VAR denies Everton rare comeback away win

By Michael Kenrick 26/10/2019 485comments  |  Jump to last

Yerry Mina is out with a minor knee injury that has limited his training this week

Everton's visit to Brighton in Week 10 of the Premier League features in live commentary on BBC Radio 5.

With all eyes on Marco Silva's line-up, the chances of him sticking with the winning team from last weekend after dropping both Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson for the victory over West Ham always seemed remote. But he did his best in the end, the only change from last week's winning team being a forced one: Mason Holgate in for the injured Yerry Mina.

That means Coleman, Delph, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Kean, and Calvert-Lewin are all on the bench as Everton took the field in their lurid salmon strip.

A nice early attack down the right saw Iwobi feed Walcott but his cross was really poor in the circumstances. Azate made a rather nasty-looking late challenge on Davies, but no complaints as the tempo of the game slowed.

Everton seemed stymied and resorted to the long ball, Walcott called offside. Brighton replied in kind, Maupay marshalled away from goal, where he fired well high and wide. But Everton played themselves into trouble, Gomes giving away a dreadful free-kick just outside the box. A brilliant very powerful strike but what on earth was the Pickford doing, it went straight through his hands?

So Everton now with a massive mountain to climb, knowing their abysmal away record and their abysmal non-record coming back from conceding the first goal. Sidebe was next to give up a free-kick, but Pickford grasped this one out of the air and almost let Bernard loose at the other end, winning their first corner, Richarlison driving home with his head at the near post!

Walcott then had a fantastic chance but Ryan was out quickly to make it difficult for him. However, the Everton equalizer, somehat put of the blue, had enlivened the game a little. It was eventually given as an own goal by Webster.

Off the ball, Bernard slid and overstretched his knee, Sigurdsson coming on in his place. Sigurdsson soon had a chance but with his left foot, too weak. Everton finally mounted a break, Richarlison running well down the right and Iwobi almost forcing another own-goal off Webster.

Walcott got another chance but this time it came off a defender's midriff, as Everton failed to generate the intensity of effort they had showed last week and the sides drifted into the half-time break.

Digne went to ground hard after the break but soon recovered to take a fine free-kick to the far post where Davies was lurking. The resulting corner was attacked by Richarlison, winning another corner that was hit low and seemed to go right through everyone.

Walcott looked to get past his man off a nice cross-field ball, but won another corner, the ball coming out to Iwobi who fired it back straight at Ryan. Richarlison felt a feather stroke his hair and collapsed in a heap.

Everton were largely in control of the game without really imposing themselves where it mattered, with a lack of quality sadly evident as they huffed and puffed, simply not good enough to really break through against the home side.

But a clever move say Brighton score at the near post only for it to be called offside while VAR went into action, confirmed. Brighton made a double change on 65 mins, prompting Marco Silva to consider his options: Calvert-Lewin readied to enter the fray in place of Iwobi, and Fabian Delph in place of Walcott, the changes delayed interminably by a dosier of verbal instructions.

A clever piece of play by Richarlison was wasted, Walcott a victim of his lack of physicality throughout. At the other end, Trossard crossed very well for Maupay but his execution was thankfully poor at the far post.

Pickford made a dramatic dive to punch away a cross. Holgate drove forward unhindered and played a beautiful ball through to Calvert-Lewin who turned well and slid home a quite exquisite finish with consummate aplomb.

But minutes later, Brighton got a penalty, thanks to VAR, Michael Keane adjudged to have trodden on the foot of Aaron Connolly, and Maupay slammed the spot-kick through where Pickford was standing to make it 2-2.

With Everton thinking they had done all the hard work, the impetus now swung to the home side, who pushed forward with pace and intention, testing Pickford and his defence.

Holgate was the next Everton player to dive in wrecklessly, this time on Maupay, to earn a yellow card and give away another extremely dangerous set-piece... Dunk fires it a Pickford who palmed it straight to Trossard and was very lucky not to concede a winner to the home side.

Brighton were now pushing hard, with the crowd well behind them, going into 6 minutes of added time. Propper caught Davies, Digne's free-kick too easily repelled. Sigurdsson tried to get the ball past Ryan from a narrow-angle.

But Everton then threw the game away as seemingly only they can, Lucas Digne sliding in to convert a low cross into his own net like a seasoned striker in the 5th minute of added time and Silva's incredible record remained intact.

Scorers: Gross (17') ; Webster (og), Calvert-Lewin (74')

Brighton & Hove Albion: Ryan, Montoya (66' Trossard), Webster, Dunk, Burn, Gross (65' Schelotto), Propper [Y:90+3'], Stephens [Y:34'], Alzate, Connolly, Maupay.
Subs: Bissouma, Balogun, Murray, March, Button.

Everton: Pickford, Sidibe, Keane, Holgate, Digne, Gomes, Davies, Walcott (72' Delph), Iwobi (72' Calvert-Lewin), Bernard (30' Sigurdsson), Richarlison.
Subs: Lössl, Coleman, Schneiderlin, Kean .

Referee: Andy Madley

Reader Comments (485)

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Mike Corcoran
1 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:02:29
Just Holgate in for Mina, now let’s see what happens...
Steve Ferns
2 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:03:40
Yep, he’s kept the same team, which everyone asked for, but many doubted (Holgate aside, that is).
Martin Nicholls
3 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:05:29
Holgate in for Mina but otherwise an unchanged team. Can't blame Silva if this goes belly up – it's what most of us have been calling for all week. COYB
Danny Broderick
4 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:05:42
Our best lineup in the circumstances. I feel a bit sorry for Calvert-Lewin though. He’s had Schneiderlin and Coleman slowing down our attacks all season, and then, just as he starts scoring, he is out on the bench! It worked last week though, so fingers crossed...
Paul Tran
5 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:05:50
Afternoon all. Like the team, well done Marco for keeping an unchanged team, bar Mina's injury.
John Cook
7 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:06:02
Who is on the bench? Wander if any of the kids made it... Gibson, Feeney etc.
Tony Hill
9 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:08:26
Coleman's on the bench, Joe.
Frank McGregor
12 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:11:38
As Tony says, Coleman is on the bench according to BBC game sheet.
Steve Ferns
13 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:13:33
Coleman is the only defender on the bench. None of the kids are there.

Sigurdsson, Schniederlin, Delph, Calvert-Lewin, Coleman, Kean and Lössl

Tony Everan
15 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:21:17
A good opportunity for Mason to show that he is ready to step in to the first team permanently should there be any dip of form from the incumbents. He has a touch of class about him but he needs to take these opportunities to prove himself.

Frank Crewe
16 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:26:08
If we win today and a few other results go our way by Monday we could be in the top 7.
Ciarán McGlone
17 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:27:44
Bill Gienapp
18 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:39:02
Well done, Silva. Now let’s go beat these guys!
Colin Metcalfe
19 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:46:19
Disappointed Mina is out however if we play on the front foot like last week we won;t have to much to worry too much defensively, we can win this. 3-1 to the blues !
Christy Ring
20 Posted 26/10/2019 at 14:57:10
Good to see the same team, apart from Mina, hope they can push on after last week's performance, and justify there selection. I'm surprised Feeney or Gibson are not on the bench, normally you'd have cover for centreback.
Steve Ferns
21 Posted 26/10/2019 at 15:19:34
Another soft goal. Couldn’t Pickford have saved that?
Steve Ferns
22 Posted 26/10/2019 at 15:20:49
Gerrin Richi lad
Chris Gordon
23 Posted 26/10/2019 at 15:23:09
Usual service is resumed! How much longer are we to be subjected to this dross Silva's team serves up every week??
Tony Abrahams
24 Posted 26/10/2019 at 15:31:44
Let’s see if we can take more from this game after having a gift-horse given to us. Walcott has got to be braver with his chance, but we are playing too close to each other.

Commentator said the thing what he loved about Everton, last week against West Ham, was their intensity, but if you lose at Villa, Bournemouth and Burnley, then there is definitely something wrong with our approach to away games, and having watched the first 28 minutes today, I couldn’t agree anymore.

Bad news for Bernard, I hope it’s nothing to serious.

Paul Armstrong
25 Posted 26/10/2019 at 15:52:56
Anybody got a live link?
Tony Abrahams
26 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:02:30
It’s on bein sports mena11 Paul.
Steve Ferns
27 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:35:27
Gerrin! Nice one Dom
Ernie Baywood
28 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:39:41
First penalty given by VAR this season.

Non contact game.

Johan Elmgren
29 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:46:51
My god this VAR-thing is a real flop.. Penalty for that? And where was VAR when Richy was hauled down in the penalty area when we had a corner?? Reeks of inconsistency..

There are more wrong-decisions with this VAR-technology than without it... The referees in the Premiership are totally crap!

Ernie Baywood
30 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:54:47
I give up
Ian Lloyd
31 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:56:42
Please just go – I knew last week was just papering over the cracks.
Tony Abrahams
32 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:56:51
I will be there on Tuesday night Ernie, but I hope Michael Keane isn’t mate. And maybe Silva, whose subs have made us look like a Sunday league team.
Kase Chow
33 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:57:02
Can’t believe it
Frank Crewe
34 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:57:15
So much for the confidence from last week. Back to the drawing board.
Lennart Hylen
35 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:57:25
How many times do I have to say it. We need a new manager!!!! This is out of this world.The whole team caves in.
Justin Harris
36 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:58:18
When you make the negative subs he has today you deserve nothing else!If he doesn't go now questions need to be asked!!Absolutely gutless!
Danny Baily
37 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:58:22
Time for a change if we want to stay up.
Amit Vithlani
38 Posted 26/10/2019 at 16:59:50
I think thats it for Silva.
Ernie Baywood
39 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:00:11
I could dissect that game. Could go into the substitutions. Could get into individual players.

But at the end of the day we were well on top and winning before a decision that came from absolutely nowhere.

Kase Chow
40 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:01:10
Why can’t we play 2 strikers?

Why have we failed season after season to buy a proven goalscorer?

Why have we got Holgate as our 3rd choice centre back?

Brands. what are you doing????

Phil Sammon
41 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:01:17
Justin 36

His sub got us a goal straight after coming on. I thought moving Davies forward worked okay. One really fucking unlucky penalty has stitched us up today. I don't like Silva but I don't think he deserves too much of a beating for this one.

Phil Sammon
42 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:02:33
Lots of overreactions to follow on here this evening. I’m off to bed.
Ken Kneale
43 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:02:45
We can dispute decisions all we want but this is also down to game management and we have none - surely that TAXI has to be arriving soon if we are to save this season
Tony Hill
44 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:02:45
As one who has supported Silva, he has to go now. He is primarily responsible. I am afraid, though, that the truth lies deeper. We are capable of isolated good performances but we are at root a weak-minded, cowardly side and we are a cowardly club. We have been for years and I no longer expect that to change. The performance today was a disgrace.

Here's the real truth: we're no good. Our new motto : Basic Things Done Badly. Never mind, we'll win a Cup for best basket weaving in the community.

Chris Williams
45 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:03:16
Don’t call it var, call it what it was. The var referee was Lee Mason. Lee Mason gave the penalty. Don’t let these pricks off the hook. The same shite referees are making the same shite decisions.
Tony Hill
46 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:05:12
PS it was a penalty. Keane is incredibly clumsy..
Tom Roberts
47 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:05:14
Can we please get rid of Marco Silva and beg him to take Steve Ferns with him? Just admit it, you are wrong about this joker!!!!!
Ciarán McGlone
48 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:05:37
That was abysmal. The exact opposite of last week. Slow, ponderous and mostly sideways.

Not one single player had a good game.. errors all over the place. The substitutions were also a bit bizarre as well. Sigurdsson had a decent 10 minutes after he came on, during which he ran himself out - and we then reverted to type. Kean should've been on for Bernard. Delph was also a pretty pointless sub.

Winning that game, or even drawing, would've been a fig leaf to Silva's utter incompetence.

Boot him out the door now.

Tony Abrahams
49 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:05:41
Holgate hasn’t played all season, whilst we have had to endure a centre-half who some people seem to think is a confidence player?

The penalty was one of those things (a very poor decision, and hopefully there is going to be transparency with names, because I’m sure whoever gave that today, might decide it’s not a penalty next week, nudge, nudge) but if you have got to play a fragile centre back, then I’m afraid you will always have a very fragile fucking team.

Steve Carse
50 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:06:06
How anyone can be in support of VAR beats me. How ridiculous it is that there is now a set of rules/interpretations for when the ball is in the box and another for identical instances outside.
James Thomas
51 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:06:26


Justin Harris
52 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:06:37
Phil @ 37 I wasnt so much talking about Calvert Lewin but when you replace a wide attacking player with a defensive central midfielder at 1 each I think it says a lot.I agree the penalty changes things but the way we then reacted afterwards isn't acceptable either.
Max Murphy
53 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:07:26
After three, ToffeeWebbers!

"1-2-3 — Next game is a must-win game!!!"

Andrew Lum
54 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:07:27
How useless is the referee? He had to consult the bloody VAR for every decision. Except for Walcott’s shot that looked like it hit Dunk’s arm. He is not fit to referee a football match.
Gary Mortimer
55 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:09:08
The first time this season a penalty is given after on field ref doesn't give one and it's against us.

Finding out that the VAR ref was Lee Fucking Mason does not surprise me, he is too unfit even to be a VAR ref.

That does not excuse the way the team weakly fell apart after the penalty. It all comes from the manager.

Chris Williams
56 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:09:24
Lee Mason gave that penalty
John Cook
57 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:10:23
Regards the penalty,Kean had his head in the air eyes concentrating on the ball how the fuck can it be a pen ? Surely intent has to come into it. Not taking away we were shore.
Gary Willock
58 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:10:25
When Bernard went off he should have moved Richarlison to his best position (left) and brought on Kean/DCL then. He didn’t as he was DESPERATE to get Siggy on.

Taking off Iwobi AND Walcott (the pace that was scaring Brighton into staying back) and bringing on Delph was utter madness.

Once again SHOCKING decisions by an inept manager who needs to go. We are in serious trouble under this clown.

George Cumiskey
59 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:10:45
Silva picked the right team then lost it when he brought on Siggy who done nothing but slow the game down, then compounded his mistake by bringing on Delft who also done nothing.
It must of been a one off last week for Walcott because he was woeful today.
Ernie Baywood
60 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:10:50
Phil Sammon - "his sub got us a goal"

He brought a striker on to play up front, instead of the winger he'd been playing there. Not exactly a genius move.

I still don't know what formation we were playing at the end. 4-2-2-2?

Peter Mills
61 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:11:08
Is there any other club that could lose like that after going 2-1 up late on?
Kieran Kinsella
62 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:12:03
Tony 49,

Regards the pen call and Keane fair enough. However, there is always going to be a mitigating circumstance. You never ever have your best 11, in their best form, with the perfect ref.

The continuing trend with Silva is a shapeless back line and central midfield. Players hiding and not wanting the ball. Only sporadic bursts of obvious "effort." Frequent "rash" mistakes leading to red cards, penalties and goals. Lack of creativity, woeful finishing. I see nothing at all to suggest any hope of a bright future under Silva.

Tony Hill
63 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:12:23
John @57, because he stood right on his heel. It was an obvious pen.
Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:13:44
I thought Digne and Holgate had good games, Davies, and Sidibe weren’t bad, Richarlison and Iwobi, hit and miss, and I thought Gomes was very poor, along with the keeper and Keane.

With the money in football, someone should be doing a lot of research into some of these VAR decisions to make sure that the people on the panel offer consistency for these major decisions, and this is definitely down to more than paranoia.

Christy Ring
65 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:14:16
Gutted 2-1up with 15mins left can’t believe it got more defensive with Delph on and changed formation not good enough
Rudy Chinchilla
66 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:14:33
I think that was a harsh penalty, but it shouldn't disguise the fact that we were bad after Sigurdsson came on. Again he went missing and we looked a different side than when Iwobi was playing the No. 10 role. And Pickford? My word
Simon Smith
67 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:15:27
Supporting Everton really should come with a health warning. Far more hazardous to your health than injecting yourself with Ebola
Ross Edwards
68 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:15:38
Genuinely in shock at what happened there. Absolute disgrace how that ‘penalty' got given and it turned a game that we otherwise would've seen out.

Had the ref just took 30 seconds of his time to see the screen for himself which every other European league or competition instructs them to do, he would not have given it. We would've seen the lead out and, instead, we'd be praising the team and Silva on a very good fightback and win right now.

Brian Harrison
69 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:16:33
Results are everything in any sport, at one point it looked like we were going to win after being behind, so it would have taken the pressure of Marco Silva. But to give away a lead with 15 minutes left against a journeyman team, is just unforgivable. So another must win game at home next week, and I cant see Moshiri keep giving the manager much more time. Again this is against a very average side, so if we cant see out a game against a poor Brighton is there any away games were we can pick up points.
Charles Brewer
70 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:17:20
Ernie, your numbers don't add up. You seem to think we had 10 outfield players. But Sigurdsson was allegedly on the pitch, so there were only 9.
Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:18:11
I didn’t think it was an obvious penalty Tony, ball going away from goal and most likely out of play, with the centreback definitely having both eyes on the ball, and I’m not sure Lee Mason, would give that decision everytime, and against every team, but maybe this time I am just being paranoid.
Tony Hill
72 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:18:40
Tony @64, I thought none of our players had good games. I have now genuinely given up hope of our ever coming good, because we have lacked mental strength for so long now that it has become habitual. I thought this game was a defining one.

We are a bunch of gobshite weaklings at the club from top to bottom. All mouth and no delivery. I will support them till I die but I am resigned to our being forever mediocre.

Carelessness is enough for the penalty and Keane was certainly careless.

Steve Carse
73 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:18:51
Once again our supposedly senior players didn't show when needed - I'm talking Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson,Walcott, and Gomes. And if we're calling Schneiderlin out for his lack of progressive passing then why not the same for Gomes? Today, unless you'd seen the team sheet before kick off you wouldn't have known he was on the pitch.
And on Tuesday let's have a look at the no.2 keeper.
Rob Marsh
74 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:20:40
Don't blame VAR!!!

We collapsed under pressure once more!!!

John Boon
75 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:21:06
I had decided to refrain from postings, mainly because of late, there had been too many back and forth postings that are far too irrelevant to the specific article.I think there are a number of posters who just like to see their own name in print

So to be completely on topic: We are a very poor team that was beaten by another very poor team who have spent most of their history in the third level of English football. We don't have a good manager. We do have the most loyal, long suffering fans who travelled over three hundred miles to be served up ninety six minutes of rubbish.

Rob Dolby
76 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:21:08
Was it a clear and obvious Pen.
Lee mason the Var official thought so.

I look forward to both teams in any future matches having 10 pens each for the slightest contact in the box.

Aside from Var and Lee Mason being the star of the show I thought Pickford was poor for the opening goal and Gomes was very quiet.

John Cook
77 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:21:17
Tony, don't agree lad, in my opinion you have to there has to be intention to deny the striker,I know he stood on his foot but not as an attempt to play the ball! To me thats why it's not a pen.Its no excuse that we fell apart after the decision.
David Connor
78 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:21:37
Get rid of this joke of a manager tonight, for fuck's sake. Him and his piss-poor coaching staff need to go before it's too late.

What an absolute abysmal record this fella has. Unforgivable. We are a fucking joke of a club. Bite the bullet, Mr Moshiri, and put him and us out of our misery.

£300 MILLION + spent in 3 seasons and we are much worse than when Moyes run us on a shoestring budget. Unreal!!!

Steve Ferns
79 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:22:24
We played well up to 2-2. It was never a pen. VAR is a disgrace. Even if it goes for you it’s ruined the spectator experience inside the ground. Lee Mason is a complete idiot if he thinks that’s a foul.

Keane and Pickford made two of the big mistakes today and they aren’t players this regime signed and I doubt they’d even consider signing them if they had the choice. They’re on stupid wages and so here to stay.

Sidibe was nowhere for the last goal and shows why we’ve hesitated on playing him. He’s always had a question mark over his defensive ability.

After VAR, Silva had used all his subs, whats he meant to do to stop these overpaid players from letting there heads drop? He can’t call a time out and give them a pep talk.

Pat Kelly
80 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:22:42
Something to be thankful for, this is another nail in Silva's coffin.
Derek Knox
81 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:22:43
We just don't seem to have a winning mentality throughout the team, and in my book a lot of that comes from the Manager, he should be able to prepare them mentally, as well as physically, and he just hasn't got it.
Rob Marsh
82 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:22:49
Rob Dolby # 76

Definitely a pen under the rules, no point in blaming VAR.

George Cumiskey
83 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:24:33
Let's not blame the ref boys, let's be honest and blame a poor team and an even poorer manager.
Ciarán McGlone
84 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:24:41
Obvious penalty my arse!
Ken Kneale
85 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:24:58
The team reflect the manager - gutless, guileless and characterless - this clown was a poor appointment at a high cost and the cost will be much higher if we do not get rid now - this is the easiest set of opening fixtures in a long time against supposedly poorer teams in the main and we are sinking fast - if we really get dragged into a battle this lot will fold as will the manager - what a complete indictment of people at all levels of this club - it really is a disgrace that we have waited thirty years and still see this utter crap being served up.
Steve Carse
86 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:25:00
Tony (63), looked more like he caught his toes not his heel. And how that would make a player leap up with his arms in the air I'm not sure. Only Everton would be the first team to be the victims of a VAR reversed penalty call.
If we're going to make all contact a foul - something Platini when in FIFA was always asking for - then let's do so -- and watch the game die.
John Keating
87 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:27:43
I must admit I thought Silva did exactly the right thing with the starting 11, same as last week with Holgate replacing the injured Mina.

Sigi needed dropping based on his performances this season so I was really surprised he came on in place of Bernard. I really thought DCL or Kean would come on to keep the attacking intent, certainly not Sigi.

I was made up Holgate and DCL combined for the goal, two lads who have taken more than their fair share of unnecessary stick.

I have been anti VAR since it was talked about and that decision today was, in my opinion, a disgrace. Earlier Richie was getting dragged everywhere in the box and nothing given. Keane is looking at the ball and there was no intent whatsoever. Every contact is not a free kick or penalty if it is football as we know it is finished.

Really surprised we couldn't see that game out as to be honest Brighton weren't up to much attacking wise.
Questions need to be asked how that bloody winger got so much room to even cross that ball.

Without doubt even after only 10 games we are in a bit of a state and a big rut. Something needs changing very very soon

Tony Hill
88 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:27:46
Problem is Steve, @86, Keane got too tight and wasn't looking where his feet were. That's enough for the pen I'm afraid, regardless of the other player's reaction.

Plus, we're crap and sealed our own fate.

Chris Williams
89 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:28:16
Goalkeeper error, controversial var penalty, own goal. All in one game. Bernard off injured, possibly badly. The conditions were poor but the same for everyone.

Some bad luck for me, but listening to the match on Everton radio it sounded like they were poor first half and some players like Walcott reverted to type, and fluffed his lines a couple of times in front of goal, with his lack of aggression. I didn’t understand the first substitution or bringing Delph on in a game we threw away again. But the energy, pace and intent were clearly missing having made a fleeting appearance against WHU.

Having said that it sounded like Everton were the better team second half even allowing for the bias of the commentators. But that is not to accept that the performance and result were in any way satisfactory, and yet another winnable game lost.

The substitutions were dubious

John Cook
90 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:28:46
Steve Case (86) spot on,my point exactly.
Jay Wood

91 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:29:01
Oh. Dear.

Other commitments this morning prevented me from watching much of the first half, so can't really comment on it. Ironically, each time I stole a glimpse it was to see Brighton's and Everton's opening goals.

Didn't see the foul that gave Brighton the free kick they scored from, but it sounds like another poor play around our penalty by Gomes which has led to a goal. Not the first time he has done it in a Blue shirt. I have to say the wall again looked poorly formed and as hard struck as the shot was, you would hope for better from your keeper in defending it.

Nice corner and header for our equaliser. Pity it won't be credited to Richarlison.

I was able to watch the whole second half and we were good value for our lead I thought from Holgate's excellent run and through ball, matched by DCL's own excellent run in behind the defence and finish. More evidence that if you give Dominic quality ball, he CAN finish.

We were on for the ideal result I had hoped for earlier in the week: lose the first goal, but come back to win to get a couple of monkies off our backs - the stat of never winning a PL game under Silva having conceded the first goal and winning on the road. We looked well in control.

But this is Everton. The pen decision initially looked like a wasted VAR referral, but the executioner's gong sounded louder with each replay.

