Williams leaves for Wigan

Wednesday, 31 July, 2019 38comments  |  Jump to last
Everton Under-23 midfielder Joe Williams has joined Wigan Athletic after the Blues let him go in a permanent deal for an undisclosed fee.

Williams has been on a series of loan assignments in recent seasons as he gains first-team experience but was allowed to leave on a full-time basis to join another former Blue, Antonee Robinson, at the Championship side.

He has signed a three-year contract with the Latics.


Reader Comments (38)

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Jay Wood

1 Posted 31/07/2019 at 20:38:07
More clearing out of lockers and, unusually for Everton in recent years, getting a [yet another] undisclosed fee for an academy lad. We usually let them go for free after extending their contracts 1-2 times too many, hoping they'll come good. I like how Brands is operating.

Good luck, Joe. You seem to be a good pro who will earn a good living from the game.

Ed Prytherch
2 Posted 31/07/2019 at 20:49:50
It looked Silva had a role for him a year ago but the pre-season injury took him out of the picture, then he played well for Bolton. It is a measure of how far we have moved on that he became surplus to our requirements.
Michael Kenrick
3 Posted 31/07/2019 at 21:03:32
They are really setting a high bar for the youngsters and it seems not many of them are good enough. Seen very little of him to judge... so we have to trust those who have, of course.
John Dean
4 Posted 31/07/2019 at 21:08:34
I'm sad to see Joe go without getting a first-team chance. He's a whole-hearted player who always gives 100 per cent and he'll do well for Wigan. But I have to agree with you, Ed, about how we've moved on. A lot of that U23 team from 3 years back are doing very well now (Walsh, Ledson, Dowell, Connor, Jones, Robinson) and it's still possible one of them will do well in the Premier League.
Ian Bennett
5 Posted 31/07/2019 at 21:41:39
Brands is certainly getting busy.

Joe Williams gone, Gueye gone, Robinson gone, Lookman gone, Vlasic gone, Onyekuru going. A raft of loans. Jagielka, Williams, Garbutt freed and essentially the end of Tarashaj, Galloway.

Lukuka bonus should be due on top of the above freed-up wages and transfer deals.

Just leaves Pennington, Mirallas, Besic, Niasse, Tosun, Bolasie, Martina, McCarthy on outgoings.

Sam Hoare
6 Posted 31/07/2019 at 21:47:56
Seem like very small fees for Robinson and Williams. Maybe big sell-on clauses.
Fran Mitchell
7 Posted 31/07/2019 at 21:48:40
I expect Joe to be a Premier League player in a year or two. Good player by all accounts, but it is unlikely he'd have got much gametime so the right move all round.

Be interesting to see if Dowell stays...

Jamie Crowley
8 Posted 31/07/2019 at 21:55:10
Ian @5 -

Just consider that list of players you've penned.

That is an amazing amount of players to try and move on.

Brands is doing one hell of a job in my opinion. I think, especially if he lands 2-3 more, he's easily our most valuable person at the Club.

Of course Moshri is, it's his money. But my God Brands is seriously shaping the future of Everton, and really doing a job.

And I agree with Michael. As we raise the bar, it's getting really difficult for the youngsters to break into our first team.

Stephen Brown
9 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:06:29
I think the key to our future might not be keeping hold of Pickford, Richarlison, Gomes or Kean but it might be keeping hold of Marcel Brands! Especially if he keeps on with this apparent high level of work!

Might have been a masterstroke putting him on the board!

David Pearl
10 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:09:36

I'm sure also that he will make a Premier League player in a couple of years. Same with Dowell. I'm not so sure Davies and Calvert-Lewin will be with us then either. They might go abroad or play for a lower half team but it's about time we had someone at the club to make the hard decisions.

Chris Gould
11 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:15:22
Tom Davies will follow him out the door before too long. Probably on loan at first.

There was a table which showed we were 16th in the Premier League 2018-19 for minutes given to kids who had come through the academy. I was stunned as Brands and Silva spoke a lot about developing youth into the first team. I think they've realised that our youth players are good, but not good enough. PL2 Champions means nothing. It appears that we are now buying youth from elsewhere and will be developing them instead. Calvert-Lewin probably has this season to prove his worth or he'll also be gone.

