Premier League moves resumption target back

Would that be April 2020 or 2021?

UK has now over 2.5K and escalating; would be surprised if we were anything like back to normality at the end of April.

There's people dying and elderly folk locked up in their own homes. Football doesn't matter right now.

I understand there are non-wealthy people working for associations, clubs etc, but that's no different to other companies being effected by this virus.

Clubs, the FA and the Premier League should abandon this season. It's done, and there's more important things to worry about.

I will seriously stop watching and paying for football services if they persist in placing money over the welfare of people. It's thoroughly disgusting, and an event like this has shown the powers that be their true colours for the world to see...

Totally agree with your comments I feel exactly he same.

People who Know the price of everything and the value of nothing

For the Football League and National League clubs most of them are struggling to pay their bills and pay their staff. Indeed one or two have already issued redundancy warning notices to their staff. For them the challenge is not about making money but staying afloat.

End of April, or abandon the season.

Sport should take a backward step and put people's lives first and foremost, but until Liverpool get those two wins, they are hellbent on making damn sure they get the title.

Even if we have to wait to June.

Do not be suprised if they try to restart around May. Once Liverpool have those couple of games in the bag, then that will be fine for the f a, season can be stopped again if needed.

In the meantime we'll being of people will be put at risk, just to ensure they can crown them Champions.

Mind you in the eyes of the bosses are there any other teams that matter apart from our neighbours?

The Athletic is reporting that some £650m will have to be paid back, presumably to broadcasters, should this season be cancelled. that's the true motive for trying to complete this season, nothing to do with fairness or sporting integrity or even to satisfy what us the supporters may want.

The worlds in an unprecedented crisis for the modern times.

I don't see how this will happen and I expect eventually the season will be voided due to COVID 19.

People's health is the most important wealth, and this crisis, once it's over, hopefully ASAP, but likely months, will I'm sure make people realise what's important and how perhaps we take, many things for granted.

Hopefully Everton and Evertonians, are all fairing well, and will continue to so, thought this crisis.

Good health to All TWrs and their families.

DB-B has written to registered members with a club update on things following today's Premier League conference call with all clubs.

It also mentions EiTC initiatives of a ‘Blue Family' scheme to 'provide support and assistance to the most vulnerable, socially isolated and at risk people in our society.'

A statement from the club would be useful. It could not be definitive as the current situation is so unclear, but some statement of understanding/intent about reimbursement for matches lost or a reduced next season would not go amiss.

Tricky, I know, but better than silence.

I'd STRONGLY encourage you to put the idea to the leagues (e.g. put it to the EPL but copy in all the other leagues so the EPL would be shamed if not playing ball).

To give it strength, you might want to consider leading a collective petition on behalf of all TW subscribers. Lyndon and Michael I'm sure would facilitate some sort of TW forum for this. Even involving supporters groups from other clubs.

And then copy it to various arms of the mass media to give it further strength and support.

Draft a proposal to the EPL (c.c. the other leagues) and TW can knock it about. Principles and logistics.

The higher leagues are dependent on the lower leagues; and smaller clubs are important to their wider communities.

Go on, give it a go!

They'll be doing well to get games on behind closed doors in August.

They will make a virtue out of neccessity and take 4 seasons to stagger and then un-stagger around that 2022, (Big money) Qatari World Cup abortion.

And just to cheer everybody up, they may, for Club continuity or something, unilaterally extend every players contract by 12mths and we're stuck with our rubbish for another season.

Back in the real world I have lost my job with next to zero chance of me finding any work anytime soon. While the filthy rich players still get paid obscene amounts of money for playing video games.

The world is insane and run by lunatics,

1) The season, with 28/29 matches, is declared complete. LFC is declared champion and the bottom three clubs get sent down. This will get a lot of lawyers rich because there will be an awful lot of lawsuits by a lot of clubs. There is too much money involved for this to happen.

2) It is decided to cancel the 2019/20 season. It never happened! Maintain the status quo. Start over in the next season. Boy would that piss LFC off. What would the status of the player's stats be? I would hate to be the one to tell DCL his goals aren't going to count in his record.

3) The pandemic subsides, and the league is able to finish the season in the summer. This is the best scenario, but a lot depends on a virus that we don't know all that much about yet. This might or might not be a go. I wonder what the odds are?

4) The virus takes longer than to get rid of than originally thought, so the current season is dovetailed into the next. A 76 match season! Not likely going to happen, but would be interesting if it did.

Whichever way this plays out, there isn't a precedent for it. It's new territory for all concerned.

I simply think/worry this is all going to drag on longer than we hope for, so be prepared just to write off this season totally. Goal stats could be retained, and harsh on the RS (among many tbh) for sure, fortunate for some others but, for fuck's sake, in the scheme of things who, besides "Them", frankly cares? The buzz is already lost for this season. And take next season as it comes.

Off topic now – I know there are a number of lawyers (of different persuasions) on this site so a question I have not found an answer to (asking for a friend!)...

With the threat of government-enforced lockdowns or even virus enforced isolation, what is the position if this person is contractually bound to complete on a home move, having exchanged contracts, but essentially is unable to because they are ill, removal company is told they can't go out, people are in obligatory isolation etc etc?

