Leon Osman on the Rooney explosion and Ancelotti's arrival

Monday, 23 March, 2020 45comments  |  Jump to last
Leon Osman talks to Chris Sutton at The Sportsman about Wayne Rooney, Carlo Ancelotti and Mikel Arteta.

» Read the full article at The Sportsman

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James Flynn
1 Posted 23/03/2020 at 11:17:14
Read the article.

What's done is done, but every time I read one of these, "The first time I saw Rooney, I couldn't believe. . . " statements from someone.


Michael Kenrick
2 Posted 23/03/2020 at 11:21:29
It's painful isn't it, James. The euphoria of that tremendous first goal to win the game against Arsenal in the dying minutes was being featured on TV recently. Just made me sad for our club and what might have been, all over again.
Brent Stephens
3 Posted 23/03/2020 at 11:41:16
Interesting article. I still sigh at what might have been for us if Rooney had stayed.

Interesting as well on what Osman says Artetea brought to Everton in terms of diet etc.

Dave Abrahams
4 Posted 23/03/2020 at 12:13:35
Michael (2),what was amazing about that day, when Wayne scored against Arsenal, was the reaction coming out of the ground, never seen Evertonians so animated, loads of fans on their mobiles phoning friends and relations, probably to all corners of the world, and telling them about this fabulous kid and his wonderful goal, other fans telling each other and strangers about Rooney, has any other player in the history of Everton created such an impression on his debut for the club.

I just loved the lad, a little scally from Liverpool 11 showing the world such supreme skill and confidence, pity we couldn't keep him, Everton's loss was Manchester United's massive, massive gain.

Tom Bowers
5 Posted 23/03/2020 at 12:51:46
A sad day indeed when he left. The man still has a far superior football brain than most in the top two tiers today.
Just watching him orchestrate things at Derby is a delight.

He was at Goodison probably at the wrong time and under a poor regime although some will argue his attitude may have been at fault too but it seemed like he knew he wasn't going to win much under Moyes and one can't fault his judgement moving to Manure.

Everton have had many young, promising starlets over the last ten years and one wonders if some of them didn't really get the chance to develop.

These days, younger players want stardom immediately and don't have the patience or dedication and just ruin their careers before they get anywhere.

Rooney was special and there is no British player in the game presently who looks like they can emulate him.

Tony Abrahams
6 Posted 23/03/2020 at 13:04:00
At another time in our history, Wayne Rooney, would have never been allowed to leave Everton, but praise to Bill Kenwright because he stopped us becoming another Leeds Utd, I'm sure
Chris Williams
7 Posted 23/03/2020 at 13:28:56

The press was trying to sell him the very next day. All except the Mail On Sunday whose headline was

Now He's Beaten By A 16 Year Old!

They'd been running a campaign to get Seaman dropped by England for weeks

Mean spirited as ever.

James Hughes
8 Posted 23/03/2020 at 13:53:51
Brent, If all the stories are true then what might have been would involve administration, probable relegation and many dark days. Regargless, he wouldn't have stayed as Stretford was determioned to get his fee.
Brian Williams
9 Posted 23/03/2020 at 14:03:33
Tony A, are you being facetious there by any chance? *LOL*
Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 23/03/2020 at 14:25:14
Only to some Brian! Rooney wanted to go anyway, because why stay at plucky little Everton, when deep-down, you think they are the greatest club in the world?

I'm quite lucky, (very lucky I mean) I've seen Everton win at home and abroad, I've seen many great players, but still to this day, Rooney gave me the finest 90 minutes I have ever witnessed live by a footballer, in that nil-nil draw against Bolton, in a game In which he could have scored five.

Moyes in his interview, “but he never scored” Campo, who had played for Real Madrid, sprinted after Rooney at the final whistle, and left the pitch with his arm around him, in a sign of total respect for this young kid.

Funny, I've read the extracts in a book written about young scouse footballers, and the things they both, get up to, and have to put up with, and Rooney that night got rumbled off a young brass. "Give us your autograph" she asked.

"Okay, you was shagged tonight off Wayne Rooney," he wrote. (If this book is true?)

So, in answer to Moyes, he definitely scored in the end!

Kev Gibbs
11 Posted 23/03/2020 at 14:26:16
I have never forgiven him for walking out on us and I never will. I have said this many times before: if we had had a striker of his calibre in the era of Cahill, Arteta, Donovan, Pienaar etc, I am convinced we would have won something. Let's not forget, the man was also a leader and would have compelled the team not to accept mediocrity.

