Everton grateful for rare away win but Silva still has plenty to prove

By Lyndon Lloyd 09/11/2019 191comments  |  Jump to last

Good grief! An away win.

This was an absolutely vital victory in the context of Everton’s Premier League survival as it lifted them six points clear of the drop zone with around a third of the season gone but the performance that underpinned it was largely unconvincing in terms of advancing Marco Silva’s claim to be the man to realise the club’s ambitions at the top end of the Premier League.

It’s true that the Portuguese would have expected more from his attacking unit than a mere five shots on target from 24 efforts at goal in the 90 minutes (just one fewer than Leicester’s shot tally in their 9-0 win here two weeks ago) but in many ways that was down the personnel selected.

Because Silva seemed to have looked at the formula that Leicester used to inflict that Premier League record away win — pace and direct running — and opted for something very different, dropping the quick-footed Alex Iwobi to the bench in favour of the pedestrian Gylfi Sigurdsson, deploying the willing but one-paced Cenk Tosun up front and leaving Moise Kean, a player who could have used a cameo off the bench had Everton been sufficiently ahead by that time to start rebuilding his confidence, out of the squad altogether.

The result was dominance by the Blues in the first half in particular but a familiar lack of the kind of cutting edge and decisiveness in the final third that would have seen them out of sight by half-time against a Saints side that felt like it was teetering on the edge of another capitulation for most of the first half after Tom Davies had nodded the visitors into the lead.

By the end, after Richarlison had restored Everton’s lead, Silva had resorted to throwing Michael Keane on as the “Moyes sub” to shore things up and the Toffees were hanging a bit for the final whistle. And with some justification because, worryingly, on the very few occasions that Southampton showed the merest gumption, managed to put together some concerted pressure and play some football, Everton looked vulnerable and there was a depressing inevitability and familiarity about the equaliser early in the second half.

Ultimately, it was Everton’s superior quality that told, securing a first away win since March and providing a platform from which to try and build a run of form.

With André Gomes out for the next few months, Davies will almost certainly form an important part of that platform and, together with Mason Holgate, the young midfielder once again grabbed his chance to impress with an assured performance, not to mention his first goal for two seasons.

The pair combined in the fifth minute after both Richarlison and Sigurdsson had had shots charged down and the latter’s effort went behind for a corner. Lucas Digne’s delivery from the right was headed towards the far post by Holgate where Davies stole in untracked to head home.

There was a couple of moments in the next 10 minutes where the Blues’ rearguard looked a little open and uncertain but in one instance Djibril Sidibé, deservedly starting again in place of Seamus Coleman, was in smartly to snuff out the danger posed by Nathan Redmond and Everton comfortably dealt with the resulting corner.

At the other end, Theo Walcott was in purposeful mood and he sent Tosun in behind the defence but Jack Stephens denied him with a sliding block before the winger was fouled by Yannik Vestergaard and Sigurdsson’s wicked free-kick just eluded the extended foot of Mina.

In between, Walcott and Tosun had combined nicely with a one-two move that ended with the former chipping a cross to the back stick for the Turk but he couldn’t keep his header down and a gilt-edged chance to add to his goal last Sunday against Spurs went begging.

Walcott forced Alex McCarthy in the Southampton goal to beat away his cross from the byline, Davies’s sliced cross almost drifted into the top corner before the keeper tipped it over to safety and Digne scooped over with his weaker foot after Sigurdsson had played him in with a neat pass.

Overall, however, the feeling at half-time was that Everton were standing over a wounded animal but without the wherewithal to deliver the killer blow and the fear, of course, was that it would come back to haunt them in the second half.

It took just five minutes for that sense of deja vu to set in. Sofiane Boufal, a change made at the interval by Ralph Hasenhüttl, had an instant impact on the context, forcing the first save of the afternoon from Jordan Pickford and then serving up yet another goal against Everton for Danny Ings.

As Southampton collected Mina’s clearance from a corner, the Moroccan easily drove along the byline past Schneiderlin and when his low centre took a deflection off Mina, the ball fell to Ings almost on the goal-line and he couldn’t miss to level the match at 1-1.

Rather than stumble, however, Everton responded by going back on the offensive but after McCarthy pushed Sigurdsson’s strong shot over, the Blues were again let down by poor decision-making in the final third.

Tosun dragged a shot across the face of goal with three team-mates queuing up in the middle looking for a square pass and Richarlison squandered a great chance with an hour gone when he was sent away down the left channel but he elected not to shoot, tried to drag it back onto his right foot and had the ball taken off him.

Back at the other end, meanwhile, Mina was fortunate not to be penalised when he unnecessarily flung Moussa Djenepo aside in his own box seeing the ball behind for a goal kick before Sidibé chopped the same player down on the edge of the area and James Ward-Prowse arrowed a free-kick towards the top corner only to be foiled by a flying save from Pickford.

Then, just before Silva made a double substitution that introduced Iwobi and Dominic Calvert-Lewin at the expense of Walcott and Tosun, Holgate went close to scoring his second Everton goal when Digne’s long throw-in bounced over Stuart Armstrong but the defender’s header dropped onto the roof of the net.

Iwobi had barely been on the pitch a minute before playing an important role in the winning goal. His pass released Sidibé down the right wing and the Frenchman whipped in a peach of a cross behind the home defence that was met on the volley and steered in by Richarlison.

Iwobi himself almost made it 3-1 after Digne had cut the ball back from the byline but the Nigerian’s shot on the turn was deflected inches wide and his attempted volleyed pass back towards the six-yard box from a free-kick a few minutes later was deflected onto the outside of the post by a Saints defender.

And Iwobi was involved again five minutes from the end when his slide-rule pass split the defence for Calvert-Lewin but Vestergaard did well to get back and slide in to block the striker’s shot behind for a corner.

While the elusive third goal never arrived and the slender lead meant that the closing stages weren’t comfortable, Everton were able to see the match out and secure what were three hugely important points for Silva.

The result leaves the Blues sitting just three points off fifth place but that is a reflection of the poverty of the clubs outside the top four — this Everton side as it is currently playing and being managed shouldn’t belong in any conversation involving European qualification. And, yet, a win over Norwich at Goodison Park in a fortnight’s time would have them very much in the mix; it’s the difficult run of fixtures looming in December that will be the real test, though, and Silva has plenty of work to do convince supporters and the Board alike that he can deliver over the medium to long term.

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Reader Comments (191)

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Kase Chow
1 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:36:09
So glad we won - was much needed

I so want Silva to succeed but when he plays Schneiderlin ahead of

1) Iwobi why can’t we play Siggy as the midfield 2 like he played for Swansea and put Iwobi in AMF? (What does Schneiderlin bring? He gave away the equaliser (plus nearly gave away a pen if Boufal had fallen) and defensive midfield is supposed to be his specialism!!!!)

2) DCL I’m all for giving Tosun a go but a lone striker he is not (neither is Moise Kean). Why not get the best out of them by playing DCL as a target man?? And I know that would mean a 442 but I don’t see that our nominal 433 has been particularly successful

Then I despair and want to get rid of Silva

Silva’s football should be improving either results, performances or both. Yet results are rubbish and performances are largely boring and pedestrian (albeit I didn’t see today’s game)

Very happy we won but we need it to kick start a run of performances and results or it’s meaningless and a slow painful death of Silva that we have to endure watching

Steve Ferns
2 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:41:22
Kase, I never saw Sigurdsson play midfield for Swansea. I did not watch every game so you may very well be right. Whenever I saw him he was in a free role behind the big striker or he was shoved out to the left wing. I have never seen him play deep, and I don't think he can. I think Iwobi is even worse there (others suggested this not Kase). Both are better in the danger areas.

Schneiderlin is no where near our best XI, but when Gomes, Gbamin, and Delph are injured, then we have no option but to play him. I think he did very well today except for one massive mistake. But he's in the team to stop things like that so his performance has to drop a couple of marks as a result.

John Raftery
3 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:48:43
As a matter of interest today’s starting front four of Walcott, Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Tosun was the same front four which started Silva’s first match as our manager at Wolves in August 2018. At times today they looked as though they had hardly played together since then, which of course is the case! While all of them did some good things, there was an obvious lack of conviction once we reached the final third of the field.

Davies and Holgate both had good games and at both ends of the field. Both deserve to keep their places. We badly need them to maintain their recent form. Equally we need some of the more experienced players, such as Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott and Tosun to improve theirs and on a consistent basis. Those four cost over £110m. All were inherited by Silva and Brands and it was slightly alarming to note they were back in the team today. While injuries are undoubtedly a factor it highlights how little progress has been made in the last sixteen months.

Steve Ferns
4 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:05:17
John, those four are the problem players though. Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Walcott, Keane and Pickford are at the very top of wage bill. None were signed by Brands. Most of us would like to see 2, maybe 3, and some 4 of them leave. But their wages prevent that. Pickford could probably be sold for good money. So he shouldn't really be in the conversation (yeah I brought him up) but these are the big money players who we are forced to utilise as their contracts wind down.

Silva has played Pickford in every league game. He clearly likes him, even if he is does not fit the profile of the type of goalie he usually uses (6'4"+ giants). Keane was resurgent last season and has regressed this. Now he's dropped out the side we look a lot better at the back. I think this reflects that Mina is better than Keane and that Holgate goes better with him than Keane does.

Schneiderlin is on £100,000 per week. He cost £23m. No one else will pick up that wage, let alone give us our money back. Sigurdsson is on £125,000 per week. He cost us more than £40m. Same applies. Walcott is on £100,000 a week, and cost us £20m+. Tosun cost £27m and is on £60,000. These players are getting massive salaries and don't deliver the performances to justify them. Imagine if we could magic them away and have £400,000 per week to offer in wages and over £110m to spend in transfer fees. I don't think Silva would ask Brands to sign any of them, even if he does play them. I don't think Brands would consider signing them.

But this is the task at hand. Getting rid of the overly expensive players on massive wages. But we've got another 18 months of Walcott and Schneiderlin and another 30 months of Sigurdsson and Tosun.

It's a big job to get rid of overpaid stars who are not performing to the level that justifies the salary, and yet to move the side up the league. We need a bit of patience with Brands in that regard.

Mike Allison
5 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:15:19
Our problems are all about psychology and mentality so detailed discussion of who should play where and when isn’t massively important for me. Our players are good enough to win almost any game, as they showed towards the end of last season, but they seem fragile and low on confidence. The Brighton penalty was absolutely horrific from that point of view as they seemed to have found a way to get a tough win, with Calvert-Lewin a match winning centre forward, only to have it snatched away from them.

In a strange way I think the Gomes injury may have galvanised the team and had a positive effect on them psychologically. Perhaps they’ve found some extra determination and will to win that they didn’t seem to be able to find before. Silva’s career seems to have had these long streaks in them and we’ve found this out ourselves in his time at Everton. He needs to prove he can turn a bad streak into a good one much quicker. If he can then this can still be a good season. Especially if you look at the league table rather than our performances so far.

Thomas Lennon
6 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:25:35
Everton, ManU, Wolves and Spur lined up in the bottom half with a third of the season gone. Interesting times. 6th by the end.
John Raftery
7 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:45:09
Steve (4) I think we are in heated agreement. Silva and Brands have little option now but to drag what they can from those players while bringing through one or two youngsters when the moment is right. The injuries to Bernard, Gomes and Delph have not helped of course.
Stan Schofield
8 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:53:51
John, this may sound odd, but the injuries to Bernard, Gomes, Delph and Gbamin could turn out to be a spur to us. When things are going against you, injuries and officiating beyond your control, it can sometimes be the motivation you need to light a spark. You feel under strength, feel you have to fight extra hard, feel the camaraderie that comes from the injustice of it. And that fight can be the making of you.
David Pearl
9 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:59:24
We have those players and it's up to the manager to get the best out of them. If played the right way they can deliver and should give us more productivity. Schneiderlin had a good game apart from being so flat footed for when we conceded. That was disappointing from him. The team played well overall and we have better players than the opposition but lacking that bit of confidence and skill that should see us putting these games to bed a lot easier. Unfortunately we have yet another international break when l'd of preferred a quick run of games to boost confidence. Lets hope they all come back focussed. One thing l like from Silva these days is that he is picking players on current form and what he sees in training. I've got no problem leaving Kean out, we don't have to rush him. If we do play Tosun, we have to play more to his strengths. Its been proven time and again that a wide 4231 isn't the best for him. 3 points anyway, and its all to play for.
Darren Hind
10 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:00:24
Sounds very odd Stan.

But I share your belief

Paul Birmingham
11 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:03:42
Steve, appreciation, for the business side reality check to “the business” side of EFC.

Staggering sums of money, being flushed down the RBM, and maybe BMD, if it does happen.

As a business model, it’s scary.

Sticking to football is precarious, but there’s some green shoots, with the current team, and Iam airing on the ability to believe and grow confidence.

For me this seasons preseason games,started the rot, but last week and today some signs of bone marrow growing in the team.

Mina for me, could be the base of a new core, but Tom Davies, if he keeps his belief, could and I really hope do a Lazarus, and become and become a key cog in the engine room of the midfield.

His confidence, in my view is increasing every game, and I think the shackles are being undone, and the butterfly will emerge, as a player; if he believes, he can and I am sure, he will do it.

