Tosun: Everybody is so sad for Gomes

Sunday, 3 November, 2019 75comments  |  Jump to last

Oli Scarff/AFP/Getty

Cenk Tosun has described how he tried to comfort André Gomes after his team-mate was left with a broken ankle following a reckless tackle by Tottenham's Son Hueng-min in the 1-1 draw at Goodison Park today.

Gomes was felled in full flight by the South Korean and sustained what tests have revealed to be a fracture dislocation to his right ankle as his landing foot caught in the turf before a heavy collision with the covering defender, Serge Aurier. He will have surgery tomorrow.

The incident initially resulted in a yellow card for Son but controversial referee Martin Atkinson changed his decision to a red, either on the immediate advice from the Video Assistant Referee, Anthony Taylor, the fourth official on the sidelines or simply due to the severity of Gomes's injury.

Gomes was visibly in shock as fans in the Family Enclosure turned away or covered their eyes and Son had to be led down the tunnel distraught while the Everton midfielder was surrounded by team-mates and medical staff before being stretchered off the field to be taken to Aintree Hospital for treatment.

“Everybody is so sad inside,” said Tosun, who recovered to head home the Toffees' equaliser near the end of a terrible game that gained neither side much credit. “Some players, they nearly cried.

“[André] was in shock. His eyes were open so big. He was crying, shouting and screaming. I just tried to hold him and speak to him; I tried to tell him to stay calm. We couldn't understand him. He was the one who had got the injury.

"It will be a tough time for Andre but sometimes in football, these injuries happen.

"I just hope and pray he comes back stronger after his surgery. We will give him the motivation he needs. My goal is for him, the point is for him. If we had a few minutes more, we would have won it for him.

"I will see him in hospital. I was so happy, I was waiting such a long time for this goal and I could not even enjoy it. This goal is for him, for sure."

The circumstances surrounding the horror injury to Gomes, one that looks likely to cost him a year of his career at least, were just a part of a match that was officiated badly by Atkinson and ruined by yet more VAR controversy. Taylor was called upon in Stockley Park to review three potential penalty incidents, all three of which were deemed not to be fouls even though there was clear contact on Richarlison by Aurier for one and an even more obvious handball by Dele Alli in another.

The Alli incident, subsequently explained by the Premier League as not being a penalty because Yerry Mina's presence supposedly caused Alli to handle the ball, took three minutes of review by VAR before a decision was handed back to Atkinson, further undermining the credibility and usefulness of a tool that has failed Everton on two successive weekends.

“It is really tough for us to talk about what has happened on the pitch,” said Marco Silva, who was forced to accept a dubious penalty decision by VAR that went against Michael Keane at Brighton last weekend. “What I want to tell you, all of us love football and we play for our fans and I am 100 percent sure they didn't like what they saw this afternoon.

“In the second half, so many moments to stop the game. The penalty from Dele Alli, was 3 minutes to decide. They have to be more clear. They saw their team last week lose the game, one penalty coming from nowhere, and this afternoon is completely the opposite.

“It was not just the Dele Alli situation. I saw all the moments and I have opinions on all of them. How it is possible 3 minutes to decide? Me, the club, we respect the referees, tough job, and we respect the VAR as well. I know they want the best but it is up to them to decide.”

On Gomes, Silva said he was waiting to learn of the extent of the injury but photographs of the aftermath of Son's tackle left no doubt that he had suffered an awful injury.

“He's gone to hospital. Our medical staff are in control. This is a bad moment for us and our team — this was [about] more than a football game. We will give all support to André and his family.

"I didn't see the moment. I saw him there on the floor and saw nothing more. I can't talk to you about the incident because I didn't see the images until now.

"We showed fantastic team spirit. It's the most important thing. It was a really tough game but we showed great character, particularly late on."

Son Hueng-min catches André Gomes with a late lunge that ends with the Portuguese suffering a horrible leg fracture during today's 1-1 draw with Tottenham

For his part, Spurs boss, Mauricio Pochettino, said that he was hoping that review of the Son incident would prompt the Football Association to rescind the forward's automatic red card.

A statement by the League, however, that explained that VAR's decision on a red for Son was for “endangering the safety of a player which happened as a consequence of his initial challenge,” suggests that such an appeal could fall on deaf ears.

“Son was devastated,” Pochettino said. “The players (Seamus Coleman and Tosun) from Everton came to console him. Of course, in the moment, it was a little bit confusing.

“No one knows on the pitch when it was an action. The action was very, very bad luck.”


Reader Comments (75)

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Daniel A Johnson
1 Posted 03/11/2019 at 23:40:26
I must congratulate Tosun today.

He was first on the scene with Gomes looking after him and rather than being upset/disturbed by what he witnessed it fired him up and he got the goal.

You were a credit to the blue shirt today mate.

