Everton grateful for rare away win but Silva still has plenty to prove

I so want Silva to succeed but when he plays Schneiderlin ahead of

1) Iwobi why can’t we play Siggy as the midfield 2 like he played for Swansea and put Iwobi in AMF? (What does Schneiderlin bring? He gave away the equaliser (plus nearly gave away a pen if Boufal had fallen) and defensive midfield is supposed to be his specialism!!!!)

2) DCL I’m all for giving Tosun a go but a lone striker he is not (neither is Moise Kean). Why not get the best out of them by playing DCL as a target man?? And I know that would mean a 442 but I don’t see that our nominal 433 has been particularly successful

Then I despair and want to get rid of Silva

Silva’s football should be improving either results, performances or both. Yet results are rubbish and performances are largely boring and pedestrian (albeit I didn’t see today’s game)

Very happy we won but we need it to kick start a run of performances and results or it’s meaningless and a slow painful death of Silva that we have to endure watching

Schneiderlin is no where near our best XI, but when Gomes, Gbamin, and Delph are injured, then we have no option but to play him. I think he did very well today except for one massive mistake. But he's in the team to stop things like that so his performance has to drop a couple of marks as a result.

Davies and Holgate both had good games and at both ends of the field. Both deserve to keep their places. We badly need them to maintain their recent form. Equally we need some of the more experienced players, such as Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott and Tosun to improve theirs and on a consistent basis. Those four cost over £110m. All were inherited by Silva and Brands and it was slightly alarming to note they were back in the team today. While injuries are undoubtedly a factor it highlights how little progress has been made in the last sixteen months.

Silva has played Pickford in every league game. He clearly likes him, even if he is does not fit the profile of the type of goalie he usually uses (6'4"+ giants). Keane was resurgent last season and has regressed this. Now he's dropped out the side we look a lot better at the back. I think this reflects that Mina is better than Keane and that Holgate goes better with him than Keane does.

Schneiderlin is on £100,000 per week. He cost £23m. No one else will pick up that wage, let alone give us our money back. Sigurdsson is on £125,000 per week. He cost us more than £40m. Same applies. Walcott is on £100,000 a week, and cost us £20m+. Tosun cost £27m and is on £60,000. These players are getting massive salaries and don't deliver the performances to justify them. Imagine if we could magic them away and have £400,000 per week to offer in wages and over £110m to spend in transfer fees. I don't think Silva would ask Brands to sign any of them, even if he does play them. I don't think Brands would consider signing them.

But this is the task at hand. Getting rid of the overly expensive players on massive wages. But we've got another 18 months of Walcott and Schneiderlin and another 30 months of Sigurdsson and Tosun.

It's a big job to get rid of overpaid stars who are not performing to the level that justifies the salary, and yet to move the side up the league. We need a bit of patience with Brands in that regard.

In a strange way I think the Gomes injury may have galvanised the team and had a positive effect on them psychologically. Perhaps they’ve found some extra determination and will to win that they didn’t seem to be able to find before. Silva’s career seems to have had these long streaks in them and we’ve found this out ourselves in his time at Everton. He needs to prove he can turn a bad streak into a good one much quicker. If he can then this can still be a good season. Especially if you look at the league table rather than our performances so far.

But I share your belief

Staggering sums of money, being flushed down the RBM, and maybe BMD, if it does happen.

As a business model, it’s scary.

Sticking to football is precarious, but there’s some green shoots, with the current team, and Iam airing on the ability to believe and grow confidence.

For me this seasons preseason games,started the rot, but last week and today some signs of bone marrow growing in the team.

Mina for me, could be the base of a new core, but Tom Davies, if he keeps his belief, could and I really hope do a Lazarus, and become and become a key cog in the engine room of the midfield.

His confidence, in my view is increasing every game, and I think the shackles are being undone, and the butterfly will emerge, as a player; if he believes, he can and I am sure, he will do it.

Over the years many players over written, under written, squashed and one way or another, they prove they can do it.

One of the best and most under rated players was Lee Carsley, did we ever replace him?

In my view no, Gana, was everything, a dynamo, but it’s a different era, but we need a player like Lee Carsley, and we have suitors in the squad but none are close.

Tom Davies, now has the best chance ever, of cracking the “code” at Everton..

But next week and Norwich. The team must be be tuned in all week,and then win the game.

Big bucks and that’s some kind of town, and reality these exceptionally high earners,

No matter what, Everton need to get through this year without a change of Manager, with the proviso that we end the season clear of the relegation zone and aleast at the same position as last. A good run in cups would not go amiss either.

Change at this stage would be no use to Everton progressing in future years, mainly because there is no one out there with a magic wand to turn Everton around. Everton need stablity first and then they can progress to the next level.

Davies, whilst also inexperienced is moving the ball quicker, he never hides and his positional play has definitely improved, just like Everton have, since him and Holgate have started getting more game time.

How can you be 100% sure all the players you have mentioned are earning those specific amounts?

Only the player, his agent and the club are privy to that information.
Again, can you confirm your source about the accuracy of those player's salaries.

Silva confuses me, but I see glimpses of possibly great things. When an old Evertonian like you, who has expressed such scepticism about some of our previous incumbents (like Koeman), writes a piece like that one about the lion within us, I tend to think there are different things happening here, despite the odd decisions that are being made. It helps provide belief. That's what we need at the moment, belief.

If that had been finished by Tosun, we would be talking about that and nothing else today.

Evertons total lack of a cohesive game plan is all down to Marco Silva's ineptitude. We don't exploit the weaknesses of other teams – we just go out and play and see what happens. If it's not going well we pull players off and throw other ineffective players on with No real purpose in what we do. Very reminiscent of the Moyes years and Silva is just as gormless as Deadly Dave ever was.

Yes, I am happy with the win which means we are not under as greater pressure going in to December but the downside is more time for Morbid Marco and his dodgy Joe Columbo mack. I can't bare to look at Silva any more and listening to him is even worse. I always believe a football team reflects the manager in charge of them. Everton are a perfect example of this.

The clowns running this club have got the fans happy and smiling with 13th place in the table and that tells the story of the club's lack of ambition. As long as Silva stays here we will remain a mid-table nothing club. As long as we stay in the Premier League, doing fuck all but surviving, Kenwright will tell Moshiri that everything is okay and Farhad will believe him. And so it goes.

They may publish values, but not specific salaries, and indeed Everton are 'obliged' by law to publish accounts, but you can only second guess what each member of the squad earns.

With respect, anyone can assume what certain players are earning. without a shred of proof really.

Injuries and suspensions have forced Silva's hand. He should be thanking his lucky stars because up to that point he had shown no inclination to promote Sidibe nor did Davies look like even 5th choice. Even Holgate's emergence has come with a twist of fate.

But I can't help but feel he will regress back. Take Sigurdsson. Back in the team after Iwobi had a poor game shunted out wide last week. Yet Siggy was given weeks to hang himself before Silva saw the light.

How is that even any form of meritocracy? The message it sends is a poor one. Yet again Iwobi was involved in the goal.

I still find Silva seeking tactical perfection (in a league which won't allow it) and not using the functionality the squad he has. Perhaps if he can harness this then build a more prosaic platform he could survive?

He is still living hand to mouth each week. The lack of alternatives is damning and frankly is saving his ass, as is the stunning mediocrity of the league.

Whilst I agree you can’t ‘know’ for sure, it seems unlikely a whole site is based on guesswork.

Generally, I thought we played well today. While we are reminded that Leicester laced them 9-0, we must also remember that a week later they were close to winning at Man City.

I agree to a large degree with Mike (5). I also think we can beat any team on the day but lack of confidence and self-belief has a negative effect on the individual players and the team. I also think we have had an inordinate amount of really bad luck.

I was impressed today by our younger players. I think more of them need to be introduced into the team. I do NOT think we are getting the best out of Kean. I just don't want to see young talent wasted.

It was noticeable that at least 4 times he was quickly on the scene with a "Let's get on with the game and no mucking about" attitude as he pulled Richarlison back to his feet.

I also saw him several times with a fierce look on his face delivering some "Lift your game" advice to older players.

That’s true. But more importantly, did you rough up Harry Catterick?

You can't go by the game against Man City. They literally just parked the bus had a couple of breakaways where they scored from one but otherwise it was like the Alamo and eventually Man City won 2-1.