And you have to say, for the last 22 minutes (including injury time) after we scored, Brighton was the better side. Everton in particular struggled to handle the sub Trossard who crossed for Digne's own goal winner for the Seagulls.

Last week's win over WHU was welcome and much-needed. Today was yet another reminder that we are a long way off that proverbial corner, never mind turning it.

Pressure once again back on the team and the manager to get a result on Tuesday over bottom-placed and winless Watford to book our passage to the last 8 of the LC.

It's an unforgiving world, football management.

George Cumiskey
92 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:29:31
Fancy Steve Ferns coming on and defending Silva, what a surprise. Lol
Johan Elmgren
93 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:29:40
Rob #74, VAR turned the game, so it was a major factor. I've seen huge VAR-mistakes all season with all teams involved, decisions mostly favouring the 'big teams' (Manchester Citys 2-0 goal today, fresh in mind). To me, VAR is a BIG, BIG flop!

That said we were sloppy today, Walcott for instance, getting into great positions, then doing absolutely nothing with it. Utterly poor.

One thing I can't really understand, if Marco Silva is obsessed with details (which seems to be the opinion among the players), howcome we are so sloppy in passing and with decisionmaking in the final third?? That would, to me, be the first thing a manager obsessed with details should eradicate.

I've stood by Silva, and I think we played pretty good football during his time, but I don't think he is the man to erase the flaws I mention above. Decisionmaking, movement and passing in the final third is absolutely essential to scoring goals.. we totally lack that...

Tony Hill
94 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:29:42
Have a look at the rules, Ciaran @84.
Ciarán McGlone
95 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:30:23
It has to be a clear and obvious mistake by the ref before VAR steps in and overrules the ref.

I don't know how anyone can say that was the case here.

Paul Kelly
96 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:30:31
As soon as Lee Masons name was announced as the VAR ref, that pen decision was going only one way and how did the Hove player manage to jump with both feet if he had been stamped on? Should of gotten an Oscar for that one.

Richarlison should of headed that free-kick away instead of shitting out the puff. Pickford should of saved it.

Thought Holgate held his own.

Silva, fuck off, just fuck off.

Paul Tran
97 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:30:43
A stuttering, dull, uninspiring performance where we bravely came from behind. The penalty was soft, unlucky, but the correct decision by the rules. We then folded like a deck chair.

Something's not right mentally with this team.

As someone once said, it's deja vu all over again!

Kieran Kinsella
98 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:30:48
Steve 79

OK he didn't sign Keane and Pickford. He did though sign Lossl to "challenge Pickford." Given Pickford's poor form, Lossl must be terrible if he can't get a game.

As for the "time out" remark. Yeah he can't bring on extra subs. But he does work with the players every day. Part of his remit is to instill confidence and motivate the players. If you focus on the other aspect of his role, e.g. tactics, it's not as if we saw some amazing performance pre VAR. The middle field was non existent. No one was in space, seeking the ball, no one was tackling. It was poor but we were still in the game because Brighton were poor also.

Ken Kneale
99 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:32:48
Steve Fearns - Silva's work during the week is meant to prevent heads dropping if that is your reasoning for this latest abject failure - imagine the dressing room if this was Alex Ferguson and imagine the dressing room our players faced - he simply is not up to the job Steve and you need to accept it.
David Pearl
100 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:33:22
Hmm well losing again away from home and also from a winning position. We seemed to change shape second half. Looked like a 442 and then a 433 and then every man for himself for the last ten minutes. Awful from Silva, l'm sorry but we can't tread water any longer. He should of gone weeks ago. Surely if we don't and can't put a run together then what's the point? We have a good squad, let someone come in and settle things down. All the players were also guilty today of sloppy play, losing the ball in the wrong areas, caught out of position. Keane was maybe unlucky for the penalty. Once again we look the better side but cant get the points. Unbelievable and so obvious.

As Derek says, we don't have that winning mentality.

Kase Chow
101 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:33:38
Why can’t we play 2 strikers?

Why have we failed season after season to buy a proven goalscorer?

Why have we got Holgate as our 3rd choice centre back?

Brands. what are you doing????

When will Pickford be dropped? He’s a proper liability

Dave Williams
102 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:34:18
I didn’t see the game but followed the live forum which usually gives a very extreme view, exaggerating every poor aspect of our play so I can’t really comment on the performance.
I can however say how disappointing this was after signs of improvement last week and there is no way we should be losing after being 2-1 up with a short time to go.
Regardless of VAR we should be able to dig in and survive- the rugby team sure as hell showed how blood and guts can secure a win!
Our record of losses against poor teams is a disgrace as is our league position and our club motto is a very bad joke at the moment. Silva is not going to make us into a good team and should go. Ok he picked the right team but bringing Siggy on was detrimental and our fighting spirit is ridiculously fragile. How long is this going to continue?
George Cumiskey
103 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:34:26
Paul Kelly don't beat about the bush, just say what you mean. Ha ha.
Tony Abrahams
104 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:36:55
Agree Sidibe was nowhere for their winner Steve, but that’s why I’ve got such a downer on Keane, because that lack of defensive awareness, and even less of an attempt to help out his team, was as bad as I’ve ever seen, but after listening to and agreeing with John@75, I’m going to get off this site for now. (Two poor teams John, but I honestly believe we have got the players to be a good team)

Holgate hasn’t played all season, so I can’t believe people didn’t think he did okay, but maybe I’m just comparing him to his defensive partner, and he only deserved a 4/10.

Paul Tran
105 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:38:54
No, no Ken, old men like us have it all wrong. The coach's job is to get the tactical & technical details right. If he can't motivate the players, that's just tough.

I hope he has an app/programme that measures players' motivation and mental strength before we sign anyone, because he isn't going to improve it, is he?

Steve Carse
106 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:41:05
I'm not denying your interpretation of the rules Tony (88) but pre-VAR the ref would, whether he'd seen it properly or not, likely have judged that, whatever the rules, it in no way impeded the attacker (who by the way won the decision through overacting - something I seem to recall we lost a player for 3 games for for doing similar) and so wouldn't give it. In other words he used common sense. That's my issue with VAR here. There are lots of other VAR issues too of course. I just detest it.

No contesting your final sentence though Tony.

Pat Kelly
107 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:41:45
Silva has to go. It's clear and obvious.
Brian Hennessy
108 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:43:02
Silva took exactly 30 minutes to prove that he learned nothing from last week's game and that more often than not he makes the wrong call.

Bringing on Sigurdsson for the injured Bernard the wrong call. Richarlison should have been pushed out wide and either on DCL or Kean should have been up front.

We finished the game with Gomes, Davies and Delph all in the middle (along with the invisible man Sigurdsson) and Brighton got more and more space out wide as the game went on and we lost our shape.

Steve Ferns
109 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:43:45
Why do I have to accept it Ken? I respectfully disagree.

How’s Silva meant to stop their heads dropping? He had them all smiles during the week, as seen by all the content released.

We have a mental well-being team, headed by Willie Donachie’s son. Are the players using this enough or is the team not up to the job? It seemed a strange appointment to me.

Simon Smith
110 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:44:47
This rot that has set in needs sorting quickly. The stat about us never winning from a losing position sums us up brilliantly. No backbone, no character, no confidence and no pride!
Bad things happen when the chips are down. Look at how the RS seem to always get the rub of the green. I think it’s more than coincidental. They go out believing they will win and do so, we don’t have that belief at all.
It’s the mentality that needs to change. I can’t see that happening under silva. I’d love him to turn it round, but I can’t see it. Another thoroughly depressing weekend. If only the players cared 10% of what we care!
Get Eddie jones as manager to toughen them up!! 🏉
Lee Brownlie
111 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:44:54
Moving Iwobi – from where he was doing a good job – to the left, just to accommodate Sigurdsson, was clearly a really bad move!!

Still, we should have won, or at least got a point... VAR is supposed to be used to make correct decisions, not simply to overturn already-made decisions!!!

Plus, the number of times Everton players were upended, but the referee waved 'play on', had become more than a fuckin joke by the end!!!

Still, we should have won... or, certainly, not have lost!! Why is supporting Everton, being a Toffee, so painful, so often???

Trevor Peers
112 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:45:25
Silva's brave new world of 4-3-3 looked sadly out of touch as the usual fault line of midfield incompetence took hold of this match straight from the kick off. Brighton where pouring through the middle and it was no surprise when they took the lead. We showed a bit of fight in the second half, then collapsed without a fight when the penalty went in.
A change of manager is needed but I doubt Moshiri has it mind just yet. We may need to go bottom three again, if we don't Silva will still be here next season peddling this garbage.

John Cook
113 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:45:53
We scored 2 goals away today which is good for this Everton side.The problems were in defence.,Pickford's a clown I was never in favour of him signing in the first place,he had a nightmare today punching the ball when he should have caught,he needs replacing.The winning goal again was avoidable Taussard had too much space on the wing and Sidibe allowed him to cross, he had a good game apart from that.The ball come across the 6 yard box and the goalkeeper should be cutting that out but as normal Pickford can't command this area,the number of goals down to him is unbelievable putting extra panic on an already Shakey defence.
John Keating
114 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:46:49
How many penalties have been given by VAR in games this season ??

Go on have a guess

Steve Ferns
115 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:47:27
One John. Let’s file it with Niasse getting done by video too.
Lennart Hylen
116 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:51:46
Look at Silva´s winning %. End of discussion.
Darren Hind
117 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:52:03
"Why have we got Holgate as our 3rd choice centre back ?"

That's a good question... He should be first.

I rather play someone out of the crowd than Keane at the moment. What is Silva seeing ?

Tony Hill
118 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:54:39
Steve, @109, we keep losing and we do so in a hopeless, gutless way. I know why you backed Silva and I share your vision of a side playing great, attacking football. But he is the one responsible; he's the manager.

That side today, after all the hope of last week, was like a jellyfish again. I think the players are massively to blame but it's now clear to me that Silva can't do it. Like others before him, he isn't strong enough to pull us up by our bootstraps.

We need a titan, and we're not going to find one. So that's why I'm resigned to mediocrity. Perhaps, after all, we might as well keep Silva. He's no better and no worse than other candidates and we can bob along in 10th with him.

I've hoped against hope for too long. Time for a bit of peace.

Even so, I think the players should be ashamed of themselves. Though they won't be.

Raymond Fox
119 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:56:30
Is there a more frustrating team to support.

Leading 2-1 with 16 mins to go, not a great performance but still better than Brighton.
Then suprise, suprise VAR intervenes for the first time in any match this season. Penalty, I don't care if it was a penalty or not, theres been obvious missed calls before today that VAR have not been interested/ intervened in.

Oh I forgot, its only against Everton lets give it, never mind eh.

Matt Muzi
120 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:56:50
The penalty decision was the turning point, that & Silva's decision to take two wingers off & replace them with a striker & a central midfielder!
I am very concerned with the current standard of football we're playing.
Agree with a lot of comments on here about Pickford, he doesn't instill any confidence IMO
Brian Wilkinson
121 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:57:18
We need an Adrian Heath moment next Tuesday, to somehow turn this season around.

Either that or Mosi Kean coming on the pitch Amocachi style, while Walcott has his calf massaged just off pitch side.

Tuesday for me is the game a Silva cannot lose, however my theory is this and probs way off the mark, Benetiz is over in China, there season ends in December.

Have a feeling if things stay the same, Silva will be gone in December.

Brent Stephens
122 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:57:26
When a full back goes forward, there should automatically be cover for his position. Whether Sidibe should have started to get back sooner is debatable, but there still should have been cover for him, regardless.
Rob Dolby
123 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:59:09
Rob 84 - Rules are rules.
I standby my comment of looking forward to seeing 20 pens a game. Whilst there is contact in the box there is a pen. Bring it on. They will have adverts in-between Var decisions soon just to keep the gravy train rolling.

Oh the joys of Var, did anyone ever think it could be implemented in this way.

Probably every team in the prem has been on the wrong end of a var decision this season. Is it making the game better? Does it help the ref? Does it encourage fair play? Does it overturn clear and obvious errors?

Not sure it is working on any level besides lining the refs pockets. One ref who has probably never kicked a ball in anger refereeing is bad enough, times that by 4 and this is what you have. Organised Kaos.

Ken Kneale
124 Posted 26/10/2019 at 17:59:34
Paul T - thanks for that mate - it is all clear now and explains why by and large, my football weekends are so thoroughly miserable these days - I have just been re-reading the excellent Harry Catterick book - oh for the days of discipline, glorious football and players of character - now where are my tablets!!
Jason Lloyd
125 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:01:58
I think Pickford needs a rest out of the side, he causes players to panic more because of his handling and command of the box, especially on crosses on set pieces he doesn't dominate enough.

He should have stopped their first goal - this is England's number 1.

VAR penalty was unfortunate but its how we reacted after Brighton's subs that was most telling.

Silva didn't see the tactical change Potter made to go wide and he tried to pack the middle.

For their winning goal you can't really do anything about that more bad luck.

Watford is a massive game now

Christy Ring
126 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:03:56
Looking at the bigger picture, we have supposed to have played nearly all the lesser teams, with little success, so it’s very worrying. Agree with a lot of the comments replacing Bernard with Sigurdsson didn’t make sense a complete change of shape
Alan J Thompson
127 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:04:11
There were two teams out there one who looked coached and moved into triangles, squares etc so that they had someone to pass to and another who looked almost lost until a substitution for an injury made them look completely lost. How on earth did Silva think that Sigurdsson could come any where near fitting in to a pattern that required Bernard's contribution! Get rid of this joke of a coach and the sooner the better.

Yes, you could argue that the VAR penalty was an injustice and that the Brighton player was in no way impeded and most certainly wasn't touched where he was holding as though he would never play again and it was in no way as bad as many that were let go or not referred to VAR.

All that aside, can Silva explain after all the substitutions why he had Davies playing so far forward while his substitute Delph adopted Davies role, it made no sense whatsoever!

Supercoach - BOLLOCKS!

Lennart Hylen
128 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:04:34
He always looks so sad, Marco Silva. How on earth can a manager like that fire up his forces on the pitch????
I want a new manager now. One with a proven record. The only one that comes to mind is José M. I do not like his attitude
but he has winning personality.
George McKane
129 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:05:04
Re: Niasse and VAR - pathetic moaning - Everton are seen as pushovers by authorities - have been for years - maybe if The Club stood up for itself now and then Refs and EPL would think more - maybe they know that EFC are a pushover with no bottle - and maybe other teams and players know that as well - we are soulless and mentally lacking - it’s only our fans that have any heart.

I listened to the game in Naples and will return in time for Watford - wonder how many of our players are as keen on EFC games as our wonderful fans.

I am dismayed with Everton - pushovers - easy meat for everyone - find some guts Everton and stand up for yourselves and us.

Dave Williams
130 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:09:56
Tony Hill- ref your comment that you’d possibly stick with Silva bobbing along in tenth- if only!!
I wouldn’t be so concerned if we were tenth!!
Paul A Smith
131 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:10:17
More evidence today that the final 3rd is a major weak point for us and we have no ruthless streak at either end.

Hes picked the team everyone wanted bar the change he had to make and we have dominated for 75 minutes and again the final ball let us down too often as it almost did v West Ham.

Also a lot more Evidence our goalkeeper is a pure clown. Sick of saying it.

Kim Vivian
132 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:10:59
Simon - never mind stats about never winning from a losing position (which are numbingly painful to use an oxymoron) - soon we'll be heading up the stats for never winning from a winning position.

I seriously hope a search is going on, and going well, for a good potential replacement to MS. Despite the assurances of some, I am seeing no green shoots. I mean even big Sam had us playing some good football, so the occasional glimpses don't do it for me. We need consistency, and consistency of the right kind.

Rob Marsh
133 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:13:54
Lennart # 128

Do you think Moshiri would want to find another £400m to pay for the players the "Special One" would want?

Kieran Kinsella
134 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:16:49
I believe you make your own luck. OK VAR call was contentious but over the last 18 months we have had many more unforced errors and acts of stupidity than "bad luck" calls.
Lennart Hylen
135 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:17:04
Rob # 133.

I am sorry to say that otherwise I cannot see anything other than relegation. That would cost more than 400.

Tony Hill
136 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:21:05
Yeah, I agree Dave @130. We're in the shit. I would change the manager, on balance, because we can't keep turning in performances like that or we will be relegated. If it means that we get a boring manager who keeps us up and is more game-savvy, so be it.

To be honest, mate, after 60 odd years of supporting us, I've run out of reasons as to why we should be any better than we are, and better than we have been for a very long time. I'm deadly serious when I say that we should recognise that we are just not any good. If we do recognise that, any scraps of success (good cup runs and so on) can be celebrated in context. For our sanity, I think we should abandon any hope of troubling the truly successful clubs who are infinitely braver and better organIsed than us.

It would help in our adjustment to reality if we were not served sentimentality and lies, routinely, by the club.

Frank Crewe
137 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:21:15
What can be said that hasn't been said after a 100's of disappointing matches already? Once again we have blown a chance to move up the table. Our "current" manager, just like the three that preceded him is failing to instil any confidence or consistency into a decent squad of players. He has a young £36 million quid forward warming the bench. apparently not good enough to get into the side. Our speedy wide man Bernard gets injured so he throws on Sigurdsson instead of said forward who as usual goes into his invisible man act. Apparently Sigurdsson is only good for five minute cameo roles these days. So once again the manager is surviving from game to game. Playing Russian Roulette with his job until the gun finally goes off. Will the bullet have Watford's or Spurs name on it? Who knows. More importantly who cares? It seems to be an endless nightmare. Like Trump or Brexit. It makes no sense but we can't leave it alone.
Alan McGuffog
138 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:22:10
Can only speak for myself but with every passing season and every passing week, enduring such mediocrity, I find myself caring less and less about this club.
A spell in the Championship ? Would it really matter. We have become a one club city to all intents. It will never end.
Fran Mitchell
139 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:25:31
I'm pretty chuffed my new job means I will always miss Saturday. No more miserable afternoons wasted watching this crap time and again.

What defines Everton under Silva? Last weeks win against West Ham (who we have always beat, for a season long as I can remember). Or another loss to a bottom half team like Brighton today.

Last weeks performance was an exception to the rule. Today was the rule.

Can only lead to one conclusion.

Just glad I didn't have to watch it.

Paul A Smith
140 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:29:22
Silva needs a club that regularly breaks the wage bill for him.
Nobody could play 443 of high press with this squad. The quality isn't there and never was.

Moshiri knew what he wanted and he went for Silva who made it clear to us all that 443 was his favoured formation and he liked high press.

Gana was great for it and unfortunatley there isn't a fraction of a Gana in the side.
Davies may get there eventually but he will leave spaces, lose the ball and drift off at times until hes at Gana level.

Moshiri had to make sure that a manager in the style he wanted, had qenuine quality at his disposal.
He hasn't.

So if what happens on the pitch is Silvas fault always, what happens at the club is Moshiri's fault and there have been major faults since his arrival.

Keane has been ropey since his 1st game and the man behind him is a constant clown.

With not much real quality ahead of those 2 I couldn't believe people thought I was the mad one for suggesting 8th this season was a good finish.

Simon Smith
141 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:31:30
Alan - I assure you, you’re not alone with that thought. I used to completely shut myself off from football when Everton lost, not wanting to hear the negativity against our club. But I’ve come to accept it now. We are awful. It’s hard to be proud of something that shows no pride in itself.
Ken Kneale
142 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:31:39
Tony 136 - I feel your pain - especially the sugar coated rubbish from the Club - it has gone on for too long. Where does the ridiculous comments attributed to Digne earlier in the week and called out rightly so by most of us on TW fit now - my dog could get a better tune out of this lot - at least he would bit some ankles
Peter Neilson
143 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:32:24
Was Gylfi still on the pitch at the end? Maybe he was writing his piece for release on Monday “we nearly won, I love it here and I’ve bought a new dog”. Hopefully Unsworth gets the call even if it’s just to play instead of Keane.
Brian Hennessy
144 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:32:31
Silva taking about "moments" again in the after match interviews.

The only moment I am interested in now, is the moment when this clown gets the sack before he does any more damage

Raymond Fox
145 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:33:00
I think Frank # 137, sums us up very well, and like Alan # 138 I also find myself caring less!
We have a second tier coach along with second tier players, good but not good enough to get us where we want to be.
Paul A Smith
146 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:33:17
The fat Spanish waiter arriving is the day Everton kill the little passion I have left for them.
It would make me sick to see the man who called us a "small club" to please kopites sat in our dugout.

Please no.

Dave Williams
147 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:33:29
Tony- agreed! Sad to say we are pretty poor and have not been a “ big” club for thirty years now and should stop kidding ourselves. The likes of Leeds, Villa etc were not too big to go down and one of these days it will happen to us unless we see reality and get our fingers out to sort this club out.
We are 16th for God’s sake- 16th!!!!! How on earth can guys sit there and say Silva is the man?? We need to take action while there is plenty of time for a new manager to get a grip of the players and for the players to find some balls.
Tony Hill
148 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:33:44
Quite right, Alan, @138, exactly how I feel and I suspect how a great many feel, though I'd rather avoid the Championship. But, as you say, who cares? What a bunch of pitiful losers we have in the team and in the Boardroom; same as it ever was.

Soft as shite.

Daniel A Johnson
149 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:35:43
He quite Simply has to go and go quickly.

His whole premiership managerial record (the one that counts) is littered with long losing streaks and he regularly swings from one crisis to another. He cant gather any form of consistency in his results. He's always digging himself out of a hole for one reason or another.

ZERO POINTS against premiership heavyweights: Bournemouth, Burnley, Aston Villa, Sheff Utd and now Brighton is a disgrace.

The players like him but his style of play and utilisation of the squad doesn't get the most out of them in anyway. We lack fight, heart and organisation all things the coach has to instill in the squad.

His Everton record has now become indefensible. We face a season that has quickly imploded and a long fight against relegation this season awaits us.

Its amazing how the right man in charge can quickly turn around a teams fortunes, look at Lampard and Rodgers. Yet the wrong choice can send a team plummeting look at Solskjaer and Silva.

Silva get out of EFC now

David Thomas
150 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:35:45
Steve Ferns,

How bad does it have to get for you to question Silvas position. Is it only if we get relegated that you think we need to make change.

Ian Riley
151 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:37:00
A lead twice against an average Brighton team and still lose.

I have no expectations of Everton and becoming bored of average. The thing is with championship football is that it is very competitive. We are not. What makes anyone think we would get promotion back to the premiership? My aim would be to not get relagated again.

Pay Silva off and get a manager to keep us in this league. Get relagated and we are done!!!

Rob Marsh
152 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:37:18
Tony # 136

Next 3 games will be very interesting in terms of Silva's destiny, having said that all we can do at this stage is install Rhino as caretaker (or give Big Sam his job back).

This season is dead in the water and that's probably why they haven't sacked Silva, they might as well give him an extended run to see if he can turn it around.

The number of manager's coming and going is becoming embarrassing and Moshiri is to blame for Koeman and Silva.

Moshiri needs to step away and let others make some importand choices, Brands being one of the others does not fill me with confidence at this point, but he's all we have.

Please don't shoot me down in flames, but BK got it right with Moyes and Martinez who at the time was in the right direction.

It's sad isn't it, these are our version of the people who will put in place our "braver and more organised" club.

Colin Glassar
153 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:39:11
I stopped watching/following Everton a few weeks ago and it has done wonders for my health. After a lifetime of following the Blues I decided I needed to take a break.

This is the most expensive squad we’ve ever had and they are utter shite! The manager is shite. The players are shite. The owners are shite and the club, currently, is shite. Our only saving grace is our loyal fans.

I’d ship the whole fucking lot of them out and dump them in the middle of the Mersey. That way they might show some survival instincts.

I’ve always been an optimist when it comes to Everton but right now I feel there’s something rotten to the core. Something bad is going on behind the scenes. Like most, I was hopeful Moshiri would restore us to former glories but it looks like he might be the final nail in the coffin. I hope I’m wrong.

Martin Nicholls
154 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:39:15
Steve F#109 - whilst I do not share your enthusiasm for Silva, I do admire you for backing your man. That said, if I could sack one of him or Willie Donachie's son, it'd be him! I take it you'd disagree with me?
Daniel A Johnson
155 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:43:47
Steve Ferns are you an Everton fan or a Marco Silva Fan?

Your fifty, 300 word posts defending him every thread are now downright bizarre.