Danny Broderick
2 Posted 03/11/2019 at 23:43:26
I just had a thought while reading this. Gomes has had a terrible injury, I can't get the image of him lying there in shock holding his leg out of my head. It makes me even more annoyed with Richarlison, who must have been on the turf rolling around in apparent agony at least ten times today, only to jump up and make a miraculous recovery every time.

Pretending to be injured all the time and then being absolutely fine 2 minutes later is really starting to grate on me.

My thoughts are obviously with Gomes - I wish he makes a full recovery, but I also hope that Richarlison stops his childish and stupid behaviour.

Daniel A Johnson
3 Posted 03/11/2019 at 23:49:25
Richarlison was never obviously read the story about the child that cried wolf. By hitting the deck with every bump he gets its just petulance in the extreme. It automatically makes Refs weary, yet when he does get genuine contact the refs doubt him. It's a problem of his own making and I hope he's being blasted behind the scenes for it.
Karl Masters
4 Posted 03/11/2019 at 00:04:52
Richarlison might have got that decision when he was apparently tripped when clean through near the end if he didn't keep rolling around when he's not hurt.

Poor Andre and poor us. We look so much better with him in the team.

Mark Guglielmo
5 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:09:51
Danny @2 what an excellent observation about the dichotomy between a legit injury and whatever it is that Richy thinks he's doing. In retrospect it's really disrespectful to things like what happened to Gomes today. I'm fed up with it too.
Steve Ferns
6 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:10:00
He's the boy who carried wolf personified in blue. I could stomach the diving better if he got back up straight away. He often lies on the grass for a good minute or so as play goes on. He's clearly not injured. We are a man down. The refs never change their mind. What he's doing is harming his team. Silva should drop him to teach him a lesson. Tosun to start the next game with sigurdsson in for Gomes and the rest the same.
Brent Stephens
7 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:11:54
Absolutely Richie's antics are deplorable. So fecking obvious. Stop it or feck off.
Mark Guglielmo
8 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:16:27
Steve @6 completely agreed. I think Richy needs a complete dress down and to lose his spot in the XI until a future date to be announced. Of course that won't happen because he's one of Silva's favorites. But one can hope.
Daniel A Johnson
9 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:21:51
Richarlison needs to realise the premiership is rough and tumble, he can either adapt or go to LaLiga or Serie A.

He needs to do some hold up play coaching with big Dunc only big dunc should be armed with knuckle dusters and a helmet.

Danny Broderick
10 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:46:24
I agree Steve (6),

I hope Richarlison is dropped for a game to teach him a lesson. We must have spent over 5 minutes playing with 10 men today because he was rolling around with nothing wrong with him.

The irony is, a couple of weeks ago, Sidibe got clattered and was on the floor off the pitch injured. At which point, Richarlison went over to him and told him to get up! He then dragged him back onto the pitch to defend the corner!

His play acting is starting to affect the team getting decisions now in my opinion. It has to be stopped.

David Pearl
11 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:59:49
Danny, l wondered last week who that was that picked Sidibe up as l couldn't see. Shocked that was Richarlison. Yep, he needs dropping and we need 11 players all on the same wavelength next week and to give it everything.

We can't play ourselves into form with fingers crosses. Get the attitude right. Last chance Silva.

Gordon Crawford
12 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:08:28
Awful situation, I hope he will fully recover.

As for Richarlison, I'm starting to get fed up with him, all he does is dive and fall over. Yes, there are sometimes when it's genuine, but like others have said, “he is the boy who cries wolf”. Shameful.

Mark Guglielmo
13 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:08:59
What do we think our best XI is given this rash of injuries? Everything I come up with has someone out of his best spot. Especially since I think Richarlison needs a spell on the bench.

Sidibe Mina Holgate Digne
Davies Delph
Walcott ???? ????

Who plays striker? Since it's clear it won't be Kean (despite having literally nothing to lose at this point), is it Calvert-Lewin? Does Sigurdsson come back in, thinking maybe Davies can make up for his lack of pace? Where does Iwobi play, considering he's far more effective in the middle than wide left?

And where does that leave our bench? Probably no better time to see what Gordon can do. People want Gibson but over Mina or Holgate? I dunno anymore.

Honestly I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

Bill Gienapp
14 Posted 04/11/2019 at 03:05:43
Richarlison seemed to have curbed the pantomiming over the second half of last season, I'm not sure why it's flared up again. He really seemed to get into his own head today, like he was obsessed with seeing Aurier get whistled at all costs.

Glad to see Tosun getting some love. Whatever his limitations, by all accounts he's been an exemplary teammate and you can tell how badly he wants to make a positive impact every time he comes onto the pitch.

John Hammond
15 Posted 04/11/2019 at 08:07:29
Richarlison's antics are pure and simple frustration. When things aren't going his way, rather than harness it he lets it get to his head. He's clearly a sensitive lad. He need to take a step back and figure out what he needs to do.

