Football to return when it is ''safe and appropriate''

Friday, 3 April, 2020 352comments  |  Jump to last
Clubs to discuss wage cuts or deferrals

Updated The Premier League and its member clubs are due to hold further talks today to discuss strategies on how the 2019-20 season might be concluded with no end to the COVID-19 crisis in sight.

It was agreed on Wednesday by the top flight's governing body, the English Football League and representatives of the game's players and managers that the season cannot resume until it is "safe and appropriate to do so", and the presumptive restart timeframe has been moved out again, albeit with no firm date.

Originally pencilled in for tomorrow, the earliest date on which top level football matches might restart was pushed out to 30th April and it has been agreed that that is now unrealistic.

In a letter sent to all members across Europe, Uefa have proposed resuming games in July and August now that both the European Championships and the Olympic Games have been moved back a year. In that instance, the beginning of next season would be delayed and the 2020-21 campaign possibly truncated as a result.

In the meantime, the issue of players' wages has come front and centre, with clubs now due to hold talks with their squads about the possibility of either taking voluntary pay cuts up to 30% or to accept deferred wages to help the game get past the coronavirus shutdown.

The Premier League issued a statement this afternoon acknowledging that the season will not resume at the beginning of May and that the restart date is "under constant review with all stakeholders.

"[T]here is a combined objective for all remaining domestic league and cup matches to be played, enabling us to maintain the integrity of each competition. However, any return to play will only be with the full support of Government and when medical guidance allows."

The statement went on to say:

In the face of substantial and continuing losses for the 2019/20 season since the suspension of matches began, and to protect employment throughout the professional game, Premier League clubs unanimously agreed to consult their players regarding a combination of conditional reductions and deferrals amounting to 30 per cent of total annual remuneration. This guidance will be kept under constant review as circumstances change. The League will be in regular contact with the PFA and the union will join a meeting which will be held tomorrow between the League, players and club representatives.

Discussions also took place regarding financial relief for clubs in the short term and while there is no single solution, measures are to be put in place to immediately deal with the impact of falling cash flow. Critically, the League unanimously voted to advance funds of £125 million to the EFL and National League as it is aware of the severe difficulties clubs throughout the football pyramid are suffering at this time.

A joint statement from the Premier League, EFL, LMA and PFA from Wednesday read:

"Senior representatives from the PFA, Premier League, EFL and LMA met today and shared a constructive meeting regarding the challenges facing the game as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

"The meeting reiterated that the overriding priority is the health and well-being of the nation - including that of players, coaches, managers, club staff and supporters - and everyone agreed football must only return when it is safe and appropriate to do so."

The moving target and the likelihood that either the season will need to extend beyond the end of June, when many contracts are due to expire, at the least or be shelved altogether means that there are some complicated financial implications at stake.

No decisions have yet been made on deferring players' wages, the possibility of further furloughs of non-playing staff, or what will happen with regard to the massive television broadcast contracts should the season be scrapped without the remaining 90-odd matches taking place.

Newspaper reports suggest that while the notion of scrapping the 2019-20 season isn't yet under consideration, the Premier League is seeking "crisis talks" with Sky and BT in the UK over £300m worth of lost revenue that would result of those outstanding fixtures never take place, even behind closed doors. Another £450m would be lost on the overseas rights and that would require separate negotiations if what is being described as the "worst case" scenario comes to pass.

Worldwide, the number of reported cases passed the one million mark yesterday, with almost 3,000 people in the United Kingdom having died already from the illness caused by the novel coronavirus.

Those numbers continue to increase and have necessitated a nationwide lockdown where residents have to remain at home as much as possible and refrain from meeting in groups or conducting any business that isn't essential.

It is three weeks now since the football season was suspended as the pandemic spread in Britain.

Original article published 01/04/2020  

Reader Comments (352)

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Brian Wilkinson
1 Posted 01/04/2020 at 20:56:53
Robert, I cannot find it now but sure it was the BBC website earlier.
Patrick McFarlane
2 Posted 01/04/2020 at 21:26:32
Brian, I found this in a Telegraph report on today's news.

...while the governing body's executive committee has agreed to relax some parts of its Financial Fair Play rules that limit losses clubs can incur, saying “exceptional circumstances necessitate some specific interventions”. There is, for example, no longer a need to provide financial reports due to the “ongoing extraordinary events”.

Patrick McFarlane
3 Posted 01/04/2020 at 21:55:57
According to the Daily Mirror - The Chair of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Julian Knight said about the current situation regarding Premier League players lack of sacrifice on their salaries:

“It sticks in the throat. This exposes the crazy economics in English football and the moral vacuum at its centre.”

Which probably echoes many supporters views on the subject but proposed caps or reductions haven't gone down too well with the PFA who said in a letter to their members:

The PFA requested to see each club's financial situation before we offer advice to players on whether to accept the terms offered. "Before accepting or signing any paperwork from your club, it is vitally important that squads collectively discuss proposals with the PFA.”

Premier League set for civil war with PFA over wage cuts amid "moral vacuum" accusations

Could football be facing possible industrial action if an amicable agreement can't be reached?

Brian Wilkinson
4 Posted 01/04/2020 at 23:30:19
If this carries on, then I can see the FFP being put back a year.

If that is the case, then Walcott, Schneiderlin, Niasse, Martina, Bolasie, Sandro and Besic will all be off the wage bill by June 2021, some before then.

If you add the stadium naming rights, if they get the go-ahead before next June, then Carlo is going to have one hell of a transfer kitty.

None of this matters at the moment, but there is a massive light at the end of the tunnel for Everton and its supporters.

Dale Rose
5 Posted 02/04/2020 at 00:46:34
Life without football really is shite. On the plus side I found the Cindy Crawford workout video and I've now got a right arm like Arnold Shwarzenegger.
Derek Thomas
6 Posted 02/04/2020 at 01:09:34
My heart goes out to all those poor people locked down in their mansions doing it tough on sometimes less than £80,000 pounds a fuckin week.

Have a word with yourselves you over paid wasters.

Derek Knox
7 Posted 02/04/2020 at 01:58:59
Dale @5, you want to get a grip of yourself, young man... Ooops, you already have done; try the other hand to balance your Arnold Schwarzenegger appearance. :-) :-)
Karl Masters
8 Posted 02/04/2020 at 02:07:27
I think a ToffeeWeb Poll on whether players should take a voluntary pay cut is a must.

Much as we love these guys (well some of them) you can't tell me that somebody like Morgan Schneiderlin can't exist on 䀌k a week instead of 𧴰k if he had a 20% pay cut.

I can see the Clubs effectively moving pre-season to now and rolling the start of next season straight on to the end of this one. Players might well argue that means they will still play as many games, and that may end up being true, but perhaps they need to think about how privileged they really are.

They may well also ask why other high-paid members of society, Individual Sportsmen or Entertainers aren't also taking a pay cut. That's also a fair question, but ultimately they are overpaid for what they do, they should know that, and in Football you rely on the Fans' goodwill and support more than other Sports I believe. There is no logic to following a football club, it's based on emotion. Ruin that emotional bond with the fans and what are you left with? Not much really.

If Lionel Messi can give up 70% of his wages, why can't Premier League and Championship players offer to give up 20%?

Karl Masters
9 Posted 02/04/2020 at 02:12:53
I can just hear Gordon Taylor's irritating, whiney voice now chuntering our the excuses, primarily revolving around, “It's not fair. Why just footballers?” etc.

Because, Gordon, you are missing the point!!

Bob Parrington
10 Posted 02/04/2020 at 03:18:09
Karl @8,

I'm with you on this but a 20% cut from such high wages is nowhere near enough. I liked Messi's comment about the Barca players suggesting a 70% cut would be acceptable. The Premier League players have to get real! They'd all still be in mega comfort and that's without touching their savings.

The Football hierarchy should stop fannying around and make some clear decisions. At least they've reached the point of stating that football won't return until "it is safe and appropriate" to do so. OMG what an outcome after months of deliberation???

Bobby Mallon
11 Posted 02/04/2020 at 03:51:57
All football clubs should just tell all the players and managers and their staff that they to will have to go cap in hand to the government and get the 80% wage up to � per month.

What makes them any more special? They are all just employees of a business.

Eric Myles
12 Posted 02/04/2020 at 05:55:31
Sounds like they are determined to finish the season so our neighbours can get their elusive title.
Jeff Spiers
13 Posted 02/04/2020 at 06:51:36
Eric@12. Spot on. Money doing the talking here, not people's health. Greedy shower of bastards. As for the shite...
John Keating
14 Posted 02/04/2020 at 07:37:19
There has been the odd one or two Premier League players who have made some sort of contribution during this time, however, the great majority are taking the piss.

The meetings these idiots running the game should be discussing what to do with the vast amounts of money the players are made to forego.

When so many people are losing their livelihood or at best seeing their income significantly reduced to see a selected few doing or contributing sweet fuck-all is galling.

Why can't they subsidise the non-playing staff at the least?

Darren Hind
15 Posted 02/04/2020 at 07:46:26
The longer this goes on. The more disenchanted I become with premier league footballers. What sort of people leave lower paid staff, who help create their little bubble, to fend for themselves in time of crisis ?

If these greedy fuckers don't voluntarily give up a huge percentage of their wages. We should boycott them.

BTW Hats off to Eddie Howe. Being one of the lower earners among premier league managers didnt stop him being first in line to take a cut. I'd like to see Carlo follow suit. If the worlds most successful manager can take a pay cut, it leaves the others with very few excuses not to do the same.

I never thought I could live without football. Who did ? but here we are. The world is still turning
If these players and managers don't start acting like decent human beings. They will kill the goose which laid their golden egg.

I can see football fans in their droves turning away from these greedy fuckers and going back to grass roots

John Keating
16 Posted 02/04/2020 at 08:11:06
Not French we are lagging behind the Jocks but in contracts we may well be.

Hearts asked their players to take a 50% pay cut.
Steven Naismith, star man by the way, immediately agreed. Their manager waived his salary. The rest of the squad told the club to piss off.

The Club gave them until yesterday to agree to the cut or their salaries would be deferred, I take it that means stopped.

There appears to be a clause in SPL contracts that give clubs the right, in certain circumstances, to implement this.

It will be interesting to read the outcome.

Everton players, as should all PL players, should give up a massive proportion of their salaries by their own volition.
If they don't they should all be named and bloody shamed.
Once this is all over, like shops and businesses who have abused this sad situation, there should be some sort of retribution

Martin Berry
17 Posted 02/04/2020 at 08:26:14
Cant see the season re starting in the next three months.
Perhaps they could resume the remaining games in September and take place of the new season.
Space them out to maybe one game very two weeks, this would allow for the crowds and emergency services to ease back in, also they would finish Feb 2021 and allow a break for some international friendlies again testing the water before the Euros in June.
As for players taking a pay cut, there should be no backroom staff etc being left without salaries when high earners can help them out, the Prem seem to have its own financial bubble, well
its about to burst !.
Colin Glassar
18 Posted 02/04/2020 at 08:57:53
I haven't missed the football one bit. Ever since Moshiri took over I've been more and more disillusioned with our recruitment, playing style and results.

The fact that we are paying massive wages to wasters like Tosun, Walcott, Iwobi, Schneiderlin and now I must add Sigurdsson to that list makes me sick to the stomach.

In times of crisis when retail staff, delivery drivers and NHS staff etc... are risking their lives for a pittance and these wankers (with some exceptions) are proudly showing off their fully equipped mansions on social media, while refusing to lose any of their benefits, makes me hope the whole rotten, corrupt structure of the EPL comes crashing down!!

I'd love to see some of these prima donnas stacking shelves in Asda one day.

Ray Roche
19 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:12:09

You say that you didn't think you could live without football. I felt the same. I thought that it would leave such a void in my life that the days would seem pretty empty, with nothing to look forward to at the weekend, no trip to Goodison, no match to settle down and watch on tv with a glass of red in hand. But the longer this goes on, and the more we can see the greed and avarice, the selfish antics of mercenary, millionaire footballers, the breast beating, hand wringing display from “football people “ who's main concern is money, and hanging on to it, the more I realise that football today is not the football I fell in love with when I was little. I still love Everton, always will, but I don't love football anymore. How can you when most of the players you cheer from the terraces clearly don't give a flying one for any of us?
To be honest, apart from seeing loved ones who are miles away, the thing I miss most now is going for a game of golf with my mates, and a coffee and some banter afterwards. I imagine that, countrywide, that I'm not the only one disenchanted with football now we see the level of greed and selfishness within. Football will kill itself.

Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:26:45
Since 1992 when the premier league started along with ridiculous high wages most players today have started on these outlandish payments, they are normal to them and they, mostly, think they are entitled to them, consequently they will not relinquish them easily. I hope they are in for a surprise and see how most fans look at the way they take this pay without realising how very lucky they are to be able to live the life they have.

There are obviously some players who know the score and can't believe the wages they are on, the only one I have ever heard say it, is Mata of Man.Unt, he said it only last season that he can't believe how privileged he is to be paid the wages he gets just for being a professional footballer.

I think the time has come for all sportsmen and especially footballers to realise the gravy train is coming for a long due overall and they will all have to come back down to earth.

Derek Thomas
21 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:38:37
Take a wage cut? won't happen. 70% wage cut ? definitely won't happen. I mean seriously, how can anyboby be expected to manage on only £30,000 a week.

We ought to be piling on to their twitter and Instagram feeds to alert them to the error if their ways.

Dan Nulty
22 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:39:41
I cannot believe that premier league footballers have let people who earn in a year not even a quarter of what they earn in a week be furloughed.

It is an absolute disgrace. I am ashamed that Everton players aren't leading the way with this either.

If Barcelona and Juventus players can do it then I do not understand why the Premier league players think they are immune and they would rather see people struggling to survive than perhaps take a reduction in their 100-500k per week wages.

I will never watch another Premier league game again.

Ray Roche
23 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:40:01
Let's hope so Dave. We could do with football shaking off agents too, like a dog shakes off fleas. How refreshing it would be to see the money siphoned off by agents ploughed back into grass roots football, decent pitches with grass cut regularly, comfortable changing rooms with good showers etc. Not mud patches covered in dog shit. I regularly visit Germany and some of the state owned facilities for local sides put the UK to shame. However, the facilities are not subjected to vandalism etc. like we often see here. But that's another argument altogether.
Tony Hill
24 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:43:39
I very much agree with Dave and others above. Let's hope that out of this awful situation we find a return to proper communal values, and to a full respect for dignified work which is done well and which is directed to the health and sanity of us all.
Colin Glassar
25 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:48:42
Good point Derek 21. I'm not on Instagram (banned from twitter) but I know a lot of footballers, managers, sports journos etc...are. Without being abusive, or threatening, I think people could make their feelings felt in a powerful, positive way.

These people need to know how obnoxious most of us feel about their flaunting of wealth and indifference to society as a whole. They share the planet with the rest of us so they should share the pain as well.

Derek Knox
26 Posted 02/04/2020 at 09:50:14
Ray @ 19, good post there, I think most of us have had the same realisation as yourself, we all miss the Football as such, but not the greed and immoral salaries that are connected with it.

Usually when anything major happens, as with this current pandemic, there is a stark reminder of how vulnerable we are as human beings. The good aspect is that people are prioritising life before anything else, and an appreciation of fellow human beings.

Hopefully we will come out of this stronger, and benefit from the lessons learnt, now whether that will extend to the footballers, when presumably there will be an end to this curse, will of course be a subject that remains to be seen.

Again hopefully we will have a game of golf when this is all over, take care, stay safe, a message I extend to everyone on TW, and people in general.

Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 02/04/2020 at 10:09:30
Good point Ray, hopefully society as a whole will start the fight back, against the little idiot thugs, who have got no respect for anything.

This thread is only going one way, and the fact that footballers have done nothing, only makes us realise we have been watching a phoney game for way to long.

Darren@15, first paragraph, bang on the money...How could any man earning a fortune, stand by and let the people who get paid a pittance, lose their jobs and do nothing about it?

Footballers, I remember being a young pro at Forest, when they won the league cup, and got £7000 a man bonus. The players had a party in a local wine-bar, and the bill was about two grand, and they were fucking fuming, especially because one of the young apprentices, got a couple of bottles of champagne, and was squirting it everywhere, even though this kid was Nottingham born, and absolutely loved Forest.

I remember arguing with a few first team players, telling them to get their fucking heads together, (it wasn't even an argument) because they were trying to get £50 off everyone who was at the party, even though the apprentice kids were only on £35 a week.

I remember telling them that it was a good job they never played for Everton, because if they did that bar bill would have been about ten grand because of me alone, and couldn't they see that Forest winning the cup obviously meant more to Sharpy, (the young apprentice) than it must have meant to themselves, which finally stopped some of the greedy bastards in their tracks.

Rob Halligan
28 Posted 02/04/2020 at 10:25:44
There are 20 premier league clubs, with a first team squad of about 25 players. That's about 500 players.Obviously, some earn more than others, so lets say, for just ONE WEEK, every single player donated £30k to the NHS, their own non playing staff, or whoever, that would come to a staggering £15M. Surely this would help the NHS / Government supply PPE and also help with testing for the virus. In fact, not surely, it WOULD help the NHS / Government.

When you read about some clubs cutting the wages of their non playing staff, and then asking the government to help by paying the retention scheme, is beyond belief.

I miss football as much as anyone, but FFS, the quicker we can find a vaccine to kill this disease, the quicker we can get back to normal everyday life, and the wages of these overrated players would go a long way to doing this.

Brian Wilkinson
29 Posted 02/04/2020 at 10:39:41
The talk of finishing the season, no matter what, reminds me of Randolph and Mortimer, the Duke's brothers in the film Trading Places at the end when he is shouting "Turn those machines back on!"

Seems the Premier League is heading the same way.

John Boswell
30 Posted 02/04/2020 at 10:43:41
Good morning to all ToffeeWebbers, I hope you are all keeping safe and well.

I must confess that I am surprised at the direction of this thread. There are two clear points of issue:

1. That Premier League footballers are vastly overpaid. 2. That said Premier League players should be giving a large chunk of their pay too support lower wage earners at their own club and to save their employer from financial difficulties.

I assume that this dialogue is being driven by the press, hmmm. I haven't bought a newspaper in many years so I am unsure of this but why attack greedy footballers? They are in the entertainment industry, they get paid disproportionately to regular workers, not their fault.

Equally if workers are having to survive on 80% of their regular wage while laid off, then it seems reasonable to me that the playing staff should receive a similar reduction in pay.

I am sure that there will be complex tax issues to be factored in and their trade union is looking after their interests, as it should be doing. This will no doubt delay an agreed outcome. I don't think that we should decry the players, when we do not know their position on this vexed subject.

Take care and stay safe, COYB.