Any fixtures yet to be completed for 19-20 could carry double points and the points tally from 19-20 added to 20-21.

Next season would still be 38 matches and Everton would have 37 points at the beginning and if the first match happened to be Liverpool at Goodison Park, Everton if they won would move to 43 points or if they drew to 39 points. Not an ideal solution I admit.

Okay, so we finish the Premier League and Sheffield United finish 4th and miss out on Champions League football. Just to give Liverpool the title? This season is royally fucked. Let's not ruin NEXT season as well. And bin VAR while we're at it.

Dead right it's about the money. Some clubs like Bournemouth would be in real peril if they have to pay TV money back. That's where the decision lies: no chance the season will be voided, as much as we would all like it to be.

I suspect they'll play through the summer and reduce the summer break to get the season completed and potentially move out the start of next season but, if the outage persists into June & July, then I'd imagine this season will be scrapped and Bobby Ewing will emerge from the shower in August.

While it's not insurmountable, it is another logistical nightmare for some clubs who may have made arrangements to promote new kit sponsors, sleeve sponsors etc, some clubs may have already started spending the predicted future income?

Sports manufacturers may already be producing these new kits for them to be mothballed. It's not the most pressing problem, admittedly, but it's one I hadn't considered.

An excellent idea, mate. Tell him he could present it to Klippity.

They will not want to part with any of the massive TV money hence they will find a way to complete, by whatever means.

It's about the history of football in the 1880's. I wrote ep 4 and as long as it wasn't cut there should be a mention of Everton in my ep!

Just wrap it up, give the RS a chocolate replica trophy that they can keep, and start again next season (late probably). There's far more for us Joes - the general public - to deal with and worry about.

👍

When he found out his school was staying open while his sister's was closing, he sent a personal Instagram message to the PM along the lines of "F*** off Boris Johnson, why should I go to school when others "! I had to laugh!

For all those who are interested in Golf, I can also recommend " The Greatest Game Ever Played " which is also based on events that actually happened.

It all seems pretty unimportant now in the light of public safety.

Common sense has to prevail.

Thanks Sam will give that a watch, have plenty of time on my hands now!

How about a script about the great Dixie Dean? his story needs to be told and shown to the world. Apart from Evertonians, I don't think his achievements are greatly recognised by wider public. PLEASE make it happen!

You make a very good point about the wider
public's it ignorance of Dixie. I once talked to an Arsenal fan in a bar in Tenerife who'd never even heard of Dixie! Some fan, but then again, the conversation did take place after the rise of Sky and the advent of the Premier League!

Tell Sky and BT to whistle and get the Contract Lawyers in to argue the above

If and only then this has been done and we get the all clear, we finish this season off, cancel the Euro cups and play 2 league games a week, this will get the leagues finished in just over 4 weeks, then the Euro cups etc can commence.

If we can manage to finish the leagues off and again I point out, if and only if it is safe to do so, then we can sort out next season.

One scenario that could happen is we null and void the league, then next season I pray not but a second wave of a virus hits us, stopping next seasons league as well, resulting in two void seasons.

I hate to say it will then hand our neighbours the league, but for me, if it is safe to do so, we need to try and finish this season off, but not at the risk of putting it above the Panademic we have now.

Peoples well being is far more important than worrying about the fa and tv suing clubs for loss off revenue.

This is where everyone needs to stand up and not back down to appease completing a contract over common sense and people's well being.

That's great if things are in the pipeline for a film about Dixie.
If that doesn't get anywhere you're our man Sam!

Martin @70.
That dosen't surprise me! I believe if he played for the RS, Mancs or a London club he'd be pushed by the media & know all over. So at the moment it's up to us to promote him and make him known to the outside world.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-20000-social-distancing-measures-12411836/

I personally believe the government may well have understated things to avoid panick?

Are we, after all this misery and death really going to feel any joy at watching a football match?

It's over as far as I'm concerned.

The whole scenario could well have been a little better right now.
Trump, Trudeau and Johnston just didn't have the guts.

Everyone is paying the penalty.

It would be supremely optimistic to expect any sporting events to take place for at least six months even behind closed doors.

The attention should be focussed on whether it'll be possible for next season to start on time.

In the meanwhile, I'm just concentrating on not being a Coronavirus statistic.

It appears the league did actually start before the Premier league.

Here's the point that your post covers 100%. We advised the apartment reception that we needed to leave 2 days earlier than planned (we had prepaid for 4). The reply was, "No problem, sir. We can give you a certificate noting a credit for you to use within 90 days. If the situation is still not sorted out there will be a likely extension to this date".

So, SIMPLES, as you say, give the RS a certificate!

I reckon the same rule for all of UEFA, and if and when normality returns, start fresh in all competitions.

The FA and EPL, will be crapping themselves about breech of contract but it's force majeure.

Tough for all teams in run ins to win leagues and get promoted.

Tough, desperate times for the lower, non league grass roots football teams at all levels.

Will the government support their league bodies if this pandemic and after effects, run through summer into autumn?

I can't see preseason friendlies anywhere let alone offshore, and in some cases lucrative revenue opportunities for both clubs at the high and low end of football will be lost..

