PSG enter the running for Gabriel

Honestly, with Branthwaite already looking like the real deal, and Lewis Gibson just as highly regarded, I'm wondering if we really do need to prioritize another centre-back right now. Keane and Mina have their issues, but it's not like they're week-in & week-out liabilities – both of them can put in a strong shift.

The centre-backs would look much better with a decent midfield in front of them. Concentrate all resources on a couple of midfield warriors who can score goals. That McKennie lad from Shalke fits the bill.

Swap him for Kenny and Bob's your uncle. Then we can splash out on Allan to run the show.

If PSG are interested then it's not worth getting into a price war. I think it's time we realised that paying over the odds for players is whats got us into this mess.

there are lots of players over the world and still some good deals as has been proven by some teams outside the top six. It's more important to create a great team than to have a bunch of over-priced players who can't string more than two passes together and don't have the heart for a fight.

Hopefully lessons have been learnt.
COYB

What's happened to "if they don't want to come and play for us, we don't want them"? As soon as the players we are after start stalling, then fuck them off and go for someone that will bite through walls for us.

I dunno if this makes sense to anyone, probably ramblings of a mental illness, not that difficult though to see the poison that's prevalent in our recruitment.

I am certain that one way to improve our squad is simply to say: "If you ain't chomping at the bit to play for this club, we didn't even want you anyways."

Bill, Jay, John – you all beat me to it. Great comments.

I have been saying since last summer that every other need we have is greater, and centre-back should be our absolute last priority. Watching that big blond kid Branthwaite do his work against Villa, I'm more convinced than ever.

Midfield, midfield, midfield.

Getting seriously concerned at the OTT reaction to Branthwaite's performance on Thursday.

I was one of the first to comment on how confident and composed he looked on the Live Forum. I was made up for him. What ever happens in his career. Nobody can take away that memory away from him.

But this is what we do... We build them up after a fleeting glimpse and, if they fail to reach the dizzy heights projected upon, they are dismissed as useless... Championship at best.

Let him and his family enjoy the other night. Let him gain a bit more confidence to develop as a player, but FFS, let's not burden him with the assumption that our centre-half issues are suddenly resolved.

Step back and let the boy breathe.

It's true that Mina and Keane are very decent defenders. But the trouble is that both are much better in a low block defense; which is pretty much what we've played since restart.

The trouble with a low block is that it leaves a big gap between your midfield and attack and can rely therefore on your strikers doing something quite magical or on midfielders who can pass or dibble excellently or on set pieces.

We have been woeful creatively since the restart; best exemplified by not managing a shot at home on target against the second-worst defense in the league until the last 10 minutes against Villa. A big part of that lack of control and creativity is having to play such a deep line.

If we were to buy Gabriel or another central defender with speed, then we could play a higher line and that may help the team as a whole play more cohesively and create more chances. It certainly gives us more options.

No doubt a central midfielder or two is the priority but if we could land Gabriel for £22M or so I think it would be money well spent. The fact we're competing with PSG and Napoli does not bode well but suggests this is a player with serious potential. If we could sell Michael Keane too while his stock is fairly high then that would be excellent business in my eyes and leave us with Holgate, Mina, Gabriel (or another pacy centre-back) and Branthwaite or Gibson.

Oh, Darren, fer cryin' out loud.

All we ever hear from you is how terrible we are to the young Everton players. Now the kid gets some compliments from the folks (including about five from you on the Forum) and its "OTT" and we're not letting him breathe.

You're like Statler and Waldorf on the Muppets. Enjoy the moment, for frick's sake. There's few enough to enjoy right now.

Yes care is required with Branthwaite, very much so. There are obvious areas where he is still learning and will be doing for several years.

But my word he moves and looks like the real thing. Easy does it.

I agree with Darren, the lads only played one and a half games, we don't know if he is the real deal yet. He was impressive against Villa but let the lad develop first before we get too excited.

Mike

Any compliments he got from me was all about that performance. I will not burden him with labels of being "the future", or the "real deal" on the strength of that. There's a big difference. You do see that difference, right ?

Most of the stick our youngsters take is a direct result of not being able to meet the daft arsed projections thrust upon them by poor judges.