Martin Reppion
31 Posted 02/04/2020 at 11:14:35
Following on from john #30.
A player on £100k per week foregoes 20% in line with minimum wage earners. That can pay around 50 of the lower earners their FULL wages. If all the first team squads in the top leagues did this, all the club employees could be paid and the balance, which would be substantial, could support local businesses, pubs, shops, car parks, taxis etc that are getting no income at all due to the loss of match day revenue.
It is time for some practical socialism here. EiTC is being rightly praised in the national media for tis work. It is now time for the People's club to lead the way.
Brian Harrison
32 Posted 02/04/2020 at 11:32:12
I listened to Glenn Johnson on Talksport a bit earlier saying leave it to the players and they will come together and decide how much each player should contribute. He said the players wouldn't take to kindly to authorities telling them what they had to do.

Well, I have to say we have seen very little response from hardly any Premier League players so far, and it just feels that they shouldn't need anybody to tell them what to do each squad should have got together and decided how each should contribute.

I don't know know how football will get back to normal, until a vaccine has been produced, as no football ground seats would qualify under the 2 metres safe distancing. But to be honest at this moment in time I am in no hurry to return to Goodison, I hope and suspect over the coming months my attitude will change.

Maybe if players do donate part of their salary to their fellow workers who have been put on furlough, then maybe if there is money left over maybe they could get in touch with the local Universities and laboratories who said yesterday they can produce many testing kits and there is no shortage of material to produce these kits. Then these kits could be distributed to our frontline NHS staff and care workers.

Now that would be a big statement from the Premier League players and it would make a massive difference and would definitely change people's current perception of our Premier League players.

Brian Williams
33 Posted 02/04/2020 at 11:40:34
I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask: If footballers should be expected to forego some of their wages should not other "highly paid" professionals do the same? Actors, TV personalities, pop stars, company directors, solicitors?

At what point do we say "Ok, you don't need to because you're not earning what we've decided is too much?"

Don't get me wrong, I was one of the first to suggest each Premier League club adopt a lower league club/s during the crisis and help them survive, but I'm just throwing it out there rather than the thread just going down one road and pointing out how selfish and overpaid the Premier League players are.

Are there, for instance, any really well paid Toffeewebbers who've foregone a percentage of their salary?

Derek Knox
34 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:07:45
Brian @ 33, good points you raised there mate, they are having a meeting today I believe, to further discuss that very topic.

As I see it in my limited capacity, there are three obstacles here, The Football League, who even IF they suggest that some financial deduction from players and Clubs me made by those who are in a position to do so.

Then there is the Players Union probably arguing that they are under an agreed Contract, and the present pandemic is none of their member's fault, and they are technically available to play, what they have been contracted for.

Then there are the individuals themselves, I don't believe, whether instructed or advised to, or not, nothing should prevent them from making a voluntary contribution, independent of any agent, union or League directive.

The only one I have heard of doing this was Steven Naismith at Hearts in Scotland, and he will always be remembered and respected by many for his unselfish actions. Not only at this moment in time but for his previous acts of unselfishness and benevolence, to those less fortunate.

I'm pretty sure that if any Premier or Championship Footballer had acted similarly to Steven Naismith we would have heard about it by now.

Patrick McFarlane
35 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:19:25
Of course most of the players are paid far too much and of course that isn't their fault, anybody in any walk of life would accept whatever they could get from their employer if their employer was generous enough to give it to them.

The clubs themselves are to blame, they have no inbuilt contingency plans for when circumstances alter and they certainly have no plans for times such as we have today.

As per usual the ordinary person is the first to suffer 'furlough' or a loss of job because they are an easy target and have very little power over their own destiny. Most footballers, however, have a great deal of power over their own destiny's they care not who pays their salaries, they care not for the shirt they wear, but they do know their own commercial value and have exploited it to the nth degree in the last decade.

If the players do 'give up' part of their wages who does this benefit? I'm not certain that the sacrifice will have a positive impact upon the ordinary club employee, of course lower down the pyramid it could help to keep the club viable but at the top end?

Perhaps the Government could impose a levy on players wages and redistribute that levy to the smaller clubs but I won't hold my breath.

Brian Williams
36 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:19:59
Derek. Naismith is outstanding in his approach to the less fortunate.
Tony Everan
37 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:34:19
Staff on minimum wage or close to it getting laid off or furloughed. At the same time, at the same clubs, players and managers raking in 𧴜 000 + per week regardless.

The staff and supporters of those clubs will not easily forget this. It will backfire on clubs that have their greedy heads stuck in the sand. It will cause division and weakness in those clubs for many years.

Supporters will know, when the chips are down, they are definitely not all in this together in any sense.

Michael Lynch
38 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:35:14
There's no more reason for them to take a pay cut now than there was a month ago. They were on stupid quid a week then, and they're on stupid quid a week now. No change really.

If they weren't embarrassed by their riches then, despite seeing the poverty, unemployment and deprivation around Goodison Park, why should they be now? If they weren't offering Doris the tea lady a share of their enormous wages then, why would they now?

My guess is we'll see token gestures – players dropping the odd ten grand a week and expecting the world to pat them on the head for their generosity. Personally I don't give a fuck whether they take a pay cut or not – they earn ludicrous sums whatever happens, but it doesn't stop me paying to watch them.

Doris can do one, her tea is crap anyway.

Colin Glassar
39 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:43:34
No one, be it footballers, actors, pop stars, captains of industry etc... will willingly give up a penny if they are not obliged to.

It's all a bit pie-in-the-sky to expect (the majority) the high earners to sacrifice their luxurious lifestyles. St Barts, St Tropez, Las Vegas etc... will just have to wait.

Anthony Dove
40 Posted 02/04/2020 at 12:48:12
Apart from all the other factors the players aren't actually playing. If those in the Premier League don't agree a significant pay cut, they can expect a serious backlash.

Hopefully one good thing that will come out of this mess will be real sea change in football economics, including a realistic level of players' salaries. I would have no problem with a salary cap.

Derek Cowell
41 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:19:03
I stopped going to the match years ago because I got a job which meant I had to work on most Saturdays. I was gutted at first after being a matchday regular. However, after a while, I got used to it and got out of the habit.

Subsequently, when I did go to the odd game, I found that I didn't really enjoy it. I was tense and the footy was mainly shite and I could see it for what it was as opposed to blindly following it.

Also, I felt that the entertainment on offer didn't justify the expense of a matchday. I go to British Superbike racing at Oulton Park and get a full day's high-quality entertainment from dedicated professional sportsmen consisting of about 10 races plus practice for about 㿊! In recent seasons, our overpaid prima donnas haven't even been trying!!

I have loved Everton since 1966 and will always be gutted when we lose but, when football begins again, I am going to be watching my local team, South Liverpool, for some grass-roots honesty and effort!

Mike Oates
42 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:25:44
We've let the game become a monster, we've craved for football to be shown, discussed, 24hrs a day and the people who rule, play, manage the game have enjoyed a life which the common man, cant even dream about, and doesn't enjoy, but puts up with as it serves his demand.

The players etc have become greedy, the clubs clamour for success, the fans demand it and the Media, Gambling, companies etc have supported it to increase their own revenues.

So we see Neymar getting a bonus of €375,000 per month to ensure he claps the fans and behaves himself, and all players getting paid to take an isotonic drink at half time and full time ……..

Yet as the Madrid Health Executive said last week - What type of society have we let develop when we have a huge shortage of nurses, doctors, many of who are losing their lives every day, on paltry salaries of €2000-3000 per month yet we pay our footballers €1,000,000 per month !!

Football has to crash, it's obscene.

Joe McMahon
43 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:26:27
Hats off to Eddie Howe, and as Darren says he certainly isn't one of the higher paid managers. I hope all the others follow.
Conn Prosser
44 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:27:14
Has anyone seen the plan submitted to the NRL in Australia to house the entire league's playing and coaching staff on an island off Brisbane and ferry the players to locked-down stadiums on the mainland so they can start their season?

I'm not saying this is, like, a good idea or anything. I just thought I'd pitch the idea for discussion - if it were to be replicated in England, how would that work? They've spec'd out the logistics and have said the 'lack of testing equipment' is 'not a problem'. I'm thinking Anglesey. The Orkneys?

Darren Hind
45 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:29:36
Tony @37

Is right. People will not forget. But that works both ways.

Its not too late for these people to redeem themselves. I think they could all be forgiven for underestimating the gravity of the situation a month ago.
If the Everton players came out now and said they were donating a sizeable percentage of their wages I would be very proud... but if they're going to do it, they really do need to hurry up.

We remember kindnesses as well as crass selfishness.

Naismith is a shining example. We may have already forgotten most of his performances as a player, but his actions as a human being towards the less fortunate will live long in the memory.

Jay Wood

46 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:29:46
For once, a government minister has come out and said something that hits the nail firmly on the head on this issue, as quoted by Patrick @ 3:

"It sticks in the throat. This exposes the crazy economics in English football and the moral vacuum at its centre.”

It's absurd - obscene, even - that ordinary Joes and Janes on very basic salaries are being furloughed or laid off by football clubs.

I can understand the need for clubs to 'realign' their finances in the current climate, but they are surely going about it arse about face by starting at the base, rather than the top, of their financial pyramid.

The immediate and most beneficial readjustment they can make is with ALL their highest earners and work their way down.

For some clubs it may determine the continuation of their very existence.

It's no easy task. Contracts are signed for a reason. We live in a dysfunctional capitalist society in which many people are not suitably rewarded for the contribution and benefits their work makes to wider society.

I very much doubt, once this is all over, that that particular world order is going to change any time soon, more's the pity.

It is no casual decision to forgo 20-40-60% of your salary no matter who you are.

Yes, many high-profile players are well-protected from such measures, but people like Steven Naismith are a very rare breed. He has always displayed a strong social conscience towards those less fortunate than himself.

As others mention, players are sharing 'fun' videos from their ivory towers of how they are 'coping' with self-isolation.

Some have expressed sympathy about how it is impacting on society at wide.

Many joined in the NHS applause.

What disappoints me most about this issue is that it's become almost a game of dare. Who is going to blink first? The various football governing bodies? The clubs? The players? The invested media outlets?

There seems to be an awful lot of meetings without any resolution on this and other issues.

But to me it comes down to each and every individual.

Why wait for an order from on high?

What's stopping any player (other than his agent - ahem!) from unilaterally showing solidarity with his club, its supporters, its essential and lower-paid staff, by offering HIMSELF to accept a salary cut/cap at this time?

Patrick McFarlane
47 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:34:46
Conn #44 I suspect most fans at the moment would gladly ferry the players to an Island location - but I'm not sure they'd be happy to see them return anytime soon - unless of course they respond positively to public opinion and make some real contributions to the communities they represent.
Christy Ring
48 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:41:53
It's absolutely shocking that clubs are reducing the pay of non-playing staff, where most probably earn in a year, what most players earn in a week. Where's the logic, hit the most vulnerable?
Patrick McFarlane
49 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:46:28
Just read a tweet by Alan Myers in which he reported:

The Belgian League has been cancelled due to the coronavirus.
They have decided that the current table is final, which means that Club Brugge as champions and AA Gent go into the pre-CL stage as runners-up. However this needs approval from FIFA General Assembly

This could be the test case which could have a domino effect on the rest of the European Leagues but the possibility of TV companies suing the Premier League in particular, may muddy the waters somewhat.

Derek Cowell
50 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:54:13
Patrick at 49. Hasn't a precedent already been set by the FA in relation to all those non-league clubs, some of whom had actually won their leagues! I fail to see how the top leagues can be treated any differently as it is all just one big tiered pyramid!

If my view is naive and it is okay for the FA to treat richer clubs differently and there is a legal or procedural reason for it, then I am more than willing to be educated on it, so I don't keep banging on about something which is wrong.

Dave Abrahams
51 Posted 02/04/2020 at 13:56:18
Every player should have the integrity to make their own minds up whether to take a cut in wages or not.

Integrity is intellectual honesty, the difference between right and wrong, every normal person over the age of five has integrity, so if the players don't know what they should do they are turning a very blind and selfish eye to this crisis.

Patrick McFarlane
52 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:00:56
Derek #50 I agree with your premise that a precedent has been set by the FA with regards to the lower league sides, but the Belgian League although not one of the big five European Leagues is still big and important enough to shape how others might make their decisions in the near future. We all know that the most important aspect is the financial impact that any decision has and that it has very little to do with what is considered to be right or wrong.
Brent Stephens
53 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:04:43
Conn #44 - South Georgia Island.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
54 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:05:19

Perhaps the best for a player is not to take a pay cut, because that requires a contractual agreement with the employer (club). The club dare not do it because that means a player could walk away under breach of contract. The player may not want to do it because that sets a precedent for the future.

But maybe the fair solution is - OK everyone, I am on £70,000 per week, I am going to donate £60,000 a week to. . . . . charity/local hospital/club staff on reduced wages.

That way
a. the rich are in it as well
b. no precedents for the future
c. the player comes out smelling of roses because, hey, we forget he is still living off £500,000 per year.

You somehow feel the Everton squad of mid-late noughties would have been one of the first to do this with the likes of Carsley, Neville, Cahill, etc.

Brent Stephens
55 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:07:37
Phil - and tax deductible, at the higher rate, through Gift Aid?!
Dennis Stevens
56 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:11:52
The PFA, imo, could & should have taken a lead role in co-ordinating a response from the players & then presenting an agreed offer for salary sacrifice across the game, or at least the upper reaches of it.
Shaun Robinson
57 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:22:59
Watching that Sunderland thing on Netflix last night and a statistic came up regarding wages. The average weekly wage in the Premier League is 㿬,000, Championship is 㾺,000 and then it said League One is JUST ٠,000 per week. Even taking out the top rate tax, I think they'll get by.
Steve Johnston
58 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:28:15
18 - Colin Glassar

Nail on head mate.

Jay Wood

59 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:30:26
Phil @ 54.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, Phil.

As I said in my own post, it's a game of dare. Who is going to blink first and topple the first domino and set the precedent?

ALL the invested parties have very sharp lawyers and accountants behind them.

They could ALL make donations themselves without the imposition of a set percentage salary cut.

As Brent @ 55 mentions, Gift Aid is one way to 'soften' the blow whilst looking good to the public.

There are ways. What clearly is missing is the will.

And moral consciousness.

Conor McCourt
60 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:38:53
Unfortunately, players and indeed managers don't really care about the communities they are supposed to represent. Fundamentally it is for them about self-preservation, as has been shown amidst this crisis.

The fact Eddie Howe was the first and only so far to offer a voluntary wage cut didn't surprise me one bit. Eddie took that club from nothing, built it to what it is, and his hands are all over that club. Apparently he delegates little and is like an old-fashioned manager in that he's the heartbeat of them. His sacrifice is as much about leadership and responsibility and a shared journey. You get the feeling with him that it's not just a job or career path which is unique in the Premier League.

The majority of players and managers will only take pay cuts kicking and screaming and will instead hope to get away with the obligatory PR exercises and token gestures. I'm really delighted by our club's behaviour with EitC being a shining light to all Premier League clubs. We can only hope it's highly earning staff whether executives, management or players will follow its lead.

Paul Tran
61 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:40:34
A pay cut would cause contractual issues. Surely the PFA could come up with a scheme where players donate a suggested percentage of their salary?
From then, it would be up to the individual what they do. Remember that many top players have their own foundations and give genrously already.

Personally I'm wary of the clamour to impel individuals to bail out a government that is doing precisely what many of us said they would do.

Weren't they 'the will of the people'? Or have 'the people' finally opened their eyes and deflected their anger onto a different group of 'others'?

Dan Nulty
62 Posted 02/04/2020 at 14:48:37
Brian 33, unfortunately, most of those whom you name as should be giving up their salaries as well will not be paid as they are not working during this time. Solicitors will be earning less in a year than most Premier League footballers earn in a week.

Absolute disgrace this.

Barcelona and Juventus players can do it, and much more quickly, so for people above to be using tax and trade unions and contract breaches as excuses need to look at themselves in the mirror.

This is purely about being a good, caring human being and is a prime example of the rot that has torn through the Premier League and the cancer that are their agents. I still don't understand why Fifa, Uefa and the leagues have not come together to regulate agents properly, cap their earnings, stop clubs paying agents completely as they are solely acting for the players and themselves and not in the best interest of the clubs.

I am so disappointed and I hope this changes football for good.

Jay Wood

63 Posted 02/04/2020 at 15:16:15
Paul @ 61.

"Personally I'm wary of the clamour to impel individuals to bail out a government that is doing precisely what many of us said they would do."

That is a sentiment I can wholeheartedly agree with.

For football fans, players and their inflated salaries make an easy target in crisis such as this.

What needs to be more under the microscopic is the very fabric of politics, 'Democracy' in particular, and capitalism and the 'free market' (which is anything but free) and what happy bed fellows they make.

How would supporters feel if, as expressed by many, highly paid sports men and women DID accept pay cuts, or contribute to the national treasury, only for the government to then bail out the likes of Richard Branson's Virgin Airlines as he requested?

The man who wasted no time in asking staff to take 8 weeks unpaid leave as soon as things got wobbly with the aviation industry? The great irony being some of those self-same staff came out in DEFENCE of Branson, saying they would do 'anything' to save HIS company!

How does that old time music hall number go?

'It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor wot gets the blame
It's the rich wot gets the pleasure
Ain't it all a bloomin' shame?'

Chris Williams
64 Posted 02/04/2020 at 15:25:50
Jay and Paul,

Totally concur. Especially about Branson, who sued NHS for millions in the recent past. There's a petition on line asking the Government not to support him.

Any bets?

Mike Hughes
65 Posted 02/04/2020 at 15:26:00
Colin#18 and Ray #19

I've felt that way for the past 4 or 5 years.

Football is increasingly out-of-touch with its traditional core base; is over-exposed in the media (previews, reviews and general air-headed chats and podcasts); has too many hangers-on and parasites (bloody Robbie Savage and even his mother on the radio); too many statistics and the bores who feed on that; and has become quite corporate and soulless in my opinion.

Then there's the banal interview post match with the classic, “How pleased / disappointed are you with that win / loss?”

Nigel Pearson when at Leicester is one of the few I've seen get hacked-off with that kind of question.

I'll always be an Evertonian but, when people use words like ‘brand' and ‘product' around the game, it loses its appeal.

Stephen Brown
66 Posted 02/04/2020 at 15:37:20
I think that something good might come out of this terrible situation. These absurd wages to footballers have to stop!

Let's hope as a society we rise against it and start to value what's good instead. The ‘ low skilled' cleaners and care workers are now more important than your Morgan Schneiderlins of this world!

I for one will also not forget the behaviour of Tim Martins, Mike Ashley, and Richard Branson! Greed and arrogance!!!

Footballers just have to take a pay cut whilst this goes on! They have no option! If they had any sort of PR sense, they would be doing it voluntarily. If they do not I think, the house of cards will tumble very quickly!

I know this has been said before but, if it wasn't Liverpool who were to suffer, the Premier League would have been cancelled a few weeks ago! Wimbledon, Champions League, all other football, even the Olympics has gone but the Premier League is too important apparently and has to finish!!

I adore Everton as we all do but I'm not sure I can condone much more of this from the so-called greatest league in the world!