I said before today's game that they wouldn't and couldn't play like that at home and that we would have plenty of opportunities to score but I was concerned about our inability to score and our propensity for conceding goals.

I believe that's how the game panned out and, although I am relieved and delighted to have gotten a much-needed 3 points (It was a 6-pointer really), my concerns still remain.

Our open play can be entertaining at times but, like Martinez's reign, we leave ourselves open to leak goals and if we can't score the goals to reflect the chances we create, then we won't get the results.

Pretty sure Dunkirk was a VAR deal based on lack of activity for ages.

It has definitely forced Silva to give the young players like Davies and Holgate extended runs in the team in their preferred position; Calvert-Lewin and Gordon also featured on the bench. The team that started against Southampton (and the subs brought on) was young and will be inconsistent, but that can change with the confidence that winning brings. The new model is to sign players under 26 years old and bring players through the Academy players, but Silva has buckled under pressure and relied for most of the season on Schneiderlin, Sigurddson and Walcott. Experienced players who were signed under the last two regimes in big salaries – as Steve Ferns points out. They have not justified his decision.

Also, there were one or two posters in the live forum who ranted throughout against Silva, even after the final whistle. One even said he was indifferent to the result – I won't name him but he can across as a right Jerk. Any blues fan who would prefer a defeat due to hatred of a manager or to prove their point should go and take a long hard look in the mirror.

The three standout players on the pitch yesterday were Tom Davies, Mason Holgate and Sidibie. Academy, £2M, loan.

Mason's contract expires in 18 months, I think we should be looking at extending that right now. I expect Mr Brands to be ahead of the curve with regards contracts for our young talent.

We have all season to look at Sidibé, but at £12M to exercise the option to make the loan permanent needs to be seriously considered. It's looking a real bargain in today's market. He has a touch of class about him, sublime cross yesterday for the winning goal and just as good late tackle out wide to stop a Southampton breakaway attack. I was impressed with him.

You are 100% correct when you say fete played a hand in Silva's selection, but as you know, that's how these things often happen.
Alex Ferguson was reportedly moments from the sack when a youngster (was it Mark Robins ? ) altered the course of premier league history and no Evertonian will need reminding of the effect Kevin Brock's back pass had on ours.

Dear Howard and Fergie both drank in the last chance saloon, but just when we all thought they were about to be turfed out, fete intervened and bought them another bevy.

I have got underpants older than that.

A good win yesterday thought Sidibe made a monumental mess of controlling the cross field ball in the lead up to their goal but made up for it with a cracking cross for Richy.

Telling how animated Marco and Boa Morte were and Mason was excellent along with Mina and Tom.

Silva keeps pulling it back from the brink and has my suppprt to turn it around.

Can't understand some of the personal insults banded about on this site sometimes for me it ruins a healthy obsession but that's TW.

A couple of injuries and Silva reverts back to the old guard of Schneiderlin and Sigurdson even though they are crap!

Great to see Lineker congratulating us on our first away win in the league, we are only 12 games in FFS!!!!!

Cheers Paul - sorry we didn’t get much of a chance to talk yesterday I completely agree with your match/player assessment. Also feel that Silva is showing the right commitment and fighting spirit to at least buy some time. We still looked quite poor at times, but luckily Southampton were bloody awful!

Stand by for a shock. Twelve. Yes, 12. Last season we took 2 points less from these fixtures than we have this year.

An even bigger surprise. Last full set of fixtures, so the last results from playing each team twice, Champions League final Spurs have taken just 2 more points than us.

Much as we think we are awful, much as we think we are going to get relegated, there are lot of even worse teams out there and perhaps our real frustration is that Leicester are 8 points better than last season and in the mix with the Sky 6 and it should have been us.

P.S. Bad news, next 6 fixtures, we took 13 points last year including winning at Leicester and home to Chelsea. 27 points at Christmas and we should relax - and pinch ourselves because we think we are dreaming.

As you're probably aware I have always wanted to see the youngsters introduced, even if it be on the bench, as was Anthony Gordon yesterday, (I applaud Silva for that) but unfortunately got no game time yesterday.

Pity about another International Break preventing us again from building on yesterday's win, and getting a head of steam up.

Oh, and by the way Tony mate I think it's time you treated yourself to some new underpants! 😋

Happy birthday, Duncan, I hope that old adage is true for you, mate!

Apologies to Duncan McDine, it was remiss of before not to wish you all the best on reaching a significant milestone in your life, hope you enjoy your day mate.

If you get an embarrassment of undergarments as presents, maybe you could help Tony out! 😁😋

I know many posters were not convinced that Holgate and Davies were worth their places, I would suggest that these two lads have proved that they definitely are worth their place in this team. I feel a lot more assured with Holgate alongside Mina than I do when Keane plays, also I think Davies gives us more energy in midfield and he is always looking to play it early and normally he looks for a forward pass.

But and for me its a big but, I don't think Silva and Brands share the same ideas in the players that have been bought since the two came together. How much discussion they have with one another before a player is bought I don't know, but team selection would indicate that there is a massive divide between the two of them. Highlighted again yesterday when Kean isn't on the bench although he travelled so I presume he was fit to play if selected. To sign a young 19 year old from Italy for £30 million who hadnt had a full season in the Italian league was madness. Did Brands really believe that young Kean who spoke little English would come in and hit the ground running, when we have seen top seasoned Internationals struggle when they first came into the Premier league. Thierry Henry a super talented footballer struggled in his first season and he had played a lot of top class football before joining Arsenal. I think there has also been a few other instances were Brands and Silvas ideas clash I think Iwobi is another Buy that Silva doesnt seem to fancy.. This also happened when our previous DOF bought another supposedly exciting young striker when he bought Sandro, again our manager then Koeman didnt seem to rate him. So he has been out on loan for practically 2 years and no doubt we are paying most of his reported £100,000 per week.

But besides this I don't think Silva knows what his best 11 is, I know we have a few players out injured, but we have Holgate and Davies in the starting line ups but werent considered at the start of the season. Also Tosun another who Silva was quite happy to see leave the club now starts yesterday. DCL who had played a lot of the earlier games now has been relegated to the subs bench. So for me it doesnt augur well when the DOF and manager have different ideas and the manager is miles away from knowing his best 11.

Despite our poor run, everyone else bar the top 4 hasn't been playing particularly well either hence why we're only 3 points off 5th.

As for the December fixtures from hell, I can still see us picking up points. These teams can't keep winning forever.

At months end I will be double Duncans age and that leads me to appreciate the Catt's magnificent contribution to our 'Istry'. After a particularly ignominious team performance he said while rubbing his hands. "I can't wait for one of that lot to come knocking on my door looking for a wage rise."

There are a few players in the team that are too individual, this is why players like Holgate, Davies and Sidibe are making greater contributions because they are working with their partners more, despite less football talent.

Once again, Silva's team selections were baffling. Calvert-Lewin suddenly starts finding the net so is dropped to the bench! Southampton are susceptible to pace so he plays the decidedly slow Tosun and Sigurdsson.

I thought Davies and Holgate were the pick but, once again, we failed to turn the screw and set ourselves up for the inevitable fightback.
Apart from being left for dead for their goal Schneiderlin's wayward pass to our left wing set up their initial attack in the first place.

On the plus side we weathered the storm and picked up a very welcome 3 points albeit against a piss poor side.

I feel this was despite Silva and not because of him but it's probably bought him a bit more time before his inevitable dismissal.

Top tip for Tony: if your undies are getting a bit manky, try turning them inside out. Works a treat (or so I'm told)!

A somewhat weird match for me, I didn't have time to check the line-ups before the match.
The stream I had began with Thai commentary.
It buffered nearly continuously, and had English commentary for a while, before turning to Chinsese for the remainder of the match.
In the 21st minute! I learned that Schneiderlin was playing I had not noticed him beforehand.
Even more positive is we won with him playing.
Though of course he was mostly to blame for their goal.
Like others have mentioned, it's good that Mason Holgate and Tom Davies played well.

Ronald Koeman called up Calvin Stengs (20) and Myron Boadu (19) for the national squad for the first time.
Both are from my local, and Marcel Brands' old club, AZ Alkmaar.
Both players show that football can be fun.
This is what we need to see from our youngsters, when selected of course, but that's what most of us want.

