Brands calms fans while players reject Ferguson criticism

Wednesday, 8 January, 2020 340comments  |  Jump to last

Marcel Brands spoke with angry fans at Finch Farm yesterday while accounts from the dressing room at Anfield suggest some senior team members hit back at the notion they didn't try against Liverpool.

That is according to separate reports today as Everton reels from a humiliating FA Cup exit to what was tantamount to their local rivals' Under-23s team over the weekend.

The Blues lost 1-0 to a Jürgen Klopp team featuring half-a-dozen teenagers and were dumped out of the competition at the first hurdle; the recrimination, hurt and frustration from fans has been palpable in the aftermath.

According to The Times, that led a small group of Evertonians to drive to the club's Halewood training complex to demand an audience with the players, a request that was, predictably, denied.

That prompted Director of Football, Brands, to come out to the gates of Finch Farm where he spent 20 minutes listening to the supporters' concerns and complaints about what they felt was a cowardly display at Anfield and the feeling that too many players have been using Everton as one last cosy pay-check.

[In his report, Paul Joyce also made mention of an alleged interaction between Fabian Delph and a supporter on social media in which the midfielder called the fan a "gobshite" and insisted that the players were more upset than the fans by the defeat to the Reds.]

The Dutchman was said to have promised to relay the fans' feelings to the players and coaching staff but if an account in The Athletic is anything to go by, there might not be a very receptive audience among the more experienced members of the squad.

Paddy Boyland and Greg O'Keeffe report that assistant coach Duncan Ferguson tore into the team for their weak display in the 3rd round cup tie but some of the senior players rejected the assertion that they didn't give their all over the 90 minutes.

Instead, some of them "chose to blame the setup and tactics" according to the report, with one source saying: "It's hard for individuals to help the team as they cannot keep the ball and play three or four passes to each other. They are playing bad football."

New manager, Carlo Ancelotti, now has the task of regrouping and refocusing what, from the outside, appears to be a broken team that is low on morale.

This week, before the visit of Brighton and Hove Albion, offers the Italian his first full week of coaching the Everton squad since his arrival as Marco Silva's replacement last month.  

Reader Comments (340)

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Jeff Holt
1 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:25:06
If any of the senior players think the fans accept their pathetic excuses then they are more stupid than they are rubbish footballers!

If Dunc had played last week he would have done better than deadwood Sigsurrdson and lampost Schnerderlin!
Sean Kelly
2 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:25:44
They are still in denial. Cretins
Daniel A Johnson
3 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:26:44
Its a cliché but we are rotten to the core.

Plus who the hell is Fabian "Big Bollocks" Delph to have a pop at fans on twitter.

It's starting to bubble over now. At least the players know now that they are being called out, if they don't like it to put it bluntly then they can "fuck off".

Peter Neilson
4 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:27:18
Not a regrouping of the team from Sunday that's needed. Its hard to kick against the pricks but now's the time. Come on Carlo.
Roger Helm
5 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:29:19
CA needs to get it right for Brighton or things will get even uglier. Back to the Ferguson approach - maximum effort to win the ball back early then no farting around in midfield but quick passes up to two strikers.

And of course no Schneiderlin.

Geoff Williams
6 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:31:06
If Ferguson did tear into the players for that inept performance all credit to him but I would also support the assertion that that "set-up and tactics" were at fault.
Soren Moyer
7 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:33:30
We need to sack/ replace most of them if not all!
Kieran Kinsella
8 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:38:18
I'm trying to understand this quote "It's hard for individuals to help the team as they cannot keep the ball and play three or four passes to each other. They are playing bad football."

"cannot keep the ball." Does this mean they lack the ability to keep the ball? Or that they are not allowed to keep the ball? If the former, then surely you can blame them for lacking skill. If the latter, then why is passing sideways all they did in the second half?

"They are playing bad football." Who is playing bad football? Everyone other than the person arguing wit Dunc? Define bad football. We went long ball against Chelsea and won. We went fairly direct first half and had three shots on goal. We "passed" second half and were awful. So is the speaker defining long ball as "good" and passing as "bad football?" If so, who is this person? I would guess Jordan Pickford.

Ed Fitzgerald
9 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:39:08
Put Delph, Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson on the transfer list formally- cheeky fuckers Carlo does indeed take some of the blame for playing so deep and expecting us to play like Barça from the back. In time perhaps we can do that with different personnel but not now.

They weren't just shite in the second half but were crap in the first also it's just that the reds kids actually woke up to the fact how inept we were.

Joe Corgan
10 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:39:57
Well Ancelotti's job just got a lot easier didn't it? The players blaming the tactics and setup are the first ones out the door.

I'm not saying Ancelotti got it right but any player who thinks they “gave it everything” on Sunday doesn't deserve to be at the club.

Les Moorcroft
11 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:39:58
I'd like to know what was said outside Finch Farm.
John G Davies
12 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:44:02
Enough is enough.

I have always been against any booing or protest at the game.
That's changed.

I would like to see all our fans wave the white hankies on Saturday.
A sign of cowardice to let them know how we feel about their lack of effort.

Paul A Smith
13 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:48:24
This club could be in massive trouble. If we don't beat Brighton and beat them with a performance that shows they care, the rot could set in beyond control.

Kieran, its very vague isn't it. Strange quotes from no name and in a very cryptic manner.

Terry Downes
14 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:49:09
No point in putting them on the transfer list nobody will buy them.
The best and only way to get rid of em is use them in some sort of swop deals ??
Jerome Shields
15 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:49:39
I remember once trying to take my football boots off and my Uncle, a active fan, grabbing one of the Senior by the throat, pinning me to the wall behind him, when he objected to assertions from the coach that players hadn't played hard enough, after a humiliating loss. The abuse we got going home in my Uncles car was something else.

What this report tells me is that the Senior players who answered Fergusion back, are sitting on their legal lucrative contracts and do not give a toss.

Well done to the fans who demonstrated outside the gate, aleast Brands came out to talk to them.

I have came across reports that Sigurdsson offered them cake. I hope this is untrue. Marie Antoinette was guillotine for that and so should Sigurrdsson if he did. It's bad enough his Mirror interview, but that would be a step too far.

Winston Williamson
16 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:49:41
There's a group of players at our club who, under a wide variety (style-wise) of managers have been lethargic, lacking presence and inept. Utter shite.

Tactics? You're senior, professional footballers, paid millions. Pull your fucking socks up and give everything on the pitch. Every fucking game.

I'm sick of 80% of these losers. Their demeanour, their attitude, their lack of commitment. The other 20% are the ‘kids' of the team. They nearly always give everything.

Accept the fact (senior players), you were out-thought and out-fought by a bunch of kids. Not tactics. Not the set-up. You acted like cowards. You got the deserved result.

Pretty much every player over the age of 27 can fuck right off. Coleman excepted. Throw that over-rated prick of a keeper in to.

Duncan Ferguson is a fan, first and foremost, says so himself. He left the ground in a rage, so I'm told. I can see why. It must of taken every ounce of self-control not to have twatted the pricks there and then!

Yo, senior players...yeah you, fuuuuuuuck off

Billy Dawber
17 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:51:05
Just read in another newspaper Brands has signed 7 local lads. Apparently they turned up at Halewood with their boots trying to get a game and fuck me they are all playing against Brighton on Saturday. Might get a good performance for a change!
Steve Wright
18 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:51:49
Hi I'm new to this site, been Everton fan since 1961, I have never been as low as this since the 2-1 defeat to the reds at the old trafford FA cup semi final a long time ago, I am convinced big Dunc will really put these under performing playboys in place, would love to be a fly on the wall ! COYB
Ian Riley
19 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:51:52
Soren#7, your right but realistically many players are on contracts that unless we pay them off they are going nowhere. Sadly we have been the kid in sweat shop. No plan and left with many average players on big salaries. This has left us struggling to buy players under the fair play rules.

I was as disappointed as other fans with Sundays performance but they are all we have at present. Moving players on is going to take three or more transfer windows to get the players the manager wants. We have to get behind the team starting Saturday. The club is not safe from the drop. Sunday is over. Time to move on.

Jim Bennings
20 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:52:46
Our players really never do themselves any favours do they?

Are they all really that thick up top?

I said a while ago that I think we have a really stupid bunch of players and this last week has just backed up my claim.

All they had to do on Sunday was turn up, work their socks off (it was a friggin local derby after all), forget about tactics or the technical side of it, just turn up against a bunch of Liverpool kids and get the job done, record our first win at Anfield in 20 years and one or more has made themselves a local hero amongst fans.

But no.

Jesus they couldn't even get a bloody replay!

Instead all it's done is drive a massive even bigger wedge in the already fractured relationship between players and fans and this week has been awful for every Evertonian.

They really are either that thick, or they just don't give a shit, or both!

Tony Twist
21 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:52:56
It was a sh*tshow. A naming and shaming of these players is required. True, the manager and dunc are not sqeaky clean either as every man and his dog knows siggy and sneiderlin in any formation does not work. A lot of these players can't even do the basics. If they think a header and a couple of shots on target is good enough then they are deluded.
Michael Coville
22 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:53:41
Haven't been on here for while but had to comment about this. The big problem under Silva was that the senior players had too much power. Along came Ferguson and he had them at least trying and playing better. Now they are trying the same tactics with Ancelotti, criticizing the Managers tactics, a Manager who has won everything. Players who cost a fortune and are earning millions a year should be able to follow instructions, be able to pass to one another, to be fit so they are able to play at full speed for 90 minutes, to be able to run into open spots, to have passion for the club and not to be out-played by a bunch of kids. We need to get rid of these senior players, we are wrotten to the core with them in the squad. Over the next month or so we will see how good a Manager Ancelotti really is, in the meantime I hope Ferguson beats the shit out of them.
Graham Coldron
23 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:54:47
This sounds like certain players realising that they haven't got the pace they used to have and being embarrassed by a bunch of kids who ran rings around them in a high profile game.Some players know when this happens e.g. Phil Neville against Wigan in the cup. Ancelotti is no mug and would have sussed this out by now.

Expect a few to be shipped out before the end of this month with hopefully some replacements.

Paul A Smith
24 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:58:14
Winston that 2nd paragraph is great. You a totally right in my opinion. The game should always be about commitment and passion first and foremost.

Too much is made of this tactics nonsense and I will say it again, these players are reading social media fans whining about tactics and formations they haven't a clue about and it resonates.

The players feel confident the fans either agree or will be on their side if the manager should be hung out to dry. They get away with murder and I am glad they are being questioned in numbers publicly.

Its not just our players it happens everywhere. Soon as Koeman was out the door they praised the fact "training was much better" then Silva "wasn't being clear with his messages"

The more I type the more clear it becomes how horrible they are and also look at the fan like he/she is nothing too.

Danny Broderick
25 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:59:09
I'm still angry at Sunday's game. But I have to say, I have no problem with Delph standing up for himself. That shows he has character. He's hurting like the rest of us. I imagine someone like Coleman would do the same.

I doubt very much that Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott etc would be sufficiently bothered to even try to defend themselves.

The club has to do something before the game against Brighton. Something to acknowledge that Sunday was simply unacceptable. I also think Ancelotti has to stamp down some authority. Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin should not be in the 18.

I have to say that I have never hated a group of Everton players more than this lot. They have thrown several managers under the bus. They will not be able to do that with Ancelotti. If performances are not up to scratch, the finger of blame should be pointed squarely at the players.

Winston Williamson
26 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:03:01
Especially a derby game Paul. There should be even more commitment on display in a derby game!!

I agree. These players read shite online and think they get the feel of how fans are responding. They should try it on here. They'd be broken in an hour!

Brent Stephens
27 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:04:36
"Instead, some of them "chose to blame the setup and tactics" according to the report, with one source saying: "It's hard for individuals to help the team as they cannot keep the ball and play three or four passes to each other. They are playing bad football.""

That might be an excuse against another Premier League side but it won't wash against a bunch of kids. Are we seriously being asked to believe that a side of highly experienced Prem players (including internationals) would blame this on tactics?! You don't stand like statues in set positions just because a manager might (might) have told you to play in a particular way. You don't stand off, you attack the ball and the player.

Daniel A Johnson
28 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:09:32
In the next round of player recruitment we need to seriously look at the personal day to day behaviour and mental capacity/fortitude of any potential player.

We have recruited failures from other big teams and you automatically assume that they were not given a fair chance or just not able to get game time etc ( but lets not forget Siggy was found out at Spurs).


Maybe they weren't good enough because they were lazy, lacking in effort, take zero pride in their performance, chasing the ££££££ or simply they just don't care as they are already millionaires.

In any job, in any walk of life you get workers who are bad apples, lazy, disingenuous, uninterested and just after getting paid for doing the bare minimum whilst they also drag everyone down to their level. We have more than a few players like this at Everton FC.

The culture of the club on the playing side is all wrong, Ancelotti, Unsworth and Jeffers need to build a culture and get on the same page. Just look at the Liverpool youngsters you could sense the immense pride they felt in being given the opportunity to wear that shirt at Anfield. Whereas our team looked like they wanted to be anywhere but on a football pitch. We genuinely do at the moment have a large group of players who have no love for the club, no respect for the shirt or for us fans.

Mark Dunford
29 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:09:38
Delph is a fool to get involved with an argument on social media. He has been a poor buy even at the knock down price we paid - more or less constantly injured with a massive sense of his own importance. We need leadership in midfield not someone who screams in frustration when the game passes him by.
Derek Taylor
30 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:11:57
It's truly amazing how the euphoria of the Ancelloti appointment has decimated in little more than a couple of weeks. We are led to understand that the team- or at least some of them - are already in revolt about the tactics he has introduced which some say was the reason for a similar bust up he suffered at Napoli.

If that is right, and I sincerely hope not, his will be the shortest reign in our history as, whatever we may say, it's the players who rule the roost and can say 'yes' or 'no' to any manager inflicted upon them.

Suggestions of mass sackings - even the England goalkeeper was on some ' transfer' lists this morning - are sheer nonsense which grossly over-generous contracts will militate against. Only Everton, with the most generous backer in the land, could land itself in this mire. Gawd help us !

Stephen Brown
31 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:12:57
This is the final straw with these cowards for me !!

We should all be 100% behind Carlo ( mistake in tactics or not) and Dunc. This guy has managed pretty much all the best players in the world over the last 20 years yet it's his fault that players can't pass 5 yards, can't tackle, can't track back, miss sitters and lose to a bunch of kids!! The mind boggles!?

Carlo needs full support from the fans at the game so these players who are ducking responsibility and stealing a fortune are held to account!

This is no nobody they are dealing with here it's a powerhouse of World football ! Let's hope the cowards are rooted out quickly and I for one will be behind Carlo all the way!

Tony Marsh
32 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:13:32
There are certain players at Everton who are a disgrace. We know who they are. These pricks insult our intelligence and they insult the badge. Nobody put a shift in on Sunday, not one of them. It's disgusting for any of them to try to defend themselves. Villa steam-rolled Liverpool's kids 5-0.

One thing I do agree with the deadbeats on is the tactics were all wrong. Ancelotti bottled it big time. Klopp schooled Carlo to such an extent, it appeared as if Marco Silva was still in charge.

Lots of work to be done. Virtually impossible shifting out the deadwood Koeman and Allardyce lumbered us with. Selling Tosun, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Pickford, Delph etc would take a miracle. In all seriousness, we couldn't even give these jokers away.

I don't believe for one second that Ancelotti is the right fit for Everton but he's here now and he looks lost. Like Koeman, Ancelotti has come for the money and doesn't give a fuck about this club. If Ancelotti had anything about him, that horrific starting eleven on Sunday would not have occurred. It was obvious, almost a cast-iron certainty, what would happen.

Season over in January again and the fans starting to turn. God help any of these fuckers at the weekend if they think they can coast through the Brighton game... but, then again, is anyone really that arsed anymore?

Every player who took to the pitch on Sunday at Anfield should be fined a week's wages and that money shared out amongst the fans who went to the game and had to endure that shite. If I was one of those players, I would've already offered it.

Jim Bennings
33 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:14:16
Delph to me is rapidly becoming the latest version of Ashley Williams.

A player we were all told was a captain and leader of men, turned out to be a poorly disciplined gobshite.

Kieran Kinsella
34 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:16:51
Daniel 28

"behaviour and mental capacity/fortitude of any potential player." This is something RM went on about and Brands has also talked a lot about the "personality profile" of players. The problem is, the template we seem to be using for recruitment is Aiden McGeady. Overweight, over paid, over rated, lazy as anything, capable of a moment of skill once every few months.

Daniel A Johnson
35 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:17:03
100% Agree with that Jim Bennings he just strolls around the pitch gobbing off at people. Another example of a big name has been who's stealing a wage from EFC
Kieran Kinsella
36 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:18:57
Jim 33

Nail on head. I thought we were getting a Gareth Barry type but you're absolutely right

Kev Dooley
37 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:18:59
What a difference it would have made to have stolen that win at Greyskull,
Now its fingerprinting, victim card being played all over the shop.
What has this club become, ?

The Only way to put a halt to this Eastenders type shit show is to do Brighton good and proper.


Jay Harris
38 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:20:56
Just when we thought we were turning the corner.

It just goes to show you cant build on sand.

We need a clearout of the rotten element and need to rebuild the spine of the side starting with signing an appropriate replacement for Gueye.

A top class CB wouldnt go amiss either because Keane is a busted flush.

A goalscoring mid would be a bonus too.

Daniel A Johnson
39 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:23:37
Did those Liverpool youngsters question Klopps tactics? What right do our over achievers have to criticise Ancelotti? Especially as they have already seen off Koeman, Allardyce and Silva.
Paul A Smith
40 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:24:23
Brent, excellent point there about tactics v opposition in term of their experience.

Simple but so true Brent they could have taken a teamtalk from the remaining chuckle brother and should have still won.

Danny I don't mind anyone in any walk of life defending themselves but Delph said 'you'll be asking me for a photo', as in I am someone and you are not. Its snobbery and arrogance to speak like that to any fan.

Kenny Smith
41 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:27:39
There's no doubt the tactics weren't great but I don't think like us all that Ancellotti expected the shite to make so many changes.
Some of these players though need to move on but paying them a kings ransom for sitting on their arse or a light jog during a game when we want blood and thunder isn't going to get them out. It needs to be made uncomfortable for them and calling them out on an individual basis is the way forward. We've spunked 400 million on this lot. 400 million.
Johnny Rainford
42 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:28:16
The only mystery is why only 7 supporters turned up. If I was still a season ticket holder paying upwards of £600 a year to watch that shite I would be demanding answers at the training ground too.

STEPHEN #31 spot on mate and I said same thing on these boards on Sunday night, this is not Carlo's team he has inherited ABSOLUTE shite so I don't get the anti-ancelotti posts either mate.