Chris Williams
67 Posted 02/04/2020 at 15:48:35
Sadly, Premier League football is but one symptom of the appalling malaise now affecting many societies, embodied by this government in the UK, and by other egregious examples across the world.
Brian Harrison
68 Posted 02/04/2020 at 16:29:53
I, like many, am really disappointed that the players of every Premier League club didn't do something to help the communities they represent. They didn't need to reduce their wages, all they had to do was the captain of each club to set up an account and all the squad pay a percentage of their wages. That way, it wouldn't be altering any contractual agreements, and the money could have been paid to whoever needed it.

But most of my anger is directed at this government. I posted 2 weeks ago that the country which had been most successful fighting the coronavirus was South Korea. How had they been successful by testing and tracing, within weeks of knowing about the virus, they had tested 290,000 and traced all contacts of anybody who had the virus. They had also established an app that everybody with a phone could download, and it would alert them if they were in or entering a high-risk area.

Yet here we see members of the government saying that all the protective equipment has been delivered to all frontline services, not true. They said a week ago that we would shortly up the testing capability to 25,000 so far I think it's not up to 10,000 and still struggling to test every NHS worker on the frontline. Also initially, there was talk of a herd immunity; thankfully that has now been shelved.

Apart from a vaccine to lessen the effect of the virus or a vaccine that will kill off the virus, we need to massively roll out a testing and tracing policy. A government spokesman the other day claimed the reason they hadn't been able to produce enough testing kits was because there was a shortage of an element for the kit. Yet yesterday a guy from one of the top labrotories said there wasn't a shortage and they could produce the kits as soon as the government gave them an order to produce them.

Please make sure if you can you get out at 8:00 pm and applaud not only our NHS workers but all who are working to try and keep the country going.

Brian Williams
69 Posted 02/04/2020 at 16:37:46
Of course there's a distinct possibility that numerous players have donated thousands and done some great things during this pandemic but would prefer to do it and not shout it from the rooftops.
Ray Roche
70 Posted 02/04/2020 at 16:52:04
Good, intelligent post Brian @68

There are several posts above which mention 'contracts' and how the Clubs could fall foul of these 'contracts' by reducing the players' wages.

Are these the same contracts that are regularly forgotten whenever a so-called 'Big Club' comes sniffing round the bottom of a player like a randy Labrador? The player who has 'always supported' this Big Club 'since I was a kid'... 'always watched them''... 'have unfinished business' with them and on and on...

The same contracts that mean Sweet FA to the shitbucket of an agent who hawks his player round any number of wealthy clubs so that player XYZ can play for the Champions League side where his talents deserve to be seen? This after half a dozen good performances at Sheffield Utd, Wolves, Palace, WHU and yes, Everton. Please, let's accept contracts for what they are. Worthless scraps of paper, heavily weighted in favour of the player (and Mr Shitbucket).

The likes of Posturing Pogba are the sort of player who has really turned me away from football. He's done fuck-all for Man Utd, just trousered a shed full of money every month, yet he shows his thanks by making eyes at Juventus where, no doubt, 'he's always wanted to play', in the Serie A, a League he's 'always followed'. Pricks like him are better off out of the Premier League. With his 'contract' protruding from his backside.

(For Pogba, read any number of mercenary players. It's just his arrogant, posturing, self-serving attitude and persona that pisses me off.)

Ray Robinson
71 Posted 02/04/2020 at 16:59:43
Two separate issues here. The first is accepting a pay cut in order to save the future of club itself, the second is continuing to accept the full wage but then diverting a proportion of it to a worthwhile cause. Pehaps the first is easier to do as it saves the hand that feeds. However, how do we know that some of the players aren't already doing the second? Probably a minority, I know.

Whilst I agree that Premier League players are obscenely overpaid and that many of them waste millions of pounds on ridiculous trappings, I hate it when over-generalisations are made about ALL footballers. There is one Premier League footballer, I've been told, donates a substantial percentage of his income to an African trust.

So, while I agree with the current outrage about players' earnings, let's not rush to tar everyone with the same brush.

On a wider note, what is Gordon Taylor doing with his enormous salary, I wonder? And "celebrities" in the wider entertainment industry?

Time for a re-think about society as a whole, I think.

Robert Williams
72 Posted 02/04/2020 at 17:05:50
I had a pay rise a few days ago, the taxman added 80p to my pension - that'll go a long way to make up the cut in interest I suffered on my savings.!!
However, I had already decided to take a cut. I decided to cut out my season ticket altogether for all the reasons cited here over the past few weeks.

I am totally disenchanted with the 'beautiful game'. After years of swallowing the guff spouted by clubs and media I like to think I have sussed out the whole charade that is now football. It's not what I knew, not what I expect. I no longer have any feelings for the game, and I will no longer subscribe to these astronomical salaries.

This virus is a disaster but I am sure it will mean many will review their priorities.

Brian Wilkinson
73 Posted 02/04/2020 at 17:13:29
We now have Eddie Large, he went in with a heart problem and ended up with Coronavirus while in hospital.

They need to act faster and get the NHS staff tested which takes me to asking this question.

How many people who have self-isolated at home survived and how many who have been taken into hospital have not been so lucky?

Is the hospital isolation not working as well due to the Government's slowness on getting the staff tested?

Not saying for one minute that is the reason, but does make you wonder if it is better staying at home, without contact.

Paul Birmingham
74 Posted 02/04/2020 at 17:19:16
In context with Colin, Mike, Ray, Darren, Brian many others, this pandemic, will make people reevaluate their lives and what counts and is important to them and life.

The levels of hardship and stress placed on the NHS and 100s of thousands of workers, is unparalleled in peace time.

If the Premier League had anything about them, they'd set an example and make it mandatory to support their local hospitals and emergency services.

If it happens soon, better late than never, but I doubt it will.

I see an exodus away from the game which would only be capable of being fixed if the Premier League gate prices went down to under a score.

If and when business as usual is restored, the big bonus and sponsorship deals will not be common-place and normal hardworking people will be even more frugal with their hard-earned cash.

Fair play to clubs and players who are showing help and compassion, let's hope football players and their agents will learn from what's happening.

Winston Williamson
75 Posted 02/04/2020 at 17:26:58
I appreciate I'm a small voice. I'm merely one of millions of football fans, with little control, voice or influence.

However, should the Premier League return without fans in the stadium, or before this pandemic is fully over, I won't watch another Premier League game again.

Using vital public services, ambulances and police, when they're stretched beyond endurance, just to satisfy contracts with broadcasters, would be abhorrent beyond words.

Fuck the broadcasters, fuck the pampered players and managers and agents.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about football at this time, and won't do until the world is back to normal.

If this results in players being worth less, or earning less, and they don't like it, let then leave the sport and take up a proper job.

This virus has shown up some people to be lovely, generous, caring, and wholeheartedly good people.

Unfortunately, it has also shown us some sections of society are selfish, black-hearted, twats, belonging in a sewer, and I'm afraid the Premier League is near the top of this pile of stinking shite!

Dave Abrahams
76 Posted 02/04/2020 at 17:37:14
Brian (68), good post and I echo your shout for people to get out, if they are able, to clap and applaud everyone on the front line fighting this terrible virus. The NHS workers of all categories, pharmacists, supermarket workers, postmen, bin men and all the workers who are keeping country moving.

Me and my wife and grandson got out last week and joined a disappointing few on my road to clap the NHS workers. I'll be out again tonight at 8:00 pm, it's only for a few minutes, try and have a go. It's only a token but it shows our gratitude for these people carrying on working, some for a pittance, and putting their lives at risk.

Mike Benjamin
77 Posted 02/04/2020 at 18:22:03
A lot criticism has been directed to Premier League clubs but this seems to be applied globally, with everyone tarred with the same brush. Spurs and Newcastle applying to the government scheme to cover 80% of the wages of the non-playing staff but let's get the facts right. Everton have not done that, the current position of the club is as follows:

No one at the club (playing and none playing staff) will suffer financially during the crises.

All casual staff, stewards, hospitality etc, who work solely on match days will receive the money that they would normally earn. In addition, should the matches be rearranged for over the summer, they will receive additional payments.

Should the playing staff voluntarily reduce their wages, then that is for them.

At the moment, our club should not be criticised in the same way as the money grabbing bastards mentioned earlier in this post.

Chris Williams
78 Posted 02/04/2020 at 18:28:44
I see that the decision to play the Liverpool game v Atletico has now been criticised by health authorities.

No shit! Even Klopp said so, according to Carlo.

Herd immunity was still the stance on 11th March, one of the advisors said as much the same day, but there were 6 confirmed cases in the city then and there's 262 now. You can't say it's contributed to that increase but you can say it didn't fucking help.

Whose decision? Maybe we'll hear from Liverpool FC now?

Article in the Guardian now.

Rob Halligan
79 Posted 02/04/2020 at 18:36:20
Chris # 78. A friend of the missus, her son works in the Royal hospital, and he has reported a mass increase in the number of people who may have the virus. The timeline has been traced back to the night Atletico fans were in the city. As Dave Abrahams (or was it Tony?) said, had the derby match gone ahead, god knows what the numbers would be now?
Andy Crooks
80 Posted 02/04/2020 at 18:36:52
I have often defended young working-class men earning big money. I also think that there are a huge amount of huge earners, way beyond football, who earn obscene amounts. Whoever advises these young men should tell them to have a look at themselves, their lifestyles and the lowest paid.

Unfortunately, they are often advised by people bereft of morality. The Premier League engages us, but it is small beer to the vermin who really are milking it without conscience.

We can only make personal choices and mine is that I am embarrassed to have invested so much emotion into a decadent, obscene, circus that really is utterly pointless. This virus will hit Africa, Central and South America much worse than us.

Can any of us take any comfort in the fact that we might be watching our monumentally paid heroes once more on MotD while Africa is being ravaged.

Mike Gaynes
81 Posted 02/04/2020 at 18:40:33
Brian #69, agreed. I would venture to guess that most charitable donations are never trumpeted in press releases.

Brian #73, it is definitely better to stay at home, without contact, if you have a mild case of the virus... and you have people who can help you, because this can worsen very, very quickly. Sadly, older people living alone in Brooklyn have been found dead of the virus in their apartments.

And it is certainly a problem that people like Eddie Large with pre-existing conditions can catch the virus at the hospital and die. My father-in-law in Wuhan has been kept home without his 3X/week cancer treatments for more than two months because the risk involved in taking him to the hospital was deemed higher than the risk of missing treatment. (He's doing OK.) Balancing the dangers of this pestilence is an every-day issue.

With regards to the title of this thread, I personally believe that footy has been more safe and appropriate since Joey Barton hung 'em up, but that's just me.

John Pierce
82 Posted 02/04/2020 at 18:45:50
Sadly the only way any high earner gets the message is if the fans stop going to the games, the gig, buying the merchandise etc. However, to ram home that message, often the collateral are the lower paid people who support the industry. They won't thank you for it when they are out of work.

If you scale that up to the banks and the airlines etc, they all know they don't have to help because they can get bailed out by any government because it hurts too many others lower down the food chain. Players and big businesses know their value to the overall economy so can afford to be as greedy as they like.

It's disgusting.

I've long wanted the football bubble to be burst, in fact I'd had enough c. 2008 and got a season ticket at Barnet, I started to enjoy going the game again. I was lured back in 2013 because we moved stateside, and I needed the connection and nostalgia. But I don't want it to burst like this, with tragedy and upset.

Don't miss the footy one bit.

Rob Halligan
83 Posted 02/04/2020 at 19:06:42
Andy, the population of Kenya is just over 53 million, while Tanzania is just under 60 million. A combined total of 113 million. I have been to both countries, Kenya twice and Tanzania once, and believe me, even the likes of Mombasa and Nairobi are not places you would like to live. The hospitals looked really run down, though that's not to say they weren't worthy of doing a good job. Out in the national parks of both countries live thousands of Masai tribes in their villages, miles and hours away from the nearest city. There are also local farmers out in the national parks.

If / when the virus hits these national parks, then the death toll could literally run into many thousands. As you say, the whole of Africa, not just Kenya and Tanzania, will suffer mass deaths, as there's no way they will be able to receive any treatment. That's if the hospitals have the equipment to be able to treat patients. It's a really horrible thought as to how many Africans are going to suffer?

Patrick McFarlane
84 Posted 02/04/2020 at 19:27:07
John #82 It would seem that there are some people, in charge of the game, who are quite happy to play games in empty stadiums, so long as they don't fall foul of the overseas TV companies and their lawyers.

If the season is completed behind closed doors at some future date, I believe that the game will have alienated the very people who helped to make it so profitable in the first place. Many of those fans - as a result of that scenario - who have attended religously over the years will never attend again.

Many Evertonians in particular dislike the inconvenience and intrusion of Television and much prefer to watch the game live in the stadium, break that link and put it alongside the upcoming 'recession' or even 'depression' and folk will have a valid reason to walk away from the game. I do hope the authorities and clubs are taking note of that possibility.

As for the MP who began this debate, Julian Knight, according to 'TheyWorkForYou.Com

He consistently voted against higher taxes on banks;
He consistently voted for more restrictive regulation of trade union activity; and
he consistently voted for reducing capital gains tax.

He's no friend of the long-term sick either – rearrange these words to make a sentence – Bandwagon MP on It Jump?

Tony Everan
86 Posted 02/04/2020 at 19:28:05
Dave, I'll be with you clapping.

It brings it home who the real heroes in society are, the people who keep our basic quality of life alive and kicking.

Footballers may be great entertainers (sometimes!) but most are not heroes.

Chris Williams
87 Posted 02/04/2020 at 19:40:11

I heard it said on a recent news report, that many Premier League clubs could actually give tickets away to match-going fans, so much have the finances changed.

Match going fans don't matter. Think match times. Think VAR.

The genie is out of the bottle mate, and it isn't going back any time soon.

Boycott all you want, they couldn't care less.

The price of everything and the value of nothing!

Bill Gall
88 Posted 02/04/2020 at 19:42:38
I think any cuts in pay has to come from the players as the clubs are bound by the ridiculous contracts that they have had to sign by greedy agents. The downhill slide that started off by the outrageous demands by agents can go back as far as when Rooney was transferred to Man Utd.

I don't know if it has changed, but at one time the club had to pay a fee to the agent as part of the negotiations, and I think it was the chairman of Crystal Palace that refused to pay it.

I firmly believe that the club should be allowed to cut a % of the players negotiated fees as they are not fulfilling their contracts by not playing.

The players are fully covered when injured or ill, and insured if injuries force them to be finished playing, so they should voluntary take a cut if the club can't do it.

Show the supporters that they are as fully behind them as much as the supporters are fully behind them in normal times.

Dave Abrahams
89 Posted 02/04/2020 at 19:57:23
Tony (86), well done mate.

Bill (88), Yes, the Crystal Palace Chairman at the time refused to pay the agent of Tim Cahill. So, in a roundabout way, he did us a favour, as Everton jumped in and signed him. But I agree – agents are mostly leeches and pimps.

Tony Abrahams
90 Posted 02/04/2020 at 20:17:41
Except for the players who they represent, Dave, obviously. Footballers would have never been earning this amount of money without these agents, because they are mostly working-class people, and wouldn't have dreamed they could get so rich, for doing something most of them will have loved, until it became a job!

I agree, Bill, it's got to be down to the players, especially because most of them will have come from working-class backgrounds, and I bet you that if you took away agents tomorrow, then at least 75% of players would probably be seen to be doing something, the very same day.

John Keating
91 Posted 02/04/2020 at 20:27:20
Great turn out in our street at 8 o'clock.

Regarding our "team"
It's a bloody sad state of affairs when multi millionaires have to have the PFA and other arseholes have meetings to decide if, when and how much they contribute to – hopefully – local organisations.

This City has 2 Premier League teams... think how much money these players can give to our local NHS and the hundreds of voluntary organisations working during this present crisis, and still be loaded.

Are these idiots really so out of touch that they have to be told to do the right thing? Every hour that goes by puts our clubs and the Premier League in a worse and worse light. They really have missed a trick, especially Everton, who have worked so hard to get EitC so well established and thought of.

In a strange way, Everton took a lead over the RS in many aspects of the Hillsboro campaign. The PR department can sometimes be well ahead of the game. I am afraid in this crisis the Club and the players have been a massive let-down.

Personally I don't give a shit what MP or other half-wit takes a lead in condemning the football hierarchy. The simple fact is that they do need condemning, big style.

Anything the club do now will look half-hearted and far too late.

Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 02/04/2020 at 20:39:05
Just read a piece on the Echo website from Kevin de Bruyne, saying that he thinks a lot of players would be getting injured if they just go right back to playing games.

Then go to the comments, and you “COULDN'T BELIEVE” that so many people are losing their lives, all over our country, and also the world right now.

I know it's only a few people making these comments, but I'm just glad I'm not a Liverpool supporter, thank god.

Patrick McFarlane
93 Posted 02/04/2020 at 20:45:13
Sky Sports reported tonight:

In a statement, the PFA said: "Contrary to some press reports the PFA has never stated that it will block all wage deferrals. What we have sought to put in place is a structured and unified approach to ensure a fair response across the leagues.

"The players we have spoken to recognise that the non-playing staff are a vital part of their club and they do not want to see club staff furloughed unfairly. Any use of the government's support schemes without genuine financial need is detrimental to the wider society.

"We fully accept that players will have to be flexible and share the financial burden of the COVID-19 outbreak in order to secure the long-term future of their own club and indeed the wider game. Our advice going out to players at this point reflects that expectation."

"Each club's financial standing will vary. We are aware of the public sentiment that the players should pay non-playing staff's salaries. However, our current position is that - as businesses - if clubs can afford to pay their players and staff, they should.(emphasis added)

"In instances where clubs have the resources to pay all staff, the benefit of players paying non-playing staff salaries will only serve the business of the club's shareholders.

"We understand the severity of the situation and the challenges that clubs from all divisions face. We have requested, via the leagues, that clubs provide us with information about their financial position, so that we can make informed decisions for the future - both immediate and long-term.

PFA Denial

Chris Williams
94 Posted 02/04/2020 at 20:56:47
I see Philip Green has joined Branson, Ashley, and several other billionaires looking for state handouts.

Knights of the Realm. What a fucking travesty!

Any bets?

Jerome Shields
95 Posted 02/04/2020 at 21:18:09
The players and their agents could find it they don't bite the bullet, the Football industry could be a very different place when they come back, with attitudes to match. They need to be thinking of the communities they are based in as well.

Really, the whole football hierarchy are trailing their feet, except for applying for furlong payments. It would make you want to throw up.

John Keating
96 Posted 02/04/2020 at 21:23:48
What a shit statement from the PFA. Another non-entity that should be binned.

So their plan to look at every club's finances will take ages and another cop-out.

Do our doctors and nurses ask each patient how much they earn before treating them? Bloody rubbish.

I don't know what the average UK wage is. Let's, for argument's sake say 㿅k. Let each Premier League player get double that during the crisis. No, let's quadruple that. Let's give them 𧴜k a year. They already have every luxury and can surely live on ٠k a week while this thing lasts.

Our club should be taking a lead on this and putting all other Premier League clubs to shame. We should not be waiting for meetings. A disgrace.