Surely you learned that lesson after telling us how Anthony Robinson was destined or the stars, or that Yerry Mina is going to be a top top centre-back?

You do make me laugh Mike; Criticise a manager for being too negative after half a season and you are up in arms... "it's too soon to judge", but it's fine to project a youngster to stardom before he has had the chance to get his shirt sweaty.

Darren (6) - you're probably right that we're getting carried away with Branthwaite, especially in regards to shaping our current transfer business... <>I was just really impressed by how composed he looked, particularly after his debut against Wolves could hardly have gotten off to a more nightmarish start. He could have gone to pieces, but he didn't.

Also, people frequently complain about how many of our young players are still struggling to establish themselves in the first team at age 21, 22, 23, etc... and here's an 18-year-old who already looks like he can hold his own in the Premier League.

There will be growing pains for sure, but it's still exciting, especially if Gibson exhibits similar promise.

I don't think we need another centre-back, with Branthwaite we have a fourth option for what is two places. Use the resource elsewhere.

Branthwaite looks a good prospect but right now, that's all he is. A prospect. After his performance against Man City when he first got into the team, Tom Davies got rave reviews.

“United preparing bid”, “ On City's radar”, all the usual rubbish when a young player bursts onto the scene. Now, Tom takes a dog's abuse on the Live Forum. Yet another ‘Championship standard' flop from our Academy.

Darren is right. Don't heap too much expectation on his young shoulders. Let him, and us, enjoy his moment but let him breathe. I would love it if he were to become another Labone, Jagielka, Distin, whoever, but let's allow him to grow at a normal pace. He's barely played two hours football for us.

Truth is that we just don't have a clue where he'll go with his development. Luck and numerous other factors will apply. Same with our other youngsters.

By the way, I'd stick with Moise Kean. It's been very disappointing this season, obviously, but I still see flashes there. He's developing too.

Whether we get Gabriel or not, Ancelotti wants a centre half for the reasons Sam outlines. It has always looked like one of Gabriel, Salisu, Todibo or Zouma. All capable of playing left centre-back (although only the former 2 are left-footed), have pace and are tall. Holgate is 1.84m tall (not especially imposing for a centre half). I expect anyone we buy as his partner will be at least 1.87m tall.

Branthwaite's emergence is brilliant but we can take our time. Tricky though, because not sure what good it would do him to play U-23s. Championship too possibly. But he could hold his own in, say, Eredivisie or Belgium if he's up for a gap year.

Tony,

Kean will do nothing for Everton until he gets a starting berth for several games. Coming on for 10 minutes here, 5 minutes there, won't allow him to show what he can do. Calvert-Lewin has been struggling for form and also due to lack of service so giving him a rest would be doing him a favour.

Play Kean from the start so that he doesn't have to try to adapt to the speed of a game and give the lad some support; maybe then he'll show if he can live up to his price tag.

Ricky 4 and Darren 6. Well said, chaps. Ricky, I said something similar just yesterday, I believe this is the biggest problem.

We drag players here by wafting the dough but if they arent chomping at the bit to come they sign and see through the contract with a sense that it wasn't quite what they wanted.

What we are left with is a team with no fight or heart. Players who are desperate to play for us ONLY from now on please, I really like Hojberg but if the rumours are true and he wants spurs, let him go to spurs. It either makes sense for all parties or pull out.

Darren, what you said about many Evertonians view of the youngsters is just so true it hurts. He's played in two games for us, two games! He looked like a kid whose birthdays came all at once, let him enjoy the moment and let's watch his development with enthusiasm and encouragement. Don't build him up to be something we don't know (yet) that he might be, only to knock him down when he doesn't meet our ridiculous and unobtainable expectations. so Everton that!

I know I have quoted the Carlisle coach a few times on various thread as saying that he believes Braithwaite will be an England star one day but still perspective.

All that said and done, I want us to focus the cheddar on midfield: two centre-midfielders and a quality right-midfielders. If Kean is sold or part exchanged for new midfielders, then so be it, we will need a Morelos or Edouard too. Centre-back is no longer a priority spot.

I agree, Ray @17.