Personally, I love it. I feared that we had forced ourselves into a corner with the 'developing youth' line but, after a few months, it was clear that Silva didn't trust all of Kenny, Holgate, Dowell and Davies. Calvert-Lewin is the last kid standing from that crop.

If they're good enough to get us challenging the top 6, then play them. If they have real potential but aren't there yet, then loan them out. I don't enjoy watching kids struggling to develop in the first team. It holds us back and crushes their confidence when fans get on their backs. Watching a player trying hard but ultimately offering very little is frustrating. Then you get told that he's a local kid and he's got loads of potential. Two seasons pass and you still don't recognise this potential they talk about. You begin to question your own judgement. But then Brands sells the kid and you realise you were right all along. That's Tom Davies 12 months from now.

This is all very encouraging from my perspective. Apologies to the many that love Tom Davies. It goes without saying that I would love to be wrong.

Bill Gienapp
12 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:19:17
Seems like we're adopting a much more ruthless stance where the youngsters are concerned - no more new deals on the basis of promise and potential. If the odds of you contributing to the first team aren't strong, then you'll be moved on.

I'm still bummed we let Robinson go, but it was difficult to see a viable path for Williams to break into the midfield picture.

Ian Bennett
13 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:20:23
Yep, having Brands as a skilled operator is a huge move in the right direction. We've pissed too much money up the wall on crap.

You only need to look at the quality of our squad Vs the wages we pay out. We must be in the top 20 wage payers in world football - yet have a squad outside of the top 100 ranking I'd suggest.

Richard Mason
14 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:20:44
I think Davies will be used in a more advanced role this year filling in for gilfi when not playing or substituted.
Chris Gould
15 Posted 31/07/2019 at 22:37:23
Richard, there's absolutely no chance of that happening. He doesn't have the ability. He simply hasn't improved and doesn't possess any of the skills required for the role. Why would we replace Sigurdsson with someone who can't pass or shoot?

If we buy Gbamin or Lemina or both, then Davies may not even be on the bench.

Anthony A Hughes
16 Posted 31/07/2019 at 23:07:46
Hard to argue with that assessment of Davies. If he had half of Barkley's talent to go with his heart, he'd probably do okay.
Richard Mason
17 Posted 31/07/2019 at 23:25:56
There is a player there somewhere, Chris. But I do agree he has regressed a little. Just going on pre-season, he played more advanced and showed a couple of signs, more so harried and pressed the back line.
Si Smith
18 Posted 31/07/2019 at 23:46:01
Joe Williams moved on for a low fee, following Robinson to Wigan, seems to be a little bit of a trend occurring here.

I'd take the above, get a little relationship with a local team (Wigan) and help them out, help our lads out, but were not a charity so, in return, we need a big sell-on fee for any rough diamonds. Also, a buy-back clause should be something we start adding for a few years down the line.

About the above comments regarding Davies, I agree with Richard in that Davies will be used more this season in place of Sigurdsson, hopefully in league games we are comfortable in, also League Cup games, and hopefully build him up to become the player we hope he can be.

I don't agree that he hasn't improved, I believe the sale of Williams shows just how tough it is to move on in this league, getting games is a rare commodity for 20-year-old centre midfielders, you only need to look at players like Harry Winks who now looks a player, yet had to wait patiently for his career to kick start as it did last season in his 23rd year!

Considering so many of our fans slam Davies, he has played 75 games for the Blues despite being only 21 years old.

Imo, Davies will be a good player for the Blues at the very least; he could eventually even become a great Everton player if he adds a bit more to his make up.

Fran Mitchell
19 Posted 01/08/2019 at 00:25:03
Davies has just turned 21. Considering he's been involved in a rather erratic first team since his promotion, he's acquitted himself well. At moments, he's looked great; at others, less so. Unfortunately, when he looks poor, the whole team has been woeful so he hasn't 'gotten away with it' like other young players do.

I think he'll be a good player, maybe a great one. He just needs find his true role.