Over the years many players over written, under written, squashed and one way or another, they prove they can do it.

One of the best and most under rated players was Lee Carsley, did we ever replace him?

In my view no, Gana, was everything, a dynamo, but it’s a different era, but we need a player like Lee Carsley, and we have suitors in the squad but none are close.

Tom Davies, now has the best chance ever, of cracking the “code” at Everton..

But next week and Norwich. The team must be be tuned in all week,and then win the game.

Big bucks and that’s some kind of town, and reality these exceptionally high earners,

Paul Birmingham
12 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:07:33
Aspire to, but Everton, must come first.
Jerome Shields
13 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:08:06
Its a relieve that we got this away win. On to Norwich at home needing a win also.

No matter what, Everton need to get through this year without a change of Manager, with the proviso that we end the season clear of the relegation zone and aleast at the same position as last. A good run in cups would not go amiss either.

Change at this stage would be no use to Everton progressing in future years, mainly because there is no one out there with a magic wand to turn Everton around. Everton need stablity first and then they can progress to the next level.

Tony Abrahams
14 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:22:27
Holgate, has definitely got leadership qualities, he’s got that arrogance that good players have, but he’s still very, very, inexperienced and still makes stupid mistakes, but suddenly the team are starting to play higher up the pitch, the centre-forward isn’t getting isolated, and these are the small crumbs of comfort I am taking off the last couple of games that Mina, has played alongside him.

Davies, whilst also inexperienced is moving the ball quicker, he never hides and his positional play has definitely improved, just like Everton have, since him and Holgate have started getting more game time.

Steve Hogan
15 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:23:35
Steve (4)

How can you be 100% sure all the players you have mentioned are earning those specific amounts?

Only the player, his agent and the club are privy to that information.
Again, can you confirm your source about the accuracy of those player's salaries.

Paul Jeronovich
16 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:25:20
Good win under pressure today; if we can beat Norwich then we have a bit of a platform going in to December's fixture nightmare. COYB
Raymond Fox
17 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:26:11
Well done and an hooray for a vital win, I don't want to spoil the party but we have an horrendous list of fixtures coming up.
We should beat Norwich but after that - - - help!
Stan Schofield
19 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:31:18
Darren@10: Last season, when we were playing well, you wrote that article, about the lion that roars within us. It was a great piece, inspiring.

Silva confuses me, but I see glimpses of possibly great things. When an old Evertonian like you, who has expressed such scepticism about some of our previous incumbents (like Koeman), writes a piece like that one about the lion within us, I tend to think there are different things happening here, despite the odd decisions that are being made. It helps provide belief. That's what we need at the moment, belief.

Paul A Smith
20 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:36:56
The 1-2 with Tosun and Walcott in the air in Southampton's box was pure class today.

If that had been finished by Tosun, we would be talking about that and nothing else today.

Steve Ferns
21 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:50:49
Steve Hogan, those are the values reported on various sites such as Sportrac. Everton have to publish accounts. I assume that's where they get it from.
Tony Marsh
22 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:41:39
Southampton lost 9-0 the last time they played a home game at so let's have some perspective here. Silva needs to go as today was horrendous against a team certain to play in the Championship next season.

Evertons total lack of a cohesive game plan is all down to Marco Silva's ineptitude. We don't exploit the weaknesses of other teams – we just go out and play and see what happens. If it's not going well we pull players off and throw other ineffective players on with No real purpose in what we do. Very reminiscent of the Moyes years and Silva is just as gormless as Deadly Dave ever was.

Yes, I am happy with the win which means we are not under as greater pressure going in to December but the downside is more time for Morbid Marco and his dodgy Joe Columbo mack. I can't bare to look at Silva any more and listening to him is even worse. I always believe a football team reflects the manager in charge of them. Everton are a perfect example of this.

The clowns running this club have got the fans happy and smiling with 13th place in the table and that tells the story of the club's lack of ambition. As long as Silva stays here we will remain a mid-table nothing club. As long as we stay in the Premier League, doing fuck all but surviving, Kenwright will tell Moshiri that everything is okay and Farhad will believe him. And so it goes.

Steve Hogan
23 Posted 09/11/2019 at 00:01:58
Steve (21)

They may publish values, but not specific salaries, and indeed Everton are 'obliged' by law to publish accounts, but you can only second guess what each member of the squad earns.

With respect, anyone can assume what certain players are earning. without a shred of proof really.

John Pierce
24 Posted 10/11/2019 at 00:29:37
Overall a feeling of relief. To say I'm enjoying the victory is going overboard; I'm just happy not to be screaming at the TV.

Injuries and suspensions have forced Silva's hand. He should be thanking his lucky stars because up to that point he had shown no inclination to promote Sidibe nor did Davies look like even 5th choice. Even Holgate's emergence has come with a twist of fate.

But I can't help but feel he will regress back. Take Sigurdsson. Back in the team after Iwobi had a poor game shunted out wide last week. Yet Siggy was given weeks to hang himself before Silva saw the light.

How is that even any form of meritocracy? The message it sends is a poor one. Yet again Iwobi was involved in the goal.

I still find Silva seeking tactical perfection (in a league which won't allow it) and not using the functionality the squad he has. Perhaps if he can harness this then build a more prosaic platform he could survive?

He is still living hand to mouth each week. The lack of alternatives is damning and frankly is saving his ass, as is the stunning mediocrity of the league.

Karl Masters
25 Posted 10/11/2019 at 01:12:24
Steve Hogan. Sportrac looks pretty well informed to me. Take a look, all teams are listed.

Whilst I agree you can’t ‘know’ for sure, it seems unlikely a whole site is based on guesswork.

Steve Ferns
26 Posted 10/11/2019 at 01:20:47
Steve, those guys are all on big wages though, surely? If they are out it can’t be by more than 20k a week each. Surely the point that we have players on massive wages that we cannot sell is a valid one? Do you disagree with this?
John Boon
27 Posted 10/11/2019 at 02:00:52
This season, when we win, the reaction is relief, as opposed to delight due to the brilliance displayed on the field. That is because we rarely play brilliantly. However in every game, we have periods where the team knits together and shows flashes of really good football. Unfortunately, this is only for short periods of time. To me, this shows that the main problem is consistency.

Generally, I thought we played well today. While we are reminded that Leicester laced them 9-0, we must also remember that a week later they were close to winning at Man City.

I agree to a large degree with Mike (5). I also think we can beat any team on the day but lack of confidence and self-belief has a negative effect on the individual players and the team. I also think we have had an inordinate amount of really bad luck.

I was impressed today by our younger players. I think more of them need to be introduced into the team. I do NOT think we are getting the best out of Kean. I just don't want to see young talent wasted.

Dick Fearon
28 Posted 10/11/2019 at 03:01:00
Tony @ 14, I was thinking the same as you about Holgate's leadership potential.

It was noticeable that at least 4 times he was quickly on the scene with a "Let's get on with the game and no mucking about" attitude as he pulled Richarlison back to his feet.

I also saw him several times with a fierce look on his face delivering some "Lift your game" advice to older players.

Kieran Kinsella
29 Posted 10/11/2019 at 03:14:25

That’s true. But more importantly, did you rough up Harry Catterick?

Jay Harris
30 Posted 10/11/2019 at 04:04:17

You can't go by the game against Man City. They literally just parked the bus had a couple of breakaways where they scored from one but otherwise it was like the Alamo and eventually Man City won 2-1.

I said before today's game that they wouldn't and couldn't play like that at home and that we would have plenty of opportunities to score but I was concerned about our inability to score and our propensity for conceding goals.

I believe that's how the game panned out and, although I am relieved and delighted to have gotten a much-needed 3 points (It was a 6-pointer really), my concerns still remain.

Our open play can be entertaining at times but, like Martinez's reign, we leave ourselves open to leak goals and if we can't score the goals to reflect the chances we create, then we won't get the results.

James Hill
31 Posted 10/11/2019 at 04:20:53
Good win and much needed. But God it's painful waiting for this below-average coach to be sent packing. After Norwich is a scary prospect. We could be firmly in the bottom 3 by the end of January.
Alan J Thompson
32 Posted 10/11/2019 at 04:37:30
Stan (#8); For a moment there I thought you were going to bring up Dunkirk which at best was a 0-0 away first leg. "And that's for bombing our shelters!" is what we really need.
Kieran Kinsella
33 Posted 10/11/2019 at 04:42:16

Pretty sure Dunkirk was a VAR deal based on lack of activity for ages.

Steve Brown
34 Posted 10/11/2019 at 04:43:16
Circumstances and terrible injuries can inspire a team to fight back - it creates a siege mentality with the right manager. Joe Royle was a master of it, so come on Marco show some defiance. It could also force senior players like Schneiderlin, Walcott and Sigurddson to show more accountabilty in their performances. I am a bit more sceptical about that though.

It has definitely forced Silva to give the young players like Davies and Holgate extended runs in the team in their preferred position; Calvert-Lewin and Gordon also featured on the bench. The team that started against Southampton (and the subs brought on) was young and will be inconsistent, but that can change with the confidence that winning brings. The new model is to sign players under 26 years old and bring players through the Academy players, but Silva has buckled under pressure and relied for most of the season on Schneiderlin, Sigurddson and Walcott. Experienced players who were signed under the last two regimes in big salaries – as Steve Ferns points out. They have not justified his decision.

Also, there were one or two posters in the live forum who ranted throughout against Silva, even after the final whistle. One even said he was indifferent to the result – I won't name him but he can across as a right Jerk. Any blues fan who would prefer a defeat due to hatred of a manager or to prove their point should go and take a long hard look in the mirror.

Mike Gaynes
35 Posted 10/11/2019 at 06:55:01
Tony Marsh #22, you posted a couple of the most disgusting Forum posts I have ever seen when you directly blamed Silva for Gomes' horrendous injury -- some bilious crap about Gomes breaking his leg because Silva's incompetence had us chasing the game. You may be one of TW's senior members, but whatever the flaws of the manager, the one I can't "bare" to look at is you.
Tony Everan
36 Posted 10/11/2019 at 07:23:37
Just as an aside whilst talking about big money signings and mega-wages.

The three standout players on the pitch yesterday were Tom Davies, Mason Holgate and Sidibie. Academy, £2M, loan.

Mason's contract expires in 18 months, I think we should be looking at extending that right now. I expect Mr Brands to be ahead of the curve with regards contracts for our young talent.

We have all season to look at Sidibé, but at £12M to exercise the option to make the loan permanent needs to be seriously considered. It's looking a real bargain in today's market. He has a touch of class about him, sublime cross yesterday for the winning goal and just as good late tackle out wide to stop a Southampton breakaway attack. I was impressed with him.

Duncan McDine
37 Posted 10/11/2019 at 07:33:02
Waking up happy this morning. I’m officially an old git (the big 40 today) and had a great day watching us beat a very poor Southampton yesterday. We got soaked on the way there and the footy from both teams was pretty dire, but we won... away!!!!! Now for a day of hopefully being spoiled by my girls. Up the Toffees!
Darren Hind
38 Posted 10/11/2019 at 07:33:49
I forgot about that article Stan. Seems an awful long time ago.

You are 100% correct when you say fete played a hand in Silva's selection, but as you know, that's how these things often happen.
Alex Ferguson was reportedly moments from the sack when a youngster (was it Mark Robins ? ) altered the course of premier league history and no Evertonian will need reminding of the effect Kevin Brock's back pass had on ours.

Dear Howard and Fergie both drank in the last chance saloon, but just when we all thought they were about to be turfed out, fete intervened and bought them another bevy.

Tony Everan
39 Posted 10/11/2019 at 07:44:24
Happy birthday Duncan , 40...old git ? Don't think so.

I have got underpants older than that.

Paul Smith
40 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:07:55
Happy Birthday Duncan, good to see you both yesterday. What a difference a win makes in rain sodden circumstances.

A good win yesterday thought Sidibe made a monumental mess of controlling the cross field ball in the lead up to their goal but made up for it with a cracking cross for Richy.

Telling how animated Marco and Boa Morte were and Mason was excellent along with Mina and Tom.

Silva keeps pulling it back from the brink and has my suppprt to turn it around.

Can't understand some of the personal insults banded about on this site sometimes for me it ruins a healthy obsession but that's TW.

Ralph Basnett
41 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:22:23
Dare I say it but an expected result that a poor Everton side beat an even poorer Southampton.

A couple of injuries and Silva reverts back to the old guard of Schneiderlin and Sigurdson even though they are crap!

Great to see Lineker congratulating us on our first away win in the league, we are only 12 games in FFS!!!!!

Mark Murphy
42 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:34:25
I had a very enjoyable day, meeting some good blues, and watching Everton play well and win in front of a very supportive and positive away support.
I don’t know what’s wrong with some people on here but I’m glad you weren’t sat next to me at the match.
Brian Williams
43 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:40:16
Nice one Mark. 👍
Duncan McDine
44 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:41:35
Hehe very good Tony - they don’t make em like they used to.

Cheers Paul - sorry we didn’t get much of a chance to talk yesterday I completely agree with your match/player assessment. Also feel that Silva is showing the right commitment and fighting spirit to at least buy some time. We still looked quite poor at times, but luckily Southampton were bloody awful!

