Premier League returns after 100 days

Wednesday, 17 June, 2020 119comments  |  Jump to last

The Premier League finally returns after a 100-day hiatus caused by the Covid-19 pandemic.

The first two games were originally moved because of the League Cup Final — Aston Villa v Sheffield United kick off at 6:00 pm, followed by Manchester City vs Arsenal at 8:15 pm.

And a farcical incident marred the first match, a poor 0-0 draw, when a Villa defender bundled his goalkeeper and the ball over the line but Hawkeye failed to signal a goal. An apology was proferred after the match, which will do nothing to placate Chris Wilder and makes a complete mockery of the clearly malleable rules of the games.

Plus a horrific incident near the end of the second match, which Man City won 3-0. Eric Gracia was totally whipped out by goalkeeper Ederson in an extremely rash defensive dash out of his area.

City's victory means that all the media talk of Liverpool winning the Premier League title at Goodison Park on Sunday can now safely be consigned to the rubbish bin.


Reader Comments (119)

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Fran Mitchell
1 Posted 17/06/2020 at 12:12:40
Let's just hope to God/Buddha/Jah or whoever that Man City do not lose today.
Julian Exshaw
2 Posted 17/06/2020 at 17:46:13
Who's in favour of fake sound? I saw a game in the Italian league last week with fake sound and it was quite well done. They also had cardboard fans dotted around. Whatever way it's broadcast, it'll be pretty weird.
Michael Lynch
3 Posted 17/06/2020 at 18:07:14
As long as they don't have the sound of the lad who sits next to me at the match. All he does is moan. We should have 39,000 cardboard cut-outs of Speedo Mick. That'll put the RS off their gegenpress.
Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 17/06/2020 at 18:46:11
If you think you've heard some shite come out of Liverpudlians in the past then I predict that in the next few weeks, they will take it to a much higher level!
John Keating
5 Posted 17/06/2020 at 19:11:32
I watched the first 10 minutes of the Schalke - Dortmund game and switched off as I thought it was an embarrassment.

I have just watched the first half of the Villa game and switched off. An absolute joke. In fact, it is embarrassing.

Not only is the game shite but the fact that the goalline technology, the VAR and the fucking officials' eyes aren't working sums the whole pathetic season up.

Sorry guys, love the site but hopefully see you next season.

Jim Wilson
6 Posted 17/06/2020 at 19:22:12
It should not return. It is totally irresponsible, dangerous and led by money.

Everton should have nothing to do with it.

If you factor in the farce of how it's going to be played out you really need your head testing if you think it's a good idea.

Christy Ring
7 Posted 17/06/2020 at 19:30:44
An absolute joke, nothing has changed, VAR wasn't working in the first half? Total shambles, just end the season now.
Joe McMahon
8 Posted 17/06/2020 at 19:30:50
Michael@3, let's hope they don't play grand old team.

Some positive news everyone Barrow have ben promoted. 48 years since last in the league.

Mike Hughes
9 Posted 17/06/2020 at 19:49:52
Julian #2,

“They also had cardboard fans dotted around.”

You mean Kopites? Or are they pure plastic?

Martin Mason
10 Posted 17/06/2020 at 20:04:03
I found it worse than watching paint dry.
Derek Knox
11 Posted 17/06/2020 at 20:05:17
Without sounding like Kevin Keegan when he was Manager, I just hope upon hope that we beat them, and they don't win a single game after that. Anything is possible! I've even donated my last tooth to the ' tooth fairy '! 😮😋
Chris Leyland
12 Posted 17/06/2020 at 20:12:58
There will still be more scousers at an empty Goodison on Sunday than there are at a normal full house at Anfield.
Tony Everan
13 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:02:33
Fran #1

There is a god after all...

Eric Paul
14 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:18:25
Did any of these pundits/ journalists even consider we might not lose on Sunday?
Patrick McFarlane
15 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:26:44
Eric #14,

I think that's what gets my goat the most, the total lack of respect that these pundits and journalists give to Everton FC. We're a fairly knowledgeable set of supporters and of course most of us realise that the odds of us beating the neighbours is high, but that doesn't mean that we will just roll over for them, no matter what the circumstances.

I'm just glad their party has been delayed until after the derby but I hope the team can get a result on Sunday and delay it a little bit more.

Rob Halligan
16 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:37:58
I can understand Michael Oliver not seeing the ball over the line for the Sheff Utd "goal", as he was stood on the edge of the penalty area when the free kick came into the Villa box. He was telling the Sheffield players he was not alerted on his watch of the ball crossing the line, so no blame can be apportioned to Oliver. However, the linesman on the far side should, or could, have seen the ball clearly over the line.
Eric Paul
17 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:41:34

I would go as far as to say they actually dislike us, we rarely get any credit for anything, not to mention our work in the community.

Bill Gall
18 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:43:34
Fake sound in an empty ground is like watching an American comedy series with canned laughter that sounds the same after every supposed joke. Free kicks, corners, penalties and goals have different reactions from the crowds that are different at every ground and you can't simulate them with fake crowd noise.
Rob Halligan
19 Posted 17/06/2020 at 22:46:08
Bill, you can bet your bottom dollar the only false sounds we'll hear on Sunday will be the RS fans.
Dennis Stevens
20 Posted 17/06/2020 at 23:11:24
Perhaps that's the way forward for this farce of a season - canned laughter!
Bill Gall
21 Posted 17/06/2020 at 23:19:23
Rob, I hope so it's not often you hear grown-ups cry, sorry they are Liverpool fans and are not grown up yet.
Michael Kenrick
22 Posted 17/06/2020 at 23:20:21
Apparently, the lame excuse for Hawkeye's temporary blindness is that the view from all seven of their cameras were obscured by the players' bodies. First time this has ever happened.

Sorry but you only need to see a fraction of the curvature of the ball to locate it precisely in space. If everyone watching could manage it...

