Everton's complacency punished as they toss away routine victory

Tuesday, 21 January, 2020 456comments  |  Jump to last
Everton 2 - 2 Newcastle United

The evening should have been all about Moise Kean's first Everton goal but his moment was ruined by a pathetic stoppage-time collapse

Everton collapsed in horrendous fashion in second-half stoppage time and gave up a comfortable 2-0 lead as Florian Lejeune plundered two late goals and a point for Newcastle that had seemed light-years away just seconds earlier.

The Blues were coasting to victory as the match entered time added on thanks to a goal in each half, the opener coming from Moise Kean's first goal in English football, and the second should have been the killer strike coming from Dominic Calvert-Lewin.

They needlessly gave away possession at the back, however, and allowed the Magpies back in when Lejeune over-head kicked a goal back with 93 minutes on the clock and the Frenchman was there again as the home side buckled at the death to grab a seemingly impossible point for Steve Bruce.

Carlo Ancelotti made two changes to the side that started on Saturday, bringing Morgan Schneiderlin and Djibril Sidibé in for Tom Davies and Seamus Coleman while Michael Keane was deemed fit enough for a place on the bench which also featured Anthony Gordon.

A lively but scrappy opening yielded openings in attack for both sides but Bernard and Lucas Digne could only find striped jerseys with some early crossing opportunities from the left flank at one end while Mason Holgate and then Djibril Sidibé had to step to keep the Magpies at bay at the other.

Sidibe forced the first save of the game with a crisp first-time drive from 20 yards out in the 16th minute and Martin Dubravka was forced into a second stop just a minute later when Kean elected to shoot from just outside the box as Everton broke again, the keeper shovelling his low effort wide of goal.

The home side's pressure told with half-an-hour gone, though. Calvert-Lewin got a crucial touch to Mina's raking ball forward that was collected by Bernard and the Brazilian dinked it perfectly over the top for Kean who controlled and then fired under the keeper to score his long-awaited first goal in Everton colours.

A counter shortly afterwards saw Bernard find Calvert-Lewin but the striker scuffed his left-footed attempt well off target and the Brazilian had a shot of his a couple of minutes later that was deflected into Dubravka's arms.

The match entered another sloppy spell in the closing stages of the half and Sean Longstaff sliced one effort off target and Joelinton went as close as Newcastle had managed to that point with a powerful header that dropped over the bar. The lively Almiron then ran at the defence and threatened to slip Joelinton in but Sidibé was there again to block him off.

Everton probably should have been 2-0 up in the first minute after half-time. Kean scampered away and played Bernard in on the overlap and though his cross was deflected out to the edge of the box, Walcott mis-kicked on the edge of the box, no one in the Newcastle defence claimed the looping high ball and Kean hesitated as the ball bounced in front of him and failed to make contact in front of goal.

Five minutes in, another great chance arrived as Kean's backheel found Walcott who slid the ball in for Bernard but his attempt to clip it over the advancing goalkeeper unfortunately cleared the crossbar.

Just three minutes after that it was 2-0 and deservedly so. A well-worked passing move outside the opposition area ended with Digne passing neatly past the last defender to Calvert-Lewin who had time and space to pick his spot, firing past the keeper.

Newcastle needed to respond and increased their share of possession but most of their openings came from Everton giving the ball away in midfield and the next chance fell to the home side. Calvert-Lewin crossed for Kean but, under pressure, the Italian couldn't get enough power on his header to trouble the goalkeeper who made a routine save.

Ancelotti's first change came with 20 minutes gone when Kean was withdrawn after an industrious evening and Coleman was introduced.

Dubravka had to be sharp shortly afterwards to dive to his right and turn Bernard's shot around the post and following the resulting corner, good work by Walcott ended with him standing the ball up invitingly for Mina but the Colombian somehow headed wide.

A minute after that, Sidibe rolled it square to Calvert-Lewin outside the area and he swept a side-footed shot that came off the post, off the keeper and behind. The next corner ended with the ball being fizzed into the near post where Joelinton almost turned it into his own net.

That dead-ball situation eventually saw Holgate try his luck off Schneiderlin's chest-off but the defender fired straight at the goalkeeper.

Fabian Schär came on for Newcastle and had a crack that looked to be a dangerous one for Pickford to deal with but his shot deflected behind off his own player with 11 minutes to go.

Davies came on for Bernard a couple of minutes later and was followed on by Oumar Niasse who replaced Walcott.

Meanwhile, the onus remained on the visitors to try and force an opening and they had a half-chance from a goalkeeper where Pickford had to save Mina's close-range back-header while Davies was hauled down at the other end presenting Digne with a free-kick chance just outside the area.

The Frenchman couldn't keep his shot down, though and it was his complacency and that of Davies that led to Newcastle getting one back in stoppage time. Playing it around at the back they conceded a needless throw-in and Holgate was forced to concede a corner that Pickford couldn't clear. Substitute Lejeune was there to over-head-kick it home.

Davies conceded a free-kick from the restart, the Magpies lumped it forward, the ball was pinged off the post and out to Lejeuene who rapped it goalwards where Pickford stopped it but behind the line.

scorers: Kean (30'), Calvert-Lewin (54'); Lejeune (90+4', 90+5')

Everton: Pickford, Sidibé, Mina, Holgate, Digne, Schneiderlin, Delph, Bernard (83' Davies), Walcott (88' Niasse), Kean (71' Coleman), Calvert-Lewin [Y:68'].
Subs not Used: Lössl, Baines, Keane, Gordon.

Newcastle Utd: Dubravka, Hayden, Fernandez, Lascelles, Clark [Y:62'] (70' Lejeune), Ritchie, Almiron, Sean Longstaff, Matthew Longstaff, Atsu (62' Krafth), Joelinton (78' Schar).
Subs not Used: Shelvey, Darlow, Allan, Gibson.

Referee: Simon Hooper
VAR: Anthony Taylor

Attendance: 38,822


Reader Comments (456)

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Dave Williams
1 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:40:27
Schneiderlin Delph and Walcott- oh dear me!!
John Parr
2 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:43:17
Championship players, at best.
David Pearl
3 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:45:42
Blah blah
Jay Evans
4 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:45:47
Walcott would appear to be undroppable. Here's hoping Delphirino stays on his feet tonight. No stupid tackles.

As for our friend Morgan. Erm.

Full support blues. I fancy Moise to break his duck tonight. Don't ask me why.

Onward Evertonians 💙

Joe McMahon
5 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:48:40
Am I the only one wondering if Carlo is regretting coming to Everton. In this era with the financial constraint because of the millions wasted, it just seems like it impossible to make this club winners.

I have always thought the Kings Dock failure hit Everton more than anything else.

Tony Everan
6 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:50:34
Morgan in for Tom is a concern, perhaps Davies is a bit fatigued after Saturday so he has gone for MS. Hoping he puts a decent shift in.
Jeff Armstrong
7 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:02:22
Ancelotti is so boring and ultra safe with his selections,Gordon did enough Saturday to dispose Walcott, give the lad his full home debut, try something different!
Ciarán McGlone
8 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:04:52
Cant wait to watch Schneiderlin wandering about the pitch like hes out with his wife clothes shopping.. disinterested and pointless.

Our midfielders are much of a muchness in terms of quality, however his half-arsed sauntering around the pitch is treasonous.

Dave Williams
9 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:08:15
CM is terribly slow. Hopefully they will play deep and release the wingers for more of a 4-2-4
Jay Wood

10 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:16:08
That looks like a line up that is managing our limited resources.

Carlo alternates Coleman and Sidibe a lot for a starting position. Tom Davies has been playing with a knock for some weeks and is probably being managed on that basis.

Given the absentees of Siggy and Richie hopefully just short-term and Gomes and Gbamin long-term, there really aren't a lot of alternatives to call on for a starting position.

Hopefully that starting XI, plus whoever comes on from the bench, still have enough to claim three vital points tonight.

John Boon
11 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:16:11
Already some are too quick to be critical of Ancelotti. He is trying to pick the team that he sees as best to win. He does not go on TW to find out who he should pick to play. He has now had time to see the players in training and he is still in the process of deciding who he should play where and when, as well as who he should keep or sell. As regards Schneiderlin, perhaps he may still be able to get more out of him.
As Evertonians the best we can do is to be supportive, cheer the team on and, please be a little more patient. AGREED, that is not an easy challenge but what else can we do?
George Cumiskey
12 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:32:49
If Carlo goes with what he sees in training and not on the pitch we are in for a long hard rest of season.
Tony Twist
13 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:35:05
Why is it that we change the manager but all of them all coming up with the same solution to the team selection problem? Has he learnt nothing from the analfield debacle. Cm too slow. If Davies knackered then Holgate as a CM. If Keane wont last 90 mins then get the game won then Holgate to CD.
Dave Williams
14 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:37:06
John # 11 voice of reason- good points!
Ernie Baywood
15 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:56:58
Give Kean his due... there's a bit of effort here tonight. We weren't going to see what he can do without that.
Ernie Baywood
16 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:02:31
And gets a goal for his efforts. Simple game isn't it? Work hard and things happen for you.
Jim Marray
17 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:04:28
Jay @4 if you could just suggest who else will break their duck tonight. Delph perhaps
John Graham
18 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:13:20
Kean off the mark
Well predicted Jay @4

Just needs to go get his hat trick now

Hugh Jenkins
19 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:19:43
Jay (4) - you called it - Moise to break his duck.
Jay Wood

20 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:27:37
This is a more open game than I expected.

Happy to have Newcastle come on to us, even if it does give us a couple of nervy moments.

In the main, we have been the better and more threatening team and the lead is well deserved.

Absolutely delighted for Kean. And a good goal it was too, from front to back. A good pick out by Mina to Dom. Excellent flick on to Bernard. Good anticipation and movement by Kean to Bernard's lovely dinked pass. Good finish by the young Italian. Nice control, even though the ball fell behind him. Good adjustment to get his shot away and then sufficient power to score.

I like the way we are drilling crisp passes from midfield to our middle forwards and the movement off them.

I can see more goals for us in the second half.

Christy Ring
21 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:29:32
Good call Jay@4 The goal should take the pressure off Kean,and help him play with a lot more confidence, our midfield is too static.
Derek Taylor
22 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:37:17
We have no more than 16 Premier standard players. Just like previous managers, Ancelleti rotates them ad nauseam. Boring isn't the word for it but this is Everton 2020 so get used to it. At least Big Dunc gave us a fortnight's fun. God bless Him !
John Davies
23 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:05:01
Not at the game tonight but we're 2-0 up and Paul Merson says the game's all us and we're playing very well. Why are people whingeing?
Simon Harrison
24 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:12:09
If we do sell JP, to make a positive PT income, then I think we couldn't do much better than look to try and recruit Dubravka. He has been excellent this season for NUFC, shame about his defence in front of him though.
Simon Smith
25 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:35:33
Soul destroying
Jamie Crowley
26 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:36:10
Jamie Crowley: “Best game we've played all year. This is too easy.”

Fate Personified: “Hold my beer.”

John Davies
27 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:36:35
Before people get all over my post #23, Jesus! What happened there? Soul destroying disaster!
John Reynolds
28 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:36:39
2-0 up after 93 minutes with a minute to play and we contrive a 2-2 draw. Impressive. A shame, as it had been very promising up to then.
Bill Gienapp
29 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:38:00
I never, *ever* feel comfortable. Up 2-0, with two minutes left in extra time, against a side we'd completely dominated, who'd barely mustered a shot all game, and I'm STILL a nervous wreck... and we see exactly why. What an absolute farce.
Steve Ferns
30 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:40:46
You'll have to fill me in on how there scored them two goals as they were down the other end and it was too hard to see what happened.

I'm too shocked to be angry. That'll come later. I think the subs were wrong and led to us losing control. We were coasting and Coleman didn't effect things too much but Niasse did. He didn't chase down Delph was trying to do so for him and behind him. Why didn't Gordon come on instead?

I like Tom Davies but he was so poor, it was another unnecessary sub. We don't have a game for ages. Let them run 10 more.

Ancelotti this was on you.

Ciarán McGlone
31 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:41:12
Absolutely criminal.

Another baffling substitution from Carlo.. utterly pointless bringing on a forward at 88 minutes when two nil up.. let alone Niasse who then proceeds to concede possession every time he touches the ball..

Carlo must take the blame here. Poor game management.

Michael Stevenson
32 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:41:14
Everton can just fuck the fuck off. Why do they do this to us every fucking week!
Simon Dalzell
33 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:41:56
John 23. Sorry, that doesn't get you off the hook. We should've been of of sight, and the defence is shite. Facts NOT whinges. How can the last sub. be explained ?
Colwyn Harris
34 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:42:30
Gosh... This couldn't have been scripted! Depressing! Shocked and dismayed 🙁
Derek Thomas
35 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:43:09
Tony Twist
36 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:43:19
And here endeth the lesson Mr Ancelotti. The players at this club will take the easiest way possible in any situation. They are like glass and break even when there is no pressure. We are bottom of the league for playing standards and top of the league for making up new ways of testing the fans loyalty. I hope you have a higher gear Mr Ancelotti as we need better than this.
Simon Smith
37 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:44:17
I hate this team with a passion. Literally can't describe how much. It's an absolute disgrace that.
Ray Jacques
38 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:44:28
Speechless, I hate being an evertonian.
Darren Hind
39 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:44:53
Were are two up with one minute of time added to go. We mark Zonally and suddenly the impossible becomes likely.

I don't want to hear any of this "patience " lark, this is on Ancelotti.
DF fucked this Zonal marking off. Ancelotti re-introduces it.

Thats three goals we have conceded through dead ball situations. . whats it gonna take ?

Christy Ring
40 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:45:07
Sick, playing calamity at the back, absolute disaster.
Jeff Holt
41 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:46:15
Schneiderlin, Delph, Walcott, Davies are championship players...again instead of keeping the ball Davies concedes, (makes a change from just misplacing his passes), and two points gone.
Everton make you sick.
Denis Richardson
42 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:46:53
Still numb after that. Don't think I've ever seen a side concede in the 94th and 95th minute of a game. Just ridiculous.

One thing I can say. Can we please never, ever bring Niasse on the pitch again. Just have him play in the reserves and pick up his wages 'till be buggers off in June. It's a slap in the face for hard working decent people to see this guy running around like a donkey yet getting paid £55k/week.

Will try to erase those two minutes from memory to stay sane.

Very happy for Kean and DCL now into double figures for league goals. I'll eat humble pie there. The kids certainly stepped up.

John Davies
43 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:47:44
Simon #33. No argument with that. Massive, massive clear out needed.
Danny Baily
44 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:47:54
Just been sent a great screenshot of Pickford 'saving' their equaliser from behind the line. You've got to laugh.

Season is over anyway. Just 10 points to go. All just a bit of a laugh now.

Phil Rodgers
45 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:48:26
As bad a performance I've seen from in the Premier League from Newcastle tonight. Deserved absolutely nothing. We have a team of mentally weak loser's.
Oliver Molloy
46 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:48:44
Now that was very poor game management from Ancelotti.
Really happy for Kean scoring, but he looked shell shocked at the final whistle.
Typical fucking Everton once again.
Kieran Kinsella
47 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:49:56
If we won a billion - nil, then some on here would complain. I felt the players got too cocky towards the end. As Walcott was coming off everyone looked like they felt the game was done. Tom and co. started trying to run down the clock with the ball in the corner. The problem was it was our OWN corner and not the opposition's. Pickford made a has of going for the ball in both instances. Newcastle to their credit kept going as they did versus Chelsea on Saturday. unlike Steve Ferns, I don't lay the blame on Carlo I lay it on the players screwing around stupidly to concede the late set pieces. I also think it's a little amusing how Steve had an excuse for every thing that ever happened under Marco but he's been quick to hammer Carlo at every opportunity. Regardless, Carlo, Dunc and even fat Sam all have better records than that joker Marco Silva.
Chris Leyland
48 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:50:29
Everton that. The Substitutions cost us that game, all 3 of them. Cruising until the subs. Why bring Niasse? Why not put Keane on instead and close up shop at the back? Davies contrived to give away a corner for the 1st goal when he should have just booted it out.

we played well and were in total control but that result is on Carlo I'm afraid for his subs.

Chris Kelly
49 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:50:49
Gutted. Absolutely dominated a poor Newcastle team, with no strike power. Let down by poor subs. Lost momentum when Kean went off. Niasse didn't chase down and we allowed them back in. Lack of professionalism, poor concentration and complacency at the back. Davies or Digne should have put their foot through it when they hand the chance. Really disappointing for the fans. Team and manager need to have a look at themselves. May well as close down the under 23 team as they can't get a game. The game is 90 minutes long, not 80.
Graham Coldron
50 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:51:12
When Everton do this to you it's like drowning but you never die.

The other effect is even we do win and I'm watching, say MOTD, and I know we have won there is still a part of me that expects us to lose.

My first thought on bearing it was 2-1 was that it will end up as 2-2.

Peter Warren
51 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:51:40
36# spot on.

Would love to hear from those ToffeeWebbers who know best and criticise loyal fans for daring to say Ancelotti was fortunate with his subs against Brighton.

Ancelotti must take his share of blame tonight. Davies and even more so Niasse just gave ball away. Why take Kean off with around 25 minutes still left?

I don't lay the blame on 2 points lost solely on Ancelotti, Pickford (another who many say he's fine despite v bad statistical evidence otherwise) was just if not more culpable. Flapping at cross as always and then being behind his line for second goal?

That all said the major fault is weak mentality from entire team. Shitting themselves from kick off, no guts from Delph (who was brought in as a leader and has “balls” to criticise a fan on social media) or others in midfield / just lump ball up to nowhere then criminal defending off a free kick from the middle of the pitch.


Jeff Armstrong
52 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:52:38
Cannot believe that, left at 3 mins injury time out of 4 and 2-0 up, how we drew that game is ridiculous, we had them by the throat and Ancelloti let them off the hook with his negative substitutions and safety first football instead of going for the jugular, he did the same against Brighton and got away with it, but he will do it again because of his Italian mindset, but he doesn't know his players yet and how brittle they are, just go for a big win and 3 points Carlo!
Mike Gaynes
53 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:52:40
Tom Davies is a complete moron, and enough is enough. Any other player costing us games with idiotic mistakes this often would be gone already, and I think his Local Boy Tolerance has run out. Ship the kid in the summer and be done with him.

Yes, there were lots of people to blame for this one, but Davies is #1 and nobody else is close. Concede the corner, fail to mark, commit an utterly brainless foul in the middle of the pitch, and then completely miss a header that an 8-year-old could have performed because he was too busy pointing at people.

Nice blonde local kid with an IQ of 65. Enough.

Mads Kamp
54 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:53:15
I'm not a big fan of his (like anyone else in here) but tonight Schneiderlin was MotM.
Joe McMahon
55 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:53:37
Speechless, we were 8th, now below Southampton. I cannot be the only one who thinks Tom Davies isn't the future (or even present). Wrong subs by Carlo tonight though, but should still not ahve conceded 94 and 95 mins.
This is Everton
Stephen Brown
56 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:54:34
This really hurts!! I'm grown man and I feel sick to the point I'm actually upset!

This is what they do to us!!

My son, 5 went to bed thinking we won 2-0 and he was chuffed! I can't tell him !!

Colin Glassar
57 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:55:02
This is on Carlos's head. Why did he take off our three most threatening players for no reason at all? The players didn't appear to be carrying knocks or looked tired so why the fuck did he pull them?

He has history doing this. Remember Istanbul? He took of Crespo when they were cruising and collapsed like tonight. Wake up Carlo ffs!!!

Derek Knox
58 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:55:46
Newcastle were crap all game and we gifted them a life line, two soft goals and a point they never deserved. Like someone said all the good work undone by idiotic, complacent, and amateur defending.

If Carlo needed any reminders of who needs ditching it was there for all to see, and that was with bringing on an extra defender.

I do not like Schneiderlin, but he wasn't bad for most of the game, credit where it's due, and I never thought I would ever say that.

Conor McCourt
59 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:18
Darren forget zonal marking as they were always going to cause us problems with their height though I'm not disagreeing you on the principle.

Tonight Carlo got the tempo right early, got the all important first goal, we then had an easy night and they looked a poor team.

Then Carlo after getting lucky last week starts making subs for subs sake despite absolutely no need. Adopts fucking Italians tactics from the 1990s and so they have 4 centre backs attacking our defence. Honestly he couldn't have played into their hands anymore had he tried. I actually feel for the players tonight.

Kieran Kinsella
60 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:30
Mike Gaynes 53,

Have to disagree with part of your statement "Any other player costing us games with idiotic mistakes this often would be gone already, " I'd say you're spot on if you substituted the word "would" for "should" as we've had a long history of tolerating calamity Jane types well past the point of no return. Even as a kid I remember Neil McDonald given game after game despite an amazing knack to do stupid things.

Pete Hughes
61 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:49
Mike Gaines@53 my sentiments entirely!
Simon Dalzell
62 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:59
Fair play John #43. It was pretty negative responding to your comment, and fairly unnecessary. I am a grumpy old get. Regards fellow blue.
Jay Wood

63 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:57:28

How Everton is that?

We've totally dominated the game. A 4 or 5-0 scoreline would not flatter us. They have had one shot on goal all night. It's 93 minutes with just a minute of injury time to play.

And we contrive to gift them not one, but two goals.


Yes, they had the best of things in the final 10 minutes, but nothing threatening.

The turning point was Davies and Digne trying to be too cute playing it out tight in our left hand corner. Both had chances to simply whack it down the line for the team to regroup and keep them at arm's length.

Instead, their overplaying it resulted in a corner from which they score.

The second is the defence retreating too deep and allowing Newcastle to put it in the mixed and keep the ball alive.

Neither goal has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with zonal marking or poor tactics by the manager, but rather poor in-game management and decision making by the players on the pitch.

Unfortunately, their two goals coming so late will dominate the post-match discussion when over the full course of the game there was a lot to enjoy and feel positive about.

Mike Gaynes
64 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:58:07
Kieran, I haven't heard that name before -- don't go back that far with Everton -- but if he was dumber than Davies, I'm not surprised you remember him so clearly.
Colin Glassar
65 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:58:38
Sidibe was terrible in the 2nd half. He must've given the ball away about 5 times. Seamus is finished as well. He runs slower than my dead granny. Tom, Niasse, Coleman all embarrassed themselves.
Derek Knox
66 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:00:52
Mads @ 54, give praise where it is due mate but let's not go overboard, Man of the Match? Bernard was deserving of that and was head and shoulders; excuse the pun, over all the others.
Derek Taylor
67 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:01:26
I've been saying for weeks that the only way to avoid this lot disappointing you is to expect the very worst from every game, They are a losers squad - overpaid poseurs not worthy of our club and its supporters. Expect tenth and they'll finish eleventh - expect that and it will be twelth. Just remember how we used to mock Moyes 'seventhish' !
Andy Crooks
68 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:01:36
Shit show from the coach. Utterly abject. He cost us the game through utter second rate ineptitude. A stumbling block on the way. I hope he will get it right, I believe he will, but.. tonight he was fucking useless and we are entitled to call it as so. Second rate.
Ciarán McGlone
69 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:01:59
"Neither goal has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with zonal marking or poor tactics by the manager"

Utter nonsense.

Darren Hind
70 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:02:44
Why the fuck is Tom Davies taking the blame again ? Did you guys not just witness the abject stupidity of marking zonally when we have already conceded time and time again by doing this.

I'm not holding Ancelotti 80-90% responsible. He is totally responsible. He fucked up big time. Not only with his substitutions but by re-introducing and persevering with a tactic which has been the death of us for two years.

Colette Black
71 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:03:17
Hopefully Ancelotti has now come to the conclusion that for all his bluster Davies has the finesse of a bull in a China shop. He is a liability and has had enough opportunities to show that he can develop into a premier league footballer.

Jeff Armstrong
72 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:03:56
Sorry Jay #63, At 60 minutes and 2-0 Ancelotti started dicking about with his arm waving from the touchline to keep calm and start passing it across the middle and back to try to stifle the game, he then compounded it by ridiculous substitutions for players who where having decent games,changing formations and intensity, and putting doubt in our players minds and seeds of hope in their play, we then retreated for the final 10 minutes.
Terrible game management by Ancelotti with fragile players.
Kieran Kinsella
73 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:04:07
In fairness to Carlo he's still learning about these losers.
Simon Smith
74 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:04:07
Supporting Everton really needs to come with a health warning.
Just when you think we may have turned a corner they literally revert to type and rip your fucking heart out.
It must be so nice supporting a decent team! I've never known us to be one and we are miles away right now!

Every single one of them overpaid wankers on that pitch should be completely ashamed of themselves!

Drew O'Neall
75 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:04:49
That was the worst visiting team performance I have seen at Goodison Park for years and they left with a point.
Andy Crooks
76 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:05:32
Niasse, God almighty, fucking Niasse. This us the most abject thief ever to wear the shirt.
Derek Taylor
77 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:05:38
Andy, he's already shaping up for the biggest pay-off in football history, A record for Everton...…. at last !
Gary Hughes
78 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:07
I have never known a football club so eager to inflict as much pain, despair & humiliation on it's own fanbase. I fucking hate these c**ts.
Brian Wilkinson
79 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:11
At 2 nil up it was the perfect time to give Gordon a run out, instead we make two awful subs and the game changed, even so though at 2 nil and a minute of stoppage time, put the ball into row z, anywhere but no we have to faff about.
Mike Price
80 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:37
That was a shockingly bad 2 points to lose and could still lead to a nerve jangling end of season. We've a lot of tricky games left and I'm not assuming anything, they always find ways to ruin your life.
Mike Doyle
81 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:39
2 games we should have won comfortably in the last fortnight against weaker opposition.

1] Liverpool's kids - enough said

2] Newcastle - for 93 mins they were the feeblest opposition we have faced this season. But our lot conspire to collapse in the last 2 minutes. Another minute or 2 and we'd probably have conceded a 3rd.