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
45 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:47:37
Anyone any idea how many points we got last year from the 12 fixtures we have played so far this year? Not games, but the same fixtures.

Stand by for a shock. Twelve. Yes, 12. Last season we took 2 points less from these fixtures than we have this year.

An even bigger surprise. Last full set of fixtures, so the last results from playing each team twice, Champions League final Spurs have taken just 2 more points than us.

Much as we think we are awful, much as we think we are going to get relegated, there are lot of even worse teams out there and perhaps our real frustration is that Leicester are 8 points better than last season and in the mix with the Sky 6 and it should have been us.

P.S. Bad news, next 6 fixtures, we took 13 points last year including winning at Leicester and home to Chelsea. 27 points at Christmas and we should relax - and pinch ourselves because we think we are dreaming.

Derek Knox
46 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:51:02
Tony Everan, agree that Davies, Holgate and Sidibe all impressed yesterday, and is a reflection of how unbalanced the wage structure versus overall contribution is at the moment.

As you're probably aware I have always wanted to see the youngsters introduced, even if it be on the bench, as was Anthony Gordon yesterday, (I applaud Silva for that) but unfortunately got no game time yesterday.

Pity about another International Break preventing us again from building on yesterday's win, and getting a head of steam up.

Oh, and by the way Tony mate I think it's time you treated yourself to some new underpants! 😋

Mal van Schaick
47 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:55:13
It was a gritty performance and win. There was a balance to the team on both flanks and we showed good fighting spirit in midfield. Holgate had a decent game. If this is what it takes Everton to stay out of the bottom three so be it. I don t know where the quality will come from to make us better than a mid table team.
Tony Abrahams
48 Posted 10/11/2019 at 09:05:31
More than 40 years old, and he's an Evertonian Derek, with the most obvious conclusion being that they must be his lucky undies!

Happy birthday, Duncan, I hope that old adage is true for you, mate!

Stan Schofield
49 Posted 10/11/2019 at 09:16:08
Alan@32: If I wanted a war reference for motivation, I'd have chosen the bombing of our chippies. I wasn't around to see any bombing, but I used to live in Robson St., where there were three great chippies: Stan's (English), Charlie's (Greek), and Yee's (Chinese). The thought of such excellent centres of international cuisine being threatened with aerial bombardment is enough to motivate anyone for a good old fight.
Derek Knox
50 Posted 10/11/2019 at 09:51:44
Tony A, good point but it only reinforces my suggestion, Tony's 'lucky undies/pants' aren't working and basically haven't for the last 24 years. Time for change!

Apologies to Duncan McDine, it was remiss of before not to wish you all the best on reaching a significant milestone in your life, hope you enjoy your day mate.

If you get an embarrassment of undergarments as presents, maybe you could help Tony out! 😁😋

Brian Harrison
51 Posted 10/11/2019 at 12:01:03
The result was everything yesterday, as a loss would have put us in the relegation zone and thats not a place you want to be with the games coming up in December. Lets hope we can follow this up with a win against Norwich, which is just as important as winning yesterday.

I know many posters were not convinced that Holgate and Davies were worth their places, I would suggest that these two lads have proved that they definitely are worth their place in this team. I feel a lot more assured with Holgate alongside Mina than I do when Keane plays, also I think Davies gives us more energy in midfield and he is always looking to play it early and normally he looks for a forward pass.

But and for me its a big but, I don't think Silva and Brands share the same ideas in the players that have been bought since the two came together. How much discussion they have with one another before a player is bought I don't know, but team selection would indicate that there is a massive divide between the two of them. Highlighted again yesterday when Kean isn't on the bench although he travelled so I presume he was fit to play if selected. To sign a young 19 year old from Italy for £30 million who hadnt had a full season in the Italian league was madness. Did Brands really believe that young Kean who spoke little English would come in and hit the ground running, when we have seen top seasoned Internationals struggle when they first came into the Premier league. Thierry Henry a super talented footballer struggled in his first season and he had played a lot of top class football before joining Arsenal. I think there has also been a few other instances were Brands and Silvas ideas clash I think Iwobi is another Buy that Silva doesnt seem to fancy.. This also happened when our previous DOF bought another supposedly exciting young striker when he bought Sandro, again our manager then Koeman didnt seem to rate him. So he has been out on loan for practically 2 years and no doubt we are paying most of his reported £100,000 per week.

But besides this I don't think Silva knows what his best 11 is, I know we have a few players out injured, but we have Holgate and Davies in the starting line ups but werent considered at the start of the season. Also Tosun another who Silva was quite happy to see leave the club now starts yesterday. DCL who had played a lot of the earlier games now has been relegated to the subs bench. So for me it doesnt augur well when the DOF and manager have different ideas and the manager is miles away from knowing his best 11.

John Hammond
52 Posted 10/11/2019 at 12:07:29
God how we needed those 3 points, away and all, and Norwich next at home. Let's hope we don't get any more injuries over the International break and it gives Silva more time to fix things.

Despite our poor run, everyone else bar the top 4 hasn't been playing particularly well either hence why we're only 3 points off 5th.

As for the December fixtures from hell, I can still see us picking up points. These teams can't keep winning forever.

Dick Fearon
53 Posted 10/11/2019 at 12:12:48
Keiran K@29, I had many disagreements with the Harry's tactics and team selection but it never reached the 'roughing up' level.

At months end I will be double Duncans age and that leads me to appreciate the Catt's magnificent contribution to our 'Istry'. After a particularly ignominious team performance he said while rubbing his hands. "I can't wait for one of that lot to come knocking on my door looking for a wage rise."

Jason Lloyd
54 Posted 10/11/2019 at 12:22:16
Someone mentioned it earlier, football is about good partnerships and we've lacked any good partnerships so when the team plays its disjointed.

There are a few players in the team that are too individual, this is why players like Holgate, Davies and Sidibe are making greater contributions because they are working with their partners more, despite less football talent.

Bill Watson
55 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:15:29
Walking to the ground I was chatting with some of their supporters who reckoned this was the worst Saints side in years but saw us as the ideal opponents after the Leicester drubbing. That's a measure of how far we've fallen!

Once again, Silva's team selections were baffling. Calvert-Lewin suddenly starts finding the net so is dropped to the bench! Southampton are susceptible to pace so he plays the decidedly slow Tosun and Sigurdsson.

I thought Davies and Holgate were the pick but, once again, we failed to turn the screw and set ourselves up for the inevitable fightback.
Apart from being left for dead for their goal Schneiderlin's wayward pass to our left wing set up their initial attack in the first place.

On the plus side we weathered the storm and picked up a very welcome 3 points albeit against a piss poor side.

I feel this was despite Silva and not because of him but it's probably bought him a bit more time before his inevitable dismissal.

Top tip for Tony: if your undies are getting a bit manky, try turning them inside out. Works a treat (or so I'm told)!

Francis van Lierop
56 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:38:48
Winning was vital, and finally we won an away match!

A somewhat weird match for me, I didn't have time to check the line-ups before the match.
The stream I had began with Thai commentary.
It buffered nearly continuously, and had English commentary for a while, before turning to Chinsese for the remainder of the match.
In the 21st minute! I learned that Schneiderlin was playing I had not noticed him beforehand.
Even more positive is we won with him playing.
Though of course he was mostly to blame for their goal.
Like others have mentioned, it's good that Mason Holgate and Tom Davies played well.

Ronald Koeman called up Calvin Stengs (20) and Myron Boadu (19) for the national squad for the first time.
Both are from my local, and Marcel Brands' old club, AZ Alkmaar.
Both players show that football can be fun.
This is what we need to see from our youngsters, when selected of course, but that's what most of us want.

Christopher Timmins
57 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:52:29
Lyndon, the manager has plenty to prove indeed, still a win is a win and I can't see any change in manager taking place this side of the City game in early January.

It has to be said that the manager has still not worked out what his best team is. How many different permutations has he tried up front in the course of the last 4 or 5 games? It can't be a help to any player to know that 1 bad game means you don't start the following one. Calvert-Lewin is not prolific by any means but he did score 5 in a 6 game run and that should have cemented his place for a number of games.

I just hope that by the time we play Burnley at Christmas that it does not take on the same significance as yesterday's game.

If there has to be a short term change after Christmas and I hope results in the coming weeks take this issue off the table, then Moyes is the answer, not Hughes.

Jim Harrison
58 Posted 10/11/2019 at 14:21:56
Southampton indeed lost 9-0 last time out at home. They also played nearly 80 minutes with 10 men. 9-0 is a freak result.

Martin Mason
59 Posted 10/11/2019 at 17:04:06
My son who's been a Southerner all of his life and not more than a notional Blue went down to the game yesterday with some of his mates from the South coast none of who support Everton. They'd won tickets for all inclusive box, meals, drinks, etc.

They all said that while the experience was great, the game was pretty crap but that we should be really proud of our supporters who made the journey.

Mark Dunford
60 Posted 10/11/2019 at 17:51:56
A win that pulls the team slightly further ahead of the relegation trio and may well prove enough to keep Silva in post till the end of the year. Make no mistake - and despite the awful VAR luck, bad injuries - this has been a shocking start to the season where we've played badly, consistently, and struggled through a soft run of fixtures, and have yet to play the better sides. Silva doesn't know his best side and seems reluctant to use the younger players. Who can guess what Kean makes of this? He must be regretting his move. What about Beniingme and the other promising youngsters? -All deemed good enough by Unsworth yet hardly on the bench. December looks ominous so the next fixture against Norwich takes on greater importance. Heading for mid table at best.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
61 Posted 10/11/2019 at 18:41:17
Mark #60. Soft? We actually got more this season than from the same fixtures as last season. So we did pretty awful in those same soft fixtures last season.
Martin Mason
62 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:19:19
I'm softening a little. To get rid of Silva now would be a disaster and humiliation for the club.

He has lost his coaching partner and he is in the early stages of a new partnership. He also has possibly the biggest problem that a coach could have and that is of inheriting two overpaid and underperforming midfielders who he can't fit in, can't play in his systems yet who expect to be picked and with a top management who perhaps insist on it. Who would buy either of them?

I say he must be given until the end of the season, he must be allowed to produce an unexpected miracle which must be delivered from within. Any new manager is a massive and unknown risk with no guarantee that in a year we won't be in the same position. We're in a lose/lose situation and sacking coaches won't necessarily change that.

Tony Abrahams
63 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:27:49
I agree with you Martin, but don’t start turning into the duke again mate!

I’m glad your son and his mates enjoyed Everton’s away support, which can’t be beaten imo Martin, how could it be when they haven’t won a cup for 25 years and sell out absolutely everywhere they go?

Danny Baily
64 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:32:13
Agree with posts saying that now is not the right time to sack Silva. Had he lost yesterday then it would have been a different matter, but he has pulled it back from the brink on a few occasions now.

The situation for us right now is too delicate. Should we beat Norwich then we'll be in a good position regarding safety from relegation. Avoiding the drop is Silva's target for the season. If we can stay comfortably clear of the bottom three then he can stay.

The summer has to see a change in heirachy though. It's not working. Providing the right man is available and interested, Brands and Silva should make way for a manager who looks after the transfers as well as matchdays.

Martin Mason
65 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:54:46
Tony @63 I never got the "Duke" thing but I hope I don't become it and that you'd let me know if I did.

For me, the disruption that a change of coach would bring just now is not worth it and the cost to the club is astronomical. A couple of good results would see us in such a different position so no worry – yet.

I was so proud at what these lads said about our fans. They all support Chelsea and Arsenal but they said that the Everton support down there was the best they had seen. I can only pass this on to our wonderful fans who deserve better.

Jer Kiernan
66 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:56:35
@Steve 34

I was on live forum and after the Saints goal went in I said I think we need to lose this game to force the board into action, a valid arguement I would say and still re-itterate, short term pain for long term gain, Now what would be the big deal of 1 more defeat in 35 years of abject failure and mediocrity I ask you???

I was shot down, sworn at, called a baby by the credulous "mob" who think it is a cardinal sin to express this opinion (to note, this is the not the 1st time I have felt this way in 35 years of utter shite) and to not slap on a smile flip on the scarf and "cheer the lads on" is the Everton way yada yada... Well, I am sorry I am burned out at this stage, I have to say.

I can recall many failed managers at EFC in my time supporting them and there comes a time when deep down you feel that this next defeat will "put us out of our misery" and can have a cleansing effect, Or maybe this is just me but I remember feeling it with Walker, Harvey, Martinez, Koeman and now Silva

Now, every time I see that talentless toad Bill Kenwright sitting in our stands after lining his wallets and causing the club to have a 35-year coma, I ask the same question? How the fuck has he got away with this? Where are the banners? Where are the fan mags organizing stunts to show their disapproval of this utter crap that is served up EVERY year? Nothing... and why?

And I am sorry but it is a plain truth of life, business, sport etc that, if you FAIL miserably at your job you will only survive if your Employers set NO standards which you can be judged by, and hold nobody accountable, So I am sorry if you can stop pandering to audience for 1 second (and I note you're not the only one engaged in this practice -pathetic, they know who they are also and will remain unamed but this site is their lives by the looks) and look at the bigger picture you would see that not only is it a valid expression of frustration and makes perfect sense, it is, in my opinion, you who needs to look in the mirror

Ask yourself has that blind apathy and credulous support to the club had any part in the free ride this Toad has gotten? And indeed on the absolute shite we have endured for 35 years??? Well, I for one think it very much has.