Bill Gienapp
43 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:30:15
What did Delph say on Twitter? I've heard various allusions to it, but it appeared that the tweets were deleted when I checked.
Daniel A Johnson
44 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:33:44
Blame tactics all you want but I would still expect first team regulars on over 㿞k a week to pass and move and find a man, make runs, put the effort in etc. First teamers shouldn't need to be handheld and micromanaged throughout the 90min.

The worrying thing for me with the players blaming tactics is it shows we have a group of players who unwilling to be accountable for their own short comings or poor performances. Its always someone else's fault obviously. When they cross the white line they alone are responsible for their own performance not the manager.

Its worrying.

Stephen Brown
45 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:39:00
Johnny 42

100% agree! Whilst accepting nobody is beyond criticism we must have patience and faith in one of the best manager ever!! We have to show we are behind him and not allow these players to throw him under the bus! Otherwise where do we go next ?!

I'm perversely looking forward to Don Carlo sorting some of these charlatans out!!

Darren Hind
46 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:40:05
You wouldnt want to be the Everton player who plays the first stray pass against Brighton
John G Davies
47 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:43:47
Daniel, #28.

Great post.
Something that has baffled me for a long time, the lack of research on men you are spending tens of millions of pounds on. Surely we should have a team who talk to coaches, players, managers, training and stadium staff etc who have worked with the player in question. That would give you an insight to the players character (or lack of).

This, along with the same team looking at figures reflecting players' performance in all aspects of the game – running figures, tackling figures – both when winning and, more importantly, when losing.

Niall McIlhone
48 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:45:00
Angry fans descending on training grounds are common events in Italy and Spain so this won't faze CA. By all accounts, the fans in question were not threatening or aggressive and fair play to Brands for acting as the sounding board- all in all, it is probably for the best. One can only hope that Brands has the capability to sort this shit fest out and get at least 7 or 8 high earning misfits off the books., preferably at least two this month. No names, no pack drill!
Strangely, having been in a state of extreme anger on Sunday, I am starting to see the match as cathartic.
Bill Fairfield
49 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:45:07
I don't agree that the managers hands are tied and he has no option than to play these losers,I would rather see some of the kids go down fighting than watching these spineless morons I've had enough
Brian Wilkinson
50 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:52:12
It is a shame we are where we are and still trying to get points, otherwise I would have rolled out the u23,s and made that first team step down and play on a cold wet Southport pitch.

Said it when we Had the other Managers, this core of players will still be here and nothing will change after the bedding in period, too many players who are stealing a living and do not care less as long as they are picking up their salery.

I do feel for Coleman and Baines, lost a little of their speed, but give it their all, even though they are on a downward career path, they never give less than 100%.

Time to start looking closer to home either through our academy or the championship.

Ray Roche
51 Posted 08/01/2020 at 18:59:18
Darren, at 80k a week I'm prepared to risk it.

God knows what reception Schniderlin will get if Ancellotti is mad. or cruel...enough to play him.

Dave Williams
52 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:01:32
This is developing into a very serious situation. Fans are disgusted with most of the players, management is annoyed with the players and the players are turning on the fans and management for how they feel about the players.
I have seen the exchange between Delph and the supporter which does Delph no favours at all. Quite why he got himself involved in such an exchange is beyond me but I'm afraid the players are just coming across as spoilt prima donnas who think they should be beyond reproach.
What they seem to be ignoring is that we all saw their performance on Sunday either in person or live on TV so no amount of trying to blame someone else is going to con us into thinking that they did all try their best and indeed if they did then how come they lost with so little evidence of any effective response to the goal?
Problem is how to move on. Clear the air talks are no doubt taking place between management and players but how the fractured relationship between players and fans can be repaired is another matter.
So much depends now on team selection. It is hard to see how Carlo could select S and/ or S and indeed Delph ( who sounds like a very unpleasant prima Donna in his exchange on Twitter).
Would players apologise via the press- unlikely if they are blaming management. In the good old days players like this would officially be put on the transfer list but that doesn't seem to happen now. We need a win against Brighton- it might all seem better then.
Tony Abrahams
53 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:03:37
This thread is really good, no over-reaction just mostly sensible Evertonians, finally seeing through quite a few of these players.

My biggest wish is that one of the worst defeats in the clubs history, might end up being one of the best things to happen to us because let's face it this club has been in no mans land for years, a place where “there is always next week” has even become “Next year” but hopefully this is going to change forever now.

John Cartwright
54 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:08:30
A few home truths from Duncan seems to have ruffled the feathers of the prima donnas. If they can't be sold, which l doubt, let them rot in the reserves. Surely the time for our own younger players to get their chance. We could try a midfield of Richarlisson, Davies, Holgate and Gordon. DCL and Kean up front. Mina and Baines + 2 at the back and Calamity Pickford in goal.
Steve Croston
55 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:09:13
Delph, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Walcott. Sell them immediately. All of them to the highest bidder.
Can you believe we pay the best part of HALF A MILLION POUNDS per week for that little lot. Half a million quid!!! It's absolutely tragic and they are the cancer that's eating our club. Over the hill 30 somethings (or close to 30) who have absolutely nothing to offer us. Nothing.
Fuck them all off, draw a line under it and move on.
They were all shite against Liverpool and I have no doubt that 4 players from our u-23s would have done better last Sunday. I'm still seething with rage at what happened, and when I think of any of our players especially the aforementioned quartet, my blood literally boils. That is all.
Rob Halligan
57 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:21:17
Just received a rather alarming text from someone who knows an awful lot about what goes on at Finch farm. During the meeting with Brands, the lads involved have warned Brands that the team need to win the next five games, which most would consider to be very winnable, and unless they do, there will be "a firm" waiting at finch farm when the last of the five games is finished. That's the way I interpreted the text anyway, as it was worded slightly different.

Trust me, what else was in that text I dare not put on here, but it does sound very alarming.

Terry White
58 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:23:54
Rob (#57), please explain. What is "a firm"?
Dave Ganley
59 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:28:00
Brent #27 spot on. No matter what tactics, theres no excuse for seasoned professionals getting beat by a bunch of kids with no experience.

Niall #48, yes I can see your point about it being cathartic, maybe this will be a watershed moment that nobody can ignore. The players are finally getting the blame that they have deserved for some time and Ancelotti will have no doubts about the character of some of the players. I suppose it's better that CA see this now rather than a few months down the line.

I've seen the Delph tweet, no excuse for that. Will be very disappointed if he pulls on a blue shirt again. Fair play to the fans who turned up at FF, it's about time that somebody finally told them exactly how it is and how as fans we suffer much more than the players. Glad that Brands went out and actually listened to them. Saturday will be interesting to say the least. Hopefully out of the ashes etc

Robert Tressell
60 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:32:18
What seems to be missing is a trusted lieutenant on the playing staff. Mourinho for example used John Terry for this. In fairness, for all his limitations, Phil Neville probably did a similar job for us in the Moyes era. Coleman might be the nearest we have but he doesnt seem the biggest personality. None of the players are yet loyal to Dunc or Ancelotti - all were bought under a string of sacked managers. Obviously none of us know who the real prima donnas are - but its starting to feel like we have some. Ancelotti is obviously experienced and by all accounts is good man manager but we could really use some motivated aggressive players pulling in the right direction - and a few players told to train on their own as they see out their contracts.
Kieran Kinsella
61 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:33:09
Hopefully a removal firm
Ken Kneale
62 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:39:58
Kieran - we need a fleet of them lots to clear out
Bill Fairfield
63 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:41:40
Brands also told these lads that he'd done over 70 deals since he's been at the club but we need to get more out or FFP will kill us.Doesnt look promising for this window anyway
Conor McCourt
64 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:44:24
I have it on good authority that when the lads came to the door they were taken by Brands to a nearby room. One of the fellas turned to Marcel and said " what to fuck is going on at this club " to which Brands replied " Don't ask me I've been demoted to usher since the Italian fella came in"
Mike Gaynes
65 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:47:12
Rob #57, what does that mean?
Brent Stephens
66 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:52:08
Rob #57. If that (not you) was in any way a physical threat made to and / or via Brands then I'm disgusted at that and I'm sure somebody would be taking appropriate action.
Brian Hennessy
67 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:52:12
Fair play to the fans that went to Finch Farm. They have the club at heart which is more than I can say for a lot of our players.

I honestly never want to see Delph, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Walcott in an Everton shirt again and would prefer some of our u23 players to be drafted into the squad instead, they cannot be any worse than what we have got.

As soon as Jonjo Kenny can be brought back from his loan I would also get rid of Sidebe.

Digne needs to be dropped to give him a kick in the arse.

This is a crucial transfer window for us along with the summer. Once again Brands biggest job will be to offload the freeloaders left at the club and bring in some quality players with some character.

Johnny Rainford
68 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:52:52
Kieran #61... 😆😆😆
Anthony Jones
69 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:54:23
This stuff about attitude is a bit off the mark.

We have several mediocre older players who were given bumper contracts to come to Everton.

I think the players showed real motivation and commitment against Chelsea, but they were outrun against Liverpool U11s.

Senior internationals with big contracts and even bigger egos are going to struggle to deal with this kind of embarrassment. I think they got into a downward spiral as they realised their limitations.

But still, we don't have the players for 3 at the back. Dunc knew that.

John P McFarlane
70 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:54:39
My understanding of a 'Firm' is that it is a group of hoodlums, gangster types. Things seem to be going from bad to worse with each passing day.
Rob Halligan
71 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:55:23
Terry (58) and Mike (65). I'm surprised, certainly Terry, unless you are also from across pond, you are asking this. A firm is a gang of lads, can be anything from between say, 100 - 200 lads. Back in the days when hooliganism was rife, most clubs had a firm, who were hell bent on causing trouble. I'm not saying the firm I mention above will be anything like that number, but by the sounds of it, I'd say a police presence would be required at finch farm to quell any potential problems
Joe McMahon
72 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:56:14
We are a bit of a shambolic mess really, aren't we. How has it come to this, the same season that lot will go unbeaten and win the league and possibly CL (again)
Steven Astley
73 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:59:55
I don't say this with hindsight, but I always hated the Delph signing. Besides the fact he is a shit footballer, he offers nothing and is a worse disruption to the group than Rooney and Sigurdsson were. He's a little gobshite and he should have been outta the door straight after his on the pitch outburst "you're all fucking shit".
Wanker. Never ever will be an Everton player.
Gerry Ring
74 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:05:20
I believe the most recent rot set in with Silva's acceptance of the shocking & pathetic performances of Schneiderlein & Walcott over the last 18 months, both regular players during his tenure. Neither should be considered for 1st team selection. It haunts me, watching Palace of late, that we offloaded McCarthy, a tiger who always gave 100% & who's leg brake was brought about trying to recover a lazy fuck up by Schneiderlein. 😡😡. I make a no apologies whatsoever for mentioning Macca!!!!!!
Paul A Smith
75 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:06:29
John 70 trust me there were no gangsters there mate. They were more civilised than some may have expected and I don't think they made any threats.

I have to be honest I find a protest long overdue and I am proud a group of very loyal followers (that is also 100% true) have gone to lengths like never before to ask the right questions.

Brian Wilkinson
76 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:06:29
To be fair though Steve, he had a point about the shit comment.
Christy Ring
77 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:06:48
I saw the Delph tweet, inexcusable, especially from a player, who was very poor, on Sunday, and who is only here since the summer. He was playing his first mersey derby, he is on bigger wages than he was at City, and has played as few matches, for us as he did for City.
Eric Paul
78 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:07:31
Does anyone know any of the fans who turned up at finch farm, did it actually happen?. I'm sure one of them would have been filming on his phone and it would have been on social media by now, I'm not on social media so I wouldn't know.
Ian Riley
79 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:08:29
Let's name and shame them. Let's hang them from the Albert Dock, drop them or sell them. Saturday we play Brighton and we must get 3 points. Football is a team sport and sadly eleven players failed to turn up. The outcry cannot move us away from the current situation and plight. Carlo has seen which players are not in his long-term plan but will have to trust them now and we have to.

The players have had their telling off from big Dunc and the fans. They are not beyond criticism but are allowed their opinion. We are not privy to what tactics or style was being implemented but with lack of heart and desire it doesn't matter but all were not working at all well.

Saturday brings another chapter!

Mal van Schaick
80 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:09:00
I'm sorry to say that if the players don't put a full shift in and they continue with mediocre performances, the fans will talk with their feet.

Perhaps then the board will listen to the fans.

We have no pace or quality in midfield. The defence we can work on and Richarlison and CL can gives us the goals.

It maybe get to 40pts and yet again rebuild.

Brian Wilkinson
81 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:09:21
If it goes tits up Saturday, after the game the fans should stay and chant your not fit to wear the shirt, then a chorus of there's only one Ancolotti, let them players know who we are blaming.
Jay Tee
82 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:11:11
Hope Ancellotti & Moshiri know who these players who can't play football are and turf them out. Must be something in their contract to say you have to be able to play football at a professional level.

Absolutely disgusting excuse for the sh*te we saw on Sunday.

John P McFarlane
83 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:13:17
Paul #75 Good to know. I don't want anyone purporting to represent the fan base, threatening the club staff, verbally or physically. As long as the meeting was mostly polite and respectful, I don't have an issue with people airing their views.
Rob Halligan
84 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:15:37
Paul 75, the lads at finch farm were, as you say, not "a firm" as John or I described it, simply a group of disillusioned fans. I don't expect "a firm" of lads to roll up at finch farm and kick the shite out of every player, more like, as you say, to launch a protest against them. If indeed, say 200 turned up, I'm sure there would be banners with certain players named on them, letting them know exactly how we feel about them. Who knows, these banners may already be getting prepared for Saturday?
Karl Meighan
85 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:18:35
Even if the tactics and game management was wrong, which I don't buy good players are able to see the problems and put things right.

Funny how its only ever poor teams who complain about tactics, there not playing netball were players can only occupy certain areas.

Football is a simple game creative players create, strikers strike and defenders spot danger read play and defend. Poor tactics is a excuse used by poor players in a struggling team.

Brent Stephens
86 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:19:25
Rob “who knows” about those banners!
Colin Glassar
87 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:20:43
Rob 57, does that mean the County Road Cutters are back in business?

These “protests” should've happened 20 years ago against the elephant in the room.

Rob Halligan
88 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:22:45
Not me, Brent, but you can almost certainly expect something on Saturday.
Rob Halligan
89 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:26:41
Haha, Colin, with their mates, Mr Stanley.
Colin Glassar
90 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:28:42
Never leave home without Stanley was their motto.
Steve Hogan
91 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:32:32

Three days after one of the worst moments in the club's history, and with no sign of the anger and outrage from fans subsiding, we have had no official comment from the club.

So today we have discovered that a group of fans turned up at Finch Farm in the last 24 hours to vent their feelings, and who can blame them? Couple that with (allegedly) Fabian Delph getting involved with fans on social media, it's been a bad couple of days for the club.

It seems everyone wants to put the boot in at the moment, particularly members of the national media, who can sense a bloodfest. Contrast then, the reaction from the club itself. While I understand the club cannot come out and name individual players — although virtually everyone connected with the club had real visible evidence as to those largely responsible for the disgraceful display — I feel once again, the club has totally underestimated the depth of feelings of the fans.

Our erstwhile Chairman, happy to steal the limelight when called upon, goes into hiding when another crisis looms. I decided to check out the senior management/directors bios on the club's official website, and guess whose stellar CV was the longest in length, nearly double in content of his peer group?

Wow, take a peek if you have time, such literary gems as "his goodbye from Coronation St, launched another stage of a brilliant career", then more about Bill's showbiz background, his company Bill Kenwright Productions, is now the 'most prolific production company in the world', not sure a certain Cameron Mackintosh would agree with that.

And finally, at last some football content, well a one-liner anyway, "Bill became Chairman in 2004, and 12 months later, Everton returned to European football after a 10 year-absence, when they qualified for the Champions League."

Nothing, unsurprisingly, about the club's 25 years plus wait for a trophy under the same regime, or the numerous and embarrassing failed ground moves, "Kirkby is the only option on the table, folks."

For a football-related bio, it was almost entirely devoted to Bill's theatrical career, and there lies the problem: weak leadership right at the very top of our organisation.

Could our Director of Marketing and Communications, Richard Kenyon, not have issued a statement after Sunday simply saying, 'We are as desperate as the fans to bring success to this football club, we are already looking at strengthening the squad for next season; we will continue to work alongside Carlo to achieve this goal'.

Instead, stony silence... nothing to give the long-suffering fans some re-assurance that the club is on the right tracks for the future.

Then we get to Denise Barrett-Baxendale, our day-to-day CEO, han-picked by Bill for a simple cosy internal appointment (we don't want to rock the boat with any outsiders). Another guilty member of the club's hierarchy who stands accused of 'total lack of leadership' skills, by doing simply nothing.

I don't have an agenda against Barrett-Baxendale, I've never met her, but prior to her appointment, should not the question have been asked, "Have we appointed the best CEO from a sports and football background available to us?"

Why must we appoint from within? It shows a real lack of professionalism, there had to be a whole host of brilliant candidates from the corporate sector.

The bios of most of the senior management team nearly all read 'a long time Evertonian' – quite frankly, I don't care if they have lived on Mars for the last 10 years, I want someone who's an industry leader, not someone who gives me a warm cosy feeling inside.

I've kind of digressed somewhat from my original point, but there is so much that is not right at Everton at the moment… until the 'old guard' are removed, we will continue to falter.

Andrew McLawrence
92 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:55:23
Apparently Scneiderlin was called out but said he wanted to hide just in front of the back four and didn't feel comfortable stepping forward. Pickford wasn't there as he was second jobbing as a distribution consultant with Parcelforce. Sigurdsson apparently vanished into thin air before appearing for 20 seconds to underhit a corner.
Tommy Carter
93 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:57:00
These fans must collectively have very understanding bosses to have been given a few hours off on a working day to head over to finch farm.

The players who took to the field the other day badly let our club down.


I'm disgusted by the behaviour of these ‘fans'.

What kind of word do we live in where a gang of idiots can turn up to a football club and threaten their way into a forum with one of the most powerful men within the organisation?

A disgrace. This is perhaps our lowest point.

Dermot O'Brien
94 Posted 08/01/2020 at 20:58:58
Kieran #61 Hahaha very good 😂 that's funny.
Nick Page
95 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:01:51
Steve #91. Well said, Sir. I remember posting something similar a few years ago and getting in trouble (probably due to my raging profanities). We will never move forward until Kenwright and his long list of pant-sniffing cronies are removed, forever. Everton is basically an old boys club with a charity attached, which cynically helps deflect from the real issues because of the goodwill it generates. I've heard all sorts goes on internally and none of it good. We can only dream of being run like a professional football club. I had hoped Moshiri would bring that revolution but he's been duped by Tiny Tears too.

