Blues finally win away from home

By Michael Kenrick 09/11/2019 284comments  |  Jump to last

Fabian Delph is dealing with another soft-tissue complaint and does not feature against the Saints

Everton make the long trek down to the south coast for the third time this season as they take on fellow strugglers Southampton.

Marco Silva's midfield challenge, deepened by the tragic loss of Andre Gomes to a fracture-dislocation of his ankle last weekend, has not risked Fabian Delph, who joins Jean-Phillipe Gbamin on the sidelines. Morgan Schneiderlin and Gylfi Sigurdsson are recalled, with Cenk Tosun up front, leading the line.

Anthony Gordon is on the bench. Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Alex Iwobi join the 18-year-old, with Seamus Coleman, Leighton Baines, Michael Keane and goalkeeper Jonas Lössl rounding out the list of substitutes.

Richarlison collapsed under minimal pressure, a light hand on his shoulder, Paul Teirney surprisingly giving Everton an early free-kick, then penalizing Richarlison as the ball came in. The same situation in reverse at the other end, Richarliso fouling and Everton having to defend an early set-piece but turned into a nice counter, although Walcott and then Sigurdsson decided to faff around rather than shoot at goal. But from Sigurdsson's corner, Tom Davies ran around the far post and headed home very confidently, a brilliant finish to a fine ball on from Holgate at the near post.

Southampton were stunned but tried to restructure and push the Blues back, Redmond being snuffed out well by Mina and Holgate. Digne won a second corner on 10 mins, this time from the left, which Davies tried to do something with but Southampton broke again, and there was some lively open running.

Sigurdssson tried to release Tosun but his through ball was intercepted. However, Tosun got a chance to chase a ball in on the home side's goal only to see a defender across quicker to block his weak half-shot on the stretch.

Tosun got through again, after flicking the ball beautifully to Walcott who set up a looping ball for him to finish with a powerful header into the roof of the net... NO! He made a total mess of it and missed completely!

Walcott was fouled, by Vestergaard, setting up another opportunity for Sigurdsson, curled in superbly but just a little ahead of the Blue line and no end product.

Everton were looking pretty comfortable despite a poor wayward kick into touch from Pickford. Richarlison then tried to be too clever and let the ball roll out of play but the Blues were quick to regain possession. But passing was wayward in the final third, as if they were perhaps a little too comfortable.

Walcott did very well to skip past Stevens but went too close to the byline and could only shoot at McCarthy from a narrow angle. Better from Richarlison on the other side, running strong and winning a corner, Davies trying a clever cross-shot to the top corner that McCarthy tipped behind for another corner, Digne's third, lopping too high defended away. Walcott then wasted another attack with an overhit deep cross of his own.

A really nice move through the middle saw Sigurdsson feed Digne who tried to find the far top corner but was well off target. Everton were in total control but the final ball always letting down some really good build-up work. Sloppy passing from Davies let Southampton counter but Holgate was all over the striker.

Tosun went over easily and again won the free-kick, Digne delivering this better but, in the subsequent phases, no-one could muster a clean shot despite the panic created in the Saints defence. The stats showed 11 attempts on goal from Everton at this point: zero from the Saints, whose fans were not happy, to say the least. Repeated forward balls from their stars overhit and going behind for goal-kicks.

A mistake by Holgate and Cedric saw his chance but Davies was in quickly with a fine tackle to stop him in his tracks. Djenepo then fouled Sidibe at the end, to a chorus of boos and jeers from the St Mary's faithfull.

Everton had played well enough, but the reason was that Southampton had been desperately poor, and the inability of the Blues to run up a cricket score by half-time told the full story of their current inadequacies when it comes to the vital on-field endeavour of scoring goals.

Southampton made a change afyer the break, and Sidibe's aggression in defence yeilded a free-kick from wich Boufal fired in but it was an eeassy save for Pickford off their first attempt. The ball ran upfield for Richarlison who utterly wasted it.

Walcott and Sidibe contrived to surrender a great position on the right, and Southampton surged forward, winning their first corner, headed away by Mina. But Djnepo drove back in, winning another corner, Mina again defending it but Boufal galloped through three blues defenders, his cross defected by Mina into the path of Ings 1 yard out and a shockingly soft goal given up by the Blues, who had been caught totally napping since the break, a poor surrender of their total first-half dominance.

A great run from Richarlison but he overcooked it; however, the ball came back to Sigurdsson who curled it goalward but too central for McCarthy, who tipped over for an Everton corner. Sigurdsson drove the short corner in but McCarthy punched it away.

Tosun tried to fire on across goal and inside the far post but it was off target, Richarlison hanging too far back to tap it in. Everton, however, had realised their predicament and were at least trying to get inside the Southampton area, but poor passing accuracy again yielding possession at key moments, causing attacks to break down before. Richarlison wanted far too much time instead of shooting, and Sigurdsson was no better when nicking the ball from the Brazilian.

Mina was very lucky not to be called for a penalty when he clumsily barged Djnepo off the ball in the corner of the Everton area. A clear and obvious error? No intervention from VAR. Sidibe then body-checked Djnepo right on the edge of the area, gifting Southampton another set-piece opportunity. Ward-Prowse lashed it at Pickford, who was well-enough positioned to punch it away, but Everton were under a lot of pressure from the corner, this half a complete contrast from the first, Everton well under the cosh. Ings fumbling a cross in, but no VAR check. More corners for the home side ensued.

Everton finally broke out but Sigurdsson's clever ball straight through the defence was scoffed at by everyone and allowed to roll harmlessly through to McCarthy.

Richarlison got free again but Ings was in on him quickly to deny the shooting chance at the expense of a corner that ended up as a long throw by Digne, which bobbled off the top of Holgate's head and onto the roof of the net.

A bold double move had been in preparation from Silva for at least 10 minutes, Walcott and Tosun finally dragged off to be replaced by Iwobi and Calvert-Lewin in a desperate bid to save something from a game that showed every sign of ending up like so many away games for Everton.

Miraculously it paid off when, out of nothing, a fine cross from Sidibe to the far post where Richarlison, somewhat uncharacteristically was in the right place to hit it first time into the back of the net, a very fine finish fro only his 3rd goal of the season.

Richarlison drove forward and played in Sigurdsson nicely, the ball squirming back for Iwoboi to swivel and shoot, his shot deflected inches wide of the post. Everton kept pushing for a more decisive third goal to prevent a Brighton recurrence, Iwobi coming wide to cross in a free-kick from Digne but it struck a defender.

A great build-up saw Iwobi feed Calvert-Lewin but he could not get the shot off. Everton were camped in the home-side half, determined not to give up this one, but it was time for Richarlison's dead swan impression as he twitched in agony, awaiting the last rights, Paul Tierney finally stopping the game because Richarlison was grasping his head... just pathetic from the (hopefully) game-winner.

Michael Keane was brought on in an effort to preserve the precious lead, Richarlison going off.

Boufal won a soft free-kick to send nervous fears through Blues hearts and Romeu got on the end of it but could not make anything of it as Davies went down with cramp. The Blues incredibly played out the 5 minutes of added time to finally secure a precious historic, ground-breaking away win.

Scorers: Ings (50'); Davies (4'), Richarlison (75')

Southampton: McCarthy; Bednarek, Stephens, Vestergaard, Cédric (46' Boufal); Ward-Prowse, Romeu, Armstrong (90 + 1' Obafemi), Djenepo; Ings, Redmond (81' Adams).
Subs not Used: Yoshida, Gunn, Danso, Valery.

Everton: Pickford; Sidibé, Mina, Holgate, Digne; Schneiderlin, Davies, Walcott (74' Iwobi), Sigurdsson; Richarlison (89' Keane), Tosun (74' Calvert-Lewin).
Subs not Used: Lössol, Coleman, Baines, Gordon.

Referee: Paul Tierney

Reader Comments (284)

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Steve Ferns
1 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:03:43
I got ten of the eleven right. But it’s the eleventh that concerns me. It totally changes the dynamic of the side. That’s a very slow team down the middle even if there’s a lot of pace wide:
Danny Baily
2 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:04:06
Walcott, Tosun, Sidibe and Davies. Happy with that!
Steve Ferns
3 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:07:14
Finally Anthony Gordon is on the bench. Looks like his omission from the lineup midweek was for good reason.


Paul Jeronovich
4 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:08:36
Bad feeling about today COYB
Ian Lloyd
5 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:09:42
Schneiderlin - disgrace
Derek Knox
6 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:11:13
Steve Ferns, that too filled me with disappointment that Sch...………. you know who is in the line-up, hopefully he will make me eat my words, but doubt if a leopard can change his spots.

Glad to see Tosun is involved after recent form for Country and last week's point saver, but I still don't believe playing any 'lone striker' works!

Sam Hoare
7 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:15:54
So sloooow in the middle. Think we will hopefully be counter-attacking directly and sitting a touch deeper. Expect a lot of crosses!
Steve Ferns
8 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:16:58
BBC have Saints down in a 352 as opposed to a 343. Either way Cedric plays against Silva, having made his name under Silva at Sporting. I hope Silva's on to this and able to exploit his inside info with Richarlison getting at him as he looks weak defensively. A couple of seasons ago he was rated as one of the best right backs and his form has gone off a cliff over the last 18 months.

Their midfield will be very deep and very solid and hard to get through. They've picked a team of workers. I hope Sigurdsson can have a bit more energy and try to make things happen. He will be key to getting 3 points today. I hope he's shown Marco something special in training to get this start and then carries this into the match.

Alan J Thompson
9 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:21:42
Is that four strikers on the bench? Can't wait for the 65th minute subs.
Jay Wood

10 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:22:15
Am I reading that right? Three defenders named on the sub bench and no place for KEAN as opposed to KEANE?

Interesting promotion for Tosun. Richarlison back in his best position the way Silva's Everton plays. Great to see young Gordon on the bench. I hope we are in a position that he gets sone game time.

Saints will be well up for this. Will we is the question?

BIGGGG game this, absurd as that sounds.

Andrew James
11 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:24:37
Schneiderlin is back. Well that is wonderful.

As he said in his interview recently, he plays a key role in the side a bit like that chap at Barca.

Just seems funny to me that this key role in the side coincides with many of our poor runs like this season and the late Koeman - early Allardyce malaise.

Tom Davies will be a busy boy today.

Jack Convery
12 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:24:40
I'd have gone 442 today but with that line up why is Siggy in ahead of Iwobi.
Steve Ferns
13 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:25:25
Derek, we have no choice over Schneiderlin: Gomes, Gbamin and Delph all injured. It's a case of last man standing. I would have considered Tosun had to play based on form and the fact that when he's on form, he scores. So taking account of our centre-backs, the central midfield duo and the centre forward, I would have thought we would be better with some pace in the middle of the park and gone with Iwobi.

Gordon seems like he might get his first league game, as Walcott never lasts the 90. Be great to see him on for the last 10 minutes. I Think he's in the squad to stay now as I think he will grab his chance.

The big question though, is where is Moise Kean?

Ian Lloyd
14 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:28:36
We do have a choice in picking Schneiderlin

Any of the youngsters would be an improvement - Baningime ?


Steve Ferns
15 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:29:55
Sam Carroll at the Echo confirms Kean did travel, but no news on why he didn't make the side. Didn't fancy the cold? On his way out of the club? Not good whatever way you look at it.
Jay Wood

16 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:37:51
Calm down Steve! That's a helluva leap to make that Moise's omission is an indication that he is either a fair weather only player or on his way out of the club.

He's 19 and has only performed sporadically. If his dropping out of the squad opens a berth for Anthony Gordon I ain't knocking it. Silva has to strike a balance between risk and reward, experience v raw novice.

Given his limited options I'm guessing both Baines and Coleman may be called on to play in midfield if necessary. Fair enough, I reckon.

Danny Broderick
17 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:38:15
To be fair, if you are picking the squad including substitutes on form and merit, I agree with most of it. Tosun up front and also no Kean on the bench - this young lad Anthony Gordon seems to have played his way in, Kean’s form has been poor, and Tosun deserves his chance after last week’s cameo.

The obvious concern is Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson. I would have played Iwobi for his physicality and movement alone, and also his link up with Walcott. I would have played Davies and Sigurdsson as deep midfielders and left Schneiderlin on the bench. Oh well.

Both teams are low on confidence, so I’m expecting a tight game. Hopefully we can edge it, we may need DCL and Iwobi off the bench to do so...

Gavin Johnson
18 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:39:52
While Tosun looked up for it and earned a call-up with his late goal last Sunday I sense a boring game. As others have said. Tosun, Sig and Scheiderlin down the middle is very slow. Iwobi gifted Spurs a goal but some pace is really needed going through the middle.
Dave Abrahams
19 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:40:54
Steve (15), maybe he took sick and why Gordon is on the bench.
Derek Taylor
20 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:43:03
I see the lad back in Italy on loan by Xmas. Given that we were desperate for a quality experienced striker, he must go down as another ill-judged signing. Brands might be a genius but the only thing he's proved to date is that he can sure spend the Club's resourses !
Tony Everan
21 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:43:47
Clean sheet is the key.

The brillo pad works it's magic and gets on the end of a Digne cross.

Southampton 0 Everton 1

Brian Williams
22 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:44:28
A question, well two actually, for those of us who think the team picked is a good line up AND who AREN'T in the "Silva out no matter what" camp.

If you/we agree that the team picked is a good one and they go on to play well and win well, is that down to Silva?

If you/we agree that the team picked is a good one and they go out and perform badly and get beat, is that down to Silva?

I ask because it seems, a lot of the time, that, when we do well, it's down to the players... but, when we do badly, it's generally considered to be the manager's fault (IMO).

Tim Locke
23 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:46:12
Hopefully the Southampton old boys put on a display. Although expecting a draw at best. It’s a hard period being a blue
Sam Hoare
24 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:47:02
Zouma firmly established now at Chelsea. Think it’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting him back.

Hope Brands has a better plan B this time round. Or maybe Holgate will really make that CB spot his own? Think Mina May have been our player of the season so far (little competition).