I also believe that Man Utd got him on the cheap. I'm sure Ferguson would have gone a lot higher. The price should have been 㿏 million cash up front – none of this drip feed nonsense. Man Utd got a bargain and they know it.

Brian Williams
12 Posted 23/03/2020 at 14:59:54
Tony. I have to say I can understand him wanting to move and hold no grudge against him. I don't believe one player can carry a team through to cups and titles.

He made a decision, first and foremost about his own life, career, and future. I've no time for those who can't get over it, it says more about them than it does about Rooney in my opinion.

Tony Abrahams
13 Posted 23/03/2020 at 15:05:04
Of course they know, Kev, they also know desperate men do desperate things, and that's not being facetious, Brian, my mate!

No irony whatsoever, but watching Boris Johnson's speech yesterday, he reminded me of Kenwright. He's got his dream, but I'm not sure that's going to be good for everyone else.

The question posed to Boris, was “You told us we are two weeks behind Italy” he nodded, then squirmed when he was told that “Italy shut down two weeks ago”.

Brian Williams
14 Posted 23/03/2020 at 15:07:23
Well we agree about Boris any Tony mate. Now he IS a fucking idiot!
Charles Barrow
15 Posted 23/03/2020 at 15:14:26
I don't blame him for moving and the fans (of all clubs) generally should be more realistic about footballers – the only people that truly love a club are the fans, Full stop.

The real shame about Rooney is the truncated second coming. It all ended a little abruptly and with dissatisfaction for all parties involved – the club, Rooney himself and the fans.

Dave Williams
16 Posted 23/03/2020 at 15:28:47
Tony- that game v Bolton was the best one man performance I have ever seen. He tore Campo to shreds and how he didn't score I will never know. Astonishing performance!!
Dave Abrahams
17 Posted 23/03/2020 at 15:49:55
Dave (16), I second that Dave,as you say” An astonishing performance” for such a young lad absolutely unbelievable.

I remember him at Anfield on a Sunday afternoon just before Christmas, he terrified Liverpool supporters and he wasn't even on the field, running up and the perimeter of field, with the Everton hoardes screaming out “ Rooney's gonna get yeh” and the Red fans giving him loads, Wayne smiling to himself as he jogged up and down, when he got on Henchoz kneed one of his efforts over the bar, never scored, saved himself a fine, if he had scored, his shirt was coming off to reveal on his T-shirt underneath “ KOPiTES ARE GOBSHITES”, pity he never scored though.

Tony Abrahams
18 Posted 23/03/2020 at 15:54:10
It was around X-mas Dave, mad bet time for me, and I actually backed Rooney to get a hat-trick that day for some unknown reason, and although I've seen many players score three in one game, I've never seen a better performance than the one Rooney put in that day.

I remember seeing his mum and dad after the next game, and was honestly tempted to go and tell them to get home to make more babies, because that's how good Wayne Rooney was when he first burst on the scene.

A different argument but I think he would have been a better player for staying at Everton, but I'm sure a lot of Man Utd fans would disagree. It would be interesting to see where he stands, in the list of great players those United fans have seen over the last 25 years, especially if being a scouser doesn't come in to it with them?

Brian Williams
19 Posted 23/03/2020 at 16:08:40
Tony, his relationship with Man Utd fans was a funny one. They hated him for being a Scouser but couldn't help but love what he did for them. Being a Scouser though stopped him being absolutely idolised by them like other players before him.
Tamhas Woods
20 Posted 23/03/2020 at 16:09:22
Sell Rooney or become the next Leeds, and then sell Rooney anyway. Know which side I'm on...
Tony Abrahams
21 Posted 23/03/2020 at 16:31:40
It used to make me smile, that 'Build a Bonfire' song, though, Brian, and such was Rooney's personality, he probably enjoyed it as well.
Ray Said
22 Posted 23/03/2020 at 16:37:37
Rooney had little say whether he stayed or went. The agent who went on to represent him after a long court battle was, allegedly, in deep with very serious organised crime people.

The very brave MP for Walton at the time (and mad Evertonian), Peter Kilfoyle, made a statement to the House of Commons on the subject and named the names of a national crime figure and some well known local ones; he also referenced Dagleish as playing a part.