Branthwaite reminded me a little bit like Lescott the other night, but I'd already had to tell one of my workmates to go easy on him and also give him a chance, after he told me he was fucking shite after the Wolves game!

Some players develop over time and others are "natural" from the outset. The naturals can play in any team, at any level, at any time.

They generally have natural speed of body and speed of thought together with grace of movement. It looks like Branthwaite falls in this category and I am sure that the coaching management team will ensure that he does not get over exposed too soon.

I will trust their judgment on the matter and if, in their view, he should be a regular starter, he will be and if not, he won't.

If they are happy with him and Gibson (who returns from a very successful season-long loan at Fleetwood) then, with Keane, Mina and Holgate we will have five CBs on the books two of whom are naturally left-footed.

A nice problem to have and maybe a problem solved.

The lad played very well but can anyone name the Villa strikers who he was up against? My point is that it is one thing playing well against whoever those guys were, but entirely another matter going up against Salah, Firmino, Mane, Kane etc.

That said with him, Mason, Yerry and Keane plus Gibson we look ok for centre-backs. I'd have Branthwaite as cover with Gibson for the other three and focus on all areas of the midfield in the transfer window.

As others have said a decent midfield will take a lot of pressure away from the defence as indeed would getting a reliable goalie and as would only bring in a centre-back if we sold Mina or Keane.

Bill @12,

I think we are desperate for any flickers of light at the moment, but I'm all for softly softly with youngsters.

Davies is just one example of what over-expectation can lead to. He is (imo) at a crossroads. Next season will determine whether or not he can be a regular first choice for us, or just another player who drifts away because he didn't quite have it.

Ray is bang on the money. Tom's display against Man City as a teenager was, in hindsight, probably the worst thing that could have happened to him. A section of our fan base have never forgiven him for not being the player they expected him to become

That said. I enjoyed the young lad's performance the other night as much as anybody.

Branthwaite is a boy and, in centre-back terms, an infant. Yes, he was impressive with his cool head and composure. For an 18-year-old, it is extremely rare. If his football career is a day he is just 5 past midnight and his development could go tits up like hundreds of prospects before him.

He is at a great club to fulfill his potential but it will be ultimately down to him and his determination on all fronts whether he succeeds. Any measure of real success has to be quantified by consistency, and we are a long way off being able to measure that.

With regards to Gabriel, it's another one of those that we need to set a concrete deadline. If he wants to come he will have the option to decide in fair time. If he is still undecided we need to move on to prevent wasted time and energy. We need clarity in this window and must do business in a timely fashion. No more of the likes of chasing Zaha for two months, then buying Iwobi in the last 5 minutes of Deadline day. That is an insane approach.

I would be investigating selling Mina. I like him but he is unreliable and his body struggles with the rigours of the Premier League.

He would perform well in one of the European leagues, is still young and will command a decent fee. I would use the money to buy Zouma: Premer League proven, has a bit of pace, and would compliment Keane or Holgate. I think this improves our defensive unit.

Anyway all this centre-back talk is the cladding. The structural work needs doing first. Signing a couple of tenacious, aggressive and dynamic specialist central midfielders.

Darren@23, I always thought you made a great assessment of Davies a couple of years ago, when you said he might not become a top player, but he could still become a good team player, and a very effective partner for someone with more talent, or words to that effect.

Imagine being Tom: he's had two caretaker managers, plus Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and Ancellotti, all in the space of four seasons, and has also been one of the most/few honest players, every week.

The kid just hasn't been allowed to develop any kind of consistency and no wonder he goes from the sublime to the ridiculous so often. For a player whose best quality will always be about drive imo, I just hope he his allowed to reset, now he's reaching this very important phase in his Everton career.

Same with Kenny, I hope he comes back and takes hold of the Everton shirt, because it's kids with ability who care, combined with proper footballers, who are only going to help get Everton back on track.

Everton's problems begin and end with our midfield. In a summer in which finances will be stretched, this is where we need to direct all available funds.

The idea of spending £30m+ on another defender with a big reputation who undoubtedly sees the club as a stepping stone doesn't fill me with much excitement.

I miss the days when we'd spend £6m on someone from the Championship and invariably turn them into an international player.

