Two points dropped after Schneiderlin walks

By Michael Kenrick 23/08/2019 361comments  |  Jump to last

Everton's 2019-20 Premier League campaign kicks off at Selhurst Park against Crystal Palace.

Marco Silva resists the temptation to debut any of his new signings, going with Lyndon's predicted starting line-up. Gbamin and Kean are on the bench. Delph and Baines are out injured.

For the home side, Everton target Wilfred Zaha is on the bench with Benteke leading the line on a windy day at Selhurst Park.

Everton kept possession well from the kick-off and mounted the early attacks, the ball falling perfectly for Sigurdsson who failed to put his foot through it, missing a glorious chance to open the Blues account in the 2nd minute.

Everton continued to dominate the play and move the ball well until near the penalty area, Digne driving his through-ball too hard and behind for a goal-kick. Another promising move broke down again with Sigurdsson's wayward pass.

Bernard won the first corner for Everton, taken by Sigurdsson and surprisingly laid in low to Richarlison, whose smart shot blocked away by Benteke. It was all Everton, fine balls in from Coleman on the right, then Digne on the left, but in both cases, the Everton attacker was blocked by a Palace defender.

Another fine advance by Coleman, in toward Calvert-Lewin but Dann stretched to give away another Everton corner, taken a little short, Bernard almost winning it back on the far side.

Everton looked a little nervy in Palace's first real attack after 20 minutes, Schneiderlin miskicking and Digne giving away a soft free-kick that was defended away.

A Pickford loft from the back gave Calvert-Lewin an advanced challenging bouncing ball that he could not bring under control. Gomes launched a fantastic ball for Barnard deserved so much more but the blind reverse ball for Digne was simply ridiculous. At the other end, Palace forced their way into the Everton area and got close to Pickford before the loose ball went behind.

A mad scramble after a fine build-up should surely have been the opening goal but saw Coleman's goal-bound shot reaction-saved by Guaita, and batted out to Barnard on the second attempt. A good early cross from him looked perfect for Calvert-Lewin but he had to readjust position and his poor header went wide off a defender. Coleman failed to beat the defender with Everton's next attack.

Schneiderlin gave away a foul, but Everton again played it out well and moved it to the right-wing again. The first VAR intervention was for a foul and possible red card offence on Barnard, rejected.

Another attack, another ball falling for Sigurdsson but he was closed down before he could shoot. Meyer was booked for rugby-tackling Richarlison.

Some great play from Sigurdsson was rewarded with a ridiculous free-kick against him that was taken quickly. It was in this spell that Gomes was injured. The free-kick needed a vital touch from Coleman to deflect the shot over the Everton goal. The first Palace corner beat everyone, despite a challenge on Pickford. The second was close to being headed in at the far post, Pickford hesitant, as it hit Schneiderlin on the back for a third corner that finally went behind for an Everton goal kick.

Gomes worryingly went down on his ankle and needed treatment, causing Jean-Philippe Gbamin to be given his debut seconds before half-time as Gomes hobbled off.

Sloppy play from Sigurdsson gave Palace the chance to attack again but the ball went behind and a promising but ultimately very frustrating half was brought to an end by Jon Moss. It as a really good half for Silva's men in terms of defence, possession, midfield play, and attacking build-up, but a very familiar problem was painfully obvious: no goals.

Palace restarted but Everton were quickly on the attack down the right again, Coleman's cross a little wayward this time. Richarlison was getting a lot of decisions from Jon Moss as the Palace appeared to be targetting him, successfully in terms of breaking Everton momentum.

An Everton move down the left was thwarted but Palace's cross was well over-hit. Everton reverted to the right side, and a neat play came so close in the end, Sigurdsson knee flick cleared off the line by Van Aanholt, Barnard booked for a silly foul from behind.

The next attack, again down the right, saw Richarlison's opportunistic shot from distance deflected. Schneiderlin then went in the book after reacting to another foul called on him. Milivojevic was the third yellow in quick succession, him fouling Sigurdsson.

Palace got behind the Everton defence, Ayew free to clip over Pickford who was out sharply and saved very well. But Palace again got free Meyer in acres of space, Pickford saving Everton again.

Gbamin was very easily dispossessed in midfield and Palace attacked again but Pickford was there to collect the ball played in. Everton tried to settle things again but Keane's ambitious lofted ball to Digne wide left was too difficult to pull off on the wind.

Sigurdssson turned and shot a little meekly along the ground for Guaita to save easily. Another attack saw the cross drift away from Richarlison as Wilfred Zaha came on for Ayew, the impetus now firmly with Palace.

Silva made a good reactive decision, bringing on Moise Kean for his debut in place of Calvert-Lewin as Everton once again pushed and probed, Richarlison curling a beautiful shot just wide, but he should really at least have had it on target.

Gbamin did well to win the ball only to pass it seconds later direct to the feet of a Palace player. The shape had gone a little, with the new signings needing time to adjust to the cut and thrust of the Premier League, Gbamin getting fouled by Mil.

Sigurdsson lost the ball and Zaha looked to score but was blocked. But Everton were now rocking a little, unable to get forward and relive the increasing pressure, Zaha having inspired rousing support form the home faithful. A fantastic move by Palace cut through the Everton defence, beating Pickford but Dige was there at the far post to hook it behind when it could so easily have been a complete disaster,

Then a poor late clip from Scheneiderlin, a yellow card offence, his second, so red also from Jon Moss. So sloppy and poor, two utterly stupid decisions by Schneiderlin. Silva immediately brought on Davies in place of Sigurdsson who had frankly not been impressive.

A tired low cross from Coleman went straight to Guaita on a now rare Everton foray, the Everton defence on call again soon after until Davies was fouled. Richarlison's cross was a lot better and seemed destined for Kean's head but flow over him.

Palace kept pressing, winning a corner that needed some stout defensive work as the minutes ticked away. Zaha came so close to creating absolute havoc at the near post, Pickford rescued by Mina and Davies. Digne did well to play in Kean who hit it behind rather than crossing or shooting.

Four minutes of added time, and Richarlison again flopping, incredibly winning the free-kick but Everton totally uninterested in attacking the Palace goal. The attack came eventually but lacked conviction, and Mina was called for a late free-kick to Palace that was the last move of the game.

A promising performance from Silva's men in many ways but ultimately 2 vital points dropped on the opening day as Palace were there for the taking in the first half, with Sigurdsson's glorious chance going down as a very expensive miss.

Crystal Palace: Guaita, Ward, Dann, Kelly, Van Aanholt, Meyer [Y:38'], Milivojevic [Y:55'], McArthur, Ayew (65' Zaha), Townsend, Benteke (83' Wickham).
Subs not Used: Hennessey, Kouyaté, McCarthy, Camarasa, Cahill.

Everton: Pickford, Coleman, Keane, Mina, Digne, Gomes (45' Gbamin), Schneiderlin [Y:54';YR:76'], Sigurdsson (78' Davies), Bernard [Y:52'], Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin (68' Kean).
Subs not Used: Lössl, Holgate, Walcott, Tosun.

Referee: Jon Moss

Attendance: 25,151

Due to a perceived colour clash with Palace's home kit, the Premier League requested that Everton play in their white change kit from last season for this fixture. The Blues' third kit, a dark blue number, isn't released until later this month.

Reader Comments (361)

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Jay Wood

2 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:28:15
The opening weekend of a new season.

One of the best days of the year when everyone starts on equal teams and fans can dream of glory (unless you follow Bolton or Bury, maybe...).

An expected line up, going with the known, with some new boys on the bench.

Give us a show, Everton.

Neil Lawson
3 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:28:41
Predictable but sensible. Pressure on Calvert-Lewin and maybe it will be the incentive for him to start knocking goals in regularly. No predictions — this is Everton!!
Teddy Draper
4 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:30:10
Why not play our new striker? Surely Calvert-Lewin has had his run now and still is only Championship material (in my opinion) – we need goals badly so let's see what the lad is made of.
Ciarán McGlone
5 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:31:11
I didn't expect Silva to play any new boys... we waited last season for him to realise his best team too.