Tom Bowers
23 Posted 17/06/2020 at 23:30:36
Well done, Man City! We have had enough embarrassment for one season. Would be nice to stick one on RS against all the odds but now, with Gomes struggling to be fit, it's unlikely.
Dave Bowen
24 Posted 18/06/2020 at 00:10:30
I have to disagree with the ‘extremely rash defensive dash' out of his box referring to Ederson. That's exactly the clear-minded thinking I want from Pickford. ‘I'm gonna clear that ball & bollocks to whoever's in my way.'
James Byrne
25 Posted 18/06/2020 at 00:51:58
Strange first day back. Sheffield United were robbed and Man City looked excellent against a terrible Arsenal side.

But, after waiting for what feels like years for football to come back and give us some "normal", I feel robbed! The recent George Floyd events have gone global and in most cases, quite rightly. The death of George Floyd was a tragedy.

I am not happy however with the entire BLM issue now taking over our football matches. Watching Sky tonight I feel the most important discussion point was BLM, and not the games. I'm not racist and never have been, but having this thrown down our necks after being in lockdown for so long concerns me. We are not the USA.

Derek Thomas
26 Posted 18/06/2020 at 01:34:29
Michael @ 22; yet somebody managed to post a clear picture on the BBC Sport website showing the whole of the ball...and keeper, over the whole of the line.

Those 2 'lost points' and Villas 'gained point' could be costly for somebody come the end of the season.

Not the first time Sheffield Utd have had the shitty end of the decision stick either.


Tony J Williams
27 Posted 18/06/2020 at 01:36:48
There are going to be loads of injuries in the next couple of weeks, players aren't fit yet and muscles will give.
Joe McMahon
28 Posted 18/06/2020 at 07:58:11
Reminds me of a Spurs goal disallowed at old Trafford a few years ago, you would be able to see the keeper and ball over the line from the moon. As already stated not the first time Sheffield Utd have been robbed this season.

For such a money driven league the decisions that rule the game are farcical. I knew Liverpool would win the league back in October when a last minute dive v Leicester in front of the kop by Mane didn't recieve a yellow card, it was an injury time penalty to win the match.

Tim Welsh
29 Posted 18/06/2020 at 08:50:52
Eric, I agree that with your assertion that the media actually dislike us, but there have been reports on the BBC about our work in the community. However, they were on the Victoria Darbyshire programme which the BBC has pulled ! I rest my case.

There are RS at every level of the BBC.

I remember Steve Wright on Radio Luxembourg in 1979 as QPR fan when he joined the Radio 1 he suddenly became a RS supporter...

Ray Roche
30 Posted 18/06/2020 at 09:19:24
Tim, I've never heard of Steve Wright supporting RS but I remember Lineker complaining that all the producers, bosses etc at MOTD were RS “supporters “ and allowed their bias to influence how the programme was televised.
Martin Nicholls
31 Posted 18/06/2020 at 09:19:51
Shameful that match officials no longer have the authority/courage to rely on their own eyes rather than on the technology that is contributing to the ruination of our game. I didn't watch either game last night as I think it wrong that they're being played but comments and the BBC still photo suggest that even Dominic Cummings would have seen that the ball had crossed the line!
Joe McMahon#28 - like you, I knew at that moment (the Mane dive) that rs were being lined up to be awarded the PL and that nothing (not even a pandemic) would thwart that aim.
Dave Abrahams
32 Posted 18/06/2020 at 10:14:58
I missed most parts of the Villa v Sheffield Unt. game because I wasn't really interested although I did see the goal, absolutely no idea why it wasn't awarded.

I did watch the City v Arsenal game, what a pleasure to watch City brilliant passing game, even at 75% of their usual fitness they were great to see, I long for the day I see Everton perform like that.

Brian Harrison
33 Posted 18/06/2020 at 10:29:21
I havent watched any of the German football, and only switched on Sky to see how City and Arsenal were doing after watching the best programme on the telly the Repair Shop. I was just in time to see the penalty, but it is nothing like watching a normal game, to be honest I like watching City but after 10 minutes of this soulless game I switched it off. I cant get excited about the derby either and probably will just switch on at half time and full time to see the score.
If this is how next season starts with no fans I think interest in the games will reduce massively and that will undoubtedly have a knock on effect on advertisers and sponsors.

I think what it does highlight is how important fans are to the spectacle, so maybe collectively we can make sure our opinions count in future. Personally I would like all Saturday 5.30 kick offs binned as well as Friday night games. Lets face it we have seen football without fans and its not a saleable product without us.

Dave Ganley
34 Posted 18/06/2020 at 11:30:37
James Byrne #25 the fact that you've wrote what you have just shows how much education you need if you think BLM is just a US issue
Sukhdev Sohal
35 Posted 18/06/2020 at 12:21:20
25. James- How ignorant can you get?
Joe McMahon
36 Posted 18/06/2020 at 12:58:10
James @25, sorry dude but I am a BAME person and believe me racism like homophobia is a worldwide problem.
Paul Jones
37 Posted 18/06/2020 at 13:04:49
" Phoney football " to just fulfil a contract reflects badly upon the integrity of the game.
The most memorable parts of this season is going to be the universal support of Black Lives Matter (BLM) and the campaign by Marcus Rashford for school meal vouchers in the summer holidays.
The restart seems to have the obvious financial incentive, if there was a political motivation of "giving people some cake" to detract from the big issues of poverty and race in our society seems to have failed.
After Hillsborough I thought it would have been a more fitting tribute to have not continued the tournament. Likewise now I think it would be a fitting tribute to those that have died to end the season in memorial.
For us all to be defined by "money and position" benefits only the self serving few.
John McFarlane Snr
38 Posted 18/06/2020 at 13:59:00
Hi Dave [32] I didn't watch either of last nights games and I have no intention of watching any televised games played behind closed doors. The football and television authorities, have almost drained me of any enthusiasm I possess. I listened to part of the Villa game and the second half of the City vs Arsenal game and it was eerie, to me the fans are an integral part of the match-day experience, and if it wasn't for me attending games with Josh, [my grandson] there is every likelihood that I could walk away from something that I was once passionate about. I have however, seen highlights from both games and while I can understand the referee and linesman not giving the Sheffield United goal, a human failing, I was under the impression that VAR would have been employed, after all they are quick enough to disallow a goal if an offence is detected in the build-up. The game that you and I grew up watching is being slowly but surely sacrificed on the altar of 'GREED'
Steve Ferns
39 Posted 18/06/2020 at 14:07:38
Well said Johnny Mac!

