Everton fall to the Champions again

By Michael Kenrick 28/09/2019 215comments  |  Jump to last

André Gomes misses out again with a rib injury that has now sidelined him for four matches in all competitions

Everton host Manchester City at Goodison Park this afternoon hoping to spring a surprise on the reigning champions and reignite their Premier League season.

Calvert-Lewin leads the line with two changes from the last Premier League game. Walcott starts om the right with no place for Bernard who is out sick. Iwobi and Kean are on the bench. Schneiderlin, Coleman and Sigurdsson, who have yet to impress this season, keep their places.

Andre Gomes and Jean-Philippe Gbaman remain long-term injuries for Everton, while former Blue, John Stones, is also out injured for Man City.

The visitors got things started bedecked in lurid puce and sick-coloured strip, Mahrez firing in on Pickford, with Delph trying to block, Walcott going down after taking a hard cross to the head, for an extended period of treatment. Walcott did not recover and had to be stretchered off, Iwobi brought on in his place after a long stoppage.

De Bruyne got behind the Everton defence but Mina was in strongly to snuff out the danger. Defences were largely on top in some early exchanges, Coleman, then Sterling having their advances blocked.

A ball cleared poorly by Mina out to Marhez was crossed in very dangerously for Gundogan to finish but incredibly he hit the bar from 2 feet as City piled on the pressure. At the other end, Richarlison drew a soft foul just outside the City area, Digne lashing the ball over rather poorly from what was likely to be a rare set-piece opportunity.

Richarlison did some great work to steal the ball off Sterling but Everton could not retain possession. The Blues were too easily pinned back by a very high press. Sterling waltzed through the Everton defence but no-one anticipated his gift at the end of it, City toying with an increasingly dominated Everton side who could not get out of their own half.

Mina was across well to defend at the expense of the first corner, but no danger. Everton tried to play out from behind, resorting to the long ball with Calvert-Lewin offside from his own head-on.

A great interception and some fine ball movement should have seen a goal for Sigurdsson, his sidefoot straight at Fernandinho. And so right back to the other end via Mahrez skipping past Digne and Jesus scores off a brilliant ball in from De Bruyne. Sigurdsson had another chance immediately after the restart, firing straight at Ederson.

A great run by Coleman stopped with a disappointing reverse ball from Digne just as Everton looked to break through but a quick turnover and Mahrez is suddenly firing at Pickford. Everton had some possession but failed to use it to any real effect, while City structured another shot at Pickford.

Some faster passing by Everton and, when it looked to have broken down, some determination in the area gave Coleman the chance to clip the ball in for Calvert-Lewin to finish with a nice diving header right on the line.

Richarlison was very strong to break down the right but Calvert-Lewin failed to return the ball to him as he was fouled by Rodrigo, who went into Micahel Oliver's book. Richarlison could only head the free-kick weakly at Ederson. But Everton showed some good effort, trying to play through the weakened City defence. A great ball over the top by Iwobi, but Sigurdsson could not do anything with the high ball.

After a good spell for the Blues, City settled things and started to threaten again, with Richarlison again doing well, but Jesus got in wide left and lashed over, as Mina cuffed Sterling running across him. Added time of 6 mins for Walcott's treatment saw better shape from Everton that thwarted some strong City attacks but a lack of care with the ball failed to prevent key turnovers, Gundogan eventually firing at Pickford. Honours even at the break.

Everton restarted but another beautiful exhibition of movement, pace, ball control and accuracy was worth a City goal, the final shot blocked well before it beat Pickford.

Otamendi body-checked Calvert-Lewin to his cost. Sigurdsson swung in a decent-enough cross but Rocharlison got too far forward to head it effectively. Richarlison did well again to win a free-kick off Zinchenko, Digne delivering well and Mina was free but headed too strongly into the ground for Ederson to fingertip the ball over on the bounce. From the corner, Everton were almost exposed but the pace of the game was intense.

Sterling almost got in close but Keane was there to shepherd him away from goal. But Everton were holding their own and occasionally threatening, in a relatively open and lively encounter. De Bruyne was unhappy with Schneiderlin's dreadful late challenge, which earned only a yellow card for the Frenchman. A fantastic ball in Mahrez seemed to put Sterling in acres behind the Blue line but he slotted wide as Pickford advanced well.

Richarlison again suckered in Zinchenko. Sigurdsson swung in a good ball but it was just too crowded for any Blues head. Coleman almost played in De Bruyne. as the game seemed to hang delicately in the balance, a goal from either side set to make or break Blues hearts.

A City corner was worked around and eventually behind as Pep sought to, er, pep things up for the visitors, who were again looking to dominate, Jesus replaced by Aguero. City worked it well but Sterling's coup de grace was foiled by five players blocking his shot. De Brune picked out Sterling again but he failed to strike.

Mina fouled De Bruyne, getting booked, and it was a nailed-on set-piece for the visitors, Mahrez lashing it perfectly, low into the far corner, a brilliantly worked free-kick through a two-man wing wall — what an object lesson for Marco Silva.

Everton were almost level soon afterwards though when Sigurdsson played Calvert-Lewin in but the Everton forward's touch was poor and Ederson was quickly off his line to got a vital touch that diverted it wide for a corner that Digne delivered poorly, straight to the first defender.

The Blues went close again from another corner a minute later, won by Kean, when Mina rose highest to guide a header towards the bottom corner but the keeper denied him and Calvert-Lewin couldn't react quick enough to get the rebound on target.

Everton kept up the pressure with Coleman surging down the right but Sterling got back to block the cross and Mina's header from the resulting corner dropped comfortably to Ederson.

Tom Davies came on for Schneiderlin for the last 10 minutes but Everton were carved open again as Mahrez twisted in the box, Aguero's cross-shot was diverted away by Pickford's foot but it fell to Sterling who hammered it in off the underside of the crossbar, bouncing just behind the line for the killer 3rd goal.

Davies was always looking forward and played a brilliant ball to Sigurdsson, whose control let everyone down. Davies then tried another tasty ball for Richarlison, slightly overhit with time running out. Kean did very well to hold up a difficult ball and win a late corner.

In added time, Pickford was drawn out by a deep cross and lost the challenge with Silva but there were only blue shirts defending with Pickford out of it when the cross came in.

The game ended with Richarlison ready to burst forward, Everton having given a good account of themselves overall, except where it really mattered in converting shots to goals.

Scorers: Calvert-Lewin (33'); Jesus (24'), Mahrez (70'), Sterling (85')

Everton: Pickford, Coleman, Keane, Mina [Y:70'], Digne, Schneiderlin [Y:59'] (81' Davies), Delph, Walcott (7' Iwobi (74' Kean)), Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin.
Subs not Used: Lössl, Holgate, Sidibe, Tosun.

Manchester City: Ederson, Walker, Otamendi [Y:50'], Fernandinho (C), Zinchenko, Gundogan, Rodrigo [Y:38'], Mahrez, De Bruyne (80' Bernardo Silva), Sterling (86' David Silva), Jesus (66' Aguero).
Subs not Used: Bravo, Mendy, Cancelo, Foden

Referee: Michael Oliver

Attendance: 39,222

Reader Comments (215)

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Ian Lloyd
1 Posted 28/09/2019 at 16:39:13
He's reverted back to type – what an absolute joker.


George Cumiskey
3 Posted 28/09/2019 at 16:42:26
Walcott playing?

Sack him now!!

Dave Williams
4 Posted 28/09/2019 at 16:46:53
What a team!

So not only does he select the Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin in midfield, he picks Walcott over Iwobi and Bernard??

This is either an inspired selection or he must be relieved of his duties after we get embarrassed for gross negligence. I really fail to comprehend this and just hope he has a master plan ready.

Peter Jansson
5 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:04:46
I hope I eat my shorts... but come on.. Schniderlin? Why? The same old stuff that will not work. I get the Martinez wibes here.
Peter Jansson
6 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:06:23
Where is Bernard?
Neil Lawson
7 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:09:33
Well no-one saw that coming. I doubt that you will find a single Evertonian who understands that team selection. However, lest Marco is a tactical genius cunningly disguised as a comic book villain (The Joker?) let us await the outcome before zapping him with dust-making lasers – just in case a miracle ensues.
Jeff Armstrong
8 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:13:34
Neil, it really would be a miracle for that line up to succeed, there are at least 7 out-of-form players selected, for all of them to come good tonight would be remarkable.

Silva is not playing the percentages here, we will end up with 6 forwards on at the end of a 0-3 drubbing. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Dave Williams
9 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:15:48
Jeff, looking at our selection, I'd be tempted to accept 0-3!!
I am really worried about this one and dearly hope I'm wrong.
Allan Board
10 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:16:02
Picked his mates again, I see.
Tony Everan
11 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:20:07
I would have had Sidibe, Davies & Iwobi instead of Coleman, Sigurdsson & Walcott.

Like Peter #5, I too hope I eat my shorts. But there's not enough bite in the midfield, we may get overrun partly because of that team selection.

Bill Gienapp
12 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:23:43
The Walcott selection is... interesting.

Meanwhile, the quality of City's squad (defensive injuries notwithstanding) is beyond ridiculous. Imagine having the luxury of leaving Sergio Aguero, David Silva and Bernardo Silva on the bench?

John Dingle
13 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:25:16
Has Silva not seen Steve Ferns xG analysis? Walcott has the worst xG of all the EFC strikers. I thought the point of players wearing GPS was to analyse their performance. We have gone back gut feeling in the 21st Century. Hopeless.
Neil Lawson
14 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:27:34
This game is a strange one. We desperately don't want to lose but any other result will be wholly unexpected. Hence, do we hope for a narrow defeat upon the back of a good performance and hope that provides optimism for the coming games?

The answer ought to be yes. Or do we join the gloom mongers who would accept a pasting in the hope that it might generate change?

Or might there be a miracle on Gwladys Street? Followed, probably, by a defeat at Burnley?

Annika Herbert
15 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:27:39
I sincerely hope that this line up proves me 100% wrong and we, at the very least, put on a damn good show. But I am so disappointed with that line-up, so many players in that team do not, on current form, deserve to be starting.
Steve Pickering
16 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:30:02
He obviously wants to get off to Portugal, picking a team like that!
John Reynolds
17 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:36:45
I guess that's a 'shut up shop' selection. Still a strange-looking side.
Neil Lawson
19 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:45:04
You couldn't write it could you? Really tough for Walcott. Get out of jail card for Silva potentially. Watch and wait.
Christy Ring
20 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:46:48
Back to his tried and trusted, unbelievable, can someone inform Mr. Silva, it hasn't worked up to now.
Ian Lloyd
21 Posted 28/09/2019 at 17:54:53
Silva, please go.
Ian Lloyd
22 Posted 28/09/2019 at 18:09:48
This is what annoys the fook out of me – why haven't we played with this intensity every game?!?!
Steve Pickering
23 Posted 28/09/2019 at 18:23:04
Great to see they've turned up this week – more of the same please. COYBs
Jay Wood

24 Posted 28/09/2019 at 18:30:00
Things looked ominous for the first 20 minutes which duly brought City a goal. What a player De Bruyne is. What a delivery for their goal.

But to our credit, we reacted well. Still too many times for me that having crossed the half way line with a chance to surge forward, we run the ball sideways or backwards.

If we had played with this intensity against the Blades last week, we would have won. City have too much quality to be kept quiet all game, but we are getting at their defence, we are creating chances and – who knows? – we may just break that gypsy curse of Silva's of never coming back to win a game having lost the first goal in 21 Premier League games.

Robert Workman
25 Posted 28/09/2019 at 18:39:06
Peter @6,

Bernard is ill.

Ian Lloyd
26 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:03:44
Why didn’t he save that?!??
Paul Armstrong
27 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:06:52
Set piece. Goal. Heard that before?
Christy Ring
28 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:12:42
Should have saved it, but before Mina gave away the free-kick, Iwobi should have got possession, but was ball-watching. Silva has to change it, we're way too deep, and with Schneiderlin on a yellow, why not bring Davies on?
Anthony Jones
29 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:21:55
Cowardly manager. Get rid.
Joe McMahon
30 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:28:54
Yes we haven't got a clinical striker at he club, including the on the coaching. But do we need also a different goalkeeping coach? Pickford is just awful. How many goals has he been responsible for this season already, nevermind previously? I just have no faith in him.
Stan Schofield
31 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:29:25
Good game. Did well against what is probably the best side in the world at the moment. Man City are at a different level to everyone else.

If only we could play with this fluidity and energy more consistently. Very frustrating.

Danny Baily
32 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:30:08
Pickford poor again. And very vocal.
Cristobal Aguirre
33 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:32:16
Well, at least today we showed more than the previous games. Of course it was impossible to take something here, but I appreciate the effort of Coleman, Mina and even Sigurdsson.

The priority now is get rid of the "manager". I am not speaking from the last result but from an objective point of view. As I said before you can gauge a manager among other things in how his team defend the set pieces and how his team attack.

In every topic, he has showed to be incompetent. So please get rid of him and move forward. Moyes till the end of the season and then Bielsa, Den Hag or Wegner.

Ray Jacques
34 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:33:07
Get Pickford out of the club. I don't like his attitude, Silva needs to sort it.
John Audsley
35 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:34:21
I'm hating this season, not as much as Koeman's last but I'm hating it all the same.

Coleman lead by example today but we are a woeful, pathetic side at times and Silva doesn't seem to have any ideas.

I've lost faith in him and Pickford laughing his head off as we nearly go 4 down tells you everything you need to know about the discipline at the club.

I'm sure Silva is happy we tried and only conceded 3 but this simply isn't good enough for this sleeping giant of a club.

Fucking hating this season.

Rick Tarleton
36 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:34:38
The one thing Silva got right was to substitute Walcott early on. I know he was having his best game since he signed for us, but tactically it was a shrewd move.

Pickford needs to add a little nous to his ability to stop shots, the second goal is a perfect example. As for his charge out of the goal and his inane grin afterwards, enough said.

Davies needed to be on from the start to add energy to the midfield.

Amit Vithlani
37 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:37:20
I don't doubt that Man City are so much better than us. But I watched the Sheffield Wednesday highlights and we coughed up a lot of chances. Palace & Watford the same. Today, no surprise, they cut us open many many times. We should have scored 3 but they could have had 6.

We were horrible defensively. Schneiderlin is a complete passenger, whilst Delph looks shagged trying to cover multiple spaces.

I had written off this game, but I am desperately concerned by so many things. Our goalkeeper's form; our dreadful defensive shape; Digne's complete inability to defend (so many goals are coming from his side); the misplaced loyalty to Schneiderlin; the poor use of Iwobi, poor use of Kean (right midfield? I mean really).

Silva's much-vaunted coaching is not apparent. I see players who are regressing since they joined us.

Depressing days.

Kevin Molloy
38 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:40:27
if only we weren't so shit at playing football, I could see a way out for us.
Kevin Prytherch
39 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:40:33
There were two turning points in that game...

1. Pickford’s woeful attempt at saving the free kick - there is no point lining up a wall if the only thing on your mind is moving behind it.