Here's a quick reminder of how wonderful our self appointed saviour is from one of the best posts ever on TW. Enjoy

Joe Parkinson
96 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:06:16
So Tommy, I assume you don't approve of supporters venting their anger against those bunch of Spineless, Cowardly, Pathetic Gobshites that took this club to its lowest point in its History?
Well Mate, Hard Shit...
Long may it continue until they are hounded out of my club.
If you don't like it or approve, I and thousands of other really couldn't give a fuck...
Karl Meighan
97 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:07:36
I don't think they were idiots Tommy@93 just fans like most of us with more passion for the Club than any of the players they named have ever shown in are shirt.

The threats are probably the work of someone on twitter or facebook but just like everyone of us on here they deserved answers as to how players who earn fortunes struggle to do basics on a football pitch.

James Newcombe
98 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:11:00
Our players threw Martinez, Koeman and Silva under the proverbial bus. None of those managers were completely blameless, but nor were they inept. Some of our current squad were around for all three! It's about time the spotlight was put over them. But what can you do with disinterested footballers, in the era of Lingaard dancing tossers - who win or lose, are multimillionaires?
Kieran Kinsella
99 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:11:30
Joe Parkinson 96,

Are you The Joe Parkinson? Your comments sound a lot like what that Joe would probably say if these jokers were his team mates

John P McFarlane
100 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:17:49
Nick #95 I'll echo MKs response to the original article WOW. Also so many familiar names from 10 years ago that no longer post regularly
Steve Guy
101 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:18:45
Tommy (93). There was a sensible conversation with Brands. One of the group was on Talksport earlier and was vehement that no one threatened anyone...Brands listened and said he would pass on their comments...end of. They had every right to be there imo and it was shown by the hubris of the players still in denial that any of Sunday's debacle should be laid at their door. Don't believe what the red eyed media tell you
Joe Parkinson
102 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:19:51
I am sick to death of the attitude of players and some (the minority) of supporters at this club who like the players have No Fight, No Bottle, and their names end in Snowflake!!!
Stand up and be counted Blues, too much Charity and eitc for my liking...
This is Everton !!! Not Oxfam or Barnados, some people settle for second best !!
Just as well we had people with gumption, guts, and the will to win during the wars!!! Otherwise we would have no Everton to talk about
Tommy Carter
103 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:20:41
@ Joe and Karl

From what I've heard, threats were made to smash up players and their cars and threats of bringing 200 people to Finch Farm in order to do this. More than ‘venting anger'. If an incident like that occurs then it will be a national disgrace

If you think this is a way forward for or club then we are in worse trouble as a club and its support than I even imagined.

What ‘answers' do people want? Are players going to come out and say ‘I couldn't be arsed' or ‘I was shit scared of a teenager'. Of course they're not.

Brands doesn't need to come out and say that we've got recruitment of players wrong since 2016... everyone knows this already.

The response, which is what I personally am looking for, rather than an answer, will be evident in the results and performances in the next few games. Ancelotti deserves at least this much and not to have his players and staff threatened by a gang of reptiles.

Phillip Warrington
104 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:21:15
No-one at this club except the players born and bred in Liverpool get how degrading and damaging it is for the supporters of Everton to loose to a Liverpool team made up of reserve and youth players. The rest don't seem to get it.

Sigurdsson's comments are "Well, we're not happy we lost but we will try and rectify it." So, in other words, "Well, we lost 1-0, that's not too bad" and therein lies the problem: none of these over-paid middle-aged seniors are hungry for success.

They're getting paid well and, if they stay injury-free, they will have a nice nest-egg on retirement. The only way people running this club will get it is if the fans stay away until they do.

Brian Williams
105 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:23:18
Tommy, can you tell us (without naming names if necessary) where you heard these things?
Gavin Johnson
106 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:23:25
In some other professions you would be signing your own P45 by saying you're incapable of performing the duties asked of you. By projecting the blame back onto the managers tactics when he has won a sack full of titles and cups to their zero, apart from Delph, it's basically an admission that they aren't good enough for the task in hand. So there has to be a cull now, starting with Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott and Tosun.

Who's betting that this has all been leaked by management so the blame is now firmly going to be placed on the players. Kinda canny by Ancelotti and his staff if that's the case.

Chris Leyland
107 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:24:52
John (100) - was just reading it and thinking the same thing as I read some of the comments from posters who no longer seem to be on ToffeeWeb. I particularly enjoyed Doddy's first contribution on the thread which, even by his own standards, was particularly sycophantic and deluded.
Nick,(95), thanks for posting this. Colin was right in everything he said at that time and I say this as someone who didn't always agree with some of his other posts over the years. I wish more of us had listened to him and acted then as a decade later we seem to be further away for the success that we all crave.
John Hughes
108 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:29:33
Steve Hogan: “ Our erstwhile Chairman. ” Has soft lad gone then?

I don't know Barrett Baxendale either but I do know she should never have been appointed and seems to have no accountability whatsoever for anything that goes on in the Club/ business.

What a holy mess.

Nick Page
109 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:31:53
John #100 - every single person who considers themselves an Evertonian should read that ASAP. What is absolutely astonishing is how well it's withstood the test of time in that many things have changed but everything is still the same. And there's one constant.


Oliver Molloy
110 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:35:50
The appointment of Ancelotti is the final throw of the dice from Moshiri to get to the promised land and it has already gone pear shaped.
Rumours of dressing room unrest, fall outs between players and players and the club coaching staff and new manager are everywhere.

Who knows if Ancelotti is the answer, time will tell but I suspect he won't get the time due to pressure cooker that is Everton.
I for one would not be surprised if he walked away such is the poisoned chalice of managing our club.

Our owner knows fuck all about football, the chairman is past it and the director of football has been disappointing in player recruitment to say the least.
Every single Everton fan has the right to ask what the fuck is going on.
We have signed players from clubs WHO KNEW they weren't good enough for them and paid over the top in transfer fee's and wages.
We have no chance of getting any significant cash back for the likes of Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, Niasse.

Everton are a "nothing" football team and have been for the last 20 odd years, the result against our neighbours the other night proved that - a disgrace to the club, but why are we all surprised.

Everton have...
No leaders - cardinal sin in any football team.
No strikers.
Not one midfield creator.
Back four are a calamity waiting to happen every game.
Coaching, fitness and medical staff just not good enough.
No game plan between our academy and the first team.

We could all argue we have gone backwards since Moshiri bought the club, it just seems to be mistake after mistake - it has got to change from top to bottom.

Derek Knox
111 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:38:43
Rob @89& Colin @ 90, come on be sensible what are you going to do at Finch Farm with a Tape Measure and a Spirit Level? 🤔😋

Being serious though, I can understand the (almost) revolt that is going on, within the ranks, against (not all) underperforming millionaires, who basically don't give a toss about us, when things go pear-shaped.

They are cosseted by their lucrative contracts, and if they never played again (when are they going to start?) would they break sweat or be worried on our behalf?

I think NO, is the answer.

I totally admire people on ToffeeWeb for at long last standing up and realistically letting them know at source (Finch Farm) about who the REAL Everton are.

The only thing amidst all this, which I fear, is Carlo Ancelotti, may just walk away. At long last we have a man in charge, who is truly World Class, and he has come in to this shower of shite.

He doesn't deserve that, but neither do we the fans!

Let's hope there is an amicable out come to all this, starting with a win at home against Brighton.

Let's also hope that Mr Everton ( Blue Bill, is spit roasted, hung, drawn, quartered, pilloried and left in no uncertain terms that he is a persona non grata, at Everton Football Club!

Now what do I do with that bag of Everton Mints?

Ken Kneale
112 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:40:20
It would be interesting to update the Kenwright article to present day - then those who don't understand the loathing many of us have for what he has done to Everton FC may understand a bit more. The rot did not start with Moshiri for your information Oliver @110
Gavin Johnson
113 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:44:04
Oliver - things like that happen in dressing rooms all the time. Maybe you should go on YouTube and see a clip of Neil Warnock in action with the players after a game. Personally, I think the information that some of the players rejected Ferguson's criticism has been leaked by a member of Ancelotti's staff. This group of shysters have got several managers sacked. Now the spotlight is on the players and they have nowhere to hide. They can't blame the tactics of a manager who has won everything in football. They're either lazy and playing beneath themselves or they just aren't good enough.
Kunal Desai
114 Posted 08/01/2020 at 21:50:57
Half a dozen of these so called billy big bollocks players will end up the same way as Ashley Williams. All came to the club for one final payoff and now back to reality - on the scrap heap.
Tony Everan
115 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:02:33
With untold riches comes a constant entourage of sycophants. All are subservient, all bow when the chosen one passes. It's hard to take for such people and players when that bubble is burst by someone from the real world.

These players should shut the fuck up and take the criticism. It is deserved. Some senior players are playing well below their capability, they need to look at themselves and their mental and physical preparation and put it right.

Us fans are hurting and we ''are '' the club. Do not slag us off for caring, however it is articulated.

The players who feel unjustly singled out should answer critics on the pitch[ if they are lucky enough to be given another chance]. its the only way.

Anthony Murphy
116 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:03:51
Well at least everyone now has an excuse if it all goes tits up. Ancelloti - not my fault, I inherited a shit show. Moshiri - not my fault, I invested a fortune and brought in a world class manager. Kenwright - well I went and found a billionaire.

I can't believe only a few weeks ago we had turned a corner and now we've gone backwards. I just hope to god that we don't enter the last 4 or 5 games of the season still needing points for safety because this lot simply do not have the stomach

Denis Richardson
117 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:07:21
Fair play to Ferguson for ripping into the players. Losing to your arch rivals kids team is beyond a joke. All the players should have put their hands up to accept the result and especially manner of defeat as not good enough. For any to answer back just shows they are in complete denial and refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Decent senior pros should not be acting like that, we need a clear out and have done for years.

Unfortunately a lot of the rubbish or overpaid players as everyone knows are on large long term contracts. We simply can't give them away for love nor money. Even Niasse is still here and he was signed by Martinez! Thankfully his contract finally expires end of this season - 4.5 years earning 55k/week - on top of his £13m transfer fee. He'd have personally earned £13m in wages for his time here having done fk all. Thanks for that Roberto.

There are players still on loan like Sandro, Bolasie and Tarashaj, Besic before we even get to the likes of Tosun, Walcott, Schneidelein etc. We have about a dozen players on very high salaries who we can't get rid off and simply have to wait until most of their contracts run down. Seems as soon as Moshiri came in waving the cheque book all sense left the clubs transfer department.

Minor bonus, following players contracts run out in 6 months: Niasse, Stekelenburg, Martina, Tarashaj, Garbutt (yep he's also still here on £45k/week). Probably about £10m/year there. I'm guessing this will be the last contract any of these players ever have at a top flight club.

Sandro, Bolasie, Besic, Walcott, Schneiderlin all with us till June 2021...

Fingers crossed Ancellotti can bring in 2-3 quality players who also have the mental attitude to give it 100% every game.

Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:07:52
Oliver 110, Moshiri has been here four years, Kenwrightwell over twenty years, as a director and chairman,read Steve (91) and I would second Ken (112) that the Kenwright article to be repeated ( was it the one by Patrick Murphy ? )

By the way Oliver(110), a good proportion of your post was very true.

Ian Edwards
119 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:12:00
I appreciate he has only just arrived but Ancelotti should take a lot of criticism for the defeat. He selected Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson in centre mid. He also failed to stop the attempts to play out from the back in the 2nd half which didnt work and saw us penned in. He should have told the team to move upfield and go longer to get possession in Liverpool's half. The team selection and tactics were rank.
Tony Williams
120 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:13:51
In my opinion three at the back just doesn't work.
Stan Schofield
121 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:15:54
Anthony@116: As you say, only a few weeks ago it was all rosy on here.

I recall the game against Chelsea under Big Dunc. The whole team got accolades, many people saying it was hard to choose a MOTM. I recall one game where many people said we'd finally discovered that Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson could operate very successfully together in the same team. Then, first two games under Ancelotti, positive outcomes and very positive responses from the supporters. Even the Man City game had positives.

Then the FA Cup Derby, ironically a competition that the big teams don't seem to take as seriously these days, the shit hits the fan big time. Even though the FA Cup is renowned for 'upsets'.

There's an old saying, which I believe a lot of people would do well to follow, especially with the world class manager we now have: Keep calm and carry on.

James Lauwervine
122 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:18:43
Well I agree with you Tommy-93, and half the posts on this thread are as embarrassing as the defeat itself.
I lay considerable blame at Ancelotti's door for Sunday. DF had these same players fighting and passionate a few weeks back, but yet it's all the players' fault that they were shite on Sunday. Yes, they were shite, they should undoubtedly take blame for a terrible performance, but I can't see how Ancelotti gets off the hook at all. Throwing your arms up in the air at every backpass and then giving a half-time team talk that had an even more negative effect on the players is not good management.
Phil Bellis
123 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:26:21
Never mind the siren, don't play Z Cars...step on the field to silent tannoy, counter productive?
Stan Schofield
124 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:32:17
Phil@123: Yes, counter productive. Z Cars has always been played, and always should be played.
Robert Tressell
125 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:33:26
The good news is that by summer 2021 FFP might actually allow us to buy some new players, having shifted the shite out on free transfers. Only 18 months to go. Ancelotti did say we'd need to be patient.
Jerome Shields
126 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:34:05
Paul #75

Glad to hear that. I think the fans where right to go to Finch Farm and Brands was right to come out to speak to them. It is right and sufficient to exchange views, without threats. I am confident that these fans conducted themselves correctly and got their message across.

We all have to be careful of mischief making and a few bad eggs jumping on the bandwagon.

I have never as a fan since the 1960s seen such a outburst from Everton fans. But it just shows how far the Internal Management and a lot of the players are out of sync with, what is required and acceptable as the correct conduct and performance effort required at a Premier League side.

They are in some proverbial Dreamland and need to wake up fast if they are to go anyway towards placating the Everton Fans. I also think that that second half has unleashed a pent up frustration build over the pass 20 years. Those players who showed their true colours and think they can get away with it , will regret their stupid arrogance inspired by a false security of contract.

Goodison on Saturday and for some time come, is going to be a unforgiving place.

Colin Malone
127 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:36:31
Big Dunc did very well, stepping in as coach during the pursuit of Carlo but does he merit being Assistant Manager instead of taking a back seat and learning? Did Carlo want him as his assistant?

In my opinion, the answers are no and no. Just like the setup in the academy, Kenwright putting his two penneth worth in.

John P McFarlane
128 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:40:52
One of the group has been on Talksport saying there were no threats made to any staff or players, that they didn't release the details on any of the social media platforms and that they didn't release any information about the 'protest' to the Times. Which begs the question who exactly is feeding the press with the details of dressing room bust-ups, fans protests etc etc and perhaps more importantly why?
Joe Parkinson
129 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:42:53
So some people on here blame Ancelotti ?
Mmmmmmm that's like saying to Anthony Joshua why did you lose to that Featherweight? and his reply being, but my Manager didn't tell me to hit him back !!
Fuck me !! It's not Rocket Science, there is a ball, a net, 11 players verses 11 Children, and the Children Win.
Some people amaze me.
And we wonder why our Club is descending into the depths when we have some Embarrassing comments from so called supporters.
Oh Well, off to the land of dreams where we win the league and Siguardsson is named Europes player of the decade and just pips Schneiderlin to the trophy.
Nite ToffeeWebers, sweet Dreams.
Tony Abrahams
130 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:43:49
Why would proper genuine Evertonians turn up at finch-farm, and then video it Eric?

These sound like people who are not interested in anything but the best interests of Everton FC, and that's why I'd find it hard for them to make threats like the ones mentioned in the txt Rob received today.

Winning the next five games won't make up for Sunday, although it might help, but if it helps to get rid of certain players, then that would be a much better result in the long term.

Phil Bellis
131 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:47:14
Not always Stan but I know what you mean part of my growing up and means so much but white hankies and whatever else has been suggested? Never felt so low about an Everton team's performance and by God there's been some lowlights over the years
Chris Corn
132 Posted 08/01/2020 at 22:53:35
This story of 'firms' and 'threats' etc, is utter bollocks. If that was true then they have threatened to cause major disorder and damage at a major premier league club and the police would have had to have get involved as it is a matter of national public interest. The supporters would not have got over the door at FF to speak with Brands and would have been locked up.

I have also seen this 'text' doing the rounds and it is clearly someone who has embellished the truth and circulated it on the internet and people are taking it as gospel.

The story about revolting against Ancellottis tactics is twisted as well. It was Ferguson who allegedly blocked them and between them they'd taken 11 points out the last 18 so where did this notion of bad football suddenly come from? Ferguson was a hero three games ago. There are a number of player who are simply a gang of shithouses who are stealing oxygen never mind a living.

Christy Ring
133 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:00:22
The players have to stand up and be counted, their lack of effort, ( I wouldn't use the word performance, anything but ), on Sunday, was an insult to EFC/ NSNO, and to the supporters, and the criticism is totally deserved. Sigurdsson, using the word " DISAPPOINTING ", and Delph, who has only played a handful of matches, and only here a wet week, having a spat on social media, instead of keeping their head down, and feeling ashamed, shows what little passion and pride, they have for the club, and don't deserve to wear the jersey again. Dunc told them the truth, and they should have been man enough, to put their hands up.
As for Ancelotti, it's early days, but he knows now, that he made a mistake, playing S&S in midfield, I said it, as did others, before Sunday, he should have used Dunc's long ball tactics, and started Holgate & Davies in midfield. Saturday is a massive day going forward.

Tony Abrahams
134 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:00:31
I wonder if Kenwright will be fit enough for the AGM next week?
Peter Laing
135 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:12:29
As much as Sunday was chastening it was also a watershed moment. Over the past 5 years we have turned from one culdesac into another, too many negative days and moments that should also have served to be watersheds in their own right. We are now onto our fourth Manager since Martinez was relieved of his duties and the signings of the Walsh / Koeman era and Allardyce have come back to bite Everton hard. These tranche of players have lacked the morale fibre to take on collective responsibility. The renewal starts on Saturday and it should be minus those players that have failed so often and so consistently. Several should never play for the Club again, their lack of respect shows that there is no way back. Into the trenches we go, only those prepared for the fight should be selected.
Don Alexander
136 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:15:46
Whatever did or didn't happen outside FF the players need to illustrate their total disgust about the tactics or accept they are all piss-taking charlatans.

Delph (to whom I have no allegiance) will like any sentient footballer know that Ferguson laying into them for lack of professional pride is really, really taking the biscuit for hypocrisy. The bloke as a mega-paid player endlessly took the piss out of the fans of every club he played for. He was beyond a joke, the very, very occasional match aside when he decided he'd deign us with actual effort. People like Delph will know this.

That's his history in a nutshell as a player, according to many inside the game who worked with him. He's a charlatan, as is the self-serving grubster who employed him and continues to "serve" as our chairman.

We need to be rid of all the charlatans.