So sit back and enjoy the legacy you are handing over to the next generation of Toffees supporters, not only seems okay to cheer a £300-million team barely beating a relegated Southampton but even worse to shoot down anybody who may express the above opinion that is not good enough?? Shocking!

You're a happy clapper and a clown and you and your ilk are being served exactly what you expect and what you deserve. So yes, I was indifferent to whether Southampton beat us the late goal is prolonging the inevitable and, if we wait until December, it could be too late.

So, as much as you would prefer to have an echo chamber here, where the same opinions are wheeled out again and again, you need to respect other people's right to have an opinion (even negative ones... yes, amazingly). If you want to argue the point, well fine...but I feel as above is YOU who need to look at yourself.

Jesus, if I wasn't being negative about this club after 35 years of shite, I would think there is a real problem!

Silva Out!!!

Simon Dalzell
67 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:27:06
Jer #66. Absolutely spot on. My sentiments entirely. Of course we badly needed the points, BUT, (it's a big one! we still have an incompetent clown in charge. Baffling team selections, diabolical substitutions (or lack of them) non-existent game plans and tactics. I veritably believe he's THE worst ever.
Jamie Crowley
68 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:27:30
I waited until all the games were finished for the weekend before posting this. I think the three points yesterday were absolutely vital for Everton. To lose that game would have placed us in a disastrous position, especially with our pending fixtures. So I'm thrilled we won. Thrilled.

But, I had a real issue with something Marco did yesterday.

Around or about the 38th minute or so, Marco looked to protect his 1-0 lead, we got very compact, and sat back. I believe the thinking was to take the 1-0 into half.

That, for me, was a cardinal sin.

We were dominating that game. There was no reason to sit back and get into the locker room up 1-0. And this is Marco's major flaw. We should have kept pushing to go up 2-0, but he clearly instructed the players to close the space in midfield and stop pressing high up the pitch. Even this American noticed it, and when questioning it on the live forum more than one person agreed and saw it, too.

If we were in the middle of a more evenly contested game, or playing a team to be concerned about, I'd understand the move. I'd not like it, but I'd understand it.

We called off the attack dogs against Southampton! When we were battering them! What was the effect of all this?

Southampton were allowed time and space to get on the ball, they got some flow, got into the game where previously they had no entry, and the rest is now history. They came out at half, tails up, and started to take the game to us.

This is a mindset issue, and a defensive one. Marco should not be looking to protect against inferior opposition, he should be looking to destroy them.

Would Frank Lampard, Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp, or Pep sit back against Southampton and look to get into the locker room 1-0 up, after completely dominating for 35 or so minutes?


Had we played a superior team, that move would have seen us getting zero points from that game. We allowed the opposition to get back in the game.

Until Marco changes this mindset and approach, we'll never be the team we are capable of being.

All that said, the bottom line is we got the three points.

But that situation just prior to halftime, was, for me, a microcosm of why Marco will never be a top manager.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be negative at all. I'm just pointing out what I saw, and what I saw will bite us in the rear-end at some point, and is the reason we find ourselves where we currently are in the table.

It's a competition. When you have an inferior team on the ropes, you know them out. You don't wait for the bell, and you don't look to get into the 15th round and await a decision.

You knock them out. We didn't, because our manager called off the attack. And that, again, is a cardinal sin, for me.

No killer instinct.

Jer Kiernan
69 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:36:48
Simon @67

Where were you on Saturday bro? I was getting told to "fuck off" yeah by grown men btw (on a keyboard of course) for expressing an opinion???

Starting to feel some fans get the club they deserve, certainly the Chairman and Manager, and are happy to bury their heads in the sand as long as they get 1 week a month where they aren't embarrassed by the team!!!

Sillva Out! Kenwright Out! And whatever it takes for that to happen, I am okay with, for the betterment of the club – and anybody who thinks it is unEvertonian or makes me less of a fan, they can suck my balls

Tony Abrahams
70 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:03:35
I agree about the cost to replace being astronomical, Martin, especially because I saw this summer more about balancing the books, buying for the future, and shifting as much deadwood as possible, but I can also understand the people like Jer who don't want to keep Silva.

I can't understand Simon as much because I don't see Silva being as bad as Smith, Walker or Koeman, and I also feel a lot of the venom getting directed at the manager mostly comes from people who never wanted him in the first place.

I couldn't understand why Everton stopped playing around that time, Jamie, thanks for pointing it out mate. My house was nice and peaceful with just me and one of my twins being home, then the other one came home and it descended into chaos, and I honestly couldn't concentrate until I had to scream at them 50 times!

My biggest gripe was we sometimes lacked quality and sometimes we lacked bravery inside the final third, but it was good to ride out even the meekest of storms because I honestly never felt we would. So I'm absolutely desperate for Mina and Holgate to stay fit now, because I can now see some green shoots in the way we are setting up defensively.

Dave Abrahams
71 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:25:36
Jamie (68), you are in no way being negative but pointing out a very valid point, I never saw the game but read the live forum, it was very obvious by remarks on there that he was protecting the slender lead to go in at half time with that lead.

He did worse in the second half, bringing Michael Keane on with minutes to go, again to sit back and protect the lead, and inviting Southampton to come and attack us, thankfully we hung on.

Hopefully other coaches at the club are pointing out to him what you have described Jamie. Thinking about what has gone on all season I very much doubt that.

Joe McMahon
72 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:33:50
Dave and Jamie, Brendan Rodgers did something similar when Leicester smacked 9 against them.

To be fair to Marco, Moyes many times tried to protect a one goal lead, often failing. FA cup semi against Liverpool springs to mind.

The problem with releasing Marco now is who would come? I still feel we would have been better off with Allardyce to the end of this season. No I didn't want him long term, but we would be a lot further up the table.

David Pearl
73 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:48:28

Remarkable we finished 8th with Allardyce... then got rid of him! Surely we'd've been better off keeping him. The fan base just wouldn't allow it.

Let's hope this new direction pays off soon. Actually, even if we go on a good run now, part of me would still want a change to take us to that other level.

Dave Abrahams
74 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:53:40
Joe (72), Joe, Allardyce got us in to a safe position and still carried on playing that woeful defensive anti football, instead of trying to prove, his boasts, that he was a great manager. He isn’t, never was, and never will be. I doubt any manager has made so much money with so little ability, mind you Moyes must run him close, in fact most probably made more than Sam, and I think it would be a draw who made the most friends with their football, 0-0.
Tony Abrahams
75 Posted 10/11/2019 at 22:07:05
I’m not sure Dave because I know Liverpudlians used to hate Allardyce, but I’m not sure Moyes, ever had that pleasure?

Moyes and Kenwright, fucking incredible job they did between them, and I used to wince when listening to Liverpudlians telling me that Moyes was doing a great job.

I used to ask them did they think he was a good manager? “Yes they’d say” would you have him at Anfield, I’d ask? Never got a yes fucking once... I said I never got a yes off even one of them!

David Pearl
76 Posted 10/11/2019 at 22:16:17
Dave & Tony,

Are you two sat together on a couch right now?

I think in todays world Silva hasn’t done to badly with all his ability either.

Bill Watson
77 Posted 11/11/2019 at 02:41:14
Jer; I think the 3 points gained was crucial, at least in moving us away from the bottom three or four.
However, when Southampton equalised I thought the short term pain of, potentially, yet another away defeat would be more than offset by making this inept manager's position untenable.
I was at the game and have been to all the other away games since Silva has been in charge. With a few exceptions most have been dreadful, mainly due to his selections, set ups and substitutions.
If anyone thinks Silva will suddenly turn this around and make us into a top four or six club they need to wake up and smell the coffee.
The sooner he goes the better and I'd argue that it's not as expensive as some have indicated. An average player costs around £15m plus salary; Silva will probably cost us that in League positions and cup exits.
Steve Brown
78 Posted 11/11/2019 at 04:42:41
Jer @ 66, yes you were the Jerk I was referring to. You made an absolute ‘clown’ of yourself on the live forum. You were called on it by other posters on the forum as well.

If you think I am a happy clapper for Silva you obviously haven’t read a single thing I have posted.

But as far as I am concerned, anyone who wants Everton to lose to prove a point has lost the right to be listened to with any seriousness.

Mike Gaynes
79 Posted 11/11/2019 at 06:03:21
Steve #78, liked what you did with the JerK there.

And yep, I'd say if there's one (and only one) inarticulate, f-bomb-dropping, sexually-insulting JerK on TW rooting for us to lose -- and then whining like a four-year-old because we won -- he has forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter.

James Stewart
80 Posted 11/11/2019 at 07:29:25
Let’s be honest, winning this game was the bare minimum. Southampton were woeful and most sides will get the 3 points there.

Silva picked a pedestrian team that made harder work of it than they should. Tosun was embarrassingly poor, and him paired with the equally slow Sigurdsson is bordering on the ridiculous.

Alan McGuffog
81 Posted 11/11/2019 at 08:09:17
Can an Evertonian ever want Everton to lose ? Hmmm
A couple of seasons ago didn't we play City at the end of the season with the rs in hot pursuit of them ? Barkley scored a cracking free kick and they replied with three goals before Rom pulled one back.
I would venture that most Evertonians were not too upset when the final whistle went, with the reds title chances scuppered.
Joe McMahon
82 Posted 11/11/2019 at 08:23:31
Steve @78, I was at the Burnley v City game in April. Burnley were just confirmed as being safe. The sun was out so lots of pre match chatter, and I can confirm that many Burnley fans wanted City to win as like many folk they didn't want Liverpool to win the title. Also many Gooners wanted Arsenal to lose against Leicester as they want Emery out.
Derek Thomas
83 Posted 11/11/2019 at 08:33:35
Jer; as funboy3 so eloquently told us - it ain't what you say, its the way that you say it...and you'll never get your points across if all people hear is the attitude

I was on the live forum that night...and as a former resident of both the boys pen and many alehouses, the forum is a mixture of the two and its not known for snowflakes.

I know it takes two to tango, but some valid points or not, you managed to wind up the usually placid mike gaynes and that takes a bit of doing. If I was barman I would've bared you both.

Stan Schofield
84 Posted 11/11/2019 at 10:25:31
This business of wanting Everton to lose. I've never done it myself, but I have sometimes 'not minded', which is different. By 'not minded', I mean it hasn't spoilt my weekend. But most times I hate losing.

Having said that, if someone else wants us to lose, that's up to them, and it's not for me to tell them otherwise. They probably have their reasons. For example, if they lived next door to a very unpleasant and arrogant red, and us losing stopped them winning the title, I could well understand where they're coming from. I live away from Liverpool now, so don't have to put up with any unpleasant reds, like I used to.

There's no point in calling someone a jerk (unless it's friendly banter and craic, which is different). There's no substance to it, it's just a daft assertion. And being an Evertonian is not something that can be judged as a 'right' or otherwise. Being an Evertonian is something that happens to you. Everton choose you, not the other way round.

It just reminds me of Peter Cook and Dudley Moore doing Derek & Clive: This bloke came up to me and called me a cunt. What did you do? I said, "Don't call me a cunt, you fucking cunt!"

The difference was, Derek & Clive were funny.

Franny Porter
85 Posted 11/11/2019 at 10:38:13
Jer should be banned for using the term "bro", never mind his opinions.
Steve Ferns
86 Posted 11/11/2019 at 11:15:08
Duncan, happy belated birthday.

Jamie Crowley, I can't believe you called Silva out for doing a Moyes thing when he has the tendency to do the opposite, a Martinezian trait of pushing on when it is safer to protect. He did not do what you describe either. He made one slight, very slight, tweak and that was to conserve energy and not press in the Southampton half. We did not sit back compact, we stopped pressing their half and rested and took the lead to Half Time. Moyes was great at protecting leads and getting into half time. It is one of the most crucial times in football, the players start to think the job is done and switch off and many sides score a sucker punch just before half time.

It was obvious to me that Southampton would come out all guns blazing at half time. I'm sorry, but we have to accept that Southampton were always going to respond for the first five minutes. They are losing, they lost the last home game 9-0, and the manager can go hard on his players and get a reaction. This is what Pellegrini was saying about the West Ham game, that Silva could go hard on the players and whip them up into a performance. He said the year before the boot was on the other foot and he did just that himself.

We needed to come out the second half and try to keep it tight for the first 10 minutes or so, and wait for opportunities to seize control and keep the ball and suck the life out of them. Weathering the storm we used to call it. Their crowd would have then lost their own second wind and start to turn on the players some more and would be comfortable again.

It was sensible tactics before half time, and I don't know what the plan was for the first 10 or 15 minutes as Saints scored too quickly and we didn't get a chance to weather that storm.

As I said, Silva has shown a tendency not to keep it tight, or batten down the hatches and take a lead into half time, but to push it and get caught with a sucker punch. My biggest problem with Silva is his recklessness and the way he pushes it too much and gets caught with sucker punches and we lose game we were comfortable in.

As for meeting with his coaches, I would expect they would all be yes men, to be honest. I'm guessing, but they've all been with him too long and are unlikely to be too honest. Boa Morte I have no idea about, but I expect he is unlikely to be rocking the boat at this early stage of the partnership. Joao Pedro Sousa was someone who would tell Silva a contrary opinion and was his sounding board. So he is a big loss.

