High praise for Silva from Digne

Wednesday, 23 October, 2019 223comments  |  Jump to last

Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images

Lucas Digne has hailed Marco Silva as one of the best coaches he has worked with and says that the Portuguese's build-up to Saturday's win over West Ham was “perfect”.

Everton and their manager went into the clash with the Hammers sitting in the bottom three of the Premier League and under enormous pressure to produce a positive performance and secure three points.

The Blues put in what was arguably their most complete display of the season to win 2-0, a scoreline that failed to reflect their superiority and the chances they created.

“The mood [in the build-up] was perfect,” Digne told the Liverpool Echo's Phil Kirkbride.

“You [could] feel that we had lost four games consecutively but everybody came with a good mentality and we saw on the pitch against West Ham that the mentality was totally different and we played very fast, with intensity, we won every challenge and we didn't concede chances or nothing.

“He (Silva) gave a lot of confidence to the players and very good advice,” continued Digne who wore the captain's armband in the absence of the suspended Seamus Coleman.

“For me he is one of the best coaches I've had and I am sure he can be one of the best in the world.

“We watch videos together with the staff and if I ask to work on my crosses or defensively, he helps me a lot, he gives me advice.

“He reads the game really well. Some coaches can give advice during the game that you feel is not the solution but, Marco, when he gives you advice you think: 'Ah, yeah, this is true'.

“When we prepare for a game, he chooses the tactics and then he gives you the advice. When you play in the game you can see it's the solution. He is a really good coach.”

Read the full interview in the Liverpool Echo


Reader Comments (223)

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Paul Jeronovich
2 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:17:59
Four consecutive losses would point to poor team selection/tactics. The football has also been wretched from the first game of the season and you get the feeling when we lose one game it could lead to another losing streak. Hope I'm wrong.
David Thomas
3 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:30:32
If he's that good a coach then why are we losing so many games under his leadership?

This strikes me as a player just coming out to defend his boss for the sake of it.

Annika Herbert
4 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:35:05
I hope the West Ham win was the catalyst for an upturn in our performances from this point on. It is to be hoped that the manager can now see poorly performing players and players totally out of form, must be dropped.

His selections for the game at Brighton will tell us more about his thinking. I sincerely hope he does not revert to type with the players that are returning from injury etc. The 11 who started Saturday deserve another game at least and, if they continue in the same vein, then they all deserve a long run in the team.

James Hughes
5 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:45:37
Annika agree with your post and really hope we kick on from that win. The cynic in me thinks we won't, we've turned so many corners we could have our own maze.
John Keating
6 Posted 23/10/2019 at 08:15:55
This weeks player roll out

Unfortunately like what most of them say it's not what we actually see on the pitch.

I fully agree with Annika. The Brighton game will tell us more about Silva in one day than we know in a year. Can he really be that stupid that he would change a team that has shown more in one game than the previous half dozen combined.

Brighton will be as open as West Ham, no sitting deep for them, especially at home. Same team please

Dave Williams
7 Posted 23/10/2019 at 08:55:25
Absolutely right Annika. Let's see his selection and how they play on Saturday before getting too carried away. Hopefully he has seen the light??
Dave Abrahams
8 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:31:35
If he is given credit for Saturday's, admittingly good performance, he's got to take responsibility for the previous very poor performances in most games this season. I think we can expect this good attacking play to carry on, starting at Brighton, all eyes on you Marco, your selection and tactics on Saturday.
Steve Croston
9 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:32:38
I think this may have been written by our PR department... Sounds a little fishy pour moi! Either way, I love Digne and think he's our best player, definitely the most consistent. Let's see what Saturday brings against Brighton.
Derek Knox
10 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:36:22
David @ 3, a point I totally agree with, how many times have we heard similar statements made by players in defence of Manager who has engineered more losses than wins?

As Annika has suggested along with others the 'proof of the pudding' will be if he sticks with the same team and tactics for the week-end, against a Brighton side who are not exactly setting the Premiership alight.

It's not that the defeats under Silva in general have all been against top opposition, or we have been extremely unlucky in getting decisions against us, it's been against teams we should be not only outplaying, but beating.

He has certainly not had any sort of pardon or reprieve in my book, but will have to prove between now and the end of the season that he is, what is players are saying - a good coach, but I have my doubts.

Alan J Thompson
11 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:41:02
Digne hasn't had a go at this before, has he? Perhaps we should run a lottery on who's next unless the Manager puts his head over the parapet if we win on Saturday. Or Mr Moshiri if we get hammered.
Brent Stephens
12 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:49:51
Alan, next in line will be Sidibe: "thrilled to break into the starting eleven, hope to emulate the levels achieved by Seamus, results so far don't reflect the team's potential (in this moment), looking forward to a demanding game at Brighton and salvaging a point".
Eddie Dunn
13 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:50:07
Such meaningless platitudes. When the coach was telling Sigurdsson what he wanted as they stood on the touchline, Gylfi stared away from his boss as if he didn't need to hear his instructions.

As for Digne, unlike some of the posters above, I think he has been in poor form, defensively weak, caught napping upfield and his crossing has been rank.

As others have also said, the selection for Brighton will tell us what Silva is thinking. I think he should keep the same team, but will he?

Derek Taylor
14 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:11:02
A piece clearly written by the PR department in a French accent ! Fools nobody.
David Donnellan
15 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:13:24
Eddie #13,

I noticed that too, Sigurdsson just didn't seem interested or even listening to what he was being told by Silva, maybe still sulking a little bit after being dropped.

However he was fired up when he came onto the pitch & scored a peach of a goal. (Made Wilshere look like he was on a waterslide.)

Just a shame it took being dropped to bring that out of him, after so many inconsistent performances.

David Pearl
16 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:27:18
Silva was asking Siggy if he wanted to watch Frozen with him and Digne.
Anyway, l thought the vote of confidence is supposed to come from the chairman. And before the West Ham game. Lets hope we continue the form away from home. If confidence and performances stay high Silva will have a hard time keeping everyone happy.
John Davies
17 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:47:15
I'm not a fan of Silva and have said so on many occasions on this website. I do not think the club should have appointed him in the first place and I still want him replaced. One swallow does not make a summer!

However, as others have said, let's see what comes this weekend against Brighton. Surely, the same starting 11, the same tempo, the same philosophy, the same everything. Away to Brighton should be treated as a home game in terms of taking the game to them. Silva may have stumbled over a winning team selection last weekend. Let's see if he has the nous to go with it again and let those lads produce the same outcome. COYB!

Bill Gienapp
18 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:57:12
In spite of some understandably cynical comments above, Digne's words are reflective of Silva's supposed MO - a true student of the game, an astute tactician and a hands-on coach who devours hours upon hours of gametape. Which makes it all the more frustrating that these qualities so often fail to materialize on the pitch. I don't understand why Silva often seems so intractable in his thinking, when the signs indicate he should very much be the opposite.

Anyway, as others have said, I think the Brighton match will go a long way towards defining our season - starting with the team selection.

Trevor Peers
19 Posted 23/10/2019 at 11:26:59
Silva seems like an amiable type of guy, he must be well liked by the players and I do think he has ability as a coach. He seems an easy touch though for players who need a kick up the backside to motivate them.This is where as manager he falls down, he lacks inspiration in and around the technical area, the players just don't fear him at all.

Like others have said he does have an irritating habit of barking tactical plans and orders to substitutes as they prepare to take the field. I noticed he did exactly the same at Hull and Watford. Surely the players have had hours of preparation during endless sessions in the week and should know exactly what is required, maybe just a few words of encouragement would be sufficient to get the best results, as most players seem oblivious to his information overload.

Eddie Dunn
20 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:01:15
Trevor- exactly! Surely the message, the system etc has been planned all week. Siggy is no kid plucked from the reserves and should have only needed a quick word.

A short spell on the bench certainly seemed to fire the iceman up. Competition for places is the key and a meritocracy would surely result in Sidibe and Davies keeping their places, and Iwobi should start ahead of Gylfi. Perhaps Sigurdsson is feeling the pace of so many games for club and country, and a few cameos might give him a bit of a chance to recharge his batteries.

I really hope Marco has stumbled upon his best team, but we shall see whether he realises it or simply takes it as a job done for one opponent and a different selection needed for Brighton?

Barry Rathbone
21 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:02:31
Players don't publicly call out managers until they've retired... unless you're Roy Keane, of course.
Raymond Fox
22 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:16:07
Too much negativity as per usual.
Phil Parker
23 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:28:27
I remember the last days of Gordon Lee, we lost at home 2-0 to Norwich with big Joe scoring for Norwich in the Gwladys St end, massive cheers for our Joe.

After the game it was announced by Mr Carter that the managers position was under review. Translation : he was getting sacked. The following match was against Boro, and the players decided to have a go, and won 4-1. Too late for Mr Lee to keep his job.

We have to keep the massive improvement in attitude, effort, team selection and commitment going now. All season. One swallow does not a summer make. Let's go all out for the 3 handled pot.

David Pearl
24 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:57:13
Raymond, it's hard not to be cynical. The form toward the end of last season pointed towards us being right up at the top. I thought we were great on the weekend and though l enjoyed it, after it sinking in it really pissed me off that we started so badly. No excuses for Silva and us taking so long to get going. I think we can go on a run now. I expect it but l also hope Moshiri demands it.

It was expected to be a funny season and it's turning out exactly that. So just like going into the Villa game with some excitement and ambition we find ourselves here again... Brighton on the horizon and a chance for us as a club to show what we are. Will we take it? If we don't l want Silva gone. If we do then yes let's see where it takes us.

Franny Porter
26 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:01:22
That win was massive for all concerned and seems to have give Marco a stay of execution. However, and its a big however, if we get ANYTHING less than three points at Brighton its time up.

Barring injury, it HAS to be the same team. If I see Schneiderlein in the starting line up, Ill give in.

I have a horrible feeling we will see MS and GS both back in the team at the expense of TD and AI.

George Cumiskey
27 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:06:45
Everyone seems to agree with Annika me too by the way, but I bet Marco is chomping at the bit to play Siggy and Sneids on Saturday.
All will be revealed with the team selection for the Brighton game.
Andrew Clare
28 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:51:53
We need a run of consistency and we need to become hard to beat. Then we can say that Silva is a very good coach. If we are going to get anything out of this season we need to put a good run together starting on Saturday against Brighton. They will be all hustle and bustle from the word go. Our players have got to show why they are in our team on the pitch and the manager has got to make sure that they are prepared.

It's okay being an ex Barcelona player or a World Cup winner but you have to play to a high level week in week out. Not just now and again.

There probably isn't one Brighton player that we would consider buying yet I bet they will still be very hard to beat and you could say the same about most of the teams that have beaten us so far. So Silva should be doing a better job with the players he has.

Derek Taylor
29 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:52:16
Phil at 23, my recollection of Lee's sacking is that it had for some time been rumoured that Bobby Robson was on his way to Goodison. The Board were said to be concerned at the quality of football being served up and, whilst gates had tumbled to as low as 15K, no less than five of the last half-dozen games were won including seeing off relegation with wins against Forest, Arsenal and Leeds.

Only when Robson finally said NO to the job was Kendall approached to take over in the early days of the 1981 close season. As they say, the rest is history.

Jamie Crowley
30 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:33:55
Diane is going to back Silva until the end. Silva is responsible for Digne getting a chance in the Premier League, and therefore helping his career.

So much of a player's success is dependent upon playing for a manager that believes in him. Marco believes in Lucas, so I'd expect nothing less than comments like this.

If Digne spoke out against Marco, he'd be one ungrateful bastard, and that doesn't seem to fit with his personality in the least.

Waiting to see the lineup on Saturday!

Jamie Crowley
31 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:34:56
Auto-correct. Digne, not Diane. Jesus help me.
Drew O'Neall
32 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:39:12
Derek @ 14

A piece clearly written by the PR department in a French accent ! Fools nobody.

