VAR secures predicted Everton defeat

By Michael Kenrick 01/12/2019 403comments  |  Jump to last

Morgan Schneiderlin passed a late fitness test after he picked up a knock but is not named in the starting XI

Everton begin their most testing run of the season at the King Power Stadium where they take an injury-ravaged side with Marco Silva in a precarious position despite a show of unity from Marcel Brands.

With key midfielders Gbamian, Gomes and Delph out injured, Morgan Schneiderlin passed a late fitness test but is only on the bench, with Davies continuing his run and Anthony Gordon named on the bench. Upfront, the inevitable lone striker is Dominic Calvert-Lewin.

Michael Keane comes into a three-man backline alongside Yerry Mina and Mason Holgate. There is a recall, too, for Alex Iwobi, who has come off the bench in Everton's past two top-flight games. Dennis Adeniran from the U23s travelled with the squad but does not make the bench where Bernard is fit enough after his latest injury layoff. Cenk Tosun drops to the bench but there is no place for Theo Walcott or Seamus Coleman in Silva's squad.

Everton kicked off in their salmon-pink changed kit, Mina whacking it long and The Pinks holding it for a few passes until Richarlison passed it to the home side, then Richarlison was called for a foul on Maddison, setting up an early set-piece, headed away by Richarlison.

There was a fine break by Everton, Richarlison feeding Calvert-Lein but the ball back across to the Brazilian was too challenging to produce any kind f finish that seemed to be on the cards. But Everton were immediately under pressure and having to defend an array of probing attacks that ended with Digne getting a free-kick to relieve that pressure. But a very lively start from both sides.

Some really nice play saw Digne pick out Sidibe on the other side but his shot was always rising above the bar. And it was then more pressure from The Foxes, Everton double line of defence closing down all avenues. But Vardy almost set up Peres who could only tap the ball toward Pickford.

Everton attacked again but Calvert-Lewin couldn't control another difficult cross. Everton had kept possession well, however, and were doing well enough to maintain the balance in a high-tempo start. But now they were now losing possession in their own half and Peres got through, with sight of goal, firing inches wide with Pickford covering it.

Davies looked to play his text-book forward pass but this one was intercepted, giving the ball back to the home side. There was some fun end-to-end stuff, Keane trying to release Calvert-Lewin with Schmeichel out quickly, then Vardy being shepherded well by Keane in defence.

From a Leicester throw-in Peres threw himself to the ground after brushing into Keane. Iwobii then gave away a set-piece that saw Sigurdsson called for handball by the local yokels but it had come off his face.

Everton built nicely down the right, Iwobi pushing an inviting ball out to Sidibe whose fantastic first-time cross was bullet-headed through a despairing Casoer Schmeichel into the Leicester net with impressive power by Richarlison, an absolute top-class ever-so-simple goal, the first scored against the Foxes in ages.

In response the Foes broke through again, Peres driving in but a tremendous saving tackle by Mina denied Leicester the equalizer. However, Everton were getting calls against them for fouls in increasingly dangerous positions, Richarlison heading clear but the ball coming back in, a fierce volley blocked as the ball pinged around the Everton area.

Barnes seemed to have the beating of Holgate but Sigurdsson covered well and snuffed out the danger, with the Foxes stunned to be behind at the half-hour mark. A cross did finally reach Vardy but all he could do was send it high into the stand behind the goal.

Richarlison went down with a smack on the head but got up without treatment! Vardy and Barnes got into the Everton area, Mina tackling Vardy well but then Holgate went across Chilwell, who dived well, Referee Scott calling a penalty immediately, despite the fact that Holgate had not touched him. But a long, long VAR check finally vindicated Holgate, as well as Mina's earlier challenge on Vardy: No Penalty!

The game was now going very well for Everton at this point but Leicester attacked with pace, Pickford forced to save well, and then a scramble as shots came in quick succession on the Everton goal. Ricardo went down with a head injury but no foul called.

Everton however, were noticeably wasteful with their forward balls, careless in possession, inviting the pressure from a very lively Leicester front line. But that was giving the Everton defence a good work out at least. Everton withstood the pressure and the ball eventually found Calvert-Lewin but his shot was blocked as only 2 minutes of added time.

Digne fouled poorly wide left on the Everton side, Sigurdsson getting a yellow for his long forward pass that was seen as kicking the ball away after the whistle. The free-kick was defended, Vardy's shot blocked well, but a corner called, and cleared as Scott blew the whistle with Everton ahead at the break.

the Foxes restarted what would surely be a critical phase of the game for both sides, Vardy into the Everton area early on but prevented from shooting. At the other end, a gift of a giveaway but Calvert-Lewin played it completely wrong and a glorious chance was gone in an instant.

A fine corner by Maddison was headed away well by Richarlison and Everton broke on a fantastic cross-field ball from Iwobi, Richarlison messing up a little before pulling it back for Sigurdsson to drive off a defender for a corner. Keane's header saved easily, but another corner won, this one powered over by Richarlison.

Everton's solid defensive play sub=ddenly broke down with a poor pass from Davies and the Foxes were in o goal, Pickford saving well Sidibe behind for a corner. That was defended and Everton broke again, Sidibe in acres of space but his cross was just a yard in front of Calvert-Lewin who was unable to control it.

Everton broke again but Iwobi wasted the cross, and Sigurdsson could not dig out a shot in the follow-up. At the other end, Tielemans volleyed well over. Everton took the play back up the field, Sidibe winning another corner that Sigurdsson took, but not before Mina and Indidiy played silly buggers, both getting a sharp talking to, with nothing coming from the corner.

Another fine Everton attack, another inviting ball in from Sidibe, but criminally no-one within shooting range, as Peres went off for . The ball fell to Holgate but his shot was blocked as Everton were doing everything possible to get the vital second goal. A free-kick from Sigurdson was defended, but a fantastic ball delivered in by Iwqobi from the other side was wasted as three Everton players fought each other for the header, and no-one could convert.

It was Leicester's turn to pile forward, Iheanacho firing at Pickford, Everton holding firm. And Everton again advanced down the right thanks to the foresight of Iwobi but Sidibe could only deliver the ball to Schmeichel.

But Davies gave up the ball too easily in the middle and Peres was off on another fast move through the Everton defence that saw Vardy finish at the far post, Everton's resistance finally broken.

Digne got to a good position by the corner flag but again a wasteful cross was easily picked off and Leicester could build again, this time with the knowledge that they could indeed walk through the Everton defence if they got things right.

Barnes was the next to gallop through but Pickford was positioned well to save. However, the Foxes were now attacking in waves, Everton not convincing enough with the ball in possession, giving it up again, and allowing Leicester to run at them, A great ball from Teilemans headed inches over by Vardy.

Schneiderlin and Kean were readied with 15 minutes to go, but the momentum now was all with the home side and a massive opportunity had been missed by chances squandered in attack when goals must be scored. Another sweeping Foxes surge saw the ball incredibly played to Holgate's feet with Vardy lurking.

Everton advanced down the right, a fine feed from Richarlison to Kean who saw Schmeichel out of position and tried a first-time shot that was inches the wrong side of the post.

Leicester attacked again but Holgate cleared the ball confidently. However, the ball didn't stick upfield and Leicester could smell blood and fear, as Barnes was switched for Albrighton, who had a long record of causing Everton pain in the past. Teilemans lashed a shot inches wide as it seemed to e only a matter of time before they would score the winner.

Sigurdsson released Kean again down the right channel, with three men on him, but all he could do is fire weakly at Schmeichel, and Leicester ran up the other end, winning a corner. Pickford gathered well.

With the final minutes ticking away, the game was pretty even with chances to attack at either, as 3 minutes were added. Sidibe went down but the Foxes carried on, Richarlison was unable to make anything of a chance to run at the stretched Leicester defence. Bernard eventually came on and tried to keep the ball.

Leicester City were given a golden chance to advance on yet another midfield turnover but Teilemans was flagged offside before he lashed the ball past Pickford. However, VAR reversed the decision, goal given, and an Everton win evaporated into a cruel defeat, and perhaps the final nail in Silva's coffin? No: not the Everton Way, because he will be given credit for a valiant but ultimately losing Everton performance.

Scorers: Vardy (68'), Iheanacho (90+4'); Richarlison (23')

Leicester City: Schmeichel, Chilwell, Ricardo, Soyuncu, Evans, Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Barnes (82' Albrighton), Perez, Vardy.
Subs: Ward, Justin, Morgan, (52' Iheanacho) Choudhury, Praet.

Everton: Pickford, Digne, Sidibe (90+4' Bernard), Holgate, Keane, Mina, Davies, Sigurdsson [Y:45+2'], Iwobi (78' Schneiderlin), Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin (78' Kean).
Subs not Used: Lössl, Baines, Gordon, Tosun.

Referee: Graham Scott

Attendance: 32,144

Reader Comments (403)

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Sam Hoare
1 Posted 01/12/2019 at 15:46:45
Hmm. I get that we are short of midfielders but I think Vardy may be licking his lips at the prospect of our three somewhat immobile centre backs. Unless the wing backs play deep he will have channels to run into all day.

Silva finally changes his formation but I’m not sure the timing and choices are right.

Tony Hill
2 Posted 01/12/2019 at 15:50:27
I think it's the right team. Much depends on Sigurdsson and Iwobi obviously.
Jim Bennings
3 Posted 01/12/2019 at 15:52:24
Ultra cautious, he’s clearly fearing a beating.

Watching Norwich play really well against Arsenal, we are in serious danger of going down this season, anyone who says otherwise is a clouded individual.

Jay Wood

4 Posted 01/12/2019 at 15:52:44
I'm guessing the dearth of fit options in midfield has forced Silva into playing three centre backs, because otherwise I don't think Leicester is the best opposition to use it otherwise.

I fancy Tom Davies could be a busy boy today looking at who else shares the midfield duties with him.

On a completely different issue, but one that has been mused upon at different times on TW: the time taken on the sideline with instructions, tablets and flip charts when introducing subs.

Ahead of our game today I've just watched a lunch time sports program here in Brazil and naturally they had a fair bit to say about Flamengo and their success in the last week.

In last Saturday's final Jorge Jesus introduced his 34-year-old experienced club captain Diego into the fray for the last quarter of the game.

Diego is a hugely influence player at Flamengo, but got injured a couple of months ago and only very recently has made appearances from the subs bench.

Before he came on, they showed JJ deep in conversation with him, making lots of hand gestures. The reporter asked Diego what the manager said to him. He just laughed and replied: "I haven't got a clue! I was in my own zone, thinking about the state of the game and what I could do. The only thing I recall is when the manager gave me a kiss and told me to get us a goal!"

He did. It was his long pass that the River Plate centre backs messed up to gift Gabigol the winner.

I fancy Diego speaks for the vast majority of footballers who every week endure the same in-depth briefing when subbed in.

Brian Williams
6 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:03:07
I'm a clouded individual.
Ken Kneale
7 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:04:09
Norwich look a team with much more vim and vigour than us - if thing get tight towards seasons end they look equipped for the battle. Our characterless squad do not on showings to date. Points of some sort out of all of the next five league games and a win in the CC cup a must.
Ciarán McGlone
8 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:11:18
Awful selection. Defensive cowardly crap.
Christy Ring
10 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:12:49
I agree with Jay, our midfield will be overrun, and Davies will be working overtime, because Iwobi and Sigurdsson are OK going forward, but they can't tackle and defend, and Maddison and Tielemans could be a handful, hopefully I'm totally wrong.
Christopher Timmins
11 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:12:52
Hail Mary.
Tony Twist
13 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:16:13
C'Mon we can have these! Right the wrongs of last week with a 2-1 win.
Paul Birmingham
14 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:19:40
Well need some divine help today, I sense.

But who knows what will happen when the game starts. Let’s hope this team shows all the guts and belief that’s been missing this season, as today for sure it’s needed.

Tony Hill
15 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:24:32
To set up expansively without a proper midfield and against the form team of the premier league would be bonkers.

We're in trouble and we need to keep things tight for now. A draw will be fine, a sneaky 1-0 a massive bonus. We are injury-ravaged and we must be realistic.

Brian Williams
16 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:33:37
What line up would you have gone with Ciaran?
Ciarán McGlone
17 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:42:11
Anybody who thinks were likely to get a draw, or a win for that matter, while being camped on the edge of our box.. is bonkers.
Ciarán McGlone
18 Posted 01/12/2019 at 16:43:00
(Cue.. me eating a bag of hats)
Anthony Jones
19 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:05:14
Maybe, just maybe, the angry hate-filled atmosphere at Goodison during the Norwich game had an impact on the players?

I actually think we have played our very best matches away from home.

I wouldn't want to play in front of the Gwladys Street at 3-0 up.

Jim Marray
20 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:09:33
VAR rule in Everton's favour, liverpool fan in front of the telly?
James Hill
21 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:14:29
Good old Sam Alladyace football, this:10 men behind the ball.
Paul Smith
22 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:26:56
So its the home fans fault we are shite Anthony ?
Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:29:40
VAR stinks if Chillwell hasn’t been booked, although the time it took to make the decision makes you wonder if they were trying to find something wrong with Mina’s tackle, because it was obvious Chillwell the cheat dived.

The ref has got me worried, the space between Keane and Mina, has got me worried, and Iwobi playing out wide has also got me worried, but we look faster on the counter attack, so maybe Leicester should be worried about that!

Jay Wood

24 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:32:11
Good half! At last some bite and fight about the team.

Pleased to see the formation is primarily 5-4-1, rather than 3-5-1-1 as Silva has played before with a back 3. It's forcing Leicester to go wide and around us where we have overloads in our favour. When they try to go down the middle, they are getting swallowed up.

Sidibe is having his best game in an Everton shirt, both in defence and attack.

Never, ever a pen. Poor from Holgate to let the ball get away from him following Mina's excellent blocking tackle, but Mason never touched the lad.

Anyone else having to endure the always biased co-commentary of the awful Jim Beglin? Of course, he saw it as a clear pen. And even when the video evidence showed no contact, he was still claiming there doesn't have to be contact to give a pen. Tit!

Absolutely cracking move, from Dein's throw-in and passes across the park, to Sidibe's cross, DCL's movement in leaving space behind for Richie's stonking headed finish.

Just a word of caution: Everton is absolutely rock bottom on the season's 2nd half scorelines, very rarely scoring in the 2nd half.

Three points today would be a HUGE lift going forward into a congested December.

Ciarán McGlone
25 Posted 01/12/2019 at 17:36:53
Jay... on behalf of the Irish nation I apologise for Jim Beglin and Bono.

Good half enjoyable, gor a change.

Simon Dalzell
26 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:02:25
Holgate a complete liability. Never was, and never will be good enough. The fact that he gets a game speaks volumes.
How on earth is this ' manager' still here ?
Bill Fairfield
27 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:10:18
Oh no the Morgan fella's on nightmare
Steve Ferns
28 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:24:48
Gutted. We didn’t deserve that.
Ciarán McGlone
30 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:27:31
Such a poor second half..

Midfield gaps all too obvious with that formation...and the anonymous players didnt help.

Tony Hill
31 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:28:06
We just have no luck ever. That said, Davies was hopeless for both goals. We're obviously in dire trouble.
Rick Tarleton
32 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:29:06
When Davies ran out of energy, the midfield was theirs, the decision was, like the Brighton one, very hard to take. Feel like weeping.
John Reynolds
33 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:29:54
Napoleon liked lucky generals. He’d have shot Marco a year ago at Anfield.

Conceding an offside goal in the 94th minute of a 93 minute game and then having it overturned by VAR could surely only happen to Everton.

Ernie Baywood
34 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:30:28
Very soft from Davies in midfield for the winner. We went from no danger to serious trouble with one poor decision. Where was the rest of our midfield?

And I wouldn't mind seeing that goal again. He started in an offside position and the point they freeze framed it looked very generous to Leicester. ie it was after the ball was played.

Really thought Kean had scored.

Tom Roberts
35 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:31:14
Tom Davies responsible for both goals 100%. Why not sack him instead of Silva? He will never be good enough for Everton.
Danny Baily
36 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:31:16
Devastating. Was coming though.

Just not good enough all round.

Mike Kehoe
37 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:31:56
Played well to say missing so many key midfielders. I don’t think he will be sacked yet. Always a joy to hear the impartial Carragher’s point of view.
Jim Bennings
38 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:33:16
Embarrassing again to concede two goals when Leicester for 65 minutes were never even in the game hardly as a threat.

Our midfield is pathetic, Sigurdsson and Davies have the legs of arl’ grannies while Iwobi seems to be all fart and no shit in front of goal.

The least said of our anonymous centre forward the better.

I’m struggling to see quite how he hell we are accumulating enough points this season to stay in the league.

Dave Williams
39 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:34:35
I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach- completely gutted. Both goals a result of Tom giving away possession. Need to gather my thoughts about this before further comment.
Gordon Crawford
40 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:35:10
Too many passengers in this team. Davies kept giving the ball away and Siggy did nothing. Iwobi looked decent at times and Keen when he came on did more than DCL.
But as someone said “this team have no backbone”.
Manager needs to go and so does his coaching team and BK.
Wednesday night is going to be a murder picture
Rick Tarleton
41 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:35:16
Bernard ought not to be a substitute at that stage of the game. It had to be an extra defender. Yet again we fail to see a game out.
Tony Hill
42 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:35:32
We run out of fitness after an hour or so. It costs us time and again and says a lot about our conditioning.
Simon Smith
43 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:35:59
Soul destroying. No other words can describe it. Made worse by that prick RS commentator. He loves it.
Jim Bennings
44 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:36:20
I can take no consolation in playing well.

We have been disastrous this season and playing well is not enough now, points, wins, goals, clean sheets are all that matter.

That today was another game that we have simply thrown down the pan, our inability at 1-0 to kill a underperforming Leicester off.

How on Gods earth have we not rectified since Lukaku left more than two years ago that lack of a focal point in attack?

Phillip Warrington
45 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:36:53
Gutted — the footballing gods are against Everton.

But why wait so long to change Calvert-Lewin? I like him but he wasn't at the races today. Rodgers sees the same with his team and makes the change early. That player went on to change the game, unlike Silva who makes changes with 10 minutes to go.

But the VAR bullshit decision will save Silva because the loss will be all about that.

Craig Walker
46 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:37:38
Bracing myself for RS winning the league and Leeds replacing us. Boris as PM as well. Never felt so down about a forthcoming year. Things are bleak. I knew today that if it got to 1-1 then we’d lose. Not one player is good enough off that evidence. We’re gonna get a pasting on Wed night. Has the gap been wider? Depressing!
Grant Rorrison
47 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:37:41
Not the worst result in the world, we might have got something. :)
Craig Mills
48 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:37:44
We’re averaging 1 goal a game and 1 point a game. Relegation form all day long
Ian Bennett
49 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:38:16
Carragher's snide comment.
Ralph Basnett
50 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:38:51
I wasn’t going to post as cannot be arsed but what the hell.

Davies knackered because he had to do all Sigurdsson running, he shouldn’t have been on the pitch and then to bring Schneiderlin on FFS!!!!

The team is shot, we will be slaughtered on Wednesday and Silva will still be in the job

Raymond Fox
51 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:39:20
Its unbelievable how many kicks in the teeth we get, last minute again.
I'm beginning to think the club is truly cursed.
Jim Bennings
52 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:40:11


Where are enough wins coming from to stay up?

We have a serious inability to grind out wins and keep clean sheets whilst our goal scoring is virtually nonexistent let’s be true about it.

I’m concerned that this season will be the worst in any Evertonian’s living memory.

John Audsley
53 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:40:38
Sigurdsson as captain is an embarrassment. The man never speaks and bar the West Ham goal has done nothing all season. We are in a very bad situation people and it wont change under Silva sadly.

The man looks like he is waiting for the axe, it will happen after the shite game I'm sure as this team wont get close to them on the pitch.

We are rotten inside and outside the first 11, new ideas are needed asap or its bottom 3.

Cristobal Aguirre
54 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:41:02
He left Davies on the pitch!!! He is definitely the most stupid manager worldwide!!. Lets continue with him because we are a family and no a football club. With Silva we will become the most patetic club in world history! Bravo Kenwright!! Bravo Moshiri!!!
Jay Wood

55 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:41:10
Whatever else you can say about Silva, on his shift at Everton, he isn't a lucky manager. Napoleon would have replaced him with another general by now!

And sorry to do it, because they both had decent games, but two young players were culpable for their two goals.

Mason Holgate looks across and sees Jamie Vardy behind and wide of him before the cross came in and does nothing to adjust his position and get closer to the forward to either cut out the cross, or at least make it more difficult for him to score.

Tom Davies played a loose pass high up the pitch exposing us to Leicester's quick running forwards for the winner.

Much improved in some aspects. Sidibe our MoTM for me (although did his 'injury' after 90 minutes help extend the game to allow them the winner?). But it matters not a jot if we continue to lose games. The table makes for very stark reading.

Kean showed something when he came on. His side netting shot was evidence of quick thinking and awareness.

Oh! And anyone else think, if fit, Digne needs dropping and Baines needs to come in? The Frenchman was poor again today, as he has been all season.

Mat McConville
56 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:42:30
We are a team full of immobility. When you have no movement and pace, you don't create and you're second to balls.

It's probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I include Digne in that bracket. He doesn't have the pace to be a top fullback. Neither in defence or attack.

Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin – not good enough. We need a clear out. We need legs and movement. The nail in his coffin is that Kean looks a bright spark and he won't give him ample game time.

Gerry Ring
57 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:43:32
Some great performances, particularly Sidibe. His “injury” looked like very innocuous but his exit probably cost us dearly. I thought Davies should have been replaced around the 70th minute, he looked totally fatigued.