I think we've got enough to make this our first 3 points.

Praying for some decent joined-up football.

Josh Barber
6 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:38:40
Glad to see Kean is at least on the bench. Anyone know how soon Iwobi can play?
Dave Abrahams
8 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:03:28
Jay (1), yes love the start of the new season although usually it is a bright and sunny day, it is a miserable cold, wet and windy day here inLiverpool, think it is even worse down in London, I bet you are sweating your plums off in Brazil, hope we all enjoy the day and can forget about weather.
Tony Shelby
9 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:16:45
Makes sense to give Calvert-Lewin a start. Bring Kean on from the bench in the second half.

Let's hope Zaha doesn't have any bearing on the result...

Paul Armstrong
10 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:37:54
Anyone got a link for the match?
Jay Wood

11 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:53:05
This has been an excellent link for me, Paul.


Ciarán McGlone
12 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:55:08
The veritable curates egg...

I'd drag Sigurdsson off and give Kean 45 mins up top in a 4-4-2.

They are a below-average team and we are making hard work of this despite the weather.

Pity Gomes is injured because I thought Morgan was fairly useless.

Our full backs the only stand-out players so far.

Steve Ferns
13 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:59:44
Ciaran, I thought Schneiderlin has played well. Sigurdsson has been the most wasteful, but none of the front three have done well.

Patience with Kean. He's only ever been a sub up until now. You can't expect him to suddenly be a starter. He's not trained enough. He needs easing in. Last thing we need is for him to pick up a knock. We've already lost Gomes.

Jay Wood

14 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:59:53
Mostly in control for the majority of the game, but the same old problem persists. Not breaking into the penalty area and creating good chances.

That said, Siggy should have given us the lead on 2 minutes. He has been very poor in possession with his passing.

Good to see the defence defending with a high line. Mina has been outstanding. Coleman and Digne getting forward well. Gomes and Bernard playing better than they had pre-season. Pity Gomes has gone off, but an early chance to see what Gbamin can do.

Playing with the (swirling) wind in the second half. Will that benefit us or not?

Paul Armstrong
15 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:00:18
Thanks Jay.
Ciarán McGlone
16 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:12:57

Coming on at half-time.. .isn't starting.

Steve Ferns
17 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:36:38
That's absolutely ridiculous. Schneiderlin got himself a stupid booking and then – knowing Gomes is injured – made a reckless challenge and got himself sent off. There's no excusing that behaviour.

He's been poor second half as well. Gbamin is well off the pace too. Missed Gomes badly.

Christy Ring
18 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:42:24
I don't blame Schneiderlin, I blame Silva for playing him.
John Dingle
19 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:47:17
What must Moisie be thinking? Joined a bunch of clowns!!!
Steve Ferns
20 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:57:08
Christy, Gbamin was poor when he came on. He was not ready at all. Who else was Silva going to play? Schniederlin was good in the first half and then the whole side were poor once Gomes went off.

Now we are struggling for the Watford game when we will be missing Delph, Gomes and now Schneiderlin. Anyone know were Baningime is?

Annika Herbert
21 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:57:31
The good news? We didn't lose and we didn't concede.

I will need more time before I can improve on that!
Michael Kenrick
22 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:57:54
Sorry for the headline but, for me, that was a massive opportunity to start as we mean to go on.

Instead, it's business as usual, Silva too frightened and small-minded to make a real statement by blooding his new stars and relying instead on those who flatter to deceive in Sigurdsson and Calvert-Lewin.

Ciarán McGlone
23 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:58:29
Palace the better team second half even before the idiotic walk from Morgan.

Baptism of fire for Gbamin. Kept getting dispossessed and will take a while to adjust. Unfortunately we don't have a while... with Gomes, Morgan and Delph out.

Pretty forgetable stuff from Everton.

Tony Twist
24 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:58:43
Pathetic. Enough said really.
Michael Lynch
25 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:59:06
Probably a point gained rather than two lost in the end. Gbamin, surely, has to be better than he looked today? It was a Kroldrup level of jaw-droppingly out of his depthness. Hope he just needs to get used to the pace of things, but he was caught out at least four times and gave the ball away. Against a decent team we'd have been hammered because of his errors.

Gomes was great til he got crocked. We look threadbare in midfield now with him probably out Gbamin seemingly a long way from being ready, and Schneiderlin suspended but a liability anyway.

I feel for Marco actually.

Jeff Armstrong
26 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:59:26
Steve, it will be Davies and Gbamin v Watford unless Delph is fit.
Kevin Molloy
27 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:01:08
God... Sigurdsson was just a bucket of shit. And has been all pre-season.
Gary Carter
28 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:02:02
So our unadventurous small time thinking strikes again, no imagination in the line-up. Instead of potentially giving Moise 90 minutes to acclimatise, we've persisted in a player that scores one goal every 9 games. But the biggest crime was our transfer window and not signing Zaha or a centre-back.

Same as always, small-time thinking gets small-time results and final league placings!

Tony Hill
29 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:02:07
Correct, Michael, @22. I found that an utterly deflating performance on all sorts of levels.
Ernie Baywood
30 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:04:42
I thought Gbamin started well, got caught in possession once and then fell apart. After that, we didn't look like we had any idea how to play out from the back.

Mind you, I always go in to games at Palace optimistic... then watch a terrible game in shitty conditions. You'd think I'd learn by now. Terrible place to play football.

Schneiderlin. Had we won, and he didn't get sent off, there would have been people on here claiming he did the job of an unsung hero. He isn't an unsung hero, he's a complete waste of space. Offers nothing. Cruises through good performances. Cruises through bad performances. He doesn't influence our performance one bit.

George Cumiskey
31 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:05:08
Business as usual, terrible poor management to keep the abysmal Sigurdsson on for so long and Calvert-Lewin is never a Premier League striker. And Schneiderlin... well, enough said.
Robin Cannon
32 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:06:57
Poor game in rubbish conditions. Decent-ish first half, bit shapeless in the second half. I'm not going to read anything much into it. Important that Gomes's knock isn't too bad.
Paul Smith
33 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:07:01
Without Gomes, we suffered. He creates space effortlessly when others falter. When he went off, we were unable to affect the midfield. Richarlison played well with Coleman, Digne is quality, Bernard can't do the 90, Gbamin struggled with the pace, Calvert-Lewin held it up well. The centre-back pairing weren't the problem, our reliance on Gomes is.

ps: I forgot to mention Sigurdsson... sez it all.

Bill Gienapp
34 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:07:50
Somehow I don't think Schneiderlin endeared himself to anyone with that performance.

Actually thought Gbamin's passing looked pretty sharp - he clearly wasn't ready for the physicality of the Premier League, but I expect he'll adjust quickly.

On the plus side, for all the hand-wringing, the defense looked very good throughout. Holding your nerve when you go down a man on the road and the crowd is fired up is nothing to sneeze at.

Jamie Crowley
35 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:07:57
I agree with the title: two points dropped.

Analyze this all you want. The bottom line is until we start winning games such as these, we're 7th / 8th at best.

It's not good enough.

Sigurdsson should be sat next game. When you play poorly, you should not just waltz back into the side. You need to earn your place in the lineup.

Until Silva shows the ruthlessness top Clubs and managers do, we'll wallow in this mediocrity.

Michael Lynch
36 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:08:50
There was one moment in that match which summed up Calvert-Lewin for me - and he wasn't on the pitch for it. Palace gave the ball away cheaply and I think it was Richarlison played a first-time pass into space for the striker to run onto. Moise Kean was making exactly the correct run, but the ball was overhit. Calvert-Lewin, sadly, would have been on his heels and nowhere near it.

Rob Dolby
37 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:09:24
Gbamin will be on doors in town tonight by the looks of him. I had never seen him kick a ball before he joined us. He is well off the pace plus his forced and blind passing will be expensive against better teams.