Such a horrible thing to witness but you'd hope having seen Gomes injury it'll jolt him into growing up a bit and cutting out the nonsense. He could also do with having a good look at how Tosun conducts himself as he must be immensely frustrated. Whatever anyone thinks of him his attitude is first class and has my full respect.

Best wishes and a swift recovery Andre. Couldn't have happened to bigger heart.

Gerry Quinn
16 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:26:55
Sorry, posted this on one of the other storylines...

On a slightly different thread - Richarlison and his persistent diving or injury feigning.
Does anybody in Everton or Brazilian management or coaching ever speak to this guy about it?

I find it embarrassing and have always detested others doing it (including Ronaldo and Suarez mainly) as it is an awful form of cheating that the FA seem to have only punished one man for (Niasse) - nobody since...

I feel almost certain that Richie will be the next one the FA charge and ban - and rightly so.

Silva, or whoever, take him aside and tell him to fucking grow up and STOP the play acting and diving NOW

Laurie Hartley
17 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:42:41
I am absolutely gutted for Andre Gomes. My heart goes out to him.

No doubt he will have the best medical treatment available but he is going to need a lot more than that to get over this. He will need all the support we can give him.

Dreadful business all round.

Jamie Crowley
19 Posted 04/11/2019 at 13:17:29
I have to say on this thread, as there were so many comments on Michael's matchday thread about this, I agree 100% with the people who believe Gomes' injury is 100% Son's fault.

And it was, for me, without question, an absolute "shithouse" thing to do, as you would say.

Now, I understand that particular phrase carries some weight with Scousers culturally. I'd like to be very clear, I'm using the word "shithouse" explicitly and with purpose.

To say Son "isn't that type of player" ignores the facts. To say, "it wasn't the contact with Son that broke Andres' leg" borders on ridiculous.

Son was pissed off at the accidental arm to the face he took. When the opportunity presented itself, he chased Andre down, and put in a disgusting tackle from behind with absolutely zero chance of winning the ball. Zero. And he knew it. It was premeditated and executed with malice. It was a tackle meant to injure. Shithouse.

For those saying, "it wasn't the contact with Son that broke Andres leg"? Let me ask you a rhetorical question.

If Son doesn't put that tackle in, the premeditated one meant to injure our player and arguably best midfielder, does Gomes finish the game and walk off the pitch? You bet he does.

I don't think I've ever been so "gobsmacked" or frankly disgusted by my fellow TWers than I have over this instance.

One of our own is felled like an axe through a tree, with premeditation and malice, intending to injure, and some come on to quickly excuse the behavior of this wickedness? You're joking, right?

His leg was snapped in half and ankle turned 45 degrees due strictly one only to this evil, foul, premeditated, violent, from-behind, disgusting challenge.

Shithouse. Only one way to see this for me.

If Son played hockey, he'd never, ever play another game for the rest of his career against Everton without getting the absolute shit kicked out of him.

I swear to God I'd pull a Roy Keane on him. Without reservation I'd do it.


And that's my opinion on the matter, actually intentionally waiting 24 hours to cool down on the matter.

Stan Schofield
20 Posted 04/11/2019 at 13:34:19
I'm no drama queen, and I've seen a lot of bad injuries, but what happened to Gomes shook me. Not just for the severity of what happened, but because of the type of player he is. I'd only written two days before that in my opinion he's technically the most gifted midfielder we've had since Colin Harvey, and to me Harvey personified the spirit of Everton. Style, class, elegance and sportsmanship. So it's a massive blow to lose a player of Gomes' undoubted quality.

The above is selfish of course, focusing on Everton's current loss. But above all, just as this player seems to have found a home where he's appreciated (even adored by many) after his travails at Barca, this happens to him. We can only pray, primarily for his sake but also for Everton's, that he can come back from this and be the same player.

Regarding Richarlison, I too don't like his diving. Diving is helping ruin the game. But what I will also say is that he is often a prime target from dirty players, who will quite readily hack him down. It happened so much last season, including in the Spurs match away. That dirty play went largely unpunished. But the only way he can deal with this is to stop diving, otherwise the dirty tactics against him are more likely to continue going unpunished. He needs more discipline.

Rob Hooton
21 Posted 04/11/2019 at 13:43:36
Well said Jamie, there are many expletives I could use but shall refrain from doing so!

As for Richarlison, he is quite simply an idiot and I can't stand him at the moment, I hope he cuts it out before he gets some serious treatment from the crowd. He might have won a few fouls were it not for his play acting (or downright cheating to be honest), he spent more time on the floor than the ball...

Tony Abrahams
22 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:07:45
Football is all about discipline imo Stan, and Richarlison has already made the rod for his own back, and needs to have a good look at himself, and his team-mates should be the ones who are telling him.

