Dowell grabs a hat-trick as Wigan destroy Hull 8-0

I really hope Wigan can wriggle free from the 12 point penalty for going into administration that could relegate them.

What has happened there is criminal.

I wondered aloud on here a couple of weeks ago what Carlo Ancelotti will make of Kieran Dowell when he sees him.

It's possibly too late for Kieran at Everton now, but for me his is a real sliding doors story.

Carlo will be impressed with his innate football skills. I would argue that technically he is as gifted as any one on our books. Everyone knows the vital ingredient missing from his game.

He had as good a pre-season as anyone under both Koeman and Silva and his season long loan to Forest was going very well until they changed managers and the new man didn't fancy Kieran.

Last season as part of Sheffield United's promotion team he had some good moments, but was not a regular starter. Brands placing him at Derby at the start of this extended season with his old PSV sidekick Phillip Coco on paper looked shrewd, but again Kieran wasn't a regular.

He has seen more game time at Wigan since joining in January.

Under the right manager at the right time he might have had a chance at Everton.

Has that chance with Carlo come too late..?

What about Hull City, who Wigan beat 8-0, they were 8 points off the playoffs in January, and the owners thought they wouldn't make it, so sold their 3 best players, including Bowen for 㿂M, to balance the books. It backfired completely, and they will probably be relegated.

I've been saying this for 4 years now but, if someone could improve the defensive side of Dowell's game and instil some real competitive spirit and discipline in him, then he has the talent to play in the Premier League.

His hat-trick goal was a thing of beauty and the sort of controlled finish that not many players have in their locker. Joe Williams could end up back in the Premier League some day; he has a good all-round game and, if it weren't for untimely injuries, then we might have been seeing him rather than, or as well as, Tom Davies in the centre of our midfield right now.

Williams looked excellent, as you say. I hope he flourishes, it can still happen.

Wigan 8 Hull 0

Not only did Kieran fire in a very impressive hat-trick, it's him that sets up the first goal, cutting past two Hull players from a short corner then hanging the ball up to the far post for an easy header.

Another old boy Joe Williams scores the 7th on the stroke of half-time and you see Antonee Robinson having a shot tipped over the bar.

About the only time the Hull keeper moved. He didn't get his knees dirty on any of the goals.

Another of our loanees, Josh Bowler, started for Hull. Subbed out on 35 minutes.

Dowell is, like me, consistently failing to hit the heights. until it doesn't really matter.

It's a bit of money for our transfer kitty and a permanent move for him which is what he needs. Maybe we can let Wigan keep him as a sweetener for young Joe Gelhardt?

The issue has always been consistency (admittedly also the main problem with most of the players in the first team) and putting together 90-minute performances. That was the main purpose of his loan moves and, by all accounts, something that hasn't really improved in his game.

Like Gavin said, he just doesn't seem to have the right temperament, unfortunately.

I see it as a positive that he's playing in a Wigan team who are not only playing attractive football but playing for their survival and needing their players to fight too. Let Carlo have a look at him pre-season and decide then.

I see Joe Williams scored a goal too, good on him. He's not good enough for us but sure as hell shows more fight than our current spineless midfielders.

On a more serious note, there are some late bloomers in football – Jamie Vardy springs to mind readily. Hopefully, Kieran finds a consistent level of performance so that we can sell him for decent money to a Championship team. He may develop into a decent Premier League level footballer, like John Lundstram has for Sheffield United.

What could he have been a part of, how much he could have matured and grown in confidence and value?

I like the lad but he has to fit into a certain teams style. He's got a bit of LeTissier about him. Talent yes, work rate and defending no.

He's not what our midfield needs at the moment but who knows what Carlo is planning?

Anyone in any doubt about his top flight pedigree then have a look at his third goal last night. Outrageous.

He has twice the talent of Gordon, but only half the confidence. He flourished under Waburton at Nottm Forest and needs a manager to convince him of his talent.

I always had high hopes for Dowell but his application is sadly lacking.