It has to be said that the manager has still not worked out what his best team is. How many different permutations has he tried up front in the course of the last 4 or 5 games? It can't be a help to any player to know that 1 bad game means you don't start the following one. Calvert-Lewin is not prolific by any means but he did score 5 in a 6 game run and that should have cemented his place for a number of games.

I just hope that by the time we play Burnley at Christmas that it does not take on the same significance as yesterday's game.

If there has to be a short term change after Christmas and I hope results in the coming weeks take this issue off the table, then Moyes is the answer, not Hughes.

They all said that while the experience was great, the game was pretty crap but that we should be really proud of our supporters who made the journey.

He has lost his coaching partner and he is in the early stages of a new partnership. He also has possibly the biggest problem that a coach could have and that is of inheriting two overpaid and underperforming midfielders who he can't fit in, can't play in his systems yet who expect to be picked and with a top management who perhaps insist on it. Who would buy either of them?

I say he must be given until the end of the season, he must be allowed to produce an unexpected miracle which must be delivered from within. Any new manager is a massive and unknown risk with no guarantee that in a year we won't be in the same position. We're in a lose/lose situation and sacking coaches won't necessarily change that.

I’m glad your son and his mates enjoyed Everton’s away support, which can’t be beaten imo Martin, how could it be when they haven’t won a cup for 25 years and sell out absolutely everywhere they go?

The situation for us right now is too delicate. Should we beat Norwich then we'll be in a good position regarding safety from relegation. Avoiding the drop is Silva's target for the season. If we can stay comfortably clear of the bottom three then he can stay.

The summer has to see a change in heirachy though. It's not working. Providing the right man is available and interested, Brands and Silva should make way for a manager who looks after the transfers as well as matchdays.

For me, the disruption that a change of coach would bring just now is not worth it and the cost to the club is astronomical. A couple of good results would see us in such a different position so no worry – yet.

I was so proud at what these lads said about our fans. They all support Chelsea and Arsenal but they said that the Everton support down there was the best they had seen. I can only pass this on to our wonderful fans who deserve better.

I was on live forum and after the Saints goal went in I said I think we need to lose this game to force the board into action, a valid arguement I would say and still re-itterate, short term pain for long term gain, Now what would be the big deal of 1 more defeat in 35 years of abject failure and mediocrity I ask you???

I was shot down, sworn at, called a baby by the credulous "mob" who think it is a cardinal sin to express this opinion (to note, this is the not the 1st time I have felt this way in 35 years of utter shite) and to not slap on a smile flip on the scarf and "cheer the lads on" is the Everton way yada yada... Well, I am sorry I am burned out at this stage, I have to say.

I can recall many failed managers at EFC in my time supporting them and there comes a time when deep down you feel that this next defeat will "put us out of our misery" and can have a cleansing effect, Or maybe this is just me but I remember feeling it with Walker, Harvey, Martinez, Koeman and now Silva

Now, every time I see that talentless toad Bill Kenwright sitting in our stands after lining his wallets and causing the club to have a 35-year coma, I ask the same question? How the fuck has he got away with this? Where are the banners? Where are the fan mags organizing stunts to show their disapproval of this utter crap that is served up EVERY year? Nothing... and why?

And I am sorry but it is a plain truth of life, business, sport etc that, if you FAIL miserably at your job you will only survive if your Employers set NO standards which you can be judged by, and hold nobody accountable, So I am sorry if you can stop pandering to audience for 1 second (and I note you're not the only one engaged in this practice -pathetic, they know who they are also and will remain unamed but this site is their lives by the looks) and look at the bigger picture you would see that not only is it a valid expression of frustration and makes perfect sense, it is, in my opinion, you who needs to look in the mirror

Ask yourself has that blind apathy and credulous support to the club had any part in the free ride this Toad has gotten? And indeed on the absolute shite we have endured for 35 years??? Well, I for one think it very much has.

So sit back and enjoy the legacy you are handing over to the next generation of Toffees supporters, not only seems okay to cheer a £300-million team barely beating a relegated Southampton but even worse to shoot down anybody who may express the above opinion that is not good enough?? Shocking!

You're a happy clapper and a clown and you and your ilk are being served exactly what you expect and what you deserve. So yes, I was indifferent to whether Southampton beat us the late goal is prolonging the inevitable and, if we wait until December, it could be too late.

So, as much as you would prefer to have an echo chamber here, where the same opinions are wheeled out again and again, you need to respect other people's right to have an opinion (even negative ones... yes, amazingly). If you want to argue the point, well fine...but I feel as above is YOU who need to look at yourself.

Jesus, if I wasn't being negative about this club after 35 years of shite, I would think there is a real problem!

Silva Out!!!

But, I had a real issue with something Marco did yesterday.

Around or about the 38th minute or so, Marco looked to protect his 1-0 lead, we got very compact, and sat back. I believe the thinking was to take the 1-0 into half.

That, for me, was a cardinal sin.

We were dominating that game. There was no reason to sit back and get into the locker room up 1-0. And this is Marco's major flaw. We should have kept pushing to go up 2-0, but he clearly instructed the players to close the space in midfield and stop pressing high up the pitch. Even this American noticed it, and when questioning it on the live forum more than one person agreed and saw it, too.

If we were in the middle of a more evenly contested game, or playing a team to be concerned about, I'd understand the move. I'd not like it, but I'd understand it.

We called off the attack dogs against Southampton! When we were battering them! What was the effect of all this?

Southampton were allowed time and space to get on the ball, they got some flow, got into the game where previously they had no entry, and the rest is now history. They came out at half, tails up, and started to take the game to us.

This is a mindset issue, and a defensive one. Marco should not be looking to protect against inferior opposition, he should be looking to destroy them.

Would Frank Lampard, Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp, or Pep sit back against Southampton and look to get into the locker room 1-0 up, after completely dominating for 35 or so minutes?

Never.

Had we played a superior team, that move would have seen us getting zero points from that game. We allowed the opposition to get back in the game.

Until Marco changes this mindset and approach, we'll never be the team we are capable of being.

All that said, the bottom line is we got the three points.

But that situation just prior to halftime, was, for me, a microcosm of why Marco will never be a top manager.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be negative at all. I'm just pointing out what I saw, and what I saw will bite us in the rear-end at some point, and is the reason we find ourselves where we currently are in the table.

It's a competition. When you have an inferior team on the ropes, you know them out. You don't wait for the bell, and you don't look to get into the 15th round and await a decision.

You knock them out. We didn't, because our manager called off the attack. And that, again, is a cardinal sin, for me.

No killer instinct.

Where were you on Saturday bro? I was getting told to "fuck off" yeah by grown men btw (on a keyboard of course) for expressing an opinion???

Starting to feel some fans get the club they deserve, certainly the Chairman and Manager, and are happy to bury their heads in the sand as long as they get 1 week a month where they aren't embarrassed by the team!!!

Sillva Out! Kenwright Out! And whatever it takes for that to happen, I am okay with, for the betterment of the club – and anybody who thinks it is unEvertonian or makes me less of a fan, they can suck my balls

I can't understand Simon as much because I don't see Silva being as bad as Smith, Walker or Koeman, and I also feel a lot of the venom getting directed at the manager mostly comes from people who never wanted him in the first place.

I couldn't understand why Everton stopped playing around that time, Jamie, thanks for pointing it out mate. My house was nice and peaceful with just me and one of my twins being home, then the other one came home and it descended into chaos, and I honestly couldn't concentrate until I had to scream at them 50 times!

My biggest gripe was we sometimes lacked quality and sometimes we lacked bravery inside the final third, but it was good to ride out even the meekest of storms because I honestly never felt we would. So I'm absolutely desperate for Mina and Holgate to stay fit now, because I can now see some green shoots in the way we are setting up defensively.

He did worse in the second half, bringing Michael Keane on with minutes to go, again to sit back and protect the lead, and inviting Southampton to come and attack us, thankfully we hung on.

Hopefully other coaches at the club are pointing out to him what you have described Jamie. Thinking about what has gone on all season I very much doubt that.

To be fair to Marco, Moyes many times tried to protect a one goal lead, often failing. FA cup semi against Liverpool springs to mind.