It was all public record at the time for those who wish to revisit the matter.

Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 23/03/2020 at 16:43:21
Fuckin hell Ray, Kenny Dalglish turned up at the meeting with one of the A Team!
Ray Said
24 Posted 23/03/2020 at 16:59:43
Thats right, Tony,

The Adams Family were involved and later a grenade was found on the wall around Daglish's house. All public record information.

Chris Williams
25 Posted 23/03/2020 at 17:17:57

Didn't the judge pretty well call the odious Stretford a liar, and have a bit of a pop at Dalglish as well? That bloke you're talking about was an enforcer for London gangsters, I recall.

Or was that the bloke who Gerard spoke up for in court that time?


Ray Said
26 Posted 23/03/2020 at 17:26:21
Chris (25), the guy who turned up was THE Number 1 London gangster – not the enforcer.
Chris Williams
27 Posted 23/03/2020 at 17:40:49

It gives you some idea of the money involved. Rooneys previous, or his legitimate agent, was in dispute with Stretford over his contract I think. Bags full of banknotes involved too.

Dalglish earning his commissions

There was a lot of talk about Stretford ending up dead in a ditch at the time. He left his agency to work full time for Rooney and his family, didn't he? A nice little earner for a salesman of electrical appliances, and for a good long time.

John Raftery
28 Posted 23/03/2020 at 19:05:15
I have always agreed with those who assert Rooney would have been an even better player if he had stayed with us, at least for another couple of seasons. He would have had time to develop without the pressure cooker atmosphere of Old Trafford.

I find many Man Utd fans are disinclined to acknowledge just how good he was for them. With us, he would have achieved legendary status. With United, he was just another successful player in a successful team.

Tony Abrahams
29 Posted 23/03/2020 at 19:24:49
I'm not sure it had anything to do with Rooney eaving Everton though, this Adams business?

Trevor Birch, was going to be our saviour, but I believe he took one look at the books and said that, for Everton to survive without having to go into administration, then they would have to sell their asset, and next thing he was out the door.

It wasn't long before Rooney followed, a broken foot conveniently helping Everton keep hold until the transfer window was nearly shut, and probably helped keep Kenwright in-charge of Everton for way too many years too long.

Maybe this isn't the truth, maybe it's nowhere near the truth, but losing Rooney was a terrible blow, even if the team came 4th the very next season. I've never seen a player like him in a blue shirt since, with even half his talent, although I loved little Timmy Cahill's massive heart!

Peter Mills
30 Posted 23/03/2020 at 20:05:33
I always felt David Moyes managed Rooney poorly. He played him very sparingly at first, and was keen to put him down, to keep him in his place.

Moyes was trying to behave like Alex Ferguson did with his young players, but he never had Ferguson's personality. And Rooney just needed to unleashed.

Michael Kenrick
31 Posted 23/03/2020 at 20:18:19
Peter @30,

That was exactly the feeling. One of the things I had against Moyes from that time. He really did hold him back.

But then Moyes later sued him over something in his book... and won, as I recall. No smoke, etc. Things cannot have been very good between them.

John McFarlane Snr
32 Posted 23/03/2020 at 20:36:52
HI Dave [4],

Wayne Rooney first came to my attention via a lad, Phil Parker, who occasionally posts on this site. His words to me where something along the lines of, "John, you should see this kid who plays for the Under-18s and he's only 14".

Some time later, despite living in Skelmersdale, I, along with my son and a friend who is no longer with us, went to watch a youth team game and my first impression was, "This is a boy in a man's body". The same feeling I had when Joe Royle operated in the youth team.

I really thought that we could build a team around him, but sadly that never happened. I thought that he would have encouraged a better class of player to sign for the club. I never felt anger towards him, I just felt that his agent could have advised him to give Everton another season to see how things developed, but I suppose that time means money to agents.

On a more pleasant note my season ticket problem has been resolved, but not without a hiccup or two, another topic to discuss at the long-awaited get-together.

Dave Abrahams
33 Posted 23/03/2020 at 21:46:23
Peter (30), they are exactly my feelings about the way Rooney was seen by Moyes. Here was a kid who belonged on the pitch and in the team, a one-in-a-million player.

There was one game versus Man Utd at Goodison, Everton were losing 3-0 at half time. Wayne came on for the second half and nearly changed the game. We got back to 3-3 before Man Utd got the winner near the very end. After that game, the United players were telling Ferguson, “You've got to sign this lad!”