I think Dowell too just needs this, and hopefully at Everton

Steve Ferns
20 Posted 01/08/2019 at 00:51:26
Joe Williams has gone for good money, £1.5-2.0m. Unsure how it's to be paid, and wouldn't have thought Wigan had cash. Good luck to the lad.

Tom Davies will reach the very top. I am certain of it. Do not write him off.

Bill Watson
21 Posted 01/08/2019 at 01:45:18
I, too, think Tom Davies will eventually become an established Premier League player, either with us or elsewhere.
Justin Doone
22 Posted 01/08/2019 at 04:44:28
I can't comment on Williams as he's hasn't been tested in the Premier league.

So I can only trust he's not good enough and will not be good enough in the next 2 to 3 years.

At the very least sell on / buy back clauses as part of any permanent deal.

However, I'm disappointed that Vlassic and Lookman are considered not good enough. For me the coaching is not good enough if they can't get those two playing in a successful winning team.

I thought it would be Sam to blame for selling the Crown jewels but it appears Brands and/ or Silva are to blame and yet the majority seem happy about it now.

Of most concern is bringing in top class players to boost the first team. Where are they?

Alan J Thompson
23 Posted 01/08/2019 at 04:46:36
I think Davies suffers from being asked to show more defensively as his more natural game is going forward. He is not alone in this as Gomes and Dowell seem similarly criticized and there seems to be room for only one of them, and there's no prizes for guessing which one. Indeed, they all add to the question of who will play alongside them so that the downside of their defensive work is not so noticeable. Which raises the question of what style we may change to if we do indeed sign Reinier Jesus and who will make way for him and possibly Delph and Gbamin.
Bill Gienapp
24 Posted 01/08/2019 at 08:22:46
Justin - not entirely sure what you're on about? We're on the brink of landing Moise Kean and perhaps Reinier Jesus as well, and you're carping about Vlasic? Yes, he has a lot of potential, as does Lookman obviously, but I'm not sure how you can roast Brands for selling "the crown jewels" when he's replacing them with superior young talent. I'd sell Vlasic a dozen times over if it meant we could get our hands on Kean.
Simon Smith
25 Posted 01/08/2019 at 09:47:30
It will always be Doone and gloom for some
Chris Gould
26 Posted 01/08/2019 at 10:19:46
Steve, I am equally certain he won't.
I think you're too emotive to be objective when assessing Davies. You have a huge soft spot for the lad.
Talk of him being an Everton great in the future is nonsensical.
Silva is buying players in his position. He doesn't trust him, and Davies will struggle for any game time. Rightfully so.
Mike Allison
27 Posted 01/08/2019 at 10:42:40
I believe we are required by the rules to have four players in our registered 25 man squad who came through the academy, so we'd better keep some of them. This makes the selling and loaning out of the likes of Robinson and Kenny slightly puzzling. I think we still have Davies and Baningime but that's it. We signed Holgate and Calvert-Lewin from other clubs so I don't think they count.

Maybe someone is more au fait with these rules than I am and I've got this wrong, but back up full back seems to be the best place to sneak your ‘home-growns' into the squad.

Derek Knox
28 Posted 01/08/2019 at 11:04:45
While I acknowledge the importance of having M Brands on Board and a much awaited pruning of the bloated staff on the books is required, it is unfortunate that lower earners and players with genuine potential seem to be the first to go.

I also know that the high earners at the other end of the spectrum, are almost impossible to shift because of ages and ridiculously high wages, should be the ones to depart in an ideal world.

I do think that in the cases of Williams and Robinson, we have let them go for a song, to Wigan, and just hope we don't regret it later. There again we don't know what goes on at Finch Farm or in training, or what the players themselves have said in the grand scheme of things.

Richard Mason
29 Posted 01/08/2019 at 11:49:16
Obviously with Joe royal being at Wigan he has managed to get two very good players with a lot of championship experience for a song
Fran Mitchell
30 Posted 01/08/2019 at 12:02:46
One thing: look at Liverpool- they won't sell Wilson for less than 20 million. They have another lad that Gerrard's rangers want, but Liverpool are demanding 7 million. They got 20 million for Solonke. They got 17 million for Ibe.

Yet we get buttons.