But you're forgetting Brands. He must have meetings with Silva. They must discuss the games, they must discuss the strategy. Brands will tell Silva how it is and be critical of things. I don't see Brands as Silva's boss, but someone who will report on his performance to those who make the decisions and of course being on the board he will probably get to vote. Brands will also be aware that his performance is also being questioned as a result of our poor league position and he will want to rectify this, by helping Silva improve results.

One of the things about having a Director of Football is that the players can go to someone else other than Silva. If they are unhappy and want a transfer, then they can knock on Brands' door. If they want to play, then it's Silva's door they knock on, but they could by-pass him and go to Brands. Brands will also talk to the players and get feedback. He can tell Silva that his tactics are causing us to concede at set pieces and if he doesn't sort it out, then he will get sacked. Maybe this led to the shift to the new hybrid system that sees 7 players man to man marking on corners?

I think Silva has performed well in his recent press-conferences. He came across well in victory on MOTD in his "chat" with Lineker. He was extremely bullish with the written press judging by his remarks to them after the game, and a couple of journos put this down to him having felt the pressure that he said he wasn't feeling.

I think Brands has a massive role to play this season, after Silva. They are in partnership together. We need to 2 or 3 players in January (particularly a centre-back). All probably on loan (in case Silva is fired) and it will be important to see how Brands reacts the next time Silva hits a bump in the road.

Jer Kiernan
87 Posted 11/11/2019 at 11:35:35
Steve @78
I gathered it was me you were referring to as your play on the name was neither clever or subtle despite your best attempts, (although Mike thought it was genius really enjoyed what you did there, but there you go).

As regards me making a clown of myself on the forum that is your opinion, has no effect on me or how I feel about the club right now as I said I enjoy TW but unlike some is not big part of my life so concensus/harmony on the forum is not big deal for me.

On Saturday it looked to me like Mike Gaynes and yourself looked up from chewing the cud long enough to mooh at somebody disturbing the herd before returning to your grazing is how I saw it (lapping up Kenwright's piss soaked nettles)

as seen in showing your anger at somebody having an opinion (on a forum of all things) but not dealing with the issues raised at all??? See, the point is, I reckon in 3 weeks time you may well be thinking the same thing.

Again you don't get to decide who can have what opinions on this site, as much as you would enjoy having TW be an echo chamber to enforce and confirm your views, The odd time you may find people expressing views contrary to your own, You can chose to call them a jerk or tell them to fuck off if you like, which reflects more on you pair than on myself, but some insults slung from a keyboard by grown men have little or no effect on how I think or feel. I am old and hairy enough at this stage, thanks.

The put-down of dissent among fans (whatever form it takes) hurts the club long term and feeds into the herd mentality that Kenwright exploits. I reckon the sacred cow of having to cheer for the team, no mattter what, is not good (discuss or call me a jerk; your choice).

As for upsetting the usually "placid" Mike Gaynes, I would suggest it doesn't take to much to get him angered if a simple opinion expressed on a forum can tilt his wig so easily.

@Mike @79: "... he has forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter"??
And who bestowed that right on your good self to decide this eh?? Listen to yourself, talk about a dumb retard mentality of "Let's get him, lads".

Read my post at # 66 -- That's YOU that is.

Jer Kiernan
88 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:00:02
@Bill 77
Thanks for your post you actually talk about the issues raised in an adult manner so wanted to reply, and funnily I was also told by the "powers that be" on the forum on Sat that it was wrong to be indifferent to Everton defeat because of the poor folks like yourself who travel to all the away grounds to watch the team,

So is great to here somebody who actually DOES this ( and I have the utmost respect for those hardy souls) expressing a similar-ish opinion, I have watched through the miracle of IPTV every Everton game under Silva and I am shocked at how poor a manager this guy is, ,

He has a side that could easily be in the Top 4 scrapping out results at bottom clubs and embarrasing themselves at Goodison

In EVERY aspect of his role he is failling so if a defeat against an appalling Saints side can rush his departure is a good thing in my opinion, And speaking as somebody who would sit in Dublin in the 80s listening to Everton games(barely audible) on LW radio playing on Tues nites in Simod cup , I was also aware from an early age, that what I hope or wish happens in a game usually has little reflection on the result,

However now I feel we need to lose games to get Silva out and hopefully Mosh will show some teeth and fuck that fraud BK out on his ear also

But being an Everton supporter of long standing ( I think I still am I will have to clear it with Mike Gaynes) I did in fact cheer when Richarlison scored despite the fact is NOT a good result for the club in my opinion, Old habits die hard etc etc

I hope you and the rest of the away fans who are the lifeblood of the club get the manager you deserve before too long

Oh btw happy birthday Duncan :)

Bobby Mallon
89 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:10:09
This was my take on the game right behind the away end goal with my son. (I just hope the nice fella with walking stick and his 2 sons are ok as he left just as the game started.)

We started brightly got the goal then sat back. I couldn't understand as the crowd where on the player's backs. We should have pressed and pressed but didn't and that gave them hope for the second half.

They score but I still witnessed a lot of better play from us. I must admit that I and most around me wanted Richarlison taken off as he got into some great positions but just did not pull the trigger at the right time. Just shows how rubbish a manager we would all be, he goes and scores the winner.

So, when we are on top and score first, keep pressing and don't listen to fans for subs, cause we are rubbish at it.

Jim Wilson
90 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:23:03
Jer Kiernan – not that you need any help from me as you are more than a match against people who like to make personal attacks. Mike has done the same with Tony Marsh. No meaningful suggestions, just rubbish and insult people who have common sense and care about the club.

"Though shall not criticise the management. That is why Kenwright has got away with 20 years of nonsense, why we are where we are.

Far from you not being a good Evertonian because of your views I would suggest you are a far more genuine Evertonian than your critics because you are willing to speak out and be honest for the good of the club.

We have had all this before in the defence of Koeman. He was wrecking the team and for a long time people wanted to silence the critics. Where is he now? Do you think he is bothered and has a love for Everton like we have? Will they ever learn?

Steve Ferns
91 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:28:51
I can not envisage ever wanting Everton to lose. I was tested under Sam Allardyce. Initially I thought I would stay away. But I spent far too much money on my ticket, so I was hardly going to just give it away or leave the seat empty, and by the time the first game came round, I knew I had to be at Goodison Park.

Then I thought I would not cheer if we scored. I was jumping around like a loon with the rest of them. I hated Allardyce being Everton manager. The guy is corrupt and should be banned from football. If that's not bad enough well you all know the rest anyway.

But never once did I want us to lose. Never once did I want us not to win. If I had been able to decide the results, we'd have won every game and there'd be a petition to build Allardyce a statue outside Goodison now for winning 75 consecutive league matches and having brought the title to Goodison last season and Champions League football back to us, after winning the Europa League already.

Jim Wilson
92 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:41:19
Steve Ferns - Two scenarios mate, hypothetical only:

We lost on Saturday, sacked Silva, we ended up 6th in the league;

We won on Saturday, Silva kept his job, we finished 16th;

Which would you take (leaving the cups out of it)?

This is how some people think. But it does not affect the reality of what will be will be. They are still at the match supporting the team.

I can honestly say the only time I would want Everton to lose is, if I know we are safe and it stops Liverpool winning something? Is that wrong?

Ken Kneale
93 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:44:18

Whilst I might debate the "want to lose" with you, your summarisation of the club, those who run it and those that manage the team ehco much that many of us feel.

Kenwright has overseen the worst era of the club in history, the club has lost status – he promulgated the 'plucky underdog' tag - a disgraceful depiction given our history and has been content to oversee mediocrity at best at all levels. That he has profited handsomely now out of such ineptitude is bedevilling to many long-term supporters.

My views on Silva need little introduction – he is a lightweight coach not fit for purpose and no club with genuine ambition would have allowed the complete atrophy we now see in team matters. We limp from game to game, hoping to stay afloat, when, in fact, with the season as it is panning out, a manager able to motivate would have had us double the points total we have and see us genuinely competing in the top echelons of the league.

We are truly embarrassing ourselves as a club and I see little changing given the personnel at the respective helms of coaching, team management and boardroom.

Jim Wilson
94 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:49:50
Ken - I couldn't agree with you more!
Steve Ferns
95 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:50:25
I think we sack Silva and get Moyes or Hughes, then we go down. Moyes will come in with his defeatist talk and it'll all be about lowering expectations.

Some think that changing the manager is like changing the player on a play station game and as the new player will be brilliant and the old one was crap, we'll suddenly see massive improvements in performance.

All sacking Silva will do is put us back where we were under Allardyce. We would then sign players in January to suit the new manager and end up with a Tosun and Walcott scenario. We will then get a proper manager in the summer, paying off the interim manager. Then, the new guy will want different players to Silva and then we will have to ship out all the unwanted Silva players and buy a load more new ones. Plunging us back into another season of transition, and going backwards.

Jim, if Everton winning means the RS win the league, then the RS win the league. I bet I'd be in the minority on that one though.

Dave Abrahams
96 Posted 11/11/2019 at 12:56:12
David (76), no me and Tony live in different houses and have different points of view on many things, including Everton, but Moyes is one topic we always agree on, along with thousands of Evertonians. Funny you should ask that question as I sometimes wonder that myself when there is a short time between us sending a post. It's just a coincidence.

As for Silva, fair enough, I'd love him to be a success at Everton, really hope he does, can't really see it up to now, to be honest.

John Keating
97 Posted 11/11/2019 at 13:01:27
The points were massive in the context of where we are; however, the performance, yet again, was piss poor.

It was great to see the best two players for us were the two younger lads, one who cost us nothing and the other a nominal, in the scheme of things, fee. These two lads wouldn't have had a look-in under Silva had we not had to play them due to injury and pure crap play by some.

It just proves we don't need to spend millions on dross and at the same time pay them millions a year. I see Sidibe has been priced at £12 million if we want him at the end of the season. Well there's another load of cash we can save. Bring back young Jonjoe Kenny and have him starting next season.

It's about time we gave more youngsters a chance, especially if those youngster "know" Everton. I would sooner see a youngster give 100% than watch some of our stars posing and prancing about contributing sod all. Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin – time to go.

Jim Wilson
98 Posted 11/11/2019 at 13:11:26
John Keating - spot on mate. We have some cracking youngsters at the club and we could have saved millions slowly bringing them into the first team and slowly phasing out the older players. JohnJoe should be here, not on loan. He was excellent last season.
Tom Bowers
99 Posted 11/11/2019 at 13:15:10
What are Everton supposed to do? Keep Silva and win every 4 or 5 games? Or keep him for years just hoping he gets it right – like Moyes didn't! Sorry, all you Silva and Moyes lovers, having average managers with little pedigree and average players has to stop.

This season has been a debacle so far and made worse by the what's happened across the park. Forget the draw against 10-man Spurs and the performance against Southampton. Everton have hardly impressed in any game this season, even with Bernard and Gomes. They have beaten a lousy Watford, and West Ham whilst catching a Wolves team cold.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest Silva knows what he is doing, any more than the previous 4 managers, and he seems to be a deer in the headlights.

Yes, it was nice to see Tom Davies do well but the squad as a whole needs a run of results to get me off Silva's back and I cannot see that happening.

Bill Watson
100 Posted 11/11/2019 at 13:36:49
What a low ebb we've arrived at when some blues see retaining the curent manager and scrapping to avoid relegation as acceptable!
Steve Ferns
101 Posted 11/11/2019 at 13:49:15
Tom, after Norwich we have a difficult run of games but we got 9 points from 12 from those fixtures last season. If he repeats that, and his history tells you he does better against the better sides, due to the fact that they attack us and are open at the back, then it might get you off Silva's back eh?

For Everton to break into the top 6 in the long-term, Silva needs to be able to steamroller the sides who sit back and let us come on to them. This is his major failing as a manager of Everton.

Jamie Crowley
102 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:00:26
Steve Ferns -

I've never seen Silva play like Martinez, and I can't remember him ever being reckless and going for that "killer" goal.

Yesterday, contrary to many, I believe we were good. We had something like 24 shots? When you create that many opportunities, you can't really be that poor in my opinion.

But I remember a few weeks ago, we were near the bottom of the league in shots, and near the bottom of the league in goals. So saying Silva is some reckless, gung-ho coach isn't accurate for me. He's no Martinez, no Rodgers, hell he's no Lampard.

I sincerely believe him shutting up shop at the end of the first half changed the momentum of the game and allowed Southampton back in. It was a terrible error of judgement, one of many by Marco.

Don Alexander
103 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:25:53
I think it perverse that long-term fans cannot fully empathise with what Jer Keirnan feels and states. Whether, in the heat of the moment on the Live Forum, he states what he did is to me not the crucial point. The crucial point is that every manager and coach for the past 20 years of usually turgid football has been appointed/sanctioned by Kenwright, yet there's now a clamour, again, to sack Silva and/or whomever else, as if that'd restore us to winning trophies.

It reminds me of a night when I took the missus to that Marco Pierre White restaurant in the city. Huge picture of the man himself inside with huge prices on the menu. Bog standard food though, served by too many staff, none of whom looked interested. As if mega-bucks MPW gives a shit though.