The problem with releasing Marco now is who would come? I still feel we would have been better off with Allardyce to the end of this season. No I didn't want him long term, but we would be a lot further up the table.

Remarkable we finished 8th with Allardyce... then got rid of him! Surely we'd've been better off keeping him. The fan base just wouldn't allow it.

Let's hope this new direction pays off soon. Actually, even if we go on a good run now, part of me would still want a change to take us to that other level.

Moyes and Kenwright, fucking incredible job they did between them, and I used to wince when listening to Liverpudlians telling me that Moyes was doing a great job.

I used to ask them did they think he was a good manager? “Yes they’d say” would you have him at Anfield, I’d ask? Never got a yes fucking once... I said I never got a yes off even one of them!

Are you two sat together on a couch right now?

I think in todays world Silva hasn’t done to badly with all his ability either.

If you think I am a happy clapper for Silva you obviously haven’t read a single thing I have posted.

But as far as I am concerned, anyone who wants Everton to lose to prove a point has lost the right to be listened to with any seriousness.

And yep, I'd say if there's one (and only one) inarticulate, f-bomb-dropping, sexually-insulting JerK on TW rooting for us to lose -- and then whining like a four-year-old because we won -- he has forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter.

Silva picked a pedestrian team that made harder work of it than they should. Tosun was embarrassingly poor, and him paired with the equally slow Sigurdsson is bordering on the ridiculous.

I was on the live forum that night...and as a former resident of both the boys pen and many alehouses, the forum is a mixture of the two and its not known for snowflakes.

I know it takes two to tango, but some valid points or not, you managed to wind up the usually placid mike gaynes and that takes a bit of doing. If I was barman I would've bared you both.

Having said that, if someone else wants us to lose, that's up to them, and it's not for me to tell them otherwise. They probably have their reasons. For example, if they lived next door to a very unpleasant and arrogant red, and us losing stopped them winning the title, I could well understand where they're coming from. I live away from Liverpool now, so don't have to put up with any unpleasant reds, like I used to.

There's no point in calling someone a jerk (unless it's friendly banter and craic, which is different). There's no substance to it, it's just a daft assertion. And being an Evertonian is not something that can be judged as a 'right' or otherwise. Being an Evertonian is something that happens to you. Everton choose you, not the other way round.

It just reminds me of Peter Cook and Dudley Moore doing Derek & Clive: This bloke came up to me and called me a cunt. What did you do? I said, "Don't call me a cunt, you fucking cunt!"

The difference was, Derek & Clive were funny.

Jamie Crowley, I can't believe you called Silva out for doing a Moyes thing when he has the tendency to do the opposite, a Martinezian trait of pushing on when it is safer to protect. He did not do what you describe either. He made one slight, very slight, tweak and that was to conserve energy and not press in the Southampton half. We did not sit back compact, we stopped pressing their half and rested and took the lead to Half Time. Moyes was great at protecting leads and getting into half time. It is one of the most crucial times in football, the players start to think the job is done and switch off and many sides score a sucker punch just before half time.

It was obvious to me that Southampton would come out all guns blazing at half time. I'm sorry, but we have to accept that Southampton were always going to respond for the first five minutes. They are losing, they lost the last home game 9-0, and the manager can go hard on his players and get a reaction. This is what Pellegrini was saying about the West Ham game, that Silva could go hard on the players and whip them up into a performance. He said the year before the boot was on the other foot and he did just that himself.

We needed to come out the second half and try to keep it tight for the first 10 minutes or so, and wait for opportunities to seize control and keep the ball and suck the life out of them. Weathering the storm we used to call it. Their crowd would have then lost their own second wind and start to turn on the players some more and would be comfortable again.

It was sensible tactics before half time, and I don't know what the plan was for the first 10 or 15 minutes as Saints scored too quickly and we didn't get a chance to weather that storm.

As I said, Silva has shown a tendency not to keep it tight, or batten down the hatches and take a lead into half time, but to push it and get caught with a sucker punch. My biggest problem with Silva is his recklessness and the way he pushes it too much and gets caught with sucker punches and we lose game we were comfortable in.

As for meeting with his coaches, I would expect they would all be yes men, to be honest. I'm guessing, but they've all been with him too long and are unlikely to be too honest. Boa Morte I have no idea about, but I expect he is unlikely to be rocking the boat at this early stage of the partnership. Joao Pedro Sousa was someone who would tell Silva a contrary opinion and was his sounding board. So he is a big loss.

But you're forgetting Brands. He must have meetings with Silva. They must discuss the games, they must discuss the strategy. Brands will tell Silva how it is and be critical of things. I don't see Brands as Silva's boss, but someone who will report on his performance to those who make the decisions and of course being on the board he will probably get to vote. Brands will also be aware that his performance is also being questioned as a result of our poor league position and he will want to rectify this, by helping Silva improve results.

One of the things about having a Director of Football is that the players can go to someone else other than Silva. If they are unhappy and want a transfer, then they can knock on Brands' door. If they want to play, then it's Silva's door they knock on, but they could by-pass him and go to Brands. Brands will also talk to the players and get feedback. He can tell Silva that his tactics are causing us to concede at set pieces and if he doesn't sort it out, then he will get sacked. Maybe this led to the shift to the new hybrid system that sees 7 players man to man marking on corners?

I think Silva has performed well in his recent press-conferences. He came across well in victory on MOTD in his "chat" with Lineker. He was extremely bullish with the written press judging by his remarks to them after the game, and a couple of journos put this down to him having felt the pressure that he said he wasn't feeling.

I think Brands has a massive role to play this season, after Silva. They are in partnership together. We need to 2 or 3 players in January (particularly a centre-back). All probably on loan (in case Silva is fired) and it will be important to see how Brands reacts the next time Silva hits a bump in the road.

As regards me making a clown of myself on the forum that is your opinion, has no effect on me or how I feel about the club right now as I said I enjoy TW but unlike some is not big part of my life so concensus/harmony on the forum is not big deal for me.

On Saturday it looked to me like Mike Gaynes and yourself looked up from chewing the cud long enough to mooh at somebody disturbing the herd before returning to your grazing is how I saw it (lapping up Kenwright's piss soaked nettles)

as seen in showing your anger at somebody having an opinion (on a forum of all things) but not dealing with the issues raised at all??? See, the point is, I reckon in 3 weeks time you may well be thinking the same thing.

Again you don't get to decide who can have what opinions on this site, as much as you would enjoy having TW be an echo chamber to enforce and confirm your views, The odd time you may find people expressing views contrary to your own, You can chose to call them a jerk or tell them to fuck off if you like, which reflects more on you pair than on myself, but some insults slung from a keyboard by grown men have little or no effect on how I think or feel. I am old and hairy enough at this stage, thanks.

The put-down of dissent among fans (whatever form it takes) hurts the club long term and feeds into the herd mentality that Kenwright exploits. I reckon the sacred cow of having to cheer for the team, no mattter what, is not good (discuss or call me a jerk; your choice).

As for upsetting the usually "placid" Mike Gaynes, I would suggest it doesn't take to much to get him angered if a simple opinion expressed on a forum can tilt his wig so easily.

@Mike @79: "... he has forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter"??
And who bestowed that right on your good self to decide this eh?? Listen to yourself, talk about a dumb retard mentality of "Let's get him, lads".

Read my post at # 66 -- That's YOU that is.

So is great to here somebody who actually DOES this ( and I have the utmost respect for those hardy souls) expressing a similar-ish opinion, I have watched through the miracle of IPTV every Everton game under Silva and I am shocked at how poor a manager this guy is, ,

He has a side that could easily be in the Top 4 scrapping out results at bottom clubs and embarrasing themselves at Goodison

In EVERY aspect of his role he is failling so if a defeat against an appalling Saints side can rush his departure is a good thing in my opinion, And speaking as somebody who would sit in Dublin in the 80s listening to Everton games(barely audible) on LW radio playing on Tues nites in Simod cup , I was also aware from an early age, that what I hope or wish happens in a game usually has little reflection on the result,

However now I feel we need to lose games to get Silva out and hopefully Mosh will show some teeth and fuck that fraud BK out on his ear also

But being an Everton supporter of long standing ( I think I still am I will have to clear it with Mike Gaynes) I did in fact cheer when Richarlison scored despite the fact is NOT a good result for the club in my opinion, Old habits die hard etc etc

I hope you and the rest of the away fans who are the lifeblood of the club get the manager you deserve before too long

Oh btw happy birthday Duncan :)

We started brightly got the goal then sat back. I couldn't understand as the crowd where on the player's backs. We should have pressed and pressed but didn't and that gave them hope for the second half.