Continuously going down is only playing into the opposition's hands, and is also costing us key decisions most weeks.

He hasn't cried Wolfe yet though, he's just getting on everyone's nerves, especially when you see a player get a real serious injury, an injury that makes it impossible for a player to move, and I just hope Gomes, can make a full and complete recovery, and hope his young team-mate, can learn something positive in this very unfortunate process, which has sickened everyone.

Steve Ferns
23 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:18:24
Tony, he had a good shout for a foul at the death. It would have been a red card if given. We didn't get it. I sit in the park so I was amazed to see that we should have (or could have) had two penalties for incidents in the Gwladys Street box. But no one by me was shouting for the pen, we were all shouting to get up.

I can understand the diving, trying to con the ref to get an advantage. I don't like it, but I can understand it. What I cannot understand is the playacting, the rolling around, and all this whilst the game is still going on and we have just a minute or two to win the game. The moment has passed. The free kick or penalty has gone, it will not be given. Get up and get on with it.

Andy Johnson was a diver. But down he went and up he got. He also "won" far more penalties than Richarlison. I just cannot understand what's in his mind. I can understand it's a "culture thing" if he goes down initially. That perhaps he does it without thinking, because that's "just how it is" in Brazil. I don't know how true that is, but people have said it in the past. But if you do go down without thinking, when you are rolling around for a good minute, you have plenty of time to think, get up and get on with it. You're fooling no one and harming your team who now have 10 men.

Dave Brierley
24 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:28:24
Jamie 19. Wholeheartedly agree with every word.

Sad indictment of football today that Tottenham look likely to appeal the red card. It's days like these that make you reflect what a horrible 'sport' this has become.

Tony Abrahams
25 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:45:26
I love reading your posts, Jamie, I love your honesty and I love the passion you have got for “the blues” but I didn't think it was what I would call a shithouse tackle, even though I thought he was a little shithouse for his dive, which definitely should have been punished once the decision went to VAR.

I might be wrong, Jamie, because I haven't really watched it properly since, but I'm pretty certain this type of tackle goes on every week, where one player is a little bit too quick or clever for his opponent, and I honestly feel that some of these very fast pitches are now also bordering on dangerous.

Maybe you are right, maybe a player shouldn't stretch for the ball once his opponent has gone past him, but I left Goodison yesterday with a feeling that the game “I knew and loved” has changed completely and it left me feeling nearly as sad as I felt for Gomes, and I felt absolutely terrible for him yesterday.

Kieran Kinsella
26 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:52:03
Tosun showed leadership and character both with his reaction to the injury and also the goal. He also had an assist the other night versus Watford. He seems to be serious about proving himself at Everton and not one of these happy just to pick up a paycheck if they're not playing.

Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:53:13
I thought Richarlison got kicked a few times yesterday, Steve, and think he was hard-done-by on at least a couple of occasions. I also think that's why people are so fucking fed-up with him, because his theatrical antics are costing Everton.

It's easy to understand why he never got the decisions that he should have got yesterday, because he has become a little cheating diving bastard, and nobody likes a cheat.

Kieran Kinsella
28 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:02:13
It's interesting reading the debate as some have likened it to general UK law. Imagine if you and your mates walked into a pub an punched five guys each in the face. Your five victims laugh it off, four of mate Number Ones victims laugh it off but the fifth has a blood clot and dies, meanwhile all of mate number twos victims all drop dead.

Legally, I imagine you'd be charged with assault, mate 2 with manslaughter, while some would try to charge mate 3 as a serial killer.

However, Dermot Gallagher was arguing on Sky that as opposed to general UK law, football law is concerned only with what you did and not the outcome. So from his perspective, a foul of this type is a yellow even if it sets in sequence a series of events that cripple a man.

As a former referee myself (lower level) that's something that there seems to be a lot of disagreement about among refs. Generally, most refs I know seem to factor the outcome of the foul into the decision.

I am unclear if what Gallagher says is fact, but I suspect it's one of these many grey areas where, in different parts of the worlds and leagues, people develop their own hard and fast understanding of rules that are perhaps deliberately ambiguous.

It also is interesting if you consider the lawsuit between Paul Elliot and Dean Saunders. The latter wasn't particularly chastised within the football arena but legally Elliot had a strong enough case to take him to court for causing injuries that ended his career.

Steve Ferns
29 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:02:19
Tony, do you not think that Son was out for revenge? If a player has revenge on his mind, then the tackle is usually dangerous, and pre-meditated. The way he waited out of position for Gomes makes me believe it was so. Also the way he lunged at Gomes. It could only be red. It was sly. He deserves none of this sympathy he is getting from the national media. It's almost as if he is the victim.