Pissed off that I was ripped off for one night, I can fully understand the loathing Jer has for the charlatan in our boardroom for decades, now in his "enhanced role" according to Moshiri himself. Sigh.

Rob Marsh
104 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:26:50
You can only beat what's in front of you and the team did that. We were lacking confidence and results going into this fixture, so I have to say well done in gaining a victory away.

Having said what I've said above, that was a very slow and passive performance by Southampton, they didn't make it hard for us to beat them.

I have my eye on the fixtures for December and I doubt we strike any fear in our opponents. Whatever will be will be!

Norwich, we simply have to crush them at GP, we can't be having a nervy draw with them and a late winner by us. For us to have any confidence for December we have to be much (much!) better than them with a scoreline to match.

Tony Abrahams
105 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:34:29
Hopefully Moshiri is just starting to play the piper then Don.
Jer Kiernan
106 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:45:49
@Don 103
Nice analogy but if Bill was running the restaurant on top of all the other issues you most lilkely would been left with a dose of the shits and find on rushing to the toliets that there was no paper !!

As regards the Empathy is irrelevant problem is mostly herd mentality at work I mean can you believe a grown man (who shares his opinions out like confetti on here btw) could write this in response to somebody having an opinion different to theirs and then present it on public forum ??? Some standards he sets wha

" And yep, I'd say if there's one (and only one) inarticulate, f-bomb-dropping, sexually-insulting JerK on TW rooting for us to lose "

And I am inarticulate ? then HE decides that I am not a true fan ???, let them graze on BKs pissy neetles and tell us all it tastes like honey a couple of keyboard insults not gona sway my opinions, They are I believe part of the problem end of (see my posts above)

If getting Silva the bullet means defeat to Norwich I am OK with that, there I said it AGAIN, ,

If we score will i cheer most likely yes as is ingrained at this stage but should we lose I will be indifferent , I would rather be bottom 3 now while there is time to do somethign about it

Mike Gaynes
107 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:52:40
Jim #90, you're talking through your hat.

I couldn't care less whether folks here insult this club's management, and I'm not the least bit interest in "silencing" them. I happen to agree with Ken Neale's assessment of Silva as a lightweight who cannot move the club forward, and I've said so on many occasions.

But when I see people hoping we lose, or even worse blaming the manager for a horror injury, I'm going to express my opinion of those posts -- and that's what I did with Tony Marsh, not insult him personally. His post about Gomes turned my stomach.

As for Kiernan's other intelligent content, his form of communication on the Forum was spewing f-bombs and sexual insults from behind his keyboard that would have gotten him punched out at the pub. If you admire that sort of thing as "honesty", well, as they say in Georgia, bless your heart.

Jer Kiernan
108 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:04:44

"But when I see people hoping we lose" – What about it?

Ever occur to you it's none of your fuckin business, Gaynes? Probably not...

I am entitled to that opinion, whether you like or not. And by the way the insults came flying at me on the forum, I can assure you (not the other way around) anyone who's been on it and witnessed the mob on there (led by the likes of yourself) will know that, so don't be re-writing history.

Please don't bring violence into this discussion also. I had you sized up as a pathetic bully (soft as shite on the insides so clinging to the herd) so please don't perpetuate the image I have of you. I have been in many pubs and make it my business to stand up to bullies and I have never ended up on my back either for it.

As I said, read the post you sent 79. You're a fool and think nobody else has a right to opinion not of your keeping. considered an Everton supporter? Says it all for me.

Here, I will get your coat for ya.

John Keating
109 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:18:46
Rob 104
Rob I agree that confidence is a massive thing in Sport in general and footy in particular.
However look at our confidence winning games and what followed - there's not many so won't take long.

After a confidence boosting draw at Palace and a win against Watford at home, we got beat at Villa. That didn't work then.
A win against Wolves then loses against Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd, City and Burnley
That didn't work then
A win against West Ham then a loss at Brighton and a point against Spurs.
That didn't work either.

You are right we do need 3 points against Norwich, the first back to back this season hopefully, as the next games, Leicester, RS, Chelsea, United and Arsenal don't exactly fill with confidence.

If we do get confidence it will only be because of the youngsters, and hopefully the crowd give us it.
I doubt very much it will come from the charismatic Marco and his favourite non performers

Brent Stephens
110 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:39:50
Jer #108,

"But when I see people hoping we lose" – What about it? Ever occur to you it's none of your fuckin business, Gaynes?"

Jer, I'd have thought that if you wanted people to keep out of your business, you wouldn't post it on TW for all to see.

Anyway, you might well get your wish and see us lose in the next game. We're like the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist of football - we have next to nothing ourselves in terms of the goals we've got, but we're still willing to give away a few to somebody in more desperate straits than us. Silva might end up buried in Walton Park Cemetery.

Jim Wilson
111 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:44:15
Mike Gaynes - you didn't insult him personally. I suppose this is a compliment:

'but whatever the flaws of the manager, the one I can't "bare" to look at is you'

I too doubt whether Gomes would have suffered that tackle, incident, injury if we had been playing well and not been in a desperate situation. That is not to say I am deliberately saying it's Silvas fault but Gomes was a victim of circumstances caused by the team struggling. As was McCarthy's if I remember correctly.

Tony Marsh doesn't talk 'bilious crap' he talks more sense than most and even though people hate his Big Sam recommend he was spot on for that situation.

Terry White
112 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:47:30
Mike G., looks like you have made a friend for life in Mr. Kiernan.

For what it's worth, I am with you. We all agree that everybody has the right to voice their opinion - but it's the manner and use of words that offends. I find his posts disgusting and extremely offensive.

Lyndon/Michael, perhaps you should take a look at this exchange and the personal denigrating attacks on a decent long time poster on TW?

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
113 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:10:22
Hi Terry,

I'm a bit late getting to this one and just catching up with some of the rigorous exchanges on here, some of which definitely cross the line for me.

I don't agree with Jer Kiernan's contention because I think his logic is too simplistic and flawed: wishing for defeat in the presumption that Silva will be gone. The club heirarchy he despises so much showed last season that just wasn't happening, and sadly this season, it won't be down to him or his wishes either.

I keep well away from the Live Forum, and have neither the time nor the inclination to wade through so much nonsense on there — which may be part of the problem, as only by exercising some control on the more excessive posters can it be maintained as a place for reasonable exchanges by the majority.

But one rule I've always felt very strongly about is that, because we all come to this forum as Evertonians with our own thoughts and views, there are some forms of attack that cross a very important line. One is telling other Evertonians to go support someone else. We have zero tolerance for that.

The other, Mike Gaynes, is deciding that someone on here has "forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter". That is a red card offense on an Everton forum. You definitely do not get to decide that. Nobody does.

Mike Gaynes
114 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:10:35
Jim #111...

"I too doubt whether Gomes would have suffered that tackle, incident, injury if we had been playing well and not been in a desperate situation."

You know, you're right. Clearly if we hadn't been down a goal and so poorly managed, Gomes wouldn't have been dribbling that fast, Son wouldn't have fouled him and Gomes wouldn't have caught his cleats or collided with Aurier. In retrospect it's obvious that the score of the game and Silva's indisputed incompetence were key determinants in all those factors lining up to cause that terrible injury.

And you're also correct that we were similarly down 1-0 when Macca was injured, and the same is true with Bolasie's knee injury, so clearly that particular score is a serious danger to our club's health. I think you've uncovered a major trend and further scientific study is urgently needed.

Andrew James
115 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:11:10

I would never will us to lose or be annoyed we'd won. But I get your frustration as there have been many times where I've been ambivalent about a victory. Like when we beat City a week after totally capitulating against Wigan in the FA Cup QF at home. Stable doors closed after horses have bolted sort of wins. I'm also not a fan of wins when they paper over the cracks like under Martinez and Koeman and definitely Allardyce. It's difficult to get excited when you've beaten an abject opponent at home 1-0 knowing that if you continue to play like that in other matches, you won't finish higher than mid-table.

I think it is fair to say we are both looking at the bigger picture just I cannot quite bear to have us lose for something to be triggered. Perhaps you want radical change and I have just succumbed to apathy.

The live forum isn't the place to make statements like yours that needed wider exploration. It's very nature is that it's perfect for pun humour, monosyllabic commentary, venting or Trolling so once you said what you did, the Trolls were waiting with their claws out. I'm not saying that is right, by the way, it's just a sad reality. It's never pleasant to see them going for a fellow Blue.

Mike Gaynes
116 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:19:35
Michael #113, I expressed an opinion I've never expressed before after encountering someone actively, repeatedly and obscenely rooting for our team to lose (and posting "BOLLOCKS" when we won) and insulting those who felt otherwise by inviting them to perform a particular sexual act.

I believe that, by definition, is not a supporter.

You are certainly entitled to view that as a red card offense.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
117 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:34:30
Mike, there are a lot of Evertonians that say really stupid things – me included, no doubt.

But they – we – are all still Evertonians.

You can go all semantic on the "supporter" part of it if you want, but it's that fundamental high-horse judgement made by your good self that, by his ridiculous comments, Jer has "forfeited the right to be considered an Everton supporter". Sorry, you could have said anything else, but not that.

You do not get to question or judge the credentials of other Evertonians. At least not on this website.

Steve Ferns
118 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:36:14
Michael, could it be that Mr Gaynes is using supporter in the American or literal sense, rather than fan?
Brian Williams
119 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:39:38
Mike Gaynes a bully? Well I've heard the fucking lot now. Lol!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
120 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:42:10
Yea, I'm sure he is, Steve. And maybe there is a transatlantic linguistic element in play in terms of usage here that excuses him.

But it raises a point I feel very strongly about in terms of mutual respect for who we are as posters. Obviously it's a bit late for that in this case!!!

Rob Halligan
121 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:43:09
I've no wish to get involved in this argument, but can I just say one thing. Anyone who wishes for us to lose, home of away, do they have any consideration for the fans who travel to these games, particularly the away fans? That game at Southampton last Saturday cost me over £150. Ok, it's my choice to go, and it was my choice to fly down to Southampton, but I went with the sole intention of wanting us to win, not to lose in the hope that Silva may get sacked.
Andrew Keatley
122 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:46:29
Can everyone please put their red cards back in their pockets? I think a firm word is more than enough.

It's only passion for the club bubbling over in different ways. Bad language doesn't help proceedings. But I feel fairly confident that Mike Gaynes and Jer Kiernan are both proper fans who want the best for this club.

Brian Williams
123 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:47:13
Michael, I think there's a helluva lot worse that fails BIGTIME in the mutual respect stakes than what Mr Gaynes is being pulled for.

I understand you have your rules. I once, myself, fell foul when suggesting someone "should go and watch the other lot." (Lesson learned).

But there are things "said" in threads and the online forum which make the "forfeiting the right to be an Evertonian" comment seem like a bloody compliment to be honest.

The main reason why I avoid the live forum like the plague.

ps: If Mike Gaynes is to be charged I'd like to hire the services of Mr Ferns on his behalf. ;-)

Steve Ferns
124 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:47:52
Rob Halligan, have you submitted your "View from my seat (on board my Private Jet)" Article yet?
Brian Williams
125 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:51:08
Free the Seppo one!!!
Brent Stephens
126 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:52:36
Steve, given our precarious league position, Rob might be expecting a parachute payment.
Steve Ferns
127 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:54:34
Brian, I had never heard anyone use that term until Ash. I didn't realise it came from rhyming slang of Septic Tank / Yank. That's a cockney thing for me. Does anyone use the term "septic" or indeed "seppo" in or around Liverpool?

Good one Brent

Steve Ferns
128 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:54:54
Brian Williams
129 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:56:52
Steve #127.

No mate. I think Ash was adding his own take on it to be honest. I've certainly heard "septic tank" or "ham shank" but never "Seppo."

I merely used that as it's quite relevant at the moment!

Rob Halligan
130 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:57:35
Steve, there's one reason why I never do a "From my Seat" is because simply I can never remember what happens in a game. I can walk out of any football stadium and forget half the things that happened in the game. One thing I will say though is that I will deffo be flying down to Bournemouth and Southampton (should they stay up) next season. So much better than spending ten hours on the coach.
Bobby Mallon
131 Posted 11/11/2019 at 16:59:26
Bill Watson @100 And all those who want the manager out WHO would you have WHO is available and WHO would want to come that’s a top top manager?
Answers on a stamp please?
Steve Ferns
132 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:01:46
Rob, there was a petition on ToffeeWeb to pay for your flight, at one point. Your "lucky flight" bringing us a rare away win! If you deliver an away win next time you fly, you might find yourself being flown to games like Man Utd and Man City away as well!
Mike Gaynes
133 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:10:02
Heck, Rob, I'll go one step farther than that and suggest that if your aerial arrivals are key to our winning away, we need to all chip in to fly you across Stanley Park to Mordor by helicopter on 4 December!
Michael Kenrick
134 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:14:05

There's a lot, I'm sure. But to me, the one thing that puts us together here is that we are Everton supporters.

Emphasis added because the two go together — you can't split it off and say "Oh, the nasty things you're saying are not supportive of Everton, therefore you forfeit the right to be considered an Everton supporter".

Sounds very tame... but sorry, I'm not having that. It's what it means in the context of this forum that concerns me and makes it completely unacceptable.