Tony Everan
25 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:48:22
Brian, as soon as I see Schneiderlin's name on the teamsheet, my confidence takes a knock. I would rather Silva did anything with the team to not incorporate him... Saying that, we can live in hope that he puts a shift in, doesn't get sent off, and is MotM in an Everton win.
Derek Taylor
26 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:48:23
T'was ever thus, Brian. At every club in the land !
Christy Ring
27 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:53:07
I would have preferred to see Baningime starting instead of Schneiderlin, don't understand why he didn't even make the bench. Why he has three defenders on the bench, and no defensive midfielder, doesn't make sense.
Jay Wood

28 Posted 09/11/2019 at 14:58:34
Siggy leads the team out as skip.
Tony Twist
29 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:04:47
Well that's the gun loaded with that starting eleven, if he loses today then I think he will be fired. I just think he hasn't got the x factor to be a top boss and that was apparent before he came to us. Next manager has to be top class, a leader and someone savy with referees and the media. We have been naive publicly as shown with the Gomes incident and that has to change.
Steve Ferns
30 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:06:04
Love Tom Davies!
Steve Ferns
31 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:06:57
Tony, if Silva goes now, it's Hughes or Moyes. They aren't what you ask are they?
Ken Kneale
32 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:13:22
Steve I know we differ on Silva - I don't even feel he ought to have been appointed but I do acknowledge the point you make at 31. Appointments such as those would be a terrible negative step in terms of getting the club back on its feet. COYB well done Holgate and Davies
Tony Twist
33 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:22:08
Steve, that made me laugh. There is no chance with either of those two unless Brands has lost his mind!
Dave Williams
34 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:29:37
Just got in and saw the team - dreadful selection with no pace in midfield and the awful S men involved. Then saw the score!!

Fingers crossed Silva has this right as we desperately need a win. Not a team I would have gone anywhere near but it won't be the first time I have it wrong.


Tony Twist
35 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:38:15
Playing well, next goal wins it though I think. If Southampton get it then we will probably crumble, if it is Everton then it could become our biggest win in the league this season.
Paul Birmingham
36 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:46:45
Holding their own and doing a good collective team job, but the second goal is a must. Keep their fans quiet and let’s get this job done.

Team playing well and positive and no signs of tension. Long may it last.

Alan J Thompson
37 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:49:53
I'm having to follow the game via TW, BBC and Radio but have not heard or read of Schneiderlin actually having done anything. Anybody watching put me right?
Michael Kenrick
38 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:51:45
Incredible that we actually scored!

The rest of the half showed what an anomaly that was. Nothing from another ELEVEN attempts on goal. Just so little in terms of end-product...

Ken Kneale
39 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:54:25
Lack of putting this game to bed a real worry.
Ernie Baywood
40 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:56:35
I don't think he touched the ball for the first 20 minutes, Alan. I hadn't seen the team news and didn't realise he was playing.

The last 15 minutes or so he's actually done well. But we're playing Southampton who were pretty much returning the ball to us to attack again.

The first half really felt like we're playing a team that are ready to crumble if we get a second. For all our endeavour, I think the Tosun headed chance was all we managed?

Anthony Murphy
41 Posted 09/11/2019 at 15:57:09
Southampton extremely poor. They can't be any worse second half so we need to be ready for that. I'd be massively disappointed if we don't take all 3 points from here.
Jay Wood

42 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:02:44
Good half by the Blues! If anything, TOO comfortable.

The early goal lifted us and deflated them, including the home crowd.

Nice to see our 'Championship level at best' young 'uns playing so well. Again.

Good corner from Siggy, intelligent header by Mason, good positioning and finish by Tom.

Two assists and a goal from Holgate now, as well as playing well defensively. I'm pretty sure he tried a Beckham spotting the keeper off his line with that long punt from the centre circle.

No one playing badly. Tom excelling in midfield. Walcott very lively down their right.

But...we need that 2nd goal. There is no denying that Everton get very flakey after conceding.

The Saints surely won't be so poor 2nd half, so we need to be switched on from the restart and stitch together two good halves of football. Something we've done too rarely in recent times.

Don Alexander
43 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:04:13
I see Siggy is the latest to take the armband. Hmm. I just wonder, again, what goes on at Finch Farm and what the other captains-this-season think about it?
Ernie Baywood
44 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:07:50
Watch that defending from Schneiderlin. On both flanks.
Christy Ring
45 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:08:12
Any other team would have Southampton dead and buried at half-time. Sadly, because of our lack of finishing, they're still in this game.
Christy Ring
46 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:11:52
Now it's come back to haunt us. Hopefully it's not another Brighton fiasco.
Alan J Thompson
47 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:14:21
Cheers, Ernie.
Ken Kneale
48 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:16:34
There is not a captain in the team, irrespective of whomever is wearing the armband. Sadly no leadership in the technical area either.

Looking like we can no longer win an away game when we are up let alone come back from behind. I sincerely want to see some players in blue prove me wrong and settle my nerves

Ernie Baywood
50 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:54:01
Well, it's a win. About all I can muster from that.
Danny Baily
51 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:55:05
Massive win!
Simon Smith
52 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:55:07
6 points clear of the relegation zone!

What a depressing thing to say when considering pre-season optimism.

Frank Sheppard
53 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:56:01
A win away from home represents a minor miracle, even against the likes of Soton, Norwich, Watford etc.
Tony Twist
54 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:56:23
Fair dos, well done lads. With the leveller I thought we would wilt but they just about kept it together. More Marco madness to suffer now: he ain't getting sacked any time soon, worst luck.
Jamie Crowley
55 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:56:56
If biology allowed it, I'd bear Tom Davies's children.

Issy Crowley.

Brian Williams
56 Posted 09/11/2019 at 16:58:50
Simon #52.

You chose to say it. You could have said three (yes, 3) points off 5th!

Simon Smith
57 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:00:31
The table is crazy.

We are only 3 points off Sheffield United who sit 5th.

Simon Smith
58 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:01:22
I'm used to looking down this season, Brian.
Brian Williams
59 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:02:44
Simon, it's three points, it's an away win. Enjoy it. Go'n do a jig with that bear of yours.
Kieran Kinsella
60 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:04:07
Positive result. Soton made it hard to get shots in during the first half. They came out brilliantly for five minutes at the start of the second half and caught us cold with the equalizer.

The win was deserved and it's a very important one giving us daylight between us and the drop zone heading into the break. Also, we're nicely nestled between Spurs and Man Utd, which should keep the spotlight off Silva in the "sack race" for a few weeks at least.

Tony Hill
61 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:05:02
Good, a very important win. Yes, Southampton were woeful, yet they held Man City until the 90th minute last week.

Davies excellent first half then faded but he's doing fine. Holgate just needs to hone his concentration, though he has so much class and I think if he keeps learning he will be playing for England in a couple of seasons. I thought Richarlison, despite the usual nonsense and misfires, was our best player overall.

Anyway, the details don't matter. Let's all enjoy the result and the rest of the weekend.

Jay Wood

62 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:07:22
Started the 2nd half exactly the polar opposite of how we needed to.

Sidibe owed us his excellent cross for Richarlison's winner. It was his extremely poor control from a good crossfield pass from Schneiderlin that invited the early pressure and consecutive corners that eventually led to their equaliser.

Sidibe gathers the ball in with space to attack and Walcott offering himself outside and we are on the front foot.

Missing it as he did and we suffered the consequences with both the home team and support lifted.

It got wobbly for a bit, but a couple of consecutive attacks kept the pressure on and we scored a good winner in a little bit of adversity.

Siggy, Walcott and Richarlison played well, as did Iwobi when he came on, but Tom Davies MoTM for me today.

It was VITAL we got the win, all the sweeter that it was away.

Immediate pressure greatly eased for all. Now build on this, Everton.

Michael Lynch
63 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:07:59
Massive three points but I just don't understand why we are so soft-centred. The players? The coaching staff? Whatever, we made incredibly hard work of an absolutely dreadful Soton team and got lucky with Mina not being penalised in the box.

Davies was good first half, Holgate too, and I thought Sidibe was class most of the time. Richarlison needs to give his head a good fucking wobble with his embarrassing antics at the end.

Just incredibly relieved really.

Ernie Baywood
64 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:09:03
Sheff Utd maybe putting our home loss into some context. West Ham definitely putting our home win into context. This result in the context of a team then conceded 9 in their last home game.

It's a mad season where a few results will make a huge difference. Or a few VAR calls.

Personally I don't think we can afford patience. Our guy isn't good enough and there's a big opportunity for someone this season.

Steve Ferns
65 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:11:10
The table shows what a tough league it is this season. The top 4 look away, it's anyone's after that. We are level with Spurs, with Man Utd below us and Arsenal just ahead although both have a game in hand.

As for today's game, we lacked finishing in the first half, but Saints blocked well and looked alright in defence. We played well up until the final third (an old Everton story). After they scored against the run of play, we were able to (slowly) get back on top and deserved the winner.

It might not be that first come-from-behind win, but we've seen this Everton side lose when pegged back against the run of play and it was good to see us roll up our sleeves and dig in to get the 2nd goal and then hold on for the win. Good to see Silva being a bit more savvy and bringing on Keane for the end.

Decent performance, but all about 3 points away from home for me. And I'll repeat what I said on the live forum, so you can shoot me down on it: This Southampton side will not go down if they keep Ralph Hassenhuttl. Now you might think of course if they do go down, then they'll sack him before they do, no one doesn't roll the dice. So, I'll say if they give him until the end of the January window, he will keep them up. This was not a bad side and he is not a bad manager.

Christy Ring
66 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:12:30
A priceless 3 points, and Norwich after the break. Davies impressive again, and Richarlison and Holgate getting stronger with every game. Pressure off Silva, for a couple of weeks.
John Keating
67 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:12:36
The only thing that mattered today was getting 3 points, how we got it doesn't matter.

The only thing that now matters is that we bin Silva asap. Give him tomorrow to tell us how great we were in moments, however lucky we actually finished up. Then taxi on Monday.

Mike Powell
68 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:14:16
It's a win against a very poor Southampton side, who look certs to go down. Happy we won, but it's just papering over the cracks.
David Pearl
69 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:14:31
I agree with Ernie, big opportunity for a manager to take this team right up the table and challenge for Europe. The fact Silva is still tinkering with line up and tactics says a lot. Of course he has minimal bodies in midfield but still, we should of been clear at half time. Shame we have another international break.
Steve Ferns
70 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:14:58
So which one do you want, John – Mark Hughes or David Moyes?
Chris Williams
71 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:19:10
Sounded like a deserved win, on balance. You could pretty much guarantee that, as home team, they would have come out all guns blazing second half and so they did.

Very tense listening, but at least they fought back to win, against a poor team.

Sidibe is good going forward, but poor defensively, and postionally suspect. Richarlison sounded like he damaged his thigh, but how do you tell? I hope not.

Strange table this season, with teams that we think should not beat us, getting results consistently against others as well.

David Pearl
72 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:19:26
I can't see us changing Silva till we lose another couple on the bounce at least.

What does Moshiri or anyone think is achievable this season? Is it a write off with 2/3rds to play?

Arteta would unite the fans, Moyes would split the fan base, and Hughes... l'd rather have Allardyce back than him.

Sam Hoare
73 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:20:01
One or two on here and the live thread seem genuinely disappointed we won!

We weren't perfect but 24 shots to 4 away in the Premier League is always good and Southampton are not as bad as all that, they gave Man City a good game for large parts.

Win against Norwich and we will be in the top ten and heading in the right direction.

Let's enjoy a rare away win.

Derek Knox
74 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:20:21
Very pleased with the result but, there's always a but, not totally convinced that we are near to turning the corner.

We just need to be a bit more ruthless and kill games off earlier, let's face it Southampton were poor, apart from early in the second half, and the goal certainly geed them up a bit.

Confidence should be high for the next game against Norwich, but sadly another International Break intervenes again when we seem to start some momentum.

Tim Greeley
75 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:22:53
Historic, groundbreaking WIN! Well played, Blues...
Andrew Hight
76 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:23:58
Saints maybe a poor side... and yes, I want Silva out, but, first and foremost, I want us to win at all costs. Really happy with the points.
Bill Gienapp
77 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:29:21
Deserved win. Saints, to their credit, came out swinging in the second half and managed an equalizer through five minutes of intense pressure. Aside from that spell though, we pretty much dominated the match and did well to re-assert control and produce an eventual game-winner.

I honestly think the biggest difference between us and, say, Leicester City is that they're much more ruthless in their finishing. If we'd gotten a second goal before halftime, I think it would have put the match to bed. No reason things had to be as nervy as they were at the end.

Dave Williams
78 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:29:59
Phew... did we need that!!

Listened on the club site commentary. Sounds like the young lads played well again and churlish to criticise his selection after an away win.

The table is crazy and if Silva can really get his act together, as he did eventually last season, we could still have a decent season. We can't afford to keep chucking cash around so a chance for the likes of Gordon and Adeniran might be a good move to see if they might be ready to step up.

As for Southampton, I think Steve may have been celebrating our win rather too well – they are going down!!

Danny Broderick
79 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:30:47
3 wins out of 5. We could have won the other 2 if we'd had a bit of help from VAR. No need to carry on with "Silva Out" calls when the team is doing okay.

I didn't see today's game, but we are doing okay at the moment, hopefully we can build on this momentum.

Justin Doone
80 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:31:28
Excellent 3 points. Happy for Davies, we need our midfielders to start scoring and he's capable of being a proper box to box midfielder.

I can't comment too much on performances at this stage but Holgate and Davies appear to be playing a big part in our upturn.

They will have bad spells but we need to be patient and hopefully they will both continue to shine for a long time in Everton blue.

Disappointed in Schnides starting but in Delph we bought an injury-plagued player who is proving just that.

We need to buy a striker in January but we also need a quality midfielder. It's a key position and, as much as I like Davies, he's not the main man just yet.

Trevor Peers
81 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:31:59
Very relieved, well done, Blues!

I thought Davies and Holgate were the pick of our team and was hoping Gordon would be introduced near the end. All those chances we created, imagine if we had a 20-goal-a-season striker, we would be up the near top, where we belong. Buy one in the January window, please, Moshiri.

Joe McMahon
82 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:34:33
Danny, love your post. IF IF IF.
A win, but let's see where we are after December fixtures.
Tony Hill
83 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:35:10
Yes, Dave @78, great to see Gordon on the bench. There's a team in the making here, if you squint hard enough you can see a few shapes starting to form.
Raymond Fox
84 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:35:12
Away wins are difficult to come by, whoever you play, so let's give credit when it's due. I am pleasantly surprised I have to admit, you never know what you are going to get from one week to the next.

The league table looks a little more rosey after that result, here's hoping for a few more.

Steve Brown
85 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:35:32
Great win and I was impressed by Tom and Mason in particular. Now Silva is playing them they are proving his scepticism wrong.

We had 24 goal attempts and only 5 on target – we need to be more efficient. But win at home to Norwich and we might get confidence before the killer run of games begins.