Tony, agree with what you said about Richarlison. I think he might be our best player. More so without Gomes, and with Sigurdsson's form going off a cliff with the goals drying up. It is infuriating to all blues to see him lying on the ground faking injury, whether he was fouled or not, when the game is going on around him. The blues need him right now, and the fans are losing their patience with him.

Mark Guglielmo
30 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:02:50
No, Tony @25, you're correct. We as fans have elevated the play in our minds because it happened to one of ours. That's easily understood.

I won't change my opinion of the perfect storm nature of the event as it unfolded. I watched it 2 more times because clearly I have a morbid curiosity about this. The play took less than 3 seconds total. The catalyst leading up to the play, was Gomes dispossessing someone (couldn't see who), and immediately turning to move the ball up field. This happened maybe 5-6 yds from the center line. So both Son, and Gomes, immediately changed direction by 180 degrees, Gomes was faster, Son flicked his foot out, 100% clearly to make the professional foul we've seen countless times before. There wasn't a “wind up” there wasn't any force behind it, his foot was angled to connect with his laces not his spikes, and so forth. Had any of those things happened, Gomes would have gone down instantly clutching his knee or ankle or whatever (the contact was roughly midway up his calf).

Instead Gomes, staggering yes, took 2 steps forward and I'm guessing saw Aurier coming in out of the corner of his eye to make the 2nd tackle, planted his leg to avoid it, his cleats stuck, and well, we know how it ended.

I'm not disputing the intent to FOUL. Nor that it should have been a red card. Even that it set off the chain reaction of the play (though did it? Several things happened right before Son's lunge in rapid fashion too, but that destroys the narrative of considered). I said this in the other thread that I'm sure was equally ignored, that it's not about sympathy or feeling sorry for Son; it is, to perhaps only me, empathy for another player who made a bad call in the span of say, 15 seconds, that ultimately led to the worst possible outcome.

I'm sure now everyone will hate me or think I'm a douche whatever. Sorry for being the voice of reason here.

Steve Ferns
31 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:06:51
Mark, ironically, Gomes should have dived, he'd have won a foul and he'd be okay right now. Is this why Richarlison does it?
Kieran Kinsella
32 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:12:53
Steve 31

Interesting point. By the time I started watching football in the mid-80s Maradona was a notorious diver. He pretty much invented the rolling on the ground routine. I hated him for that and the handball. But I saw a documentary on Eurosport about his life and in his early days in South America and Europe, people were routinely launching two-footed lunges at him and nothing was given as he tried to soldier on. He said he became a diver as a self protection measure.

Now with Richarlison, I feel like he acts like a spoilt brat, but there is some validity to your point.

Mike Gaynes
33 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:18:03
Jamie, it was not an attempt to injure. It just wasn't.

It was all the things you describe... except that.

Steve Ferns
34 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:18:39
Keiran, that would only excuse the act of diving. I can see no point to the extent of rolling around long after the ref has waves play on.
Steve Ferns
35 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:20:36
Mike @33 that's something we will have to agree to disagree on. I think it was. Though certainly not to the extent of the injury incurred. But I want to stop arguing about this now, as I am still raging about it and it's not good for the old blood pressure!
Kieran Kinsella
36 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:23:31

I don't know. I think we've seen how people take advantage of goodwill when teams typically kick the ball out of play if there is an "injury." Any time a home player goes down, the whole stadium and coach are screaming at the ref to stop play.

Mark Guglielmo
37 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:26:28
Steve, ironically, yes. Just not in his nature, to his detriment in this case.

You gotta stop with the why was Son there, or the laying in wait bits. Simply not true. If you dare, go watch a real-time replay on YouTube. Not a single thing about the play looked out of sorts until we realized the severity of the outcome.

Also, Spurs play a VERY fluid front 3. They can be anywhere on the pitch, at any time. The position of the ball dictates it.

Mike Gaynes
38 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:34:20
Same here, Steve, that's why I have only posted once today. I'm just heartsick.
John Pierce
39 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:41:48
You cannot know what was in Son's mind. Intent cannot be divined. You look at action and decide from there. The tackle was reckless and endangered the players safety. Red.

The Premier League have confirmed that's the sanction which was applied, albeit circuitously. I do not think you can appeal a red card on that basis.

Son will get a standard ban, no more, no less – however emotive the result of the challenge was. Let me be clear, it's the action that's gets you a red card not the outcome. Had Gomes walked away as healthy a lop, it is still a red.

To add some objectivity here, both Schniederlin (v Man City) and Holgate (v Brighton) should have received red cards for similarly reckless challenges.

If you add everything into the mix, we feel like a powder keg ready to explode. The silence from the club on all matters; Silva, VAR etc. is symptomatic of a club without a leader.

Jamie Crowley
40 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:43:45
Mike and Mark -

A rare public disagreement with my fellow countrymen.