Mike Gaynes
135 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:18:42
Andrew #122, well said, and I bow to your good sense.

Brian #127, I actually looked up "seppo" when Ash used it, and it really is a mild Aussie insult for a Yank. I'll wear the title with pride -- I very much enjoy Ash's writing even when he goes off the diving board a bit. Hope he comes back.

Brent #126, that line makes you my POTM (Poster Of The Month) for November, and I'm closing the nominations.

Steve F., thanks for your advocacy, but could you give me a break on the bill? Not sure I can afford you.

Finally, Michael #117, I respect and admire the extraordinary commitment that you and Lyndon have made to this site. I hope I sufficiently expressed my appreciation in the "25 Years" thread, and I meant every word. It's safe to say that you and I have frequently, and often vehemently, disagreed on multiple issues over the years, but we've reached the point where we can fully respect and listen to each other without agreeing, and I think this is such a case. Ultimately, this is your site, and you have every right to establish the rules you consider appropriate.

Terry White
136 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:28:37
"Tame" indeed, Michael (#134). Compared to the disgusting and degrading language used by Mr Kiernan in his posts directed at Mr Gaynes and, with others, at our Chairman, that you do not seem to find objectionable and worthy of criticism, once again, tame.
John Keating
137 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:39:37
Bobby 131,

I have personally come to the end of the road with Silva. Everyone wanted him to succeed because that meant we were on the up. So far, that has been far from the case.

Thing is, Bobby, you cannot leave a losing manager in place just because there is nobody available right now. Take it to the extreme: Would you leave Silva in place if, God forbid, we were anchored in the bottom 3 come New Year?

Tony Hill
138 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:43:36
Rob #130, thank God I'm not the only one. Not only do I forget what's happened, I often completely fail to identify the correct players involved in critical moves/goals and get the sequence of events hopelessly wrong.

Given some of the stuff we've been serving up it probably doesn't matter very much.

Jer Kiernan
139 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:52:13
Rob Halligan @121,

You are right and I have talked with another supporter (Bill @77) who has been to all the away games who felt similar to myself on this. The away supporters are the lifeblood of any club and, if we lose them, we are fucked. However, the Club does not and should not have a divine right to be supported – it should be earning that loyalty. In my opinion. suffering a defeat to a woeful Saints side would get us to where we need to be quicker (a new manager and hopefully an overhaul of board).

Terry White,

Can you give some examples of what in my post you find "disgusting"? I mean what's happening in Syria is disgusting – this is a few posts on a forum, please advise... I am bewildered?

Some harsh language was carried over from the Forum on Saturday, however, I feel you are pipping in on behalf of your mate which is fine but the fact that he is on the site for years doesn't make him right.

I am going to leave it at this as we can all be stuck here for ever but last thing I will say on this matter, if Silva is still here in May and we are still a laughing stock while Liverpool parade their 2nd Major honour in 2 years, will we be arsed that I wanted us to lose at Southampton? Think how far behind Liverpool we are, and ask why?

@Micheal @134

Full respect for the job you and the team do on TW and I thank you for your fairness in this despite Terry asking you to make a call and then telling you what call to make!!!

I won't login on the forum on Saturday so you won't need to babysit. :) It will remain an echo chamber.

Bill Watson
140 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:04:33
Bobby # 131

Few managers take a job because they genuinely 'love' a club. Most do it for the £s. If we accept your view that we must stick with Silva because few others are available, then we'd still be lumbered with Mike Walker!

Rob; I did consider flying down but mindful of my carbon footprint I plumped for 10 hours on the Everton coaches!

Darren Hind
141 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:04:38
Septic tank?

Rhyming slang used to describe American forces based over here.

I suspect it dates back to the war when they were paid far more than our boys and were able to attract all the creamy whirls (see what I did there?)

They were not very popular when off-duty – "overpaid, oversexed and over here".

With the Aussie fondness for abbreviation, it wouldn't be a great leap to work out how they came up with the term "Seppos".

Rob Halligan
142 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:09:09
Bill, I normally go on the Everton coaches when I travel by coach. Usually try and get on coach 2. You'll have to make yourself known to me.
Bill Watson
143 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:16:09
Rob; I'm now on coach 1 but only because of the high cost of the numerous raffle tickets touted on 2 lol.
Jay Harris
144 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:23:10
Arsenal, currently 5th and hardly ever out of the top 6, are considering terminating Unai Emery in January.

See the difference in ambition and status.

We spend £500M and can't even buy a place in the top six.

Terry White
145 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:05:19
Mr Kiernan (#139), I do not partake in the Match Day Forum being in the fortunate position of having paid some money to enable me to actually watch the games on my TV. Based upon what you describe, it seems as if it is definitely one forum to skip.

What examples in your posts do I find "disgusting"? I am quite in agreement with you that what is happening in Syria, and other parts of the world, is "disgusting". However, I retain my right to be disgusted by your language and choice of words in expressing opinions that you are also quite entitled to have. It's the language to which I object. To be specific, among others, and to quote from Elizabeth Barrett Browning (no relation to our own "BB" as far as I know), "Let Me Count the Ways". Much as it pains me to repeat some of the language used by you, as I was not brought up to talk this way, at home, at school, at work.

"Now, every time I see that talentless toad Bill Kenwright sitting in our stands after lining his wallets and causing the club to have a 35-year coma, I ask the same question? How the fuck has he got away with this?"

"You're a happy clapper and a clown."

" and anybody who thinks it is unEvertonian or makes me less of a fan, they can suck my balls."

"On Saturday it looked to me like Mike Gaynes and yourself looked up from chewing the cud long enough to mooh at somebody disturbing the herd before returning to your grazing is how I saw it (lapping up Kenwright's piss-soaked nettles)".

"However, now I feel we need to lose games to get Silva out and hopefully Moshiri will show some teeth and fuck that fraud Bill Kenwright out on his ear also".

"@Don 103
Nice analogy but if Bill was running the restaurant on top of all the other issues you most lilkely (sic) would been left with a dose of the shits and find on rushing to the toliets (sic) that there was no paper !!"

"And I am inarticulate? Then HE decides that I am not a true fan??? Let them graze on BKs pissy neetles (sic) and tell us all it tastes like honey. A couple of keyboard insults not gona sway my opinions."

For the record, I am 70+ years old and do not like foul language of any kind at any time. I do not mix in circles where it is used and find it offensive. I have never met Mike Gaynes but it is true that we share a common acquaintance, someone who posts on this site and, I would consider, is also one of the most rational and reasonable posters, and who does not consider it necessary to embellish his posts with crudities they do not add anything.

Michael Kenrick is quite capable of forming his own opinions regarding what is and is not reasonable to post on this site. Consider my request for him to consider monitoring your posts to be a form of appeal to the referee to give our team a decision.

Anyway, I agree with you it is time to drop this subject. Perhaps the long-forgotten "5 post rule" should be reinstated if it were ever officially dropped? it certainly is not implemented now.

Cheers, Good Bye and COYB.

Bill Gienapp
146 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:25:08
I'm of a similar mindset as Stan (84). Even in the darkest days of the Allardyce era, I never wanted us to lose. I just didn't take the losses as hard.
Mark Guglielmo
147 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:32:16
Jay @144, I'm always curious when people use this to demonstrate what's wrong with Silva, or Brands, or whatever.

We spend £500M and can't even buy a place in the top six.

Some figures may be slightly off:
Richarlison - £45M
Bernard - free
Iwobi - £23M
Kean - £27M
Gomes - £23M
Gbamin - £23M (hasn't played)
Mina - £26M
Digne - £18M
Delph - £9M
Sidibe - £3M (loan fee)

I get £195M or thereabouts, so where does this extra £300m come from? That's a bit more than a rounding error.

Jer Kiernan
148 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:45:09
@Terry 145
Having read back your post of my posts a few things are apparent

1. I am spending far too much time on this site (I am off work sick right now so should be putting my energies into something more productive)

2. I do use a lot of choice language where it probably is not necessary or doesn't even help make my point at times.

3. I most definitely didn't or don't consider that there may be TWebbers reading who are offended by such language as I tend to write my posts to the people concerned who in this case had no problem using the same levels of expression on the Live Forum on Saturday.

If I was in company or in a job interview, I would not be using such bad language or would curb it as much as possible, so I can try.

"Much as it pains me to repeat some of the language used by you, as I was not brought up to talk this way, at home, at school, at work."

I am afraid to say, from where I come, it is the way we talk at home, school, work etc. I am probably worse than most but there is no point me trying to deny it. I have done okay for myself but definitely see foul or bad language as a way of expressing an opinion, although "suck my balls" is probably beneath even me... I don't find language offensive myself as long as is tied to some logic, but each to their own.

Saying that, if you find that part of what I post offensive, then fair enough. I was at times trying to offend but not like that. I will try to consider other TWebbers in future who – although not taking part in the disagreements – may well be reading and not like it; the site is for everybody after all, And before ever posting, I was myself an avid reader.

Point taken, I won't be posting much after today but, if I do, I will try to consider the public nature of the forum

And kudos for acknowledging that your appeal to the ref/mods was slightly loaded. :)


David Pearl
149 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:56:14
Dave, 96

Yeah it was just a little joke.

I think Moyes would do better than Silva right now. How much better and would it allow us to take that illusive step that Leicester seem to be making right now is the major question.

Honestly l don't think it would be a good appointment and would send the wrong message.

Regardless anyway, l want any manager that comes in, including Allardyce, or Silva, to do well for us. That includes both getting points and attractive football. And with the wages we pay we shouldn't sell ourselves short in any way. Seems to me that Silva is being left to learn on the job, like an intern (only better paid).

Imagine the team we could of had by keeping our better players over the last 3 years... then allowing some youngsters to come through like Davies, Beni, Holgate etc. Then all we would need is to add some quality additions and not the 5, 6, 7 we get each summer. I don't want any more players in January. Give the kids a chance. Chelsea have really benefited from their ban. Good for them. Not that l like Chelsea but what Lampard has done has been great so far.

Darren Hind
150 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:58:39

This is not the Catholic church. As far as I know, you can't be excommunicated from Evertonia.

Just one request: be mindful that kids will be reading your posts. You haven't used any swear words my grand kids would not have heard... but the sexual invitations? Give them a wide berth, lad. No need.

Jer Kiernan
151 Posted 11/11/2019 at 20:09:01
Darren @150,

Point taken, lad. I never would have considered young uns that maybe reading either!!

I don't want to be accused of corrupting the youth. (Again!!) Keep them well clear of the Forum if I was you.

Have never had a problem getting booted out of Churches but there was definitely a cult-ish vibe to some of what I heard on the forum on Saturday. I dunno... felt like I was the only one who thought the kool-aid had a funny taste??

Ah well, Nevermind, glug, glug, glug. :b

Paul Tran
152 Posted 11/11/2019 at 20:10:20
I spend plenty of time on here, LinkedIn & Twitter and have lots of good conversations with really good people and tend to ignore the ones who aren't.

I have two rules:

1. I won't say anything I wouldn't say to someone's face.

2. I won't say anything that I think might make people think worse of me as a person.

I like to think that still means I have things to say, and I can argue/debate with people on here without losing any cordiality/friendship.

Why can't everyone do the same?

Tony Abrahams
153 Posted 11/11/2019 at 20:37:06
Because life's just not like that, Paul!

I agree with your rules though Paul, because like most of your posts, mate, they are well thought out and sensible!

I'm surely going to get a 10/1 winner after this post please, Paul?

David Pearl
154 Posted 11/11/2019 at 20:54:02
Tony, Rebecca Menzies has a horse called halcyon days. Had a minor issue last race but should come back stronger amd is expected to win very soon. Used to have a horse with her.
Darren Hind
155 Posted 11/11/2019 at 20:54:50
10/1 from PT???

Never in a million years, Tony.

"A little... often" My grandad used to say. I'm sure PT must have been listening in.

Paul Tran
156 Posted 11/11/2019 at 20:59:18
You're right, Tony, but the only thing stopping people is themselves.

We're all bullish about Getaway Trump on Sunday, but he won't be anywhere near 10/1. I'll be looking for some value for this weekend's Cheltenham meeting, but at the moment I couldn't tip a beer mat.

Paul Tran
157 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:19:17
Quite right, Darren, it's not about the big prices, it's about your profit over the year. I do remember a nice 9/1 tip I gave about a certain former Everton striker .
Mike Gaynes
158 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:20:44
Paul, if you're gonna be at the race, post some video!
Tony Abrahams
159 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:22:06
I know you've gone to live with the sweaties Paul, but you don't have to start sounding like Jimmy Crankie mate!

Words of wisdom, Darren, and thanks for the tip David, Getaway Trump it is Paul, and whoever picked that name was definitely onto a winner.

Tony Abrahams
160 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:25:11
Paul, you are sounding more like a Scotsmen everyday.

Paul Tran
161 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:29:11
Can't make it to Cheltenham, Mike, ironically I'm working in Inverness on Monday. If he wins there'll be multiple retweets!

And how am I sounding like Jimmy Krankie, Tony? Always better to take money off the enemy.

Thanks Dave, Halcyon Days is going into my horse tracker!