Brian Williams
86 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:35:42
Justin #80. Yeh, we need to buy Lucas Torreira!
Paul A Smith
87 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:40:06
Steve, my god, mate – just enjoy the win...

I could dig at all of his critics and say you lot must think tactics and subs were amazing today due to every time we drop points they all blame tactics and subs.

Have you ever thought Silva might be doing something right. Three managers have had control of Davies now and he got nothing but stick under their wings. Now he is getting praise under Silva.

Ever dawned on anyone the manager might know more about them and has worked to tune their faults up.

I think hes managed Davies fantastically and it shows.

Tony Hill
88 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:41:26
Having wanted Silva gone after Brighton, I agree with Danny Broderick @79. I know I'm flipping and flopping but that's the reality of being a Blue.

Anyway, barring a complete meltdown, I will support him at least for the rest of this season. He's had very bad luck, we're in the QF of the Carabao and the players want to play for him (however scrappy it may be). That'll do.

David Milner
89 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:43:41
Steve @70


Tony Hill
90 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:45:31
ps: Silva got in a right nark on the touchline today for some reason, and he celebrated the winning goal with full joy. Those are good signs too.
Anthony Murphy
91 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:50:15
Made up with a good away win and opportunity to push up the table with Norwich at home up next. My concern from today is Moise Kean. It's too early to say whether he'll make it or not, but I hope there's not an issue with the lad we aren't aware of. Would love to see him get off the mark soon – if he gets the opportunity of course.
Dave Williams
92 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:50:58
Tony #83/88 agreed. There are a few signs of life. Holgate and Mina look much better than Mina and Keane, Sidibe and Walcott are developing and Tom has improved the midfield. If Richarlison can cut the drama and we can sort the main striker position then who knows what we will achieve?

Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson have to be on the bench with Iwobi at No 10 but that can come later. Recent results, if we include the cup game, are showing an improvement, so let's see if Silva can keep it going.

Bill Gienapp
93 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:55:24
Re: Schneiderlin... I'm not ecstatic to see the guy either, but he's the fifth choice midfielder and three of the guys ahead of him in the pecking order are hurt. It's easy to say "Oh, just play Baningime," but how many have even seen him kick a ball in the past 18 months?

At any rate, I think partnering Schneiderlin with, say, Delph is where you run into issues. Having Davies out there seems to balance things out more.

Clive Rogers
94 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:57:02
Shneiderlin and Sigurdsson are finished, too slow, Walcott no end product and Sidibe is a poor defender. Holgate and Davies have earned their places.

There is no decent striker at the club so we will continue to struggle. Lower mid-table most likely.

Paul A Smith
95 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:57:11
I'm glad Kean has been taken out of the spotlight before he gets the treatment Davies had for 2 years.

I don't think Davies is a top midfielder but we are finally seeing the best of him now.

Next we will have people blaming Silva for the chances we missed and rumours of training with smaller goals at Finch Farm.

Peter Mills
96 Posted 09/11/2019 at 17:58:47
Made up for everyone who travelled. Far from convincing with the final ball, pathetic defending for the goal we conceded. We were better than Southampton, who were dreadful.

Take the points, move on, but not sure where to.

Christy Ring
97 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:00:16
Regarding all the speculation, how did Hughes come into the equation? Maybe he's friendly with Bill, but even then, whoever looked at his CV needs to go to SpecSavers.
Jim Bennings
98 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:02:05
I don't care who the opponent is, this is a huge win in any season because for how many years this has been a poor fixture for us so to finally leave the South Coast with three points is big.

I'm looking now for back to back wins with a win over Norwich in two weeks time and hopefully go into that period of December in some kind of form.

Tom Davies has really stepped up and whilst he's not top class he's starting to show the same form he did when he first burst on the scene, the energy we saw from him back in 2016-17 somehow dissolved and I think the spell out of the team has done him more good than bad, he's come in and looking a different player.

He's got that berth now it's just who plays either side and in front of him, that's Silva's conundrum to solve.

Paul Jeronovich
99 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:02:22
Not arsed about the performance that was a decent win under pressure.
Kieran Kinsella
100 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:02:35

I've found myself to be suddenly rooting for Silva now that Hughes's name is in the mix, lol.

John Keating
101 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:02:37
Steve 70, why would you ask that? A bit out of order, to be hoenest.

I personally last season gave Silva 10 games this season before I decided. This season with the – on paper – relatively easy start was Abysmal. In my opinion, nothing has improved. The result was great, the performance poor. If you think Silva should stay then fair enough.

I actually think his tenure has been woeful. But please don't treat me like some non entity and embarrass me and you by asking me a him or him as if that's it like it or leave it. You've nailed your colours to the mast with Silva, your prerogative but don't treat the non-believers like that.

Derek Knox
102 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:04:09
Tony Hill @ 88, so you're wearing flip-flops are you?
Ian Riley
103 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:04:31
Silva is staying. We had more goal attempts to win three games today. If the director of football had got a proven goalscorer in the summer we would have wrapped up the game by half time. Silva is showing fight to keep his job and with a few poor decisions in previous games, we would be in the top ten. Not questioning his job.

I want Silva to succeed. I wanted him as our manager. Two week break. Lets enjoy the day. Even the rain can't spoil this. This club will put me in intensive care one day!! That I am sure!!!

Steve Ferns
104 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:05:08
Tony, if we beat Norwich at home, and that's one we all put down as a safe home win in pre-season, then we might be 8th 9th or 10th, and just points from where we hoped we'd be. It'll also be 4 wins out of 6. Then we have the fixtures take a more difficult turn, but if we can approach these games with confidence, and play like we did last season, then why can't we get some big results and have the season right back on track?

By the way our results so far:
Palace away 0-0
Watford home 1-0
Villa away 0-2
Wolves home 3-2
Bournemouth 1-3
Sheff United home 0-2
Man City home 1-3
Burnley away 0-1
West Ham home 2-0
Brighton away 2-3
Spurs home 1-1
Southampton away 1-2
14 points

last season:
Palace away 0-0
Watford home 2-2
Villa away - n/a
Wolves home 1-3
Bournemouth 2-2
Sheff United home n/a
Man City home 0-2
Burnley away 0-1
West Ham home 1-3
Brighton away 1-0
Spurs home 2-6
Southampton away 1-2

If you substitute Fulham in for Sheff utd, and Huddersfield for Villa:
Fulham home 3-0
Huddersfield away 1-0
12 points

We are actually 2 points up on last season! But we have the following teams next:
Norwich home (beat Cardiff 1-0 at home)
Leicester away (2-1 win)
Liverpool away (0-1 loss)
Chelsea home (2-0 win)
Arsenal home (1-0 win)
So need to win 4 of those 5 to maintain that.

Paul A Smith
105 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:07:59
Ian 103 what a straight realistic first paragraph.

I have no love for Silva or any manager but it's stupidly obvious he lacks certain resources and even worse to dismiss the fact.

Steve Ferns
106 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:09:32
John, that's the story today though isn't it? It's Hughes or Moyes if we sack him. So, which of those would you prefer? If you want none of them and would prefer to sack Silva and have Unsworth, then fine. If you want to take a stab in the dark and go for Mourinho, then be prepared to for another Allardyce situation and to end up back at Moyes.

I wasn't saying that either of them was your choice. These are the two realistic options according to the reports. I think we could get Marcelino, if we went big, but he's similar to Silva and would have us over a barrel, contract wise. Which is why I think Moyes is the backup plan as he would come in and do a job until the summer when we could get a decent manager in.

Kieran Kinsella
107 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:09:46
Looking at the table sixth through tenth you have Sheff Utd, Burnley, Bournemouth, Brighton and Place. None are world-beaters. Can they maintain their form?

In the bottom half you've Man Utd, Spurs, Everton and Wolves. It's finely balanced. Anyone could go on a good run and crack the top six or go on a bad run and join Norwich and Soton in the bottom 3.

Tony Abrahams
108 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:10:34
I’ve seen Schneiderlin play a lot worse, and he wasn’t the problem today, except for the goal as Ernie B@44 pointed out. He had just been done on the other flank by pace so I couldn’t believe he never got tight enough to stop the Saints player from turning, but it was our lack of bravery in the final third that was very poor today.

The winner showed all the difference about how much better we are when we play quick, (isn’t everyone) and although I thought Richarlison had been poor today, he definitely showed his quality when it mattered.

Maybe his theatrics at the end had been rehearsed and this little injury can stop him going to play for Brazil, (if they have got games) because the kid needs a little rest, and so do I from watching Everton, for a couple of weeks, although I will raise a glass to the “travelling blue army” who have finally got something to celebrate on their long journey home!

Eddie Dunn
109 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:12:24
I think Silva deserves credit today – even though I've been one of his critics. Schneiderlin did okay, against a former club, as did Walcott. Sigurdssonlooked rusty and, though he tried things, they just didn't come off. His dead-ball delivery was good though.

I must add that I have seen him animated many times this season, and he is not the sulking recluse some would have us believe.

Mina played well as did Sidibe and Man of the Match was surely Davies.

How marvellous to not have the weekend ruined. I wonder if we are actually better off without Delph?

Steve Ferns
110 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:12:55
Tony A, Rob H is home already. He's in Wetherspoons on County Road. He was flying Concorde today, I understand!
John Keating
111 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:14:15
Everyone and his dog wants Silva to succeed. If Silva succeeds, we succeed.

Maybe from today everything will change, maybe today was our Oxford “moment”. We seem to have had a few of those with Silva...

Just take deep breath, relax for just a minute, and look at his tenure here.

Exhale! Now what do you think?

Steve Ferns
112 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:14:42
Eddie, I remain to be convinced on Delph. I think he might be best as Gomes understudy, as he has a good range of passing. Davies was man of the match and against Norwich, I'd like to see Delph and Davies. Then go back to Schneiderlin and Davies for the Leicester game.
Paul Birmingham
113 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:15:11
Made up, with the win, and the general effort of the team. If Cenk had stuck that header in I think we’d have scored more as Soton, chased the game.

Poor positional and cover positional defending for a soft equaliser but give credit where due and the plater# stuck at it.

Spurs and Son are distant bad memories now so we must unite and build on this win for Norwich.

Let’s face it on their day they can turn any one over and I’m sure Pukki, whose gone off the boil, will want to prove a point. Remember Ethan Ekoku got 4, in 1-5, route, and that was at a time similar to now, in 1993.

Another massive game next week, and glad today we’ve had no descisions against us.

So for Norwich, Leicester and Old Nick away.

Taking nothing for granted, an away win anywhere is always good. Now for some consistency and a win next week at GP.

Tony Hill
114 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:20:48
Always Derek @102. To set off my kimono.

"For me football is a privilege. Being manager of Everton is a privilege", Silva just now. That's how I want our man to speak.

Brian Wilkinson
115 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:23:59
We did not beat any of the none world beaters you mentioned Kieran, we picked up just one point, which in a way makes you wonder that is the reason they are above us, with the points they took from Everton, apart from Sheffield Utd who are deserving of their place.
Chris Williams
116 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:26:14

They may not be world beaters, but all bar one beat us unfortunately and Palace drew.

One of our problem as fans was our expectations pre season, and the expected gaps in the usual top six. Our actual performances are measured against this.

With the ‘benefit’ of actual performances maybe our expectations were a bit too high.

Our first team at the seasons start was arguably worse than last season, though paradoxically, the squad had more depth after this summers recruitment, where potential sell on value was a factor. This depth has been destroyed by injury, both long term and short term. But Davies and Holgate have stepped up and taken their opportunity

I reckon Brands and co knew this which is why Silva is still there.

Cue him now getting fired!

Terry Farrell
117 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:26:34
Paul I think you are very wrong mate. Tom is a top midfielder and Holgate will play for England one day. Davies is brave hardworking and totally unselfish and I love the kid. If we had a harry kane type CF we would be doing fine. 2 weeks of var bollocks has put us back 5 points that is not in doubt. The December fixture list is the acid test. Coyb
Kieran Kinsella
118 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:28:12
Brian 115

That’s true. The season could go either way. We had bad starts under Moyes and climbed to sixth. In RM second season I kept thinking we would and it was pretty open a lot like this but we kept dropping points to the likes of Palace. I hope we do it but my point about those teams is that on paper one of us, Utd or Spurs SHOULD climb up but who knows?

Dave Williams
119 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:29:44
John #111 no argument from me. His record to date in the UK is awful. It bewilders me how a so called good manager has not been able to build on last season and I don’t accept that Gueye and Zouma are the reason.
He has had a bit of respite with the last five results ( if you accept that Brighton was down to VAR) and now has the chance to replicate what he did last season and go on a run against the better teams. For me this is his last chance. As you say if he succeeds then bloody marvellous for everyone on here. If he doesn’t then he has to go as he will not be the man to lead us back to greatness.
Kieran Kinsella
120 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:31:18
Tony Abraham’s

I’m with you. I need a break too. It’s time to mix it up and let rep of Ireland stress me out instead with the euros

John Keating
121 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:31:36

If you want me to do a Steve Ferns and nail my colours? Personally I would bin Silva tonight and ask Unsworth to stand in to the end of the season. I would get Brands and all his highly paid staff to sound out whoever and get him lined up for preseason.

The Club know everyone there is to know. They have access to everyone there is. They are paid God knows – more than me and you–- to sort things out. Sort it out!!!

Your opinion is that Silva is the man. Truthfully Steve I wish/hope you are right. Me, I think he's useless.

Stan Schofield
122 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:34:08
John @111: Okay, I actually did that. When we've played well we've played entertaining stuff, no complaints about hoof ball. We've been roughly at the same level as the others under Moshiri, points-wise.

Silva has made some decisions as baffling as the others, but has given the biggest glimmers of hope. We've been very unlucky with officiating and injuries, and the Board have failed to make some crucial signings.

On balance, I'd stick with Silva for the moment, hope we're turning a corner, and see how things pan out when injury issues become more resolved.

Danny Broderick
123 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:36:45
I’ve just seen the goal. Schneiderlin got absolutely rinsed. Body shape all wrong. If he had pressed him initially, it would have been much easier for him to defend it. Story of his career with us - let down by a lack of intensity.

Performances have picked up of late. Let’s hope it continues. The manager seems to be playing the players in form, so the onus is on the players to deliver more than it was previously, or they’ll be out of the team. Is this what is motivating them? Credit to Silva where it’s due anyway...

John Keating
124 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:47:56
Stan @122,

Truthfully I hope you are spot on and we have turned a corner. However, I seem to remember hearing the exact same when we beat West Ham.

The only thing I would suggest about both games, West Ham and Southampton, were that both teams were absolutely completely useless but somehow, in comprehensively, could have got a result!!