Shutting the ale houses down will also impact life and now it looks like prohibition dirge times.. let's hope there's some common sense and respect from the public.

Seen too many selfish and self centred alpha hotels, taking the piss in summer markets, jumping queues and buying too much.

Time to reflect on life and what's important.

IMO, FA should have the balls to pull the plug now and prepare for next season to start on target. OK, that makes the big assumption that the virus would be under sufficient control by then. There will be disappointments for those at the top of the various divisions and some sighs of relief for those close to the bottom.

One thing that concerns me is nothing to do with just football but the lack of spectator sport in general. I am hoping this doesn't lead to increased violent crime rates.

Difficult days now and forward for a while.

I think that's the best we can hope for at this point, unless the scientists come up with some kind of silver bullet.

As others have said, if man city were top by however many points, the season would have been cancelled by now.

It was great in the local last night. None of the usual gloating from the RS, maybe deep down they know the season is over. I just stood there with a big grin on my face singing Karma's coming home. Of course, I think we all know if the season is cancelled the premier league will announce the RS as champions anyway, but it will be a tainted one, with a dirty big asterisk next to their name.

* 2019 / 2020 champions Liverpool, won by default*.

Might be talking about it on Mark Webster's show on Talksport 2 tomorrow.

On-loan Manchester United striker Odion Ighalo, 30, earns £8,000 per goal and £9,000 for every win on top of his £180,000-a-week wages at Old Trafford. (Sun)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/wilfried-zaha-offers-free-housing-to-hospital-workers-tackling-coronavirus-mq7hkl3mn

Leading Championship clubs are considering a plan to cap player wages at £6,000 a week because of the suspension of the football season.

Check out this story about FC Sion in Switzerland.

Link

Unbreakable Goalscoring Record

No harm to it.

So a visit to TW is great for me and I am even signing up to netflix just to watch Sam Hoare's film about footy.
And Mike hope your wife get's home soon.

“There have been a lot of suggestions thrown around as to how the Premier League table should be decided if the coronavirus crisis means the season cannot be completed.
Call it as it is? Wipe it off entirely?
One thing's for certain, and that is that any proposed solution would be sure to infuriate someone, somewhere. With the whole no-sport thing going on, we've had plenty of time to consider clever ways to conclude the campaign, and here's our favourite one:
LET GREGGs DECIDE.
After all, the company has already earned nationwide affection by sending Piers Morgan into fits of rage with its vegan sausage roll.
They've also earned a reputation for treating their staff properly – and all employees are being paid in full if they are forced into self-isolation.
We think every Premier League club should be near Greggs. In fact, any clubs too far should be punished.”

20. Brighton – The Amex
4880 metres from the nearest Greggs
19. Tottenham – White Hart Lane
1660 metres
18. Man City – Etihad Stadium
1370 metres
17. Aston Villa – Villa Park
1370 metres
16. Norwich – Carrow Road
1090 metres
15. Liverpool – Anfield
1060 metres
14. Southampton – St Mary's Stadium
878 metres
13. Bournemouth – Vitality Stadium
866 metres
12. Leicester City – King Power Stadium
844 metres
11. Burnley – Turf Moor
788 metres
10. West Ham – London Stadium
752 metres
9. Manchester United – Old Trafford
741 metres
8. Watford – Vicarage Road
607 metres
7. Chelsea – Stamford Bridge
545 metres
6. Crystal Palace – Selhurst Park
534 metres
5. Sheffield United – Bramall Lane
514 metres
4. Wolves – Molineux Stadium
440 metres
3. Arsenal – Emirates Stadium
377 metres
2. Everton – Goodison Park
230 metres
1. Newcastle – St James' Park
112 metres

Just trying the gauge posters feedback whether it is in reflection of the current situation, or because it is our neighbours who are 25 points clear.

For me whether the season is completed or not, I want it for the right reasons and the well being of people put first.

I do not think the fa should be forced to complete the season, if and when we get rid of this awful virus should we even be thinking about completing the season.

If that is not possible then we need to null and void it, through common sense and not bow to pressure.

Interesting link about Sion FC.

The league should say wages are capped at £10 000 per week for all, whilst we are in lockdown.

How can they kick up a fuss about that when livelihoods are in extreme jeopardy and ordinary working people are getting laid off. Not to mention the financial stress of the self employed and zero hour contract employees.

At 10k per week they will still be able to put food on the table. It isn't a lot to ask as a temporary measure really, the league should be pro-active about it. It would be well received and for some clubs probably necessary.

The Brighton chairman can moan and will hopefully be lamenting that the RS didn't get the title by default. The season is null and void and the same across Europe.

Technicallly with the COVID19, getting a bigger grip daily, and now daily shortages of food it will be a long, long time before the country is safe to get back to basics.

Tough for the RS., tough for a Celtic and the rest of the leagues across Europe?

For me it's no, and in this moment in history man kind comes first and will decide what's the best course of action.

The government is supporting all industries and I expect the media will also get some compensation for this matter beyond anyone's reasonable control.

Hopefully the Red Echo will start dedicating more space to matters that count than fantasising about how and when the RS will be given “their” title.