We started really well but you have to take the chances.

Coleman and Sigurdsson should have scored. Even against 10 men, Palace didn't threaten. Their skipper was lucky to stay on.

On a positive note, Mina and Keane looked good. In fact, the whole defence was good.

Adam McCulloch
38 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:09:27
Michael (22), I think singling Calvert-Lewin out was harsh – he held the ball up well and had very little to work with.

Gomes going off was a massive blow. Sigurdsson was the one to flag up for me. We bought him for games like this, where stubborn sides need breaking down and unlocking with a bit of magic... he was woeful and looked totally off the pace.

Steve Ferns
39 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:10:34
Of course, Jeff, but there's no-one for the bench. Schneiderlin was playing well first half. That's the most infuriating part. You can't then get yourself booked for dissent even if the ref has been conned. And if you are, then you take care with your tackling. One of his great strengths is being safe and steady and, when he's on a booking, he becomes more reckless.

The guy is so weak mentally. He gets wound up and does what you want him not to do. It's like he's about 12.

Steve Brown
40 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:11:42
Bill, Gbamin's passing was sharp. Unfortunately, it was Palace players he was mainly passing to. Give him time though. Davies looked a better combination with him than Schneiderlin.
Steve Ferns
41 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:11:47
The thing is, we only got a point here last season and we always struggle in London. We can’t turn our noses up with a point. Even if the second half was so poor.
Tony Twist
42 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:11:57
On well, it's only a friendly... hang on, no it isn't! We are a mid-table club who are happy to make up the numbers and Silva couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
Michael Lynch
43 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:14:10
It's not all doom and gloom, we looked solid at the back and lively down the wings. Really looking forward to seeing more of Kean, and I still have hopes that Iwobi could be a massive improvement for us either on the wing or in central attacking midfield.

If Gomes is out for a while, I'll be really concerned though.

Steve Brown
44 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:14:13
Calvert-Lewin was not the reason for that poor second half performance. The ball came nowhere near him and Kean experienced the same when he came on.
Annika Herbert
45 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:14:55
Gary @28, Zaha isn'tt coming, end of story. No matter how many times you write about it, he isn'tt coming: get over it!
Jay Wood

46 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:17:00
Poor fare in the second half.

Pickford showed his class with a couple of top saves. Keane and Mina very solid at the back. Mina my MoTM. Digne and Coleman less of a threat going forward 2nd half.

Really poor in midfield. Gomes (before going off) and Schneiderlin were OK in the 1st half, but not for the first time in his Everton career Morgan's timing of a tackle is often poor and he had to go.

Gbamin was a real mixed bag. He had some very good moments and he had some truly awful ones. I presume he may be a little bit behind on pre-season as the Bundesliga starts later than the PL, but there were a couple of plays where he came away with the ball thinking the hard work was done, only for the player to get back at him and pinch his pocket. He doesn't look up to pace yet and Tom Davies must be the better shout to replace Schneiderlin during his suspension.

Siggy was awful. He scores after 2 minutes and it's a different game. He had a couple of other decent attempts which were saved or cleared off the line, but both his retention and passing were extremely poor today. Davies did OK.

Richarlison was quite peripheral. You would expect him to score with the left foot curler he fired in in the 2nd half. Bernard had his moments - certainly better than pre-season - but also some poor plays. In his hold-up play and running, DC-L cannot be faulted. It's in the penalty area he needs to be more alive with his movement in front of the defender in anticipation of the ball coming in.

Moise Kean once we went down to 10 men had little to feed on, so impossible to read anything deeper into his performance.

Today's performance and result too reminiscent of many an away performance over many of the last few seasons against opposition of this type.

Far too early to draw deep conclusions about what the season may bring, but we do need to start getting 3 points on the road more often against teams like Palace. That's part of Silva and the team's challenge.

Jay Harris
47 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:17:05
We can see why Silva wanted more midfield players brought in. I thought that was the main area of concern today. Schneiderlin played much better than usual but again, because of a lack of pace and poor judgement, he gets 2 yellows.

Gbamin looks as if he needs quite a few games to adjust and Sigurdsson was very off-colour today — including a huge chance wasted when it was easier to score.

Overall, I think we played very well with the usual caveats of not being clinical enough.

Joe McMahon
48 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:18:31
After years of research, I can confirm that (on the whole) Everton don't do goals. I'm not singling out Calvert-Lewin, I just don't think this is his level (and never have). We have suffered decades of strikers who just aren't good enough, which is pretty depressing as the club we share the city with score for fun.

Pat Kelly
49 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:21:02
We'll get better. But not much. 8th looking like a tall order.
Derek Knox
50 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:22:05
Steve @ 41, it's all very well dominating games, but if you don't convert that superiority or complement it with goals it's a waste of energy, the Tables don't record possession or style it is either win draw or lose. We should have well won today, okay the wind may have been a factor, but the same for both sides.

I was right about Schneiderlin on reflection although he did do more than I expected, but no excuse for petulant behaviour (first yellow) he had put us in danger second half of losing altogether.

Turkey, calling!

Jim Harrison
51 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:21
As always there is a lot of hyperbole about how bad the performance/result was, but in reality it was a typical early season game with players off the pace and new guys struggling to play with people they have only known for a week.

Away from home, point and clean sheet and, up until the sending off, the better team against a determined defence. No doubt there needs to be improvements but not a bad account of themselves.

I have an issue with the booking first time around. Player disappointed, throws a wobbler, but every player who feels they have been fouled puts in histrionics? It was a foul, so, ref, just talk to the player. It's the first game of the season!!

Anyway, give it a couple more games and let's judge the strength of the team. Mina looked good, Bernard looked like he can do a good job. Delphi fit and Iwobi to add some more physicality to the front line and there should be better results.

Zaha, as always, looked good, and I can't help but wonder if my initial thoughts on not wanting him were wrong, but he hardly illuminated his opportunity to show us what we are missing.

One away game down, let's see what the team can do at home with the full support of Goodison Park behind them.

Annika Herbert
52 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:30
I agree with Michael too, it was 2 points dropped. But I do think Gbamin will get better with more games and the defence, which I think we were all worried about, looked good.

I hope the Gomes injury isn't too serious because I thought he looked well up for it. Not sure what the situation is regarding Delph's injury, I am not a Delph fan, but he may be needed next week. Iwobi will also be available and, as he had virtually a full pre-season with the Gooners, he should be good to go against Watford.

So, disappointed not to get the win, but not too distraught yet. I still think we should at least take a look at Bernard in the middle too, he certainly couldn't do any worse than Sigurdsson did today anyway. . .

Raymond Fox
53 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:51
A point away from home is not bad, but the reality of how we performed hits home again: moderate. It could have gone either way in the end, so onto next week. It's a long season.

We seem to specialise in players being sent off, I don't know what stats are (I've tried) but it seems plenty.

John Boon
54 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:54
Television is not the medium for showing the negative effects of the weather. I feel we should have won based on our total dominance in the first half. Second half, Palace came more into the game but we still had a more controlled approach. We just need to score.

All the defenders played well and Mina was cool calm and collected. It is important to remember that he is still only 24 and still not fully attuned to the challenges of the Premier League. Gbamin did not look at ease, but it is still far too early to make any sensible judgements, although George (@31) seems to have already decided on his tone for the season.

Stephen McNally
55 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:27:52
People, you've got to show some patience. I've read some negative comments about Gbamin but he's not up to speed or match fit. Gbamin has admitted he's not quite ready at the moment. Get behind your team and stop being so predictably negative. Up the Toffees.
Jim Bennings
56 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:27:58
Unsurprisingly, a goalless draw because the starting lineup was roughly the same group as last season's that struggled all season for goals away from home.

Away form is our Achilles heel, too many winnable fixtures end up as frustrating draws, it's been the same since Martinez's first season of 2013-14.