Our wins this season, so far, have been, well lets's be kind and say less than comprehensive.

No doubt we will beat the odd team or two but is that really what we are about?

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I just expect more. Possibly seeing a team being built under Carey and carried on by Catterick has spoiled me. Who knows?

What I do know is this present manager is crap

Bill Gienapp
125 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:55:40
Not to play the "Ifs, ands & buts" game BUT... if you look at what we've done since the last international break, including the League Cup, we've produced three wins, a loss and a draw. If not for some truly wretched VAR decisions, we might very well have won all five.

Now, that's not to say we've been playing brilliantly, as the performances have remained largely hit-or-miss. Silva has persistent issues he still needs to rectify, and we've been hit hard by injuries. But there *is* cause for optimism here.

In particular, if the Brighton match hadn't been derailed by that ridiculous penalty fiasco, we could be looking at back-to-back road wins right now, which puts our season in a *much* different light. Again "ifs, ands & buts." But I choose to look at the positive.

David Greenwood
126 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:56:29
Absolutely made up to win that, I didn't see it coming. Hopefully we can kick on.

I still think Marco needs binned, there are plenty options out there, far better than Moyes and Hughes.

Anyhow, is it true that this win means Rob has to fly to all domestic games now?

Clive Rogers
127 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:58:02
Danny, 123, yes Shneiderlin was worried about pace and backed off far too much letting the player run at him, then was too slow.
Bill Gall
128 Posted 09/11/2019 at 18:59:21
It was a good win today, but to summarize today's game, Everton beat a team that was playing as poorly as Everton have been playing for a number of games.

Today we still showed the same problems, we did not score goals when we were on top for most of the first half, and didn't concentrate on defense for their equalizer.

Today we defeated a team, that with a number of previous teams, we should be beating. Yes we had some good performances from individual players that led to a good team performance, but this was the poorest team we have played against this season and does not gloss over the previous performances.

Today's win and hopefully 3 pts from our next game will be very welcome,but this does not give the manager a get out of jail free card,and until we start wining against teams above us and not below us, he will still be under a cloud of uncertainty of his position as manager.

Mike Gaynes
129 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:04:50
Eddie #109, agree with every word of your post except for your comment re Delph. He would never have been roasted on those two dribbles 30 seconds apart as Schneiderlin was. And I think he's equal as a passer. We're definitely better off with him.

David #126, always glad to see you post. I don't think Silva will survive the season, and perhaps not even this year, but I don't see anybody currently on the Unemployed Managers line that excites me in the slightest. And yes, we'll all have to donate Rob our Frequent Flyer miles so he can travel in the appropriate style. If this keeps up we'll have to fly him across Stanley Park by chopper for the away Derby.

Amazing how a managerial change can alter a team's path -- Bayern is doing a Bolshoi Ballet number on Dortmund after sacking Kovac (which you, Steve, predicted correctly).

Stan Schofield
130 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:07:54
John@124: I'm the same vintage as you, or thereabouts, started 1961. Yes, our high expectations were set at that great time. It's just that I see glimpses now, of decent football and the team working together, but it's not very often. Just need to make it more often. And it's not Silva's fault about losing players, not getting a striker, having injuries, and the officiating.
David Greenwood
131 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:11:55
Hi Mike,
Hows tricks?

I don't think we would have to go to the unemployed managers club to replace him. Stoke just got themselves a manager who's fantastic at organising and motivating a group of players and making them hard to beat.

It's nice to enjoy a Saturday night for a change!

Paul A Smith
132 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:12:55
John I hope 02 turn the corner too, my signal is shite. (Joking)

On another note is Danny Ings going to finish his career with half of his goals against us.

We can't even escape little defects like that.

Ray Smith
133 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:22:58
In the time Keane was on the pitch, there appears to be no understanding between him and Mina.

Sidibe, Mina, Holgate and Digne, any combination thereof for me.
Not sure where that leaves Keane?

John Keating
134 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:23:00
It must be generation thing

We keep hearing from younger guys about these great managers fro AC God knows who Guys who have names ending in vowels. Guys who for some reason have to have won the Albanian Cup or whatever

Why can’t we look at managers who are absolutely shit, wastes of space
How about Alex Neil at Preston ?
No aeiou after his name. Done nothing as a player. Manages a forgotten team
Ideal for us !

Andrew Bentley
135 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:27:06
As much as this one was must win, the next game is as well. We have to get a result against Norwich after the international break as the next 4 matches for us are: Leicester (A), Liverpool (A), Chelsea (H) and then Utd (A). It’s been years since I’ve looked at fixtures like this and thought that Utd is the easiest one!!!
We need the confidence of 2 wins on the bounce, players like Delph coming back from injury, and then some good fortune (finally!) as otherwise December is going to be a grim month.
Enjoy tonight lads and fingers crossed for a big performance and goals against Norwich to build the confidence for the run coming up!
Paul Birmingham
136 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:29:02
For me, I did say that loose today, the gates woul£ be open tomorrow for Marco and his team, at Finch Farm tomorrow.

Perspective and looking at the table, it’s a strange season, and we are now 4 points off 5th place.
But we won, which is a great surprise and has become a novelty, as EFCs, away record is the pits, across the last 15 years.

The next game counts and the next couple of months will, in my view define this season, in that it could resurrect a dire season so far, or cause a merry go round of change.

Thinking of the Devil etc in 3 weeks or so, and accepting our injuries, let’s build and get strength.

Leicester are formidable but not unbeatable, the RS, are good on the counter, but pretty average in defence.

So, it’s an away win, nothing to get carried away with, as we’ve been here so, so many times, - false dawns.

May be the season, in adversity and fewer players available, could start today.

No Hopefully there’s no more injuries, reported after today’s game.

Martin Mason
137 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:34:10
Great win Blues and perfect for good results against the slightly better sides we have up next. We will be in the top 6 in January.
David Cooper
138 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:37:48
From watching the game on the TV I had to look a couple of times when we were defending corners to see that we have given up zonal marking! It appeared to me that we were marking man for man between the 6 yard line and the penalty spot. Although the Saints were not the greatest threat at corners we dealt with them better than in previous matches. A sign that things are changing?
Mike Gaynes
139 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:40:08
Could be, David #138, but I was distracted by the sight of Mina swooping through the air to head clear just about every corner they put in. He was great.
Stan Schofield
140 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:43:24
John@134: It's definitely a generation thing, in that we were bloody lucky! Downside is, the ordinariness of the last 30 years has been hard to swallow, because to us, Everton are naturally top of the heap, or should be according to the laws of nature.

It's possible that the ship is starting to turn. Even the officiating issues could improve, if that news report in the Telegraph is anything to go by.

Paul Birmingham
141 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:50:48
Hope eternal, and that’s Everton, now to keep hoping.

Interesting to see any ones views on any business in the January transfer window, but I can’t see much, aside loans, but let’s see, what transpires over the next set of very tough games starting with Leicester.

Steve Ferns
142 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:51:43
David, we switched a few weeks ago. We played the new system against Watford and Spurs. We might have done so in the Brighton game but not being in the crowd it was difficult to judge.

The system is a 3 man zonal system across the 6 yard box, left, right and middle. The rest then go man for man. Big Yerry is set on the danger man and he eats him up every time. Richarlison still seems to be on near post duty.

John Keating
143 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:55:48
Fingers crossed you are right Stan
Just feel this present guy is one who could really take us to the edge and ask us what the problem was
Tony Hill
144 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:56:59
Paul @136, we must be afraid of no-one. Quite right, Martin @137, that is exactly the confidence required.

Mike @139, I agree he's going to be wonderful, but we were lucky to avoid a penalty with his strange lunging. Like Holgate, he's getting used to it all.

For what it's worth, I don't want to write off Keane by any means. He's a good-hearted player.

Danny Broderick
145 Posted 09/11/2019 at 19:58:32
David (138)

That was the case against Spurs as well - Jamie Carragher mentioned it in commentary on Sky.

Silva is a stubborn sod, but this is one more reason why I am feeling more confident about him and the Blues in general. His team selection at Burnley away was very disappointing and I thought the end was near. He seems to have got the players all pulling in the same direction, however, and he has clearly made some changes. He has dropped some of our underperforming players since then - like Keane, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Coleman and Kean. The message is clear - if you want to play, you have to perform. Let’s hope it continues...

Christy Ring
146 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:03:30
Davies has been a breath of fresh air, he’s an attacking midfielder, and a total change from Silva’s two holding midfielders. Silva wouldn’t pick him earlier in the season, and only brought him back against the hammer’s, because he had no one else, thankfully he can’t drop him now.
Jamie Crowley
147 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:04:25
I thought Schneids played well. Then Mike Gaynes told me to look out for the goal conceded replay.

Dude got ROASTED.

Sans that, he played well. He actually played the ball forward multiple times. But you can't defend like that and concede.

Still think it was a great game. Many things to dissect, but I'd rather enjoy the three points right now - it was so, so needed that victory.

Oliver Molloy
148 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:05:25
Hugely important we beat Southampton and Norwich before we entering the toughest December fixture list we have had in a while.
Wins breed confidence so today was massive. Well done to the team and manager.

Paul Birmingham
149 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:08:23
I agree today some signs of belief, on the bench, the manager and coaches and the team sticking together.

Good signs, but must be kept consistently to be ready for the next battle, v Norwich.

We can’t afford any more injuries, but let’s keep up the team work, spirit., and belief, shown today.

May be some finishing practice and also shooting outside and from the edge of the box.

But at least a decent Saturday night, which has become another novelty of late, with the teams performances.

John Keating
150 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:10:37
Result was everything
Absolutely everything which must be reproduced from now on - where have we heard that before.

Young Kean must be totally pissed off not even getting on the bench especially after the imposter - yes that is Silva excuse

The Club is more important than one man Moshiri must act now

Danny Broderick
151 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:18:36
John (150),

Let us all enjoy a win FFS! Polluting a thread yet again calling for the manager’s head...

Brian Williams
152 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:26:10
Oh John.
Ernie Baywood
153 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:32:16
I'll never understand that Danny. The binary:
win = no complaints
lose = spewing bile

How we play is an indicator of future results. And we're not playing well. In a season where a few points is the difference between a European place and the relegation spots.

Show some ambition and sack the guy. And don't tell me we can only get Moyes or Hughes. We're still a club with a big budget (including the manager's wage on offer) and some good players.

David Cooper
154 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:32:31
Thanks for pointing out that The zonal marking change happened a few games back. I don’t remember it being clearly so much more successful today than it had been before. As for Mina he stand head and shoulders above nearly everyone else and is becoming a rock in the centre of defence. Also I think the addition of Sidibe has added an extra presence at corners. However it does concern me how often he gets beaten in open play when defending and will really need Walcott to help him out when we come to play Leicester and the RS. Maybe I should be focussing more on the positives! But last year I hoped for more physicality in the team which we now have. Now can we have more pace in midfield! Can we have everything all at once please!
John Keating
155 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:32:39
I am not polluting the thread but I am calling for the managers head
Have you read the rest of the posts?

I think what I am many others are saying is yes we can enjoy a much needed win but is that one off a get off ?

You say let’s enjoy the win Totally agree
How many times have you said that this season?
You should be like me, appalled by our results

Don’t get on at me ask Silva why we couldn’t get these results earlier Why we are where we are

Dave Ganley
156 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:42:32
First of all, I'm so pleased we got the win, albeit against a very poor Southampton side. It was desperately needed. However, let's not pretend that everything is rosy in the garden. People having a go at posters having an opinion on Silva should actually look at how poor we are. These same people baulk at suggestions that we accept mediocrity yet in the same breath talk about turning corners when we beat a poor Southampton team recently walloped by Leicester.

I heard an interesting interview on the radio today about Leicester when they sacked Puel last season. It was because the board thought the Leicester squad was underperforming. Look at them now. We just accept rubbish periods where we go weeks without winning, months without winning away and think it's ok . It's not ok, we have won nothing for 25 years.

I cant work Silva out. We had an awful 3 months last season, finished the season really strongly, playing exciting football yet start the season very very poorly again. I think I've been entertained twice this season, the rest of the time has been cross. Yes we are in the quarter final of the league cup for which I'm eternally grateful but the league form is shocking. This league is a very poor league. City and RS are light years ahead, leicester and chelsea playing ok, the rest are just much of a muchness despite millions being spent by clubs. Its not competitive it's just poor. We are one of those poor clubs. Silva needs to show a lot more than he has to date. Nobody wants a succession of managers, least of all Mark bloody Hughes or Moyes mk2, but he cant keep producing half arsed performances week after week, he needs to start showing he can hack it at Everton. Presently he isn't doing that for me.

Steve Ferns
157 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:47:17
John, I think you can lay off him for a few weeks. He needs to beat Norwich and then he needs to win some of these difficult matches coming up. He only gets a pass for the poor results if he can show that he can pull rabbits out the hat against the top sides like he did last season. As above, we are 2 points up on last seasons results, but to maintain this we need to win 4 of the next 5, so that means beating 4 of Norwich, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Leicester. I think we'll do well to get 7 points from them, which would then leave us 3 points down on last season, which is a fairer reflection of the season so far. If we end up beating Norwich and lose the rest, and end up 7 points down on last season, you are well within your rights to call for his head. Let's see how he goes first eh?
Gary Willock
158 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:55:16
Two full backs and a centre half on the bench - why?

Show Gordon he has a glimmer of hope, and then kill any confidence gained from it by bringing on a centre half when it’s his own position who goes down - why?

Bring on a Center half for a attacker, telling the other team to ‘go for it, we’re going to sit back and hope’ - why?

No bringing in Beni / Adeniran to subs to get them ready in case needed (only a Davies injury from being in real shit in this area) - why?

Kill off the fragile confidence of a 19 year old potential star by preferring two ageing full backs on the bench - why.

This isn’t “polluting a thread” this is simply asking genuine questions about a baffling manager who has “moments” and not much else. If you’re happy with 13th and a “moment” against a shit Southampton good for you. Personally I want more from this great club!

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum remember.

Stan Schofield
159 Posted 09/11/2019 at 20:59:32
Dave@156: What you say is true. We can only hope we're gradually generating some momentum. There are signs of fight to complement the obvious quality we have. We can only see how things pan out over the next few games. We could change the manager, but it's a risk, a risk of starting all over again, which could really disrupt any chance of gradual momentum-building.

We're not playing well, but we won, and last week we drew in the face of appalling officiating that pissed a lot of us off. We're not shite.