As for Richarlison, great goal but for god sake would somebody talk to him about continually falling over!!!!

Frank Sheppard
58 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:44:34
The result was expected; in fact, it was a closer loss than we all expected.

What is actually sickening is that Silva was our manager today.

Dave Williams
59 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:47:23
Jay #55, I do! Digne has not performed well this season and Baines might just be a better bet.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:47:32
I thought Baines should have been on in midfield, Jay, because Davies and Sigurdsson were shattered, but I thought we lacked professionalism and we also lacked a bit more quality when it really counted.

Danny Broderick
61 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:49:44
We are cursed.

I have no confidence in our ability to defend. Sigurdsson should have brought their midfielder down once it was clear that Davies had left a hole.

Could Holgate have done better once he was goalside of Ineacho? Maybe a bit harsh...

In any case, it just feels like we are doomed...

George Cumiskey
62 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:50:00
Sigurdsson was invisible again. How the hell does he keep getting picked? And captain as well... unbelievable!!!
Gordon Crawford
63 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:50:45
2nd worst scenario in our history could happen this season, Darkside win the league and we get relegated, it really is that bad.

Oh and the first scenario would be us going out of business.

Jay Wood

64 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:51:02
Tony @ 60. I also thought Baines could have done a job in midfield, maybe even from the off, never mind as a sub.
Paul Johnson
65 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:51:58
I am done.
I am done with Sky and the gobshites who work for them.
I am done with VAR.
I am done with a chairman who hasn't got a fucking clue.
I am done with overpaid crying bastards.
I am done with screaming at the telly and my kids looking at me and laughing.
I am done with arguing with fellow Blues about the shite we are being served up.

They can all just fuck off. The game and our club fucking stink.
Brian Wilkinson
66 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:51:59
It was sickening, Frank, but we certainly gave it a go today. I felt for them today. I hate Everton losing, hate no fight in the team, but the effort was certainly there today.
Derek Taylor
67 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:52:15
To think I saw Vardy playing for Stocksbridge Steels about 7 years ago and he was by no measure the best striker on view!

ps: I think Steve Walsh spotted him when he was at Fleetwood!

Craig Walker
68 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:52:16
I just don't see it with Tom Davies. I'm not picking him out but he offers nothing. Not creative. Not quick. Not rough. We have so many players that are passengers. Oh for a Reid or a Gray. We are slow. Laboured.

We don't shoot. We pick the wrong option. We retreat. Did anyone think at 1-1 that we would hold on? I was just waiting for Leicester to score. Keane, Mina and Holgate are some of the worst centre-halves I can remember at the club.

Andy Crooks
69 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:53:12
I thought this would be the way of it. Improved performance and truly awful luck. There is fear around the team. We stink of relegation. Shot of confidence, plagued by injury, every decision against us.

There are not three worse teams than us in the Premier League. I would not back us right now to beat any team in the league.

Silva is done. He has been very unlucky but he will, given the chance, relegate us. He should not be in charge on Wednesday.

Bill Gienapp
70 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:53:34
Oof - cruel, cruel stuff. Good thing I'm coming down with a cold, as it took the edge off - otherwise I might have put my fist through a window or something.

Definitely deserved at least a point for that performance, but so it goes. Contrary to what some on here say, I don't think the players are gutless/heartless, but I do think the mental fortitude is lacking.

John Audsley
71 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:54:17
Sigurdsson as captain is an embarrassment. The man never speaks and – bar the West Ham goal – he has done nothing all season. We are in a very bad situation people and it won't change under Silva sadly.

The man looks like he is waiting for the axe, it will happen after the Liverpool game I'm sure as this team won't get close to them on the pitch.

We are rotten inside and outside the first 11, new ideas are needed asap or it's bottom 3.

Cristobal Aguirre
72 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:54:37
It is insane for the club to continue working under Silva. It is simply not possible. We need to decompress the environment. It is urgent!
Ian Wells
73 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:54:59
I agree with Dave Williams (@39). Davies gives the ball away too easy. It's as if Everton players, especially the youngsters Davies and Holgate, think they've already made it. They don't read the game, nor does Keane – another liability.

Sigurdsson... well, his days are numbered. Digne needs dropping and Calvert-Lewin – well, no support but poor handling overall.

Everton just don't have the class of players to stay up really. They can't play calm and steady, no backbone, no-one leading – it's a shambles. God help us against Liverpool!

Jerome Shields
74 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:55:46
Davies did lose the ball twice, the first after a no-man's land kick out by Pickford, the second was a pass in the final third, which is in line with Silva's stats on pass completion in the final third, since he started.

On both occasions, Leicester waltzed up half of the pitch unchallenged with defenders unable to defend on the turn, as they have since Silva started.

These are the two main reasons Everton are getting these type of results. Nothing has changed or will change.

It's just lack of coaching and an inability to recognise these flaws. There are numerous examples throughout Silva's tenure, all never addressed.

Kean really looks like a forward, why he is not playing is beyond me. It's such a rare thing to see in an Everton side. A goal would really help him but Everton's pass completion in the final third is still woeful, as it has been throughout Silva's tenure. Again, lack of coaching throughout Silva's tenure.

Silva's attempt to shut up shop totally failed. His substitutions are always reactive rather than proactive.

Jer Kiernan
75 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:56:37
Ciaran @25

Bono he is not Irish but is as stated by him a "European" hence being such a fanboy of the EU who permit him and most bill/millionaires to pay 0% tax on his income. ;)

Beglin is a national disgrace but can't hold a candle to (spit in your daughter's face) Carragher.

If Bono played football, there would only be ONE universally despised Club where he would fit in.

On the game, I'm not surprised by the result. Leicester were shite first half, we took a lead and not surprisingly did not know how to manage the game. VAR was correct: it was a goal, nothing unlucky about it.

We should have had a new manager in place by now.

John Raftery
76 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:57:37
Once we reached the final three minutes, why did we not get hold of the ball, take it up to the corner flag, and kill the game? It was really naive to have so many players forward and concede possession so sloppily. It again revealed the lack of leadership among the team.
John P McFarlane
77 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:57:50
We know we lack quality in crucial areas of the pitch, but it's so maddening to see the majority of the players put in a proper shift at a very tough venue, when they haven't been able to do the same against the lesser lights of the Premier League.

Gutted for those players, including Davies and Holgate, who tried hard to earn a point or three, but quality counts and the Foxes' strikers as usual produced the goods when it was needed most.

We didn't look anywhere near a relegation team, but the result is a proper kick in the teeth and, whether we like it or not, we are in for a hell of fight to retain our Premier League status. Injuries to key players aren't helping but silly errors and a lack of discipline at important stages of matches still rear their ugly head, even when we witness a decent performance.

Need to buy some experience in the window, and hope we can put some points on the board between now and January – it's horrible being a Blue sometimes.

Dave Williams
78 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:59:06
I lost count of the number of times we were left trying to tackle from behind. Were we playing too high a line bearing in mind the quick, clever midfield players they had?
Christy Ring
79 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:59:18
Sick to say the least, we had chances to double our lead, but yet again couldn't finish teams off.

Two bad goals to give away and our midfield totally lacking. Davies made a couple of mistakes, but he was totally knackered, on his own in midfield.

I hope Sidibe is okay for Wednesday night.

Another loss; even though we played better, I still think Silva has to go.

Derek Taylor
80 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:59:18
Gordon @ 63. The last time we won back our top division place, the other lot got relegated. I remember a relative going round to sympathise with his red neighbour. I'm sure that won't happen if the boot is on the other foot!
Ciarán McGlone
81 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:59:30
No one seems to have mentioned it – but Mina going down like he had been shot was the most embarrassing thing I've seen from an Evertonian player in a while.

Truly disgraceful. Him and Richarlison should start a drama club.

Paul Tran
82 Posted 01/12/2019 at 18:59:38
It takes a lot of physical and mental energy to play with that level of discipline. Tom ran out of gas. Who was the alternative? A rusty Baines?

Biggest issue for me was that we were 1-0 up and missed chances.

Can't put games to bed, can't hold out for a draw. Not good, is it?

Michael Lynch
83 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:02:16
It's all very well to say we didn't look like a relegation team but did Norwich today or last week at Goodison? Did West Ham yesterday at Chelsea? So who does look like a relegation team? Only Watford at the moment? We've got a run of games coming up that will drop us into the bottom three and it's always tough to pull yourself out of that when you start the New Year in the shit.

Actually, I think we look exactly like a relegation team. Soft centered, woeful at game management, unlucky at crucial times, unable to score more than one a game, incapable of not making at least one massive mistake in every game, with a manager who looks like he's struggling, a massive injury problem, and a squad that looks like it really doesn't believe any more.

That looks like, smells like, sounds like a relegation team to me.

Danny Baily
84 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:02:43
Paul @82, agreed. When we missed those chances early in the second half, my heart sank and the writing was on the wall.

Some time in the wilderness beckons for Everton.

Derek Taylor
85 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:03:06
Paul @82: I think the same malaise affects one or two of the gee-gees we chatted about on the forum!
Gordon Crawford
86 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:03:38
They can't score if the ball is in the stands or in our possession, we did neither.

Derek, you are probably right, pal, that team have everything going for them right now, makes me sick.

David Dumphy
87 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:03:56
Kenwrights face at the end, wow says it all. 20 years. Greedy cunt.
Brian Harrison
88 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:05:27
Disappointing losing with nearly the last kick of the game, but Leicester were much the better side for most of the game. I thought the reason we got rid of Allardyce was because of his negative approach. We are the team that fielded 2 centre backs costing over £40 million a midfielder who cost £45 million and finished with 2 strikers who cost £75 million. Yet it was Leicester who looked like they were the team with expensive players, their movement was good and got through our defense a few times in the 2nd half and could have scored more.

You have to feel for Silva football is a cruel game, but he has had long enough to have established a decent side considering the money he has spent. But, in the blame stakes, he is not alone: Brands and Moshiri must also take responsibility in this sorry tale. And unless they get the next appointment right we may end up playing second-tier football for the first time in over 60 years.

John P McFarlane
89 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:06:15
Michael, I did qualify that statement with whether we like it or not, we are in for a hell of fight to retain our Premier League status.
Paul Tran
90 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:06:32
Yes, Derek, I did have shares in True North. He loved everything about racing except the racing bit! I binned him and we should be doing some binning too.
Barry Jones
91 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:07:07
Dominic Calvert-Lewin must be the wimpiest forward in the league. He loses every battle, or doesn't even compete. Why on earth hasn't Moise Kean been given a decent run?

Richarlison spends most of the game on the ground, holding his head. Sigurdsson shouldn't be selected. Iwobi was playing better than most, with energy, and was taken off. Davies should have been subbed earlier.

These are all the choices of Silva. He gets it wrong each week, from start to end.

Bill Fairfield
92 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:08:27
The nightmare continues... seems like we will never wake up.
Michael Lynch
93 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:09:15
Yes John, sorry I did see that afterwards. But the comment wasn't directly aimed at just you as other people have said it too. Apologies though.

Michael Kenrick
94 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:11:54
Part of me thought, naively as it turned out, that the great opening goal would lead to a much needed and well-earned win. But we absolutely needed that second goal that we seemed hell-bent on not scoring, such was the profligacy with poor crosses, poor play, poor positioning, poor anticipation, poor execution, poor finishing... you name it.

Then, for us to not once but twice give up soft balls in the centre-circle and watch them gallop off to the races... just criminally inept, despite what people will no doubt call a much better display that has earned Silva a reprieve...? Why??? Only to prolong our pain.

ps: Meaningless question: Did Bernard actually come on as sub? He was stripped on the sideline... Seems the answer is no. Can anyone confirm?
Rob Marsh
95 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:12:36
Michael Lynch # 83

Of all the teams in the history of the Premier League who have started the New Year in the bottom three, only three of them have managed to save themselves.

If our club has any balls (no pun intended) it will need to start using them.

John Keating
96 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:14:44
Standard of football was woeful and equal to anything produced by Allardyce. However, the only thing that mattered was getting a result.

We were tight and compact first half and did well to nullify Vardy et al. For whatever reason we opened ourselves up halfway through the second half. If it was tiredness with some players then the question has to be why? Can't we last 90 minutes once a week?

Calvert-Lewin had been running his balls off but still seemed up for it; could we not have brought Kean on to play with Calvert-Lewin and give Leicester something to think about?

Our substitutions seemed to give them more room and space.I just wish our substitutions could sometimes be proactive rather than reactive.

I think if we try those tactics on Wednesday, we will not be leaving the house for a very long time. I think it is now time for everyone from management to supporters to finally admit that we are deep in the shit and already involved with a relegation issue. There are not 3 teams worse than us!

If I were Silva, I would check if there are flights from John Lennon Airport to Lisbon on Thursday.

Joe McMahon
98 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:15:42
I want to see Kean start over Calvert-Lewin from now on. We are having the luck of a team that will be relegated. Somehow we have to find a forward or striker who can smash a ball. 14 league goals in over 80 appearances says Calvert-Lewin isn't that person.
Mal van Schaick
99 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:16:03
I respect the effort and disappointed we lost. I don't think silva deserves to be sacked on that performance. We are just outside the relegation zone.

Unfortunately, we haven't got the quality players of teams we are about to play in future fixtures. It's a conundrum stick or twist?

Karl Meighan
100 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:17:48
We concede more goals in the 90th minute than them over the park score. Just shows how weak this Club is; regardless if it was a better performance we got beat and gained nothing.

Good sides play shit and win, we play well and lose. Poor team and the Premier League table does not lie. If they don't lose heavily in midweek, I will be amazed. The sacking will come — like Silva's subs — too fuckin' late.

Barry Jones
101 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:19:02
Mal, Silva doesn't deserve to be sacked on that performance — he deserves to be sacked on the collective of every performance he has been in charge of, and the sooner the better.
Tony Abrahams
102 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:20:02
My telly froze, but have to agree with John @76, and couldn't believe the way we were set up for Leicester's first goal. With Sidibe, so far up the pitch, then surely Iwobi, should have been closer to Davies in the middle of the park?

It's alright looking to get up the pitch, but maybe it was a lack of confidence that stopped us protecting the lead a lot better than we did. When you're down you get punished, so let's see if we can get off the floor for Wednesday night.

Normally if you concede a last-minute winner away to second in the league, people might say hard lines, but with the position that we are in, then bad luck doesn't come into it, especially when he can still find room for Schneiderlin at the end.

Andrew Keatley
103 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:20:31
Rob (95) - I think you must mean bottom on New Year's Day...
Barry Jones
105 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:21:13
Tony, it wasn't your telly that froze, it was the entire Everton team.
Michael Lynch
106 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:22:04
I think the question isn't whether Silva deserves to be sacked on that performance, it's whether he deserves to keep his job on that performance.

Personally, my answer is No. It might have been one of our least sluggish performances, but the game management was appalling, and Silva was out-thought by the Leicester manager.

So I don't see that as a job-saving performance.

Kevin Molloy
107 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:22:58
The biggest problem we have now is a fool at the top... Unlike a lot on here, I think Kenwright is shrewd, and would make an appointment that would keep us up. It is, though, unforgiveable that he waits 20 years for his ideal owner, only for it to turn out to be somebody who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

I suppose that was the attraction — who else would be prepared to give Bill millions and still let him float around the boardroom???

Well, his greed for profit on his stake may well now get us relegated. I have no confidence whatsoever that common sense will emerge from Farhad in the next few weeks, and we are in dire straits.

Liam Reilly
108 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:23:58
I can't understand how Davies was left on that pitch. He gave the ball away for both goals.

Why not put Baines in that role... It's clear Davies is Championship standard at best.

Jerome Shields
109 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:25:55
You can only flog a dead horse for so long and Silva has flogged it to the moon and back. The same old weaknesses keep repeatedly come up in his Everton sides.

Granted Everton have had additional recurring underlying problems for 20 years. Silva does not have the ability to identify where the weakness are, never mind being able to sort them out.

His situation is that he is falling below minimum planned expectations, and the bar was set so low it was never envisaged that he would not be able to achieve.

What a way to run a Club! The Board and Management deserve the headache they are now facing.

David Dumphy
110 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:26:02
Fucking Kenwright. He's the problem: 20 years, no trophies — longest chairman without a trophy.
Mike Oates
111 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:30:14
I don't like saying it but our “Academy Products” of Davies, Holgate, and Calvert-Lewin (even though last 2 bought in at 17/18) just aren't good enough at all.

Holgate's touch is woeful, his positioning is woeful. Davies must be the worst passer of a ball in the Premiership and Calvert-Lewin just hasn't got what it takes to be a regular goal scorer.

Add on Dowell struggling to get a game at Derby, Broadhead can't get a game at Burton Albion, Hornby in Belgium. There is only Jonjoe Kenny doing well. So where is any proof that we are developing youngsters at all?

Unsworth May win the PL2 2 years out of 3 but where are the players we keep getting promised. I don't see the likes of Feeney, Gibson, Adreniran, Markelo being touted anymore as potential 1st teamers.

The next kid on the block is Anthony Gordon but, if you watched him against League One Fleetwood in midweek, he never got a sniff.

Now with injuries everywhere, you need your youngsters and I'm afraid ours are not just good enough. And finally neither is Silva! Brave attempt today but he's out of his depth.

Tony Abrahams
112 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:30:52
Good one, Barry, but I won't be freezing on Wednesday night because I won't be fucking watching it.

I advocated playing with a back three today, but agree with John @97, because I'm not sure we can suffocate Liverpool – possibly because we never had enough speed in the midfield to keep Leicester on the back foot for long enough today. And I'm sure it will be more intense at Anfield.

Paul Jeronovich
113 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:31:06
I've now entered the phase of telling myself I won't let Everton ruin my weekends anymore but, no matter what crap I put on the TV or how much I drink, they still creep into my thoughts...

Fuck off!!!!

Jer Kiernan
114 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:31:59
I for one think we need to act before Wednesday, Put Unsworth or Ferguson in temporary charge and try to get rid of the stink in the place. We are heading for an embarrassing defeat otherwise.

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Surely at this stage we are better without him on Wednesday?

Silva Out Now!!!

Christy Ring
115 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:32:14
Sigurdsson was a total waste of space in midfield. Why didn't he foul their midfielder in the build up to the equaliser? I said before the game, he can't tackle, can't defend and shouldn't be in the team Wednesday night.

We're struggling in midfield, with the injuries to Gomes and Gbamin, and I couldn't understand why Beni Baningime was allowed to play for U23s in midweek, where he was injured. Total mismanagement by Silva.

Jim Bennings
116 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:32:26
At the end of the day it’s December and we are as follows..


Won 4 from 14.

Lost 8 from 14.

14 goals scored.

22 goals conceded.

14 points from 14 matches.

Matches against Aston Villa, Sheffield United, Burnley, Bournemouth, Norwich, Brighton that we have lost in that spell.

Is that anywhere near good enough?

Richard Nelson
117 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:32:57
Did Tranmere win?
Rick Tarleton
118 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:33:02
Davies played well for most of the game, he was the only one running in a static midfield. Once he was "fatigued" to quote an earler correspondent, a good manager would have subbed him.

The back three were always at risk from Barnes and Vardy, but the sheer cruelty of losing in that way, nearly as cruel as last year at Anfield, is what really hurts.

I don't want to do my usual and start blaming individual players, but do feel that Bernard coming on when you're seeing out a game is not exactly football nous.

Not looking forward to the derby game, perhaps this time VAR and refereeing decisions will go our way. Can't see it going our way, but hope it does.

Carragher ought not to be allowed to commentate on our games, he finds objectivity impossible. Neville manages to praise Man City and Liverpool, but just as Phil Thompson is never allowed to watch Everton as his game on the Jeff Stelling football show, nor ought Carragher be allowed to commentate and rejoice when Everton lose or when a decision goes against Everton.

Gerry Ring
119 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:33:16
We are a team with a shocking scoring record. We pay £30million for a striker but we don't bloody play him... and when we did, we played him out of position!!!!

For me that's enough of a reason to get rid of Silva. Totally clueless. Jim Gavin anyone? (Only some will get it.)

Joe McMahon
120 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:34:22
David @110,

You are talking about a Chairman who had Moyes on £4 million a year the (last few seasons), even though he never won at Anfield in 11 fucking years.

The club is a disgrace — has been for 30 years. If we go down, it's gonna be a struggle that could kill us off. A Champoinship team, high wages, and in blue shed / cesspit / dump of a stadium.

Dave Ganley
121 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:37:07
So, we lose, again, and we're asked the question: "Is that enough for Silva to save his job?" FFS — you are having a laugh!

Is there no expectation of this club anymore? Tell you what, we lose by less than 2 goals against Liverpool and show some jolly good guys and you get an extension to your contract, Marco... how about that!

Is that the limit to some people's expectation, that we show a bit of fight but lose it's okay? The mind boggles.

John G Davies
122 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:37:38

Davies was very poor today, mate. He had a hand in both their goals and gave the ball away time after time.

Derek Knox
123 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:38:18
I thought our performance was a lot better than we have been subjected to recently, but alas still below par. I saw the omission of Schneiderlin as a plus, and so it proved to be.

Why is it when we have a lead, we fail to increase it? Also, I thought Holgate was pretty poor today, as was Iwobi, the rest were okay in parts although Sigurdsson as Captain for the day could have led better.

Again I couldn't believe either his substitutions or the reasons behind them, Moise Kean yes, not before time but Schneiderlin? I knew then that we would get beaten, he adds nothing to the side whatsoever.

I will be surprised if Silva is still in a job after tomorrow, and dread to think of what will happen on Wednesday.

Trevor Peers
124 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:39:23
I'm wondering if Moshiri will sack Silva or just feel sorry for his tiny tears, what a way to run a football club. It's a results-based business and Silva is a serial loser, yet he keeps his job while others are being sacked after a few months. It's not just today's result it's the games we should've won this season but lost that condemn Silva to oblivion.