Settle in and expect more of the same in the games to come.

Good luck Carlo.

Roll on summer and a break from this.

Tommy Coleman
82 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:39
What a joke we are. Never seen such a weak minded team. I'm sick of paying these morons their wages.
Mark Rimmer
83 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:07:03
Mina's face at the end when he realised the win bonus had gone priceless.
JP loves conceding these late derby goals! (This being his real derby of course)
Just be thankful it wasn't 5 mins time added on.
Michael Barrett
84 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:08:03
Half a dozen of yous on here tonight we're talking about top 4...when will you ever learn this is fucking Everton remember.
Jay Wood

85 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:08:26
Ciaran @ 69.

"Neither goal has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with zonal marking or poor tactics by the manager".

You exclude the clause in which I justified why I made that claim.

I look forward to you justifying why it's 'utter nonsense' to say so.

Jeff Armstrong
86 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:08:35
The problem with Tom Davies is he thinks he's a better footballer than he actually is, keep it simple and he's half decent, but he can't, he wants to James Madison.
Darren Hind
87 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:10:00
Ciaran 69

Spot on. You have to wonder what these people are actually looking at when you read their comments.

Lets blame the youngster instead

Mike Gaynes
88 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:10:16
"Why the fuck is Tom Davies taking the blame again ?"

Because, Darren #70, when a player gives away a foolish corner for one goal and then commits a totally ridiculous foul in the center circle to give the opponent a last chance for another -- and then completely misses an easy clearing header because he's too busy talking -- that player is a fucking moron.

Not absolving Ancelotti at all here -- the last two subs were foolish -- but the last time a player committed this much idiocy in injury time to cost us a game was... gee, let's see now... Tom fucking Davies.

Enough is enough with this dumb kid. 21 and local just isn't an excuse anymore.

Daniel A Johnson
89 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:10:57
Tom Davies has a brick for a brain. That's 3 times his arrogant and immature play has cost us.

He doesn't learn from his mistakes.

Kieran Kinsella
90 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:11:04
Darren Hinds,

"Why the fuck is Tom Davies taking the blame again ?" probably because he gave away two needless set pieces that cost us the game. Also because since his goal against city about four years ago he hasn't shown himself adept at tackling, dribbling, passing, shooting or anything else really. I don't like abuse being handed out but I am of the opinion at this point that he's just not very good.

As for managers, since about 1988 more often than not I've been hearing how the manager should get the sack. So many have come and gone while the same players make millions and happily keep picking up their paychecks.

Max Murphy
91 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:11:15
Jamie Crowley talked about Everton having "winnable games" on another thread.

Don't make me laugh! Everton don't have winnable games. We're a charity. Throwing away another 2 points against a team we should have put 6 goals past - at home!
We are shite - with or without you CA. End of story.
Christy Ring
92 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:11:20
Niasse was embarrassing, but I don't blame him, why did Carlo
bring him on, we were coasting, as Chris @48 said, why didnt he send on Keane. Pickford totally flapped at the ball for the first goal, livid.
Norman Foley
93 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:12:58
Can't believe some of the comments on this website. It was only a couple of weeks ago everyone is saying “ give him some time to sort things out”. What a blame culture you have all got. We cruised that game for 93 minutes and two unfortunate mistakes, and your tearing into Carlo already. Tonight Arsenal had two shots on goal in the whole game and scored them both, it's not just Everton it happens to other teams as well. Try and get your cup half full ffs.
Colin Glassar
94 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:13:39
Andy, and quite a few on here still rate Niasse for his heart and effort. Jesus wept!!
Jason Lloyd
95 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:13:45
Speechless. Ancelotti is 100% at fault for bringing on 3 players who made the team far worse than at the start.

You could argue that he was arrogant to assume that they could do a job but Coleman, Davies and Niasse are yesterday's players.

Should never play for Everton again.

Jim Bennings
96 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:15:08
Maybe this has already been said but I'm going to say it anyway.

Marco Silva would have been absolutely hammered for those substitutions tonight that evidently were so unbelievably defensive it was unreal.

Ancelotti HAS to take a lot of the blame for that tonight.

I can't believe what I've just witnessed to be honest, I fuckin hate this club I really do.

That's our answer to the Redshite winning virtually every tournament there is.!

We never fail to disappoint so we?

Justin Doone
97 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:16:06
A point is welcome but it feels like a loss in the circumstances. Only we know how to concede goals so quickly.

Stupid, weak, no game management or understanding how to see the game out. Sadly we have done this so many times over the last few seasons it's unbelievable.

Plus point being it means nothing. We aren't knocked out from a cup, we aren't relegated, we havnt just thrown away European football for next season. It's just more disappointment in a poor season.

Really happy for Kean and DCL.
Ancelotti is learning about players but needs to take some responsibility for his subs. Surely he knows Niasse and Schnides don't have a future with us.

Get another 10 points ASAP then play the kids. Roll on next game to learn, improve and implement the game plan over 99 plus mins.

Mike Doyle
98 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:16:36
Carlo has one of the best managerial CVs in world football. Would love to know why he thought it a good idea to bring on Niasse rather than Gordon or any of the other subs (he must have seen him in training surely ??)
Chris Gould
99 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:17:12
Mike Gaynes #53, couldn't agree more! Finally, someone with some clout on this website is prepared to give an honest assessment of him. Davies offers nothing. He jogs about with no urgency, he is painfully slow, and he makes so many mistakes. Get rid.
I can only assume we're still trying to tempt someone to buy or loan Niasse, and so Ancelotti has been asked to put him in the shop window. I don't believe for a second that he actually rates him, and he had the option of allowing Gordon to run them ragged for a few mins. I suppose he assumed the game was won. What harm could it do...?

Ancelotti, you really fucked up with those subs.

On the plus side, there were some very good performances tonight and the majority of the players did not deserve that result. They were let down.

Colin Glassar
100 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:18:07
I've supported both through thick and thin but Tom Davies and Jordan Pickford are really starting to annoy me with their lack of concentration and grey matter.
Daniel A Johnson
101 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:18:16
Well said Mike Gaynes (88).

Tom Davies is a local lad, he's also thick as shit and a bit crap too.

If you want to see out a match send Tom Davies out of the stadium.

Conor McCourt
102 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:18:49
Norman Arsenal have had 10 men away to Chelsea for 70 mins and been the better team in the 2nd half. You watch that game and you don't think we have a right to question the tactics. If Murray scored last week from 2 yards it would have been the same then.

We offered a team whose only threat comes from high balls to camp in our box due to a planned tactical response from Carlo.

Jeff Armstrong
103 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:19:20
Ancelloti's substitutions in the last 2 home games have been diabolical.
Darren Hind
104 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:19:35
Remind me Mike. . If Tom Davies the kid who is always being thrown in at the deep end is as dumb and hopeless as you claim. . who put him on there ?

We're re-creating the same pissed logic we fall back on with every manager. He can fuck up till the cows come home, but the kids are still gonna get it

Derek Knox
105 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:20:28
Daniel A J @ 89, do you mean brick or prick? Mind you both would equally apply in this case, almost unbelievable!
Peter Mills
106 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:20:32
2020 is turning into quite a year for our club. Having produced the worst result in our history, our management and players have now manufactured possibly the most ridiculous.

Something of a shame, as they also turned in some good football tonight.

Danny Broderick
107 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:22:02
I thought we played well tonight - we should be commenting on an Everton victory here.

I've got no problem with the 3 players subbed - none of them have 90 minutes in them (Kean will have but not yet).

The reason we lost is not zonal marking - we defended well for 93 minutes. It's not the players brought on. Pickford flapping at that corner put them back into the game. If he had dealt with that initial corner better, we'd be 2 points better off tonight.

We played well but Pickford has cost us again with that first goal. Whenever he is playing well, I am always still wondering when his next clanger will be. A top keeper deals with that corner and we win.

Mike Doyle
108 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:22:23
I don't follow Newcastle closely, but the commentator kept referring to how tough it must be for Steve Bruce coping with the worst injury crisis since God was a boy (and in fairness it must be if Christian Atsu can get a start).
Makes our Late collapse Seem just that little bit worse.
I wonder if any other Carlo team has conceded twice in the last 2 minutes of time added on? Could be another first for his CV!
Chris Leyland
109 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:23:36
Darren - why can't it be the manager's fault and the fault of some players too? It isn't an either or situation. Ancelotti got his substitutions wrong tonight and had to take a large part of the blame, but one of those substitutes (Davies) played a big part in the result. Nothing to do with him being young or local: tonight it was about him being shite.
Paul Tran
110 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:23:41
First goal down to Pickford missing a routine cross. Nowt to do with marking. Second goal we had 2 defenders off the pitch and the keeper behind the line. What 'zone' were they marking?

Pickford is a great shot-stopper, but on crosses, there's always a mistake in him. That's what cost us tonight.

Brian Denton
111 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:24:15
That's Everton, that.
Colin Glassar
112 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:24:51
More than being pissed off with our three hopeless subs I'm more pissed off with Ancellotti for making them. They were unnecessary and they were wrong. We were coasting and he disrupted our rhythm for no reason at all.

It's been 15 years since Istanbul, Carlo. I thought you'd learnt your lesson.

Andrew Hight
113 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:25:04
Team is devoid of leaders and bottle everything. We know that. Regardless of the substitutions 11 players should not squander a lead like that against very poor opposition. Yeah in hindsight the substitutions looked wrong but you'd still expect the players to simply do their job and see it out. I know where I place the majority of the blame and that's with the current crop of players. Massive job to sort this mess out
Mike Galley
114 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:25:06
Probably like a lot of Blues tonight, I left the ground a couple of minutes into injury time working out how these three points would affect our league position.
You can imagine the surprise I had when I got back to the car.
Now in the railway trying to digest events. Still have not seen the goals so I'll refrain from commenting, but I'm afraid Mike Gaynes is making statements about Tom Davies that I can do nothing but agree with.
I'm not absolving the manager, but I think we all agree that there's a mental weakness in the team/squad that has developed over a number of years. I'm afraid no manager is going to solve that overnight.
Daniel A Johnson
115 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:26:10
How anyone can watch the build up to the first goal and not see how Tom “disaster” Davies isn't culpable must be blind.

But he's young and one of ours so we must overlook the fact that he's a walking disaster waiting to give the ball away and concede possession in dangerous areas of the pitch.

Mike once again is correct he plays with his inflated ego head up his own arse.

Mike Gaynes
116 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:27:01
Darren #104, no argument there, it was a stupid substitution... but not nearly as stupid as that foul. And young as he is, Davies isn't a "kid" anymore when he's made 82 appearances in the Prem. He's supposed to be a professional, has even worn the armband. However, he continues to play as he always has -- with his heart on his sleeve and his head up his ass. And after 82 games it's time to realize that it's never going to get better.

Chris #99, you may be right about the Niasse sub -- I had the same thought for a second.

Paul #110, you're right, Pickford could have done a LOT better on both. But those chances never should have happened, and I'm willing to cut him a little bit more slack because he has bailed out so many of our defensive mistakes this season with those big saves.

Ken Kneale
117 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:27:27
Andy 76 be fair - he has had to fight for that position with some of the other lot of flops, crocks and hopelessly untalented colleagues in this squad

Sadly having been patient, I am coming round to Mike Gaines view on Tom Davies. Would struggle for a game in most other premier teams

Kieran Kinsella
118 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:29:40
Mike Doyle 98,

Not sure on Gordon but I recall people demanding Barkley, Stones, Beningame, davies, Lookman etc play when they were overlooked. None of them proved their supporters right long term.

Paul Birmingham
119 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:30:22
Hard to take a positive but a Moise scored, DCL, scored again some good football in glimpses, but the old habits never die, an£ so it was.

Shocking and bewildering, and as much as I rate and want Tom Davis to succeed, it's the same mistakes repeating in many games this season.
This isn't progress and it's not good enough, and whilst Tom is not solely to blame as bad defending and sluggish midfield has given the barcodes a lifeline, and they smelled blood.

Next x2 up and Watford will be ready to fight to the death and the concern is this squad won't and don't have the stomach for a fight.

Leaderless and clueless on the park, no game management, and another golden opportunity lost to claw back vital points.

Well a point is a point but in some ways perhaps we was luckily there wasn't 6 mins injury time.

Only Everton blow leads so regularly and fail to win when 1-0, down.

Perhaps some of the TW stato bearers, can add clarity to which team has blown 1-0, 2-0, leads the most the last couple of years.

And may be Carlo is curable for taking off our best player, Bernard, and yielding to Steve Bruce's Newcastle to get stuck in to Everton, in the last 10 minutes.

So much for x4 wins, and my only hope is 5gat this squad may step up in the tough away games in London, Arsenal and Chelsea, and at home against our northwest rivals United and the RS.

Hopefully there's a few rays of light still beaming bright for the future but a tough run in to the end of this season, until this team learns game management and cuts out reckless tackle# around our own box.

Drew O'Neall
120 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:30:31
Jeff 103

That's a lack of professionalism by the players on the field not bad management.

Newcastle were as bad as I've seen any visiting side. They were down to third-stringers.

Ancelotti rightly used the opportunity to try and get Niasse in the shop window and to give Davies a run in a more advanced midfield position. Sidibe was hopeless so it made sense to move him where he could do less damage.

At the point in the match those subs were made Newcastle had not had a kick.

The players on the field should have been able to manage the game out.

Tony Twist
121 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:32:46
Hmmm, Ancelotti learning more about his players, really!? He must be very slow if that is the case! One of the problems of getting a manager who has won it all is complacency and over the last two home matches we have seen that. DF should be influencing, is it a case of too many in the coaching side of things wearing rose tinted glasses. I don't see improvements in the vital things like game management, ball retention and the ability to defend. There are twenty four hours in a day, plenty of time to cement this with the team.
Gary Willock
122 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:11
Frustrating beyond words. but, some positive notes:

1) For 75 mins we looked like a really good team, and given the amount of time Carlo has actually had to coach them, and some of the shit choices he's got to work with, it's positive signs at least. The system works.

2) We now get some decent gaps between games so he can coach them more about how he wants them to play, get some more players back, and hopefully recharge the squad a bit.

The bench today was pretty shit full stop. There was no pace or skill to bring on to replace the ones that had tired. and if he'd left them on and we had STILL conceded 2 (unless you live in parallel universe you don't know that we wouldn't have) we'd all be shouting about that too.

With Richie back, we'll have Moise Kean to bring on for tired legs, and be able to keep some pace and threat. We desperately need competition for Walcott on the right, and some alternative cover for Bernard on the left.

Get 1-2 decent players in, and the walking wounded back. and Carlo will have much more quality from the bench, and less square pegs Davis at left wing? Nope.

Brian Wilkinson
123 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:23
Mike@96, best way to offload Niasse is to not play the guy, it is giving the player false hope and as long as he is being selected, why would he want to move.

Not only that, any other club watching with interest will soon backtrack if they see him play.

Jamie Crowley
124 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:54
I don't blame Carlo entirely.

I do blame, and this pains me, Tom Davies. I like the kid, always have. But what he did this evening is just inexcusable.

He has to show more intelligence, or he does need shipping out. He can not continue giving away the ball in dangerous positions, or gifting the opposition with opportunities in our own third by committing fouls.

It's simple. If you do that, you're a detriment to the team.

He cost us a very valuable 2 points.

It's just heart-wrenching because we played very well for 90 minutes. We were moving the ball wonderfully, we were on the front foot, Kean got a goal, everything you could ask for. All of it undone, and the undoing is down to really one player in Tom Davies.

He's still young. But he has to start to show massive progress in his decision making ability, or I do believe we should sell him off and make some money on the boy. I don't want that, but the time for excusing mistakes is now up. He needs to respond, and respond with flawless decision making here on in.

Christy Ring
125 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:58
I don't understand why Kean and Bernard were subbed, they were running Newcastle ragged, and it changed our shape, but when Niasse came on for Walcott, we had no formation whatsoever, and defend Carlo all you like, but his changes were to blame.
Mike Gaynes
126 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:34:28
Paul #119, maybe that's why I'm so pissed off. I was over-the-moon happy to see Kean finally bust his cherry, and the DCL goal was sweet, and I was just sitting there smiling, and then...


Brian Wilkinson
127 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:04
We messed up with the first sub, bringing Coleman on for Kean, we had them on the backfoot and allowed them back in, surely bringing Gordon on for Kean should have been the first sub made.
Mike Gaynes
128 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:30
Jamie #124, I know that's a tough one for you as one of his biggest boosters. Respects, mate.
Tony Hill
129 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:35
The primary blame lies with Ancelotti who surrendered our momentum, as he did against Brighton when he got lucky. This time he didn't.

I was screaming in the Park End like a 5 year old with a tantrum at the end of that, but when we step back there was an enormous amount of encouragement to be had. We played some really lovely stuff in patches, Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were great and Schneiderlin was excellent.

Infuriating but very encouraging actually.

Tony Abrahams
130 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:37
Ancellotti's substitutions have cost us the game, but he will have definitely witnessed how very fragile and unprofessional this squad is, to concede those two poor goals.

I'm not saying you haven't got a point on Zonal marking Darren, but that wasn't the issue tonight, because Pickford, gave a very weak punch for the first goal, and Davies completely got under that diagonal ball, for the second.

We lost because we relaxed, and we are simply not good enough to relax, which was proven the way we panicked when the Geordies scored their first goal, with so little time left on the clock.

A point that feels like a loss, and like Jamie Crowley, I also felt it was the best game we had played until Carlo Ancellotti went all Italian, and took off our forwards.

If Niasse is getting rewarded by being given game time for turning down a move to the championship, I shudder, but some good performances have been ruined, by some bad calls off our manager, and if he wants us to kill time and become better at game management, then he's got to go and bring in players with that type of character that is so sadly lacking at our club.

Jerome Shields
131 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:46
Just seen the last two Newcastle goals. Where was Colman? and what was Pickford at?They both where not concentrating on what they where doing. Ancelotti. now knows that certain players are a lablity seeing out the game. So disappointed after listening to the match on the car radio. Knew they where folding at the death. Typical Everton on the third game, after two results.
John Keating
132 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:53
Walcott and Kean were done long before they were subbed
I can't recall anyone around me having any problems with the subs
What pissed me off more than anything was watching that twat Pickford, yet again, flapping at a cross.
A decent connection and pushed out then it's game over.
Jim Bennings
133 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:37:34
The only shop window I would use is one to throw Niasse head first through, the lad is a complete embarrassment of a footballer it's not even funny anymore.

We had 7 defensive players on the pitch in that last 60 seconds plus that hyperactive retard in goal yet we somehow contrive to throw away two goals in 40 seconds.

I've said it so many times, we have a group of seriously stupid, and I mean mentally stupid players at this club.

Our in-game management is virtually nonexistent for a Premier League club.

Joe McMahon
134 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:38:01
Mike @116 Isn't keeping shots out a keepers job. I'm sick of him, 2 Anfield performances and Newcastle last year.
Alan Burnham
135 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:38:56
What utter nonsense to continue to talk about Davies as a young player. What you see now is the end product. Wouldn't get in Liverpool's 'reserve' team and will not miraculously mature away his amazing capacity to give the ball away. Would be the worst player in the squad except for the amazing fact that Niasse is still drawing a wage.
Mike Doyle
136 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:03
Chris Gould 99] spookily enough I was thinking the same about the Niasse substitution. Carlo hasn't won that mountain of trophies by entertaining the likes of Oumar - who reminds me of that George Weah's cousin scam at Southampton every time I see him take the field (I hesitate to use the word play as he is beyond hopeless).

I know Carlo is being paid a kings ransom but Tonight I can't help but suspect a small part of him is thinking “why did I agree to this?”

Ciarán McGlone
137 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:06
Jay.. plenty of other posts doing that, but as you insist..

The managers tactics (whether considered poor or not) employ passing out of defence.. this, by your own admission got us into trouble.. ergo, you're contradicting yourself by excluding his tactics as being culpable.

I don't need to go much further than that. but what was also fairly obvious was the implications of bringing on Niasse and the consequences his actions had before each goal.

Geoff Williams
138 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:11
Can't believe the result. We were cruising against possibly the poorest team I've seen for years. The substitutions Ancelloti made were stupid and he conceded control of the game. We have the usual 'it's all Tom Davies's fault brigade' out in force but in reality it was a collective collapse. Everyone on the field must take responsibility along with the manager. I have no faith in him!
Jamie Crowley
139 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:57
We lost because we relaxed, and we are simply not good enough to relax

Exactly Tony. The subs were what they were. Carlo is going to see games out, I've said that now multiple times. We had enough quality, even with Niasse out there, to see that game out.

We lost our concentration. That's a mortal sin in any sport.

We choked. Unacceptable. At this level of football, concentration can't dip at any point over the course of the game.

They thought they had it in the bag. Hopefully the humility lesson will ensure it doesn't happen again.

James Byrne
140 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:40:10
Ancelotti showing the rest of the Prem a masterclass in fucking stupidity at this level of football. The Prem is not Serie A or LaLiga.

To bring on utter useless, tactical shite in Davies and Niasse was unbelievable to run the clock down.

Let's not insult the majority of teams in the Championship. This month needs to see a clear out of the League 1 category players who have milked this club too long.

Gerry Ring
141 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:40:18
Three things that contributed to the loss of 2 points tonight. Pickford's inability to deal with straight forward crosses, which is a huge weakness in his game. Davies lack of pace was really evident when he pushed the ball ahead of him, late in the game, but wasn't quick enough to get to it and finally, the introduction of Niasse, purely to put him in the shop window, has spectacularly backfired. Other than that we played well!
Jim Bennings
142 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:40:28
It just proves once again what all the pundits and fans have said about this group.

Serial bottle jobs the lot of them.

Soren Moyer
143 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:41:28
Laughing stock!!! Tom Davis gives the ball straight to the opposition for the 1st goal. And why Pickford was inside the goal for their second!??
Colin Glassar
144 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:41:34
John, not defending Pickford but there were 10 Everton players in and around the box and none of them could clear their lines. We collapsed like a house of cards.
David Connor
145 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:41:52
Said it before the squad a both physically and mentally weak.Tonight yet again proves my point.Sooner we get to 40/42 points the better. That's if we get them.

Then drop everyone of the useless fuckers and play the youngest team possible. If that doesn't sink in then they are truly a lost cause.
Kase Chow
146 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:05
Absolutely pathetic. Completely pathetic. No mental strength whatsoever


At least Ancelotti can see the size of the task and the absolute bunch of morons he has to manage

Steve Ferns
147 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:08
So on one thread I am blind to every one of our manager's failings, and on this thread I'm quick to hammer Ancelotti?

I could understand the Coleman one, and we didn't lose total control and kept getting chances. Kean had been operating on the touchline for some reason and Walcott was playing in a 10 position, for about 5 minutes before Kean went off. Coleman was added to sure up the back line. Don't like that, but we have an Italian manager and I could understand and accept it.

The next one, Tom Davies for Bernard, I could understand that Bernard might have been tiring but he seemed ok to me, and we don't have another game now until 1st February, so not empty the tank? I could understand the desire to add a body in the middle and go 532.

The Niasse sub made no sense. Initially I thought it was Calvert-Lewin coming off. He looked tired, he was getting in scraps and perhaps could be taken off. Instead it was Walcott. So why not take Walcott off and bring on Gordon to run about off the striker (his position, not Niasse's) and use his technique and composure to keep the ball and run down the clock?

Niasse really pissed me off, I watch Delph run around him to chase down defenders that Niasse was brought on to chase after. Niasse didn't bother chasing any defenders, he gave the ball away very cheaply, as did Davies who was too cold to get up to speed in the middle, I mean he had hardly got his top on by the time he was running onto the pitch, so was he ready? Was he focused? Did he know what he had to do? He looked lost and off the pace.

I see zonal marking is blamed, so I'll have to watch it back to see the goals, as I was too far away to understand exactly what happened, there was just oo many bodies in the box.

I still cannot believe that game. I'm still fuming. And yeah, the weak willed players cost us the game but those subs, we went from in control and coasting to hanging on to lucky the ref blew before they won it.

Mike Gaynes
148 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:20
I think the next time he subs will tell us something about Ancelotti, particularly on that first one.

Twice now he has substituted Coleman for a forward, moving Sidibe up from RB to RM and then the midfielder up top (last time Rich, today Theo). Both times it made perfect sense, but both times it failed.

Sidibe, who on both occasions was having a fine game at RB (he was splendid for the first 60 minutes today), promptly went off the boil when he was moved up, and Seamus wasn't at his best off the bench.

If Carlo is as smart as I think, he won't do this again. If Darren is right, he will. Let's see.

Peter Laing
149 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:29
Tom Davies has the brains of a rocking horse. He was at fault for putting Digne under with a casual pass that resulted in a corner when all he had to do was punt it up the pitch to safety. Secondly, he gives a needless free kick away in the centre circle that allows Newcastle the opportunity to pump the ball into the box. Davies was also at fault away to Leicester when we were 1-0 up.

He's not progressing, Holgate and DCL have kicked on - he's stagnated. Yes, Ancelotti has to take the blame for his curious substitutions - no manager is going to get a tune out of the fading Coleman and diabolical Niasse. Pity as the joined up football in the second half was the best I've seen all season.

Liam Reilly
150 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:57
We really are the gift that just keeps on giving. Laughing Stock.
Jay Tee
151 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:43:46
Wish I had left early as I would have had visual memories of being 2-0 up and a reasonable game. Now I will have nightmares about how they let them get 2 goals in inside a minute. Rubbish.
Darren Hind
152 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:44:03
Because the manager has total control. Total responsibility. Its just plain stupid to single out the kid.
He may have a load of games under his belt but that is because a steady stream of liberty taking managers have played him here there and everywhere. That doesnt mean he isn't still a kid... He's 21 FFS.
Ancelotti is old enough to have been in our class. The game was won until he tried to be clever, What sort of logic suggest taking off a player in raging bull form and replacing him with a goat like Niasse was a good idea ?