As I said to my Liverpool supporting mate, you know how you can ask "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?“ well if Liverpool won the league and there was no one in the stadium to see it, did it really happen?!

Dave Ganley
40 Posted 18/06/2020 at 14:32:51
John #38, pretty much my sentiments also.
Joe McMahon
41 Posted 18/06/2020 at 14:49:23
Steve @39, unfortunately yes as live pictures will be seen all over the world. Oh, and the other planets also as no doubt YNWA is graffiti on Mars and Jupiter too.
Steve Ferns
42 Posted 18/06/2020 at 14:50:55
Joe, Maybe we can put whatever TV channel that was broadcasting when Gosling scored that goal during the ad break, in charge?
Dave Abrahams
44 Posted 18/06/2020 at 16:49:23
John (38), Yes, I think most fans would agree that the continuation of football is down to money, definitely where the Premier League is concerned.

The one consolation I take from the restart is that the death toll has reduced sufficiently, but obviously still not enough to allow the game to be played again. But as you say, not as we know it, and without the fans it is soulless and it will stay that way until we return. And lots of fans may never return.

Michael O'Malley
45 Posted 18/06/2020 at 17:43:59
Glad City have put a dampener on the red shites expected celebrations on Sunday as I've just driven past the Deysbrook pub by rs training ground and it's decked out with all the usual banners and flags and huge picture of Klopp grinning ear to ear, please blues give us something to celebrate in this horrible season COYB
Jeff Spiers
46 Posted 18/06/2020 at 18:23:30
Why was my post taken down?
Graham Coldron
47 Posted 18/06/2020 at 18:47:37
The way we are treated by the media has always fascinated me and I first became aware of this when we started to go downhill from 1971 when the BBC seemed to revel in our apparent fall from grace.When we dominated in the mid 80's any positivity was grudgingly given and the brilliant book " Money Can't Buy Us Love" provides an insight to this debate.

When Sky came along things got worse and the situation has has not been helped by having a generation of pundits and media types who have known nothing but the Premier League.

Referees always seem to have a hidden agenda against us and we can all remember Graham Poll's stance after disallowing a last minute winner against the R.S. to much merriment.

The appointment of Ancelotti raised a few eyebrows especially on Sky where the perception and dare I say it wish that he should go to Arsenal and is just another example of a skewed attitude to our club.

Season ticket holders have been offered a refund but I don't recall this being mentioned anywhere apart from the environs of L4.

Let's hope to a win on Sunday !

Jeff Spiers
48 Posted 18/06/2020 at 18:50:07
Don't all lives matter, whatever the colour? If you haven't noticed the planet is being destroyed by a force far evil than can be imagined. It wants civil war, stirred by middle class snobbery. Those that survive will become slaves to their wants and needs. All races, creeds etc. need to be as one, not divided. I am saddened my post was removed. The world is going to be scary for our kids and grandkids.
Julian Exshaw
49 Posted 18/06/2020 at 19:06:51
I saw most of the Man City - Arsenal game with Dolby surround fake sound!! To be honest, I think Sky loves this option as they won't have to apologise 200 times for every swear word that comes through.

The game itself was okay under the circumstances but our friend Mikel has a lot of work to do with that side.

John McFarlane Snr
50 Posted 18/06/2020 at 19:50:35
Hi Dave [44],

I agree with you when you state that the only consolation to the resumption of the Premier League programme is the fact that the death toll has reduced sufficiently. However, I do feel that, if it wasn't for the fact that the Premier League went crazy when they received the first of their money from the TV companies, ridiculous transfer fees leading to ridiculous wages, has led them to their current situation.

Unfortunately clubs in the lower Leagues followed suit, and now find themselves in dire straits. I think that you, I, and others of our generation were extremely lucky to witness football when it was at its best, both on and off the pitch.

Phil Smith
51 Posted 18/06/2020 at 20:51:35
Thank God Man City won. Us to do the same on Sunday, please.
Jeff Armstrong
52 Posted 18/06/2020 at 21:02:42
Watched last night and could not believe the way the penalty against Arsenal after a challenge by Luiz was completely swept under the carpet of the fact the foul started OUTSIDE the penalty box, no pen, no red card, no goal, but Sky's pundits Neville and Carragher clearly have an anti-Luiz agenda. (I don't rate him either but that's beside my point.)

The referee Anthony Taylor is a completely useless gobshite and he was not taken to task by anyone about his performance, if those two had been commenting on their favourite RS teams, that incident would have been replayed countless times as incompetence by the ref.

Eric Paul
53 Posted 18/06/2020 at 21:17:43
If the foul play carries into the box, it's a penalty, Jeff.
Bobby Mallon
54 Posted 18/06/2020 at 21:34:41
Last night's goal was not looked at by VAR on purpose. The game was so bad and such a rubbish advert for the Premier League. VAR not getting involved took the heat off a shit game that should never have been played.
Jeff Armstrong
55 Posted 18/06/2020 at 21:48:29
Is that a rule change, Eric? I thought it went back to where the incident started, my mistake.

Taylor, Carragher and Neville are still Gobshites though!