They score but I still witnessed a lot of better play from us. I must admit that I and most around me wanted Richarlison taken off as he got into some great positions but just did not pull the trigger at the right time. Just shows how rubbish a manager we would all be, he goes and scores the winner.

So, when we are on top and score first, keep pressing and don't listen to fans for subs, cause we are rubbish at it.

"Though shall not criticise the management. That is why Kenwright has got away with 20 years of nonsense, why we are where we are.

Far from you not being a good Evertonian because of your views I would suggest you are a far more genuine Evertonian than your critics because you are willing to speak out and be honest for the good of the club.

We have had all this before in the defence of Koeman. He was wrecking the team and for a long time people wanted to silence the critics. Where is he now? Do you think he is bothered and has a love for Everton like we have? Will they ever learn?

Then I thought I would not cheer if we scored. I was jumping around like a loon with the rest of them. I hated Allardyce being Everton manager. The guy is corrupt and should be banned from football. If that's not bad enough well you all know the rest anyway.

But never once did I want us to lose. Never once did I want us not to win. If I had been able to decide the results, we'd have won every game and there'd be a petition to build Allardyce a statue outside Goodison now for winning 75 consecutive league matches and having brought the title to Goodison last season and Champions League football back to us, after winning the Europa League already.

We lost on Saturday, sacked Silva, we ended up 6th in the league;

We won on Saturday, Silva kept his job, we finished 16th;

Which would you take (leaving the cups out of it)?

This is how some people think. But it does not affect the reality of what will be will be. They are still at the match supporting the team.

I can honestly say the only time I would want Everton to lose is, if I know we are safe and it stops Liverpool winning something? Is that wrong?

Whilst I might debate the "want to lose" with you, your summarisation of the club, those who run it and those that manage the team ehco much that many of us feel.

Kenwright has overseen the worst era of the club in history, the club has lost status – he promulgated the 'plucky underdog' tag - a disgraceful depiction given our history and has been content to oversee mediocrity at best at all levels. That he has profited handsomely now out of such ineptitude is bedevilling to many long-term supporters.

My views on Silva need little introduction – he is a lightweight coach not fit for purpose and no club with genuine ambition would have allowed the complete atrophy we now see in team matters. We limp from game to game, hoping to stay afloat, when, in fact, with the season as it is panning out, a manager able to motivate would have had us double the points total we have and see us genuinely competing in the top echelons of the league.

We are truly embarrassing ourselves as a club and I see little changing given the personnel at the respective helms of coaching, team management and boardroom.

Some think that changing the manager is like changing the player on a play station game and as the new player will be brilliant and the old one was crap, we'll suddenly see massive improvements in performance.

All sacking Silva will do is put us back where we were under Allardyce. We would then sign players in January to suit the new manager and end up with a Tosun and Walcott scenario. We will then get a proper manager in the summer, paying off the interim manager. Then, the new guy will want different players to Silva and then we will have to ship out all the unwanted Silva players and buy a load more new ones. Plunging us back into another season of transition, and going backwards.

Jim, if Everton winning means the RS win the league, then the RS win the league. I bet I'd be in the minority on that one though.

As for Silva, fair enough, I'd love him to be a success at Everton, really hope he does, can't really see it up to now, to be honest.

It was great to see the best two players for us were the two younger lads, one who cost us nothing and the other a nominal, in the scheme of things, fee. These two lads wouldn't have had a look-in under Silva had we not had to play them due to injury and pure crap play by some.

It just proves we don't need to spend millions on dross and at the same time pay them millions a year. I see Sidibe has been priced at £12 million if we want him at the end of the season. Well there's another load of cash we can save. Bring back young Jonjoe Kenny and have him starting next season.

It's about time we gave more youngsters a chance, especially if those youngster "know" Everton. I would sooner see a youngster give 100% than watch some of our stars posing and prancing about contributing sod all. Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin – time to go.

This season has been a debacle so far and made worse by the what's happened across the park. Forget the draw against 10-man Spurs and the performance against Southampton. Everton have hardly impressed in any game this season, even with Bernard and Gomes. They have beaten a lousy Watford, and West Ham whilst catching a Wolves team cold.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest Silva knows what he is doing, any more than the previous 4 managers, and he seems to be a deer in the headlights.

Yes, it was nice to see Tom Davies do well but the squad as a whole needs a run of results to get me off Silva's back and I cannot see that happening.

For Everton to break into the top 6 in the long-term, Silva needs to be able to steamroller the sides who sit back and let us come on to them. This is his major failing as a manager of Everton.

I've never seen Silva play like Martinez, and I can't remember him ever being reckless and going for that "killer" goal.

Yesterday, contrary to many, I believe we were good. We had something like 24 shots? When you create that many opportunities, you can't really be that poor in my opinion.

But I remember a few weeks ago, we were near the bottom of the league in shots, and near the bottom of the league in goals. So saying Silva is some reckless, gung-ho coach isn't accurate for me. He's no Martinez, no Rodgers, hell he's no Lampard.

I sincerely believe him shutting up shop at the end of the first half changed the momentum of the game and allowed Southampton back in. It was a terrible error of judgement, one of many by Marco.

It reminds me of a night when I took the missus to that Marco Pierre White restaurant in the city. Huge picture of the man himself inside with huge prices on the menu. Bog standard food though, served by too many staff, none of whom looked interested. As if mega-bucks MPW gives a shit though.

Pissed off that I was ripped off for one night, I can fully understand the loathing Jer has for the charlatan in our boardroom for decades, now in his "enhanced role" according to Moshiri himself. Sigh.

Having said what I've said above, that was a very slow and passive performance by Southampton, they didn't make it hard for us to beat them.

I have my eye on the fixtures for December and I doubt we strike any fear in our opponents. Whatever will be will be!

Norwich, we simply have to crush them at GP, we can't be having a nervy draw with them and a late winner by us. For us to have any confidence for December we have to be much (much!) better than them with a scoreline to match.

As regards the Empathy is irrelevant problem is mostly herd mentality at work I mean can you believe a grown man (who shares his opinions out like confetti on here btw) could write this in response to somebody having an opinion different to theirs and then present it on public forum ??? Some standards he sets wha

" And yep, I'd say if there's one (and only one) inarticulate, f-bomb-dropping, sexually-insulting JerK on TW rooting for us to lose "

And I am inarticulate ? then HE decides that I am not a true fan ???, let them graze on BKs pissy neetles and tell us all it tastes like honey a couple of keyboard insults not gona sway my opinions, They are I believe part of the problem end of (see my posts above)

If getting Silva the bullet means defeat to Norwich I am OK with that, there I said it AGAIN, ,

If we score will i cheer most likely yes as is ingrained at this stage but should we lose I will be indifferent , I would rather be bottom 3 now while there is time to do somethign about it

I couldn't care less whether folks here insult this club's management, and I'm not the least bit interest in "silencing" them. I happen to agree with Ken Neale's assessment of Silva as a lightweight who cannot move the club forward, and I've said so on many occasions.

But when I see people hoping we lose, or even worse blaming the manager for a horror injury, I'm going to express my opinion of those posts -- and that's what I did with Tony Marsh, not insult him personally. His post about Gomes turned my stomach.

As for Kiernan's other intelligent content, his form of communication on the Forum was spewing f-bombs and sexual insults from behind his keyboard that would have gotten him punched out at the pub. If you admire that sort of thing as "honesty", well, as they say in Georgia, bless your heart.

"But when I see people hoping we lose" – What about it?

Ever occur to you it's none of your fuckin business, Gaynes? Probably not...

I am entitled to that opinion, whether you like or not. And by the way the insults came flying at me on the forum, I can assure you (not the other way around) anyone who's been on it and witnessed the mob on there (led by the likes of yourself) will know that, so don't be re-writing history.