I think there is a lot of truth in the comment that Everton would have been in serious financial trouble if they hadn't sold Rooney when they did.

There was a story told to me by Bob Pendleton, the scout who brought Wayne to the club, it's not about Rooney but the way Bob was rewarded by Everton after he was sold, but Bob never revealed it to the press so I won't on here.

Dave Abrahams
34 Posted 23/03/2020 at 21:52:33
John (32), I'm glad you got your season ticket sorted out, it will help you relax, Sonny, my grandson sorted mine out this morning, he said he was told that it will be sent out two weeks before the start of next season, whenever that is. I hope for the well-being of everyone in the country it is sometime in August, even though that doesn't look likely now, but you never know.
Brian Williams
35 Posted 23/03/2020 at 21:55:17
I hope it is too Dave, bloody long wait for my Desperado otherwise! 😂
Dave Abrahams
36 Posted 23/03/2020 at 22:04:13
Brian (35), yes it will be a pleasure to see you and I'll even them out for you, I owe you two!! Seriously, I, like you and a few more ToffeeWebbers will be delighted when it happens.
Brent Stephens
37 Posted 23/03/2020 at 22:17:30
Dave, 28th May now the deadline for season ticket renewal! You could have waited longer!
Dave Abrahams
38 Posted 23/03/2020 at 22:33:03
Brent (37), yes just saw that, well at least it's sorted, and thanks once again to you and Eric for your help.

Brian my post at (36), should have read ‘I'll even pour them out for you'.

Brian Williams
39 Posted 23/03/2020 at 22:35:16
Dave #36.

Hear, hear to that, mate. I look forward to when we can all put this behind us and look back and think "Thank fook that's over with."

I hope some things will change in the world, for the better!

Brian Williams
40 Posted 23/03/2020 at 22:53:24
Missed that little omission mate. We'll have a right good pish up and you can remind me of my "I think Silva's the one, he's here for the long haul" assessment. I'm sure I talked other bollocks as well!
Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 23/03/2020 at 22:59:07
Brian, (40), yes look forward to that, as for talking bollocks, there isn't a man alive who doesn't wish he hadn't talked a load of nonsense many times over.
Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 23/03/2020 at 23:39:57
Stop bowling Dave! Just watched an absolute cracker of a film tonight, called Sleepers. If I gave it an 8/10 in my 30s, I'd give it a 9.2 right now!

Tony Abrahams
43 Posted 24/03/2020 at 09:10:36
Best on this thread I suppose, because I've just watched Gary Neville on television, talking about why they are giving up their hotels for NHS workers.

It struck me right away, that this has come all the way from Alex Ferguson, and what he instilled in all the young kids who came through at United.

That's what we need Brands and Ancelotti to do at Everton. Instil hard work and discipline, instil the importance of your team-mates, and instil that will to always want to be better, that's Ferguson's legacy imo, and massive credit to that class of 99, for staying true to their roots, even if what Ryan Giggs did, was a hanging offence imo!

I heard a story, that supposedly came from Wayne Rooney's lips, after he made his second Everton debut and scored the winner against Stoke. With minutes to go an Everton player was fouled (no names!) and jumped up, grabbed the ball, and tried to take a quick free-kick.

"What are you doing?" asked Rooney. The player looked at him like he had two heads, shrugged his shoulders, and said “I'm taking the free-kick”.

“We are winning by a single goal, we are in the last few minutes, don't you think it would be better taking your time, staying down a minute, instead of rushing to take the free-kick?”

That was what Rooney told my mate, when relaying the story of how he couldn't believe International footballers at Everton didn't really know how to win.

Dave Abrahams
44 Posted 24/03/2020 at 15:12:25
Tony (42), yes saw that film and read the book, it was supposed to be a true story, but the author was questioned about the validity of it.

I bet you that Kenwright writes one of those books!!!

Roger Helm
45 Posted 24/03/2020 at 15:39:41
One of the best players we ever produced, unfortunately at a time when we were at our worst both on and off the field. We had to sell him for his sake and ours, but even at the time I thought we got a very poor bargain.

He was just too good for our team. Also, I remember reading that we averaged more points per game when he was not playing, presumably because when he was in the team the other players thought all they had to do was give it to Rooney.

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