Made me think of a Communications Exec at the Liver building talking like the policeman from Allo Allo.. ‘I was pissing by the wy-ndow'

Phil Parker
33 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:46:12
Think you have the wrong season Derek. Just checked our last 20 league games 80/81 season, from Boxing Day, Lost 13 Drew 4 Won 3 ( including the Boro victory.)
Bill Gall
34 Posted 23/10/2019 at 15:00:39
Even teams who get relegated play the odd good games with improved performances. To win a place in the top 6 takes consistency not the 1 good performance from 5 games with 4 poor performances. Stop trying to hoodwink the supporters with praise for the manager, as we can see by his tactics, team selection and substitutions how good or poor he is.

As supporters we prefer to see results on the pitch, home and away, not a write up in a paper from a player after 1 decent performance, action speaks louder than words.

Jim Harrison
35 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:17:31
Dont even read the comments. Standard football player/manager stuff. It happens at clubs up and down the country, filling news articles to keep us interested during the week. All he is probably thinking about is which car he will drive to training today or whether he needs to wax his back this week.

Nothing to see here

Mark Guglielmo
36 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:34:14
Thank you Raymond @22, my sentiments exactly.

Some of you need to take a day off. Or maybe take up a silent protest outside Silva's office? Fellas, it's not even been 5 days since our outstanding performance.

It's very difficult to compare the first 8 games with the inspired side we saw vs West Ham. Though interestingly the formation was largely the same.

If anything we're all in agreement on, it was his stubbornness in not making the clearly necessary changes much earlier. But even then, all the advanced football metrics (xG, xA, big chances created, key passes) said we should have won vs Sheffield & Villa, and at worst drawn level with Bournemouth. That's 7 points with the boring lineup! Which would have put us - checks table - between 3rd-5th depending on goal differential. Yes, we've been unlucky, and yes, a better, more cohesive squad on the pitch would surely have produced those better results. That's on Silva.

But context is needed, as always. Try being positive, as hard as that may be, and at least let things unfold on Saturday!


Mark Guglielmo
37 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:36:42
Oh one last thing. Let's say things had gone the way they really should have, and we were in 4th. Would you be making plans for CL the same way everyone was whinging over being relegated when we were in 18th? Less than 1/4 of the through the season?
Dave Abrahams
38 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:52:44
Mark (37), yes we should be more positive, but going on the performances up to now, even if we were you suggest we should be, we'd be kidding ourselves if we were looking forward to playing in the CL, I'd say most of us Everton fans are more realistic than that.
Christy Ring
39 Posted 23/10/2019 at 17:16:19
Didn't he sign Digne, so he's bound to praise him, but he says, Silva's build up to the match was perfect, was it different from the previous five league matches?
Agree with Annika like other posts, the team played great football, especially as it was an enforced selection, especially with Davies starting, because Schneiderlin was injured, so he can't possibly change the lineup for the Brighton game, hopefully Mina can play.
Darren Hind
40 Posted 23/10/2019 at 18:24:41
"Everyone" was whinging about relegation ?

We'll I heard a few panic merchants mention the possibility. . but I didn't know the rest of you were "whinging about it"

No wonder Mark feels the need to put you all straight

Derek Taylor
41 Posted 23/10/2019 at 18:26:42
Phil at 33. Of course you are right. That end of season run of victories occurred in Howard's first season not Gordon's last ! Sorry.
Brian Wilkinson
42 Posted 23/10/2019 at 19:05:15
Pretty sure most of us have been chomping at the bit for a while now to have The players that started to be given a regular run out.

We all have a pop at Walcott, but with Siggy and Schnids dropped, we played a quicker tempo that suited Walcott.

Now whether this was a tactic Silva played, or was forced upon him, I only hope we go with the same players away to Brighton.

To be honest, I have a feeling he will go safety first and recall Schnids and probs Siggy, with Lewin being drafted back as the loan striker, if so then all the good work will be undone.

As the saying goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

Let's wait until Saturday to see what team is sent out, if unchanged then we are learning, if the usual suspects are brought back in, then that's it with Silva for me.

We shall know more Saturday, here's hoping for more of the same as last week.

Anthony A Hughes
43 Posted 23/10/2019 at 19:09:47
And if my Auntie was my uncle...we were in the bottom three because we've been crap. Let's hope the West Ham result pushes us on.
John McFarlane Snr
45 Posted 23/10/2019 at 19:59:03
Hi Derek [29],

The season that you're referring to, when Everton won 5 of their final 6 games, was 1981-82. The low attendances were recorded in that season, during which Howard Kendall made 4 league appearances and 1 League Cup, and 1 FA Cup appearance, as player/manager. Everton actually finished in 8th place on 54 points.

Mark Guglielmo
46 Posted 23/10/2019 at 20:37:07
Darren @40 sorry should have clarified that my comment was based on the variety of places I visit for EFC. So many angry types talking relegation, just plain silly.
Rob Marsh
47 Posted 23/10/2019 at 20:44:03
Mark Guglielmo # 36

One reasonable game puts you in a frenzy of positivity, where incidently had their forward standing unmarked on the 6 yard line took his chance, the outcome of that game might have been completely different with the way we disintergrate under pressure.

Have you completely forgotten the form leading upto the WHU game. Let's wait and see where we are in 5 more games.

Mark Guglielmo
48 Posted 23/10/2019 at 20:58:34
Rob, that's because I choose positive thinking over negative thinking whenever possible. Got enough real world problems, don't need to add to them.

With regards to EFC, I'm optimistic that now we seem to have put the right guys on the pitch, that the first 8 will be a different "phase" of this season. Hard to compare them when this is a different team, essentially. So yes sir, it's all puppies and rainbows and chocolate chip cookies over here. Of course if Marco reverts to the same boring side and style that didn't work pre-West Ham, then yup, my outlook will change, and right quick.

Hope that provides a little more context to where I was coming from.

John Keating
49 Posted 23/10/2019 at 21:00:41
Mark 36
……. all the advanced football metrics we should have won. Really ? Well we didn't

" Yes, we've been unlucky" Sorry Mark we have not been unlucky. We have been shite !!!!

Mark hopefully Silva will have learned a lesson last weekend and we will continue on an upward trend but let's not try and rewrite history.

Eric Paul
50 Posted 23/10/2019 at 21:08:48
John@ 45
And one of those appearances was against Forest when cough tried to sign him after the game
Jason Lloyd
51 Posted 23/10/2019 at 21:59:42
Potential to be one of the best managers in the world?

Absolute guff. A manager that has the record for most goals conceded from set pieces or has never won from a losing position is not a world class manager.

He will bring one of the two cloggers back in the middle against Brighton.

He does not learn.

Therefore we will limp along with terrible away form and just enough at home to keep us in the league.

Steve Ferns
52 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:03:20
So much bollocks written above. Including factually inaccurate statements from Derek Knox. Derek, Silva has won 23 of his 54 games in charge, losing 21. Win rate of 42.59%.

Sam Allardyce had a 38.46% win rate.
Koeman was 41.37%
Martinez was 43.35%
Moyes was 42.44%
Walter Smith was 28.27%
Howard Kendall III was 23.68%
Joe Royle was 40.00%
Mike Walker was 19.35%
Howard Kendall II was 35.86%
Colin Harvey was 45.10%
Howard Kendall I was 61.18%
Howard Kendall total was 48.67%
Gordon Lee was 36.46%
Billy Bingham was 35.00%
Harry Catterick was 40.95%

If you don't see the facts, Kendall, Harvey, Martinez and Silva are the top 4 Everton managers by win percentage. Yet Martinez and Silva get nominated by most on here as the worst managers we have ever had.

Some of you need to get real.

Mark Guglielmo
53 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:15:07
John @49 wait, we lost those games?!

It would have been easier for to simply write that you don't understand how those metrics are defined. There truly is something call luck, and football is the sport where it makes the greatest impact. Think about it; hitting posts, poor calls, players blowing sitters (when a historical view of the situation would demonstrate that it was more likely to score than not score), and the like. Yes of course they have to play the games and some of the fault is on players making poor individual performances, but to simply dismiss them is equally ridiculous.

If you have Amazon Prime, I strongly recommend you watch the 6-part football series. The one about Frankfurt, and about the Chelsea/Bayern CL finals from 2012 (I think) goes really deep into how luck plays a huge role in the world of football. It's great and quite eye-opening.

Mark Guglielmo
54 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:16:23
Steve @52 get outta here with those facts. The "eye test" says he's the worst manager ever.

(I'm taking the piss, btw)

Paul Tran
55 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:21:31
Steve, I'm not sure that 'most' are saying Martinez and Silva are the worst we've had. Mine would be Mike Walker by a mile. The only manager that got me thinking he'd get us relegated.

I'm not convinced by this win percentage stat proving anything. Where's the context, where's the relative merits of each individual's teams & opponents?

When I was a kid, I thought win percentage played for Wales. I was, and still am, only interested in Everton managers that deliver trophies. That's the measure. That's what gives us the unbridled joy were desperate for, not whether one average manager had a 0.2% better win percentage stat than another.

They win us trophies, or they fail. Otherwise, what's the point?

Steve Ferns
56 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:26:16
I've just had enough of this site Mark. We won a game, we can't even look forward to the next one on here, as post after post of utter bollocks is written.

How does anyone know Lucas Digne did not mean every word? Marcel Brands faced criticism last week from a disgruntled ex-employee with an axe to grind. People come out the woodwork to stick the boot in when your down. Silva has been a manager 7 and a bit seasons now. So where's the disgruntled ex-employee? Where's any of the 231 total players he's used in professional football coming out to stick the boot in? One maybe? No, not one. Every single ex-player who goes on record talks like Digne above.

Paul Birmingham
57 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:28:43
Let's take nothing for granted and hopefully v Brighton, the players have the same energy, desire and team work as shown against West Ham.

Hopefully bar injuries, the same starting 11, will be available but it's now alledged Mina is a doubt.

No excuses, the same level and consistency is needed and the aim this season to break a potential 25 year drought of silverware.

The players must surely be tuned and ready but let's see what happens.

Steve Ferns
58 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:29:11
Paul the win percentage proves nothing, other than how can our worst ever manager have a 43% win ratio?

I could understand lots saying they aren't convinced and being sceptical but the above reads like he already lost the next one.

Steve Ferns
59 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:33:00
As for no decent coach losing four consecutive games, the greatest manager ever (Trademark: the Redshite) lost 5 league games in a row (27-9-14 to 1-11-14), which extends to 6 in 7 with the streak only ended by a draw. And this was with a side who had been in the Champions League Final only two seasons before.
Paul Tran
60 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:36:40
Steve, I almost had enough of this site after the game when Palace beat us in Martinez's first season. All the Moyes brigade excited because meat-head Pulis' team beat us with a last-minute header from a corner.

The thing is, you know who's going to say what and when they're going to say it. And it's true that many on here seem as though they're desperate to fault in everything.

The thing to bear in mind, Steve, is that there were plenty like that in the mid-80s as well. And that was before social media!

Steve Ferns
61 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:42:44
Paul, looking at the games Kendall lost before he got us going makes me think he'd have been hung, drawn and quartered on here if ToffeeWeb existed back then.

I used to read ToffeeWeb during his third spell but I don't recall there being a comments section. We used to get the last guy to get in the car to print off the team news as we picked everyone up on the way to the game and read it in the car!

I'm just glad that I get to sit and chat to lot of different people before the game in the People's Club and most have been supportive and understanding of the manager, which is why we still had a god atmosphere for the West Ham game. The match going punters are far more positive than people on here.

John Boon
62 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:46:33
Always interesting how easy it is for Posters to regularly stray from what the original article was about namely how Digne is very positive about the coaching provided by Silva. Considering that Digne is one of our most respected players it is more than likely that his opinion will at least be listened to by rational fans.