Please don't bring violence into this discussion also. I had you sized up as a pathetic bully (soft as shite on the insides so clinging to the herd) so please don't perpetuate the image I have of you. I have been in many pubs and make it my business to stand up to bullies and I have never ended up on my back either for it.

As I said, read the post you sent 79. You're a fool and think nobody else has a right to opinion not of your keeping. considered an Everton supporter? Says it all for me.

Here, I will get your coat for ya.

After a confidence boosting draw at Palace and a win against Watford at home, we got beat at Villa. That didn't work then.
A win against Wolves then loses against Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd, City and Burnley
That didn't work then
A win against West Ham then a loss at Brighton and a point against Spurs.
That didn't work either.

You are right we do need 3 points against Norwich, the first back to back this season hopefully, as the next games, Leicester, RS, Chelsea, United and Arsenal don't exactly fill with confidence.

If we do get confidence it will only be because of the youngsters, and hopefully the crowd give us it.
I doubt very much it will come from the charismatic Marco and his favourite non performers

"But when I see people hoping we lose" – What about it? Ever occur to you it's none of your fuckin business, Gaynes?"

Jer, I'd have thought that if you wanted people to keep out of your business, you wouldn't post it on TW for all to see.

Anyway, you might well get your wish and see us lose in the next game. We're like the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist of football - we have next to nothing ourselves in terms of the goals we've got, but we're still willing to give away a few to somebody in more desperate straits than us. Silva might end up buried in Walton Park Cemetery.

'but whatever the flaws of the manager, the one I can't "bare" to look at is you'

I too doubt whether Gomes would have suffered that tackle, incident, injury if we had been playing well and not been in a desperate situation. That is not to say I am deliberately saying it's Silvas fault but Gomes was a victim of circumstances caused by the team struggling. As was McCarthy's if I remember correctly.

Tony Marsh doesn't talk 'bilious crap' he talks more sense than most and even though people hate his Big Sam recommend he was spot on for that situation.

For what it's worth, I am with you. We all agree that everybody has the right to voice their opinion - but it's the manner and use of words that offends. I find his posts disgusting and extremely offensive.

Lyndon/Michael, perhaps you should take a look at this exchange and the personal denigrating attacks on a decent long time poster on TW?

I'm a bit late getting to this one and just catching up with some of the rigorous exchanges on here, some of which definitely cross the line for me.

I don't agree with Jer Kiernan's contention because I think his logic is too simplistic and flawed: wishing for defeat in the presumption that Silva will be gone. The club heirarchy he despises so much showed last season that just wasn't happening, and sadly this season, it won't be down to him or his wishes either.

I keep well away from the Live Forum, and have neither the time nor the inclination to wade through so much nonsense on there — which may be part of the problem, as only by exercising some control on the more excessive posters can it be maintained as a place for reasonable exchanges by the majority.

But one rule I've always felt very strongly about is that, because we all come to this forum as Evertonians with our own thoughts and views, there are some forms of attack that cross a very important line. One is telling other Evertonians to go support someone else. We have zero tolerance for that.

The other, Mike Gaynes, is deciding that someone on here has "forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter". That is a red card offense on an Everton forum. You definitely do not get to decide that. Nobody does.

"I too doubt whether Gomes would have suffered that tackle, incident, injury if we had been playing well and not been in a desperate situation."

You know, you're right. Clearly if we hadn't been down a goal and so poorly managed, Gomes wouldn't have been dribbling that fast, Son wouldn't have fouled him and Gomes wouldn't have caught his cleats or collided with Aurier. In retrospect it's obvious that the score of the game and Silva's indisputed incompetence were key determinants in all those factors lining up to cause that terrible injury.

And you're also correct that we were similarly down 1-0 when Macca was injured, and the same is true with Bolasie's knee injury, so clearly that particular score is a serious danger to our club's health. I think you've uncovered a major trend and further scientific study is urgently needed.

I would never will us to lose or be annoyed we'd won. But I get your frustration as there have been many times where I've been ambivalent about a victory. Like when we beat City a week after totally capitulating against Wigan in the FA Cup QF at home. Stable doors closed after horses have bolted sort of wins. I'm also not a fan of wins when they paper over the cracks like under Martinez and Koeman and definitely Allardyce. It's difficult to get excited when you've beaten an abject opponent at home 1-0 knowing that if you continue to play like that in other matches, you won't finish higher than mid-table.

I think it is fair to say we are both looking at the bigger picture just I cannot quite bear to have us lose for something to be triggered. Perhaps you want radical change and I have just succumbed to apathy.

The live forum isn't the place to make statements like yours that needed wider exploration. It's very nature is that it's perfect for pun humour, monosyllabic commentary, venting or Trolling so once you said what you did, the Trolls were waiting with their claws out. I'm not saying that is right, by the way, it's just a sad reality. It's never pleasant to see them going for a fellow Blue.

I believe that, by definition, is not a supporter.

You are certainly entitled to view that as a red card offense.

But they – we – are all still Evertonians.

You can go all semantic on the "supporter" part of it if you want, but it's that fundamental high-horse judgement made by your good self that, by his ridiculous comments, Jer has "forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter". Sorry, you could have said anything else, but not that.

You do not get to question or judge the credentials of other Evertonians. At least not on this website.

But it raises a point I feel very strongly about in terms of mutual respect for who we are as posters. Obviously it's a bit late for that in this case!!!

It's only passion for the club bubbling over in different ways. Bad language doesn't help proceedings. But I feel fairly confident that Mike Gaynes and Jer Kiernan are both proper fans who want the best for this club.

I understand you have your rules. I once, myself, fell foul when suggesting someone "should go and watch the other lot." (Lesson learned).

But there are things "said" in threads and the online forum which make the "forfeiting the right to be an Evertonian" comment seem like a bloody compliment to be honest.

The main reason why I avoid the live forum like the plague.

ps: If Mike Gaynes is to be charged I'd like to hire the services of Mr Ferns on his behalf. ;-)

Good one Brent

No mate. I think Ash was adding his own take on it to be honest. I've certainly heard "septic tank" or "ham shank" but never "Seppo."

I merely used that as it's quite relevant at the moment!

There's a lot, I'm sure. But to me, the one thing that puts us together here is that we are Everton supporters.

Emphasis added because the two go together — you can't split it off and say "Oh, the nasty things you're saying are not supportive of Everton, therefore you forfeit the right to be considered an Everton supporter".

Sounds very tame... but sorry, I'm not having that. It's what it means in the context of this forum that concerns me and makes it completely unacceptable.

Brian #127, I actually looked up "seppo" when Ash used it, and it really is a mild Aussie insult for a Yank. I'll wear the title with pride -- I very much enjoy Ash's writing even when he goes off the diving board a bit. Hope he comes back.

Brent #126, that line makes you my POTM (Poster Of The Month) for November, and I'm closing the nominations.

Steve F., thanks for your advocacy, but could you give me a break on the bill? Not sure I can afford you.

Finally, Michael #117, I respect and admire the extraordinary commitment that you and Lyndon have made to this site. I hope I sufficiently expressed my appreciation in the "25 Years" thread, and I meant every word. It's safe to say that you and I have frequently, and often vehemently, disagreed on multiple issues over the years, but we've reached the point where we can fully respect and listen to each other without agreeing, and I think this is such a case. Ultimately, this is your site, and you have every right to establish the rules you consider appropriate.

I have personally come to the end of the road with Silva. Everyone wanted him to succeed because that meant we were on the up. So far, that has been far from the case.

Thing is, Bobby, you cannot leave a losing manager in place just because there is nobody available right now. Take it to the extreme: Would you leave Silva in place if, God forbid, we were anchored in the bottom 3 come New Year?

Given some of the stuff we've been serving up it probably doesn't matter very much.

You are right and I have talked with another supporter (Bill @77) who has been to all the away games who felt similar to myself on this. The away supporters are the lifeblood of any club and, if we lose them, we are fucked. However, the Club does not and should not have a divine right to be supported – it should be earning that loyalty. In my opinion. suffering a defeat to a woeful Saints side would get us to where we need to be quicker (a new manager and hopefully an overhaul of board).

Terry White,

Can you give some examples of what in my post you find "disgusting"? I mean what's happening in Syria is disgusting – this is a few posts on a forum, please advise... I am bewildered?