Bill Watson
137 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:17:32
John #108

I don't know Denise Barre-Baxendale, either. For that reason I can't pass an opinion on her capability, particularly as she hasn't long been in the job.

All I would say is I would have expected her to issue some sort of statement about Sunday's debacle.

Andrew Dempsey
140 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:18:20
Ancelotti, deary me. It's such folly.
The players already don't trust his set up and tactics.
He'll be gone by the end of the season, this whole set-up is an absolute disaster waiting to happen.
Duncan Ferguson was the right appointment (to the end of the season) to deal with this bunch of underperforming Knob-jobs.
Peter Warren
141 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:19:48
Can't understand fans blaming Ancelotti. He picked Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson against a bunch of kids. Literally 16-19 year olds.

I only watched first half, thank goodness I was traveling second half. No idea how bad we were that half (I thought we were bad enough first half!) I'm just shell-shocked - Walcott getting loads of stick - I actually thought he and Pickford were good first half (nobody else was).

Not just the two players above at fault; Holgate, Digne & Coleman were unbelievable bad at back, Mina was poor too. Richarlison didn't seem to be able to get in game, Sidibe was like Sidibe always is.

Anyway I haven't slept since Sunday – as I say, in shock. Literally don't know where we go from
here, I'm so down and in shock.

As for Ancelotti throwing towel in, don't be daft – he's been employed to sort this mess out, very experienced manager and being paid handsomely. I fully expect him to sort out this shower of shite who are supposed to be a team

Mike Corcoran
142 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:22:22
It says something when an almost forgotten young centre half on a fraction of Schneiderlin's and Delph's wages appears to be the only option in midfield in front of the back four and is one of the only players on the pitch who actually displays some steel, pace, skill and gives his all. That's auto correct on Delph above but it might just sum him up, crumbling former glory now only fit for the skanks.
Paul Tran
143 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:24:59
A lot of good could come out of this. It could be the beginning of a large boil that's been hanging around a few years getting lanced.

Ancelotti now knows he can't trust at least some of the 'senior' players to take responsibility when it matters.

Somebody at the club cares enough to get this out in the open.

The fact that Ancelotti's here may force the board to take notice of what's been going on and back him. By that I don't mean money, I mean supporting him in dealing with these 'senior' players.

It's coming to a head. It's an opportunity to change the club's mindset. We have to be decisive and take it.

The other good thing is that someone on Twitter described Delph as Guardiola's Alan Harper. An insult to our much-loved utility man, but it made me laugh.

Brian Wilkinson
144 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:38:53
You could not make this up, latest rumour is we are chasing a striker called Immobile! This has to be a wind up after that stroll in the park last week.
Mike Gaynes
145 Posted 08/01/2020 at 23:50:38
Brian #144, for all the hilarity of his name, Immobile is one of the most productive and hardworking strikers in the world.

Last time I checked he was goal-a-game this season in Serie A for Lazio. No way in hell they would sell him.

Brian Wilkinson
146 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:06:18
Thought we already had half of a team called Immobile, no way will we land this player.
Eric Paul
147 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:06:39
Because that's what people do, Tony.
Mike Gaynes
148 Posted 08/01/2020 at 00:06:49
John #70 and Rob #71, thank you. This Yank was not at all familiar with that term. I can't speak for Terry, who is a Merseysider but has lived in the US for a very long time.
Jim Harrison
149 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:13:10
I don't think the players have grounds to be upset with the criticism. Not being able to pass to a team mate is no ones fault but their own
Steve Ferns
150 Posted 08/01/2020 at 00:13:17
I find the criticism of Ancelotti baffling. It only makes sense if you side with the players. In order for Ancelotti's tactics to be wrong, then the players need to have executed them. If you believe that the players were at fault, then you are agreeing that they did not execute the tactics, so if they did not execute the tactics, how can you know the tactics were bad?

Did Ancelotti stand on the side-lines applauding his players for doing what he wanted? No he was going mad. Why was he going mad? Surely because the players were not doing what he wanted them to do.

To use an example our beloved chairman can relate to, it's like the Director of a play. He can tell the actors how he wants the lines delivered, the way he wants the play performed, and other touches, but ultimately it's for the actors to deliver the lines, and they can deliver them in a way that the director did not want them to. They can perform so badly that he looks a terrible director.

This quote is very evident: "It's hard for individuals to help the team as they cannot keep the ball and play three or four passes to each other. They are playing bad football."

We see Coleman play to Mina, then to Holgate and then onto Digne. The ball is almost stopped each time it reaches the recipient. The action takes an age to get from one side of the pitch to the other. Absolutely no one coaches a team to do this. Sure, switch the play and if your players are not good enough to do it in one pass, then play it one-by-one, but zip the ball along. This is a good tactic against Liverpool. If you pass like Barcelona, quickly, side to side, you tire the opponent out, because we all know Liverpool like to press aggressively. They cannot keep doing this If you simply knock it around. But the ball has to stay in constant motion and it has to be hit firmly into feet, and the recipient needs to move, not wait for the ball. This is the easiest way to beat the press and retain the ball, because you should be able to find an angle to pass into midfield or attack.

The thing about 3 or 4 passes is that once we get into midfield, it was often Sigurdsson with his back to goal and he simply went backwards. He hit more passes to Pickford than to Walcott, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin combined. That tells you everything. This is a guy who can turn James Maddison and take a touch and score from 30 yards. Yet, he cannot receive the ball back to goal and turn an attacker and find a pass? Sigurdsson has plenty of space in these various moments and should be aware of what is around him and where he can turn to, and who he can pass to. Gomes does it all the time.

The players were scared and played like cowards. As for the fans confronting Brands, I note it is widely reported to be amicable. I would bet that they all appreciate Brands doing it. Surely though, having happened the day after the game, the fans would have known the players would not be reporting for training?

Mike Gaynes
151 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:15:45
John P #100, out of curiosity I pulled up that original article Nick referenced as well, and you're right, it's striking how many of the old-timers who responded to it are no longer on TW. Many have been gone for years. One I miss is Gavin Ramejkis, one of the most concisely entertaining posters at that time.
Gordon Adie
152 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:19:10
Don Alexander 136, how can you implicate Duncan Ferguson? I think your hatred of the man has blinded you to the reality of the present debacle. Get a grip man, to defend an absolute wanker like Delph, a man who calls out his fellow players while being every bit as shite as them.
Jim Wilson
153 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:26:44
The madness that has gone on at Everton since we beat City 4-0 is what caused the Sunday farce and all the other disasters.
We had a decent team 3 years ago and then we constantly threw millions away on loads of ridiculous signings, most of which excited people on here at the time and now we are where we are today.
And the worrying thing is there are signs that the madness will continue.
The one thing the team needs more than anything is a leader who can boss the midfield. Add a goalscorer and leave it at that.
Simon Dalzell
154 Posted 09/01/2020 at 00:51:54
Steve # 150. Do you not think the manager should take some blame ? Leaving the two statues together in midfield for an hour and then only replacing one with another old slug ? They got the run around from the kick off despite the chances in the first half. My blood was boiling. Surely Davies should have come on early ( He should have started ) or even Holgate moved to midfield.
Andrew Dempsey
155 Posted 09/01/2020 at 01:10:20
Ancelotti is no where near up to this job.
It's a heartbreaking state of affairs. It's not his fault, and it doesn't mean he isn't and wasn't a great manager.
He's not the right manager, right now, for us. The one thing he may bring of value, and this has to go exceedingly well, is signing 4 or 5 brilliant players.
If he can pull that off with Brands, then he'll have served his purpose.
Big Dunc will hopefully take over a squad that's been trimmed of most of the dross, with a couple of superstar players added.

Yes, I don't think Ancelotti is beyond blame for Sunday. He's the manager. The only thing he seems to have changed from Duncan's approach is removing the intensity, and making us slow and predictable in our build up play.
This is not an I told you so, this is just the way Ancelotti likes to play at a default level it seems, he doesn't think it's ‘playing football' to hit a direct ball to the centre forward.
He is basically the exact wrong profile of coach/manager we need right now.
It not his fault. It's the pure ego and naivety of our owner, Moshiri.
I know, Ferguson didn't want the permanent gig. But, I'm sure he could have been convinced to do it until May.
And I'm convinced he would have grown in confidence within the role.
We need a motivator, an absolute lunatic, who understands what it's like to underperform as a player for Everton.
Who has a point to prove. Who will take absolutely no shit.
We don't need a laissez-faire, cosmopolitan, aristocrat of the game.
It's just not the right fit. He'll get nothing out of these players.

We may be at a turning point, if we can move a good proportion of our utter shite out the door, and bring in 6 or 7 good ones... This all has to happen miraculously quickly though, and all the new players have to settle and be brilliant, and Carlo has to be given time to mould his new team into playing possession-based, slick football without him losing the crowd and people getting generally miffed off.

Is any of this going to happen?
That Christmas buzz feels like a long time ago

Steve Ferns
156 Posted 09/01/2020 at 01:28:39
Simon, Davies is injured and his knee is heavily strapped. We have no one else. Even Beni Baningime is injured. We have 8 central midfielders and only Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Delph are fit.
Gavin Johnson
157 Posted 09/01/2020 at 01:41:14
After only 4 games and winning two of them how can people say that Ancelotti is the wrong man?! It's truly bizarre! I get that people might think that Ferguson would have been a better appointment, because he instilled high intensity. That's all well and good but the players wouldn't be able to keep those levels up for a whole season. We saw that in the dreadful 0-0 against Arsenal. They were all knackered after the Leicester game in midweek.

You'd also like to think that the players would give respect to someone like Ferguson, but judging on how some of them deflected blame. I doubt they respect anyone and they'll blame tactics, no matter who's coaching them.

Don Alexander, do as Gordon Adie says and get a grip man! Even if you dislike Duncan Ferguson you should be thankful for the job he did as caretaker manager. Who are you to call him a charlatan?! The big mans a highly qualified coach who more than proved his worth. Playing Holgate in midfield was a masterstroke, as was being brave enough to completely change the teams formation to a 4-4-2.

Derek Thomas
158 Posted 09/01/2020 at 01:46:37
The solution is 'Gardening Leave'. Players have these 'cast iron' (until it's in their favour to break it) contracts, aka, you basically have to pay them anyway.

2, 3, 4, 5, of them, whatever it takes to encourage les autres. Send them home, leave them at home, no need to come to Finch Farm or Goodison. Actually dig your garden for all we care, the cheque will still be in the we have a choice not to pay you.

But we do have a choice not to look at your money grabbing grids - fuck off...still here? Release the hounds.

Steve Ferns
159 Posted 09/01/2020 at 01:56:18
There was a stat that Duncan Ferguson's Everton conceded more chances in three games than Silva's Everton did in the previous 15. Surely this would concern you over the long term because conceding so many chances means the goals will start to be conceded and games would be lost. Ferguson is not ready. He can learn from Ancelotti and can use his motivational skills to get more from the players.

Regardless. Ancelotti is here now. He's our man for the long term and we need to back him.

Gavin Johnson
160 Posted 09/01/2020 at 02:06:37
I agree Steve. I can't believe people are already saying he's the wrong man for the job. While he's culpable for playing for playing the two lazy twats in midfield on Sunday that's mistake isn't enough for people to be wanting him gone already.

As you say we need to back Ancelotti and having Ferguson learning and working closely beside him. it should make it very easy to appoint him when Carlo eventually leaves.

Nigel Gregson
161 Posted 09/01/2020 at 02:46:57
why don't we just recall Besic, we need a passionate terrier in the midfield instead of supposedly skilled primadonnas. His current team / fans like him and the loans a success by all accounts.
Danny Broderick
162 Posted 09/01/2020 at 03:10:29
Anyone saying Ancelloti picked the wrong team is missing the point. If he can't pick Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin in midfield against a depleted team, when can he play them? And how will he ever find out about them if he doesn't play them? They did cost a combined £70 million by the way!

Any team we picked should have been able to perform much better than we actually did. It's the players who have got the last 4/5 managers sacked. It's only right the spotlight is on the players this time. It is the players who have let us all down.

Lester Yip
163 Posted 09/01/2020 at 03:21:03
Steve #159, not suggesting Duncan is ready for the job. Just pointing out the 3 games he in charge were against Chelsea, Arsenal and ManU. The sample is too small for a meaningful comparison.

Gavin Johnson
164 Posted 09/01/2020 at 03:31:48
Nigel, I'm surprised that Besic's loan at Sheffield United has been a success, I didn't even think he was making it into the starting line up there.
Bob Parrington
165 Posted 09/01/2020 at 04:51:44
Blaming Ancelotti is way over the top of sense. Any manager coming in to this farce of dysfunctional group of players needs time to weed out the worthwhile hub and so which players to tell to F. O.

He's probably seen just about enough now to give him a good idea of where to start. How anybody on here can expect immediate complete success baffles me.

He will put together a strategy with others on board and work towards that plan. If some players or staff want to work against the plan - they get no game time. Come to think of it, UK contractual law must "surely" have a right of dismissal - forced sale - to get rid of those white-anting the process???? If not. the UK employment law must need an overhaul.

Phil Smith
166 Posted 09/01/2020 at 04:58:00
Comesth the hour, cometh the man! Time for a recall of a player who gives 100% commitment Niasse! #recalloumar
Jim Harrison
167 Posted 09/01/2020 at 05:07:34
Lester 163

Duncs spell was a fairy tale ride, all excitement and high energy. But there is only so long that can last. Inevitably the high would come down. We have nothing to point to that suggests that beyond geeing the lads up for a few games he has the tactical knowledge to be successful in the longer term

Carlo has a track record second to none, but he won't have often worked with players if this level. It has been said before that he doesn't coach a great amount in terms of fitness, because he takes it as a given that players understand their responsibility. It would seem that there is a Disparity between how he sees things and how some of the senior players see things as they blame the set up. I am minded to agree with the coach, as the set up didn't make them miss passes and show terrible ball control.
If I were Siggy or Morgan or Walcott and I watched that game back again I would be ashamed to see how poorly my footballing ability compared to those young lads. Or even lallana, a player who has been out injured and doesn't feature often. He looked comfortable in possession and string on the ball

Time will tell regarding Carlo. But he has to get time to see if he can do the job

Time has to be called on our senior players who don't understand that they are being scrutinised on the back of their own performances as individuals. We are not so dumb that we are unable to see a formation that doesn't work, but in this case, the tactic and formation is harder to judge, as the execution of basics was so poor.
Nothing wrong with passing out from the back, we have 2 ex Barca players, one World Cup medal holding right back, one right back who has been played under Bobby and Silva who both played out and a young defender who is credited as being good on the ball. Pickford has long been lauded for his footwork. There is no reason to not be able way.

Alan J Thompson
168 Posted 09/01/2020 at 06:00:22
Was Duncan Ferguson making these comments to the players at Mr Ancellotti's request and if not, where was Mr Ancellotti at the time?
I'm not saying it was wrong but I'd have thought it should have come from the Top Man.

And I can't condone these comments which some think may be humorous about firms. gangs, cutters and knives. It is not that long ago that a young child was shot and killed by such people who have no place in any civilized community.

Mike Kehoe
169 Posted 09/01/2020 at 06:02:13
Message to Mr Brands
I have an ikea coffee table, in beech I think, that I am selling. It's a bit scuffed and has cup ring in the middle but it probably has more energy and presence in midfield than the fuckin useless ‘disappointed' deadwood that disgraced the shirt on Sunday.
Ray Robinson
170 Posted 09/01/2020 at 06:17:57
Steve #159. And which stats would they be? I just don't believe them. How many chances did we concede against Arsenal? One maybe when Pickford saved from close range. That 0-0 draw was devoid of chances, so the statement is clearly nonsense. You seem desperate at times to justify your nailing your colours to the Silva mast. I agree that Ferguson is not ready yet but your arguments are normally far more persuasive than that!
Paul A Smith
171 Posted 09/01/2020 at 06:31:55
Some of the "gossip" about what the fans did and didn't do on here is horrible.

It goes to show how far gossip goes for a lot of people and hard evidence means nothing. We see it in all the talk about the club, pure Kenwright gossip or "my source said".

This gossip and guessing and judging shows you would rather side with Directors of football with no affinity to the club and players that stroll around v Kids rather than back Evertonians that Really care about the team and the club.

The gossips are shameless not the fans asking questions.

Colin Glassar
172 Posted 09/01/2020 at 07:17:27
Just read in the Daily Mirror the wages this lot are paid. It's absolutely scandalous. No wonder they don't want to leave Goodison.
Filipe Torres
173 Posted 08/01/2020 at 09:08:38
Who the f.. are they? They would never became a top manager themselves.
How can they know as much as the manager? have they ever set up a starting eleven? have they ever coached a football team? Dealt with players? Look for tactis and system that fit to them players? How can they even know?
Chris Mason
174 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:09:02
The club is a shambles and we're shown up by the RS because the RS have run their business properly. That comment on here about George Graham is about right but it also smacks of Moyesism.

We have to back the manager and his coaches, we can't really back the players but the sniping and hostility will take GP back to booing and negativity. And that will see us back in the shit.

The players don't give a toss what happens to Everton. They're filthy rich and will look forward to a nice pay check regardless.

I don't advocate playing the kids - that would be a complete disaster.

I back good man managers to bring the team together and heal their differences. What would you and your work team do if it all went pear shaped? What would you expect your boss to do? Unite them on something, anything, to turn that problem around.

Like they say, when the shit hits the fan, stop throwing shit. It's disgusting.

Jerome Shields
175 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:15:47
I am shocked if it is true that Delph is on higher wages than at Man City. I can't see Brands being behind it smacks of interference from higher up as the saga of Zaha, Rojo and Snelling did.
Jay Evans
176 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:26:43
Loving the passion on this thread. I wish the players gave a toss as much as we do.

Paul A Smith
Tony Marsh
Jay Wood
John P MacFarlane
Steve Ferns
Darren Hind

That is the spine of my team for Saturday.
I would like a free role behind the front two please, Le Tissier style.

Let's all stick together and back the manager and his staff. After Sunday's debacle, we can't go any lower so let's be part of a positive blue future.

Onward Evertonians. 💙

Paul A Smith
177 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:27:42
I can't help laughing when someone believes quoted figures from some non investigative journalist.

I am quite confident we all know they make more than a tradesman, doctor, nurse, fireman, so why the suprise?

As if anyone lets the newspaper know the true figure. People scare me.

Brian Harrison
178 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:33:11
I cant verify these figures but somebody posted them on twitter yesterday.