Those claiming the goals had nothing to do with zonal marking need to ask why the defence is riddled with uncertainty ? why has this suicidal dumbfuckery been re-introduced ? Why did so many fear the worst when that corner was awarded ?

People can bury their heads as much as they want, but no amount of apologising gets Ancelotti off the hook tonight

Danny Broderick
153 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:44:12
I don't see why the subs were ‘diabolical' as some are saying.

Coleman coming on made sense to me. Kean was knackered after putting in a hell of a shift. We were 2-0 up, having Coleman with Sidibe in front of him made us more solid defensively.

Tom Davies came on in the 83rd minute for a tiring Bernard. Bernard never lasts 90 minutes. Davies wasn't at his best but he is normally capable of getting on the ball and passing it, and getting some tackles in when we don't have it. He's certainly capable of this in a 10 minute cameo when we are 2-0 up.

Omar Niasse came on for Theo Walcott in the 88th minute. We were still 2-0 up and this was just a like for like sub, wasting some time to see the game out.

As far as 93 minutes, I'm sure we were all relatively happy at a good performance where we were deservedly ahead.

Don't let the last minute cloud your judgement. Pickford has fucked up on that corner and put us under pressure and we have buckled. That is it. We never looked like conceding prior to that. It is nothing to do with the manager being at fault for substitutions, Tom Davies being at fault for giving away a corner or a free kick on the halfway line.

If that corner is handled properly, none of us would be talking about the last minute or the manager's substitutions.

Dave Abrahams
154 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:44:57
Every point is vital and Ancelotti threw two vital points away and in the process upset the team with his ridiculous substitutions, and a turned a bouncing, rocking crowd of very happy supporters into a seething mass of frustration. The subs. just didn't make sense at all, Davies just isn't learning from his past mistakes, carries on in the same fashion and makes them again and again, Niasse went from being a comic performance to a tragic replacement, neither of these two changes were necessary but they certainly altered the game to Newcastle's advantage.

I think most of us will benefit and be glad for nearly two weeks without this calamity of a football club.

Jay Wood

155 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:46:22
I'll swim against the tide of emotion based solely on the manic final two minutes of the game in which Newcastle barely threatened as an attacking force and speak of the positives.

Pickford was barely called on to make a save all game.

Sidibe, while crisp and inventive in his passing in the opposition half, continues to display serious liabilities when playing full-back. He is often caught way out of position when possession is turned over. Too many times, cute short round-the-corner balls by him are easily picked off exposing us as the opposition runs away from him.

Mina and Holgate were both extremely solid. They both stepped forward with the ball at times, playing crisp and clever passes through midfield or even further forward as per Mina's involvement for our first goal.

Digne again a bit of a mixed bag, but better than Sidibe on the opposite flank, once again reviving his partnership with Bernard to good effect. For a number of games now he has got in behind the defence and pulled a number of decent balls back. Unfortunately, on each occasion, the forwards have run in on goal. An alert midfielder running from deep in anticipation of this could serve us well.

Bernard was clearly our creative spark having been such a damp squib v WHU. Not everything he tries comes off. He overcooks the ball at times, but he opens up lines of attack other players can't or won't attempt.

Delph and Schneiderlin were good in what they did tonight! They were switching position well, with one staying 'at home' whilst the other ventured forward depending on the game situation. They kept the ball moving with a nice range of passing and switching of direction.

Walcott also had a good game. Possibly his best of the season. Full of energy and running and no little skill.

Kean most definitely had his best game in an Everton shirt. An excellent goal. Good strength and running with the ball. Some nice interplay with DCL. Lots more to come from the boy.

Dom, another outstanding game. He leads the line so well. Another good finish and, as he and Holgate always do, he never backs down. Really funny moment when following the coming together with Lascelles who tried to get in his face, Dom took the piss pretending the defender had a bad case of halitosis.

The passing from front to back was much slicker, inventive and varied, with many a fine ball played through the heart of midfield to attack, not solely down the flanks as has been the case for most of the season.

As for the subs, Kean has been subbed in or out in every game he has played for Everton. Walcott assumed his role alongside Dom and both continued to create havoc in the Newcastle defence.

That was on 71 minutes. Bernard - another player who never plays the full 90 minutes - was subbed out on 83 minutes for Davies. Yes, Newcastle were getting more into our half, but not in or around our penalty area. Things were still comfortable.

Niasse only came on for Walcott on 88 minutes - yet another player who commonly never plays the full 90 minuts - with Everton still comfortably in control of the game and result.

Did it smack of one of those sub a player out to allow him the applause his performance merited, or maybe a Goodison farewell appearance for Niasse? Who knows.

But to believe either of those latter two subs dramatically changed the dynamic of the game as some are claiming is overstating it, IMO.

As I wrote earlier, but for Davies and Digne playing silly buggers deep and tight in our own corner rather than launching it down the line, the corner their first goal comes from doesn't happen and the game is comfortably played out to the final whistle.

The loss of two points and a leap up the table to 8th in the final minute of the game resulted primarily from poor decision making in-game by the players on the pitch, NOT zonal marking or the manager's tactics and substitutions.

And for me personally, there were far more positives to take from both the collective and individual performances of the players tonight than negatives that many are claiming.

Conor Skelly
156 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:46:57
You have to laugh. Closing out the breakthrough performance of the season with ease. You bring on Niasse and yep you got it right in one. And there he is refusing to go out on loan.

Ancelotti has to take his share of the blame but he's clearly trying to get Niasse in the shop window. He won't try that again and hopefully, we never see him in an Everton shirt again, especially given the fact he's sitting on his contact and not going out on loan. It's his right but he's still a dickhead.

The other subs didn't help either. Coleman didn't know where he was playing and Tom was shite as usual because Tom Davies is not very good. Thought Schnedelin was excellent all game for a change and looked like he did in his first few months.

The game was worth playing, though. Ok, we 'Everton' it up but the game was almost worth losing if it meant Kean got off the mark.
I reckon there are plenty more goals to come from him and he should start every game, from now until end of the season. When he finds a rhythm his value will rocket.
Before tonight he was looking like another potentially failed signing. After tonight I think we've got ourselves an absolute bargain. Kean will be worth triple what we paid for him by end of the season.

Jamie Crowley
157 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:47:02
I do NOT want this to happen, but -

If the Club decided Gordon was good enough, and they sold Davies and Pickford for an absolute stud of a midfielder and an average, solid keeper?

Would we be a better team?

The problem with egregious mental errors, is you end up asking rhetorical questions like that. Egrefious mental errors force you into that mode of thinking.

Players who continually have their head firmly planted up their ass need to forcefully and quickly pull said heads out of said asses.

I think Tom Davies can do that, in the end. I'm not entirely sure about Jordan. He's an amazing shot stopper - spectacular. But he is a nutter. And at times like this, you can't ignore that characteristic.

Mike Doyle
158 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:47:26
Geoff 138] agree. Once Newcastle scored - and it does happen - there should have been a collective resolve to see out the final 60-90 seconds.
What we got was the horribly familiar mental collapse. Which seems to affect the whole squad.
We should be relieved that Newcastle's equaliser came with The last kick of the game. Another minute or 2 and I'm confident we would have conceded again.
Jim Bennings
159 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:49:05
Why was Kean “knackered” though?

The lad is 19 for fucks sake can't he run around for 90 minutes?

Do Liverpool players ever look knackered the amount of games they play?

Gordon for Bernard would have kept Newcastle pushed back because Gordon has energy, whereas Davies would struggle to outrun a tortoise.

Coleman and Sidibe should not have both been on the pitch at the same time.

As I say, if Marco had made those subs he would rightfully getting ripped to pieces on here now so Carlo for me has proven he's not as tactically astute as we thought.

The same thing was close to happening at home to Brighton last week, too many defensive players on and they almost nick a late equaliser through Murray.

Mike Oates
160 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:49:14
Good75 min performance with Delph, Schneiderlin Bernard, and Kean running the show. Kean was knackered after his continual running, then the subs started and game turned.
Once again our own Davies contrived to lose is the game. He messed about in the corner area giving Digne no chance to clear, corner, goal.
The Davies gives a foul away, misses an easy clearance header and equaliser. The lad isn't good enough at all, too slow, can't control the ball, can't make a 5 yd pass and every game loses the ball at least twice in critical areas. Get rid !
Jerome Shields
161 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:36
Just realised Colman was not brought on as a sub. Should have been, would have prevented Newcastle first goal.
Mike Connolly
162 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:41
Fuck sake Drew you mentioned Davies and run in the same sentence. He is slow especially as everyone points out he is young. I'm serious he would not get in any PL team. Could we put him holding Mid No, cant tackle. Attacking Mid. No he cant pass, shoot or control the ball. Wide mid. No, not fast enough, cant beat an opponent but is good at diving to the floor when loosing the ball. But hey, he is only young and local. That should be enough. Out of the youngsters he's the one going backwards. And while I'm at it What's wrong with Mina the size of him he should be scoring a lot more with his head from corners. We need a good sort out but id wait until the summer and get rid of the shite at the same time
Kunal Desai
163 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:41
I think his time is nearly up and in the summer i'd start looking for a number one goalkeeper. Take the hit on Pickford and move him on. There are just far too many mistakes in this fella.
Eddie Dunn
164 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:46
Could never have imagined it all going to shit in such a short time. Carlo was at fault as was Tom and our two bungling centre backs off the pitch. Many are culpable for that crazy last 90 seconds. What has regularly cost us all over the park is players falling/diving slipping over onto their arses, as once esconsed on the ground they simply cannot do much about anything. Are they all just so tired? Why where there so many watching the ball? Zonal marking has it's place but that Frenchman Le jeune had all day to do an overhead kick. Really! Why, in that moment couldn't have one of them got closer to the ball to stop him- it would have been dangerous play at the very least? I have been saddened by our bunch of pansys many times this season, but this was the worst case, as Newcastle were so utterly shite for 93 minutes.
Shane Corcoran
165 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:53
You thought the smelly breath was funny Jay? I thought “you're a dick Dominic”.
Terry Farrell
166 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:58
DCL and Mason were both on the receiving end some months ago but now they are cutting the mustard, established and they have deserved to be cut some slack. Tom Davies didn't have his best game at west ham and today the foul on the halfway line was stupid and cost us. However there are some awful comments on here and I don't get how knowledgeable fans want to hang him out to dry. If he hasn't made it by 24 then he will move to a championship club but the kid is talented and slagging him off will fulfill your opinions. Moise Kean has been very poor and finally tonight some light at the end of the tunnel but it's been a long time coming. Ok Tom's older but some perspective is needed unless you expect a seasoned pro at 22 which will be about 5% of pros if that!
Simon Smith
167 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:51:06
2 weeks isn't long enough Dave. I don't think I can continually put myself through this. My mental health won't take it!
Everton must be Latin for bottlers!
Steve Ferns
168 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:52:06
Darren, Duncan Ferguson never got rid of Zonal Marking. In the Chelsea and Leicester home games for definite he played the Marco Silva zonal marking hybrid system, with 3 across the 6 yard box, and the rest man for man. He never changed what Silva had shifted to. Ancelotti has brought back a complete zonal marking system. Whether zonal marking was the reason or not, I will have to wait and see the TV pictures. Sounds to me like defensive errors, and the players should be responsible rather than the system.

And yes, if it were me, I would go man for man, in the old British style.

Colin Glassar
169 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:52:23
Carlo is putting it down to it being “just one of those things that can happen”. Madonna mia, Carlo. I hope you're not being serious. This has echoes of “phenomenal “
Tony Abrahams
170 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:55:36
Jamie, Darren might have a point about zonal, but our keeper is not very good at dealing with crosses, and although Jordan might be a fantastic shot-stopper? I always judge a good keeper on the saves he doesn't have to make.

Average but solid, seems so much better than being flamboyant, when I think about how a goalkeeper should be?

Mike Doyle
171 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:55:53
Chaps. Despite his shortcomings, Tom Davies Is not solely responsible for yet another collapse against a poor (and apparently injury decimated) side we should have beaten comfortably.
Also Tom was not on the field when we were humiliated by Liverpool's U15 side at Anfield a couple of weeks back.
Whatever our problems are they run much deeper than Tom Davies.
Peter Neilson
172 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:55:59
Disappointed, frustrated, angry, combination of all three. Glad we've now got a break from this torment. I agree that at least two of the substitutions looked suspect (whys Niasse even on the bench?).Pretty much any Sunday League team would have seen that game out even after conceding one. Last seconds of the game, other end of the pitch into the corner but no we're Everton. Disappointed as for 70 plus minutes that's the best we've played this season. Hopefully Carlo has now learnt he can't shut up shop and bank the points with this squad of players.
James Byrne
173 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:58:04
For those TW's pointing blame at Pickford or even Digne, have a think about the complete bollocks you are talking about.

We were winning 2.0 FFS to a side riddled with injuries, away from home and who were not that arsed on the night. You don't bring on "fresh legs" to sit back and defend, you push the ball up into safe spaces and push the game out, at the same time, running the clock down.

Why the fuck have we not got players like Bernard, Walcott and Keane who came off but should surely have 90 mins in them.

Davies and Niasse should never wear the shirt again after that gutless display.

Jim Bennings
174 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:59:17
I know it upsets people (some) on here but I just can't be having Jordan Pickford.

Yes he makes some goods stops but in big moments he's piss weak.

Every time that ball is in the air from crosses or set pieces he's a flapper and as a defender I can't imagine that ever instilling any confidence.

You could never imagine Big Nev or Nigel Martyn being so vulnerable on these areas, that for me is what will always stop Pickford being a top keeper, another player that has regressed instead on progressed this last 18 months.

John Keating
175 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:59:26
If we got rid of Pickford and replaced him with anyone who could command his 6 yard box, let alone area, we would be a better team.
The ground was stunned come full time. I doubt anyone could believe the last 2 minutes.
A goalie has to come or stay but if he comes he has to either get the ball or get a good clearance.
Pickford has never achieved this.

As I mentioned earlier Walcott and Kean were blowing well before they were subbed.
We do lack leaders on the pitch but regardless the goalie has to rule the penalty area, certainly the six yard box.

2 points dropped tonight and 2 against West Ham. We could and should be well up there

Christy Ring
176 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:00:10
Jerome @131, blaming Coleman for the two goals, really? You might have no time for Seamus, but don't get carried away.
Kieran Kinsella
177 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:01:34
Tom is young brigade. there are 15 year old Olympic champion ice skaters and gymnasts under way more individual pressure not making a penny. Teen swimmers. Becker and Hingis at 16 and 15 tennis champions. In football you had Rooney and Milner playing regularly at 16. Tom Davies is a grown ass man earning millions. Grow up and act like a man
Jim Bennings
178 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:02:00
Carlo is a fabulous man with a fabulous record but unless we can attract absolute superstar talent (I'm talking like de Bruyne, Van Dijk, Salah) then Carlo Magnifico will go the same way as our last four managers.

You cannot polish a turd as they say and we have got a steaming hot £400 million pound one right under our noses

Conor McCourt
179 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:04:29
The worst thing about his subs were that they were defensive in nature yet Keane his tallest defender was not called upon. So we play with a defensive structure inviting pressure against a team who had just brought on 2 6 foot centre halfs and the only giant we have is Mina.

Absolutely lunacy

Rob Dolby
180 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:07:38
Not sure how that happened. Supporting the blues is a constant roller coaster of lows.

Still scratching my head, it feels like only Everton can manage to throw games away like this.

One of our most dominant games this season only to throw it away at the end.

No need whatsoever to make any of the subs. Doesn't help that Pickford is anchored to his line and that all 3 subs weakened us.

You gotta laugh following us otherwise you would go mad.

Not sure about the players needing a rest, think us fans need a break every now and then.

Got to go, the men with the white coats are at the door.

Tony Abrahams
181 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:09:47
From 8th to 12th in the blink of an eye, which just shows how tight this league is right now. We played like a team on the up, then we showed our true-selfs, and self destructed, but at least we were a lot better with the ball at times tonight, and if we can bring a couple of decent players in now, at least we might start getting entertained again, instead of entertaining everyone else! Goodnight.
Bill Griffiths
182 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:09:52
My thoughts are exactly the same as yours Jsy,,(155).
The one thing I don't understand is why Niasse is on the bench at all, never mind bringing him on. Surely this was a moment to give Anthony Gordon more minutes in a game we were winning and looking comfortable.
Though still in shock I am still confident Carlo will be a great success.
Andy Riley
183 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:11:44
Jay 155 - having recently got in from the game I think that you're really measured and positive view has reduced my initial negative one based on the last two minutes and one of the most disappointing feelings I've had in the last 50 years. Reminded me a lot if the 1980 FA Cup semi against West Ham in those feelings but having read your post the game overall should be seen in a positive light and I think the future is the brightest we've had probably since we signed Kanchelskis and Speed after winning the FA Cup in 1995. A couple of similar standard players with a similar winning mentality couple really move us on.
Mike Doyle
184 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:12:00
Jim 178] sadly I suspect you are correct.
While I'm sure we'd all love to know what promises Carlo has been given ref transfer budget, my concern is that Brands has been reported as saying that we are not in the position of shopping for £50+ million players.
Roger Helm
185 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:13:59
Useless weak cowardly incompetent bastards. The fans should go on strike until Kenwright and his crew of cronies f@@k off and their successors recruit some players worthy of the shirt. Only Holgate DCL Richarlison and perhaps Kean are worth keeping. We are a laughing stock.
Tony Hill
186 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:15:22
Lovely to see DCL's first touch so tight today and he's oozing confidence. Holgate is just imperious at the moment.

Schneiderlin put in a couple of passes which were superbly incisive and he looked back to his best.

Young Kean was a joy to watch, full of life and promise.

It's not all shit after that game, far from it. The rhythm of our play and the crispness of our transitions were a pleasure to see. God knows why the manager chose to fuck with it.

I'd give Lossl a go by the way.

Brent Stephens
187 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:19:39
Roger Helm " The fans should go on strike until Kenwright and his crew of cronies f@@k off".

Yes, Kenwright played terribly tonight. Should have been substituted.

Alan Brown
188 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:20:07
Having downed two large glasses of wine I feel a bit more relaxed about our 'snatching defeat (thats how it feels) from the jaws of victory' performance. Admittedly, against very poor opposition, we played some really decent football. the 11 players all did well - Delph and Schneiderlin included. Bernard was superb. DCL and Keans goals were great.

poor subs - yes. losing composure yes - been like that for while.

I'll take the 92 minutes and try and forget the last two.

Paul Birmingham
189 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:23:02
As Dave@154, states a couple of weeks with out a game, and Detox, may do us and the squad some good.

The calamities I fear will remain, until the club builds the core around some real leaders of men on the pitch.

It's almost a case of not if, but when, another cock up is gonna happen in or just outside our box.

Pray to God that our two powerhouse midfielders get back soon, but unlikely and they will take time to get going.

The self proclaimed leader of the team on the pitch Fabian Delph, doesn't do it, and I think time seriously to make a new captain to start the gradual transition, at this time in terms of psyche and in summer hopefully with new players.

But I'm not sure if FFP, means there's a limit to our spend unless we sell, and make good profits.

Whatever, this squad, could be knocking on the Europa door, but the last two games, show they have no tactical game management and combat nous, to win and see out games.

No more cliches to say, but there's some genuine rays of hope, but Carlo will need to get some players, who have heart, fight, desire to win and be professional for 96 mins, every game they play.

Brian Wilkinson
190 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:25:12
What about Bernard Roger, he runs his plums off every game going forward, tracking back, no wonder the guys knackered after 70 mins, he is doing the work of three men.
Brent Stephens
191 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:25:59
Jay #155 "but for Davies and Digne playing silly buggers deep and tight in our own corner rather than launching it down the line, the corner their first goal comes from doesn't happen and the game is comfortably played out to the final whistle".

Absolutely. OK up until these fuck ups in the last minutes.

"And for me personally, there were far more positives to take from both the collective and individual performances of the players tonight than negatives that many are claiming".

Up until those goals that was the best performance of the season. Ancelotti has them playing. Blistering performances by Kean, DCL, Bernard, Holgate.

Bill Gienapp
192 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:26:22
Disappointing that the shambolic ending overshadowed an otherwise very good performance. Moise Kean had by far his best outing in an Everton shirt - not only the goal itself, but lots of positive workrate and he actually looked like he was enjoying himself out there. Hopefully a positive sign of things to come.

As for the much-maligned subs, Coleman and Davies didn't really bother me in the moment, though Davies sadly is deserving of all the scorn being thrown his way. Niasse made no sense whatsoever - even if you subscribe to the theory that he's being put in the shop window, how much of a case is he going to make for himself in a few minutes of action? There's no upside.

That being said, I'm not sure the subs really conceded the advantage to the degree some are making out though. Newcastle looked a lot more fluid over those last ten minutes or so, but they still weren't threatening in the slightest until that ill-fated corner kick. We flat-out crapped the bed at the end, plain and simple.

Brian Wilkinson
193 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:30:19
That is twice now Pickford has gifted Newcastle late goals carrying on from his banter with their fans the previous season or so.

Think it is time to give Lossl a run out.

Andy Crooks
194 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:30:52
Pete @ 106 I can only imagine how gutted you,Dave and the other lads I met, are. That was just hard to take. Jay @155, respect for putting up that post. You are a better man than me, because that surrender has put a knot in my gut that will a while to untie.
Being an Evertonian requires a stoicism that one must, it seems to me,be bred in the bone.
Ancelotti out!!!!.( kidding, by the way)
James Stewart
195 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:34:26
We played really well, while Bernard and Kean were on the pitch.

The subs were absolutely certifiable. Pickford (not for the first time) and Carlo only have themselves to blame. Why bring Bernard and Kean off? We don't have another game for ages! Idiotic.

Jim Bennings
196 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:38:58
Just watched the goals again and it just gets worse every time.

1) What the fuck did Delph blast the ball back into 50/50 territory straight from the kickoff instead of trying to maintain possession?

2) Why has Tom Davies still not matured as a player with three years and over 80 games experience under his belt, why does he not realise his limitations and lack of pace will NOT take him past players?

3) What the fuck is Coleman doing standing in no mans land?

4) What the fuck is Pickford doing on BOTH goals? Why is he behind his line on the second?
The guy has major mental issues.

I still can't believe it!

Richard Jones
197 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:39:40
Brent Stephens 187 Kenwright has been incompetent for the last 21 years and should have been fucked off by the fans years ago, never mind tonight.
Justin Doone
198 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:41:00
I'll have to defend the blaming of Davies. It was Digne who had time on the ball facing forward that should have cleared it 60 yards down the line.

Instead he passed 5 yards to Davies who was already marked and under pressure. Holgate did the sensible thing and cleared it for a throw in and that lead to the corner.

Their player, 6 yards out, unmarked scores. He was in between zones. I'm not sure who to blame for the poor marking but I do know our attempts at zonal marking have been pathetic and need to to stop.

From the restart why did we rush punting the ball forward?

Anyway.. Davies concedes a free kick. He didn't do much wrong but we had no one within 30 yards of the free kick. They had time to pass it a few times and pick out a runner. They should have been closed down and forced to rush it or play it first time.

Blaming Davies for missing a header that was 4ft above his and Holgates head is ridiculous. Digne was not in position. Holgate didn't stay marking his man and Pickford jumping 3ft behind his goal line is just stupid.

Silly free kick, yes, unlucky and totally avoidable yes. Absolutely shocking end result (not for the first time) absolutely.

But I'll look at the positives and I'm happy for both our forwards who scored and played well.

Ancelotti needs to learn quickly about players, tactics, marking and hopefully give a few more youngster a chance to impress before the season is out.

I get we all have different perspectives and opinions but once again IMO a young player is unfairly blamed for conceding 2 goals after giving away one free kick on the half way line. Go figure?

Colin Glassar
199 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:43:40
I wonder if they'll now be given a weeks hols in Dubai or Spain as a reward for their efforts and never say die attitude?

A week in the Scottish highlands in their undies (to toughen them up) would be far more suitable imo.

Mark Wilson
200 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:45:09
It's just endless the utter shite this club puts you thru. Tonight was one of the worst, not as bad as the defeat to the RS nursery but still gut wrenching.

Tom Davies ? There may come a time when being ever so gently critical of the lad doesn't bring down the wrath of the “local lad protection league” but somehow I doubt it. We've given him a juicy new contract with no doubt wages the best Championship clubs can't match and he's unlikely to attract many offers from prem clubs. He's desperately slow, careless, lacks discipline and loses concentration very easily. But he's local,and he did score that goal against Man City. Sigh, it's so bloody Everton. We need funds this window and even after a season where I think this decent lad has been badly found out, maybe just maybe a struggling side below us could be tempted to take him for £12m ? Cue howls of anguish but for pity's sake surely he's not going to change enough or train on. and on again to survive Carlo's revamp ?

As for the rest, starting to really worry about Pickford. He has too many blips now. Couple of very good saves v West Ham but tonight conspired with Tom and couple of others to really cost us the three points. And yes I get it that we also missed a few really good chances to double the lead. It's just a thought but I'm not sure he will go to Euro's as no1 ?

Head keeps moving left to right as I still cannot honestly believe even we let this happen.

Jim Bennings
201 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:46:22
Leave the fuckers in the Middle East for all I care!

Everton Football Club goes to great lengths to embarrass its fans each time it sets foot on the pitch whilst we share a city with a team clean sweeping Europe with a machine like great team.

This season will be well and truly summed up for me watching the Redshite lift the Premier League title at Goodison at the end of March, it's a certainty.

Brent Stephens
202 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:47:34
Richard Jones - what did Kenwright do wrong TONIGHT?

No answer came the stern reply!

Ian Riley
203 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:47:50
These are professional footballers. No one else to blame. The 94th minute and 2-0 up. I am to blame I suppose because I reviewed the premiership table on the 90th minute mark. We were top eight and four points of sixth. I started to believe top six is on here this season. Then the football god's started to laugh. You know the rest.

This was down to the players. Unprofessional! I suppose they will be off for a week in the sun now? Thanks lads!