We should sell for whatever we can get, but he'll probably get a new 5-year contract.

Steven Pienaar's career was rejuvenated when he first signed for Everton and there must have been a couple of others, but I doubt it's a long list over recent years.

Almost as impressive as the last goal in the Kieran Dowell package, was the way he pressed the Hull defender and won the ball from him just inside the half for his 2nd goal.

The commitment and discipline are the easy bits, the skill is the difficult piece to add to the package of any footballer and he has that.

I haven't seen him in many games, so can't make an assessment on his lack of commitment that others have mentioned. He's a year older, so maybe he has improved and Carlo can bring out the best in him.

Liked how quickly he tackled one of the opposing players and has decent acceleration over 10 yards.

Would be a good squad player for us next season.

In my view he has not been given sufficient first-team opportunities at Everton for anyone to pass judgement on his suitability. What I do know is we have paid tens of millions for players who appear to have less natural skill and negligible application.

I and a lot of other Evertonians followed his career and the majority of the aforementioned supporters on fan sites were saying what some of us already knew. He has moments of brilliance but that's outweighed by him walking languidly around the pitch and basically going missing.

You would have made a very valid point except you didn't take into account the last 3 seasons of loans.

Dowell is a different sort of player but I'm still not sure Warnock would suit him. He's like the English Bilyaletdinov. Not sure what his best position is, won't run around a lot but lovely technique and superb left foot. Maybe he could go and join Vlasic out in Russia.

A silly idea – but there's a lot of sense in sending players like Dowell on loan to Eredivisie rather than Championship. Bit more freedom to play slower, technical football and develop into a more elite player.

Ross first went on loan in the 2012-13 season to Championship side Sheffield Wednesday under ex-Everton player (and unfairly maligned manager) Dave Jones. He played regularly under Jones and the Wednesday fans loved him.

Mid-season he was loaned to another Championship side, Leeds Utd, who were managed by Warnock. I have family and friends around Leeds and Bradford who are huge Leeds fans. They couldn't understand Warnock's reluctance to play Ross as they said his class was obvious.

Everton, exasperated that he wasn't given the promised game time Leeds had said they would give him, recalled him before the season's end.

I agree with you that Kieran should have been given a chance in an Everton shirt, rather than always sent out on loan.

Thus my 'sliding doors' comment earlier in the thread. Under the right manager, with the right encouragement, his innate football skills are a huge asset.

As I also said, maybe it's already too late for Kieran at Everton, but I would hazard a guess that Carlo will be impressed at Kieran's football ability when he gets to see him and wonder if he can make something of him.

Because technically, Kieran is as gifted as any footballer we currently have on our books.

Not saying he doesn't deserve another go, but he has been given opportunities and he didn't come remotely close to taking them.

I personally have never been sure of the lad but what pisses me off big time is the fact successive managers have preferred "the stars" and not persisted with the "dross".

We have seen for years that the stars have let us down consistently. Would it have been any worse if we had actually persevered with the "dross"?

That doesn't mean he can't have a go again and play with confidence and show what he can do. Maybe he'll overcome his nerves with these loans?

Lukaku would score a one or two and get slagged.

Jimmy Husband would make a one or two for Young and get slagged.

Bloody Young would get a couple and...… well, I must admit, I never slagged him – or Vernon! Mind you Stevens was shite!!!

Agree, Steve. Chance now gone at Everton. Shame, because I think he helped England win the U-20 World Cup as a left-footed, creative and goalscoring right winger / midfielder. Exactly the sort of player we now need.

Hopefully the hat-trick revives some interest and we get a fee for him.

Kieran actually made his debut for Everton shortly after his 17th birthday in 2014 in a losing Europa League dead rubber game under Martinez. He came on after just 11 minutes, replacing the injured Atzu. It was an extremely youthful team and Kieran played out the remaining 79 minutes. No great shakes. No disgrace.

He had to wait another 18 months for his next Everton 1st team appearance, aged still only 18, playing the Rhino-Big Joe one-off game in the final match of the season vs already relegated Norwich after Martinez was sacked.