It was, undoubtedly, an attempt to injure.

Son's intent, for me, was retribution for the knock to the face.

If you look at the still pictures, his foot is at a 90 degree angle, studs up, when putting in the challenge. A professional foul is always committed studs down. His studs were, again, perpendicular to the ground. There's actually a pic showing this on TW.

We can argue all day long whether it was a "flick" challenge or whether or not there was malice in the execution. Despite direct evidence through pics showing studs up, I will now state the damning evidence that clearly shows there was intent to injure.

The position of the ball.

If Son had grown a third leg, attached to his extended, studs up leg, to make that tackle, he still wouldn't have been able to make contact with the ball. There was zero - zero - attempt to play the ball. He was looking to wipe a man out. Anyone playing the game understands there's a time to take a man down a la the "professional foul".

That challenge should always be executed with your foot on the ground, studs down, with at least a chance to play the ball.

There was none of that.

How you define that, based on the above, as a tackle without intent to injure and without malice is beyond me.

Mark you say:

Not a single thing about the play looked out of sorts until we realized the severity of the outcome.

I couldn't disagree more with that statement. When the tackle was put in, I literally jumped off my seat and screamed at the television, "THAT'S A FUCKING RED CARD!" There is zero question, in my mind, that nothing looked out of sorts with that play or tackle.

To the contrary, everything single thing looked out of sorts with that run of play and the events that unfolded. It was malicious.

Jamie Crowley
41 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:44:43
JP -

You can indeed ascertain what was in Son's mind by the way he chased down Gomes, had no chance of playing the ball, and went studs up.

I disagree.

Jamie Crowley
42 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:49:00
Lastly -

Hockey reference, forgive.

Slashing happens in hockey. For those who don't know, slashing is when a player whacks an opposing player their stick, in an attempt to lodge possession of the puck from the player.

There's an art to it.

Everyone who's ever played the game of hockey knows, beyond explanation, a slash and receiving a slash, is perfectly acceptable if the player doing the slashing executes the slash with the flat part of his stick.

You never, ever lead with the tip of the stick.

Why? Because leading with the tip of the stick can result in serious injury.

It's the exact same thing in football with tackles, just a different sport and implement.

When you put in a hard challenge, or commit a professional foul, you always do it within reach of the ball and with your foot down.

Son slashed with the tip of his stick, in soccer terms. It was disgusting, done with malice, and I'm stunned beyond words that people are forgiving and excusing his actions.

David Pearl
43 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:58:18
Hmm. This reminds me, l haven't watched Quincy for years.
Jamie Crowley
44 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:00:06
David, if Quincy did the autopsy of the injury, he'd ban Son for life.
Steve Ferns
45 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:00:39
Mark, I don't want to see it again thanks. I was very careful with watching the highlights.

Gomes sounds like he's had a good operation and can start the long road to recovery. Hopefully he can be up and running by spring. I hope we ease him back in though. I'd rather a 100% Gomes for pre-season than a below par Gomes who can't overcome the injury issue by spring.

Mark Guglielmo
46 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:01:47
Jamie, we're allowed to disagree; it's why I left your AR-15 comment alone in the live forum yesterday ;-)

Regarding this and only this statement:

“If you look at the still pictures, his foot is at a 90 degree angle, studs up, when putting in the challenge. A professional foul is always committed studs down. His studs were, again, perpendicular to the ground. There's actually a pic showing this on TW.”

Don't look at the stills, watch the live video. The still is taken from a direct, head-on angle where Son's leg comes up, spikes first, AFTER the foul had already been committed (Think sliding into a base). The force which he hit Gomes leg with, well I wasn't on the receiving end so I don't know, but it 100% was not spikes first. If you saw a still from a side angle, you'd see what I mean but I can't find one.

I'm not saying his foot wasn't in the air, because it was. Just not angled for spikes to meet calf. I suppose it could be argued that any dangerous/cynical/whatever word you want to use tackle carries with it an intent to injure, but you'd need to be consistent in how you feel about the player making said tackle. As John said, we've been guilty of it too.

Oh wait missed the last part; I agreed that it was a red card! I've said so at least half-a-dozen times, as well as stating tackles like this are exactly why red cards exist.

Ok back to my miserable Monday.

Tony Abrahams
47 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:04:15
Steve @29, I think if I was going to do someone on a footy pitch, I would get closer to them first, and definitely come in on the blind side.

But maybe Son was distraught because of the reasons you describe, and the realisation that, once it's done, it's done, had just hit right home?

Steve Ferns
48 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:07:17
That's just it Tony. I think he was distraught because he knew what he tried to do. I don't think he thought it through properly and he thought he'd send him sprawling to the grass and can stand over him and jog off.

Did you see the Bournemouth red card? Same situation. Revenge tackle by Son after getting up off the floor. He's got a nasty streak in him.