Eric Paul
56 Posted 18/06/2020 at 21:52:28
Or a cynical mind might think it was to help Man Utd to 5th and into the Champions League place (pending Man City's ban being upheld, albeit reduced to 1 year) where Sky want them.
Eric Paul
57 Posted 18/06/2020 at 21:56:46
I thought the same as you, Jeff, but some guru on talkShite cleared it up to a Gooner who said the same as you (and me).
Patrick McFarlane
58 Posted 18/06/2020 at 22:33:59
Catcherintherye pens a decent piece about the return of football, but I'm surprised that he and many others believe that Sky belongs to Rupert Murdoch, as the Media Mogul sold his shares to American media giant Comcast a couple of years ago. This relatively recent change of ownership of Sky might explain its hard-nosed reaction in ensuring the season wasn't ever likely to be declared null and void?

Return of the Prodigal

On Sunday, those that choose to watch on TV, will witness one of the strangest events in derby history a stadium with less than a few hundred people in attendance. The Football History Boys remind us of what many of us have taken for granted for so many years - no not the result but the atmosphere!.

Greatest Rivalries

Si Cooper
59 Posted 19/06/2020 at 00:41:14
I can never get that excited if Everton aren't playing but I thought the Man City v Arsenal game was entertaining. The canned crowd sound was okay (you tend to tune it out) but it wasn't clear whether they were broadcasting it at the stadium or dubbing it on to the broadcast. The players didn't seem to have too many motivational problems (well definitely not Citeh).

The problem may be that lesser teams are not getting a boost from fervent home support which allows them to raise their game, so these games may allow the technically better teams to control the games to a greater degree if the players can't generate some passion from within.

I don't understand why the VAR guys couldn't have intervened and asked the ref to view the images that clearly show the ball crossed the line in the Blades - Villa game.

Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 19/06/2020 at 07:50:52
It's a farce Si, especially if VAR, was supposedly introduced to eradicate mistakes, and give us something akin to a second ref.

Nothings changed, except maybe the controversy has been replaced by a more sickening thought, and that is, that there is definitely an ulterior motive to protect certain teams, even when they're not playing.

Michael Kenrick
61 Posted 19/06/2020 at 07:54:50
So, Patrick (58) and many many other posters, if this restart business is all down to Sky and their visceral greed, how is it the Premier League is the last major league in Europe to get back to playing football?

Do Sky exert the same degree of control over all these other leagues? Or is it more likely that there is a strong collective desire across the football world to get back to doing what they live and train for? — Playing football.

David Woodworth
62 Posted 19/06/2020 at 07:56:58
Jeff @48.

I agree with your post; unfortunately, too many ignorant people about that don't realize what's going on.

As for the perpetual whiners going on about the return of football is all about money. Well, take a look around, businesses are failing everywhere, football is not immune.

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Ray Robinson
63 Posted 19/06/2020 at 09:05:09
I agree with David's point. I don't see why football is any different to any other business that is trying to adapt in order to survive.

If you don't like behind-closed-doors football but want to see the return of top-flight football with crowds in attendance, then you can't moan too much because the second won't be possible without the first. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Too many people are forgetting that any business, however awash with money it may have been, goes under without adequate cashflows.

Are bars and restaurants greedy too for wanting to re-open and relax the 2-metre rule? After all, you can drink at home if you like but who would want that permanently?

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
64 Posted 19/06/2020 at 09:31:08
Steve Ferns was offended by it, Jeff. He said:

"I object to this as irrelevant to the forum and provocative."

Not sure I can agree with that, to be honest. How on earth can saying "ALL lives matter" be provocative exactly? Surely it's promoting equality rather than making a blatantly racist statement that some people who total eschew all forms of racism and inequality may be offended by? Or are you saying that promoting equality is no longer enough?

Jeff, you say that "the planet is being destroyed by a force far [more] evil than can be imagined." Sorry but there are just too many candidates that could meet that apocalyptic moniker – global warming, communism, Big Pharma, Trumpism, capitalism, nuclear weapons, globalization, religion, the military–industrial complex, mining, China, populism, The Illuminati, the EU... any chance you can be more specific?

Dave Abrahams
65 Posted 19/06/2020 at 09:49:17
Michael (61), since you ask why the Premier League is the last major European football league to get back to playing football, the first reason starts at why it was ended – by the football clubs themselves when Arteta, the Arsenal manager, went down with the virus along with some more cases.

Then, due to the cock up by “Shake Hands Johnson” and his dim-witted cabinet and medical advisers, it has prolonged the death toll from coming down, weeks behind the other European Leagues, and is only now back, at reduced speed, with different rules, more substitutes, drink breaks etc.

Those who say if you don't like it don't watch it are absolutely correct, and that is what a lot of fans are doing. They are also looking at football in a different light and might not come back to watch the game. Certainly the finances of football, transfer fees, wages etc will come under the microscope not only by fans but by most clubs everywhere. I think football fans have been sickened by the greed of clubs and the players they employ, not to mention the players' agents they have to deal with.

Brent Stephens
66 Posted 19/06/2020 at 10:04:42
Dave #65 "Shake Hands Johnson”!

Thanks for that laugh (guffaw) during all this black stuff. Cracker.

Michael Kenrick
67 Posted 19/06/2020 at 10:10:35
Gosh, Dave, thanks... I didn't know any of that stuff.

No, wait a minute. Yes, I did. The point I was making is that the major European leagues have decided to get back to business. Is the Sky money angle, and giving Liverpool the title, the same driver for them? Or is there perhaps something else going on?

Sorry but I've never bought into the unique combination of fear-mongering, virtue signalling, judgementalism, and a sudden flush of monetary righteousness that seems to have triggered what you describe in the second half of you post.

Sure, there must be fans who feel like that and will leave the game. And some financial adjustments for clubs are inevitable, as Paul the Esk has described. But I'm not convinced the moralistic compass adjustment you and others harp on about is all set to change the game forever – no matter how much you may want it to.

The next transfer window will be interesting in that respect: will it be business as usual with massive fees and massive wages still? Or will there be a change? There is still a vast amount of money in the game and the big clubs with money will be all the keener to maintain their status through any leaner times ahead.

No, I would look instead to posts from David Woodworth @62 and Ray Robinson @63. I think they nail it.