Ben Attwood
156 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:45:43
The officials and VAR are a joke. Last week Mina had a perfectly good goal ruled out and there was no VAR check. Today, Richarlison was man-handled in the first half and there was no VAR check.

On the pen, the Brighton players were not really appealing and then the ref and VAR intervened. I am not aware of a similar decision being made before today. I thought VAR was to correct a clear and obvious mistake. My arse! Joke.

We seem to be the guinea pig for these decisions. Last year on the opening day Jags was red carded for a supposed dangerous tackle. But by the new year similar tackles were only yellows.

As many have said, the performance was terrible which has been the constant all season and large parts of last. Brighton were there for the taking. Very slow tippy tappy football in the final third. When a player does break the defensive line they always turn back. Compare that to Brighton's winning goal where the player drove to the by line and Digne had no where to go. Murray would have scored any way. Perhaps if we played 2 up this may change??

We surrendered the impetus after going 2-1 up. This is common under Silva. Remember Anfield and Newcastle last year to name 2 examples. Crap substitutions today again. How Kean is not getting a game is beyond me.

As we all agree Silva will go. Just a question of when. The sooner the better for me as 1 good performance in 10 is not good enough. 40 points is looking a long way off.

Hopefully the new manager is what Brands is working on as he is very quiet at the moment.

Jerome Shields
157 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:45:43
Steve #109

Is Willie Donahie's son the Sport Phycologist, that Big Sam talked about appointing. I thought he was having a laugh.

Thought Jays #91 analysis of the second half was accurate and insightful. I am not surprised given Evertons inconsistent motivational levels the intensity of the West Ham game wasn't evident from the start. Brighton where not as open as West Ham and did the late surge that you could put the kettle on, regarding Evertons resilence.

Kean a confidence p!ayer is a weakness in Evertons defence, even in the West Ham game he got caught out of position. Fony! wasn't good enough. ,

As for Pickford he is now a mistake a game, this week he didn't get away with it. Not good at organising a wall. I agree that Sigurdsson wasn't a appropriate substitution.

A pattern of one win and one loss is second half of the table stuff. It takes two results and a loss to get midtable.

The project it well and truly stalled

Ken Kneale
158 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:47:02
Steve Fearns - this guy is a serial loser - just accept he is not fit to manage our club and move on - we are all drowning here and you are suggesting the water is quite nice for a swim
Mark Guglielmo
159 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:47:32
1. Davies was the opposite of last week, and his turnover led to Gomes – also the opposite of last week – committing an awful foul in a dangerous area, which led to barely any semblance of a wall, which led to Pickford…well I don’t know what the fuck he was doing. Out of position, flat-footed, and alligator-armed. Should never have been a goal.

But hey, we remained front-foot, albeit sloppily, and managed to enter the half 1-1

2. You can’t predict Bernard getting hurt, but Silva CAN PREVENT subbing the utterly useless Gylfi Sigurdsson on. He had what? 2 touches and then went invisible, and I mean invisible. If anyone who watched this game and didn’t notice the complete 180 in pace, attack, and all that, I suggest a visit to your optometrist. Compounded by the awful sub of Delph. Yay, DCL scored (a nice goal at that), but wtf is Kean doing on the bench?

3. Like it or not, Keane is an oaf and had yet another terrible game. There is no provision for accidental contact, and he stomped on the guy’s ankle. Naturally we won’t get a call to go our way, but there it was. VAR did exactly what it was supposed to do, based on the current rules/guidelines.

4. Capitulation. Zero on-field leadership, zero heart shown in order to roll up their sleeves and fight. The second it went 2-2, everyone got that same sense of dread. Capped off by Sidibe being way the fuck out of position (and honestly I thought he was one of our better players today), Gomes not knowing how to defend, and Digne being left naked trying to stop the cross. Where were Holgate & Keane, other than watching as spectators? Utter crap. Completely spineless. An OG was the perfect way to end this one.

I need a break. Even I'm having a hard time feeling optimistic about anything following this disaster.

Ian Riley
160 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:49:01

The thing with big Sam is Everton are to big for him. Snobbery and reality is two different things. Sam was right before he left we are not a top four team and years behind it. We want to think we are better than want we are. The club has spent without structure of planning. Keeping Sam till the new stadium is built should have been the call. I would take being competitive and mid table.

Please please all don't mention Jose coming. Give the guy some credit. We are average and spent hundreds of millions already. Get Moyes or sam back and quickly. Give us a fighting chance!

Rob Marsh
161 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:51:51
Mark # 159

What are you optimism levels like for Silva's team now that it's been sorted out after the West Ham game and is moving in the right direction?

Mark Guglielmo
162 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:54:15
Ok, pick one:

1. Mid-season managerial replacement, to some schmo who will have a different style, want to use or bring in different players, continuing our trend of mashing together different players from different eras under different coaches, with entirely up-in-the-air result come end of season. This pushes our "plan" another 2 years out, at minimum. Unless one of you knows someone with a magic wand.


2. Stick it out with this mess, most of us lose our hair and develop ulcers, with entirely-up-the-air result come end of season, potentially ending with us being relegated to the Championship. This pushes our "plan" another 2 years out, at minimum.

You must choose.

Paul Kelly
163 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:55:29
Dave @ 150. Was going to ask him the same myself, but you beat me to it! It amazes me that Steve can't see the woods for the trees when it comes to Silva yet comes out with some great tactical analyses, but we all have our favourites.

He's not as bad as someone (who's name escapes me) that defended Moyes like his penis was going to be blended whilst still attached if he didn't (not doddy).

Mark Guglielmo
164 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:55:50
Rob @161, I'll give you the opportunity to re-read what I wrote (and then my 2nd post @162) before taking the piss with me.
Ian Edwards
165 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:57:58
Most of the players should be sold.
They do don't as they are told.
Into a team you can't mold.
The Defending isn't a sight to behold.
At 2-1 the team did fold.
Bring Niasse in from the cold.
Silva isn't bold.
Silva isn't gold
Ray Jacques
166 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:58:27
I will keep it short and simple:

Drop Pickford
Appoint either Benitez or Mancini
Steve Ferns – you are deluded, sorry, pal.

Paul A Smith
167 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:58:58
Alan and Simon are spot on. The club are a joke and the best thing I have heard in ages is Moshiri is Randy Lerner on steroids.
John Malone
168 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:59:14
Is our team really any good or is it the manager’s tactics/instruction’s that is letting us down??

Why don’t we ever play solid when we play away from home and not get beat instead of conceding all the time?

Rob Marsh
169 Posted 26/10/2019 at 18:59:42
Ian # 160

The fans had an extreme emotional allergic reaction to Big Sam and it was an illogical one, he should have had the following season, I suspect we'd be better off now if he had.

I wouldn't want Jose, I think he's tired and has become the "dull one" rather than the "special one".

Here goes, I would snap Benitez up right now if I could regardless of any past banter/rib tickling he might of had with us.

Joe McMahon
170 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:02:17
Ian, those players are on too bigger money as other teams won't squander that kind of money on championship players. Everton paid 25 million for Michael Keane. Our squad and ground are pitiful, and Liverpool top of the league. It's a never ending nightmare supporting this pathetic club.
Filipe Torres
171 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:02:46
I said it before the game that silva didn't look like he had sorted out the way the defensive side of the team operates. Untill he does we are in a roller coaster...
Anthony Murphy
172 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:02:53
Ben, you left out the Niasse pen dive that was punished retrospectively. Has a similar decision by the panel been given since?
Daniel A Johnson
173 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:03:00
A new manager doesn't mean ripping up the blue print, Rodgers and Lampard haven't.
Ben Attwood
174 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:03:45
Most teams use the Allardyce/Moyes method once, survive and then move on appointing a new manager improving their position. The only exception was Sunderland.

We seem to be re-writing the script as we look like we are in need of the Allardyce/Moyes method again. I don't get the support for Silva. His record is crap. His tactics are crap. His substitutions are crap. I know we are all die hards but come on!!

It looks like there will be no immediate decision so Silva use the last few games you have and have a go. 4-3-3. Delph-Gomes-Davies in the middle and 3 fast forwards perhaps Iwobi, Richarlison and Kean.

Jack Convery
175 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:04:07
VAR over rules pen given at Turf Moor - despite player making contact with attacker - whats the difference FFS !!!!!!!!!
Ben Attwood
176 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:07:12
Good point Anthony #172
Danny Broderick
177 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:07:15
That game was turned on its head by a disgraceful VAR call. There wasn’t even a challenge from Keane. How can that ever be a penalty when the ball was sailing out of play for a goal kick? It was a coming together at most. I don’t remember ever seeing a decision as bad as that one, not for a long time anyway.

That said, I’m sick of this Everton team away from home. Even after that disgraceful decision, the absolute minimum we should take home is a draw. I didn’t see the last 10/15 minutes, but I have seen highlights of their winning goal and all the players are out of position, running back desperately. It’s like kids football or a basketball match. It starts at the top. The manager should make sure we are compact and ready to see the game out with a point if need be.

I will continue to support the manager and team, but I am not seeing improvements in terms of our naivety away from home, or the cheap goals we give away. There is ability in this squad, but we are lacking organisation and are a soft touch. This is leading to mistakes being made constantly. We need to get back to basics - the trouble is, this manager doesn’t seem capable of changing our approach. He’ll be gone by Christmas if he can’t (or is unwilling to) change.

Mark Guglielmo
178 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:09:19
Daniel @173, fair shout, but equally fair is that the replacement managers were of the same or at worst similar style to their predecessors. Who would 1) come to Everton mid-season and 2) be able to progress this project or whatever it is with a similar style? Today filled me with as much pessimism and doubt as last week filled me with optimism and hope.

Danny @177. All VAR did was seal the deal. The game turned on its head the moment Gylfi sucked the life out of the building, and Delph blew whatever was left in Brighton's face.

John Keating
179 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:09:33
To be honest I'm not really bothered about the Watford Cup game.
I truly believe we have far more important matters to concentrate on.

The season is already over for us league wise. If we don't get a result against Watford then I think it's time to get a taxi for Silva.
If we happen to beat Watford I think it will only mask the dire situation Silva is getting us in to and I believe that may be even more dangerous for us.

It was bad enough getting beat by an extremely poor team today - Fucking Brighton ! Unbelievable
The crunch for me, the one thing that totally mystified me was the decision by Silva to reduce us to 10 men.

Quite rightly Silva used an excuse last week to rightly drop Sigi. Quite rightly Silva continued doing the right thing and kept Sigi on the bench today.
The Bernard gets injured and Silva has a brainfart. On comes Sigi and down we go to 10 men. If he wasn't good enough to play last week or start this week why bring him on so early and imbalance the team?

I'm no tactical expert like some on here but surely bringing on DCL or Mina should have been the call.
No doubt the experts will tell me where I'm wrong but in my opinion Silvas masterstroke substitution, like so many the past season and a bit, confused the shit out of me.

A taxi should be on standby on Tuesday night.

John McFarlane Snr
180 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:10:28
Hi all, I haven't seen today's game but I listened to Radio Merseyside, it didn't sound like an enthralling encounter, but it does appear to me that the penalty decision was a pivotal moment in the game. Regular readers of this site will no doubt know of my opposition of VAR, irrespective of any decisions that may go our way.

It's my opinion that it's use will ruin the game, particularly by removing the authority of the referee. Supporters of my generation those in their 70s/80, will recall times when "if the referee didn't see it, then it didn't happen'' Regarding the penalty incident, Ronnie Goodlass considered it accidental, I will make up my own mind when I watch it on Match of the Day,

There have been so many changes in the Laws of Football in recent years that have changed the considerably, I listen to ex professional players saying, "It was accidental but it's still a foul" in our day there had to be intent, and we were led to believe that the words of, "In the opinion of the referee" figured prominently. I feel sorry for younger fans, because I can envisage a time when football will be a non contact sport, it's well on the way right now.

Daniel A Johnson
181 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:10:59
Mark Its not up to me to come up with alternatives, but its clear right here right now that Marco Silva is not the man to take EFC forward.
Andy Crooks
182 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:11:31
Poor effort from Silva. Pickford was awful. Never a penalty. Finally, Steve Ferns is not the coach. He admires Silva and gives reasons for this so why the apparent resentment on here for a good Evertonian giving his well argued opinion.
I disagree with Steve, though, I believe that the fragility of this squad stinks of relegation. I believe that Silva should be fired.
Brent Stephens
183 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:12:12
Jack #175 - that to me seemed that the Burnley player caught the Chelsea lad's heel. But no penalty!
Mark Guglielmo
184 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:14:48
Daniel, you're right, it isn't (me either for that matter). As long as you shit on whoever's next when nothing changes. See my post @162 for our choice between eating shit or drinking piss.
Paul Birmingham
185 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:15:44
I was really hoping that we wouldn’t revert to type. But sadly those sleep tablets they take the day before an away game kicked in again, as they’ve been doing the last 25 years, give or take a couple of years.

Brighton had more belief and endeavour and our lack of game management as with all teams we’ve played and will play, effectively won the game for Brighton.

The VAR is spoiling football, but the fact is we didn’t put them to the sword when we should have.

The run of game to Chrimbo is horrendous and I have no doubts that we’ll be in a relegation battle.

Strange subs, but we can’t beat Teams like Brighton, and no desrespect to them, then we have really hit the bottom.

No team has a divine right to stay in this league and this squad must get some game plan and urgency, pdq, as we will be hitting New Year, in the crap house, bar a miracle.

Dreading the Derby, this run of games back to back, we will need Mina back.

Hopefully we will earn some good luck soon, with dodgy descisions, but the team must get down to see the Harley Street shrinks, as this rot, looks terminal.

As Colin has stated and we’ve said for donkies years, supporting Everton warrants a government health warning. The sad reality is now it’s so predictable, every game. Let’s be honest West Ham, were rank last week, so any decent team would have beat the the..

Also today we should have been full of belief, why not play with two strikers, and try and blitz the game, and convert the chances?

Also any one for Jonas, in goal?

Big ask v Watford, I hope the players are up for it, as the season, will be compost yet again before November. And Old Nicks rising, and the darkness of this winter, could be even bleaker, than last season.

Hope eternal!

Rob Marsh
186 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:17:16
I'm struggling with those who are blaming VAR and the penalty, to listen to them, you would think we are top of the prem with no problems going into the game and have just been tripped up by one of these impudent newly promoted teams who dare to think they're a true prem team like us.

If it's in the rules, it's in the rules, it was a penalty.

Dave Abrahams
187 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:21:00
I didn't see the game, read the live forum, so can't really judge the play.

Regarding VAR, I can judge whether it was a penalty or not – where is the consistency of looking at other tackles during the game in the penalty area.

Before VAR, the one moan from all supporters, no matter what club they supported, was the inconsistency of referees' decisions; nothing has changed with VAR, except Everton are the first club this season to be hit with this particular decision. I'll watch with interest for the next team to suffer from the same circumstances.

Mark Guglielmo
188 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:25:32
Good point, Dave A.

Re: VAR, the anger shouldn't be directed at why Keane was the culprit, it should be directed at why the same analysis didn't happen with Richarlison being hauled down, resulting in a penalty for us. Terrible inconsistency.

Pat Kelly
189 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:28:04
Interesting comments here along the lines of "we couldn't even beat the likes of Brighton".

The penny hasn't dropped. We are not as good as the likes of Brighton. Look at the table. Look at our results against so-called poorer teams. We are regularly the poorer team.

Reality check: we have become whipping boys. Time for the management to take action.

Paul Hewitt
190 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:28:28
We have far bigger problems than worrying about VAR.
Mark Wilson
191 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:29:54
I enjoyed the win last week. It came after some particularly poor performances and overall a terrible start to the season. But it was fun and some half decent football was on show. Yet I didn't wander here or anywhere to comment because this is the Everton of crushed hope, failed promises and wasted money and frankly two wins in a row, one away from home, well that's the stuff of dreams these days.

Cue another dismal defeat against the mighty Brighton.

Yes the bloody penalty was harsh but Keane is so clumsy at times he's given that idiot Mason at VAR HQ the chance to award the first VAR pen without the on-field joker making the decision. He was too tight and arms waving and did, accidentally, it seems, stand on a foot. No way a penalty if the pitch-side screen is looked at but that's not the point for me. What really mattered here was another collapse to defeat.

No leadership, no shape no real momentum after that setback. Shit happens. But when it does you can guarantee we will make it very runny and exceptionally smelly. Had we won at 1-2, I'm sure few would have questioned those two subs. But the way we disintegrated and gave away a winner showed that it's not all about a goal. We really lost our organisation and gaps opened up under even slight pressure from a very limited team.

Someone asked if it was better to in effect sit back and hope for better or take action now as the losses pile up. How many more defeats does it take against bottom-half teams? How long in or around the relegation places before someone spots that much harder runs of games are on the way?

Beating Watford will be important but a cup run and a season fighting relegation don't equal each other out for me. I know it's still early is after a quarter of the season gone. Is it really “early”? I think we are well into it all and look terrible, one good two half win last week.

Oh, and how can Gomes and Davies go from that commanding partnership to that lack of control in seven days? Tom picked up, but Gomes? Then there's Walcott? The heroes of West Ham down to earth instantly. Somethings just so wrong with our setup and how you don't end up back at the manager's door I don't know but I've written off another season unless the January window produces something special.

Rob Marsh
192 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:31:19
Mark #164,

Are you re-writing what you said in retrospect?

John McFarlane Snr
193 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:31:46
Hi Danny [177],

I'm with you, in as much as I will support any Everton manager. Where we may differ is, I believe that lads who have been playing football probably since the age of 10 or 11, should know enough to try to maintain their positions, and other than running on to the pitch to organise them, I don't see what any manager can do.

Hi Mark [178], welcome to the fold, find a scapegoat or two, that always helps.

Paul Kelly
194 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:36:39
Andy, I don't think anyone resents Steve Ferns, but he has backed Silva up to the hilt (admirabley so) even though I think he's wrong, as do many people. If you post your views on a site such as this you have to accept people are going to disagree.

I have no I'll feeling towards the lad, I'm just mystified as to why he backs Silva up when there is so much evidence to the contrary!!! Results speak for themselves.

I just want him to hate Silva as much as I do because he's a useless, clueless fuck-up of a manager that has been nothing but unspectacular since his arrival in the Premier League and will possibly, quite fucking likely, take us down.

Mark Guglielmo
195 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:43:57
Sorry Rob @192, not really sure what you're asking. I very clearly stated that this game crushed my spirit and I'm not feeling optimistic today.

I'm going to try to become optimistic again, because I'll never stop rooting for them to do better. If that answers your question, wonderful. If it doesn't, also wonderful. No skin off my back, as the saying goes.

Tony Hill
196 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:50:31
Yes, Paul @185, I would select Lössl for the next game. Pickford is a seed of panic.
Anthony Jones
197 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:51:11
Why not bring Kean on? Or start him? He must be on at his agent by now. The lad needs games and we need a goalscorer.

Yet another reason to get shut of Marco and Boa Morte.

Paul A Smith
198 Posted 26/10/2019 at 19:55:10
Blueprint? I have heard it all now. Leicester didn't lose 2 vital players and need a striker anyway, did they? Neither did Wolves.

Does this feel like the team that ended last season or look as ready and confident?

Silva has had a rebuild. Results stink but our blueprint stinks more:

Lose your best performers. Fail to replace them...

Buy players that can't get into the sides of teams that we should be looking to step over...

Spend millions on a baby from Italy to be your main striker who has never played regular at the top level.

Oh and expect the manager to do better. What a blueprint.

Brian Wilkinson
199 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:03:14
Well I’ve said it for the past few seasons and will so again, get the cheque book out and get Mitchi Bats signed in January, will not solve all our problems, but will certainly boost our strike force.
Paul Birmingham
200 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:04:32
Tony, thanks for your feedback, and as we and many have picked up on, he is now a serious liability, as arguably all three goals, though not all caused by him (crap outfield play caused them) but for me they could have been saved, penalty aside.

His distribution and coupled with Michael Keane and The Wanderer, Sidibe, in context, I think Tuesday's game is the proverbial final countdown for Marco Silva.

Regardless of getting beat, the same creases in the attitude and shape, and game management show every game.

Everton needs some Spirits of the past to come back, and add some hope and guidance, in these darkest of days, as we are on the edge and we need a massive tempo to win v Watford, whom will be out to prove a point.

Anthony Murphy
201 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:04:44
Anthony, I'm glad you raised Kean. I just wonder if there is something not quite right that we aren't aware of. He's a very young lad away from home. He has been touted as a big star for the future and was seen as a huge coup. Not got any evidence here, but I worry about the homesickness aspect with someone who may feel he isn't living up to such high expectations.

On a related point, it is hard to know if he was a Brands or Silva type signing. I'm not an expert here, so it would be good to hear the thoughts of others on the footballing philosophy of Silva and the qualities of Kean. Is this the type of striker Silva would normally go for? It may be that this is part of the problem? I can't wait for the lad to start scoring, but I do worry that he is pissed-off or homesick.

Martin Mason
202 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:04:45
Whilst today was disappointing I also thought that they played quite well and the game was made impossible by bringing on Sigurdsson when Bernard went off. It was as bad or worse than having a player sent off.

We lost the pressing intensity of last week with Brighton often having an open field to run out of defence into when against Liverpool they would have had 3 players pressing up trying to stop them.

Their first two goals couldn't be defended against and the VAR decision was not only disgraceful but not what VAR was designed to do. The answer is to banish Sigurdsson and his ilk to the sidelines, get deadwood like Walcott to join them and start promoting academy players.

Joe McMahon
203 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:09:41
Ben @174, we still have way too many Moyes Lovers as Evertonains. I remember someone a few months stated on this site "that Joker Lampard doesn't deserve the Chelsea job" The reason being he isn't as qualified as David Unsworth when it comes to management. I kid you not.

The obsession with the Moyes - Kenwright era is scary. So as you can see, when we still have fans wantng Moyes or Unsworth to manage Everton, what chance do we stand.

It's fair to say that Leicester are the lastest club to speed past us. When you have a tradition of hiring managers who haven't actually won anying (of note), what you get is decades of rotting.

Billy Roberts
204 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:09:56
I really hope Brands has a Plan B, a serious managerial improvement.

If Brands has no options, we have to tread water with Silva, we could debate the pros and cons all day long but let us all take the tried and tested method of looking at the results we have had... they are fuckin appalling. To lose matches consistently against opposition like this is unacceptable.

Everton have unbelievable bad luck, (today VAR makes a new precedent against us, for example). I strongly believe that we have more than our fair share of dubious decisions, but we have to get to a performance level where bad luck won't affect us.

Someone posted that the club needs to speak up more and I strongly agree, this 'stiff upper lip' stance is admirable but is quite likely leading to us getting shafted.

On to the league cup, we have to win this game because the cups are all that's left. If we are being honest with ourselves, they always were.

Robert Williams
205 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:11:53
Colin G 153. Agree with every word - every sentiment. Like you I have also switched off, but funnily still come back here, I wonder for how long.? My season ticket will not be renewed next season and I shall put Everton as far back in my mind as I am able.

I am now past caring, past worrying, past expecting the unachievable and resigned to the fact that we are shite!!

I shall not miss the endless diatribes on ToffeeWeb, the highs and lows of matchday, nor the long trips to the game.

I will miss taking my seat at Goodison Park; I will miss the feeling of belonging, the camaraderie and the luxury balti pie!!

I will not miss the miserable bugger who has sat next to me for the past x years and has not uttered a word of greeting but sought to push and shove me to make room for his big fat arse. Ignorant twat!

I shall feel ashamed to sever over half a century of loyal adoration to the club I love – but I shall get over it.

I am sorry to say that the game and the club I love is no longer a game or club that I am prepared to suffer any longer.

Things change, football has changed, Everton has changed and I am not prepared to put up with those changes. I'm Out...

Jim Bennings
206 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:11:55
The decision on VAR was a disgrace yes, I hate the bloody thing with a passion but we have major issues here at Everton.

What is our longest unbeaten run under Marco Silva?

Since he came here we have been so so easy to beat it’s unbelievable really, the amount of dross sides that have turned us over is worrying.

Even with the setback on VAR why did we make Brighton look like Barcelona in that last 16 minutes?

Why were we not making Brighton fearful of hanging on and taking the game to them in that last few minutes?

Our players are so so mentally weak, none more than our centre halves and our abject loser of a goalkeeper that does nothing at all to bring about calm or confidence in the face of pressure.