Jamie Crowley
49 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:07:25
Mark -

I've seen the replay, watched live, and seen the stills.

My opinion won't change.

Come south and I'll take you to the range to shoot.


Jamie Crowley
50 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:07:58
That's just it, Tony. I think he was distraught because he knew what he tried to do.

That ^^

Mark Guglielmo
51 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:08:29
Ok Steve @45, I can't blame you. It's horrible. But you've passed judgment without evidence, to continue the ridiculous legal comparison so we may as well just go back to feudal times and do and say whatever we want.

Jamie, HUGE hockey fan, pretty solid analogy. That said, there's a difference between a 2:00 penalty, a 5:00 penalty, and a 10:00 game misconduct. Only in the rarest of instances does the punishment result in any form of game ban. It happens literally less than 5-6 times per season, all teams, all games.

So they do have staggered or escalated punishments based on severity of outcome (not intent, as is in football). A violent, malicious slash to the wrist is a 5:00 major, nothing else.

Mark Guglielmo
52 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:10:31
Steve @48, that “nasty streak” has cost him 4 yellows and 2 reds in 8,300 minutes of Premier League football. 10 total fouls in his past 40ish league matches. He's the best criminal on earth at not getting caught.

To the gallows!

Mark Guglielmo
53 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:11:23
Jamie, I kinda actually do want to go shooting, despite my aversion to firearms. Legit seems fun in a controlled environment like that. Cheers back atcha.
Tony Abrahams
54 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:11:36
Don't go, Mark, you've only just come on T/W, and we don't want to lose you just yet mate!
Jamie Crowley
55 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:12:10
Mark -

Players don't give a fuck about 2, 5, or 10.

Using the analogy, if you slash with the tip of your stick, gloves are dropping, and you're about to take a beating.

Because the guy on the receiving end of that slash knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you just tried to impale him.

Son tried to hurt Gomes. There's no question in my mind.

Jamie Crowley
56 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:13:06
I'm going to shut the fuck up now and read. I apologize to "taking over" a thread. I'm seriously upset about all of this.

Cheers to all.

Mark Guglielmo
57 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:17:25
Tony, you'll have to throw me out, might be a distinct possibility lol

Jamie, that would be awesome! Enforcers, dropping the... cleats? Let ‘em settle it mano-y-mano. May add a bit to injury time though :-P

John Pierce
58 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:21:23
Mark, one of those reds, a straight sending off at Bournemouth for something pretty similar (retaliation). On that you could argue has form for it

Jamie - you can ‘think' you know what's in Son's head but cannot definitively know. You can only take the action and go from there. I do understand the point though.

Jamie Crowley
59 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:28:46
JP -

I think to say you can't know what was in his mind is disingenuous.

We all have a brain. We all use it. To say you can't ascertain what happens inside a human brain and the thought process therein, especially when presented with video and pictures of the event, would be to deny that you have a brain capable of thought at all, that we all undergo and have.

Anyone who's ever played a sport at any level, knows what I'm talking about. Dark thoughts of breaking someone's bones, pounding them in the face, impaling them on a spike, etc. We've all had them. It happens in the heat of competition.

What separates us from animals, is we don't act on those thoughts.

I promise you Son had those thoughts. I don't think he did, I know he did.

And yes, he is an animal, who couldn't keep his emotions and dark side in check.

Now I really will STFU.

Mark Guglielmo
60 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:29:00
Oh no question, John. Just zooming out to look at the entire body of evidence. In that context, the 2 plays are outliers, not patterns.

Jamie, I pretty much have those thoughts in traffic every single day, lol.

Steve Ferns
61 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:42:30
Jamie, it's too soon to take the emotion out of it and take a step back.
Jamie Crowley
62 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:43:19
My emotion may wane with time.

But my verdict won't change.

Mark Guglielmo
63 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:46:01
Jamie I'd like you on my side in a bar fight. Just sayin'
Brian Wilkinson
64 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:47:57
I said a few weeks back about Tosun getting an extended run, how can you have anything but pride in a player who wants to fight for his place.

You have him coming on against Lincoln and heading the ball back to a fellow player to score, warming up in games he's the first to race over when a player scores and heads towards the Gwladys Street to celebrate with them.

The setting up Richarlison for his goal against Watford in the cup.

His awareness to get into the box and knowing if he can't score, his quick thinking will square it to a fellow player.

Then not only do you have the guy cradling Gomes, he then goes over to try and console Son, then goes out of his way to try and get that goal. Not just for us, but for Gomes as well.

We need to give this guy an extended run in the team and not just odd games here and there.

This is a player who gets what Everton are all about, always liked the guy, but after the last few weeks, I hope he gets a more regular run out, perfect gentleman and a passion for Everton Football Club.