Andy Crooks
204 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:48:19
Value for money, is Niasse the worst player ever to wear the shirt? How on earth did our coach think it proper to let that useless specimen walk on in a blue shirt. No locker? Fuck me, Koeman didn't get much right, but that was his best piece of work.
Niasse and Martinez, as low as we have ever sunk.
Jim Bennings
205 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:53:17
Koeman saw right through Niasse for the garbage he is!

Yes he hit a purple patch when he tripped a few into the net and a few went in off his arse but he's an absolutely terrible footballer simple as that, and it just makes us as fans look pathetic worshipping donkeys like this, fans at Spurs, Liverpool, Leicester even wouldn't tolerate bollox like we do.

Andy Crooks
206 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:54:30
Jim Bennings, I will go to bed knowing that there is an Evertonian on here angrier than me, well, fucking loads, actually. My best mate is an Iranian Geordie.. My phone is switched off.
Jim Bennings
207 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:58:39
I'm just getting started Andy.

I am absolutely seething about that tonight, I thought I'd seen it all with this club but that tonight?

That's just takes the absolute piss!

2-0 up with 60 seconds left.

From 8th to 12th in 60 seconds at home to a Newcastle team that didn't look like scoring if they'd played all week.

Nil Satis Nisi Fuckin Optimum

My fuckin arse!!

Andrew James
208 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:58:42
Mike Gaynes @53

Right, had enough of this. On one hand you buddy up with a lot of our Merseyside based fans and seem like you wouldn't hurt a fly and then after a defeat you get spiteful. You have previous for this but for whatever reason don't get curtailed by Lyndon or Michael.

To call Tom Davies a moron with a low IQ is just contemptible.

Context is required here. Yes he made a mistake but Digne didn't exactly cover himself in glory.

Then let's get onto Ancelotti's original line up and subsequent subs. Can we also wonder why we weren't more goals up against a pathetic Newcastle side?

But let's not look at the experienced veterans in the midfield who didn't put them to the sword because they have no real attacking threat or the clumsy striker that was sent on. Let's just abuse the young lad who cares more for the club than anyone else on the pitch.

The way the career of Tom Davies is being managed by Everton is shocking. He gets dropped for months, then shoved in when we have injuries or are struggling and then is expected to perform well immediately in a run of crucial games with a variety of midfield partners.

He usually gets dropped as one coach after another persists with clowns like Schneiderlin and so it continues.

Tom has the habit of giving the ball away because he tries to be brave. Yes, he makes mistakes.

But we should have been either 3 or 4 up against an abject Newcastle side or the players a decade older than him like Schneiderlin and Delph able to step in and slow the game down.

For someone who features on just about every thread and claims they played the game, you don't half come across as some RS fan from Cornwall who has never kicked a ball.

Alan Brown
209 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:00:43
on the third glass of wine. so excuse the spelling. yeah tonight result ain't great but isn't 1 defeat in 10. and given we were 17th before thst then that's not bad.

jim@201 - stoicism as someone earlier said

'the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint'

tis a cross to bear

John P McFarlane
210 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:01:47
Complacency is the key word in the TW headline but what the heck do Everton FC have to be complacent about? We can blame the manager, the players, zonal marking, daft substitutions or any number of other contributing factors but the harsh reality is that the club has become soft-centred.

This hasn't happened overnight it has been at least a decade in the making, if not longer. Dropping points to far less-talented teams home or away has become the norm not the exception.

Duncan Ferguson must have the inside track on how this current crop will react to certain challenges and he must have his own ideas on how to avoid calamaties like we witnessed in the final two minutes of tonight's game, but will Carlo listen to him? Does Carlo seek his advice before or during a match? Did Carlo do his homework on the players he has at his disposal? Does Duncan offer his opinions and ideas to his boss?

Twice in the last two home matches, questionable decisions have been made which could have cost us points, the Brighton game we just about got away with it, tonight we didn't - citing Instanbul is hardly a good point to make to those of us who reside on Merseyside and once again a 'world' name in football seems to underestimate the strength of feeling of most local fans when it comes to our nearest and not so dearest rivals.

I'd much prefer that Carlo had said he had made a mistake with his subs or his tactics rather than say 'these things happen!'. We all know that to be the case but when they happen to our team, game upon game, month upon month, season upon season, we need more than a shrug of the shoulders to placate us. We want all the staff at Goodison to root out the reasons, why it happens so often, to our team. We want all of the playing staff to address the issues and find the solutions to prevent it from happening again.

This season is not yet over and due to tonight's silliness we aren't safe from the dreaded drop. Tonight, we should have been looking at those teams above us as we closed the gap on them, instead we are left to worry about the remainder of the campaign and how this current crop can manage to make a bad season even worse.

Get it fixed Carlo, there's no time to lose.

Andy Crooks
211 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:03:05
Brent, " what did Kenwright do wrong tonight"?.
Here's what. He should have picked up his boots, walked to the dressing room told Ancelotti that Niasse is a useless c**t, and demanded that he take his place.We would have won and Blue Bill would be a legend.
Phil Rodgers
212 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:04:58
I genuinely can't remember being this pissed off about a football match. Newcastle deserved absolutely nothing from that game. NOTHING. Awful football, awful players but mentally we are so weak we cannot cope with the slightest bit of pressure. I can't sleep I'm that angry.
Bill Fairfield
213 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:09:49
Though dissapointed with the result thought some of our football was very good tonight,a step in the right direction, players must be gutted after such a good performance
John Boon
214 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:10:54
No Evertonian could be anything but stressed to the limit by what happened today. Three hours after the game it is still mind boggling that we contrived to lose. However it has also given supporters time to at least analyse just how we managed to screw up the game. All the problems have been analysed by the posters I have seen.I still am 100% behind Ancelotti despite the fact that in trying to include those players on the bench he changed the impetus and focus that the team had demonstrated previously.To be more specific

(1) The substitutions were a disaster.
(2)The present team do not know the basics of finishing off a game
(3)For the last goal Pickford was standing two feet behind the line. If he catches the ball it will be a goal.
(4)Pickford is a great stopper who cannot command his area on corners and free kicks
(5)We have too many players who just do not "THINK". I will not name them,but we all know who they are.
(6)I don't think that Ancelotti is an arrogant man. I think he will learn from this game.
(7)I will also learn from this game. As a Super Senior I continue to realise that you have to be strong,loyal and DAFT to be an Evertonian but I cannot change.

Paul Jones
215 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:12:13
I found it odd that we put on Niasse and Davies to see out a game for a routine win. It is known to anyone who has watched Everton over the last few years that neither is remotely capable of consistently holding onto the ball, finding a team mate with a pass, or holding a defensive position for the team. I also do wonder whether Pickford will ever have the composure or discipline to ever play well against Newcastle or Liverpool. Like Tim Howard does seem to concede goals when he is behind his own goal line.
Lynn Maher
216 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:13:32
I must confess to being a little perturbed by Ancelotti's after match interview.
When asked if he would analyse with the players, what went wrong in the last few minutes, he said no,because nothing had gone wrong!

I beg to differ.

Bill Watson
217 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:13:50
I'd have been gutted at 2-1 but 2-2 was horrendous and the result of rank poor game management and substitutions.

I've never previously had a go at Davies but it's becoming more and more apparent he's never going to be a top Premier player. He makes himself available and likes to move forward but this is far outweighed by his inability to go past a man, often resulting in him losing the ball and then committing needless fouls. This cost us 2 points tonight and ultimately cost us both the goals and all 3 points against Brighton away.

Ancelotti must take most of the blame by making some strange substitutions. Two of the players he introduced were instrumental in the 2 goals. The first goal resulted from Niasse losing possession in the centre and then not trying to retrieve the situation. Davies' errors for the second have been well documented on previous posts but, as the defender, Digne must take some responsibility, too. At that stage of the game you either belt it up the line or aim for row Z. Not too difficult to understand, even for some of our dim players

To me the obvious substitutions would have been to replace a
tiring Bernard with Gordon after about 70 mins and maybe bring on Keane near the end. I could understand bringing Coleman on at right back because Sidibe was having another nightmare. Ancelotti's substitutions disrupted the pattern of the side and we lost all momentum

Like at West Ham, most of Newcastle's attacks started with us passing the ball to them and we still persisted in pfaffing about across the back. Although Ancelotti picked up on this after Saturday's game it was happening again, tonight. Why do some of our players find it so difficult to make a 5 yard pass?

MoM, for me was Holgate. Also credit to Schneiderlin who had a half decent game as did Walcott. Digne was again poor and his corners are usually dreadful. Does he practice hitting the first defender? I'm also starting to doubt if Mina will ever get a header on target!

Nicholas Ryan
218 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:16:00
Just too angry to post.
Brent Stephens
219 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:17:16
Andrew #208 "For someone who features on just about every thread and claims they played the game, you don't half come across as some RS fan from Cornwall who has never kicked a ball".

And you want Mike Gaynes "curtailed" by the moderators?!

James Gardner
220 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:17:59
How can Ancelotti be to blame? Seriously, how can anyone fault him for the players pathetic mentality?

Blaming his substitutions is absurd, who else could have come on and shored things up? The whole squad needs getting shot. There's not one player with a winning mentality in the whole squad!

I think it's naive to blame the manager,

Jim Harrison
221 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:18:50
So, that statement by Moshiri about losing two home games was disrespectful?

How about throw away a two goal lead and suddenly it's schoolboy stuff and utter shit show from the manager.

Sorry, the players let that slip. Individual mistakes added to a collective loss of concentration.
I mean, it's not as if this same grail of players have been cocking up defensive corners or giving needless free kicks in attacking areas away all season is it?

2 nil up, cruising, shore up and see out. The fact that Davies can't retain possession should be a blotch on him not his manager! We all know how shit Niasse is. But can we expect him to track? Basic expectation

Simon Dalzell
222 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:19:07
As a Tom Davies fan, my patience is wearing thin. 'Brainless' maybe not that far off. You could bet on him clattering matey at the end there. A totally unnecessary gift of a free kick.. In the opposition half, facing his own goal. Digne is not far behind in the stupid foul stakes. The proverbial ' football brain' does seem in short supply generally in our team. I would ' rest' Pickford.
John Atkins
223 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:19:11
I can't sleep, I still feel sick Everton really do let you down time and time again. Got to be a mentality thing at the club. This season can't end quick enough. Get to safety and let the rebuilding begin. I'm really getting pissed off with Pickford now, he's a decent keeper but for me he's just not good enough to play at the top level. He is totally at fault for both goals tonight. Absolutely shocking
Brent Stephens
224 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:20:42
Andy Crooks #211 - exactly.
Michael Long
225 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:21:47
Not bothered about the 92 minutes. A top team or normal team would ease that out. But once again, Everton football club out do themselves my opinion on players involved tonight regardless of tonight performance. I was angry after the Liverpool game now am just as bad.

Pickford - I backed him a lot after the mistake at Anfield last season. But now I realise he is the most overrated goalkeeper I have seen. So immature it's unbelievable. How is he 3 yards behind the goal line? Lads a joke. Get rid.

Coleman - Finished!!!! He was finished 3 years ago. But typical Everton pro long a servant when their legs have gone. Same as Howard, Distin, Hibbert and Osman. Great servants but kept them too long after they were finished now Coleman is in that category. Get rid.

Mina - A six foot five centre back who cannot header a ball properly and cannot pass a ball. 30 million down the drain. Yet somehow been a slight positive this season. Shows the mess right now.

Digne - Not the player he was last season. Can not take a corner without beating the first man. Looks nervous going forward. A player who needs a kick up his arse.

Delph - Hopeless!!! Absolutely hopeless. Got this lad in because he is a leader apparently. Bollocks!!! Only thing I've seen him do is argue with fans. Another on for the final big pay. Get rid.

Schneiderlin - How many more chances does this this lad need? He is crap, spineless and a poor professional. What does he offer? Seriously what does he offer? Happily pay for his travel for his next club. Please Fuck off.

Davies - Shit!!! Not good enough in any shape or form. Typical championship player at best. Feel like some fans still live of the goal he scored against City 3 years ago. Not good enough. Get rid.

Walcott - Did not see the hype when he was at Arsenal. Was disappointed when we signed him alone but for 20 million fucking pounds!!!! Waste of time, waste of wages and a average player if that. Another one for the finalb big pay cheque. Get rid.

Niasse - Possibly if not the worst striker or player I have ever seen put on a Everton shirt. Like watching him play is like someone picked him out the stands and said go on. Clueless, wank and awful footballer. Considering the two teams he's been on loan at in England have both gone down shows not a good reading. Just terminate his contract alongside Martina. Awful awful player. Never mind get rid, more like fuck off.

However all other players too are not the greatest either. Just a few examples. Don't get me started on Sigurdsson or Keane. This club is genuienly laughable. As much as I despise them. No wonder the RS laugh at us. If I did not support them. I'd laugh at Everton. Ancelotti is hands down in for the hardest job of his career to date.

If we get European football this season. Then it's shows just how laughable and shite this league is. This league is like the SPL. Especially this season. Same mistakes, same excuses and same old Everton. Always bottling it when there is a opportunity to move upwards. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum means nothing no more.

Phil Lewis
226 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:22:11
I have never been convinced by Pickford. I do not care how many acrobatic leaps or saves he makes, our goalkeeper does not inspire confidence. He remains a liability. His limitations were cruelly exposed once again tonight. It has got to the point were I'm waiting for the next error, almost expecting it. His tantrums and face pulling are the amateurish antics of a clown or dimwit. I would sell him tomorrow while he could still potentially command a hefty fee. We will do no good whatsoever until he is replaced by a proven, steady, commanding keeper. Acrobats and clowns belong in Circuses, not Goodison Park.
Don Alexander
227 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:26:42
CA is a consummate manager of skilled properly professional players in a properly professional training ground. His/our problem is that we have but a smattering, at best, of what he requires. That to me begs two questions; "Why did he join us" and "what was he promised in terms of re-shaping our mediocre squad"?

Answers on a postcard please.

Moving on, when he began his career four years ago Tom Davies was integrated into the England squad as a potentially "bright young thing". He's never been picked since though, unlike Winks, Mount, Hudson-Adoi and others of his age.

To me, and I regret to say it, he's displaying all the career characteristics of his uncle Alan, a bright start quickly fading into mundanity but, mercifully for Everton, somewhere else in Whittle's case.

But at least at FF Davies can mercifully turn to Unsy and Dunc, and Ebbrell and Jeffers, and now Sharpy of course, to try to grasp what it takes to achieve excellence as a footballer.


John Atkins
228 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:28:35
I watched Jack Butlands performance for Stoke last night against West Brom and he was superb, a very commanding performance and would be a far better option for us than Pickford . again we have to believe that a manager who has achieved so much in the game will know what to do
Ron Marr
229 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:30:10
Andy 211, that was an absolutely hilarious post.

I'm still in a state of shock. I had to go back to work with 86 minutes gone. I can't believe it. Well we've now got 2 games (Watford/Palace) in the next 32 days.

Andrew James
230 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:34:10
Brent - come on.

Be serious. Why are lots of "fans" on here slagging off our local lads and claiming they have great knowledge of the game and our club when they haven't played or known the game or seen it at British grounds?

It's a bit weird. If Dave or Tony Abrahams say stuff, I listen, or my Auntie and cousin. I listen.

Or Steve Ferns or yourself.

Why have you overlooked the remarks made by the plastic fan?

He said Tom Davies had an IQ score which is classed as retarded. That is indefensible.

Brian Wilkinson
231 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:36:30
John@210, do you think this could have been the reason Ferguson ruled himself out of the job, knowing what players he had to work with and knowing it will be another couple of seasons before we can offload players.
John P McFarlane
232 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:44:04
Brian #231 Very possibly, I wouldn't like to take the flak for some of these players either. However, if Duncan genuinely didn't want the job full-time or even part-time, you would hope that he has some influence and some input into the decision making process if not why is he there? It was so annoying that what was for the most part a very decent performance with some nice football played, it was totally undermined by some old bad habits and a distinct lack of professionalism.
John Atkins
233 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:45:48
A season to forget so far, utter disbelief, constant ridicule, laughing stocks, humiliation just friggin hurtful and cursed

Robbed at Brighton by VAR
Lose Gomez for the season
Gbamin out for most of the season
Concede 5 goals away at Anfield
Knocked out of the FA Cup by kids
Lose on penalties in a cup QF
Lose a 2 nil lead In a game we dominated in the 94th & 95th minute
The RS romping away with the league

Please fast forward to August

Jamie Crowley
234 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:47:10
Lots of justifiable anger. I've gone for a run, had a bowl of soup on a cold night, calmed down a bit, and I think there's a few things to point out regarding this game for me.

We were very, very good. There's improvement under Carlo to be sure. Kean scored, as did DCL. We moved the ball wonderfully. Things were much more joined up. We didn't faf around near as much at the back. The team is looking much, much better moving forward under Carlo.

Tom Davies is a good player. I've defended him numerous times and sung his praises previously. I desperately want the kid to succeed. A Floridian has to root for a Surfer Boi amongst a sea of Q-Tip haircuts. But someone has to have a word with him, and he simply must stop giving the ball away at crucial moments in games, in terrible spots on the field, and use better judgement. For me, his bar needs to be raised precisely now at this very moment. If he can't learn from this, he simply will never learn. Give the ball away all day trying to pull off those penetrating, offensive (Yank alert!) passes. Stop giving the ball away or committing fouls in our own third, or in crucial parts of the game. He has to change his ways. But I'm still in hold mode with him, and not sell mode. Too much potential, too young. Unless he keeps giving that damn ball away in our own end / not using his head.

This team, full of younger players I might add, is getting better. They just got kicked in the nuts tonight, along with the supporters. More focus, and more play like the first 90 minutes this evening, and we're on our way up.

I keep preaching patience, it's time to practice what I preach. Things aren't as bad as they seem. From a macro perspective, they're actually good and improving.

Tough fucking loss. Really harsh. But I still think things are improving, and will get better. That won't console anyone tonight I realize, but for me it's worth mentioning.

Derek Thomas
235 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:48:51
Our bench is poor...our 11 are poor - and yet we were still cruising...if not exactly looking for a 3rd, but at least playing the game in their half, because Newcastle were even poorer. We had it easy in control.

I know Ancelotti doesnt have much to work with, but you have to ask - and not just because we threw it away...did it really, really, need changing with no game this weekend.

All this shows the league middle places - where we are and will stay - will be decided in direct correlation to the degree of inconsistency shown by each team...all the teams above us are slightly less inconsistent than us.Which is why nobody is putting in a run and galloping up the table.

Not only does Ancelotti need to look at the quality of his Squad, he has to look at the quality of his decisions. This is not the first poor subtitution(s) he's made...but as I said at the top he hasn't got a lot to work with.

A draw snatched from the jaws of Victory - hardly new.

As always with the Country Rd Inconsistants - more questions than answers

Brian Wilkinson
236 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:52:15
Why have Niasse on though, anyone watching his performance will stay well clear, is it any wonder he is turning down sides when he is getting bit part games at Everton.

You would have though Duncs input should be reasoned with,

After the last game, I am totally baffled at 2 nil up he did not put Gordon on, if the game is tight then fair enough, but e were wave after wave of attack and playing some of our best football of the season, the perfect time to give Gordon another cameo role.

Brent Stephens
237 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:53:18
Andrew it was the hypocrisy of calling for Mike to be red carded when you posted "For someone who features on just about every thread and claims they played the game, you don't half come across as some RS fan from Cornwall who has never kicked a ball".

That's out of order as per ToffeeWeb rules of engagement - read them.

Jamie Crowley
238 Posted 22/01/2020 at 01:03:29
Andrew @ 230 -

Why have you overlooked the remarks made by the plastic fan?

Ouch. That one even hurt me a little bit.

John Atkins
239 Posted 22/01/2020 at 01:05:28
I still can't sleep and keep looking at the result shaking me head. I think I actually feel worse than the FA cup defeat.
Brian Wilkinson
240 Posted 22/01/2020 at 01:05:51
Andy@204 I will raise you with Sandro and Ashley Williams.
Mike Gaynes
241 Posted 22/01/2020 at 02:03:51
Why thanky, Andrew James.

I will give your insults all the consideration they are worth.

*(ponder, ponder, ponder)*

OK, all finished. Thanks again.

Steve Carter
242 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:39:00
Yes, some harsh words here. We're all upset, and perhaps Mike may have expressed himself in a more moderate manner re Tom Davies had he not been posting in the immediate aftermath of this debacle. But Andrew, equating an Evertonian with a plastic RS, is pretty OTT, isn't it? That fact that someone might not live on, or come from, Merseyside doesn't mean they aren't as truly passionate or knowledgeable about Everton as those that do or have. I mean, we all hate the RS with an incandescent rage, and those of us who reside overseas and get to see the glory hunting strapons poncing around in their shirts or hear 92,000 of them signing YHWA at the MCG (simply because it happened to be on a news report, mind you) well know what a plastic fan looks like.
Kieran Kinsella
243 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:50:42

I'd agree. We lost to the Geordies tonight but our best manager was a lad from there not a local.

Mick Davies
244 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:56:02
Andrew James @ 208, you really come across as some kind of retard with a chip on his shoulder: WTF does this mean?: "But let's not look at the experienced veterans in the midfield who didn't put them to the sword because they have no real attacking threat or the clumsy striker that was sent on. Let's just abuse the young lad who cares more for the club than anyone else on the pitch." I think the midfield HAD put them to the sword; we were 2-0 up and if the strikers had been more clinical, and Mina never had a 50p shaped head, we could have been 6 up, so what was wrong there?
"The way the career of Tom Davies is being managed by Everton is shocking. He gets dropped for months, then shoved in when we have injuries or are struggling and then is expected to perform well immediately in a run of crucial games with a variety of midfield partners." Erm, I know this might sound like a long shot, but, don't you think, if he was playing well, he wouldn't get dropped?
"Tom has the habit of giving the ball away because he tries to be brave. Yes, he makes mistakes." Well that has to be the daftest comment ever on TW: by the same token, you could say Niasse is really a fantastic striker, he just doesn't score any goals due to his bravery.
"But we should have been either 3 or 4 up against an abject Newcastle side or the players a decade older than him like Schneiderlin and Delph able to step in and slow the game down."
Are you serious? The game was played at probably the highest tempo we've seen all season, until 'young' Tom Davies comes on and needs about 5 mins to decide what he's going to do once he receives the ball. He then invariably loses it.
"For someone who features on just about every thread and claims they played the game, you don't half come across as some RS fan from Cornwall who has never kicked a ball." That seems to me like a personal vendetta against a man who has constantly brightened TW threads up with his illuminating stories about his love of Everton, so to accuse him of being a kopite is just churlish - whatever you've got against Mike I've no idea, but whether he's kicked a ball or not, as an Evertonian, he has the right to criticise the team, manager, club etc if he feels justified, so just leave it out and concentrate on the ridiculous statements you've made here; hopefully you'll see the error of your ways, and respect other people's opinions
Kieran Kinsella
245 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:59:28
Regarding Ancelottis comments you've got to remember he's a manager. He has to manage the players. Anyone who's ever managed will know different players react differently to stick and carrot. Ancelotti could've said “I'm an idiot I subbed on three shit players. To compound that Digne, Tom and Pickford all screwed up big time.” Those comments may reflect fans views but what kind of impact would they have on morale. I've always been taught to praise in public and scold in private.
Kieran Kinsella
246 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:59:30
Regarding Ancelottis comments you've got to remember he's a manager. He has to manage the players. Anyone who's ever managed will know different players react differently to stick and carrot. Ancelotti could've said “I'm an idiot I subbed on three shit players. To compound that Digne, Tom and Pickford all screwed up big time.” Those comments may reflect fans views but what kind of impact would they have on morale. I've always been taught to praise in public and scold in private.
Phil Smith
247 Posted 22/01/2020 at 04:28:38
I always had a soft spot for Niasse until today. Now he can do one. He's taking a spot off one of our kids who might actually give a shit if he comes on the field. I understand they're trying to offload him but his coming on cost us a point today. Would have rather seen Beni or Gordon on.
Alex Parr
248 Posted 22/01/2020 at 04:55:27
Please, please, PLEASE... FUCK OFF OUMAR. Get out of my club. You fucking thieving scoundrel.


BUT this fucker - it is quite clear he is a piss-taker. He refuses to leave on loan, numerous times so I hear. He wants to be the fucking sponge with no locker, soaking up wages, and these attempts to put him in the shop-window as embarrassing (and thats all I can assume it is, as a manager with the credentials of Ancelotti cannot possibly think he is genuinely good enough to play for EFC).

I would never wish an injury on a player, but I never want to see this fool play for us again. What a fraud. He cannot control a ball, his time on a pitch is akin to the theory of Shakespeare being typed by an infinite amount of any specific animal. Give him enough time on the pitch and something will come off the fuckers arse or chest or he can toe-poke a chance shot and it will fluke in.

DCL gets some shit on here, Niasse is treated like a cult hero by some. DCL is showing he 'could' be a top-flight footballer. Niasse has shown he is a fucking joker taking this club for everything he can, and because he doesn't get a locker (quite rightly) some people cry about him being treated appallingly. He is a shit shit SHIT footballer. He is an embarrassment to my club. He is one of the laughing stocks of English football, and that makes US the same. The fact this fucking baby giraffe of a player continues to get on the hallowed turf of Goodison wearing the Royal Blue is an utter disgrace.

For anyone who doesnt like this post... you either want a player like Oumar Niasse playing for EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB, OR YOU DO NOT. Do you ever think we will win fuck all again with him in the squad, I would play an Ellis Simms or a Anthony Gordon or Thomas Cannon or Lewis Dobbin ahead of this fucking ice-skating fool.

"Ohhh but he tries hard" - fuck off. Hes fucking shit. Hes a fraud. Hes a clown. "Oh but he smiles". Yeah I would too if I was taking £60,000 plus a week off a club I didn't give any emotional shit about and then didn't even have to put in the graft once or twice a week on the pitch.