The longer we delay this decision, the closer relegation becomes a reality. We did okay against Leicester scored a goal then tried to contain them without ever really troubling them again, then fell apart for the usual last-minute sucker punch – a Silva trademark.

The fact is we lost again, and will keep on doing so until the penny drops. Act tonight, Moshiri, appoint a caretaker and get it sorted before the Chelsea game.

Jay Harris
125 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:39:32
I know we had injuries but playing 3 at the back instead of reinforcing midfield was suicide to begin with. Thankfully we scored first and the players put a lot into the first half but you could see by 60 minutes that Davies, Iwobi and Richarlison were flagging.

So our genius manager takes Calvert-Lewin off, who still had plenty of running in him and kept their defence occupied, and left Tom Davies on, who was dying on his feet.

This group of players have what it takes — they just need to be set up and organized properly.

Tony Abrahams
126 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:40:08
I would also add to Rick@118, that you can tell Rodgers has spent time at Liverpool because his team appealed for absolutely everything.
Pat Kelly
127 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:41:27
No sympathy for Silva. Kean should've started, at least the second half. Playing Calvert-Lewin leads to nothing.
Jim Bennings
128 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:41:53

You could actually argue in many ways that Everton deserve to go down, not just for the dross served up on the pitch but for the amateurish way the club is run.

What do we offer to the Premier League really?

We never mount a title challenge (Leicester).

We have had one, yes ONE top four finish in 30 years.

We never win a derby match.

We never win an away game at one of the top teams.

We play the same dreary drab football every week, every season now – regardless of what players or manager we have.

West Ham (just an example) have been under immense pressure and Pellegrini a game away from the sack yet they go and win at Chelsea, can anybody ever imagine us pulling off a result like that?

Nothing changes at this club, same monotonous results, shit away every season, poor goals return every season.

Eventually, like it did with Aston Villa, relegation will catch up with this club.

I said about two months ago on here, we are the modern-day Coventry City as they were from the '70s to 2001.

We are just up but nobody ever notices us because we never do anything.

Pat Kelly
129 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:42:56
Gerry, Gavisgon.
Dave Abrahams
130 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:43:01
Leicester were the better team but, if we had held on to get the draw, I think a lot of these posts would have a different outcome.

Sidibe had a good game but thought he could have done better with some of his crosses, in acres of space three or four times, I thought he could have found his team mates better than he did or even tried a shot instead of passing.

Davies, it was obvious he was knackered around the 70-minute mark so should have been taken off, Sigurdsson did little to help him. Baines, even after a long lay off would have had the experience to hold the ball up and pick his passes better.

Silva looked distraught at the end and felt hard done by, I think at a stretch him and his team deserved a draw on the day and it was hard, for me anyway, not to feel sorry for him, even if I doubt he is the man to manage Everton in the long run.

A draw today would have given the team and us fans something to build on. That last goal, so preventable, was a real kick in the plums.

Jerome Shields
131 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:44:06
Kean really looks like a forward and we all haven't seen one for some time at Everton.

The three problems he has is that Silva never has anyone supporting him, Everton pass completion in the final third is so poor he is not going to get the ball played to him, and Silva does not play him.

Some team is going to get a bargain down the line.

Peter Mills
132 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:46:43
Gutted at the result, particularly for those who travelled and gave great support. I thought we deserved a point, but what I think counts for nothing, and we were struggling for the last 20 minutes.

The team was set up well for the task, whether by design or necessity due to injuries. We almost earned a point.

But I've been fuming since the final whistle about one thing, which Jay #4 spoke of. What on earth was Silva doing with the Bernard substitution?

At a time when our manager had the chance to be instructing his midfield and defence to re-group, focus and ensure we held on to what we had for 2 minutes, Silva spent a full minute lecturing a substitute who was only ever going to be peripheral. That cameo summed up Marco Silva.

Derek Taylor
133 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:46:47
I hear that Moshiri sat this one out in his home in Monaco. He no doubt saw the game and would have no stomach for a sacking by email on that much-improved performance.

I'm no fan of Silva's but I'd get the pre-Xmas fixtures out of the way before getting a new man in. Frankly, I'd rather paddle on with the present unfortunate than have Ferguson in charge — however temporally.

Paul Hewitt
134 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:49:13
Wouldn't it be funny if the next manager starts Kean and he banged the goals in? It would be Silva's own fault.
Anthony Murphy
135 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:50:48
Dave Ganley is absolutely right. How many teams have been relegated but have shown fighting spirit? Too many to mention.

Showing you are up for the fight and working hard is the least we should expect. We shouldn't be seeing today as a positive just because we ‘showed up'.

Dave Williams
136 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:51:22
Iwobi and Kean must start from now on – and play Baningime if fit.

Sigurdsson should be nowhere near the team. Bernard is now fit for the Liverpool game and Baines should replace Digne.

We were unlucky but why did we not close the game out?

I guess that will be enough to save his job but whatever became of the club motto? Nothing but the best is good enough – bit of a joke really... but I'm not laughing.

Colin Glassar
137 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:52:56
Despite a bit more cohesion, fight and effort, this is still a fragile, piss-poor team with a manager who appears lost in translation.

I don't want to be changing manager every season but Marco is taking us nowhere, fast.

Neil Carter
138 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:53:16
Bye. Go. Silva. Whining.
John Reynolds
139 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:54:09
Rob #95 “Michael, of all the teams in the history of the Premier League who have started the New Year in the bottom three, only three of them have managed to save themselves.”

That's not quite accurate. Lots of teams have escaped from the bottom 3 after 1 January. Only 3 have survived after being the actual bottom club.

West Brom years ago.
Sunderland under Poyet in 2014.
Leicester in 2015 with Nigel Pearson. They won the league next season when Ranieri took over.

Mike Doyle
140 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:54:49
As we've already had the vague 'vote of confidence' statement from Brands last week, any thoughts on what distraction piece will be rolled out tomorrow...

For example:

A) “We are all behind the manager and go to Anfield with confidence” — from Seamus Coleman;

B) U18s & U23s in yet another Goodison sleep out to raise £50 for EitC — from Little Ms Dynamite;

C) 1-year contract for Victor Anichebe following a surprise phone call from Bill (because he's part of the Everton Family).

Answers on a postcard please.

Neil Carter
141 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:56:19
The final nail has been in his coffin for a while but someone keeps letting him out. Please do the right thing for once.
Jim Wilson
142 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:57:23
All as expected and predicted. What makes it worse is that the so-called improved performance will make Silva think he should play 5 at the back again. We then have a derby humiliation to look forward to and Silva is still not sacked.

This is all beyond sad, ridiculous, mad. It is unforgivable. And you trust these clowns with a ground move? If you do, you are stark raving mad!

Paul Smith
143 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:57:31
Keep Silva and we will be in the relegation places at Christmas. Yes, I felt sorry for him, even Kenwright ffs but WE WILL DROP!!

Taking Iwobi off instead of Davies and then bringing on Bernard was weird, to say the least, and we have all the hallmarks of a relegation certainty; change it now!

Sometimes, I think some on here have subconsciously accepted Championship football.

Kase Chow
144 Posted 01/12/2019 at 19:57:55
How can you blame VAR for the defeat? What a daft headline.

It was lack of being clinical, poor decisions and bad defending.

Shane Corcoran
145 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:03:40
Gerry, #119, I don't think I could take Gavin's post-match interviews.

Davie Fitz on the other hand...

Pat Kelly
147 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:05:30
Howe do we get out of this? Watch this space...
Paul A Smith
148 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:06:53
Jim Bennings, it's good to read a post from outside the box and you are right in my opinion.

We deserve nothing. As you say, no matter who the manager is its the same old story but do we hound the club about that? No, we just go through the cycle again and again.

I argued before the Palace game that 8th was dreamland and took the stick for it. I knew it was pointless trying to explain why because it should be plain obvious.

This is one average set of players and the ones who whinged to get Davies in the team are either moaning he's in the team now or defending him for being tired. What a load of shit, from crying there is no energy to defending his energy or crying he is playing after crying that he should be...

They say Silva can't change tactics; he did today and like so many games we looked fine for most of it but no players of anything dynamic to make a difference.

It's been anything to jump on the manager time after time and no doubt he does have his faults but this squad will show the next manager's faults because his options for a different system are limited.

Counter-attack is an issue for us because we are so slow. Moshiri started this reign buying half a side from the bottom half (and paying a lot for it) Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson, Williams, Gana, Bolasie, and sold to teams above us. Expecting anything but problems in that sort of business is insanity. It improved in last seasons window but we are still way off a proper foundation.

I am not bothered if Silva goes at all but I fully expect more of the same from the next manager. Hopefully Kean is the first 19-year-old striker in years to dominate Premier League backlines and run the show when we need a top performance.

Ray Jacques
149 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:08:10
This is as bad as 2017-18. That season, however, I thought we had the beating of the teams around us but, this season, I think they are either equal to or better than us – especially when it comes to game nouce and will to win. They each play as a team.

Our players are so weak mentally, this needs sorting before we can start winning by using the generally considered superior ability of our individual players to gain the advantage.

I think the malaise runs through the club from top to bottom; it will need a world-rated manager to sort it but the board are too cowardly to appoint one as they will be told some home truths and have to come out of their cushy existences.

Phil Greenough
150 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:09:29
Why are so many posters stating that we will be relegated? It's like you're relishing the angst of it all. What does it achieve? Is it that you can say "I told you so" if it transpires?

Any other supporter who visits this site must be pissing themselves at the abject negativity and stench of possible failure, that pervades this forum.

Posters are saying there aren't three teams worse than us in the league, the present league table doesn't lie, so I would beg to differ. Yes, we could be beaten in every game, but who can say that the bottom three teams won't also be beaten?

David Pearl
151 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:11:25
I thought both Davies and Iwobi played okay in small patches but largely gave the ball away and were erratic.

Iwobi much better through the middle. Okay that Silva changed formation. I had a good idea he'd go either 5-4-1 or 4-1-4-1. He never likes to leave his full-backs exposed.

Kean looked okay too when he came on but out of position a lot. Unlucky not to score; we need to see much more of him.

Terry Farrell
152 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:11:38
We deserved a point today and needed the 2nd goal. Tom Davies made a mistake but he was spent by then and had an excellent game as did most of our team.

There is no credible manager lined up so stick with what we have until then. Some of the comments on here make me despair that fellow Evertonians expect perfection and wins every week.

The team pulled together today. The Norwich game was poor. No arguments there. Why would Moyes or Howe change things?

We ain't getting top 6 or relegation either way, so either get a heavyweight game-changer or leave it until we have one on the payroll.

Paul A Smith
153 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:13:44
Phil, I agree, I don"t get that either. It shows an agenda when you hate a manager so much you don't want the situation to turn around.

I thought the players tried hard today in nervous times. They are just not good or athletic enough to dominate a midfield like Leicester.

Peter Dodds
154 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:13:46
Sick to the stomach to see that second Leicester goal go in.

Excellent first half, recognized by Sky – compact, disciplined, with an excellent goal. Then as soon as we became more open – due to an unfortunate tackle by Davies rather than a misplaced pass – Leicester take advantage. Cruel but for some reason the discipline in the first half couldn't be maintained. Fitness? The substitutions were bonkers, very poor decisions.

People are being too pessimistic about the derby. If we set up like today and can just hold our nerve better, we might get away with it. Sidibe was MotM for me: good energy and determination to get up the other end.

Richard Nelson
155 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:14:31
When Marco Silva eventually goes, let's appoint another Foreign manager.

They are brill, I love 'em…!

Jim Wilson
156 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:16:30
When your team is struggling, an astute manager strengthens his midfield with numbers; a shit manager plays 5 at the back.

And Silva could play Digne with Baines in front of him on the left (or the other way around) and Sidibe with Coleman in front of him on the right (or the other way around), making us defensively better down the wings and still quite creative...

But Silva is a million miles away from that basic thinking.

He is utter garbage.

Michael Lynch
157 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:17:07
Sigurdsson should only be used as an impact sub in my opinion. Although Iwobi is prone to giving away the ball (who the fuck isn't though in this team), he does play quick and incisive through balls. He linked up well with Sidibe today.

I think Calvert-Lewin did nothing wrong, but Richarlison seemed to have a better natural understanding with Kean, so I'd try starting them together soon.

Anyway, all of this is a bit like moving around the deckchairs on the Titanic really. We need someone who can steer us away from the icebergs and I don't think that person is Marco Silva.

Derek Knox
158 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:19:16
Pat K, @147, I've been watching that space for some time now, and nothing's happening?

Give me a clue mate?

David Pearl
159 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:19:26
This is much worse than Koeman's season. Koeman had all the back 4 out. Silva has all his defenders fit... missing some midfielders but he still has a £45 million midfielder plus much better attacking options.

I still can't believe that Baines hasn't seen a single minute of play either.

Bill Gall
160 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:20:52
There was one commentary before the game that summed up perfectly what Everton's problem is.

Prior to the start, pundit Tim Sherwood, talking about the teams stated Everton have the better players but Leicester have the better manager. I am not going to judge the Everton manager on this game as he should be judged from the beginning of the season.

One thing that does stand out is his record is no better now then when he was fired from his previous club.

I hope the board don't start to get into the mindset that Everton are too good to go down, as that way of thinking was the rallying cry from previous relegated clubs. The board should be now meeting with the knowledge that Silva is not a manager that can save them from relegation.

The problem at this time and the difficulty will be trying to find someone to take over till the end of season, as all out-of-work managers will want a longer-term manager's position. So who do they look for?

There are 2 other managers that have just been fired and their clubs will be looking for a manager so the board do not have a lot of time keeping their heads buried in the sand. Even finishing in the 10th or 11th position will be a loss of TV money and possible sponsors, and don't be surprised, with the Xmas holidays coming up, the support at Goodison may drop.

A team's position in the Premier League is determined by how consistent your results are. Everton's results are consistent with relegation teams' results.

Pat Kelly
161 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:22:52
Derek, the clue is in my post!
Mike Doyle
162 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:24:08
For those on TW giving Tom Davies grief for looking or being knackered by 70 mins – look at the work he got through in that time.

(Graeme Souness reckons that he'd struggle to last more than an hour in today's Premier League.)

Phil Greenough
163 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:26:29
Pat, I think Derek was only joshing with you and provided the slightest bit of humour on this thread.
Pat Kelly
164 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:27:13
In fairness, Mike, Souness is a lot older than Davies.
Derek Knox
165 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:28:15
Pat K, ah! a cunning plan Mr Bond, I didn't clock the spelling of How(e) duh! Well in, sir!

Although I wouldn't be averse, I do however think we could do better, but admittedly much preferred to any of the Usual Suspects — and definitely above Silva!

John P McFarlane
166 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:28:16
Phil #150,

There is some merit in what you say, perhaps, it's easier to accept relegation if you're one of those that keep banging on about the possibility of dropping down a divison. Maybe it's a subconcious acceptance that the club can't compete at the top end of the table anytime soon, therefore we won't have to suffer the ignomy of 'derby' days if we do go down.

The current issues are the tough league fixtures that now await us, between Wednesday and FA Cup third round day and the poor form we have displayed for most of this season. We should have been able to enter this month having built a reasonable buffer but the results we have managed so far, have been way below the expectations of even the most pessimistic person.

A growing injury list, an uncertain future of the manager, allied to a weak group of players, then it's little wonder that there's more than enough evidence to concern all of us who follow the Toffees.

I honestly can't see how, even with a change of manager, that we can alter the results of this particular group of players in a positive way, as there are so many flaws in so many important elements of the team. We don't need an exceptional manager – we need an exceptionally lucky one. Who that may be is anybody's guess – but we need to find him ASAP as it isn't Silva.

Paul A Smith
167 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:28:17
Mike 162. That has been part of my point for ages and again it's glaringly obvious. Ndidi, Tielmaans – proper athletes, fully developed, quick, strong – all attributes they have over Davies.

They waltz 90 mins and we are now concerned Davies got through a lot of running. The truth is he will lose the battle with them players 9.9 times out of 10 – like he did with Norwich's big man in the middle, who happens to be shite.

Rob Marsh
168 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:28:34
Mike # 162

Tom Davies had Sigurdsson as his partner today, Sigurdsson probably puts in less tackles than even Ginola did.

Terry Farrell
169 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:31:25
Jim, you have just made me laugh. Baines who I love but who hasn't played for how long? Increase numbers in midfield? What are you talking about?

We played well today in general for 70 minutes so you either say we were poor in the last 20 and should have changed it or you explain how the fuck we should have lined up at the start.

Jim Wilson
170 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:31:51
Phil and John McFarlane,

No – it's because some of us know we are down unless something changes, and that is a GOOD managerial appointment – FFS!

Paul A Smith
171 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:34:58
Get Howe in. We can play all the football in the world with shit players and no aggression and lose 18 a season.

He is the latest favourite apparently. My god... it is scary if that happens.

Ken Kneale
172 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:35:00
Peter Mills – astute as ever. This was harsh but Silva's inability to manage previous results turns what should simply be an unfortunate loss of points and elevates it to a really worrying situation. Those that say relegation is not a potential outcome are not in the real world.

A team unable to score in the second half of a game on a wretched run of form without true leader on or off the field can easily make up one of the three places available — we are that team. This manager is not capable of turning around such a situation.

John P McFarlane
174 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:40:02
Jim #170,

That might help, but it won't make the players any braver or inject any extra talent into them that they don't already possess.

I think there has been talk of relegation for most of Moshiri's tenure no matter which manager has occupied the hot-seat no matter which players turned out in a blue shirt.

I admit that I'm more worried about this season than any previous season and that's not just because Silva happens to be the manager.

Glenn Williams
175 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:41:13
Come on, everyone, let's sing:

To the Championship we go
To the Championship we go
Hi ho the derry-o
To the Championship we go!

Jim Wilson
176 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:42:43
John – 'we won't go down'.

I look forward to our improved performances from now on!

Mark Guglielmo
177 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:43:07
Here are some attacking third stats everyone can ignore (only stats that occurred in the attacking third).

Holgate: 2/3 pass completions
Mina: 2/6, 1 chance created
Keane: 2/3 passes, 1 shot (on target)
Sidibe: 5/5 passes, 1 shot, 1 assist, 1 chance created (big chance), 2/6 crosses (here's where you can argue that a better striker would increase output)
Davies: 4/9 passes (0/2 inside penalty area)
Sigurdsson: 6/8 passes (0/1 penalty area), 1 chance created, 1 shot (blocked)
Digne: 5/12 passes (ouch) (0/1 penalty area), 4 chances created, 3/8 crosses
Iwobi: 9/11 passes (0/1 penalty area), 1 chance created (big chance), 1/3 crosses
Calvert-Lewin: 2/7 passes (0/1 penalty area), 1 shot (blocked), 1/1 cross
Richarlison: 9/13 passes (1/1 penalty area), 3 shots (1 on target), 1 goal, 2 big chances, 3 chances created, 0/1 cross

Schneiderlin: come on, attacking third? lol
Kean: 1/1 pass, 2 shots (1 on target)

I bolded what I think is noteworthy, either on the good or bad side. Draw your own conclusions :-)

Phil Greenough
178 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:44:16
Jim, I'm not thick, I don't need the many on here telling me about the possibility of relegation. It's like posters who write in capital letters "Silva out", as if it makes a blind bit of difference how he expresses his opinions, to the powers that be at Everton or fellow Evertonians.

May I take the opportunity on this forum, to pass on my condolences to Benik Afobec, who's daughter, aged two passed away. There are more important things in life than football.

Kristian Boyce
179 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:47:14
Rob @168, while Davies gets the criticism for the 2nd goal, Sigurdsson pulls out on a tackle and lets Tielmaans run. Any midfielder of decent standard would quite happily put a tackle in, even to draw a tactical foul.
Paul A Smith
180 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:47:27
Jim, you make a good point about most of Moshiri's reign and that should be our biggest focus after concern for this run.

It has been a shambles to me, right from day one and I could (and have) listed tons of reasons and not one can yet be proved wrong.

Someone a while ago hit me with a great line, with Inflation and TVriches concerned a mate said to me – this is Randy Lerner on steroids this Moshiri business. Again, there is nothing to prove that wrong in my opinion.

The money wasted could have easily funded 2 or 3 more top players and we have prioritised like a kid playing FIFA almost every window.

Terry Farrell
181 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:48:43
Jim, there is always a chance we can go down but it's slim. Yes, I'm over 10 years old but whilst still in junior school I knew that it was fruitless sacking a manager with no credible replacement. I also know that you don't go to Leicester and put more numbers in midfield.

You have no perspective mate. We will not get relegated with or without Silva. We need a longer-term plan and sometimes to believe when things seem hopeless.

Ian Riley
182 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:51:54
Look, we are in deep trouble and heading to Birmingham, QPR, and Derby next season. This is not a time for a manager to plan for the next 3 years. It's here and now!

We need a manager who knows how to get teams out of the sticky stuff! Get on the phone and get Big Sam. I couldn't care less if we give him 3 million to save us.

Let's not single out players. It's a team game and sadly the league doesn't lie. Let's not be snobs about our next appointment of manager. How much do we want to stay in the Premier League?

Mike Doyle
183 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:54:00
Pat @164, Good point.

On a related point, though, I heard a Liverpool fan on last week's Radio Merseyside phone-in make the point that Jordan Henderson is often used by Klopp as a 60-minute player – and replaced around the hour mark.

I guess the difference is that Klopp is the calibre of manager who would actually have a plan for the roles of key personnel.