There's been plenty of posts relating to the current situation which has helped us all to understand what we're dealing with.

All posts apart from one sensationally ignorant person, have been sympathetic and empathetic to the suffering of those unfortunates that have been directly involved both at home and abroad.

Average working class can't regularly avoid todays ticket prices.

But a full house, two traditional teams, no holding hands with little kids on the way out. No bloody VAR.

Talking of VAR what about the Arsenal v Watford game though!

Reading between the lines (and not being on un-reality pills as one or two are on here), they (the government) are saying we could easily get into the many 10s of thousands (beyond 22,000).

With figures approaching or maybe going beyond our WWII dead, surely even those mercenary profiteers at Sky. BT, the Premier League and FA would think twice about a continuance.

Seems to me that the players and staff's health is being overlooked in this possible scenario and it's more likely they will cancel but say the 'as it stands' table will become the final table.

I thought we had more than our fair share of those.

The good news is there has been no new cases in Wuhan since Thursday and their mortality rate was less than it is in Italy, and considering they have approx one and half billion people in China that is quite unbelievable. Maybe the west should have taken measures much sooner and maybe the mortality rate could have been curtailed. Seems like the west thought that Sars didn't reach us or Mers so carry on as normal. Australia is going into lockdown but still thousands thought it a good idea to flock to Bondi beach.

I would think, going by what the experts are saying, it could be November or December before we get to were China is today. So any football before then seems very unlikely.

Everyone should fight for the right to paid in cash again and remove the bank's hands from out throats. If anything good comes from this crisis, its the awakening of social injustice and the means used to create it.

Even completing in June or July is almost immoral when many players and staff will have relatives died or dying left right and centre. It just doesn't seem right to be pushing it. The only humane solution as I see it is ;

1 Tell the all the premier league players and managers of all clubs they're taking an extended pay cut to mitigate some losses.

2 Give Sky, BT etc their settlement figure

3 Abandon and void this season

It may have been on a different thread but a few days ago I suggested that if our footballing staff took a voluntary pay cut, to help the club through this difficult period, I wouldn't ask for a refund on my season ticket.

Since then some rugby players have done just that but, so far, no sign of any footballers doing the same.

Patrick #136

I wonder how Aston Villa would feel about a final 'as it stands' table as they have a game in hand on those around them? This scenario would result in multiple litigation by clubs relegated or denied promotion and make starting a new season impossible.

As it looks like we are going to be in various forms of isolation, for weeks to come, I can wholly recommend getting Netflix (I am not on any commission btw). I only have the Basic Package, but at £5.99/month it represents decent value for money and also provides a time filling diversion, whilst we are in this mode.

In my opinion, the whole thing should be put to bed right now; if it costs clubs money, then hard cheese. I'm in no mood to watch football right now and won't be for as long as this crisis continues.

This is what I read on the BBC site, and they have reporters in and around Wuhan so I guess they have sources in hospitals there to check out this information.

While I understand your scepticsm regarding anything that the Chinese government publish, but the same slowdown is happening in South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong, and I think we can believe what's being reported from there.

So, what do we do! I'm 71 but I reckon I'm reasonably fit. IMO we should fight through the shit and, when we come through the other side, we say "What the fuck was that?", learn from it and get on with life (for those who are fortunate to not have succumbed to the perils of the virus).

We get down and we get up again as the song goes.

As far as EPL is concerned it is the "What do we get up to?" that bothers me. It appears that those in charge of EPL have zero clue because their minds are closed, no open thinking, no clue on how to move forward. So fixated on the current league positions. No ideas.

Just close it. Now. No winners and no losers. Close it right now and start a new season, if a Covid-19 situation persists. If not permitted at that time, then forward the start date. Simples!

However, (so much uncertainty in what now follows) assuming EPL clubs vote on this PURELY on the basis of self-interest in where they finish in the league for the 2019/20 season (and I know they'd vote with other considerations in mind); and ignoring the complications of the possible relaxing of the UEFA ban on Man City, then...

... who would vote YES in favour of "finishing the season now as it stands"? Here's what is no more than a guess:

1st placed Liverpool - YES, as they'd be champions.

2nd placed Man City - YES, as they must recognise they aren't going to catch the rs and will be banned from Europe next year anyway, so would want the certainty of being 2nd, if only for the “prize money”.

3rd - 6th placed Leicester, Chelsea, Man Utd, Wolves - YES, as they'd probably prefer to take the certainty of their current positions (they each have the chance of finishing in a higher position, though not winning the league; but also the risk of finishing in a lower position, with a place in Europe next season (?) threatened).

15th- 17th placed Brighton, WHU, Watford - YES, as they are relegation-threatened (only 2 points maximum off relegation position).

18th-20th placed B'mouth, Villa, Norwich – NO, as in relegation positions.

So, a minimum, so far, of 9 teams probably voting to finish the season now as it stands, with 3 against.

That leaves 7th-14th placed Sheffield Utd, Spurs, Arsenal, Burnley, CP, Everton, Newcastle, Southampton. A few of them still have a realistic chance of getting onto 6th place. A few of them have a realistic chance of relegation. Let's assume the former is balanced out by the latter: so 4 more YES and 4 more NO.