Sigurdsson £45m - £110 p/w
Pickford £30m - £75 p/w
Bolasie £27.5m - £50 p/w
Keane £ 25m - £60 p/w
Schneiderlin £ 24m - £110 p/w
Tosun £20m - £70 p/w
Walcott £20m - £90 p/w
Sandro £5m - £100 p/w

Andrew Ellams
179 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:33:13
Steve, one of those last 15 Silva matches was the 5-2 Anfield disaster and as Ray points out Arsenal had 1 chance at Goodison so not sure how those stats balance out.
Martin Mason
180 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:41:32
This is really the end, players, management and fans at each other's throats. Delph is correct too, the problem is the players can't play the way that Ancelotti wants them to against a fit young team that will press them back like Liverpool did.
Steve Brown
181 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:41:41
My thoughts on this:

1) Did Ancelotti play the wrong tactics or did the players ignore the tactics when they lost composure? - I am sure that Carlo told the defence to play a deep line as this is essential against Liverpool. As Steve F @ 150 explains, I doubt he instructed the defence to play diagional passes along the back line or short passes into a pressured and under-paced midfield. That was an innovation our hopeless squad came up with all by themselves and why he was exploding on the touch-line

2) Is Ancelotti definitely the wrong man for the job already? - I know it is un-nerving to us Evertonians to actually have a top manager in post who has won more as a player and manager than we have as a club, but given that he has been in the role for 19 DAYS we might want to with-hold judgement a bit longer. He probably hasn't even unpacked his favourite mug and the picture of his wife yet.

3) Did our fabled "Everton 7 Fans" threaten to get a firm down to 'get into the the players and their cars will be smashed in'? Probably the tale got embellished in the retelling over a few pints. Fair play to the fans for wanting to go down there and get their point across, as until we do the club will never listen.

Steve Ferns
182 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:44:45
Sure Ray, I just invented to stats because if I can persuade you that it was all alright with Silva, then I can put a call into Farad Moshiri and get Silva back in.

The reason you might not want to believe the facts is that you probably don't consider many of the chances against Everton under Ferguson to be chances. I don't want to be critical of Ferguson. He was a novice in his first spell as manager in the most difficult of circumstances and to that end he did a great job. There was no way he should have been considered a candidate for the long term though, and we are un much safer hands with Ancelotti and Ferguson is well placed now to learn from him, so let's hope he is a sponge and soaks up all that know-how.

Derek Knox
183 Posted 09/01/2020 at 09:46:43
Brian @178, I think with those sort of figures they would be eligible for Housing Benefit!

Me thinks you have left a 'K' out of each one. 😭

Dave Trickey
185 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:10:35
I have two thoughts for the immediate future.

1. The best case scenario, is the result (or lack thereof) against Liverpool youth and the fan backlash thereafter, stings their professional pride and they come storming out against Brighton and run them off the pitch...I'm not holding out much hope for this.

2. My worry is, that a sub-sect of senior players are going to persist with the 'it's the tactics not us' line, then they can' put in a performance against Brighton, for fear of disproving their own statement.

In this case what does Ancelotti do? The ideal scenario would be to drop (permanently) Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Delph etc, and temporarily drop Digne (for a kick up the ass). Unfortunately we just don't have the strength in depth to do this.

We have to hope that the strength of will of Ancelotti, combined with backing from the board (on the basis that they must believe he is the way forward), overcomes the strength of will of the poison apples.

It is certainly an interesting time.

Chris Mason
186 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:10:42
Martin - Ancelotti has had no time to really work with the players, so we can't tell if his methods aren't effective. He's not a magician. It will take at least 6 months to change course.
Steve Ferns
187 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:12:16
It was reported in the local press in Birmingham and again in the Portugese press that Yannick Bolasie is on £70,000 per week at Everton. Sporting have a £4m purchase option. He's actually done ok in Lisbon, but not good enough for them to justify those wages as he is on triple what most of his teammates are on and is far from the best player. He also got sent off, comically, in his last game. Link
Chris Mason
188 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:17:16
I think the focus on how much players earn is not quite right. Can't blame them for taking the money.

All those players listed above. Are they all yard dogs? Isn't it something more about the culture (or lack thereof) among the first team? I can't help but think it is. Plenty of bang average players do very well for themselves in football land, and some of those players are at excellent clubs. We seem to have an unerring talent for over paying for bang average players and making them worse.

I'd still back Ancelotti and his merry men to fix this.

And fair play to Brands for staring down the baying mob, flaming forces, pitch forks and all.

Paul A Smith
189 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:21:55
Who is arsed what they are on? Seriously there is some bad anorak shite going on here.

The Birmingham post wow, portugese press oh my word how do they know. Not even the Echo or the Post or something local know the true figures and somehow Bolasie and his agent told the Brummies how much he gets.

He has played in Bristol, London, Liverpool and Belgium but lets join in with Briminghams gossip.

What is happening to Evertonians and all this obsession. There is players from Martinez reign still here, if you know someone has a long term contract but isn't playing, he is a problem, regardless of guessed figures.

You lot still got Harry Kane on 90k like the press? The Athletic is now gospel to a few its outrageous.
No evidence, blag quotes and people are promoting it as gospel.

I want the old down to earth Everton back and its never happening is it? Social media, gossip and rumour are fans passion now.

Tony Abrahams
190 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:22:47
I know Eric, I knew before I asked you the question mate, but it's not something everybody does though. Maybe I'm wrong but i'd bet the people who turned-up at FF, would have been sensible people, who came before this new modern phenomenon, and have only got the interests of Everton at heart, and were not there thinking they should get a phone out, which have made them just look fucking stupid, because they seem to have had a much bigger agenda on their minds.

Mike Gaynes
191 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:23:28
Brian #178, per Spotrac (the best source I know for this information), Siggy, Picks, Walcott and Schneids are all on £100k per week, with Tosun and Keane both at £60k.
Steve Ferns
192 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:32:21
Paul, why are you not arsed if your club paying £500,000 each week on five players who should not be in the team, and such wages mean we are stuck with these players and cannot move on? The thing is lots of us all were upset of the proposed wages of Sigurdsson well in advance of him coming in. When we play Brighton on Saturday, one or two of Sigurdsson, Delph and Schniederlin will be in the side. The wages you are not arsed about is preventing us from getting rid of them, and guess what, they will all probably be here, and still in the team, next season.
Clive Rogers
193 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:37:53
It wasn't the tactics that were wrong. It was the players that weren't good enough to implement them. Tactics come through the centre mid players mainly and Siggy and Shneids are to old, slow and just not good enough to play through. Ancelloti knows that now and will be looking to replace them.
Chris Mason
194 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:38:40
It's the club that is responsible for signing these players and spewing millions on them. The club needs to change how it does its business, and that is the reason why we are hamstrung by FFP. Not whether any random lucky boy earns 𧴜k per week.
Paul A Smith
195 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:44:40
Because there is nothing we can do Steve, plus I have no evidence of the truth like yourself and when they are playing well they get the same money and you don't say a word.

You are obsessed with figures like Rainman. Promoting the Athletics words, talking the Esk up. Greg O'Keefe said. Like players tell Greg O'Keefe what they get?

I was bothered in the first place Steve. If you had the time to take in other posts in the first place you would have seen I said a waste of money for all these names you are talking about. Did you want to listen then? No. Happy to believe Walsh was some genius scout.

Its been you and others that have to wait 18 months to 2 years before you realise the player isn't up to it or what you thought and now he is on too much money. How pro active.

And then to back your overdue theory once these abilities dawn on you, you back yourself up with The Atheltic. What a joke. If you had the eyes to spot this when we sign them you wouldn't be beating yourself with anger at the wages laid out now.

You were all for Steve Walsh though wasn't you? See I knew and a few others did too, that if Schneiderlin wasn't good enough for Man Uniteds bench hes not good enough for us. That took ages to dawn on many and the same for Sigurdsson.

The man failed at Spurs 6 years ago and it was obvious if he came from Swansea to Everton for a big fee, we were getting ripped off.

I couldn't care who doesnt like the truth (and I took enough stick for these same points) but at least I had the balls to look at these expert decisons when they happen.

Geoffrey Williams
196 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:53:26
Everton is a poorly managed club and has been for many many years. Player recruitment under Moshiri is a joke. The inflated transfer fees and excessive wages being paid out really do put the future of the club at risk as multimillionaires such as Moshiri don't put their own money on the line, all the debt is loaded onto the club.
The lack of due diligence when it comes to transfers is unbelievable. No one who is a serious observer of football would be surprised at the failure of the likes of Schneiderlin, Walcott and Delph. I suspect the foreign players were bought based on the viewing of YouTube clips and videos provided by agents not through old fashion scouting involving several live observations.
I wish I could say Ancelloti will be our messiah but he isn't. He has a reputation as having an easy going manager with training lacking in rigour and intensity, he is the antithesis of the likes of Klopp and Guardiola. He is not what the club needs at this time. Ancelloti has signed a very lucrative contract, brought in his son, knowing that in a year or so he will walk away with a huge payoff when he gets the inevitable sacking. I read somewhere that he gets a bonus payment if the club stays up, surely that is wrong as it is the minimum one would expect from a manager.

Steve Ferns
197 Posted 09/01/2020 at 10:54:02
Paul, I back everyone at Everton. It's my team and so I look for the positives in everyone and get behind them. I was deadest against Sigurdsson though. I wrote numerous times that we did not need him and we needed a striker instead. I don't recall you being one of the people arguing against it.

I've barely mentioned the Athletic but you have a dislike of O'Keefe, whilst as I know him personally, albeit we've not met for several years now, I trust what he says. I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that a man who has been in and our of Finch Farm and Goodison for the best part of 20 years will not have contacts on the admin staff or the coaching staff.

Journalism has taken a new turn in the days of the internet, and websites now report hearsay, when it was never publishable in the print media. If you don't want to listen to hearsay, then fair enough, but this very thread is all about hearsay.

Eddie Dunn
199 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:08:50
Paul A Smith, in defence of Sigurdsson, the fact that it didn't work for him at Spurs is neither here nor there

. I recall Pienaar was doing fine for us but it didn't go well for him there. There are so many unknown factors that you can't compare.
However being 50 miles from Swansea and having a few mates who are season ticket holders there, I saw a fair bit of Sigurdsson. He was the standout player. His delivery from wide positions to Lorente was fantastic and he was also brilliant on his deadballs.
I was excited at his signing but we paid too much. His stock was high but that's not his fault.
I still think he could play at 10 with a big targetman and midfielders prepared to go box to box for him.
He has tried to cover and tackle, but he is simply too slow, but he has good skills and with other water-carriers, like Gana Gueye, he was fine.

Eddie Dunn
200 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:12:09
In fact isn't it a coincidence that this season our midfield has been so poor without Gana. How we miss his energy!
Chris Mason
201 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:17:07
This is the result of a confused recruitment process coupled with a non existent footballing identity. We lost the latter by hiring and firing umpteen managers and coaches in short order.

We need consistency in an industry that demands instant results. As others have said, two games ago we were buoyant. Two games later we're sunk. The players will play best when they have a clear idea of how we play. Some are clearly not bothered, others are probably trying to fit a new system on top of several other approaches they've been coached.

We can fix our club but it will take time. As always.

Christopher Timmins
202 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:17:12
Four days on from the humiliation and it seams that some supporters still don't get it. We are in a total mess but we now have a very experienced and successful manager at the helm. Give him time and he will sort things out, unfortunately given the size of the mess, it will take maybe 18 months or so to turn things around as a significant number of players have to be moved out and that won't be easy. We have to suffer more pain before things start to move in the right direction.

Carlo is not the problem he is the solution!

Ray Robinson
203 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:17:33
Steve Ferns, your statement at #159 was:

"There was a stat that Duncan Ferguson's Everton conceded more chances in three games than Silva's Everton did in the previous 15"

and then when I query it's validity, you respond at #182

"The reason you might not want to believe the facts is that you probably don't consider many of the chances against Everton under Ferguson to be chances."

Sorry, Steve, that sounds a bit know-it all, does it not? Unsubstantiated data becomes fact because you say so?

I still don't believe it. I saw all Ferguson's matches in charge with my own eyes.

Sam Hoare
204 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:17:56
Sigurdsson was not a bad buy because he didn't work at Spurs. Salah didn't work at Chelsea but he turned out ok.

Sigurdsson was a bad buy because he was vastly over-priced (should have been £25-30m) and we already had slow, technically proficient number ten types (Rooney and Klaassen). What we desperately needed (and still need) is pace and energy in the middle.

Sigurdsson has not been the worst signing. He was good last year. But he is symptomatic of an unstructurerd, unbalanced recruitment drive with little value hunting. He cost too much and was given too high wages which means now that his form has fallen off a cliff we cannot get rid of him.

This is the reason we should be very wary of buying players in their later twenties on huge wages, James Rodriguez would be a no for me for the same reason.

Ray Robinson
205 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:20:54
Sam #204, totally agree in every aspect of what you say!
Paul A Smith
206 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:22:20
You have mentioned the Athletic more than anyone on here Steve as far as I can see.

You know him personally so what? There is people I have known all my life that I know are not 100% genuine.

How can you trust the words of someone that hasnt spoken to you in years and is trying to get a project off the ground with quotes from the Invisible man. Sounds gullible that Steve.

I will tell you I don't have a feeling of him either way Steve but I do have enough in my memory to see he talks as much shite as sense and I have told you this before.

Each to their own though I couldnt care if you want to listen to any reporter but talk nonsense with no evidence an I am coming back to protect the name of my club.

Conor McCourt
207 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:23:03
Paul A Smith 195-that's a brilliant post and highlights one of the key frustrations I have with TW. I'm not getting involved in your discussion with Steve but I'm talking about more generally that our fans don't seem to ask the questions at the time, get involved in the club propaganda, propagate the bullshit they were fed, then when it goes tits up they do 360 degree turns and finger point when the die has cast.

During the summer for example, on the very day the deal for Gueye was done there was an explosion of deals in the offing with Gbamin, Kean,Zaha and Doucoure. Nothing was announced as being complete and the excitement on TW was at fever point. What had happened? We had just given our best player by a country mile for years away for peanuts.

Paul A Smith
208 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:25:10
One of the supporters from Finch Farm yesterday is on Talksport at 11.30 talking to Jim White apparently.

God knows why he didnt choose to call Greg Okeefe at The Athletic but if you don't fear gangsters coming through the waves or hooligans planting bombs in your speakers it might be worth a listen.

Andrew Ellams
209 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:27:59
Sigurdsson was also a bad buy because successive managers did not play the system that best suited his game. He is a luxury player and will always operate best between two hard working midfielders (ironic eh) and the striker(s). If we had Gana and Gomes from the final 3rd of last season behind him and DCL and Richarlison in front of him on Sunday we'd most likely be having a different conversation. I'm not making excuses for his poor attitude, but at this level square pegs need to go in square holes.
Chris Mason
210 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:31:42
Jim White: official propaganda outlet for the People's Club.

That's how low we've come.

Steve Ferns
211 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:32:46
Ray, it was a fact reported, and at 1.56am after working all evening into the night I couldn't be arsed trawling through all the sites to find it. If you look on the data sites you will see that Everton are no longer second behind Man City and 5th across all of Europe for shots faced, as they were towards the end of Silva's reign, they have dropped considerably. Opta have all the stats and they are behind a pay-wall providing these stats to newspapers and the TV, so I cannot just go and bang out the proof. I assure you that this was definitely reported somewhere, and when I have time, I will look for it for you.
Paul A Smith
212 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:43:11
Conor it baffles me too lad. Champ manager era.
Chris Mason
213 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:43:38
That's what we need - more stats!

I think the point is all this nonsense is blinding people from what's being played in front of them. Wouldn't it be nice to just enjoy watching the game, win lose or draw, rather than this soap opera every other day.

Idealistic, but there you have it. The club has lost its soul and it will take some time to find it.

David Midgley
214 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:44:21
Tommy #93.
Everton Football Club are very understanding also. The players don't turn up every week.
Steve Ferns
215 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:45:42
Paul, the Athletic was mostly referred to by Lyndon and by Mark G (whatever happened to him). I've referred to no more than 4 articles on there. I find it much better than the Echo, as they were able to use their Italian based journalists to give insight into Ancelotti, and more interestingly for me, his backroom.

I think everyone agrees Ancelotti has one hell of a job on his hands, and whilst most say that he has a fantastic reputation and so hope he will be able to put things right, I am very interested in how. As said before he came in, I do not think his skillset suits the task at hand. So, is there someone else with the skills to coach the team on his behalf? The Athletic then speak to James Horncastle of BT Sport, BBC, and ESPN, who is able to give details about the backroom team. For example, he quotes Davide Ancelotti's academic qualifications and that he achieved an exceptional score, graduating top of his class, when completing his Pro Licence.

You might not like the Athletic, but it's one of the better sources of football journalism out there, especially as the print media dies a slow death.

Darren Hind
216 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:51:55
The most crushing moment of this defeat was seeing Yerry Mina looking up FOUR times for someone to show for him. He was under enormous pressure and in the end he was forced to punt a percentage ball down the line. My heart sank.
I've been critical of the big fella, but if you give him a pass he will make it. Nobody showed for him.

It wasn't the quality of our passing which lost us the game it was the lack of movement. Time and again our defenders were isolated in possession with options ether poor or non existent.

Every time we hire a new manager, we see the same names expressing "disbelief "at any criticism he faces. It doesnt matter who the manager is (just as long as he is an expensive import) He, seemingly is above reproach and can do NO wrong.

Duncan Ferguson inherited a far worse situation than Ancelotti. Yet in attempt to apologies for Ancelottis poor effort, These people want to dismiss his fantastic showing as unsustainable. . Bollox. The only way to succeed in this league is to play a high intensity game. You drop your intensity. You will be punished. Fergusons men had every right to be tired against Arsenal. it was during the seasons busiest period, against top teams. with the chances of rotation varying from slight to nil.

The only unsustainable thing I see is belief that we have to have a big name manager who has an impressive CV and therefore MUST be better qualified to run our club... And we must not question him -EVER

Are these people hoping that by persevering with this time honored pap, that the law of averages will kick in and they will break the habit of a lifetime by one day actually being proved right ?

Tony Everan
217 Posted 09/01/2020 at 11:52:45
Paul Tran on an earlier post talked about lancing the boils , it's high time this was done . The stinking pus needs to be projectile vomited from the club.

Carlo said he wasnt even sitting down with Brands until after the Liverpool game to discuss the squad. The board need to listen to what Carlo says , not doubt him .

Carlo is a fresh pair of eyes with the one of the best CVs in football , he will tell it as it is , his appraisal and solutions will improve the club . Carlo will point out the boils , Brands and Moshiri must administer the red hot lance , without hesitation.

After Sunday's debacle Brands and the board will be left in no doubt whatsoever of our inadequacies. The bald truth is that Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin are a liability to our team at Centre Midfield. That's 65 million quids worth of players on a combined 200k per week. Our young lads, Tom Davies and Mason Holgate would be a far better bet for the moment in Centre midfield.

By hook or by crook Brands needs to buy a magic wand and move on Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin for the best £ he can get. We need to replace them with a more dynamic centre midfielder permanent and another on loan., until Gomes and Gbamin are up and running.