However it will always be debatable that anyone who posts on TW is likely to be rational concerning Everton. I include myself when I state that everybody who joins Toffee Web and offers their opinion has to be an Everton fanatic.

Websters dictionary defines a fanatic as A Person whose extreme zeal, rabid enthusiasm and support goes beyond what is reasonable. When it comes to Everton that defines me to a T. and I have been like that for eighty years.

Fanatics often stray from reality and that is the reason why the original topic is often forgotten and totally ignored so that Toffee Webbers, like me, can vent and tell all the other fanatics why Everton are the best and worst and luckiest and unluckiest team in the world. A very average coach is by far the worst ever until we beat West Ham 2-0. Then he may be okay or he may still be the worst. At best or at worst Silva is basically average until he wins five or six in a row then once more we have an outstanding coach.

How do I know that I am an irrational fanatical Evertonian. Because my wife, my kids, my grandchildren and anyone else who has seen me when we lose or win can tell you. I even tell them that Everton have been in the top level for 119 years. Far more that any other team. They really do not care. They also don't care that Digne likes Silva. Right now calmness reigns because we beat West Ham 2-0. What a wonderful team I support.

Mark Guglielmo
63 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:47:19
Steve @56, please stay! I'm hoping optimism is contagious!

Though honestly, it does seem like some actually even want them to fail! Just so the "I told you so's" can call for his head again.

To the cast of Grumpy Old Men, let's say this past wknd becomes the outlier and we go on to be average at best, or potentially worse, and Silva DOES get the sack. I have 2 questions in that case:

1) Who would you hire as an 'interim' manager?
2) Do you feel us hiring our 5th manager in 6 years will help, or hurt our prospects beyond May 2020?

David Thomas
64 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:48:01

I think most people in the ground got behind the team and created a good atmosphere because they knew the team needed their support in a must win game.

In my opinion it wasn't meant particularly as a show of support to the manager but simply the fans knowing the club needed them on Saturday.

Frank Wade
65 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:48:18
Thanks for the excellent work on the percentages Steve. Very interesting. Things haven't gone our way this season but sacking the manager has seldom proved to be the solution in the past. I think we should leave Silva in place at least to end of season. I agree the sentiment on here is hard to take. Look how long it takes teams with serious financial clout to improve. Sheffield Utd proved again on Monday night, that they have a very strong defence. I and lot of others underestimated them.

Meanwhile in Genk our neighbours live up to their Gobshites moniker Link Displaying a 'We are not racists' banner beneath another with racial connotations is a classic.

John Reynolds
66 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:48:54
This popped up tonight on another site I follow. It seems apposite for the “Sack Silva” brigade.

“Expect anything worthwhile to take a long time.”

It's hard to better capture something so fundamental yet so impatiently overlooked in our culture of immediacy. The myth of the overnight success is just that — a myth — as well as a reminder that our present definition of success needs retuning. The flower doesn't go from bud to blossom in one spritely burst and yet, as a culture, we're disinterested in the tedium of the blossoming. But that's where all the real magic unfolds in the making of one's character and destiny.

Paul Tran
67 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:49:56
Steve, in our 1984 Cup run, every round was 'Kendall's last game' till we got to the last eight. I remember going to the Friday night game against Chelsea, we'd lost the two openers, And a fair few were saying 'if he loses this one. ' We'd just won the cup! And don't mention the outcry when they announced that for the Bayern game, it was going to be £3 in the Street End instead of £2.80.

Nothing new. And we had reasons to be cheerful in those days!

Trevor Peers
68 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:51:44
Steve @52,

If you look at Silva's Premier League win-rate for the Blues, it's an unimpressive 38.28%, winning 18 from 47. The vast majority at home.

I think that is a fairer reflection of his career so far at Everton.

Rob Halligan
69 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:52:03
Steve, you're right about post after post being bollocks. Jeez, there's even been posts on this thread saying that Sigurdsson didn't look interested or even listening to what Silva was saying to him just before he came on last Saturday. I mean, how the hell can you tell if somebody is listening to something or not, just because they don't look the person talking to you in the eye? Maybe Sigurdsson should have been staring lovingly into Silva's eyes then give him a big sloppy kiss just before he went on!

I've never seen a sub looking into any managers eyes when he's been giving instructions, but because it's Sigurdsson he gets lambasted for it.

Mark Guglielmo
70 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:52:31
David @64

And who do you think the players were playing with intensity for? The folks in the Gwladys Street End, or their manager (yes, their)?

Steve Ferns
71 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:01:42
Rob, I forgot those. Silva is not telling the players what he told them before the game. He is trying to tell Sigurdsson where there is gaps and to share his insight into how Gylfi can jump straight in the game and have an impact. How do you know Gylfi wasn't listening? He may have done exactly what Silva asked in order to score that goal?

And you're right Rob, the sub shouldbe watching the pitch whilst he listens to the manager, except to look at the picture / iPad that the manager points to as to where he wants him to occupy.

Mark, David Unsworth of course. And if we sack Silva, the new manager would have Silva's side and no major transfers for some time. Brands would hire another Silva so the manager fit the players for this exact reason. So, not someone like Mourinho, Allegri or any of the other glamorous names, because they don't fit the players we have. Especially Max "3 centre back" Allegri who was sacked after winning his fifth consecutive league title because his football was so defensive and boring. That system ain't suiting our players, and Moise Kean might just hand in an immediate transfer request!

Steve Ferns
72 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:04:16
Trevor, Marco Silva has won 19 Premier League games, from 48 games, not 18. That's a 39.6%. Your stats were obviously taken before Saturday.
Rob Marsh
73 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:15:02
Mark Guglielmo #48,

"I'm optimistic that now we seem to have put the right guys on the pitch."

After just one game?

Mark Guglielmo
74 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:15:31
Steve *slow clap*

I'm waiting for Moyes' name to be brought up.

Lastly, why do only League games count? You still have to win Cup games, or don't you? The very same people will praise Gylfi for scoring 14 "all apps" goals last year. The thing about stats is that they can be manipulated to suit a view or argument.

Did you know that 72% of all statistics are made up on the spot? *smirky grin*

Steve Ferns
75 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:17:47
Trevor, just checked the league tables as well, seeing as you want to unfairly bash Marco Silva for his away record to check I was right. And I was. Everton have only won more than the 5 games Marco Silva won away last season once in 10 years. That was the Martinez 72 point season.

The fact is most teams are vastly superior at home. None more so than Everton. Who have always been a home team. I recall a season under Harvey or Kendall were we lost 1 or 2 at home, but only won 1 or 2 away. That's just Everton, it's who we are. The years we win away, we are right up the table.

Mark Guglielmo
76 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:18:14
Rob @73, yes, after one game. If he reverts to the same tired old starters, then we'll be in agreement. But since he hasn't yet, I remain optimistic. Unless you've already seen the future, in which case, please tell me all the winners for this weekend so I can make a killing at the bookie.

Winston Churchill once said, "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

Isn't hope and optimism what being a supporter is all about?

Steve Ferns
77 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:22:44
Yes, Mark. If you don't have hope or optimism why bother going the game. I used to go as a kid in the 90s, knowing we would be stuffed because we fought relegation every year. We'd still walk our "lucky" route, go to our "lucky" shop,, buy the "lucky" drink, enter the ground in the "lucky" order, put on the "lucky" bet (0-0 draw!), and hope that it was enough for us to win.

When we lost it was because we missed something out or the new home shirt was "unlucky" and we had to leave it at home next time and wear last season's shirt because the bad luck outdid the good luck. We did some daft things but we always thought we would win.

Steve Ferns
78 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:26:11
Frank Wade, on the Redshite banner, see the Premier League week 9 thread for a link to the racist one on twitter. It has to be seen to be believed. Who but an absolute moron would bring that banner to a game? It's pornographic as well as racist.
Mark Guglielmo
79 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:31:11
Steve hahaha, I switch kits all the time, sometimes in the middle of a game :-)
Max Murphy
80 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:38:55
Lucas, what are you on, mate?

Try singing his praises at 5:00 pm Saturday, after we go down against the mighty Brighton, currently 1 point behind us in 16th position.
And please don't tell us we're being too negative. What choices do we have after the shite that's been served up this season?

Jay Wood

81 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:42:44
Hmmmm. I'm not one given to cynicism about Everton. I'm more inclined to defend my club.

And I have to say, I don't think there is excessive cynicism or negativity in what many posters are saying (some even being 'named and shamed') in this thread.

As often happens, the lead story kinda gets hijacked. For me it's neither here nor there what Digne thinks about Silva. Given past history, it's no surprise that some roll their eyes at such utterings. The unusual aspect here is the comments follow a win when we are all accustomed to having a player put up to offer a soundbite following a defeat.

Many a poster expresses quite reasonably justifiable caution that our undeniably poor start to the season cannot be quickly erased from the memory with some barely credible revisionism offered by a couple of posters.

Digne may well be sincere in his gushing praise of the manager. The manager himself may indeed be worthy of such praise.

But the brutal facts don't lie. As 'world class' a coach Silva may be on the training ground, there is some considerable slippage 'twixt what happens at Finch Farm and on match day, be it home or away.

For whatever reason - and the players are not exempt from ciriticism in this - the team has and does fail to perform too frequently.

19 defeats from the 23 times we have conceded the opening goal in the PL and never once getting up to win is an extremely damning FACT!

A PL high of 22 goals conceded from dead ball situations under Silva is another damning FACT!

That we continue to struggle on the road under Silva further inhibits our development.

This 'world class' coach has had 100 games as Everton manager. How many games can any one recall that he made match-changing subs or tactical changes that salavaged the game for an Everton win?

By contrast, how many games can any one recall when Silva resorted to throwing on as many forwards he had available at the cost of the overall balance and effectiveness of the team from a losing position? A strategy that has not once resulted in our favour?

Of course, it is way too premature to presume Silva will radically alter the team that (finally!) performed so well v WHU, or more, anticipate another defeat on the road.

But the reverse side of that coin is to boldly presume (as some have indeed done) that we will win our next 3-4 games to further shoot up the league and pass to the last eight of the league cup.

I share the opinion of a good many in this thread expressing the discerning and reasonable view, based on 100 games and 18 months under Marco Silva, that a single win over WHU is not enough to elevate the manager to 'world class' status, or believe the proverbial corner has been turned.

That is not a cynical or negative view in my eyes, but a totally logical and rational one.

Trevor Peers
82 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:43:24
Mark #76.
I'm always optimistic we'll get there one day. I'm lucky to have seen success back in the day.

I really doubt it will happen under Silva though he just hasn't got the midas touch of a winner IMO he's weak.

Mark Guglielmo
83 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:51:38
Jay @81. Sorry if I'm being dense, but Silva's managed 100 games? I am awful at math, admittedly, but I only count 47 plus a smattering of League & FA Cup games, maybe 55 in total? What did I miss?
Steve Ferns
84 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:53:25
Trevor, he was really weak when he invited all that pressure on himself, by embracing the West Ham game as "must-win", and the inevitable consequences that could follow if he didn't win. He then selected an all or nothing team to go with it. Hardly the actions of a weak man. Did you see his Friday press-conference? He looked relaxed, happy and confident. The essence of calm.

No doubt this is what he projected in the week, and that showed in the game on Saturday as that was how the team played. The week before he had not looked so relaxed or confident and frequently looked like he had not slept and looked extremely worried. The guy is a winner. He's won a lot of football matches more than half of the ones he's presided over in over 7 years. He's also won three trophies and a league more recently than Jurgen Klopp.

Steve Ferns
85 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:53:52
Hull and Watford, Mark.
Jay Wood

86 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:56:58
Mark - my bad. That should read 100 PL games with his three English clubs, Hull, Watford and Everton.