Robert Tressell
68 Posted 19/06/2020 at 10:23:30
On another thread we had a really good show of support for a ToffeeWeber who had put up with quite a lot of racist grief at games over the years. Hope is his kids don't have to put up with the same.

Not everyone who uses this forum is white / Christian / straight - although I guess most are. All lives do matter but it's easier to feel confident that's the case if you're in the majority. BLM reminds us that some (sadly with reason) don't feel quite so confident they matter as much.

Dave Abrahams
69 Posted 19/06/2020 at 10:38:22
Michael (67), I really don't know if the drive is to get back to running a business or to give Liverpool the title, but surely there is a great deal more money in the Premier League for Sky TV than there is in the other European leagues.

I doubt very much if the moral financial angle has come because of the present situation, more focussed on it yes, but it has been there in the background with each passing season since Sky took over the Premier League and the greed has increased with every big deal announced.

But, as always, Michael, it is all about opinions, yours might improve now you are back in liberal and free-thinking England!!!

Jeff Spiers
72 Posted 19/06/2020 at 10:40:32
Michael @64,

Thanks for posting. Most appreciated. Yes all human beings should be as one, not divided.

Steve Ferns, how can this be irrelevant and provocative? That is your opinion and I respect that. While the human mind is capable of destruction as well as greatness, as witnessed through history, we will never be at peace. I fucking despair.

Michael, politicians are just puppets, with The Illuminati pulling the strings. This is the evil that wants depopulation. A bigger divide between those who have and the poor. Maybe, one day, scientists will dissolve that segment of the brain that makes us capable of such atrocities. That is my opinion and I thank you for printing it.

Jeff Spiers
73 Posted 19/06/2020 at 11:15:06
Robert @68,

No, I'm not confident at all, despite I may be in the majority. Racial abuse makes my stomach turn. My wife and I have been at the brunt of it. Unfortunately at Goodison, when I stood up against the vitriol aimed at one of our players. Not very nice.

Andrew Haizelden
74 Posted 19/06/2020 at 11:19:43
As a point of interest, what odds are the bookies giving on the others not winning the title?
Michael Kenrick
75 Posted 19/06/2020 at 11:19:48
Jeff... The Illuminati? Seriously?? Out of all those I listed???

I'm beginning to regret this excursion already.

Dave, thanks for helping me improve but now I'm worried it might be a little too liberal and free-thinking here!

Eric Myles
76 Posted 19/06/2020 at 11:33:46
Michael #61, aren't we the last major league to get back to playing because we were the last major league to be affected? And so the last major league to shut down?
John McFarlane Snr
77 Posted 19/06/2020 at 11:50:39
Hi Dave [69] like yourself, I have no great love for Liverpool FC but I accepted as early as Christmas that they would be League Champions, I also think that you and I appreciate good football, irrespective of who plays it. I believe that I'm a man of principle, and having stated that I won't watch games staged in empty grounds, I include Everton games in that category.

Regarding the financial situation, it's my opinion that the Premier League clubs brought today's problems on themselves, by their decision to spend enormous sums on transfer fees and players' wages, neglecting to improve the facilities for the most important people of all, 'the fans'.

As I have posted my view on this subject on one or two occasions, I would imagine that I am one of the "Perpetual Whiners".

Steve Ferns
78 Posted 19/06/2020 at 11:52:36
How is spouting “all lives matter” on a football forum relevant?

It is antagonistic and provocative. In the UK, we have higher death rates for black people than white, pro rata. Arrest rates are at an even worse rate. Unemployment is a similar story. Education almost on the same extreme level with black people getting much worse results at GCSE level. Black people are getting killed in bigger numbers by Covid-19.

Every factor you can think of to measure the quality of life for black people in this country shows that white people have a higher quality of life. So, yes black lives matter, because until those statistics dramatically improve, black lives do not matter in the UK.

Robert Tressell
79 Posted 19/06/2020 at 12:18:22
Jeff, Glad you were brave enough to stick your head above the parapet. The fact you got grief in return tells its own story. Lots of BAME families don't want to go to football matches.

That's why BLM is important and shouldn't be mistaken as an attempt to elevate one group above another.

Steve's statistics also demonstrate.

Brent Stephens
80 Posted 19/06/2020 at 12:19:10
I agree, Steve. The phrase "Black Lives Matter" started to be used by people who wanted to express their outrage at racism and who wanted to protect and enhance black lives. The phrase "all lives matter" then started to be used by, and in the context of, far-right extremists demonstrating to protect statues. Context is everything.

Steve Brown
81 Posted 19/06/2020 at 12:25:24
Posting "all lives matter" is self-evident, like making the point that night-time is dark and daytime is light. Let's see if that truism applies to everyone in society equally? If you are a black person in the UK, you are more likely to leave schools without qualifications, to be unemployed or poor, to be stopped, searched, arrested and imprisoned, and now more likely to catch Covid-19 and die from it.

If you say it is more relevant to state 'all lives matter' rather 'black lives matter', then I am hazarding a guess that you are over 40, male and white. By making the statement, you are aiming to undermine the focus on inequality and racism towards blacks, whether you care to admit it or not.

Declan Campbell
82 Posted 19/06/2020 at 12:43:50
Oh my God, ToffeeWeb is so woke. It is Like a Student Union Forum.
Paul Jones
83 Posted 19/06/2020 at 12:46:52
I really don't understand the objections to the names of "Pressure Groups" they just reflect the action that is needed in society.
I think you will find the "pressure group" for white middle-class males, the House of Commons, has worked very well in the interest of its members for centuries.
Jeff Spiers
84 Posted 19/06/2020 at 12:52:21
Steve. Did I say anything detrimental about black people? White middle-class snobbery that invaded other countries, tortured, raped and pillaged under the flag of the Commonwealth all in its wake. Black people have every right to be angry. No human being should be treated as such.