Say what you like about Moyes and Kenwright, but they were masters of the transfer market. Tomas Soucek at West Ham already looks a better player than anyone we've signed bar Richarlison in the Moshiri years, and cost half the price of Iwobi or Sigurdsson.

Good post Alex, but it's not just the midfield, I think it's a bit more than this, although that's the most obvious one.

I thought Michael Keane was decent against Villa, I'd go as far as to say he's been our most consistent player since the re-start, but you can only play a certain way with Michael imo, unless you put someone with genuine pace alongside him.

Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison both play up front together, but I've yet to see any partnership develop, no one-two's. No movements that might compliment their partner, but this is a problem throughout the team at the minute, and something we need more than just midfielders to fix.

Everton boys are on fire for Latics.

40' Goal! Charlton Athletic 1, Wigan Athletic 2. Kieran Dowell (Wigan Athletic) right footed shot from the centre of the box to the top right corner. Assisted by Antonee Robinson.

Kieran hit three with his left foot midweek,

Darren, I didn't "project him for stardom" and I didn't see anybody else who did except for the one post that said "real deal."

Nor did I project Robinson "to the stars"... I said he'd grow into an excellent player, and I think he is doing so. He stepped right back into the Wigan lineup after the heart surgery and hasn't missed a beat. They've nicknamed him "Jedi". And I still believe selling a kid of his gifts for pocket change was foolish.

And no, I did not say Mina would be a "top top" centre-back – I predicted last summer that, after an up-and down first half of the season, he'd be one of the top young centre-backs in the Premier League. I got it backwards. He had a superb first half and then went off the boil a bit and was surpassed by Holgate. I still believe he'll be a mainstay for us over the next couple of years.

Mike,

I was not just referring to this thread, or even TW, although I have seen several people on here talk about him with a presumption that our central defensive issue is resolved. (Not just you, so don't take my concerns personally.)

I live here in the UK and have close contact with many fellow Blues so I have several more discussions about Everton than the ones TW affords me.

I expressed concern at the way Branthwaite has been projected because I have seen it many times before.

Too many times I have witnessed people change their tune before they've even finished the song – "We've got a diamond called... Fuck off, you useless twat".

Mina is totally unreliable so a replacement is needed.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Yerry Mina being “superb” in an Everton shirt. He’s had a few good ones, a few where he has looked lost, a few where he was indifferent and a few where he was injured.

I think that Branthwaite is doing exactly what he should be doing, being a young 4th choice centre-back who is impressing when he plays.

That is also exactly where him and Gibson should be next season – battling out for the chance to be 4th choice. If all 3 ahead of them stay injury and suspension free (unlikely) then they might not get a game next season, but the confidence shown if there is a chance should be the making of players.

This is what we should be doing with Baningime and Adeniran too. Get down to 4 central midfielders and let them play for the 5th choice role. Again, if everyone stays fit, then they might not play much, but if they don't then they get given the chance. In terms of midfield, I would strip it down to Gomes, Gbamin, Davies and a new signing.

FFS, the lad's an 18-year-old, comes on and has a MotM performance and a few well-deserved words of praise on ToffeeWeb is heaping pressure on the lad!!!

Cmon now, let's be happy he didn't fluff his lines and give him praise and encouragement cos he deserves it.

Very pleasing words from Unsworth about Branthwaite in the Echo, calm but full of optimism. This is a big part of the way forward for us as a club, develop through our youth programme and through shrewd and cheap acquisitions like young Jarrad (£750k). Of course, we need one or two more senior buys too and some astute trading. The Atletico model.

Unsworth can have a crucial role in this; it's not all about appearing front and centre.

Unsworth: “Jarrad is one of a number of players who we have high hopes for.”

Praise indeed from Unsie.

Ricky 4 - agree entirely.

This lot need clearing out:

Pickford, Walcott, Davies, Delph, Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Bernard, Kean. (Keep Coleman and Baines on 1-year contracts for experienced cover). And if Mina and Michael Keane don't show improvement, show them the door too. I'm looking for ruthlessness from Ancelotti.