By your own numbers, do you think it's acceptable that in 24 games of his 57 Everton games as our manager, only once - away to Lincoln in the League Cup this season - has the team come back to win after losing the first goal?

And that including all three clubs, PL teams under his management have conceded 46 goals from dead ball situations?

Trevor Peers
87 Posted 23/10/2019 at 00:00:43
Time will tell, Steve. I will be the first to heap the praise on if you're right.
Steavey Buckley
88 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:06:26
If Everton can get the ball forward as quickly as possibly, get efforts on target and defend well, Everton can win at Brighton.
Steve Barr
89 Posted 23/10/2019 at 00:07:36
Jay @# 81.

Well I for one agree totally with your summation of our situation over Silva's 100 or so games in charge at our beloved club.

I watch every game with optimism, and a heavy dose of blind faith, hoping that we will turn the corner, only to be left in misery for yet another weekend, kicking the proverbial dog!

These odd (good) performances have to be built upon and sustained week in week out before accolades can be showered on those concerned.

I really hope this will be that turning point.

For me the biggest disappointment has been the consistent underperformance (as far as basic effort and application is concerned) by the majority of the players throughout Silva's reign and a number of his predecessors for that matter.

The one thing an individual player does have complete control over is how much effort they put into each game.

The fact that they have not been able to put in that basic effort consistently and that Silva, and the rest of his coaching team, has failed miserably to motivate them is even more damning.

Let's see how the Brighton game unfolds. An away win, another good performance with appropriate grit displayed will ease my cynicism!

Mark Guglielmo
90 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:07:42
Jay, no problem, thanks for the clarification. I tend to immediately dismiss most historical statistics as they hold no bearing on the here & now.

Except in something like the set pieces, which is clearly a trend that indicates poor strategy or training, or whatever. I also can't condone in the least our poor away form, or our utter failure to ever come from behind. Those things tend to be the difference between 6th and 11th more often than not.

I will still put on my smiley face and say let's see what our new players, let alone starting XI, can or might do given those scenarios, maybe they'll break those trends!

Steve Ferns
91 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:08:49
Jay, it is not a good statistic. But have you ever properly considered it? Sure it sounds bad, but it also tells you something.

The more worrying statistic for me is this one: over half the goals conceded this season have been in the last 20 minutes. Because we concede so late, we often don't get as much of a chance to overturn the defeats.

We also win more than we lose. So where's the statistics about how often we win games when we take the lead? Genuinely, I don't have them. But I'd put good money that we have not lost many games where we score first. Under Silva, the first goal seems crucial. We are more likely to win if we score first, and obviously if we concede first we don't win.

Jerome Shields
92 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:11:39
Evertonfc. com again. When will they ever stop doing this.
Mark Guglielmo
93 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:15:52
So much of our inability to come from behind is because the players seem to become instantly deflated. The fight and will to come back hasn't been there. Luckily for most of us, many of those players weren't on the pitch last week, and god willing won't be for the foreseeable future.

It's easy to forget the mountainous uphill battle Silva, and Brands, have had to deal with thanks to just god awful personnel decisions and horrid spending. If this were all going on with an entire 18 wearing the shirt that were acquired by Brands, and put into Silva's system? Then we'd have a BIG problem. But it's still an island of misfit toys with relics of a bygone era (we won't even go into all the dead wages).

Does anyone think it was a coincidence that we played our best game in a long, long while when the starting XI was 7/11 Brands acquisitions? To me that's but a taste of what's to come. I remain hopeful that I'll be proven right and we can all gather 'round the campfire singing kumbaya together.

Steve Ferns
94 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:16:51
Mark, as stated above, our away form last season was average for the Premier League. 5 away wins last season was only beaten once in ten years by Roberto Martinez. Everton have always been a home team, and most Premier League teams do better at home than away. Check the home away tables and see for yourself.
Jay Wood

95 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:17:49
Mark, if you are sincere in saying you "tend to immediately dismiss most historical statistics as they hold no bearing on the here & now", can I offer to be your bookmaker?

The 'here and now' of this season before the win v WHU was five defeats in eight games, four consecutively.

Applying your logic to its most absurd extreme, the only game that posters should factor into their assessment of the team's (and the manager's) performances this season is the most recent one. The rest are insignificant in what we can expect going forward.

Quaintly naive and innocent.

Andy Crooks
96 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:21:43
Steve, take a deep breath. You have defended Silva, superbly, by the way. I have lambasted Martinez but never included Silva in that rant. I want you to be right, in fact, my belief that you know Silva, get him, believe in him, has stopped me from being even more evangelical in my calls for his dismissal.

Steve, Silvas's team selection at the weekend will be more important than the result. How will he line up, Steve? I can guess your thoughts on this but what are Marco's?

Mark Guglielmo
97 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:25:03
Jay, you have mastered the art of the straw man argument, I'll give you that. Kudos to you sir.

But since I'm dumb, can you kindly explain how a different team from a different campaign with different players, matters this year? I said year, not game. Though breaking it down even further, at least explain the difference between the first 8 games and the 9th game for me. I can think of one striking difference but I want to be sure.

Yes this post is dripping with so much sarcasm you could drown in it.

Mark Guglielmo
98 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:26:28
Andy, re: "...Silvas's team selection at the weekend will be more important than the result."

Now this I wholly endorse. If he reverts to form, so to speak, I'll borrow a pitchfork from one of you and lead the cavalry escorting him out of town, as it will prove nothing more than he simply cannot learn.

Otherwise, I'll fall back on my optimism.

Jay Wood

99 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:34:06
Steve, simply off the top of my head, I can recall a number of games when we have scored first and either lost or just drawn, sometimes with a two-goal advantage.

The respective ratio compared to never coming back to win from conceding the opening goal is not a favourable one.

Last season, leading twice at Wolves. Drew 2-2.
Away to Bournemouth, leading 2-0, drew 2-2.
Home to Southampton in the LC, leading 1-0, lost on pens.
Home Spurs, leading 1-0, stuffed 6-2.
Away to Newcastle, leading 2-0, lost 3-2.

There may be others I've missed.

Derek Thomas
100 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:41:55
Mark @ 98; It's all about how Silva sends the team out. What if the team is the same, but we go at it with a cagey 'away game' attitude. This will do us no good.

We have to, just like vs West Ham, take it to Every Team, hope they've been working on set pieces and let the cards fall where they will.

Steve Ferns
101 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:43:53
1. 10 men
2. 10 men
3. Dreadful team selection in the League Cup
4. Worst we've played under Silva at home
5. We were playing so well and I still can't believe we lost that game, we should have been out of sight.
Steve Barr
102 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:51:50
To quote the great Henry Root, some of you are

"either ingenious hoaxers or labouring under a massive misapprehension" if you believe Everton is on an upward trajectory after the evidence of the performances we have all seen over these past decades.

Statistics, clever arguments, whatever...its pretty clear to the eye that we have a long way to go. Hopefully we will all see that golden era again.

Steve Ferns
103 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:55:05
Derek, I think it depends more on how Graham Potter sends his team out. He's an intriguing guy. I read and heard a lot about him before he came to Brighton. He managed something of a mad club in Sweden with many eccentricities that he embraced. He worked some magic there, not least their European record.

Anyway, with Brighton he has shown himself to be unpredictable. He does like to play it out from the back. As Pellegrini does. But Pellegrini abandoned this tactic for good reason. We are the best team in the league at pressing the opposition high up the pitch. Statistics show that we've won the ball more than anyone in the opposition third.

Teams are countering our press by not playing it out from the back like West Ham did. But Burnley, Sheff Utd, and Aston Villa all showed how you can sit back and frustrate us. Bournemouth kept at it and got a decisive goal against the run of play.

If Potter lets Brighton play out from the back, I think that we can destroy them. If he's smart and plays longer passes, but with more purpose than West Ham, then we might struggle, particularly if Brighton go back to Hughton tactics and play narrow and compact and get men behind the ball. We have shown we run out of ideas, slow the play down and leave ourselves wide open on the break.

It's all about the tempo for me. If Gomes can dictate the rhythm of the game, and move the ball quickly, then we should beat Brighton, regardless of whether they let us press them. Brighton don't have a number 10 to hurt us, so Silva would be a fool to bring back Schneiderlin. Davies and Gomes would be enough to control the midfield but still help the defence if needed. We must also play Iwobi in the middle as unless Brighton are completely bonkers and go toe to toe with us, there will be no space for Sigurdsson in this game.

Jay Wood

104 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:56:53
Mark @ 97.

Ehrm...what straw man argument have I offered?

You'll probably now call me 'pedantic', but read your post @ 90 again. You did not specify 'year' as you now claim.

Indeed, you didn't clarify what kind of time span counts in your claim that "most historical statistics hold no bearing on the here & now."

That is why, as I clearly stated in my reply to you, the 'here and now' of this season before the win v WHU was five defeats in eight games, four consecutively. A considerable body of contemporary evidence by which to evaluate both the manager's and the team's performance THIS season.

That the poor early season form replicates Silva's performances at three clubs PL over FOUR different season may not be of significance to you, but (not unreasonably) it is to others.

Very curious then that in the same post you acknowledge that "set pieces is clearly a trend that indicates poor strategy or training" and that you "can't condone in the least our poor away form, or our utter failure to ever come from behind."

Those three things you yourself condemn have been an ever-present at the three clubs and the 100 PL games over (now) four different seasons during Silva's time in England.

Oh! As for your self-acclaimed 'sarcasm' Mark, it needs some work.

You're really not very good at it.

Jay Wood

105 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:10:35
Steve @ 101.

I don't deny there were mitigating circumstances in some of those games. I merely supplied requested examples off the top of my head.

I can understand your need to justify the examples I offer, but Bournemouth were also reduced to 10 men. The manager selected the team and determined the tactics for the LC exit v the Saints. The Spurs debacle was shameful and the Newcastle defeat the worst example of Everton's Jekyll & Hyde faces we have seen in the same game under Silva.

You - and Mark, evidently - may not like it, but there is a genuine debate and questions marks that Blues express about the abilities of our manager.

I have spoken well of him when he has done well. I have questioned him when he has done less well. There is nothing cynical or negative about it.

He has a lot, LOT more to do to convince many a Blue of his qualities than the single win over WHU last weekend.

Mark Guglielmo
106 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:16:47
Jay it's quite simple, really. Straw man: arguing that because A = B, that A must also = C

If A remained identical or constant throughout, then we would be comparing A to A. But since A hasn't remained identical or constant, then you cannot compare them. Thus, a straw man argument. And heck, then you double-down on it!

"...That the poor early season form replicates Silva's performances at three clubs PL over FOUR different season may not be of significance to you, but (not unreasonably) it is to others..." <------ straw man argument

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". -Wikipedia

For example, you using Silva's Hull City record as some sort of indication that he's not a good Everton manager. What on Earth does one have to do with the other? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Oh wait, did Hull City have the players Everton does? Did they play the same exact teams (with their exact same players) that Everton has? Is it 2019, or 2017? Time flies when you're wasting time on the internet. Even sticking to the first 9 games of 2019, the first 8 were very, very different than the 9th, in terms of personnel and strategy. Unless you disagree, in which case say so and I'll at least know where you're coming from.

The set piece problem is without a doubt a problem, and has been for Silva-led teams. To me, that's a strategy issue, not a player issue. You can put any players in there and if the strategy is poor, it's not going to matter who's executing on. You may think that's splitting hairs, I don't, it's all good no matter what.

I hope we win Saturday, COYB. Also, please tell my wife my sarcasm stinks. She'll argue with you more than I have!