I did not spout. I am so anti white middle-class hypocrites who hide behind BLM banners and talk a different narrative behind closed doors. Unfortunately, I have been in the company of said people, and their hatred for anything working class is mind-numbing.

Steve, I really hope the world will be ok.

Jeff Spiers
85 Posted 19/06/2020 at 13:07:58
Brent and Steve I did not say it is more relevant. No I am not a far right extremist. My reply to Steve Ferns is my thought. Nor am I a racist. I take objection to that. But I respect your posts.
Jeff Spiers
86 Posted 19/06/2020 at 13:17:07
Michael @75. Don't regret your excursion.
Brent Stephens
87 Posted 19/06/2020 at 13:23:26
Jeff, I'm not calling you a racist or far right extremist. I was just commenting on how, it seems to me, the term "all lives matter" came to arise in recent weeks, and that seems to me to have been very much from far right, racist groups.
Robert Williams
88 Posted 19/06/2020 at 13:41:07
Declan 82 - being one of those that has never frequented a Student Union or its Forum, can you please explain what you mean by "so woke"?

Mine was a lowly Grammar School education and I never came across "so woke".

We did a bit of Latin, French, Welsh and some Englander but ''so woke"!!??

Jay Woods
89 Posted 19/06/2020 at 14:19:49
Brent, it's not just coming from the far right, but from ordinary people who are worn out by the endless list of demands from the BLM activists who appear to be insatiable. Personally, I will never bend the knee for them, no more than I would clap for the NHS... this year it's been one act of go-along-to-get-along group conformity after another.

But this is all about virtue-signalling wokeness for many white liberals, rather than any genuine care for black people's wellbeing. They profess to be outraged at what happened in the US and at all the evils done by the white Anglo establishment in the colonial era, yet the same people were silent when those little girls were so cruelly used and abused in Rotherham. And everyone knows the reason why: for most people, including fake conservatives like our Prime Minister and the Tory masses, it would be better to be put to death in the modern age than to be framed as a racist.

Jeff Spiers
90 Posted 19/06/2020 at 14:40:19
Brent @87. Appreciate your return post.
Steve Ferns
91 Posted 19/06/2020 at 14:55:40
Jeff, I explained why I object to it. I do think it's irrelevant to an Everton site, and I do think it's provocative. Brent already said exactly why that is so.
Jeff Spiers
92 Posted 19/06/2020 at 15:05:17
Jay @89, good observations. As you will see in my posts above about the white Anglo establishment. This does not make me a white liberal who has no care for black people's wellbeing. Far from it.

I am a 68-year-old with a proud working-class background. Born and raised above a Pub with 7 siblings in Everton. I have seen some great people and not-so-great people from all backgrounds. But nothing comes closest to being put down, because of my background and scouse accent (oh yes), by the above-mentioned liberals.

As for the little girls, and other crimes, any mention of it I am accused of racialism, fascist, shut the fuck up. White snobbery holds no bounds. Take care, mate.

Neil Weaver
93 Posted 19/06/2020 at 15:05:22
Do you think the Premier League would have returned if they had have had the foresight to insure themselves against potential losses for the season finishing early? I am not 100% sure on this but I think both the tennis at Wimbledon and the Open golf were insured.

Also, with Sky Sports now officially in charge of creating the atmosphere for the games behind closed doors, what are the odds of Sunday's game having 90% RS songs?

Jeff Spiers
94 Posted 19/06/2020 at 15:18:23
Steve, respect your opinion again. I found the BLM matter irrelevant to an Everton site. That was my opinion. If I upset any ToffeeWebbers then accept my apology.

"Best way to defeat racism: Don't talk about it." — Morgan Freeman.

Dave Lynch
95 Posted 19/06/2020 at 15:58:54
With regards BLM. History is not theirs to eradicate or take ownership of, it is there for us all to learn from, its mistakes as well as its success.

The proportion of black-on-black killings far outweighs the white-on-black murder rate, does that make what happened in the USA okay... Does it shite!!!! That poor lad was murdered in public by a sneering, incompetent bully of a man and his colleagues.

But to eradicate history will only serve to divide the masses and lead to more unrest.

Brent Stephens
96 Posted 19/06/2020 at 16:20:59
I also am uncomfortable with the focus on removing statues as part of BLM. In part because it just leads on to so many other intractable questions. (Should we destroy statues or put them in museums, or just attach additional narrative plaques to them; what about street signs; what about the names of various docks; the names of various buildings?)

But my main concern is that all those debates about statues etc gives the racists an excuse to divert attention away from the core of BAME people's grudges – the disgusting prejudice and discrimination they suffer in the UK and elsewhere. So we argue about statues instead of social injustices.

I detest racism with every fibre of my body.

Back on topic (!), as Sunday gets nearer, I'm finding myself surprisingly eager to watch the game and see that other lot trounced. It might only delay the final outcome of the Premier League but I can dream.

Alasdair Jones
97 Posted 19/06/2020 at 16:21:22
Getting back to the subject of Lyndon's post, the return of Premier League football, the outcome of the first two games seemed to result in a very mixed bag of views in the press the following day.

The Telegraph on Thursday morning reported on the two games. Eleven paragraphs were written about the Villa v Sheff Utd game, three of which purported to reflect the action on the pitch. The rest was opinion/commentary on the failure of the goal-line technology, Chris Wilders views on the same (the club are now threatening legal action!), and the implications of the result for both teams. Well, I can see why the space was filled in this way.

In a footnote article on Sky's presentation of the empty stadium match, the writer observed that Sky's ability for hype was tested by the game, and he wondered aloud after 90 mins if he would have been better off watching something streamed from Netflix.

I then compared that style of reporting with that in the 1960s. On 3 October 1964, Everton played out a 1-1 draw at home to West Ham, a match that RH Williams described as having as much dramatic impact as Waiting for Godot. Nevertheless, the remaining 7 paragraphs of his report were all about the game.