Phil Greenough
97 Posted 02/04/2020 at 21:37:57
I've a question and it may sound naive, but I hope some one can answer it.

If Everton have got a contract with the groundsman, it's usually binding to say that EFC will pay the person a salary, if they do their job in a sound manner and it's within their financial capabilities to do so.

Likewise, they give a contract to a player for x years and agree to pay him a salary, as long as EFC have the means to so and it must state somewhere, that the player must perform to the best of his abilities.

So it transpires that EFC cannot pay the groundsman his salary, because of forces beyond their control and they have to lay him off and ask the Government to pay most of his salary.

My question is, what is the difference between the groundsman and the player? They are both under contract to the club, however, the club can lay the groundsman off but not the player?

Brian Williams
98 Posted 02/04/2020 at 21:44:28
Basically, Phil, it's all down to the terms and conditions of each contract.

The groundsman's would be a straight-forward salaried contract of employment similar to what most of us have/had if we worked directly for a company.

The player's contract will be much more involved, containing very specific conditions, and of course it's a fixed-term contract too.

Oh and one last small difference, about 䀏,750 a week!

Tony Everan
99 Posted 02/04/2020 at 22:10:45
What the PFA and footballers don't understand is that forgoing 70% of their wages for a few months will make them unnoticeably poorer in the short term and make them feel immeasurably better for the rest of their lives.

I would like the Everton lads to put two fingers up to the snide PFA's edict and do what Barca and Atletico have already done. Take a 70% cut. As Darren mentioned earlier, there is no time to lose, do it tomorrow. With hindsight, they will see it as one of the best things they have ever done. The goodwill it will foster is worth a million times the lost money.


Brian Wilkinson
100 Posted 02/04/2020 at 22:21:44
Just a couple of replies, apologies for not making notes of the names.

In regards to the Belgium league, there was only 1 match remaining to complete the season and the title had already been won.

The other about the Atletico game going ahead, I mentioned before the game, the only reason they allowed the Spanish fans to travel was down to enable the Liverpool fans to attend the game and try but fail to use the crowd as the extra man.

Had they said no to the Spanish fans travelling, then the game would have had to be played behind closed doors. Had that game been played in Spain instead, you can guarantee it would have been behind closed doors.

As per usual, they bent over backwards for our neighbours and will do so again, had the Premier League been won, they would have cancelled the rest of the season, final placings stand, no relegation, but Leeds and West Brom promoted.

They are holding out to make sure our neighbours lift that title. Nothing else matters to the FA... disgraceful with what's going on, around the world.

Tom Harries
101 Posted 02/04/2020 at 22:51:39
I agree with the PFA about one thing - the clubs should be paying the wages of the non-playing staff; the players shouldn't be expected to be paying them, any more than the tax-payer should. Spurs are owned by a billionaire tax-exile, ffs, but now we're all going to be paying their staff, because that's what 'furlough' means.

But this is a massive own-goal for football. which will probably be forgotten by the media about 5 minutes after it returns, post-virus.

Andy Crooks
102 Posted 02/04/2020 at 23:23:27
Ashley and Levy. No decency, integrity or shame.
Tom Bowers
103 Posted 02/04/2020 at 23:24:10
The English leagues cannot possibly confirm winners and losers (relegation) until it is over. As I have said previously, it will be finished even if it carries over to next season or next year.

Yes, we all know the RS would probably win the Premier League but mathematically many issues are still to be decided in every division.

I cannot see any games going on behind closed doors as this would mean players training and officials having to ignore social distancing etc and of course travel problems.

I think 2020 is a write-off with everything this year, not just sport, which is secondary to people's health and survival.

Patrick McFarlane
104 Posted 02/04/2020 at 23:32:02
According to Football London and other sources

UEFA have proposed to resume football around July and August in a letter sent to all members across Europe.

All matches have been postponed due to the coronavirus pandemic but the European Club Association and European Leagues body have urged leagues not to abandon their seasons.

The Belgian top flight earlier became the first major European league to recommend that the season was ended with current standings declared as final.

In a letter seen by AP, UEFA said: "We are confident that football can restart in the months to come — with conditions that will be dictated by public authorities and believe that any decision of abandoning domestic competitions is, at this stage, premature and not justified.

“Their work is now focusing on scenarios encompassing the months of July and August, including the possibility that the UEFA competitions restart after the completion of domestic leagues.

"A joint management of calendars is strictly required as the conclusion of the current season must be coordinated with the start of the new one, which may be partly impacted because of the overstretch.

“Closely following the development of the current situation, the calendar working group will indicate as soon as possible, and ideally by mid-May, which of the plans can be enacted for the completion of the season without leaving anyone behind.

“Since participation in UEFA club competitions is determined by the sporting result achieved at the end of a full domestic competition, a premature termination would cast doubts about the fulfillment of such condition."

Meanwhile, the players wages issue as reported by The Independent will be a collective decision, therefore negating Everton or any other club taking an individual stance.


The general mood in the Premier League – and the instruction from on high – is that no club should strike out alone on this issue, and that all should wait for the 20 clubs to do it together.

The Mirror concentrate on the TV deals and the fear that cancelling the season will have on the Clubs finances.

BT/Sky Crisis Talks

Brian Wilkinson
105 Posted 02/04/2020 at 23:55:59
Anyway just a change of subject, a big thumbs up to the poster who recommended The English Game on Netflix.

Just finished watching it and enjoyed it.

Don Alexander
106 Posted 03/04/2020 at 00:38:22
Not read many posts on this thread but until a vaccine is in use life anywhere is unlikely to return to pre-pandemic levels, surely?

At the moment that's sometime in 2021 isn't it?

Derek Thomas
107 Posted 03/04/2020 at 01:34:25
Still hearing the sound of silence from Everton players on giving some back. This whole 'woke' thing gone straight over their mercenary heads?
Joe Corgan
108 Posted 03/04/2020 at 01:40:22
If it's possible with just a few hours notice to arrange to applaud NHS workers across the country, then perhaps we should boo every player for one minute on their first game back.

Think about it. The players could easily cover the wages of non-playing staff who've been made redundant or furloughed. Any club that furloughs staff should get one minute of solid booing in the (Covid) 19th minute of their first home game.

Si Cooper
109 Posted 03/04/2020 at 02:00:30
Don, it depends on various factors as to whether Covid-19 is still a threat by next year. For a start, it very much depends on what immunity is actually gained by those who survive it and whether there is any natural immunity or not. If there is no natural immunity (as currently postulated), then anyone will either have to catch it and survive it (as the vast majority do) or be vaccinated to be deemed safe.

The initial strategy was simply to let everyone catch it and hospitalise those who needed it. That ‘plan' had the advantage of not drawing out the pandemic and not requiring a great deal of social / economic disruption, but was destroyed by the obvious major flaw that the health service doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to deal with even a fairly moderate surge in intensive care cases. Hence the abrupt later switch to flattening the curve by self-isolation, social distancing and ultimately lockdown.

Now we wait to see if any vaccine is developed (not a foregone conclusion) and whether it becomes the main weapon in a drawn-out struggle to suppress the virus, or whether it will just be mopping up the (likely) minority of people who have avoided infection in the interim.

Of course the virus will be stymied by less than 100% population immunity if there are insufficient numbers of available hosts to keep it circulating – that is how herd immunity works.

Eric Myles
110 Posted 03/04/2020 at 04:37:51
Phil #97, there's no reason why clubs could not furlough their players, they're just employees like any other.
Eric Myles
111 Posted 03/04/2020 at 04:49:09
Winston #75,

"Using vital public services, ambulances and police, when they're stretched beyond endurance, just to satisfy contracts with broadcasters, would be abhorrent beyond words."

But football didn't stop in the winter of 2017-18 when over 50,000 died in the UK alone, and many more were sick in hospital due to 'flu and the cold.

Eric Myles
112 Posted 03/04/2020 at 05:12:53
Phil #54, the problem with your scenario is that the club still has to find the full amount of the players salaries. And where is that revenue going to come from when there are no games being played and broadcast and sponsorship deals will be void?
Jeff Spiers
113 Posted 03/04/2020 at 06:59:24
Chris @94. The corrupt greedy bastards will be okay. They've had their anti-covid jabs months ago. Fuck the rest of us.
Paul Tran
114 Posted 03/04/2020 at 07:00:52
Eric #110, that's already happening in Scotland. Even some Scottish Premier League clubs are furloughing playing staff.
John Keating
115 Posted 03/04/2020 at 07:23:55

When you think, though, some of the Scottish Premier League players are on, per year, what some Premier League players are on per week!!!

You look at the tosser who owns Spurs, a billionaire and then Anne Budge who's worth what, ٠-3 million?

Admittedly players earning ٠, 3, 4k a week is still great money and having ٠-3 million is not to be scoffed at, it does put things in perspective.

Derek Knox
116 Posted 03/04/2020 at 08:50:48
Hat's off to Anne Budge who has taken the initiative and the bottle to be practical in these unprecedented times.

A stark contract to Won't Budge, as per most of her much wealthier EPL counterparts!

As with most things in life someone has to stand up and 'grasp the nettle' if need be to encourage those who are hiding behind each other waiting for something to happen.

Phil Owens
117 Posted 03/04/2020 at 08:56:15
Just something to make you laugh. I can't stop watching it, the guy's laugh is so infectious :)

Poor old Liverpool

Ray Roche
118 Posted 03/04/2020 at 09:00:11
Brian @105

Brian, The English Game was mentioned by several of us, the ToffeeWeb connection is regular poster Sam Hoare who, as well as being a fine actor, wrote Episode 4. Sam was in the recent spy thriller series “Traitors “, another good watch.

And I'm NOT Sam's agent.

Derek Knox
119 Posted 03/04/2020 at 09:11:44
Slightly off topic here but the Health Minister Matt Hancock does not inspire any confidence in me whatsoever, he's like a schoolboy in his fist attendance at a Debating Society. Or a nervous rabbit in the headlights.

Having said that the Chief Medical Officer Prof. Chris Whitty falls similarly into that category, I know you can never, and shouldn't, judge a book by it's cover but It beggars the question if they are our experts, 'God Help Us All'.

Jerome Shields
120 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:05:35
Listened to Gary Lineker regarding player wages cuts this morning. Players and ex-players are in Cuckoo land.
Dave Abrahams
121 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:19:57
Derek (119), you got me smiling there Derek with your remarks about Matt Hancock, the Health Minister, he always reminds me of the camp manager in Hi Di Hi.
Alan J Thompson
122 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:21:31
It's good of UEFA and EPL to announce when the season will be finished even though nobody can put a date to when this virus will be brought under control, if at all.

As for players donating part of their income. Some will with a fanfare, others will do it quietly (both will claim their tax rebate) and some won't bother at all. File it with the Trickle Down theory.

Eric Myles
123 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:31:09
John #115, even more reason for EPL clubs to furlough players then as their costs are so much higher.
Alan McGuffog
124 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:31:35
Dave..the camp manager. Or the camp...manager. E
ither applies if my memory serves me
Rennie Smith
125 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:34:19
Alan (122) what I'd prefer to see happen is the whole management & playing squad makes a % contribution (say those over a certain salary per week because not everyone is on the megabucks). So certain individuals don't get the fanfare as you say, but collectively they do the right thing and the club is portrayed is a better light.

I am absolutely certain some will have already contributed in whatever way, there's always work going on behind the scenes with players and foundations. However, at a time like this, the club needs to be doing something significant. If I was a Spurs fan I'd be sickened and highly embarrassed by their club's actions, but doing nothing also doesn't look good.

Rob Halligan
126 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:36:54
Jeez, I've heard it all now. This has been reported in the red echo. Another mad cap idea to finish the season. It would help the RS of course, as every stadium they played in would be full to the brim of Chinese decked out in red and white. This has clearly got to be a non starter!!

Remember those controversial plans to hold a 39th Premier League game overseas a few years back?

Well the English top-flight could belatedly end up going on tour with concluding the current campaign abroad one of the potential solutions set to be discussed at today's meeting.

According to a report in The Athletic, senior figures at the Premier League are becoming increasingly fearful that they have nowhere left to turn to resume the season in this country.

As a result, one club is believed to have suggested whether it is worth exploring if the season could be finished abroad as an alternative.

This has led to China, which is on the road to recovery after suffering an outbreak of Covid-19 earlier this year, being mooted as the destination of choice to play the remaining games.

Rennie Smith
127 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:40:38
Rob, is it still April Fool?
Hugh Jenkins
128 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:42:35
Several comments on this thread have referred to EPL teams and the "communities they represent'.

Sadly, that concept disappeared with "Globalisation".

Everton and all other EPL and many lower league teams are no longer a collection of local lads, brought up locally and representing their "local" community.

95% or more of the playing staff have no more connection to Liverpool that I have ( I live in South West Wales).

So, to expect them to have any sympathy or empathy with local residents and local causes is unrealistic.

It's true that Covid-19, in its pandemic state, is a challenge to everyone on the planet and it is also true that EPL footballers should not be any more immune from its financial effects, than anyone else.

But appeals on the grounds of emotional attachment to the local community will, I fear, fall on deaf ears.

Few, if any of the current players will live within a 20 mile radius of the ground - local community - LOL

Derek Cowell
129 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:50:51
Jeff at 113.

There is no such thing as an anti-Covid-19 jab!! Hence the worldwide research now being undertaken by scientists to find one, ie, a vaccine. So neither 'greedy' players, the Queen, nor anyone else anywhere has had such a jab as you suggest!

Billy Roberts
130 Posted 03/04/2020 at 10:54:34
Eric @111

Was there a similar NHS crisis in 17-18? Were emergency 4,000-bed hospitals being set up like the Excel arena? I think you know there is no comparison so therefore you should understand the poster when he states that to use emergency services would be abhorrent.

Your post @110 states there are no reasons why the Premier League and others shouldn't use public money, I'll give you a very strong one, it is considered by most right-minded people to be ethically wrong.
Big businesses take this thing quite seriously. If the Premier League don't want to be bedfellows with Ashley, Martin, Brandon, Green etc, they should start making some big decisions. PFA included.

Brian Harrison
131 Posted 03/04/2020 at 11:14:12
The crassness of footballers knows no bounds, on the BBC sport page they are showing a picture of Memphis Depay cradling a tiger in his arms in his house. You really couldnt make up this stuff, and to think he thought it was OK to post the picture on social media.
Colin Glassar
132 Posted 03/04/2020 at 11:22:42
Jerome 120, Professional Football is like a cartel. They all stick together to defend their own personal interests. The likes of Lineker and Neville can pontificate all they like from their gilded perches. They are safe and sound and their multimillion pound bank accounts protect them from any financial worries.
John Raftery
133 Posted 03/04/2020 at 11:54:28
Don (106) Much as it pains me to do so, I agree with you.
John Raftery
134 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:09:09

Hi Rob (126) You are right that China is on the road to recovery with the number of new cases falling to between 51 and 100 over the last few days and some of the restrictions being lifted. We have yet to see what happens when people start returning to their normal lives. I think the last thing they would want in the foreseeable future is a load of football players arriving from countries where the virus has yet to peak.

Michael Lynch
135 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:27:53
We should definitely send the RS to China. All that red flag waving and forced communal singing of tuneless dirges will be very familiar to the Chinese.

Jerome Shields
136 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:34:55
Colin #132

I agree. But they are going to come under increased pressure from the Communities that they serve , whether they like it or not.

Ex Players have now put forward the argument that because the Premier League players pay 45% tax, they are already making a contribution. If their wages where reduced they would not be able make the same contribution.

You will notice the absence of concern for the Clubs and Communities they serve. If they made charitable donations within the Communities they serve their contribution would be targeted locally, which would be worth 45% more than the value of the contribution, since a charity would with their consent by way of a convenant be able claim back the tax they paid which would cost the actual player nothing.

Colin you are right they are a shower of greedy bastards, who will do their required public relation bit in the Community, but the majority of them won't put their hands in their pockets to help the Community when they need it.

Phil Bellis
137 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:36:08
Hi John (134)

But, as Brian points out (100), okay to let 3,000+ fans from an infected city come into Liverpool and attend a football match for the sole purpose of retaining the home team's advantage re "crowd atmosphere".

Then the home supporters buggar off back to Norway, Kidderminster, Exeter etc, potentially taking infection with them

Some Atletico fans were drinking in Gt Charlotte Street pubs and said they came in on Mon for the Wed match as their own bars were closed.

Sheer madness - shameful; if it was Sheff Utd, West Ham et al, closed doors at best.

Tony Abrahams
138 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:37:41
The Echo has become a bigger comic than the Express, with a couple of new stories every day about how the EPL can resume, because it just seems so important right now.
Patrick McFarlane
139 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:45:44
Hugh #128, Some of Everton's all-time legends are not from the parish, but they did represent Everton FC ergo they represented the City of Liverpool - only difference today is that instead of Blackpool or Glasgow being their birthplaces, they are born overseas from every continent.

Colin#132, Lineker said yesterday that he has donated his net salary of the next couple of months to British Red Cross and Neville with his business partner Ryan Giggs have allowed NHS staff to stay at their hotel free of charge.

Charles Barrow
140 Posted 03/04/2020 at 12:47:34
I can't see how the league can be completed before the end of the summer. Even if they intend to play games 'behind closed doors' there will be 22 players not 2 metres apart at all times (insert joke re Siggie) and support staff, medical staff, coaches etc on the sidelines.

At the moment, it is illegal for more than 2 people to congregate! So if the regulations continue for many more weeks (which is likely) it won't happen.

Rennie Smith
141 Posted 03/04/2020 at 13:05:17
Jerome (136) the 45% tax argument is not an obstacle. The players could make charitable contributions to a club fund that would go to pay the non-playing staff's wages, rather than them being furloughed and the government paying (actually ourselves at some point because we're going to have to pay for all this in the long term, by whatever means).

At the moment, many restrictions are being relaxed by HMRC, so any argument about this being difficult to set up would also be false. If there's a will, there's a way.

Phil Bellis
142 Posted 03/04/2020 at 13:13:01
A contact sport (well, used to be).

What would happen if players got injured on the pitch and required hospital treatment when reources are so stretched and medical life and death choices are having to be made?

As for the Red Echo, ask yer mam to just get you the annual for Christmas

Paul Tran
143 Posted 03/04/2020 at 13:42:41
Let's stop playing the government's distraction game.

Instead of having a go at footballers, let's focus on the lying incompetent ministers, the facts-averse people who vote for them, the billionaire tax-avoiders that fund them, the club owners who fuel the wages spiral.

Patrick McFarlane
144 Posted 03/04/2020 at 14:22:13
Exactly Paul #143 We have been told decade after decade that just throwing money at Pubiic Services isn't the solution but a better funded NHS may have been able to lessen the impact of this crisis. As for footballers the various ministers didn't seem to care about their incomes in the past and I would argue that having 'entertainers' earning outrageous salaries helped to justify CEO's etc in the boardrooms of many business's to hike their own salaries without any criticism "ah yes but have you seen how much a soccer player earns?"