2. Silva’s reaction - Richarlison was causing Zinchenko no end of problems while Iwobi (whilst leaving Digne exposed a bit) found space and always looked a threat; so why remove (or move) our best 2 attacking threats? Although Sigurdsson played well, he should have been the man to make way for Kean.

I said in Pickford's first season he was directly at fault for too many goals and I still believe it. As good as a keeper he might be, the best keepers are meant to save you 15 points a season, not cost you 15 points a season.

Jay Wood

40 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:41:58
What is there to say?

Whilst much improved from last week, and as vulnerable as City are defensively, they are streets ahead of us in all other aspects of the game and all but one other team in the league.

There was more fight, more cohesion, and more chances created today than in most games this season, but you have to take them whilst you can because you know City will have their chances.

Their first goal followed from us first creating loads of space for Digne, but he hit a woeful cross over everyone's head. Immediately City counter, Digne is skinned near the half-way line by Mahrez who works it to De Bruyne whose one touch cross is a work of art.

For their second, I agree with Christy Ring that before Mina gave away the free kick, Iwobi should have easily cut out a stray crossfield pass. I wasn't at all surprised to see him give way for Kean. Iwobi looks good on the ball, but it appears obvious to me he is just not accustomed to fulfilling any defensive duties. He is often in no-man's land between two attackers rather than close to one of them. Doesn't react to runners. Doesn't fancy the physical stuff of mano-a-mano.

Once again a poor goal conceded from a free kick. The main wall too far over to our left. The one man 'wall' of Delph not keeping the ball out and a poor effort by Pickford.

So, much improved, some much better individual performances, but, being honest, a much expected defeat also.

Now, can we start putting points on the board against 'lesser' teams? Please..?!

Denis Richardson
41 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:42:15
Result expected. Personally I didn't think we'd even score.

Burnley away is a massive game for a certain Marco Silva. Lose that and it's surely P45 time with what would be 4 league defeats on the bounce and 3 to non-top 6 sides.

7 days to save your job, Marco – let's see if you're up to it. (I hope Brands and Moshiri have drawn up a shortlist already as I'm not holding my breath.)

Joe McMahon
42 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:43:18
Kevin @39 with you all the way. Pickford costs us more points than he saves. He should not be so arrogant, he's already been relegated once and in a relegation scrap again.
Kevin Molloy
43 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:48:43
if we stick with this joker for another 6 weeks, we're gonna have to go cap in hand to Sam Allardyce again, and I'm sure nobody wants that. Get rid of him now, so that the new guy at least has a chance of doing something this season rather than a salvage job.
Kevin Prytherch
44 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:48:52
Joe 42 - it showed his mentality when he screwed up near the end and was laughing about it. He's like a child in a man's body.
Andy Crooks
45 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:54:14
Better than last week, that's about it.

Glad to see Pickford being called out. He has the arrogance that top goalkeepers need but has done nothing to justify it. He is actually a liability who spreads nerves throughout the team.

He has escaped a lot of criticism by showboating, shouting, over-acting and generally looking the part, without being the part. Time for a spell on the bench.

Rob Marsh
46 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:55:48
Dennis # 41

That's my sentiment and many others I believe, but don't be surprised if he's still here at Christmas, they'll give him every (EVERY!) chance.

Christy Ring
47 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:58:26
Richarlison was giving Zinchenko a roasting, and who was on a yellow card, and Silva switches him, unbelievable.

I thought Coleman was a real leader and, in injury time, with City on the break, he passed out Delph, running back to defend, says everything about him.

I still believe playing two holding midfielders has us completely on the back foot. Hopefully Gomes is on the way back.

Paul Hewitt
48 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:58:27
At least plucky little Everton gave them a good game.
Andy Crooks
49 Posted 28/09/2019 at 19:59:32
I think Burnley will define our season. I believe we will win, well sort of. Defeat should see him gone.

In my view, nothing he did today regarding selection, set-up and subs suggested that he is any time soon going to show he is fit to be our coach.

Brian Keenan
50 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:04:20
Everton comes first and it's safety not a second rate team that gives its best. Everton must fire their head coach tonight. Burnley is hard enough than being in the bottom three. The team is a nonsense with no direction, if you look at the style of both teams, you tell right from the outset.

I spoke earlier through ToffeeWeb about who was supposed to be to blame. Everton won two on the bounce. The Everton Manager won't drop Michael Keane or Jordan Pickford, the Everton Manager is responsible for his own downfall.

Jay Harris
51 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:09:54
I don't know why were all picking on Pickford. He faces more pressure than most other Premier League keepers.

Our real problem is goals or lack of them. Man City have about 7 or 8 players able to score goals. We have 2 and they are both currently off form.

Can you ever imagine Delph, Schneiderlin, Tom Davies, Gomes or Gbamin to add significantly to our goal tally? That is the real issue and has been for years.

Denis Richardson
52 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:11:55
Rob 46 - that's my fear. Much as I don't like chopping managers so often I fear we'll stick with Marco until it's too late to achieve anything this season.

Our December fixture list is a nightmare so, if we're going to make a change, better sooner than later, so a new man doesn't have to face that straight away.

Wait till January and it'll only be about securing safety and nothing else so another season wasted.

We'll see what happens at Turf Moor.

Chris Gould
53 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:13:29
A pretty good effort, but we continue to look disjointed. There's very little fluidity and we are a shambles at the back.

Schneiderlin had a good game. He worked hard and passed very well. Some on here don't appear capable of assessing his performances objectively.

Davies was poor when he came on. All this 'energy' that he's supposed to bring was nowhere to be seen. His passing was wayward and he appears to be running with lead in his boots.

We desperately need to strengthen the midfield and a centre-back in January is an absolute must.

John Voigt
54 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:13:31
7 games played and 5 goals scored. It's just not good enough.

A goal difference of -6 after 7 games is also very poor.

We're 2 points above the drop zone. It's time to perform or it's a relegation battle.

Steve Ferns
55 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:14:11
Christy, Gomes is out until mid-October.

I thought we played well from our goal to Mahrez's free-kick. That's not to say I was happy with the game overall. But, considering the quality of the opposition, we showed grit and determination missing from the last few games and, for once, we didn't wilt.

Anyway, we need to take that level of commitment, determination and aggression into the Burley game. We need a win, but they're at home, they're above us in the league and we need to turn up with a game plan based on that ideal. In other words, let's not go there like we think we're better than them and try and knock it about and expect to blow them away. That'll play into their hands and allow them to counter us and expose our frailties.

I think Schneiderlin has really turned the corner now and is back to the player who won plaudits when he first arrived. He needs to cut out those reckless lunges and stay on his feet. Once he got booked, he was less effective and that's not the first time.

I thought Calvert-Lewin was great, but we messed around playing it from the back instead of trying to get it to his head from all set pieces. Richarlison also had another good game. Mina was solid at the back but Keane is still struggling, switching off for that first goal.

Finally, any update on Walcott?

Kunal Desai
56 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:15:07
Thankfully I didn't have to waste 90 minutes on this, social commitments this evening were far more enjoyable. Expected nothing less.
Rob Marsh
57 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:17:06
Denis # 52

For me, it's not even about winning anything this season, I'd like to bring in a good manager and give him the rest of the season to build something for next season while keeping us up at same time.

Rob Marsh
58 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:20:15

I've got no idea whatsoever who that manager is.

Pat Kelly
59 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:22:37
Silva has turned Everton into whipping boys. He doesn't have any answers. It will only get worse the longer he stays. We'll soon need someone to shore up the team to avoid relegation. We can't score and can't defend. Get your finger out Brands.
Jim Bennings
60 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:22:52
City didn't really even get out of first gear let's be honest.

It was a decent performance but the same old Achilles Heel problems let us down.

Allowing tiny man Gabriel Jesus score a header against a defence with two 6'4 centre halves.

Jordan Pickford again weak on a free kick ON HIS SIDE OF THE GOAL (think Wolves last season on the opening day and Spurs on the last day).

Calvert-Lewin scored but should have scored again to make it 2-2, that's the margins that you have to play with in this league anyway.

All said and done, we are going into October at 15th place, minus 6 goal-difference, and three defeats on the spin.

I stand by what I say, I think he has four games to save his job knowing Moshiri's trigger happy nature.

This season should be the one we are witnessing tangible progress; so far, I'm seeing none sadly.

Brian Wilkinson
61 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:25:14
Time and time again we lacked that clinical finisher, it's not rocket science: we need a top-class striker. How many more windows do we have to let close, before bringing a quality striker in???

Overall I thought we played well, I would certainly look at giving Lössl a run out to give Pickford a kick up the backside.

Allan Board
62 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:31:59
No surprise on the result. Ironic that today's opponents were in a similar state of flux for a couple of years after the money arrived. The difference being they learned quick, ditched Hughes, who was never up to it, offered the world to Mancini and let him discard and buy who he wanted in absolute ruthless fashion.

I just have this nagging doubt that Everton's money men are playing at it to get a profitable return and are not prepared to go big. It would explain why totally inadequate coaches are hired. They may cost a few million in wages and compensation etc, but they never really wield any power to demand more and are certainly not ruthless.

Koeman perhaps to a degree, but once Bill sold his striker from under him and gave him nothing to replace it, I think Koeman just got pissed off, lost interest, could perhaps see the club's fail-safe model, so held out for the dough. He was right about Barkley though!

Not seeing anything changing soon, other than another Yes-man ushered through the door to replace Silva, of course!

Now, where's my shovel to start the footings for our new stadium?

Bill Gienapp
63 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:33:28
An entertaining match, for the most part. Better overall performance. Definitely had our chances before Man City put it away with that third goal. The problem is, when you're taking care of business against the likes of Aston Villa, Bournemouth and Sheffield United, it makes it a lot easier to swallow a defeat like this.

The other issue is, we always look better against open, attacking sides like Man City. Will the positives translate against Burnley next weekend? Remains to be seen.

Oliver Molloy
64 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:38:04
The result is no surprise if we are all honest. The early kick off and the arseholes winning again with luck on their side was always going to motivate this Man City team even more - they just could not afford to lose today and they stepped up once again.

It's no disgrace losing against such a brilliant side and their manager, these guys are miles and miles ahead of Everton on the pitch and I hope they go and win the Premier League for a third time.

Even with a suspect defence you still have to beat the best keeper in the league, perhaps the world even.

Back to our level next weekend against Burnley !

Eric Paul
65 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:38:34
City work like they are the underdogs they win every loose ball and win every challenge for the second ball couple that with the quality they have and there is only one winner
Rick Tarleton
66 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:40:06
Pickford's shot-stopping ability is cancelled out by his lack of footballing nous. However, they showed spirit and despite being outclassed, managed to make a game of it. Silva keeps persisting in the Delph, Schneiderlin axis. it simply doesn't work. We needed Davies's energy.
Good decision by Silva to replace Walcott early on, I know he'd had the best game he's had since he signed for us, but a shrewd decision nevertheless.
Amit Vithlani
67 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:40:51
Its a game of opinions but for me, Schneiderlin is not doing his job. He was marking nothing and left De Bruyne with acres of space to whip the ball in for the first.

They attacked us and he is no shield. Delph was absolutely knackered trying to close down spaces.

This team cannot afford luxuries and Schneiderlin is clearly that.

Silva is in love with this no 6 pivot nonsense. Fundamentally, ours is doing nothing.

Looked up his stats. He is fourth on our list of tacklers according to Who scored. After Gbamin, Delph and Richarlison.

He is way down the passing stats too.

For once, stats seem to back up perception. His value is extremely limited.

Tommy Carter
68 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:52:27
It's okay. We have Kenny, Broadhead and Dowell etc to bring back. All great players.

How is Sheedy getting on at Derby?

Denis Richardson
69 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:52:37
Rob 57 - that’s funny. I’’m not expecting us to win anything either. The last time I got my hopes up was 6 years ago until Wigan put that to an end. 2009 before that. I’ll only get my hopes up winning something again if we actually manage to get to a final, without meeting City or them.

Right now all I ask is improvement year on year, fast paced football with goals and a bit of a swagger regardless who we play. The odd decent cup run and a realistic shot at top 6 with outside top 4. That too much to ask for having spent £200m odd in the last 15 months?

To get top 6 at least one of the ‘top’ clubs needs to have a poorish season. So far 4 of them have failed to fire on all cylinders. A couple will recover but I fancy two of Chelsea, Manu or Arsenal to struggle. THIS I think will be the season to take advantage and we’re already blowing it after just 7 games. That’s what really annoys me.

Should have taken minimum 5 points from three of the last four defeats. Hard to see us making up those points, especially given our poor away form. Early days but we already need something special to make top 8 never mind top 6. (Not expecting many points in Dec.)

Bill Gall
70 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:54:12
Allen when Shiek Mansur bought Man City it was the same as when Roman Abramovich bought Chelsea — there were no Financial Fair Play rules, and things have changed since Moshiri bought Everton.
Tony Hill
71 Posted 28/09/2019 at 20:55:42
In fact, we played some good stuff before and after we equalised. But then, as often happens, we stopped or backtracked. City were rattled and we gave them back the initiative and momentum.

You could see we were tiring about 10 minutes before their second but Silva was too slow to react. That is what worries me about him, his ability to manage the tempo and direction of games.

I thought Calvert-Lewin was excellent and Coleman, who I keep writing off, was an inspiration. What courage he has. I also think Schneiderlin had a good game.

Not a disaster by any means but we must develop hardness and consistency. Our fitness levels are also, to my eye, a bit of a concern.

David Pearl
72 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:01:29
Well, as per usual the first 20 odd posts reacting to a team sheet before knowing what the manager's tactics are... well insert your own answer here

If anyone noticed, or cares, we played 2 lines of 4 and looked to hit them on the break. And do you know what? For once, it was the players to blame and not the manager for our slow start. I can see why he started with Walcott. However, after a ball to the back of the head, he lasted less than a minute. So on came lwobi. We then looked like 11 deers in headlights and waited for Man City to score before we started to play ourselves.

Silva finally tried something different and l say well done Marco, at least you tried, it's about time though. I'd drop Pickford for a game so he can contemplate his performance, or else he won't learn. Keane was a bit iffy, then again they have some wonderful players. I thought Coleman did well, in fact most of them grew into the game as it went on.

Anyway, looking forward. We have Gbamin, Gomes and Kean all to come into this side... maybe Sidibe. Will these players be enough going forward to close the gap? I think perhaps they could. When confidence is high we can match anyone, and as those players come in and the rest improve... you never know.

Silva must find our identity, his identity with us if he is to survive (and leave us a piddly £10M richer). We've lost who we are. I really liked the football under Martinez and l recon he left something to build on. Unfortunately, we replaced him, not like for like but with a completely different style. That was Moshiri's biggest mistake.

I'm not convinced with Silva, and I have said that a lot. His subs a little better today, the formation tweaked... he actually had a plan today but the players took too long to start believing in themselves. I hope we build on this and it has to start next weekend. I'm not ready to write off yet another season, l hope Moshiri isn't either.

Danny Broderick
73 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:11:30
I thought we had a right good go at them – we can't really ask much more of the players and team, we had more shots on goal against City than any team City have faced under Pep.