John Davies
65 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:13:13
Jamie #56. You told porkies. You were going to "shut the fuck up" and not continue to "take over the thread". We all know you're pissed off but you should move on to another subject now. PLEASE.
John Cartwright
66 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:35:07
We loose arguably our best player to a premeditated tackle/foul and its like reading a sermon of forgiveness. We need to be less forgiving both on and off the field, roll the sleeves up and stop being Mr Nice Guy and get higher up the table.
Stephen Brown
67 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:20:40
Tosun was a superb ambassador for us. Helping out Gomes with leadership and scoring the equaliser with bravery!

I hope this can change his fortunes at the club as most of us on here are quick enough to slag off mercenaries but perhaps not quick enough to praise pros who get their head down and work hard!

One swallow doesn't make a summer but the next time I'm at a game (hopefully Norwich) I for one will be cheering that bit louder for Cenk and showing that little bit more patience with him!

Thank you Cenk for representing the club so well yesterday and get well soon Gomes!!

Steve Ferns
68 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:27:25
Fair play Brian. I'm not Tosun's biggest fan, but he was a warrior last night. I would have preferred he pick the ball out the net and try and get a second than jump in the crowd though.

Right now we need warriors. We are too nice and too lightweight. Let's give him a go and see what he can do. He tends to be streaky, so maybe he can get a few. That could get us to safety of mid table and then we can try to salvage the season.

Rob Dolby
69 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:24:35
A horrible game on so many levels.

The refereeing was as bad as anything I have seen and to compound things 5 other goons are watching from 200 miles away making a right bollocks of the whole game.

The TV are loving it, it's only a matter of time before adverts are played inbetween decisions whilst the mugs who go to the game get kept in the dark.

The PC empathy towards Son is confusing me. He set out to deliberately foul Gomes. The lad breaks his ankle and he acts shocked, his deliberate actions caused it. A modern shithouse tackle without repercussions most of the time.

Jay Harris
70 Posted 04/11/2019 at 21:46:30
Studs up, definite intent. Red card all day long.

Richarlison is our best player and because he makes a nice gesture (and is probably a nice sort) we want to replace Richarlison with him.

The mind boggles.

End of rant.

Brian Wilkinson
71 Posted 05/11/2019 at 03:06:04
Steve@68, what about picking Calvert-Lewin out of the net as well, Tosun made damn sure Calvert-Lewin was not going to put another chance over the bar.

To be honest, he is close to Gomes so scoring that goal meant so much to him, bit hard expecting him to just pick the ball out of the net and trot back to the centre circle.

He has never had a run of games under Silva, no use playing the guy one game then benching him, give the guy regular game time and let's see what he can do.

Calvert-Lewin has played nearly every game over the past few seasons, give Tosun half that and I would be happy, just as long as we give the guy an extended run.

Jay Harris
73 Posted 05/11/2019 at 03:54:27
Brian, you've got a short memory.

Tosun had a run of games and it was as if he had lead in his boots.

Eddie Dunn
74 Posted 05/11/2019 at 11:27:20
In my opinion, Son went out to get him and he did. I have gone out to exact revenge on fellow players after being "done " myself. Usually after a couple of minutes you calm down – the offender usually spots you up forrevenge and gets rid of the ball.

When the red mist is up you do stupid things, you don't think of the consequences, you just lash out. But, if you do exact revenge, it doesn't matter if you only meant to trip someone or bash them - you are responsible for whatever happens.

You have a duty of care, just like out on the street or in your home if someone tries to rob you. If I smash a burglar with a sledgehammer I can expect to go down, but if I punch him on the nose, I expect a pat on the back.

Son, in my opinion, deserves at least a 3 match ban and the fact that his boss is appealing the ban, for me is disgraceful, just like Sanchez trying to trip Richarlison after the said incident.

Matthew Williams
75 Posted 05/11/2019 at 13:17:37
It's kind of nice to read that a few Blues are finally warming to Cenk Tosun. I always rated him and he would be a regular starter for me, playing with at least one other strike partner.
Stan Schofield
76 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:39:31
Matthew, many Blues already had a fair opinion of Tosun, with many past posts suggesting he be given an extended run. The difference now is, he's bagged a few goals when he's come on off the bench, which has increased the numbers with a good opinion of him, and that will only have been consolidated by his actions on Sunday after Gomes was injured.
Brian Wilkinson
77 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:26:15
Jay@73, we all know Tosun is no Usain Bolt, but the way we build up slow then deliver crosses will benifit Tosun, Steve Naismith was another with not much pace, but once he got a chance inside the box he normally put it away or it was blocked.

Tosun seems to have that same instinct in front of goal.

If we were bombing from defence to attack then yes Tosun would struggle, but the way we build up slower will give Tosun time to get into position, not ideal I know, but for the time being it is a perfect combination to suit our needs.

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