Leaving 13 YES and 7 NO.

Would a simple majority vote apply? Or something like two thirds majority? With Liverpool's vote counting double of course!

What's the point in say, as late as September that football resumes, of not finishing the previous campaign, and starting another one off? Ridiculous. I know it will give the RS the title then so be it, I'd be pretty pissed off if I was in their shoes. Even if the next season doesn't start until December, so be it, it will have to be worked out, won't it!

No FA Cup replays, a League Cup hiatus, international friendly breaks banned etc etc, the December 2022 World Cup is going to mess the football calendar up anyway, so maybe a couple of December to October seasons will work it out.

But then there are conflicting messages from government, also.

Let's not forget, barely a week ago Boris Johnson announced the UK intended to carry on as normal allowing the populace to build up a 'herd immunity'.

That was binned within three days and with each passing day this week, ever-more draconian measures were introduced.

But even now you still have Bozo saying the UK can turn the tide on this in 12 weeks. Today, his Communities Secretary has said "Nobody is pretending this will be over in 12 weeks".

That takes us up to the END of June.

And the PL and other European Leagues want to complete their fixtures by then???!!!

Footballers, managers, club officials are ALL catching this. No one is immune.

This site updates daily by each country on total and new cases; total and new deaths; total recovered, active cases and of the latter, the number still in serious to critical condition.

Link

A few have sniffed at the death toll, comparing them to normal winter flu fatalities of around or less than 1%.

It is much more than that.

To offer some examples. Many are calculating the % by a basic formula: Total Deaths (TD) divided by Total Cases (TC) x 100 to get the %.

Even with that calculation, %'s are well above normal winter flu fatalaties.

Take China. As of yesterday (21 March) TD 3,255 / TC 81,008 = 4.02%.

For Italy, TD 4,825 / TC 53,578 = 9.00% - more than double that of China.

For the UK, TD 223 / TC 5,018 = 4.64%.

For the US, TD 302 / TC 24,207 = 1.24%.

Now China and Italy have been in more rigorous lockdown than both the UK and the US who are just at the start of the pandemic.

The thing is, all have HUGE numbers of still Active Cases (AC) and high numbers of Serious to Critical Cases (SC) which can go either way: death, or recovery.

If you do a different calculation and divide Total Deaths (TD) by TD+Total Recovered (TR) to get a % of the two possible outcomes from catching Covid-19 - death or recovery - the numbers can get scary.

China is not exaggerated - TD 3,255 / TD+TR 74,995 = 4.3% death rate (DR).

Italy is SCARY! TD 4,825 / TD+TR 10,897 = 44.27% (DR)

UK SCARIER! TD 233 / TD+TR 326 = 71.47% (DR)

US also SCARY! TD 302 / TD+TR 478 = 63.18% (DR)

Now China has 6,013 active cases (AC), 1,927 of those serious or critical (SC). About a third.

Italy a whopping 42,682 AC, 2,857 SC.

The UK 4,692 AC, 20 SC.

The US 23,729 AC, 637 SC.

Of course, of the active cases, they can be at different stages of Covid-19's cycle. Many will fully recover, a good percentage will pass to the serious or critical phase. Some of those will die.

How many potential deaths each nation faces can be roughly calculated depending on which calculation you apply.

The big determining factor of course will be the measures each nation applies and the resources and the workforce in the frontline of all this.

All very sobering.

The idea that sport or any normal activity can be expected to be restored any time soon appears to be exceedingly wishful thinking, IMO.

Bookmakers shares tumbling rapidly,that tells you what you need to know about when sport will resume.

And people just saying "the numbers are not as bad as flu" (well, way too early to judge on that) seems to mask the point: this isn't INSTEAD of flu and its impact on the our hospitals, it's not either / or; it's IN ADDITION TO. That's why our hospitals are struggling. That's why treatments for other serious conditions like cancer are being threatened (my wife's, less serious, hospital appointment has been cancelled).

One more point, the research by Neil Ferguson, Imperial College, which dramatically changed the government's steer on this when published just days ago, is provided in extract, but detailed, form in the Observer today. I've only scanned it so far but I THINK I read in the Discussion section something that impacts on the idea of restarting and completing the season...

...until vaccines are developed (18 months or more away, in any case), then social distancing might need to be switched on and off every few months. On the face of it that might provide a window to finish the season. But when the window will fall can't be predicted. And, more importantly, the window would probably be localised within England e.g. NW England might be in a "switched off " phase of social distancing (so Everton, the rs, etc can play) while London is in a "switched on" phase (so Chelsea etc can't play). I can't imagine trying to get games completed, in an unpredictable window, under that scenario, for the next 18 months or more.

The Chinese figures are now pretty much'actual', in that the new cases have so reduced that they are not likely to move much.

We are told by the experts that the Italian rate is overstated because early on, a lot of cases were missed and assumed to be flu, but either way their figures are horrifying. I think these are the figures which influenced the Imperial College modelling and subsequently caused the screeching brakes as UK policy changed overnight.

From memory, this contained an assumption of 80% of the population, or c50M would be infected if nothing changed, and 260000 could die. Now by my maths, that is not 1%, nearer half that.