Confronted with similar matches today, most of the modern football writers and media-based commentators lapse into opinion about the manager's position, the clubs ambitions and how they will or will not be fulfilled etc. The action on the day, good or bad remains almost an afterthought.

Sky news plumbed the depth's of useless reporting in their news bulletin at 10pm on Wednesday evening. Standing outside Villa Park, the reporter advised us all about the welcome return of football, the choice of crowd noise or not, available to viewers, the empty car park, where Sheff Utd got changed to ensure social distancing, etc, etc. She then referred to the VAR/ Goal-line technology gaff with the action relayed to us.

The result? No mention. I got that from BBC's football web page!

As to the Manchester City v Arsenal game, that was the subject of a more interesting report by Jason Burt the Telegraph's Chief Football Correspondent. He, for the most part, focused on describing for you the action. More like the old days, as some might say.

For my part it is, as with many on this site, very unlikely I would switch on to watch a game in an empty stadium. That allied to the prevailing poor standards of refereeing and hapless technology does not inspire. In my wildest dreams, I never thought the game would sink to this.

Kevin Molloy
98 Posted 19/06/2020 at 16:32:25
I do think that there are people behind the public demonstrations who are cynically manipulating events and situations for their own ends. BLM is currently very difficult to oppose, who would object to such a statement? However, the proposals this particular organisation has to remedy our current societal ills would be unpalatable to many people if examined closely.

It seems to me that a pile on is deliberately created after an event and a momentum is created which rides on the back of a particular person or injustice to force through policies which under normal circumstances would not win popular support.

This is a tactic, not just used by BLM, but also by Extinction Rebellion. It's not random that this movement is led by an adolescent with Asperger's. As a result, it makes the movement a very hard target to push back on.

Same with trans rights, and Starbucks putting an adolescent child in their adverts (just think of the poor vulnerable children) and again public scrutiny to some very dodgy policies is wrongfooted and undermined...

Don Alexander
99 Posted 19/06/2020 at 17:58:14
Good thread this, moving beyond football.

To me, we as a country need to realise that racism has been an integral part of post WW2 British governments.

Government documents, released as decades passed, reveal it to be so. Churchill imposed orders on labour exchange employees in the early 50's requiring them to secretly note the percentage of non-white job seekers, so worried was he about the influx of non-whites. Bizarrely he accepted whites from former European enemies without question.

There's way more leading most recently to Theresa May's deplorable Windrush racism.

If I was black or Asian I'd kick-off about this and I'm glad to see so many whites join in.

Yes, there's always an extremist element attaching itself to democratic protest but that shouldn't in any way detract from the worthy ambition of the rational protest, in my opinion.

Prof David Olusoga's very recent BBC1 documentary, "Windrush, Racism and the Hostile Environment" is worth watching in my opinion.

Dave Brierley
100 Posted 19/06/2020 at 18:00:07
Declan @82

Spot on pal. It's almost like reading The Guardian. The 'wokerati' are alive, well and on ToffeeWeb. I feel humbled to be amongst such fine people.

Brian Wilkinson
101 Posted 19/06/2020 at 18:10:36
Good post that, Kevin @98.
Eric Paul
102 Posted 19/06/2020 at 20:37:55
Holgate, Bernard, Richarlison and Baines – what is the connection / difference?

A serious question.

Brent Stephens
103 Posted 19/06/2020 at 21:13:01
Roy Keane sounds pissed at half time.
Peter Neilson
104 Posted 19/06/2020 at 21:25:48
Roy can't accept the temerity of a team beating the mighty United. He has 3 months of bottled up aggression. It's going to show.
Brian Wilkinson
105 Posted 19/06/2020 at 21:45:16
Eric, Holgate does no have a letter n in his surname, is that it.
James Flynn
106 Posted 19/06/2020 at 21:49:41
I cannot see a reason for De Gea to still be called one of the best keepers in the world. There's nothing special about him.
Eric Paul
107 Posted 19/06/2020 at 21:54:35
Brian, are you sure the vowels in your Christian name are the right way round?
David Woodworth
108 Posted 20/06/2020 at 16:14:21
Kevin @98, So true.

People, including a lot who post here believe everything the BBC and Sky News spout.

Before the demo last week, Khan, that nasty little man, had already wound up the local council estate blacks by saying lots of far-right nutters were coming.

The majority of these far-right nutters were ex-servicemen who came to protect the monuments, and were treated by the Khan-run police as criminals

BLM is being manipulated by Antifa, and others. Some on here who go on about far-right radicals causing the problems are ignorant numpties.

Paul Tran
109 Posted 20/06/2020 at 16:55:29
Just glad I live up here in the Highlands. No demos, no fighting, no breaking social distancing and no phony culture wars. Up here, we look for 'antifa' and 'wokerati' in the dictionary.
Mike Gaynes
110 Posted 20/06/2020 at 17:45:25
David #108, congratulations on your own qualification for Numpty of the Year.

I can't imagine the UK is all that different from the US, where the organized right-wing violence is well-documented and causing far more problems than anything from the political left. Our "ignorant numpties" include Trump's own terrorism intelligence directorate and the Department of Homeland Security. While our right-wing Bleach Boy and his cadre are trying to blame everything on Antifa (like you and Kevin Molloy), his own experts are warning of far right terrorists using the BLM protests as cover for their own bloody activities:

The DHS just sent out alerts to police departments all over the country to warn of organized white supremacist and "Boogaloo" groups. Those alerts did not even mention Antifa -- probably because of all the people who have been arrested for violent or terror crimes during this three weeks of tumult, not one has turned out to be Antifa. Even most of the looters and arsonists turned out to be opportunistic criminals and independent troublemakers with no Antifa connections.

Meanwhile, right-wing extremists and self-styled militia (the UK has them too) have ambushed and murdered two police officers in California, shot a BLM protester in New Mexico, planned a mass killing of black protesters in Texas (the FBI stopped it) and showed up with combat weapons to protect statues in Pennsylvania. 700 heavily armed "counter-protesters" invaded a tiny Ohio village on motorcycles to shut down a BLM demonstration by a couple dozen locals.