Annika Herbert
58 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:30:59
Well said, Stephen @55!!
Pat Kelly
59 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:32:43
It has to get better. We're down £28m on rebuilding this window.
George Cumiskey
60 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:35:38
John Boon, l see you've got your rose-tinted glasses tone ready for the new season, I'm just commenting on what I saw today, mate.
Dave Abrahams
61 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:42:50
I never saw the game so can't real offer any opinion except to say we had three very good chances and failed to put any of them away.

After the sending off, I was happy we held on to one point. Early days, the new players obviously will need time to get accustomed to the pace of the Premier League, it seems though we are always slow starting, never ready to compete from the off. As Jay Wood states, that early miss from Sigurdsson could have set us up for a good start to the season.

Ajay Gopal
62 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:21
I watched the Man City - West Ham game and then I saw our game. The gap in quality between the Top sides and ourselves is staggering at this point of time.

I predict that this will be again a season of rebuilding. Anywhere between 7th and 10th I reckon, unless a couple of Iwobi, Kean, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, or Bernard explode on to the scene.

Gary Hughes
63 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:35
Mind-numbing depressing shite, so typical of an Everton away performance against piss-poor opposition. The second I saw Calvert-Lewin & Schneiderlin on the team sheet, I knew what was coming.

The lack of desire to win these games is like a disease at this club. It's as if no-one at the club cares less if we win, lose or draw. We go out of every cup at the first hurdle and the hierarchy just shrugs their shoulders. The lack of standards is a fucking disgrace.

By the way, does anyone know when the law was passed that forbids us playing with two strikers? I can't even remember when we last did, was it the Yak & AJ about 10 years ago?

Paul Rimmer
64 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:40
Positives in that we did well defensively but, after creating a few chances early on, we were poor offensively thereafter. Bernard and Calvert-Lewin aren't a big enough goal threat so, if Sigurdsson and Richarlison don't score, we're struggling.

Hopefully Kean and Iwobi can do well. Schneiderlin – I hope he goes as he offers nothing.

One last thing, how did Milojeviic stay on the pitch? The ref missed a blatant shirt pull and let him have at least 10 fouls with one booking.

Steve Brown
65 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:59
Only the first game of the season, so plan for Watford. If Gomes is injured, partner Gbamin with Davies and introduce Iwobi on the left with Kean in attack.
Gordon Crawford
66 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:45:39
Wow, the negativity is deafening. Yes, we probably should have taken all the points. But we haven't lost, and that's great. Clearly we are getting better at defending.

Also, it's going to take a while for the new guys to get up to speed, so give them break and stop putting them down so much.

Steve Ferns
67 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:46:38
Jim Bennings, Martinez had a good away record, his main problem was the home results.
Kieran Kinsella
68 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:49:49
Basically same pattern as pre-season. 0-0, solid, not cutting edge. You can't expect the last-minute signings all to hit the ground running after a day or two of training. That being said, a bit of a concern if Delph and Gomes are injured plus Schneiderlin suspended. Silver lining maybe that Scheiderlin's red will do for him what last season's did for Jagielka.
Ralph Basnett
69 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:55:42
Poor pre-season playing crap teams and using players that should not be near the first 11.

The above will inevitably result in a slow poor start.

Onwards and upwards we hope? .

Steve Ferns
70 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:57:04
Kieran, Richarlison has had very little time since the Copa America to rest, recuperate and then get ready for the new season. Calvert-Lewin has had a significantly reduced period as well. Bernard and Sigurdsson don't have those excuses available to them. Pre-season seems to get shorter every year and the players' holiday period too.

The first few weeks of the season always seem to take a while for most teams to get up to speed. Sure, City look great but we all know why, and Liverpool too. But they played Norwich and knew they had to make a statement for city.

Watford got smashed 3-0. At home. By Brighton. I had Brighton down for relegation and most neutrals have Watford right behind us.

We drew in the capital, repeating the result from last season. It's no great disappointment. I'll always take a draw in London, particularly on the first day of the season without being able to play any of our new players.

We will get better. We have to. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and don't let the footy get you down.

Steavey Buckley
71 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:59:18
It is déjà vu all over again: Everton made Crystal Palace look good again when they were poor because Everton have no cutting edge up front and no Premier League goalscorer.
Ciarán McGlone
72 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:59:58
We played Crystal Palace... not London.

They're mediocre... and we didn't look much better.

Stop making excuses.

Paul Tran
74 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:06:26
I thought Silva got two things wrong today. I'd have played Kean from the off, give him an hour to run amok till he tires. If you have a team short on goals, you buy a goalscorer and play him. Gbamin said in his presser he wouldn't be ready to play today. Again, bringing a player who is neither fit, nor used the pace of our game, midway through a game isn't clever. I'd have brought on Davies.

First half we were solid, neat and toothless. Upfront, we're like a jigsaw puzzle with the wrong pieces.

I'd start Iwobi and Kean next week. They're both needed.

The back four looked solid, my joint Man of the Match goes to Keane & Mina.

The draw didn't surprise me, but these are the games we need to be winning. A bit underwhelming; could have been worse, plenty to look forward to.

Alan J Thompson
75 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:07:14
We dominated the first half without making any really clear cut chances but from what I saw Gbamin was strugglig with the pace of the game and shouldn't have been on for Gomes. While the tackle that did the damage was a little before he was subbed I thought he might have gotten through the two minutes until half-time and even then Davies might have been a better bet, given licence to go forward.

Calvert-Lewin again wasn't getting his runs right, moving behind the defender instead of across him. It was interesting to see that Kean was moving, and taking defenders with him, before others saw the obvious pass even though the pass didn't eventuate although at times the idea of "pressing" looked as though it is not something they do a lot of at Juve or the Azzure.

Mina and Keane had good games without coming under any serious pressure until Zaha came on and Pickford again showed his value.

Up front, we need to show more creativity and perhaps a lot more first-time efforts when the chance arise. While they were only friendlies, the same problem was seen then.

Still, we can boast we maintained our unbeaten record.

Steve Hewitt
76 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:09:02
I didn't think we looked fully up to pace yet but, bearing in mind we didn't even know the squad until Friday, some of the team are not long back, and Gbamin and Kean only joined a few days ago, I would say a draw is not the end of the world. Throw into the mix we lost Gomes and Morgan got sent off, the lads did okay.

There needs to be some patience and knee-jerk reactions calling players of our team fit to burn, who are young and have just joined us, are not helpful and are not supportive.

Let's get behind these boys and make them feel amazing, not rubbish them after 20 minutes.

Come on You Blues – Keep on Keeping on.

Steve Ferns
77 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:09:37
We only need to improve by 11 points to be in with a shout of the top 6. 13-19 points would see us in the running for the Champions League places. We drew with Watford at home last season, we got beat by wolves at home. There's 5 points we can target in the next two home games. Drawing on the opening day against Crystal Palace is nothing to cry about. Frustrating performance, yes. Must do better, sure. But Watford is the game we need to win.

Palace will beat better sides at home than us this season. That's for sure. Meantime, Spurs are losing against Villa.

Kieran Kinsella
78 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:13:03
This game is a good example though for the ongoing Sigurdsson debate. His lack of influence or time on the ball when he isn't scoring or completing an assist is pretty amazing. I am wondering if it is because, when he isn't in possession, that he is closing down and harassing the opposition? I mean he is working hard, but maybe he would be more useful to defend a bit less, drop back into space, and make himself available? We know he can use the ball well.
John Keating
79 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:15:23
There can be no excuses — the whole thing was poor and really unacceptable.

We have known for 3 years we needed a striker. We've bought a young lad who may or may not make it in the Premier League. Hopefully he will but, once again, our excuse is that he needs time to adapt.

We knew we needed a left-sided centre-half and left it to a last-minute panic to get one from Man Utd and still failed.

Silva wanted cover at right-back and, in my opinion, stupidly let Jonjoe Kenny go and brought in another who will probably need time to get up to speed.