Also the dross still on the books, Sandro, Bolasie, Besic etc. Get shut! And the youngsters on the fringe, who don't seem very young or promising anymore, either give them a shot or find them new clubs.

We need a clean slate, once again. Is there any light at the end of this tunnel? New stadiums? With this crew? Don't make me laugh. We are more likely to be relegation candidates next season.

Buy a decent proven consistent Goalkeeper immediately and rebuild the team from there.

Who was it on here who called for us to sign Souceck? Looks like Moyes has done it again!

The lad has been excellent in his first season in the Premier League, goal-scoring central defensive midfielder and they will pick him up at the end of the season for £15M!!!

Jim #32, in my opinion, Mina was overall our best player through the first 15 games of the season. I had him for MotM four times during that stretch.

Phil #38, Keane has already shown significant improvement since the restart, playing better than I've ever seen him either for us or Burnley, well enough to convince me more than ever that the five current centre-backs in our squad are plenty sufficient. Again, our money should be spent elsewhere.

Mike, we’ve played very deep since Christmas and Keane is a much better defender if he doesn’t need to worry about being turned.

This deep line has led to dreadful performances and the midfield being so bad is down, at least in part, to how deep the defence is.

If we have any desire to push for top 6 next season, we must play a higher line and then Keane will once again be exposed. We need pace in the middle of that defence.

However, it could be they Carlo thinks Holgate, Branthwaite, and Gibson are fast enough to cover for Keane and Mina. And as we have agreed in the past, Mina ain’t that slow once he sorts his feet out and gets going. He’d certainly murder Keane in a footrace over 50 metres.

Mike,

Mina is unfit, again. As he was when we came out of quarantine. As he is so often. So good when he is fit... but he rarely stays fit.

Kieran, I think it may be linked to his size. Big guys, like basketballers, seem to have susceptibility to joint injuries and it seems Mina (who did not have a bad injury record prior to Everton) might be heading down that route.

In any business, you must look at solutions to current problems while outlining a future course. In this regard and allowing for probable improvement with experience, would a combination from Branthwaite, Gibson and Holgate complement each other in a central defence in say, 3 or 4 years time?

While the midfield is necessarily the area that needs improving and could possibly relieve some of the pressure on the defence, would Gabriel improve things by being able to play the ball out of defence? That is, somebody helping a midfield that is helping the defence.

All of which raises the question, if we did sign Gabriel, would we need 3 (possibly 4) senior central defenders with 2 (possibly 3) promising youngsters depending on how you classify Holgate, or are we just adding to the problem of reducing the wage bill even allowing for long-term injuries, contracts expiring, age and pandemics and their outcome?

Now, who was it that said we need to change the Director of Football policy?

Get a good fee for either Mina or Keane, preferably Keane while he is getting good reports playing deep. When we play with a high line he is a very poor defender, still making plenty of mistakes playing deep, by the way.

He is still not aware of where he is, with that astonished look on his face when he cocks it up. Getting the money we paid for him would be a good deal, in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind if we sold the two of them and got a good one in.

Soucek has done very well Steve S. Moyes took a punt on him and they look like they have a good player.

The Czech league is poor and quality players are usually gone before they reach their twenties. I wasn't expecting much of him but he's taken his good form in the Czech league and kept it going in a poor team in a good league.

Yes, Rob, someone was on here banging the Souceck drum at the beginning of the season. I can't remember who it was but good shout nonetheless.

Say what you like about Moyes but he can pick a bargain.

Maybe we can get Hlozek instead. Younger and exceptionally talented. Destined for big things.

It's not just Soucek. Bowen has 4 assists since the restart and is still acclimatising. Moyes has always had an eye.

Are those Moyes's only two signings, Carl? Let's bring Moyes back as chief scout, let Carlo manage and get rid of Brands!! :)

Rob, Hlozek is very young, that right-midfield spot is crucial to nail on with a ready-made player, good to go in the Premier League in September.

Aside from Buendia, any other decent right-midfielders in the teams likely to be relegated? Sarr?

I think Keane has been better than Mina since the resumption, Dave.

Mina has been as poor buy. really disappointing. If he's been superb in an Everton shirt, he's done it when I wasn't looking.

We’ll maybe finish 15 points off he top 6 and we’re aiming at buendia? God help us.