When the bare light of day shines the reality is that with the exception of that decent purple patch springtime run at Goodison, our form since we lost that derby at Anfield in December last year has been literally appalling, the amount of shit games we have lost and goals we have leaked since then.

Rob Marsh
207 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:13:07
Mark # 195

This is EFC we're talking about here, the only consistent thing about them is their inconsistency.

If you'll accept any advice from me? It would be to be cautiously optomistic, personally I would need to see a run of 10 - 15 games we're they played well even if they lost, before I'd say they turned any corners.

Stephen Brown
208 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:14:18
It's really hard being an Evertonian! I'm driving my 5-year-old 5 hours on Tuesday for his first-ever match; he can't wait, he's looking forward to it so much!

I'm a cruel father; he could still be saved from a lifetime of this! Shall I spare him?

Steve Carse
209 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:14:54
Rob (186), it may well consistent with the laws of the game but in which case maybe the law needs looking at. Because now with VAR there is heightened incentive for going to ground and for play-acting in the penalty area.

Perhaps a clause (or maybe just a 'direction' to officials) that states that the tackle should only be penalised if it impeded the attacker and prevented him completing what he intended to do, ie, the outcome would have been different but for the challenge. In other words, back to the pre-VAR days.

Christy Ring
210 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:15:26
Sadly it's going to get harder. We will be playing tougher opposition in the coming weeks, and Silva is definitely not up to it. Steve can try and defend him, but his tactics, decision-making, not only today, but his substitutions are totally clueless, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

Brands is definitely under pressure also, how he didn't bring in a centre-back, after losing two, and not bringing in an experienced centre-forward, was absolutely shocking.

Paul Setter
211 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:18:49
Groundhog Day. As our spineless board chased this charlatan and paid his former club a premium for him, they will want to to get their money's worth before they bite the bullet.

So, for those that think he will be gone, I bet I'm more confident he won't be any time soon, unfortunately.

Mark Guglielmo
212 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:18:50
Rob @207

I'll take advice from anyone, when I'm feeling less like punting my TV across the street lol

Tony Hill
213 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:19:20
I would now go for Benitez. I hated him for his comment about us being a small club, but I don't care any more. He's a canny manager and that will do for now. Alternatively - very alternatively - what about a punt on Jesse Marsch if we want to take a wilder route?

God knows. Don't we just have to do something?

Jim Bennings
214 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:19:55
I got alarm bells when I read the Marco Silva interview last month.

He went on about the one thing that he will certainly never change at Everton will be the culture of the club.

Feck me that’s the first thing I want the manager to change.

What culture and tradition are we trying to hold on to here?

What are we deluding ourselves with, this School of Science palaver has long long since passed.

The modern culture and mentality at Everton, what is it?

Never expect to beat Liverpool home or away?

Never win a trophy again.

Never win away to a top 6 side again.

Never go into games against lesser lights with the “we are better than you” mentality?

The first thing I’d be trying and wanting the manager to change is exactly that, this losers mentality and culture that we have harboured for too many years now.

Mick Conalty
215 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:22:32
John #193, Save your best wishes for Silva as he gets into the Taxi.
Tony Hill
216 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:27:05
There was one bright thing today: Dominic Calvert-Lewin got one chance and put it away very nicely. Play him.
Anthony Jones
217 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:29:11
Attacking Brands makes no sense to me.

If he had brought in Jamie Vardy or another of that ilk, he would have been attacked for not aiming high enough. He did convince an elite Italian international who needs a run of games in the Premier League. This was the right profile of player for an aspiring club.

It sounds like we got close to Zouma but things changed when Sideshow Bob went to The Arse. We do have 4 decent centre backs on the books as it is. There was no point to him bringing in another player of Holgate's level.

Plus, we still have a bloated squad and a key aim of Brands has been reducing it so that we can spend more wisely going forward.

Rob Marsh
218 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:29:43
Steve # 209

Yes, I can see how it might want players to go to ground in hope of a soft decision, in that case we're going to do really well as soon as Richarlison realises this is the case.

Ste, I do believe that this decision was correct, there was definite contact and it can be painful on the ankle/achillies. Whether the player felt any pain or not is another matter, but nearly all players will make the most of such a contact in the box.

The VAR ref and the ref on the pitch had nowhere else to go with the decision other than a pen.

It might work for us next time?

I think in the long run it will cut out a lot of "hanky pankey" in the box and give the more skilful teams a better chance?

We'll probably be in league 1 with Vinnie Jones's son upfront by the time this happens

Kim Vivian
219 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:30:24
A word for our loyal away support - suffering a very long journey, broken down transport, ManU coaches, crap weather and THAT performance. It can't have been pretty from the moment we predictably went behind, a brief respite and cause for hope in the second half, only to be properly shat upon.

Good for you guys - the crowd sounded noisy and I'm sure a good part of that was you fellas.

Safe journey back.

John McFarlane Snr
220 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:30:39
Hi Mick [215],

If that's the case, I certainly will. It's my nature.

Mick Conalty
221 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:32:58
Jim 214 are you sure you heard him right and he actually said he did not want to change the Vultures at the club.
Stephen Waller
222 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:33:46
Silva is NOT the man for this massive club. If he remains we will be playing Championship football next season. As bad as this sounds Big Sam is a better option than Silva. I would rather play dull football and remain in the premiership than play shiny flashy football in the championship.
Ciarán McGlone
223 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:36:32
There is nothing in the rules which determine this was a foul..

The rules allow for a subjective assessment of carelessness or recklessness. The referee didnt see it as that.

VAR overruled this when they are only only allowed to do so if the ref makes a clear and obvious mistake. He didnt. He made a subjective assessment.

Standing on someone's toe in a 50/50 while looking clearly at the ball is not a foul for me... however we shouldn't even get to that point as it's not a clear and obvious mistake to come to that subjective conclusion.

Mark Guglielmo
224 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:37:41
Stephen, that's ludicrous. Especially given you're automatically assuming any manager would get more out of this team as it stands. Massive club? When, in the '80s? It's 2019. The 6th place team in Ligue 1 is a bigger club than us right now.

I take it you'd be excited beyond belief at Big Sam (good god man) also getting us relegated and then playing dull, boring football in the Championship?

Michael Lynch
225 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:37:50
Pissing down with rain, trains back to Brighton fucked up, and VAR.

What a dreadful day out.

Football has crossed a line here. If every slight foul in the box is going to be punished remotely when the ref has seen nothing, there must be at least two or three pens in every game given via VAR.

I despise VAR, but if we must have it, there has to be be consistency, otherwise it's completely and utterly pointless.

Chris Jenkins
226 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:43:02
Over the last four seasons, through these columns, despite a barrage of criticism, I have argued consistently for the reappointment of David Moyes as manager.

Now I am absolutely convinced that he is the only realistic option if relegation is not to become a reality

Mark Guglielmo
227 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:44:42
Chris, "Now I am absolutely convinced that he is the only realistic option if relegation is not to become a reality"

May want to check with Sunderland supporters on that

Rob Marsh
228 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:46:25
Ciarán McGlone # 223

The rules allow the ref to give a pen for accidental fouls.

That's what happened today, the ref on the pitch simply didn't see it or believe there was contact and then was alerted by the ref in the VAR box that a foul had taken place.

Mike Doyle
229 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:48:32
Watching the game we seemed to have a big contingent of travelling fans at the Amex. Given weather conditions in the South of England today I expect most will still be ‘enjoying’ a truly miserable trip home.
Soren Moyer
230 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:51:54
Can't believe this charlatan hasn't been sacked yet! Just tell me which team with top 6 ambitions will put up with results like this! We've gone backwards since last year and HE is the one to blame! Remember RS when they were 6th after 3 months when Woy was their manager? They got rid of him because they could see he wasn't good enough. Mark my words, Silva is NOT the man to take us forward!
Jim Bennings
231 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:52:34
Chris 226

Exactly everything that’s wrong with the current mentality at this club.

Moyes was solid without being spectacular while it lasted but that glass ceiling never got broken in 11 years did it?

I’m not saying he didn’t do some good things for this club, he did, but he’s used goods now, he’s exposed, the game has moved on since the days when he pinched a Tim Cahill or Mikel Arteta on the cheap.

When Moyes left Everton he was big news, the man that wasn’t being held back by Everton and it’s financial restraints.

In 2019, Moyes is just another Steve Bruce or Billy Davies type journeyman however, zero in his CV to suggest he should ever be considered for the job at this club again.

Mark Guglielmo
232 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:53:46
Rob @228, where does it say that in the rules? I know penalties can be given/taken away with VAR, but I can't find any 'accidental' foul provision. Unless you're saying that falls under the 'clear and obvious' error part, but even then, it doesn't actually say anything about whether or not the foul is accidental. Perhaps that's up the referee but we've seen how well they call games.

This is actually one area where the NFL has a good rule for this sort of thing, regarding pass interference. If the defending player is "playing the ball," meaning he's looking at it and trying to defend, the penalty usually won't be called unless it's an absolute mauling. Accidental trip-ups, etc. are non-calls.

If the player is just looking at the receiver with his back to the QB, it's a penalty 100% of the time.

John Pierce
233 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:56:59
This is an abusive relationship I’m in with Everton and I don’t know how to end it!!!

Yet again everything was just so obvious, typical to why that performance was truly abysmal.

Brighton offered nothing from open play, almost a little as West ham yet we lacked intensity, tempo and ball pace. We conceded three?!

I thought with Holgate in tow the high line would have a decent buffer, yet we set up much deeper than last week and the spaces weren’t squeezed by the midfield pair. The front four became detached.

Poor Alex Iwobi, the only player I though that carried on from last week. Always passing and moving. Sure he made mistakes but in their half. To marginalize him after being picked over Sigurdsson is soul destroying I’d be very pissed off.

Sigurdsson, is a dead spot, he loves to receive the ball back to goal and often destroys the momentum of our flow. One free kick he received then dribbled away from goal was quite maddening. He inhibits others because the pass never comes quickly. People stop making runs. Walcott fades as soon as the tempo drops, he plays best on instinct, waiting for the ball he’ll never have a good game. Pickford again steps towards his wall on a free kick and fails to keep out the shot. I believe that’s 5 free kicks he’s been beaten ’his side’, deffo a technical flaw there.

Silva then plucked Delph out. Jesus. However the worst part for me was going ahead we decided we had won and the team visibly relaxed. Keane was extremely unlucky for my money but you cannot give any referee a decision to make.

Like I’ve said many times, it’s inevitable he will be sacked just a question of when.

John Keating
234 Posted 26/10/2019 at 20:57:33
Stephen 208
I wouldn't worry about it
He might be 5 but he's probably had a really happy spoilt life, a bloody disgrace after all the years you have had to suffer
No you take him the match and at full time leave him there and head off home. Or just put him in a taxi to Finch Farm and tell him to stay there until the players come in.
You should drive to Manchester Airport and just get a flight to anywhere and stay there.
Why have to look at his miserable face for the rest of your life.
Wish I'd done it years ago
Andrew Hight
235 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:00:35
42 year old. Not posted for a few years. Losing to Brighton in 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s would be considered a sackable offence. Even during the years of negative spend. No disrespect to BHAFC but we’ve been spending vast sums recently. Silva is out of his depth. Change is overdue
Tony Hill
236 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:00:57
Mark, carelessness is enough under the rules. If you stand on an attacker's foot in the penalty area, you are inviting trouble. I am afraid I think Keane was careless - precisely because he hadn't looked/wasn't looking at the attacker and because he wasn't positioning himself appropriately in relation to that attacker.
Mark Guglielmo
237 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:02:04
For anyone who cares, this is about the best explanation & interpretation of how VAR is used in the EPL

Tony, I completely agree with you.

Rob Marsh
238 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:02:47
Mark #232

If a defender sticks his foot to kick the ball, but trips the forward over instead, the referee cannot ignore this, it may not be deliberate, but still an "Accidental" penalty.

Keane had his eye on the ball today but contact was still made with their forward bringing him down, it was accidental, but still a penalty.

Brian Wilkinson
239 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:03:36
Tony@213, the Chinese football season ends 30th November, that is when I think Everton will make a move for Benitez, pretty sure we will have already made contact with him to sound him out.

Do you bring a caretaker in or sit and wait, to see if results pick up.

Pretty sure though the reason Silva is still in charge is sitting and waiting for Benitez.

Just a thought.

Ciarán McGlone
240 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:03:48

Yes.. the rules 'allows'... let that sink in..'allows'.. not dictates, or obligated..

The ref was looking straight at it and didnt think it was a penalty. Mason has clearly told him that he has made a clear and obvious mistake.

He's wrong.. on a subjective call.

Derek Knox
241 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:05:10
John K, the phones at Childline are ringing now at your suggestion, and Stephen will be under scrutiny to see if he's been tempted by your sound advice, and concern for the boy's sanity. 😥
Mark Guglielmo
242 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:05:14
My bad, Rob, I missed a word when originally reading your post. Must be the tears in my eyes still.

We are in agreement.

Bill Watson
243 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:06:42
Another absolutely shocking performance. How much longer will the board put up with bottom 6 when the aim is supposed to be top 6?
This season is already a write off.
Please have some ambition and get rid of this charlatan before it's too late.
Ken Kneale
244 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:06:53
Only a team with no character, a spineless and useless coach and horrendous weather could conspire to send the most dedicated away supporters in English Football to this nonsense. If we do not rid ourselves of Silva we are relegation material. His record in the Premier league is among the worst of any manager and he is proving week on week his inability to change. What a pathetic cipher of the Club I started supporting we have become to allow this nonsense.
Mark Guglielmo
245 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:09:08
Plenty of reasons to be pissed with Silva, but today was not really one of them, other than poor subs (and even one of those gave us our 2nd goal).

It can be said that his utter stubbornness of the first 8 matches is what put us in this predicament, but if you only look at today's match, we didn't lose because of our manager.

It's curious to me why very few ever blame the players on the pitch.

Bobby Mallon
246 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:10:02
He needs to go
Rob Marsh
247 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:10:52
Ciarán # 240

Subjective yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on that particular decision.

Alan McGuffog
248 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:10:57
Foodie section of the Guardian today. How to make perfect Scouse. Refers to the Liverpool FC recipe.
Like I said before..a one club city. We no longer exist.
Billy Roberts
249 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:11:21
Tony Hill @236 what is your understanding of a contact sport ( football)
Stephen Brown
250 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:11:29
John K - I’m on right now! Haha!

No I think he’ll have to suffer like I’ve done!! To think I was a glory hunter as a 5 year old back in 1984!!

Julian Exshaw
251 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:17:01
The frustration is rife and understandable and this was yet another punch in the gut. Sickening. However I don't get the criticism of the manager based on this performance. For 75 minutes we controlled this game. We weren't brilliant but we were by far the better side. Their first goal came from sloppy play by Davies and Gomes and a bad wall. It was their first effort, they hardly had another for an hour. We fought back and deservedly went ahead. Iwobi was looking tired and had started to give the ball away,it was the right substitution. DCL came on, lovely finish, 2-1. Then followed one of the most ridiculous penalty decisions I have seen for a long time. Keane following the ball accidentally makes contact with Connolly who goes down as if shot, the referee sticks his finger in his ear as Lee Mason ( who else??) pronounces judgement. We knew what would happen thereafter.
The last 15 minutes is what shocked and annoyed me but is representative of what we have seen far too often and for far too long. A gutless pathetic surrender which allowed a journeyman 11 to get their three points. It would point to a lack of leadership on the pitch as opposed to one on the bench. We simply don't have a Peter Reid or a Tim Cahill these days.
I'm not saying Silva is blameless but our failure to buy the right players in the summer and the failure to replace Gana rest on others' shoulders. Silva's head will probably roll sooner or later but I can't help feeling he is a patsy. Time will tell.
Mark Guglielmo
252 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:21:12
Agreed with everything you said Julian - except your omission about how bad Gylfi was, but that just mirrored his own invisibility. And like it or not, poor form in any modern professional sport results in the manager getting the ax.
Ken Kneale
253 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:23:08
Mark I have. Whatever the deficiencies (and there are many) of Silva, the total lack of character, guts and professionalism does make me question the desire of those wearing the badge. My conclusion is evidence based - Very few of the current management team/coaches (a number appointed on sentiment rather than ability) or players would have gotten near Goodison in past era's
Paul Hewitt
254 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:25:30
When he's sacked tomorrow, he will only have himself to blame.
Mark Guglielmo
255 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:27:02
Fair enough, Ken, it sounds like you've at least put some thought into it and realize there's plenty of blame to go around. I'm not a 'Silva out' guy, but I'm not a 'Silva in' guy either.
Jerome Shields
256 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:31:32
I can't really bring myself to get involved in a VAR discussion.

With the players, money and resources Everton have, they should be beating Brighton away from home; anything else is an excuse.

The old adage that 'you can't beat the referee' still holds, even with an increase in technology.

Chris Jenkins
257 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:32:13
Jim 231

I am not suggesting that David Moyes is a long-term solution as manager.

However, when we were in a similarly desperate position which resulted in Walter Smith's dismissal, David came in, got us out of that dreadful situation and, with minimal financial resources produced, a decent team that punched well above its weight.

I totally agree with you that the chances of picking up the likes of Tim Cahill and Mikel Arteta for next to nothing are far less now than they were back then in view of the ludicrously high fees that are demanded for very average players.

However, Moyes was able to instil a degree of fight and tactical astuteness into the team which quite honestly, in my view, Martinez, Koeman and now Silva have seemed incapable of achieving despite their so-called impressive pedigrees.

In the short-term, we desperately need to preserve our Premier League status if we are to have any chance of the new ground becoming a reality. Relegation would almost certainly see Moshiri depart the scene and the possibility, heaven forbid, of us becoming another Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds would become far more real.

Chris Leyland
258 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:32:36
Julian – the manager get stick for this game because, well, he's the manager. He has to manage a game out with his tactics and his substitutions.

If today was a one-off and we'd lost because the game changed on a VAR decision alone, then I could understand why it might be a bit harsh to blame him. However, the evidence (particularly away from home) is that this isn't the case. Once again we end up losing a game we should have won.

We can share the blame around with the players, the director of football, the chairman or whoever but Silva picks the team, coaches the players all week and is the one in charge of day to day football matters.

If it isn't in large part his fault that we have gone backwards at such an alarming rate and the same shit keeps happening, what's the point of having a manager at all?

Rob Marsh
259 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:33:04
Paul #254,

He'll still be here tomorrow, he'll have to lose a few more to come, before the taxi is called.

Paul Kelly
260 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:39:32
Alan @ 247, sad isn't it? Plus they have one of the highest out-of-town fans- I read somewhere, (not that I don't welcome out-of-towners, ours definitely ain't glory hunters like that shower over there).

Shouldn't of they ran an article on Smalahove (sheep's head) or Finnbiff (sauteed reindeer meat, served with sauce in stew form), which looks like the contents of my bowel after a large dose of liver salts combined with a vindaloo washed down with a pint of syrup of figs.

Ken Kneale
261 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:40:32
Mark and to you. We are all Everton and hurting badly.
Mike Keating
262 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:41:47
Watched this on a stream and saw Kenwright and Moshiri looking glum as fuck, without a clue what to do next. I blame them all the way back to appointing Ballon Head (Ronald Koeman).

Knives out on R5 Live for Pickford – no longer England's Number One...

Paul Jones
263 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:42:47
Chris @ 258
Dave Abrahams
264 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:43:51
Mark (195) you say today's game crushed your spirit and you don't feel optimistic at the moment but you will try to regain that optimism. I've no doubt you will get your optimism back; give it until Monday/ Tuesday. What comes through is you really care about Everton, more than a few on here.

As long as you are patient (very patient) you will see some happy days with the Blues.

Get on with securing your future for the moment then after you get that good position you can turn back to supporting the Blues from across the Ocean. Good hunting.

Bill Gienapp
265 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:43:51
The match turned on the VAR fiasco. Period. Our overall performance wasn't up to the standard of last week, but you're kidding yourself if you think Brighton had the better of us at any point before the penalty.

You can question our mental fortitude all you want, but you can't just shrug off the VAR decision when it *completely* changed the complexion of the match. Brighton were handed a lifeline out of nowhere, the crowd got fired up and it gave their players self-belief where none existed before. God knows we've made an art out of shooting ourselves in the foot, but this –this was complete bullshit.

If the penalty isn't given and we see out the result, it's back-to-back victories, and a come-from-behind road win and the entire season looks different. Instead, we get screwed. Frankly, I'm not terribly interested in what transpired afterwards, since we *never* should have been in that position in the first place.

Billy Roberts
266 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:45:16
For the good of Everton I really hope Brands has a Plan B, a replacement manager who is a clear improvement. Anything less will be pointless.

We have to tread water with Brands for this season unless it gets catastrophic, today's VAR decision is just typical of the shocking luck? We have with decisions but our fragile nature means that any bad decision becomes fatal.

Good teams have a fuck you attitude and ride it. Another poster quite rightly pointed out the club's lilly-livered stance on these precedents that we seem to be the victim of doesn't help and most probably contributes to our sufferings. The Niasse decision still annoys me to this day but why wasn't the club kicking up a storm about it?

We desperately need to do well in the cups starting Tuesday, the league is just a turgid struggle.

Steven Kendrew
267 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:45:29
We had an awful lot of bad luck today combined with a couple of poor errors from Gomes and Pickford. We lost Bernard, the VAR decision which was a penalty, but would never have been given without VAR, and an own-goal.

Otherwise we didn't play too badly. Not as good as against West Ham but I actually think we are making some progress. Walcott seems to have had a new lease of life and should have scored today.

Move on, keep working, maybe do some business in January and see where we go. I think there is still hope for Silva to create something here.

Denis Richardson
268 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:45:42
10 games in and 6 defeats on the board already. 5 of those to sides who's main aim at season start was to avoid relegation. If we're regularly losing to bottom quartile sides at this stage, it makes the future very worrying indeed.

Our away form is simply atrocious: 1 point from a possible 15 so far this season. That's virtually a guaranteed defeat on the road every game.

People talking about luck, the referee, VAR etc. Please just look at the table and the results so far. These things cannot account for 6 defeats in 10 games. Our starting XI is packed with internationals but we can't even draw with quasi-Championship sides, never mind beat them.

It's simple for me, the manager and backroom staff need to go ASAP. They simply are not up to the job. It beggars belief that people still think Silva is a premier league standard manager. The guy should not be near a premier league side let alone Everton!

The League Cup is a distraction right now. The top priority is to get points on the board ASAP to move up the table. We could easily get zero points in December and be in the real shit of it come January.

Moshiri and Brands need to get a new guy in by the next international break.

I'm getting increasingly worried with every game Silva is given (to waste).

Ed Prytherch
269 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:46:02
The reason Sidibe was out of position for the third goal was he was pushed up to replace the winger who had been subbed. Having attacking full-backs is fine but there must be cover when they lose the ball upfield.

There has been much talk of how slow we are going forward and we are just as slow covering back. Out of Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson and Davies, how many will we have back in the box to defend a counter attack?

My heart is in my mouth every time we lose possession with our defenders up the field. I feel sorry for Digne. He scored an own goal because he was the only one fast enough to try to cut out the cross.

I don't think it matters what happens against Watford when you look at the remaining fixtures between now and New Year. Silva is doomed.

Rob Marsh
270 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:48:37
Chris #259,

With player power what it is (they play their best only when they feel like, without punishment), the game is moving towards a state were what the players really need is a stunningly beautiful bird with a Doctorate in Psychology to give the team talk, give them all a bone on while massaging their egos both individually and collectively.

It doesn't really matter what any coach may say to them or tactics given to them, they only play when they feel like it. Pumped with with testosterone, they might actually give their best.

Paul Jones
271 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:51:08
Quick question: can anyone think of a more disappointing Premier League team than Everton?
Paul Jeronovich
272 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:52:57
No defending this inept shite we're subjected to at the beginning of every season. The players are an embarrassment and ultimately cost managers their job but it is time for the club to sack Silva and bring Moyes back.

I know this splits the fan base and the fact he managed Sunderland and West Ham but every mediocre manager we've had since Moyes has been found out. Get fucking rid of Silva tonight.

Rob Marsh
273 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:53:34
Paul #271,

Over the past 25 years, no I can't, concerning the Premier League regulars.

Kim Vivian
274 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:54:13
Yes Paul - Liverpool.

I'm most disappointed that they are doing so well. Pissed actually.

Rob Marsh
275 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:55:49
Paul Jeronovich # 272

You were doing so well until you mentioned "Knife to a gunfight".