We needed a defensive midfielder or box-to-box and have got another one who will need time. I championed John McGinn when he was at Hibs who we could have got for a couple of million. This lad's cost us 20 odd!!

We just never seem to be able to hit the start of the season at full speed — it's always so slow and predictable.

If we are serious about a top 6 finish, the players and also the manager need to buck up quickly.

Kim Vivian
80 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:17:51
First half for me was a bore-fest 2 particularly the last, 15mins. Second half more exciting but rather for the wrong reasons. No one seems to be mentioning Pickford: two one-on-one saves in the second half. Right in front of me... and the second in particular a great reaction stop.

Gbamin not so bad as people making out. Everyone looked a bit nervy at first.
Train just pulled in. I'll be back...

John Pierce
81 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:21:03
Opening day against a side who barely threaten without their best player, they managed a handful of home wins last season, 5 I think. So no, they won't beat better sides than us at home.

Is that really acceptable? 11 efforts at goal, 3 on target. Goal shy.

Yet apparently Watford and Wolves are easier to get points off. Steve, that's a fully laden set of excuses you've rolled out for Mr Silva.

Poor result, let's call it for what it was.

Kieran Kinsella
82 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:22:22
I'm not depressed, Steve. We have to be realistic. It's going to take a few months for new signings to click. I think we could have one but, like Dave Abrahams, once we went down to 10 men, I was content with a point.

I do hope we get a favourable League Cup draw so we aren't dumped out of that as usual before we find our stride.

Annika Herbert
83 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:28:31
I agree with Steve @77. Although I know some of you will despair at my making this point yet again, I still feel we are sadly lacking in creativity. If Gomes's injury isn't too bad, along with Iwobi and Delph, if fit, we still have midfield options.

Clearly some of our new recruits aren't yet up to speed. I do believe they will be fully ready soon though. For me, today wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as good as I would have hoped for.

Andy Crooks
85 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:37:34
That was poor. You get built up and then you get that. We looked really unprepared. I really thought we would get of to a flyer. Yes, better teams than us might struggle against Palace. Liverpool would have stuck six past them. Today we were fucking awful.
William Gall
86 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:43:14
The team put out today were the regular players from last season, except for Mina who replaced the transferred Zouma, so it was no surprise that as he was used to the Everton players and system; he had a good game.

It was no surprise either that the 2 players Gbamin and Kean were not starting, as they have only been at the club for 3 days and, when they were brought on, struggled so there is no way to asses their performance.

I believe it was Alex Ferguson who said you can afford to have 1 player having a poor game as the rest of the team should step up; our problem was we had more than 1 playing badly and bringing on the 2 new players was a mistake and did not help.

We should see a better performance next week when they have had a chance to train with the rest of the squad, and with Schniederlin missing, it will give Tom Davies a chance to make the position his.

Pat Kelly
87 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:43:24
I think we left it all on the field in Switzerland.
Richard Cusworth
88 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:43:55
Two points lost today and for sure not a failure any of the top 6 would have conjured up. That said, the opening game to me is always like an extension of pre-season and not necessarily a true barometer of what lies ahead. New signings need to catch up on fitness as do those late back for pre-season.

Positives... Clean sheet, more minutes under the belt for the likes of Richarlison and the likelihood that this starting line-up – a hangover from last season – will surely not be the norm going forwards. Hopefully, with greater attacking options and more sharpness next week, we can start to get that illusive goal that changes the whole complex of the game.

Central mid is now a concern but maybe being forced into a more offensive line-up might get us going. Disappointing today but let's not dwell on it and let's move on to the next game, which admittedly is must-win for the sake of confidence and optimism We hardly ever win the opener!!

Marc Hints
89 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:50:57
Blimey, some moaners on here. Since when do we deserve the right to be beating Palace, next we have the right to win the league. Villa beating Spurs at their ground so far, perhaps we should all go and moan on their forum as well about Spurs should be winning.

A good result today, a point with 10 men, clean sheet in awful windy conditions. New signings being slated already, why? I remember seeing Fellaini against Liverpool and they were laughing at how off-the-pace and awful he looked. Different league and country to settle into, give them time.

This squad is the best I've seen for a while and January and next summer will be even better. We are going in the right direction.

Sam Hoare
90 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:54:19
Disappointing result but getting a point away from home with 10 men is far from the end of the world.

I'm pleased Gbamin got on early as he will have learnt a lot. He needs to adapt quickly if Gomes's injury is serious though Silva says it is not.

Throughout pre-season, we struggled to create opportunities. As we did last season. We rely too much on the flanks and counter-attacks. Iwobi could help with this but Silva needs to find other ways of attacking and scoring.

Shame not to get 3 points but at least we're not Watford. Let's rub salt in their wounds next weekend.

ps: Many mocked Villa for spending £26m on Mings but he's looked good. Maybe we should have offered £30m!

Dermot Byrne
91 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:04:44
I love our club and my other two interests are Bury and Bolton.

Great day for us!

Dermot Byrne
93 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:06:14
Marc..enough sensible perspective!
Chris Corn
94 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:06:53
Zaha certainly didn't look like he was the answer...
Darren Murphy
95 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:09:59
Best shit performance all season...

"Top 6 for us" Go take your Meds, lads

Some of us go to matches and this was pure rubbish against relegation fodder. We're supposed to win against lower opposition if we're going to better last season's almighty 8th.

Onwards and upwards... thank god I live nearby.

Oliver Molloy
96 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:11:09
Don't understand anyone who is saying this result against Palace is not a disappointment, it is you know.

I agree with Gary Hughes @ 63 in his assessment regards the lack of desire to win the likes of these games. We needed a Costa and should have gone and got him.

To those who are saying it's early days, yes it is and we already have dropped two points! Watford next week at our place, will be harder than this, I predict.

Darren Murphy
97 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:11:14
Yeah Chris he was on the pitch for 2 minutes ffs
Marc Hints
98 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:13:06
Thanks Dermot
Jerome Shields
99 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:15:46
I thought all the defenders played well. Keane Mina partnership was solid.

Schneiderlin did play well first half, but his tackling is off the pace of Gueye and therefore is late. Gomes played well. Sigurdsson didn't provide any telling passes in the final third and missed chances. Think Iwobi should replace him. Calvert-Lewin held up the ball well and lead the high press, but was never going to be provided with balls to run on to , on the turn. He wasn't well positioned for any crosses.

Richarlision was channelled by the Palace defense and ineffective. Bernard seemed off the pace. Kean has good positional sense and can get tbere. Gbamin was way off the pace. The finishing was woeful.

There are Everton players that are not fit enough.

Jim Bennings
100 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:17:19
Harry Kane scores to put Spurs 2-1 ahead, see that’s what happens when a striker can get you goals.

It’s all well and good bemoaning bad service but our number 9 is nowhere near aggressive enough, nowhere near clinical enough and basically just nowhere near a top 6 footballer for the position he currently occupies.

Moise Kean simply has to come good and fast otherwise it’s yet another season in bloody transition.

Michael Kenrick
101 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:17:23
Marc, funny that you should mention Spurs in your condemnation of Evertonians on here who are rightly expecting more from this club, including the new players and the manager. Their French league debutant plays from the start and scores. They come back to claim all three points. They are playing as a top-6 side; we are not.

It truly depresses me when fellow Evertonians make excuses and rationalizations for our continued failure not to live up to our sad and sorry old motto.

Now Spurs 3 - 1 Villa.

Tony Hill
102 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:19:53
Sorry, Marc, @89, we were fundamentally clueless against a poor team.

The road to recovery requires us to acknowledge when we’ve made a mess of it and we did so today. It was the sort of half-arsed, incoherent performance that we have to leave behind - quickly.

Fraser Auld
103 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:22:02
Morgan Schneiderlin should have been binned ages ago; nowhere, nowhere near the character needed to be an Everton player. Utterly pathetic that we've had people desperately clinging to him being good enough to be a squad player, let alone in the team after a few decent games towards the end of last season. I despair, a gutless weasel of a player and the antithesis is NSNO. There's no defending him.