Trying to get football up and running again for all the wrong reasons is distasteful in the extreme particularly when you consider that somebody is losing their life roughly every two minutes in the UK given today's Covid19 death figures.

Derek Knox
145 Posted 03/04/2020 at 14:25:27
There was a Health Minister Hancock
Who looked like he'd come from Bangkok
He said to Chris Whitty, this whole thing turned shitty

And stumbled and fumbled, continually bumbled
While Covid nineteen ran amok.

Jay Wood

146 Posted 03/04/2020 at 14:39:03
Jay Wood

147 Posted 03/04/2020 at 14:39:03
Paul @ 143.

As with your post along similar lines yesterday in this thread, you again echo my own thoughts.

OK. This is an Everton footy forum so people are going to focus on the issue of players' salaries. But some posters clearly haven't followed what Everton the club has done to protect its own full-time and casual match day staff yet continue to castigate the club.

The greater questions you raise should be the real focus here. Namely:

* this is the Government the UK electorate recently endorsed and returned to power
* that it is their policies and year-on-year slashing of the health, social welfare and education budgets that has left the frontline NHS staff under-resourced and under-manned
* that they have enabled the avoidance of paying corporate tax by the world's biggest and richest companies which would be a far richer and more constant stream of wealth to the national coffers than a one-off gesture such as footballers taking a wage cut

Read here what the organization Tax Justice Network reported just last year when they described the UK as 'the world's greatest enabler' of corporate tax avoidance.


The maths is very simple.

How much do the many average Joes and Janes get taxed on the salary every month? Compare that to the world's largest corporations that make BILLIONS every year. And yet, the average lowest corporate tax rate in the top 10 listed countries (four of which are British territories) is...0.54%.

NOT 5.4%.
NOT 54% (which they could still well afford).
But 0.54%.

That adds up to BILLIONS in lost tax revenue that would dramatically improve health and education everywhere.

Yes, we are all getting antsy in lockdown.

But one way people could - perhaps SHOULD - best utilize their time is to reflect on the state of world politics and the symbiotic relationship 'democracies' share with the mega-capitalist corporations and how the burden always falls on those at the bottom of the pyramid in times of crisis such as this.

It's enough to search out David Icke as the messiah (NOT!!!).

Chris Williams
148 Posted 03/04/2020 at 14:48:58
The accumulative total deaths yesterday was just shy of 3000. We're told it is doubling every 3 days, so Monday we'll be looking at 6000 dead or thereabouts. It's just short of 700 today, so 900 or so tomorrow and 1200 or so Sunday, and there we are.

Absolutely frightening.

And then it happens again. And again until it reaches its peak.

And then again but at a smaller level. Until it stops.

And this may not even be the full total of deaths as I understand it.

Whether all the stuff about footballers wages is some sort of displacement theory or just the inbuilt greed and venality in the PL and the overall structure of what this benighted game has become I have no idea.

But I reckon there needs to be a major reckoning in this and other countries. A resetting of values, of how things are going to be around here. It can start with looking at the culpability for our preparedness and response to this pandemic.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Jay Wood

149 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:05:46
Chris @ 148.

'I'm not holding my breath though.'

I would like it to be otherwise like yourself, Chris.

But I fancy it will be a binge party once the major threat has diminished and very few, least of all governments and corporations, will truly reflect on events, their root causes and consequences, and very quickly it will be 'business as usual'.

With the emphasis very much on 'business'.

Eric Myles
150 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:13:53
Billy #130

"Was there a similar NHS crisis in 17/18?"
Yes, yes there was, except it was more severe than at present with 50,000 plus dying, mostly the elderly.

"Your post @110 states there are no reasons why the PL and others shouldn't use public money" No, no it doesn't. It's an answer to a question asked at #97.

Chris Williams
151 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:18:48

Many international corporations are bigger than nation states now, and their interests are in nothing but self interest. They pretty much call the shots now, with governments composed of people with the same set of values, some fully understanding and some useful idiots.

EPL was built using the same values, and the same model.

For the few not the many, to paraphrase Corbyn.

So it's hard to see it changing.

Derek Knox
152 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:19:34
Jay, while I empathise with your feelings during this crisis, you are probably pretty accurate in your vision of how it will pan out post-pandemic. Even now when the majority of people are generally rooting for each other, there is a minority who look to capitalise on others.

I went to the Supermarket early this morning and surprisingly there was no queue, the shelves were fairly well stacked although a lot of gaps for certain products.

I overheard 2 of the Security guards saying that a lot of vulnerable people were getting mugged for their shopping after leaving the confines of the store, unbelievable.

Unfortunately these scumbags probably won't catch the virus, as it is not that discriminatory, what a pity.

Jerome Shields
153 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:26:41
Rennie# 141.

You are right HMRC have relaxed a lot of barriers. Even defering wages , like Juventus would help the Clubs, giving them a in effect a interest free loan to keep them liquid. This again would cost them nothing.

Obviously there has been resistance to doing anything, but there appears to be a split in ranks, so I expect a general change in attitude soon.

Jeff Spiers
154 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:30:11
Derek@129. Fair comment! But I do believe this virus is mankind. I did not mention footballers, the Queen or whoever, greed is obscene. Whatever walk of life they come from. Stay safe.
Eric Myles
155 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:32:44
Jerome #153, deferring wages would put more debt on the accounts making the club look, on paper, in financial difficulty.
Billy Roberts
156 Posted 03/04/2020 at 15:36:25
Really, there was a bigger more severe crisis in 17/18 than now?
And you did state "there is no reason why premier league clubs couldn't furlough their employers" @110
I simply gave you a very valid reason. Excuse me if I have mistaken shouldn't with couldn't but my response stays the same.
Jay Wood

157 Posted 03/04/2020 at 16:00:38
Sadly Derek @ 152 the scams are not exclusive to the UK.

We've got lowlife pulling the same kind of stunts here in Brazil.

I read yesterday on BBC of an 80+ old dear with dementia having her home invaded by a 'public health inspector' demanding a £220 for a cleansing. 'But I've only got 20p' was the poor old gal's response.

Another story from Olham today, a couple of 'helping hands' fooled a 92-year-old lady into letting them in after they (falsely) shared news that a neighbour had died and they wanted to clean her house. They lifted a purse, money and jewellery.

There are no words to adequately describe such scum.

'Scum' being the most benign of four-letter words.

Jay Wood

158 Posted 03/04/2020 at 16:00:38
Sorry Eds! Another unintended 'DUP'!

I think slower internet speeds due to isolation and increased home use might be to blame for double postings.

Francis van Lierop
159 Posted 03/04/2020 at 16:06:42
I think it may be best if we leave it to FIFA or Uefa.
They are non-partisan.

Over here, Ajax, AZ & PSV want to leave it for what it is.
How that will work for next years qualification for the Champions League and the Europa League is another matter, with Ajax and AZ tied for points.

In Belgium they have left it for it is, and awarded the championship to Club Brugge (Bruges), who were light years ahead.

Darren Hind
160 Posted 03/04/2020 at 16:16:03
Paul T

Premier league players should not be let off the hook, simply because we have a twat government

These are long, long days and we all have a bit more time on our hands. Get the machine gun out Mate. There are plenty of culprits to go round.. Keep your distance when you shoot them and wash your hands when your done

Jay Harris
161 Posted 03/04/2020 at 16:43:21
Meanwhile Sky and BT continue to collect monthly subscriptions while threatening the Premier league with witholding 700m+ for games not being played.

And the worlds leadership continues to show a lack of leadership, foresight and togetherness.

I watched an interview with Bill GAtes yesterday from 2015 where he forecst this very situation and warned Governments to prepare for it.

A very sorry state of affairs in the 21st century!!!

Ray Roche
162 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:19:04

I saw that the other day. Astonishingly accurate.

Rob Halligan
163 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:30:07
Jay, I get sky sports and BT Sport through virgin, and today have received an email saying they have suspended both sky and BT Sport until live action resumes. They are also going to credit us with a refund from when all football was suspended.
Chris Williams
164 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:42:57

I knew Branson was a good guy!

Jay Harris
165 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:44:40
I guess thats to strengthen their arm in forcing the Premier league to complete the season.

China here we come.

Forgive the cynic in me but I am singularly uninspired by the actions of governments and large corporations.

Jay Harris
166 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:46:04
Yes Ray and Nero fiddled while Rome burnt!!!
Rennie Smith
167 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:46:18
"The Premier League will advance £125m to the EFL and National League, and give £20m towards the NHS."

Premier League revenue in the 2019/20 season? Over £5.2billion.

Jay Wood

168 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:48:48
Jay @ 161 and Ray @ 162.

I'll put up this link again to BBC 4's EXCELLENT 'Contagion' documentary of just two years ago.

HIGHLY recommended!


Available on BBC's iPlayer. Need a VPN to view it outside the UK.

It is chillingly accurate at how a virus spreads and the havoc and casualties it can lead to.

Just two years old, relevant to the Bill Gates interview, it specifically states that governments worldwide are also well aware and constantly prepared for the onslaught of a new virulent virus such as Covid-19.

It even shows footage of gianormous warehouses filled to the rafters with PPE and the like in the event of an outbreak.

But then you read reports (outside of this documentary) of US and UK budget cuts that have directly impacted on those nations' abilities to promptly and effectively respond to this scenario and I for one conclude that official policy contrived to gamble with people's lives, rather than maintain a state of preparedness for such an event.

Jerome Shields
169 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:49:56
Jay#147 and Paul #143

You are both right, Hancock had a go at the Premiership to take the heat away from his own and the governments incompetence.

Johnson and his government initially adopted the policy of let the market find it's own level and protected vested interests. In their case it was a excuse to do nothing. They got badly caught out and thousands are going to suffer as a result.

The problem is that it all about power at Westminster and not about serving the people whose taxes and vote out them there.

Harry Maguire suggestion that Premier League players should donate 30% of their salary to the NHS, is a publicity stunt, and a attempt to appease Hot Air Hancock and associates. . What about the local communities where the Clubs are actually based? The funding of the NHS is the sole responsibility of the Government.

Actually I am glad we have Keane and gianomous fridge, and not Maguire.

David Hayes
170 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:51:08
For over Fifteen years we have all stood by and watched our clubs spiral out of control with huge transfer fees and wages to players, mainly funded by Sky and BT.

We have not only stood by but have demanded mega signings and success, every transfer window - the cry has been spend, spend, spend on players and managers. The clubs have spent and spent, & at the time we all concured. Every pre season the cry goes up spend - we need seven players to compete etc.

The bubble must burst, a severe tradgedy has finally woken us up.
I for one have lost my love for SKY/ BT Infused football a long time ago.

The only way to burst this bubble is to abandon this total media control of our game in our droves, they even decide when the games are played. I will never lose my love for Everton, but pray this is the end of TV giants running our game. Stay safe.

Kieran Kinsella
171 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:52:57
Billy 103, Eric 150, Billy 156

The NHS didn't exist in 1917/18 so no there wasn't a similar NHS crisis. But yeah there was a bigger humanitarian crisis with Spanish flu ravaging the world during World War I. Due to the lack of an NHS and a cover up of the flu during war time, people, many of them poor, were left to die at home with no medical treatment. It was terrible. We now have an NHS, better healthcare and longevity but this crisis is testing the limits of the status quo we have grown use to. So it's a new phenomena within the context of the modern era

Jay Harris
172 Posted 03/04/2020 at 17:59:29
David #70, a very appropriate and timely point but it wont stop the pursuit of more and more money spinning opportunities for the haves while the have nots struggle to get by while splashing out huge amounts on sky and BT subscriptions, match day tickets, kits for kids and all the associated paraphernalia.

A far cry from the game as portrayed in "The English Game" series but still with the greedy bastards at the top milking it.

Paul Birmingham
173 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:11:59
You'd like to think that the Government will show some gonads, and tell the EPL, that H&S, is paramount as is in every job and wLk of life.

Tough, tough that the EPL, don't have any sense of true reality on this pandemic.

I guarantee that the game will never be followed in the same way again after this pandemic.

Titles don't mean anything until the health of the people is guaranteed.

Paul Birmingham
174 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:18:01
Let's see what the EPL decides at the end of this month, and hopefully a null and void will apply and in the mean time EFC players will be donating some of their salaries to the local NHS and societies that cover and look after the less able and healthy members of society.
Brian Williams
175 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:19:32
Man Utd players agree a 30% pay cut for the next month and the rs captainHenderson has seemingly contacted all other prem captains to encourage them to do the same.
Anyone else think 30% isn't enough?
Paul Birmingham
176 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:35:32
They should all go on half pay and stop pretending to be hero's.

The word hero in context of EPL, players must be re worded.

True NHS, key workers, volunteers giving their all and these fairies, take self pity and lament for what their consciences are telling them to do.

The Red Echo should loose it's license and in context should be fined and donate its revenues to the NHS until this crisis is over.

It's tough, tough times. But the EPL, must get a reality check.

It won't be the same again after this virus has been contained.

Tony Abrahams
177 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:42:35
I think it's a proper piss-take Brian, but with so many foreign players in our league now, then maybe I'm just not looking at the bigger picture?

I've read about Yerry Mina, and Moise Kean, doing things in their country of birth, so maybe a lot of foreign players are doing this already, and are more concerned about helping financially where most of their friends and family live, rather than worrying about the country in which they ply their trade?

Derek Knox
178 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:44:53
Jay Wood @ 168, Netflix also had a series called Pandemic, which strangely was completed days before the Covid-19, was officially announced. How come these TV Stations are more in tune than Governments are?

Or is it they DID know but hoped it would just fizzle out? Like Jay Harris@ 165 the cynic in me does not place any faith in Governments and Official Institutions. They play a game with peoples livelihoods and more importantly their lives.

I just hope when, hopefully this is all over that people won't conveniently forget the present scenario as it has unfolded and how it has been mishandled!

Brian Williams
179 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:46:45
Yeh Tony that's a valid point and I read about what they're both doing but still think a 50% cut would be more than manageable. After all they're making all that money here!

On a different tack my missus said yesterday "Isn't it ironic that a couple of weeks ago supermarket workers, bin men, postmen, cleaners and the like were classed as low skilled workers, and now the whole country is relying on them."

Sobering and humbling thought!

Paul Hewitt
180 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:47:00
The simple fact is, footballers ain't playing. They are not doing there job. I wouldn't pay them a penny.
Eric Paul
181 Posted 03/04/2020 at 18:56:45
Does that cover everyone who're not doing their job Paul
Derek Taylor
182 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:01:36
I believe the odious chief executive of the PFA argued that 'salary sacrifice' by his members could well see LESS money going to good causes than at present !

Given that all but the kids playing in the Prem pay 40% tax to HMRC on their mega earnings, the higher their salaries, the more they contribute. I've never been good at sums, so I'll leave the calculations to The Esk or similarly talented TWers !

Paul Hewitt
183 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:06:43
Come on Eric, you know exactly what I mean. If millionaire's are not prepared to take a small pay cut, to help out far far less paid staff. Then I would not pay them a penny. And it's not just football as well. That greedy git Brandon and his mate Green should be ashamed of themselves. Both worth Billions and could easily pay their staff full pay for the next 3 months. We hopefully will be in a better place then, and can all return to work.
Billy Roberts
184 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:09:05
Kieran @171
We were discussing the flu fatalities of 2017/18
Eric was comparing it with today's Crisis.
We disagreed, but thanks for the history lesson. You will have to go back to about post 97 for it to make sense.
Dave Brierley
185 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:10:25
Unlike some of you boys on here I don't think the Government is doing a half bad job in impossible circumstances. It's all been reactionary but it was ever thus with Governments of all colours. Hancock was asked a question last night and answered it in a way I would've thought most people would've. Seems to have got a reaction by the sound of it.

A question for you left wingers and I don't mean in the football sense.

Is there anyone who seriously would have wanted Corbyn and his crazy cronies in office at a time like this?

The thought frightens me.

P.S. Darren, what's a 'twat government' ?

Dave Abrahams
186 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:21:22
Dave (185),Darren just left ‘of a ‘ out. As in twat of a government.

Dave, let's see what Johnson and his crowd do in office before you make comparisons with Corbyn and his chums. They haven't made a good start in my opinion, and that's not taking into consideration the Coronavirus situation which hopefully they can turn around and save a lot more lives than it looks like they can at the moment.

Eric Paul
187 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:32:31
Wealth is relative Paul how many people on the minimum wage are looking to help the big issue sellers whos customers are no longer there or well paid professionals helping people on the minimum wage who are struggling
Patrick McFarlane
188 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:34:30
If Boris and company are doing a good job I hope I never see them do a bad one. Too much reliance on ambitions, targets and management speak - if I was on the front-line I'd want action not promises.

The public which includes various political persuasions is for the most part doing its duty and observing the necessary restrictions but they are all watching very keenly the people in charge because their actions will impact on every household in the country. It isn't only so called left-wingers who are critical of some of the issues that are causing anxiety.

Paul Hewitt
189 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:38:02
Eric paul@187. Sorry mate,but if people like you keep defending these millionaire's. Then no wonder they try to get away with it.
Billy Roberts
190 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:38:28
Dave @185
What's a twat Government, erm one like this.
As for how Jeremy Corbyn would have dealt with it we will never know, all I know is Corbyn wanted more investment in the NHS, that was always his mantra.
I can't deny any Government or Prime minister will have struggled with this crisis but what is undeniable is we had about a 6 week head start on China to prepare for this, as we stand we still haven't got testing.
My wife is a community nurse and was given masks just last week which are now deemed useless no PPE, and critically still no testing.
I would say that was almost a dereliction of duty on the Governments behalf wouldn't you.
Tony Abrahams
191 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:40:26
I would have preferred Corbyn in charge Dave, simply because I think Boris, is a buffoon, and is not likely to have many sensible friends, but I'd still be frightened though mate, and will be until a vaccine is found.
Paul Birmingham
192 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:46:00
Colin@132, is right and that's reality.

Let's see if these poor urchins, ( my arse) - ex players and current players of the EPL, don't grow some Courage, soon, and do the right things, for fellow mankind.

These losers have no idea.

1984 and Band Aid, clearly mankind in context of football has not learned anything.

Derek Taylor
193 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:46:13
So let's forget about football and the greedy bastards who play the game and concentrate on left-wing politics. Change the name to Toffeepols !
Eric Paul
194 Posted 03/04/2020 at 19:53:01
What did I say to make you think I'm defending millionaires,far from it but I think we all have a part to play pro rata.
Jay Harris
196 Posted 03/04/2020 at 20:32:42
I don't just think Johnson and his cronies have done a bad job I think its all the world leaders with possibly Germany getting a pass.

Youve got G7 and economic get togethers but where was the joint discussion and planning when this thing broke and so much for the European union if you could ever call it that. Where was the help for Italy and then Spain.

Politicians worldwide are no longer in it for principle they are in it for self gain.

I am certainly not a left winger but at the end of the day if you don't look after the less well off then don't expect them to look after you.