Our centre midfield problems are not going away. Urgent action is needed. It is guaranteed that Ancelotti will have clearly expressed that and will fully expect his recommendations to be actioned.

Martin Nicholls
218 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:00:06
Steve Hogan#91 - good post but can I comment on two of your points?
Firstly, there was no "allegedly" about Delph's online spat with a fan - I've seen and read it and can assure you that it did happen.
Secondly, nothing wrong with having Evertonians on the Board so long as they have the requisite skills and experience - if I were Moshiri I'd be looking to recruit two Evertonians and replace Kenwright and Little Miss Dynamite with them - respectively Mark Carney (Chairman of Bank of England but soon to be "available") and Sir Terry Leahy (former CEO of Tesco and chairman of B&M). They'd no doubt be cheaper to employ than many of the wasters who don the blue shirt regularly! Carney might not be interested but I think Leahy would jump at the chance.
On another note, it's surprising to read that senior players had the guts to stand up to Duncan F when immediately prior to this alleged altercation, they'd hoisted the white flag when faced with a bunch of enthusiastic teenagers!
Jim Harrison
219 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:00:06
Eddie 200

Whilst this is true about missing Gana, it is also true that we havent had a first choice midfield once this season

Kim Vivian
220 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:02:14
Chris Mason 213...

Yes, to your question.

If we were supporters of a championship or league 1 team we'd still be fanatical supporters, no chance of Europe or silverware realistically, but we'd go along to watch and for the most part enjoy football. I don't go out on a Sunday morning to watch my local Sunday men's team play because I expect them to be in Europe next year.

It is all becoming a bit of a circus - it's just a little sad that we are the clowns.

Stan Schofield
221 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:03:13
Darren@216: Many people are supportive of Ancelotti's appointment, based on his record of course. But at the same time, he like any other manager will be assessed according to how the team performs on the pitch. That's how it works. Good overall performances, he'll be assessed a good manager. Great performances, a great manager. Shit performances, he'll eventually be shown the door.

There can be, and are on these pages, all kinds of theories, positive and negative, about how Everton are likely to perform under him. But nobody knows. Any appointment is a matter of risk taking, and this situation is no exception. The fact is, he's here, and for some time, and we need to get behind him, subject to the ongoing assessment of how the team performs. That's all there is to it.

Christy Ring
222 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:03:45
What galls me, Gana signed a new, and improved contract, 12mths previous, because a "big club" PSG, want him, Silva/Brands, feels for him, and let him go, why? Should Everton not be their no.1 priority. Brands then buys an injury prone Delph, and pays him more money than he was on at City, and probably more than Gana was on, could only happen at our club.
Steve, regards your stats, Ferguson got 5pts from Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal, in Silva's last game, we lost 5-2 to the redshite, they could have scored double that, I think it's a bit hypocritical.
Raymond Fox
223 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:06:51
The midfield is the engine of any team and its obvious that we are not good enough in that department.
Ok we have been hampered with injuries but we were out played by the reds reserves. We simply didn't match their skill and effort.
We could have matched their effort, but as for ability in the main we have a very average bunch.
Stan Schofield
224 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:08:52
Christy@222: Everton's tendency to sell their best and most pivotal players in their prime is nothing new, and from my memory goes all the way back to Alan Ball in 1971. The latest example of it is, as you say, Gana. If we are to truly go places, this tendency must stop. We can only hope that under Ancelotti it will indeed stop. Otherwise there would be little point in him being here.
Andrew Ellams
225 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:12:49
I am intrigued what level of bullshit Ancelotti has been sold on transfer budgets. I mean £100m in losses and a wage bill vs revenue number that already exceeds FFP rules does not exactly scream a splurge on top class players to me.
Darren Hind
226 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:20:28
I accept all of that Stan.

But this outrage and disbelief expressed whenever legitimate criticism and comment is leveled is cringe worthy.

As too is the need to criticise Duncan Ferguson in order to deflect from Ancelottis errors of judgement. We had all this with Unsworth too.
The fact is - and it is a fact - These two ex players didnt get us into the relegation zone. They were the ones who got us out.

Matinez, Koeman and Silva all left us in free fall. If people cant bring themselves to say anything nice about the loyal servants who faced the fire and got us out of trouble. Why do they feel the need to say anything at all ?

Mike Doyle
227 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:26:37
Darren 216 ] I noticed this too - and not just with Mina - I spotted Seamus having the same lack of options and wellying the ball up the field (or back to Pickford to welly it for him).

My assumption was that a number of the midfield players were hiding in plain sight again (e.g. staying close to / the wrong side of an opponent to make receiving a pass from a team mate impossible). It's difficult to spot this when watching on TV but I'd be interested in hearing if any of the TW posters who were at the game spotted this? Being behind the goal they would have had a great view.

Adrian Evans
228 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:30:13
Our midfield should have been right up their.
But Gana was allowed to go,Gbmin a utility back four, defensive mid midfield fixer was a replacement.??
Gomes got a career threatening injury.
Delph is a sick note,play one miss three.
I feel for Tom Davis.
We have be crucified with a bad decision,terrible terrible luck with injury.
We spent £60million in mid field.
But alongside this.
Moise Keane, at present useless one for future, maybe.
Wallcott,have we had value ???no.
Snederline??occasional performance when he fancies it.
Iwobi,???starting to think no.

Take a look at Leicester City, their scouting,buying.???
We have been a mess on scouting, buying, ftom manager to players.

We cant just expect a bunch of players to immediately turn it around.
If we kept Duncan in post,his way they would have tired,as we saw at City.
New system again.
Oh Michael Kean,£28million on his way to the championship,nice pay day,back to Burnley,never play for England again.

Liverpool are solid,rock solid.Dont like to say it.
They sacked Brendan, hurt him and look what hes done since???
They did an up grade.Jurgen four,is it five years???
So the manager appointment,brilliant,us ???
Players,full backs ??Virgil,
For god sake look who they bought and he plays them in a team,a system.
No player bigger than the team.

We are just going to have to wait, see with Carletti, the club.
But it has to start now.
The Liverpool game was a huge disappointment.
Salvation opportunity,14 Mar at Goodison Park.Only a game a week we got.
Sort the team out,the method, the players.
Carletti has to keep us up first and thats not a given unless he get 5 in 7,8 out all bad apples.
Improves Moise Keane,Anthony Gordon gets on fire and does a Waynne Rooney for us.??
Gomes is playing by April, on training ground,Gbmin,two new signings in effect.
DCL is coached to a new level.
We Kenny back in the summer if we want.
Holgates improving week by week.

Loads to look forward to.

But we have to model it on the Shite.We got the manager,back room.

Nowt more to say.

Oh get Delph fit keep him fit.

Paul Tran
229 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:36:37
Darren #216, you're spot-on about the lack of movement. That's nothing to do with any 'poor tactics', that's pure lack of application from the players.

It'll be interesting to see whether Ancelotti gets that application consistently, or whether he/the club chooses to sideline those who don't give it.

Rest assured if he picks those two as the 'engine room' again, I'll be joining the race to call him out on it.

Ray Robinson
230 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:39:10
Steve #211, I will also look at the Times this Saturday. Last time I looked, their stats didn't even show Everton in the top 5 in the Premier League for shots faced. Not that I set much store by such stats.
James Marshall
231 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:40:23
Everton is a curious case - what's the motivation for our players? We're a mid table side with very little to play for currently. We could make a dart for the top 6 perhaps so is that the only carrot?

Making quality, motivated signing in January is going to be extremely hard work, and so is motivating a group of players who are currently lacking any motivation to win games or succeed.

What have they got to play for? They're all being paid handsomely and have contracts in place, so what does a manager say to get them firing? Ancelotti may well be the man to get the best out of players, but I'd love to hear how he's going to get them interested.

Derek Knox
232 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:44:57
Tony Everan @ 217, who's going to lance the Boardroom Boil that is Kenwright? :-)
Christy Ring
233 Posted 09/01/2020 at 12:51:37
Adrian, get Delph fit? Are you looking for a miracle, he was constantly injured at City, and continued the trend, have to say, he's a premadonna, who has too much to say, considering he's only here a short while
Roger Helm
234 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:02:31
Former transfer policy:

1.Identify up and coming talent at a lower club
2. Drive down to Wolverhampton or Millwall or wherever to watch target, not once but ten to twenty times
3.canvas mutual acquaintances about target's character and personality.
4. Enter into negotiations with target's manager to prise target away from his club.

Present transfer policy:

1. Put feet up on desk
2.Google squads of bigger clubs to identify a player not good enough to be a starter
3. Phone player's agent to offer player more money to come and play for Everton.
4. Congratulate self on twenty minutes hard work.
5. Have a nap.

Is it really surprising our club is in the mess it is in?

Tom Bowers
235 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:13:59
It just seems Everton always get conned into bring in players who can play but are forever missing too many games. Remember Darron Gibson.
These last two seasons have been no different. Having said that, they have never had the resources to have a really strong squad in depth but it appears they may now be in a better position, or are they ?

One report is saying Carlos has to sell some underachievers to get the funds to bring in his preferred choices and has apparently named six players including Pickford.

True or not true it remains to be seen but one thing for sure it's going to take some decent results over the next few weeks to eradicate that foul performance at Analfield and even then it will be hard to forget unless by some miracle they can win the remaining derby game.

Andrew Ellams
236 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:16:24
Roger, the previous policy was actually pretty effective with so little budget. Never underestimate the power of due diligence. But football fans are a fickle lot because now we have had money to spend imagine the howls of derision now if were linked with a relatively unknown Australian midfielder from Millwall (only then because a deal to Palace had collapsed at the last minute) or a Spanish midfielder from Real Sociedad who had bounced around without making any sort of real impact.
Derek Taylor
237 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:22:21
Ironic that Roger's 'former' policy looks remarkably like how Uncle Bill worked on transfer business and certainly in Moyes time made a decent job of it. All at no cost to Everton.

The 'present 'policy is the one I envisage adopted by DoFs at most clubs. Costs a fortune.

Can't stand the bloke ( Kenwright) but he knew a bloody sight more how to run a football club than the comedians he sold it to.

As to how it will all end up, check 'Ten years with Aston Villa ' by Andy Lerner.

Phil Martin
238 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:26:54
Any players who believe we lost that game because of the tactics should be sold ASAP.
Phil Martin
239 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:30:28
If only we could send the money we spent 2 years ago, back in time to Moyes circa 2009/10.

BTW - BPB's stewardship was an utter Disgrace. Incompetence from a new owner doesn't negate the damage done previously.

Brent Stephens
240 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:31:04
Roger #234 "Present transfer policy: 1. Put feet up on desk. 2.Google squads of bigger clubs to identify a player not good enough to be a starter. 3. Phone player's agent to offer player more money to come and play for Everton. 4. Congratulate self on twenty minutes hard work. 5. Have a nap.
Is it really surprising our club is in the mess it is in?"

My God, I hadn't realised that's the way Brands acts! Thanks for the inside info.

Steve Ferns
241 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:31:13
So, was anything interesting said on TalkShite? Do we know if the caller really was one of the Seven?
Stan Schofield
242 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:38:23
Darren@226: Agreed. Folks often try to isolate individual factors or players or the manager, to try to explain a poor performance, when in fact it is usually a complex (because life is complex) combination of factors that can be impossible to pin down. If this wasn't the case then good managers wouldn't be valued so highly for their intuition and overall ability to get a team to gel as a unit.

There can be a lot of confirmation bias, so that when some people have formed an opinion on someone or something, they'll lie in wait until an event occurs that happens to fit their opinion, then they'll pounce on that event in an attempt to justify their opinion. Happens all the time on ToffeeWeb, although that doesn't stop it being a great site.

Rudi Coote
243 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:39:55
How many fans will be waiting for the "team" when they arrive at Goodison on Saturday? Going to be noisy. More noisier than inside during the game.

I'd say no cheering when they run out onto the pitch. They don't deserve it.

Rob Halligan
244 Posted 09/01/2020 at 13:53:42
Come on now, Brent, (240). Didn't you know that is the way Brands operates?
Derek Taylor
245 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:18:20
I have a fear that DF will be made to pay a price for all that followed the derby game. Angelloti won't be pleased to hear that criticism of his tactics caused 'the work to rule' by the 'highly paids' whilst Brands will be angry that his morning coffee was cold when he got back from 'the confrontation'.

It always happens that 'someone' cops the blame and it certainly won't be anyone associated with the new manager.

Jonathan Tasker
246 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:20:13
And still Kenwright is allowed to stink the place out
Derek Taylor
247 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:21:39
A minor inconvenience these days, Johnathon. Stop obsessing !
Brent Stephens
248 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:22:24
I'm so naive, Rob.
Jim Baker
249 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:23:00
This thing about a FIRM going to FF has to be all crap. That might be the way in the badlands of London gangster life but here at EFC, come on lads who would believe that shite.
Jamie Crowley
250 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:31:18
I've been off TW all week because, in all honesty, there's so much anger I simply stayed away. Now I don't blame a single person for being angry, not even for a second. The team was utterly embarrassed last weekend, and fans in my opinion, have a right to be very upset.

If this article is true, or even a shred of it is true, those senior players questioning the managers tactics - a manager with ridiculous pedigree and resume - need to go. And go immediately.

We need to trim all the bad influences out of the squad. You're either on board, or you aren't.

I, too, question some of the tactics. But to voice that and cause disarray inside a team, after the manager has been there only a few weeks? That's just a shitty, subversive, self-absorbed person. Get ‘em out and move on.

Jamie Crowley
251 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:41:55
By the way, another prediction (Yanks love those), and apologies if someone else maybe mentioned.

The silver lining about being knocked out of the FA Cup, is that Ancelotti now has basically an entire half season and all summer to tinker, experiment, and stamp his mark on the team.

There's going to be frustrating times ahead as he does that. There will be more than one game where “the setup is all wrong” and the like. Carlo is going to try a lot of different things in my opinion.

The real test will be come August when the new season kicks off, we've had months of Carlo, and a summer to make some changes.

Tough thing to say coming off THAT performance on the weekend, and Lord knows it was puke-inducing, but we need to exhibit some patience for a bit.

Conor McCourt
252 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:45:44
Tom 235- the problem is worse in that we are not getting conned, we are such a joke at identifying players who will be even available to play.

Take Brands this summer he signs two players in Delph and Gomes who are pretty much the same player positionally i.e. If ones out the best option is the other. Both have been beset by niggly injuries year on year. Yes you can have 3 or so of these players in a squad (Mina,Bernard) but in the exact same role is just a dereliction of care.

Clubs just see us coming

Derek Taylor
253 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:48:39
I think I'm right in believing that 15 January will mark the 55th anniversary of the last great confrontation twixt fans and the playing establishment. Known as the 'Kicking of Catterick' it happened after the Blackpool away game which saw Joe Royle introduced at the expense of fan's favourite Fred Pickering.

Over the years since that ' great uprising', there have been untold re-tellings of what actually took place. I wonder if there are any amongst us who took part or witnessed what happened ?

Kieran Kinsella
254 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:50:31

I think ToffeeWebs Dick Fearon was at that incident if I recall correctly

Ron Marr
255 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:52:53
I think Forrest Gump was there
Dave Lynch
256 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:53:26
Can't agree Connor.

You need cover in that position, it's the pivotal role of a team, centre mid.

All the top teams have adequate cover for midfield, they make the most tackles, get tackled the most and generally do most of the donkey work... I'll rephrase that, most other teams midfielders do the donkey work, ours just stand around like fucking lemons.

John Dean
257 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:57:21
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Conor McCourt
258 Posted 09/01/2020 at 14:57:37
Dave 256- I think we are agreeing? Re-read my post again.
Rennie Smith
259 Posted 09/01/2020 at 15:08:51
I know it's dangerous to believe anything published in these rags, if someone had a go back at Big Dunc he would have ripped their f'ing head off. Look out for who's got a mystery injury this weekend.

Sadly it's not just us, player power these days has got out of control. So many managers get the bullet "because they've lost the dressing room", that would never happen in the past. The players run clubs these days, just look at Pogba. They have their agents on speed dial, ready to scuttle off at the first sign of trouble.

Gobshites indeed.

Show them clips of Sheff Utd performances this season, with a team made of players that predominantly came from the lower leagues. If they don't want to accept it, put them in the stiffs and let the U23s have a go. It won't happen of course because who's gonna buy a Gordon shirt?

Stephen Driscoll
260 Posted 09/01/2020 at 15:09:50
I've heard that traditionally, Ancelotti protects his players from criticism from a bad hasn't taken him long to change that philosophy by the sound of it,in two weeks with our players. Can anyone really blame him?
John Hughes
261 Posted 09/01/2020 at 15:25:25
Derek. I think you will find that it was Alex Young that Joe Royle replaced that day. I was led to believe from my old man that the “ assault” on Catterick was way over exaggerated. He was led to believe that there was a coming together but it was more of a stumble or a push as a bunch of disgruntled fans confronted The Cat to make their views known.
Jay Harris
262 Posted 09/01/2020 at 15:35:38
Catterick was not kicked although he was surrounded by a group of fans who were jostling him and I believe he stumbled and twisted an ankle. I do believe it was because he put a 16 year old Joe Royle in in place of Alex Young not Fred Pickering.
Dave Lynch
263 Posted 09/01/2020 at 15:50:40
Sorry Connor.
Apologies mate, just re read your post.
Ian Pilkington
264 Posted 09/01/2020 at 15:59:03
I used to go to all local away games in those days and the 2-0 defeat at Blackpool in January 1966 was indeed of the poorest displays I can remember. I knew nothing of the “kicking Catterick” incident until reading about it the Sunday paper; I think he had been jostled rather than kicked outside the ground on his way to the team coach.
The selection of an untried 16 year old Joe Royle in place of Alex Young is perhaps a cautionary tale a time when several contributors are calling for Ancelotti to consider selecting players from the Academy.
Incidentally, the following Saturday at Goodison Alex was restored and Sunderland thrashed 3-0 in the 3rd Round, starting our successful FA Cup run.
Joe only played once more that season when the Cat picked an entire reserve team to play a league game at Leeds do avoid a kicking before the Semi Final. I believe we were fined for fielding a weakened team!
Conor McCourt
265 Posted 09/01/2020 at 16:08:45
No worries Dave it probably wasn't the clearest of posts from me on re-reading it myself.
Steve Brown
266 Posted 09/01/2020 at 16:12:09
The fans outrage is cathartic and long overdue - this club has to reach rock bottom before real meaningful change can happen. It has been frozen in a state of institutional mediocrity at all levels for three decades.

The players are insulated from fans these days, so if the lads have to picket Finch Fan to be heard or bombard that tosspot Delph with tweets please go fill your boots and more power to you.