As for the rest, sadly predictable and shows up the happy clappers claiming that was a good transfer window – it wasn't. The massive difference between us and top 6 last season was the amount of goals in the team; we didn't address that, we haven't added goals and still rely on Richarlison and Sigurdsson — if they're not scoring who is?

Michael Barrett
104 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:22:14
They're not now, Marc. Spurs have a proper striker.

It just looks like something wrong at Everton, they don't seem to fight for each other...

Anyway, let's batter Watford next, game!

Chris Corn
105 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:23:20
Darren, he was on for a good 20 mins and, regardless of that, I'm glad we didn't spend north of £100m with wages for player with a 1-in-6 strike rate. I'm a season ticket holder as well by the way.

Marc, you will probably realise that positivity has no place on this site. Buying a load of players for £100's of millions and never selling anyone so we can have a massive net spend is the way forward apparently.

Marc Hints
106 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:26:57

That's because we are not a top six club at the moment and as you say fellow Evertonians need to realise that. It's not an excuse at all. Yes, maybe the Spurs new boy scored, but blimey I could name a lot of players from abroad who struggled in their first season then became great players.

We are a club that has gone downhill for years and now we are moving in the right direction for the first time in a long time, it will take some time and a few more transfer windows yet to become a top-six club.

Ciarán McGlone
107 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:32:06

Do you accept that we, as fans, are entitled to critique each games as it happens?

Marc Hints
108 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:33:14

Yes noticed positivity on this site has no place.

John Keating
109 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:35:16
Sad when some make excuses such as it was only the first game of the season...well it was for everyone else too!!

Well some of our players have been away on international duty. so have other teams.

Our new lads haven't had a full preseason well that applies to all Clubs.

They're in a new country and don't speak the lingo do you mean like every other teams new signings.

It's amazing the excuses we find for a totally inept and crap performance. Why can't we just accept that there are no excuses and that we were woeful and if we don't put a bit more effort in we won't even finish in last seasons position.

Kim Vivian
110 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:35:26
Palace supporters baying for Zaha and treat him like the Messiah when he appears. Made no real impact though but showed a couple of nice touches. I wouldn't mind seeing him in a blue shirt but not for the money being mooted. Not the Messiah in my book.

Moise Kean however looks very tidy. Didn't get much service but was making intelligent runs and looked very enthusiastic for the half hour he was on. Someone above mentioned the ball through from Richy. When these two get rocking there's going to be some defenses shitting themselves.
Mina and Keane looked sound, defense clean sheet but Palace are pretty shite. I think they'll go down this year, especially with Zaha's head stuck up his own arse. Coleman put in a shift by why on earth won't he put the ball in the box when he gets the chance. Too often trying to beat his man to get to the byline only to spunk possession. Bernard runs round in circles but you do feel when he's on the ball that it is likely to end up with one of our men. Siggy was Siggy - an enigma to me. Needs a bit more pizzazz to his game. Gomes disappointed me. Its the first time I've got to see him but was not as creative as I expected. Any news on his injury?
DCL will continue to confound and divide opinion. He is a worker and doesn't shirk. I so much hope he can be a provider for Richy and Moisey, and bag a few himself. He's not the waster that so many paint him as but time will be running out for him soon. Schneids is a twat. Just not a calm man. I feel he may be pressurising himself overly. Clearly Silva sees something but training is not match time under the microscope, so maybe a bit of sports psychology for him.
Back to Gbamin. I don't know if he is supposed to be a Gana replacement but showed nerves today. I didn't think he was too bad, and better if I'm honest than I remember Gana being when he started playing for us. It really was the last half of last season that he really earned his colours and we tend to forget that. He's received a lot of stick on here in the past. Tom D was solid and seems to have bulked up a bit. I sense a good season beckons for him.
So all in all a disappointing day but not one for despondency. We should have brought three points home on the day but the Palace contingent will be ruing Pickford's two second half saves which kept us in the match, so I guess we can't grumble too much.
Watford next. Lets see a hatful boys!

Eric Paul
111 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:36:19
Is that the mighty Watford who got twatted at home by the even mightier Brighton.
We should have taken Siggy off, put Bernard number 10 and gone kean, DCL and Richalison up top, after DCL went off the ball kept coming back at us especially after the sending off. Is punching the pitch really a yellow card
Marc Hints
112 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:37:02

Yes of course that's what forums are for. I'm just the same as everyone else to have a say, just wish a bit more positivity. But suppose we all see the games, running of the club differently and have our own opinions

Dave Lynch
114 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:37:57
Jesus there are some drama queens on here.

Ok it wasn't the win near everyone expected, the bottom line is the new signings came in late, they will take a little bit of time to settle in and get used to the pace of the prem.

I expect a totally different team next week and a more positive attitude, we didn't lose for gods sake.

A week is a long time in football and a weeks training will put a few things right of that I'm sure.

Michael Kenrick
115 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:38:57
Marc, everyone and their mother knows we're not a top-six club. And that's the point here. We never will be with a performance like that — not having the belief to play our new stars, sticking with the old players who just continued again to disappoint in exactly the same way as they have done before.

Looking ahead to more transfer windows that are months and years in the future as some panacea for the lack of spirit and belief and desire to win at all costs that we failed to see today, when it really counts, is something I cannot get my head around.

Jam tomorrow...? Sorry, but no thanks. I want to see a lot more from this lot... TODAY. You know they are capable of it. We as fans need to make sure they know it and pull their tripe out to be their absolute best. I will not lower my expectations until I see them doing that.

Jerome Shields
116 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:39:52
Chris # 94

Glad we didn't get Zaha.

John Hammond
117 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:42:02
Jesus the amount of negativity on here is embarrassing. Like a point and clean sheet away from home on the first day of season is the absolute worst result. Get a grip!

On another day we're 2 or 3 up at half time. At the moment the ball's not going in - just one of those things.

Perhaps we'll see Kean and Iwobi starting the Watford game.

Jamie Crowley
118 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:42:40
Marc @ 106 -

We're moving in the right direction, fair enough.

But when you travel to an inferior team's ground and come up with only a point, all the while seeing the following:

- a bright young kid on the bench in favor of Schneiderlin

- Schneiderlin sent off

- Gilfy brain dead and playing shite

- our defense, despite claims of them being good today, giving up two one on ones and allowing holes to open up, the likes better opposition would absolutely punish

- a manager waiting too long for at least one sub, and I'd argue two, accepting a level of play on the pitch that is substandard

It's just not good enough, Marc!

FFS, we've had people on here (one's I respect entirely) citing our past troubles when traveling to London as a reason to be happy to have garnered a fucking point off the Mighty Palace.

If we are ever going to succeed as a Club, and put lesser opposition to the sword, I don't give a flying fuck if the game is in Toronto Canada! It's the, "we're traveling to London, that game is going to be a tough one" mindset we absolutely must shake! The mindset needs to be, "we're playing an inferior team, we need three points."

People dismissing this analysis and claiming anyone who is critical as a "moaner" are entirely missing the point.

Raise the bar man! We have a team that, in my opinion, we're entitled to expect more from.

We're certainly entitled to expect three full points from a shit team without their superstar!

That's not moaning!

I despair!! Don't reach for that brass ring, you might pull a muscle!!

Marc Hints
119 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:42:43

Ok yes I can see where your coming from and perhaps your right and players need to know too. I'm probably just trying to be positive and see positives out of negatives. But yes understand what you mean. Apologies if it came across to make you feel aggrieved.

Oliver Molloy
120 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:43:39
I would say that Watford are a better side than Palace and getting hammered at home by as you say by the mighty Brighton will have us facing a side that will be looking to make amends, that's what I mean.

Eric Paul
121 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:44:27

Why do you think we are not a top 6 side?