The cure for "ignorant numptiness" is to get accurate information. You and Kevin should give that a try.

Paul Tran
111 Posted 20/06/2020 at 18:06:22
Best thing to do, Mike, is focus on both 'bleach boys', as you put it. Focus on the policies, the slow responses to crises, the governmental law-breaking, the bypassing of parliament to make unworkable laws, the general dishonesty.

Everything else is a welcome distraction that only helps the 'bleach boys'.

I'm only commenting on the above, that's what really matters.

Mike Gaynes
112 Posted 20/06/2020 at 19:34:11
Hey PT, is Boris not a natural blond? I thought he was.

Trump bleaches himself platinum after a lifetime of dark brown. It's a comb-over coiff worthy of a 1960s professional wrestler.

Kevin Molloy
113 Posted 20/06/2020 at 19:45:41

I don't think Jay mentioned Antifa. What was it about my post that you take issue with? I'm not denying racism exists in the UK and especially in the US. Of course I'm not. My concerns are that, in the UK, a whole raft of measures are currently being proposed which is in danger of being bulldozed through with little debate.

The organisation in charge of the campaign has as its stated aims the overthrow of capitalism and the nuclear family. It has led to panic across our culture, with the withdrawal of Fawlty Towers, the proposed withdrawal of cultural relics across the country.

These are tricky subjects, and I am nervous about the febrile atmosphere in which things are being decided. My concerns though should not be interpreted as an indication that I am relaxed about racists, the opposite is true.

Andrew Ellams
114 Posted 20/06/2020 at 20:06:58
David Woodworth, the majority of those racist thugs were not ex servicemen, although there were a lot of Walts in army surplus gear playing let's pretend.
Frank McGregor
115 Posted 20/06/2020 at 20:23:48
Mike Gaynes #110,

Congratulations on your Fake News award from CNN.

I don't believe the 2 New York attorneys who threw Molotov Cocktails into a New York police car, namley Colinford Mattis and Urooj Raham, were white extremists.

I believe the facts do not support your article.

Ron Marr
116 Posted 20/06/2020 at 23:01:46
The Bleached One is having a rally in Tulsa this evening. I wonder if his fans are going to take Howard Stern's suggestion and toast the Bleached One with a cup of disinfectant?
Si Cooper
117 Posted 20/06/2020 at 23:12:20
Kevin Molloy (98) – I'm pretty sure Greta Thunberg has no official role in Extinction Rebellion, so you are free to push back on that organisation as much as you like, as if you were ever likely to let it get in your way.

I think the climate change activists get plenty of push back, much of it unreasonable and insulting like passive aggressively referring to ‘an adolescent with Asperger's'.

Jeff Spiers
118 Posted 21/06/2020 at 07:03:44
I have posted a few articles recently on this forum, feel free to browse. Poverty, racial, social problems will never be totally eradicated. WHY, you will scream, and rightly so.

An event I attended, laden with all walks of society, opened my eyes. Again, read my posts. I was appalled at the amount of food and drink slewn all over the place. Glasses smashed into outdoor aquariums. I took it up with a prick who clearly was enjoying this.

"Fuck off back to Liverpool, you bin-dippers should be used to this. Anyway, the peasants will clean it up," he snarled. The way these self-righteous pricks treated the waitresses and bar staff was vile. The owner just shrugged his shoulders, "It happens all the time," he said.

This prick low-life and his middle-class mates decided to give me a history lesson on how inner city scum should solve their problems. Basically, let them eat cake.

These people are the real scum. They will block any chance of urban regeneration, keep the poor, poor. Mummy and Daddy will make sure of that. Don't want them bettering themselves.

None of this backlash surprised me. The manager, for what morale support I gave him, thanked me. I didn't resort to violence, which any one of us would surely have had difficulty holding back. I was proud, angry and sad. My heart went out to the staff, they can't walk away.

The French Revolution, just to mention one, no fucking wonder. I'm in my late sixties and, I genuinely fear the future for our children. My friends be strong and stay healthy. Thanks.

Kevin Molloy
119 Posted 21/06/2020 at 09:22:28
Si, fair enough, let's call her the unofficial spearhead of the climate change movement. And in referring to push-back, I wasn't thinking so personally. I was thinking of mainstream politicians, and the lack of scrutiny given to the current climate change proposals and carbon zero.

I'm also inclined to think you've rather proved my point, there is a distinct whiff of "Fancy having a go at a young girl with Asperger's" to your post. And I'm not. I'm criticising as a tactic putting such a vulnerable person as the figurehead (brutally effective though it has been to date).

Jeff Spiers
120 Posted 21/06/2020 at 20:33:55
Slightly off topic, but seriously. Can any one explain 1 Why they 've changed the guard at Buckingham palace (forgive the pun) from soldiers to sailors? 2 Why have the windows been boarded up at said residence? 3 Why demonstrators can en masse but football supporters cannot? Cheers

Eddie Dunn
123 Posted 27/06/2020 at 09:12:45
I read some articles on Unherd, one of which is by Paul Embury. I don't agree with all of his views by any means, but the piece is interesting and highlights how easy it is to put a black square up on Instagram (as I have done myself) and then forget the whole BLM issue.

Enough for most to box-tick, confirm that they are not racist, and move on. Then he goes on to discuss the reaction from all-and-sundry towards the banner at Man City. Worth a read (in my opinion). "Who dares resist the thought police" Unherd.
Andrew Clare
125 Posted 27/06/2020 at 09:17:02
It's a strange world we are living in today. People ignore the facts and expert advice whether it be about political decisions or deadly viruses. Money seems to be the only important thing in this world.

We have a lunatic in the White House, James Bond type villains running various countries, and a bumbling, privileged fool governing the UK.The popular press in the UK brainwashing the public and people preaching hatred. No wonder nature is fighting back.

Despite all of this, the EPL resumes. Money money money!

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