I think somewhere in the modelling allowance is made for those cases that are infected but are asymptomatic. These are probably the dangerous ones. Last Monday,these were stated as 50,000, and the previous Friday 10,000! It will be interesting to see what they are tomorrow.

Last week the Guardian published the modelling report, hopefully they will do so again, Monday/Tuesday. I've got last weeks version already so a comparison might be useful, with an extra weeks data included.

Incidentally I don't know how many saw the Sunday Times report stating Cummings was the main supporter of the previous policy and is quoted as saying something along the lines of ‘ so a few more old people die, so what'. I paraphrase. Downing Street deny this very strongly. The Times were very specific. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Keep safe.

Does not surprise me at all, the comments from Cummings. A lot of them are not interested in the man/woman in the street. As long as they keep making a profit, we are disregarded by them. Not interested in the working class.

Cummings is a superforecaster – whatever that is – and seems to lack any empathy or emotional intelligence. Something of the sociopath or psychopath. He probably sees himself as the Mekon.

I should say it has been denied vehemently but, as he's not much liked, I'm sure the truth may out.

If the next 14 days carry on like that we're looking at 4000 deaths at a minimum but probably far in excess of that.

Yesterday, I was in the local Co-op which is a small one with three tills. There was a queue in front of me but nobody was body spacing, except me. Two people actually asked if I was in the queue!

The London underground continues to be packed and no testing kits are available, even for the most vulnerable which includes frontline NHS staff.

The government's reaction has been shambolic and even since Monday's U turn muddled and unclear.

Things must change or we are heading for a huge catastrophe.

We've done next to nothing as a nation, we left our borders open (and they still are), the pubs and clubs have only just closed, and this if rumours are to be believed was because the French President complained we're doing nothing to stop it.

Anyone can still carry this virus wherever they want in the UK, we are a disgrace of nation.

They have just brought the ruling out that anyone 70 or over will not be getting chemotherapy. DNR (do not resuscitate) penned on old people's boards in hospitals. Collateral damage, mate.

Gordon Adie, are you for real? You're saying the Tories have done it on purpose??? Get a grip, FFS. This government may not have done things properly in the past but on this, they have followed medical advice, watched what has happened elsewhere and acted accordingly. I say well done. It's down to the fucking idiots not taking the advice and still congregating. Social distancing, just stay indoors!

My gobshite next door neighbours having a bit of a party yesterday with grandchildren and relatives round for a birthday. The woman works in a care home (unlucky for some elderly people), the husband is a Health and Safety manager (lucky for the lads laying the astro pitch on Monday).

The daftness and selfishness of some people is mind-numbing. Army on the streets within 2 weeks.

Probably best we agree to disagree on that one.

Marouane Fellaini has got Covid-19 in China.

Link

John @162 that is just bollocks. Simply untrue. In a worst-case scenario, each case will be dealt with on merits. No "ruling" has been brought out.

Some on here are revelling in gloom and fear. This is deadly serious but good people are doing good things, brave things and decent things.

Rob @161. "disgrace of a nation"? Disgrace of a comment.

They've dragged their feet at every opportunity and all emergency measures brought in have been later than any other developed nation.

Thanks.

Have you got a Union Jack on your wall and with pictures of Winston and Maggie by your side as write what you write.

22,000 (mostly elderly) people are going to die, this would be a good result and as a rock bottom figure (qouted from the government that runs the nation you're so proud of), there most probably will be many more 10s of thousands on top of that (approaching our WWII dead).

Open your eyes, breath in and smell the fear.

A health spokesman on BBC today said as much.
Andy, are you disputing the fact that they write DNR on elderly people's hospital beds?

It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid that some folk will posit the most absurd conspiracy theories at times such as this.

And with the easy sharing facility of social media any fabrication can spread quicker than the virus itself.

Before you know it the sheer weight of a duplicated post gives it credence.

This is NOT a man-made virus. I've read more than one infectologist say it is impossible to create a virus such as this in a lab.

It is NOT a western capitalist plot to stall the growing influence and power of China.

It is NOT a callous calculated policy by governments to cull the top heavy demographic of the elderly which is such a burden to the treasury purse.

Nature has always thrown up viruses and plagues to decimate local, regional and global populations.

Human practices and policies most certainly can create favourable breeding grounds and conditions to accentuate things.

In that regard, taking the UK as an example, successive governments have cut funding to social welfare and the health service which has left the nation under-staffed and under-resourced for this crisis.

And that they have been allowed to is as much the blame of everyone of the electorate who gave them the mandate to do so as it is Boris Johnson and his cabinet.

I doubt anyone posting on here knows enough about it to make one claim or another so we don't know whether it is lab cultivated or just an evolution of previous bugs. We don't know whether it's a plot gone wrong or whether it's natures way of getting us back for abusing the world we live in.

What we do know is this is serious and will do untold damage both medically and economically with no predictable end in sight.

If we're going to debate it, let's debate it with facts, not speculation, and let's accept this is much bigger than us.