If anyone suggested our bloke had a plan for player/game management we'd react like Blackadder when General Melchett made the same claim... to keep throwing ourselves at German guns until all that is left is General Hague's tortoise, Alan (or something along those lines).

Ian Edwards
184 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:54:33
We'll never have a goal threat with one isolated forward. It's as plain as the nose on your face. Unless the Manager goes with two up top, we are fucked.
Pat Kelly
185 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:57:00
Mike, we're not short in the 60-minute player department.
Jim Wilson
186 Posted 01/12/2019 at 20:58:44
Terry - you might have some good ideas.

But you said we can't play Baines because he hasn't played for a long time. That means you can't play him in the next game for the same reason or the next. In fact you can never play him as he hasn't played for a long time!

If you can be bothered looking at the record books, when we play a back 5 we usually get beat, while a 5-man midfield usually gets us something out the game. Moyes got us to 4th using a 5-man midfield.

Julian Exshaw
187 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:02:59
I wouldn't criticise anyone tonight after that. Of course there'll be an individual error here or there but the roasting that Davies got on the forum was totally OTT.

We played well, were well organised and the 20-minute spell after half-time was particularly good. But somewhere there lies a self-destruct button which has been around since as long as I can remember, an inevitability that sooner or later it's going to turn sour. You dare not dream as an Evertonian.

I like Silva and felt desperately sorry for him at the end. I have never claimed he is coach of the year but you can't fault his effort, his honesty, and all-round decency. The man has had no luck.

So now we move to Wednesday. Somehow I can't see these players giving it a go again, I think they're punch drunk. Silva will be retained until then while the board dithers and will probably move for Howe before the Chelsea match just because he appears to be an Evertonian and because Bournemouth 'kind of do alright for a small club'.

Whoever, whatever – we need a change of fortune, we need to smile again. These are harrowing times. Nil Satis...

Derek Knox
188 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:06:51
Kristian @ 179, good point and observation there in my opinion, Schneiderlin – who would never play if I had my way – reminds me of the Incredible Hulk except the Hulk was better looking.

By that I mean, you never saw him actually fight anyone in the TV Series, he would run up to them probably turning a car over in the process, and then proceeded to make grunts and groans and gesticulate to whoever he approached, without making physical contact.

Schneiderlin emulates the Hulk in that respect, 90% of the time, or lunges in with ill-timed tackle that results in a yellow or red card, a free-kick in a dangerous position, and leaves his team-mates stranded.

Gerry Ring
189 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:08:58
Why the fuck did we sell McCarthy for £3 million????
Terry Farrell
190 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:09:35

I'm emotional and pissed off and, as a fellow Blue, I respect you, but I'm going to bed. Yes, 5-man defence can be 3 and 2 fwd full-backs or 5 defenders – just as 5 midfielders can be defensive or a combination.

I loved Stevie Pienaar, Tim Cahill, Marouanne Fellaini, Leon Osman, and Kevin Mirallas – they all had a bit of everything.

Be honest, given the injuries he didn't have the personnel today to load the midfield. Like you, I'm not on Cloud 9 – I just think we won't be relegated and don't want another Big Sam decision or Moyes decision. Davy did well but I don't want a 2nd coming!

Night, Jim!

David Thomas
191 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:09:51
On my way back from the game now and I see people still backing Davies. Is this for real? The lad is miles out of his depth. Surely I'm not the only person who thinks this?
Anthony Murphy
192 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:10:11
Sorry, but it is simply naive to think this team are too good to be relegated. Right now, we have all the hallmarks of a club that will be relegated:

We can't score, we can't defend, we have injuries to key players, we have failed to replace key players who have left, we never win when conceding first, our home form is now as poor as our away form, we have been turned over by lower-ranking teams we should be beating, other teams around the relegation zone are showing they are up for the fight...

Should I continue?

We need to wake the fuck up now!!!

Tony Abrahams
193 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:12:53
That was my first thought when I read your Christy having a go at our midfield much earlier in this thread, Gerry!
James Marshall
194 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:14:33
The Chinese league season just finished. A team called Dalian Yifang finished 5th. Now this might be an unpopular thing to say for many on here, but I'm all for it.

2 words: Rafa Benitez.

Paul A Smith
195 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:14:53
I think the Premier League has got maybe 5 teams where you fancy them to beat all the rest. We are in the bracket of all those 15 that can beat each other in any given week.

I look at the other 5 teams and we don't have many capable of playing weekly for them. The other 15 all have slight positives going for them that could outdo each other.

For instance: Watford have better forwards than us; we have better full-backs. Slight differences but all those teams under 4th or 5th are of poor standard.

Would Man City want any of Man Utd's players? Maybe Pogba... but I think Pep would believe he could get something better.

The Premier League is a shambles overall and to make that leap takes quality first. We have had about 6 Number 10s under Moshiri. To play one position... haha.

Mike Connolly
196 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:15:37
Someone tell me what Tom Davies brings to the team apart from him being a local lad? What I seen today was a player who can't find his own player from 5 yards.

He can't tackle, his shooting is pathetic, and he looks unfit as fuck. Why I'm singling him out — I believe he was at fault for the two goals.

Unfortunately, the way we are going, we will be relegated. The manager should have went ages ago but people were saying "Give him time". We'll have plenty of time to think when we're travelling to Middlesbrough next season...

Bobby Mallon
197 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:16:12
My team for Wednesday:

Sidibe Kean Mina Digne
Coleman Baines
Bernard Iwobi Davies Bernard
Kean Richarlison

James Marshall
198 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:17:08
Bobby - 13 players might be our best hope. Fingers crossed nobody else notices.
Bobby Mallon
199 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:17:31
I put two Bernards – one should Sigurdsson! 😀😀
James Marshall
200 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:18:13
It's still 13 players, Bobby!
Phil Greenough
201 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:18:36
Phillip Warrington
202 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:19:08
Today's game highlighted how bad we do the simple things. I lost count how many times we failed to pass a ball to a team mate only metres away without being pressured by the other team or how many times wide players were left out wide standing free while our player were ball watching and failing to mark players goal side and getting turned so easily.

These are all basic 101 of playing football which is what Moyes did well and made Everton the team to take the next step, but then every manager since has decided Moyes's Everton was out of date and we need to more expansive... the only trouble is, they have forgotten how tough and committed and, above all, how they used to play for the shirt and were proud to wear it.

Now, we have mercenary players who love the money but don't really commit on the pitch and we appoint managers who have never been successful in big leagues with their previous clubs.

People can bag Moyes all they want but he would never let a player put on an Everton shirt who was not committed – unlike the garbage that we now call our team. I am not saying Moyes is the man for the job now, but whoever it is, they have to have a strong character and one the Everton players fear and know that, if they don't put in, they're out – no matter who they are.

James Marshall
203 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:19:49
This is the best bit of this thread.

I'm gonna stick my neck out and say it again – Rafa Benitez is at a loose end.

Bobby Mallon
204 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:20:23
Oh yeh, 13... ha ha – it's the gin; I'm drowning sorrows.

What is it with Everton? Can someone please try and find out if we have been cursed???

Tony Abrahams
205 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:26:39
We took the curse with open arms, Bobby, he kept us in the big league, but only as small-time players though.
John P McFarlane
206 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:28:37
James #203, I think you might be right as apparently, according to The Telegraph's chief football writer / sports writer, there's a board meeting to be held tomorrow to discuss Marco's future. He writes that the directors weren't happy with the change of formation and the use of subs by Marco today.
Allan Board
208 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:29:20
It's almost as if Everton find every possible way to lose, throw a game away, or give up winning positions. It's spooky. Do you think the owners have the club's interest at heart? I know I don't think they have.

Is this one big con trick? Get relegated and they will say they are not prepared to put money into a new stadium whilst outside the top league. Still no planning consent, no funding in place... this all stinks.

Everton's survival this season is going to mirror that of 1994. Let's hope it goes our way again. The thing that worries me is it came close in '94 and again in '97. 3rd time unlucky?

I agree with Andy Crooks, it reeks of fear and the stench of unprofessionalism. 30 years in the making, this recipe, and finally the grub in the cupboard has gone rotten.

Where's Rocky when you need him?

Tim Smith
209 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:29:43
I don't like to criticise younger players, but surely Calvert-Lewin is a Championship striker at best. When he plays alone up-front, he does a lot of running, and whilst this wins him plaudits from some, I think it masks the fact that, in those critical moments when he has a chance, he doesn't have the quality of finishing a Premier League striker needs.

It happened once in this game, he broke forward and had a chance to shoot but it hit a defender and even so it looked to be off-target. Perhaps it is time to stick Kean in this role and stick with him for a few games.

Whatever happens and whoever is manager, I hope Brands is planning for the January window to get us out of jail. We need at least an experienced centre-back plus two midfielders, ideally experienced players with some steel and leadership. Plus a forward. I'd avoid risking players who've not played in the Premier League before. Grim times.

Mark Guglielmo
210 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:30:09
No problem Bobby, just remove 1 of the Bernards and Coleman, because he's out until January. Voila! Now it's 11.

James @203 I don't think I would've been able to resist the urge to say "I'm gonna stick my neck out and say it again - Rafa Benitez is at a noose end."

*tips cap, gets coat, heads for door*

Jer Kiernan
211 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:32:32
Taxi for Marco!!! Is he gone yet??

Benitez??? – Please can we as a club not degrade ourselves anymore than is already? Are these people sado-masochists?

Appointing a has-been who hasn't won anything in decades, who got Newcastle relegated and nearly got them relegated a 2nd time before fleeing to 1984 and abandoning his family – shocking stuff.

Somebody pinch me, tell me I am dreaming. Are we going to be here in May with Benitez relegating Everton and Klopp's phoney white teeth beaming from ear to ear, dancing with the Premier League trophy in the middle of the pitch in Mordor with the Sky pundit Carragher???

We are nearly at rock bottom; let's not sink to further depths, please.

James Marshall
212 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:34:12
As someone said above, one of the saving graces in the Premier League this season is that there are about 15 teams who can easily beat one another on any given day. This means it's likely to stay tight all season, so any one of them can move down or up (as they say in the world of investment) the league.

We're not too good to go down, but there are plenty of teams competing to be the worst 3 in the Premier League this season.

One thing that strikes me about Everton nowadays is that we seem to buy too many players on the way down – we often buy from so-called bigger clubs, players like Schneiderlin, Delph, Iwobi, Walcott et al. Players who've been at (like it or not) bigger clubs than Everton. I question this type of player's motivation to succeed and battle it out at a club like ours.

Neil Wood
213 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:34:48
Jerome at 131 hits the nail on the head.
James Marshall
214 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:36:43
Jer @211

Let's hear your ideas for the manager of Everton Football Club then?

I'm all ears.

John Reynolds
215 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:37:06
Bobby, I love your 13-man team with Seamie and Baines in holding midfield and two Bernards for Wednesday.

What's your gin of choice? We could all get a bottle in to numb the pain of the derby.

Rob Dolby
216 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:38:32
I thought we controlled the game for long periods today. We scored a great goal and looked solid despite Iwobi looking awful again.

As soon as the shape was broken we looked vulnerable. Going into the game we all knew that the midfield was weak and so it proved for both goals.

With 5 mins to go we should have managed the game better and either sat deep to defend in numbers or waste time. We did neither and paid the price.

As galling as it was, VAR was actually used properly today.

At what point does Moshiri pull the trigger? Silva seems slow to make changes and rarely do his substitutions impact games. His teams show little resilience. Rogers makes the sub who set up the equaliser and scores the winner; who is the best manager?

We have been beaten by Burnley, Sheffield Utd, Brighton, Aston Villa and Norwich City. All of those teams have worse players than ours but all of the managers have worked one over on Silva.

We need to make a change.

Jer Kiernan
218 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:40:30
James @214,

I have made in persistently clear on ToffeeWeb who I think is the right man at this time and he is a viable option: Eddie Howe is the man.

He is young and in his prime as a manager and will unite our club and fans, and deliver us to Bramley-Moore Dock playing attacking football.

Benitez is finished. If it was 2003, yes... but he hasn't done nothing in years... on top of how desperate we will look appointing him.

The club need to be brave here and progressive and look forward. Eddie has served his apprenticeship and deserves this for me.

There is no guarantee Benitez will save us from the drop... in fact, his recent record with Newcastle says the opposite.

Gerry Ring
219 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:44:18
Tony @193. While my brother Christy & I are true blues we don't collaborate on posts. His opinions on the Everton midfield are completely his own but I'm still bamboozled as to who Silva disposed of McCarthy for a pittance, while hanging on to Schneiderlin.
Craig Walker
220 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:45:14
A year ago we lost a televised away game in injury time in a cruel manner having played really well and been unlucky to lose. Carragher was the co-commentator and went nuts, rubbing salt in the wounds.

Today, history repeated itself but the performance wasn't good to this viewer. We gave the ball away so easily, resorting to hoofball. We created very little. The play-acting by Mina and Richarlison made me embarrassed.

It was blatantly obvious early in the second half that Leicester would equalise and then go on and win it. They have pace, width, creativity, drive and a natural goalscorer led by a talented manager.

Same old Everton failings on view today. If history does repeat itself, we'll now go on a disastrous run of results like that which followed the Anfield game last year.

For people saying there are currently 3 teams worse than us, ask yourselves this: will there be 3 teams worse than us after December's fixtures? Seriously worrying times ahead.

James Marshall
221 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:46:02
Eddie Howe is probably the man they'll go for, you're right there.

Is he the right man for the job? I don't think he is. He's also not available, and can we go doing what we did to Watford to get him like last time?

I'm not convinced he's viable due to availability (or lack of it) as much as anything, Jer. We can't just wave stacks of cash at people and force clubs to let them leave. That's not how this works.

Michael McIvor
223 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:49:54
Really pissed off with the defeat but I did witness fight and a will to win today. This was definitely mixed with a certain nervousness not to make mistakes and get beat; unfortunately, mistakes were made and we got beat.

However, I was genuinely happy with the fight and commitment today which makes me pause regarding the position of Marco Silva. What is glaringly obvious is the lack of a striker on the pitch (as well as a few other issues).

What I am prepared to say is stick with Marco for the time being; it was clear to me that the players tried their best today without confidence and without the freedom to completely express themselves. One or two players are not good enough at this level but today gave me a little encouragement and confidence in Marco Silva. There, I said it.

Craig Walker
224 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:50:25
Benitez has achieved more than Howe. Newcastle fans loved him. He was working with his hands behind his back. His team came back from 2 goals down to beat us: when do we do that?

Eddie Howe is a nice guy who plays nice football but his teams can't defend. We've been there with Roberto. I'd have him before Moyes though but we need someone who has managed big clubs and big egos.

The players have too much power at Everton and seem to decide who they want to play for.

Paul A Smith
225 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:50:32
I can see the club looking to loan a striker in January and maybe a midfielder with pace and energy. Gana wasn't the greatest but my word he might be our biggest loss of a player in history, next to Lukaku.

Gerry the club tried to offload Schneiderlin to Besiktas. He had to stay with us being short in that department if we got injuries and that is what happened.

We bid for Doucoure and didn't get him, I am sure Schniederlin was a goner if that happened. I don't think Silva ever planned to play with him or Tosun but has probably had to.

Mark Guglielmo
226 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:51:27
Rob @216, why'd you think Iwobi was awful? Literally every attacking statistic (and my eyes) say otherwise but I'm curious what's driving your opinion.

Jer @218, are you basically banking on Howes doing better because he'd have a bigger budget here? He doesn't really have much of a track record of success in the Premier League... though that would depend on your definition of success, I suppose.

James Marshall
227 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:54:24
Benitez would at least address the shambles that is our defence, and the organisation side of things. He'd make us hard to beat, which is what we're not currently.

Eddie Howe, for me, would send out the wrong message and most of our players would think, "who the hell is this guy telling me what to do?"

Benitez is done in China, his family live in the area, he's said he wants to come back to the PL and we're in need. To my mind, it all fits.

Jer Kiernan
228 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:56:25
James @221,

To be honest, I am not sure about the legal stuff etc. There is a clause of course in his contract, but what price our survival? Also, we splurged a large sum on a manager who had proved previously he could NOT manage in Premier League.

I know Eddie wants to manage us, has stated this in the past, and is a boyhood blue, so Bournemouth may not want an unhappy coach at the club. To be fair, I doubt anybody in the game including their (Bournemouth) fans would begrudge him his opportunity, I am sure he has had offers previously.

If some of the big 'a-hem' "stars" in our club don't take to Eddie, they can play in the reserves... simple, would do us no harm, to be honest. Sheffield Utd have no "stars", they have a good coach, and they are doing fine. I believe after the clueless Marco, the players will buy into Eddie's philosophy very quickly.

If we have to pay, we have to pay. Give Morgan a free and his wages will cover it in 6 months!!

Paul A Smith
229 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:57:45
Mark I wouldn't say awful. He might have played 2 very good passes if I remember right but stats don't cover every pass as good substance if they don't create anything.

I think he doesn't know his best position and is all fur coat and no knickers.
He is direct but lacks control on the ball and plays some dead head passes.

Not much different from every other midfielder to be fair. All I see is a lack of substance or real threat.

Michael 223 i agree with mostly. The goalscorer has made the difference in loads of our games. I think Silva is done though. It has got to the point where so many don't want him to turn it around.

How can it continue in that circumstance?

Nigel Peters
230 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:58:41
Despite all the posts about how crap this player was or that player is the reality is there's not really much wriggle room before the next 2 games. Three options: Kean for Calvert-Lewin maybe, Bernard for Sigurdsson possibly, Schneiderlin for Keane almost definitely... and that's about it.

Not a side that's going to dominate the top sides so all you can do is hang in, try not to give the ball away, and hope our luck changes. It has got to the point now where Siva's position is untenable but I sort of agree with some other posters that, unless somebody is lined up for the NewYear and Ferguson can hold the tiller for a while, it's unfair on the new man to throw them into the deep end.

Let's get the next 3 or 4 games out of the way.

Paul Jones
231 Posted 01/12/2019 at 21:59:55
The team was set up to not get beat and possibly nick a win. The plan nearly worked but was dependent upon the manager being able to execute appropriate substitutions at the right time.

In this respect, Silva could not manage the game and has never shown any aptitude at all three of his Premier League clubs to organise a squad to positive effect.

Him and his chosen failing backroom staff need to be removed immediately and Duncan Ferguson given charge for the next fixture and those following until a permanent appointment is made.

Mick Conalty
232 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:01:48
Moshiri has said that he does not expect us to get a result when we play the top six. So today's narrow defeat must be a great result for him.

Presumably a narrow defeat to Liverpool and Silva will be Manager of the Month to this poor misguided soul.

Ciarán McGlone
233 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:02:13
I'm truly astonished that some posters think we were good in that second half.
Rob Marsh
234 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:03:42
James Marshall # 203

By the time EFC stop dithering about saying goodbye to Silva, the Gooners will have stepped in and snapped up Benitez.

The Moyesiah or Big Sam, pastie and pint in hand on the sideline, will be our immediate fate.

Joe McMahon
235 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:05:34
Rob, don't you mean Moyes or Unsworth. Absolute shambles of a serious up.
Paul A Smith
236 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:05:50
I think it is really important our next manager has his mobile phone on him every week so he can check in with fans on what is the best minute to make a sub.

That would be one smart move to gain some support over his tenure.

Mark Guglielmo
237 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:07:17
Paul I noted his attacking third stats so by very definition they're already pretty important. Moreso for a team who everyone says can't create. Completing 9 of 11 passes and a big chance is very good on most days, excellent on some (those being the days we actually can find the net).

And not even captured in those stats is the brilliant pass to Sidibe that led directly to Richy's goal. And all of this at right forward where he never plays. I think Iwobi knows very much where his best position is; it's in the middle as an attacking MF. Where Silva uses him is another question entirely.

Of all the players we can gripe about, I'd put him pretty close to the bottom of that list. Ymmv

Joe McMahon
238 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:12:44
Jer@218 Benitez gave doomed Newcastle a chance and got them straight back up. He also got Chelsea to 3rd and a Europa League trophy in awful circumstances from their abhorrent supporters.

For the record, Moyes was at Sunderland all season and relegated them, signing shite like Victor Anichebe and Darron Gibson on crazy high-paid contracts.

Eddie Dunn
239 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:14:27
Ian Edwards, says we were lost without a second striker and just look at Rodgers... he plonked Iheanacho up with Vardy, while Marco took off Calvert-Lewin and put on Kean. Like-for-like just like all season.

We were unlucky today. The boys worked hard. I criticised Davies on the Live Forum but by the time he was making mistakes, he was bushed. Sigurdsson was shown up for his immobility, the guy is great on the odd set-piece or venturing forth against tiring legs late in the game. We got him 2 years too late.

I feel sorry for Silva on the night. Fate was cruel. But we brought it on ourselves. There were chances to boot the ball out off Leicester shins, there were chances to scythe down guys on halfway. We were neither cynical nor savvy enough to do either.

Marco has tried his best and tonight so did all of the team. We have to do this all again on Wednesday. Only this time, we need to have the luck on our side. Play Kean and Calvert-Lewin together. We might just get a few goals.

Paul A Smith
240 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:14:35
Mark, I saw that great slide-rule ball to set up an assist and one great ball over the top to set Richarlison free.

I didn't see a cross, a shot of any note, a through ball to a striker. All the things that create chances and he created one you say? That might be true. Hardly worth praise.

Right side is no stranger to him either. He is right-footed and scored from the right at Goodison for Arsenal a few seasons back. It's hard to believe that was his only other game there.

Oliver Molloy
241 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:16:37
No matter what anyone's analysis of the game says, losing today like we did is very tough to take. I am absolutely gutted and that is putting it mildly.

Right now, I think Everton FC are cursed – end of fucking story!