Some harsh language was carried over from the Forum on Saturday, however, I feel you are pipping in on behalf of your mate which is fine but the fact that he is on the site for years doesn't make him right.

I am going to leave it at this as we can all be stuck here for ever but last thing I will say on this matter, if Silva is still here in May and we are still a laughing stock while Liverpool parade their 2nd Major honour in 2 years, will we be arsed that I wanted us to lose at Southampton? Think how far behind Liverpool we are, and ask why?

@Micheal @134

Full respect for the job you and the team do on TW and I thank you for your fairness in this despite Terry asking you to make a call and then telling you what call to make!!!

I won't login on the forum on Saturday so you won't need to babysit. :) It will remain an echo chamber.

Few managers take a job because they genuinely 'love' a club. Most do it for the £s. If we accept your view that we must stick with Silva because few others are available, then we'd still be lumbered with Mike Walker!

Rob; I did consider flying down but mindful of my carbon footprint I plumped for 10 hours on the Everton coaches!

Rhyming slang used to describe American forces based over here.

I suspect it dates back to the war when they were paid far more than our boys and were able to attract all the creamy whirls (see what I did there?)

They were not very popular when off-duty – "overpaid, oversexed and over here".

With the Aussie fondness for abbreviation, it wouldn't be a great leap to work out how they came up with the term "Seppos".

See the difference in ambition and status.

We spend £500M and can't even buy a place in the top six.

What examples in your posts do I find "disgusting"? I am quite in agreement with you that what is happening in Syria, and other parts of the world, is "disgusting". However, I retain my right to be disgusted by your language and choice of words in expressing opinions that you are also quite entitled to have. It's the language to which I object. To be specific, among others, and to quote from Elizabeth Barrett Browning (no relation to our own "BB" as far as I know), "Let Me Count the Ways". Much as it pains me to repeat some of the language used by you, as I was not brought up to talk this way, at home, at school, at work.

"Now, every time I see that talentless toad Bill Kenwright sitting in our stands after lining his wallets and causing the club to have a 35-year coma, I ask the same question? How the fuck has he got away with this?"

"You're a happy clapper and a clown."

" and anybody who thinks it is unEvertonian or makes me less of a fan, they can suck my balls."

"On Saturday it looked to me like Mike Gaynes and yourself looked up from chewing the cud long enough to mooh at somebody disturbing the herd before returning to your grazing is how I saw it (lapping up Kenwright's piss-soaked nettles)".

"However, now I feel we need to lose games to get Silva out and hopefully Moshiri will show some teeth and fuck that fraud Bill Kenwright out on his ear also".

"@Don 103
Nice analogy but if Bill was running the restaurant on top of all the other issues you most lilkely (sic) would been left with a dose of the shits and find on rushing to the toliets (sic) that there was no paper !!"

"And I am inarticulate? Then HE decides that I am not a true fan??? Let them graze on BKs pissy neetles (sic) and tell us all it tastes like honey. A couple of keyboard insults not gona sway my opinions."

For the record, I am 70+ years old and do not like foul language of any kind at any time. I do not mix in circles where it is used and find it offensive. I have never met Mike Gaynes but it is true that we share a common acquaintance, someone who posts on this site and, I would consider, is also one of the most rational and reasonable posters, and who does not consider it necessary to embellish his posts with crudities they do not add anything.

Michael Kenrick is quite capable of forming his own opinions regarding what is and is not reasonable to post on this site. Consider my request for him to consider monitoring your posts to be a form of appeal to the referee to give our team a decision.

Anyway, I agree with you it is time to drop this subject. Perhaps the long-forgotten "5 post rule" should be reinstated if it were ever officially dropped? it certainly is not implemented now.

Cheers, Good Bye and COYB.

We spend £500M and can't even buy a place in the top six.

Some figures may be slightly off:
Richarlison - £45M
Bernard - free
Iwobi - £23M
Kean - £27M
Gomes - £23M
Gbamin - £23M (hasn't played)
Mina - £26M
Digne - £18M
Delph - £9M
Sidibe - £3M (loan fee)

I get £195M or thereabouts, so where does this extra £300m come from? That's a bit more than a rounding error.

1. I am spending far too much time on this site (I am off work sick right now so should be putting my energies into something more productive)

2. I do use a lot of choice language where it probably is not necessary or doesn't even help make my point at times.

3. I most definitely didn't or don't consider that there may be TWebbers reading who are offended by such language as I tend to write my posts to the people concerned who in this case had no problem using the same levels of expression on the Live Forum on Saturday.

If I was in company or in a job interview, I would not be using such bad language or would curb it as much as possible, so I can try.

"Much as it pains me to repeat some of the language used by you, as I was not brought up to talk this way, at home, at school, at work."

I am afraid to say, from where I come, it is the way we talk at home, school, work etc. I am probably worse than most but there is no point me trying to deny it. I have done okay for myself but definitely see foul or bad language as a way of expressing an opinion, although "suck my balls" is probably beneath even me... I don't find language offensive myself as long as is tied to some logic, but each to their own.

Saying that, if you find that part of what I post offensive, then fair enough. I was at times trying to offend but not like that. I will try to consider other TWebbers in future who – although not taking part in the disagreements – may well be reading and not like it; the site is for everybody after all, And before ever posting, I was myself an avid reader.

Point taken, I won't be posting much after today but, if I do, I will try to consider the public nature of the forum

And kudos for acknowledging that your appeal to the ref/mods was slightly loaded. :)

Cheers

Yeah it was just a little joke.

I think Moyes would do better than Silva right now. How much better and would it allow us to take that illusive step that Leicester seem to be making right now is the major question.

Honestly l don't think it would be a good appointment and would send the wrong message.

Regardless anyway, l want any manager that comes in, including Allardyce, or Silva, to do well for us. That includes both getting points and attractive football. And with the wages we pay we shouldn't sell ourselves short in any way. Seems to me that Silva is being left to learn on the job, like an intern (only better paid).

Imagine the team we could of had by keeping our better players over the last 3 years... then allowing some youngsters to come through like Davies, Beni, Holgate etc. Then all we would need is to add some quality additions and not the 5, 6, 7 we get each summer. I don't want any more players in January. Give the kids a chance. Chelsea have really benefited from their ban. Good for them. Not that l like Chelsea but what Lampard has done has been great so far.

This is not the Catholic church. As far as I know, you can't be excommunicated from Evertonia.

Just one request: be mindful that kids will be reading your posts. You haven't used any swear words my grand kids would not have heard... but the sexual invitations? Give them a wide berth, lad. No need.

Point taken, lad. I never would have considered young uns that maybe reading either!!

I don't want to be accused of corrupting the youth. (Again!!) Keep them well clear of the Forum if I was you.

Have never had a problem getting booted out of Churches but there was definitely a cult-ish vibe to some of what I heard on the forum on Saturday. I dunno... felt like I was the only one who thought the kool-aid had a funny taste??

Ah well, Nevermind, glug, glug, glug. :b

I have two rules:

1. I won't say anything I wouldn't say to someone's face.

2. I won't say anything that I think might make people think worse of me as a person.

I like to think that still means I have things to say, and I can argue/debate with people on here without losing any cordiality/friendship.

Why can't everyone do the same?

I agree with your rules though Paul, because like most of your posts, mate, they are well thought out and sensible!

I'm surely going to get a 10/1 winner after this post please, Paul?

Never in a million years, Tony.

"A little... often" My grandad used to say. I'm sure PT must have been listening in.

We're all bullish about Getaway Trump on Sunday, but he won't be anywhere near 10/1. I'll be looking for some value for this weekend's Cheltenham meeting, but at the moment I couldn't tip a beer mat.

Words of wisdom, Darren, and thanks for the tip David, Getaway Trump it is Paul, and whoever picked that name was definitely onto a winner.

And how am I sounding like Jimmy Krankie, Tony? Always better to take money off the enemy.

Thanks Dave, Halcyon Days is going into my horse tracker!

I think I my reply was along the lines of "I wouldnt bet on it with somebody else's money"

Thanks for the clarification, Tony. I was concerned for a minute there. And I'm only backing Trump if the price is right.

Maybe its our turn to have 4 or 5 top class youngsters come through. We are getting some glowing reports on a few of them.

#93 Jim, 3rd scenario: We lost. Silva sacked. We go down.