There was a lot to like tonight. Mina was immense. So was Delph. We zipped the ball about with tempo – something I am often critical about, as we often take an age to get from one end of the pitch to the other. Richarlison was back to his best. Most of the rest of the team had good games without being outstanding.

For me:

Get Digne off corners! I'm amazed how such a good crosser of the ball can't beat the first man!!

Coleman needs to pass the ball! He had a great opportunity to slide a cross in, took too long and Sterling got back and blocked it. I lost count of the amount of times he dribbled into trouble. Just pass the ball, preferably forwards!

Pickford's concentration worries me. He is technically a good enough shot-stopper to have saved that free-kick. He just didn't seem set. Same when he came dribbling out. Just do the basics!

What pleased me was the players are clearly playing for the manager. We need to end any talk of sacking the manager – it's ridiculous and doesn't help anyone. Especially after the performance the manager and players have put in tonight.

Credit where it's due. We had a right good go at City and were unlucky to not take the lead in the second half. Besides, it's not Silva's fault Pickford let in Mahrez's free kick.

Let's support the players and manager, like we have got behind Kean.

Steavey Buckley
74 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:13:49
7 points from 7 games is relegation form against most of the opponents Everton could be expected to beat if they had a goal scorer. Even in today's game, two chances went begging when Calvert-Lewin could not score relatively easy chances.

So where do Everton go from here? Unless they start scoring regularly soon, Everton could be easily relegated... The person who is responsible for all of this is the manager, because he knew very well Everton were not scoring in most of their pre-season matches, but failed to make changes.

Tony Hill
75 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:21:33
Danny @73, I disagree with your assessment of some of the players but I think your overall view is correct. Very interesting stat about shots on goal.

Yeah, let's keep backing this man and the team despite our reservations. I think we'll reap the rewards.

Jim Bennings
76 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:27:17
I don't think we are that bad that we will be relegated, Steavey.

We will do a typical Everton season, probably start putting a few wins on the board in Spring when we are about 15 points behind 7th and there's little other than pride left to play for.

Despite another summer coming and going, very little in our problem areas has been rectified.

We still can't score enough goals, we can't be clinical when golden chances come, we still can't defend well especially crosses.

And we still can't win away from home, and to make matters worse the home form has dissolved into thin air in the space of 7 days.

Two games coming up against Burnley and West Ham are absolutely huge now.

Danny Broderick
77 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:32:13
Steavey (74)

“Unless they start scoring regularly soon, Everton could be easily relegated”.

Where to start with this. First of all, it's “we”, not “they” or “Everton”.

Secondly, a bit premature with the 'relegation' shout, don't you think? I know we have lost Zouma and Gueye, but we didn't struggle to score goals at the end of last season. Do you honestly think we are in danger of being relegated?

I am amazed if so, but then I shouldn't be. I've heard this a few years back about Martinez. Then Koeman. Then Unsworth. All of them were apparently going to get us relegated – that's how we ended up with Allardyce!

Deary me.

John Boon
78 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:36:05
As any normal fan, I am disappointed when we lose but, while this game did go as expected I did see effort and determination which was sadly lacking in most of this season's previous games.

While frustration at lack of points is understandable I still think Silva still should be given more time. Unless we have a magician in the wings I don't think any thing will really improve things merely by changing who is in charge. A new manager will have to start all over again. Besides, just who will we get at this time of the year?

Steavey Buckley
79 Posted 28/09/2019 at 21:45:26
Danny (77) last season, Sigurdsson was scoring goals and Richarilson looked like a goal scorer even Walcott chipped in with a goal or two. This season, we have no goalscorers and, to make matters worse, Gueye and Zouma are not here anymore to stop goals going in the other end. Yet, another season wasted even after 7 games.
John McFarlane Snr
80 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:01:54
Hi John [78] I'm not long back from the match, and as you rightly state there was an improvement in effort and determination.

I believe that criticism (by some posters) of individual players is a bit churlish. I appreciate that some fans are bitterly disappointed, but I sense a more mellow attitude from yourself. The counselling appears to be having a calming effect on you, keep up the good work.

In closing, may I add that, to lose a football match is never a nice experience, but there is no shame in losing to a team as good as Manchester City.

Paul Birmingham
81 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:06:21
At least today we put some effort in. The difference in class between the teams was well demonstrated today and shows how far Everton is off the best teams in Europe. City's attitude and professionalism is exemplary, and my only ilk with them is that they do professional fouls when under threat to break the play, and more than most, rarely get booked.

Calvert-Lewin, Coleman, Richarlison, Schneiderlin, Mina, and on the odd occasion, put a decent shift as did Delph, but I think today, we were outclassed in use of the ball and clinical finishing.

I hope Pickford takes a look at himself as I sense he believes he is not ever gonna be dropped. I think everyone in the ground, knew exactly where Mahrez's would place his free-kick. That turned the match and Calvert-Lewin's spewed effort, when, he should've used his left foot.

Going to Turf Moor, is always tough. Dyche, will smell blood and, as much as I want Marco Silva to succeed, I said preseason, let's judge after 10 games.

At this rate, we need a miracle, and being honest, some good signs today but like the weather, the wind blows it away. A tough few weeks ahead and much to prove on the park.

I hope Theo is ok, and let's hope for a speedy recovery to full health soon.

And like Kipling's poem... ”If”?

Tony Hill
82 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:08:02
I would like to say again how well Calvert-Lewin did tonight. One thing in particular: he often wins headers but no-one anticipates them, and that is very annoying. You can see the confidence seeping back into this young man.

On the general front, I was one who wanted to see the back of Martinez and Koeman sooner than most (though I wanted to keep Allardyce, in fairness) but Everton under Silva keep producing passages of play which fill me with hope.

We did it again tonight and outplayed them in parts. That takes some doing against one of the great sides, and I don't care that they had rested some players; every one of their men is world-class or close to it.

I know there are problems, some of them big ones, but let's hold our nerve.

Trevor Peers
83 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:18:40
We did OK today, I don't think anyone was expecting a victory but at least we showed a bit of spirit. I hope we don't piss about at Burnley strolling around for an hour before we show some urgency because if we do we'll be 2-0 down and well beaten, we have to show some fight right from the first kick.

I agree with Steavey, I wonder where the goals are going to come from? Last season, we had a couple regular scorers; this season, we have one: Calvert-Lewin. If Silva can't sort it out soon, he'll be in deep trouble – that's a certainty.

David Pearl
84 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:25:56
Goals are always the key to success. We will find our shooting boots sooner rather than later. I don't see why we should be that far behind City, after-all we have £20m + valued players in every position. Silva has to make us click... or he goes, so we can find someone that can. Would Martinez, Moyes, Koeman or Big Sam do any better? I reckon all of them.

We did okay today and looked better; however, if we don't beat Burnley we should do a whip-round for Marco Silva Xmas coat.

Alexander Murphy
85 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:35:45
Tony @82.

I agree that Calvert-Lewin put in a serious shift again tonight. He grabbed Coleman's goal, but so would Sharpy or Dunc in their pomp with fuckall remorse. Good lad, Dom. Right attitude.

And you are so right about him winning headers and NO-ONE follows up. A young Joe Royle had a similar problem, until other players were drilled to anicipate a nodded layoff!

Case in point: During the late second half, Calvert-Lewin won a ball out from deep defence and there was not a single Everton player within forty yards... Forty!!!

He held up the ball and looked for options. Heroic.

Calvert-Lewin at fault? Or his dawdling teammates? Why does the lad even bother? He gets fuckin pasted for lack of goals, yet he wins and retains possession in the centre, on the right, on the left. He presses.

Supply to him in the box? ... (tick follows tick follows tock)... Calvert-Lewin works his balls off, week-in & week-out, in a team that rarely shows any spine.

Yet, Calvert-Lewin isn't good enough... Yes, We do need goals. But if Calvert-Lewin is everywhere but on the receiving end in/around the box, how the fuck is he the problem? What is his "miss rate"?

My point is that this lad covers the park, works his socks off. Smiles every week. No shite on social media. Got great plaudits from all quarters for his performances during our better showings in the final third of last season. Number 9 = not enough goals.

It's like saying that a kid isn't going to grow up big and strong 'cos he spends ALL day out foraging when he should be eating more.

Calvert-Lewin is Everton's most improved player in the last 12 months. Sharpy was raw when he arrived from Dunfermline. Maybe Calvert-Lewin needs more time in Sharpe's Rifles!

Dave Williams
86 Posted 28/09/2019 at 22:35:48
They are a better team than us so the result wasn't that bad in itself- rather than expecting a positive result ( I know that is shameful but it's where we are) I was looking for signs of improvement. Pickford kicking was very good but at fault with the second goal and the least said about his losing possession towards the end the better.

Coleman MoM for me- excellent effort full of grit, fight and skill. Rest of defence were okay apart from Digne failing to beat the first man on corners. Delph excellent, Morgan decent and Sigurdsson ordinary — this guy is supposed to be our star player for God's sake!!

Calvert-Lewin excellent as was Richarlison they never stopped and caused problems. Iwobi was a bit quiet but Tom did well and I can't understand the poster above who claims his passing was crap as I can't recall him making a bad pass. Moise got stuck in and did fine.

Team selection was strange but at least Silva got some fight and determination from them. We look far more dangerous getting the ball forward quickly than we do with a pedestrian build-up. The result could have gone either way until their second goal which makes Pickford's error hard to take.

The thing that really bugs me about our predicament is that we have some very good players. The squad is packed with internationals – just look at the back 5 – and we should not be having to criticise the players for poor performances. The England keeper, the England centre-back, the Colombia centre-back, the Ireland skipper and the French left-back... where is the problem in getting them to form a tight defence? It is not a case of the players not being good enough because they are. The issue is no energy, no fight, no determination and no communication though some showed it in spades today.

Today's performance will keep the wolves at bay but he needs a win next week.

Ken Kneale
87 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:06:15
I refer to Andy Crooks's recent article on another thread, which I believe is correct, where he said we all have accepted mediocrity.

At which other top club would being beaten 1-3 at home feel like a reasonable result, simply because a bit more effort was put in that at the abject and spineless previous game (or games)? I include the manager and players in that remark. Which other so-called elite club would put up with this nonsense?

I agree, we are not relegation candidates; we are simply going nowhere. I feel as miserable and depressed as at any time in the recent past – top-six spending to produce bottom-six level performances is hardly the way forward.

I seriously doubt Marco Silva has the personality, character or know-how to transform us from where we are to where we aspire to be. He is not a winner or a transformational manager - even his post-match comments are now getting as repetitive as his team selections and tactics. I really do want him to do well simply because I want Everton to do well, but realistically, the climate is bleak.

Jim Bennings
88 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:07:41
The concern for me right now is every time we concede the first goal we not only fail to win but we rarely can even save a draw.

The last time we won from behind in the Premier League was December 2017, but we hardly come from behind at all to draw.

Dave Williams
89 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:14:53
Quite right, Ken. I was just relieved that we didn't get hammered and put in a reasonable performance but the club motto demands far more than we are delivering and most of us are lowering our standards accordingly.

It has to be stopped, and soon.

Mike Doyle
90 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:35:57
Could someone explain how, If so many of our players were so good tonight, we were beaten?

I don't question the effort - with Seamus the shining example – but we looked second-best in all depts and spent most of the 2nd half giving the ball away and inviting pressure.

Man City were a pleasure to watch – and we remain light years away from them.

Quick reality check: we are 2 points above the relegation zone. I would love to hear a statement from Mr Brands on why he allowed us to start the season with a weaker squad than finished last season.

Peter Mills
91 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:36:24
We gave it a good go, did about as well as we could expect.

All of which is pretty sad.

James Stewart
92 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:42:42
People praising Calvert-Lewin after that performance?! The mind boggles, missed his usual one-on-one with the keeper at a crucial time and followed that up by blazing wide from about a yard out! Ludicrous that he gets so many starts. Not good enough.
Chris Hockenhull
93 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:43:13
The overwhelming vibe in here tonight is that we were valiant, did well. Well, what were we up against? We gave it a go... we're not disgraced... unlucky at crucial parts of the game, etc, etc (I could go on and on but you get my drift).

So, when people question the psychology and mentality issues that are deep-set about this club and it's supporters — remember this.

Mick Davies
94 Posted 28/09/2019 at 23:54:18
We have some really good players, but they seem to be getting worse with every week. That has got to be the fault of the management and coaching staff.
Steve Barr
95 Posted 28/09/2019 at 00:03:11
I hope the players and management are not as complacent as some on here with regards to "not being relegation candidates".

That is just the attitude that will invite relegation!

Martin Berry
96 Posted 29/09/2019 at 00:07:52
We had as many if not more chances than them directly in front of goal, sometimes they go in sometimes they don't.
I thought Seamus was magnificent today.
We move on.
Ernie Baywood
97 Posted 29/09/2019 at 00:10:59
We gave it a decent go. That's the minimum standard though.

What I don't get is how City won the vast majority of second balls. If Everton gave everything then that wouldn't happen would it?

I think our team is too content to be second best. What makes City champions is far more than their technical ability.

That's before we even get into the tactics.

Tom Dodds
98 Posted 28/09/2019 at 00:14:39
There is such a broad base of Blue Bill acolytes within our ranks that I'm afraid we will always be stuck in 'their' (our very own supporters) mud.

The Red supporters know (got rid of Dalgliesh etc etc) that to fight their way forward in espescially this league,you take no fuckin prisoners.No Shit from inept managers and you rat out the 'Fakes' be it owners (GilletteHicks) and other hangers on.(Souness et al)

This club's supporters simply will not rally or organise or protest against the one true most malignant limpet of 'Arl Arsery' in its history.

There will be no fist of fury towards the top 6 untill the old guard is frogmarched down Speke boulevard to the airport or Burscough.

This shit needs to be sorted once and for all.

To those who disagree..Happy Groundog day to yer.

Mick Davies
99 Posted 29/09/2019 at 00:20:48
Tom @ 98 Very true; they sacked Benitez. If we had a manager that won us the CL, we'd name the new ground after him
Rob Marsh
100 Posted 29/09/2019 at 00:33:38
Tom # 98

Are you blaming BK for today's defeat?

Paul Gallagher
101 Posted 29/09/2019 at 00:49:53
Lot of protagonist to blame for our lack of ambition since 1987, not just BK!
Jay Wood

102 Posted 28/09/2019 at 00:58:12
Having gone out after the game, just got back to catch up on the posts.

It's interesting that the thread remains under 100 posts. After a loss, there is usually more venting and in no time at all 200 posts are registered, whereas victories tend to draw less of a post-match response.

Now I don't like it when Everton lose. Ever. No matter the opposition or the circumstances. But all opposition is not equal. The numbers and silverware Man City has won in recent years flag them up as an exceptional football team.

Yes, they won. But there was plenty in the game to give long-suffering Blues some cheer.

We will never know how Walcott's inclusion may have worked out, given his 1st minute concussion, so no point in dwelling on that one. But given some posters comments on both, my evaluation of players and manager is this:

Contrary to popular belief among some posters, the players are still playing for Silva. I feared Man City would swamp and overrun us in midfield and create chances for fun. That appeared to be the case in the opening 20 minutes in which they scored their first goal. But for the majority of the remaining 70, we responded well and both competed and pushed back hard. Nobody has created more chances or had more shots on City's goal this season than we did today.