Stop making excuses for this clown and make it clear he is not welcome at this club rather than painting him as a victim, and he might fuck off to a league more suiting for him. Sunday League or National League maybe. But not Premier League. And especially not for a club like Everton Football Club.



Steve Carter
249 Posted 22/01/2020 at 06:11:45
Some rant that, Alex. Just wonder why this result prompted it. Oumar came on with, what, 10 to go when we were 2-0 up and it doesn't seem, from Lynton's report at least (I didn't watch the game), that he bore any responsibility for us not scoring another from that point, let alone the injury time clusterfuck.
Ian Bennett
250 Posted 22/01/2020 at 06:36:53
The phone ins after the game blamed the manager. Absolute garbage.

It's the same players that have got Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, and Silva the sack. The same players that lost to a bunch of kids. This all too Everton, snatching a defeat at the jaws of victory.

Coleman, Pickford, Schneiderlein, Delph, Walcott, Niasse are serial losers. The latest episode in the soap opera of shite. Clear the decks, and start again. The experienced pros, are anything but.

Darren Hind
251 Posted 22/01/2020 at 06:45:36
We're all passionate about our club and its very painful to see the team we believe/hope to be on the up. Fall apart again, like this.

I have no issue with a few angry words. Its the stupid comments which some people spout after every disappointment which make major set backs all the more sickening.
For twenty five years, we have had highly paid managers from different parts of Europe.
These managers have had final say on who comes in. Final say on who goes out. Final say on tactics. Final on Selection. Final say on Substitutions. They have brought in coaches from all over Europe too, all duds like themselves and when they have gone British they have brought in footballing Einsteins like Steve Round. Collectively they have drained the club of enough money to build two stadiums on the Mersey and we are STILL shite.

Don Alexander will always offer a sound solution when we have lost.

Don doesnt have it in him to recognise those who have near destroyed this club. So he batters away at the ex players working in the lower echelons of the club for a fraction of the money the shysters have stolen.

Mr Alexander never has and never will know what these ex players do. What part they play. what their roles are. What contribution they make. He just knows he doesnt like them being there because they once played for the club.
It doesnt matter when they played for the club. Twenty/thirty/forty years ago. They will always find their way into an Alexander excuse, when he is apologising for the latest outside Mercenary.

Fifty years ago Alan Whittle scored enough goals to make an enormous contribution to Evertons title success. He never did become the superstar some expected him to be.. . . But quite why he becomes part of the latest Alexander inquest is... Nah Forget it.

Perhaps you should write an article about it Don. Save you coming back to say the same thing after every set back. Show people what you REALLY know.

I'm sure you'll get lots of responses this time

Liam Reilly
252 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:20:06
Players fault 100%.

My Sunday league team could've seen that game out at 2-1. The ball needed to be kept and if that wasn't possible, put it down in their corner and press them back.

Really hoping for a Fire sale in the summer. Apart from: Richarlison, Digne, Gomes and DCL, I wouldn't miss any of the rest of them.

Stephen Campbell
253 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:23:00
Let's be realistic about Tom Davies. He's been living on the back of that Man City performance a few seasons ago for far too long. He is no longer a boy but a grown man who is just not good enough. He needs a spell out on loan in a lower league or, better still, sell him if we can.

We got rid of a much better player when we sold Joe Williams to Wigan last summer for a song.,He did his bit out on loan and was outstanding at the clubs he played for and then we sold him and kept Davies — I just don't understand that logic!

Nev Renshaw
254 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:28:44
What a bloody useless shower this lot are. Our manager must be thinking "What the hell have I done coming to this place?". The game was won for God's sake. How could these arseholes throw it away so late in the game?. I'm so disappointed. They're not worthy of wearing the club's shirt.
Dan Nulty
255 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:37:42
I'm genuinely shocked at the level of vitriol on here.

Of course it is upsetting to draw from that position. I can guarantee the players are equally of not more gutted and are embarrassed to boot.

What is positive is the way the way we are playing with much more urgency than under Silva, Bernard is performing much better and Sidibe, whilst positionally is erratic, offensively he offers much more than Coleman since he came back from the nasty leg break.

Continuing improvement in Calvert Lewin is unbelievable, I was one of those criticising him 5 games in and I couldn't see where his goals were coming from. Proving me wrong.

Kean actually looked like a player last night, I would expect Ancelotti speaking Italian will have a big influence on him. It is a real opportunity for Kean and one he looks like he wants to take.

As Ancelotti said to the players after the game, yes, it hurts, but imagine how hurt you'd feel to be 3 nil up in a champions league final and lose, this is nothing.

The improvements are what matters now. Next season set your standards and expectations slightly higher. Mine will be.

Tony Hill
256 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:38:42
If Ancelotti ditches his strange desire to shut up shop when we don't need to then I think we can be pleased with progress so far.

I'm still of the view that, despite last night's wreckage, there were real signs of development in our play - crucially in our attacking transitions. It was not passing laterally for the sake of it.

We should still be looking to qualify for Europe. And with a few quality signings, we will have a strong side for next season.

Horrible last night but I think there are serious grounds for optimism.

Kenny Smith
257 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:40:16
Absolutely nothing to do with Ancelotti's changes. These are professional footballers and should of been able to see out the game.
This is just another nail in the coffin for some of this lot. The summer can't come fast enough.
John Pierce
258 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:41:06
Sadly lads, the positives we could take from that game have been irrevocably washed away by the last 90seconds.

Everton giveth, Everton take the away.

Kim Vivian
259 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:49:35
Well it's 7:00 am now and I have woken in a sort of "did that actually happen?" daze, or was I dreaming. Yep - it actually happened and frankly the odds of that injury time outcome are incalculable. I haven't had time to read through all the posts yet so my next point might, and probably has, been stated somewhere.

The first Newcastle goal was inexcusable bad defending as so often from corners and might have been glossed over but for the ridiculous pantomime that immediately followed. For me the blame can be laid squarely at that inane restart from their goal. It was plain as day to see what they were going to do and the restart itself was held up while players were got back behind the half way line - they were champing at the bit - and then Delph (I think, or was it Davies) launches a pointless evidently aimless kick off back towards our goal. Why the fuck we couldn't have played it short and launched the ball down to one of their corners defeats me. As soon as we kicked off I watched with horror as I counted the seconds (literally) down as the team performed a sort of footballing hari-kari in front of my eyes.

However - In the cold light of day I will take comfort from what was a really good performance from what amounted to a ramshackle cobbled together teamand I was thinking "hmmm - maybe we do have some footballers at the club". Now - I am not blaming the guy but if Oumar Niasse had not been on the pitch I guarantee we would have won that, probably 2-0 and today's thread would be a much happier place to be. Absolutely mind boggling to see him appear at the death (again quite literally as it turned out). I really did not worry for the outcome, but wondered why he was brought on (how wrong I was). I understand about wasting a few seconds with the substitutions and so on, but where is it written that one has to employ three substitutes. Sure, players from both sides will be getting tired, but for fucks sake there are another 7 (I discount the GK) who have to keep going. For just 5 minutes or so.

Niasse should have stayed on the bench - he offers nothing when we are in a winning position - and we play out the game with the players on the pitch and we win.

I'm still coming to terms with it but like a sort of earworm, that ridiculous restart from their goal keeps replaying in my mind. What were they thinking of?

Paul Tran
260 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:49:39
Well, the morning after, my views are exactly the same.

A very good performance against a poor side. Pickford misses a routine cross for goal one. Two defenders off the pitch and Pickford behind his line for goal two.

For me 'systems' are always a red herring. I'd like to see an Everton defence with a keeper that has presence, that commands his box, comes for crosses and takes them. You'd see a more 'settled' defence then.

Fair play to Newcastle. They were dogged and they knew that if you launch it into our box, there's a chance Pickford will do something daft. They gambled and won. And then that bunch of indifferent players exploited our mental frailty, as at Anfield.

Tony's right about keepers. They're best judged on what they don't need to do. I'd like a new one, please.

Gerry Quinn
261 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:54:05
Evertonians are torn not just fractured,
We do not lose, we self-destruct,
Those who understand need no explanation,
Those who don't understand – don't matter
Iain Latchford
262 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:05:57
This is the Premier League. You get punished for doing stupid things. Giving the ball away and conceding fouls in dangerous areas, along with corners, will be punished. Davies and Digne are the main culprits of this.

I don't blame the manager. An amateur side should see out a two nil lead in injury time. However, Digne needs to be taken off set pieces immediately. Corners are absolutely woeful. Then that free kick which he put literally about 20 feet over the bar. I don't rate him at all.

Kim Vivian
263 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:11:30
And I meant to say - if any player at any level from age 12 upwards wants reminding that the game isn't over until the FINAL whistle blows, just keep showing them the last 3 minutes of that match last night.

And Newcastle - credit where it's due - have won themselves 4 points from about 3 minutes of playing time in two matches. Astonishing.

Look on the bright side - we could be Chelsea. Imagine how their fans felt at the weekend.

Joe McMahon
264 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:19:43
I honestly feel we will never even qualify for Champions League at all with Pickford and Davies in the first team.
Steve Shave
265 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:25:44
I've had time to reflect, I'm still hurting bad, I'm still angry. we all know the failings and by whom instead of getting into a witch hunt (which I don't believe will help anything btw) I'd like to shine a light on some positives. Kean SCORED!!! what's more, he finally looked like the player people have spoken about in Italy, he was sharp, dangerous and industrious I saw green shoots of how that strike partnership could work, if it does this could change a great deal, allowing us to play our best player (Richy) on the wing, his work rate is incredible. Delph had his best game for us, he looked composed and at times commanding Schneiderlin (who I largely despise as a footballer) looked really solid alongside him and he passed forwards at times!! we have one outstanding CM to come back and another with very high potential also to return. Bernard was brilliant, if Carlo can get more consistency there we are going to benefit greatly. we may get a new player this month, probably on loan, someone who will hopefully keep everyone on their toes, fresh blood. Its early days of the Carlo reign, he is not an idiot, he will learn from that. COYB.
Danny Baily
266 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:30:06
It can be embarrassing to be associated with this club.

25 years of nothing whilst Blackburn Rovers, Portsmouth, Birmingham City, Leicester City, Aston Villa, Swansea City and Wigan Athletic have all won major trophies.

Add to that ridiculous last minute winners in the derby. Losing to kids in the derby. Not having won a derby for a decade. Blowing a two goal lead after 94 minutes.

Justin Doone
267 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:38:13
Fans, players, coaches all need to get over it.

Everton make the impossible a reality, sadly this is often in a negative way but I think many posts on here are a good example of what is wrong with the club.

Rant, rant, rant, blame, blame, blame..

I don't like my house, should I just shun it and buy another up the road?

Sounds great, only I need to put it up for sale, hopefully a buyer will be interested, I can agree to sell it and hopefully find another I like and can afford to buy before I move.

Reality is we want to do lots of things differently, but they take time, money and other people are involved with their own agenda's. It's not easy, especially when everyone else is is looking to buy and sell too.

In the meantime it helps to support and do the best with what we have. Smile people, we've nothing to play for anyway

Andrew Ellams
268 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:44:47
What happened last night was a disgrace and blame lies with the players and the manager. The substitutions were shocking and the arrogance of the players equally bad. Why take Kean off so early? We didn't need an extra defender at that point in the game.

What made it worse was they even took a striker off for a defender so it's not as if they even through the kitchen sink at us and got lucky.

Mark Murphy
269 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:45:03
I think We'll learn more from that 2-2 than we would've from a 2-0.
I don't think Carlo was shutting up shop as someone said, he wouldn't have put Davies and Niasse on if that was the case.
I think he is going through the combinations and giving them all a chance. Niasse for example was there to exploit the inevitable cavalry charge from Newcastle with quick breaks but the fact that he couldn't control the ball when given that opportunity spoke volumes and I don't expect to see him on the pitch for us again. Sadly for me Tom Davies showed why many match goers don't rate him and I no longer think he is the future. And finally, sell Ingerlunds number one and get Pope or any keeper that can catch crosses and at least command his six yard box!
Carlo will sort it! I'm 100% confident of that!
Mike Doyle
270 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:50:29
Interesting to read Newcastle fan site 'The Mag' view of the game - and our comedy keeper:


Nicholas Ryan
271 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:58:09
Still too angry to post properly. Moshiri should require everyone who was on the pitch or in the dugout last night, to write a personal letter of apology to Moise Kean.
Dave Ganley
272 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:09:20
Stupid comment Justin #267, did you even go to the game? Another full house supporting our dysfunctional team, cheering them on, urging them forward, actually supporting our team. To lose 2 goals in a minute is bordering on criminal and you start to have a go at the fans who back the team week in week out coming on saying rant rant rant, well I think we have every right to have a go after that debacle. What do you want us to do, say jolly good show, very entertaining, Newcastle deserved it?? Fucking stupid comment. We deserve better than that shit show of a finish of a game we absolutely dominated. The fans deserve better than the shit show that is this season
Dave Abrahams
273 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:17:28
If we had finished the game with a 2-0 victory I would still be challenging the substitutions made by Ancelotti, couldn't and still can't understand them, he will learn from this claim some posters, I certainly hope he doesn't take as long as Tom Davies is taking to understand playing the game, yes some players cost us the game, helped by the managers unessessary replacements.
Sam Hoare
274 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:19:31
Last night I didn't let myself post because I was too furious.

This morning, I'm still furious!

But I have a tad more optimism. It was one of the best 90 minutes we have played this season. We were in total control and created alot of chances against a low block (something we have struggled to do under Silva). We really should have been 3 or 4 goals up when injury time rocked up.

What happened then I'd like to consign to a combination of football freakery and a soft underbelly that is going to take more than a few weeks for Ancelotti to weedle out.

I'm loathe to blame the players too much after what was a great 90 minutes by most of them but for me Pickford is one of my prime concerns. He may be Englands number one and (like almost every keeper in the top leagues) he makes some impressive saves at times but I just think he's a very mediocre keeper. We know that he's not fantastic on crosses and the idea that he's a top class shot stopper is, i'm afraid, just not true. His save % this season is 62% which has him in the bottom 4 keepers in the league. Allison is on 84% while Dean Henderson (the next england keeper?) is on 76%. Pickford's highest percentage at us was 68% in his first season. He does not seem to be improving and I really don't see a top 6 keeper.

As for Everton I think if we keep playing like we did last night then we will win more than we lose. We were missing arguably 4 or 5 players in our strongest XI and yet controlled the match very comfortably for 90 minutes. Kean scored his first which is a great boost to him and we seemed to be creating far more chances than we have most of the season. Plenty of time now to re-gather for Watford who suffered their own collapse and if we can win that and get a few players back then I still think Europe is very gettable.

Ernie Baywood
275 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:20:33
Take the positives...

Kean turned up
Bernard turned up
Walcott looked reasonably dangerous
DCL continued his improvement

I even thought Schneiderlin had a decent game.

Just a ridiculous ending. It's nothing to do with Pickford's arms. It's everything to do with his decision making. Just ridiculous.

Jonathan Tasker
276 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:34:23
At some point in the hopefully very near future the club will launch a full investigation into every single transfer of players brought in under Walsh and Brands.
How is it possible that almost without exception each of these players has been either terrible at their job, perennially injured, brought in on exorbitant fees and or salary and on too long contracts.

The club looks absolutely ridiculous and is a dumping ground for other clubs' trash.
And that doesn't even take into account the various relationships with agents.
What is going on ? This isn't nil Satis, Nisi optimum.

Jason Lloyd
277 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:36:49
It's now obvious Pickford is not a top keeper. The stats over the last 2 years prove he is actually below average.

A keeper that can't command the box and punch that ball away well enough for the 1st goal is going to cost Everton about 10 points a season.

A top keeper adds 10 points a season.

That's a 20 point swing.

Think about that Ancelotti.

I would argue Allisson at Liverpool has added 10 points a season at Liverpool.

Bill Griffiths
278 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:37:36
Jamie (234) a drop of sanity in an ocean of madness. People need to look at the whole page not a single word.
Do people expect Carlo to take us straight to CL qualification with a squad of players down to the bare bones when even the full squad when fit is probably not quite good enough?
It is frustrating and will take him time. I don't always agree with some of his decisions but believe he is the man to take us forward and we have to give him thy time and trust to do so.
Dave Williams
279 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:38:43
Some understandably heated comments on this thread but no point falling out with each other. Mike calling Tom nasty names is not nice to read but emotions are running high after that collapse and he might think better of it now?
The disappointment runs deep- we could have been two points off fifth but are now still too close to the bottom three for comfort. I like Tom- I haven't seen the Sky highlights yet but the above comments leave little to the imagination- and usually defend him but players make mistakes and by the sound of it he certainly did that. Does it mean he won't make it as a player- no- but he has to learn and he has to kick on now. DCL has rammed the criticism down people's throats and Moise was copping for a load of it yesterday in the run up to the match but he has now shown that he can do it too. Maybe Toms turn will come yet.
However I don't defend Pickford. I side with those who want a taller keeper who can catch the ball and command the box. Pickford is too erratic and too short. Our defence needs a calming influence and I don't think it's him.
Can anyone say whether any of our more experienced players yelled at Tom to get rid of the ball last night? In my playing days any player messing around with a couple of minutes to go would have been told very clearly to hoof the ball as far from goal as possible in that situation and would then have been read the riot act by any number of colleagues. Did Delph,Morgan, Seamus etc play the senior pro role here or did they keep schtum. If the latter I'd be blaming them as much as Tom.
Jason Lloyd
280 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:39:29
Jonathan 276 some very good points.

Everton has become a dumping ground for players that agents can't shift.

Mino Riola and his ilk are good friends with Kenwright.

Phil Sammon
281 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:45:09
Jason 277

He wasn't good on the cross but I think it's harsh to blame Pickford for the capitulation.

I also think it's mad to start assigning a specific amount of points a keeper will cost / win you over a season. It's just not that simple.

Did he win us a point against West Ham?

Steve Ferns
282 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:59:58
Did no one else pick up on the fact that Tom Davies was not ready to come on?

He was warming up when Duncan Ferguson waved him over. As is the way, he had his shorts, socks, boots, and undershirt on, with tracksuit bottoms and top and bib on over them. He rushed over, got mostly changed and then was on the side-lines trying to take a drink and struggling to get his shirt on. He had barely got his shirt on as he ran onto the pitch.

I suppose everyone is different and every situation is different, but surely you need time to just set yourself, concentrate and focus on the task at hand. Of course once you cross the line you should be able to snap into it, and there must be similar situations were a sub has run on, looking ill-prepared, and then scored with their first touch.

It just seemed less than ideal, and perhaps we should have delayed making the substitution until he had his shirt on, focused, and Duncan or Carlo could have a quick word.

Instead, he ran on the pitch, and was immediately sloppy and off the pace. I may be wrong here, I just felt that the way he came on set the tone for how he played.

Oh and by the way, the comments against Mike Gaynes were uncalled for. However Mike, whatever you think about Tom Davies, the fact his he is a very intelligent young man, particularly for a football. Him and Matty Pennington are the only Everton footballers I've ever known to continue their education whilst playing for the club and both got their A' levels (exams taken by 18 year olds that preceed getting into University or College as you call it).

Andrew Dempsey
283 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:07:23
Liam #252

Can't agree, would have to say the opposite.
100% The Manager's fault.
He made the subs. The subs were baffling.
You don't have to make subs!
If your team are playing well (for once, but are ultimately quite fragile and desperately need the confidence boost of a decent performance) then why disrupt their flow when you're only 2-0 up? Even though, I'll admit, the game did have the strong illusion of appearing over.

Still, mistakes are made. And this one was the Manager's mistake. A bit more wisdom was needed there, Carlo. Think twice before changing the team dynamics, willy-nilly. Doesn't seem too smart or wise to me, Ancelotti.
I think he's a chancer, he's just been winging it his entire career.
A Napoli fan I spoke to said he's the worst manager they've ever had, which really shocked them because they thought they were getting an upgrade on Sarri.

The thing that stood out from this brief exchange was ‘baffling substitutions'.
To those who say this was on the players, I say this, no one was injured, no one needed taking off.
If he'd have kept those players on, we'd have scored again and won 3-0.
Maybe at 3-0, with 6 mins or so to go, then make some pointless subs.

Manager's fault - he disrupted the flow of that game for NO REASON. And he'll do it again.

Mike Corcoran
284 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:14:37
Pickford is the one saleable asset that we could maybe get our money back on. We should bite anyone's hand off to bring some cash in.
Eric Paul
285 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:16:13
Ancelloti a chancer ???
Steve Ferns
286 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:17:17
Andrew Dempsey, Carlo Ancelotti is "a chancer" who has been "winging it his whole career"? Wow, just wow.

Mike Corcoran, I asked the question about Butland a few times. I've seen nothing of Stoke so have no idea, apart from he supposedly had a good game last night, of how he has been. There was an opportunity to sell Pickford straight after the World Cup to Chelsea. We refused, and it was good at the time to be seen to keep hold of our star man, and look like a team that is going somewhere.

However, if someone was to give us, say 㿔m for Pickford, and we could pick up someone like Butland (or someone else who is decent) for half that and have 㿀m more to spend on a midfielder or centre-back, particularly a leader that we need, then it's a no-brainer for me.

Derek Knox
287 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:18:45
Steve F @282 whether he was wearing a tutu, had no make-up on, and wearing diver's lead boots does not excuse either him, or Carlo Ancelotti from making an ill-timed substitution.

Plus his pathetic attempt when he was on, almost contradicted his alleged education, what was he thinking? It's not as if it was his first appearance for the first team, and he was nervous or not sure. It was basic, see the game out, and don't do anything stupid!

Admittedly he wasn't alone, but that is hardly a mitigating excuse, I have been bombarded with RS mates sending texts and jokes about our pathetic relinquishment of a two goal lead in a minute.

I could reluctantly accept it if we had been outplayed for most of the game and our goals had been flukes, but it was the exact opposite, Newcastle did absolutely nothing until the 95th and 96th minutes.

Admittedly we should have been out of sight, and their two goals would have made little difference apart from denting our Goal Difference. We still lack that killer instinct, and complacently sit back on one and two goal leads!

John Boon
288 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:20:10
Still very disappointed twelve hours after the game. Reading all the posts I am not alone in my frustration. Time does heal and I needed to read Sam Hoare's post (274) to bring back some sanity to the situation. I must say I agree with your astute analysis and, for the sake of brevity I don't need to add any more because I would basically be repeating how I saw the game.
I try to read all the posts and I can understand the disappointment and distain in Michael Long's diatribe (225) where he is critical of every aspect of the game, all the players and Everton in general. Come On !! We played well for 93 minutes and then had the most idiotic two minutes in Everton history. It is often very difficult being an Evertonian and those two minutes affect our sanity and in turn our judgement. Tough but I will still always be a Blue.
Steve Ferns
289 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:26:24
Derek, it does not excuse him or Carlo. I just thought it was odd at the time, there he was rushing to get changed and straight onto the pitch, no waiting around, and no words from manager or coach. That he looked immediately off the pace makes me think that he was not quite ready and it should have been delayed until the next stoppage.

His education has nothing to do with football. Mike Gaynes said his IQ was 65. It's clearly a lot higher than that. But I knew plenty of very clever people who were brainless on a football field. I also know plenty of clever footballers who are far from it off the football field, our own Wayne Rooney springs to mind.

Derek, don't forget that Calvert-Lewin hit a lovely shot from just outside the box that hit the post and went against the keeper and out for a corner, another day that either creeps inside the post or comes back off the keeper and in. That would have been 3-0 and game over.

John Boon, I agree. Great Post Sam.

Conor McCourt
290 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:31:05
I don't blame Ancelotti

I blame Coleman because when he came on the impetus swung just like last week. Forget the fact that we take our best attacking outlet off to manage a left side which was causing no problems and forget that this sub entailed 3 defensive positional switches and had a winger playing up front.

I blame Davies because he was at fault for the goal and is so careless on the ball. Forget the fact that he was brought on by the manager to replace our best technician when we need to manage the game with 7 minutes to go.

I blame Niasse because he's the worst player to play for Everton. Forget the fact that Gordon was on the bench and that the previous subs had meant we were now facing direct balls into our box with 2 mins to go and we had one of biggest players on the bench when they had brought on 2 6ft centre halfs.

I blame Pickford for flapping at the cross. I don't blame the manager as one of the CBs they had brought on was free to challenge the keeper due to us bringing on Niasse and not Keane and Carlos love of zonal marking meant he was first free to challenge and then free to volley it into the net.

I don't blame Carlo I blame Kenwright, Martinez for signing Niasse, any other player I can, Finch Farm, and Everton for being Everton, Walsh, Koeman and the fans.

Actually I've just thought about it I blame no-one. Our mastermind has informed us "I've lost a CL final after leading from 3-0 so it can happen sometimes..there are things in football you can't control. We conceded without any reason..it's just unlucky for this game"

And there you have it despite Carlos 1990 tactics which should have cost us last week and has been a critique at his last few clubs this can all be put down to bad luck.

Andrew Ellams
291 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:35:14
Steve F. My view on Butland is if he still had what it takes he wouldn't still be at Stoke. Teams like West Ham and Villa have had goalkeeping issues over the past couple of years and yet nobody from the Premier League, or even overseas, has gone in for him.
Anthony Dove
292 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:37:39
Bad substitutions and bad goalkeeping ruined an otherwise promising evening, even though Newcastle were the worst team here this season. If we thought Carlo's substitutions were poor how about Bruce replacing a forward with a defender when they were two down?