Cheers Jay

Steve Ferns
107 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:19:36
Jay, and when have I ever said there's not a long way to go during this run. Four defeats don't make him a bad manager and one win doesn't fix everything. Nothing wrong with some constructive criticism but there was not much of that at the start of the thread. Many taking umbrage with Digne's view of Silva simply because they don't like Silva and dismissal of the win and back to how it would have been had we lost.
Mark Guglielmo
108 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:20:13
Jay "...He has a lot, LOT more to do to convince many a Blue of his qualities than the single win over WHU last weekend..."

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this, myself included. But if you go allllll the way back to the start of this comments section, you'll simply see that most people are negative and proactively cynical. Damning the man and team before the game as even happened? Why bother watching then, go spend a lovely Saturday with your families instead.

Steve & I and a few others are just being optimistic and hopeful that last weekend's performance finally 'clicked' for Silva and now moving forward we'll be better. Perhaps much better even!

The vast majority here just want to complain and apparently, predict the future.

Steve Ferns
109 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:23:28
Jay, can you confirm that our long term target, Reiner Jesus is starting to prove himself. I read this was driving his price up and that others other than Everton were also interested. Of course you won't have the inside track on that, but any observations on the lad now he's actually playing?
Bill Gienapp
110 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:26:30
Southampton actually scored first in the League Cup - Ings scored shortly before halftime, then Walcott equalized late and we went on to lose on penalties. However, we did of course throw away the lead twice against Millwall and then lost altogether in the FA Cup.
Steve Ferns
111 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:26:48
Also the Chelsea scout, Piet de Visser, is quoted as saying that Everton offered Ziyech (of Ajax) €80k a week and he turned us down.
Karl Meighan
112 Posted 24/10/2019 at 02:06:24
Digne has been as bad as anybody in them four games, his defending as been poor this season. The changes should have been made weeks ago.

It was only Silva who couldn't see the ball had to go forward quicker. Yes we missed Gomez but lets see how long before we go on another losing streak.

As well as we played West Ham almost equalised from another corner of all things...

Jay Wood

113 Posted 24/10/2019 at 02:33:08
Mark @ 106.

Very good that you can Google and copy-paste from Wiki, but you evidently haven't grasped what represents a genuine staw man argument.

Once again, seemingly unbeknown to you, you actually provide your own answer in your 'Philosophy for Dummies, 101'.

The constant is the same person - Marco Silva.

The further constants related to said person are the three conditions you yourself acknowledge:

1) a recurring inability to recover and win having conceded the first goal

2) a recurring inability to defend set pieces

3) a recurring inability to get wins away from Goodison Park

I haven't, therefore, put up a 'straw man' argument in replying to you on the very terms you yourself (again!) quote. I have posted the FACTS relating to Marco Silva's record as a PL manager, NOT as a means to 'refuting' your argument. Indeed, in truth you haven't offered one worthy of the name.

To continue to claim as you do that no conclusions can be drawn from this season's results prior to the WHU game because the team selections, the fixture list, the wind direction, whatever, do not correspond EXACTLY to the same dates and fixtures and weather 1-2-3 years ago is a non-sequitor. (Google being your friend, I'm sure you'll discover what that is).

Perhaps a look in the mirror and reading back your posts in this thread might also lead you to re-assess who, exactly, is putting up staw man arguments to uphold a wobbly position whilst not engaging in the powerful counters you are presented with.

I also suggest you re-read the posts you dismiss as being "negative and proactively cynical".

Are they? I see plenty expressing delight at Saturday's performance and win - even praise for the manager. But quite reasonably many also express one solitary win is not enough, that his team selection will be revealing and that there is a large body of evidence as to why some are not going all Bruce Willis Die Hard 'yippee-friggin'-ki-yay' and believing a definitive corner has been turned on a single win.

Now I'm going to settle down in front of the telly to watch the all-Brazilian Libertadores semi-final between Flamengo-Gremio.


Kieran Kinsella
114 Posted 24/10/2019 at 03:29:41
Mark 106

Lol you made a right monkey out of “Jay”

Gavin Johnson
115 Posted 24/10/2019 at 04:00:38
I think that's game, set, match to Mark @ 106 ;)
Darren Hind
116 Posted 24/10/2019 at 05:03:44

You don't seem to grasp the mentality of the football fan. I've never met one yet who doesn't want to be proved right. It has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism.

Many people didnt want Silva in the first place, said so at the time. Now they cant wait to kick him if it isn't going well.
The most relentless critic of Silva on here was a massive Big Sam fan (although he's tried to deny it since). He thinks fat head didnt get a fair crack of the whip and people on here treated him badly. He desperately wants Silva to end up with a worse record than the Night King. . To be proved right.

Were all guilty of a little confirmation bias Steve. Sitting on the other side of the house doesn't make you more optimistic. You nailed your colors to the Silva mast so emphatically, you feel compelled to fight his corner. Sometimes like a mother protecting her children.
Silva is not like you. he never will be. He is only here because we pay him a fortune.
Dont take it so much to heart when he is criticised - Even if that criticism appears unfair.

We are footy fans, you can switch us on and off like a bedside lamp

Darren Hind
117 Posted 24/10/2019 at 05:17:20
Paul T

When I played for Bangor in the seventies. Win Percentage was my strike partner.
A cursory scan through all the fanboy websites will prove he had the best stats in the Welsh league, but he never did play for his country.

You are right though. Statistically speaking; Big Win was king,

Tony Abrahams
118 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:02:12
Very good assessment that Darren, I mean I'm fuckin made-up my team has won, but that manager is shite, and we'll do well to stay up if this useless, emotionless C..t, doesn't get the sack soon!
David Thomas
119 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:21:16
Every evertonian wants Silva to be a success as it benefits our club.

People are entitled to express their opinion from what they've seen so far on whether he will be a success or not without being labelled negative and pessimistic.

Exactly the same way with the players. I personally don't think DCL is good enough. That doesn't mean I constantly criticise the young players at the match or don't desperately want DCL to prove me wrong it's just a personal opinion from watching the games.

Harry Wallace
120 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:29:16
A “world class” manager wouldn't find himself in the relegation zone with a decent squad and wouldn't play Calvin-Lewis and Morgan in the same team and expect goals.
Daniel A Johnson
121 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:47:46
Is Mark Guglielmo Clarke Kent to Steve Ferns Superman?
James Hill
122 Posted 24/10/2019 at 08:13:40
Steve Ferns – only points on the board matter, don't they? Look forward not back.

I don't believe Silva is going to get us anywhere and, now that he pretty much has his own players on the pitch, I would expect us to have more points on the board.

So far, I am seeing nothing that suggests we are going to be anything but a mid-table team. Just my opinion at the present time, but I can tell you honestly I would love to be proven wrong and watch a Silva team go on and win something. I can't see it at the moment and couldn't care less about stats that prove nothing.

The adage ‘the table doesn't lie' is never more true than at the moment. Brighton is a six-pointer. If we lose, we are right in the relegation mix. Win and we start to pull away.

James Hill
123 Posted 24/10/2019 at 08:34:31
By way of looking forward... maybe as fans we should discuss what win ratio we think should be expected for the next 10 games, taking in to account the resources Silva has at his disposal?

In my opinion, this would generate a better conversation.

Steve Brown
124 Posted 24/10/2019 at 08:40:13
When Silva was hired, I didn't support the appointment. He had been fired by Watford for a collapse in results and relegated with his previous club (noting he came to Hull City late). That was partly due to my irritation that Everton were again hiring a manager who had not proven himself with a top club in England, Spain, Italy or Germany and regularly competed in the champions league. Hiring from Preston, Wigan, Soton, Palace and Watford gets you what we have endured for almost 20 years.

But once he was hired, I backed him. Together with Brands, he built up a talented young squad, in patches played good football and showed he could get results against the Sky Six. His performance this season has been worse, in terms of team selection, tactics, formation, substitutions and preparation.

Silva's stubbornness in not changing his zonal marking plan when it plainly doesn't work (due to him/players/who cares what?) is infuriating. But, he also lost his two best players in Zouma and Gueye, did not get a centre half and like every other Everton manager until the end of time did not get a top striker to replace Lukaku. I also can't stand the idea of sacking yet another manager, paying him multi-millions in compensation when calmness and patience might result in success (HK1 as an example).

So his coat is on a shaky hook for me and he had better improve his performance and lose the stubbornness/stupidity that did for Martinez and Koeman. He is going to be judged on a game by game basis because that is frankly all he has earned.

Jason Lloyd
125 Posted 24/10/2019 at 09:08:32
Harry 120 nailed it.

Anyone who thinks playing 2 DMs helps the team is not world class.

Or playing a one in eight striker

Derek Knox
126 Posted 24/10/2019 at 09:15:40
Steve Brown @124, good post which certainly encapsulates my feelings toward, and regarding Silva, and I think from reading many comments, others too.
Peter Mills
127 Posted 24/10/2019 at 09:58:11
Damn you Steve Brown #124, I was just about to post something similar, though less eloquent.

“His coat is on a shaky hook” - that's not a phrase I have seen or heard previously but it's perfect.

Tony Everan
128 Posted 24/10/2019 at 10:04:34
This is the ususal midweek PR conveyor- belt stuff, take it with a pinch of salt.

For years it has been one step forward two steps back. Against West Ham it was one small step forward. To prove he is a good manager wont come from midweek PR platitudes, it will come from hard proof. Starting on Saturday against Brighton.

Proof for me is when Marco can start putting winning teams out pro-actively rather than waiting until the horse has bolted and then making changes we all can see are necessary, under duress.

Laurie Hartley
129 Posted 24/10/2019 at 11:40:17
I haven't got through all the posts as yet but let's get one thing straight:

In the lead up to the West Ham game, with a reasonable set of fixtures, we accumulated 7 points from 8 games, loosing the last 4 on the bounce.

Put another way 7 points from just over 20% of the season. If you do a simple sum that's heading for less than 35 points.

Whatever way I look at it, that is relegation form.

I am made up we won on Saturday and I was chuffed with the way the players went about their work. We need more of the same this week and through November because from the 1st to 21st December we have to play:

Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea, United & Arsenal.

I won't be burying my head in the sand.

Laurie Hartley
130 Posted 24/10/2019 at 11:51:13
Steve # 52 - so are you suggesting Marco Silva is a better manager than Harry Catterick?
Steve Brown
131 Posted 24/10/2019 at 12:40:53
Peter @ 124, that phrase was one of my old man's favourites. He has plenty more of them as well!
Mark Guglielmo
132 Posted 24/10/2019 at 12:50:42
Jay, you're a good egg. I bet our merry-go-round discussion would have been smashing had it occurred at a pub (and if I drank). Oh, and did Reinier play?

Steve @124. You make some excellent points save one. Why would a manager who's "regularly playing in the CL" (paraphrasing here) come to EFC? I have this debate with another mate of mine all the time. It's a snap-your-fingers magic trick point of view, and with all due respect, rather naive.

Yes, yes we all know Everton has a long, storied history and is a "big, elite club." I hate to break it to you like this, but no we're not. Historically, sure. In the age of modern football (let's call this 1992-present)? Not even close.

Which presents the original problem. Why would a top manager come here? There are so many other clubs where success is far more easily attainable (whether or not that's down to managing in a 'lesser' league is a debate for another day). Because we've largely been average, I'd wager there is a very limited talent pool we have access to. Which puts us where we are today, being forced to roll the dice on an unproven and hope they jump up the ladder, taking us with them.

Even that fella across the way, loathe as I am to type these words, needed Dortmund to take a chance on him (2 years after he got Mainz relegated, incidentally). Now look where he is. Great managers aren't born, they're built.

So which established, European cup playing manager would come to our little fixer-upper?

Laurie 129/130, go read the debate between Mr. Jay and me, you'll get a kick out of it I'd imagine.

2 more days 'til matchday you lot! COYB

Ray Roche
133 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:01:32
My word, there are plenty of statistics on this thread, some giving an interesting look at Silva's win percentage, both for and against. Funny things, statistics.
Apparently, according to statistics, the number of people carrying knives has rocketed in the last two years. Terrible!
This rise in numbers coincides with the inclusion of Butchers in the people surveyed.