Mark Guglielmo
160 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:02:49
I'm assuming this is mostly still complaints? If I'm wrong, tell me before I go read 158 short-form essays :-)

Hey we won, 3 pts is 3 pts. No style point bonuses, alas. But, an AWAY WIN!!

Very pleased over here, something to keep building on. Not for nothing, but (counting the Cup tie), we're 3-1-1 in the past 5, and 1 terrible VAR intervention away from 4-0-1. Happy Int'l break fellas.

Steve Ferns
161 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:11:11
Gary, it's a fair question to ask why we had three defenders on the bench. It's also worth noting that Silva often goes with one defender, one midfielder and a load of forwards. So it's a big change for him. I'm very surprised that Moise Kean was not on the bench. If he was and say Baines dropped out, I'd have said, ok it must be injuries. It did not make sense at all to me.

For what it's worth Jay, I do agree with your post at 16! I just worry our young Italian is having a nightmare that's getting worse and then ends up in disaster. I hope he's able to prove himself in training and get back in the side and show us all what he showed for Juve only 6 months ago.

John Keating
162 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:16:58
Steve 157
Steve no problem I want him out you are happy to give him more games

You told me after the West Ham game to calm down that we were on the up
Sorry mate wrong
You tell me how long we have to put up with this dross?
Please tell me when you, his most supportive follower, will say enough?

Steve, I personally put a limit on Silva and it had now passed

Surely even you must have a limit

The odd win just masks over his incompetence surely ?

Paul Birmingham
163 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:23:53
Norwich next, and a win and a nothing less is needed.

The confidence to approach the Leicester game in good spirit is massive.

Waterloo, Dunkirk Spirit, and Rourkes Drift spirit, stoically, is needed.

I agree this malaise of form can’t last but it’s a perennial issue at the club, and since the events of May 1985, the club has never returned in to the real world of football.

The squad is down to the bare bones, and it looks like we have a few players whom will, always be sick notes, unfortunately.

But if Leicester are the yard stick this season, then surely we can compete and be on par.

The lack of an end product in front of goal, is crucifying is, and I fear, very, very harsh lessons in the next couple of months.

But I see Mina, as growing by every game and will be a match winner for us very soon.

It’s no where near close to good, but some better signs, at the end of last weeks games and during today’s game.

Dave Ganley
164 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:24:16
Stan you're right we're not shite, Southampton are shite. We are just one of quite a few poor clubs, having an occasional decent performance interspersed with poor fare out on the pitch. I agree we have been on the receiving end of some shocking referee decisions, to the point whereby I sometimes think there is an FA agenda against Everton. However that is a completely separate issue and shouldn't mask the fact that it overshadows poor performances.

I am just sick and tired of year after year we have to endure awful periods in a season and then come good when there is nothing left to play for. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum has never felt further away.

Gerry Ring
165 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:24:56
It was a big relief to get the win today but let’s face facts! In his time at Everton and in all his previous managerial roles, Silva has done nothing to indicate that he can lead us to “glory”. We need to be looking for his successor now. Take Tom Davies as an example, he was cast aside and is only back in the team due to injuries to other players. Kean is likely “damaged” to the extent that his confidence is through the floor & he’s probably sorry he ever signed for us. Silva hasn’t the passion, guile or competence to manage us and at this stage won’t acquire any of these three qualities needed to manage a special club like ours!
Brian Williams
166 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:27:34
Three defenders on the bench and three midfield/forwards and a goalkeeper.
Is that not a balanced bench?
David Cooper
167 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:32:09
No matter where we move up to after the next game or down to after Christmas, Silva is not the manager/coach to turn us into a team that can challenge for a place at the top table. His collective premier league record does not suggest he is capable of achieving that. But at the moment I cannot see a replacement who can turn our collection of individuals into a team. No unknown names of managers who are being successful in the Europa Cup!
Joe McMahon
168 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:36:32
Does anyone think that having "The Legend" as the coach for our forwards is an issue? He was never anywhere near a prolific goal scorer. Just makes me wonder as for the last few seasons Everton have wasted so many chances in front of goal.
Steve Ferns
169 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:39:56
John, you see things very differently to me. Maybe you see all the negative amplified and I see all the positive amplified and the reality is somewhere in the middle?

24 chances for the Blues today. We got about them well except for just after the restart. I thought it was a decent performance. I thought we played well against Spurs and should have won. I thought we played well against Brighton and should have won. I think we have been the better side in most of the last 5 games or so, City aside, but even in that game we had chances and could have won. I think we could have won every game we have played this season. I think we need to be better, but if we are only slightly better then I think we were winning 5 of the 6 games we lost. I think the manager will get that bit extra to win those games out of the players and improve us. So, no I won't be giving up on him.

I saw Mike Walker's Everton getting smashed. I saw all the Everton managers since getting smashed in the games preceding their sacking, Moyes excluded although he had his share of big defeats. This is a long way from the end of Koeman's time.

I also think we will win silverware this season.

Danny Broderick
170 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:41:11
Some of you need to get a grip. Today wasn’t a one off. We’ve won 3 of our last 5 games and were very unfortunate not to have won all 5. Now I am not suggesting that we are suddenly the best team on the planet, but we have been doing ok for the last month or so. Today we had 24 shots to their 4, although I didn’t see the game.

Likewise, I will not suddenly think we are the worst team in the world if we lose our next 2 games.

Perspective is seriously lacking with some of you.

Stan at 159 sums it up perfectly.

Darren Hind
171 Posted 09/11/2019 at 21:44:04
Lots of players blowing hot and cold today. Luckily we were hot for a little longer than we were cold.

Sidibe - Moments of genuine class, but whats with this quitting lark when he should be busting a gut to get back ?

Mina - Trusts Holgate more than he trusts Keane. He played well today, but was very lucky boy not to concede the dumbest of penalties
Holgate - Oozes class, very comfortable with the ball at his feet, but guilty of being over casual on more than one occasion. He got away with it today, but he must learn.

Schneiderlin - One of his better games.. but very poor for their goal which could have cost us dear.

Davies - Does Tom go for a Tacho break ? I really like this kid, but one minute he is really looking the part, Then, for some inexplicable reason he disappears for 15 minutes.

Walcott - gave us much needed pace and looked quite impressive at times. . but he chickened out of a couple of challenges when the going got tough and allowed Soton to get out and counter.

Richarlison - I thought it was quite revealing when Holgate ran 20 yards to drag him to his feet. Seems the players have had enough of his antics too . . Then he only wins us the match.

I though Siggy, Digne and Tosun had quiet games and Pickford didnt have much to do either.

We were lucky in the sense that we came across the only team in the league who are even lower on confidence than we are. but I'll take this victory and celebrate it. God knows we needed it.

Joe McMahon
172 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:00:25
Steve F, sadly we also got tonked many-many times with Moyes. Even WBA, Bolton, Blackburn all hammered us. And don't get me started on the pitiful Moyes 11 years of nothing at Anfield.
Danny Broderick
173 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:01:25
Ernie (153),

I also hate the notion that if we win, everything is automatically ok, and if we lose, the dummies get thrown out of the pram and we are shite etc.

Some people just have an agenda, and are waiting for the ‘told you so’ moment when we get beat. And if we win or are doing ok, they will persist that they are right all along and that anyone else trying to give a balanced judgement lacks ambition.

Les Moorcroft
174 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:03:51
Am in porto was on a bus tour of there yard while game going on. Just got on toff web. First one I red was 111. And spot on lad. We got 3 points. Enjoy. Moane tomorrow. Efc.
Christy Ring
175 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:18:59
Gary@158 I said it when the teams was announced, why three defenders and no Beni, he had him on the bench a couple of weeks ago, another blunder by Silva, Brian Williams @166, you say we had 3 midfielders on the bench? If Schneiderlin or Davies got injured, Iwobi was the only replacement, and it’s in his DNA, he can’t tackle
Jerome Shields
176 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:32:38
It's got to the stage that Everton just need results. Glad of the result today and they really need to beat Norwich at home. Silva's selection and players' form are going to be variables with this team.

Unfortunately it will never be the right enviromment for Kean to develop; he should have been on the bench at least.

John Pierce
177 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:34:43
Ha! We won. Watched after my Colombia v Harvard game. Couldn't believe it! Well done Marco.

Let's have though, that should have been put to bed by half time. Those were terrible. The problems are all still glaringly obvious and a better team doesn't let us off the hook.

Some great combinations, which didn't quite come off. Thought Davies was excellent, Schniederlin very tidy, Cenk did link up well and Sidibe is deffo the current answer at right back.

Holgate and Mina very solid. Despite that, it took only 5minutes of pressure for us to concede. We also simply aren't clinical enough. Those are the big take always, and they have to be addressed.

Marco fresh from slyly putting out some scary alternatives in the press, keeps his job for now. Well played, Marco, well played.

Derek Knox
178 Posted 09/11/2019 at 22:45:48
Steve F, @ 169, you don't double up as Gypsy Rose Lee at Southport Fair during the summer do you?

A very bold prediction there my friend, "we will win silverware this season". I sincerely hope you are correct, but we will either have to be very lucky, or pull off a miracle under Silva, because quite frankly, I can't see it with even the most optimistic expectations!

Neil Wood
179 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:02:07
Big shout out to Holgate. I've been clamouring for him to start for a long time and have often been shouted down on here... One of the best and most gifted footballers at the club. I'd say an England call up beckons but he doesn't play for a Sky darling.

Kieran Kinsella
180 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:09:15
I'm usually a moaner but today I feel like a man wandering in the Sahara who's found an oasis. There may be some camel piss in it but I'm damn thirsty.
Andrew Keatley
181 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:22:37
Paul A Smith (87) – Do you really think "Silva has managed Davies fantastically?" I think he's only ever thrown him in as and when his more fancied options are injured or suspended – not necessarily when they have lost form. Fortunately for him Davies has stepped up. I don't think that is fantastic management.

Derek Knox (178) – Agreed. We are 10/1 to win the League Cup, and best price 25/1 (with SportPesa – which says it all...) to win the FA Cup. I know we're probably due something after missing out for 25 years but for Steve F – why do you "think that we will win silverware this season"?

Paul Birmingham
182 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:26:42
Hope eternal, fekkn blind hope, but that's killing all, of us.

One Day Soon, Please, for Everton to win a trophy before the Everton oldest and old guard is brown bread!

Thank you.

Jay Harris
183 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:28:37

You remind me of me when I was younger and used to say to my dad "We shoulda won" and he would say "Shoulda doesn't get you the points, lad, only wins do that."

Silva is a busted flush but I do think if we win against Norwich and have a half decent December he will have earned the right to get until the end of the season.

Leicester and Sheffield Utd are currently showing us what good managers can do with a team.

I am grateful and relieved to get the 3 points today but, as John Keating pointed out, we have only done well against very poor sides. West Ham were the poorest side I've seen at our place and Spurs werent much better but for Southampton to still be in the game and equalizing after half time is a disgrace.

We need to score goals and defend better ( Schneiderlin was a disgrace for their goal just brushed aside and not even a token challenge).

Our build-up play is good but at times we couldn't even score in a brothel.

Jay Tee
184 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:29:07
Watching Match of the Day and how all the winning teams complete a majority of chances to score and have shots at goal. If we completed some of the chances in recent weeks and today we would be up amongst the top 4. I still don't rate Silva though.
Mike Doyle
185 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:29:20
Particularly pleased for the away fans. My God you deserved to witness a win at long last. Hats off to you. Safe journey home.
Paul A Smith
187 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:41:37
Andrew, you are entitled to feel that way but I don't see it that way. Davies has had nothing but stick for 2 seasons and I think bedding him back in has been intentional and correct.

The lad looks stronger now and that has taken time. He was very timid on the ball, possibly nervous of the crowds reaction and lacking confidence.

He still has flaws now but is building confidence. He's not the finished article and sensible management has kept him out of a struggling side.

Look at the lads again today, they look together and seemed to either love the fact Davies scored or the fact a plan worked?

They all speak highly of Silva and look happy, our problems are down to quality overall.

Everyone here has seen us blow many games we should have put to bed.

Jay Tee
188 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:48:18
Schneiderlin was rubbish when defending prior to their goal. The player should never have got past him and then he looks on as if to blame everyone else for the goal.
Jerome Shields
189 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:51:36
Dereck #178,

I also have had the feeling that this team could win silverware this season. I think that this team is more a cup type team. In one-off performances, they are able to raise their game and players brought in, who are seemingly out of form, can do likewise.

The other thing is that enforced changes are building enforced resilence in the team. I also think they will just about avoid relegation and will infuriate throughout the league campaign.

Derek Knox
190 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:58:37
Jerome @ 189, 'Could' is a very ambiguous word, as is 'should and would' indeed, but I do sincerely hope that you are right!
Martin Berry
191 Posted 09/11/2019 at 23:59:29
A travesty if we had not gained all three points but, there again, it shows how soon you can lose them.

Really pleased for Tom Davies as I thought he was "boss" today and for someone so young (that some forget!), well done.

Andrew Keatley
192 Posted 09/11/2019 at 00:10:09
Paul (187) - I think Tom Davies is currently in the team because of injuries to Delph, Gomes and Gbamin. Silva is using Davies now out of necessity, not out of any studied consideration of timing. I think Silva deserves credit for bringing Holgate in to the starting XI, but I don’t feel the same about Davies.
Jerome Shields
193 Posted 10/11/2019 at 00:11:58
So do I, Dereck. This is going to be a crackpot of a season.
Christy Ring
194 Posted 10/11/2019 at 00:27:53
Andrew @192,

Completely agree. I said it myself, he played him because he'd no-one else.

Andrew James
195 Posted 09/11/2019 at 00:48:31
Steve Ferns

I agree with you. I am not quite the fan of Silva you are yet I see a team who need some luck and for some players to hit form.

We don't look as lost as we did under Koeman. The players still show fight and appetite.

The relationship Silva has with Richarlison is key as that guy can score the goals we need.

We need certain players to step up like Tom and Mason are doing.

It's a shame we won just before another break.

David Thomas
196 Posted 10/11/2019 at 00:56:04
Steve Ferns, you are more fanatical about Silva than any fan I've ever known has been about any player or manager in my lifetime. He simply can't do wrong in your opinion, can he?
Steve Ferns
197 Posted 10/11/2019 at 01:28:53
Actually David, I wasn't happy with the team selection. Then there was the subs, and also I think he gets the balance on the team wrong.

He's too attacking at times, reckless and when we go behind he throws on too many attackers without having players in midfield to give them the ball, when sometimes we just need to get hold of midfield. He also doesn't protect leads enough.