Mark Guglielmo
276 Posted 26/10/2019 at 21:59:28
Dave @264, how kind of you! You hopefully get some deserved afterlife points.

I'm going to work on 3 things:
1. Getting a job (or winning the lottery, whichever comes first);
2. Remaining optimistic (and patient, oh so patient) about our club;
3. Seeing a match at Goodison (or the new stadium);

Oh and I'll probably have to take out the trash or something in between. Cheers mate, off to my father-in-law's surprise birthday party, as if this could be any worse of a Saturday, lol.

Jerome Shields
277 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:00:55
Not to cause any alarm, but Everton's next two Premier League fixtures are Tottenham at home and Southhampton away.
Billy Roberts
278 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:03:47
I think it is massively important that we progress in the League Cup, I would love to win it and the FA cup, we have to keep some positivity with the team and fans.

The confidence this can build cannot be underestimated; imagine how horrific our season could become if we bail out of both cups?

Dave Abrahams
279 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:03:53
Mark (276), I certainly need as many after life points that I can get, go and enjoy the party and dance away the blues.
Denver Daniels
280 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:04:20
Bring Moyes back? Now that would be a cowardly decision. People need to stop living in the past.

Besides, if Moyes's tenure is considered to be some "golden era", then we really are in big trouble as a club.

Mike Connolly
281 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:04:28
Hope I wake up tomorrow and find out these 4 were right

Ken Kneale
282 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:04:55

Don't worry. We have the coaching staff and squad to lose any game, irrespective of the opposition.

James O'Connell
283 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:08:39
Paul @271,

No I can't. The pain seems endless.

Tommy Carter
284 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:09:39
Silva's away record with Everton is nothing short of appalling. In 24 games in which we have gone behind under his stewardship, we have lost 20, drawn 4.

Stats can often paint a picture, and in this instance it is a pretty terrible one.

Let's keep it simple. When Everton go behind against a team under Silva. We will not win the game. It's a kind of losing mentality that seems to have crept within the very core of the football club.

Marco is not a winner. And he is sending out a team of losers in Everton shirts most weeks.

Jay Wood

286 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:20:43
If you think our VAR penalty decision today was a cruel one, read this story from a German Bundesliga 2 game.

A sub who wasn't even on the pitch had a penalty awarded against him which proved to be the winning goal.

Indeed, the said player has yet to even kick a ball for his new team.


Ken Kneale
287 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:23:13

Silva is after him in the next window. Fits in with his 'project' for Everton, apparently.

Tony Twist
288 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:23:45
Unfortunately, it is what it is. There are a few things not working. The manager has to go and take the sports psychologist with him. It isn't working.

It's amazing that the sports psychologist hasn't been changed but the manager just hasn't got the ability to raise these players. That is a major failing with Silva.

A team of ordinary players can perform extraordinarily with the right stimuli from the manager. We need a manager that can do that and a manager that isn't letting anyone get the better of him and his team.

Brands needs to earn his money. If Brands had a say in getting Silva in then we are in the shit. Brands has to appreciate if there is just one weakness then you can get all the skilled players in the world but the team will not be a success.

Rob Marsh
289 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:25:13
Mike # 281


Kim Vivian
290 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:27:32
Another anomaly re VAR/the penalty incident. Isn't a foul in the area supposed to warrant a card of some description? I don't think Keane was carded was he?
David Pearl
291 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:28:03
We should change our motto from The People's Club to “Why always us?”

Away from home we sit so deep, leave a big gap. Looked promising in places but we overhit simple balls or mis-control; we get into a promising position then fluff it. I can't see where Silva goes from here. If we win midweek it's only a matter of time before it looks like shit again. We are stuck with this guy a bit longer, unfortunately.

Rory Grant
292 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:28:42
It's futile to blame Silva for the results. You can say he is just doing his job, able or not. He is just like a suicidal pilot they give a plane to fly week-in, week-out. Who is responsible when we crash?

More worrying that the owners seem unable to come up with a business-like, ruthless decision based on the facts. Why? Indecision, disagreement, pride, lack of ambition, stupidity? We are seriously in danger of relegation if we carry on with this, wishful, self-deception.

Brent Stephens
293 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:29:23
First on MotD! Who says we're always last?
Ray Smith
294 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:29:33
Michael Lynch 225

I've only just dried out waiting in the pouring rain for the train.

After the match and in the train I heard no end of Brighton supporters saying it wasn't a penalty, but that's the luck of the draw these days, VAR!!!

And Mark Guglielmo before you make another post pontificating about VAR, I'll ask you one question, we're you there?

You seem to take some perverse satisfaction in criticising other TW posts, and making comparisons with NFL!

I'm beginning to bypass your posts as they are IMO unbalanced and mischievous.

Please don't bother responding!

Jay Wood

295 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:30:57
Mike @ 281.

I'll echo Rob.

That's a cracker!

Sam Hoare
296 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:30:59
Once again we've not had much luck today. Never a penalty in my eyes. It's a shame as if we had won that we'd have broken the away hoodoo and the coming from behind hoodoo together.

Silva remains in the last chance saloon. I think he'll get till Xmas at the minimum. I'd say there's next to no chance of us getting relegated personally and that's the type of thinking that brought us Allardyce.

Brent Stephens
297 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:33:41

“We're you there?”

Can we only comment if we were there?

Charles Brewer
298 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:42:37
In the rugby today, England had two highly technical and dubious VAR calls which cancelled tries. If they had got either (or both) they would have had a very easy win against the best side in the world.

Instead, they got neither but dug very deep and battered the All Blacks with a combination of skill and determination. Exactly the opposite of what this crappy Everton team shows every weekend.

Tony Abrahams
299 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:42:54
Interesting story that Jay@286, and just shows the complete lack of sportsmanship in the game of football all over the world right now.

Football has got the game it deserves, and only the other day I was listening to a fella say footballers were faggots, unlike rugby players but he was a disgruntled Liverpudlian, fuming with the Man Utd player James.

I argued that whilst football is definitely not as tough as rugby, not all footballers were fags, “but the biggest problem is cheating” and couldn't he remember the stick that Robbie Fowler got for telling the ref that David Seaman, hadn't touched him, which made the ref change his mind about the penalty he had just awarded Liverpool all those years ago?

Everybody cheats in football, and it's got a lot worse over the years. You're clever if you get away with it, but it's horrible when you get done by it, with the most sickening defence of the cheat being interpretation. The Germans scoring that penalty today tells me everything.

Ray Smith
300 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:49:32
Brent 297

Yes I was, hence my comment about getting soaking wet waiting for the train!!!!

Billy Roberts
301 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:50:22
Mark Guglielmo,

I think your posts have been mostly spot-on, for what it's worth; I never noticed any NFL comparisons either??

Derek Knox
302 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:51:09
Rory @ 292,

Why is it futile to blame Silva? The shameful record of NEVER winning a game after going behind has seen various player combinations, but only one Common Denominator – Silva.

He hasn't got a clue how to manage a Club like Everton, or how to mentally prepare players before going into a match. I do honestly believe we have some very good players, and some, that more capable Managers than Silva, would love to have under their care.

It's not that the guy is doing us a favour, he is getting paid astronomically to manage! I truly believe he has displayed for far too long that this remit is well beyond his capability.

I just wish the Board would hold their hands up and be honest with the life blood of the Club, the supporters, that they have monumentally erred in their selection of candidates for manager, and act accordingly.

If you are paying these salaries, at least get someone who can possibly provide some evidence that they are worth it. No-one expects any team to win every game, but at least show some style and mental fortitude, and if possible some entertainment, not a nail-biting experience week in week out! Rant Over.

Mike Doyle
303 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:55:21
Charles #298,

I wonder if the top quality coach the England Rugby team has makes a difference?

Every time I hear Eddie Jones speak, I think I'd like to play for him (and I don't play rugby).

Somehow, I don't see the rugby equivalent of Keane, Schneiderlin et al getting close to an Eddie Jones team.

Jonathan Tasker
304 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:56:49
What continues to amaze me is that the owners saw fit to wait 6 months to employ Silva in the first place.

Nobody else saw this.

Denis Richardson
305 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:56:49
Sam 296 - that's probably the sort of thinking Villa fans had before they went down.

I had no fears of relegation in 2017 when Koeman was on a bad run. Reason being the games we lost at the time were to mostly top sides. I think we lost to Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs on the trot on the way to Koeman being sacked as well as Arsenal but at least we had the ‘lesser' teams to get points from later. This time however under Silva, we're losing to the likes of Villa, Bournemouth and Brighton and haven't even played the top teams yet, City aside. That's a big difference.

If we can't beat the sides who'll be scrapping to stay up, where exactly are the points going to come from? The only small crumb of comfort is that we can hope to pick up points at home to some of these teams next year and we're only 10 games in so still time to turn things around. However, the November games are now as I can easily see us losing the first 5 games in December.

Barring a miracle we've already blown top 6 with the games we've lost to date and top half is going to be difficult unless we can get results against the better sides (big 'if' right now). It's not just the points on the board but also who we've played. 6 defeats in 10 is basically relegation form whichever way you look at it.

Thankfully Spurs are on a bad run so here's hoping the usual Everton charity's not on offer next weekend. Lose that and alarm bells will be ringing very loud.

Ken Kneale
306 Posted 26/10/2019 at 22:57:18

Everton players could play for Corporal Jones perhaps.

Anthony Murphy
309 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:03:43
After watching the highlights on MotD tonight, we have no-one to blame for that defeat but ourselves.

Derek Thomas
310 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:04:15
Singularly fails to comply with Napoleon's basic requirement of a General. 'Never mind his tactical knowledge - Is he lucky?'

No he isn't, hapless and at the moment seemingly Helpless.

Seems there's only the Watford game and the lack of a decent obvious replacement keeping him here.

David Pearl
311 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:05:22

Exactly. I don’t know how many millions Silva is on but shouldn’t someone have to be some kind of genius to pick up that kind of salary?

The sooner we get rid of Silva the sooner we can start to rebuild and move up the table. If Moshiri hasn’t been looking already they we really are fucked. Man for man how much better are we, should we be, against Brighton? I’d of preferred keeping Allardyce over this prick.

Trevor Peers
312 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:12:11
Three of our next 5 home games are against top six opposition, given that we will probably not win an away game before Christmas, there is a chance we will be in the bottom three with half the season gone.

We have been here before many times and managed to survive JUST, this time I'm not so sure. Silva showed his usual lack of leadership today and is empty of any inspiration whatsoever. Yet his job never seems to be in doubt, that seems to be the most worrying aspect, not even a whiff of concern, so far, from the guy who took such trouble to hire him.

Jason Lloyd
313 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:15:54
Mike 303 Eddie Jones is well known for being a nasty, ruthless bugger if you don't play his way and meet his standards.

Unfortunately the switch from an all powerful Manager to a DoF and Coach model has harmed Everton massively.

The players don't fear the manager anymore, so they play without any concern for the consequences of losing.

When you get to that stage you are very close to a relegation mentality and that's where we are now.

Our absentee owner needs to act by removing Silva, Barrett-Baxendale and Kenwright at the same time.

Build a war cabinet and create a strategy focused first on getting us out of danger then into the new stadium in the Champions League places.

Andrew Keatley
314 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:17:21
There was quite a bit of criticism of Sidibe, on the live forum, for the Brighton winner. Having watched that goal again, Sidibe is up hunting turn-over possession on the edge of the Brighton box, but as Brighton break, Gomes can easily slot in and cover for him – but he doesn't do it; instead he gets drawn to the ball, is beaten by a pass, and then lacks the energy and speed to get back to cover Trossard. Gomes is more culpable for me than Sidibe, who does his best to get back into position.

Hugely disappointing to lose another away game, especially against a fairly unimaginative and workmanlike Brighton. We were unlucky, but the way we routinely seem to capitulate tells me that Silva is never going to turn this group of players into winners.

Paul Birmingham
315 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:19:10
We are in Shit Creek, without a Paddle?

Until results change, the reality is in real time and results, and the league doesn't lie, that's where we are as a club.

Survival, basics, and seize mentality are needed now in abundance, as until this squad shows proper, true grit, we are, going one way. In the crap, and it could be worst, come May 2020.

I love Everton, the best days of my life, and as is for many, but we the club is now exponentially drifting into a football abyss?

I will fight the good fight but this fuse of hope in an epilogue of constant decline, shows a type of terminal decline.

Money doesn't really count, but at EFC, it makes you almost irrelevant, in terms of winning silverware?

I've backed Marco Silva, and sincerely hoped he do the job but, in reality, nothing has changed and unless corrected, our net results are getting worst, pro rats.

No excuses for shit refs, shit VAR, we should not have to bring these factors into why, we can't win back to back games, and our away form is blight.

Dark days, and reality, but if there's any Chrimbo Bonus, as a wish list, let's try and get Zouma, in January, to help us stay up.

I sense Chelsea won't bargain, but we must try Zouma, and his, or better alternatives.

And I'd drop Jordan, but I doubt it will ever happen, but Kamikaze goal-keeping, shouldn't be acceptable at EFC.

Yes, Farhad's ears must be burning tonight, and is right.

John Reynolds
316 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:26:29
I've only read a few of the post-match comments, but enough to get the gist of the general tone. I cannot understand how people can call for Silva's head this evening when he did exactly what everyone on here demanded and doubted all week. Then, having stuck to that XI, He put Calvert-Lewin on and within two minutes Dominic had scored.

The penalty decision was a disgrace and got to the players. Up to that moment, things were in good shape. Understandably, anger and frustration bubbled over and only Everton could conjure up their captain scoring a 94th-minute own-goal.

But how anyone can lay the blame at Silva's door for today is beyond me. If you don't want to blame Lee Mason, blame the players. They're the ones you'd have picked yourself based on practically every comment on TW since last Saturday.

Jay Wood

317 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:28:12
Sam @ 296.

I'd agree with you Sam that I don't believe we will be relegated by dint of the probability that – somehow! – there will be 3 worse teams than ourselves.

Like yourself I expressed a hope before the game that, in an ideal scenario, we would concede the first goal but, but then recover to win and get two monkies off our back: chalking up an away win and breaking the Vodoo of Silva's frankly appalling 22 (and counting) games of never winning a Premier League game when Everton has conceded the 1st goal.

Today marks his 48 Premier League game at Everton. In 22 of those games we have conceded the first goal (which is concerning in itself, knowing the importance of scoring 1st in any game). That returns a percentage figure of 45.83%.

That tells you that very nearly every second Premier League game, effectively, Everton can expect to concede 1st with near zero probability of registering a win from that position. Even retrieving a draw is a struggle in such scenarios. We've achieved it just 3 times in the Premier League under Silva.

Think about that. We have gained just 3 points from a possible 66 in 22 games under Silva in which we concede the first goal. 19 losses from 22 games equates to a disturbingly high 86.36% ratio.

The numbers are even worse from this season alone. Six games in 10 we have conceded the first goal - 60% of our games. 18 points. We have lost every one of them. A 100% loss ratio.

That data, those numbers, cannot be attributed to bad luck alone. They point to something(s) under Silva being fundamentally flawed.

And can anyone honestly say that those teams that have inflicted the opening goal on us to guarantee (for the most part) that they claim the 3 points have to play extraordinarily well to do so?

I would suggest no, they don't. Just do the basics. Keep your shape. Everton will have no answer.

It is a serious, serious drag on our ambitions to improve and establish ourselves in the higher echelons of the PL.

Paul Birmingham
318 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:47:55
Jay, that's serious data, and is the facts, and the truth of the state of Everton's position.

Hope, theories, great coach, state of the art coach, but the facts are the facts.

Tuesday, must be a Stoke, Victoria Ground game, Jan 1983, Bayern Munich semi-final at Goodison Park, April, 1985, atmosphere, as a minimum, to help us win the game v Watford and Flores, who will want to make a point.

Hand on heart, we are so far off the minimum desire, fitness, belief, desire, etc, and no consistency, we do need a miracle.

Let's pray for deliverance and soon.

Terry Farrell
319 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:49:44
That result is not on Marco Silva. Only Everton can become the first team to concede a pen by VAR and we all know that it was an absolute joke of a decision or worse!

Liverpool beat Leicester 2 weeks ago with a bent penalty that wasn't reversed by VAR. Draw your own conclusions. I am depressed.

Brian Wilkinson
320 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:51:43
Tony@299, the ref still gave the penalty and MacAteer scored off it from the rebound.
Phillip Warrington
321 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:54:06
If the penalty was the other way around, we would all be saying 'unlucky' ... but the simple fact is the defender stood on the attacker's foot, intentionally or not, in the penalty box.

Unforgettably Silva will use this as reason we lost again and not the fact Everton should have never been in position where they could lose the game, first goal should have been saved by a normal keeper doing the basic's and not being a show pony.

Third was plane and simple not being disciplined keeping a defensive structure then secondly no-one taking responsibility to cover for a full-back who decided to be winger in the last 10 minutes of a game instead of keeping his defensive position.

Unfortunately, once again, today clarifies we are not a top-ten team but a middle-of-the-table team trying not to get dragged into a relegation battle that we might loose under Silva.

Derek Knox
322 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:54:22
John @ 316, I know some have criticised the team, which, apart from Mina, was what most wanted, including myself.

What I believe most are criticising is the Jekyll (home) and Hyde (away) performances, let's face it these are the same players who, only a week ago played an absolute blinder and were unlucky not to have doubled the eventual score.

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but surely it is the Manager's job to not only prepare them physically for the match ahead whether it be at home or away, but also to instill the mental fortification against the opponent.

No he stands on the touchline, or in his box, shaking his head, with a look that he has just had his Teddy Bear taken off him, and that he would have to go to bed early all week with no Cocoa.

Rob Marsh
323 Posted 26/10/2019 at 23:59:21
Jason #313,

Mr Moshiri took the initiative and brought Koeman and Silva to EFC, that turned out well.

Quite frankly, I'm a bit frightened of what his next big master-stroke will be.

And by implication Brands was brought in by the current EFC hierarchy, shouldn't he go after failing to bring a genuine forward and CB in.

David Pearl
324 Posted 26/10/2019 at 00:04:16
Jay, nice stats. Are you sure you're not Steve in disguise? Of course nobody can argue with them.

John, we didn't play too badly, grew into the game but it was littered with stupid individual errors. Second half we switched to 4-4-2: then 4-3-3. As has been mentioned awful var decision followed by Gomes running in circles. It has to go back to the manager.

We are in 16th. It's embarrassing, regardless of the money spent. We just need a change of manager. The squad isn't too far away. I don't know how Dowell is getting on but we need something different in midfield. Not much.

Lampard seems to be perfect for Chelsea at the moment. He wasn't scared to pick kids... however, he also knows how to organise and set up a team.

Calls for the board, Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale etc, however, are just ridiculous. The manager has been backed.

Jerome Shields
325 Posted 26/10/2019 at 00:10:50
Jay #317,

Those stats of yours are serious reading. The problem is that many of us can see how they arise, with the same old stories of weakness repeating themselves on a regular bases.

Liam Reilly
326 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:17:34
This wasn't Silvas fault or indeed, Steve Ferns. it was a shocking call from Lee Mason that lost us that game. It was a COMING TOGETHER, not a penalty, both players looking at the ball.

In saying that; last minute of the game, free kick and all your big men are forward; BEAT THE FIRST MAN!

Derek Knox
327 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:17:41
Jay @ 317, be careful there, mate, Sir Steve of Ferns, is donning his Knight's Templar attire and mounting his trusty steed to defend Lord Silva against such besmirching of his impeccable (?) character.

Though you should be okay, as his faithful horse does not have webbed feet, or the stamina to cross the Ocean.

I also hope you have been factually accurate in those stats, you know what they say about stats!

Jay Harris
328 Posted 26/10/2019 at 00:17:42

Although we played good footy and got a good result against West Ham I did say at the time they were very poor and Brighton would be up for this.

As it turned out, Brighton were there for the taking but so are we. Forget the dubious penalty Gomes stupidly gave away a free-kick at the edge of the box (not for the first time) and the organisation of the wall was 4th division standard as was Pickford's limp-wristed attempt at palming the ball away.

As for Digne's own-goal,that was pure keystone cops defending all round.

Personally, I would drop Michael Keane with immediate effect and play Holgate and MIna and get the whole team working on our defending.

We have a serious problem of not being able to score when we are on top and being as weak as jelly defending.

Gomes needs dropping for Delph and we cannot have Iwobi and Sigurdsson in the same team.

Jason Broome
329 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:22:18
Anyone hiding behind VAR is kidding themselves. VAR is only one decision... WE LET IN 3! What excuse for the other two?

Had this been our first defeat, then I would say unlucky and unfortunate. But it is the norm. They are a soft touch who are used to losing. It's comfortable.

The relegation teams believe they can beat us because their counterparts already have. If they keep having a go, we crumble. The mark of a coward.

They will keep picking at our bones until we are relegated.

But hey, who cares? Silva's still the saviour, right!?

Billy Roberts
330 Posted 26/10/2019 at 00:29:14
Jay, totally agree.

The figures cant be contradicted, they are fuckin appalling. I may have already mentioned this but this an old tried and tested method?? We are losing games against teams we should be beating.

If anyone wants to retort about arrogance / 'no games being easy' bollocks then get ready to get relegated.

Jay Wood

331 Posted 26/10/2019 at 00:34:01
Terry @ 319 and others continuing to bewail the VAR decision as the critical turning point.

There may well be some validity in the claim.

However, as some have already pointed out in this thread, a couple of things also arguably contributed to the defeat.

The performance today was not as intense or as fluid as last week's victory over West Ham, even though the starting XI was the same (with the exception of Holgate for Mina) as the majority on TW seemingly canvassed for.

First, the injury to Bernard on 30 minutes and the introduction of Sigurdsspon necessitated a shuffling of the lineup and effectively a change of tactic. A bolder, possibly more effective and less disruptive change, would have been to shift Richarlison left into Bernard's position (rather than Iwobi) and introduce either Calvert-Lewin or Kean down the middle, retaining both pace and power from midfield to forwards.

You can't argue against the 2nd half introduction of Calvert-Lewin as he scored within minutes of coming on. But the simultaneous introduction of Delph and the withdrawal of Iwobi and Walcott AND the reshuffle of moving Davies forward unbalanced the shape, removed pace from the attack and narrowed the pitch.

It meant to have width especially down the right Sidibe moved forward to support the attack leaving his defensive flank more vulnerable.

Potter the Brighton manager cannily exploited this with his own substitute Trozzard raiding that space and causing us havoc and creating the winner.

So yes, the VAR decision impacted hugely on the result. But so did Silva's substitutions and tactical tweaks.

And as for the side being 'traumatized' by the VAR penalty, they get no sympathy from me on today of all days.

I got up at 5 am to watch England's rugby team absolute batter one of world sports greatest sporting institutions, the New Zealand All-Blacks.

At critical times they had two tries ruled out. It made absolutely no difference to their mental or physical state or their game plan.

Everton simply doesn't have anywhere near that level of resilience in the face of misfortune which inevitably befalls every sporting team and athlete.

Paul Birmingham
332 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:40:55
All in summary, as our beloved club, Everton is freefalling into the abyss.

Our results are consistently bad and sadly never consistently good.

Tuesday night, is massive, and could be in effect the Oxford Game - Kevin Brock, back pass to but it’s Marco Silva, last stand, in my book.

The next 5 games, we will be lucky to take a net 3 points, but I want to be proved wrong.


John Reynolds
333 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:42:18
I get you Derek @322, I don't like Marco's demeanor on the touchline sometimes, but that doesn't necessarily prove he's a weak-minded surrender monkey or that he hasn't tried to drill positivity into the players midweek. The away mentality precedes Silva by several managers and isn't unique to Everton either.

Jason @329, I'd question Pickford for the first. I have huge reservations about his overall game to be honest. The third was a bit of a freak and the kind of thing that happens when the shit is hitting the fan.

This is still a far cry from the last days of Roberto or Ronald. Pressing the eject pilot button now is more likely to crash the plane than letting our man try to get it back on course.

John Keating
334 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:46:35
The reason we lost today was the fact we went down to 10 men when Silva, for some mysterious reason, brought on Sigurdsson.
Jerome Shields
336 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:47:07
Jay #328

I agree with you, West Ham were very poor. There were two instances in that game.

Pickford's cross-field ball that hit Keane and Keane's poor positional play that allowed West Ham in on goal. Any of these instances could have changed the complexion of the game. Both Gomes and Davies had the advantage of space to play in midfield, when pressed in the Brighton game, they both looked very ordinary. Gomes is a player that folds when pressurised.