Phil Lewis
293 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:42:36
I've posted earlier on this thread my fears for our future while Pickford remains our Number1.
I firmly believe goalkeeper to be the most important position in any team. It is impossible to retain any level of consistent success without a keeper who is competent in all aspects of his game. Pickford clearly is not. Yes he is capable of the spectacular, but in the next breath he is unable to perform the most basic of tasks required. Inevitably we leak too many goals on a regular basis. A shaky keeper equals a shaky defence. His erratic manner undoubtedly affects his defenders. The only good that can come from last night is if at the very least, the manager realises that Pickford does not warrant automatic selection. Why do we employ other goalkeepers if they are not allowed to prove themselves?
There is an old saying, 'You're only as good as your last song'. Well if you replace 'song' with 'game' we can at least take some positives from last night's disappointment. For long periods we showed improvement in several areas. Notably Moise Kean. At last he shows promise, I never thought possible. I'm not ready to eat my words about him just yet, but it is a start. Hopefully it will continue. It has to be said that Schneiderlin had a very good game. As did Bernard. Holgate continues to impress with calm assurance. On the downside, Digne needs a spell on the bench, he's nowhere near as sharp as last year. Baines should be recalled immediately. There is no need for me to add to the vitriol that Davies has received on here. He is a young player still learning his trade. Admittedly he has been prone to errors of late. Perhaps a spell out of the limelight would do him good, to sharpen up his game. It is nonsense for people to be writing him off at this stage of his career.
Michael Nisbet
294 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:44:13
I don't see how Pickford could possibly be blamed for last night. I don't think he did anything wrong. For me we can't get any better keeper than him.
Graeme Beresford
295 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:52:19
I honestly still can't believe the injury time. Something has got to change with added on time as if a ref gives 4 minutes and a goal goes in on 4+35 seconds then that isn't right.

This happened to us in the Liverpool Pickford derby. As soon as Allison taps the ball to the defender and the ball is hoofed forward, the game is over. Ref's seem to be allowed to continue play as they see fit but with no repercussions as to why more time was added.

When they score they all hurried back, there was hardly a time delay. Yet the ref allows more time which gives Newcastle one more opportunity. In my opinion again, when the defender taps the ball to the other player on the halfway line, the game is over. Madness that the ref's can get away with more time. It's so inconsistent because some ref's will blow bang on time yet some continue to play. Let's allow one last attack here crazy.

I think an overhaul is needed of the system. Official time keepers are needed, they tell the 4th official what added time there is and no matter where the ball is on the pitch, as soon as the time is up the game is over. Simple as. I love late goals but really the advantage was given to Newcastle last night because the ref allowed it.

Dave Pritchard
296 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:53:31
This was nowhere near as bad as the cup game at Anfield and partly one of those freak things that can happen although admittedly we seem to be involved in a few of these.
We played really well against a very poor Newcastle team. Bernard is an enigma and was excellent last night. Does he only play well against the poorer sides though? Digne much improved apart from his crossing. Schneiderlin was excellent and Delph pretty good too. They dominated against the two young brothers - if only something similar had happened against the Liverpool kids. I am with those criticising Ancelotti with the subs. Kean had run himself out so fair enough but taking Bernard off was a major mistake. Those calling Ancelotti a charlatan etc though are way off the mark.
Derek Knox
297 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:54:36
Michael @ 294, just look at his positioning for the second goal? He was clearly behind his goal line by about a yard, unforgiveable, and inexcusable.
Mike Owen
298 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:57:12
Well, I left at 2-0 and I'm sticking to that.
Stan Schofield
299 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:57:27
It goes without saying that it's yet another frustrating result where we lament "What the hell are you doing Everton?"

The positive side is that we were well on top, and could and should easily have won.

The negative side is the usual one of being mentally not quite right. There's no way we should be loosening the grip or relaxing because we're 2-0 up with a few minutes to go against a poor team.

It's that negative, mental fragility, side that really needs to change if we hope to really progress. And it's been a big issue for a long time.

Individual players need to stay focused, but we show a repeat pattern of not being able to do that. The goalkeeper needs to focus, to reduce the chances of stupid mistakes, but at the same time the outfield players need to focus to reduce the number of times the goalkeeper is exposed to such situations.

Pickford is a good goalkeeper, but makes costly mistakes. All the more reason for not exposing him to unnecessary situations where such mistakes are made. Keepers like Pickford are nothing new. There's a whole history of very good keepers who can be too prone to mistakes, but the ones who manage to thrive in successful teams do so because their teammates don't expose them too often.

This difference between mentally strong teams and ones that make too many cock-ups is the difference between being a top team compared with remaining midtable.

Graeme Beresford
300 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:57:45
Michael 294... he was at fault for both goals mate. Add it to his long list.

Derby shambles
Newcastle away last season
Man City away last season
Man City away this season
Newcastle home

The list goes on and on. He had nothing to save for 94 mins, yet when he was called upon he messed up. He punched a cross and missed the punch and is a yard behind his line for the second save, so so poor. Not good enough. Never has been, never will be.

Andrew Dempsey
301 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:58:24
Conor # 290

You're bang right.
We've hired a manager on top money, who's past-it at the top level.

And I mean the top, top, top drawer.

Craig Walker
302 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:03:50
I was playing 5-a-side last night and wasn't able to follow it closely. I knew we were 2-0 up. A teammate told me we'd conceded in the 94th minute and then said it was 2-2. I thought he was winding me up.

That is the difference between the mentality that runs through our club and that of the RS. They can be 2 goals down in injury time and still believe they can win the game. We have to be at least 3 goals up in stoppage time before we can all think that the points are in the bag.

It's probably unfair for me to comment having not seen it but I've read a few comments above criticising Pickford. I really think he is overrated and I don't like his attitude. This is the second game against the barcodes that we have thrown away a 2 goal lead because he gets too embroiled in a personal battle against his boyhood club's main rivals. He is too hot headed and plays like a kid in the playground who wants to make glory saves and be involved. He palms the ball back across goal so he can make a double save. I'm sick of seeing it. His distribution was supposed to be his strong attribute but I just see a player who invariably finds touch or an opposition player. Every now and again he finds a team mate and starts an attack but those few moments cloud our judgement. I'd like to see the stats on how many times he relinquishes possession. I'd prefer a keeper who is as reliable in the first minute as he is in the last and is a calming presence at the back.

In some ways, this result might prove to be a blessing. Ancelotti needs to realise the lack of quality in key areas and address it. The likes of Schneiderlin, Mina, Davies, Niasse, Keane, Delph, Iwobi, Walcott are not good enough for what this club expects and will prevent Ancelotti from achieving anything with us that would justify his huge salary. At the very least we need a reliable centre-half, creativity in midfield and a goalscorer. We also need to start recruiting players who are born winners because it is the same old failings that cost us: silly free-kicks in dangerous areas, switching off at set pieces, not being able to close out games etc.

Same old Everton.

Hugh Jenkins
303 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:07:12
If, at the end of the season, dropping two points last night costs us two positions in the league - what will that equate to in lost prize money?
Graeme Beresford
304 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:12:51
Andrew 301

Crazy comment.

This guy has managed some of the best teams in the league and let's have it right Newcastle couldn't of got any luckier last night. They brought a defender on who went up front because they had no fit strikers, he then scores an overhead kick and a goal mouth scramble goal, in 94th and 95th minute. Madness.

Yes I think his Niasse sub was a strange one but bringing Coleman on who is a defender and Davies who is a midfielder to see out our victory was tactically correct and if we would of won the game it would of been lauded as the correct decisions. It was a complete fluke but if you want to point the finger at someone, do it at Pickford not Carlo.

Let me ask you who you wanted in instead of Carlo?

Derek Knox
305 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:14:08
Mike @ 298, so it was your fault, brave man to admit that on TW! 😋
Raymond Fox
306 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:19:58
That was really tough to take, we were very much the better team.

Its Everton again though isn't it, supporting this club scambles your brain.
I think we need to get a witch doctor or one of our mystics in to exorcise the evil spirits.
Not that I believe in mumbo jumbo but its worth a try is it not!

As it is I think we will finish in 9th or 10th position, Ancelotti has the players performing well in the short time he's been here.

Derek Knox
307 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:31:42
Keystone Flops spring to mind.
Danny Broderick
308 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:36:22
To those criticising the subs:

If Carlo had brought on Gordon instead of Niasse, would we have won 2-0?

The reason we lost this game was down to Pickford not dealing with a cross for the first goal, and then standing behind the line to stop the second goal.

It's nothing to do with the subs.

Steve Brown
309 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:38:38
So Carlo is a chancer who adopts 1990s managerial tactics?

He has won the Champions League, Ligue 1, Budesliga and Premier League within the 10 years alone. So there must be some weird time continuum shit going on here to explain it all.

Last night was an embarrassing farce all round. Let's move on.

Daniel A Johnson
310 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:50:17
Carlo Ancelotti by all accounts is an honourable person. So he isn't going to do a Mourinho and throw players under the bus to the press.

He seemed in upbeat spirits after the match, refused to criticise the players and said we played well.

However, in private behind that closed door I'd like to think he's read the riot act after that collapse.

Lennart Hylen
311 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:50:22
It was probably the strangest game I have ever witnessed. Total control for 93 minutes. Newcastle did not have a shot on goal.

Then everything collapsed.

The ball is round so things like this can happen but the probability must be extremely unlikely.

We must now move on. We played really well and if we continue like this (except for the last 2 minutes) there will be no problems in the future.
Rome was not built in a day so we must give Carlo time to turn this super tanker on the right course.

Up the Toffees

Steve Ferns
312 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:55:24
Danny, at the time of the first sub we were well on top, we had the ball and we were dictating the game. By the second sub, we handed that to Newcastle.

If Anthony Gordon had come on, he would have put in more effort for sure. Niasse came on and strolled around the pitch. He didn't close any defenders down. Delph had to practically push him out the way to do just that, doing his job for him. Playing even 10 minutes last night, would have meant the world to Gordon. He would have given it everything. He would have chased after defenders and when the ball came to Niasse, he would not have surrendered it so meekly.

The other factor is, Gordon would have given the crowd an extra impetus. There's nothing like a local lad taking his first steps to get the crowd to roar encouragement, no matter who it is or how good he is. And I do mean roar, not polite encouragement.

But yes, Danny ultimately we lost that game, not just because of the subs, but due to errors.

Conor McCourt
313 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:58:31
Steve 309- I like how you didn't answer my questions on the A disgrace to the shirt thread when you took offence to me calling Carlo a former world class manager and would be intrigued to hear your thoughts on those questions I posed there. I also like how you focus on 10 years rather than the last 5.
Andrew Hight
314 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:05:03
2 nil up and replace an attacker for a defender. Makes a bit of sense to me. Attempt at “Game mgmt” as people keep banging on about. If we had won it would have been “Don Carlo” this and “In Carlo We Trust” or whatever BS people like to spout. Give him time, he'll make what looks like mistakes for a while until he's got the personnel and structure in place. Then if the problems persist, jump in with how you, the keyboard warriors, would have expertly handled the situation
Peter Neilson
315 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:09:59
Carlo now has to make sure the players focus on the 80+ minutes of the game when we played well, as good as we have been this season. He can't allow any wallowing in despair at the result. The last time such a comparable disappointment happened, after the Pickford howler at Anfield, we lost all focus.
Brent Stephens
316 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:10:30
A punch in the guts last night ("Well, I left at 2-0 and I'm sticking to that" - Mike Owen #298, cracker). BUT...
Moise Kean: that's what we bought him for. Thrilled me.
DCL: continues his upwards progression. He couldn't last year but can now.
Bernard: crackled and fizzed all the time he was on the pitch.
Holgate: developing a solid reliability.
And we're on a bit of a roll perhaps in accumulating points.

Let's see the season out, hope the above players continue their development, hope one or two (Gordon? Gibson? Branthwaite?) can move up from the U23s; let Carlo have a look at Gomes, Gbamin, Iwobi; shift the weaker parts of the squad; get in a few mega signings.

Onwards and upwards.

And my apology to anybody I might have offended last night. We were all angry about that ending.

Simon Smith
317 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:10:54
I still can't get over last nights result. That's gonna hurt for a long time.
Everton are lucky they have any supporters left with how we get treated. Utter disgrace of a club!
I can see last night having a knock on effect now.
I expect relegation now! We fucking deserve it too.
Jason Lloyd
318 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:12:19
Phil 281, it wasn't me that said a good keeper gives you an extra 10 points.

Think it was Souness or Redknapp, one of the pundits.

Steve Ferns
320 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:20:46
Brent, you're one of the most mild mannered fans going, don't worry there. I think you must have deleted anything offensive you put, because I never saw it.

You've seen the u23s more than myself, particularly live, would you trust 19 year old Ellis Simms on the bench now? Or would you go with Walcott?

Peter Neilson
321 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:22:46
Mike (298) we listened to Radio Merseyside on the way home. Edited highlights included Ronny Goodlass summarising on a "2-0 win a great performance". I think everyone thought it was game over, understandable for spectators, not for the players.
Kim Vivian
322 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:22:53
Peter Neilsen - good point. That howler against the RS was such a massive kick in the balls that we were knock kneed for weeks. Last night was probably not such a painful hit but it hurt badly nonetheless. Let Carlo administer the necessary first aid, put it behind us, and get the lads up and running again for our next outing.
Paul Columb
324 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:31:36
Have cooled down a little and now feeling a little more objective. Last night was a fantastic performance for the most part and deserved the 3 points and then some. The Toon were abysmal, but we didn't let them play.

I was critical of CA following the Brighton game as I felt we escaped with the points despite of, not because of his substitutions. I believe the same of last night, although we didn't get the points we deserved.
Although some players were gassed (M Kean for one. he worked his arse off), we were bossing them prior to the subs and if any strategy was justified, to boss them more and bury a vital 3rd should have been front and center.

There's something that makes absolutely no sense to me still and that's the introduction of Niasse while Gordon remains on the bench. There must be a reason beyond CA's tactics for his use in this and the last game as Brands has been explicit at the AGM that he has no future at the club and I can't imagine CA rates him. If the goal was to get a player on the make a nuisance of himself and badger the Toon's defense, then why not Gordon who was buzzing after his lively last cameo and has a future with the club.
There's more to it with the use of Niasse. Contract related? Shop window if he manages something semi-special? Whatever the remit, let's shelve it. Contributed to dropping 3 points and collective morale.

We've suffered a recent run of managers who seemingly become 'locked in' to their tactics and let's hope this doesn't not become the case with a manger who has proven to be intelligent and flexible throughout his career. I can't help but put last night's dropped points at his doorstep, even after the dust has settled. Onwards.

Graeme Beresford
325 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:31:42
Steve Ferns... a local lad to give him a run. I.e Davies. God only knows what would of happened if Gordon would of came on and had the same performance as Davies.
Tony Gavin
326 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:36:55
Tom Davies:
107 Games
4 Goals
6 Assists

A contribution roughly every 11 games Slow, can't pass, can't tackle, an absolute liability, strolls through games. He's simply not good enough. Everybody is entitled to an opinion but 107 games in, he's not improved at all and had his chance so it's time to get shut.

Yaroslav Zavolovsky
327 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:57:42
A little moved away from yesterday's garbage. What I want to say. Until 90 minutes they played well. drove guests into the lawn. Then what happened has been happening for so many years. Typical Everton. But I think we are on the right track. With Silva, we lost a lot of time. And you should not expect something now. Before we play the season. And there we will see how they will clean the sost from ballast. BELIEVE in Everton. This is the only thing we have.
Ciarán McGlone
328 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:58:54
I cannot believe Schneiderlin comes out of that game with any credit.

Those who think he did should watch that game again.. watch what we does everytime he makes a pass... he stops, doesnt attempt to find space, or anything to accomodate receiving the ball back.. absolutely nothing, nada...In some instances he even hid behind an opposing player to make sure he didnt get it back.

What players do with the ball is only half of the story (especially when 90% of it is cautious, protect my stats, sidewards and backwards 10 yard passes)

The man is a grade A coward and a fraud of a footballer... and he is certainly fooling some of you.

Chris Leyland
329 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:00:47
Graeme 295 - I get mad at refs for the added time too but then I thought about it and the announcement is that “the 4th official has indicated that there will be a minimum of x minutes of added time” as the board goes up showing that number. I think the key is “minimum” the board only shows a whole number and not seconds too. Therefore, last night 4 minutes went up but that could mean that there is anything between exactly 4 minutes and 4 mins and 59 seconds But it doesn't mean exactly 4 minutes.

The key is for the players to concentrate and play until the final whistle blows something they failed to do. There was no excuse for what happened last night and it certainly wasn't the fault of the referee and the amount of added time.

Don Alexander
330 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:04:33
Darren (#251), to me FF is the crucible where a little gold should occasionally be churned out, but it's not happening, with the same coaches more or less ever-present through four or five successive managers. I think there's a link there.

And you positing that I only ever have a go at ex-players is a bit silly isn't it? You and I are, with more than a few others, lambasting Kenwright for his endless tomfoolery and worse, you know, the guy who's employed all the managers you lambast and the coaches in my sights.

Steve Ferns
331 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:17:24
Ciaran, I thought Schneiderlin played well last night. He finally showcased his long passing ability, as we have not seen it for some time. I thought he and Delph were combining well and taking it in turns to sit and to attack. I thought he moved around well. I thought they looked a real partnership as they seemed to be close together and more importantly, the pair looked in control. There was enough good play from Schneiderlin for someone to make a YouTube highlight reel and get it sent out to prospective clubs in the hopes of moving him on in the summer.

Morgan has one more season left after this. Let's hope he can be persuaded to take a wage cut to get a new club on the basis that he needs to think about the next 5 years (he's only 30) and not the next 12 months (after the summer).

chris williams
332 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:18:00

You're right about it being a minimum time, but as far as I know, a goal being scored or a substitution being made, each adds 30 seconds minimum to the the added time. It's where the added time comes from in the main. So a goal scored in added time would add 30 seconds minimum to the added time.

Everton came unstuck a few years against Chelsea when they scored against Chelsea in added time, Barkley I think. They were deemed to have over celebrated, which resulted in Chelsea, Terry, scoring in the 97th minute of 5minutes of added time.

Brian Wilkinson
333 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:22:26
Have to disagree Ciaran, I thought Schnids was one of our better players last night.
Brent Stephens
334 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:22:47
Ciaran #328 "...watch what [Schneids] does everytime he makes a pass... he stops, doesnt attempt to find space, or anything to accomodate receiving the ball back.. absolutely nothing, nada...In some instances he even hid behind an opposing player to make sure he didnt get it back".

Exactly what I said to the guy next to me last night, and we've said this before. He'll argue no doubt that he's covering space. There's only one space I'd like to see him in - NASA might be able to help.

Brent Stephens
335 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:29:59
Steve #320 "You've seen the u23s more than myself, particularly live, would you trust 19 year old Ellis Simms on the bench now? Or would you go with Walcott?"

Steve, God I wish I had a crystal ball. What I do know is that, although Walcott, in fairness, has some good "moments", every time I see a U23 player step up I get a thrill of anticipation and hope (not just hope for us but for the lad himself). Simms has developed well this season IMHO. Yes he could step up, no he couldn't. God I wish I knew. The thing is he can be tried at the end of a game, when and if we're a few up (because we never lose a lead of a couple of goals right at the end!) and he'd be upfront where any error can't be directly punished.

Can't wait to see Branthwaite in a run of U23 games. This Friday and next Monday all get your arses to the Southport Superdrome to see the U23s.

Brian Wilkinson
336 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:31:36
You know who I feel sorry for more than anyone else.

Our younger generation of Evertonians having to put up with nothing for 25 years.

We the older generation are gut wrenched as well, we have had our fair share of let downs, but also seen some great Everton teams.

I really hope Carlo lands some success for you to enjoy because you deserve a medal spending a life time of nothing at our Club.

So gutted as I am from last night, I still have the memories stored of standing on the Gwladys Street and watching some of the greatest players we had playing in the a Blue Jersey.

So for you younger generation, my heart goes out to you, I really hope we land some Silverwere, not just for every Evertonians but for you guy as well.

Keep the faith.

Graeme Beresford
337 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:32:33
Morgan was one of the best on the pitch last night. Dominate the midfield and had one of his better performances. Still needs to learn to tackle but he won't be able to do that now cos that time has come and gone.

Still miffed at the injury time. 4 minutes is fine but to allow them one more attack is what haunts me. Seems to actually to us quite a lot when you think about it.

Tom Bowers
338 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:36:47
The bottom line is and has always been so far this season is that a part of this squad just isn't good enough for the Prem. and Carlo must know that by now and after another ridiculous result following on the Analfield cup game.

They could have been in 8th. position this morning, not that is really something to gloat about given the mediocrity of the Prem. this season but as usual Everton blow the opportunity anyway.

Who gets the chop from this squad is a big topic for discussion but as I keep mentioning, the team lack a solid leader in the Peter Reid mold. What happened late in yesterday's game was the perfect example of a lack of concentration and discipline when it was really necessary.
Carlo's substitutions where also weird and did't help at all.

These days there can be so much time added on at the end of the game that these professionals must know a game is never over until that final whistle goes.

Remember the RS game last season at Analfield when they blew it in the 96th. minute. and they still haven't learnt from that.

Steve Ferns
339 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:36:57
Brent, I'd go to Haig Ave gladly, the early kick-offs just make it impossible to get there now.

On Simms, I thought first 5 games he looked out of his depth, then he found his feet, then he started scoring regularly, and he seems to grow every single game. For me, he's reached the point where he is too good for that level.

So, now Brands needs to ask himself the question, can I persuade Carlo Ancelotti to give him a go, and he'll need to start by getting involved in first team training. If not, would another 6 months of u23 football actually beneficial or would it be better to get him into League 1? (Note the Championship might be his level, but I'd want him to get games, to score goals and to get some confidence for 6 months, and then see where he's at in the summer, and if still short, then try himself in the Championship).

I think Simms has effectively completed his education, and now he needs to get some first team football.

Steve Ferns
340 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:41:28
Moise Kean interview in English (after the game) on the official site and another look at his goal. I didn't realise at the time how bad that touch was, he almost blew it! Link
Chris Leyland
341 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:41:33
Brian (336) agree entirely. I was lucky enough to be a teenager in the mid 80's but I watched the match last night with my 14 year old son. He has seen nothing in those 14 years in the way of success other than one solitary final. He goes to school where 90% of the other kids support the shite but he doggedly and loyalty supports us through thin and even thinner. I pray that he gets to see us win something sooner rather than later.
Andrew Dempsey
342 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:44:41
Don't get me wrong,
I don't think I can do a better job than Carlo.
I was calling for subs last night, around the 68 min mark, thought it needed freshening up a bit.

What I'm worried about, is that Carlo's subs sent a message out to the fans and players that this game was over and we just need to see it out. But there was 25 mins left!

He tried to preserve 2-0 instead of going for 3-0, that's my gripe. It was wide open for a hammering of Newcastle, and a confidence boost for everyone.
I don't think this game is an anomaly, I think it was a poorly managed last 25 mins, that led to certain players, who can be liabilities, making crucial errors.
He changed the backline, Coleman is not what he was, he put Davies on the left, why?

He also tried to close the game out at 1-0 against Brighton. If he doesn't learn from this, and keeps making these negative and disruptive and daft (Niasse) subs, then we'll all start pointing the finger towards him.

We played brilliantly for 70 odd mins, we should have won 4-0. I know ‘these things happen', but let's see how often they happen.
It's just plain complacency. Learn from it!
I'm on board with Carlo for the way we played in most of that game, I just think we're seeing his weak points very early on in his reign here.

Carlo's subs caused the complacency.
From that point on, the players have to take blame too, BUT, they're not a supremely confident side who can see games out professionally. They need to build confidence. Score more goals.
I'm frustrated and angry because we've got a 10 day break now, we could have kept going and scored more and run ourselves into the ground, and left the pitch feeling good.

Ancelotti created the anxiety of trying to ‘see the game out', he didn't have to do that.
The way the players responded to those tactical changes, yes, it was amateur.
This has upset me more than the RS game, only because I was so excited when Kean scored. FFS

Kieran Kinsella
343 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:02:45
Carlo is a total changer. The only reason he's had success is because his teams have scored more and conceded less than his opponents. Complete con artist
Jamie Crowley
344 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:02:50
Cracking through posts, and had to shout out to Mark Murphy @269.

That's a great should about Nick Pope. That kid is a ridiculously solid keeper. If there was anyway to swap dollars by offloading Jordan and bringing in "The" Pope, I'd jump at it.

Quality keeper, level head, shot stopper, commands his area, all of it. Not as acrobatic as the keepers that grab headlines, but goodness he's fantastic. I know, I've seen a fair number of Burnley games.

Good shout.

Christy Ring
345 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:13:01
Why is Niasse still in the squad, when he refused to go out on loan, does that not tell you, he has no desire to play, and doesn't give a shit about football, just happy to pick up 60k a week. Some of the comments here, praising Schneiderlin and Delph's performance last night, they were average, which shows how poor they were previous, that's all, there not leaders and offer no attacking threat whatsoever. We have a little over a week to bring in a midfielder, with a bit of drive and ambition.
Joe Bibb
346 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:15:50
'Mary' Pickford & 'Bette' Davies sadly they are not the Stars they think they are.
Steve Ferns
347 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:20:02
Christy, you are correct that the praise (if you can really call it that) of Schniederlin shows how poor he has been. He played well, but no much better than you would have expected him to, every single game, when he first started playing for us. That was the level and performance I expected from him. So, yeah, says a lot about him when you're surprised he can do what we should expect from him for the transfer fee and the wages, or when he starts knocking passes 50 yards across the pitch that are easily received and controlled.

We do need a central midfielder to improve, but the question is, do we really it need it now, or does it make more sense financially to wait and see where we are at in the summer. The reason for waiting is threefold:
1. The recovery of Gomes
2. The recovery of Gbamin
3. That FFP will have relaxed a little to allow us more money to sign better quality and there will be a better selection of midfielders to choose from.

In other words, do we go to Lidl now and spend what's left of our rainy day fund, or do we wait until after payday and go to Waitrose?