Once the team settled down to play as Silva wished – bold by having his wide men and full-backs attacking simultaneously and attempting to get in behind City and work their centre backs – we went toe-to-toe with them and deservedly drew level. Evidence of this tactic was our goal, as when the second ball came back in the player to receive it (in an old inside right position) was none other than our captain and right full-back, Coleman.

That he didn't get the goal his play perhaps merited was down to Calvert-Lewin being more of many deny he is: a predatory finisher. Yesterday, on the thread about the U-23s 2-2 draw with City, a poster unfavourably compared him to Ellis Simms who headed a goal in from a rebound, claiming Simms showed more predatory instinct than Calvert-Lewin does. Simms actually did no such thing. He was in the box where he should have been in that attack and didn't even have to move to head in the rebound. Nowt to do with 'predatory instinct'. Calvert-Lewin most certainly DID need to shift to claim the goal.

But back to Silva, a decent performance from the manager. He got the team playing and his subs were balanced and timely.

Back to front, here is my player assessment.

Pickford: largely responsible for the key second Man City goal, in both setting up the defensive wall and in failing to keep the ball out. Other than that, he has continued in excellent form this season. His shot-stopping remains top drawer. His already good distribution has further improved. He has started coming out and claiming more high balls. He is communicating well with his defence telling them exactly what he wants.

I cannot understand the nonsensical claims some make about how many points he costs us per season, rather than acknowledge how many points he saves. Evidently, some have very short memories of key one-on-one saves he made in the Palace, Watford and Wolves games which won us points. Confident? You bet! Arrogant? Don't we want players who play with a swagger? His gurning that some complain about is just his defence mechanism of shrugging an error off, resetting and going again. He'll know full well he cocked up, but the strength of his personality shrugs it off quickly.

Coleman had a storming game and led by example. Yes, some of his runs spluttered out by taking on one too many or failing to get a pass off earlier. Yes, a couple of times in the second half he brought pressure on the defence by not clearing the ball out. But far more positives than negatives from Seamus today.

Digne. Still not hitting the standards of last season yet for me. Defensively not the soundest and offensively his delivery was poor today. Those two failings combined for City's first, overhitting a terrible cross from a wide open position. Immediately, City countered and he was skinned on the half-way line by Mahrez.

Keane. Unfairly IMO in commentary Gary Neville pointed the finger at Keane for their opening goal. The centre-back quite reasonably was trying to step out and catch Jesus offside. The quickness and quality of the single touch cross from De Bruyne would have exposed any defence. Other than that, he was solid. And, as he does every game but is rarely acknowledged, he plays the ball out from defence very, VERY well.

Mina. Other than a shanked clearance in the first half that kept the ball alive around our penalty area and the conceding of the free-kick for their second (a result of Iwobi failing to cut out a simple stray crossfield pass), he was fine and a threat from dead balls in their area. As yet, he hasn't connected with the power he is capable of in the opposition's area, but we need to be more alert to him winning headers which then drop in the 6-yard box. A fox in the box would be slamming them in.

Delph. Very industrious. A calm influence. A mix of good and wayward passing. He seemed to take a knock early on and continued and occasionally held his ribs for the rest of the game, possibly inhibiting him a tad.

Schneiderlin. Anathema to some, I know, but he had another good game. He held position well. Even got some good tackles in. Showed a good range of passes.

Sigurdsson. Again, anathema to some, but he also had a good game. Even Pep post-match mentioned how he caused City problems. Lovely move and pass into Calvert-Lewin in the 2nd half which Ederson was fortunate enough to unknowingly deflect wide with his shin.

Iwobi. Our poorest player on the day for me. He has looked good on the ball. He clearly is not yet up to speed on his defensive duties, often found between opposition players when they attack, covering neither one nor the other. Not in the least bit surprised he was the one to make way for Kean.

Richarlison. Excellent. Robust. Pacy. Threatening and as always time and again helps out in defence way back to his own penalty area.

Calvert-Lewin. Everton's MotM for me. Won pretty much every high ball that came his way. Showed great hold-up play, good awareness of the possibilities around him, good pace and aggression. And he scored his fourth goal in his last 3 starts. Needs closer support to take fuller advantage of his knock-ons and lay-offs.

Davies. Hardly time to make an impression, but he DOES look to play forward, rather than sideways or backwards.

Kean. A curate's egg. Great close control, wriggling runs and chasing down. Some very loose passing having got himself some space. Still raw and still too early to start him yet.

Another defeat adding to a poor start to the season, but a much more encouraging performance than the tepid surrenders to the likes of Villa, Bournemouth and the Blades that we have endured to date.

But 'improved' performances are not enough. Wins ARE needed.

Mike Doyle
103 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:00:32
For those impressed by today's efforts, the late Sir John Moores would have been hailing a taxi (or calling a Uber). My God, how expectations have fallen.

One suspects Mr Klopp's current employers wouldn't have been best pleased either.

Danny Broderick
104 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:13:14
I honestly don’t know what some fans expect. Today, we played a team that has amassed pretty much 200 points the last 2 seasons. This was as tough a match you can get in world football at the moment. The subs they brought on were Aguero, David Silva and Bernardo Silva!

We gave them a hell of a game. We should have taken the lead in the second half with chances for Mina and DCL. Their keeper was outstanding. Ours was badly at fault for their second. That was probably the key difference today. Yet there are some people mentioning the word ‘relegation’ for us, others saying our standards should be higher and others saying we need to get rid of the manager.

It’s one thing saying these things if we drop points against Villa and Sheffield United. But we do not have a divine right to win every game of football we play, especially against top drawer opposition like City.

There were lots of positives today, but some people just can’t see it.

Kevin Prytherch
105 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:16:30
Jay - 102 - that was me commenting on Simms, saying he was in the right place to head the goal in and it's something that Calvert-Lewin has not done consistently in his career. I also said that I think Calvert-Lewin is a vital player and hope he goes on to get 12-15 goals a year.

Today, he showed that instinct to get into the box at the right time. The one on one that Ederson saved was unlucky – the ball grazes Ederson's leg for a save. Perhaps a £50million pound striker would have got more lift on the ball, but for me that could just as easily have gone in as it was saved. The rebound off the corner came at him at such speed that he couldn't adjust, however, the Calvert-Lewin of last season wouldn't have been following it up in the first place. If it rebounds half a yard to the right it's a goal.

Just because Simms didn't have to move for his goal doesn't show a lack of instinct, it shows that he has that innate awareness to be in the right place. On today's game, Calvert-Lewin has improved immensely in trying to anticipate where he should be.

Is that 4 goals in 6 starts this season? Not bad for a Championship player!!!!

Tony Twist
106 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:18:12
I am not convinced by Silva and not convinced by Pickford. I think it shows how poor the choice of English goalkeepers are with Pickford being England's No 1. He concedes a lot of goals, now Silva as a coach is dogshit.

Yes, the defence is poor but Pickford just looks like a schoolboy goalkeeper. It showed today with the second goal, that is his side (of the goal) to defend, he fails to, we had a goal-bound shot but what happens, Man City's goalkeeper saves it and Calvert-Lewin can't convert the rebound.

There are just too many goals conceded by Pickford both for Everton and his previous club. Silva has to realise that if you are conceding two or more goals a game, you ain't going to win many. Defence has to be watertight or we are wasting our time. Time for Silva to go.

Danny Broderick
107 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:19:15
Jay (102)

Nail on the head mate.

Paul Gallagher
108 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:25:57
Where is the positives from today, our last 4 games against City, we lost by 2 clear goals. 3 out of the last 4 games we lost against city 3-1. Surely another example of Groundhog Day with Silva. If we lose next week to Burnley 3-1 what positive can we take from the game?
Bill Watson
109 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:36:23
Mike #103

Fully agree. No one really expected a win, today, and despite losing 1-3 most players put in a good shift. However, the occassional good shift simply isn't good enough.

City is the first of the, so called, Top 6 we have played. Most of the others will probably finish in the bottom half of the table but even after such a relatively easy run of fixtures we have 7 points from 7 games and THAT is relegation form.

We have what I consider to be the best squad of players for many years and, even allowing for injuries to Gomes and Gbamin, 7 points is nowhere near good enough.

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the manager and I'm afraid Silva falls way short of what we should expect.

Dave Bowen
110 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:36:44
Alexander & #85. Calvert-Lewin is certainly our most improved player, unfortunately (IMHO) he is not a natural finisher. If, as you say, there was not another EFC player within 40 yards of him, then surely Silva's system is at fault. He'd be perfect for 4-4-2, not that anyone plays that anymore.

Steavey @ # 79. Your post is spot on mate. Add to that, no proven Premier League centre-forward, only a lad with a load of potential that hasn't scored yet & no centre-back back-up when every man & his wife knew Zouma wasn't coming back. This is what'll get him the boot rather than the results.
Danny Broderick
111 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:44:08
Paul (108),

Man City have probably been the best team on the planet the last 2 years and have earnt almost 200 points in the Prem. They have raised what was already a high bar. Surely you are not suggesting it is unacceptable that we have lost our games against them these last 2 seasons?

We stood toe to toe with them today and gave them a good game.


Strong performances of Mina and Keane, Delph, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin. Decent performances from most of the rest of the team.

Much better attacking play today. Much more tempo. We had more shots against Man City today than any team in the Premier League since 2015, the most City have faced under Pep. Kind of confirms we had a right good go at them. City's keeper was a contender for Man of the Match.

Did you not see any positives today?

Ian Riley
112 Posted 29/09/2019 at 01:50:40
The reality of our situation was there for all to see today. Individual errors cost us points and today was no exception. Today, facing a side full of confidence and movement to match, we lack both but we tried to take it to Man City and had them on the ropes at times.

The situation is this: forget today. Burnley next week and that's what matters. We are 15th in the league table!

Tony Hill
113 Posted 29/09/2019 at 02:00:56
Ernie @97, you make an important point about winning second balls. We don't do it anywhere near often enough. Of course, we miss Gueye, but the problem became especially apparent in the second half when we started to drop off and tire.

Man City exhaust most teams over the course of a game but I still worry about our conditioning and short distance speed over 90 minutes. For several seasons now, I have looked at the physical performance of our lads against many of the rest and I am not convinced that we are athletic enough at this very highest level.

We have fitness and nutrition coaches and I assume they are doing their job, but tiny margins count for a lot and we always look a bit short.

John Pierce
114 Posted 29/09/2019 at 02:10:38
Another loss, the same system, the same staid picks which are major part of the problem.

The on the dot changes (enforced injury aside) when for the only time in the game we had some momentum. To take Iwobi off was criminal. The manager is bewildering.

We had chances, and sadly didn't have the quality to take them. Quite annoyingly, we played with far more tempo and ball pace than at any point this season. Some say green shoots, I say several players didn't want to get embarrassed (so looked after themselves), yet couldn't find that level of intensity against the fodder we've played to date. Absolute shithouses.

The team was set to counter and, well, in parts it did okay. We made mistakes for the 1st & 2nd goal, Digne should have taken the professional foul, he sold himself and with Delph exposed, it left De Bruyne open. Mina produced a needless challenge for the free-kick, and Pickford will think he should have gotten something on it. It seemed to beat him for pace.

One last note for Morgan Schniederlin, in an action similar to Bournemouth he committed instead of funnelling De Bruyne down the wing. He took him out, however, clearly tried to hurt him. He should be nowhere near this team for so many reasons.

This might be a harsh post but maybe let's not blow the most benign set of fixtures we've had in ages, in a season were so many teams are in flux. The chance is now — not Year 3 of an effing 'project'.

An absolutely shocking state of affairs.

Michael Kenrick
115 Posted 29/09/2019 at 02:27:49

"We had more shots against Man City today than any team in the Premier League since 2015."

Surely one of those nonsense statistics that mean nothing without context. In this case, so many of those shots were far too close to Ederson, meat and drink, or flew off target.

While we put up a decent challenge at times, they simply outclassed us with their finishing — the only stat that matters worth a damn.

Tony Hill
116 Posted 29/09/2019 at 02:40:58
Surely it shows that we got through their defence often enough to get shots off, accurate or otherwise, and more so than any other side. How is that nonsense?
Tony Hill
117 Posted 29/09/2019 at 02:51:29
PS Danny @73 says it was shots on goal. I have no idea whether he's right on the stat but it's not just shots.
Jay Wood

118 Posted 29/09/2019 at 03:27:14
It always amuses me when posters come on berating fellow Blues for 'accepting mediocrity' and not holding the club to higher standards as a key cause as to why we are not at the standards they demand.

From this thread alone see posts @ 87, 89, 93, 98, 99 and 103 as examples.

Curiously enough, I've never seen a poster making such claims inform us of their own exemplary behaviour we should all follow which is making a difference beyond their own posturing to a few score people on TW.

Any takers...?

Henry Lloyd
119 Posted 29/09/2019 at 03:46:56
Jay wood @ 118, let's have it right, Everton were woeful based on what we have paid for that team.

We certainly should demand and expect more that we are getting and the solution is very very simple!! Sack Silva!

Dick Fearon
120 Posted 29/09/2019 at 04:11:07
My flaws are of scarce interest to anyone other than my wife whereas a player missing or scoring a sitter could have dramatic consequences to his own club's promotion or relegation hopes plus have a knock-on effect for many other clubs.

I have railed for many years against acceptance of anything less than our dear neighbours would tolerate.

Are the gobshites more hard-nosed than us?

Do they have more football nous than us??

Would they support or run out of town the failures of Silva???

Steve Brown
121 Posted 29/09/2019 at 04:34:10
Tommy @ 68, I take my hat off to you.

You managed to get your hatred of young players in despite those named not even being at the club at present.

Steve Brown
122 Posted 29/09/2019 at 04:52:25
I thought that was a big improvement on previous displays this season. Apart from the top two, I would suggest that our performance would have been good enough to earn a win against most teams.

No team in the Premier League – Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd – are anywhere near the standards of Liverpool and Man City and won't be for a while. It is pointless to keep raising this as some badge of honour by those who claim they judge the team to a higher level of expectation. They don't, so give the pontificating a rest.

There remain glaring weaknesses in the team, none more so than the inability to buy a replacement for Lukaku TWO YEARS after he left. We are one injury away from being even more vulnerable in central defence and our midfield lacks any creativity. That won't be fully remedied even when Gomes and Gbamin return.

My preference is that we switch to a midfield three, bring in Davies for the next game, and give him licence to make attacking runs when the opportunity presents. But, I doubt Silva will do it, in which case play Iwobi in place of Sigurddson. He improved yesterday, but had little overall effect on the game.

Burnley is a massive game for Silva. Another weak capitulation and his days might be numbered. His performance this season has been mystifying – repeated mistakes in selection, tactics and substitutions. Yesterday, though, he largely got it right against what is simply a brilliant team. Kevin De Bruyne, bloody hell!

Paul Kelly
123 Posted 29/09/2019 at 05:58:06
Jay @ 118, I'll take.