Derek Thomas
242 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:17:31
Tom Davies can only do the whole midfields running and chasing for so long.

VAR was only going to rule in our favour Vs ex rs Rogers new team for so long.

Rogers brings on a sub that won then the game...a nice final pass and a VAR assited 'goal'

Our own 'Dead Man Walking' / 'One Day At A Time' manager – well, it's not all his fault this time – sees us being more and more overrun, brings on ... Schneiderlin.

The Manager and Team upped their game – well, by last week's standard anyway – to what in days of yore, used to be the bare minimum requirement.

Will he go? Will he fuck. Will Ferguson be the main man at Anfield? No way, sorry Dunc, but it's cones for you again and the nearest you'll get to managing Everton is on the back of the Daily Mail.

So, to sum up, a barely average effort-wise 2-1 loss is enough to paper over the cracks until the next game.

Edit: Their player hadn't scored for ages – gets his early Christmas present off us.

And it's the first goal ever in the Premier League awarded by VAR contrary to the match officials' call – against us, it just had to be.

Mark Guglielmo
243 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:26:09
Paul sounds like you rate him about a 6/10 or so? I'd put him around 7/10 so really we're not that far off. He's one of our best though, for whatever that's worth.

Also, who said Rafa got his Chinese team to 5th? 😂 More like 9th. Out of 16, so bottom table. In China. 10 wins for £12m. Good work if you can get it!

Oh and I just came up with this one, let me know your thoughts.

Everton are the football equivalent of male performance anxiety. We kind of get it up and can't finish. 🥁

*tips cap, gets coat, heads for door*

Paul Birmingham
244 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:26:48
Fate and luck, but we don't get much luck.

No killer instinct nor natural positioning instinct up front to feed off the excellent crosses Sidibe put in the second half.

Fatal flaws in midfield and game management. We need a miracle and a striker who can score. I'd stick Moise Kean on from the start on Wednesday.

What happens in terms of a manager, who knows? The club can't keep screwing it up with the wrong appointment.

Massive stakes now, and this will be a very difficult 6 months.

Mediocrity can't be accepted, and now, bar a miracle, the toughest run of matches for a couple of years.

Hope eternal.

Rob Marsh
245 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:29:45
You know what boys?

I want Silva gone, but I do feel for him, I believe he's been shafted by Moshiri and Brands.

Firstly let's say his tactical skills, choices of personnel and motivational skills seem to be absent and that's why I want him gone.

I can't though help feeling that, having had the experience of last season with us and how blunt we were upfront, during the summer he wanted an unproven kid (Kean) to be our saviour. He wanted a proven striker more than anything, but accepted the Director of Football's decision and that the club wants to fill its ranks with young talent with a high future market value.

It's my belief that this is the reason why he's still here; Moshiri backed his Director of Football and said to Silva "Don't worry, we'll give you time to get things right."

We are where we are and it's gone tits up, Silva will be sacrificed while others just as culpable walk away.

Alan McGuffog
246 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:29:52
Ever the optimist... Wednesday night will be the last time that lot batter us in a league game for a long, long time.
Ken Kneale
247 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:31:53

Do you want to revisit your second paragraph at 244? You have missed out the contribution of our wonderful forward coach – soon to be manager, in the eyes of some media outlets.

Rob Marsh
248 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:34:25
Alan # 246

Ominous words, I hadn't thought about it that way, but it could happen.

John Pierce
249 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:38:12
This isn't some hard luck story. It's just very typical under Silva. Look he set it up right, we disrupted, isolated Vardy and have no space to Maddison. If you can recall their names being mentioned in that first half, then I could not.

We were tight and the shape defensive and we actually took a chance! The same combination and quality for the goal at Southampton worked again. A truly excellent goal. Deserved.

Half time we stayed in the ascendancy and failed to take the open right-hand side and finish the game off.

Rogers changed it, occupied the second centre-back and pushed Maddison on the third. It left the midfield exposed. Silva utterly failed to adapt or change the personnel to counter it.

The goal borne out of error was a picture Silva ignored. When Pickford kicked that ball Davies was left all alone, around three/four men.

A warning ignored, Silva was culpable and left it to chance. We dropped deeper and paid the price.

He is continually out-coached either from the start of the game or during it, a flaw that cannot be ignored.

He must be sacked immediately, again that's on the board who have been paralyzed by past mistakes. Inaction might leave the next permanent incumbent too much to do.

Paul A Smith
250 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:46:43
Mark, I just don't rate him as yet and he couldn't find a position at Arsenal.

I did notice you chose to call him 'right forward' though and in all your arguments for Kean you called his position 'right wing', in exactly the same place.

The Kean call was wrong anyway because the formation didn't accommodate a right-winger but it further shows what I have said for ages, too many wrong calls to suit their own argument rather than stick with the truth of it.

I see we are all frustrated but some of the wasted energy in nonsense about Silva is purely unhelpful. That's from shouts he is against Youngsters and playing Davies was forced on him, to ideas of knowing more about Kean than Silva does.

That might mean he is not as good as Calvert-Lewin during the week as hard as that may be to believe.

When the next manager comes in I am going to analyse what he needs, what he lacks, what he can do good things with and stay off his case if he has this lot of players.

David Thomas
251 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:51:18
Derek 242

Are you suggesting Davies had a good game today?

Brian Porter
252 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:52:54
I can't believe Silvais still here. He should have been dismissed within minutes of the final whistle today.
The man is, truly delusional, talking after the game as if everything's hunky dory and atvpeace with the world. Saying we're going forward to Wednesday and preparing for the game, when he should have already been relieved of his duties.
This is Everton all over, or at least the Everton of today, dithering, hesitant and unable to act on the continuing evidence of their own eyes. No matter what you think of Silva, and I admit I never wanted him, it has to be blatantly obvious to Moshiri and everyone else at board level that he simply is not good enough, and continuing with this week by week purgatory is doing nobody any favours, and is raising the spectre of relegation to unwarranted proportions.

What the hell are they expecting to happen? A sudden transformation of the team into serial winners, sending us shooting up the table before Christmas. The only shooting they're doing is shooting ourselves in the foot and in all likelihood, we will be firmly planted in the bottom three by Christmas. Will they then realise that the threat of relegation is a reality and they only have themselves to blame.

Silva should have been dismissed after the Burnley game and by now, with a new manager in place we might have begun to pick up a few vital points. It's soon going to be too late for a, new man to make a difference. They MUST act NOW.


Christy Ring
253 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:54:44
Have to change it, a new start, Arteta in charge for Wednesday night.
Mark Guglielmo
254 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:55:16
Paul, when Kean played right it was in a 4-2-3-1, which is a right attacking mid. This is where he can't play. If I said wing then, I misspoke. With 3 forwards, should Kean be given a chance, he should be first at CF, and if not there, then LF preferably, and finally, at RF as long as it's a narrow front 3.

Today Iwobi played right forward in a 3-4-3 (when attacking), so not the same thing. I'd still prefer him in a 10, as would most I believe.

Cristobal Aguirre
255 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:55:28
Hope to avoid a defeat in our last visit to Anfield in two decades. We are the next Leeds. In my opinion we are already a relegated team. Nothing can save us from this manager and staff. Maybe we should sell all the players during january transfer windows just to avoid the decrease in their value. After Burnley game which will probably be our 10 defeat in a row we should start the remaining games with our U23, as they will represent us in the championships the years to come. They need to gain experience from now. It is a frustrating sarcastic post (so far)
David Hallwood
256 Posted 01/12/2019 at 22:55:37
David#251, no I didn't think Davies had a good game either. But I've only just seen the goals on MOTD, and yes he lost the ball in the run up to both goals.

But ffs he was in their half and the 2 scorers had an awful lot to do to score, personally I thought it was a comedy of errors and we should've had enough cover to deal with them

Rob Dolby
257 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:02:50
Mark. The bottom line is that I just don't rate Iwobi.

On the ball he is reasonable and probably wants to play as a number 10 or free role.

Off the ball his head is on a swivel, he has no idea of positional sense. He can't tackle and isn't particularly quick. Oh and he hasn't got a very good goal record. Other than that he is great. 35m doesn't buy much these days does it.

Mike Doyle
258 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:04:37
Brian 252] I can’t believe it either. At what point will this pathetic board/DoF/Owner realise that we are limping/jogging towards relegation and take action?
Naively I’d assumed that the Brands’ vote of confidence meant Silva was on his way. One wonders what is going on at EiTC - sorry I meant EFC.
Mike Corcoran
259 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:04:46
Yeah play 3 at the back but ffs not Keane, the man may as well be on a Zimmer frame. Davies has been mauled tonight but when he has to do the job of 2 men there’s going to be problems. Siggy and Snides are finished. Why take off Iwobi when siggy should have been hooked in a swap for Kean or god forbid Gordon. To be honest I’d have preferred to see DCL alongside Davies and Kean up front today. There’s no place for no pace any more
Bill Fairfield
260 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:10:09
Marco out coached again and again,he is completely out of his depth in the premier league. Time to hire someone who can compete with the big boys at all costs before yet another season is wasted,massive disappointment,the board are like cats in the headlights
Mike Doyle
261 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:11:11
Another defeat - but still our CEO (Little Ms Dynamite) remains silent.
Mark Guglielmo
262 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:11:16
Rob at least you admit that it's bias. He's an attacking mid or forward, I don't know why you expect him to tackle or view him as not having pace, but I'll chalk that up to bias again. I don't know where you got 35m from, but maybe you didn't convert to £.
Ray Smith
263 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:23:07

Why change?

It might not be pretty, but it was working.

Bye bye Marco no plan B!

Don Alexander
264 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:25:50
I'm just watching MOTD and see the goal-scoring legends Pukki and Cantwell ripping the Arse a new arse. They scored twice and hit the post after the Arse goalie tipped it onto it. Nearly three whole goals Everton, three, in one match, wow!!

It'd do-able lads if Finch Farm was functional, because the Canaries were still bottom despite the prezzy you delivered 'em last week.

Think about that re Wednesday lads. Fucking Norwich City have scored two goals or more in five games this season, as opposed to four games from you fuckers.

Pathetic, all round.

And, for a bit of perspective, it's the RS next, then a dodgy Chelsea, then a flakey Man U, then a piss-poor Arsenal, then Burnley, then Newcastle before Hogmanay.

9 points minimum if you players call yourselves professional I'd say.

Mike Price
265 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:27:40
Davies, CL, Holgate are Championship at best...why are all our home grown players levels below Liverpool’s?
The manager was a bad appointment and it’s going to cost many millions yet again. The Goodison crowd are the only thing that should stop relegation but the recruitment has been relegation worthy!
Players not fit for purpose on huge contracts that you can’t give away and no characters in the squad to dig us out. I had hopes for Delph but he needs to get fit, sort his fucking life out and justify his ridiculous contract.
Benitez is the only proper manager we’re linked with, everyone else mentioned will fail.
Christy Ring
266 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:28:43
Sadly our midfield is non existent, Davies only got a chance because of injury, now he's the only midfielder we have, Sigurdsson and Iwobi, can't tackle, Delph as at City, should be a character from Casualty, I won't even discuss Schneiderlin, and Silva got rid of McCarthy for £3m, hope Beni is fit for Wednesday night.
Tom Dodds
267 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:40:50
Like the aftermath of the disaster that will be brexit, coupled with our exit from the prem its only then, (and just starting now) or shortly afterwards while we are drowning,that 'those' ('Blue Billers'/'immigrant's outer's crew ) will be squeel ing like stuffed pigs in both aftermaths.

A good handfull of people have been pointing this out for 10++ years now,the level of uselessness and latent blood-sucking cum (laterly) wormtongueing from the greatest blue this entire universe has ever fuckin seen.

To those of you who doubted the incinscerity of the great agm banning /Phillip Green-loan-beholdant-jobs/share windfalling>non-funder half billionaire Robert Earl ×umpteen other Guardian published/articled scenario's
..We will now need a..
MIRACLE to stay up.

Mike Doyle
268 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:41:51
Bill. Wasted season should be the least of our concerns. The way things are looking we are going down.
I hope Perl Holdings have a contingency plan for BMD.
Jer Kiernan
269 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:44:27
@Tom Dodds 267
C'mon Tom up to bed with ye,, sleep it off, Youv had enough for one day !!

nite nite ;)

Raymond Fox
270 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:49:07
I didnt see anyone on here post that we might get something out of this game.
We get beat in the last seconds and its the same carping, the managers crap, so so players are rubbish.
We were away to the team in second place, I think some of you need to give it a effing rest.
Mark Guglielmo
271 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:52:24
Raymond, don't worry, they'll all be back with more (exact same) complaining after we don't win at Anfield lol
Dale Rose
272 Posted 01/12/2019 at 23:56:53
Phil 178.

Your second paragraph puts it all in perspective.

Mike Price
273 Posted 01/12/2019 at 00:01:46
Oh, and Pickford is a liability. When does he ever have a blinder and steal a win!? He does the basics but any decent semi pro keeper does that; we should have got Fabianski, a keeper that actually contributes and makes the occasional difference.
Stop with the Tosun is a true blue bullshit, he needs to get the fuck out of our club. He’s utterly out of his depth and yet another financial nightmare that we’re stuck with. He’s taking the piss on a ridiculous contract and that’s the only reason he’s not gone back to the Turkish Sunday league.
Massive rebuild needed but we’ve got a very Leeds feel about us right now. Hopefully there’s three worse teams and a new manager can dig out the required points. Them winning the league and us getting relegated has a really bad feel about it.
Terry White
274 Posted 02/12/2019 at 00:03:19
Christy (#266), how many times can you tell us Silva sold McCarthy? You wouldn't be Irish by any chance, would you? We know you are a big Coleman fan also.
Mark Guglielmo
275 Posted 02/12/2019 at 00:09:14
Mike @273 your comment makes me have to laugh. All the things that are wrong, and you single Pickford and Tosun out haha. Pickford arguably kept us in the game, and didn't have a chance on either goal. And Tosun didn't even get a minute! Good laugh, thanks.
John Boon
276 Posted 01/12/2019 at 00:11:23
Ray (270). I tend to agree with just what you posted. The problem is that loyal fans are justifiably frustrated and what you are seeing is the outcome of frustration and bitter disappointment. In actual fact we should not be looking up to Leicester because the money we have waste, yes wasted, should have made sure that we would be near the top with Leicester.

I don't see any point in throwing foul language and aimless threats at the manager. HE DOES NEED TO BE REPLACED, mainly because he has been totally unsuccessful in trying to turn around a poor team. He was given money and many extras that any new manager would love to have.

Right now we need a saviour or a magician who can try to keep us in the Prem. Everton cannot afford to be relegated. I saw that happen as a twelve year old in 1951. It was much different then. Today MONEY has slanted the field. We just really need a major change. Despite this I will remain TRUE BLUE for ever. Please do something special on Wednesday. PLEASE!!! COYB

John Boon
277 Posted 01/12/2019 at 00:11:23
Ray (270). I tend to agree with just what you posted. The problem is that loyal fans are justifiably frustrated and what you are seeing is the outcome of frustration and bitter disappointment. In actual fact we should not be looking up to Leicester because the money we have waste, yes wasted, should have made sure that we would be near the top with Leicester.

I don't see any point in throwing foul language and aimless threats at the manager. HE DOES NEED TO BE REPLACED, mainly because he has been totally unsuccessful in trying to turn around a poor team. He was given money and many extras that any new manager would love to have.

Right now we need a saviour or a magician who can try to keep us in the Prem. Everton cannot afford to be relegated. I saw that happen as a twelve year old in 1951. It was much different then. Today MONEY has slanted the field. We just really need a major change. Despite this I will remain TRUE BLUE for ever. Please do something special on Wednesday. PLEASE!!! COYB

Ed Prytherch
278 Posted 02/12/2019 at 00:30:26
John Pierce #249 - good analysis. We were out coached.
Ed Prytherch
279 Posted 02/12/2019 at 00:33:09
I wanted Big Sam out but how the hell is this an improvement? Marco Silva is a Poseur.
Bill Gall
280 Posted 02/12/2019 at 01:04:35
Ray Some of the fans are using today's game to vent their feelings but I think the majority are upset about the games, from prior to, and from the beginning of the season. As a supporter with the new owner providing the finances I along with many others expected a much better performance than has been provided. No one likes to see a manager loose his job, but there is no alternative if he is not capable of doing it.

Silva has been given ample opportunities to prove he is the man for the job but his record proves he is not.
So to be polite instead of screaming using foul language I will say sorry Mr Silva you have put this club in one hell of a mess and I don't believe you are capable of getting us out of it please resign before you suffer any more abuse or risk getting fired again

David Pearl
281 Posted 02/12/2019 at 01:26:53
I thought we did okay tonight but lacked the confidence to sustain attack’s and the quality required to keep the ball. Davies & lwobi though good I’m patches gave the ball away far too easily. DCL didn’t have the greatest game either. Is it time to try Kean up front and throw him into a derby? Bad sub tonight again. Davies tried hard but ran out of steam and should of been replaced.

Another question is if we stick with 3 centre backs or go to a midfield 3. Possibly Silva could even go 532. Richarlison and Kean up top with MS sitting behind Davies and lwobi/Siggy. Obviously the 4141 is also an option as we played against City but don’t think that would work and their wide players would find space between the lines.

Pretty sure if we lose it will be curtains for Silva. Our seasons aim has changed from Europe to a top ten finish with a cup run... and now to mid table and a cup run.

Oh the life of an Evertonian. At least we have something to moan about.

John Pierce
282 Posted 02/12/2019 at 02:48:39
My mirth levels are high. The criticism for Davies and Iwobi just don’t add up.

We had no fit defensive midfield fully fit. Silva played the closest he had in Davies. Not only was he round peg/square hole he was left exposed by Silva’s lack of nous when Rogers changed to two up top. Even from defensive midfield he tried to make passes work. To blame him for the first goal is mental. As that goal kick landed no one challenged for the ball and he was swarmed all over.

Any idea were our £45 record captain marvel was in all this?

Iwobi the only play who created anything like an attacking platform. Most of his incomplete passes were attacking ones. The number of balls he played perfectly to Sidibe were there to see.

The system was foreign and there were plenty of candidates out there who are up the list on how well the didn’t play; Siggy the invisible man, Keane and Holgate were shocking in the last 20, again Silva’s inaction did expose them.

But lads Iwobi and Davies the fall guys? 😂😂

Mark Andersson
283 Posted 01/12/2019 at 03:31:08
Same old same old moaning blaming doom and gloom...

The writing may or may not be on the wall... slagging our own players off will never help...

Negative vibes and shouting and screaming dose nothing to help the team...

So what if we go down we can always come back up and up... keep the faith The karma gose both ways...

Andy Mead
284 Posted 02/12/2019 at 03:31:42
On a separate note, why wasnt the Leicester player yellow carded for diving when VAR showed he wasn't touched the penalty area? Isn't that what it is primarily supposed to be for? To weed out cheats?
Derek Thomas
285 Posted 02/12/2019 at 04:04:16
Andy @ 284; Give over, that's the LAST thing its for and the next to last thing is giving us anything positive.

Top of the list is to help see the PL agenda carried on.

Derek Thomas
286 Posted 02/12/2019 at 04:17:54
John @ 282; spot on and more besides.
Iwobi, who attempted to pass forward and mostly played in the top third was subbed for schneiderlin who doesn't pass forward and plays further back.

One Davies got tired, that left nobody to do the work in Midfield and thus the defence were under more pressure.

Holgate and Mina were 2 on 1 for the goal. Holgate kept his nerve Half a second longer than Mina who didn't back himself and Holgate in the offside line stakes, dropped back a yard and played the scorer onside.

Danny Broderick
287 Posted 02/12/2019 at 05:17:14
Why didn’t Sigurdsson bring the lad down after Davies got caught out in midfield? This was our skipper as well. Michael Ball calls it game management. We are getting very little back from our £45 million man.

I don’t think Holgate and DCL are good enough. I’ve got my doubts about Davies too. They are all triers and good lads, but they all come up slightly short.

It’s looking like Silva has to go, but I can’t really fault his game plan for this game. My overriding anger is with the players we have spent a fortune on who are either not good enough or not producing - Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun etc. They should have produced much more for us and have let us down badly. I can excuse young lads who come up short like I’ve listed above. Moise Kean has yet to get going for us either. But seasoned pros, who cost a fortune and are earning a fortune, are basically stealing a living from us and it makes me sick.

Bobby Mallon
288 Posted 02/12/2019 at 05:22:46
I have to agree that iwobi and Davies should not be getting slagged off. Yes Tom lost the ball for the 1st goal but our three centre backs where shocking. Holgate only had to stick a leg out and he would have blocked vardy goal. Just watch how he looks at Vardy and doesn’t put any effort in to get a tackle in. If that was jags he’d have thrown his body on the line.
Ed Fitzgerald
289 Posted 02/12/2019 at 05:47:36
We were very unlucky yesterday and for once you couldn’t fault the players attitude and application. The issue is why haven’t they shown that level of desire for the rest of the season because if we had we wouldn’t have been in this perilous position whatsoever. Both themselves and the manager are to blame for their lack of urgency prior to yesterday’s game.

I would imagine Silva won’t be the manager by Saturday (although you never know). The fans (We) need to play their part as well beginning on Saturday by actually getting behind the team and encouraging them. The prevalent atmosphere at Goodison for too long would best be described as toxic indifference.

Alan J Thompson
290 Posted 02/12/2019 at 05:58:18
I didn't see this game and got only partial radio coverage so can't really comment on this game so thought I'd come on here to gauge the performance but I don't believe some of the posts on here.