Tony Abrahams
162 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:39:18
Sorry Paul, but Couldn't tip a beer mat, just brought back childhood memories of that ugly little bastard saying I could crush a grape, but I'm definitely praying that Trump, helps you take money off the enemy.
Darren Hind
163 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:46:18
So you did Paul @ 157. So ya did.

I think I my reply was along the lines of "I wouldnt bet on it with somebody else's money"

Paul Tran
164 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:59:23
Darren, you also said you'd give me 10/1. I didnt want your money. And you had the good grace to congratulate me when I collected.

Thanks for the clarification, Tony. I was concerned for a minute there. And I'm only backing Trump if the price is right.

Martin Mason
165 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:08:13
Just remember, for a long time Howard Kendall was the worst manager we'd ever had doing exactly what we accuse Silva of now.
Paul Tran
166 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:11:10
Indeed, Martin. I can only imagine what this site and Twitter would have been like about our manager in the winter of 1983.
David Pearl
167 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:25:29
Ha, l remember wanting Kendall out myself for dropping Andy King.

Maybe its our turn to have 4 or 5 top class youngsters come through. We are getting some glowing reports on a few of them.

David Midgley
168 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:10:22
Gentlemen, gentlemen, calm down. It's getting very hot in the kitchen lately. There are some very sharp knives there and you could hurt yourselves.

#93 Jim, 3rd scenario: We lost. Silva sacked. We go down.

#148 Mr Kiernan, point No 1. I am sorry to read about you being unwell. This is written with your best interests at heart but could you get the doctor to check your meds?

I have read lots of clever, smart informative analysis about players, teams and tactics... a lot of it leaves me cold and a lot I don't understand. The only diamonds I know about are the ones my missus has and the only deep-lying centre forward was The Doog.

Far too much personal abuse. Remember when you were growing up and the sap was rising? You were told bit of self-control is needed. If Nil Satis is good enough for the club, it should be for the posters.

I first went to Goodison Park in 1954 as a schoolboy when, at an early age, I got my 'Blue Blood' injection. I've seen some good players and some poor ones...

Some musings: When the Premier League was first mooted, the Managing Director of London TV met with the big five of the First Division: Man Utd, Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur, Everton and Arsenal, to pave the way for its formation. Everton were perceived then as one of them.

The board and management has since proved we are not. They were not ready for the commercial and financial side of the Premier League and we have been left behind. Sad but true. We have been a very badly run club that has always reminded me of 'Grace Brothers' from "Are you being served?" ... The top doesn't seem to know what is happening on the shop floor.

Complete lack of communication. Nobody at Everton seems capable it. Apparently, Unsworth found out that Gordon on Saturday was a sub via The Echo.

Leicester and Liverpool doing well. Both managers speak good English and can communicate what they want to the players. I've listened intently to Marco's last two or three interviews. There are words and ideas in there but I just couldn't get them. It was like Scrabble for the ears and I still had a lot of letters left over. How does he make his point in the heat and intensity of a match?

I don't think Marco is the man for Everton. I don't think he has the wherewithal or the gravitas. When Everton are mathematically safe I think he will be gone. I hope then youth will be tried.

So lads keep up the fire, passion and hope but lose the venom.

By the by... Sur in English, a Spanish newspaper, has good little article by Rob Palmer (of Sky Sports) about Koeman and Roberto.

David Pearl
169 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:33:06
David @168,

Give Silva a break, he's only on £3M a year poor kid. He's not expected to know what he's doing as he's learning on the job.

Mike Gaynes
170 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:36:34
Tony #159, I almost never "get" the English cultural references on TW (sometimes I ask about them, sometimes not), but as I was reading your post I actually knew who Jimmy Krankie was... because I'm reading Bill Bryson's The Road to Little Dribbling and I had just hit the page where he referenced taking his children to see the Krankies at Bournemouth years ago. Gotta tell ya, mate, it gave me a tremendous sense of accomplishment to understand your joke.

BTW, I recommend the Bryson book to TWers if for no other reason than the description of accompanying his son-in-law, TW denizen Chris Gould, and his two little boys to a game at Goodison in 2017. It's not only entertaining, but it explains why none of us should ever again debate Chris on any topic, but simply accept his opinion and thank him for it. Read it and you'll understand.

David #168, you seem to have a bit of Bryson in you!

David Pearl
171 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:45:24

Excellent, I recollect reading something about his visit to Goodison but can't remember where and when.

David Midgley
172 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:54:42
Mike #170.

Too much innuendo as well.

David #154.

"I used to have a horse with her"?

Mike Gaynes
173 Posted 12/11/2019 at 00:28:31
David 154, I agree, you’re gonna have to explain that horse thing.

As to the Bryson passage, I will post it here as an article if I can get Mr. Gould’s permission to do so.

Don Alexander
174 Posted 12/11/2019 at 01:15:02
Jer Keirnan, Steve Ferns' input has recently become a subject for discussion by TWer's – through no fault of his own, I might add. He was mostly resolutely reassured to continue in what he does. You are now under scrutiny but, as I think of Steve, I hope you continue to add to the TW mix.

That said, we all usually feel the need to now criticise the club – with bloody good reason for the past 35 years, I might add. I draw the line on TW at those making derogatory comments against named fellow Everton fans/supporters. You didn't do that as far as I can see, so, as said, I encourage you to continue as you are. All the best.

David Pearl
175 Posted 12/11/2019 at 01:15:26
Mike, David

Rebecca Menzies trains racehorses. I bought a horse through her, a 2-year-old. But she developed a habit of reading the racing post while running. (the horse, not Rebecca). If she didn't do that she might've been a lot better. In training, she went like a rocket. As it was, though, l may as well just set fire to £1,250 a month. Don't know what l was thinking!

Mike Gaynes
176 Posted 12/11/2019 at 04:54:15
David, my condolences, but that's pretty funny. Somebody once offered my dad a share of a racehorse. He said he would never invest in something that ate more than he did and had skinnier legs. Only solid financial decision he ever made.
Martin Nicholls
178 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:55:38
Rob H#130 and Tony Hill#138 – that makes three of us! Can't remember (!!) when this short term amnesia began but suspect the best part of 25 years ago!

Rob – do you sit in Upper Gwladys and occasionally sport a coat emblazoned with your initials?

Martin Nicholls
179 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:59:51
Mike Gaynes#170 - you shouldn't need Bill Bryson to inform you as to who Jimmy Krankie is. He currently works as First Minister of Scotland and is forever in the news!
Steve Brown
180 Posted 12/11/2019 at 10:10:47
Jer @ 87, you shouldn't spend so long posting a response to people who have no intention of reading it. Save your effort.
Jer Kiernan
181 Posted 12/11/2019 at 10:24:06
@David 168,

"I am sorry to read about you being unwell. This is written with your best interests at heart but could you get the doctor to check your meds?"

Thanks for the goodwill, I am gona take it as genuine, David. I spoke to my Quack regards health and meds and he told me to stop following this fucking club. :)

Unfortunately, that is a disease that is incurable after suffering it badly since early '80s and it has got progressively worse to a point were trying to fix it now would be futile. :) But I will defo be giving this site a wider berth

@Don 174

Thanks also for the goodwill, I have noted Steve's posts willl most likely come under more scrutiny with his vocal support for Silva and I have mentioned to him myself that I admire his energy and passion in fighting his corner (although I disagree on his choice of manager). He also puts a lot of work into his posts, which is a very valuble commodity for the site, and I hope he will keep contributing.

I myself don't have nearly as much energy or passion; as I mentioned before, I am feeling burned out with this club at this stage and am probably venting the last embers. I am becoming indifferent as reflected in the above debate.

Unless there is a complete change of attitude and personnel at the club and by the fans, I cannot see a time when Everton supporters will ever get the privilege of being able to rub Liverpool or Manc supporters' noses in it.

Remeber that? Well I do, but only just. :)

Jer Kiernan
182 Posted 12/11/2019 at 10:29:41
@ Steve 180

Ha, who you kiddin? You've been hanging on my every word – tell the truth! :)

Ian Jones
183 Posted 12/11/2019 at 10:32:46
Hi Mark @ 147

Re yours and Jay's comments re expenditure, Jay didn't mention a specific period of time for the £500 million transfer spend...

If you take into account the money we have spent since Moyes left, when we started paying a fair amount for players, it all adds up... all figures rounded.

13-14: £30M
14-15: £36M
15-16: £44M
16-17: £77M
17-18: £182M
18-19: £90M
19-20: £108M

Total (approx) £567 million.

Of course, some of the amounts above include loan fees and players who have since left. Was it money well spent?

Info taken off Transfermarkt


Stan Schofield
184 Posted 12/11/2019 at 13:02:53
Jer @181:

With respect, I don't think you should be giving this site a wide berth just because you've had some robust arguments with some other posters. To be honest, if that were a reason for not posting, the site would probably be far less interesting. Obviously it's up to you, but it seems a shame for any of us on here to be put off just because of heated debate.

Regarding personal remarks, I take the view that anyone can call me anything they want, because I'll take compliments and insults equally. ("Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me" – as I was told as a kid.) However, if someone does make personal remarks, and fail to just stick to substance, I just choose not to debate with them, because there's no point, it just becomes a slanging match in the style of Derek & Clive @84.

Steve Brown
185 Posted 12/11/2019 at 13:40:25
Jer @ 182, since you said you were old, hairy and were inviting people to suck your balls, I've been too scared to read anything else. :)

My shoulders are broad so not too bothered what you called me. But back the team – results make the fans happy and that is bigger than any manager.

Mark Guglielmo
186 Posted 12/11/2019 at 13:59:54
Ian @183 yep, I knew that which is why I asked.

If the point being made is that overall spending during the Moshiri era has been poor, well that appears to be correct.

If the point is that Silva “can't get a £500M team to compete,” well, that's not so fair. Neither he (nor Brands) is on the hook for the horrible personnel decisions/purchases before August 2018. Brands is trying to build a certain “type” of team, that much is clear.

Would any of the holdovers (save perhaps Pickford) be acquired now? Better yet, do any of them factor into the Club's plans beyond this season? My guess is very, very few. There aren't any cars built with parts made over a 5-year stretch, put a simpler way.

The injuries have only exacerbated the “Frankenstein monster” roster we have, and Silva has to pick from. We should count ourselves very, very lucky that fellas like Holgate & Davies have truly risen to the challenge.

Doesn't this look like a side that could challenge for a spot in Europe?

Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gbamin Iwobi Gomes
Richarlson Kean Bernard

Davies, Calvert-Lein, maybe Sigurdsson as key subs off the bench.

It does to me!

Jer Kiernan
188 Posted 12/11/2019 at 14:05:36
@184 Stan,

You're right but it is not the mud-slinging, that rolls right off me back, it is just the energy needed just to have the right to have the opinion discussed in the first place.

I will stay a patron and avid reader though of TW; I certainly wont be going to the official site for my EFC news. (I am barred off posting on their forum anyways but thats another story!!)

@Steve 185

See, I knew you read me posts. :),

"But back the team – results make the fans happy and that is bigger than any manager"

I will have to agree to disagree with you on some of this. I want success, not results. You are spot on though regards the fans. But, if we had lost to The Saints on Saturday, all discussion (in the ground, on forums, on radio etc etc) would have been about our next manager and hopefully a board reshuffle.

I feel Kenwright's influence even more now in the club with his new "stepped back" role... Dangerous shit that, near impossible to oust him now, as looks like you're picking on an innocent old man... crafty prick!

Also, just on an aside, I just read this in an article from Pat Nevin (usually a level headed pundit):

“I was at the Tottenham game last Sunday, and that was the quietest I've ever, ever heard Goodison Park in my entire life,” said Pat, who made over 100 appearances for the Toffees in the late 1980s and 90s.

“The fans looked as if they've chucked it – they couldn't even bring themselves to boo, it was that bad. It was as if they were just waiting for the hangman to turn up."

It's not cheering for Spurs, I grant you, but I am not the only one feeling this shit and, come May, when Liverpool are parading the Premier League trophy, it is gonna come home to roost.

The fans should always come first – they deserve so much better and need to get angry and belligerent, I feel.

Martin Mason
189 Posted 12/11/2019 at 17:49:53
We have enough problems with the club that we support without wasting our time creating problems amongst ourselves. We're a font of knowledge so just accept that in enjoying this we have to accept that people may disagree with us and, while we can usually settle facts, we can never do that with opinion. We have to accept that opinion isn't fact although can approach it if the argument is well substantiated.
Brian Williams
190 Posted 12/11/2019 at 18:02:06
Crafty prick? Ffs.
David Midgley
191 Posted 13/11/2019 at 09:53:18
Jer Kiernan, I'm sure that every Evertonian wishes you well.

Everton is like strong drink, too much is bad for your health. Maybe cut back your consumption. The old WW2 poster comes to mind:

"Like Dad, keep Mum"

Eddie Dunn
192 Posted 13/11/2019 at 11:21:29
David 168, what a load of common sense. I know the players are multi-ethnic internationals but apart from the Portuguese speakers I wonder just how well Marco can get his ideas across in English, because his interviews make Martinez seem like Stephen Fry.
Mike Corcoran
193 Posted 13/11/2019 at 13:37:18
Just get EB Haarland. Sorted
Dave Abrahams
195 Posted 13/11/2019 at 15:28:28
Brian (190), you are right, for once Brian,no need for crafty!!

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