Steavey Buckley
197 Posted 03/04/2020 at 20:40:07
It could be 2 years (even longer) before life gets back to normal because this virus is not going to go away because it is an inconvenience to others. The only thing that may get rid of it is a vaccine, but with flu vaccinations may still return every year, but still can kill the youngest and fittest as well as the vulnerable.
Michael Lynch
198 Posted 03/04/2020 at 20:47:26
Jay @147

You seem to think corporations are people, like "Joe and Jane", but they're not, they're legal entities. They only exist to make profits for their shareholders. They pay tax on their profits, and what remains of those profits after paying corporation tax is distributed in the form of dividends, which are again taxed when they reach "Joe and Jane" - the shareholders. Of course, if you have a personal pension, I would imagine that you can ask that the dividends your fund manager receives are sent straight to the government, if you think corporations' profits should be more highly taxed.

Ireland receives around 18% of its total tax intake in the form of corporation taxes. The UK receives less than 10% of its total tax intake via corporation tax. And yet, Ireland is one of Europe's biggest tax havens, with a corporation tax rate of just 12.5% as against the UK which charges 19%.

So, the lesson seems to be, the lower the corporation tax, the bigger the receipts, and those who think corporations should give governments more of their profits should send anything they have in Stocks and Shares ISAs or pension funds straight to their local tax office.

Christ, I'll be glad when the football is back.

Paul Tran
199 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:04:18
Darren #160, I'm not letting footballers off the hook. In my view, there's plenty in front of them in the queue. My machine gun needs more bullets.

Dave #185. I love it You criticise Johnson, you're 'left wing'. Clearly, truth and competence are left wing these days, eh?

Jay Wood

200 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:12:17
Michael @ 198.

And your post is an equally simplistic one.

I made no such claim that corporations are people, like Joe and Jane. YOU made that association.

Yes, they're legal entities. But to describe them as 'only existing to make profits for their shareholders' is an extremely naive view.

Practically every mega corporation which are now household names started as small family businesses. Many of those founding families retain the majority of shareholdings in the business. So in that regard they are like Joe and Jane.

So individuals, the controlling families, are very much the major beneficiaries of paid dividends.

The dividends, as you correctly state, are taxed again when they reach ALL Joes and Janes - the shareholders - large and small.

Why you see fit to make the snide remark about anyone holding a (very modest) personal pension should request such (taxed!) dividends be sent straight to the government rather than benefit from a lifetime of labour and contributing to a pension fund, well...only you know.

You tell but half the story. 'Offshore tax sheltering' as corporate tax avoidance is euphemistically called tells another. Indeed, some are so adept at it they EARN tax subsidies, rather than merely avoid higher taxes.

Kieran Kinsella
201 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:13:18
Playing devil's advocate

PFA may worry that teams cut player salaries but then turn around and spend that money by trying to snag Messi or Ronaldo once this settles down.

Clubs may worry if they cut wages that players would be a)more likely to leave e.g. Kane at Spurs and b)their transfer values would decrease exponentially.

Solution: Do what Henderson proposes. Don't cut salaries unless clubs plan to payback season ticket holders and BT sport viewers pound for pound. Instead have players direct 50% of their money to NHS or other needy causes. That way we ensure the money is put to good use at a societal level, and not used by clubs to manipulate FFP rules, or save cash for the next window. Also, there PFA can have no qualms about money being misdirected. It's simply a case of are you a Scrooge on Christmas Eve or a Scrooge on Christmas Day e.g. not a Scrooge.

Other point I would make is that not everyone does things for publicity. There may be players already, quietly and independently shoving boat loads of cash to needy causes. I presume many aren't but I like think some of them are

Billy Roberts
202 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:25:19
Kieran @201 and others,
Do you read other people's posts?
Brian Wilkinson
203 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:34:21
Ray@118, sorry for the delay in my reply, I have seen many posts from Sam on here, was not aware of his acting or writing, learn something new everyday.

Well sam a big thumbs up to you for a fine programe, will have to watch Episode 4 again.

Kieran Kinsella
204 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:39:17
Billy 202

Yeah I read your post at 130 where you said "Was there a similar NHS crisis in 17-18?" and Eric's at 150 and I pointed out your error of mentioning the NHS existing at time when in fact the NHS didn't even exist but you then took offence to that "history lesson."

So, how should I proceed going forward? read your posts and correct your false information, not read your posts, or read your posts and pretend false information is accurate? Please advise. Cheers!

Brian Wilkinson
205 Posted 03/04/2020 at 21:41:26
A few posters are talking about the Premier League even contemplating behind closed doors in the future to complete the season.

Now I am one bitter Blue first and foremost, however, there is no way they should play the remaining fixtures without supporters at the stadium.

Hate our neighbours with a passion, yes we could say Karma, but as a football fan even through gritted teeth, those season ticket holders across the park deserve to have the right to be at the game, if and only when we get through this, but all the Premier League are thinking about is money and completing their contract to the broadcasting companies, screw the fans if needed we play behind closed doors, that cannot be right for any match going supporter.

Paul Hewitt
206 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:00:33
Give the rs the title. Void the rest of the season. It won't mean anything anyway. This season is a total write-off.
Billy Roberts
207 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:15:57

This is becoming genuinely comical. I suggest you read my post at 184 which explains that myself and Eric were discussing flu fatalities from the year 2017-18. In case you never noticed this for the third time, 2017-18 was the year we were discussing. I would suggest you read other people's posts at least out of courtesy before you "educate" us.

I am familiar about the Spanish Flu and its deadly toll. I was also aware that the NHS didn't exist in 1917. I would imagine Eric is very much aware of these facts also.

Over to you, now I would suggest you read my post slowly and, like I said, go back to post 97 onwards.

Eric Paul
208 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:17:43
Paul Hewitt
209 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:26:56
Eric Paul. In the future people will look at this season as not important. The rs winning it won't mean anything.
Kieran Kinsella
210 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:32:05
Paul 209,

Agreed. Think back to 85-86 if we'd had a 4-month delay. Southall could've recovered and replaced Mimms thus giving us a better shot at the double.

If and when it returns, various injured players will be back giving a different outcome than had there been no interruptions. Therefore, to me, it will always be one of those titles with an asterisk beside it.

Eric Paul
211 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:42:07

I was referring to post 194, I would love the red shite to win the league as it would mean this nightmare is over and people would not be losing their lives and livelihoods.

Patrick McFarlane
212 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:46:18
Stand by for live broadcasts for Saturday 3pm kick-offs when 19-20 season restarts as Uefa have waived their ban after the English and Scottish FA's lobbied to remove that restriction. Massive viewing figures but empty stadiums??
Kieran Kinsella
213 Posted 03/04/2020 at 22:57:46

I guess it won't hurt smaller clubs if no one has fans. But you're still talking about scores of people in close proximity. So what's the safe number 50? 100? 200 with police etc. in which case part time teams could say “well we only attract 100 fans, no media so why can't we play if city can. Who needs the money more?” Behind closed doors opens up a can of worns

Graeme Beresford
214 Posted 03/04/2020 at 23:05:47
Wait a sec. Are clubs finally realising nobody should be paid 𧴜k a week to kick a ball around a field? Wow, only takes a worldwide disaster hey.
Brian Williams
215 Posted 03/04/2020 at 23:13:42
What's with the term "deferrals?"

Deferrals are no good that's merely delaying payment. Accepting a reduction now to be repaid at a later date surely isn't what this is about!!!!

Brian Wilkinson
216 Posted 03/04/2020 at 23:55:03
Just a change of subject, is anyone else having problems clicking into mystery player 4 Eric.

Coming up as page cannot be displayed, from an iPad on google.

Billy Roberts
217 Posted 04/04/2020 at 00:03:57
Kieran Kinsella,

Do you have your fingers in your ears humming loudly?

Answer my post @207, go on mate, do the right thing.

Lloyd Brodrick
218 Posted 04/04/2020 at 00:33:24
So what was the Sky and BT sports strategy in 17-18 then? :)
Paul Hewitt
219 Posted 04/04/2020 at 00:47:10
I've supported Everton for 40 years. I had a season ticket for 20 years. But the money involved had killed it for me. If it never returned, would it bother me? NO.
Si Cooper
220 Posted 04/04/2020 at 01:46:29
Kieran, it would require an asterisk for many related reasons but I don't think any of them would significantly resemble your Southall / Mimms example, unless the RS fail to win it.

I think Paul's point is it is never actually important who wins it if you weigh it against tragic loss of life so Covid-19 has reduced the conclusion of the 2019-20 EPL to a minority interest side-show.

Eric Myles
221 Posted 04/04/2020 at 02:00:24
Kieran #171, my original post was about a worse crisis in 2017-18.

Just 2 years ago.

Eric Myles
222 Posted 04/04/2020 at 02:11:57
I see Billy's covered the years issue.
Eric Myles
223 Posted 04/04/2020 at 02:22:54
I see that some broadcasters intend to withhold their payments meaning that clubs incomes will be reduced.

If the players don't take pay cuts, clubs may well go bankrupt and then they'll have no teams to play for.

Mark Andersson
224 Posted 04/04/2020 at 02:47:28
Can we have a new thread something else to debate. I'm enjoying life on the dole, catching up with the gardening, house DIY and watching some good tv on Netflix.

I recommend Vietnam. A harrowing account of the war. It really beggars belief how politicians to save face are prepared to send thousands of young men to their death.

Nothing changes; no lessons learned in this mad insane world.

Steve Brown
225 Posted 04/04/2020 at 04:16:24
Looks like the managers and players have bypassed the PFA to agree a 30% wage cut. The PFA have got this seriously wrong.
Alan J Thompson
226 Posted 04/04/2020 at 05:07:39
Mark (#224); Enjoying life gardening, DIY and watching the idiot box?

Go and get yourself tested, mate, something definitely not right there.

Alan J Thompson
227 Posted 04/04/2020 at 05:38:34
PS; How's the gout?
Mark Andersson
228 Posted 04/04/2020 at 06:07:53
Alan J:

I've been tested, doctors give me the all clear physically but my mental health is an issue due to reading too much ToffeeWeb, haha!

Another thing I do to pass the time is write songs and produce videos like this one..

The gout is PAINFUL!

The Truth Will Set You Free.

Derek Knox
229 Posted 04/04/2020 at 07:18:17
Mark @228, eagerly awaiting to sample your artistry as a lyricist, instrumentalist and possible exponent of Terpsichorean Skills. I must relay that I am extremely disappointed, that link does not work! :-)
Jeff Spiers
230 Posted 04/04/2020 at 07:58:59
I'm trying to finish the garden, but I get sharp sand, paving anywhere!!!
John Keating
231 Posted 04/04/2020 at 08:04:18
The talks and meetings are never ending
Decisions should have been made immediately after games were suspended.

What still pisses me off is the fact that our own team have not taken a lead on this from day one.

A few of them made a few phone calls to older and more vulnerable supporters, theClub announced they would honour payments to part time staff, in the scheme of things that's nowt.

The players and management should have taken massive cuts, no deferrals. Cuts could have subsidised non playing staff with the remainder given to local charities, help groups and non league teams.
A player on 30k a week even after a 30% cut still gets an obscene amount in the present situation and climate.

I am really disappointed with the Club, we have missed the chance to not only lead but to prove we really do care about the support and wider community.
People's Club my arse!

Brian Williams
232 Posted 04/04/2020 at 08:56:02
John. There's no need to subsidise non playing staff as the club's paying them in full mate.

Jerome Shields
233 Posted 04/04/2020 at 09:08:43
Reference my post #169

Apologies to Harry Maguire, obviously he was mid quoted in the Newspaper report I read.

John Keating
234 Posted 04/04/2020 at 09:14:13
That's good Brian then more money for others
Steve Carse
235 Posted 04/04/2020 at 10:47:42
I can't believe the vitriol in so many posts on this subject.
WE, whether we go to games or not, and whether we like or dislike the way football has changed, have helped to create the monster that we now have. Yet here we are now, attacking the very people WE have hoisted onto pedestals and provided huge salaries for; people who overwhelmingly have come from low or standard income backgrounds (and extreme poverty in the case of some). As club supporters we pressure our clubs to find the money ('whatever it takes') to land a player we think will improve the chances of success. Yet now we're demanding that they be forced to give away significant proportions of their salaries. Even a 10% rate across every PL club would be worth around £400m, but here I'm reading suggestions of 30%, 50% and even upward of that. Why on earth should such a massive imposition be hoisted upon such a small group of people? Why not turn our sights on film stars and other groups who benefit from having what are deemed to be rare talents?
Instead, a more rational approach would be to introduce a new emergency (temporary?) high rate tax band, with the extra revenue generated being earmarked for coronavirus related issues and support, in all its guises. That would impact all high earners, not just those referenced by a government Minister hopelessly out of his depth.
I think we would all agree that whole football industry in this country is in urgent need of investigation and reform. I'm just not sure that reactions of the type suggested in this thread take us any nearer to such a review.
Steve Carse
236 Posted 04/04/2020 at 10:47:43
I can't believe the vitriol in so many posts on this subject.
WE, whether we go to games or not, and whether we like or dislike the way football has changed, have helped to create the monster that we now have. Yet here we are now, attacking the very people WE have hoisted onto pedestals and provided huge salaries for; people who overwhelmingly have come from low or standard income backgrounds (and extreme poverty in the case of some). As club supporters we pressure our clubs to find the money ('whatever it takes') to land a player we think will improve the chances of success. Yet now we're demanding that they be forced to give away significant proportions of their salaries. Even a 10% rate across every PL club would be worth around £400m, but here I'm reading suggestions of 30%, 50% and even upward of that. Why on earth should such a massive imposition be hoisted upon such a small group of people? Why not turn our sights on film stars and other groups who benefit from having what are deemed to be rare talents?
Instead, a more rational approach would be to introduce a new emergency (temporary?) high rate tax band, with the extra revenue generated being earmarked for coronavirus related issues and support, in all its guises. That would impact all high earners, not just those referenced by a government Minister hopelessly out of his depth.
I think we would all agree that whole football industry in this country is in urgent need of investigation and reform. I'm just not sure that reactions of the type suggested in this thread take us any nearer to such a review.
Mike Benjamin
237 Posted 04/04/2020 at 11:41:06
Steve 235. Excellent idea. A temporary higher rate tax would be a brilliant way of not singling out premier footballers who are an easy target. I haven't heard calls for Lewis Hamilton or Andy Murray, for example, being outed in the same way. There will be people, with money, who will make a fortune out of the current situation. those investing during the lows of the stock market even those who bet that the market would fall.
Kim Vivian
238 Posted 04/04/2020 at 11:44:46
Steve - Agree with you - that deserves to be stated twice!
Hugh Jenkins
239 Posted 04/04/2020 at 11:59:36
Lots of calls for players to take a pay cut of between 10% and 70% on here and on other sites.

What I have not seen is any suggestion as to what should be done with the sacrificed wages?

If the players agree to the sacrifice, but the clubs keep the money - then it is the clubs that benefit.

By far the best suggestion is that the Chancellor makes an emergent increase in the rate of tax for those who's taxable income exceeds 𧵎.000.00 per annum

Ian Bennett
240 Posted 04/04/2020 at 12:05:21
A couple of comments.

Donations come out of their gross salary, so the tax man losses out on 45% of any 'gift'. These player pledges cost them half of the reported amount in their take home pay.

I see that Danny Rose is telling politicians to keep their nose out. That's right he's unhappy that politicians are saying give up some of your salary, when his contracted club have put non playing staff in furlough at government expense.

I understand that Lewis Hamilton is a tax exile. Many of the super rich just don't pay tax in the UK. Either their wealth or themselves is held offshore, to avoid UK tax.

Rob Halligan
241 Posted 04/04/2020 at 12:28:28
For those who think Everton players are doing nothing, then take a look at what Richarlison and Yerry Mina are currently doing. Whilst I suppose they have no affiliation to the people of this country, it's good to see they are helping people out in their homeland .

Tony Heron
242 Posted 04/04/2020 at 12:56:31
Steve @236 Brilliant idea re tax. If they do it the Tory Party will really have turned into Labour. (Don't hold your breath)!
Chris Williams
243 Posted 04/04/2020 at 13:10:38
Nice to read Rob,

I suppose many overseas players are brought up in a culture where support in family and community are given high prominence, especially in some less well off areas, where the hardship caused by all of this will be felt much harder.

Kieran Kinsella
244 Posted 04/04/2020 at 13:45:01
Billy Roberts,

Jeremy Corbin as party leader has never been on the winning side in a general election. It would be completely illegal for him to order emergency services etc around during the crisis. Probably even treasonous.

Ian Bennett
245 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:17:47
Liverpool furloughing non playing staff. You'll never walk alone my arse.
Dave Ganley
246 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:28:59
I see the gobshites have put some non playing staff on furlough. It's just so crass to have footballers on such obscene wages and then clubs effectively scrounging off the government. Cheeky bastards the lot of them. Furlough was brought in to help small businesses from folding and keep staff employed when businesses would really struggle and now these bloody football clubs are taking the piss claiming for this while players are still being paid hollywood wages. They deserve all the stick they get, fucking mercenaries. No class, no heart.

It's the clubs I hold accountable not necessarily the players, they're just overpaid wankers. The club's meanwhile are funding these overpaid wankers. The clubs are the villains in this scenario, pandering to these wankers and fucking off the actual workers who earn modest wages. So hardfaced. I hope some of them do go out of business.

Alan J Thompson
247 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:31:53
Kieran (#244);
Mike Benjamin
248 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:33:17
The statement from the shite

A Liverpool statement said: "Even prior to the decision on staff furloughing, there was a collective commitment at senior levels of the club - on and off the pitch - with everyone working towards a solution that secures jobs for employees of the club during this unprecedented crisis.

"There is ongoing active engagement about the topic of salary deductions during the period matches are not being played to schedule. These discussions are complex and as a result the process is ongoing."

Their supporters should be embarrassed at this move. If we can protect our employees during the crises why can't they with their financial strength? Lack of class and morality, just another example to add to Hysel, the way they forced people out of their homes to rebuild the Kemlyn Road.

Alan J Thompson
249 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:42:24
It makes you wonder how the governing bodies of football are planning to finish this curtailed season in the next few months while richer clubs are laying off lower paid employees even though some Maintenance and Grounds staff would still be required. Anyone any idea of the numbers involved?
Alan McGuffog
250 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:42:36
I'm sure I'll be corrected of I'm wrong. Something is still puzzling me (said in a Columbo like voice, at the front door).

Clubs continue to pay vast amounts of money to their "talent"? Fair enough. Clubs, in agreement with lesser mortals, such as office staff, will furlough these staff?

Clubs claim 80% of salary for the rank and file from the public purse under this scheme? The public purse is not "Government " is our money. No?

Clubs continue to pay vast sums to the "talent". And the wheels on the bus go round and round?

Steve... 235.. splendid suggestion. Was an honour to study economics with you. Stay safe.

Bill Gall
251 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:46:16
I see in this age of a pandemic, where countries and supposed allies are asked to help each other out,

Mr Trump has hijacked a shipment of medical masks sent to Germany that is used by the medical staff in the hospitals and ordered 3M who manufacture these masks not to send any of these masks to Canada.

The irony of this, is the material used to make these masks is manufactured in Canada.