Minik Hansen
267 Posted 09/01/2020 at 16:35:11
Steve Wright #18, I remember that game... back then, I dumped my Everton shirt to the garbage, not in a way that I stopped supporting the club, just on the basis of the lack of fight shown in the match by our players.
It never happened again or even considered throughout the years since, throwing away a shirt, but for this very last game, I considered it for a second…….. ah well, kept the shirt, hoping for a PROPER reaction. I hope Ancelotti sorts it out real soon.
Kieran Kinsella
268 Posted 09/01/2020 at 16:54:45
Ron Marr


Paul Jones
269 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:05:00
I remember sometime ago that Genoa Ultras after a poor performance against Sienna went onto the pitch and insisted their players remove their shirts. If our players take fright at seven fans without a dog called "Spot" then we do have serious problems.
Tony Abrahams
270 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:12:38
I think that's what Darren, meant Paul T, why persist with those tactics, when our midfield players were either hiding, or just lacked that basic mobility to come and get the ball?

Klopp's kids (average age was 22) couldn't believe how easy it was to go and push on Everton's defenders when they had the ball, and they must have been both shocked and delighted that Everton never changed things around.

That game has now gone, hopefully some of our players will also be gone soon, and until we get better players then let's hope those constantly playing out from the back tactics? (Usually after ten passes its our goalie just fucking launching it anyway) are also gone.

Rudi Coote
271 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:28:38
I was almost.. almost packing all my memorablia and sending it to the club. But after calming down, only a bit, I decided that shit team aren't going to steal my memories. Wish I could forget about that debacle though.
Bill Watson
272 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:31:14
Ian #264

I was at the match too, Ian, and it was dire. It's only the Catterick incident which prevents it, with countless others, from being consigned to the crap match memory dust bin.

Friends who saw the incident said Catterick was jostled and it was no more than that. The tabloids escalated it into an attack of unprecedented proportions.

Brilliant as Alex was, nevertheless, he did tend to hide in away games

Don Alexander
273 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:32:12
Before anyone cites the 1965/6 Blackpool team as basket-case opponents who beat us against all odds thereby justifying a confrontation with Catterick just remember they had an England goalie (Waiters), right-back Armfield), midfielder (Ball), and Emlyn Hughes as well. They weren't a bad side at all but the fans of that era knew a shite performance by us when they saw one and reacted accordingly, after one crap match, unlike fans in this century who watch dross for decades and only really react when Klopp really did take the total piss out of us in full public view.
Alan McGuffog
274 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:50:14
Remember that game at Bloomfield Road. Iron hard frozen pitch, place full of Evertonians, crappy result. Think Blackpool also had Tony Green playing for them. (?). Waiters was a brilliant keeper
Derek Taylor
275 Posted 09/01/2020 at 17:56:57
My fingers did the talking when I did that post because it was certainly Alex Young's omission that caused the bust up ! For years afterwards it was said Catterick never trusted the fans and always kept them at a distance !
Jem Bir
276 Posted 09/01/2020 at 18:08:31
Well if Carlo Ancelotti had any doubts as to the passion of the fans then I think he probably knows we care now.

I was at the match on Sunday and the second half was dismal, but, to be honest, we've been crap for a while.

Ancelotti has a tough job to sort the squad out and it's going to take skill, money and (above all) time.

So, he's going to get my full-throated support while the players will have to work pretty hard to assuage the disdain I feel for many of them at the moment.

Darren Hind
277 Posted 09/01/2020 at 18:20:37
Was their average age 22 Tony ? I heard today that it was 24. But I don't want to go on an RS website to find out.

Despite all the Hysteria. I think by simply playing Davies instead of one of the bollards and possibly Kean instead of Walcott. The average age of our team may well have been as young as theirs

Steve Ferns
278 Posted 09/01/2020 at 18:31:02
Darren, our average age was 27.0, theirs was 24.6, according to That's using dynamic ages so someone days short of their 30th birthday would be 29.9 not 29. I added them all up and got us as 26.5. Then by doing as you said our average age comes down to 24.6 as well. But remember they took 34 year old Milner off for 19 year old LeBrock (or something) and that lowered the age considerably not long after kick-off.
Ray Roche
279 Posted 09/01/2020 at 18:34:27
I was probably only a yard or so from Catterick when the incident took place, Catterick stumbled on, as I recall, the kerb just a few yards from the coach. It was no kicking, just a jostling and something Catterick could have cleared up at the time if he'd had a mind to. The fact that the scumbags from the Red Tops chose to escalate the incident proves that there are no limits to the depths they'll sink to in order to sell a newspaper.
Darren Hind
280 Posted 09/01/2020 at 18:57:39
Interesting Steve.

Just looking at Michael's match report. With the introduction of Kean and The Ox I calculate the average age of both the teams to be very close to 25 for about a third of the game.

I know they played most of the game with a younger team. but the difference in age over the piece was nowhere near the massive gulf the RS press would have everyone believe

Steve Ferns
281 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:02:06
Darren: Link
As above, they use dynamic ages so someone's age is not measured in just years but also in days as a decimal figure.

You might laugh at their market values, which is the whole point of that website. Gomez accounts for 33% of their team market value (㿋m of 䀊m). Meanwhile, our team was purchased for 𧵼m and they valued it at 𧶥m.

Can we swap them for the cash, so we can start again please?

Michael Williams
282 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:11:42
Maybe Carlo got the tactics wrong. Maybe he also thought these high paid professional players could play out the back against a bunch of teenagers. I guess our players proved him wrong.

I have been thinking for a long time that this organization is rotten from the top to the bottom. It needs a complete and total overhaul. Just about everyone from all the offices through the entire player program and academy should be replaced. No one who works at Goodison should be spared a thorough and complete review. The board is no exception.

Mike Doyle
283 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:24:39
One of the reasons - perhaps the main reason we struggle to play out from the back is the reluctance/inability of midfield players to move into space and give the defender with the ball an option. The exception to this is usually Tom Davies who, whatever his shortcomings, doesn't hide.
From what I could see on Sunday (and I appreciate that TV doesn't give you the best view of the complete field) defenders were looking up for someone to pass to - seeing nobody - their options became
1) pass sideways to another defender
2) Wack it up the field / give LFC possession
3) Pass back to JP to Wack up the field / give LFC possession.
Derek Taylor
284 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:29:56
Colin, Brands hardly has to be a genius to persuade these'stars' to sign for Everton when he's throwing money at them like it was confetti !

Reckon any of us could do his job with limitless funds available to throw at second raters like he has signed.

Steve Ferns
285 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:31:53
Exactly Mike. And the easiest option is 1 or 3. especially if they then under hit the pass so as to make sure the recipient can get hold of it. Pass complete, job done. The fact that the recipient is in an either tougher position does not concern them. It's safe football, and scared football.

Also, doing this can be completely against managerial instruction, hence Ancelotti going mad.

Bobby Mallon
286 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:33:29
All the talk of players wages and not being good enough is bollocks. I'm more fickle than most fans ( honest ) but Sigurdsson is a good player and so is Sidibe and most of the others as well. The problem is playing the fucking ball out from the back our players are not up to it,.
Robert Tressell
287 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:44:48
Bobby how dare you claim to be fickle and then talk a great deal of sense. I'm now confused about whether I'm completely wrong about everything
Bill Watson
288 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:46:23
Bobby; # 286

Maybe they're not up to it because Sigurdsson rarely shows for the ball and, if he does get it, promptly gives it back!

Rob Halligan
289 Posted 09/01/2020 at 19:58:51
Mike 283, and Steve. Regarding passing the ball to another defender after all the faffing (is that a word?) around from short goal kicks, why is it the ball always goes to our right back, be it either Coleman or Sidibe? I can't remember the ball ever going out wide to Digne.
Paul Tran
290 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:02:09
If our midfield players are incapable of making themselves available for a pass from a defender, incapable of receiving a pass, turning and running/passing forwards, I would argue that they have no place in a top-flight football team.

This is like Martinez's first season when people on here were queueing up to tell me that our players 'couldn't pass the ball'.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Colin Metcalfe
291 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:02:12
Why do so many posters have a problem with playing it out from the back ? It should never be a problem even against a high press, as long as you have the midfield open, in space and willing to take the ball( which should always be case ) playing though the opposing team is simple.
Playing in Barcelona/ Matero for 13 years and then in Medellin for 3 years as a full back that is how it's done, always on the deck and passed through the midfield.
So please don't tell me professional players most of are internationals and playing on a pitch resembling a snooker table can't get this basic tactic right, what was alarming the other night was simply the lack of movement and finding space ! Certain players are hiding and not willing to take responsibility which I hope Ancelloti has identified and shipped out this summer.
Paul Smith
292 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:02:22
My twopenneth worse. Siggy, Sidibe, Sneids are all consistently inconsistent to the point that at times they are pure shite.

On Sunday I was high up behind the goal and watched Mina going mental for someone to pass to, no one showed for him, it was a horrow show.

Holgate was strugging on the left being right footed and should have been moved central and Sidibe dropped back. Everyone around me noticed this, seems CA got this one wrong but that is not to absolve the 11 statues in blue - never felt so embarassed and they were shocking. One last thing for years now no one show's for throw-in's a sympton of ball-fear a new term for shithouses or proper parlance a lack of confidence in tight positions an inabilty to pass and move into space, recieve the ball beat a man and pass 5 yards to a mover/runner and go again.

Wtf are they being coached at FF.

Mike Doyle
293 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:25:31
Colin 291] I don't think most of us have a problem with the principle of playing out from the back. The issue is that to make it work requires mobile midfield players who are willing/able to find space and make themselves available. Without Gomes and Davies we don't seem to have anyone - thus playing out is doomed to fail. The other result is that the defenders have few options and incur the wrath of the crowd.
Duncan F seemed to recognise this and decided to abandon the practice.
I noticed that on Sunday there were a few occasions when we tried a high press and Liverpool's defenders and willing/mobile midfielders played through it without much problem.
Steve Ferns
294 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:28:05
Rob, two suggestions:
1. Cos pickford is left handed and naturally goes with the motion to his right?
2. Because everyone is right footed and to pass from the right means they receive the ball goal side so they can naturally shield it from the attackers who should be to their left and also having Pickford free for the pass backwards

Complete guess though.

Neil Copeland
295 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:29:51
Steve #281, we need to include a cash back option on all future player purchases
Andrew Dempsey
296 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:32:52
‘We need to get behind the manager.
Carlo will sort it out.'
It's all wishful thinking coming from a truly tragic place.
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiments, because what else can we do?
But, I just feel we're going to be saying it a lot over the next six months.
Paul Birmingham
297 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:38:58
At this time the club must face up, move on and transcend the rightful anger and frustration, that has erupted after Sunday's debacle.

At the level have been for years, the facts and figures, the stats, aren't good and the trophy cupboard bears testimony.

Let's get back to basics and shift up the performances and league position.

Get the basics right and perhaps the necessary stats will be good reading.

Carlo and Duncan will get the players, playing for each other as a team again, and this means getting the basics right.

Whatever reasons for Sunday's shit showing, it can't and won't happen again.

Watching Leeds and speaking to some Leeds lads, this week, they tell me, that's the way they've played consistently since Bielsa took over.

Hopefully within the next 12 months Everton will have consistency, pride and belief. That will be achieved by the players, proper players, playing for the shirt for 96 minutes every game, including preseason. Finding such players won't be easy but it will test Marcel and Carlos abilities in eyeing and signing such players.

Preseason the last few years has not inspired the sense of anticipation for the start of the season.

Hopefully Sunday's crap fest, is the catalyst for a new beginning and from the ashes of that defeat Everton will start fresh this Saturday.

Tommy Carter
298 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:45:02
Just seen those published salaries in the Daily Mirror. Made me feel a bit ill.

Old Sheedy is on 15k a week.

I literally cannot believe my eyes.

Despicable mismanagement from EFC. No wonder all these academy graduates stay at he club achieveing absolutely nothing until their mid 20s.

Kieran Kinsella
299 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:53:00
Paul Tran

I remember watching the old "History of Everton football club" by John Motson in the late 80s when we were excited about our new signings Pat Nevin, Cottee etc. Among other things, it was either Kendall or Harvey who said the "Everton way" involved hours of training where the ball was thrown at you from every which way and you had to control it and pass it on accurately in two touches. Simple, mind numbing no doubt but effective. Somehow with all the data and science now we've evidently forgotten about such simple concepts in training.

Paul Birmingham
300 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:53:22
Playing out from the back at any level, if practiced, the players should be tuned, know and expect, when, where the ball is coming and what to do with the ball.

In football your supposed to know what your gonna do with the ball before you get the ball or win the ball.

On Sunday not only where the passes inside the 6 and 18 yard box, generally very poor, the players, were not verbally communicating, bar Mina, who looked well pissed off, and right so at his cowardly shirking team mates.

For me it's down to the coaching ground practice, and this raises, bigger general questions about Everton's playing style in general.

If any one has a stat for the team with the least attempts on goal from outside the box I'd be interested to see, where Everton are, not only this season and the past 5 seasons.

Also, for the TW stations, which defence has this season undertaken the most periods of play in their own half and inside 30 yards from their goal keepers line?

I'm likely miles off, but I'd say Everton must be in this category, at the lower end, if such data exists.

Confidence, hiding, shirking, scared, what the hell, happens at Finch Farm? Monday to Friday?

Some players train and shirk, and regardless of the achievements and spirit shows, which was a revelation under Duncan's time in charge, playing consistent attacking football and keeping shape, in my view has been missing for years, since Brown shoes first 6 months, in charge.

Then in 2014, the gradual decline started. Now we've almost run aground, the engines stopped, and now a retune and new start.

Hopefully Carlo, will be taking stock and we will see positive change, as the club, needs a big confidence boost against Brighton, and a win.

Simon Dalzell
301 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:55:24
Steve #156 Davies was on the bench. How is that injured ?? Why was he there if not to be used, and we were desperate from early on.
Paul Tran
302 Posted 09/01/2020 at 20:59:33
Yes Kieran, I remember that. I think these players gave got into the habit of playing slowly and ponderously over the past few years. Like many people with destructive habits, they lash out when they get called out. Hopefully Carlo can make pass and move their new habit.
Christy Ring
303 Posted 09/01/2020 at 21:17:26
Paul @292 Completely agree, they don't want the ball and when did they didn't try to go forward they passed it back to Pickford, I saw Seamus receiving the ball looking up no one showing and 3 Liverpool players closing him down. I remember Ross Barkley even when the crowd were giving him a hard time, he always showed for the ball and drove forward
Tony Abrahams
304 Posted 09/01/2020 at 21:28:54
Paul T, that's exactly why I don't want to see at least a couple of those players play for Everton, ever again.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe my eyes deceived me, but Sigurdsson was turning like the Royal Iris, and Schneiderlin, was doing his best not to get involved imo, and Liverpool could not believe their luck, especially when Ancelloti never changed it.

I'm delighted we've got Ancellotti, over the moon, never thought it was possible that we could get such a big name and proven manager to Everton, but if it's true what Maldini said about him being able to manage any team, then a man as knowledgeable as Carlo, should have stuck with Duncan's tactics, until he'd had time to work with his team, especially after witnessing how poor they were at City on New Years Day?

My bad vibes are over, I'm taking the massive positives out of Sunday, and that is that player power is over at Finch-Farm, even if it gets a little bit worse over the coming few weeks, I personally feel it's nearing its end, now that the players have gone into “we don't give a fuck” mode, once to often, and even the fairest minded fans have had enough of them now.

I don't like hearing the team before a game, it's another of my lunatic ways, believing we will lose if I'm told it before I see it for myself, just before kick-off, but after a little thought I'm going to look before saturday's game, because I've had enough of certain players now, and I'd prefer not to watch them ever again in a blue shirt, if they are selected, simply because clever cheats win, but we've only got the cheats, who cheat us.

I don't expect to go now I'm thinking about it, because I think Ancellotti will play Walcott, who played the best away match of his Everton career on Sunday, (for about 40 mins) until the going got that little bit tougher.

Jamie Crowley
305 Posted 09/01/2020 at 21:36:09
No one showed for the ball against the rs. I'd say, of all the comments above, that's the one for me that is spot on.

Sigurdsson isn't a hiding type of player. He runs his ass off and never, ever hides. I think the issue with 2019-2020 Sigurdsson is that he's older. He's not quick enough to get himself into good positions. I can't fault his effort in his Everton career, but he's got to go. It was obvious from the very start of the season when he was playing terribly and Silva wouldn't drop him. He's just not as quick, ergo not as effective.

Schneiderlin is a different matter. I think he hides. I think he does it a lot. He just shouldn't be playing.

For all the immense amount of shit Davies gets, and yes, I am a huge fan of his, he never, ever hides. Nor did Holgate when introduced in midfield. Bernard and Rich don't. And again, another much maligned player, Iwobe, never hides either.

I think my new barometer for what our starting lineup is, is whether the person hides. In short, decapitate the hiding players from the lineup. Play the players that put in the effort and will take responsibility.

Mike Gaynes
306 Posted 09/01/2020 at 21:39:59
Good barometer, Jamie. I like it.
Mick Davies
307 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:14:31
We lost players like Gueye and McCarthy and never replaced them - leaders, who will die for the cause; is there a player like that in the middle of the park now at Everton FC? Definitely not, so it's hardly a surprise we get turned over by a bunch of kids
Christy Ring
308 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:30:14
Mick @307, I know I'm like a scratched record, but Silva never gave him a chance and Brands sold him for £3m, playing regularly with Palace now, he would have shamed Delph and Schneiderlin, playing at Analfield last Sunday, remember the last time, he played against them? Took no prisoners, it's called pride and passion.
Richard Hamilton
309 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:34:01
They tried passing it out from the back against City and Liverpool. They're just nowhere near good enough to play that type of football.. Yet hopefully. Lump it up to the big lads or sign some midfielders that the defence can link with
Paul Corbishley
310 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:34:30
For Everton Sunday was possibly the lowest point in years, almost decades it's that bad, Saturday will be interesting as injuries dictate he must play some of those cowardly midfielders, Delph, Sigurdson or Schniederlin.

I hate the players right now, fucking hate them not because they got beat but because I don't think there arsed and that's not on.

And no I won't be getting behind them, I done that in the Anfield Road end last Sunday for 95 mins. I will stand in silence on the Gwladys Street as they come out and reserve my fucking judgement on the c**ts but will let them know if I feel there is a lack of effort or will to win. Defeat is always acceptable but surrender is never ever acceptable and should be called out.

If we win then I will simply think they have done there job and leave

It will take time to heal this but it's not the supporters or the new management who have caused it it's those pricks at FF, not all of them but enough of them

Jay Wood

311 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:47:45
Not surprisingly, there has been a maelstrom of opinions and articles since Sunday's game, further compounded by:

* Siggy's 'disappointed' comment
* Delph's social media swearing match
* Reports that some players resented Dunc sounding off at them post-match, denying the charge they had meekly surrendered the game and blaming instead the tactics
* Fans turning up at Finch Farm and meeting with Brands

The manager's selection and the tactics against the 'bours have been questioned, as has the commitment and ability of the players. For me, Tom Davies alone in the starting XI would have made a huge difference to how the game was played.