Funny things statistics. Not always what they appear.

Mark Guglielmo
134 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:04:57
Ray, did you know that 72% of statistics are made up on the spot? ;-)
Steve Ferns
135 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:06:41
Mark, Marco Silva was a manager who was regularly in the Champions League, with Olympiacos and Sporting and also had Europa League with Estoril. The alternative to Silva was Paulo Fonseca who had had a few seasons in the Champions League with Shaktar. But Fonseca is about the best we can hope for, not an Allegri or a Mourinho.

As for getting teams relegated, not only did Klopp oversee Mainz' relegation (there for the full season too) but Rafa Benitez oversaw the relegation of Newcastle Utd (not there for the full season though), but he also was in charge of Extremadura who he got promoted and then relegated. Antonio Conte went down with Arezzo being in charge for most of the season (he was in charge, sacked midseason, then brought back in the spring and relegated and sacked again). Loads of top managers have been relegated.

Fonseca is at Roma now. He's done alright, not bad, not particularly well. Roma have been in the Champions League in recent years and expect top 4. He had them in 6th, but I think that was reasonable considering their resources, as the only club above them who have less resources is the excellent Atalanta who we know all about. This season they're still sat 6th, expecting top 4 but bemoaning an injury crisis. Fonseca does not enjoy universal backing and the natives are a little restless but not quite baying for his blood.

Laurie, nope, I never said Silva was better than Catterick. I merely pointed out that two much maligned Everton managers, namely Martinez and Silva, have the 3rd and 4th best win ratios of any Everton manager ever, and better than Catterick. My point is not that they are obviously then the 3rd or 4th best managers we have ever had, it is that they are not the worst.

I think Silva should be given more time to prove himself to you. He should also be cut more slack after a win. People seem desperate for him to fail and just dismiss anything he does right.

Dave Abrahams, if you read this, I would like your view on a matter. It occurred to me that Tom Davies might have just had his best game in an Everton shirt. He played a deep role in a 4231. He was alongside a midfielder whose strengths lie in his ability with the ball, particularly his passing. So this made me think back to his Youth team days. Liam Walsh is no Gomes of course, but his strengths at u18 level made him excel in a lot of the areas where Gomes similarly excels. In the past Davies has played alongside Schneiderlin and Gueye. So, was this the first time we were able to see the real Tom Davies, with a partner whose game suits his own and so was able to bring out the very best in him, and would a prolonged period of these two playing together allow Tom Davies to develop in the way we all hoped he would when he was only playing for the u18s?

Mark Guglielmo
136 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:17:05
Yup Steve, great examples. And even they come with an asterisk; Shaktar doesn't have to play Leicester every season, let alone the likes of City et al

And I hope you're dead on about Davies. The subtle shift in what was asked of him (move the ball quickly, use his energy to take the ball away, etc.) really showed what he can do in the right lineup with the right pairing/partnership. I don't think it's a coincidence that he didn't give the ball away, was 2nd only to Gomes in dispossessing the opponent (13), and led the squad with an 85% pass completion rate.

Now if he could just finish sitters...

Jay Wood

137 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:24:39
Steve @ 109. I've been keeping Dave Abrahams up to date on young Jesus.

It may come as something of a surprise to you that his Flamengo manager and namesake Jorge Jesus is handling him very astutely.

For about the last 20 games now, since August, Reinier has mostly sat on the bench, had a couple of starts and full 90 minutes, but mostly gets 20-30 minutes here and there.

In total, he has appeared in 7 league games (417 minutes in total) and got 20 minutes in a Libertadores game. He has certainly been productive, scoring 3 league goals and getting two assists.

He scored a 90th minute winner away to Fortaleza two games ago and in their last league game, within minutes of them both coming on in the last half hour, he set up the goal for the other sub as Flamengo saw off city rivals, Richarlison's old club, Fluminese, 2-0.

Highlights Fortaleza v Flamengo (he scores at the death with a good header) - Link

Highlights Flamengo v Fluminese (he rolls the ball into the goalscorer who then works the position to score the 2nd, about 2:50m into the video).

Reinier did not get on the pitch last night as Flamengo absolutely swamped Gremio 5-0 in the second leg of their Libertadores semi-final. Gabigol got two. Flamengo will now meet last year's winners River Plate who saw off their bitter rivals in the other semi Tuesday night. The Libertadores is now a one-game final and is in Chile late November.

Jorge Jesus after a rocky start on moving from Portugal to Brazil is now a near demi-god. 11 points clear at the top of Serie A, he has also guided them to their first Libertadores final in 35 years.

On another note, have you seen the latest training video from Finch Farm? Judging from the footage Silva will have a selection dilemma this weekend as all the missing players from the WHU looked in fine fettle - Delph, Coleman, Schneiderlin. Yerry Mina looked fine also. Interesting to see the likes of Anthony Gordon, Lewis Gibson and Morgan Feeney training with the 1st team.


Ron Marr
138 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:25:41
Yo Fernsie what's your source for Silva having a better ‘win' record than Catterick with Everton.
Jay Wood

139 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:30:51
Opps! From my previous post, I forgot to include the link to highlights of the Fla-Flu game as it's known in which young Jesus assists the 2nd goal.


Steve Ferns
140 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:34:22
Ray, the number of criminals carrying knives has sky rocketed. It's nothing to do with butchers. I have yet to deal with a butcher carrying a knife in the Police Station or at Court, however, I have had a marked leap in the number of other people who before the Police or the Courts for carrying knives. It's never been so prevalent as it has been for the last 12 months.
Ken Kneale
141 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:34:47
Steve Fearns not sure your stats are right but in any event, two league championships, one FA cup and two charity shields plus glorious football for the majority of his reign put Catterick light years away from two lightweights like Martinez and Silva. Catterick also had a hugely impressive record at other clubs prior to Everton for both results and football quality - presumably this alerted John Moores to secure his capture
Rob Halligan
142 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:37:09
Jay, have you heard the latest news about Reinier? According to the red echo he's about to sign a new contract with Flamengo

Everton have been linked with Reinier again.

Only this time, the Blues' chances of landing the Brazilian wonderkid appear even slimmer.

Marco Silva's side were first linked with the 17-year-old in the summer with some reports even claiming they had a bid rejected for his services.

And while Everton are said to still be keen on him, journalist Jorge Nicola, cited by Sport Witness, claims he is set to sign a new contract with Flamengo that would run until 2024 and have a €70m release clause.

Steve Ferns
143 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:37:43
Thanks Jay. But I would never use the words Jorge Jesus and astute in the same sentence! I can't stand the guy. I had to check to make sure it was the same one. I know you know who he is, but others will not know he was Marco Silva's successor at Sporting.

Ron, I got the stats for games played off a couple of sites, including transfermarkt.com and worked out the win ratios for myself as they wouldn't do it for me.

Ron Marr
144 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:46:54
Everton Results site has 46-41 Catterick
Ron Marr
145 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:49:21
https://www.evertonresults.com/managers7.htmEverton manager stats
Ron Marr
146 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:52:04
Steve Ferns
147 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:55:19
Ron, I'd go with the Everton Results guy. He's far more likely to be accurate. However, his stats on Silva are before the West Ham game so needs another win and his win ratio knocking up to 42.6% which takes him back above Moyes. His points percentage would also go up to 49.4%, which is level with Koeman.

Thanks for bringing that site to my attention, I shall add that one to my favourites.

Transfermarkt.com is very accurate for the present day stuff, and they differ on Silva's record:

P54 W23 D10 L21 F80 A71 P79 PPG 1.46

Everton Results have:

P53 W22 D11 L20 F76 A67 P% 48.4 (which is PPG divided by 3 and multiplied by 100)

I would have thought they might have recorded the Southampton LC game differently, is it a draw or is it a loss because of penalties? I'd go with the latter, but there is the matter of the 4 goal difference in the goals scored and goals conceded column.

Soccerbase go with the Everton Results Stats, but do not include goals scored or conceded.

Toffeeweb only have his stats for 46 games!

Steve Brown
148 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:59:57
Mark @ 132, "Why would a manager who's "regularly playing in the CL" (paraphrasing here) come to EFC? ". Money and ambition is the answer.

As I have mentioned on here several times, before Koeman was appointed Diego Simeone's agent contacted Everton to understand more about Moshiri's 'project' for the club. If we pay top dollar and sell the ambition of the club we'll get a top manager. If we level down our ambitions we'll be as crap as the next 25 years as well. Come on chap, show a bit more ambition!

Ron Marr
149 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:02:52
You're welcome Steve.
Ray Roche
150 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:13:42
Steve Ferns@141

Too many stats Steve. They've affected your humour gland.

Steve Ferns
151 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:18:58
Steve, do you actually believe that Simeone story? It's far more likely that any contact Simeone made with Everton over the "project" was to see what money was being offered. This line of thinking is more likely when you bear in mind that he signed a new contract on slightly more than the purported wage we were offering shortly afterwards (£6.5m a year).

Everton paid Koeman a £6m a year salary. Allardyce might have walked away with more than £10m, but he was also on around £6m a year. Silva is on between £3m and £4m a year. Jose Mourinho earned £25m a season at Man Utd. Guardiola gets £12m to £13m a year at Man City.

Our financial capabilities are grossly exaggerated on here. We cannot afford Mourinho, even if his base salary is down to £12m a season and it turns out that that £25m a year is on the basis of his contract being paid in full for half the time it was meant to last.

If we offer £12m a year, so Guardiola level wages, and get in a coach of that level. Would we really just say go on coach the players you have? Or would we have to spend another £300m to bring in the players the coach would want. Now FFP would not allow this, but forgetting that, who is going to pay for this? Moshiri? What if he does not want to? What if he likes Silva and he wants to give him time? Do we force Moshiri to sack his man, and then to cough up £300m?

Derek Knox
152 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:27:39
Steve F, various posts, one of my favourite quotes about statistics came from a fellow Scot. Which could be applied to yourself. :-)

He uses statistics like a drunken man uses a lamp post, more for support than illumination. — Andrew Lang

Steve Ferns
153 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:32:03
I wasn't sure Ray, but that is the only field where I am an expert.
Mark Guglielmo
154 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:34:40
Steve @148 aye, that's the rub innit?

Money and ambition is nice and all but when the recent factual history of our club only proves out that we apparently want to win now - at least our supporters do - and managers are only given maybe 2 years to do so, again I ask, why would they? Silva, at ~15 months, has actually had the longest reign under Moshiri.

How do you have ambition if you have to win immediately?

Let me fine-tune my question (that you didn't answer); which manager or managers did you have in mind that could take us from midtable to top 4 in under 2 years?

Mike Gaynes
155 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:47:02
Steve #148, sorry but Mark #132 has it exactly right. If you're a CL manager with ambition, you want to go to a better CL club, not a chronically mid-table club that doesn't have access to world-class talent. And the money is better jumping up than jumping down. I think Mark's point of view is simple common sense, not lack of ambition.

And regarding Simeone, there were certainly rumors that we were interested in him, but never the slightest evidence that the interest was mutual.

But Mark #136, geez, ease up on young Tom. It was his first real chance in more than two years, after all!

Mike Gaynes
156 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:49:48
DK #152, love that quote but I wish you hadn't posted it. Now Darren Hind will be wearing it on a T-shirt.
Mark Guglielmo
157 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:51:06
Mike haha, I love the little viking! I hope he keeps playing. Just a little humor :-)
Jay Harris
158 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:57:28
I don't doubt the players like Silva and he seems to be a decent bloke.

I also do not believe our problems are all of his making.

Our main problem has been scoring goals when we dominate possession and conceding stupid goals from set pieces.

Some of that has been down to tactics and team selection but even against a poor West Ham team we struggled to score and put the game to bed until Sigurdson came on.