Mike Benjamin
252 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:46:17
Again let's not tar all clubs with the same brush!
Tony Everan
253 Posted 04/04/2020 at 15:58:02
Steve 236, The temporary tax over 𧵎 000 is a good idea and a fair one too. It means there's no witch hunt on any particular sector.
Kieran Kinsella
254 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:19:29

Imagine during "The Great Recession" if the big banks had continued to pay huge bonuses to execs but then asked the government to pay wages of cashiers?

I realize the Premier League didn't "create" the current situation. But, they did greedily help to create a precarious environment where they're riding high on the hog paying 80% of their income to players. Relying on TV money with no back-up plan for a loss of that revenue.

There are lots of restaurants, pubs, shops etc where owners have worked 80 hours a week and struggled to keep their heads above water. When the economy crashed, those people were screwed. Why should the government indirectly supplement wages for Klopp and Co by covering other employee wages so Liverpool can keep paying top dollar to their privileged stars?

Eric Myles
255 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:35:33
A temporary tax won't work, if the clubs don't receive income then they can't pay players who then owe no taxes, and at the moment the clubs receive no income and may even have to return some of the money they have already received in sponsorship and broadcast revenues.

The only sensible solution is to reduce payments to the highest earners. Otherwise furlough the players and make them live off ٠,500 a week or most football clubs will go bankrupt, including ours.

Lewis Hamilton is not a UK resident so has no obligation to pay tax in UK, only in the country in which he is resident. And he and other F1 drivers have agreed to pay cuts.

Kevin Naylor
256 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:38:58
RS announcing they are furloughing staff, typical gobshites.
Eric Myles
257 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:43:34
Alan J #249, there's a difference between furlough, and lay-off.
Eric Myles
258 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:47:27
Alan Mc #250, I'm afraid that, once the government has taken your money off you, it is no longer yours, it's theirs to do with as they want.
Mike Benjamin
259 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:50:29
Alan 255. The temporary tax would apply to payments received by people, e.g. players. The players will still receive their wages, whether weekly or monthly, even though there are no games being played, just like they during the close season.
Mike Gaynes
260 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:55:11
Off-topic... (but it anything off-topic right now?)... here's a way to fill a pleasant hour -- visit with an old friend.

A colleague of mine lives in Minnesota, and his son plays in the youth program at the MLS club Minnesota United. The gaffer of that club is Adrian Heath, who has been managing on our side of the pond since 2008.

The club has posted a podcast interview with Adrian, sharing some nice memories with veteran football commentator Callum Williams. 0/04/01/coaches-corner-adrian- heath

Alan J Thompson
261 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:55:36
Probably not in next week's pay packet, Eric, and if we are being pedantic it is not from the military either.
Tony Williams
262 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:57:05
Football has to be stopped immediately. All the Premier League are worried about is money. The National, Olympics, Rugby, Cricket, Wimbledon and the Belgium League have all ceased immediately. Lives are more important than a game of football.


To reiterate, this season should immediately termed null and void. Premier League and Football League, ACT NOW, as you see loved ones losing their lives.

Eric Myles
263 Posted 04/04/2020 at 16:59:26
I think you don't understand the contractual difference between lay off and furlough Alan J.

One means the employee no longer works for you and the other means that they still do.

I'll let you work out which is which.

Kieran Kinsella
264 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:00:44
Mike Gaynes

Cheers for the link. Anything Adrian Heath related is more on topic than about 90% of TW during the current situation. I didn't realize he had inched up to Minnesota (get it?). I remember he was down in Orlando a few years back.

Eric Myles
265 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:03:10
Mike #259, if you are addressing my post at #255, my point is that clubs cannot continue to pay players when they are not receiving revenues.

So no revenue means no salary which means no tax collected.

Patrick McFarlane
266 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:12:06
Don't Everton borrow the TV money via a loan?

Perhaps that's why we can pay the non-playing staff and others can't?

Kieran Kinsella
267 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:16:50
Eric @265,

Clubs aren't receiving revenue now but just because there is a dip in revenue it doesn't mean they no longer have an obligation to pay wages from cash reserves, credit etc. If they get to the point where they are insolvent, administrators step in and even then wages due are a priority ahead of other costs such as debt payments.

So they can't just say "we don't have revenue right now so we're not going to pay you." They can say "we don't have revenue now so it would help prevent eventual insolvency if you take a pay cut." But if the players so "nope" then they have to keep paying and the government keep gathering tax.

Eric Myles
268 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:30:10
Kieran, that's why I said the players need to take a reduced salary, or be furloughed, otherwise a majority of clubs will be insolvent.
Eric Myles
269 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:36:32
Re: my post #255. I think that should be ٠,500 a month, not a week, before tax and NI deductions.
Rennie Smith
270 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:49:54
"Liverpool place some non-playing staff on furlough" on the BBC. Nice also to see the following quote "The member of stuff added that they were "disappointed, especially after Everton said they were not doing it".

What a disgrace, should we expect any less from them?

Martin Nicholls
271 Posted 04/04/2020 at 17:58:32
Rennie - I'd expect nothing less from them than to cosy up to the likes of Ashley and Levy. Unsurprisingly, no condemnation of this shameful theft from the general public in the red Echo.
Rob Halligan
272 Posted 04/04/2020 at 18:09:09
The following is a quote from Carragher, criticising the shite putting some non playing staff on furlough. Believe me, that scumbag of a club do not care for the local community, and now it seems, don't care for their staff. I've got first hand knowledge of this, but that's for another day.

The decision to furlough some non-playing staff was criticised on Twitter by former Liverpool captain Jamie Carragher.

He tweeted: "Jurgen Klopp showed compassion for all at the start of this pandemic, senior players heavily involved in Premier League players taking wage cuts. Then all that respect and goodwill is lost - poor this, LFC."

Ken Kneale
273 Posted 04/04/2020 at 18:10:01
I am not always that keen on the BBC reporting but in fairness, they are one of the few to promulgate that quote. Sky for instance make it a pro Liverpool storyline and as Martin 271 says, the Echo seems to have cosied up as usual. We have much to criticise Everton over in recent decades, but we should applaud the humanity and class displayed on this.
Peter Neilson
275 Posted 04/04/2020 at 18:13:35
I'm amazed that they still don't get it. It's staggeringly out of touch with how the majority of people are being impacted by this. Have to hope that HMRC tells all these clubs to get stuffed.
John Pierce
276 Posted 04/04/2020 at 18:52:43
So here's the rub? If the Premier League and other sponsors had not given or will not give their money to the clubs then I could see the rational argument to say we've lost money and therefore we can furlough staff. (There's no moral argument for me at all btw.) But I could see the logic.

But all clubs are still receiving this money because the clubs want the season to finish so they get their payouts, this integrity bs is spouted by players, club and media is grotesque. So if you are not losing money through you main source of income then there is no justification ever not to pay your staff and take from others less well off. Remember there is no tax revenue because there is no revenue being created for many businesses.

Any big business currently posting profit and or businesses over a particular size should be excluded from the scheme and made to pay their workforce or face penalty. Absolutely no bonuses or dividends should be paid until staff are paid, a penalty should be issued by the government, it's about saving and sustaining not making a profit at this time. I'm so aggravated by the football world!!!

Tony Abrahams
277 Posted 04/04/2020 at 19:01:55
The only good news I've heard today is that the opposition have now got a proper leader in office, a man with a lot more intelligence and integrity than the current token in charge.

But the death-toll keeps on rising as we all wait for a day, hopefully not too far in the distance, even though every day currently seems like a week, when this horrible virus can finally be contained... please god.

Peter Neilson
278 Posted 04/04/2020 at 19:13:52
Tony, I agree, he got my vote. Only hope he doesn't touch the Torys with a any coalition offer. The state of the NHS, politically motivated austerity that decimated public services and the continual mishandling of the crisis is on their watch. Let them be held to account.
Robert Williams
279 Posted 04/04/2020 at 19:32:21
EM 263 So lay off and furlough are not like 'fuck off'? Is that what you are saying?
Brian Williams
280 Posted 04/04/2020 at 19:36:16
I know nothing about politics but my son takes a great interest and he says today's result marks "the end of socialist labour."

Any opinions anybody?

Peter Neilson
281 Posted 04/04/2020 at 19:51:18
Brian I'd argue Labour with an unelectable leader is useless anyway. Let's see how Keir Starmer, who is a socialist, leads the party over the coming months. I'm hopeful. Of course, as we so often say, its the hope that kills you.
Paul Birmingham
282 Posted 04/04/2020 at 20:18:13
Well after their ridiculous ECL plot to beat Madrid despite government health warnings, and thus helping spread COVID19 across the region, they classless RS, have shown their true colours, today.

Total lack of compassion and knowledge of their own people.

Great that EFC is setting the standard and upholding decency and values of humanity and understanding for its supporters and employees.

Chris Williams
283 Posted 04/04/2020 at 20:28:50

The clue is in his name. Keir, after the founding father of the Labour Party.

He is a socialist but without the stupid Bennite baggage and 70s attitudes that should have been binned decades ago. Also without surrounding himself with unelected idiots who surrounded Corbyn, and facilitated Antisemitsm.

He's someone who has actually done something with his life outside politics.

He will still have to contend with the Mail, Telegraph, Murdoch outlets, all owned by people who tend not to pay their taxes in this country, not to mention the swivel eyed bloggers of social media.

Dave Brierley
284 Posted 04/04/2020 at 20:49:26
Oh Chris, you poor misguided fool. The Labour Party is doomed.

They've replaced an old middle-class Islington Socialist with a younger upper-class millionaire Islington socialist with a knighthood.

On with the revolution, comrades.

Steve Ferns
285 Posted 04/04/2020 at 20:51:28
Brian, he was a very effective Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). The DPP is the boss of the CPS and is a political position. He was appointed by a Blair government and knighted under the Cameron government. He has a reputation as a very good human rights barrister and the CPS were in the best shape in my career, under him. I never worked for the CPS, always against them, but I always thought he was a man who would go far.

As for his politics, he's showed just how good he is by sliding through without getting pigeon holed into being a Corbynite or a Blairite. The reality is that he's a moderate and a shrewd operator. He will not be anywhere near socialist for most labour diehards. But he can get elected. Wait and see how he will run rings round that buffoon in PMQs.

Most staunch labour voters hate Blair, but he's the only elected labour PM in my lifetime. So I'd ask the ones that hate Blair, which Tory PM was better than Blair, starting with Thatcher and going to present day. Of course, I'm excluding Brown as he lost the only election he contended.

For me, the only way Labour can win elections is with a moderate in charge. Sir Keir Starmer can win elections, and I expect the next one is not too soon, judging on the way the buffoon has handled the current crisis. But we need the likes of the unions not to knife Starmer in the back and to let him do what he needs to win the middle ground. Corbyn concentrated for too long on the people who would vote for him anyway and never tried to get the people he needed. Starmer can win middle-class votes. He can be the next PM and it's some good news on an otherwise bleak day for me.

Steve Ferns
286 Posted 04/04/2020 at 20:53:24
Dave, Keir Starmer comes from a working-class family. His mother was a nurse who became wheelchair-bound after contracting Still's Disease. And his father was, like mine, a toolmaker.
Sam Barrett
287 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:00:48
Dave, you belong with the RS furloughing their local employees. Next time you clap the NHs workers, remember when you voted that you voted in this very scenario.
Jay Wood

288 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:21:31
Hmmm...I know the square sum of zero about the new Labour leader Kier Starmer. It will be interesting to see how he shapes the party at this critical time.

His 10-point plan echo many a political manifesto, but I must say I am a little disturbed that he specifically apologised for the 'stain of anti-Semitism that has tainted Labour in recent years,' pledging to 'tear out this poison by its roots' and concluding his success would be judged on whether former Jewish members return to Labour.

I was always puzzled as to why Labour didn't push back against those allegations. There is a considerable body of evidence that Israeli-state sponsored lobby groups in the UK systematically conducted - and continue to conduct - smear campaigns to gain influence in British politics.

It wasn't just high-profile Labour politicians they targeted, but grass root members such as Jackie Walker.

Jackie is a British-American of Caribean descent - an anti-racism activist and (was) a member of the Jewish Voice For Labour's group.

The link below is a website on which you can learn more and watch an hour long documentary on the question of Labour's alleged anti-Semitism which might just leave you puzzled. Appropriately, it is called 'Witch Hunt'.


As one Jewish Labour member says in the documentary, it's just a few years ago that Labour voted in a Jew as their party leader, defeating his brother and fellow Jew in the process. That if the Labour party was anti-semitic, it was the most incompetent anti-semitic movement in the history of the world!

Chris Williams
289 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:23:48
Thanks Dave.

Tony Hill
290 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:29:16
Tony @284, exactly. If Everton do anything like this, I will never forgive them. What greedy bastards FSG must be.

As for Starmer, who knows? I don't share Steve's optimism, I am afraid. I think this fella is a dullard and I think it's a bad mistake to underrate Johnson - that's why we lost the last election so badly - but let's see what the new man actually does. I'd have gone for Lisa Nandy.

Steve Ferns
291 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:36:08
Jay, you raise an interesting point. The whole Luciana Berger affair is a case in point. You take a very disgruntled constituency who did not like its MP but voted for her in overwhelming numbers out of party loyalty, and then try to get her de-selected and suddenly a lobby group is able to find some choice comments by a few idiots (amongst ordinary people who are simply party members and not actual politicians) to deflect from the real issue and instead of it being Berger not properly representing the people she's elected to represent it became about antisemitism. There's no doubt that the people making those comments should have been thrown out, but the MP was under fire for the right reasons, not because of her religion.
Chris Williams
292 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:55:48
Jay, Steve,

The saying that perception is reality applies here. The overwhelming perception is that Labour is anti-Semitic and whether it is correct, or partly correct or bullshit is largely irrelevant. It is likely all of those things, but sadly it is reality in the eyes of people who vote. It is their reality.

For Starmer to move Labour forward, it needs sorting.

Tony Everan
293 Posted 04/04/2020 at 21:58:52
Starmer is a million times more electable in the marginal seats than Corbyn would ever be. Especially down south.

The tories will know they have to characterise him as a rampant europhile, they will take every opportunity to fix that image in the minds of their newly aquired Northern constituents. Kier will have to counter that successfully to stand a chance. If he can achieve that I think he is the best man they've got to deliver a narrow Labour win in 2024.

Tony Hill
294 Posted 04/04/2020 at 22:04:49
The Jewish reaction to the election result was one of almost unanimous relief. The Labour Party had a leader who crassly associated himself with anti-semites - see his stupid support in 2018 for a patently anti-semitic effort by Mear One - worthy of the Nazis; see also his idiotic attendance at the wreath laying for Black September Munich murderers.

Thank goodness this fool has gone.

Dave Brierley
295 Posted 04/04/2020 at 22:04:54
Steve, like most on here I respect your views on a lot of topics. Your judgement is almost always sound although (Silva. well? ). However your assertion that Keir Starmer was a "very effective DPP" is seriously questionable; Here is just a sample of his tenure.

Decided not to prosecute John Worboys for 75 sex assaults

Yet spent four years failing to prosecute 23 Sun journalists

Insisted on prosecuting Paul Chambers for making a light-hearted joke on social media (the infamous Twitter joke trial)

Failed to build a case against Jimmy Savile and forced to apologise after being damned by report into failings.

Repeatedly championed the innocence of convicted murderer who later admitted that he was actually guilty

Failed to prosecute police officer who killed newspaper vendor Ian Tomlinson

Ordered the CPS in Wales to drop the prosecution of a primary school teacher who had been accused of sexting a 16 year old boy, who went on to commit suicide

Damning report into Starmer's tenure at the CPS showed it was performing well below the necessary standard, with the report attributing part of the blame to an ‘overload of initiatives' from the CPS' national leadership

Survey of CPS staff found that just 12% of them thought that the organisation was being well managed under Starmer's leadership

Accused of reopening a spurious sex abuse case involving a friend of Tom Watson – the accused was cleared in an hour

Chose not to prosecute two doctors accused of carrying out abortions on grounds of gender

This guy Steve is incompetent. But he was the best of the candidates in the view of the Labour faithful. Sad days for Labour.

Tony Abrahams
296 Posted 04/04/2020 at 22:17:17
Steve@286, thanks for that sensible post mate, and then @287, for putting the record straight.

So tactless calling someone as easy going and intelligent as Chris W, a poor misguided fool imo Dave, especially because he's telling us about a man, who has made a big success out of his life, before deciding to become a politician, and not one who has been spoon-fed for most of his life.

Not many politicians come across as decent, but that's my first impression of Kier Stammer, and decency is what we definitely need in everyday life right now, especially when it's matched with a good brain!

Steve Ferns
297 Posted 04/04/2020 at 22:18:28
Dave, I don't know if you are in the profession or not, but as an opponent of the CPS on a day-to-day basis, his tenure was the clear high point of the CPS in my eyes.

The state of the CPS right now is despicable. They are simply not fit for purpose. They have dropped cases against me where they only had to get their house in order to secure conviction and cannot simply do the basics. Sure a lot of the blame also shifts onto the police and comes down to funding issues, but there was none of this under Starmer.

They were far more efficient and far more formidable than they are right now and they keep conviction rates high by under charging and “cracking” everything they can. You might want to pick on a few isolated things but just wait for a few years and see how his successors are judged. The man was an excellent DPP.

Tony Abrahams
298 Posted 04/04/2020 at 22:32:32
If you have seen some of the jokes flying round about Liverpool FC right now, Patrick, then even if they reverse their decision tomorrow, I'm not sure that even with friends in high places, that this would be enough to help them redeem themselves.


Talk about shooting themselves in the foot, this is the ultimate PR disaster, for the 'we are not English' scousers!

Patrick McFarlane
301 Posted 04/04/2020 at 22:49:09
Jay #302, with all the politics on here I was looking for a post about Arlene Foster. :)
Hugh Jenkins
302 Posted 04/04/2020 at 23:16:58
Jay Wood (289)

I am a great admirer of your posts on all football matters.

I am not at all sure that TW is the correct platform for the discussion of international politics nor religious devotions.

By faith I am a Christian, by history a baptist, by conviction an agnostic.

However, the only credo by which I have tried, systematically to live my adult life is - "Let he amongst you, who is without sin, cast the first stone".

If we all applied that level of judgement, then hopefully, the world would be a kinder place, and politics would be about politics, not religious bias.

David Pearl
303 Posted 04/04/2020 at 00:03:01
Reading through the posts it's interesting to see conversations about the new labour leader. I have attended a couple of election counts over the last few years. My dad being a Jewish councillor in St Helens for around 25 years.

He gets voted in all the time but unfortunately he is left quite a few personal notes on some of the voting papers. Not that it will change just because Corbyn has gone.

Eric Myles
304 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:11:30
John #276, are the clubs still receiving their revenue though?

Why would broadcasters and sponsors make payments if they are getting nothing in return?

Steve Ferns
305 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:12:31
David, sorry to hear that your father suffers abuse for doing his public duty. I assume that the comments on the voting papers mean that they come from the voters themselves, ie, the general population.