As to the posts you mention, it's an opinion, obviously, but why don't you;

"Curiously enough, inform us of your own exemplary standards we should all follow which will make a difference beyond your own posturing to a few score people on TW".

So they don't make the same mistake in the future.

Dick Fearon
124 Posted 29/09/2019 at 06:00:37
A few years ago, for a tiny fraction of his current value, we had De Bruyne on our shopping list. But the club was living on borrowed money and Bill Kenwright's shonky board members did not help.

Can anyone vouch for that or does my old memory let me down? ... Again!

Annika Herbert
125 Posted 29/09/2019 at 06:31:26
Steve @122, you made exactly the point I have been trying to get across for months regarding Sigurdsson. For a supposedly creative Number 10, he simply does not influence the game enough.

As Jay @102 quite rightly said, he did put in an improved performance yesterday, but he still does not do enough to warrant being a shoo-in every week. He simply is not a top Number 10 any longer.

Overall, a great improvement in fight and effort from the team in general, but nothing but a win at Burnley will do next for Silva.

Jack Convery
126 Posted 29/09/2019 at 07:55:30
If Marco goes will he have a leg to stand on when his tenure at Goodison is examined. Would he point out the following:

An experienced centre-forward capable of scoring at least 15 goals a season was never bought so I had to try and get the best out of two kids, one of whom is 19 and living abroad for the first time in his life, with my back ups being Tosun and Niasse.

The best centre-half I ever had was Zouma and he was on loan. The best Midfielder I had at my disposal – Delph – cost £8m, whilst the best Midfielder I had before him – Gueye – was sold for £25m as it was good financial business, leaving me with Schneiderlin ffs and Gbamin – who was bought but I never got to see him really wear the shirt.

My back-up keeper was a free transfer from Huddersfield who were relegated the season before we took him on. Bernard who has scored 2 goals was a free transfer. In my first season, I had a midfielder on loan - Gomes - who was crap at Barca of all places and who I coached back to his best form.

The spine of the team when I got my cards was the mercurial Pickford, Keane – who is an average centre-half and needs Zouma with him, Schneiderlin, the mercurial Sigurdsson and, for the most part at centre-forward, Calvert-Lewin.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, remember.

Alan J Thompson
127 Posted 29/09/2019 at 07:59:21
Jay (#118); Are you suggesting that we boycott matches, with or without a refund return season tickets; write letters to Messrs Moshiri, Kenwright, Brands and Silva? Or should we mix with other supporters and exchange views in person or on places like ToffeeWeb to see if it shows the flaws in or generates support for a viewpoint?

Perhaps we should put the boot on the other foot and ask what support do you show from Brazil other than watching on TV, a suggestion you have criticised as some form of match going snobbery and like your #118 is a completely unfair question and/or assumption and probably far less amusing. Having a point of view, an opinion on an opinion, doesn't devalue because you haven't taken to the barricades.

Perhaps it is less berating of other fans and more an expression of exasperation with on-field performances over an extended period of time.

Jack Convery
128 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:02:12
One other thing: I reckon total commitment, 100% effort and a passion to play for the shirt are all prerequisites as far as I am concerned when a player pulls on the Royal Blue of Everton. It was good to see it today but will it be in evidence against Burnley?

On another point, apparently Iwobi may have the same bug as Bernard, which would explain why he tired so quickly and did not have the energy left to cut out the crossfield pass that led up to the free-kick for their 2nd goal, which Pickford should have saved.

Ken Kneale
129 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:04:21
To say how good Man City are is simply stating facts. The problem is many on here are now accepting we are not as good and looking at other games to gain points. How defeatist is that?

We could and should with better management have been right up with City but 30 years of poor directorships, managers who accept top 6 as a good season (Moyes) or a succession of ridiculous appointments such as Walker, Martinez, Allardyce etc has reduced us to what we see now.

As has been said, Mr Moores would have the taxi ordered and shown personal leadership himself. I see no evidence of that now. What I do see is acceptance of mediocrity and complacency

Bobby Mallon
130 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:05:07
What is it about midfielders and not doing their defending and helping out the left- or right-back when we are defending? FFS, can the manager get the whole squad together and tell them that Coleman and Digne need bloody help when we have lost the ball and bench any player who does not fulfill his defending duties.

Also, Pickford needs dropping ASAP — I don't care if he's England's Number 1, he's a liability, and costing us points, not gaining them.

Bobby Mallon
131 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:22:52
Jack Convery @126,

I'm sorry but Silva is the manager and knew the deck of cards he had to play with. The problem is Silva has players who are not suited to his style of play. What he should be doing is changing his style of play to suit his players.

Stop with zonal marking, stop with high line defending stop playing strikers out wide. Start playing with two strikers, start playing deep and hit with pace; we have the players to do it.

Bobby Mallon
132 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:37:54
Danny Broderick @104, people only mention relegation because our away record is complete shite and we play two out of our next three away.
Mike Connolly
133 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:39:21
Everyone saying Man City have quality players but, from what I saw, it's not only quality, it's work rate. On one occasion, we had a breakaway, two attackers going forward. It came to nothing because City got 5 players sprinting back to cover it.

We may not have quality but we need to get a lot fitter than we are. We appear to be slower than most teams... so what the fuck is going on at Finch Farm?

Brian Porter
134 Posted 29/09/2019 at 08:46:31
Silva has to go. Why take Iwobi off? At least he tries to move the ball forwards. For what we paid for him, why only two starts? And don't forget he has two goals for us already.

Whenever he and Moise Kean have been on the field together, they've linked well and tried to make things happen. So what does Silva do? Takes Iwobi off and sends Kean on. Kean needs someone like Iwobi to get the best out of him. Silva's subs just baffle me. Like for like with no tactical awareness or changes.

We could be in the bottom three by this time next week. It was never this bad under Koeman and they got rid of him, sharpish.

And starting Walcott and Schneiderlin? The man is clueless in my humble opinion. How many of us have repeatedly said about the two of them, 'what do they bring to the team?' Answer... Not a lot.

How many chances does Silva get? He needs firing before we're dragged into the relegation fight. We're going backwards with this clown in charge.

Ian Riley
136 Posted 29/09/2019 at 09:32:07
Brian #134, we are in a relegation fight. The most concerning stat under Silva is the team has never come from behind to win a match in the Premier League. Either the belief in the team is not there or he cannot make substitutions, tactical changes to influence the result.

Phil Rouse
137 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:10:48
Every morning I wake and open the BBC website, hoping to read that this nightmare is over and we have finally sacked this useless manager. Please make it happen before we are truly dragged into a relegation fight.
Paul Smith
138 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:18:53
A club that sells or loses its best players without replacing them will struggle.

And so it comes to pass.

Jack Convery, your post makes sense but the difference in work rate was clear to see yesterday. You can't buy that!

Fraser Auld
139 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:19:10
Brands's strategy this summer is coming under the microscope.

He's looking longer-term with the striker situation and didn't want to bring in someone to block Calvert-Lewin's progress. Presumably hoping Calvert-Lewin and Kean together would contribute goals, albeit maybe not quite as many as a top top striker would do. This approach might work, it might not, maybe we'll be lauding it in a few years when both Calvert-Lewin and Kean are looking like top Premier League strikers.

If that was going to be his conscious decision, then surely all the more important he added goals from other areas of the pitch. We relied so heavily on Richarlison and Sigurdsson last season.

Silva said a couple of times at the start of the window that he wanted to add a left-footed winger who could play on the right-wing. I think to accommodate the plan to develop Calvert-Lewin, Silva's ideal was to move Richarlison back to left-wing and add someone with a similar goal output to the right-wing. That way, you've maybe got 35/45 goals in the three players playing behind Calvert-Lewin and Kean.

Ultimately, we added Iwobi. That left us still massively reliant on Richarlison and Sigurdsson for goals and there still aren't enough goals in the rest of the team. Iwobi, and I'm not having a pop at him, he's a decent player, looks like someone we could get as opposed to someone that we really needed to improve the team.

Issues in midfield and defence are also well cited. Marco Silva isn't blameless but that wasn't a good summer transfer window and that's on Brands.

Dave Williams
140 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:20:55
Jay #102, the best analysis of the thread for me. I'd agree with all of that.

Digne misses Bernard and I'd restore that partnership ASAP. I am no fan of Sigurdsson or Schneiderlin but Sigurdsson wasn't bad yesterday (not good but better than he has been) and, bearing in mind Morgan's limitations, he did well.

I am not a Silva fan and couldn't figure out why we went for him – a bit like when we were so keen on buying Sigurdsson really – but to be fair he has been without two of his first-choice midfielders in Gomes and Gbamin. Gomes would have been invaluable yesterday in keeping possession and I wonder how teams from the past might have fared without Reid and Bracewell, or Kendall and Harvey??

The centre-backs have been much maligned but I think there is a partnership starting to come together there. Many said they would be ripped apart by City but they stood firm. We need the full-backs to find their form as Seamus did yesterday and play consistently well. Calvert-Lewin, despite what some ridiculous posts contend, played very well, won everything in the air and was a threat throughout. Richarlison worked his socks off, seems to have pretty much stopped rolling around, and he looked dangerous. I'm sure the selection of Walcott was so Richarlison could cut inside from the left on his shooting foot.

I was disappointed in Iwobi and expected more from him but Sigurdsson occupies the same areas that he likes to move into and he seems unsure whether to stick to the touch-line or play inside left.

Plenty to work on for Silva but we scrapped and tried and it was only when the third goal went in that we looked beaten. Burnley is a big game – we must build on this now as, if we don't, Silva will be in big trouble.

Kevin Molloy
141 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:31:12
As well as not securing the centre-back or the free-scoring forward, it is slightly concerning that, other than cut-price Delph, none of our new signings were either fit enough or deemed good enough to make the team yesterday. Suggests the recruitment in the Summer is nowhere near of the same quality as the year before.
Ray Roche
142 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:54:30

I thought Moise Kean looked good in his all too brief cameo.

Rob Dolby
143 Posted 29/09/2019 at 10:55:40
We gave it a good go yesterday and came up short.

For good periods we looked a threat but didn't have the quality in the final third to get the goal. The Mina header and Calvert-Lewin though-ball being two good chances.

The substitutes highlight the difference in both squads. We bring on Davies, Kean and Iwobi. They bring on Bernardo Silva, David Silva and Aguero obviously rested due to the Champions League games.

Pickford should have done better for the 2nd but also made some decent saves and distributed the ball very well. Calvert-Lewin has to start. He enables us to play the ball forward sooner.

I thought Coleman was MotM. He is still our best right-back by some way. Since his return from injury, he keeps proving the doubters wrong and long may it continue.

Schneiderlin is another who has played consistently well since the Gomes injury at the end of last season and not got the recognition for it.

Roll on Saturday and Burnley.

Frank Crewe
144 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:04:12
We gave them a run for their money. I'll give them that and we had some decent chances. But we didn't start to play until after they scored.

Once again I think the 4-2-3-1 line up was wrong. Their defence was shaky and a 4-3-3 with Kean, Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison up front would have put more pressure on it. But once Silva tried to play safe with two defensive midfielder's. His caution and resistance to risk will be his undoing.

We forked out £40 million quid for Richarlison, £36 million for Kean and £35 million for Iwobi yet Silva can't come up with a system that can start them all at the same time. Only Richarlison, who I think Silva will pick no matter what, started yesterday and only the injury to Walcott saw Iwobi come on.

I would also point out we spent £35 million on Mina who only gets games because we didn't get Zouma. So we spent £100 million on three players the manager barely uses or uses because he has no choice. It's ridiculous and makes a lie of the idea that there is cooperation between Silva and Brands when it comes to recruitment.

Silva needs to use our best players or we have to find a manager who will.

Derek Knox
146 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:08:16
While we played slightly better yesterday, I still think we need to change the manager as soon as possible. Man City were more committed in defence (rarely threatened) when needed and quicker in their build-up play.

It's a good job City didn't go up another gear or two, mind you, they didn't have to. Why did he not start Iwobi? Then to bring him on as sub for Walcott, and then re-sub him again is just madness, that will do a lot for Iwobi's confidence. I have always thought of subbing the sub, unless injury dictated, was a total embarrassment to the player.

Before we go even deeper into the relegation places, get rid of this stubborn, hasn't-got-a-clue idiot.

Derek Taylor
147 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:25:33
Silva will get more time because quote: "We can't keep on changing our manager." Additionally, I guess Brands who signs the players will take some responsibility and will advise delay in pulling the chain.

Yesterday, I read on an on-line Press Review that Moshiri is so concerned by the situation that "he has asked Bill Kenwright to return to a greater supervisory role at the club". There follows a report of a recent mini poll which had a 60% vote for the return of Davey Moyes!!

God help us all. Things really are bad !

Kevin Molloy
148 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:42:18
I do find it a bit strange that people cite the Moyes era as something to threaten us with when we complain about now. My god, he built a cracking side on effectively a £10 million a year net spend. We are still enjoying the benefits of his recruitment today and he left six years ago. He bought players for buttons and literally increased their worth ten-fold.

And to put it into context, if we had been able to keep him during the Moshiri era, we could have had our new stadium built now and wouldn't have needed any loans, the money Koeman alone blew could have built us well over half that stadium.

Annika Herbert
149 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:46:35
Kevin @148, unfortunately Moyes would never have been able to break that so-called glass ceiling into the top 4. I think he proved that with his efforts at Man Utd. He did well with what he had but was always left wanting when it mattered the most.
Kevin Molloy
150 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:49:00
Annika, yes he did fail at that. But look how much it cost City to break that particular barrier. If I say a billion pounds, I don't think I'm overstating the investment.
Oliver Molloy
151 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:51:45

Do you think Brands will come out and say "I take some responsibility"? – absolutely no chance of that happening.

What the club or he may do is spin it like that this deal or that deal didn't come off.

No matter, the buck stops with Brands to deliver what was crucial to Silva and that, as we all know, was to replace Zouma with an equal, if not better, and get us a forward to put the ball in the back of the net.

Gana replacement is out so we all probably won't know the story until maybe next season.

I am not at all angry at yesterday's result, it is what was expected if we are all honest, as I said yesterday, we are back to our level against Burnley next week; if we don't win that, I might be a little more angry!!

Derek Taylor
152 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:55:02
I don't disagree, Kevin. He was a man of his time whose credibility, sadly, has been reduced by failure in every job he has taken since leaving us.

I was always a great respecter of the manager but, like so many TWers, can see nothing but grief, were Moshiri to pin his faith in Moyes and Kenwright for the future.

Kevin Molloy
153 Posted 29/09/2019 at 11:56:51
Derek, yes I'm not advocating going back for him now, he's not the same, doesn't have the same hunger, no doubt (although he did a pretty good job at his last position).
Tommy Carter
154 Posted 29/09/2019 at 12:18:17
This is relegation form. Make no bones about it. Three defeats on the spin.

4 in total. Defeats to Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd and Villa.

Teams such as Arsenal, Tottenham, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc still to come before we even reach the halfway point in the season.

Mourinho is without a club. We are without a plan.

Go and get him. Let's Instill a defensive solidity and a winning mentality.