I know Sigurdsson scored in the West Ham game, but it is still questionable if he should be selected and his substitution appearance was tactically wrong given his performance

I also agree that Keane should be dropped for Holgate. Holgate is more reliable and his distribution is better than both Keane and Mina.

I just see Silva limping on.

Billy Roberts
337 Posted 27/10/2019 at 00:54:27
John @333

Forget all that analysis, look at the games won home / away etc, under Silva.

And ask yourself: Is he the man for the job?

Drew O'Neall
338 Posted 26/10/2019 at 01:02:08
Michael Keane: clumsy and disorganised.

There was no ‘VAR travesty’ as Lyndon wrote on the main match report, Keane was simply ball-watching and unaware of where his feet were during a regulation piece of defending that any Premier League player should have been capable of dealing with.

What he was looking at or imagining was happening around him, when he decided to break from the line of defenders as Brighton attacked for their winner is beyond me.

We have significant problems at centre back and they extend beyond not signing Kurt Zouma in the summer.

I don’t expect Gareth Southgate will keep using Keane if he continues to play like he did today.

Laurie Hartley
339 Posted 26/10/2019 at 01:08:53
Mark #224 - I would just like to point out to you that Sam Allardyce has had 16 seasons in the Premier League and never been relegated.

Our current manager was relegated with Hull, would probably have relegated Watford, and is heading in the same direction with us.

Moshiri will have to act. Arsène Wenger is looking for a new challenge. He is the man I would be asking to help turn around the football fortunes of this once great club.

John Reynolds
340 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:10:42
Billy @337.

Honest answer: He might not be. But he should be given every chance, instead of being hung drawn and quartered every time things go arse up.

Beat Watford Tuesday, draw Crawley/Colchester and the whole focus of the season changes. It's a funny old game, Brian...

Paul Birmingham
341 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:19:53
It's chronic, at the moment, and let's hope soon, we get, a real foundation, to rebuild EFC.

Seriously we are in The Crap House, and this form and luck or no luck, we have an Everest to climb.

Survival mode plan, is needed before the Carabao Cup game.

Drew O'Neall
342 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:28:08
And as for Gomes's “tackle” which gave them the 19-yard free-kick which led to their first goal, braindead... absolutely thick. Another example of pathetic decision-making and lack of a winner's professionalism, football IQ, call it what you will.
John Reynolds
343 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:35:25
@339... Are you sure you don't want Sam back, Laurie?
Jack Convery
344 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:52:17
Just seen the so-called penalty – sick joke. First ever penalty overturned by VAR. Niasse – first EPL player to be banned for diving following a review, which was also ridiculous... Salah, anybody?

Will Lee Mason's decision be reviewed? Of course not. The game is gone... and so will I be if this keeps up.

Brian Wilkinson
345 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:12:06
We all know if this happens against one of the big Sky darlings, VAR will not over-rule it, we got shafted by it today, I have no doubts it will not happen again this season, unless of course again it is against us.

Same as Niasse being charged for simulation with only one other player facing the same ban, yep a team from outside the top 6

Even the likes of Merson and Co love to stick the boot in.

What makes my blood boil is one rule for one and inconsistency, none more so than the Clattenburg Derby, penalty and sending off one side, one turned down the other end, 2-footed Kung Fu feet off the floor challenge and just a yellow card.

It is not just today, we have been shafted time and again, even going back to Tony Kay.

Things even themselves up, my backside. If a rule comes in or dubious decision, you can guarantee we will be made the examples of.

Derek Thomas
346 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:17:55
Jay @ 331..."So yes, the VAR decision impacted hugely on the result. But so did Silva's substitutions and tactical tweaks." Silva's substitutions and tweaks, not to mention his starting 11's are why were in this situation – 5 losses out of 6.

He stumbled / was forced / 'told' to change it, he did, it worked.

He was 'told' by Us to keep it the same, he mostly did, but neglected to send them out with the same attitude and fight. They played within themselves, not in Brighton's face.

Silvas away policy is Moyeses old standby KITAP1.

When Bernard went off at 1-1, he went with the 'safe' Sigurdsson option. He saw moving Iwobi to fit in Siggi wasnt working

When, at 1-1 he brought on Calvert-Lewin and Delph he admitted his mistake in moving Iwobi to fit in Siggi... he can't do right for doing wrong... The clock is ticking on him.

John @ 333... "This is still a far cry from the last days of Roberto or Ronald." Is it, Is it really?

5 losses out of 6 !!

After Burnley Lyndon mentioned 4 losses from 4 was a Death Spiral... nothing much has changed.

I've mentioned the lack of a decent replacement. On second thoughts, it doesn't matter who, they'd have to be bad to do worse than 5 losses from 6 whoever they are.

Kevin Brock moments? ... the only team likely to provide of those on Tuesday will be Watford.

But hey, at least we're not Southampton.

Amit Vithlani
347 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:41:31
Have reflected and read a few of the comments above for and against Silva. A few thoughts:

1. We have chocolate teapot levels of fortitude whenever we face any type of adversity. We need luck to win games under him. Any form of bad luck spells defeat.

2. I read in The Athletic that he is popular with the players and they enjoy his training sessions. Yet we still concede goals / buckle under pressure in depressingly familiar fashion. When enjoyable training sessions still lead to a series of defeats, you start to wonder what they are coached to do.

3. I think he is better suited to being a trainer not manager/Head Coach, as far as the EPL. The mental/motivational and tactical aspects at this level appear beyond him.

4. Pickford's form is woeful. Lossl in my book is very average so not a ready made replacement. I can understand why it would have been difficult to sign a good Keeper as no one wants to come as a back up. But perhaps its time to take Pickford out of the firing line. I do not expect Lossl to pull up any trees but I would help Pickford work on a few weaknesses he is showing in his game.

5. I have never accepted that Brands is to blame for this situation as I believe this squad should not be performing this badly. Also even with Gana & Zouma last season we had a horrendous run of defeats. But, I do think its time for him to step up on the coaching front. It is imperative he finds a replacement and gives Silva the boot. Or, sets up a caretaker structure and lets Silva go. Whatever the case, the lack of a Plan B from Brands which would allow Silva to continue would reflect badly on him. If Silva continues then it smells of no Plan B. We are already suffering because the coach has no Plan B. If the DoF does not have one either, we really are fucked!

Ernie Baywood
348 Posted 27/10/2019 at 01:42:04
We're not great, but I'm not sure if anyone here watched the game.

Horrible conditions. A well organised opposition. And we were well on top. They'd had one shot prior to Mason getting involved hadn't they?

No, I couldn't make sense of the Delph change. No, we shouldn't have collapsed as soon as they equalised.

But the penalty decision changed the game. It was the key moment in a game we were deservedly winning to that point.

And it wasn't just unlucky, it was a travesty. No-one who ever played the game thinks that's a penalty. Two players looking up at a ball in the air touch feet. How the hell do you assign blame for that one?

I'll guarantee it won't happen again. It will get highlighted internally to every VAR official that it's not the way VAR is supposed to be used. Clear and obvious? It was nothing like an obvious error and it certainly wasn't clear.

I've no time for Silva. Never wanted him, never rated him, don't think he's got a clue, and don't think he's even done particularly well with his selections in the last two weeks. But I feel for him a bit here. We didn't deserve that.

Chris Davies
349 Posted 27/10/2019 at 03:26:05
Two constants during our previous four (failed) managers have been Keane and Pickford. Now I think about it, the only two players to have been relegated?

I don't mean to scapegoat, but I just don't know where to point the finger any more?

Alex Carew
350 Posted 27/10/2019 at 03:50:08
VAR will never work as it still favours certain teams. It's got to be consistent or scrap it. Last week, a perfectly good goal not given by Mina and not even a question if using VAR?

It can't be consistent as it's flexible still to the referee and his monkeys. If it's in Liverpool's box, go to VAR if it helps them, don't if it's against them. If it's in the oppositions box then go to VAR if it helps them and don't if it doesn't.

Refs should either scrap it or go for every decision in the box (a ref constantly watching the game and advising from the stands) but as it is, it just fails and stinks of favouritism.

Jay Harris
351 Posted 27/10/2019 at 04:09:57

Sorry to disappoint you but Wenger is already on record saying he won't manage another Premier League club out of respect for Arsenal.

Michael Allanson
352 Posted 27/10/2019 at 04:18:20
Silva has had enough chances to prove he can handle the pressure – he patently can't.

He's produced a team in his own image – meek, no passion, unable to respond to pressure with innovative thinking.

The middle of the park lacks pace; once Bernard went off, any creativity disappeared. In the close season, we were desperate for centre-back cover – it is and will haunt us this season.

I'm sick and tired, season after season, watching the same crap whilst teams like Leicester get organised and look positively at the future and buy wisely. We spend vast sums on players like Sigurdsson, Niasse, Schneiderlin... and produce dross.

Whilst Silva isn't entirely to blame for the current sad situation, it has to be said he has been clueless with team selection and in-game tactics. Sorry, Marco, time is up.

Roman Sidey
353 Posted 27/10/2019 at 04:25:36
A lot of people asking how it can be a penalty if the ball was sailing out well away from the attacking player. Ask yourself why was Keane so clumsily close to the attacker if the ball was sailing out well away from the attacking player.

People saying Holgate had a good game are just conditioned to how poor we are at the moment. I'd certainly be selecting him ahead of Keane (who I'd give away to any club for free), but for a third-choice centre-half is a physically unintimidating, inexperienced player like him is criminal. 23 is not as young as some people would have you believe.

The mentality and skill level of the club is garbage from top to bottom. It cannot be a coincidence that players come in and are mentally weak and fail to do the basics right. Misplaced passes, players ignoring a pass and then running themselves into trouble, having to trap a ball every time before striking it – that is all amateur shit.

I know some people hold a grudge against Benitez for his 'small club' comments, but in all honesty, was he wrong? I've been championing his appointment for about four years now and I'm not going to stop. Some fans would honestly rather see Everton relegated with Unsworth than succeed with a manager like him and that is very sad.

As has been said earlier, the Championship would gobble Everton up and swallow – the club just does not have the bottle to compete in that league.

Mike Connolly
354 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:21:36
Roman 353

I agree with you about Benitez he did call us a small club. Lets be honest all managers play mind games. Anyway was he that far wrong, at the moment the only thing making us a big club is, our the fans who turn up week in week out.

Great away support (must be the envy of many clubs) and the players cant be bothered to perform for them. Even the so-called smaller clubs are leaving us behind, Leicester.

We need a winning manager and I don't care where he is from. I'm sick of these no-mark managers playing the same shit, season after season. It's time to get ruthless.

A pissed-off Blue.

David Midgley
355 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:25:16
The New Zealand Herald has an article --5 reasons England won.
One was the manager, Eddie Jones.

'He knew his mind and knew his plan. A team with total belief in who they were and what they were trying to do. As much as that comes from within, it comes from the environment created by the coach and the management.'

Laurie Hartley
356 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:25:59
John #343 - yes I am sure John.

Just pointing out he has never been relegated in 16 seasons, saved at least one club from relegation, and when appointed as West Ham manager after they had been relegated, he brought them back up in his first season and kept them there for two seasons until they punted him.

Jay #351 – that is disappointing. Moshiri will have to look elsewhere then.

Sandra Bowen
357 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:28:30
Embarrassing all round.

Embarrassing decision to give a penalty,

Embarrassing that Gomes keeps giving away needless petty fouls on the edge of the box. I have to blame both player and manager for this, he has to be told to stop doing it.

Embarrassing keeping from Pickford again. Most overrated goalkeeper we’ve ever had. Can’t stand him. Needs dropping. Capable of brilliant saves but awful at the basics of the position.

And worst of all, yet another embarrassing mental capitulation from the whole team after the injustice of the farce that is the current VAR system.

Alan J Thompson
358 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:30:53
Perhaps Pickford should have done a lot better with the goal but equal criticism must be made of the "wall" parting and Richarlison ducking out of the way of the ball and not the first time this season that the wall didn't seem properly positioned.

But then everything was wrong with this goal, starting from Gomes's terrible effort at defending and, again, not for the first time. But then, there seems to be so much wrong, and repeatedly, that a decent coach may have sorted some of it by now.

Ray Smith
359 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:38:00
Roman @353,

I'm with you re Benitez. But I can't see it happening.

Also, we never get into competition with top 4 clubs when it comes to buying players. Why? Because players that attract top 4 clubs don't want to join us, as we have nothing to offer them, not even the Europa League.

Jerome Shields
360 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:40:38
Jim Bennings #214,

If Silva said that he does not want to change the culture of the club, it does indeed send alarm bells ringing.

Moshri, in buying the club, did not appear to realise the importance of changing the club's culture. In his first interview, Brands talked of building on the traditions of Everton, which I now realise I was wrong in assuming was building on the best English football tradition. He also was referring to not changing the culture.

The one thing that definitely needs changing is the culture that has left Everton 15 years out-of-date in facilities and with a poor performing team for over 20 years. What's more, Everton will continue with poor facilities and a poorly performing team into the future if this is the prevailing attitude of the new recruits to the Everton cause, whose first priority should be to change it.

Everton are no longer the Aston Villa lookalike, as Aston Villa have been relegated, got promoted and higher up the table than Everton. They have also deservedly beaten us this season.

Everton are now a standalone disgrace, with a very poor management culture.

Roman Sidey
361 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:43:43
Gomes's foul for the free-kick was stupid, but blame for that has to go to a group of players involved in the build-up, namely Keane, Davies and Holgate. Have a look back at the passage of play and tell me if any of that was acceptable of professional footballers.
Steve Brown
362 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:43:59
Putting aside the latest abject capitulation by the team, the application of VAR in the Premier League is a massive failure this season. The reluctance of the referee to personally review a disputed decision on the pitch-side monitor or large screen is incomprehensible. It works perfectly well in rugby where the referee will have issues flagged to him but retains the final decision. It has to be changed quickly before we all stop watching this farce.
Sam Hoare
363 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:53:49
Jay@317; no doubt those are some worrying numbers. And whilst I think bad luck was a big factor yesterday, it is clearly not the only factor at play.

The lack of resilience, game-management and grit is evident both to the eye and to the statistics lovers. And the sample size is growing. I still think that Silva does some good things, that this team is not that far from hitting the form we saw at the end of last season. But the small margins continue to go against us and ultimately that is the job of the manager – to make sure those small margins that decide a match fall your way. Make your own luck.

We won't get relegated though, in my view, and therefore I would stay well away from Moyes (and I was an ‘apologist' back in the day) and other such firefighters. Sack Silva only if this form continues and, crucially, if Brands has the right next manager lined up.

There are some interesting options out there (Gallardo, Rose, Hutter, Arteta, Allegri etc) but mid-season may not be the best time to snaffle the best man. Timing could be key.

Jonathan Tasker
364 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:56:29
Moshiri‘s only concern has always been to stay in the Premier League. Kenwright's view is exactly the same. That's where the money is and that's all they care about. At the moment, they are probably choosing between Moyes and Allardyce to replace Silva.

I know nothing more than the rest of you but I have past form in predicting what's going to happen:

What Big Sam’s appointment would say about the current state of Everton FC

Mike Connolly
365 Posted 27/10/2019 at 06:58:12
Ray 359

Unfortunately you're right. We have been left that far behind; it's going to be hard to attract a top manager.

Where do we go from here? I don't know... but big matches are coming and we could be in deep shit. We need major surgery and quickly.

Jim Bennings
366 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:17:00
In many ways the VAR decision yesterday gave us a perfect opportunity to find out if our players had developed any kind of backbone, we got the answer in that last 16 minutes.

It's been thrown around, and rightly so, that our squad is mentally weak and when it went 2-2 yesterday we should have channeled our anger and aggression into a desire to win that game but the match finished with us pegged back by Brighton, we couldn't even hold on to the draw.

We probably won't go down but I have no doubts whatsoever that, come late January, after a glance at the fixtures ahead of us, we will be in a battle to stave off the bottom three or four clubs.

The Moshiri tenure lurches from one disaster to another, poor managerial choices, too much money spent on mentally weak players from relegation haunted clubs (Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson come to mind) too much spent on other clubs' cast-offs, too much invested in lads with no experience of the English league (will Moise Kean ever even score or is he going to be another Sandro here?)

It's just been a pure farce.

Fran Mitchell
367 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:33:08
November is crucial – not for Silva, in my mind there is no possible future where he will be a success as manager of EFC – but for our Premier League survival.

We have lost 5 in 6. Our next 3 Premier League games in November are against our of sorts Spurs, and fellow relegation candidates Norwich and Southampton. 7 points minimum required.

December follows with games against Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal. Then 2 'more winnable' games, followed by Man City on New Year's Day.

That is scary, that is a run of games that could send us into a serious relegation battle. All in the same season 'they' will likely win the Premier League.

How anyone is still defending Silva with this being a feasible outcome is beyond me.

Jonathan Tasker
368 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:36:49
Compare and contrast our place with what's going on at Leicester. They have very good owners, a terrific new ground, an effective manager, and a nucleus of young and talented players.

Nothing will change at Everton whilst Kenwright still has influence.

Danny Baily
369 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:38:19
The entire coaching staff needs changing. We are in a relegation battle when we shouldn't be.

I've wanted Silva out since the build-up to Huddersfield away last year. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat in that one, but my opinion has stayed the same.

Brent Stephens
370 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:39:35
Ray #300,

I wasn't asking if you were there! I quoted you saying you were there and asked a question.

Tony Everan
371 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:42:39
So the VAR refs are now just picking a choosing which infringements in the penalty area to look at?

Richarlison gets wrestled to the ground with his shirt being dragged out of sight of the ref. This gets overlooked.

Keane accidentally puts his foot on the Brighton man's foot whilst trying to get in a clearing header. He's got to put his foot somewhere whilst they are both looking in the air for the header! And he doesn't know where the Brighton man is going to move to prior to that.

It's an absolute joke of a decision, the first pen to be awarded against the ref's decision this season.

Everton deserve an apology from Lee Mason and the Premier League. It cost us 3 points and has killed the fragile momentum.

Nothing less than a sincere apology will suffice, I won't hold my breath for it. Shame they can't be sued for their complete negligence.

Tony Abrahams
372 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:48:44
You called it right yesterday Jonathon, but I hate to read such negative posts a couple of hours before the game and especially after I'd just watched a fantastic team performance by the England rugby team.

We all get some things right and some things wrong. I know Keane is average at best, and predicted Brighton would cause him problems, but that was a simple one really because, if you watch Everton every week, it's easy to see Keane causes himself problems, because it's like he can't see both the ball and his opponent at the same time and a forward doesn't have to produce much movement to lose Keane, who then loses sight of the ball.

He's poor unless you defend deep, and Silva doesn't want his team to defend deep, so I can't understand why he's been playing him.

The biggest problem is what I said yesterday's commentator said about how Everton only play with intensity at Goodison (and that's if we are lucky) but never away from home, and a manager who keeps selecting certain players when it's obvious there are better players not getting a game.

Phil Sammon
373 Posted 26/10/2019 at 07:54:02
I can't believe some people are placing any blame on Keane for the penalty. It wasn't even clumsy. Two players both looking at the ball, both put their foot in the same spot. You could equally blame the Brighton player for putting his foot under Keane's.

VAR is certainly ruining the game but I think the bigger issue is assessing what actually constitutes a foul. If this kind of contact is a free-kick then the players are literally unable to touch one another.

Why is football becoming such a non-contact sport? You speak to any fan and nobody likes it, yet we are still getting pushed in that direction.

Danny Baily
374 Posted 27/10/2019 at 07:56:21
Jonathan 368, what has Kenwright got to do with this?

Two different Directors of Football have chosen this mess of a squad and Silva is a terrible manager (who Moshiri moved heaven and earth to appoint for some reason). That's why we are where we are.

We were much better run in the Kenwright years.

Ken Kneale
375 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:08:57
Danny... sadly, we were much better run BEFORE the Kenwright years.
Jim Bennings
376 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:09:09

My view and perception of Moshiri became very clouded when he appointed Allardyce in a pure panic move back in November 2017; why he needed a troubleshooter so early on in the season was pathetic judgment on his part. We wouldn't have been relegated if Koeman had stayed, Koeman had a horror run of fixtures in the autumn coupled with Europe to contend with.

So it's no shock that Moshiri got the appointment of Silva muddled up either. Headhunting a man with nothing but relegation in England on his CV was just weird, especially when he sacked a similar manager in Martinez when he first took over in 2016.

Andrew Presly
377 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:11:23
I know this is an Everton site but I really feel sorry for anyone on here who only follows football.

This boring, nihilistic Groundhog Day crap week after week has rendered me completely numb to all the missed chances, brain dead defending, non existent tactical variety, typical “Everton that” VAR calls or even the basic failure of most of our extremely well-paid playing & coaching staff to show any heart or soul.

England were absolutely epic in the rugby yesterday; Wales have their biggest game in years coming up now, the NFL season is hotting up and basketball is back. Maybe start watching your local non-league team? Do some grassroots coaching? Cycling? Swimming?!! I'm serious.

There are loads more useful and fulfilling things to do than worrying about whether Michael Keane stepped on someone's toe or Lee Mason is a corrupt oaf. I'll try to follow my own advice by leaving it there but basically don't let Everton grind you down!

Tony Abrahams
378 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:21:26
I'm criticising Keane for what Drew describes in his third paragraph in post 338, not for the penalty, although as I've said, he doesn't ever appear to ever have eyes for both the man and the ball.

Peter Walton said a good thing, why didn't the ref check the screen himself? (I take it there should be one on the side of the pitch?) – especially when it supposedly took Mason 14 views to decide it was a pen (the refs had probably watched the rugby and seen how much easier they dealt with key decisions yesterday morning) but people are human, and humans usually like some people or things and hate others, so without transparency (rugby) we will always get unfair decisions.

Walton was in the studio when Liverpool lost in the Nou Camp last season, and when Messi wanted a penalty for a handball, Walton said it was never a penalty. I actually agreed with him, but when talking about it with others, I said I'm sure he would contradict himself within the next few weeks, and sure enough when Liverpool got a penalty in the final, old Peter Walton said they'd been giving them all year for this type of offence in the Champions League.

Eddie Dunn
379 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:21:49
Just reminded myself of the incidents on Match of the Day, and the one constant about us this season, is how easy we make it for the opposition to attack us.

The 3rd goal is a case in point: Sidibe is lost upfield as our attack breaks down. We are desperately trying to get a winner in a game that has been thrown wide open. The midfield are all out of position and when the cross is thrown in a stretching Digne pops it past Pickford. Everyone was struggling as soon as we lost the ball.

Even with Gomes and Delph on the park there wasn't a cool head that thought "Hey we could settle for a point away from home". It wouldn't have been the end of the world. We had been cheated (most people in the media agree) by Lee Mason, but we would have still gone home with a point and the moral high ground (for what it's worth).

However the naivety of the coach and players led us to blow-up in the 4th minute of injury time. Daft as fuck.

Phil Wood
380 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:24:45
Has he gone yet?

Ray Smith
381 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:26:10
Brent 370


Still drying out 🌧

Steve Brown
382 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:29:05
Andrew @ 377, that's like asking an alcoholic why they drink!
Joe McMahon
383 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:31:29
Danny (374),

Makes me wonder why the John Jay Moores and Charles Noell takeover ended then Moshiri stepped in. I do remember they were talking about the stadium straight away. Would we have been any better off?

Terry Farrell
384 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:40:56
Jay, your comments @331 are all valid especially regarding the rugby team's performance. I'm just sick of us not getting justice. I'm not even asking for a little bit of luck although that would help just honesty!

That penalty is not a penalty in any circumstances. Standing on someone's foot in the way that incident occurred is not even a foul outside the box. Without this, the 3rd goal doesn't happen.

Ray Jacques
386 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:43:11
Drop Pickford. That would be a good start.

Sack Silva, it is not going to work out. His record at Everton and his previous clubs shows this. I would welcome concrete evidence that he is the man for the job. Appoint Benitez. Whether those frothing at the mouth about his Liverpool past like it or not, he was correct when calling us a little club. They regularly gave us a pasting when he was manager and I think he made the comments after we frustrated them in a drawn derby match by 'parking the bus'.

We haven't won at Anfield for 20 years and have beaten them at home possibly 3 or 4 times in the same period and haven't won a cup in 25 years, so as manager of Liverpool, his opinion was/is valid. I want a manager who believes in his ability and moulds a team to win football games and if you lose, he then demands more.