Tony Twist
348 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:20:45
It is just typical Everton. Carlo magnifico, my arse. He has done nothing yet, apart from turn up. That's not to say he won't do good things in the future but as with all managers they have their traits. Lets hope Ancelotti is kidding when he says its just one of those things because it ain't. Professional, well organised and coached teams don't allow a two goal lead to be squandered with a minute of added time to go in a match. Keane should have come on, with Gordon and Holgate moved into centre midfield. How difficult is that Carlo? Learn and learn faster please, first Analfield then crazy subs last home match that almost lost us the win and now this embarassment. Get a grip.
Kieran Kinsella
349 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:21:35
Christy 345

Agreed. The other thing is (as with Erickson at Spurs -- allegedly), players near the end of their deal aren't going to bust their ass and risk injury knowing they are out of work in a few months.

Jamie Crowley
350 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:39:39
Steve @347 -

Wait. Wait until summer, Carlo sees what he's got, make an astute and impactful signing.

Bring in someone in now, for me, doesn't make sense. We really need to trim more deadwood this summer if possible, and get our financial house in order, while the kids grow into players or real quality.

Graeme Beresford
351 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:48:15
Some people's comments on here are terrible. People slagging the manager off already. Bet you gave Martinez, Koeman and Silva more weeks before you started calling them a fraud etc. Joke of a fan base at times.
Len Hawkins
352 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:48:39
I don't think Carlo told Davies, who can't run forward without giving the ball away, to run towards our goal area and try and be something he never will be Skilful without giving the ball away. Then to add insult to injury give them a free kick in our own half so every barcode and his dog could flood the area for a last gasp winner.
Jamie Crowley
353 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:49:53
I thought of something with Tom Davies. He's like raising a son.

When your son is young, you attempt to provide every opportunity for them to succeed, and nurture their talents. We've done that with Tom.

Around 13 to 14 years of age, you start hammering home the "responsibility lesson." You need to ween them off of providing for them, so they can begin to take personal responsibility for their actions. Lines like, "I'm not punishing you, you, by your actions, have chosen to be punished." Ya, know, stuff like that. The introduction to manhood as it were. We've done that with Tom the last two years, in a footballing sense. Forgiven his mistakes, knowing he's going to make them, and then suggesting he needs to take responsibility for his actions.

Finally, your son around the age of 16 or so, has the cord cut. It's your life, make your own decisions, I've taught you what to do, now go do it. Own up to your decisions and live with the consequences of your actions, good or bad.

That is where we are at with Tom Davies, for me. The ball is entirely in his court. It's time to cut the cord. You either start making good, intelligent, solid decisions, or you'll need to take responsibility and live with the consequences of your actions.

Good luck Tom, I'll be rootin' for ya.

Kieran Kinsella
354 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:49:57
Steve 347/Jamie 350

I see no point investing now. There's every likelihood the "big six" will take the Euro spots albeit via winning cups in the cases of Spurs/Arsenal/Utd. Leicester are out of reach. Sheff Utd and Wolves also look out of reach however bizarre that sounds. So I see little point spending a lot of money when the upside is maybe 5 million more based on finishing say 8th instead of 10th. Also when have we ever had an immediate and lasting impact from a January signing? Donovan was OK but came and went in 2 months. Arteta did well eventually but was on the bench when he first arrived so it wasn't instant gratification. Then we've had the likes of Walcott, Tosun, Beattie. It's not a pretty story.

Per Stumo
355 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:50:17
Graeme @337, Brian @333 and Steve @331: Completely agree. Watching it on television I made a point to keep an extra eye on Schneiderlin this time around and he hardly put a foot wrong. Completely bossed the midfield, spraying passes left and right, most of them forward, and keeping possession. In fact, I can only recall him losing the ball once (after a bad pass from Sidibe), and he managed to half-clear that forward. His long balls were very good and relieved pressure when needed, and a couple of times he got close to putting Walcott through. No, tackling is not his strong suit and probably never will be, but he did put in a few this time including one crunching one that I half expected him to get a yellow for. In fact, FBREF.COM has him as our second best tackler of the match with 4 tackles won. Digne had 6. However, Schneiderlin also had 3 interceptions, which makes him our top interceptor of the match alongside Sidibe. For reference, Delph and Holgate had two each.

Still pissed off about us collapsing. I had a feeling they would score the second Digne hesitated to clear the ball after receiving that backpass from Davies. He should have just belted that as far up the pitch as he could get it. So aggrevating!

Kieran Kinsella
356 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:56:49
Per 335

My issue with Schneid is the same as my issue with Davies, Gomez, Sig. All of them have the odd game where they play well but all of them have more games when they're either anonymous or terrible. As a group they're not consistent enough if we want to be more than a mid table team.

Kevin Prytherch
357 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:05:32
Steve 347 - there was a recent article highlighting the amount of produce that was produced for Lidl and Waitrose that came off the same conveyor belts at the same factories - but were priced totally different.

Point being - we've tried shopping at Waitrose (overpaid for average products), and we've been successful in the past shopping at Lidl (bargains for the same, if not better, products).

It's time we were more savvy in general in the transfer market, shop for the Lidl products and only go to Waitrose when we really need to.

Phil Lewis
358 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:09:55
Once Pickford cocks up at International level, as he regularly does for us, his transfer value will plummet! Get shut now while we can get a decent fee and invest it in the team building kitty.
Dave Abrahams
359 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:12:30
Per Stumo (355), if you had been in the ground, every time Schneiderlin made a pass, that was it, job done, never made any attempt to stay involved, stood still, ambles back, never breaks sweat, does as little as possible, but he was better than usual, but he can do a lot more, but doesn't attempt to.
Andrew Dempsey
360 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:21:30
Kieran #343

We'll see, if he's a ‘total changer'.
A euro to uk adapter? We'll see.
Some of the comments on here slagging off the manager. Disgraceful.
He's on £11m a year and he's doing his best, so leave him alone.

Kieran Kinsella
361 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:26:29

I'm not saying he's perfect or infallible. I am just weary of every manager we have going from "messiah" to "sack him" in about 5 games. There is an element of "it happens" in football. When Moyes was here, we came back and drew 4-4 with Utd. Fergie has won a ton of trophies by then so no one questioned his credentials.

Steve Shave
362 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:27:01
Ciaran you are being unnecessarily harsh on Schneiderlin there. I am a big critic of his, I do think he is guilty of hiding, he is guilty of lacking in the moving forward department. However, last night he pushed the ball around well and made a number of strong challenges. I am not one for busting someone's balls because I always have, overall in his time in an Everton shirt yes. last night he deserves praise and credit. I agree with Steve, he and Delph worked well together.
Mike Gaynes
363 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:28:53
Steve #282, I was referring to his footballing IQ, not his natural intelligence, and should have explicitly said so.

And also Steve at #347, this was Schneiderlin's best performance since the spring of 2017 -- and you are correct that this is as much an indictment as a compliment. Having seen again what he is capable of only increases the frustration that he hasn't been playing like this all along. Where has it been for the past three years?

Jamie #344, some here have mentioned Pickford's save percentage as one of the lowest in the league. So is Pope's. Yes, he commands well in the air, but he gets down to low shots like a tree falling. There's a reason why all the big-club-transfer buzz that surrounded him several years ago has faded away. If the desired new standard for Everton signings is "is he a top 4 player?", the answer on Pope is no.

Steve Shave
364 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:29:07
Pickford has done well for England, lets hope he has a good Euro's and we get a good fee for him. Butland/Pope decent replacements for less than half the price.
Kieran Kinsella
365 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:36:54
Funny thing about Pickford, Butland and goalies these days is how quickly they go from brilliant to circus clowns. Back in my day, once a goalie was half decent he remained so. The only change was that his moustache got bushier, his mullet more defined and his stomach larger. You knew you could count on him for a good 20 years.
Brian Wilkinson
366 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:38:33
Carlo knows the players did play some good football, but if we are not already deflated, why oh why bring up Instanbul again, talk about a double kick below the belt.
Andrew Dempsey
367 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:52:15
Another thing about Keepers.
I think every club has a large section of their fans who think their Keeper is a liability.
It's such a precarious, fickle game, football.
Look at me and Ancelotti, I'll be in love if he beats them at Goodison in March.
If he doesn't though (inflict the RS's only defeat of the season) then he should be sacked instantly.

If we get another Goalie, we'll scrutinise and analyse and find his flaws pretty quickly, and there'll be another more solid, reliable, taller, less daft, mysterious Keeper out there (who we don't watch play 90 mins football ever) who we'll all be pining over like Nick Pope.
It'd be Nick Poop on TW inside 18 months at Everton.

Per Stumo
368 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:55:51
Kieran @356, that I can agree with. The last midfielder we've had that consistently had good games seems to be Gueye, though Bernard is showing some promise lately. To be fair, our defense is not so much better although Holgate has certainly come in and showed himself to be our most solid stopper. I

Dave @359, as much as I would have loved to be at game, I'd argue that the vantage point of multiple TV cameras and close-ups offer a much better overall view of the pitch. On the TV, Schneiderlin moved around quite well I thought. No, he doesn't run around with the energy of Gueye or even McCarthy, but he's never been that type of player so I don't expect that from him. In fact, I don't seem him as a box-to-box ball-winning type of player at all, in my eyes he's more of a supporting type holding midfielder. A bit of a quarterback type if you like.

On a different note, I just saw the school children's drawings of the Everton players. Pickford ROFL!!

Christy Ring
369 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:56:15
Steve@347, I agree we shouldn't spend big money now, with Gomes and Gbamin on the way back. But it'll be at least 4/6 weeks for them to get match fit. What's wrong with trying to bring in someone like Nzonzi, on loan, who's on loan at Galatasaray, and no future at Roma, a big improvement on Delph / Schneiderlin, and who'd come very cheap in the summer.
David Pearl
370 Posted 22/01/2020 at 16:46:25
I've read a few comments on Schneiderlin who l regularly defend. All I can add is that he wasn't just sat in the pocket between the centre backs as his usual instruction and had more freedom to roam next to Delph, and the same when he was paired with Siggy v Chelsea when he also had a better game. At the other place he was as poor as the rest of them. I'd much prefer him than Davies, lm sorry but Tom is all over the place trying to do his Gana impression and leaves our midfield too open. Best game he's had for us last night... and some cracking passes, they were even forwards!

Confidence runs through a player and a team and they can achieve a lot. If it doesn't then they achieve very little. I think we are getting much better over the last few weeks and will continue to. What happened last night... answers on a postcard please.

John McFarlane Snr
371 Posted 22/01/2020 at 16:48:15
Hi all, my view on football is quite simplistic, I believe that every footballer [from Lionel Messi to Sunday League level] makes mistakes, the better players making fewer mistakes.

I haven't read every post, but certain players are being blamed for last night's defeat as though they were deliberately intent on presenting Newcastle with their goal-scoring efforts. From my seat in the Park End, it was difficult to see exactly what happened, I will have a better take on it after I watch 'Match of the Day' this evening.

I believe that there were a number of reasons that contributed to the defeat and the loss of two points, the mistakes that I have alluded to, plus the substitutions of two of the most influential players, Kean and Bernard, who, with the assistance of Calvert Lewin, led the Newcastle defence a merry dance.

I reach this decision with the benefit of hindsight, although I was surprised at the time, but apparently like Carlo Ancelotti, I did not anticipate the effect the substitutions would have. I feel that some have condensed last night's game into the additional time, ignoring the performance of most of the previous 90 minutes.

I also find it difficult to believe that some supporters with years of experience, do not appreciate that anything can happen in a game of football. That's the 'Nature of the Beast'. Some have expressed anger, embarrassment, and, in some cases, the 'shame' of being an Evertonian. I have long since left the anger phase, and have never been embarrassed or ashamed, in fact approaching the age of 82, I retain my pride in being an Evertonian. My emotion now goes no further than extreme disappointment, we as football supporters have no option but to accept what the 'Football Gods' bestow on us.

Tony Hill
372 Posted 22/01/2020 at 16:52:34
Len @352, Davies did, of course, make a forward run which ended in a free kick on the edge of their box and which Digne wasted.
Don Alexander
373 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:04:18
Most of us TWers are too passionate for their own good methinks. The number of times folk have described last night's draw as "a defeat" is weird! Passion does that to people I guess. Hey-ho.
Gerry Quinn
374 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:08:15
On what remains an incredibly fantastic record .

433 games 383-goals 60 league goals in one season 37-hat-tricks 2-league-titles 1-fa-cup William Ralph “Dixie” Dean the greatest ever Everton player was born on this day in 1907

Believe it or not even Shearer had no idea whatsoever of that amount of hat-tricks - embarrassingly he thought his own 11 was the most!!!!!!! Aguero now has 12 - LONG, LONG WAY TO GO

Kieran Kinsella
375 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:12:33
John McFarlane

You've been around twice as long as me but I've also thankfully passed the anger stage. It is football. Luckily it was a fairly meaningless game. We will get over it just as Munich did when they thought they'd won the European cup and two minutes later were losers.

Rob Halligan
376 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:36:13
Kieran, I guess it's a rare occurrence to concede two goals in added on time, but it's something we've done to other teams twice, as far as I know. We did it to spurs at Goodison, when we were losing 1-0 going into added on time, to win 2-1, and who can forget when we went into added on time at home to Manchester United losing 3-1 and scored twice to draw 3-3.
Frank Crewe
377 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:38:37
If we had won 2-0 this thread would have been almost entirely different and we would have been lauding a good win instead of slagging off this or that player.
Best to just take the positives.
Moise Kean only 19 scored his first goal. Hopefully a lot more to come.
DCL only 22 scored once again and a cool finish as well.
Mason Holgate only 23 played really well again.
Iwobi is only 23. Richarlison is only 22, Mina 25, Pickford 25, Gbamin 24. I would mention Davies but I don't think he has a future at Everton. The fact we have the nucleus of a good young side. No doubt about it we need additions but I think we're on the right road. Put the last two minutes to one side and we played well. Just have to cut out the errors and that includes the manager. Stop taking off forwards for defenders and crap like Niasse. I'd sooner see a youngster on than him. It just gives the initiative to the opposition.
Mick Davies
378 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:53:22
Re: Pickford. If Bournemouth go down, we could do a lot worse than grabbing young Ramsdale, looks like a real prospect
Brent Stephens
379 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:56:01
Kevin #357 "It's time we were more savvy in general in the transfer market, shop for the Lidl products and only go to Waitrose when we really need to".

Steven Fry once said (maybe not original - was it Liverpool's own George Melly?) "I like Sainsbury's - it keeps the riff raff out of Waitrose".

Roger Helm
380 Posted 22/01/2020 at 18:09:45
I have calmed down a bit but I still needed a Nytol and a large vodka to get to sleep last night. It was very annoying but the games these days are pretty meaningless as relegation and Europe are very unlikely.

I think we have to have patience and see what CA can do in the market and also with our players - DCL and Schneiderlein show signs of improvement for example.

I agree cashing in on Pickford makes sense while he is England's goalie and getting in someone more stable and reliable. Tom Davies I think doesn't have the physical or mental attributes to play at this level. Shame, really.

Tony Abrahams
381 Posted 22/01/2020 at 18:18:20
That's right Don, at least we got a point last night mate, which is more than we would have got for a defeat or your “pointless point” I suppose!
Phil Malone Jnr
382 Posted 22/01/2020 at 18:45:44
John G Davies
383 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:08:27
In my opinion Tom Davies should go out on loan in this window.
And that comes from someone who has continually backed him to the hilt.

He was involved in making basic mistakes for their two goals.

First goal. He made a mistake trying to play out from the back, near his own corner flag. He exchanged passes with Digne but his final pass was on Digne right foot. The basic mistake was if he played it on his left foot the ball would have been played where it should go, up the line. Result: Corner and goal.

Second goal. He tries to take the man on by knocking it past him and out pacing the defender. Defender deals with him easily by out strengthing him and by superior pace.

Defender can only go back to the keeper. Tom jumps on his back, giving the free kick away. When the free kick comes into the box Tom, who you would think would want to rectify his mistake, jumped under the ball. Result: goal.

I reckon it would be good for Tom to have the rest of the season out on loan.

Phil Malone Jnr
384 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:25:23
I understand everyone feeling like it's a loss. We played very well, Bernard is the best footballer we've had in ages. Even DCL showed he has a left foot. I just wish we could of capped it with 3 points
Darren Hind
385 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:28:33
I don't see a single post claiming Davies should be in the team because he is a blue. Although I see plenty of straw man arguments from people refuting the claim that..err doesnt appear to have been actually made. . I was going to say, you couldnt make this stuff up...but clearly you can

Last night;

Davies gave a ball to Digne who fucked it up Royally and conceded a corner - Lets blame Davies.

Davies first contribution was a surging run which resulted in a free kick outside the box. Once again Digne Royally fucked it up - Lets blame Davies.

Davies gives away a free kick near the half way line. Its central which makes it quite possibly the easiest free kick to defend against. We've got 11 men back who all show zero desire - Lets blame Davies

The ball is in the air so long you could have strolled down from the top balcony and still had time to clear it, but none of the eleven we had plonked in and around our area managed it - Lets blame Davies.

Ancelotti has the team so riddled with uncertainty after reintroducing the cursed Zonal Marking. Every fucker knew where the ball was going to end up before the corner was taken - Lets blame Davies.

Ancelotti had already insulted the intelligence of all present by bring on a the least talented footballer the premiership has ever seen. Predictably he surrenders possession and the initiative by miscontrolling every fucking pass - Lets blame Davies.

Davies's critics claim he is lower league standard who should never wear the Everton shirt again, Ancelotti still put him on - Lets blame Davies

The names and abuse directed at this TWENTY ONE year having to learn his trade surrounded by ridiculously paid, cowardly, non contributing Gobshites makes me deeply ashamed of this club. What a fucking fan base we have

When Holgate tried bucking the trend by refusing to be a light house and insisting on playing football like it should be played. On the deck. These experts murdered him

When DCL had to play left and right and then up front on his own for two years while expensive, guileless, liberty taking, fuckwits stood thirty yards behind him knocking "get-after-that" hoofs into the corners and expecting.
him to do all their graft - These experts murdered him

Now its Toms turn. Sure he sometimes looses the ball, but he is surrounded by cowards whose sole purpose is to protect their passing stats, his determination to be positive and get forward is a breath of fresh air. As the junior in the team, he should be helped by seniors Like Siggy and slidingin, but he isn't They hide from him. . They fucking hide from him. Just as they hide from each other
I look forward to the day when Tom realises his potential. when, like the other two, he can consider himself established,

I would dearly love to see Tom, Mason and DCL stand in the center circle and raise a finger each to these incredibly poor judges. One beautiful poetic "what-the-fuck-do-you-know ?" three fingered Gesture

John McFarlane Snr
386 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:53:39
Hi Kieran [375] you're obviously a quick learner, this will stand you in good stead, for there is no doubt that there will be times when your resolve will be tested. If surrendering two points to Newcastle United is the worst thing to happen to you this year, then you will have had a good year.

I have just been informed that a friend of mine, an ex team-mate from our footballing days of 50 years ago. has passed away. A gentleman and fellow Evertonian, he will be greatly missed by all who knew him, it's at times like this that we should remember that football although a part of our lives, is [exactly that] a part of our lives.

Neal Kernohan
387 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:54:20
What a cruel game football is. My Northern Ireland team lost the County Antrim Shield at Windsor Park after conceding TWO goals in the 95th and 96th minutes only to watch Everton to do the same at the same time! Four goals in stoppage time lost EFC the match and BALLYMENA UNITED THE CUP FINAL!
Mike Gaynes
388 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:02:44
Darren #385:

You skip very lightly over Davies giving away the free kick -- a silly, pointless foul when he wasn't even challenging for the ball, just a pettish bump, and the only way Newcastle could possibly have gotten the ball down the pitch and earned a clear chance before the clock ran out. And an utterly needless exposure of our longtime weakness defending set pieces. If he just stops in his tracks, the game is over.

And of the "11 men back" who "could have strolled down from the top balcony and still had time to clear it", the closest of all, the one who didn't react immediately because he was busy pointing at people, the one who stumbled back and jumped and missed the ball completely, was Davies.

So yes, this "TWENTY ONE year" old veteran of well over 100 Prem, domestic cup and Europa appearances, considered mature and professional enough to wear the captain's armband on multiple occasions, fully deserves every word of blame he is getting. Not him alone, certainly (Carlo/Picks/Digne), but he's at the top of the list, and nobody else is a close second.

And yes, it's Ancelotti who sent him on, but that's kind of a circular argument -- are you saying Ancelotti made a mistake subbing him in because he's not good enough, or because the situation was wrong for him, or because somebody else should have gone on instead? Are Davies' mistakes Davies' fault, or are they Carlo's responsibility because he put him out there? Either way, both arguments seem to be saying the same thing about Davies: Not Good Enough.

Mike Gaynes
389 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:10:55
John Sr., condolences on the passing of your friend.
Brent Stephens
390 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:16:48
Mike #388 a powerful last para. It's not all down to Davies but let's at least be honest in recognising his walk-on part in this.
Mike Gaynes
391 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:24:32
Brent, the thing is this kills me. Davies gave me the thrill of a lifetime when he scored 32 seconds into the first game I ever saw at Goodison. I cried, literally sobbed right there in the Park End stand. Then I actually met him for a few seconds the following week. Super-nice kid, only 18 then.

And ever since then I have agonized watching him work so hard and leave everything on the pitch and just... not... get... better. And I've tried so hard not to get frustrated seeing him make the same mistakes again and again. I'd have waved him off a year ago, but he was Tom Davies, the guy who scored "my" goal.

Yesterday was it for me. I just can't bend that far anymore. Maybe John G is right and a loan would salvage the player, but I'm not optimistic that will happen.

Brent Stephens
392 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:34:01
Mike I think we all shared that ecstasy with Davies' first goal. And the expectation of a possibly stellar future. He's one of our own. He's seems a great kid. When he wasn't even on the bench at an away game (West Brom I think) but there by the dugout in the warm up, I asked for his autograph and found my pen was bust. He went away and came back with a pen and signed. Small act but generous and thoughtful.
Peter Warren
393 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:43:51
Darren 385# enjoyed that post. A lot of truth in what you say. For me I just view Davies as a young talent, hopefully he will make it and I see enough in him to think he will. I agree entirely that senior players should be helping him out. I thought Delph was gutless from the kick off.

I get where you come from about Blues complaining about young talents who cone through academy or we pick up for a pittance. Undoubtedly some truth but I think you over egg it and I think people slag off anybody who they don't think good enough, perhaps many should give more slack to youngsters which as a fan base as a whole I don't think we do. I actually thinks it borne of frustration because we're more desperate for these people to do well than the other players who are simply mercenaries - even Mike Gaynes I can see so annoyed because as he says, he attended a game and he made him cry (presumably Man City game) / its all frustration.

For me, I'm v hard on Pickford / I'm 40 and only remember one great player for us being Big Nev who was and is my idol so I'm always hard on others that follow him! My son's only 10 and plays in goal and in hard on him already! I should lay off Pickford a bit who is young also.

In terms of yesterday, I must admit Davies did my head in a bit / just frustrated at him / I think that's a natural reaction the way the game unfolded. I do agree completely OTT to write him off / 5 or so managers (many without a clue) - but he's only 21 clearly talented, clearly loves the club and I've never seen him hide (unlike a lot of our shower)

As more senior poster mentioned above, only a game and we should all support the younger players in particular more and no doubt our experienced personnel in terms of players and management staff have been letting us down over the years more than our youngsters.

Best wishes to all Blues - hopefully things will get better!

Mike Connolly
394 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:52:51
You might see mason and DCL in the centre circle putting a finger up. it wont be Davies he not good enough. the way some go on about his age I'm beginning to think he must be Peter Pan hes been young for years
Martin Nicholls
395 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:28:23
Very different views being expressed on this thread than was the prevailing mood for 90+ minutes at Goodison last night. From where I sit in the Upper Gwladys, I heard no cries of derision as Ancellotti made each of his three subs. Indeed, I heard rousing choruses of the Ancellotti song as late as 90+ minutes. Fast forward 4 minutes in which individual mistakes by a number of players cost us two goals and almost to a man, ToffeeWebbers condemn him as being some sort of idiot. It seems that most on here see themselves as more knowledgeable and tactically aware than one of the most successful managers of all time. Bizarre.
Christy Ring
396 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:33:08
Why was Davies playing totally out of position, left of midfield? It didn't make sense
Mads Kamp
397 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:33:35
#Phil Malone 384
I agree. We played very well for 89 minutes which is what the players need to focus on.
Bernard very visible but Schneiderlin also had a (surprisingly) good game. Great positioning, passing and interceptions, I thought he commanded the midfield yesterday! I do not understand how any knowledgeable footballfan can think otherwise.
Kieran Kinsella
398 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:41:28
Stop with the "young Davies" nonsense folks. Mozart by aged 12 had written three operas. Edward Plantagenat King of England aged 14. Pele won the world cup aged 17. Martina Hingis won all her grand slams by aged 19. Kyoko Iwasaki Olympic gold medallist in swimming aged 14. Tom Davies 5 months short of his 22 birthday, earned a lot of money and was babied by grumpy old men on ToffeeWeb.
Ron Marr
399 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:50:50
Busby Babes won the league in 55/56 with an average age of 21. They won the league again in 56/57 with an average age of 22, and made the semi final of the European Cup. If you're good enough you're old enough.
Jerome Shields
400 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:53:15

Condolences on the passing of your friend.

Kieran Kinsella
401 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:53:35
Martin Nicholls

" It seems that most on here see themselves as more knowledgeable and tactically aware than one of the most successful managers of all time."

Reading comments on here about various managers always makes me think of Statler and Waldorf in The Muppet Show heckling Kermit. They can heckle but there's a reason he's down there and they're just in the audience.