I was pleased to see he sent on Keane today to shut up shop. Something he hasn't done for a while. I also think he has stood by Coleman too much, this season and last. He doesn't play Davies or Kenny enough. There's loads of stuff he does wrong.

Kieran Kinsella
198 Posted 10/11/2019 at 01:50:13
Mike Doyle 185

Yeah the away fans were fantastic today. Louder than the Saints from the off and there in large numbers to the end. Long old trip from Merseyside too.

Bill Gienapp
199 Posted 10/11/2019 at 02:25:38
As others have alluded to, one reason to remain hopeful about Silva is that, in spite of our struggles, there still seems to be good team spirit and unity.

Contrast that with the dourness of Spurs, who seem to be defined by the likes of Eriksen and Alderweireld at the moment – guys who were looking for the exit and forced to stay put.

Laurie Hartley
200 Posted 10/11/2019 at 06:09:31
Sad to say the days of me getting up in the middle of the night to watch Everton are long gone. I usually wake up on Sunday mornings thinking “brace yourself”.

So my reaction to seeing the result on the BBC website this morning was one of enormous relief - we needed those 3 points like a drowning man needs air.

We need another 3 against Norwich.

I have to say I saw some signs of life from the players in this game. Even Schneiderlin, despite the fact that he did get done like a dinner for their goal, showed much more desire today.

I thought Davies and Holgate were terrific, and Mina is really starting to look like the Colombian World Cup center half we signed last season.

Actually, Mina and Holgate look like our long term centre back pairing to me and we will rely heavily on these two young men to perform well if we are to get through December relatively unscathed.

As for the managerial debate, I am over it for the time being, I just want the players to show the same attitude they did today during the rest of November and December.

I admit I have been like a bear with a sore head for the last 4 or 5 weeks. My only excuse being that their is SO much at stake for the club between now and Christmas.

There is a huge financial decision to be made by the board in the very near future and the players have to make that decision easier for them.

Paul A Smith
201 Posted 10/11/2019 at 08:40:31
Dave 196, maybe Steve just sees the bigger picture and isn't satisfied with the quality and the ridiculous managerial merry go round we keep playing while losing all their best performers.
Dave Abrahams
202 Posted 10/11/2019 at 09:04:33
Laurie (200), youndid yourself a favour in not watching the game, saved your blood pressure from going sky high.

I didn’t watch it either just listened in to the live forum, Everton and a few on live forum raised my blood pressure a lot higher than it should have been.

As you say, those three points were massive, no matter which way we got them. A bit of English steel were added to the team in the last three games, Holgate and Davies, and have improved the team no end.

There is still plenty to be done, to turn the season round from doom and depression, let’s hope Silva has the answers when Brands supplies more ammunition in January, still a long way to go.

Hope springs eternal, it absolutely has to when you are an Evertonian.

Laurie Hartley
203 Posted 10/11/2019 at 10:38:25
Dave - yes, despite everything we still hope. We are a stubborn breed. Goodison will be full for the Norwich game.

Up the Blues!!!

Christy Ring
204 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:09:54
Silva left Kean out of the squad yesterday, is it his fault the manager played him completely out of position a winger, instead of upfront as a striker. How low must his confidence be now?
Paul A Smith
205 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:17:35
My word, Christy, you know nothing about Kean. Any Evertonian that does knows very little.Did you watch Kean for Juve? Let me tell you he was not their main striker when he was on the pitch.

I will take any constructive criticism of Silva on board but loads of it is just bitchy.

Steve Carse
206 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:27:17
There's an undercurrent of negativity in regard to Richarlison in this match report, at its most puzzling when the description of the winning goal includes the words that Richarlison 'somewhat uncharacteristically was in the right place'. 'Uncharacteristically'? Where does the foundation for that comment come from?
Frank Crewe
207 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:28:06
I think finally Silva has realised it's time to stop picking players who have been letting him down. Sidibe and Holgate should have been in weeks ago yet he persisted with Coleman and Keane. Gylfi is low energy. Iwobi has brought quicker play and greater energy. Davies, who I have been as big a critic of as anyone is really starting to show he can play.

Again a far more energetic player than the likes of Shneiderlin and Delph and he is prepared to play the ball forward rather than sideways or back just to keep possession. I also think Silva needs to keep Tosun up front rather than DCL or Kean. It will give us an experienced striker up front who is prepared to get into the box.

He needs to stick with this side as much as possible until any of them lose form and then make changes and not just keep picking them in the hope they'll just get better again. The players have to realise that no matter how senior they may be their spot in the side is not assured and they will be dropped if they fail to perform on the pitch.

Tony Hill
208 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:39:22
That was a very good save indeed by Pickford from Ward-Prowse's free kick. I've just had another look at it, it came at a critical time.

Also, what a great move before Cenk made a mess of his header. Incisive ball from Schneiderlin was part of it and then great work from Tosun himself and Theo.

It's these flashes of excellence which keep me hoping.

John Kavanagh
209 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:44:54
Steve #197. Unlike you, I don't believe Silva should continue as manager - for the very reasons you state. I don't think Silva trusts our young players and has only really used them when forced to. They get dropped asap in favour of other players who consistently fail to perform, sometimes even after scoring. I was bemused to see Silva ranting at Davies when he went down with cramp having run his heart out. You'll never see him doing that with Schneiderlin or Sigurdsson eh!

The performance of Holgate and Davies yesterday show that our youngsters have the fire in them so lacking in others. There are others beside Gordon who at least merit a place on the bench.

I agree his substitutions are sometimes frankly ridiculous but disagree as to Silva bringing on Keane yesterday. We often invite pressure onto ourselves trying to defend and almost inevitably concede to set pieces.

Silva's only saving grace is that our clueless board see Moyes and the Lego headed Mark Hughes as the solutions to our plight. It beggars belief.

Ray Smith
210 Posted 10/11/2019 at 11:57:15
John 209

With you 100%

A very good post.

Christy Ring
211 Posted 10/11/2019 at 12:38:17
Paul @205, I know as much about Kean, as you do, so less of your bitchy comments.

I saw Kean at Juventus, for your information, and he was the supporting striker, and never a winger. I was at the cup game against Watford, where Silva played him as a right winger, where he was completely lost, and was substituted at half-time. So playing him out of position, and then dropping him completely, that tells you everything about Silva.

You also praised Silva for the way he has handled Davies. Check it again, he only played Davies against West Ham, because he had no one else, he kept playing Schneiderlin and Delph, two holding midfielders, when Gomes was out, and Davies has proved himself, despite Silva.

Paul A Smith
212 Posted 10/11/2019 at 12:56:25
You just have a Silva agenda Christy like loads of fans and its often wasted energy. Kean didn't play and we won.

Very picky to suggest hes out of order for giving him a chance supporting the striker from the right, where he gets a bit more time and space then subbing him because he was poor.

I can't remember who it was above suggesting Silva gets no praise for Davies because it was forced on him but praised him for Holgate who actually came in because Mina was injured if we look at the real story.

I can't understand why we waste energy making things up to suit our arguments and holding things against him for not playing a player that has shown no potential here whatsoever.

Why don't we make some comparisons before slagging the manager that knows Kean well, before we decide to hold onto small points about one kid.

Look at Rashford for instance. Right, Left Central. Kean is working for a future in the game, learning the front line. No 19 year old comes to the prem from abroad and leads the line. Its absolute blind to think it should happen.

All modern coaches talk about attacking playerd needing to learn different positions. And especially when they are not a great striker yet.

Kean needs loads of time and if you bought into Brands great ideas you should be willing to understand hes got to learn how to take the pace and physical side of England before hes got any chance.

That has been the case with most youngsters from abroad and plenty of experienced players.

Christy Ring
213 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:17:04
Let's be honest, Kean is only 19, the price tag hasn't helped him, but his proper position, is to play him alongside Calvert-Lewin.

As for Rashford, do you not think he's a lot more effective as a striker? I like Holgate, and he deserves to keep his place.

I'm not slagging Silva, but we lost Jagielka and Zouma, neither replaced, and with Mina injured, Holgate was the only replacement and thankfully it worked a treat.

Daniel A Johnson
214 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:19:29
Okay, first of all, a great win,

That should take a little bit of pressure off and maybe we could go on a run?

But then again this is Silva. Look at Lampard & Rodgers. Good managers are good managers they have an impact.

Silva has had a season and a half and two of the main transfer windows and look where we are. Does anyone seriously think if we stick in 18 months time we will be top 4 or 6 contenders? Seriously?

Silva isn't a good fit for EFC same as Emery isn't for Arsenal. The inevitable will happen & month by month Silva gets cheaper to sack.

Its interesting that with Unai Emery they say its communication that is the problem, he can't get his message across due to the language barrier and as such doesn't have a good relationship with the squad as he doesn't talk to them much. Is that Silva's problem he just can't communicate with the squad very well?

Derek Thomas
215 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:27:24
Christy @ 213; of course it is. Strikers should work in pairs, smash and grab, Young and Vernon, Sharp and Gray, etc, etc, etc.

But Silva won't go 4-4-2 as long as he's got a hole up his fundiment.

Derek Knox
216 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:29:49
Daniel A Johnson, good points you bring up there, but common sense would surely prevail, if the language factor is being such a problem, whether it be Silva or Unai Emery.

These guys are on massive salaries, if that was the main problem, surely they would employ an interpreter so nothing gets lost in translation, and they could easily afford that out of their own pockets.

If I were in a Foreign Country and in any walk of life that is what I would do, while learning the language myself. I remember Pochettino when he first went to Spurs, any interviews were carried out this way, and presumably on the training pitch too.

Since those early days he has learnt the English Language well, and I can understand him very easily and distinctly. I do admire Pochettino by the way, but the problems at Spurs are not from his mismanagement but lie somewhere else.

Paul A Smith
217 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:31:52
Christy I agree mate Kean is just a kid. Hes got loads to learn in a strange country and full of exposure.

Richarlison is miles ahead of Kean in any position across the front and he is still learning his trade too.

I hate these expresions to be honest mate. I always believe a striker scores goals and the rest is the down to the rest.

In the modern game which is becoming more and more confusing for most novice players, I have to be realistic and go with the "learning his trade" bracket when it comes to Kean because so many factors stop him doing what we need right now.

I have said all along its a great signing but it wasn't and isn't enough. Why buy Kean and Iwobi when them 2 fees and wages could go to a real forward is always my thinking and I feel that is far more logical to keep improving results.

Thats just me. I used Rashfords name with intention too Christy because like you I prefer seeing him central.
Do coaches though? They choose which opposition he can expose before he gets a start up front.

Against the other shower he is always trying to expose Terence Trent Alexander West Derby from the left.

Look at clips of Kean at Juve again mate, a lot of his running comes from the left and bits from the right and centre.

I don't mean to offend by the way mate I just think we look into the wrong things far too often.

Daniel A Johnson
218 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:31:56
I agree Derek I understand SIlva quite well in interviews but there are times where it seems there is a massive disconnect between him and his players.

There must be some reason for our abysmal form and lack of fight this season.

Derek Knox
219 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:34:14
Derek T @ 215, that's the way to go I believe with the players we have at our disposal, but like you say he will not change things.

Maybe he needs a good boot up his fundiment! 🤔

Paul A Smith
220 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:35:23
I think Emery (a coach with great credentials) has had similar issues to us.

Arsenals front 3 I would love here but bar that I think its the worst Arsenal spine I have ever seen.

I wouldn't have 90% of their players here but lets have it right, they decided to settle for top 4 as success a long time ago and now its affecting their ambitions.

Eric Paul
221 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:45:31
Steve @197,

Taking a striker off and replacing him in the closing stages of a game with a central defender to shut up shop usually has the opposite effect by causing confusion in the box.

Tom Bowers
222 Posted 10/11/2019 at 13:53:48
The fact that the current bunch of so-called strikers at Everton have been under-performing for a long time gives credence to the fact that Kean has not been given a fair run in the side.

Walcott is way past his best and Richarlison is still playing the fool when he gets tackled. As for the rest, Calvert-Lewin, Tosun and Niasse all triers but below the standard required at this level.

There will be much sterner tasks coming up than Soton pretty soon so Silva better get things right.

Paul Tran
223 Posted 10/11/2019 at 14:09:54
Interesting league in lots of ways.

Pochettino's big problems are that Spurs play relatively low wages, they've spent/borrowed heavily on the stadium and they still haven't won anything. Something has to give there.

At Arsenal, they're struggling from a few years of stagnation under Wenger. Emery's English appears very basic - would that be an issue in such a diverse squad? Looks more to me like, similarly to Silva, I'm not sure he's getting his message across and he doesn't know his best team. I'd love his forward line!

For me, it's all to play for for us, with the right manager. Is that man Silva. I'm not convinced, but it looks like he's going to be given the chance. I hope he finds the answers.

Anthony Murphy
224 Posted 10/11/2019 at 14:19:29
I know this is stating the obvious but December is make or break for our season and Silva's future. Norwich we should beat (although nothing's guaranteed in the prem), which takes us into a difficult run of fixtures leading up to the congested Xmas period. Silva has a real opportunity with those fixtures to give the fans some much-needed belief in him and what could potentially lie ahead.

For me, a couple of games stand out as real potential defining moments - Liverpool away and Leicester in the league cup. A win in both gives Silva the chance to inject belief and build a rapport with the fanbase. Beating Liverpool at Anfield is long, long overdue - what better time to stop the rot there - it's not impossible. Getting ourselves to the league cup final isn't impossible either - Leicester at home - they're doing well but they're not Barcelona.

So Marco, you have a fantastic opportunity in December to make a huge statement of intent. Alternatively, you could be starting the new year looking for a new job – over to you.

Andrew Keatley
225 Posted 10/11/2019 at 15:14:09
Paul A Smith (212) - “I can't remember who it was above suggesting Silva gets no praise for Davies because it was forced on him but praised him for Holgate who actually came in because Mina was injured if we look at the real story.”

That was me. Holgate came in when Mina got injured, but Silva did not opt to pair Keane with Mina as soon as they were both available again - he has stuck with Holgate and been rewarded by his generally excellent showings thus far. Tom Davies has been repeatedly overlooked in favour of players who were unfit or out of form. Silva may now decide to stick with Davies, but until we have other players back in contention to replace him then it feels premature to give Silva much praise. Regardless, my issue is with your original statement that “Silva has managed Davies fantastically”. I don’t see it myself.

Darren Hind
226 Posted 10/11/2019 at 15:25:42
I thought Silva made a massive mistake sending Holgate out on loan.

