manager isn't needed until we get the players back. Why wouldn't Moshiri et al keep their powder dry until later?

Peter Jansson
175 Posted 23/06/2021 at 00:28:54
Drew O'Neall.. plenty of time? Haha. We have just wasted 5 years with Moshiri and have achieve absolutely nothing. Nice joke man :-) If we are going on at this speed we have to wait around 50 years for silverware if we are lucky... I am still laughing :-)
Tony Abrahams
176 Posted 23/06/2021 at 08:21:59
We are already twenty seven years in Peter, TWENTY SEVEN FUCKN YEARS, aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh, fuckin aaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh.
Danny O’Neill
177 Posted 23/06/2021 at 13:07:11
My son is 26 and hasn't seen Everton lift a trophy Tony. I was only 13 when I did and thought I'd waited a lifetime.

Technically he has but obviously doesn't remember as he was 5 months old. He also watched the semi final, which in our house is more remembered by my wife for my apparent bad parent behaviour. I was watching on TV in Cyprus and rocking him in one of those chair things you put babies in with my foot. When we scored the 4th I instinctively jumped up and my action flipped him into the air. Fortunately he landed on the couch, not the tiled floor.

I feel for his and my youngest brothers generation. Fortunately he's inherited my blind faith, belief and high expectations. Fortunately right?

Danny O’Neill
178 Posted 23/06/2021 at 13:20:11
Actually, I was 12. Just aged myself a year.

Apologies, thats an important correction at my age!

Tony Abrahams
179 Posted 23/06/2021 at 13:43:00
Danny, my two sons, my mates nephew and his son, used to travel everywhere together watching Everton, and must have over 80 years service between them, without seeing the once mighty Everton, win fuck all.

It's in the blood, it always was, because the minute they can travel, I know they will be at it again, and these fans are the real reason that Everton, has never been allowed to become a small club.

I think of Benitez, and wonder what he will feel if he brings Evertonians a trophy? He will already know that we are not a small club, and maybe he already admires our pragmatism, because whilst Liverpudlians sing walk on, it's the Evertonians who sing WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED, however painful it sometimes is.🙏

Raymond Fox
180 Posted 23/06/2021 at 14:27:50
Theres too much bitterness in our fan base!

Its no good just saying I don't want him and I don't want him because blah blah.
We've gone through a lot of managers that have proved elsewhere that they are decent managers, so who the hell is left?
Itsn't it obvious by now that if the players are not up to top 4 standard we are not going to finish up there whoever the manager is.

I wouldn't like to be in Moshiri's shoes he must be in spin, because unless he spends absolute fortunes more on real top players we are stuck in good but not good enough mode I fear.

Peter Jansson
181 Posted 24/06/2021 at 11:28:49
Raymond, I tried to explain what I think the problem is. The problem is not the manager. The problem is that we as a club do not have solid plan on what to do and there are too many people pulling the strings.

Who is in charge? Moshiri? Brands? The manager... or that Russian oligarch? It is just too much of a mess. Moshiri (or Usmanov?) seems to be calling the shots on what to do and that does not work. That is the real problem.

Stephen Davies
182 Posted 24/06/2021 at 12:02:20
Jamie #153.

We had a good chance of getting Favre years ago but we dithered... he said so himself. Just about to be named Palace manager, just settling up a work permit

Rob Dolby
183 Posted 24/06/2021 at 12:33:08
Tony 179. Your spot on.

Our army of travelling blues deserve so much better than what they have been served up. Ironically our best away form since we won the league and fans couldn't attend!.

That away support feel good factor would have spread to the players and management and who knows if Carlo would have walked?

As loyal as what those away fans are the appointment of Benitez won't go down well.

Tony Abrahams
184 Posted 24/06/2021 at 18:44:55
The away fans are usually the barometer of any fan base Rob, and my own view is that most of the traveling blue army, will be going through so many emotions right now, whilst waiting to see if Benitez is ever confirmed as our new manager.
Peter Dawson
185 Posted 26/06/2021 at 14:53:06
Let's Be Honest . The Old Lady Is Sinking . A JOKE . Sad But True. Unsworth. Big Dunc Who Would They Attract ?? . NIL SATIS. NISI OPTIMUM. ???????????????????????????

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