We need pace and goals from midfield. We have none at present and he won’t solve either

Daren hind, please don’t start saying send Branthwaite out on loan to make him ready for us. He’s ready now he’s good enough so play him all the time every time. Remember Ferdinand he’s was ready and so is Branthwaite and if he’s not st least we will know.

There’s a possibility that bringing in a new CB also provides further CM options in the shape of Holgate - Ancelloti has played him there before and he didn’t look out of place

Bobby #54 I'm with you on this, kid comes in gives a free kick away (soft arsed ref's give anything nowadays my granny hit harder than that waft) and they scored from it. It didn't faze the lad he was confident comfortable on the ball and his passing was to one of OUR players (midfielders take note how to pass to a team mate). So the train of thought is drop him to the U 23's or send him out to benefit some other team, you should play your best players and at the moment the 18 year old is holding his own and deserves his place in the team on merit. What would it do for his confidence if after showing up the other centre halves he is dropped.

There are players who actually demand a place in the team not verbally but by their ability and performance.

Davies is a midfielder but he lacks the attributes to be a playmaker as that requires good distribution and an eye for a defence splitting pass, he lacks the attributes to be a defensive midfielder as every tackle he commits is a foul and he lacks the speed and stamina of a Gueye or a Kante but he is ok to some. If he is worth his place then so is Branthwaite.

Steve S @51

At some point we need to break the cycle of average players. Buendia has good assist stats and is a tidy footballer. He improves but does not transform our right flank.

While we might spend at least £25m on Buendia, Dortmund, Leipzig etc will spend say £10m on a player like Hlozek. In two years they have a Champs league quality player, to match their champions league ambitions.

Hlozek is an example. Veron at Palmeiras is another. I expect (hope) Brands has a long list of others. His counterparts at successful clubs certainly will.

I'd be happy to put up with Iwobi & Walcott for 18 months while a young player of that quality is gradually readied for the first team.

Looking back, who would prefer Lookman and Vlasic to Iwobi and Walcott? They're certainly no worse.

Robert (51) - I think we will be putting up with Iwobi.

Theo is like Besic and a couple others; 1 year left on his contract.

Darren (52), I don’t think Mina has played a lot since the resumption but wouldn’t argue too much who is the better of the two, I hope neither are long term players for Everton, be great if we could get what we paid for them and buy a really top class centre back with the money, because Holgate is going to be a very good player and we can bide our time waiting for Gibson and Branthwaite.

Dave,

You've been watching long enough to know you should always be on the look out for better players.

I always feel that, if you have been critical of a player you should be prepared to acknowledge when he has played well. I have been very critical of Keane in the past, but I've been made up with his form since the resumption.

To be honest, I haven't completely given up on Big Yerry yet. He drives me nuts because he is the softest "hard man" I have ever seen and I don't think he is as focused as he should be, but he has hardly put any sort of run of appearances together which makes me reluctant to write him off completely.

Darren (60),

I honestly have no problem praising players when I see them having a good game. Michael Keane doesn't do it for me, he never looks nervous all the time to me and if you think Mina is the softest “hard man“ then Michael could be his twin, so easily bullied and never lets his opponent know he is there with a good solid tackle.

He is just too nice, like a choir boy, safety first is his game, his first thought is to pass the ball to the man nearest to him, if not back to Pickford, or a long ball up the pitch, often into the crowd. Now and again he makes a good one.

No, Darren, he's not for me, makes me as nervous as himself.

Lille have just signed Sven Botman from Ajax, a very tall left-footed young (20) centre-half. Looks like the Gabriel Maghaeles replacement. So that transfer saga may be resolved soon.

Robert,

According to Sky, just now, his agent is in the UK now to meet up with Everton and Man Utd.

If we sign Gabriel (and that's a big 'if')... I think we are more likely to sell Mina rather than Keane. Despite his limitations, Keane is relatively consistent, if unspectacular.

Let's be honest, Yerry has not really done anything of note since his arrival. As also mentioned by others above, one of the softest 'hard men' I've ever seen, and always prone to making a silly tackle or a rash challenge.

Time to cut our losses with this one.