Obviously, the market values more players from these teams just because, but it also seems we are push overs.

Vlasic and Henry have CL and international experience and go for less than Championship players like Solanke and Wilson.

Not to mention the sale of our best player for 28 million (Wilson + some lad who was on loan in Scotland)

Si Smith
31 Posted 01/08/2019 at 12:05:35
Chris 26.

You say Silva doesn't trust Davies, how do you work that out when Silva himself made him captain, turned down loan deals and gave him a bumper new contract ?

Maybe he's just not quite there yet physically, maybe he's just not quite as consistent as midfielders who are more experienced than him.

Imo Davies has more than proven he's a premier league player by playing 75 games before he was 21 years old.

Let's try and get behind our youth instead of slamming them.

The very worse case scenario is the likes of Davies, DCL, Kenny and Dowell fill our bench instead of expensive overpaid misfits like Schneiderlin, Sandro, Tosun and Niasse.

Iain Johnston
32 Posted 01/08/2019 at 12:40:31
Mike #27,

There is no rule regarding academy players, last season we had two with many EPL squads having none at all.

There's an 8 player homegrown rule which many say raises the value of English players disproportionately.

Homegrown has a certain age criteria as the likes of Fabregas, Pogba, Lukaku, Schniederlin and Gylfi are classed in this category.

Steve Ferns
33 Posted 01/08/2019 at 14:07:13
Iain of those 8 home grown, 4 can be trained anywhere, but 4 have to be trained by Everton. You do not need to register any player under the age of 21, ie Moise Kean. You only need to register the players you intend to use. If you do not register a full 25 then the gaps count towards the 4+4.
Chris Gould
34 Posted 01/08/2019 at 15:01:22
Si #31, because he was using him less and less as the season went on, and also because he is clearly in the market for central midfielders. Also, I haven't slammed him. I just don't think he's good enough for us, and I don't believe he ever will be. I haven't said that he can't forge a decent career elsewhere.

There is no rule stating that we need 4 players from our academy in the squad. UEFA have that rule, but the Premier League doesn't. It's 17 non-homegrown and up to 8 homegrown. There was talk of clubs having to have 2 from their academies, but that hasn't been introduced.

Mike Allison
35 Posted 01/08/2019 at 15:15:47
Thanks for clearing that up lads...!
Jay Harris
36 Posted 01/08/2019 at 15:19:27
I had high hopes for Joe Williams and Robinson and feel that Wigan have benefited from the "Kenwright" benevolence.

I just hope there is a sell-on clause as I believe both players will go on to have good careers.

Unfortunately it is too big a leap from the U23 to the premiership except for exceptional talent such as Rooney and (hopefully) Kean which does not help younger players at all.

David Chait
37 Posted 01/08/2019 at 17:56:01
Not surprised to see Joe go and happy he hasn't become a professional loanee.. we got pittance though compared to what club clubs seem to get for their youth players.. anyway not my issue to be honest..

Joe hadn't cracked the first team squad by now so expecting that to happen would have been a major anomaly..

Issue I have is that Silva has shown no inclination to play youth much. Reading that stat that we were 16th of playing youth or academy players is shocking for us but it didn't have to be..

We have noticeably given less playing time to the kids but expect them to be ready exactly how without it? Lookman was clearly good enough to get decent playing time but also wouldn't be given a proper run. Then what do we expect when he does eventually get minutes? I'm frustrated at how we manage our youth. Too many hang around the u23s for too long blocking progress of others eg Simms.
Then the youth that have a real opportunity are kept on the periphery of the first team getting limited runs.

We are excellent at creating professional footballers.. we are poor at creating Everton footballers right now.

Si Smith
38 Posted 01/08/2019 at 19:02:15
Chris 34.

I see what your getting at in terms of Davies lack of game time, especially near the end of the season, but around that stage of the season Davies signed a new deal which must have been down at least partially to Silva.

Also mate, I didn't mean you had slammed Davies, I'm just talking in general about our fans and youth player.

I appreciate you getting back in regards to my comments mate, and although I don't fully agree i do see your valid point.

My main opinion is I believe Davies may develop more physically and push on as a solid squad player for the blues.

Cheers Chris.

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