I remember arguing before last season started that Holgate was a vastly superior footballer to both Mina and Kean.

In fairness Steve Ferns, who had clearly done his homework on Silva, told me That he wont play Holgate because always preferred the big dominant type of center half. and so it proved to be. Shortly after the start. Holgate was shipped out.

Holgate brings us something different to the other two. He is a footballer, He takes chances, but he will not take a backward step. if it gets a bit fiesty.

I hope Silva now sees what some of the fans saw and realises Mason does bring something different

Brian Williams
227 Posted 10/11/2019 at 15:35:41
Darren, I think being out on loan has been the making of Holgate mate.

Seems a lot stronger and a lot more streetwise since he came back.

Still has the odd lapse in concentration but he's definitely learned a lot in the Championship.

Joe McMahon
228 Posted 10/11/2019 at 15:38:05
Darren, fully agreed. The £25 million also spent on Michael Keane was £20 million to much. Ben Mee would have been a better purchase.
Darren Hind
229 Posted 10/11/2019 at 15:50:01
I don't agree that going out on Loan helped Holgate. I would go as far as to say it held him back.

He very comfortable with the ball at his feet. He could play anywhere across the back four. WBA lost their right back and thats where Mason played all season. I see that as a year taken out of his development as a center half.

I don't think he became street wise because of the loan period at all. he just matured. that happens between the age of 21 and 23.

We are weak in central defence, really weak and Silva must take the blame for that. Keane has been exposed without Gana in front of him and although Mina is improving You always know there is a mistake in him. He could well have cost us the game yesterday.

Paul A Smith
230 Posted 10/11/2019 at 15:59:12
Andrew he had to drop Keane. His form for us and the well known fact he cost England goals was too much..

Keane only has size/prescence over Holgate in attributes but as soon as Holgate makes a couple of errors hes back out. No manager will have a player getting used to making mistakes so the media and fans can tag them.

I find it crazy that people get the ideas in their heads that the manager has a ageism issue now.

Only our fans could come up with that and forget he has signed Richarlison twice (few months older than Davies) and countless times picked Calvert Lewin over Tosun.

The simple fact is Richarlison is more advanced physically and balances both sides of the game better than all our younger players.

Give Davies a quiet game or 2 and everyone is on his case again.

Darren Hind blames Silva for us being weak at Centre Half. Words fail me. He must have said spew the Zouma deal and lets stick with Keane who was grim under Koeman aswell.

Holgate went on loan because Zouma Mina are better than him and we obviously wouldn't loan Keane out.

How on earth does anyone know the loan wasn't marvelous Marcels idea?

Eric Paul
231 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:06:09
I’ve always rated Holgate as a footballing defender who was coming along nicely until the derby when he accused shergar of racism, we didn’t see him again until now
Paul Tran
232 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:07:53
Everyone I've met working in Burnley couldn't believe we bought Keane and not Mee, though they keep telling me that Keane is quick!

I think Holgate's loan was good for him, not for his CB development, but more for him getting games. Like all younger CBs, he has lapses in concentration, but that will improve with games. I'd keep him in the team.

Danny Broderick
233 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:09:48

It's interesting you said:

“We are weak in central defence, really weak and Silva must take the blame for that.”

I'm or going to disagree entirely with what you have said, but surely this is more down to Brands than Silva?

I'm not a fan of having a director of football. I believe that without a DOF, we would have replaced Lukaku. Instead, we seem to be trying to sign either kids (Sandro and Kean) or value strikers that may pay off (Niasse and Tosun scores goals in obscure leagues so we're considered worth a punt. We also took a punt on Rooney on a free).

Back to centre-halves anyway. We had to let Zouma go back, and we let Jags go. Everyone knew we needed a centre half. Silva made noises that he wasn't happy that we hadn't got more players in by August, and I think he also said something about being disappointed that we didn't get a centre half in once deadline day had passed. The manager wanted another centre half, but the club didn't bring one in. Surely Brands is culpable for some of our recruitment issues this summer, and the manager has been dealing with it since?

John G Davies
234 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:15:41
Let's not be too hasty with the accolades for Holgate.
He played well yesterday but cost us a goal last week.
Paul A Smith
235 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:17:40
Fans analysing Holgate

Personally I think he can only be a long term centre half in a 3-man defence.

Mina is a great partner for him right now because his presence is huge where he can dominate and Holgate is good across the ground.

His best game for me was the same game he pushed Firminho. He was solid that day.

Danny @233, I don't see one tiny detail to suggest you are wrong?

Jay Wood

236 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:22:32
Steve @ 206:

"There's an undercurrent of negativity in regard to Richarlison in this match report".

I agree, Steve. Credit to Michael for typing out a live running report on every game, but this one reads as predisposed to be critical of Richarlison.

Michael describes the 1st foul on Richarlison as "collapsed under minimal pressure, a light hand on his shoulder."

No it wasn't! He was chopped down by the defender who got nowhere near the ball.

His running and positioning for the winning goal is curiously described as 'uncharacteristic'.

The incident in the dying minutes which saw him subbed off was described as "time for Richarlison's dead swan impression as he twitched in agony, awaiting the last rights, Paul Tierney finally stopping the game because Richarlison was grasping his head... just pathetic."

This ignores many things. It was not a foul. I don't believe Richarlison was playing for one. But in the coming together with the Saints player he clearly takes a heavy blow on the thigh.

Anyone who has played football will, in all likelihood, have experienced something akin to that. It can leave you with a dead leg, immobilized and unable to run freely.

He was clearly holding the injured thigh as well as having his palm over his eyes.

IMO, it was not 'pathetic' but genuine.

Richarlison had a very good game yesterday without any of the histrionics he has been accused of in the past week.

Criticize him for his more evident simulation. Don't be predisposed to ridicule and condemn him when he is innocent of the charge.

Frank Crewe
237 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:23:31
If they told me that after 12 games we had won more games than Spurs I would have expected us to be in the top 4. Yet in actuality neither club is anywhere near it. Hard to believe but such is the vicissitudes of football.
Conor McCourt
238 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:31:14
Darren I like you have always rated Holgate but I disagree that he hasn't been managed well. Last year he was given chances by Silva but was just too raw and was rightly fourth choice based on form.

The loan has ensured he plays games which was never likely last term and with losing Zouma and Brands cock up over the summer it was clear to me that he would get his chance as the Keane Mina partnership was never going to work.

Thankfully he has grabbed it with both hands and since his introduction we look a far better outfit. I still hope we sign a left sided centre half in January who has pace so that we can have a combination of partnerships and wouldn't be averse to letting Keane find a new club.

Andrew Keatley
239 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:52:39
Paul A Smith (230) - Silva did not have to drop Keane. I actually think Keane has been unfairly scapegoated, particularly for England, and another manager might have backed him to come good by playing him through the criticism. Silva gave Holgate some minutes and decided to stick with him - possibly wanting to take Keane out of the firing line at the same time. Who knows exactly what the thought process was, but I'm sure there was a thought process there, rather than it being a total no-brainer.
Darren Hind
240 Posted 10/11/2019 at 16:52:54

I don't agree. Holgate may have been a baby by center half standards, but was playing first team football long before Silva got here and he was looking the part. (many people forget that) He was made scapegoat by Silva for some desperate defending throughout the team. and he sent him out. Unfortunately the defending was still pathetic. Silva had failed to identify the problem.

Holgates problem was he didnt cost a fortune. There was no pressure on Silva to play him.

We'd have surely lost that game yesterday if it was Mina and Keane. Mina cost us one goal and was very fortunate that he didnt cost us a penalty too

Paul A Smith
241 Posted 10/11/2019 at 17:09:24
Now VAR has finally cleared Salah's goal up and it was onside.

The first goal is beyond me though, i thought the rule was any touch of the hand in the box is handball regardless?

The Premier League is awful with these 2 sides dominating.

Andrew Keatley
242 Posted 10/11/2019 at 17:13:07
Darren (240) - Very harsh to say that Mina cost us a goal yesterday.
Conor McCourt
243 Posted 10/11/2019 at 17:17:37
Darren our defensive unit was the foundation of our strong form towards the end of the season. I agree that Holgate wasn't the problem but I feel it suited both parties for him to get game time.

I feel he needed to grow into himself and working at WBA who are a really physical unit has improved him immensely where he has hasn't been bullied once since he has come into the side this time around.

For me he is currently the centre half who should be first choice despite playing on his unfavoured side and him and Mina complement each other well.

Darren Hind
244 Posted 10/11/2019 at 17:34:03

Harsh on Mina, for calling him out on the Southampton goal ?. . are you sure ?

You may want to look at it again.
He has a free header from the corner which he should have powered away, instead he connected with his ear and got no clearance. Then when the ball came back in He is standing square on with his legs wide apart giving himself no chance of adjusting his feet. If Ings doesnt tap that in, its going in off Mina anyway.

Lets not forget the incredibly stupidy push which should have resulted in a penalty. Most top defenders would not commit that many errors in ten games. Big Yerry did it in ten minutes

He is very strong and wins his fifty fifty tussles which catches the eye and endears him to fans, but his poor positioning and ball watching have been awful this season.

I'm going to give him time because I can see potential and I know he has had problems finding full match fitness, but I wont be won over because he shakes his fist at the crowd to show how much he cares

Andrew Keatley
245 Posted 10/11/2019 at 18:18:42
Darren (244) - Yes, I am sure. Thanks for the invite to watch it again though. Jeez...
Paul A Smith
246 Posted 10/11/2019 at 18:23:55
Andrew I think it was Schneiderlin at fault like most people who saw it more than once.

I don't even think it needed a second look. Mina got the ball away from where it was heading (the 6 yard box) and Schneiderlin was slow and lazy in pressing the second ball.

Then like a dosey schoolboy, failed to show the man onto his weaker side and allowed the man a huge advantage for an assist.

Darren Hind
247 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:02:29
Dear me.

Mina had a free header and by that I mean no challenge whatsoever. He fluffed it, it came off his ear and was bouncing without even reaching the edge of the box.

He does his job and heads that clear, we don't concede the goal. He gets his angles right and clears the second cross... we don't concede the goal.

Andrew Keatley
248 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:42:40
Darren (247) – I saw what happened, I just don't consider that what Mina did “cost us a goal”. Like Paul A Smith above I'd probably be more critical of Schneiderlin, but I also wouldn't say he cost us a goal either – more that he got beaten rather too easily twice in 60 seconds.

It's okay for people to have different interpretations of things. I agree with you on many things but, on this point, I think you are being overly critical of Mina – that is all.

Tony Hill
249 Posted 10/11/2019 at 19:56:30
What Holgate has is the arrogance/self-assurance we need if we're going to develop as a club and team. He has a long way to go to justify it, but it's part of his make up.

I doubt he's a barrel of charm but that's all to the good as far as I'm concerned. He looks like a winner, now he has to make himself into one.

I believe he could become one of the great defenders and he could also be a nasty, successful captain in due course.

Christy Ring
250 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:05:21
Darren, I couldn't blame Mina for the goal. Like Paul and Andrew said, Schneiderlin was totally to blame. I

'm a big fan of Holgate and his pace is huge, because Mina and Keane aren't as quick, he's like Ake at Bournemouth. I remember him playing in the derby against Firmino, and he impressed me then.

I believe the loan to WBA did nothing for him, because he played at fullback. Luckily because of injury he has proved himself, like Davies.

Michael Williams
251 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:20:06
If I had to portion out blame for the goal, Schniederlin would get well over 50%.
Darren Hind
252 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:23:00
That's fair enough Andrew. We all have an opinion
I personally think you are being hard on Schneiderlin.

I think he is an easy target because he as been so poor recently, but Mina is the defender here. His header is as poor as they come and that's what put Schneiderlin in trouble. The guy was quicker and if he'd challenged he risked giving a penalty. Mina then compounded his first error by standing square on doing an impression of John Wayne. Two glaring errors. which led directly to the goal.

If you don't think those two really poor attempts by Mina (not to mention the stupid foul he got away with) make him culpable, that's up to you. But what I saw was abject defending.

Tony Hill
253 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:39:42
Apparently, Unsworth found out that Gordon was on the bench from his Sky App. Not ideal. He also said Baningime was excellent again today and it seems Foulds may be on his way in the summer.
Dave Williams
254 Posted 10/11/2019 at 20:57:52
There was still a lot of work to be done at the point when their guy picked up Mina's headed clearance so I wouldn't blame him. I don't blame Morgan either. Okay, he was beaten for pace but these things happen. The goal looked bad but it wasn't given away like so many have been.

The TV commentary said it was another set-piece goal conceded which was a bit rich bearing in mind the ball was cleared (okay, not very far but cleared nonetheless) and they then attacked fresh from the corner.

We are looking better at the back and the unit needs games to knit together. Mina looks good and Holgate has it in him to be a top-class centre-back but needs to concentrate.

Hugh Jenkins
255 Posted 10/11/2019 at 22:35:58
I am pleased to see the Holgate is making good progress in his favoured CH position, as opposed to right back.

I remember remarking when we sold John Stones that I wasn't in the lease concerned, because I thought that overall Holgate was better and would develop into a better all-round CB than Stones.

Hopefully his current performances are helping him get there.

Soren Moyer
256 Posted 10/11/2019 at 23:22:30
Papering over the cracks! All is papering over the cracks!
Derek Knox
257 Posted 11/11/2019 at 08:00:26
Siren, the thing is, the paper is extremely thin, and the glue is of very poor adhesive quality.
Martin Mason
258 Posted 11/11/2019 at 08:54:20
Schneiderlin only has one weakness as a defensive midfielder. He can't defend.
Justin Doone
259 Posted 11/11/2019 at 09:42:22
Great away win. Only viewed highlights so very limited in what I saw. Interested to read some other comments and in general Davies appears to have had another very good game.

The Mina and Holgate pairing has done pretty well but against out of form teams.
Mina has the size and strength, Holgate adds speed and composure. I'm not a fan of defenders over playing and Holgate does have a tendency to do that.

He's compared to Stones for more than one aspect of his game and when 'the mistake' happens I only hope he realises it and cuts it out. Stones never did.

I've no issue with Schnides getting roasted and out paced. It happens to everyone. I just don't like him or think he's good enough. Bad attitude, poor to average player.

Unfortunately his current inclusion (no excuse at seasons start) is similar to the managers situation. We currently have no better alternatives.

We need to limit taking gambles in players (Davies and another teenager would be a risk) and also our next managerial appointment.

So we are stuck with them for the season and as much as I never wanted Silva the football is watchable, a massive improvement on Sam.