#148 Mr Kiernan, point No 1. I am sorry to read about you being unwell. This is written with your best interests at heart but could you get the doctor to check your meds?

I have read lots of clever, smart informative analysis about players, teams and tactics... a lot of it leaves me cold and a lot I don't understand. The only diamonds I know about are the ones my missus has and the only deep-lying centre forward was The Doog.

Far too much personal abuse. Remember when you were growing up and the sap was rising? You were told bit of self-control is needed. If Nil Satis is good enough for the club, it should be for the posters.

I first went to Goodison Park in 1954 as a schoolboy when, at an early age, I got my 'Blue Blood' injection. I've seen some good players and some poor ones...

Some musings: When the Premier League was first mooted, the Managing Director of London TV met with the big five of the First Division: Man Utd, Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur, Everton and Arsenal, to pave the way for its formation. Everton were perceived then as one of them.

The board and management has since proved we are not. They were not ready for the commercial and financial side of the Premier League and we have been left behind. Sad but true. We have been a very badly run club that has always reminded me of 'Grace Brothers' from "Are you being served?" ... The top doesn't seem to know what is happening on the shop floor.

Complete lack of communication. Nobody at Everton seems capable it. Apparently, Unsworth found out that Gordon on Saturday was a sub via The Echo.

Leicester and Liverpool doing well. Both managers speak good English and can communicate what they want to the players. I've listened intently to Marco's last two or three interviews. There are words and ideas in there but I just couldn't get them. It was like Scrabble for the ears and I still had a lot of letters left over. How does he make his point in the heat and intensity of a match?

I don't think Marco is the man for Everton. I don't think he has the wherewithal or the gravitas. When Everton are mathematically safe I think he will be gone. I hope then youth will be tried.

So lads keep up the fire, passion and hope but lose the venom.

By the by... Sur in English, a Spanish newspaper, has good little article by Rob Palmer (of Sky Sports) about Koeman and Roberto.

Give Silva a break, he's only on £3M a year poor kid. He's not expected to know what he's doing as he's learning on the job.

BTW, I recommend the Bryson book to TWers if for no other reason than the description of accompanying his son-in-law, TW denizen Chris Gould, and his two little boys to a game at Goodison in 2017. It's not only entertaining, but it explains why none of us should ever again debate Chris on any topic, but simply accept his opinion and thank him for it. Read it and you'll understand.

David #168, you seem to have a bit of Bryson in you!

Excellent, I recollect reading something about his visit to Goodison but can't remember where and when.

Too much innuendo as well.

David #154.

"I used to have a horse with her"?

As to the Bryson passage, I will post it here as an article if I can get Mr. Gould’s permission to do so.

That said, we all usually feel the need to now criticise the club – with bloody good reason for the past 35 years, I might add. I draw the line on TW at those making derogatory comments against named fellow Everton fans/supporters. You didn't do that as far as I can see, so, as said, I encourage you to continue as you are. All the best.

Rebecca Menzies trains racehorses. I bought a horse through her, a 2-year-old. But she developed a habit of reading the racing post while running. (the horse, not Rebecca). If she didn't do that she might've been a lot better. In training, she went like a rocket. As it was, though, l may as well just set fire to £1,250 a month. Don't know what l was thinking!

Rob – do you sit in Upper Gwladys and occasionally sport a coat emblazoned with your initials?

"I am sorry to read about you being unwell. This is written with your best interests at heart but could you get the doctor to check your meds?"

Thanks for the goodwill, I am gona take it as genuine, David. I spoke to my Quack regards health and meds and he told me to stop following this fucking club. :)

Unfortunately, that is a disease that is incurable after suffering it badly since early '80s and it has got progressively worse to a point were trying to fix it now would be futile. :) But I will defo be giving this site a wider berth

@Don 174

Thanks also for the goodwill, I have noted Steve's posts willl most likely come under more scrutiny with his vocal support for Silva and I have mentioned to him myself that I admire his energy and passion in fighting his corner (although I disagree on his choice of manager). He also puts a lot of work into his posts, which is a very valuble commodity for the site, and I hope he will keep contributing.

I myself don't have nearly as much energy or passion; as I mentioned before, I am feeling burned out with this club at this stage and am probably venting the last embers. I am becoming indifferent as reflected in the above debate.

Unless there is a complete change of attitude and personnel at the club and by the fans, I cannot see a time when Everton supporters will ever get the privilege of being able to rub Liverpool or Manc supporters' noses in it.

Remeber that? Well I do, but only just. :)

Ha, who you kiddin? You've been hanging on my every word – tell the truth! :)

Re yours and Jay's comments re expenditure, Jay didn't mention a specific period of time for the £500 million transfer spend...

If you take into account the money we have spent since Moyes left, when we started paying a fair amount for players, it all adds up... all figures rounded.

13-14: £30M
14-15: £36M
15-16: £44M
16-17: £77M
17-18: £182M
18-19: £90M
19-20: £108M

Total (approx) £567 million.

Of course, some of the amounts above include loan fees and players who have since left. Was it money well spent?

Info taken off Transfermarkt

Link

With respect, I don't think you should be giving this site a wide berth just because you've had some robust arguments with some other posters. To be honest, if that were a reason for not posting, the site would probably be far less interesting. Obviously it's up to you, but it seems a shame for any of us on here to be put off just because of heated debate.

Regarding personal remarks, I take the view that anyone can call me anything they want, because I'll take compliments and insults equally. ("Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me" – as I was told as a kid.) However, if someone does make personal remarks, and fail to just stick to substance, I just choose not to debate with them, because there's no point, it just becomes a slanging match in the style of Derek & Clive @84.

My shoulders are broad so not too bothered what you called me. But back the team – results make the fans happy and that is bigger than any manager.

If the point being made is that overall spending during the Moshiri era has been poor, well that appears to be correct.

If the point is that Silva “can't get a £500M team to compete,” well, that's not so fair. Neither he (nor Brands) is on the hook for the horrible personnel decisions/purchases before August 2018. Brands is trying to build a certain “type” of team, that much is clear.

Would any of the holdovers (save perhaps Pickford) be acquired now? Better yet, do any of them factor into the Club's plans beyond this season? My guess is very, very few. There aren't any cars built with parts made over a 5-year stretch, put a simpler way.

The injuries have only exacerbated the “Frankenstein monster” roster we have, and Silva has to pick from. We should count ourselves very, very lucky that fellas like Holgate & Davies have truly risen to the challenge.

Doesn't this look like a side that could challenge for a spot in Europe?

Pickford
Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gbamin Iwobi Gomes
Richarlson Kean Bernard

Davies, Calvert-Lein, maybe Sigurdsson as key subs off the bench.

It does to me!

You're right but it is not the mud-slinging, that rolls right off me back, it is just the energy needed just to have the right to have the opinion discussed in the first place.

I will stay a patron and avid reader though of TW; I certainly wont be going to the official site for my EFC news. (I am barred off posting on their forum anyways but thats another story!!)

@Steve 185

See, I knew you read me posts. :),

"But back the team – results make the fans happy and that is bigger than any manager"

I will have to agree to disagree with you on some of this. I want success, not results. You are spot on though regards the fans. But, if we had lost to The Saints on Saturday, all discussion (in the ground, on forums, on radio etc etc) would have been about our next manager and hopefully a board reshuffle.

I feel Kenwright's influence even more now in the club with his new "stepped back" role... Dangerous shit that, near impossible to oust him now, as looks like you're picking on an innocent old man... crafty prick!

Also, just on an aside, I just read this in an article from Pat Nevin (usually a level headed pundit):

“I was at the Tottenham game last Sunday, and that was the quietest I've ever, ever heard Goodison Park in my entire life,” said Pat, who made over 100 appearances for the Toffees in the late 1980s and 90s.

“The fans looked as if they've chucked it – they couldn't even bring themselves to boo, it was that bad. It was as if they were just waiting for the hangman to turn up."

It's not cheering for Spurs, I grant you, but I am not the only one feeling this shit and, come May, when Liverpool are parading the Premier League trophy, it is gonna come home to roost.

The fans should always come first – they deserve so much better and need to get angry and belligerent, I feel.

Everton is like strong drink, too much is bad for your health. Maybe cut back your consumption. The old WW2 poster comes to mind:

"Like Dad, keep Mum"