For me we do not have nearly enough goalscorers in the squad. Take Siggy and Richy out and who else would you bet on to score us goals.

It also looks like the injury jinx is gonna hit us again with Mina being reported as being out for a few weeks.

Brighton away is the litmus test for me.They will be up for this at home and although they are one of the lesser teams will be tough opposition.

Win this and it will be a little more convincing.

Mike Gaynes
159 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:58:04
I knew that, Mark, I just have a warm fuzzy spot for the kid because he scored in the first minute of my first game at Goodison, April 2017. And I don't think he's had another scoring chance since!
John McFarlane Snr
160 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:58:18
Hi Steve Ferns [various post's], a hypothetical situation,"If Everton appointed a manager who only managed for two games, [both victories] would that 100% record make him the most successful Everton manager in the history of the club?" I trust that you will view this as an indication of my dislike of statistics, which I believe can be manipulated to suit any argument, and not as a personal insult to you.

I feel that this subject can be ambiguous, that's why I tend to go to the match with an open mind. I don't think of statistics etc, because the games I attend are played and refereed by mortals. I suppose in a hypocritical sort of way I do pay attention to one stat, the one that shows the result at the end of the game.

Ron Marr
161 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:01:19
Sounds like something from Ford Kiernan or Gary Hemphill 😂
Ron Marr
162 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:06:05
The quote not you John Mac.
Jay Wood

163 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:13:56
Rob @ 142.

That's why I've always been skeptical about the whole Reinier Jesus to Everton story since it first broke.

Brazilian clubs are not mugs. Most are hugely dependent on selling their young talent to Europe at inflated prices. It is widely reported in Brazil that his current contract, which expires at the end of 2020, already has a €70 million release clause, way above the €40 million Everton allegedly offered.

Flamengo is THE biggest club nationwide in Brazil. They know what they've got in Reinier Jesus and even if their ever was a window of opportunity for Everton to steal him through, I rather think that window is now shuttered and bolted.

At the time of Everton's reported interest in the lad, the quoted €40 million for a 17-year-old yet to play a single minute of senior football just didn't make sense to me. Maybe one day we can play the market and take a punt like Real Madrid and City did in paying top dollar for Brazilian teenagers as they did to land Viniscius Jnr and City's own Jesus, but that day still seems a long way off for Everton I would suggest.

Now he is getting game time in the first team (and he doesn't turn 18 until January) AND delivering the goods, Flamengo has already opened negotiations with him to extend his existing contract to beyond 2020. You can only believe they will also raise the value of his release clause even more.

Just doesn't look a goer to me Rob and never has.

Give me Gabigol for (allegedly) a third of RJ's price. His (third!) loan in as many years (this year with Flamengo) ends in December, perfectly timed for the January transfer window. Milan want rid for anything between €20-30. He would be a steal. He is hot-hot-hot and would slot right into the current Everton team and give us goals, I'm certain.

John McFarlane Snr
164 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:17:39
Hi Ron [161 & 162],

I have no idea who Ford Kiernan or Gary Hemphill are, nor what the quote was, so no harm done.

Steve Brown
165 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:20:35
Mike @ 155, not rumour, fact. My son was with Simeone on a sports shoot last week and asked him!
James Hughes
166 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:24:49
Let me fine-tune my question (that you didn't answer); which manager or managers did you have in mind that could take us from midtable to top 4 in under 2 years?

pointless, just pointless.

Mark Guglielmo
167 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:26:06
Jay @158, luckily we don't have to take Richy out of the lineup! As for the Icelander, take away penalties, set pieces in favorable spots, and the occasional howler from distance, does he really? Seems like an awful lot of very specific instances where he's a 'reliable' goal threat.

As for no one else scoring, it's hard to score from the bench! Maybe the players we saw against WHU if given an extended look, will also find their scoring touch. But we won't know unless we try, and we as supporters give them a chance in our eyes.

This whole "do it instantly or else" mindset is the same as our overall lack of patience with managers and gets us nowhere.

I do agree with you about Brighton away being a huge litmus test for us.

Mark Guglielmo
168 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:27:30
James @166 do you mind clarifying for me? What's pointless?
Mike Gaynes
169 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:30:24
Interesting, Steve #165, what did he say?
James Hughes
170 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:35:31
Not a big player in football recruitment but I have some suggestions for our next manager.

The german fella - Ham Cherfan, or how about Kaii Bard Tos-Phot

really winds me up- if you know so much, name someone shit.

Derek Knox
171 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:37:33
John McFarlane Snr, not wanting to steal Ron Marr's thunder, but Ford Kiernan and Greg Hemphill were the stars of ' Still Game ' which was shown on BBC Scotland, and I believe also in England.

Basically it was a cult TV show, set in a fictional area of Glasgow called Craiglang, in which they played two pensioners, Jack and Victor who resided in a multi-story block, next door to each other.

A very funny show and well worth watching in my humble, but slightly biased opinion, I'm sure you would enjoy it John.

Kevin Dyer
172 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:38:16
The way I see it Silva was in imminent danger prior to the WH game, now he's just under pressure. A win at Brighton eases that somewhat, a draw things stay the same, a loss and he's back to imminent danger again.

Same team should start, barring injuries. Selection should be on merit and form, therefore no reason to change the 11. If Silva does, he's a dope.

Brian Williams
173 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:43:03
Derek, not biased at all. Still Game was/is a classic. Loved it from day one when I used to watch it with my Jock mates when "away" and then watched it at home on my return. What made it better was that my missus couldn't understand a word which I found hilarious as it just sounded to me like my mates having a blether!
James Hughes
174 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:43:49
Mark, was that enough clarity for you
Brian Williams
175 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:46:31
You missed out that very classy German midfielder Gert T'Phukk.
Steve Brown
176 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:01:09
Mark @ 154, I am in a different time zone from you and working, but do want to answer your question.

It isn't an impossible task to attract a top manager. Target your preferred candidate, show relentless determination, sell the ambition of the club and back it with a hugely competitve package. As for the contention that we cannot afford it, simply calculate how much we spent to terminate the contracts of Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce. We had to pay £10 million alone to buy out Koeman's contract, so it is not a money issue.

Lack of ambition is the issue. It was endemic in the club under Kenwright and supporters rightly despise him for it. However, we all come on here to relentlessly criticise the lack of progression, success and ambition in the club, but then refuse ourselves to accept that we have the ability or right to do any better. Curious isn't it? Anyway, I am for sticking with Silva a bit longer.

By the way, I love your enthusiasm at a distance for the club.

Mike Gaynes
177 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:01:58
Steve Brown
178 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:11:50
Mike @ 169, my son works in sports marketing and did the creatives for a shootin Madrid. Some lucky competition winners earned the chance to have a training session run by Simeone at Wanda Metropolitano with Morata playing as well. I forced my reluctant son to ask Simeone whether there was any truth in the rumour.

He told my son that he HAD instructed his agent to approach Everton as he was impressed by the ambition of the club. At the time, I think he was frustrated that Athletico Madrid were not being ambitious in the transfer market but they promised him a change and boy did they deliver.

Look he might have just been polite as apparently he came across as a nice guy! But there we are.

Brian Williams
179 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:12:46
Blether- a good chat, chinwag, talk between friends. You heathen Gaynes!

Her'es a funny one for ya. Two gobshites travelled to Ghent instead of Genk for their CL match last night. Fucking dullards!
Mind you know they know how it must feel for the majority of their fans travelling for their home games lol!

Paul Tran
180 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:13:11
Mike, 'blether' is a Scottish term for an informal conversation, usually of little major consequence.
Paul Tran
181 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:15:32
Top show, Still Game. Very, very funny.
John McFarlane Snr
182 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:16:14
Hi Derek [171],

I have seen that programme quite a few times, extremely funny, but I didn't know the full names of the characters.

Ray Roche
183 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:21:25
Brian, @179.

The two dumbos were from Leicester and London. So, a couple of local lads, eh? (by their standards)

Bobby Mallon
184 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:22:53
Steve Ferns@103

So what your saying is Marco silva is a one trick pony who can only set the team up to play one way. He won't change tactics to cope with the long pass ( ball tactic ) and we can't cope with it when teams do play that way

Brian Williams
185 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:28:59
Haha that makes it even funnier Ray!
Mike Gaynes
186 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:29:24
Steve #178, wow, that's great info. Tell your son for me that he should forgive you for the pressure. The hungry informational maw of TW must be fed!

Seriously, it's good to know that the interest was genuine. I always come from a place of skepticism when I hear of big names being interested in either managing or playing for Everton -- figure it's either a ploy or just somebody trying to generate some buzz for their blog. Glad to be shown wrong in this case... although I probably would have injured myself attempting backflips if Simeone had actually come to us. I consider him the single best motivational manager on the planet.

Brian and Paul, thanks for your continuing linguistic educational efforts towards us Colonials. My vocabulary appreciates it.

James Hughes
187 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:30:23
Mike - I see PT has already answered the query, The show is well worth watching. It shows the over 65's will not go down without a fight.
Paul Tran
188 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:34:01
Always happy to help a 'septic' in need, Mike.
Mark Guglielmo
189 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:35:44
James @174 indeed it did, thank you! We're on the same page (though now I have to go research those 2 guys you mentioned) you and I.

Steve @176 work schmerk, we have important things to discuss here :-)

I'd love an established, winning-attitude and maybe even proven manager! In direct contrast to all my optimism that we've hopefully turned a corner this season, I'm equally pessimistic over our prospects at doing so. I'm a riddle inside a puzzle trapped within an enigma haha. And thanks, since I can't go to the matches and cry/rejoice with the locals in a pub, this is all I can do. Be obsessed from afar. One day though!

Mark Guglielmo
190 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:37:56
By the way, while we of course aren't always going to agree, I have to say that I do love ToffeeWeb because even in disagreement, everyone is polite and articulate in their stance(s).

I cheers you all, even the ones who are blatantly wrong ;-)

Derek Knox
191 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:38:03
Paul Tran @ 180, I like your explanation of 'blether', so it's a bit like TW sometimes? :-)
Paul Tran
192 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:39:28
Why do you think I spend so much time on here, Derek?
Kieran Kinsella
193 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:46:12
Steve Brown

Your Simeone story makes sense to me. Simeone for years seemed to be linked with "big" prem clubs but for some reason or other (his style of play/perception he is happy where he is) his name seems to have slipped off the radar. From the outside looking in there was a media driven perception that Moshiri would bank roll Everton a la Man City. I could see that piquing his interest due to the financial glass ceiling at Athletico.

Mike Gaynes
194 Posted 24/10/2019 at 17:02:27
Mark #190, glad to have you here, and I'll try not to agree with you too often.

And I love your light touch of irony when you say that "everyone is polite."

Oh, wait, did you actually mean that??

Jack Convery
195 Posted 24/10/2019 at 17:34:35
Still Game - Class TV Comedy. Only the Saga of EFC trying to win silverware is funnier.
Darren Hind
196 Posted 24/10/2019 at 17:58:16
Two doors down gives it a run Jack.

A perfect example of that wonderful gift which I'm sure is exclusive to Scots.

Your never quite sure whether you will die of embarrassment or laughter

Mark Guglielmo
197 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:02:00
Thanks Mike @194!

I was serious, but for context, you should read the forums at GrandOldTeam. This place is Disneyland with no lines by comparison!

Only they're all in their 20's. Whippersnappers

Peter Neilson
198 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:03:43
Reportedly Simeone is on over E20 million a season at Athletico, highest paid employee and maybe highest paid manager in the world. On top of which he's got Champions Leagues footy pretty much guaranteed every year. Hard to see why he would leave.
Paul Tran
199 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:07:53
Darren, GT, 2.35 Cheltenham tomorrow. 4 runner race. Nicholls says he's ready but will come on for the run. Al Dancer, very good novice hurdler who beat Trump, when he was poorly ridden, is the main danger.