One asked why some are worried about relegation.
Well, we are 4th from bottom 2 points above the 3rd from bottom. Unless the rules have changed, the bottom three get relegated that is, play in a lower division. We've played most of the teams around us which means that the next fixtures will be against those teams deemed the better teams by virtue of their League position Oh, and just for luck we are not playing that well under a Manager who doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

Then, somebody asks why we don't play an injured right back in front of the player who has replaced him and a left back who hasn't played three games this season and last in front of his replacement. That will give us 4 full backs, 3 central defenders, 2 defensive midfielders and DCL, Kean, Tosun, Richarlison and Iwobi competing to be the poor sod who gets to stand all on his own up the other end of the pitch and given this Manager's predilection probably somewhere out near the touchline! I've got more sympathy for the juniper berry imbiber who suggested 13 players for the next game.

I'm going for another lie down...where's the tablets?

Mark Guglielmo
291 Posted 02/12/2019 at 06:10:41
Danny @287 Sigurdsson was on a yellow so wouldn't have been very smart for him to do anything risky, especially not a professional foul.

Some stats:
Iwobi: 27 touches, 1 big chance created, 19/23 (83%) passing (9/11 attacking third, 10/11 middle, 2/3 long, 11/13 forward, 2/3 square), 1/3 crosses, 2/3 take-ons, 6 ball recoveries, dispossessed once, 1 foul.

Richarlison: 21 touches, 3 shots (1 on target), 1 goal, 2 big chances received, 3 chances created, 14/19 (74%) passing (5/6 middle third, 9/13 attacking, 7/9 forward, 6/6 backward, 1/4 square, 0/2 headed), 0/1 crosses, 5/7 take-ons, 5 ball recoveries, dispossessed 2 times. Defensively, 2/6 tackles, 1 block, 5/5 clearances (4/4 headed), 1 foul.

DCL: 17 touches, 1 shot (blocked), 10/16 (63%) passing (1/1 defensive third, 7/8 middle, 2/5 attacking, 2/5 forward, 5/5 backward, 3/6 square, 1/4 headed), 1/1 crosses, 1/1 take-ons, dispossessed 3 times. Defensively, 0/1 tackles.

Kean: 5 touches, 2 shots (1 on target), 3/3 (100%) passing (2/2 defensive third, 1/1 attacking, 1/1 each forward, backward, square), 1/3 take-ons.

Davies: 37 touches, 24/34 (71%) passing (2/3 defensive third, 18/22 middle, 4/9 attacking, 12/20 forward, 7/7 backward, 5/7 square, 2/3 headed), 1/1 take-ons, 3 ball recoveries. Defensively, 1/3 tackles (2 misses led to goals), 3 interceptions, 1 foul.

Sigurdsson: 30 touches, 1 shot (blocked), 1 chance created, 23/28 (82%) passing (4/5 defensive third, 13/15 middle, 6/8 attacking, 2/3 long, 9/14 forward, 8/8 backward, 6/6 square, 1/1 headed), 1/2 crosses, 0/1 corners, 1/3 take-ons, 12 ball recoveries. Defensively, 3/4 tackles, 3 interceptions, 2/2 clearances, 2 fouls.

Sidibe: 33 touches, 1 shot, 1 assist, 1 big chance created, 20/21 (95%) passing (6/6 defensive third, 9/10 middle, 5/5 attacking, 10/11 forward, 4/4 backward, 6/6 square, 2/2 headed), 2/6 crosses, 8 ball recoveries, dispossessed once. Defensively, 4/5 tackles, 3 interceptions, 2/2 clearances (1/1 headed), 1 blocked cross, 3 fouls.

Digne: 51 touches, 4 chances created (3 from corners), 15/29 (52%) passing (1/2 defensive third, 9/15 middle, 5/12 defensive, 1/5 long, 9/20 forward, 4/5 backward, 2/4 square, 2/6 headed), 3/8 crosses, 2/2 take-ons, 8 ball recoveries, dispossessed once. Defensively, 4/6 tackles, 4 interceptions, 3/3 clearances (1/1 headed), 1 foul.

Our passing out of the back was putrid; Holgate 10/16 (63%), Mina 18/28 (64%), Keane 15/19 (79%), Pickford 11/30 (37%). Almost 100% of the failed passes were forward; this is a huge problem because it basically gave the ball to Leicester no further than midfield. Pickford was 6/25 on long passes too, because we don't win aerial duels very much either.

From these numbers, I think it's pretty clear who had a good day, and who didn't.

Paul A Smith
292 Posted 02/12/2019 at 06:33:45
Davies was poor. Same v Norwich. His tank isn't there and the fact he was tired sums it up. Hes a 21 year old and should be full of energy but he is up against proper athletes. Gana was an athlete.
Chris Williamson
293 Posted 02/12/2019 at 06:35:08
Just caught a glance at the league table, the RS have got more points already than what we will probably end up with at the end of the season. Come Wednesday night it will be a 29 point difference, has there ever been such a chasm between the 2 clubs this early in the season ? Can’t even have any banter with the telly clapping fuckers anymore because we are that shit they don’t even bother and I have really got nothing to come back with. If there really is such thing as karma Tom Davies will shin one in at the kop end in the 97 th minute for the winner, but is this really really going to happen ? Well I have tried my best to cry it in
Graeme Beresford
294 Posted 02/12/2019 at 06:38:44
@mark Andersson 283

People like you are starting to do my head in. This is worrying and time for Everton to act. You think the championship is easy? Tell that to Derby, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Hull, and all the other teams who have gone down. It’s tougher, you will lose most of your players due to clauses in contracts and wanting to play top tier football. This is not what being an Evertonian is about.

Comments like this are more negative than the ones you are complaining about. The season has been a disaster from day one. An absolute disaster. For the first time ever I have decided to not even watch the derby on Wednesday, we are going to get rolled over by them clowns who on the flip side, have build a squad of winners and everything goes for them. We on the other hand have a squad of poor mentality players being poorly managed and we still don’t get the rub of the green with anything!

Also, poor management again from Silva in trying to bring on Bernard. He waited and waited and waited and during an injury to Sidibe had the opportunity to slow the game down even more yet Bernard continued to stand on the sideline. An absolute shit show every single week. I was hoping to wake up to a sky sports notification that he had gone, yet here we are, persisting with someone who just isn’t doing it.

Nitesh Kanchan
295 Posted 02/12/2019 at 06:43:22
Kean and Iwobi need to start every game, Marco needs to understand that.

Play Davies and Baningime as defensive midfielders, Iwobi as central attacking midfielder, with Bernard, Kean and Richarlison ahead in a 4-3-3 formation. Digne loves Bernard.

In the second half, when we mostly concede goals, bring Gordon for Bernard, Schneiderlein for Davies and go 4-2-2-2. Please, Marco, do this.

John Keating
296 Posted 02/12/2019 at 06:54:35
Apart from a few ultra optimists I think most were expecting a defeat yesterday.
However once going ahead had we managed the game we could well have got all 3 points. In fact at 1-1 good game management could have given us a much needed point.
Our game management is totally non existent, how many late goals have we given up the past 18 months?

Individual errors cost us the game, however, it would be wrong to highlight Holgate and Davies.
We are not in a relegation battle because of one game and because of Holgate and Davies. We are where we are simply because we have had an atrocious season.

People can point at injuries, non signings, selling players, VAR decisions, whatever they want, the fact is the management both this season and last has been pathetic in the extreme

Last season I thought we should give Silva 10 games this season, and that was before I saw the relatively easy start. What a complete disaster it has been. He should have gone weeks ago.
There would have been no guarantee binning him earlier would have improved our fortunes but based on what we have seen it would not have worsened it.

If we set up on Wednesday as we did yesterday we could get really embarrassed. Sitting back against the RS will do us as once we're broken, which we will be, it could be floodgates.

Regardless of the result, if he is still here, Thursday morning Silva has to go. It doesn't matter who comes in or when they come in, either a permanent or interim manager, Silva has to leave the Club.

We have to go 3 up top with Richie, DCL and Kean.
We cannot afford to play Sigi or Schneiderlin.
We have to at least give those bastards something to think about.

Gerry Ring
297 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:01:32
In fairness to Tom Davies, he’s been one of our best players in the last few months. He got overrun yesterday because he tried to stretch himself to cover gaps left by others. Regarding strikers,we need to stick with Kean up front to help get his confidence back.
John Keating
298 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:23:55
Gerry spot on
Davies was knackered due to the system and tactics
Also agree with Kean but we have to play him in a 2.
The lone striker does not fit anyone we have and why Silva will persist only with it is beyond belief
Tony Abrahams
299 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:29:12
Gerry I actually agree with you and Christy over James McCarthy, and we are definitely missing him now especially with some posters hoping young Benni, is going to be fit for Wednesday night.

If I was Davies, I’d have been fuming that Iwobi and Sigurdson were not either side of him when he dived in for the first goal. We were set up all wrong from Pickford’s clearance, “considering we were winning” but it’s easy to criticise any goal, and players who were playing this system for the first time this season, and who must be really kicking themselves this morning.

Will they be better for the experience, or will Liverpool over-run us with their front three, because Tom Davies was the only Everton midfielder who knew how to properly scrap yesterday, and regardless of ability that is what every player has got to be prepared to do at Anfield

Ernie Baywood
300 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:30:46
I might be being overly generous to Holgate here but hear me out.

Iheanacho gets played through - Holgate appeals looking in the direction of the linesman who has his flag up. His efforts after that are half hearted (or maybe just appeared that way).

The thing that gets me is that he didn't even really appeal. As soon as it hits the net he points straight at the linesman while looking at the ref and walks up the pitch.

I know the old adage is "play to the whistle" but linesmen have been told to keep their flag down and let VAR review it. If he raises his flag... that affects the game doesn't it?

Is it that different to Mina's goal being disallowed after a whistle? The defence kind of played on and VAR would have picked out that there was no foul.

Steve Croston
301 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:46:46
If anyone on here has ever been involved in an acrimonious breakup, then they will understand what I'm about to say next.
Everything about Marco Silva irritates me now. At the start, I found his broken English rather quaint, and could forgive his lack of fluency due to him being a newcomer at our wonderful club. Now, every interview pisses me off to the point that I want to throw my laptop/TV through the window. The way he stands on the touchline, hand to chin, as if he is carefully contemplating a Kasperov-like tactical change or substitution, drives me absolutely insane with rage. He is thinking nothing of the kind. Even his stupid little pointy nose annoys me. So, it's time for us to move on Marco, before we both say or do something we'll regret etc etc Let's think of the kids; Tom, Mason and Moise deserve better. You can keep the house and DVD collection, just leave. Please, please, please go away, because you're making me hate watching the only thing that has consistently brought me joy throughout my life. You are the worst manager I've ever seen at Everton (Allardyce included) and we don't love you anymore.
Apart from that, life's great!
Derek Knox
302 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:53:05
John Keating, I have always advocated that the lone striker situation just doesn't work in our present set-up and with our current personnel.

Yet, unbelievably almost, Silva persists with it, another sign of stubbornness and incompetence in my view. He failed too, in that after the break, Rodgers introduced Iheanacho to compliment Vardy up front, at appoint when we were still holding on to a narrow lead.

Silva did not make the timely and necessary changes to counter that, he brings on the most negative player, who has serial loser in his DNA on, and Kean who should have been brought on earlier or indeed played from the start.

I just hope and pray someone at Board Level makes the initiative to get rid of this spineless, clueless clown before we reach that point of no return.

We are perilously close to it but I truly believe with the correct appointment, we just about have the personnel and enough games left to prevent the inevitable, but the clock is most definitely ticking and it's getting louder.

Graeme Beresford
303 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:06:16
Earnie @ 300

You make an interesting point if the linesman raises his flag then instinct as a defender will be to raise your hand, slow down, notice it’s offside, so in essence you’re right, it does affect the game.

If the linesman keeps his flag down then the game continues. Very interesting argument for and against. Maybe this is a rule the FA should look at. If the linesman raised his flag then the game shouldn’t continue. If it’s linesman mistake then it’s a mistake. To be fair with VAR now the linesman role is basically dead anyway. Maybe get rid all together. The game is changing so much though.

Joe McMahon
304 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:13:51
Derek @302, it didn't really work for Moyes either, but we had to endure endure 11 yaers of it. Andy Johnson running towards the corner flag to try and cross to nobody.

Everton squad has so liitle options anyway, unless some big manager accepts the task i'd rather stick with Silva. There is no guarantee Unsworth or Moyes would keep us up anyway.

I liken our situation to Sunderland (without the stadium), Martin O Neal paid huge amounts for average players and high wages, 3 mangers later Moyes added to the existing crap and relagated them.

In our sitation Koeman/Walsh paid huge amounts for average players and high wages, we are still paying the price for having 25 million Micheal Keane, Bolasie et al. Soem sold at a loss. Not the way a sound football club is to be run.

Gerry Ring
305 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:24:52
Steve 301 Why don’t you really say what you’re thinking 😂😂
Steve Croston
306 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:32:28
Gerry 305... It was the only valid comparison I could make. Does he annoy you? I went on the BBC website this morning, and there was a still picture of him at the start of one of his nonsensical interviews and I tried to attack my monitor, that's how bad it's got. 😭😭😭
George Carroll
307 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:36:15
For goodness sake, we played the 2nd in the League, we have a dressing room full of injured players, and without doubt we have been treated badly by VAR. So, for once, Evertonians, let's get behind our team. Let's stop witch-hunting every time we get a manager, be positive for once.
Derek Knox
308 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:44:23
Joe @304, with all due respect sticking with Silva will only see us guaranteed to be in the Championship next season. Which is arguably the most difficult league to get out of, and back to the Premiership.

Add to that the loss of revenue from TV, players who have ' clauses in their contract ' that only apply as long as they are still in the Premiership.

Many fans will walk too, all in all, a disastrous situation, if we stick with this clueless, out of his depth, clown.

Someone has to get realistic and save our once wonderful Club, who has a fanbase that they recently don't merit or deserve.

Steve Croston
309 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:57:57
George Carol 307... We get behind our team every game. The best away fans in the league. It's after the game that the complaints start, and I think we're perfectly entitled to do so at the moment. Yes, we played okay in patches against Leicester, but that has been an exception and not the rule.
Please name one, just one thing, that we have to be positive about.
Mike Doyle
310 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:03:29
George #307] I don't think anyone is questioning the efforts of the players. But let's be honest as soon as it went to 1-1 most of us expected that we'd lose (well I did).
Silva certainly didn't help by changing a formation that had performed pretty well to that point. Losing one from midfield handed the initiative to Leicester - and they took it.
Leicester were struggling last year. But yesterday shows what Brendan Rogers coach has achieved with essentially the same group of players.
Silva will pay the price, but Brands must share some of the responsibility.
Rudi Coote
311 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:08:16
Mark @283,

I've got to agree with you there. So much doom and gloom. Slagging off players seems to be a pastime. But it's what you can expect from most of the posters here. Makes you wonder, if we were successful (remember those days?) what would they have to write about?

It's not easy getting out of the Championship, so I don't want us to go down, but it's on the cards and Liverpool will win the title, annoying as it is, seeing as Everton FC will be relegated.

It's hard to be positive with this load of fraudsters. Looks like my birthday will be ruined on Wednesday. But so what.

Paul A Smith
312 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:09:15
Davies was tired because of formation and tactics. That is just pure comedy that.

How much hate does it take to become that way of thinking?

The next manager has this squad. It might just hit people then.

Derek Knox
313 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:10:12
Steve, spot on there mate, the only consistency that there has been recently and as far back as I can remember, is the fan base, who have supported through thick and thin times.

It is only to be expected and warranted in my view that fans in general have the right to question the attitude of the players and the incompetence of this current Manager.

They have honoured their part of the relationship, and are considered to be amongst the best in the Country, only to be let down time and time again.

Well the time has come for action otherwise we could easily go the way of Leeds and other big Clubs that have made mistakes thinking they were immune from the drop.

Ken Kneale
314 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:47:43
Steve, correct at 309 – we have been loyal beyond belief for 30 years of hurt.

On your other problem – have you tried RELATE?

John Hammond
315 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:02:51
Re James McCarthy: How can we be missing a player who never played??
Jim Wilson
316 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:24:34
McCarthy is now fit and would be playing. He was one of our better players. We are undoubtedly missing him, as we are Jagielka and Baines.
Steve Croston
317 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:31:09
Ken 314...

Haha, this made me chuckle.

My "other" problem is LONG solved, I was referring to a long past girlfriend, whose memory, for one reason or another, prompted me to write my first message. I'm happily (!?!) married now. 😁

George Carroll
318 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:39:59
If it's 'loyalty' to spew out some of the vitriol against players and managers that so-called Evertonians are indulging in, then my 80 years of support of Everton has been misguided as I obviously don't understand the meaning of 'loyalty'.
Ken Kneale
319 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:06:25
Steve, glad to hear it – you need a shoulder to cry on supporting this lot!!

George, well done on such long support – you (as I) have seen better times. I don't think it is fair to offer criticism to those who desire the club to return to such heights and most of us are sick to the back teeth of the dysfunctional behaviour of this club on and off the field.

No wonder feelings run high on TW threads – it is simply the flip-side of the passion coin.

John Hammond
320 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:28:09
Jim #316: I'd say a decent player 2013-16 but utterly unreliable in terms of fitness. Made perfect sense to sell him to Palace where he's averaged 17 minutes a game. Guaranteed had he played more he'd be crocked.
Steve Carse
321 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:30:03
Ernie (300), I'm with you on this one and am surprised the issue has not been a point of discussion.

Adding to your point about the distraction to a player once he sees the flag go up, my question is: Why didn't the ref blow up once he saw the flag raised? I'd guess that this was the only occasion in the whole game when the offside flag was ignored, and it was raised a good few seconds before the ball hit the net, in which case, the ref could have halted play before any controversy arose (something else that refs are advised to do these days).

Not questioning the ultimate awarding of the goal, just highlighting refereeing inconsistencies.

Joe Bibb
322 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:31:42
Dominic Calvert-Lewin + Tom Davies = Relegation
Brent Stephens
323 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:43:32
Ernie #300 and Steve #321 make a good point. Steve says "My question is why didn't the ref blow up once he saw the flag raised."

Am I wrong in saying that, when a linesman (that's all they are these days, despite the grand title) spots an offence like offside, they not only flag but also trigger an audio signal to the ref? If so, there would be no excuse for the ref not stopping play immediately?

George Carroll
325 Posted 02/12/2019 at 13:08:15
Ken (319), I fully accept the right to criticise. What I find abhorrent is the vitriol that players and managers are subject to.

Far better to have sensible discussion, like Ernie, Steve and Brent. We all saw that Tom Davies lost vital possession but please do not hang the boy out to dry.

Mark Guglielmo
326 Posted 02/12/2019 at 13:42:14
Tony @299 hey there, defending Davies is fine, he's been for the most part a great help for us when he wasn't expected to be. Yesterday was poor but honestly it happens. My question is why you would think he should be fuming that Iwobi wasn't next to him to bail him out? Iwobi played right wing in a front 3 yesterday; expecting him to be back at midfield on the left side of the park is kind of weird, no? All you'd have you do is look at his heat map to realize he spent 0 time over there. Richarlison or DCL maybe.

Joe Bibb @322 you left out + Sigurdsson + Schneiderlin + Tosun + Walcott.

Unfortunately we don't have anyone to replace them. Ironically because what we're paying them is preventing us from having a much bigger bank account with which to buy better replacements.

Bill Gall
327 Posted 02/12/2019 at 14:58:32
Lets stop criticizing Silva and certain players for yesterday's game. The reason we are in this mess is not yesterday, it started with a poor preseason. both in preparation and efforts in the transfer market. The 2 major problems, no striker signed to replace Lukaku, chasing for a central defender the whole transfer window that was not for sale.

Starting from day 1 of the new season we have played in 14 premier league games only scored 14 goals and have 22 scored against us. We started with a reasonable set of fixtures and this is were we started the downhill trend.

The manager has proven over these 14 games that his game management has been inferior to that of his opponents and this is why we are in this mess. Yesterday was simply a mirror image of the other defeats we have had, where the game was lost through poor game management.

The problem today is there are other clubs looking for a manager so we are not in the driving seat if we fire Silva. the best scenario is to get in a temporary manager in until the end of the season. The problem in that is most of the managers mentioned as a successor to Silva will want long term contracts, so the next hiring has to be the rite one.

So lets stop complaining about certain players yesterday, they never asked but wanted to play, the person who played them was the manager and he is the one that should be held responsible for any successes,and especially for the failures over the last 14 games not just yesterday.

Paul A Smith
328 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:19:06
Bill, great post mate. I am also one of those people who gets concerned by what kind of squad the manager has. What quality, what dominance, what threat etc etc.

I realise now that is a very odd thing to be concerned about at your football club and I apologise to all those offended that I questioned Brands an Moshiri but I feel it is my club, not theirs.

Like someone said to me today, fans are asking questions and 2 years after losing Lukaku, we still have Lewin up front and it has got worse, Gana Zouma etc. What do people expect. God knows was my reply.

Anyone who went to the shareholders meeting and listened (rather than question these conmen) should have known there was no intention to buy a striker.

What proper club offers a manager that?

Tony Hill
329 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:26:22
It is indeed an inexcusable failure to be without a goalscorer. There is no comparably toothless side in the Premier League. It invites failure and that is what is happening; we are fortunate that it hasn't happened sooner.

We need a Kevin Campbell.

Soren Moyer
330 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:45:23
Ffs! Its Benitez time. Forget Howe, Moyes, Ferguson, etc. Just get him. He'll sort the team out.
Tony Abrahams
331 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:49:26
Mark@326, you use heat maps I use my eyes mate. I didn’t want Iwobi on the left, I wanted him to the right of Davies, and when Tom dived in this is where the ball first went before it then went left.