Racism in this country was simply locked away in the closet and looked like it had gone away, but quite clearly it hasn't. This is something that we need to change in society and is something that is not something labour should be tackling on their own and there is no quick fix.

Eric Myles
306 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:14:48
Brian #280, Socialist Labour died when they elected Blair as the party leader.
Darren Hind
307 Posted 04/04/2020 at 00:17:39
Hugh 305

Whether you believe Jesus was The Christ or not. I think most of us would accept that he came out with the greatest one-liner of all time

"Let he without sin cast the first stone". I hate it

Its a conversation stopper which nails most of us to the wall...

David Pearl
308 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:24:23
Hi Steve, yes they don't bother to vote. They just leave messages on the voting slip. Pity they don't leave their names. My dad hasn't ever brought it up to anyone.

Glad to see ToffeeWeb is still going strong. I've just started watching all the Sopranos again... for the 4th time.

Dave Brierley
309 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:32:57
Tony 298: last thing I would ever do is offend you but if you read what I wrote in #296 all fact by the way and there's an awful lot more where Keir is concerned, the man's incompetent.

You think he's a decent man, I don't. Time will tell.

Let's leave it there.

Stay safe.

Dave Brierley
310 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:39:34
Steve I agree that the CPS is not fit for purpose now nor was it when Starmer was DPP.

Let's agree to disagree. There's more important things to think about right now.

Look after yourself.

Dave Brierley
311 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:48:44
Chris #290. No offence meant.

You're as entitled to your view as I.

We just happen to differ.

Darren Hind
312 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:55:00
Talking of ill-informed Tory-boy nonsense, does anybody have the latest figures for front-line NHS workers being able to get tested???

Last time I looked, 96% of them were being betrayed...

Dave Brierley
313 Posted 05/04/2020 at 00:56:43
Sam #288.

Stop drinking and keep on your medication.

Eric Myles
314 Posted 05/04/2020 at 01:48:44

An unusually good article on BBC about the option of completing the seaaon, or not.

Jay Wood

315 Posted 05/04/2020 at 03:04:05
Tony @ 295.

Annnndddd...right there you put up a couple of examples how a couple of historical events can be spun and presented as 'evidence' and 'proof positive' of Corbyn's and the Labour Party's 'institutionalised anti-semitism'.

No question!

Only, your post reads like something lifted straight from the Daily Mail [best not look too far back into that newspaper's past and its praise for the rise of facism and Nazi Germany in the 1930s, eh-wot?].

A superficial search of the Corbyn incidents you highlight paints a very different picture to the one you wish to portray.

Chris @ 293.

'The Perception' as you describe it should have, IMO, been challenged and rebutted much more robustly than Corbyn and the Labour Party did.

They allowed others to control that dialogue and 'The Perception'. Labour members themselves contributed to it by 'hen pecking' and 'outing' others on mostly hearsay and little or no proof.

The Witch Hunt documentary exposes this very well. A worthy watch, Chris.

Hugh @ 305.

Thank you for your kind words about my posts on footy matters. That probably puts you in a very small majority on TW!

Can't agree, however, with your belief that TW is not the 'correct platform for the discussion of international politics nor religious devotions.'

Of course, in normal times football should be and is the prime topic. But these are not normal times.

I think that is very much TW's strength and praise is due to the editors for allowing threads to go off-topic. Many, MANY fine threads have blossomed as a result.

Lyndon and Michael are being noticably liberal in this 'sans-football' epoch in allowing side issues - such as today's election of a new Labour leader - a good deal of free reign. Many diverse opinions and interesting debates have flowed from this.

I make no apology for my post @ 289 that you reference.

It is my honestly held opinion given that addressing the question of 'perceived' anti-semitism within the Labour party is a stated policy by the new leader.

The question of politics and politicians, capitalism and corporations, investment in health and education, is very much central to the crisis thrust upon the world by the Covid-19 virus, why all sport (and normal life) has been globally paralysed.

As such, it's only natural reference is made to politics and (by extension) religion.

That was a good one-liner you quoted by JC.

JL - John Lennon - also came out with a good one which demonstrated tolerance to all.

'Whatever gets you through the night, is all right...all right'.

David Pearl. Sorry to hear about the bigotry your father receives via ballot papers in local elections (presumably because of his faith. You don't say). But evidently he is considered a very good man by his community to continually re-elect him to serve for 25 years.

Your example demonstrates the world is infested with bigots and racists (a minority) who apparently were too thick to actually vote to remove your father, being only intent on abusing him.

As such, who can say what their political allegiance is?

John Pierce
316 Posted 05/04/2020 at 06:13:33
Eric, you maybe right re payments. It's an assumption by myself. I understood, loosely, that payments by broadcasters had already been made so contractually unless the games are played they would need to return the cash?

They, the broadcasters need to be sensitive to the situation, demanding the money back if we don't play out the season only hurts the game which is madness.

John Pierce
317 Posted 05/04/2020 at 06:20:37
Ah the lad Starmer, a placeholder until Labour find someone with charisma and the will to win. The need to jerk from one wing of the party to another reeks a football club jumping from one style of manager to the absolute opposite.

I'm sure he's perfectly adequate, damning him at the same time. Personally, deeply concerned at the state of the party at this time.

Alan J Thompson
318 Posted 05/04/2020 at 06:31:52
I'm not particularly religious but believe in an afterlife and dislike organized religion in the form of churches but I've always thought the lesson of the parable of the adulteress was not Christ addressing the crowd but when he told her to go and sin no more, which I don't think was a reference solely to her sex life.
Jeff Spiers
319 Posted 05/04/2020 at 07:22:10
ALL humans are capable of good and evil. NOTHING WILL CHANGE.
Paul Tran
320 Posted 05/04/2020 at 08:24:48
For me, it's a great story of modern Britain that the working class son of a nurse and toolmaker can work his way up the ladder in a career of public service to potentially become Prime Minister. No doubt 'The People' will call him a 'posh remoaner' and dutifully doff their caps to the Etonian & Oxford educated, incompetent lying man of the people in charge right now.

Martin Nicholls
321 Posted 05/04/2020 at 09:17:01
How about "If you furlough some of your staff, you must furlough them all to qualify for the handout"?

Would need to be underpinned in some way as the likes of LFC would no doubt undermine the aims of the scheme by sacking all non-playing staff then employing replacements if and when football ever returns.

Dave Abrahams
322 Posted 05/04/2020 at 09:31:41
David (314), if the bigots leave their vile messages on their voting slips the number on the slip will lead to name and address. Possibly your dad just shrugged and thought, where ignorance is bliss it's a folly to be wise, always the best way to treat racial abuse, I think if it happens, the receiver of the abuse forgives but never, ever, forgets the abuse or the abuser.
Eric Myles
323 Posted 05/04/2020 at 09:58:08
John #316, I'd read that for Ligue 1 the latest tranche of payments were due the beginning of April and the broadcasters, Canal+ and BeIn Sports, were considering not paying.

I doubt that in the English leagues all the monies have been paid up in advance so expect the same withholding of tranches from their broadcasters also.

By not demanding back the money already paid out the broadcasters will hurt their own business if they are not receiving subscriptions or advertising revenue or have to make reimbursements. And they are accountable to their shareholders who would not be happy if the company went bankrupt because they had paid for something they didn't get.

It's going to be a vicious circle with probably only the lawyers making money out of it all.

John Pierce
324 Posted 05/04/2020 at 10:13:11
Eric, the vicious circle bit is right. If the broadcasters do demand the money back, they risk ruining the industry they make money from rather than taking a short term hit. Someone has to step up and shown (financial) forgiveness in a situation when survival is the aim, not making a profit or bumping your share price.

Billy Roberts
325 Posted 05/04/2020 at 10:25:47
Eric, John,

I have just posted something similar on the PFA thread. The silence around what those big companies are going to do is deafening, I'm talking Sky, BT, Amazon, BBC. They all have shareholders (BBC admittedly is different) but what are they willing to give up?

The players are ready to make their contribution of 30%. What contribution is poor old Sky making?

Tony Abrahams
326 Posted 05/04/2020 at 15:11:31
I wasn't offended Dave B, I just thought calling Chris, a misguided fool, wasn't well thought out mate. If you had called me it, I might have agreed with you on the subject of Stammer, because I don't know that much about him really, but I saw him getting interviewed before the last election, when he put Piers Morgan right.

I thought then, that I wished he was in charge instead of Corbyn, a man who only showed stubbornness and fight, when refusing to stand down as leader, and what's wrong with a working class man getting rich?

Life is about not forgetting your roots imo, and anyone can talk then do the opposite, I've been seeing it from politicians all my life, and it's also why I've always considered Liverpool's anthem, a very phoney song, not that it's got anything to do with politics!

Jerome Shields
327 Posted 05/04/2020 at 17:08:34
Actually read Rooneys comments and he comes across with a lot sense.
Patrick McFarlane
333 Posted 08/04/2020 at 13:01:22
Echo are reporting that Watford's sporting director is expecting Premier League to announce the cancellation of 19/20 season - might be wishful thinking on his part with Watford sat in 17th place?
Dave Abrahams
334 Posted 08/04/2020 at 13:09:49
Patrick ( 333), just heard the same through the friend of my grandson who was told, seriously, by an Everton player, not to be surprised if the season doesn't resume.
Rob Halligan
335 Posted 08/04/2020 at 13:39:47
John / Dave unbelievable comment from one of those vile sewer rat red shite supporters from that thread.

If they void the league I will be suing the PL for the £850 I paid to see PL games this season. They will be telling me I've watched 14 friendlies - I want my money back. The fact the Everton Echo is running this nonsense should be noted by Liverpool Football Club. Prentice (straight out the St.End) is loving this. Sad.

Ian Bennett
336 Posted 08/04/2020 at 13:41:50
Billy 325 - Sky aren't charging for skysports, despite paying for the rights. For them I think they've handled it well.

Bt have refused to pause the customer cost. And that will hit them hard when people give notice when their contract expires.

Len Hawkins
337 Posted 08/04/2020 at 14:10:42
Hugh #305,

I was in the fire brigade and one night we were all called to the lecture room as the Brigade Chaplain had come to give us a religious half-hour.

Unfortunately, his opening gambit was "None of us are without sin". Straight away, someone asked "What about a newborn baby?" and that was the end. It turned into him against 20 argumentative fire bobbies as he tried unsuccessfully to waffle his way out of the sinkhole he had excavated for himself. The thing was over and most blokes walked out not wanting to make it a verbal massacre.

Brian Harrison
338 Posted 08/04/2020 at 15:39:21
Seems like most clubs will do anything to get this season finished so they can collect their Sky money. I read the Burnley chairman saying if they cant get any money in before August they will run out of money. Yet Stoke have agreed to pay all their non playing staff through to August, and they havent applied to furlough anyone.

Liverpools U turn had nothing to do with finding their moral compass it was purely based on money. They applied to furlough their non playing staff to reduce costs, and they changed their mind when their own fans rightly criticized the move. Because they probably calculated that unless they U turned their decision they would probably lose more on loss of merchandise sales than they would save by furloughing staff.

Some 18 months back there was a survey carried out on wages of non playing staff at Premier League clubs, at the time there was only 2 clubs paying the living wage to these workers Everton and Chelsea. How come back then fans of clubs not paying the living wage didnt ring radio stations complaining. To me seems like our neighbours have lost their moral compass since FSG took control. Only months back they were found guilty of hacking Man Citys computer which highlighted which young players they were tracking, they gladly admitted blame and paid City £1 million compensation. This was a criminal act yet nobody charged some moral compass.

Tony Abrahams
339 Posted 08/04/2020 at 16:31:12
If the league is postponed,then many stupid sky reds will turn on Evertonians, because that is how crazy some of them are.

I was thinking that the league has got to be played to stop a lot of football clubs going under, but it's the EPL, that must be under the most pressure, if that super-humane fan is anything to go buy Rob!

Surely it will come back on the players if the league is cancelled, because if Sky/BT, refuse to pay the full amount, then I dread to think what might happen to a lot of football clubs with these astronomical wage-bills?

Ray Roche
340 Posted 08/04/2020 at 16:37:17

Stoke City are owned by the people who own Bet365. Look up Denise Coates to see how much she's worth. They can easily afford to pay their staff. 👍

John Keating
341 Posted 08/04/2020 at 18:23:42
I see it looks like the SPFL are going to go with ending their season now, though still to be finalised.
The SPL are delaying the decision but will wait until after the UEFA meeting at the end of the month but already they've been in talks about it.
If they go ahead without the ok from UEFA they won't get European spots.

Probably the thin end of a very big wedge.

Brian Harrison
342 Posted 08/04/2020 at 19:12:35
Ray 340

I know Denise Coates is a very wealthy woman, I think she took out profits of £75 million from her 365 betting company. Her Father is the chairman of Stoke and also her brother like her father are trustees of the Coates foundation. They have also made a payment to their local NHS and charities in their area to the tune of £10 million, which is some contribution.

So being able to well afford to do something and actually doing it can be 2 very different things.

Ray Roche
343 Posted 08/04/2020 at 20:33:12
Yes Brian, lots of money but no morals.
Although giving £10m probably helps their conscience.
Eric Myles
344 Posted 09/04/2020 at 07:25:38
Tony #339, don't you know that CIVID-19 was germinated and spread by an Evertonian to ensure the redshite couldn't win the EPL this season.
Darren Hind
345 Posted 09/04/2020 at 10:13:32
Come on now Ray

We have to applaud ALL contributions.

I'm one of the millions who have contributed to the lifestyle to which Denise is now accustomed.. but I applaud that 10m donation.
Very few would have noticed if they hadnt made it

Danny Baily
346 Posted 09/04/2020 at 10:25:12
John 341, their decision is pretty much being made for them because of the August 1st start for the Scottish Premiership and the lucrative new deal they've signed with Sky.

By that logic the Premier League is two weeks away from coming to the same crunch point. I doubt they'll go down the average points road like in Scotland but a decision will need to be made nonetheless.

Eric Myles
347 Posted 09/04/2020 at 14:46:13
John #341, I said it before, if UEFA don't allow teams from the top leagues in Europe to compete then their competition is compromised and will be a joke.

I hope it happens!!

Ray Roche
348 Posted 09/04/2020 at 15:15:39
Darren, maybe I was a bit grumpy when I posted that, of course, I would welcome the fact that they have made a generous donation of £10m to an NHS Trust, the point that irritated me is that they expect their staff, or so I believe, to be furloughed despite being some of the richest owners, certainly in the Championship. Denise Coates is worth £9.5 billion and is co-owner of Stoke City with her husband. That is the bit that pissed me off, the interest alone would more than cover her staff wages. it is no less a crime than that of the RS doing the same with their staff, and THAT went down well on ToffeeWeb!.
Martin Berry
349 Posted 09/04/2020 at 20:08:05
There is no way they can complete unless its behind close doors and all squad and connections are tested and found free of infection.
There will be lockdown until the end of May and anyone who thinks this virus will be licked before then is in for disappointment.
Fans hopefully will be back in their seats for the new season but as to whether the start is put back is anyone's guess.
Darren Hind
350 Posted 10/04/2020 at 09:23:36
Fair enough Ray

I didnt know the whole story.

Still glad they put SOMETHING back though

Mike Benjamin
351 Posted 10/04/2020 at 09:54:42
There has been a lot of discussion on what will happen to tv revenues if the season is cancelled. IThere is an article in the Daily Express today suggesting that BT/Sky be given as additional season at a reduced fee. Why not allow them to televise more games next season instead? This season can then be cancelled, which is inevitable anyway, although there will be a spike in demand for counselling services from the kopite gob shites!
Eric Myles
352 Posted 10/04/2020 at 10:33:06
Mike #351, because Sky would not be interested in broadcasting more Sheffield vs Burnley, or Norwich vs. Bournemouth games. They want more Super Red Sunday games.
Brian Harrison
353 Posted 10/04/2020 at 10:52:05
Ray 348

I understand that Stoke have told all their non playing staff that they will NOT be furloughed. So unlike some wealthy Premier league clubs they are standing by their non playing staff. Yes Denise Coates and her family are wealthy people, and she didnt have to donate such a large sum to the NHS. I suggest you direct your anger at Branson who actually is suing the NHS for millions and donating nothing and also asking for a hand out for Virgin. The Barclay brothers more rich billionaires have they donated. the list of billionaires doing nothing are the ones to have a go at not someone who without being asked donated 㾶 million to the NHS.

Mike Benjamin
354 Posted 10/04/2020 at 11:05:42
Eric 352. Fri and Sat 8pm kick offs spread over the season. There will be enough big meaningful games to get them interested.
Eric Myles
355 Posted 10/04/2020 at 12:13:23
Mike #354, there will still be only 38 games, no more, and they will already have picked the meaningful Sky 6 games they want to televise. They won't make any extra money from broadcasting Bournemouth vs. Norwich.

No disrespect to any of those clubs by the way, in my student days I was an avid supporter of Hartlepools United (well they were better than Newcastle, Middlesborough, and Sunderland)

I've always admired fans that stay true to local clubs rather than support the "bigger" neighbouring teams. Just recently watched "The Bromley Boys" that's true fans.

Mike Benjamin
356 Posted 10/04/2020 at 13:11:35
Eric, not every Arsenal, the shite, Utd, City, Spurs, Chelsea games are televised during the season so it doesn't have to be Bournemouth v Norwich although if it was a crucial relegation clash then why not. If that doesn't appeal to the tv companies, the present contract runs for 2 more seasons so if necessary the additional games could be spread over 2 seasons.
Ray Roche
357 Posted 10/04/2020 at 13:22:56

Brian, I was under the impression that Stoke HAD furloughed their none playing staff from a piece I'd read, hence my displeasure with them. Coates may have done a decent thing with the donation but if Stoke HAVE furloughed their staff then it rather smacks of double standards, don't you think?

As for Branson, an odious character if ever I saw one. It would be good if the mega rich could offer money that they will never be able to spend to the NHS but that rarely happens in the real world.

Eric Myles
358 Posted 10/04/2020 at 14:37:55
Mike #356, don't you think that Sky would be in a good negotiating position to get the biggest games? Considering that the EPL owe them loadsamoney from this season?
Mike Benjamin
359 Posted 10/04/2020 at 16:31:12
Eric. No more so than BT but as long at it avoids giving money back. I do think there is an acceptable solution to all sides if this season is cancelled.
John Keating
360 Posted 10/04/2020 at 20:50:22
I see that one Scottish Championship club has not yet voted for the SPFL request to vote to end the Scottish season now.

The other divisions have voted to end the season but everything hinges on the one outstanding vote.

James Flynn
361 Posted 15/04/2020 at 01:17:49
Still competition out there needing professional coverage:


John Keating
362 Posted 15/04/2020 at 21:55:37
Although the powers that be have their own agenda on when to finish the season, money taking preference over sense possibly, they may not get their way. Many clubs may not last another month or more and for many administration seems a reality.

The Scots have decided to call it quits now, although the SPL is still to commit. This decision will at least give a few lower league Clubs a better chance of survival.

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