Not my kind of betting race but then, I've already got a vested interest.

Darren Hind
200 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:26:53
Tough one Paul

Best watched, as the winner of this will probably be the one who makes the smoother transition to the bigger obstacles. 11/8 fair reflection of his chances.

Beat this fella and you'll be dreaming of coming back suited and booted in March.

Jay Harris
201 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:36:43
Mark #167,
I always say the proof of the pudding is in the eating so at this stage I will confidently say with the exception of Anthony Gordon who hasnt had a chance at this level yet that nobody I have seen with the exception of Kean and Richy will out score Siggy and BTW he only scored 3 pens last year so thats 10 open play goals now if only another member of the team bar Richy can score the same we will be going places.
Paul Tran
202 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:41:36
Darren, I'm only interested in him having a good first run over fences tomorrow. Get him jumping, get him home safe. Wouldn't surprise me if both horses have good seasons. If he takes to Cheltenham we can start dreaming of March.

Gary Carter
203 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:42:36
We constantly underachieve because we have appointed bottom of the range managers, Martinez was never a top 6 manager, Koeman (arguably the best in paper) was never a top 6 manager and Silva is nowhere near it. I admit, I was actually really happy when we signed Koeman, I thought it was a good appointment. I was absolutely mortified when we appointed both Martinez and Silva, I wanted them to succeed but they didn't and haven't, Silva, quite amazingly, is actually worse than Martinez. I've not included Allardyce in their as he was never going to be a long term appointment but I hate to say, we'd be closer to top 6 this season with him and not Silva in charge.
I'd love to know if the board actually have shown a crumb of ambition and approached a Mourinho, Allegri, Simeone, Nagelsman I suspect not. We'll end up sacking Silva and appointing Howe, the English Martinez/Silva and the circus will continue
Joe McMahon
204 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:53:25
Gary@203, absolutely agree with you. I do also think it would be difficult to attract a manger we would all want with our lack of CL football credentials. Also until we actually see the new stadium being built I would guess it also doesn't help. A club with a home ground like Goodison in 2019 is a club not really going anywhere.

We are also the club that had David Moyes as manager for 11 bloody years.

Rob Halligan
205 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:13:14
Seeing as this is the only thread that seems to be getting used, I may as well put this piece of info on here.

The red echo reporting that Monaco CANNOT recall Sidibe in january, amid interest from AC Milan, and we definitely have first option to buy him next summer, assuming of course, that he wants to make his move permanent. Would like to see him get an extended run in the team now.

Gary Carter
206 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:23:55
Joe@204 yes we aren't the most tempting prospect admittedly but the premier league has a lot of cash floating around in it so I'm sure we can offer something competitive, we have a half decent squad and a record of backing our managers over the last few years. I just feel there is a small club mentality stifling any chance of progress, appointing the likes of Allardyce, Martinez and Silva really is bottom feeding and guess what, we end up near the bottom and underachieving it's no coincidence. I actually believe Silva is such a bad manager we overachieved last season and the same applies for Martinez's first season, that was off the back of the defence and discipline left by Moyes, love him or hate him we played with organisation, discipline and passion that I've not seen since he departed
Mark Guglielmo
207 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:25:17
Jay @201, oh believe me, a goal is a goal is a goal. But that doesn't discount where the goals come from, unless they're all high-percentage chances inside the 12' or so. Gylfi tends to score from distance (tends to, not all), and those chances are fewer and far(er?) between. In other words, you can't count on them. His lack of pace and inability to turn quickly to move the ball upfield is much more a problem. Again let me clarify, I think he's a very skilled player, but those skills are limited. I think he can be very valuable in a role now (as we saw last week), but not as the centerpiece of the offence. I think it's more likely he'll need to adapt to the style we showed last week than we adapt a gameplan to accommodate him.

I'm still not sure how you can confidently state that no one else can score semi-consistently when we've barely seen most of them start, let alone play. Except Gordon, who's never played a PL game in his life? That's crazy talk, my friend. One thing we as supporters are very, very bad at is predicting the future. I'll just let things unfold, and will also say mea culpa if I'm proven wrong. I'm plain awful at science and it's been many a year since I took any level of academia on the subject, but I do remember the differences between theory, proof, and fact (or evidence). Right now we're all bandying about theories without proof.

Gary @203/206 we had a round and round discussion re: our ability to attract "top 6" quality managers, so I'd encourage you to read probably the 50 posts above yours. In sum, why would such a manager come to Everton, and who do you have in mind? Mourinho is not being realistic, neither is Allegri. I mentioned above that great managers aren't born, they're made. Every single great manager today started somewhere, didn't they?

You say small team mentality is holding us back. I'd posit that many fans have big club mentality when we haven't been in 25 years.

Mark Guglielmo
208 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:29:41
Rob @205, that was a load of horse droppings 'article' or 'report' the moment the ink dried. Red Echo simply re-posted it from, you guessed it, a Milan newspaper. I can't laugh hard enough.

Sidibe is here on loan, we have the option to buy (at what looks to be a paltry £12m no less). That's it, good for us if he pans out!

Duncan McDine
209 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:44:27
Rob, Monaco aren't the only ones that can't recall Sidibe... I pretty much forgot he existed until last weekend. Apparently so did one of the Goodison car park attendants.
Mike Gaynes
210 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:53:53
Mark #208 and Rob #205, our reported option to buy Sidibe at the end of the season is £13m.

Regarding the loan, both Fox Sports Italy and Tuttosport published an Andrea Bracco article on October 15 to the effect that Monaco could recall Sidibe in January and sell him to Milan. Bracco is a longtime blogger and a reliable source on transfer stories involving La Liga, Serie A and Argentina. We don't know the terms of the loan, but it's possible there are exit clauses. Perhaps it would involve Monaco either refunding the €2.5m loan fee we paid for Sidibe and pulling him back, or giving us the option of topping Milan's bid -- which presumably would be higher than our buy option.

Of course there may be nothing to it as the Echo says, but I'm not writing off this particular rumor. Bracco is pretty credible.

Mark Guglielmo
211 Posted 24/10/2019 at 20:13:37
Mike have you ever seen this site? https://www.thefalse9.com/2018/01/football-transfer-sources-rumours-website-reliability.html

It's a year out of date, but presumably mostly the same. No mention of Bracco but Tuttosport is a tier 4 reliability site, which equates to "Not to be trusted at all. These companies make money out of ensuring that you read them and they will make up anything to get you to harness advertising revenue."

They don't discount individuals either; ex. the TImes doesn't rate at all, but Paul Joyce is tier 1 (for Everton/Liverpool). I just don't put any stock in most of the Italian sources, unless it's intra-Italy to a degree. Just something I thought might be relevant.

Brian Williams
212 Posted 24/10/2019 at 20:34:04
You're right mate Two Doors Down is excrutiating comedy. Pure class!
Bill Gienapp
213 Posted 24/10/2019 at 21:12:02
Gary (203) - not that this alters your fundamental point, but Koeman actually *did* crack the top 6 with Southampton when we hired him. That seems kind of amazing in retrospect, but they took advantage of Chelsea collapsing under Mourinho and the RS transitioning from Rodgers to Klopp that season.
Dermot Byrne
214 Posted 24/10/2019 at 21:15:33
Horse: "Petite Power" tomorrow.

Ew prob.

Tony Hill
215 Posted 24/10/2019 at 21:25:50
The Echo says that Monaco have no clause to allow recall of Sidibe but we do have a clause allowing us to buy him for £13m at the end of the loan. Sorry if someone else has already mentioned this.
Mike Gaynes
216 Posted 24/10/2019 at 22:45:00
Thanks, Mark, I will check out that website further.

Not familiar with Paul Joyce... do you agree with the site's rating?

Laurie Hartley
217 Posted 24/10/2019 at 22:57:21
Steve # 135. Have another look at my post, I asked if you were “suggesting” Marco Silva is a better manager than Harry Catterick. I really didn't say you “said” he was. There was a way out there but you passed (sideways).

I didn't need him to, but Ron Marr # 146 has put that one to bed.

Steve, I sincerely hope that you are right about Marco Silva but as I have said previously, I think he will let you down.

Mark # 132 - If you want to have a debate with anyone on ToffeeWeb Jay Wood will always accommodate you. He is very good at it. I suspect like me he is an optimist but from what I have read, doesn't let that get in the way of his judgement.

I needed that win on Saturday because our performance prior to the West Ham game had put a severe dent in my optimistic outlook on all things Everton. I am looking forward to the Brighton game with a glimmer of hope but Marco has a lot of work to do to convince this particular Evertonian that he can deliver the stability we need over the next three years that will provide the platform to get us into the new stadium.

Mark Guglielmo
218 Posted 24/10/2019 at 23:44:28
Mike @216 Joyce seems to be decent; everything's by tweets these days and I hate the cesspool that Twitter is lol

So far I've found that none of them are great but what I have noticed is that when 2-3 decent sources all pick up on something it's usually bang on. For example, it was the most reputable French news transfer source + Joyce weighing in, that first brought Sidibe to my attention. But they miss too. Once the player holds up the new shirt, then I'm sure hahaha

Laurie, we're all in this together, perhaps collectively we can will them to win?

Roman Sidey
219 Posted 25/10/2019 at 02:03:12
Apologies if this has been discussed already but 200+ comments is a lot to sift through. People early on in the thread brought up Siggy not appearing to pay attention to Silva before coming on. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, who's to know? What I did notice regarding players coming on is that Digne was the one talking to Kean when he was brought on. I'm not sure if Silva was too for very long, but it rose my interest in players speaking certain languages.

From interviews so far, I assume Kean doesn't speak much English yet. I'd also assume he doesn't speak Portuguese. The amount of ways Silva and he are able to communicate is reduced by this unless Silva can speak Italian, which is admittedly a much easier language to learn than the other Latin-based languages. I'd assume that Digne, being French, is probably adept at Italian enough to get a message across, or perhaps Kean speaks French as well. All this is just based on cultural assumptions, but certainly isn't irrelevant when judging how much improvement team cohesion needs.

I know that teams employ translators for such situations, but, having worked with a rugby team with guys who couldn't speak common languages and having another guy stand there translating everything you say before doing a drill or team run, it does have an impact and obviously things are often lost in translation. I actually read once that Arsene Wenger eventually just had a French-speaking dressing room and players that weren't Francophones had to use translators. Could be bulshit, but if it's true, that, to me, is fascinating.

Steve Brown
220 Posted 25/10/2019 at 07:24:41
Mike @ 186, I was also chuffed to find that it wasn't total bull, though the hard reality is that he still with Athletico and not with us. I might be idealistic/ delusional but I am sticking with my ambition that we could pull off a great managerial hire if all the side fell in the right order. Maybe it's because I will NEVER accept that the Shite are a bigger or better club than us.
Steve Brown
221 Posted 25/10/2019 at 08:13:30
But for now we should stick with Silva - one game at a time.
Laurie Hartley
222 Posted 25/10/2019 at 08:46:35
Mark # 218 - I will be in that. I always want us to win.
Mark Guglielmo
223 Posted 25/10/2019 at 14:46:19
Cheers to you, Laurie
Darren Hind
224 Posted 25/10/2019 at 17:55:16
Dermot @214

Who the fuck Knew ?????????????

Credit where credit is due.

Andy Crooks
225 Posted 25/10/2019 at 17:55:43
Dermot Byrne, thank you. You have had a glass raised to you in a pub in the outskirts of Belfast. A few guys filled their boots. Name a charity dear to your heart and we will happily donate a few quid. Top man.
Paul Tran
226 Posted 25/10/2019 at 18:04:24
Well done, Dermot. I very rarely bet in amateur riders' races, so I left it. Hats off to you and enjoy the winnings!

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