Sibide was pushed up to far, Iwobi should have pulled him back, or went inside to help his midfield partner, and either one would have given us both so much more organisation and therefore a much better defensive shape to begin with?

We were winning one nil, away to second in the league, just a week after losing to the bottom team, but whereas Norwich knew how to waste time and make things difficult, Everton have no such orders throughout the team, and it was this lack of professionalism that cost us dearly yesterday.

Stick to those heat mats though Mark, because it’s absolutely fucking freezing at the minute!

Graham Coldron
332 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:57:54
If Benitez is appointed he will bring Rondon with him.
Mike Connolly
333 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:10:32
WTF Tom Davies got tired with all the running about. Well he did not stick any tackles in or create any chance. Reid and Bracewell must be gutted watching that. If Tom Davies running epitomises his game. Lets get Mo Farrah and Bolt in. They cant control the ball either but they have more pace. As you can see I'm guttered. Just what do they do at Finch Farm
Derek Knox
334 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:14:18
Everyone keeps saying we need a striker, well, we have one and he won't play him, he was scoring for previous Club and Country, and yet Silva doesn't think he is good enough for (a non-scoring on a regular basis) Everton.

No wonder the kid is low on confidence, anyone would be, coming to a different Country, different set-up, different League, with a certain amount of expectation on his shoulders.

Yet the genius of a Manager (not) we are lumbered with doesn't play him;- unbelievable! But sadly true.

James Hughes
335 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:25:56
Mike, you can't really use Reid or Bracewell as a comparison. The game was much slower when they were in their pomp.

They could also put in a few tackles that would now see them off the pitch quite early.

Peter Reid was great player and we could really use his leadership, but I think he would be too slow to cut it at the top level right now.

John G Davies
336 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:28:49
Tony Abrahams,

The problem I had with their first goal is Tom didn't dive in.
A supposed ball winning midfielder threw a half hearted foot in to try to win the ball.

They broke off him, Keanes feet were to slow to stop the cross, Holgate ball watched while his man broke off him and that was that.

Raymond Fox
337 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:30:41
We'll never get to the top table if we sell our best players.
Add to that we cant attract elite players.
Tony Hill
338 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:36:52
Derek, @334 he's not the man we need now. We need someone who will notch goals to save our skin, someone canny and experienced.

Young Kean is very raw, you can see it in his movement and touch and it isn't because of insufficient game time.

Dave Williams
339 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:41:48
The problem we had yesterday will kill us on Wednesday if Silva does not change it.
By playing a back five there was too big a gap between the defence and midfield and with Siggi turning in yet another anonymous performance it left Tom on his own against probably the best midfield three on current form in the country. Tom does play some loose passes and was punished for them by Leicester but this will happen if he has no one close enough to help him. We must revert to a five man midfield as RS will murder us if we leave space between the defence and midfield. We constantly looked like conceding a penalty because of the number of times a player was chasing a Leicester man who was running at the defence and how we avoided being penalised for trying to tackle from behind I do not know.
Basically we played with ten men and did pretty well until Tom ran out of gas. We won’t out pass RS without Gomes so if Beni is fit I would play him and if not then Adeniran who is powerful and works very hard. Ok he is a novice but we need players to fill space and work hard not expensive buys who either don’t try or just haven’t got it in them any more. Let Moise and Richi have a go at their defence, play Bernard wide left and Iwobi number ten. Make those horrible arrogant people at Anfield at least know they were in a game.
Dave Williams
340 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:54:51
Joe #322 and others- why blame the young lads? The players letting us down and landing us in this position are most of the big buys who either aren’t bothered or are playing poorly and should be replaced.
Siggy £45m, Schneiderlin £25m, Keane £30m,Tosun £27m, Walcott £20m- blame them not young lads who are getting no support from the so called “ senior professionals”. It’s the young lads who will dig us out of this mess if anyone can so try encouraging them.
Brian Porter
341 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:55:20
Now we're told Silva will stil be here for the Derby. As far as I'm concerned the board can all take a running jump head first into the Mersey, blindfolded and with their hands tied behind their backs.

Keeping Silva for even one more hour is tantamount to criminal negligence while being responsible for a multi-million pound business.

Championship here we come. Thanks for nothing Farhad. All you've bought us is failure of epic proportions, cleverly disguised as a fake football manager.

Charles McCann
342 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:58:52
That’s an excellent post Dave 339. Agree with everything you’ve said there. Unfortunately I’m not sure Silva can see what your seeing! Expect to see more of Sneiderlinn and siggy on Wednesday night God help us!
Terry White
343 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:34:52
John (#320), to confirm your stat, McCarthy has started 1 game for CP and been on the bench 8 times. That is where he was on Saturday and did not get on the pitch.

I do not understand the "McCarthy should not have been sold" obsession. When we sold him he was probably number 5 or 6 in the midfield pecking order, behind our 3 now injured players, Gomes, Gbamin and Delph, and at least Davies and Schneiderlin, so why shouldn't he have been sold to a club that maybe would give him a regular game but, as it happens, they have not as apparently they do not consider him good enough for a regular spot in their first XI. He would have been on our bench also at best as nobody could have foreseen the midfield injuries we have sustained.

Phil Greenough
344 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:35:56
Bryan, this question has been posted several times. Why throw the new manager under the bus, by putting him in charge of the Derby, where Everton will may probably lose? Let's give him a chance with the games we may get something out of.
Paul A Smith
345 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:45:44
Allardyce to Watford. God we might be screwed if we don't make drastic moves to improve.

The McCarthy shout is just one of a load of nonsense shouts throughout this mess Tony.

Composure went ages ago. They wanted Davies in to inject some energy. Now he is tired already. Head in hands time.

Terry White
346 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:49:17
A couple of points from other comments on this thread.

1. Sigurdsson should have fouled the runner resulting in their 2nd goal. Well, he already had a yellow card so any action to stop the runner would have resulted in a red card. Is that what we wanted? Some will say that it would not be a bad thing to have him suspended but it is asking a lot of a professional footballer to "take one for the team" by getting himself sent off especially as there were defenders in position with the possibility of doing their job and stopping the shot,

2. "We should not have let Zouma go". Where does this come from? Can someone who feels this way explain how we could have kept him returning to Chelsea? We may not have fully replaced him, agreed, but Mina is not to blame as he is doing a adequate job in my opinion.

Mark Guglielmo
347 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:50:19
Tony @331 I could use a heat map myself right now, it's snowing and we're supposed to get 6"!

Ok, so I completely get what you're saying from a player positional sense, and had we been back on defense at that point, I'd agree with you. But you have to remember that we were already on the attack at that point, which means that both Sidibe and Iwobi were already past the point of the missed tackle, and closer to their side of the park (the right), downfield as they should have been in our attacking 3-4-3.

I re-watched the play a few times on YouTube, and it basically unfolded with Ndidi heading the pass to Maddison, which was where Tom lost the 50/50. This allowed Ndidi to recover and break lightning quick down the middle. When Ndidi made that header, Iwobi was already a good solid 7-8 yards behind him. It happened so fast, no human, not even professional athletes, can go from one direction to the other that quickly, especially morphing into our defending 5-4-1. To Sidibe's credit, he hauled ass - a scientific measure of speed ;-) - to attempt to chase Ndidi down but there wasn't anything he could do either. Basically, that 5-4-1 had no chance of developing. Sigurdsson was right there though, and as you mentioned, didn't do much of anything except watch the play unfold, and after viewing again, is really the only player who could have done anything to help. If anyone should have been covering the left flank (switching directions with Leicester on attack), it was Holgate, who seemed unconcerned with Vardy creating a ton of space to his left as well as unaware that he wasn't going to have Sidibe next to him.

I don't disagree with you that it's unfair to put it all on Davies, I'm just saying that assigning blame to either/or/both Sidibe & Iwobi is equally unfair.

Paul A Smith
348 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:57:10
Just because Davies played grim doesn't mean 'he gets all the blame'.
It just goes to show it was inevitable because he has never shown a great run of form since he started out.

He has had good moments and some poor moments. The exact thing you expect from a youngster that isn't being talked about as a superstar.

All the reasons you don't rely on a youngster in such an important position.

In an ideal world he is surrounded by capable players that can handle 90 mins regular and show some confidence.

It was ridiculous to expect any great change of strategy with a boy dictating our midfield.

Derek Cowell
349 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:03:34
Big Sam to Watford? That will be Tony Pullis to us then haha!!
Bobby Mallon
350 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:09:14
We made a massive mistake getting rid of Rooney. I don’t care about his misdemeanours, he scored goals, defenders where scared of him And he would have been the captain we are crying out for
Paul A Smith
351 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:09:30
Last season we drew at Chelsea and Spurs, Pickford threw a draw away at Anfield, beat Man U Arsenal and Chelsea at home, and drew with the shite.
We also beat Leicester away.
When was the last time we took that many points from them sides? And there is the cheek to question his tactics. Like fans know tactics.

Tactics will always be tougher to pull off with worse players in them same fixtures.

Bobby Mallen too right mate. Leading scorer sold again. We seem totally against leading scorers haha.

Bobby Mallon
352 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:11:34
If we don’t get a top manager in now then Watford will overtake us and ( I truly hope not ) we may go down.
Paul Tran
353 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:14:28
Come on Tony #331, I've just got to Oldham and it's mild compared to the Highlands.

Hope our lads are tougher on Wednesday!

Tony Abrahams
354 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:34:34
It's roasting in Liverpool, Paul, just like it's roasting on T/W, with some people even mentioning that Schniederlin was ahead of McCarthy, which is obviously another sackable offence, for the two who signed Morgan, and gave him such a hugh contract.

I can't and shouldn't debate with people who have got the intelligence to watch things over and over again, because Mark, is right, no human being not even professional athletes can go from one direction to another so quickly, and this is why I might suggest why a professional footballers starting position is so important, because even half a yard is very difficult to make up in such a fast sport.

Paul A Smith
355 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:43:57
Tony, starting position is everything mate you are on point there.

When people used to say Glen Johnson should play right wing because he is good going forward and can't defend, I would argue it wouldn't work if he started right wing.

His starting position from some of the great runs he made had to be from deep, where it would start with him not being doubled up on and he could see more space in front of him.

No manager would have ever fell for the pundits calls by making him a Right Winger.
And why change a good thing anyway? Just put a good right winger in front of him.

I think its also why a lot of managers play younger players out wide to start with, they get more space and time to build confidence up.

Robert Williams
356 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:45:33
Forget the new stadium - use the money to get a TOP manager and spend on the team. Get rid of ALL the deadwood including those on the training staff AND most importantly get rid of Kenwright, the man is well past his sell by date.
Pick up the pieces of the new stadium AFTER we have secured top six place.
Tony Abrahams
357 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:52:26
Paul A@351, you talk a lot of sense, but that was last season, and with not many who haven't questioned Silva's tactics this season, it shows me that loads of fans actually do understand tactics, and their team. of course it's going to be more difficult with worse players, but you can't tell me that Silva, could not have done more with his squad so far this season mate, considering our results against the also-rans, that we have played against so far?
Paul Tran
358 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:05:10
You're right, Tony. The players deserve criticism, but this is not a 17th place squad. He isn't getting the best out of them. I can't see him getting the best out of them.
John G Davies
359 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:12:06
Paul, Tony.

Too right the players deserve criticism. I can't recall one battle we have won this season.

The right to play has to be won by dogged determination, hard work and commitment. We have none of the above.

Team spirit does not guarantee success; no team spirit guarantees failure.

Tony Abrahams
360 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:18:13
One more cup of coffee before he goes, I just hope he bows out with a victory!
John Kavanagh
361 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:21:11
RS away in the FA Cup. Our season gets better with every day.
Paul A Smith
362 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:22:09
Seen the draw. Haha. He might not be here by then but show me a moment of luck in Silva's reign.

Only Everton.

Tony, my point is we don't know what the instructions are in wins or defeats. I look at the red shite and they seem to have the most important traits. Fitness and desire. Plus Klopp buys pure athletes carefully.

You could explain to me an instance of tactics like where the full backs do something but anyone could argue the players aren't good enough to pull it off. Last years players were.

I fail to see how players putting effort in (like all seemed to agree yesterday) how he can get more from them.

All i see is they are not good enough mate.

John Kavanagh
363 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:24:36
At least we won't have any cup distractions in our relegation fight.
Tony Abrahams
364 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:30:07
Some people might say Silva, used up all his luck when he got the Everton job!
Tony Abrahams
365 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:59:21
Fair enough Paul A, but confidence is also very, very low, and I haven’t saw anything off the manager to change that this season.

Paul A Smith
366 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:20:49
Tony haha I knew someone would come back with that. Even his biggest critics must see the bad luck though mate it keeps rolling.

He'll be out by that fixture I suspect but in the pure shock of a victory on Wednseday, what would happen?

Mike Connolly
367 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:25:23
Some people have an obsession about not picking on the youngsters. We were still calling Barkley a youngster when he should have been in his prime. we still hear now put so and so in from Unsworth team. Truth is they are not good enough Fleetwood proved that to us. The club is rotten to the core
Tony Abrahams
368 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:38:25
Paul, you knew someone would come back with that because it’s something you can see yourself! (Not my shite joke mate, my point about not instilling any confidence)

If he wins at Anfield, then I’d still sack him because he just doesn’t seem to understand pragmatism and we are a very pragmatic club?

I hope I’m wrong, I hope he stays and turns it around, but I think he’s sulked instead of trying to get the best out of what he’s got, and football is not like a tap, which you can just turn on and off when you feel like it imo.

Richard Mason
369 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:45:00
Pochettino has come out and said he wants to get back into managing straight away and is open to offers of all projects. 🤔. I just don't understand why we wouldn't approach him and throw a serious offer on the table.
Paul A Smith
370 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:46:16
I think his time is up for various reasons but I won't forget we built a very good side last season that looked on the up before it broke up and quality is reduced.

I didn't like Koeman but I wouldn't pretend his first summer he never wanted Depay, Witsel, Koulibaly, top names and ended up with half a team from the bottom half of the division.

Signing the best of the bottom half and its got me frustrated as to why people wonder why we have gone backwards.

Tony Abrahams
372 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:04:45
Again Paul, I’m sure I could sign loads of players from the lower teams and still make a very good team? It’s all about recruitment and in the four years that Moshiri has been at the club, then a lot of it has not been good enough, and this was definitely the case last summer, which I know is one of your biggest points, and something I couldn’t disagree with.
Paul A Smith
373 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:24:41
Tony its just frustration mate. Recruitment is obviously massive to improvement.

To keep my views on Silva as simple as possible. I don't believe his best 11 this season is as good as last seasons.

People may see that different somehow but fair enough if you do.

Therefore I don't bother trying to discover tactical issues when I believe personel is weaker.

Like I said above we took 16 points from home and away points v the shite, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

Did Moyes achieve that in 11 years? The tactics seem fine to me if the personel is up to it.

Tony Abrahams
374 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:38:31
It’s a very good point Paul, and it does make me think, but I keep going back to pragmatism, keep thinking it’s easy when it’s easy, and also wonder why he keeps playing people like Morgan Schniederlin, when we’ve seen more life in an urgent note.

He keeps going with what he knows, even when he knows the personal are not quite good enough, and although some people might be able to put up an argument to defend this, football is about winning games, and this is were I’d shoot that argument down.

John P McFarlane
375 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:44:19
Tony #374 A special trophy has been awarded at tonight's Ballon D'or ceremony - Morgan Schneiderlin is the European Hide and Seek winner for the fifth year in a row.
Mike Doyle
376 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:50:26
John #375] who won the “hiding in plain sight” award?. the entire Everton 1st team coaching group?
Paul Tran
377 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:54:04
My take on football is that it is essentially a simple game, on top of which goes the fine details. The issue I have with Silva is that he does the fine details, without doing the basics first. We often appeared disorganised, with parts of the team looking isolated from the rest of the it.

Paul A Smith
378 Posted 02/12/2019 at 22:03:37
Schniederlin is dreadful Tony. Another thing nobody would listen to when we signed him.

He was called a rolls royce at one stage. My word.

Why he picks him over Davies at times I believe its because he is stronger and tiny details outbalance what he trusts in Davies naivity.

I don't think he likes or wants Schneiderlin, he wanted Dacoure didn't he. A strong athlete.

Now there is shouts that Davies was tired yesterday, what a load of it. He could be as fit as possible and 9 times out of 10 Ndidi wins any battle with him.

Its crazy how we don't see the compromise with developing players.

There is some calls for Benigime now. I just can't believe how as a fanbase we cannot see these ideas don't add up.

How can there be calls for a youth player that looked out of depth last time around combined with expectations for the manager to get better from players?

Thats somewhere near insanity and I thought my frustration was unhealthy.

Mark Guglielmo
379 Posted 03/12/2019 at 00:14:55
Paul, I've seen you bring up Doucoure (that's how his name is spelled, btw) a few times. Do you rate him, or just mention him because Silva wanted him? Watford's price was steep; in the vicinity of £45m if memory serves.
Derek Knox
380 Posted 03/12/2019 at 00:40:23
Mark @ 379, yes you are right, to the best of our (as fans) knowledge that was Silva's intended target and although WE, as mere long suffering supporters, will never really know what was on the table, I suspect it is pretty close.

This is what really truly pisses me off, hypothetically, let's just say the Board had granted his wishes and coughed up the inflated sum, would he have improved us?

Again, hypothetically, although one man does not make a team tick, has he been that good, Watford have improved?. ………………………………………… No!

Again hypothetically, assuming the Board had bought him would he have improved us?

Personally I believe it would have not made a scrap of difference, only my very humble opinion by the way.

I can to a very large degree understand, why the aforementioned Board has/had not acceded to his wishes.

The next Manager possibly would not see him as a pivotal figure, and either not play him or sell him on for half the price.

Silva, in my opinion is the weakest Manager I have ever come across at Everton. Why the fuck was he head-hunted?

Double barrelled Human Canon required ( that can reach beyond the moon) load Silva and Schneiderlin, and set it into motion.

This would not only serve as a lesson to any other nee'rdowells but rid our Club of the root problem.

Mark Guglielmo
381 Posted 03/12/2019 at 00:44:11
Derek that's what I was driving at. He's a good player, don't get me wrong, but he's a good £25m piece, not a near-double £££ player to build a midfield around. I suspect he looks good because no one else at Watford does lol.

Oh, and I wasn't disputing whether or not we did look at him; I know we did. Just that when someone brings him up multiple times it seems like the person who does is in favor of him.

Derek Knox
382 Posted 03/12/2019 at 01:23:40
Mark, fully understand, I am very interested in the Club's History, having supported them for what is, approaching 60 years, and sincerely hope that both of the previous two, fit into that category in the not too distant future!
Paul A Smith
384 Posted 03/12/2019 at 06:24:17
Mark, sometimes its about reading between the lines. Dacoure isn't great but he is closer to the player you need Davies to be and what most managers want in midfield.

Big, strong, athletic and won't be bullied or dominated. Teams tick better when the attributes are better.

Tony Abrahams
385 Posted 03/12/2019 at 07:39:41
Is It Possible that Dacure has sulked when he never got his move to Everton, Another talent who sulks when he doesn't get his own way?

Paul A Smith
386 Posted 03/12/2019 at 09:21:18
Tony it looks like the whole of Watford is sulking. Forget the name anyway mate. What matters is the type.

This is my whole point on the Davies debate and I hate to say but it is spot on.

Look around the top sides. Power in midfield. Dacoure could have been down the list of targets and budget brought us to his name but he has what is needed to an extent.

Obviously skill and better attributes take us back up the prices but if people can't see why Dacoure or the likes are better equipped than Davies right now, I don't know why they'd bother with football.

Conor McCourt
387 Posted 03/12/2019 at 10:30:51
Derek I'm really surprised that you especially don't believe Doucoure would made have one bit of difference. Silva reading between the lines knew he couldn't replace Gueye individually but what he wanted to do was strengthen the entire area.

He said during the summer that Schneiderlin wasn't part of his plans and hence wanted the three of Gomes, Doucoure and Gbamin to replace Gueye Mac and Scneids.

You have continually discredited Morgan on here and many believe that he is the managers favourite. In truth it's a case of not having suitable alternatives rightly or wrongly whom the manager believes have the attributes for that role.

Brands brought in Gomes and Delph who are injury prone hence when Gbamin suffered his bad injury then our reliance on Morgan. Doucoure would have been excellent for us as he can play all three midfield roles and has energy and dynamism that we have lost since Gueye.

I'm not saying he's my choice or he is worth the money but you either back the manager or sack him and don't handcuff him. If they didn't trust Silvas judgement in the area where we most needed then not a wonder the spine of our team is so weak.

Personally I think we would be a different team with that signing. For starters we would be beginning games with an extra player and one who can do the job asked.

Paul A Smith
388 Posted 03/12/2019 at 10:56:27
Spot on Conor.
Steve Ferns
389 Posted 03/12/2019 at 11:16:33
Morgan Schneiderlin was clearly out of favour. The batting order for the two deeper midfield spots seemed to be Gbamin, Gomes and Delph, with Schniderlin and Davies in reserve. I think Doucoure was wanted so Silva could have had 4 decent central midfielders to allow him to switch to his preferred 433. That he hasn't shows you he does not think we have the players to do it. He's been without a Zouma all season and we still have not signed a decent striker. None of these problems are fixed by sacking Silva.
Paul A Smith
390 Posted 03/12/2019 at 11:19:27
Again Steve spot on. I my whole time on ToffeeWeb I have never seen 2 consistant posts in the bounce and 2 I agree with.

I do appreciate reading the posts with perspective though. It gives me hope.

Steve Ferns
391 Posted 03/12/2019 at 11:32:44
Paul, it's ridiculous. Go back to before he coached any of the players for the first time and he was saying this to the Post & Echo: Link

"4-3-3 is my system, depending on my number six."