Dan Parker
402 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:00:56
Haha Kieran, too right. I'm a grumpy old man today that's for sure. Could be worse, Moyes!! 4-1 lol
Rob Halligan
403 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:01:28
As it stands, we would have been 2 points off fifth place, with Burnley winning 2-0 at man Utd, and look in no danger of throwing it away, as United have been very poor. Still 3 minutes plus added time to go, so you never know!!
Ray Roche
404 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:06:36
Dan, an interesting stat from talkSport, Moyes has played top four teams away from home on fifty (50) occasions and been victorious once. Shameful for a “winner “!
Robert Tressell
405 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:06:39
Davies is in a group of excellent u-21 players getting games in the top flight. He's 8th in number of minutes played for that age group. Only rice and cantwell played more in comparable position. This is because he is a v good player. Not without weakness but v good and will get better. There will be other shit results between now and the end of the season. He will have a hand in those shit results (along with 10 others). He has also been a major part of getting us out of a mess and within a sniff of 6th.
Ray Roche
406 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:07:38
Well done Burnley.
Christy Ring
407 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:07:56
John @386 My deepest sympathy on the passing of your close friend
Dave Lynch
408 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:13:34
Well said Keiran.
It really does amaze me how some posters appear to, or think they know better than a top flight manager.

No one on here has ever managed at the top level and they never will TBH, the reason is, they don't possess the nouse or acumen to do so.

A bit like the majority of pundits on the telly, they point out all the faults of players and managers but have either failed at the job, or don't have the balls to go and take it on.

John McFarlane Snr
409 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:14:30
Hi Mike [389] and Jerome [400], thanks for your posts, I should think that most of us have had experiences of this nature, and at the time football doesn't seem to be so important. I will pass on your condolences to his family.
Dan Parker
410 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:16:00
That's some stat Ray! In Moise We Trust
John McFarlane Snr
411 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:29:14
Hi Christy [407] thank you for your post, I will pass your condolence on to his family, it's at times like this that football pales into insignificance.
Tony Abrahams
412 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:30:22
After tonight's results then last night's capitulation has just got a whole lot worse.
Mike Gaynes
413 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:41:10
What a performance by Burnley at OT.

Rendered those obnoxious fans silent.

Rob Halligan
414 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:43:43
Gut wrenching, Tony. We'd have been two points off fifth place, and eight off fourth. Top three is sorted, but 4th, 5th and 6th are deffo up for grabs. Realistically though, 4th will probably be out of our reach, but 5th and 6th are attainable.
Mike Gaynes
415 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:44:49
Love your optimism, Rob. I'm not as hopeful, but I'll go with your version all day long.
Rob Halligan
416 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:51:57
Mike I'm always optimistic, otherwise there's no point in going to the game. If we can replicate last nights game (bar the last 90 seconds of course) in the next few games, then there's no reason why we can't improve our league position.
Ernie Baywood
417 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:02:21
Sean Dyche tonight:

"Strong, fit and organised will never go out of fashion"

He's right you know.

Roger Helm
418 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:28:56
Lot of posts about Tom Davies. As far as I can see what he does is receive the ball in midfield and pass it on, often in a forwards direction. But he doesn't score goals, make assists or dribbles or key passes, or win tackles and headers or make interceptions.

He is not fast or strong or athletic and for a player who has played 100+ games, he tends to make bad decisions at important times. Probably not relevant, but he looks sloppy with his socks rolled down.

Perhaps ok as a squad player but not really good enough to start at this level, I think.

Darren Hind
419 Posted 23/01/2020 at 05:13:29
Mike I do not skip lightly over the free kick. I very clearly mention it.

You on the other hand have made a complete meal of it. Daft foul ? well yes, but I cant assure you that wasnt the reason we conceded.
Be very certain if he didnt make that challenge the first thing Newcastle would have done when they got it would have been to launch it anyway.

We didnt concede because of a daft foul near the half way line. We conceded because as a collective we have a pathetic inability to defend them. Every alehouse team in Liverpool could do better than that.
Every team commits fouls. and every single defensive players in our squad has committed fouls in a worse position than that. Mina, Digne and Schnieiderlin seem to be making a living out of it..

Instead of lambasting the short guy why are you not screaming at one of the taller guys for not moving their feet and dealing with that ball. It wass in the air that long anyone of them could have done it,

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect we may not see Tom Davies for a while and all those who groaned when Schneirderlin was named ahead of him will be groaning on a regular basis. Do you think that will solve the problem ?

Its not the fact that TD is local which is making me so pissed at the hysterical outrage. Its the sheer stupidity of it. The embarrassing lack of judgement.

I don't care if people accuse me of being a know all. I'm telling you right now, that we will continue to concede in this way with or without Tom Davies.
We have 80m quids worth of defenders, playing for one of the highest earning managers in the history of the game and yet next time we concede a free kick or a corner, every Evertonian will be watching through his fingers. THAT is the problem.

Instead of hanging the twenty one year old out to dry, why are'nt you berating the experienced pro's for defending every dead ball situation on their heels ? Why are you telling everyone that Yerry Mina is the next greatest thing when every time he defends a free kick, he demonstrates the lateral movement of a fucking lighthouse ?
Why are you screaming that Tom Davies is the moron when when we have a manager persevering with a system which relies on a group of players who defend corners with all the desire and Movement of the the slugs on our patio ?

Tom Davies is twenty one. I dont care who hates that being brought up, .its an inescapable fact. I do know that the fuckwitted managers who have stunted his development, by asking him to play here, there and everywhere, have failed on one score They havent manage to make him Twenty two.

He will never be top, international, class. but basic logic would suggest that anybody who has made over one hundred premier league appearances by the time he is TWENTY ONE has a very good chance of making a living in this league. He is an asset who will be worth millions... Yet we have hoards of fans screaming for the club to get rid after a couple of mistakes.

And TOM DAVIES is the moron ?????

Paul Johnson
420 Posted 23/01/2020 at 06:19:50
Darren you've backed yourself into a corner here mate. You simply cannot deny that Tom is going backwards. Does he have what it takes to be a major premier league star? Not on current form. Discounting the stray pass and free kick I watched Tom and I know we were playing him out left but his basic positional stance and willingness to track back was awful. And I use your point “anybody who has played over one hundred premier league games” should understand what position he needs to take up and that you have to compete and work hard to be successful.

If as a team we want to move to the next level then Tom is not the answer. Neither is Schniederlin or Delph but give me the choice on current form then Tom is not in the top 3 for a centre midfield spot. My opinion has nothing to do with Tom being “one of our own” but on pure ability.

i do not wish ill of him but he frustrates the shit out of me. He showed so much promise but unfortunately he looks to me at the moment that he is not going to fulfil that promise.

David Thomas
421 Posted 23/01/2020 at 07:28:10
The mistakes Davies made against Newcastle were not down to being played out of position they were just basic footballing mistakes by a naive limited footballer exactly like his mistake at Leicester was earlier in the season.

I can't imagine anyone goes to the match intending to slag a player off just for the sake of it but I think the common consensus seems to be that Davies is willing but limited.

Will we concede goals when Davies is not in the team, yes we most likely will but that's not a reason to blindly say he wasn't a main factor for why we didn't pick 3 points up on Tuesday night.

Ian Jones
422 Posted 23/01/2020 at 07:51:02
I think Justin Doone's comments @ 198 generally sum up the defending for the second goal.

'Blaming Davies for missing a header that was 4ft above his and Holgates head is ridiculous. Digne was not in position. Holgate didn't stay marking his man...'

I will add that whilst it was poor defending all round, Holgate may have been more interested in pushing one of the Newcastle players in the back rather than concentrating on marking the guy coming round the back....which probably would have led to a penalty.

Sam Hoare
423 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:19:15
Darren@419 I always admire your defense of the youngsters and often I am right beside you but I think on this one you're being a little generous to Davies.

The free kick is pivotal. Yes, Newcastle would have launched it anyway but not with ten players able to pick their positions in our box. There was less than a minute on the clock and giving away that free kick there was horrendous game management. As was Delph booting it up the pitch; surely we could have passed it around and back to Pickford to perform the same hoof and soak up another 10-20 seconds. Panic had set in.

As for the header; the only other player who is near it is Holgate who could have done more but Davies looks like he has it and is relatively uncontested; until it goes over him. Either he totally misjudged the flight or he should have communicated that he didn't have it. I've certainly seen worse mistakes go unpunished but it wasn't great.

Everyone makes mistakes and I can handle that. My bigger concern with Davies is I just don't see what he is going to bring to the team. With DCL it was clear to me that you had a fast, strong youngster who won alot of his headers and worked unbelievably hard for the team, his finishing was not great but hopefully that might improve with confidence. With Holgate there was clearly an elegant defender with good pace and great composure on the ball; I was worried about the mistakes and lapses of concentration but the raw materials were there.

With Tom Davies I don't really see the basic attributes to be a top class midfielder. He's not quick or especially strong. His touch and technique are decent but he's no Bernard or Gomes. His tackling is ok and he makes a decent amount of interceptions. His passing is a bit wayward though he is brave and mainly tries to move it forwards, I think he has decent vision. He certainly works hard and shows for the ball.

What sort of player would he be at his best? He's not quite quick or strong enough to be a destroyer, he's no Gueye or Fernandinho. He's not quite creative or skilled enough to be a 10, a De Bruyne or Mata type. He could maybe be a box to box player but again I'm not sure he quite has the athleticism to be a Wijnaldum or Doucore.

I think he certainly has it in him to become a Mark Noble or a James Ward Prowse but would that be good enough to merit a starting place in our midfield if we have genuine top 4/5 aspirations?

Maybe i'm being too harsh (fuelled still by the disappointment from tuesday) but I struggle and have struggled for a while to see what sort of player he is meant to become. Certainly there could be space for him as a squad player and perhaps that's enough' as you say yourself he will never become top class but could still be a useful asset. Tuesday was of course not all his fault though he should learn from his mistakes. As should Ancelotti!

Dave Williams
424 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:43:17
Sam- what a sensible post!
Having watched the goals a few times now I think Tom has been very unfairly victimised. A lot happened after he lost possession for the first goal and if we are blaming anyone it should be Pickford for not dealing with the corner.
Likewise the second goal- he gave away the free kick on the half way line and the entire team had chances to defend the free kick and get rid. Not down to him though he played his part, he certainly doesn't deserve criticism like he's had.
The same people are roasting him as did the same to DCL. “ Couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo”/ “ championship player at best” were two of the phrases of wisdom coming from the armchair typists who so bravely poured vitriol on a young lad who was trying his heart out. Well DCL has proved them wrong. He will likely be capped by England shortly and far from being a championship player will be worth an absolute fortune on the transfer market.
Now I'm not saying Tom will be the same- I always said my piece re Dom as I saw a pot in him. I'm not sure about Tom and Sam does an excellent job of analysing his play above. He will make a decent career but whether he will be top class I'm not sure but it will help him if the bully boys lay off him and accept that shit happens and we have to take it on the chin and get on with it. I am as passionate as anyone about this club but no one died, no one fell critically ill- we were careless and dropped two points but hey, we go again at Watford and we have a manager who has the ability to sort us out but not overnight. It will take time and there will be plenty of bumps in the road whilst we get there.
Dave Williams
425 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:45:20
Potential, not “ a pot”
Dave Lynch
426 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:49:25
IMO for what its worth.

Midfielders come in 2 categories, you have the dynamo who never stops running for 90 minutes and tackles everything that moves aka Gueye and Alan Ball ( bows in homage ).
Or you have the Pierlo type midfielder who isn't blessed with pace but can read the game superbly and can dictate the pace, direction and flow of the game.
Tom is neither of the above unfortunately.

Bill Gienapp
427 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:08:12
Sam (423) - excellent post. I like Davies, but I fear you may have hit the nail on the head with the Mark Noble/James Ward-Prowse ceiling. No shame in that, but like you said - is it good enough?
Darren Hind
428 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:23:43

I don't claim Tom Davies to be top draw. I actually say he is neither top or international class.
I would say you have pitched it about right when you put him in the Mark Noble bracket. . That's were we part company. Mark Noble would walk into our team. He may not be top class either, but he is a regular 6-7/10. Our midfielders often struggle to even register that they are on the pitch. They are cowards who hide.

I get that anyone who has a Ferrari and a Porche in his garage would be within his rights to turn down a VW Passat, but we have 5-6 clapped out Vauxhall Astra's in our midfield. Beggars cant be choosers.
Davies does not get into our side because he is a local boy ( an oft used and half witted argument raised by those oblivious to the lack of real alternatives) He gets in because the others are shite.

Tom Davies is quite simply braver than those around him. He will put his bollocks on the line rather than hide. He will look to win rather than settle for a draw. He may make the occasional mistake, but that doesn't set him apart from his Team mates. The disproportionate abuse he takes does that.

You claim you could see signs in DCL and Holgate. I say a blind man could see signs in DCL and Holgate. . but there were an awful lot of people on here who dismissed them every bit as readily as the Dismiss the still twenty one year old.

I may be being a little generous with Davies, but nowhere near as generous as those wanting to hang the Tuesdays lost victory on him are being to the other gutless frankies who have slipped quietly away form the scene of the crime - Again

Brian Williams
429 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:52:17
Darren. Every player we have gets stick at one time or another. Yeh there's the alleged whipping boys but all the players have come in for it.
The "frankies" who've slipped away from the scene of the crime actually did ok on Tuesday. Schneiderlin played well and played some excellent passes. Delph did quite well too on the whole.
The thing is Davies didn't on Tuesday so naturally he's gonna come in for some stick!
It's a game by game thing isn't it?
Proof of that if ever it was needed was the Palace fans reaction to Tosun.
After his first start when he scored against City he was being lauded as the loan of the decade for them.
Come the second game when he missed a sitter and they're calling him a "fraud" and a poor man's Benteke.
It's the way of things. One shite game and the payer gets it in the neck. Several shite games and he'll get it constantly.
Our midfield in general (at the moment) is pretty shite and they're all gonna get it from time to time.
I agree that Tom is brave and tries things others don't have the bottle to do. Unfortunately his attempts often result in him losing the ball in dangerous places which put us under pressure.
That may improve in time but I don't think his lack of pace will and that's a big factor in him getting caught out too often IMO.
I know the others have their many faults but on Tuesday Tom's were more to the fore and they cost us.
Against Watford it 'll be somebody else's turn.

Everton that!

Chris Gould
430 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:25:30
Regardless of who was to blame for the debacle on Tuesday. I've never seen potential in Davies and don't believe he has anything to offer us in the long term. So many people tend to use the word 'energy' when describing him, presumably because they can't think of another positive attribute? I don't even think he brings this mythical 'energy'. He is ponderous on and off the ball, and he doesn't show any intensity when tracking back (my biggest frustration with him). He'll most likely be gone in the next season or two, and I doubt very much he'll be missed.

Tom Bowers
431 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:44:06
If they hadn't collapsed against the Barcodes everyone would have had very little but praise for the players and the performance.
Sad to say it all went belly up and it seemed like a defeat but we all should be used to this from Everton.
They are so unreliable and inconsistent that even when they are ahead when the final whistle goes most of us say ''phew, thank God that's over''.
Onward and upward has to be the cry and Carlo has seen the flaws.

Still only one defeat in the last nine Prem. games (City) cannot be that bad so just perhaps things are slowly changing for the good and next season's hopes'

Mike Gaynes
433 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:04:23
Sam #423 and Brian #429, you said it way better than I.

Chris #430, I think you're right that he's likely to be shipped out -- doesn't seem like a Carlo kind of player. I believe he does bring energy and intensity, but you and others make a good point that it's generally considered his strongest attribute as a player -- and that's not enough to make him a quality footballer, even a Noble or a Ward-Prowse.

It occurred to me last night -- as I (again) couldn't sleep thinking about those last few minutes -- that I cannot recall a single man-of-the-match performance from him, ever. We always have MOtM debates on the Forum at the final whistle, but Tom's name never comes up.

Mike Connolly
434 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:38:08
No one is hanging Davies just over Tuesday he has been playing bad for a while. fans are having ago at Davies because some of the fans are saying he's good and he is not. The reason the other clowns in the Mid aren't getting as much stick as him is, we all know they're shit and no one is defending them. Carlo needs to replace all the midfield.
John G Davies
435 Posted 23/01/2020 at 18:06:47
Darren 428,

Genuine question mate.

Who did you consider showed the character of a coward out of the players who played on Tuesday night?

Darren Hind
436 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:00:43
"The reason the other clowns in Mid arent getting as much stick as him is, We all know they are shit and no one is defending them"

The only saving grace for this season has been seeing Holgate and DCL make complete toby jugs out of those shrewd judges who so savagely hammered them.
I cant wait for Tom Davies to do the same.

These people wouldnt recognise a footballer if he crashed his gold Bentley straight through into their living room, staggered out in a cloud of charlie and made a bee line for their missus.

Six different managers have selected him to play premier league football even though he has only just turned 21... but he's "never going to be a premier league player".

The shrewd judges have spoke Tom. You better retire lad.

Peter Laing
437 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:22:45
Darren - the assertion that Davies is never going to be a Premier League player is clearly wide of the mark. He's played eighty odd times for Everton and scored 5 goals. Probably the biggest impidence to Davies was the goal that he scored against Man City. Big things were expected and the bar was raised. Similar in many ways to Jack Rodwell after he scored against Man United.

The problem though for Davies is that he has not made progress. It's hard to know what his natural position actually is and given that he plays in Midfield the attributes that are expected are seemingly lacking.

Comparing Davies to DCL and Holgate is interesting. DCL has played 100 games for Everton, Holgate around 50. The stats in terms of performances would rank Davies between the two, the difference though is that DCL and Holgate have shown measurable improvement. I don't think that you can say the same for Davies. You might be right, and I might be wrong and Davies may come good. Time will tell and only Ancelotti will really know if Davies has a future at Everton. It would be sound to see a Scouser making it and it would save Everton a lot of money in the long run.

Robert Tressell
438 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:25:40
Tom is not at the level of gerrard, beckham, scholes etc but he's certainly got as much about him as james milner, nicky butt and jordan henderson at the same age. Even if he settles into a noble / ward prowse then that's premier league stalwart territory if a little short of england caps. Personally expect him to be better than the pair of them. We seem to be snooty about players who are not world beaters. You only need a couple at that level and with the rest its about attitude and application. Compare him to title winning multiple england caps Delph. Tom is hardly outclassed.
Peter Laing
439 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:33:24
Robert I think the difference between Davies - Milner and Henderson is that both of those players can and do out run him. Both are more naturally aggressive but at 21 hopefully there is time for Davies to develop.
Conor McCourt
440 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:34:00
spot on Robert
Peter Laing 12 months ago you wouldn't have said that about the other two so there's still time. With regards to Henderson his fitness and stamina was questioned when he first went there.
Brent Stephens
441 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:38:00
Peter #437. That's a well-balanced post. I doubt there's a poster on TW who doesn't want Tom (or any other young lad) to develop into the real thing. There have been so many games where Tom couldn't make an impression but we all hope he can do so. I wonder if Carlo should get him to play a less expansive game? Look at the limited ground that somebody like Schneids covers. Perhaps Tom would be more suited to sitting in front of the back four and sweeping up there. With more bite than the likes of Schneids.
Darren Hind
442 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:58:12

Both DCL and Holgate are older than Davies. like so many sportsman They are making huge strides as moving fro their early to mid twentys. This period is a crucial time in the development of these young men. When they were Toms age they were taking dogs abuse from people who insisted they were Championship at best.

The comments made and the abuse directed at this twenty one year old doesnt surprise me, but I've always known that one day I will walk away from this club and this would be the reason.

Not going anywhere until Tom Davies has shown the world who the real morons are though

Tony Abrahams
443 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:03:26
Interesting thought that Brent, and it might just be a position that suits Tom Davies. He's been pushed from pillar to post, played for so many different managers, who have possibly all wanted to play him in slightly different ways, and Ancelotti has already identified that Tom, is better at working hard, and getting in amongst the opposition, than he has been at using the ball, so trying him in this role might just suit the kid?

Davies might have played 80 games at this level, but he's played all his football in the engine room, asked to do numerous different jobs, and never in a settled side, which must be very unsettling in itself?

Robert Tressell
444 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:18:45
Unfortunately for Tom, he should od be learning the ropes alongside Gomes and Gbamin in midfield. That looks like a very balanced and promising midfield trio to me. Maybe next season. We can then move on to slating Anthony Gordon for having a worse goals to game ratio than Sadio Mane.
Brent Stephens
445 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:20:37
Tony, it's pure speculation on my part. I'm just thinking of it in terms of a game based on Davies covering less ground, less chasing this cause and that cause, which is a based on stamina; instead basing his game on short sharp bursts of speed in front of the back line, being able to read when to dive in.
Dennis Stevens
446 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:26:37
Aye, Brent - young Tom could become a latter day Lee Carsley!
Mike Gaynes
447 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:27:36
"I've always known that one day I will walk away from this club and this would be the reason."


Darren, you'd cease to be an Everton fan because of comments about the players from people on TW?

Brent Stephens
448 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:31:36
Exactly, Mr Stevens.
Len Hawkins
449 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:31:40
Well I suppose Darren has a point, until every young player who tends to misplace passes and lose the ball has a brain fart and runs the ball back to his own area put his team mates under pressure and a goal knocks the heart out of everyone of his team mates, he hasn't fulfilled his potential. Just thank God he plays football he could have been an electrician/plumber/gas fitter where by 21 you are expected to have a good grasp of your job.
Perhaps that was the chance for Carlo to let Dunc have his hour in the locked dressing room and give them a few home truths in his native tongue.
Darren Hind
450 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:43:57
Len Hawkins

Coleman. Mina. Keane. Digne. Shneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Delph all earn more money. They are All older and have all given away more goals than Davies.. but hey

You keep battering away at the younger fella...Makes you look soooo Knowledgeable

That Pickfords a cracking goalie too ist he Len . .totally blameless for the Newcastle goals

Mike Connolly
451 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:50:10
Darren Id be over the moon if Tom proved me wrong. I wont hold my breath. As someone said put him is his right position. However, what is his best position. Its not anywhere in the MF area. 21 years of age getting dogs abuse. 16years of age getting no abuse.. Rooney. Why because he was good and age does not matter.
Tony Abrahams
452 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:04:51
Pure speculation from somebody who watches a lot of Everton games though Brent.

I think Davies, will prove to have enough stamina, but he's chased and played for a lot of lost causes, during his Everton career so far, and playing the kid in a settled position, in a settled side, might be what both settles him down, and also hopefully brings him on?

Tony Abrahams
453 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:21:10
Not a question for me Mike G, but I think Darren, probably talks of walking away from Everton, because of some of the stick, our young players get inside the stadium mate.

Another contradiction maybe, but although Everton have definitely got one of the most loyal fan bases in the country, (it's quite possible, they have the best) they have also got a lot of desperate supporters, supporters who have mostly only known despair, and are absolutely desperate for a bit of success, and when things go wrong, that desperation inside, rears it's angry head, and some little fucker is going to get the blame!

If Delph, would have been “calmer” from the kick-off, this thread would probably have also been much calmer, but it's a team game football, and I'm sure that Ancellotti knows that good teams need leadership, because it's what keeps everyone calm!

Jamie Crowley
454 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:28:27
Darren @ 450 -

Your defense of Davies is admirable.

Would you agree with my assertion that Tom Davies can not continue exercising poor judgment, and needs to be held to a higher standard moving forward? All the while sticking behind the kid, but recognizing he simply has to change that portion of his game that hurts the team?

Genuinely curious. Cheers.

Carl Manning
455 Posted 24/01/2020 at 00:33:47
In response to the “ judge Ancelotti on last 5 years not 10 “ to show he's a chancer and the games passed him by. in the last 5 years, I include 2014 he has won the champions league, UEFA super cup, FIFA club World Cup, and the double in Germany. As well as last year being voted the 8th greatest manager of all time. Oh, and finishing 2nd to Juventus isn't a slant on anybody's cv! It's like finishing 2nd to Liverpool this year. They are untouchable. Napoli are desperate for him back now by all accounts.

If you're going to make daft statements do some homework.

Gordon Adie
456 Posted 24/01/2020 at 01:09:20
It will probably rain tomorrow.
James Flynn
457 Posted 24/01/2020 at 14:26:17
I don't know if other countries use the same term for athletes, but in America Tom Davies has what we call "intangibles".

He's mature for his age and was when a teen. He's courageous; always shows for the ball, fights for everything. He has an attackers instinct; turns up-field with the ball to run or look for a forward pass. As a bonus, a local lad, playing at Goodison for his boyhood Club. So I think it fair to add that young Tom "Gets the Club", has the "Everton DNA". Good stuff all round.

Yet, he's never going to be a first-rate big league player. Those saying so are projecting what they want to happen onto a player who's lacking in critical attributes, particularly for playing in the EPL.

What's glaringly obvious is that young Tom lacks foot quickness, is devoid of pace, and even lacks the quick, 2-3 meter burst to clear some space for himself to do something good with the ball. His passes are slow, his shot soft. He's not going to develop these attributes because they come with the physical gifts.

Gifts that DCL and Holgate possess, which is why they're developing on a upward trajectory and Tom (as dedicated a player as the other two, mind) hasn't developed at all. This is the fourth season with the First Team for all three of them. All three have been right there during the chaos of those seasons. Two improving, one not. Davies.

A good kid, he should continue making a nice living as a pro. But if we want the CL and better, which we all do, we'll need higher quality mid-fielders than Tom Davies.

Mike Connolly
458 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:50:15
Nicely put James 457
Conor McCourt
459 Posted 25/01/2020 at 14:15:32
Carl Manning 455- to firstly talk absolute gibberish and then lecture on doing your homework is quite ironic.

2014 cannot be included in the last 5 years because it's not in that timeframe since it's 5.5 years.

In the last 5 years

He finished 3rd in a two horse with Real Madrid

Won the bundesliga in a year when Dortmund were still struggling after Klopp so no competition and did so with a diminished points tally. He was then sacked after a poor start to the following campaign. He did not win a cup in Germany, he won the community shield twice.

Took Napoli from a title challenging team to finishing 12 points worse in his first season before their collapse this year. They don't want him back after the mess he left them in, they just don't want Gattuso.

In the last 5 years all 3 teams were on a downward spiral and he was sacked accordingly

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