I can't believe how shouty Greg Wallace is stealing a living. His function seems to be to shout out how long the contestants have left, taste the food, and then more or less repeat what the proper chef, John Torode, has to say. And he isn't a chef anyway, so who cares? They're paying him for this! If Masterchef has a site similar to ToffeeWeb, I'll bet Wallace is their equivalent to Gylfi or Tom Davies.

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm not taking it all seriously, I certainly am as I fall squarely in the vulnerable group but it serves no purpose to dwell on that, in my view.

How dare you criticize Greg Wallace? He's the one that looks like a boiled egg with glasses on, isn't he? He used to run a fruit & veg stall so he knows his onions, at least.

And in case you never noticed, oh he loves his puddings.

"Open your eyes breath (sic) in and smell the fear". Have another read at that, Rob, and take a fucking red neck.

Thank God we have you and Gordon who REALLY, know what is going on, who are more wired in and discerning than the rest of us.

By the way, how do you define a 'nation'? Our NHS workers, social services, those taking meals to the elderly. Are they not part of our nation? Yeah, they are a disgrace.

What are you suggesting here then? It sounds like you are saying the Government are conspiring to wipe out a whole generation of elderly people by neglect, a euthanasia programme? I would say that sounds like you are putting a Conspiracy theory as an idea.

Can you clear that post @160 up.
It's just that I have an elderly Mother and I'm a bit worried if the Government have a version of "the final solution".

'Who the fuck is posting conspiracy theories?'

Ehrm... that would he YOU for one. Read your post @ 160.

Get in the friggin Queue!!

But come on!! He can eat and shout nearly at the same time.

I think you went into a different league with some of your ideas but I appreciate your honest replies.

"They have just brought the ruling out that anyone 70 or over will not be getting chemotherapy."

Where does that come from? Give us a link.

I don't know but I would guess a lot if people in Africa cannot wash their hands as easy as we can.

On a serious note though, these are worrying times ahead, let's hope we all pull through and stay safe.

I have no problem with you posting factual information or statistical projections of what may occur with this virus, of which you have done plenty, but can I ask you to tone down stuff like this:

"You have to wonder does this establishment want rid of our elderly?"

Everyone knows the elderly tend to also be infirm and are at greater risk. Most of the deaths are from older people with underlying conditions. Why would you need to make a conspiracy out of an unfortunate fact like this? Can't you see that is unnecessary and unwarranted?

What you posted @182 was very interesting. Sadly you didn't provide a link. A DNR ruling from the government, you say?

Or perhaps more accurately, a direct quote from the Abstract for a 2017 article in the journal Gerontology and Geriatric Medicine:

End of Life Care and Do Not Resuscitate Orders: How Much Does Age Influence Decision Making? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis.
by Cook I, Kirkup AL, Langham LJ, Malik MA, Marlow G, Sammy I.

Go ahead... click the link. And compare it with what you posted.

It's on the Guardian app now.

I don't know how to link it using an iPad, so if Jay or someone could do the technical bit, it might be instructive for people to read.

Keep posting on here as we may all be a bit daft but we do care about all Evertonians and that includes you.

Yes there will be some overlaps but I think your post is inconsistent, as you say "the coronavirus deaths will not (my emphasis) be on top of the normal number of deaths; and then say there would be some overlap between the two. Those two statements can't both be right.

I keep coming back to this point: it is a fact that our hospitals are struggling to cope with the number of patients, more than ever before. Not only in the UK but worldwide. This is not a case of Covid-19 cases replacing flu cases; this is on top of - why else are all the health systems across the world struggling?

I think people have got side-tracked into the argument as to whether the number of Covid-19 cases outstrips the number of flu cases. It doesn't matter. They are real, they are significant and they are adding to the strain on the NHS. Why else are the government preparing additional isolation facilities, within hospitals (deferring routine operations), and beyond hospitals (preparing to requisition hotels).

Of course you are an Evertonian, anger, opinion, you care, you stick to your guns, you have a sense of humour, you are someone I'd rather stand alongside than someone who just doesn't offer anything.

I hope you keep reading, I hope you keep posting, don't let tonight's conversations put you off, we are just being Evertonians and you have a family here.

You might like to look at The Guardian editorial for tomorrow that I mentioned earlier, mate.

Saying we are two weeks behind Italy's exponential explosion and steep rise in the death rate?

Highlighting the government's continued half-arsed approach on this, with Bozo Johnson making misleading public declarations that fly in the face of the counsel he is being given?

Of Dominic Cummings still being given too much sway and say over and above the scientific data Downing Street is receiving?

Not happy reading.

Link

I also note (from the worldmeters.info site I shared earlier today) that the US also recorded its worse fatality rate today.

Yesterday 46 died in the States. Today, 112, with only TWO complete recoveries. Active cases increased by 8,035 in 24 hours to just under 32,000.

If that also continues to grow exponentially as it has in Italy (and now Spain)...best that I put the calculator away now.

LATE EDIT: Opps! I see you managed to add a link to a follow-up post as I was writing this, Chris. It is the same.

That's the one. Not encouraging to say the least.

If anybody is not paying attention, now might be the time to start.