Of course the cowardly board won't appoint such a man because of his past and also because he will come in, clear out the deadwood (staff and players) and make demands on the oh-so-cushy hierarchy who sit like zombies and talk shite about EitC, The People's Club and reminisce about league wins 35 years ago.

I remember the great days of the eighties and it was a fantastic time to support the Blues coming home for the game from Uni. However at the Sheffield Utd game when they were promoting the latest film, Howard's Way. I was cringing with embarrassment rather than thinking, "I must buy this." How sad, but the constant failures have got me to the stage where I still love Everton (that cannot change) but I just shrug my shoulders and think,"Well what do you expect? It's typical Everton."

Change the ethos, get a winning manager and end this stale, static, losing mentality from top to bottom. I dread every day that Moshiri will stop the cash and we will fall into the abyss with a large squad on big money and long contracts and an owner who wants out because he cannot make it work.

Brent Stephens
387 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:49:31
Ray. No problems mate. I know the feeling. Got drenched after last season’s game at Wolves and was still wet when I got home.
Dave Abrahams
388 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:51:21
Jay (331), the things you point out are all basic necessities and lots of us can see the faults, week after week. Why can't the man who is paid huge wages see these very obvious choices?

Tony (378), if I asked you who would you bring in as a coach to solve these defensive frailties and to vastly improve the quality of Keane's performances I know who you would suggest: Alan Stubbs, 10 minutes away from the ground.

Whoever is the defensive coach is he is doing nothing to improve the shambles that constitutes Everton back four, they haven't got a clue, the coach and the back four.

Going on Tuesday, Everton will play better and differently, simply because we are at home, pathetic! I'd love the crowd to greet them with silence when they run onto the field. It won't happen, of course. They will be welcomed with applause, silence might make them think and nudge their conscience. Nah, what am I thinking of, today's players, with a conscience... showing my age there I'm afraid.

Christopher Timmins
389 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:56:52
The 3 league games in November need to produce a 6-point tally in order to provide any sort of justification for sticking with the current manager. particularly when one considers the run of fixtures to date.

Yesterday just showed the awful the signings made by Walsh and the Dutchman were during their period in charge. Pickford and Keane are at best moderate and, while he did not start yesterday, Siggy has been a major let down. Pochettino did not move him on for nothing.

One positive from yesterday was the continued goal-scoring form of Dominic Calvert-Lewin, 5 from the last 5 games that he played some part in.

Even the great Ken Buckley would find it hard to take any joy from the current state of affairs.

Mark Tanton
390 Posted 27/10/2019 at 08:59:30
I've been angry a lot at Everton this season and last. But, man alive, what kind of penalty decision was that? Absolutely disgraceful. I am still speechless.
Jay Wood

391 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:04:49
Derek @ 327.

I've made the tactical error today of not factoring in the clocks going back an hour in the UK overnight and got up an hour earlier than necessary to watch the Wales - South Africa Rugby World Cup semi-final.

With some time to kill before the game kicks off, I've painstakingly and carefully looked back at Marco Silva's 55 game career as Everton's manager. I did this because different reports give different numbers on the 'Everton-never-win-under-Silva-when-the-opposition-scores-first' stat. Even in yesterday's match report on the BBC it gives that number as 24 Premier Leagues games, 20 defeats, 4 draws.

I can categorically say that is not accurate. The absolutely true and accurate data is as follows:

In the Premier League ONLY the record reads:

P 21 W 0 D 3 L 18 F 13 A 41 Pts 3 (from a possible 63, a minus goal difference of 28)

To that, you can add two League Cup games in which the opposition scored first: Home to Southampton (d 1-1, lost 4-5 on pens); Away to Lincoln, the ONLY game under Marco when we got up to win having conceded the opening goal, 4-2.

The game is now about to KO, so when I get time, I will adjust the percentages from my earlier post @ 317 to reflect the true numbers.

Another startling thing from this deeper research is just how heavily we have been outscored in this set of data.

Now... cummon Wales!!! I'd love an England-Wales final.

Allan Board
392 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:07:28
Here we are again. Not interested in VAR or bent officials.

Once more, an inept performance from a completely uncoordinated, ill-prepared, uncoached, unprofessional, ill-disciplined and lackadaisical so called football club.

The owners will never employ a leader who tells them to keep there nose out of the football bit and just supply money when required. Back-slapping free-loaders the lot of them.

The formality of relegation is now nearer than ever — just take a look at the teams who they've lost to in the last 12 months, it is alarming.

Anthony Murphy
393 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:25:29
What frustrates the most with VAR is that the system is still very much open to human opinion and interpretation. The example of Lerma for Bournemouth earlier this season treading on the foot of David Silva is a case in point.

As shown on MotD, this incident was viewed by VAR and no penalty awarded – deemed by whoever the VAR ref was to not be ‘clear and obvious'. Yet, a similar incident with Everton yesterday deemed worthy of a penalty. For me, VAR therefore resolves nothing as making the right calls are still at the behest of individual opinion.

However, I think it is a bit rich blaming VAR and bad luck for our defeat yesterday. Teams struggling at the wrong end of the table often feel luck is not on their side, but it papers over the cracks.

Paul Burns
394 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:30:13
Everton should lodge an official complaint over that non-penalty shambles. It seems they were actively looking for an excuse to get Brighton back in the game, incredible bias. They didn't look at a single one of Everton's shouts. What the hell are the rules?

It would not even have been considered against particular clubs. In effect, we now officially have different rules for different clubs.

The silence from the empty vessel that Everton FC has become is deafening and disgraceful. As usual. We're like a bullied kid in the playground who won't stand up for himself and let everyone just walk all over us. Sickening.

Graham Coldron
395 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:36:19
When VAR was first introduced, the first thing I said to my son was that would adversely affect Everton in some way or another. This is exactly what has happened. I'm sure many Everton fans share this view and it cannot always be attributable to bad luck. The question then arises is there a hidden agenda regarding Everton?

The penalty yesterday defied all logic especially when compared to the Richarlison incident and surely adds fuel to the hidden agenda argument. Football over the years has had its fair share of scandals so why would a bias against one team be so unusual?

Also factor in we have been on the wrong end of dodgy decisions for years... Maine Road 77 etc – it makes merely adds to the argument.

Mick Conalty
396 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:39:54
Dave #388,

The players entering the field in total silence is a great suggestion, It would certainly prove a point.

Ray Roche
398 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:46:29
Anthony @393

It's easy for you to say that it's a bit rich blaming VAR for yesterday but used correctly, and honestly, we would have won 2-3. VAR, in its present form, is not fit for purpose, takes too long, and is open to an individuals interpretation of the rules.

“Clear and obvious” decisions don't take 2 minutes of watching slow-motion replays from every angle to come to a decision that is still incorrect. 10 or 15 seconds should be the maximum amount of time to view the incident and previous precedent should be adhered to. Too much dishonesty in the present VAR version.

Mick Conalty
399 Posted 27/10/2019 at 09:55:03
I can see it now: in the Championship next season, on Quest TV. Kopite Colin Murray (God's gift to humour!!!) presenting Everton's game, with a big smirk on his face.
Roman Sidey
400 Posted 27/10/2019 at 10:09:06
At about 89 minutes, the commentator said that six minutes were being added on and that both sets of fans would love it because both teams would feel they could go on and win it. I remember having a bit of a laugh and thinking the commentator must have been taking the piss because anybody who's paid any attention knew that Everton were never going to win that match.

I'd also agree with a post above saying the next three league matches should yield 7 points to be deemed acceptable – we'll probably get 2 points at most – but you can just see that Everton will play Spurs into form next week.

Anthony Murphy
401 Posted 27/10/2019 at 10:45:21
Sorry, Ray, I don't get you? I agree with what you have said as it's sort of what I'm saying too is it not? So why start your response with ‘it's easy for you to say'? Don't get that at all, Ray.

I think I'm entitled like anyone else to raise issues relating to our approach yesterday, Ray. I thought conceding a free-kick for the first was naive and unnecessary. The setting up of the wall was also at fault.

I thought we were unlucky with the penalty, but we didn't manage the game properly when it was 2 2 - we did what we often do. The stats provided by Jay above outline our appalling record on our travels, so I think we are lacking in the right approach, tactics and mentality when faced with adversity especially away from home.

I think that is down to poor coaching and management and I don't think that has anything to do with luck or poor refereeing VAR or otherwise.

I'm done here. Later everyone.

Frank Crewe
402 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:05:14
Compare us to Chelsea. They sold Hazzard, their best player by a mile. They can't buy anyone else because of a transfer ban so they are playing a bunch of youngsters and they have a new manager who has only managed one previous club. Yet they are going along like a train, winning match after match.

Everton have spent £100s of millions in the two summers, including £65 million on two forwards Tosun and Kean who can't get on the park. Our current manager has managed two other clubs in the Premier League and three on the continent yet we are going along like a three-legged donkey.

So why is there such a difference in fortunes? It's the attitude of the manager. Lampard was a winner as a player and he has instilled this attitude into his players. He is prepared to take risks and has shown faith in his youngsters who have repaid his faith by winning games playing attacking, exciting football.

Silva is not a winner and it shows. He is cautious and has no faith in his players at all. When Bernard went off yesterday, he could have put Kean on but he didn't; on came Sigurdsson instead who immediately disappeared. Eventually we ended up with Delph and Calvert-Lewin on and what happened? we fell apart and lost as usual.

Unless our fortunes miraculously improve in the coming games, there is no doubt Silva is going to get the boot. When he looks back, he will realise a combination of his own excessive caution and lack of faith is what caused it.

Paul Jeronovich
403 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:21:24
Come home, Davey Moyes...
Rob Halligan
404 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:23:53
Apologies if what I'm going to write has already been said above, and the fact that I didn't get home until after midnight from the match; I've not looked at the comments above or seen any highlights of the game.

I've read somewhere this morning that Lee Mason needed to look 14 times at the so-called penalty, which means to me it was not a clear and obvious error by the referee, and therefore it shouldn't have been awarded.

Lee Mason is one shit referee. Why should he be any different just because he's sitting in a box somewhere away from the stadium, he will still make the same shit mistakes looking at a TV.

I've also read that many pundits have also ridiculed the decision, with many ex players saying it was not a penalty. We all know that decision would not have been given against Liverpool, or any of the other Sky darlings.

Ok, who's to know what the final result would have been without the penalty being given? We could maybe have still lost or drew, or gone on and scored ourselves and won comfortably, but FFS, let's try and be consistent and fair with the VAR decisions.

As I said, to look at it 14 times surely means it cannot be an obvious penalty? No doubt someone will correct me and say there was contact, or whatever it was Keane did, and it was a penalty, but football is a contact sport, and there are going to be times when there is contact in the penalty area and it's not a penalty.

VAR is totally ruining the game and it is going to drive more and more people away from the game.

Ian Lloyd
405 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:25:08
Forget about VAR - We are in serious trouble with this joker in charge. Relegation is serious possibility and we still appear to be not doing anything about it.
Derek Taylor
406 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:42:46
Given that Moshiri has blown a fortune on the signings of two failing Directors of Football, I can't see him continuing to splash the cash – even if we find the team in the relegation spots.

I guess Silva will be the sacrificial lamb when the axe falls but what type of manager is likely to get results from this spineless mob?

Will he again look to a defensive saviour such as Moyes, Pardew or Houghton or will it be time for the manager of Burnley or Bournemouth to be invited to step up to the plate? Of course, if the DoF avoids the cull, it is likely to be yet another Johnny Come Lately in the image of Silva and his foreign predecessors!

Lose at Watford and I'm betting it will all happen in the next seven days!

Jay Wood

407 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:44:31
Bugger! Sorry to see Wales couldn't see the game over the line. Horrible percentage rugby by South Africa. England needs to spank the Boks for the sake of rugby, never mind just for themselves.

But back to the corrected data referenced in my posts @ 317 and 391.

The burdensome stat of Silva's Everton never winning a Premier League game in which they concede the 1st goal gets reported at different numbers.

The following is most definitely 100% accurate.

In total, Silva has managed 55 Everton games, 48 of those in the Premier League.

Silva's 'score first and fail to win' stat in Premier League games only reads:

P 21 W 0 D 3 L 18 F 13 A 41 Pts 3 (out of a possible 63, with a minus 28 goal difference)

That translates as 21 of 48 Premier League games – 43.75% of all Premier League games we play – we have near zero chance of winning having conceded the 1st goal.

That number is even starker when calculating the 18 losses v the 21 games in which we concede 1st - 85.71%.

This season alone it is even more dismal. 6 losses in 10 Premier League games – 60%. 6 out of 6 losses in games we concede 1st – 100%.

The goals for and against are also damning. Just 13 scored and 41 conceded in those 21 games for a minus 28 goal difference.

We have failed to register a single goal in nearly half of those games – 10 out of 21.

As I wrote earlier, these damning numbers are a serious drag on our ambitions to climb the league.

And can anyone honestly say that, within those 21 games, teams had to play extraordinarily well to inflict on us the results they did?

I would suggest no. Just do the basics. Be organized and if you score the 1st goal that is pretty much 'job done' against Marco Silva's Everton.

Karl Meighan
408 Posted 27/10/2019 at 11:47:45
If you keep employing losers with form for getting teams relegated, these are the results. Martinez, Allardyce, Silva and the fraud Koeman was no better. Had any of them ever been involved as manager of a winning team?

The bad signings made and money pissed up the wall is all these losers have in common.

Steve Carse
409 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:00:35
Rob (404), spot on.
Derek Knox
410 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:06:20
Jay @ 407, thanks for taking the time and effort into getting the exact corrected statistics of Silva's dismal away form, and it is even more shocking that he is still in the job.

Surely this can't and won't be tolerated for much longer by Board and fans. The big question being have they got someone in mind, or will they take the fireman / caretaker route until the target becomes available?

Rob Halligan
411 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:11:58
Please, Derek, I hope you're not implying bring Allardyce back? FFS, that could even drive me away.
Derek Taylor
412 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:15:33
No, Rob, I'm not implying anything. Merely setting out the possible alternatives. But, with Moshiri and Kenwright at the helm, nothing would surprise me!
Rob Halligan
413 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:17:11
Sorry Derek T. I was referring to Derek K's post.
Brent Stephens
414 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:27:22
Jay #407, Damning statistics (they can be useful!). The failure to effectively respond after going a goal down suggests a shocking lack of motivation (from the team? the manager? both?) and / or an inability to be tactically flexible.

Or our squad just isn't as good as the likes of Brighton, Aston Villa, Bournemouth. I can't believe it's the squad. Nor one or two individual players, as conceded goals have come from mistakes from various players.

Has anybody honestly been able to defend Silva for so long?

Rob Halligan
415 Posted 27/10/2019 at 12:36:48
Just seen the highlights on Goals on Sunday.

Right, here we go .

Sorry Jordan, you should have saved the free kick, even though it was hit with such power.

Definite penalty on Richarlison. He's wrestled to the ground from the corner and a clear penalty. Not referred to VAR.

The big one Never a penalty a million years for Brighton. The ball is in the air and Keane has his eyes on the ball, with occasional glances at the Brighton player. He's not looking at the Brighton player at the point of contact. He accidentally steps on his foot and he goes down. How the fuck can Mason give that as a penalty? Mason needs to be brought to account for that.

Andrew Keatley
416 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:04:20
The contact for the penalty is problematic for me. Connolly is being clever, making small steps as if to leave his foot almost intentionally in Keane's way – a bit like leaving a trailing leg out when dribbling round a defender. There is contact – that much is obvious – but is it a clear and obvious penalty; I don't think so. And if the powers that be decide that it is then I think we're going to see players trying to draw any type of contact in the penalty area. It's a dangerous precedent to have been set.

The game was littered with individual errors. I feel a bit sorry for Silva. Having said that, I strongly feel he is not the person to take us forward, and anything less than progress in the Carabao Cup on Tuesday against a seriously out-of-form Watford must see him gone.

Steve Carse
417 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:14:56
Particularly, Andrew, as Watford will likely put out their reserves.
Derek Knox
418 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:16:26
Rob @411, No mate I wasn't specifically advocating Allardyce, I was alluding to someone being appointed temporarily with a sensible 6-month contract, to ensure Premier League survival.

I suspect it could be Moyes, if Kenwright is still a flea in Moshiri's ear. He would be better than this clown, though not popular with most fans.

Ash Moore
419 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:21:49
I'm over Silva, and I'm over Ferns and his fifty smug posts a thread defending this gobshite.
Brian Hennessy
420 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:24:43
Let's look on the bright side, guys.

If we stick with Silva, the chances of us having similar decisions as yesterday going against us next season will be greatly reduced.

They don't have VAR in the Championship...

Tony Hill
421 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:25:48
Yes, Andrew @416, I was wrong about the penalty yesterday. It's not clear and obvious at all. I do wish Keane would show more awareness though.
Steve Brown
422 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:26:23
Bring back Moyes, heard it all now. Sacked by his last four clubs.
James Hopkins
423 Posted 27/10/2019 at 13:59:18
In response to Brent 414, they did respond and went 2-1 up, but were undone by a disgraceful decision to award a penalty.
Brent Stephens
424 Posted 27/10/2019 at 14:10:05
James, I take your point about a bad VAR decision but we really were poor in my view. Not a patch on last week's performance. And this against Brighton. I'd judge us on the whole game – not just the VAR decision.
Darren Hind
425 Posted 27/10/2019 at 14:16:27
I woke up feeling very miserable today. I didn't think I would get over yesterdays collapse, But I spent the morning with family and I'm now smiling again.

The smile turned to laughter when I logged on here to see the stattos chasing themselves up their own arses again. Will they ever learn?

Silva is taking a kicking and rightly so. Yesterday's defeat happened on his watch, but there was so much about yesterday's match which was out of the control of any manager.

Daft-arsed stats didn't lose us the game. A combination of desperately poor decisions from the officials and shite by the players did that.

Derek Taylor
426 Posted 27/10/2019 at 14:30:58
Stephen at 417.

We shall beat Watford Reserves 4-0 with Calvert-Lewin notching a hat-trick. All will be well with the world and Silva's future will depend on us getting to Wembley!

Mark Guglielmo
427 Posted 27/10/2019 at 14:51:57
Darren @425. Spot. On.
Dave Ganley
428 Posted 27/10/2019 at 15:02:19
Yeah, very true, Darren... although I have to say that England winning yesterday did compensate for the misery.

Let's see what Tuesday will bring. It won't paper over any of the gaping chasms that we have seen this season but I'm so desperately hoping we can go further in this competition – if only to give us a little light relief to the inconsistent shite being served up in the Premier League.

Bill Watson
429 Posted 27/10/2019 at 15:26:18
Just getting my knees back into working order after the coach trip to Brighton. Best part of the trip was the cafe and bar in the nearby Students Union building!

Five away games against beatable sides have yielded just ONE point; anyone who thinks this isn't relegation form needs a reality check.

I'm starting to think being turned over by Watford may be in the best interests of the club because surely that would be the end for Silva.

Rob Marsh
430 Posted 27/10/2019 at 15:44:11
Jonathan Tasker #368,

How can you blame Kenwright for what's happening on the pitch?

The last two managers (Koeman & Silva) were chosen and pursued by Moshiri (illegally) and Brands has brought in the current crop of players.

It just doesn't make sense to blame Kenwright anymore.

Bill Gall
431 Posted 27/10/2019 at 15:49:06
Lets get over the "Was it or wasn't it a penalty?" We lost again... against another team that, if we wished to finish in the top 6. we should have beaten in the other 85+ min in the game.

Under the management of Silva, his record this season of 3 wins 1 draw and 6 losses doesn't look very good and his overall record at Everton of 54 games (22 wins, 11 draws and 21 losses) does not look top 6 management.

Everton are his 3rd team in the Premier League. He joined Hull City on 5 January 2017 and they were relegated. At his next club, Watford, before he was fired, they at one time only had 5 pts from a possible 30.

At the end of last season, he had Everton in a respectable position with the promise of funds for transfers for the start of the next season... so what happened?

They lost 2 players from last season. They signed 1 player to fill the position of midfield but unfortunately he is injured. They spent the whole of the transfer window trying to sign a player that Chelsea told them they would not be selling. Between Silva and Brands, Everton brought in a number of other players to strengthen the side for this season, so what happened?

Everton are a large organization with a large number of employees – all geared to one thing and that is their Premier League Team. Failure at this level is strictly in the hands of Brands as Director of Football and mostly Silva and his coaches who work under him.

FACT: Brands supplied names of who were available to Silva and they bought the players they could come to an agreement with.

FACT: now these players come under the supervision of Silva and his coaches, so any failures are his responsibility, and his team selection and game management are showing his faults that he will not willingly change.

FACT: Silva is not and will not become a top 6 Premier League manager.

FACT: the Board and owner are responsible for the poor hiring of previous managers.

What happens now? There does not seem to be any top manager available at this time, that will not involve heavy negotiations with their present clubs. (Just because you have money does not mean you can always get what you want.)

So, through poor management from the top to Silva, Everton are sliding down from a top prospect to a has-been club and with no-one that seems to have the balls to make the tough decisions to change it.

Everton as a club may be hurting but the people who are hurting the most are its supporters, and these are the people that the club can ill-afford to lose, many of whom have supported this fine club home and away before most of these board members, managers, players and coaches came here.

Mark Guglielmo
432 Posted 27/10/2019 at 15:51:20
Rob @430 correct me if I'm wrong, but there are 11(?) men on the board, 2 of which are off course Brands & Moshiri. How many of the remaining 8 - in addition to Kenwright - are Kenwright yes-men holdovers?

Depending on the answer, that may be the reason his name keeps coming up.

Andy Crooks
433 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:08:22
Good post, Darren @ 425. Mason is so bad he seems, but "obviously" isn't, corrupt. The match official was staggeringly inept. However, we are so often robbed, so often victims, so often on the end of every shite decision.

However, good teams can take this. We are mentally weak. The coach seems, to me, mentally weak. We have a relegation profile and I believe we must act now.

Two other things. Ash, @ 419, your post is unfair. Steve Ferns is a proper Evertonian, not smug, but passionate. I disagree with him, though. Silva must go. Secondly, Holgate and Mina must be first-choice. Keane is just poor. Holgate will be good, very good.

Kim Vivian
434 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:11:18
Southampton are in a total mess right now from top to bottom, more so even than us. Although his position is said to be safe, I have heard it rumored that Ralph Hassenhuttl could possibly be tempted away if a suitable post, in is eyes, became available.

Notwithstanding Soton's recent showings, which are mitigated to some extent by the car crash that the club is just now, does anyone with more knowledge than myself consider he could be a viable alternative to Silva?

Bill Watson
435 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:16:04
Mark # 432.

There are about 5 board members but Moshiri, himself, is not actually one of them.

Jay Wood

436 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:16:27
Dumb and dumber @ 425 and 427.

You're both fond of evoking the strawman argument, but both poor in understanding and applying it.

The presented (disturbing) data is indisputable fact. It is not claimed that that data lost us yesterday's game. The defeat simply extended that data. The actual causes of the defeat and the data are mutually exclusive.

If you want a tactical analysis of what contributed to yesterday's defeat, read post 331.

Other than the VAR decision, what else about yesterday's match was "out of the control of ANY manager" as you claim? Were the following "out of Silva's control?"

* His choice of substitutions?
* His tactical adjustments in-game?
(Both of the above led to a withdrawal of a balanced formation, speed and width, particularly to the forward line)
* His failure to improve Gomes' tendency to give away cheap free kicks within shooting range?
* His failure to ensure his goalkeeper and defence construct a solid defensive wall from said free kick?
* His failure to take note of the growing influence of Brighton's substitute Trozzard raiding our right flank causing us havoc and creating the winner, whilst continuing to allow Sidibe to support our attack? (watch where Sidibe is - 70 yards from protecting our penalty - when the ball breaks down around their penalty area).
* His continuing inability to instil resilience and belief in his team whenever any inevitable misfortune befalls us? (Only one team looked like winning in the final 15 minutes)

In professional sport, the very best teams, the very best athletes, are just that because they don't crumple at the first reversal that chins them. Hell, even the most modest of teams and athletes can achieve more than their ability suggests by having the desire, the strength, the resilience, to not meekly surrender at any time.

The game was not lost due solely to the dreadful VAR decision, or "desperately poor decisions from the officials." The scoreline was still 2-2 at that point.

We - the manager and the players under his charge - contributed MUCH more to our defeat yesterday than anything the match officials or even the opposition did.