"If we play Schneiderlin, he is a player who likes to play more alone which gives more freedom to the other two midfielders and this is the system I use more"

These are the two comments that stand out for me. Schniederlin behind two other midfielders in a 433. But we have not seen this at all. Not from the start in any game. That Silva went straight for 4231 in pre-season and never tried the 433 tells you that once he started coaching Schneiderlin he knew that he could not play him in the 433.

The next manager will have to play Schniederlin as well. Gomes, Gbamin and Delph are all injured. Even Baningime is injured. There's no one else. Schniederlin will still be here next season too, he will still be one of our top earners and he will still get games as a result. Same with Sigurdsson. We're stuck with them and we cannot just get rid of them.

Paul A Smith
392 Posted 03/12/2019 at 11:41:19
I see it mate and its very easy to work out Steve.
Lets be real here. Fans don't rate or want Schneiderlin but think professional coaches do? I mean ideally.

Rock and a hard place Steve.

Conor McCourt
393 Posted 03/12/2019 at 12:05:36
Steve I'm not sure I agree with you regarding us being stuck with Morgan. He himself during the summer raised the prospect that he might be looking at a new challenge.

I feel the Doucoure deal was crucial. His game time would have been so limited that the Turkish links seemed plausible. I think considering he had only Gbamin (may not adapt) and Delph(injury prone) as his competitors allied to the fact that neither Silva nor the club wanted him to go unless we bagged Doucoure meant he was destined to stay.

Tony Abrahams
394 Posted 03/12/2019 at 12:09:23
I’m not sure that I agree with Steve, that the next manager will play Schneiderlin, Conor, because I can’t agree with Paul A’s question, that professional coaches might rate him either, but I’m obviously only going off watching him amble round the pitch in a blue shirt, even when he comes on as a late sub.
Paul A Smith
395 Posted 03/12/2019 at 13:12:58
Tony, every manager wants the best player don't they? I assume they do.
I think Silva wants Pogba or De Bruyne but he has got Schneiderlin.

He has to work with what he has if there is no great player there.
Lets just stick to reality, Gomes and Gbamin are fit, he doesn't play does he.

Its simple maths equations. If they are fit then he doesn't play Schneiderlin because we bought Delph.

It feels crazy explaining this because Schnide ability almost joined Besiktas.

Conor McCourt
396 Posted 03/12/2019 at 13:22:35
Tony in fairness our last 3 permanent coaches have played him. This is what pisses me off so much in the summer that the hierarchy knew we were losing our best defensive midfielder and the coach had little faith in Scneiderlin and still didn't get him his men.

The problem in fairness to Schneiderlin is that he has never been a defensive midfielder and hasn't the tools for the job. He was a box to box player at Southampton with his athleticism, technique and late running into the box his main attributes. Since his legs have gone he has been given that role first by Koeman purely because he can do no others.

He doesn't read the game very well, isn't aggressive and isn't a great tackler. He relies on his experience and strength to make him an option there. Whether another coach will consider him will depend on options as not many will want our centre halves to be exposed.

Tony Abrahams
397 Posted 03/12/2019 at 14:22:25
Paul A, read my posts mate because I always try and stick to reality when discussing football and football players.

If explaining something makes you feel crazy Paul, why does it make you feel that way?

He almost went to Besiktas, so that makes him a good player? The pro’s have got it right and the fans have got it wrong? I wouldn’t ever play Morgan Schniderlin for Everton, which is also a very simple equation to make, because he adds nothing to the team, and looks like he would sooner be somewhere else, and maybe if I had a professional relationship with the player I would be able to understand why?

Steve Ferns
398 Posted 03/12/2019 at 14:32:38
Morgan Schniederlin is on over £100,000 per week. Who is going to sign him? What club in Europe is going to pay that? No one in France other than PSG. Turkish clubs don't pay those wages. Those that can afford him don't want him. And the player himself take a paycut? No chance.

Silva has tried to sideline him, but injuries meant he got back in. He's like a bad smell that won't go away. That he has been a good player in the past only makes it the more infuriating.

Mark Guglielmo
399 Posted 03/12/2019 at 15:23:57
Paul @384 his name is spelled Doucoure. I can infer from your answer that you do rate him but you didn't say if you £45m rate him. Do you?

And Conor, my old (about a week lol) nemesis, @387 you suggest that Brands "either support the manager [by giving him what he wants]," or sack him. Are those three only two options? Despite stating that Doucoure wouldn't be your choice, are you saying that Brands should have signed him anyway simply because Silva wanted him? Struggling with the logic here.

What's funny is that we have 3 Silva apologists here who aren't even on the same page lol.

Conor McCourt
400 Posted 03/12/2019 at 16:12:56
Mark, the problem with you is that you continually turn it into a Brands v Silva position and there seems no wriggle room for empathising with Silva or criticising Brands.

You refer to us as apologists for Silva who don't agree. The reasons are probably because we are three posters who have analytical minds who don't follow the crowd. If you listen to Steve he believes Silva is the right man, I have always hoped he was but was never my choice and Paul seems like he supports all the managers we have whether he likes them or not.

Steve and Paul always speak of the centre forward as that is one way of buying both Silva and Brands time. I never asked or speak of a centre forward as I like Kean and feel our priority was consolidating our strength from last season i.e. Centre back and Centre mid and its for this reason why I feel the manager needed backed. We spend 2/3 of the Doucoure money on Iwobi but the difference to our team would have been enormous. Look at the Leicester goals- do you think if Doucoure was playing there they would have burst through our midfield without a tackle and unchallenged with his power and pace?

I hated Sam Allardyce,thought it was a terrible appointment but when he asked for Tosun I'm glad he was backed because it would have been foolish to buy someone like Defoe when he favours direct football.
Don't forget Silva wanted Ricky last year and he was vindicated, Doucoure was important to Silva for the spine, for character and for versatility in positions and systems.

Your view is wrenched with Brands. Even on this thread your praising Iwobi and Sidibe again (his signings) and take umbrage with those that question him at all as if we are attacking your mother.

How do you think the Scum fans would react if they sold Van Dijk and Fabinho and brought in some young talented forwards and a right back to challenge Arnold. How do you think their title charge would go if you rip out the spine and replace with unproven talent?

You have argued that Gueye wanted to go so he had to...well this was Silvas solution to mitigate the risk and not become the disaster it has.

Steve Ferns
401 Posted 03/12/2019 at 16:25:16
I like Brands as well. I think he's done a good job, but he's constrained by what went before him, trying to clear out the mess of his predecessor and fix the wage bill. He played chicken with regards to the centre-back and if you do that you can lose out, and we lost out. I accept the Timori rumour as probably true, namely that he was agreed to come in as the backup option to Zouma but that the rug was pulled from under our feet by Arsenal signing Luiz. The criticism though is that we should have just given up on Zouma and got Timori signed earlier. He'd have made a big difference as he looks a player.

I also like and rate Kean. I also like and rate Calvert-Lewin. I still think we needed a goalscorer, but our failure to offload Tosun is due to the wages the previous regime gave him and the price they paid for him. I blame the above and FFP for our failure to land the winger and centre-midfielder.

A Director of Football needs a good few years to judge his work, You can only see now, with the wages given out by Walsh, the damage he has done to the club. A club with money, and a massive wage bill, is constrained by his incompetence.

As for Gueye, I accept in modern football that once a player wants to go, you can't keep hold of them. But we don't know the full story there.

These things are rather complicated.

As for divisive terms like "Apologist", is there any need for that? We're all Evertonians and want the best for Everton and we need a united fanbase right now. There's a Derby in just over 24 hours. So let's pull together as one.

What any of us think on Silva or Brands doesn't really matter. None of us can influence anything. debate things and discuss them, but let's not fall out over it and use divisive labels.

Conor McCourt
402 Posted 03/12/2019 at 16:45:22
Steve most of the above I agree with. Where I take exception with your view is surrounding the Zouma and Timori argument.

For me we should never been looking at either. The club had from January to deal with two really crucial positions just to consolidate before we could consider improving.

Zouma was never coming and Timori was never coming Permanently. Had Timori come yes it would have papered over cracks but we would have been back to square one next summer.

It always seems though Steve that when a player wants to go he gets his wish at Everton but when it's us that wants the unsettled player they have no problem with doing the best for their clubs and fighting us off.

Steve Ferns
403 Posted 03/12/2019 at 16:51:53
I agree with that Conor. I hear that Brands had a few people lined up, and Silva said no to them all. Silva wanted a guy with Premier League experience and Brands couldn't find anyone to match that criteria. Whichever way it went, whoever was responsible, the club made a serious mistake there. I do like Holgate, but we needed someone with pace and then it should have been Mina or Keane for the other position.
Mark Guglielmo
404 Posted 03/12/2019 at 17:29:21
Conor, what does my defense of Iwobi or what we spent on him have anything to do with whether or not Doucoure would have/would not have stopped Ndidi? Iwobi wasn't even playing midfield. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I know you will, but it seems as though you're suggesting we should not have spent £27m on Iwobi because we should have spent £45m (or more) on Doucoure. I have no idea what my defense of Sidibe, by far our most valuable player at Leicester, so we can move beyond that. You also completely sidestepped the direct question I asked you.

I don't turn anything into Brands vs. Silva. I simply defend Brands, whereas it's not hard to read the tea leaves to arrive at the conclusion that "Brands failed Silva, it's not fair to him, so Brands is bad." I don't know why you take such umbrage at the word apologist. I'm a Brands apologist and wouldn't care in the least to be called such. I'd love to be a unified front, but do you read 95% of the comments here? Good luck with that. Easily the most negative Everton forum in existence. Unless you mean unified in hatred of everything from Moshiri down to our back-up midfielders. You're 98% of the way toward that goal then. I'm one of only a FEW optimists who tries to find the positives in just about everything, but no one even gives a shit because they're too busy ranting about literally everything.

Steve has by far the most balanced, reasonable views here, and ironically is the biggest Silva supporter here. That at least indicates that he's taking a 360-degree view of things. There aren't enough fingers and toes in my entire extended family to start naming regular posters who could take a page or 3 out of Steve's book.

Paul A Smith
405 Posted 03/12/2019 at 17:58:11
Steve, that is why I always try to go with what we do know.

All the -i heard this and heard that, isn't a point at all. If the horses mouth doesn't open, how can we speak for them?

Does going for Tomori (something we do know, or were told) sound like he was going for someone with premiership experience? Chelsea said no, not Silva.

Or do we reduce that one to, he said premiership experience but as long as they played in the championship for Promotion hopefuls, that is ok.

Conor is going with what we do know, no striker and no Centre Half. No fan can say they didn't want them players either and only Billy Bullshit could convince himself Silva would only take Premiership experience up front.

There is some outrageous defence for Brands. Fans should want every top player nevermind a certain position.

Things just get silly. Silva only wanted premiership experience but just think about it Steve. If Brands says I have convinced Koulibaly, is Silva saying No?

I agree Brands is tied to the previous regime to an extent Steve and that has been a problem of course, but until we know the list of players he supposedly was refused then why speculate.

Digne Mina Gomes Bernard. Where did they come from? Certainly not the premiership. I don't know how you go from such well constructed points to hearsay.

I don't hate Brands at all either. 80% of ?what he has pulled off has been great for us as a team but 20% has messed the starting 11 up this season.

He is no superman and made a cock up but it still doesn't mean he is useless either.

Steve Ferns
406 Posted 03/12/2019 at 18:02:14
You’re right Paul. It’s all just conjecture and speculation. I’d like to think Brands wouldn’t force any players on silva though and that silva wouldn’t shoot himself in the foot by saying no to everyone Brands lines up.
Conor McCourt
407 Posted 03/12/2019 at 18:07:42
Mark, In answer to your question in the summer ideally I would have preferred a younger player than Doucoure who was equally versatile (Mc Tominay was my suggestion before his serious rise this season and may have been available).

I think the manager should have definitely been given his wish or else we shouldn't have sold Gueye. My argument is that Iwobi is not a necessity even though I like him and I'm speaking overall in terms of this season and not blaming him for anything in the Leicester game.

You are actually arguing with me about criticisms Steve levelled at you and then praising Steve for having a balanced view. I'm sorry I can't believe that our summer window hasnt failed the current manager but I would feel the same with any manager and you are the only poster who sees this window as a success.

Last week you accuse me of being a hater of Silva, this week I'm an apologist, all because I'm trying to explain why the manager is continually playing a player whom he knows is not of the required standard and when he's had options he deemed viable Schneiderlin was out of the team and even the squad.

Paul A Smith
408 Posted 03/12/2019 at 18:11:17
Sorry Steve I had to edit that previous one mate.

I agree with you now though. It is a working relationship they have had to pull together. After last summer it wouldn't be crazy to suggest Silva was happy to be working with Brands?

I wouldn't mind betting after last seasons success in the market he has discussed names and left him to it.

Anyone who couldn't see Silva felt let down in his press conference before Palace needs to watch it again.

Mark Guglielmo
409 Posted 03/12/2019 at 18:48:31
Conor, in order:

1) Ok, thanks. I never saw your McTominay shout, so fair play.

2) This is the round & round portion of our ongoing discussion. There isn't any consistency IMO to use "Silva wanted Doucoure" and "we shouldn't have sold Gana" and "Iwobi wasn't a necessity" as all equal to make a point, because not a one of the 3 play the same position. But ok, let's just say we shouldn't have sold Gana because we couldn't get Doucoure (that's your point, not mine), but by that logic, we did get Gbamin, or did we not? Gbamin assumes the role of Gana, which mitigates not getting Doucoure. Again, I don't think this, but it's what you've pieced together. Iwobi is basically irrelevant to the conversation, except for the fact that we got him AND Gbamin for what Doucoure would have cost. Bad business, that. And Gbamin got hurt, in large part because of Silva rushing him back on no training camp, and our medical staff being about on par with Dr. Nick from the Simpsons. I know there's a lot to unpack there, but it wasn't easy to tie everything together from your somewhat scattered comment.

3) I must have missed Mr. Fern's criticisms of me. Steve aligns with my thoughts on almost everything re: Brands. What'd I miss? As far as the window being a success or not, I now see where the divide is. I view it as a success in terms of building a tightly-knit core of players around the same age, who can easily mesh in the same system or style of play, who will only raise in value, and who should give us a far more consistently successful team moving forward. Fellas like you view it as a failure because it didn't address a few needs for right NOW. Which appears to be 1) not replacing Zouma, 2) not replacing Gana (still don't know this), and 3) not getting a "proven striker" (which has rapidly become my most hated phrase of the year). That's fine, those misses didn't help us for 2019/20. But I, like many, perhaps naively believed that we were in NO danger this year with the talent we already had. If I had the ability to know that Gbamin, Gomes, Bernard, Delph were going to be injured for most/all of the year to date, or that Silva would take 9 games to actually try to bed in some of our new talent, or that Silva would not give Kean a real go at all, then sure, I'd be right there with you. But since no one DID know those things would happen, then our assembled squad in mid-August was absolutely a top 6 challenger. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

4) I guess I missed this part. The 'apologist' comment was me taking your criticisms of what Brands didn't do for Silva as a defense of Silva. Many, many times, so not just this isolated incident. If that was an incorrect leap in my logic, ok, I accept that. Steve is possibly the only person here I can think of who defends both with equal vigor and passion. I've basically come to assume that criticizing Brands for what he didn't do for Silva is equal to defending Silva. It's really not that large of a leap IMO, but again, ok.

There is so, so, so much complaining here, about every single person related to Everton FC, it's not easy to find unbiased criticism.

Conor McCourt
410 Posted 03/12/2019 at 19:41:49
Mark honestly I'm not being rude but this will be my last post responding to you because you cant seem to process any information and I just keep repeating things to you over and over.

1- cool

2-Silva wanted Doucoure, Gbamin and Gomes to replace Gueye,Mac and Schneids and make the midfield stronger. Doucoure could provide Siggy with competition or any other midfield role and is always fit. We have limited finances so I would love 6 or so players but it ain't going to happen so in my view we should have pushed through Doucoure as Iwobi was less of a priority to the teams needs.

3- a]Steve spoke about unity, attacking each other and pulled you up on the apologist remark..not me.
b]In terms of divide we both agree that some signings may prove successful in the long run but we disagree on how they have impacted the team now. Glad it's finally sinking in.
c]You didn't know Gomes and Delph would pick up injuries? Have you never seen them before? If there was one certainty is that they would both get injured at some stage this season and with Delph the majority of it.
d] This is again ridiculous on your part predicting top six and may explain why you give Marcel a free pass. Go to the last comment on the Iwobi thread on transfer deadline day to see what I predicted and my assessment of our summer signings. No hindsight required.

4-yet I have told you numerous times of how well Brands did in the previous window, how I agreed with the overall direction, how I agreed with your assessment of him financially and the difficulties he faced. There are very few of us that have criticised Marcel but on every occasion anyone does it's like you have to comment even if you have nothing to say.

Believe it or not I too am a positive person and I have no doubt we will improve after xmas regardless of who is in charge as the younger players and the new ones become more accustomed to their team mates and forming partnerships as happened last spring.

Mark Guglielmo
411 Posted 03/12/2019 at 19:53:01
"Mark honestly I'm not being rude but this will be my last post responding to you because you cant seem to process any information and I just keep repeating things to you over and over."

It's always funny these sentences. I'm not trying to offend you...but I'm going to go right ahead and offend you anyway. lol

Let me try.

Conor honestly I'm not being rude but this will be my last post responding to you because you cant seem to process any information and I just keep repeating things to you over and over.


Paul A Smith
412 Posted 03/12/2019 at 20:43:36
Conor you nailed that last post. That is honestly the type of perspective and knowledge I would love to see from every Evertonian.

The Gomes example. Why virtually nobody worked out he only ever plays 20 odd games a season in his best fitness I don't know. Delph, wow, a 10 year old could predict a spell on the sidelines for him.

I have nothing against Brands but to rate his position and role is boyband stuff for me. The team is my passion. I don't think he does anything Moyes couldn't have done transfer wise. He may have a sly contact or 2 overseas but so what.

We need readymade quality simple as that. I hate the other shower like mad but if we haven't learned from how they have kicked on recently we never will.

I have said this before but go back to half time Europa final Seville V The Shite. Half time the shite 2-0 up. Now today Klopp is a master tactician (nonsense) but with 45 minutes to go when your tactics should be more important than ever, they blew it. Why?

The answer was quality, fitness and aggression wasn't there enough. Seville stepped up a gear and looked really aggressive.

The Klopp tactical genius is a media myth. Pure bullshit. His biggest secret is he loves the fact people believe it.

To add fuel to this theory, Newcastle were the first team to stop a good unbeaten run under Klopp, a highlighted stat that day was they ran 0.5 miles more than Liverpool.

Its about time people got their fantasy heads out of their arses over tactics and looked at the players ability and desire.

Has Andy Robertson got a better left foot now? No. He is just miles fitter, almost PED like (but that is another theory) and stronger.

That is the last time I want to mention them pricks but I feel it was neccesary because of their rise under Klopp so lets run like winners tomorrow and take something from that scum.

Apologies to all for speaking of them in depth on ToffeeWeb.

Conor McCourt
413 Posted 03/12/2019 at 21:50:11
Paul, no it's a valid point about how fit they are and their apparent luck with injuries and is one of my major gripes with Silva. I agree how they have bought quality and what really impressed me about the wankers was it all came about by having to sell their main man and look how they dealt with it in comparison to us.

Thanks for the confirmation as I thought it came across as a little arrogant. It's just Mark and I had a good discussion on the bad Brands or bad luck thread where we went over similar points to today's and I'm tired of being a little repetitive.

Justin Doone
414 Posted 04/12/2019 at 06:50:10
Happy Silva tried something different but made several strange substitutions.

I can't wait for Kean to score, we all need a more clinical finisher and he could do himself and all of us a huge favour by becoming the go-to player.

I'd give Silva the 2 Merseyside derbies to win or he's gone. Glad we're booking the trend of hire and fire and trying to be patient but we can't wait for ever.

That gives him another Month and about 6 Premier league games (just over half a season) to improve.

I'd be all in for Poch ASAP or Mancini in the summer. Otherwise if he continues to fail another short-term manager for rest of the season. Happy for that to be Unsworth if needs, Moyes or Emery.

Sometimes a change sparks a short term improvement and we need pos change ASAP.

Tony Abrahams
415 Posted 04/12/2019 at 07:40:50
An even bigger valid point Paul A, is that because of the way they play it has United their crowd, and gave them that belief that they are never beaten.

Everton have got just as good a crowd, it’s probably better when it wants to be, but not when it’s witnessing “shite tactics”, tactics that wind you up, instead of wanting you to get behind the team.

Liverpool were winning one-nil against Seville, but they had a shithouse playing left back, (my red mate told me this six months before that game) who was exploited a minute after half time, and that player is no longer at their club, replaced by the workhorse that is Andy Robertson, whose hard work hides a multitude of sins imo, and if Walcott or Richarlison, are brave enough tonight, you will always get a chance against him?

Paul A Smith
416 Posted 04/12/2019 at 10:12:25
Definately Tony. We need to give as good as we get against them and forget the nerves.

I don't know about the players but I am always more nervous for the home fixture.

I am sick of the fear Tony, I hate losing to them but they don't scare me like they are some unbeatable army.

They are a load of phoneys with alien bandwagon supporters.
The most worrying thing for me is the ref.

Tony Abrahams
417 Posted 04/12/2019 at 13:02:26
And his mate in the VAR, studio room. They got one bad decision off Atkinson that sticks in my memory, and Aldridge had the temerity to tell us Evertonians how bad he his? As if we don’t know.

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