James Hughes
155 Posted 29/09/2019 at 12:43:18
Kevin. football is all about opinion and in your post @148 there is absolutely nothing I can agree with.

I never saw Moyes increase a player by ten-fold in the 11 years he was there. I am open to suggestions though.

As for 'if we had been able to keep him' the guy ran down his contract once he knew his buddy Alex was pimping him to their board. Just remember his cringe-worthy quote of going to see him wearing jeans, oh the shame of it.

As for the nonsense of the stadium, do you think Dour Dave would be on the phone to Farhad, going: "£200 million!, What? I don't need that, Farhad. Put half in an ISA for the new stadium, rainy day and all that."

Moyes was a lucky man to have stayed 11 years with no pressure, choking every time he got near glory. Him and Boy's Pen Billy created the 'plucky little Everton' tag, 'knives to a gunfight', 'glass ceiling' bollocks. He could have created a great team in that time; he didn't, he went short-term, season to season.

Silva may not be the answer but I am damn sure Moyes isn't or never was.

Martin Mason
156 Posted 29/09/2019 at 12:43:34
Derek @147, but it could be that the presence of Bill Kenwright is the problem, not the solution?
Ken Kneale
157 Posted 29/09/2019 at 13:04:20

I am equally sure Moyes is not the man – he created and enjoyed the tag he gave himself because he was smart enough to realise it took the pressure off him in terms of scrutiny. He was extremely fortunate to last 11 years without a sniff of winning – no manager before him would EVER have had such a luxury position at the club.

He seriously bottled it and kept the brakes on his team at crucial games and cost the club dearly in my view – and his exit strategy showed his true colours, as did his behaviour the summer after leaving. Those since have been dammed poor in line with the general running of the club but rose-tinted spectacles on his achievements are barmy.

Kevin Molloy
158 Posted 29/09/2019 at 13:04:55
I think you can make the argument, James, that the following all increased their value ten-fold:

Stones, Cahill, Arteta, Jagielka, Lescott, Coleman and Baines. There were also others whose value increased by at least £10 million, such as Fellaini.

I'm not saying he was perfect, but his era compares extremely favourably with now, what with the top six finishes, and the whole "not blowing £300m" scenario.

John McFarlane Snr
159 Posted 29/09/2019 at 13:05:36
Hi Derek [146],

While I respect your right to express your dissatisfaction with Marco Silva as manager of Everton, I feel that resorting to personal insult is unnecessary and disrespectful.

It's my belief that, if fans disagree with a manager's team selections or tactics, they should register their disapproval in a polite and respectful manner.

Brian Murray
160 Posted 29/09/2019 at 13:36:20
If we even contemplate getting Moyes back, I'm finished with football and Everton until the usual three years is wasted. We need vision from the top and have Kenwright's input consist of picking the biscuits for the boardroom members!
Derek Taylor
161 Posted 29/09/2019 at 14:21:46
John, I am chaste. I did not seek to disrespect our manager nor to give offence to your goodself. 'Push the button' might have been a better choice of words but you get my meaning. Sorry.
Bill Watson
162 Posted 29/09/2019 at 14:27:38
John #159,

Whilst I agree with your comments regarding personal insults etc, I must agree with Derek that Silva is stubborn in his team selections and tactical set-ups, and his substitutions suggest he doesn't have much of a clue in rescuing losing situations, usually of his own making.

Unlike Derek, I wouldn't have called him an idiot but I certainly wouldn't call him sensible, either.

In our time, we've seen Carey, Bingham, Lee and Harvey dismissed, all with much better records than Silva. Even Harry Catterick was forced to stand down when his side's performance dipped.

Whilst deploring personal insults and name-calling, I feel it comes from a frustration that the current powers that be appear to accept mediocrity (as do some posters on this thread).

Silva will eventually be dismissed. For the sake of the club, and the fans, it should be sooner rather than later... but I agree, let's not stoop to name-calling.

Dave Ganley
163 Posted 29/09/2019 at 14:34:00
I think people need to understand the circumstances and dire situation we were in when Moyes took over. I think everyone, including those who are advocating Moyes's return, accepts that he definitely had his limitations when it came to games of real importance. However, correct me if I'm wrong, the people harking back to Moyes's days are wanting a return to the fight and passion Moyes's teams displayed on a regular basis. Sure, there were some awful performances but generally there followed an improvement the next game out.

Moyes got as long as he did due to the fact that he stabilised us and then made us competitive again. My own feelings on Moyes was that he should have been replaced after the 2009 FA Cup Final against Chelsea.

He had got us to a level whereby we just needed a top-quality manager to take us to the top level. Even taking that into account and also the manner of his departure, he still left us in a healthy state.

However, since then, the club has just been on a downward spiral. Occasional good displays surrounded by substandard displays with players seemingly choosing when to put maximum effort in and when to let games bypass them.

We have better more talented players now but, as for effort, well Moyes's teams win hands down. I think that's why Moyes's name keeps coming up week after week. He never tolerated players playing within themselves. Moyes's teams had more drive and passion in their little fingers than this lot put together.

For all the talk of Martinez and Silva "getting the Everton way", they get nothing. We can forgive a lack of talent or being out of form but to not give 100% every game is unforgivable.

There has been quite a bit of back-patting for the effort put in yesterday but where is it week after week? Moyes left us with a Fortress Goodison legacy. Every team hated coming here and knew that they were in for a battle to get any kind of result. Now, anybody comes here and gets an easy ride. Most people knew the outcome of yesterday before it happened. That's how low we have fallen. In Moyes's days, especially at home, we could beat anyone and regularly did.

As I say, I'm certainly not advocating a return to Moyes but crikey, we could do with some of the grit and determination his teams showed. Never give in, never give up.

It was just a shame that he never had the self-belief to take it to the top teams away from home and at Wembley. If he did then we certainly should have been capable of winning trophies. His teams certainly around 2007 to 2012 were better than anything we have subsequently seen.

The club and team are now back at the level and stature as we were when Moyes took over. A damning indictment in my opinion. Hard time ahead I fear.

John McFarlane Snr
164 Posted 29/09/2019 at 14:43:30
Hi Derek [161], I'm afraid that you have got your wires crossed, my response was addressed To Derek [146] who referred to Marco Silva as a 'stubborn hasn't-got-a-clue idiot'.

I find no fault in your post [147 ]. I consider it a well-balanced post, presented in a completely acceptable manner. I can only think that [in football parlance] you took one for the team. .

Paul Hewitt
165 Posted 29/09/2019 at 14:55:42
I really have to laugh when people say, "The players put a shift in today". Where was this shift against Bournemouth and Sheffield United???

I expect normal service to be resumed next weekend at Burnley. Half-hearted effort, from gutless and spinless cowards.

I watched Wales v Australia today. If you want to see real men putting their bodies on the line and doing everything to win a match, that was it.

Derek Taylor
167 Posted 29/09/2019 at 15:43:34
John Senior, I'm mightily relieved that my post did not give offence, after all, as a battle of words between two octogenarian TWers would have been most unedifying (although, no doubt, quite amusing to some correspondents!).

I should tell you, however, that my good lady (a long-retired English teacher) was not impressed with either of the metaphors I chose to describe Silva's hoped-for departure. She suggested that 'pull the plug' would have served to remove all lavatorial implication from the method of his departure!

John McFarlane Snr
168 Posted 29/09/2019 at 16:01:38
Hi Derek [167] thank you for informing me that your 'Good Lady' is a long-retired English teacher, as result of which I'm crossing you off my list of potential opponents in a 'Battle of Words'.
Jay Harris
169 Posted 29/09/2019 at 17:46:25
While I would not want a return of Moyes and most certainly not a Kenwright Moyes partnership I do believe we should appreciate the job he did for us and I do think he was a better manager than Martinez, Silva and Allardyce.

Koeman I believe did not get a fair chance with manipulating Bill wanting to run things.

Silva appears not to be the answer but it is difficult to assess who would be the ideal candidate to sort this mess out.

I would give Silva until January to demonstrate he is capable of dealing with this slump and if he is not then spend the time in between sounding out a replacement.

Jay Wood

170 Posted 29/09/2019 at 17:52:57
Paul @ 123 and Alan @ 127.

In replying to my post @ 118 both of you appear to have the misconception that I am attempting to suppress opinion on TW.

If you know my TW posting history (there's a song in there, somewhere...) you would know nothing could be further from the truth. I vehemently lobby for the right for ALL to express whatever opinions they like on all topics Blue. With one caveat: each and every poster takes personal responsibility for the consequences of their words.

I contest posts and opinions I don't fully agree with. I don't lobby to 'purify' opinions, or suppress them. Others most certainly do (as evidenced in this very thread).

Now, in answer to your individual posts. Paul first.

Although your post was not one of your pithy one-liners intended to draw a chortle, it still brought a smile to my face.

1) YOU described the posts I reference as 'mistaken', not me. It befalls to others making the claims, not me, to describe what they are doing differently to also not be regarded as 'accepting mediocrity'

2) I made the challenge I did to those posters to genuinely learn if they are acting differently to the passive majority (their perception of fellow Blues) they clearly berate for 'accepting mediocrity'

If they are and they have evidence that their actions (not empty rhetoric on a footy forum, read by a few score people) IS impacting on the club and resulting in regime and attitude change at all levels which will deliver us the results and silverware we crave, be it at ownership, board, player and manager level and everything in between, then let's hear about it.

If anyone is doing that successfully, then they should broadcast the fact, broaden their support base to be better able to make an even stronger lobby and representation to the club to rouse one and all from the apathy of 'accepting mediocrity'. If successful, they would enter into the pantheon of Everton folklore and be revered.

Alan. I respond to your post in the same way. I haven't suggested anything of the things you attribute to me, at all. I simply requested clarification from others what THEY were actively doing to 'make a difference'. Why? Because by implication, they elevate themselves above other Blues who they regard as co-culpable for Everton's plight for 'accepting mediocrity'.

You excuse such posts by describing them as written in exasperation from long-suffering. This ignores that some very explicitly blame the fan base:

"all have accepted mediocrity"

"most of us are lowering our standards"

"there are Blue Bill acolytes within our ranks that I'm afraid we will always be stuck in 'their' (our very own supporters) mud"

"For those impressed by today's efforts, the late Sir John Moores would have been hailing a taxi (or calling a Uber). My God, how expectations have fallen"

As for your poor effort of 'putting the boot on the other foot':

1) it has another to do with the particular challenge and topic I am addressing

2) it's neither a coherently made point, nor is it factual or accurate in any way

Never, ever - and I never will - have I claimed to be a superior type of fan than others. Other posters most certainly do.

Yes, I watch and support the team, the club, from Brazil on TV.

And..? What's the issue with that?

I genuinely have no idea what point, if any, you are trying to make when you throw in an adjacent clause about 'match going snobbery'.

I have frequently praised the sacrifices match-going fans make to attend live games. Equally, I have expressed my admiration for the global support that has no other option than to get up at unearthly hours to follow a game live.

I have frequently acknowledged that the image telly spectators can see of the game, determined by a TV director live decisions on which camera shot to use, cannot ever match the wider peripheral vision a live attendee can enjoy. And vice-versa, at times a telly spectator with the aid of replays can sometimes have a better understanding than a live attendee of how and why a particularly play resulted.

What I have also frequently said is that, IMHO, a match-going fan's opinion is NOT, by default, more credible and more valid than a non-attendee. I state that for a very simple reason:

There is no monopoly on football wisdom just because you get to see the Blues play live. There has always, but ALWAYS, been some right shite and nonsense posted by match attendees, as there has been by non-attendees. Alternatively, there is also frequently great insight and analysis from both sets of supporters.

So in conclusion, absolutely no problem with me of anyone posting any opinion on any topic they like. But then, don't squawk and claim 'unfair' when challenged. And it's my belief that an opinion is 'devalued' (your words, Alan) if you can't support and defend it and respond to such challenges.

(Still no takers to my closing challenge in post 118, I note).

Justin Doone
171 Posted 29/09/2019 at 18:03:38
In general, yes, we played well and Man City are a top team. These are not the games to judge us by though.

Against Aston Villa, Bournemouth and Sheffield Utd we were poor. Not only struggling to create and score but giving opponents to much time, space and making it far too easy to score against us.

Pickford conceding from a free-kick is disappointing but it was a very good free-kick. It's his stupid decision-making at the end that is simply not worthy of a top Premier league team. He rushes out too often and makes too many poor decisions. But his kicking and general distribution was very good today.

Coleman did play well but, for all his runs and dribbles, mostly the final ball ended up with a City player. If only he could cross half as well as Digne.

I'm not a fan of Schneiderlin and would rather he never play for us again. How the words good never mind great can be used to describe him I'll never know.

But to finish on a positive, I saw him play at least 6 forward passes today, 3 of which were more than 20 yards. They didn't all find an Everton shirt but it was good to see and the most positive I've seen him play.

Denis Richardson
172 Posted 29/09/2019 at 18:07:00
Jack 126 - on the flip side Silva has been backed with about £200m in investment into the squad.

Digne, Gbamin, Mina, Iwobi, Gomes all cost £20m-£25m. Richarlison cost about £40m. Whilst Bernard was a ‘free' cos his contract expired, he's on £90k/week and Delph is on £110k/week.

Add to that Pickford, Keane, Coleman and Sigurdsson, all inherited, are all top internationals.

The manager inherited some good players and has been backed massively in signing others.

Why we didn't sign a proper centre-back or seasoned striker in the summer is beyond me. Of course they tried but failing to do so when we'd known since January that Zouma was going back and had 8 months to get a seasoned striker is truly shocking. If we were not able to buy the ones we wanted we should have at least signed someone on loan (worked with Zouma and Lukakuu initially came on loan as example).

On the centre-back front, we wasted too much time on Zouma in the summer and had no Plan B (resulting in desperate attempts at the end for Rojo and Smalling).

On the striker front, I still don't know why we can't take a punt on a top hard working young Championship striker or are our scouts unable to find someone half-decent we can afford? We don't need a world class striker (we can't afford one) but Haller looks the real deal at West Ham, Pukki had already scored the same number of goals as the whole Everton team – and for Norwich ffs.

Leicester have had Vardy for years, Bournemouth have Wilson; we, on the other hand, have started the last two campaigns without a proper seasoned striker – and we wonder why we don't score enough goals.

Kean will be a good player and Calvert-Lewin may develop into one but neither needs the pressure of being the current main striker at this time, IMO.

Anthony Murphy
173 Posted 29/09/2019 at 18:12:50
Dave #163.

A really good post. Some variables in football have nothing to do with the quality of players at your disposal and I think this is what needs addressing. Work ethic, fighting spirit, desire to win, players fitness, preparation, organisation, togetherness, tactical awareness, rotation of squad, use of substitutes etc etc etc.

Loads of variables that can be improved and have nothing (or little) to do with the quality of player available.

Derek Knox
174 Posted 29/09/2019 at 18:15:03
John @ 159, having met you and spoken to you on several occasions, I have the utmost respect for you personally. However, I will not detract from what I said in my post before as it is representative of my feelings towards Silva and what he is doing to our beloved Club.