The stats you apparently revile so much reveal very starkly just how much of a drag they are on our desire to see progress in the league.

Only someone very dumb, or dumber, can fail to acknowledge that, or stupidly claim that a 'statto' has argued the data was responsible for yesterday's defeat.

It's not even a white lie. It's a big fat one.

Brian Porter
438 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:25:20
Silva's time was up after the Burnley game. Everything since is just prolonging the agony for everyone concerned with the club.

And could Silva be unwittingly signing his own death warrant? Talking to a friend last night, who happens to be Italian, and who watched the game yesterday, he said to me, "Why is Silva not using Moise Kean? Juve is a bigger club than Everton, (couldn't argue with that), and they trusted him and he scored goals, Italy is bigger team than England, (maybe), they trusted him and he scored goals. He will score goals for Everton but only if he gets regular games. What makes Silva a better judge than the managers of Juve and the Italian national team?"

I couldn't argue with him. His points made sense. When Bernard was injured yesterday, it was an ideal opportunity to give Kean some meaningful game time and Premier League experience, sp what did Silva do? Sent Soggy Siggy on, who took away the creativity from the team and disrupted our rhythm completely.

Surely it's time to give Moise Kean an opportunity to show what he can do, and I don't mean one game and then back to the bench. Show some faith in youth, Marco, isn't that what we were promised?

Either way, our form is relegation form, 6 defeats in 7, just pathetic and any other club would have wielded the axe by now, but of course, we're Everton and the board (Moshiri) will probably wait until it's too late before getting rid of one of the worst managers I've seen in 60 years supporting this once great club.

Dave Abrahams
439 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:25:39
Bill (431), spoken like a good true Evertonian, you’re hurtin’ mate, like a lot of us Blues, and I can feel your pain.
Phil Greenough
440 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:34:59
Bill@431. Writing "fact" in bold letters in front of your opinion, does not make it one.
Daniel A Johnson
441 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:35:29
Jay Wood [407]

That makes scary reading and your final line

"Be organized and if you score the 1st goal that is pretty much 'job done' against Marco Silva's Everton"

Pretty much sums up Everton under Marco Silva.

George Cumiskey
442 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:36:07
A bad var decision goes against us and what happens ? We collapse like a house of cards. Because we've got a team and a manager who can't respond to adversity, and it's got to change quickly or we WILL be in a relegation battle.
Peter Neilson
443 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:36:12
It wasn’t a clear and obvious error that the ref. had missed and was then made worse by him not checking the pitch side monitor. So we end up with a subjective decision still being made. It’s nonsense. Regardless of this Silva looks both poor and unlucky. An out of sorts Spurs (just gone 1-0 up!!) and a just hammered Southampton coming up. Early November could decide his fate before the international break, can’t see the League Cup alone saving him.
Bill Watson
444 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:40:08
Dave # 439

It's more anger than hurt, Dave.
Anger that this manager keeps on committing the same errors game after game.
Anger at the lack of action by the board.
Anger that, once again, we're having a train wreck of a season.

Phil Greenough
445 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:43:08
It's hard to rationalise the amount of injuries and bad luck, Everton have suffered over the past few months.
Bill Watson
447 Posted 27/10/2019 at 16:47:02
Sorry Dave. Opps! I see your response was to Bill Gall and not me.
I agree with Bill, too.

Too many Bills!!

Rob Halligan
451 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:06:30
Another farcical VAR decision at carrow road. Penalty to man Utd after about 30 looks by the VAR referee. If anything the initial foul was by James, but the VAR ref deems it a penalty for manure. Fortunately justice was done as Rashford had his kick saved. About 3 minutes later he scores to make it 2-0.


Michael Lynch
453 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:12:45
Suddenly there's a rash of VAR-dictated penalties being given. So there's clearly been a new directive issued. Expect dozens of penalties over the next few weeks, and loads of players (cough - Richarlison - cough) taking a dive every time a defender brushes against them in the box.
Mark Guglielmo
454 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:13:50
Bill @435, thanks for the correction. No idea why I thought there were more. Ok, so Brands is one, Kenwright is another, any clue as to the other 3 and who they pledge their "allegiance" to?
Rob Halligan
455 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:19:10
Another VAR review in favour of United. About 30 looks and finally penalty given but again missed. So now we've had 3 VAR reviews this weekend to overrule the on pitch referee and award a penalty after a review when before none had been awarded all season.

Had something been said??

Darren Hind
456 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:20:26
Indeed Rob

Its killing the game. That decision against Keane was shameful. Those who have played will know that when two players go for a ball in the air with their eyes on the ball, one will often come down on top of or stand on the other.

If that's a foul. The games finished

Danny Baily
457 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:20:49
VAR doing us a favour at Carrow Road!

It is ruining the game though.

Michael Lynch
458 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:21:03
Rob - I think something must have been said. And I think it's going to be an even bigger fuck up than VAR already is. Players are going to be surrounding the ref after every incident in the box, insisting VAR takes a look.
Bill Watson
459 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:31:51
Denise Barret-Baxendale: CEO
Colin Chong: new stadium development and Goodison legacy planning.
Sasha Ryazantsev: funding and Moshiri's man.

Along with Brands and Kenwright that's it.

Andy Crooks
460 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:42:10
Rob, spot on, VAR will destroy football. Football is not a stop start game. It is about human error, emotion, who's the bastard in the black. The ref fucked up, cheating bastard etc.
Now, the ref fucks up but it takes seven minutes. Honest to God I am near done with the game. VAR is the nail in the coffin.
Mark Guglielmo
461 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:42:54
Got it, thanks Bill. With this new info, I can't see why Kenwright continues to be blamed, either. His voice certainly can't (or shouldn't?) be the majority one.
Bill Gall
462 Posted 27/10/2019 at 17:57:36
Brian # 438
You only have to look at the Chelsea side who sold their best player Hazard, what can be accomplished with bringing in young players. Good managers can become better, dropping established players who are not performing up to premier standards, and using younger players who are challenging for their position.
Bill Watson
463 Posted 27/10/2019 at 18:00:27
Mark: I agree but the board is hardly likely to vote against Moshiri.

I think that in Silva's case the opinion of Brands will be pivotal.

Christy Ring
464 Posted 27/10/2019 at 18:47:59
How can the board vote against Moshiri, not alone did he appoint different members, he's also majority shareholder.
Chris Jenkins
465 Posted 27/10/2019 at 20:52:36
Danny 374 & Rob 430

I agree totally with both of your comments regarding the continuing criticism of Bill Kenwright.

There is no doubt in my mind that the club was run in a more sensible way when he was the major shareholder.

Yes, of course he made mistakes, the Martinez appointment being the major one, and perhaps the Kings Dock project could have been more effectively managed from a funding point of view. However, overall he steered the club safely through very difficult times when finances were severely constrained after Peter Johnson departed and throughout his time in control premiership status was preserved.

I doubt very much that he was instrumental in the appointment of Steve Walsh or Marcel Brands and it seems highly unlikely that either Koeman or Silva would have been at the top of his list as manager/ head coach.

There is no way that the present precarious position can be attributed to Bill

John Boon
466 Posted 27/10/2019 at 21:59:10
At a time that I was wondering about writing on ToffeeWeb I have to confess thta after watching the replay of the so called penalty, many times over, I needed an outlet to help soothe my frustration, and ToffeeWeb remains by far the best cure.

As usual an accurate report of the game particularly the fact that we wilted completely after the penalty. I posted earlier but that was immediately after the game. I retrospect I feel that I underestimated just how much the penalty decision affected the remainder of the game. It not only was detrimental to Evertons last fifteen minutes but gave Brighton an impetus that hadn't been seen for the previous seventy five minutes.

One of my reasons for staying away from posting was that some supporters have tended to dominate postings to an excessive degree. Another was because some responses are rude far beyond what could be called honest criticism.

However back to the topic and the Brighton game. Any fan who was fanatical and brave enough to make the 600 mile plus round trip deserves only compliments. Ray (294).was an example of such a fan. For that reason I think that Mark(308) who described him as a 'cantankerous old fool with a waterlogged brain needs some introspection. Mark, all he did was disagree with you. You are the one who just needs to relax !!!

Rob Marsh
467 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:03:24
Rob Halligan # 415

In the penalty box, If a defender sticks his foot out to kick the ball, but trips the forward over instead, the referee cannot ignore this, it may not be deliberate, but still an "Accidental" penalty is given.

Keane had his eye on the ball, but contact was still made with their forward bringing him down, it was accidental, but still a penalty as above.

What's not to understand about that?

John McFarlane Snr
468 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:20:56
Hi John [466], does the phrase, "Priming their guns" strike a chord?
Rob Halligan
469 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:22:24
Rob Marsh, the thing is Keane did not trip the Brighton player, he accidentally stood on his foot, whilst watching the ball in the air. Keane did not bring the Brighton player down, he went down because he felt contact. What was Keane meant to do, hang his foot in mid air. It was a simple coming together of two players which happens all the time in the penalty area. A coming together of which one player made the most of it to try and win a penalty.

What's not to understand about that?

Rob Marsh
470 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:36:41
Rob Halligan # 469

It doesn't matter if Keane was limbo dancing, cart wheeling or levitating his way around the their player, there was contact, he stood on their players ankle/achillies area and he went to ground.

The VAR ref gave a decision based on that contact, that's easy to understand!

Whether the player was really hurt or not, we'll never know, but it doesn't matter the decision was correct according to the laws of the game.

Rob, you're one of a good few on here who are seeing this through angry eyes. When this happens to one of our players up the other end, I doubt you'd say never a pen, let's move on.

Rob Halligan
471 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:42:14
In that case, Rob, I look forward to seeing many penalties awarded in every game from now on, seeing as the slightest touch on an attacker will result in him going down, and a penalty given after a VAR review.
Mark Guglielmo
472 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:51:04
John @466 by your own admission you haven't been on here much. His comment was just the latest in a line of criticism and inability to process some fairly simple logic and/or analogies I've put forth. Now personally I don't give a rodent's behind if he likes me or not, but don't make comments about things you're not all that familiar with, thanks.
Rob Marsh
473 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:53:54
Rob Halligan #471,

Yes you're right I think there will be more penalties that in the past would have been regarded as being "a bit soft". They will under the "strictest rules" of the game be genuine penalties.

We've got Richarlison and we should win a few off him.

Rob, it's no longer a man's game. I wen't to my 8-year-old nephew's game and there were kids diving in that game and being told to get up. I wonder where they get this behaviour from?

James Marshall
474 Posted 27/10/2019 at 22:55:48
VAR aside, we're total shit this season, yet we're only 3 points behind Man Utd who are 7th. This is the state of the Premier League this season – the standard ain't great despite all hype about it being such a great competition.

The majority of teams are all as good/bad as each other and keep beating one another – the plus side is that there are teams and squads that are shitter than us (amazingly), so we'll stay up.

A kopite mate of mine was saying today how he can't understand our plight – from the outside, he reckons we have one of the better squads in the division, but something just needs to click to get us going. I rarely listen to them, but I hope he's right.

You can see the same pattern of late – we start shit, get slowly better, then finish strong and end up comfortably 8th(-ish). Mediocre Everton continues.

Mark Guglielmo
475 Posted 27/10/2019 at 23:00:51
Rob @470, while flawed in how it's being used in the Premier League, VAR doesn't give, make, or overrule decisions. Only – and I do mean only the in-game official can make the final decision.

In our situation yesterday, it unfolded like this:

1. Keane accidentally steps on the guy's foot and he acts like he stepped on a land mine;

2. VAR ref (Lee Goddamn Mason no less) whispers in Madley's ear that he may have missed something and we're going to take a look (well within VAR's guidelines);

3. Mason watches it 14 fucking times and radios back to Madley that it could be a foul... here's where it breaks down;

4. Madley allows Mason's suggestion to be the final ruling without even using the sideline monitor!

So the guy who originally said 'no foul' allowed his feeble mind to be changed without ever even looking at it again himself. Completely unacceptable! Simply looking at the monitor would have afforded him the opportunity to say "Thanks, Lee, but, to me, it was totally accidental and I'm sticking with no foul."

Instead, you get the worst officiated professional league in existence to continue to hold that title.

VAR works perfectly. The humans are the morons.

Rob Halligan
476 Posted 27/10/2019 at 23:13:06
Mark, you make an interesting point about Madley using Mason's suggestion as the final ruling on the penalty.

So Madley goes by Mason's decision and gives the penalty, having not seen a replay of the incident. Madley then goes home and watched the incident several times over, and thinks to himself "shit I don't think that was a penalty, maybe I should have used the touchline monitor".

I think from now on, it should be made compulsory for all on-pitch referees to take a look at the touchline monitor if the VAR official thinks a penalty is the right decision.

Jay Harris
477 Posted 27/10/2019 at 23:43:42

Kenwright is still chairman and Moshiri has already said he runs football matters. Who the hell do you think sold Lukaku and brought Rooney back on £150k a week?? That sure as hell wasn't Moshiri or Koeman.

Brands was on record a few months ago stating that Kenwright had to okay transfers.

Kenwright's ego is much bigger than his ability and the sooner him and Barrett-Baxendale and the other Kenwright pantomime figures are out of the club, the sooner we will progress.

A succession of failed managers since Moyes suggests there is more wrong at the club than just the coaching – although why we gave the job to Silva or Martinez, I will never know.

Mike Doyle
478 Posted 27/10/2019 at 23:46:20
Rob [473],

Sadly kids are all imitating what they see Premier League players do – and it's not a recent thing. 10 years ago, my son became disenchanted with football when he watched the same lads he played rugby with, feigning injury, arguing with the ref and, in one case, reacting with a perfect Thierry Henry “Galic Shrug” of the shoulders every time a decision went against him.

Richarlison is always throwing himself to the ground – usually for little or no reason. If I was a ref, my initial conclusion would be that he was over-reacting (because he usually does).

Ian Pilkington
479 Posted 27/10/2019 at 23:47:59
I stupidly decided to take up my seat option for the Watford match a few hours before the Burnley debacle, so I will be going on Tuesday, very reluctantly.

Even if we beat them, does anyone seriously believe that we could win the Carabao Cup with Silva in charge?

Rob Marsh
480 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:21:37
Mark # 475

Yes you're right it's the on field ref has final say, but I doubt any on field would will question the decision of the VAR ref very often.

Rob Marsh
481 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:25:02
Rob # 476,

It would be better if the on-field ref had seen the tv footage for himself, but the Women's World Cup put an end to that possibility – it was adding 10 minutes onto every game.

Mark Guglielmo
482 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:26:17
Rob @476 I can't remember where he wrote it, but one of the fellas on here says the guy's name. Head of officiating maybe?

Anyway, he instructed all officials to NOT use the sideline monitors because apparently the entirety of Great Britain is deathly afraid of "slowing the game down." Completely irrational. The average review (in the leagues where VAR is used as it's supposed to be used, aka all of them besides the EPL) takes less than 90 seconds and those are only the difficult ones like ours might have been.

The truth is that most reviews are done and over in less than 30 seconds, and an average football match has just about 30 minutes of the ball not even being in play!

No one would even notice or remember those crucial 60-90 seconds but they sure would remember the call being correct. So the whole "it slows down the game" complaint is unfounded and a complete farce.

Just further points to the ineptitude and corrupt nature of EPL officiating. It sucks.

Mark Guglielmo
483 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:31:37
Rob M, that may be but in this case, Madley could have "ignored" the VAR recommendation only to confirm what he himself had originally called on the field!

So rather than proving himself right, he conceded to VAR and essentially said "Durrr, I'm an idiot and was wrong." Again, without double-checking it his damned self! If you have that much doubt in your own abilities and judgment, you have no business collecting a paycheck as a professional referee.

Derek Thomas
484 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:33:29
If you take away the Brighton player's 'shooter on the grassy knoll' drop to the floor, if that incident happened in the centre circle, nobody would have batted an eye.

VAR, as applied now, is shite. It looks at the wrong things, in the wrong way, all the usual whinges. There's even by default a two-teir 'Accidental Handball' rule now. It's either an accident or it isn't, not depending where in the pitch it happens, ffs.

Some said it would be a total dog's breakfast beforehand but were, if not shouted down, then 'over-ruled' about VAR – it's the modern way, we need it, get with it, etc.

Who was right?

Everton FC is still being run in the same manner as VAR -– poorly.

You don't often get what you deserve, but you usually deserve what you get.

Rob Marsh
485 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:37:34
Mike Doyle # 478

Yep, football is a thoroughly dishonourable sport.

I love watching rugby and admire the lads who play it, the respect they show for each other, the rules and the ref is marvellous to behold.

It's one of my greatest regrets that I never got to play it, my Liverpool Labour-run Protestant comprehensive school wouldn't even contemplate such a ruffians sport to be played by the sons of the working class.

Don Alexander
486 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:51:57
Rob (#485), I completely agree with you. Football has long since become thoroughly toxic. Rugby, league and union, has easily surpassed it on the integrity stakes, as has cricket.

Begs the question why I'm even typing this shite on an Everton fan-site I suppose, but I'm infected, for all my fucking life, in support of the Nirvana I still cling to, in trying to achieve the status of a trophy-winning team.

What did I do to deserve this?

John Pierce
487 Posted 28/10/2019 at 02:22:07
Players dive, cheat, and gas-light officials to win games. It's accepted because that is professional sport with massive financial repercussions. It's okay as long as you win, right?

Yet the officials are the ones called inept, crooked and biased

In the arms race to win things and stay relevant, it's the players that are morally bankrupt.

Let's mic the referees up and we'll see what little bastards the players are. Referees need the right of reply and to fight their corner.

But, the more they are abused, misunderstood and held to a standard they cannot possibly reach, the less people want to officiate. You'll be desperate for the halcyon days of Hackett, Poll, Durkin and Webb.

Ernie Baywood
488 Posted 28/10/2019 at 02:53:21
Just watch the games this weekend when strikers and defenders 'come together' in the box.

It'll be like the boxing match in Porridge. Everyone flat on their back.

Mark Guglielmo
489 Posted 28/10/2019 at 04:56:53
John P, I know where you're coming from, but you have to admit, when it comes to VAR, the way refs are handling it has been poor.

Wasn't it you who pointed out that the Premier League refs have been instructed to not use the sideline booth review? Apologies if not, but by omitting that crucial component, they're effectively neutering their own decision-making and handing it over to the video guys. That alone defeats the entire purpose of having VAR at all.

We should debate this over a beer... 🙂

Tony Abrahams
490 Posted 28/10/2019 at 07:23:23
It would definitely be progress, John @487. I think one of the reasons the rugby players must just accept decisions is because they know that the ref is miked-up, and also the way the decisions are explained by these very professional and thorough referees. (Even though I'm sure they are not professional!?)

Cheating has been incorporated into football for years now, from top to bottom, and this is only helped by some of the laws of the game.

If that was a foul by Keane, then why not an indirect free-kick? Why did football do away with the indirect free-kick, especially inside the box? I wonder if it was because all the controversy keeps it in the news, because it sure as hell doesn't help a sport that is already littered by cheating.

Bill Watson
491 Posted 28/10/2019 at 09:50:28
Ian #479

I'd happily trade the Carabao Cup for Silva!

Getting turned over by Watford would be short-term pain for long-term gain.

John Keating
492 Posted 28/10/2019 at 10:26:03
Has anyone kept up to date which player is due to be rolled out this week backing Silva, tactics, unlucky, injuries, pulling together and the rest of the usual stuff ?

My period of giving Silva the benefit of the doubt has expired. He has to go unfortunately.

John Keating
493 Posted 28/10/2019 at 10:59:31
Bloody hell, that was quick! I see Lyndon's post – young Holgate next on the list. Soon they'll be down to the Under-16s.
Rob Marsh
494 Posted 28/10/2019 at 12:30:36
Don Alexander #486,

I've got no idea why I keep suffering this every weekend; it's what all the males in my family have done – I probably don't want to accuse myself of desertion and be the one who broke away. Not to mention most of my mates are Blues... it's just a cross we have to bear.

I'm finding this season particularly grim. I'm really struggling with just how much has been spent and how devastatingly crap we are.

How can this be?

Darren Hind
495 Posted 28/10/2019 at 15:40:42
It's easy to believe that we go behind in something like 43% of our games. But those claiming that this translates to having "zero chance of winning having conceded the first goal" kinda paint themselves into a corner.

Using their own figures and logic, they leave themselves with no option but to accept that we haven't gone behind in the other 57% of the games and therefore have zero chance of losing.

Stats, eh?

John Boon
496 Posted 28/10/2019 at 16:28:50
Mark (472), I go on here when I have something useful to say. You do not need to be rude arrogant and self-righteous to any fellow Evertonian.

You obviously need banal, childish overly long diatribes to try to make your overused and many many posts seem logical. If people don't agree with me I have the manners to respond without using personal criticism and the lowest form of humour, namely sarcasm.

Or perhaps I am just one more cantankerous old man (see Mark @308) who has been watching Everton since 1947. You remind me so much of a certain President... You probably consider that as a compliment.

One simple and polite question: Why do you need to often write even more than the usually erudite article that you are responding to? Oh sorry, my apologies — I am resorting to your "sarcasm" strategy.

Joe Bibb
497 Posted 28/10/2019 at 16:52:11
Hi Ho Silva Away
Jamie Crowley
499 Posted 28/10/2019 at 18:03:27
I had to listen to the second half. Couldn't watch. Have seen the replay last night, admittedly knowing the horrific outcome I watched peering through my fingers.

I think just about every bit of bad luck occurred Saturday to conspire against Marco, but he didn't help himself with his substitutions, despite DCL scoring.

I didn't like Siggy coming on for Bernard. Said so in the Live Forum. Didn't like putting Iwobe wide, he looks much, much better in the middle. Sigurdsson slows us down too much, but he got the nod from Marco. I'd have not put Delph into the game.

Forget about all that. Here in America, often times coaches get fired simply because "it wasn't working out."

After 10 games into this season, we've lost 60% of our games.

FFS Everton, you've dumped millions into this side. Demand results please! Just once raise the bar and demand a return on your investment. I'm sorry if it's a tough decision, but as my recently deceased Father-in-Law used to say, in a quite non-politically-correct fashion to be sure - "If it were easy we'd leave it to the women and children." Now I don't like or agree with the tone and message of that quote, but I use it to illustrate it's time to make an unpleasant, undesired, but necessary decision to move the Club forward. And someone, male, female, adult, child, Martian, needs to step the fuck up and change the direction we're heading in.

Just to hammer it home we've lost 60% of our games this season!

To quote the reason here in America for a change of manager, "this isn't working out."

Ray Smith
500 Posted 28/10/2019 at 22:25:36
John 496

I couldn’t have put it better myself.

Your ref to post 308 is directed at myself. However, I have chosen to rise above it, and will no longer enter into or comment on MG posts.

Don Alexander
501 Posted 28/10/2019 at 22:55:58
Tony (#490), whilst I don't think Michael did anything wrong at all, you remind me that indirect free-kicks are somehow history now. To me that's a shame because certain incidents in a match warrant their award. They demand imagination and promote excitement - but what's that got to do with football these days eh?
John Boon
502 Posted 28/10/2019 at 23:40:36
RAY (500),

My pleasure. I am quite sure that you are more than capable of defending yourself. I really enjoy positive banter, particularly concerning Everton. I just don't have much time for the "Bully", whether it be physical or verbal. I was more than capable of defending myself against bullies when I used to watch from the boy's pen back in the day. However at that time I was only nine or ten years old. From what he says he has got to be at least thirteen.

Jay Wood

503 Posted 28/10/2019 at 00:21:06
Darren @ 495.

You trip over yourself in trying to mock the stats you so despise with the comments you make.

Yes, in 43% of our games under Silva - 21 of a total of 57 games in which he has managed Everton - when the team concedes the first goal we have lost 18 of those 21 games, 85.71%.

A reasonable person looking at those numbers would accept the statement that Everton has a "NEAR zero chance of winning having conceded the first goal" (you slying missed out the wee adverb NEAR in quoting me). 3 points from three draws from a possible 63 points kinda reinforces that.

But then you use YOUR figures and YOUR logic to make YOUR claim that as we haven't gone behind in the other 57% of the games we "therefore have zero chance of losing."

YOUR claim can only be true and directly compatible with the original and proven example if Everton never lost having scored first. But they did. Three times.

DCL scored first in the 2-6 shaming by Spurs at Goodsion.
We led 2-0 at Newcastle, only to lose 2-3.
We scored first v Milwall in the cup, but lost 2-3.

Semantics, eh?

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