I'm sure Unsworth or Moyes could come in and do a good job but they are not going to get us challenging for the title.

IMO Mancini would, he may become available after the Euros. He's always been my number 1 managerial dream.

So it's sensible from Moshiri to be patient and stick with Silva until a more proven quality manager becomes available. It also helps hide his own misjudgement.

What's missing is a clinical finisher. But we fans know that, why doesn't Brands and / or Silva?

Kean may come good. But if he's sulking, unhappy, not playing or training well then Silva is right to drop him. He may have a niggle or illness that we are unaware of. Being the only Italian he may be home sick, but it's upto Kean to help himself as much as the Everton staff.

Fingers crossed Santa can bring him and the rest of the team what we all want for Christmas, wins, goals, clean sheets and smiles.

Justin Doone
260 Posted 11/11/2019 at 09:50:23
Sorry I missed out silverware. Please Santa, top 10 and winning the FA Cup. We can then send Silva off with thanks instead of boos.
Soren Moyer
261 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:23:17
Derek, I bet our board are looking at where m. united are and thinking: hey, there is only 2-3 points separating us from them so we must be going in the right direction!!!!!
Conor McCourt
262 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:44:55
Sorry fellas but those of you trying to put the blame onto Mina or excuse Scneiderlin's lack of pace are completely missing the point.

It was woeful from Morgan and I'm judging it only on the incident and not of a pre-determined view of the player.

Firstly he strolled out to his opponent letting him get set and turned when he could have closed him down immediately.

Then he backed off him showing the player where he wanted to go but without putting in a tackle. Yes he got done for speed but this was after his first two mistakes.

Not only this but just before it he was roasted on the other wing.

Darren Hind
263 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:01:09

Sorry Mate. I think your confirmation bias is showing there. I don't need an invitation to criticise Schneiderlin, but he was never in possession of the ball. He had a man driving at him in the box.

We had two glorious chances to clear that ball... Unmarked, unchallenged Mina fluffed both of them. I don't see how anyone can defend that header. It was appalling, an absolute invite.

Jay Harris
264 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:01:12
Exactly Conor.

First rule of football get yourself goalside of the attacker.

Second rule of defending "They shall not pass" (legally of course).

Schneiderlin just jogged along making little or no attempt to stop the cross.

Mark Guglielmo
265 Posted 11/11/2019 at 19:42:38
Hey guess what? Anyone want to take a shot at guessing how many away wins we had through matchday 12 last year?

Ok fine, I'll tell you.


Yep, one! It came earlier (early October) but we still only had the one. We got a second in very late December. Perspective is oh-so-Important when building cases for, or against, someone or something (99.9% of which on TW is re: Silva).

Ok part 2, do you know how many points we had through matchday 12 last year?

Ok fine, I'll tell you.

Nine (with a -9 gd, compared to our current 14 pts, -5 gd).

Yep, nine! Against very similar quality of opposition, contrary to the narrative that many have espoused. More perspective. Everyone try to smile over the int’l break, things aren't as bleak as they seem.

Laurie Hartley
266 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:34:13
Justin # 259 - Holgate did have a good game. One thing I noticed that you may find reassuring (I certainly did) was that when required on a couple of occasions he put the ball straight into row Z.
Jay Wood

267 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:22:30
Ehrm...Mark @ 265.

You might want to check your sources and your data.

By game 12 last season we had 19 points and a positive goal difference of +4, having just drawn 0-0 in an impressive performance away to Chelsea. We sat in 9th position.

That's 5 points better off than we are now and a goal difference negative swing of 9 goals when compared to this season.

And whilst some fixtures were similar to this year's opening 12 games, by game 12 we had played away to Wolves, Bournemouth, Arsenal, Leicester, United and Chelsea. A far more challenging set of fixtures.

Methinks you have skipped a season and compared this season to the Koeman-Unsworth opening fixtures of 2017-18.

Your numbers and conclusions are way off from the reality.

David Pearl
268 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:38:57
Mark, in any case, since then we have spent a further £100 odd million, still haven't got the team clicking and are worse off with a very tough December coming up.

I see Arteta is being linked tonight... it had to improve over the Moyes and Hughes links from the weekend.

Jay Harris
269 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:50:26
Where did you see that David.

It wasnt from the daily snot saying Pep was leaving City at the end of the season and Arteta was going to move on was it.

I saw something but it didnt sound credible.

Conor McCourt
270 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:50:50
Darren we will agree to disagree.

With regards to confirmation bias last season I was arguing Morgan's case but cannot do so for this season or especially this incident.

I agree with you regarding Minas header that he should have got distance with a firmer connection but he did the job in getting it away from the danger zone.

I played right back at Irish league level and had I been in Schneiderlins position I would have been up the attackers arse before he could get turned.

Secondly there was a man beside him covering the inside so Schneiderlin shouldn't have been backing off as he was square on and couldn't react when the guy went for the line even though that's the only place he could go. His body shape should have been showing him that way in preparation for a tackle long before he entered the penalty area.

Mina is then just hoping as he's trying to cover the front post but the attacker can shoot, drill it like he did or cut it back so it's very tough to blame him for that as he's a little exposed.

David Pearl
271 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:23:01

One of a couple on tonight.

David Pearl
272 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:26:24
Conor, Schneiderlin should never have gotten beat so easily outside but, once he did, Sidibe was scared to tackle him. He wouldn't've got past Hibbo.
Mark Guglielmo
273 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:42:06
Jay @267, completely my bad. Brain was one place, typing hands were someplace else.

What I meant to say was that comparatively to the same 12 fixtures, with only subbing the relegated/promoted sides as best as possible, we've actually done better. So it's a game like-for-like, not a 12 games through the season. Hopefully that clarifies things. Though a different road traveled, it still arrives at the same destination, we're actually a tick better than last year, given those 12 games/opponents.

Mark Guglielmo
274 Posted 11/11/2019 at 23:49:35
David @268, I know what you meant, but we really only spent ballpark £35m. Brands's job is not just to add, but also to subtract deadwood. Something he's maybe halfway there so far.

I don't know how to look this up, but how many minutes have our presumed starting midfield played together this year? I'd wager 0. You can't just dismiss injuries as if they don't matter. (not you specifically, just in the general 'you' sense) How do you get a team 'clicking' when it's cobbling together a bunch of misfit toys?

Thankfully Holgate has really stepped up, but we are still razor-thin at center-half, and even as Kean's biggest supporter, we don't have anything even remotely resembling a regular goal scoring thread at center-forward.

None of this is on Silva. There's plenty that is, but none of this, and all of it has contributed to the difficulties we've faced so far. Would you agree that, since West Ham, we've been considerably better, both in results, and quality of play?

Games 1-8: 2-1-5, 7 pts, 6 goals, -7 gd
Games 9-12: 2-1-1, 7 pts, 7 goals, +2 gd

(And results are results, but most would agree that, if not for the horrible VAR overturned call at Brighton, we'd be 3-1-0 in those 4 matches)

Paul A Smith
275 Posted 12/11/2019 at 08:27:10
Can just see the headline now.

Everton line Arteta up to be criticised for 3 years on tactics and subs.
Followed by a list of accusations with no substance or thought whatsoever.

Conor McCourt
276 Posted 11/11/2019 at 13:15:03
Paul A Smith- the problem is that you and I were getting hammered for being negative and pointing out the clear deficiencies while everyone was rejoicing over our summer signings on the close of deadline day.

If you look at the spine of our team from last season Pickford,Zouma,Keane,Gueye,Gomes and Siggy, it was only really up front where we were particularly weak. This season with Gomes being practically absent and the lack of form from the keeper and Siggy the entire spine of the team has been ripped out.

Yes we now have a deeper squad but the foundations are clearly weaker. This is not an attempt to excuse Silva for some of his stubbornness, loyalty to underperforming players and inflexibility but Moshiri and Brands have managed to escape criticism as the PR machine continually tells us that Silva spent over 100 million this summer and we should be top six.

We had all hoped watching Kean last year that he was going to catch fire early but in reality not many players rip up the prem in their first season let alone a 19 year old. Let's judge him next season as you see the progression of some players like Fred who was being described as one of united's worst ever players last season but has come on in leaps and bounds this year.

Conor McCourt
277 Posted 12/11/2019 at 13:18:32
Sorry the above post was for the Moise Kean being handled correctly title.
Tony Waring
278 Posted 12/11/2019 at 16:11:16
Slightly off topic but avcording to The Times (Tuesday) Borussia Dotmund are keen to sign Anthony Gordon. Interesting that they see more in him than our manager.
Paul A Smith
280 Posted 13/11/2019 at 07:49:23
Conor I couldn't remember who it was that I saw getting stick for being concerned about the squad. And rightly so.

Its not your fault hype and a lack of open minds had too many thinking Brands could do no wrong and players were more advanced than what they actually were.

I showed people the reaction to your posts and they were pretty much disgusted. Loving a dutch newbee up while giving a long term Evertonian stick.

Conor McCourt
281 Posted 13/11/2019 at 08:41:10
Paul A Smith- in fairness most of the stick I got was cordial but my suggestion that Keane and Mina wouldn't work due to their similar strengths and weaknesses was ridiculed because I was apparently guessing and never seen them play together.

Some just felt that you could just replace Gueye with a new player to the prem and nothing would be lost despite him being as good as any player in that position last term.

Long term I think the window won't turn out disastrous as hopefully Kean and Gbamin will come good possibly next season and Iwobi and Sidibe have already done quite well but the top 6 predictions for this season I just felt were ludicrous.

Paul I think there was a fella who got quite personal abuse a week or so before who first questioned Brands. He brought up some great points about the lack of real investment and the youth paradox that Brands said he wanted yet sold 3 top prospects without giving a real chance. Yeah I remember he was getting called a nutcase and all sorts. I remember writing a post saying not too much he has said you could argue with despite him totally against the grain.

Paul A Smith
282 Posted 13/11/2019 at 09:44:34
There was plenty to be happy about in the window Conor. The problem was we needed a perfect window after losing what we lost and it was far from it.

Reading those posts to you, demanding you just be happy, made me angry to be honest as I found it patronising and sounds like the attitude of a doormat.

It's common theme though. The irony in some of the most arrogant of posts is unreal and I can't get over how people can write so well with the most closed minds I have ever witnessed.

If Brands was this genius I doubt he would be here for a start because as these "just be happy" crowd tell you, you have to be realistic.

He is a simple book balancing assistant for Moshiri. The fact he left the manager short says it all. And like it or not, that is exactly what happened.

For you to get stick for that is just bullying.

Conor McCourt
283 Posted 13/11/2019 at 11:14:02
I think the problem Paul is and it happens every transfer window is that everyone is just so happy to see new faces that critical thinking goes out the window. The same happened when we bought all that unbalanced garbage under Koeman/Walsh.

In addition Brands has been a revelation since Walsh with how he conducts himself and his first window was an unparalleled success. Therefore most of our fan base were lulled into a thinking that this summers outlay was just going to work out like the previous one without analysis.

Many were so impressed by this guy that were deluding themselves into seeing things that weren't reality. For example some were saying that Silva seemed delighted with the transfer window despite highlighting the areas he wanted and didn't get, and that he looked happy in the Palace press conference when he was visibly annoyed.

The ironic thing Paul is that despite me being really critical of Brands this summer I am actually quite happy he is here as although I agree with you that he has been a balancing book assistant for Moshiri I do feel he is still being constrained by the previous regime and has showed a lot more vision and ruthlessness than we have had until now.

It is just now some of our fans are beginning to be more fair minded as this love in became so out of proportion that I joked that Brands had killed a twebbers wife but the supporter was delighted as Marcel was saying a few words at the funeral because he felt so terrible in mudering her in cold blood.

Paul A Smith
284 Posted 13/11/2019 at 18:35:36
I just want us to move forward properly mate. Buying the best of the bottom half was ok for us 5 years ago but now its quality needed every time or we stand still.

The other shower done it for years mate and while they couldn't get to where they wanted to be, odd things happened like Steve Finnan becoming the best Right back in the Premiership if you spoke to them.

We always had the opportunity to laugh at their delusion when in a normal world we had no right really, but we always had that consolation of their gullible opinions.

While everybody knew we had no money and it definately held us back, they were wasting it, buying 5 good players when they only needed 2 top players.

Arsenal started it and to an extent lately Man United have joined in. The penny has finally dropped for Satans sons and look at them now.

We obviously won't be able to go head to head for them top sides for players but there is enough scouting and slippery agents to get more quality in.

Injuries have been awful this season but on a positive note for us fans it should make us go for players in January. I don't believe that was their plan but it has backfired on them board members. Again.

Go back to Allardyce's spell. Moshiri has ended up having to lay 2 big wages out to basically keep us up. Again to an extent we are stuck with them players now, and now in the same position as then.

I can't believe we didn't learn from that and hate to think how much it could really set us back?

Conor McCourt
285 Posted 13/11/2019 at 19:22:07
Agreed Paul we are now close to a position after the next summer where we can start doing that quality over quantity.

But the problem still remains as to whether Moshiri has the real desire to move us forward. I think he produced about 20million net despite all the bullshit top 6 noises. I would love to know how we fared in the net spend table as I know that even Villa went close to 100 million.

With regards to the winter window I'm not too sure they will dip in as they know the pressure is on Silva and not Brands/Moshiri and Marcel always speaks about not getting value. I wish he would just understand that you can also oversell as well as overpaying so it can be balanced out.

With Gbamin due back and Holgate doing well I would love a goal scoring winger or centre forward depending on the availability of the right player rather than the position. I think they will probably wait til summer for any other business buddy.

Paul A Smith
286 Posted 13/11/2019 at 21:17:40
I think if Calvert Lewin (or any of the forwards to be fair) have a hot streak in the fixture pile up before the window, we won't buy a forward though I wouldn't bet against looking at Giroud in some sort of deal.

I also think Silva knows its a long season to leave the midfield on Davies shoulders while he is developing and lets face it Gbamin is looking at very late in the season to gain any form so he may look at bringing a midfielder in.

With Brands looking for the players or being key to doing the deals it doesn't really matter who the manager is mate, they just have to work with whoever he brings in.

If it turns out we are still within a few points of the bottom 3 when the window comes, we will be forced to buy.

Mark Guglielmo
287 Posted 13/11/2019 at 21:53:09
Conor @285 our net spend from this past summer window was roughly £35m. That even includes loan fees and such. Many of our bigger signings were offset by departures of just about the same value.

Gana >
< Gbamin

Lookman >
< Kean

Vlasic/Onyekuru >
< Iwobi

Basically leaves Gomes & Delph, or the £35m.

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