Matthew Pennington at right-back, Tom Davies (himself only 17) and Kieran were the surprise starters. All did very well until Kieran was switched out for Ross Barkley on 69 minutes. Jonjoe Kenny came on for Pennington after 30 minutes after the latter picked up a knock.

At the start of the 2018 season – Silva's first – having had as impressive a pre-season as anyone, Kieran made the bench for 3 Premier League games but never saw any minutes. He started two League Cup games. He played the full 90 minutes in a 3-1 win over Rotherham. He was 'okay' – not 'lost'. I remember him working a position and getting a shot off in the 2nd half, but not connecting well.

He then started the next round game vs Southampton. Silva was heavily criticised for his selection as he made 7 changes from the previous Premier League game. Losing 1-0 at half-time, it wasn't fluent. Kieran was taken off at half-time and replaced by Niasse. Walcott equalised late in that game, but we were knocked out on penalties.

That was October 2018. Five games then across four years, aged 17-21, is the sum total of Kieran Dowell's 1st team career at Everton.

I can understand the loans Kieran has been sent out on, with different degrees of success due to mitigating circumstances. I personally felt all would have been better served if he had remained at Everton last season, rather than loaned to Sheffield United, and been given minutes with us.

You both like skilled footballers. You both champion youth. So I really am quite surprised when Steve in particular says things like "he has been given opportunities and he didn't come remotely close to taking them... he really let himself down and his passing deserted him. He froze big time."

That's a gross exaggeration of his performances in 5 games over 4 years.

We have perservered with far worse footballers than Kieran Dowell down the years. We as a club should have done more – and maybe still can – to discover if Kieran could fulfil his immense potential as a first-team player.

Why wouldn't you try to give an opportunity to a player who, I will repeat, is techniquely as good as anyone we currently have at the club?

Dowell reminds me of Sheedy, left peg and all, than Le Tissier. As Ancelotti is going 4-4-2 who knows?

Davies was seen as more industrial, so got given more chances, whilst Dowell's laid-back style was too risky.

WHen you consider our midfield can't string two passes together, you wonder 'what if Dowell had been given 100+ games to prove himself. Would he be better or worse than Davies (never mind Gomes, Siggy and co).

Dowell has unbelievable talent, and I'd love to see him develop into a deep sitting playmaker. But the boat has passed it would seem - yet i'd prefer him in the squad to any of our current midfielders next season.

This, we were led to believe, proved he wasn't good enough for the mighty Everton. How can it be that he isn't starting for such a lowly team.

That team, and their midfield, has proven to be excellent, far superior to anything the mighty Everton have to offer. And he was a part of it last season.

But how bad are Hull, if Wigan can score 8 against them?

Not so. You're referring to the first half of that season.

The 2nd half he played less and less. For the final run-in for the title, Wilder kept a healthy Dowell parked on the bench, except for a single, late-game cameo.

I'm not convinced he would set the Premier League alight, he's not shone often in the Championship this year but I found myself thinking how much less effective he'd be than the likes Bernard, let's say? The former is on 㿀k p/w and the latter 𧴰k.

If we could sell Bernard, use Dowell as squad cover, and spend those saved wages on a proper midfielder, then I'd be happy enough.

Being realistic more than anything. I would love to see him succeed but at 22, with a very patchy last couple of years time is against him. Based on Championship performances we wouldn't be looking to buy him, put it that way.

I think getting him at Derby with Cocu was designed to see him learn / develop under someone Brands knows and trusts. Didn't work out.

Compare him with Harry Wilson, similar player, who did great there previous season (under Lampard, different circumstances I know).

A point I do keep making is that, the next time we get another Dowell, it might be better to send him to develop in the Eredivisie than the Championship.

For me Finch Farm, has a lot to explain, but time it appears has run out. Another enigma, and great promise not forfilled at Everton.

Where ever Kieran goes, in the game, I will wish him well.