Okay, it's an opinion, but it's not from a Boris, Tory cheerleading, WW2 Blitz spirit rag. I do a fair bit on LinkedIn and you should see the amount of propaganda pieces, repetitive ad nauseam, about what a great job Boris, Rishi, Old Uncle Tom Cobley are doing on behalf of the country. All forwarded on ad nauseam. I've got a sore finger blocking the things.

Fuck me!

Gordon, have you checked this out?

Hello Michael,

I'll concede that based on current stats not all elderly die and the rate is lower than what I expressed, I painted a false picture.

However, everything else I've said is being said by reputable sources: "Too little too late!", is the sentiment. And it's one the French President feels about Boris's war on Coronavirus. London is begininng 'bloom' with this virus and there is still no travel ban in place to stop it spreading?

The whole world has took exigent measures and enforced them, we are still making polite requests and tepid suggestions.

This week gone the government decalred Friday will be your last night out and look what happened, large groups went to the clubs/pubs to have a few beers and a "last one" and also further infect each other in large numbers, how many more people will die because of that night out?

Why didn't they just announce on Friday morning the clubs/pubs will be shut tonight until further notice? Giving no groups chance to gather.

In Germany it is now illegal to meet in more than a group of two.

I'll concede that based on current stats not all elderly die and the rate is lower than what I expressed, I painted a false picture.

However, going back to "Too little too late" we may well suffer more infections than our neighbours and this in turn will kill more elderly.

Even the best case scenario for the UK is terrible, I simply don't trust "our betters" to manage this situation, they're either stupid or something much more sinister.

This is interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/europe/economy-britain-coronavirus.html

And Boris had to have his arm twisted:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-macron/frances-macron-threatened-uk-entry-ban-without-more-stringent-measures-report-idUSKBN218133

He has volunteered to take a 50% pay cut to try to protect the lower earners at the club, and to help the club survive. He has also pledged to stay regardless of which division they are in. I remember he did a great deal of charity work whilst with us.

Great bloke – shame some other players are not made in the same way. May have had limitations on the pitch, but always gave his all.

Naismith has been always generous and intelligent in his charity work. He is an absolute star as far as I'm concerned

This has been going on for 10 years plus.
Michael, hopefully you will post an acceptance of the mistake you made re DNR government ruling?
As you know, I made no such claim.

" In addition I have my posters of Hitler and Mussolini."
Andy, I never called you a facist, quite the opposite when invoking names like Maggie and Churchill, I was implying something completely different.

""Open your eyes breath (sic) in and smell the fear". Have another read at that, Rob, and take a fucking red neck."
I have no idea what your trying to communicate?

"Thank God we have you and Gordon who REALLY, know what is going on, who are more wired in and discerning than the rest of us."

Andy, the article below indicates the governments fears plain and simple and if you read between the lines at what's implied, they're saying this could become much (much) greater than 20,000. How much greater? The FT article goes into excellent detail.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/17/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-20000-social-distancing-measures-12411836/

https://www.ft.com/content/16764a22-69ca-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

I'm not being a smart arse here, all I've done is read a few articles from good sources and come to some reasonable conclusions.

"By the way, how do you define a 'nation'?"
I fully understand where you're coming from when point to the sacrifices being made by NHS workers and social care workers, I have a relative who's a paramedic and he's regularly putting on a bio hazard suit on emergency calls.

Ultimately though, can you isolate one positive and good aspect of a nation and say this is the nation? The nation should be judged on how it acts as a whole. Have a look on youtube how other nations have shut down to stop this virus, New York underground completely empty (people cycling to work instead or walking), London underground packed business as usual, all breathing over each other.

It's our elderly who will suffer the most and it's the young who will cause it by being selfish because they won't be too badly effected by it and it's the government who are standing by and doing so little compared to other nations.

This is why I've used the the word disgrace.

Steve Naismith has got a social conscience and would make a good future ambassador for our club. Or more generally for improving football's image, the future game needs people like him at the top.

I know exactly the claim you made.

You posted @162: "They have just brought the ruling out that anyone 70 or over will not be getting chemotherapy. DNR (do not resuscitate) penned on old people's boards in hospitals."

There is no such ruling. So you lied. Nothing you have posted supports what you claimed about them just bringing out this ruling.

Citing stuff sourced from 3 or 8 years ago kinda fails the test if we are still talking about Covid-19.

Try of bit honesty and integrity in your posts, please.

Elbow warmly accepted and returned.

My point was I posted in reply to a poster suggesting the over 70s are not getting the medical care proportionate to the general population (I was incorrect when I said "ruling", wrong choice of word) a government health spokesman stated the same on that days news although it was in response to the interviewers questions over how could they prioritise in the short term.
I was subsequently replied to with opposite viewpoints.. That's bollocks... Your a conspiracy theorist..
I don't mind that at all.
What I do mind is me being asked to put links up to validate my post it doesn't go up. (It has gone up now)

Stay safe everyone.

Also Michael twists the point slightly.
"Citing stuff sourced from 3 or 8 years ago kinda fails the test if we are still talking about Covid-19"

He knows full well we were debating the issue in the link posted. Talking about the situation with ongoing medical care for over 70s.
The issue has been going on for many years before COVID.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17492944

If I accused anyone of lying and lacking integrity I would make sure I had my facts and figures correct first.
No apologies expected.