Eric Paul
122 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:47:08
And we won't want to win at home, will we?
Chris Corn
123 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:47:25
Marc, I was under no illusions that we will see more of the same this season regardless of the transfer window. Whether Gana and Zouma stayed or we brought in the likes of Zaha or Doucore would make minimal difference in my opinion. We are operating in a saturated market of lower-tier over-priced players and the top players we really need to breach the top 6 remain out of our reach despite spending the best part of £0.4b in the last 3½ years.

There needs to be a sense of realism and I think bridging the points gap between us and the top 6 and a good tilt at silverware would be progress this season.

I am a 46-year-old season ticket holder who has seen us as one of Europe's best and escaping relegation so any matchgoing 'super supporters' who start telling me I have no ambition can go and do one. I am a realist and have got sick of hearing the likes of Tom Davies get dogs abuse whilst hearing all the moaners go on because we didn't get a 4th choice centre-half in.

Dermot Byrne
124 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:47:32
Michael... with respect, that is a tad short-sighted

We have been and probably still are the best below the best teams and have bought wisely.

To shout TODAY is understandable but so is the desire for world peace the day after. This will be a team that will develop well and have us cheering happily soon.

But at the risk of boring myself with repetition, I believe strongly that the strategy is to get to our best team (and maybe manager) to coincide with the new ground. Keeps me going.

Michael Kenrick
125 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:49:39
Eric, look at the table.

Guess where we are.


Guess where we finished last season?


And the season before...


We are not a top-six club. Yet. But there is no reason why we cannot be from next week onwards. In fact, with a win today that we should have achieved with our first-half superiority, we would be already! But that's football!!!

Brian Williams
126 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:52:13
It's over-reaction time on TW once again.

Yeh, we're all disappointed but the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth is way over the top. We could, and should, have won if we'd have taken our early chances but some of our play was poor.

Marc Hints
127 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:52:40

Same here and just trying to put things into perspective and be positive. Just felt a bit fed up of moaning as you are. But I can understand comments like Michael's as well as we are all different.

Eric Paul
128 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:54:37

I'm sure the table after game one has no bearing on the table after game 38 and I'm sure we have had worse starts than an away draw and a clean sheet and finished a lot higher than 6th. But I might be wrong.

Chris Corn
129 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:54:42
Marc, stick to your guns lad. Support your team. Your opinion is as valid as the naysayers. I hear Doucoure netted today.
Jamie Crowley
130 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:55:35
Brian @ 126 -

It's not over the top.

We could, and should, have won if we'd have taken our early chances but some of our play was poor

You're correct! But we didn't win. And there were performances and decisions that weren't good enough.

Time to expect and demand more. Or we'll be sitting here in five year's time, finishing 8th, still waiting on BMD to be built.

I don't think anyone should be satisfied with today, or accept that a point against Palace is acceptable.

Anywho, broken record from me. Have a nice day.

Marc Hints
131 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:58:04
Cheers, Chris, I try to but, at the same time, don't want to upset anyone either. I'll always support the blues... and yes, I did see he scored a good own goal.
Danny Broderick
133 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:02:45
I didn't see the game today. But I'm pleased we got another clean sheet. Following on from the end of last season, we appear to have a well-organised defence.

I see Schneiderlin has let us down again though. And a lack of goals in this team was apparent in pre-season. If we play Calvert-Lewin, Bernard, Schniderlin and Gomes, our only hope of scoring is Richarlison or Sigurdsson. And they both have the same weakness for me – they go missing most of the time. At the end of the season, they have a dozen goals and a handful of assists and everyone thinks they are the bees' knees. But in reality, they do not offer enough over 90 minutes in games.

Hopefully Iwobi can get more goals than Bernard, and Kean more goals than Calvert-Lewin, and we can tweak things to carry on our good form from the end of last season. I'm not too concerned about the result today. I have seen us look like world beaters on day one and finish up as also-rans. I have also seen us get battered on the opening day and win the league. Perspective please!

Tony Abrahams
134 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:09:51
Eric @111, good point, and much better than the one Everton made or gained today mate!

Early days, played some decent stuff, but when you have got a midfielder who only shows aggression by punching the turf, then you know you've still got a lot to work on?

Good teams inject pace into their play, and Everton, for all their possession, just didn't try and do enough of this today.

John Keating
135 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:10:12
Seems strange that we are forever told that we, as supporters, should not accept mediocrity, in fact we are told that those who accept it are part of the problem we have as a Club.

For too long we have had no financial support from the Board. Finishing in EL positions is not good enough. We need to push on. Get back to being a top team and compete with the likes of Spurs, Arsenal etc.

It's a great outlook to have and quite right.

However when we witness a shit performance against a team we really should be beating in order to move us on and comment on it we are moaners, not realists. We don't understand all the excuses as to why we couldn't beat Palace.

So the answer is we just say every game we play is fantastic regardless of the result or performance, or, we just accept we are a mid table entity.
Seems you can't win.

If we play well then say it, if we don't then say it.

Chris Corn
136 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:12:22
In defence of Scheniderlin, Danny, Milivojevic persistently fouled, pulled Richarlison back by his shirt as he got away from him, and took someone out in the centre circle yet escaped with a yellow card. Poor consistency by a poor ref.
Ciarán McGlone
137 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:14:00
'Perspective' is a word that should be reserved for technical drawing and philosophy.

This is football.. and Everton.

Jamie Crowley
138 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:15:18
My philosophy is we need to change our perspective.

How's that?

George Cumiskey
139 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:15:22
Why are some people saying bigger teams than us will struggle against Palace? They were crap, lucky for us.
James Stewart
140 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:15:39
Utter rubbish. Negative mindset from the get-go with that starting 11 and it only got worse from there. Once again, we start the season with deadbeats and passengers in the team. We had all summer to sort this out.

No shape and the midfield looks a total mess. Richarlison is wasted on the right as he is hardly ever near the box, while Bernard does what exactly on the left?

To be fair to Palace, who easily could have won the game, it was more like a point gained for us, with Pickford solely responsible for it.

Tony Abrahams
141 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:18:57
I'd love to be given a job judging referees, Chris, because if football is a game of mistakes, then people like Jon Moss, getting to referee games in the Premier League has got to be the biggest mistake of the lot.

Ciarán McGlone
142 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:19:37
Seems fairly fluid as a philosophy, Jamie...
Tony Abrahams
143 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:20:42
Even though Everton had the better chances, James?
Jamie Crowley
144 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:20:52

As I respect your contributions and intelligence, Ciaran, I'll run with that.

Michael Barrett
145 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:21:22
John 135, I couldn't have explained it better myself. Here in the city centre, the other lot have still got the bloody banners hanging from balconies, so all I ask is a team and manager singing off the same hymn sheet. But it looks like there's 2 or 3 players that know we don't want them, so they don't give a fuck, and that's worrying till they're gone at least.
Kevin Molloy
146 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:21:50
Tempting though it is to be slagging off Schneiderlin tonight, he is going to be absolutely vital to Everton this season. Because there is no way Gbamin is taking over the Gana role, well not this season anyway. He is too inexperienced. And I'm not sure he will ever be that sort of player. He seems to me to be more of an all-actioner, Fellaini type.
Marc Hints
147 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:22:12
I have obviously annoyed or upset some people which was not my intention at all so I can only apologise if I have. I was just having an opinion the same as everyone else. Think I'll leave the site.
Tony Abrahams
148 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:25:16
If Schneiderlin is going to be vital to Everton this season, then every perspective and philosophy tells me we are absolutely fucked.
Kevin Molloy
149 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:28:03
it's gonna be a wild ride, Tony.
Andy Crooks
150 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:29:13
I should have known. Last night I defended Schneiderlin, what unfolded was inevitable. Thought he did okay up till then, though.

However, some things do not change. Everton are never as good as I think. We will though, win next week. If not, I will accept responsibility.