But what we don't know is how fit and able he was to participate. Duncan said in his four games Tom was playing with a knock. He has played with a bandaged knee. Carlo has used him more sparingly possibly because of that rather than risking a longer term injury.

Tom would have shown, fetched and carried time and again to facilitate the transition from defence to midfield to attack. I didn't need to be with the 8,000 Blues filling the Anfield end to 'see' (the TV view didn't show it) that increasingly the back four had no-one showing to collect the ball from them which resulted in me-to-you-to-him-to-them turnover of the ball.

If it's true that senior PL footballers are claiming they aren't capable of receiving, retaining and passing on the ball played up to them from their defenders, then they are not worthy of the name professional footballers.

Hell's teeth! I played midfield at a low level and I ALWAYS showed for the ball! Indeed, I made it very clear to defenders who wouldn't pass the ball to me if I was marked that is EXACTLY what I wanted! I backed myself to protect the ball, draw the opponent in and beat him with a turn or lay off.

Are some of our highly paid players claiming they aren't capable of the same???

The players and the fans need to embrace and accept under Carlo Ancelotti we WILL play out from the back. If indeed any players blamed the tactics, saying we can't play that way, then they have very short memories.

They had spells under Silva when they did it very effectively. The first three games under Carlo they did it very well against Burnley and Newcastle, more mixed against England's team of the decade in Man City as you would expect.

For some to be already dismissing Ancelotti as a bad fit for Everton strikes me as way too premature. The man has had four games in 15 days, barely time to train or prepare for each game.

Moshiri has given him a 4.5 year contract, the longest initial contract Everton has handed a new manager in the PL era.

The long-term investment then is in the manager, coinciding with (hopefully) the approval and building of the new stadium.

Moshiri himself recently said he expected to spend just 5% of his time overseeing Everton, not 90%. One of the reasons he has needed to be so heavily involved is due to his own successive poor managerial appointments on the football side.

Giving Carlo 4.5 years is Moshiri signalling he wants an experienced safe pair of hands steering the football side of things, leaving him free to focus on the commercial and financial arm of the club and business.

These exceedingly trying few days reinforces my view that Moshiri will be backing the manager more than the players. To do otherwise potentially risks our very existence as a PL club.

Some claim Carlo Ancelotti is a fading force. That he 'lost' the players at his last two clubs. This ignores a body of evidence that suggests otherwise.

Even the Bayern Munich president Uli Hoeness who pulled the trigger on Carlo Ancelotti's time at Bayern had no issues with the man himself, but with his backroom staff. Hoeness said:

"It definitely didn't work out with Ancelotti's backup staff. With Carlo, everything was fine, but there were arguments of some kind every day between Ancelotti's physios, medical staff and coaches."

Carlo Ancelotti waited a month or two before making any sort of public statement on his dismissal from the German champions, saying:

"I have a way of working that I do not change. It was demanded of me to do that, and I simply did not accept it. Whatever decision you make, if the club does not protect you, you're dead.

"If you sort out a player, he then goes to the club and is strengthened by them, then you lose face with him in front of the other players. You will not recover from that.”

In short, it's going to be Carlo's Way or the highway for a lot of players at Everton.

And I for one am ready to fully embrace it, accepting bumps in the road along the way.

George Stuart
312 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:50:05
Time to ruin a career or two. An example, if you will.
Make one of the twats train with the kids, permanently.
Make another one gather splinters on the bench until May. A nice touch might be to consistently put them on with a minute to go, winning, losing or drawing.
They might laugh at their wine bars on 100k plus for doing nothing but they will know its the end of their careers. "Wern't you the guy who ruined Everton"? "Old chap".
I'm fairly certain Ferguson ruined a few careers at Utd. For pissing him off.
George Stuart
313 Posted 09/01/2020 at 22:55:24
Tony(304) got me to thinking. Do they still announce the players before a game ?
I don't see that bit here in Aussie.
If so, I'm not a booing sort of fan, but I'd be booing one name for sure. It begins with S.
George Stuart
314 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:01:59
Oh. While I'm ranting, I seem to remember a then junior member of the team, cant remember who, but we were losing at half time or drawing when we should be winning. Big Dunc threw his water bottle at the wall, uttered industrial language. All the younger players knew not to go anywhere near him.
Does he still play in the training games?
I just thought of another way he could end the career of an over paid under performer.
Steve Ferns
315 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:08:46
Jay, Carlo Ancelotti differs from other managers, like Silva, who tend to turn up with a group of set coaches who go from club to club. Ancelotti instead assimilates into what's already there. This is easier when he goes to top clubs and they have top coaches and when they fire the manager, they keep the coaches. For example, Hermann Gerling has been at Bayern for decades. At Real, Ancelotti promoted a little known youth coach called Zidane and made him his assistant. At Chelsea he worked with Ray Wilkins and quickly made Paul Clement a key part of his coaching setup.

The only constant Carlo Ancelotti kept from his early days was Giovanni Mauri. This was his close friend and fitness coach. Giovanni was the one who bared the brunt of the criticism at Bayern. The players weren't fit enough, well Mauri was the fitness coach. After Bayern, Mauri retired.

Mauri is actually an excellent fitness coach and now he is retired and it is no longer relevant as to how up to date he was, you can look back on his career and say that for him to work with 7 out of 8 of the Ballon d'Or winners shows that he knew a thing or two about keeping the world's best players fit enough to be consistently the best. If you're wondering who the one missing from the 8 was, well he never coached Messi. He did coach Cristiano Ronaldo Aveiro. Cristiano sad of the criticism that he did not train the players enough: "Too much water kills the plants!". And who are we to argue with a man who is a physical specimen and has been at the top for so long, when peers like Rooney have long been in decline.

Giovanni's own assistant was his son Francesco Mauri. And Ancelotti took Francesco to Napoli and now to Everton in his dad's old role of head of fitness. If indeed it was Giovanni who got out of date, then a new young fitness coach could address some of the criticism Carlo received, because much of it was to do with the intensity of the training and the fitness of the players.

I still would like to see a renowned technical coach come into the club to work with our players and sort them out. A man to be handpicked by Carlo, of course, even someone like Clement. But someone who is full of energy and ideas and can transmit that into the players.

Steve Ferns
316 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:10:53
George (#304), yes they do. But they no longer keep one guy out of order until last, for extra applause, like they used to with Duncan Ferguson.
George Stuart
317 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:21:26
Just checked the Mirror wages story. Interesting that the merit table, Richarldson excepted, seems mostly to be the inverse of the paycheque.
Given the list, I wonder how Jonjoe Kenny would have played last Sunday? Not the greatest player but how would he have approached the game ?
Conor Skelly
318 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:36:08
Looks like Brands has masterminded another loan. How many players has he actually sold since arriving? Isn't that his primary objective?
Tom Bowers
319 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:43:06
I don't think Schneiderlin hides, it's just that he, like a few others are not good enough and is easy to beat. Even Holgate gets caught flat footed on the turn as he did several times in the last few games.

Schneiderlin is probably the worst of all the many good players that have left Southampton over the last 20 years and he had to end up here.

Saturday's game against Brighton will be a nervous affair as I am sure quite a few players will be suffering a mental hangover and will be extra cautious not to make mistakes and incur the wrath of the Goodison faithful.

Of course it all depends on what has happened behind the scenes and what the starting eleven will be.

Many of the sides close to Everton in the table are much the same and will be difficult to beat as the bottom half of the table sorts itself out with each struggling team not wanting to drop into the bottom three by Easter.

On paper at least, the next few games give opportunities for points to be picked up and one hopes Carlo can get them back on track.

Brian Williams
320 Posted 09/01/2020 at 23:45:53
Schneiderlin hides alright. Have watched himm closely for the last couple of seasons and my close seated neighbours at the game are fed up of me pointing out how he positions himself so as not be available to receive the ball. Has done it time and time again!
Paul Corbishley
321 Posted 10/01/2020 at 00:48:45
Brighton at home, a nervous affair, how and why? They should be beaten no excuse.

And Schniederlin does fucking hide, watch him fall over then try to get back on his feet as the shite score last Sunday.

Jamie Crowley
322 Posted 10/01/2020 at 01:10:01
Tom Bowers @ 319 -

Schneiderlin most definitely hides.

I can't count the number of times he passed the ball, then just waltzed over to a position where he couldn't receive it.

And for anyone saying he's a chess player, and was thinking one pass ahead, you're nuts.

Derek Knox
323 Posted 09/01/2020 at 04:10:55
Not only does Schneiderlin hide, he manages to disappear completely, it's amazing but true folks. I have often as many others I'm sure have too, watched a game and have really struggled to spot him anywhere!
James Hughes
324 Posted 10/01/2020 at 04:11:24
I have to agree with Jamie & Brian. Seen too many times Schneiderlin pretend to want he ball, while putting an opponent between him and his teammate.

I am not a big fan of slating our players and I don't know why Tom gets the abuse he has. However with Morgan the gloves are off. The man is a disgrace and in the past two seasons if you count the good games he has had, well I doubt you would make double figures

Annika Herbert
325 Posted 10/01/2020 at 05:14:31
Bobby@ 286, Sigurdsson is a good player!!? Well he has done a damn fine job of disguising that fact all season
Darren Hind
326 Posted 10/01/2020 at 05:19:56
"I have a way of working, I do not change"

Oh dear.

Jim Harrison
327 Posted 10/01/2020 at 05:21:05
I tried to like Morgan. Tried to see positives. But too often he has just looked off the pace, lacking commitment.

Its time for him to go now. The club need to tell him it over and to find a new club for himself.

Ajay Gopal
328 Posted 10/01/2020 at 05:47:33
Steve (315), if Carlo were to get in a Technical Coach, as you suggest, then where do you think Duncan would fit in? Or, would he then become surplus to requirements? (Too many cooks spoil the broth,. etc)
Paul Tran
329 Posted 10/01/2020 at 06:57:49
Darren #326, I think & hope he was referring to how he works with the club. In that regard, I'd say we need someone robust right now.
Nick Page
330 Posted 10/01/2020 at 07:51:05
Need we wonder who these “senior figures” are who disagreed with Ferguson? Would it be the same senior figure and his merry band of sycophants that have been hanging around the clubs neck like a giant millstone for the last 20 years? As they say in Russia, a fish rots from the head and until they're all gone, nothing will change.
Paul A Smith
331 Posted 10/01/2020 at 09:17:27
Just think, if you wanted to start your own website or sports page and Everton was your main topic you could easily start a wild fire conspiracy on assumption alone.

For instance we lose to a team we should have beaten, that happen to be our Neighbours, big dunc is an angry passionate die hard at the best of times, so quite obviously, he won't have liked this.

Surely he kicked off.

Then there is the players reaction. Delph alone. An online chat becomes public knowledge between Delph and fan.
Oh right, so that must mean Ferguson focused on senior players.
Coronation street drama is developing.

This player has surely said its not my fault, he wont accept any of the blame. He argues with fans.

Before you know it, a lovely story with not one legitimate voice.

Then to top off the reality of drama, Sigurdsson does an interview you can all see clearly, you know its him and his words but its not interesting enough.

The best stuff is the wild arguments of denial that nobody can see or prove.

What a cesspit of gossip.

Paul A Smith
332 Posted 10/01/2020 at 09:27:35
No Nick. This shit has got to stop.
I am sick to death of empty shite destroying this fanbase.

Nick has just made me cringe with anger.
The Daily fucking star and 4 days later you want to quote that nonsense.

The Headline says Senior figures. Then the story says Senior players before going back to Senior figures.

Get a grip on your Kenwright obsession. That is dragging us down as much as Scheiderlin.
How can a grown man fall for a Daily Star rambling 4 or 5 days after the event. After they have gathered everyone elses rumours.

I am close to spewing this game its full of gluttons and empty rumours. I wanted Bramley Moore 60 thousand but I wish it was 10 000 now.

Jonathan Tasker
333 Posted 10/01/2020 at 09:31:24
Brands needs to be fired.
He's a total fraud.
Bar Richarlison every single player he has brought in has been very expensive shite.

Team selection tomorrow will be interesting.
If Walcott is anywhere near the squad I think Ancelotti is heading for trouble.
And yes the manager has to take a lot of the blame for last week. And yes I didn't want him and he is the Italian Walter Smith.

Steve Ferns
334 Posted 10/01/2020 at 09:34:24
Nick Page, no. Certainly not. It fits in with what I was told earlier in the season, that certain members of the coaching staff believe Ferguson to be too aggressive and made complaints about his methods beforehand, and effectively tried to get him sidelined.

Think about the background of certain authoritative figures and how in their previous jobs they would have had to enforce rules that would apply differently to an office than to a dressing room.

This effectively skipped the head of the football department. Said head was rumoured to be very upset that people below him were going to people above him, using let's call it "personal relationships". He told said person that this was his remit and that it was for him to deal with. He then had a meeting with Duncan Ferguson and told him to keep doing what he's doing.

Treat the above as unsubstantiated rumour.

Chris Mason
335 Posted 10/01/2020 at 10:06:30
We should start a new Ultras group:

The Masochistas

Steve just spell it out mate. Who is meant to have said what?

Paul A Smith
336 Posted 10/01/2020 at 10:27:32
I know the groundsman that is related to the toffeegirl and she said a steward said to one of the clubs admin staff that he had heard a conversation between the manager of Everton 1 and the sales assistant at Everton 2 saying that Ferguson swears.

If this was a follower based site I would have numbers like One of the Kardashians for that tale.

Paul A Smith
337 Posted 10/01/2020 at 10:30:19
Chris, its EVERTON Futile Club now mate.
Jay Wood

338 Posted 10/01/2020 at 10:46:53
Clear evidence that the board did as the curt official club message indicated when speculation was rife on who was to be appointed the next manager.

They announced that a number of candidates had been interviewed and that none had ruled themselves out.

Unai Emery confirms he had a 3 hour interview with us, that he did not say no to the possibility of being our next manager and that Everton had already expressed an interest in him when he moved to PSG.


I hope this passes Paul A Smith's rigorous quality control restraints as to what counts as legitimate gossip, news and post on TW.

Paul A Smith
339 Posted 10/01/2020 at 10:59:24
Brilliant Jay you found a story non related to the predicament we are in to prove the odd story is true. Wonderful.

A clear piece of the subject actually being quoted makes your sarcasm look shite. I clearly aimed the speculation at everything with no source but as usual, you come on here for your daily shot at being smart whilst missing the point.

Conor McCourt
340 Posted 10/01/2020 at 11:22:02
I agree with Jay 311 in many regards;
1-Carlo will play from the back and is fruitless to want otherwise.
2-short term pain may be necessary if we are working to improve and aim to be ready to hit the ground running in September.
3-this can't be done with S and S in midfield. Both Silva and Carlo seem unsure on Tom but whereas when Silva didn't have the power to enforce Scneids out in the summer, I have no doubt Carlo will get his way.

However I have clear concerns if Carlo has come to this job with the hunger of a man who has had questions asked of him in both his previous roles. He seems to be struggling to inspire the players despite his legendary status and as Steve says he doesn't seem interested in modernising his coaching staff or addressing areas of previous concern.

I was even pleasantly surprised by Moyes at his unveiling when he spoke of how he needed to evolve and that he spent his time out studying the techniques and methods of clubs under the Red Bull banner and how he learned a lot and planned to be play a more dynamic, expansive style. Words mean nothing but they are an indication of mindset but of course the proof will be in the pudding.

Jay isn't worried about the suitability of Carlo because he has only been here 15 days and hasn't had enough time with the players and that's a very valid comment. He also places a lot of stock on how others regard him. I think what Jay doesn't take into enough consideration is the personality, respect and likeability of Carlo however your staff are a reflection of you and your professionalism. At City for example everything is strategic and tailored to supporting the players and their needs so that Guardiola can remain aloof.

Jay is right in that we have no choice but to embrace Carlo, bumps and all but I feel the players and fans need to feel we are in the presence of a Champion and not have to look at his CV to tell us that.

Tony Abrahams
341 Posted 10/01/2020 at 11:57:48
I agree with the fans having to feel the presence of a champion Conor, but not all of those players though mate. Champions can see right through the half-hearted and even though Brands, has struggled to sell loads of our shite, at least he's managed to get them away from the club, but if Ancellotti has still got the desire to be a winner, then Brands should be the busiest man at the club, over the next 3 weeks.

I was watching a re-run of the wire yesterday, the one were Mike, the man of Italian heritage, goes to see a fortune teller because he's been put under a bit of pressure, because he no longer knows how to do his job, and although it made me laugh, my obvious thoughts were I hope that doesn't happen to Ancellotti!

Jay Wood

342 Posted 10/01/2020 at 12:58:49
Paul @ 339.

" usual, you come on here for your daily shot at being smart whilst missing the point."

Oh, the delicious irony and hypocrisy.

Unlike you Paul, I never take a sanctimonious, holier-then-thou and know-it-all attitude towards fellow TWers in my posts. You do.

I never claim to be the sole purveyor of the final, absolute and definitive word on all matters Evertonian. You do.

I never claim to be more insightful, more knowledgable or smarter than other Blues. You do.

I never cast myself in the role of the victim, claiming deeper insight than others are ever capable of, constantly self-promoting myself as always being proved right. You do.

You want a free hand to constantly bait and sneer at fellow Blues who views differ from your own for merely having the audacity for expressing such views on an open forum. But you go all pouty-lippy when even just mildly poked.

Personally, I find you contribute little or nothing of interest or originality on the core subject of TW: football.

The bulk of your posts are in the main tediously self-promoting, abusive to fellow Blues, elevating yourself as a wiser seer than all others on TW.

I embrace the very broad church of opinion that makes TW as vibrant as it is. You, by contrast, resent it.

Viva la diferencia.

Paul A Smith
343 Posted 10/01/2020 at 13:37:15
Jay you stoop to throwing the editors in conversations you can't deal with. I get things wrong, I thought you were a worm for doing that but after trawling the net for an unrelated story to this thread, to try and pull my post down I realise you are more of a snake.

Its so fucking laughable you using words like Superior, with your superior countdown conundrum posts full of careful grammar and self satisfaction.

I have had stick but you always manage to miss that and when I retaliate oh hes being superior.

Snobbery and double standards make me laugh. Oxford dictionary readers that stream Everton games and call the editors for back up are quite comical aswell.

Tat ta

Jay Wood

344 Posted 10/01/2020 at 13:55:32
Paul, gibberish and invention, continuing to play the victim card and thinking it's all about 'you'.


Gordon Adie
345 Posted 11/01/2020 at 00:58:50
Seconds out.

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