At the end of the day, as you succinctly implied, this is a fan's forum, where we should be able to express our TRUE feelings; if those feelings are totally suppressed by the observation of Political Correctness, they can more often than not be diluted from their intended impact.

What am I supposed to say? He is doing a wonderful job (Not!) and I wholeheartedly agree with his bewildering team selections, lack of any recognisable system of play, and even more bizarre substitutions – both in timing and personnel employed.

As you well know, I have supported Everton for approaching 60 years now, but I have rarely been so disappointed in a Manager, who was head-hunted and promised to be our new saviour (Koeman and Allardyce excepted), the standard of football has gone down dramatically.

We have spent more than we could ever have anticipated in bygone years, and yet there is less passion, less decent football, and allegedly we have better players.

While I do agree we have some very good players, there is also that lack of passion, drive and the desire to keep going till that final whistle, whether it be to capitalise or equalise.

This I'm afraid has to lay fairly and squarely with the Manager/Coach. While I would not advocate the return of David Moyes, at least his players did play with some passion and drive, and often (not always) provided some entertainment too.

Admittedly he did not enjoy the untold riches in the transfer kitty, that have been squandered by Koeman, Allardyce and Silva in the most part, and he didn't always buy successfully. He did turn Everton at home into Fortress Goodison.

I think the statistics show that we have a much better home record than away, but a lot of that is down to the loyal fans’ support, being the twelfth man if you like. That is even being eroded under Silva, and teams we should be expected to defeat, are finding it easier to get something out of a visit to Goodison.

Apologies again, John, if I have upset you or any other TWer personally, but I will endeavour to treat Marco Silva as a protected species in future rants, but I don't think for one minute I am alone in my feelings towards him.

Mike Oates
175 Posted 29/09/2019 at 18:43:09
Lots of aggression, lots of cavalry charges, but beaten by an excellent team, which in truth left 3-4 of their top players on the bench. At least there was passion today which was missing against Sheff Utd, but to be targeting the Top 6 you need more than passion, endeavour, you need a solid defence and a clinical front line, all co-ordinated by a strong and creative midfield. Easy to write, but we have none of those characteristics in the team at present.

Player-wise, our current problems, first and foremost: Pickford is a liability and will soon be found out by losing his England place. Far too lackadaisical, not focused, poor command of his 6-yard box, poor at coming out and dealing with any threat, and poor at positional play at free kicks and also to dealing with a through-ball.

Digne is starting to show why he couldn't achieve a Barcelona place, ultra poor defensively, far too close to his opposition, gets turned, gets outpaced and unfortunately for us his crossing has become as bad as Coleman's.

Keane looses his player far too easily, gets caught ball watching, and time and time again gets caught out with a 30- or 40-yard pass behind him, more often than not leading to a chance.

In midfield, Silva is forced to play two defensive lads in Delph and Schneiderlin as he has no faith in Keane and Mina. Neither midfield players, Delph nor Schneiderlin, have the energy, situation awareness, or tackling ability, that Gueye had and it leads to a lack of creativity through the middle, as we now need two to do the job of one.

We are desperately missing Gomes, who not only brings strength to the midfield but excellent creativity as well, but you can’t just rely on one player to provide this, you need 2 or 3 and Delph, Schneiderlin, Davies, and even Gbamin I suspect won’t provide that spark.

With no goals from Sigurdsson, the onus has been on the front 2-3 to do the business and neither Calvert-Lewin or Moise Kean are up to it at present. I think Richarlison will have 12-15 goals in him, but you need another 40 goals from elsewhere.

We all got brainwashed in the transfer window when we got the best Italian kid around, believing we had bought the new Ronaldo, which he might become in about 2-3 seasons, but at the moment he is in the head down run and hope stage of his development. He has to learn to hold the ball, bring other players into the game, find space, and, last but not least, hit the target and on a continual basis.

Calvert- Lewin's first touch is abysmal and whilst he works terrifically hard, he does not possess a natural goalscoring instinct.

I still think we can get to 6-8th in the league, but it needs a turnaround now, starting at Burnley or we will be facing a season fighting like mad to get out of the bottom 10, with all that additional negative pressure acting on us, instead of a postiveness we can get near our season target of getting into Europe again.

John McFarlane Snr
176 Posted 29/09/2019 at 19:28:21
Hi Derek [174],

I don't expect you to say that "Marco Silva is doing a wonderful job”, and that you “wholeheartedly agree with what you consider bewildering team selections, and lack of any recognisable system of play, and even more bewildering substitutions, in timing and personnel employed."

Having met you, [as you say] on several occasions, I believe that you are capable of putting your views across quite forcibly without resorting to personal insults, and I certainly don't expect you to treat him as an 'endangered species', but I would expect you to treat him with respect irrespective of your opinion of his failings. It's just a thing I have about spoken and written manners, I suppose.

Don Alexander
178 Posted 29/09/2019 at 20:13:34
To Paul @ 123, Alan @ 127 and His Eminence at @170;

And it's a Grand Old site to play for,
And it's a Grand Old site to support,
And if, yer know, Wood's 'istory,
It's enough to make your mind go "Wo! Wo! (and thrice) Wo!!"
Cos he don't care what t'other guys say,
What the fuck does he care?
But then we always know,
There's gonna be a show,
When the Everton boys are there!

Andy Crooks
179 Posted 29/09/2019 at 20:25:32
John@ 176, I think you are being a tad harsh on Derek. I know and respect your views. At the meetings we have had, you differentiate between online views, which can be read by anyone, and the frank discussions we have in the pub. It is a standard I aspire to, but fall of now and again.

Anyway, never mind that. I hope that Mike Gaynes will be over in the New Year and hope for a big ToffeeWeb get-together. Hope you are well, John. I hope to have a book for you.

John McFarlane Snr
181 Posted 29/09/2019 at 21:29:52
Hi Andy [179] I'm just as frustrated as anyone, but I don't believe that bad-mouthing individuals does any good. I finished my post by saying that treating Marco Silva with respect whatever his failings are, is a mannerly thing to do, it was never my intention to belittle Derek, and [on reflection] I think that Derek will recognise that.

I am not enamoured by some of Silva's team and substitute selections myself, but he's the manager and that's his job. I'm sure that it's quite possible, that six or seven of us could [at the next get together] select what we consider the best starting eleven, and come up with six or seven different line-ups, and I'm certain we won't refer to each other as idiots.

Derek Knox
182 Posted 29/09/2019 at 21:48:19
John, @ 181, I know your post was to Andy, but in regards to your suggestion that at the next TW Get-Together we were to hypothetically pick the best 1, that we would possibly/probably have six or seven different line-ups.

No we wouldn't refer to each other as idiots,-point taken, but neither would any of us be receiving £6M/year for doing so! I am confident however that we, between us would be able to pick a team (from who is available) and suited to whoever the opposition is, that would surpass what Silva has been seen to choose.

Derek Knox
183 Posted 29/09/2019 at 21:49:50
* 11, eleven not 1!
Brian Wilkinson
184 Posted 29/09/2019 at 23:04:38
From where I see it, these are the conclusions I have come up with.

Whether it is from higher above or from the manager himself, Sigurdsson with the price we paid is getting selected on the money we paid and not for his form.

With Schneiderlin, it appears with losing Gueye, Silva sees him as the Gareth Barry type player holding up just in front of the defenders, and does not trust any other player to play that role.

Walcott, well I do not have a clue on that one, could be some dodgy photos Walcott had at the last Xmas party he has under lock and key.

Pickford is a shoo-in, again the money we spent, he is undroppable, no matter how many times he drops a clanger, laughing is not the answer.

Calvert-Lewin, a work horse but the finishing of Devon Loch, cannot really state a case as he appears to be the only one we can select each week seeing as he has no faith in Tosun for an extended run out.

So for me, players are being selected for the wrong reasons.

Do we have players to fill the Sigurdsson role? Yes. Do we have players to play in front of the defence? Yes. Do we have a keeper who could push Pickford? Quite possibly in Lössl.

One thing's for sure: we have to bring in a quality striker in to convert the chances we keep missing, and fix the centre-half spot. But to fix our problems, the manager needs to select players on merit and not reputation.

Danny Broderick
186 Posted 30/09/2019 at 02:54:56
Mike at 175 has just listed our problems player wise, and he has criticised every single player!
Albert Perkins
187 Posted 30/09/2019 at 05:36:31
There's talk of those attending and watching on the telly, often abroad. When I lived in Litherland in the 60s and attended all matches at home (and at Anfield with my best mate who was Red) I enjoyed the view of the whole field and spent much of my time watching where the ball might be played as much as who had control. Now I realize what a gift that was as I get out of bed 6,000 miles from Goodison, at 3.30AM and struggle to find a link online that holds up for more than 10 minutes, often the picture only 5x4 inches. It is still a great gift to be able to watch my Blues whatever the challenges. Today I'm reminded that I don't have to suffer the other side ragging me about our relative positions in the league. I would suffer that if I could, but life has lead me to a far corner of the globe. I am heartened by some aspects of our performance against City, but results have to change for the better. Silva has till the end of the season or he will be off back to Portugal. Or Stoke.
Alan J Thompson
188 Posted 30/09/2019 at 06:45:14
I'm sometimes amused at the lengths some people go to in order to defend the things they find amusing.
Darren Hind
189 Posted 30/09/2019 at 08:36:29
Come on Albert @187


Which far-flung corner of the globe have you discovered where there are no Kopites?

I think you are bang out of order keeping it to yourself.

Gerry Ring
190 Posted 30/09/2019 at 08:39:10
The reality is that Silva is not a top class manager and doesn't have the proven ability to drive Everton forward. All you have to do is look at Leicester City to see the influence a good manager can bring in a short time.

We are in exactly the same position now as when Silva took over, struggling to keep pace with the bottom half teams. I honestly don't think it's going to get an awful lot better. ☹️

Max Murphy
191 Posted 30/09/2019 at 10:58:53
I definitely see the green shoots of recovery after this game. 3-1 defeat at home is a good result for us.

We only have to play Chelsea, Spurs, Man Utd, Arsenal, Leicester home and away, and Man City away. That's 33 points in the bag!

Then we've got the Carabao Cup to look forward to. Watford at home – walk over!

So I cannot see why everybody is so depressed.

Doctor, can you loosen the straps on this jacket.

John Hammond
192 Posted 30/09/2019 at 10:59:00
Season after season it's "Bring back Moyes".

It's hilarious and also batshit mental.

Kim Vivian
193 Posted 30/09/2019 at 11:00:04
John @181 and various, Derek, various - I think, John, rather than inferring Silva is an idiot - perhaps he should just be describing Silva's strategy as idiotic (in his opinion).

I, myself, just find some of the team selections, tactics and substitutions somewhat baffling on occasion.

Justin Doone
194 Posted 30/09/2019 at 12:36:38
I think most agree Silva was never the manager to make us a top 4 team and nothing has changed.

We have improved the general playing staff skill level and performances from Koeman and Sam's time.

Although brands may have overseen player recruitment I'm sure Silva being here helped bring in the Brazilian and ex-Barca players.

Our biggest issue like the majority of teams is the inconsistent performances and results. That's when managers need to step up and find away of turning losses into draws and draws to wins.

For all of Sam's anti-football (and I was glad to see the back of him ASAP) his reputation was based on consistent performances and results from average teams.

It doesn't take long to turn football results and form around as we did in the final third of last season. So I think it would be wrong to get rid of Silva just yet.

Time, money and the competition have put added pressure on Silva and I hope the next few weeks we quickly string some wins together because if not I have no idea who we could bring in to improve us but I hope those responsible have the answer.

Michael Connelly
195 Posted 30/09/2019 at 14:01:01
Justin, if we could bring in Lukaku, Gueya, and Zouma, they would no doubt improve us. The spine of the team has been ripped out over the last couple of seasons, which from the few comments I have read above, is not been seen as a mitigating factor for Silva. We have been woefully short of a goalscorer over the last couple of seasons, and we have just lost our best midfielder and central defender over the summer, without adequate replacement, on the face of it, in any of the positions. (Kean may develop in time, and Gbamin we have not seen enough of yet) Is Silva supposed to weave some magic with a weaker squad than he had last season?
Frank Thomas
196 Posted 30/09/2019 at 14:16:55
Would it be a good idea if Marco Silva had to write an internal report for the owner and chairman before every game and at the end of the transfer windows. Explaining his strategy for the next game and why he chose the players he selected and his expected result.

In the report he would also be requested to explain the previous games result why the results was different and how he had altered training to rectify the errors in players previous performances.
This would focus the managers aims against his realities.

For instance if Mina had headed the ball in either corner against Man City he would have scored. Similarly, if Calvert-Lewin had hit the ball with his left leg, he would have scored. For Mina, he might do 1 hour extra heading practise every day until the next game heading into the corner or targeted areas of the goal. Calvert-Lewin might have to practise shooting with his left leg for 1 hour every day. Both players would do this extra practise on top of their normal training.

This 'report' system would make the manager see how effective his tactics and use of substitutes is. It would make Silva a tougher manager. He would have to answer difficult questions from a much more informed board.

He might choose players that are strategically needed rather than players he prefers.

As a balance to the managers views maybe a small selection of fans from all around the ground could be asked after each game for their views and reactions on the players and tactics. All of these reports would be in strict confidence.

If I had just spent hundreds of millions of pounds I would expect reports.

Michael Lynch
197 Posted 30/09/2019 at 14:32:18
City are superb but we looked like a bottom half of the table team straining to keep up with them. Which is, unfortunately, exactly what we are at the moment.

Silva needs between eight and ten points from the next four league games, and a win in the league cup against Watford, or he's for the chop I reckon. We've spent a fortune and we look second rate.

John McFarlane Snr
198 Posted 30/09/2019 at 14:44:42
Hi Kim [193], I think that, on reflection Derek has realised that he could have illustrated his dislike of Marco Silva's selection and substitution decisions, in a different manner. I have a 'Do as you would be done by' attitude, and every now and then a reaction is triggered, and knowing Derek from ToffeeWeb get together's, I expected a more measured criticism of Silva's perceived failings.

I am no saint by any means nor do I consider myself a prude, but I try to criticise in a civilised manner. I may (occasionally) post something that causes others to take offence, but never intentionally. In the case of strong language, I know most of the words, and I actually know what some of them mean. I also appreciate that frustration can play a large part in a poster's contribution.

In closing may I add that I'm sure that Derek and I will remain friends? I look forward to the next get together, where we will no doubt share a drink or two.

Tony Waring
199 Posted 30/09/2019 at 15:59:02
The general consensus seems to be that Silva should be replaced. I tend to agree but who would replace him and deliver the goods?
Martin Nicholls
200 Posted 30/09/2019 at 18:10:38
Jay Wood#118 - you make a very good point to, and ask a not unreasonable question of those who set themselves apart from most of us by accusing us of "accepting mediocrity". You quite rightly remind #170 that no-one has taken you up on your challenge.

I have no idea what these people expect of ex-pats like yourself but can only assume that they expect a match going season ticket holder like me to either stop going or organise and support the kind of street demonstration that kopites are so famous for. I won't be doing this, neither to my knowledge have/are our critics done/doing so either.

The other way of demonstrating a "refusal to accept mediocrity" is maybe to express disapproval at end of the game and on occasion, I do that (NOT to the extent of booing though). What I will never do though, is sink to the level of the uncouth lout who unfortunately sat behind me in GT4 on Saturday – he thought it reasonable to "refuse acceptance of mediocrity" by repeatedly bellowing (at a time when we were actually holding our own) "You're a shower of fucking shite Everton" and "Fuck off, Digne, you useless fucking cunt" – what a great supporter!

It's when being subjected to that kind of behaviour that I sometimes wish I was watching on TV - it's a great shame that the stewards didn't eject him.

Sorry for the rant but if anything will make me walk away from Goodison Park (or in time, Bramley-Moore Dock), it's louts like him rather than the standard of the football. I just hope he reads this but I somehow doubt he has the intelligence to read.

Peter Mills
201 Posted 30/09/2019 at 19:11:36
Jay #118. I've had enough of this. I'm going to accept your challenge, and cite my own exemplary behaviour which brought about positive change at our club.

In1977, following the sacking of Billy Bingham and the advertising of the managerial vacancy, I applied for the post. I still have my photocopied rejection letter somewhere. The club clearly panicked at the level of applicants and appointed Gordon Lee, which was never going to work. This led directly to the appointment 3 years later of Howard Kendall. All down to me.

Should a similar vacancy arise some time soon I would apply again and this time fully expect to be appointed. At £5M p.a. I would accept a rolling monthly contract. After the first month, Tony Waring #199, I would be content to be sacked in favour of Tim Cahill and Mikel Arteta.

Jay Wood

202 Posted 30/09/2019 at 19:45:59
Top stuff, Peter! Now THAT's what I'm talking about! A man of action, forcing regime change that led to the most successful team in our history!

All hail, Peter!

I thought of you the previous week with the visit of the Blades and the Sheffield branch of the family wearing insufferable smirks!

I seem to remember you saying you were going to miss the game so hopefully you avoided the brunt of the crowing.

John McFarlane Snr
203 Posted 30/09/2019 at 19:52:59
Hi Martin [200],

Like yourself, I don't understand what people who call for action against 'acceptance of mediocrity' expect loyal supporters to do. I and thousands of others 'accept mediocrity' because we have little alternative. I rule out mass demonstration, and match boycott.

Having no control over club events on and off the pitch, means we have to accept whatever is served up or stop attending altogether. After going to Goodison for 71 of my 81 years, I would (to put it mildly) be reluctant to do so. I would ask these people who consider the 'mediocre' fayre unacceptable, why they keep attending games, or watching TV coverage?

Regarding the spectator who expressed his displeasure with profanity, I'm afraid he's not alone, he has a 'fellow lout' who sits a few rows behind me in the Park End, and nobody is safe from his savage criticism. He has no consideration for the decent fans young or old, male, female or kiddies, who have to listen to his foul language. I'm no saint, Martin, but I don't swear in front women, children, or strangers, and, because I don't have much of a social life, I've almost forgotten how to swear.

Peter Mills
204 Posted 30/09/2019 at 20:02:18
Jay, fortunately I was mid-Channel returning from France during the Blades game. I was receiving messages from my son telling me how grim it was, and messages from my sons-in-law reporting to the contrary.

The ones who married into the family were polite enough to offer their sympathy post-match, acknowledging they may have been a tad fortunate but revelling in an away-day smash and grab. Fair play to them, it’s something we don’t do very often.

Ken Kneale
205 Posted 30/09/2019 at 20:19:12
Peter @204,

I don't have your credentials or family history but I can produce carbonated copies of letters to Gordon Lee and cc'd to Jim Greenwood, the then secretary, urging them to get back to the fluent attacking football I had been weaned on with Ball, Kendall and Harvey.

I also have the pre-printed responses in very archaic language saying "We beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated ..." You don't get that these days when you write to the club with similar complaints — and I speak from experience.

As a former defender in local league football, I can offer my services as defensive coach if a position is available. I don't know what the going remuneration is but I will settle for the same wage as the current former player is on for being the so-called 'forward coach'. I would be confident my methods would prevent more goals for our team than his methods are at scoring against the opposition. I can produce references of a lifetime of support if required. I look forward to being of service to you.

Len Hawkins
207 Posted 30/09/2019 at 21:13:27
John #203,

I'm sorry but I can't accept your argument about people who won't accept mediocrity. I know the "Everton in my blood" argument but so long as you accept mediocrity like you advocate then why should things change.

There maybe a chip shop near you who's fish and chips were mouth-wateringly good and as it passed down the family it got worse and worse would you still buy from them if it was rancid but they used to be great, like Everton used to be great.

Peter Mills
208 Posted 30/09/2019 at 21:20:50
Dear Mr Kneale, I beg to acknowledge receipt of your post. I regret to advise I am already in receipt of numerous expressions of similar interest. I am sure this is due to the possibility of working alongside me, rather than any projected remuneration.

However, your application interests me. You state you are in search of a position, and have previously performed in a defensive capacity. This would make you ideal for my vacancy as coach for advanced midfield.

I will carefully consider your credentials and return to you.

Your obedient servant,

Ken Kneale
209 Posted 30/09/2019 at 22:08:11
Dear Mr Mills, I thank you for your comprehensive reply. My skill set does include experience for the role you identify.

I can produce numerous testimony from team mates that I rarely scored any goals, often made inaccurate passes and was often overtaken by others on the pitch including the referee as I tried to build up to full speed.

My concern is that such competencies make me better equipped to be part of the current management team ethos rather than what you seek. I can at least be comforted with you at the helm that a true Evertonian is back in charge.

Good luck with your proposals.

John McFarlane Snr
210 Posted 30/09/2019 at 22:15:47
Hi Len [207] I don't advocate acceptance of 'mediocrity', I don't see how I can combat it, and as regards the fish and chip shop example, I would visit another fish shop; unfortunately I don't wish to follow another football club.
Andy Crooks
211 Posted 30/09/2019 at 22:24:32
It is good to see fans putting themselves forward for jobs. I think it would be wrong to dismiss the case for Mills and Kneale. Arteta and Cahill lack the gravitas that these men can offer.

I have no wish to apply for anything on the coaching side. However, marketing is a different matter. I have no particular skill set that makes me fit for the job but that has never been a requirement and I have some new ideas. Say, for example, actually marketing the club.

Anyway, it's my turn.

John McFarlane Snr
212 Posted 30/09/2019 at 22:25:45
Hi again Len, [207] I meant another fish and chip shop.
Ken Kneale
213 Posted 01/10/2019 at 07:24:40
Andy, now that is a genuine revolution. It shows how badly we have been managed over recent decades that our commercial and marketing departments have set themselves abysmally low standards and consistently failed to acheive even those. I can see a genuine 'dream team' being assembled on TW.
Jerome Shields
214 Posted 01/10/2019 at 09:18:57
To be an Everton supporter is to be long-suffering. ToffeeWebbers are at the stage that they would like to see progress in the current Manager tenure, or at least progress on last season. Few really want a change of Manager, since the whole rigmarole starts again.

Everton have a better squad of players than before, though improving it further has been restricted by deadwood. There are still issues over motivation, though the expected boost did occur against Man City.

Silva seems in two minds regarding midfield selection, partly due to injuries, but also due what would appear to be Silva's lack of confidence in certain individuals. Some would even say that his confidence in certain players is misplaced, with stats to prove it.

All three goals against Everton were the result of either defensive or goalkeeping weaknesses. The forward play appeared better, but City did not set up shop and Everton only took one chance, though others were on target for a change.

The gauge of improvement now hangs on the Burnley game, and then we have the dreaded international break which never adds to the team motivation and improvement.

As John McFarlane Sr says, as a long-suffering Everton supporter, where do you go from here? You continue to hope and be prepared to suffer.

John McFarlane Snr
215 Posted 01/10/2019 at 11:21:30
Hi Jerome, [214] I suppose I did pose the question of, 'Where do we go from here'?, but not in those words exactly, so many fans have [so many] solutions to the problems that exist on and off the pitch, but unfortunately those solutions will never be put to the test. The vast majority I believe are like myself, they realise that no matter what they think, the 'powers that be' have the final say.

You rightly say that I am a long suffering supporter, in my 71 years of active support I have witnessed 1 relegation [1951] 1 promotion [1954] 4 League Championships [1963] [1970] [1985] [1987]----2 FA Cup wins [1984] [1995] and 1 European [Cup Winners] Cup [1985]. I and thousands of others have been bitterly disappointed on numerous occasions, too many to recount here, but like the proverbial 'bad penny' we keep turning up, the expression 'Gluttons for punishment' springs to mind.

What disappoints me as a match goer, is the mass exodus when our opponents score a late goal, it happened again on Saturday when City scored their second goal. I have been involved in football at a low level both as a player and manager, and the advice I gave, [which I have also posted on this site] is, 'If you can't lose, don't play, and if you can't see your team lose, don't go'

Dave Abrahams
216 Posted 01/10/2019 at 11:37:48
John (215), couldn’t you get a ticket for the 1966 cup final?
John McFarlane Snr
218 Posted 01/10/2019 at 12:31:27
Hi Dave [216] an embarrassing oversight, [it's an age thing], I was in G64, I can't believe I missed that off the list, my first visit to Wembley. We queued from 10 o'clock on Sunday night until 6 o'clock on Monday evening, fortunately for me my sister lived in Walton Village and I was able to nip over for toilet purposes. You will recall that programme vouchers were required for ticket entitlement, a great deal of swapping taking place throughout the night.

After the game we finished up on the Old Kent Road on the advice of a taxi driver, and had a wonderful time of it, as we left the pub [I can't recall the name of it] a group of Evertonians emerged from a pub on the opposite side of the road, and we finished up doing the 'Conga'.

I think it was about 5 o'clock on Sunday morning when we arrived back in Lime Street, I can't believe I overlooked probably the most satisfying experience of my life.

Derek Taylor
219 Posted 01/10/2019 at 14:05:03
John Snr, as a long sufferer like yourself (my first 'best player' was Ephraim Dodds!), I have to admire your fortitude. Unlike yourself, my match going days ended when Martinez lost his hair and started telling even bigger fibs to cover his shortcomings – of which there were many!

As I have said in these columns before, I have served my time and no longer have hope for success for Everton FC – even though they are rolling in money – both Moshiri's and that which comes for just being in the Premier League.

Just like Aston Villa before them, the sale of the club to a monied 'innocent abroad' did not turn the tide of mediocrity – principally because 'the saviour' knew little about the game and the charlatans that inhabit it.

His managerial appointments (apparently on the recommendation of a Sky frontman) have been disastrous and even the original transfer of football oversight from Chairman Bill to a Director of Football proved an expensive failure.

The trouble is that there are so few 'good' managers about – Villa kept on appointing 'no marks' until the club went 'tits up' and found themselves relegated to the second tier. And even the mighty Man Utd have found it impossible to satisfactorily replace Sir Alex.

However, for all the mess and muddle of the 'new regime', just one factor stands out as a sure sign that Everton can no longer claim to be a leading player and that's because, whenever the club finds 'a leading player', it somehow finds a way to dispose of him. Most recently, offers for Lukaku and Gueye were seen as too good to refuse and Zouma was not so enamoured of Goodison that he would 'agitate' to stay with us. Better to make fortunes for getting splinters in your arse than plaudits for running about, it seems!

And so it will continue. The only antidote is not to EXPECT anything apart from disappointment. Accept that Everton is no more than a bad movie projected on an endless reel. And soon they are going to be knocking down the picture house!

Jerome Shields
220 Posted 01/10/2019 at 15:10:29
John #213,

It's important to be a good loser. The mass exodus of fans does not help. When Kendall was going through a difficult period initially, he could count on the home and travelling fans to support him, with not much sympathy, but hard reality. This probably helped to turn things around and produce one of the best teams we ever had.

I think that this squad of players with additions can be turned around and Silva needs to feel that the fans are with him to do it, through thick and thin. Silva has become more sensitive to the support, and goes out of his way to show he is trying his best.

I, as you would expect from my posts, agree with you regarding the powers that be and the necessity for change, which we all seem powerless to influence. I do feel that, in recent years, we are starting to get through and I am hopeful that Moshiri and Brands will effect the necessary changes gradually and when they can.

I have supported Everton since the sixties and have seen and fondly remember the older generation supporters at matches throughout. I still remember some of them with their flasks of tea and sandwiches and their valuable knowledge of Everton, which they would impart, not by argument, but with wit in many cases.

Everton in a lot of ways are the last bastion of that generation and their influence, which you in your valuable contributions on ToffeeWeb, maintain that influence to this present day.

Thank you.

Steve Ferns
221 Posted 01/10/2019 at 15:16:12
Jerome, I think the fans are still there, just about. They leave the ground angry when we lose. You hear talk of sacking him, but you don't hear much of it in game. It's not like the last days of Koeman where the atmosphere was toxic and the fans were sat back waiting to give the manager and players what for when the inevitable goals started flying in (against us) or the Allardyce days where everyone seemed unhappy to see that arsehole in the dug out, regardless of whether you thought it was a necessary evil or not.

I don't think Silva has lost the fans just yet. He needs to come back to Goodison on 19th October with an away victory under his belt or the crowd might turn if West Ham go a goal up.

John McFarlane Snr
222 Posted 01/10/2019 at 15:47:14
Hi Derek [219] although I started watching the 'Blues' in 1948 I must confess that I don't recall seeing Jock Dodds play for Everton, I've checked his career at Goodison, and his last appearance was in a 1-0 loss at Turf Moor on 2 October 1948. My first hero Wally 'Nobby' Fielding, who was transferred to Southport in 1959 when I was serving with the army in Cyprus.

Although I still attend games, I had the stuffing knocked out of me by Martinez in his last season at the club, I'm no longer as passionate as I used to be, the wins [when they are achieved] no longer delight me the way they once did, the defeats don't demoralise me as much, and I'm afraid that I am still clinging to a game that is quickly changing beyond recognition.

Jerome Shields
223 Posted 01/10/2019 at 15:55:57
Steve that good to hear. Everton are still rebuilding and as always there will not be steady progress, but purple patches like the end of last season. This season there may be two purple patches and hopefully lessons learnt from this pre-season preparations and motivation. I think that most fans at games are responding to what seems as a lack of motivation at times by certain players and a perceived willingness to accept that level of performance. .

I think that Everton Fans through their trials and tribulations are quite knowledge and can see that Silvas is already heading in the right direction. They know that the under achievement at Everton has deeper roots and will take time to change.

Dave Abrahams
224 Posted 01/10/2019 at 18:42:35
John (218), don’t be embarrassed, I haven’t known you all that long, but long enough to know you would have been at the 1966 FA cup final, I was just giving your memory a little nudge.

Yes it is an age thing, especially at our age, when you go upstairs then wonder what you came up for, we are entitled to a little lapse of memory,it makes me laugh at myself as well, no harm done.

Tony Waring
225 Posted 02/10/2019 at 09:47:25
Peter (201). I'd go with that combo, the sooner the better I reckon.

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