Dave Abrahams
151 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:30:45
Marc (147), don't be foolish, you didn't do anything or say anything that was out of place. You gave an opinion that you were perfectly entitled to give. Stick around mate you will get used to the site, plenty of us will listen to your points of view.
Chris Leyland
153 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:32:52
New season but same old negativity on here. It's a good job we didn't have ToffeeWeb in the 1984-85 season when we lost the opening game of the season 4-1 at home to Spurs...

“That midfield duo of Reid and Bracewell simply aren't good enough and will just get over-run all year”

“Why Kendall persists with that welsh fella in goal, I'll never know as he was easily beaten 4 times today.”

“What is the point of playing Trevor Steven out wide and why, oh why does he insist on the slow-paced Sheedy on the left when he can't tackle?”

“Don't get me started on Ratcliffe. We desperately need a new centre half to replace him.”

Chris Corn
155 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:34:23
Marc, if you feel that way, it is no fault of yours, mate. Despite the soundbites, you will see that, when we beat top opposition, it is because they are a poor side.

Ciarán McGlone
156 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:34:25

Thick skin required lad.

You haven't upset anyone. Keep trucking.

Don Alexander
157 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:36:29
Marc Hints, nail on the head re your right to state your opinion! Please keep 'em coming.
Marc Hints
158 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:38:23
Cheers Dave and Chris. Ciaran, yes, you're right, I need to be more thick-skinned I think.
Marc Hints
159 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:39:47
Thanks Don
Andy Crooks
160 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:41:20
Marc, catch a grip. Your view is as valid as anyone's. This site is becoming anaemic. It used to be a forum for no holds barred debate, like your local pub. Not any more.
Tony Abrahams
161 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:41:23
Way too early to judge imo, Kevin, but if Schneiderlin is absolutely vital, I don't envisage anything wild, just fear and loathing, watching a team going side to side, and playing without the ability to inject any pace into the game, which is a very frightening thought.
Marc Hints
162 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:43:33
Cheers Andy.
Kevin Molloy
163 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:44:29

Schneiderlin will protect the back four, no more no less. It will hopefully be for the other players to dictate how we play. It's a thankless role, but absolutely vital.

Danny Broderick
164 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:44:33
Fuck me, if Schneiderlin is vital to us this season, we’re in deeper trouble than I thought!!
Eric Paul
165 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:45:01
Chris @ 153,

I very much doubt if there will be a better post than that all season that. Sums up my thoughts, thank you!

Tony Abrahams
166 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:46:52
Kevin@163, couldn’t disagree with you more mate.
Jerome Shields
167 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:48:08
Marc #159

Keep posting. Your post had value points.

Derek Knox
168 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:49:11
Andy @ 150, you know how I feel about Schneiderlin, but he did surprise me up to a point today where he did get more involved, but stupidity prevailed and he let everyone down in the end.

I don't know what has happened with Siggy he was poor pre-season, and carried that on today, you don't expect a player of his quality to have such a poor run, and then carry it on. We all know players are human and can have an off-day, but the seasons opening game for us should have produced a lot, lot, more from all of our players.

Luckily we weren't tested too much by Palace, but the defence coped well all in all, with a couple of great saves from Jordan. Keane and Mina did well, I have to say. We seemed to lack creativity in the middle and up front, and as much as I like DCL he is not a natural striker.

Look forward to seeing you in the Excelsior, and hope you don't need a tin hat with those bold predictions!

Marc Hints
169 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:51:51
Cheers Jerome, after Watford game hopefully a lot of positive posts to put on.
Kevin Molloy
170 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:53:00
Tony, I don't mean to suggest Schneiderlin is some sort of brilliant player, and that you're just not seeing it. Rather, the role he plays is key, and I don't think there is anyone else at the club capable of playing it.
Eric Paul
171 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:53:59

If everyone had the same opinion, it would be a rubbish site and we wouldn't keep coming back to get wound up.

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

Paul Tran
172 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:54:28
It's the lack of discipline and professionalism that annoys me with Schneiderlin. You get a decision against you, you punch the floor repeatedly and get yourself booked. You then make a very rash challenge. Will the referee give you the benefit of the doubt? Don't think so. Their centre back could have had two yellows before his first one, but was canny enough to tone it down afterwards. When you're away from home, you don't make it easy for the referee to give you a card. I can understand the young, naive Richarlison doing what he did a year ago, but an experienced pro like Schneiderlin?

Managers keep picking him, giving him chance after chance. He must be great at Finch Farm; he's like one of those horses that's brilliant on the gallops but useless on the track or stud farm.

He's only going to be vital for us if Gomes, Delph, Gbamin and Davies all get injured at once.

The onus is now on Silva and the players to find the ruthless streak were all looking for.

Kean & Iwobi to start next Saturday. And I'm looking forward to seeing Gbamin when he's actually fit and ready to play.

Kunal Desai
173 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:55:11
All comes to down to strong mentality. That's instilled at the very top and infiltrates its way down. The club remains fragile post the Bill Kenwright era.
Marc Hints
174 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:56:24

Yes, suppose it would be a good result and performance then we can all put positive messages on.

Brian Williams
175 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:57:10
Jamie #130.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that mate. I just think the reaction to a draw in the first game of a long season is over the top by some.

We'll have ups and downs along the way and I think I've just learned to take the rough with the smooth. We can hope and pray for better but I'm afraid, in the cold light of day, we can't "demand" it.

Paul Rimmer
176 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:57:10
How many of our midfielders have a goal in them? Schneiderlin? Gomes? Davies? Gbamin? Bernard? Iwobi? Delph? Therein lies our problem. They should be expected to get at least 5 per season each.
Eric Paul
177 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:57:37

To quote Pep, “Defensive midfielders are not there to make themselves look good but to make other players look better.“

Dermot Byrne
178 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:58:08
Marc, if TW has a tendency to be over-reactive and negative, then it is very important you keep posting.

Some react very quickly, others take a longer view.

One perspective generally annoys the shit out of the other.

C'est la vie.

John Pierce
179 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:59:07
Marc, remember any post despite some fair efforts to disprove the theory has a grain of truth to it however twisted with foggy language, however blatant the agenda. Read all, absorb all.

Your post was fine and provides balance. Post game we all are mostly a hot mess! Posts moderate themselves I find as we hit midweek.

Get stuck in!!!

Eric Paul
180 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:59:28
Marc @ 174

Don't bank on it!

Joe Corgan
181 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:59:33
I'm sure it's been said already, and undoubtedly Schneiderlin was a very silly boy, but what was the first yellow for? It looked like it was for his reaction rather than the tackle. He didn't mouth off at the ref or square up to the player involved – he just punched the turf.

It's one of those ones where you could have 10 identical incidents, and you'd only get a booking for two of them.

Jonathan Tasker
182 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:00:03
Nothing will convince me that Marco Silva will ever make it. He had a mediocre record before Everton and it has barely improved since.

When are we going to appoint a great manager? They do exist. Look at the effect Graham Potter has had already at Brighton.

Separately, when we signed Zouma, how come we didn't start looking for his replacement straight away? The clue was in the word “loan”.

As ever, the club is a shambles but don't worry, Bill's a blue and mortgaged his house.

Jim Bennings
183 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:01:21
One real positive that came from today, a clean sheet, but that's it!

If we are to progress on the last five seasons, then we need to start turning these types of away games (Palace are notoriously shit at home) into 3 points.

Our home form is usually solid enough with a minimum of 10 victories but our away form is gash and we barely ever register more than 19 or 20 points on the road, it's just bang average for a pretty big-spending team.

John Pierce
184 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:03:04
PT, he is mentally weak that's why under zero pressure he's fookin Zidane at Finch Farm and gets picked.

Come match day, experienced and physically strong, not one ounce of leadership from him.

A classic Shithouse is our Morgan.

Marc Hints
185 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:03:10
Cheers Dermot and John, advice taken onboard. Midweek posting might be a better idea.
Tony Abrahams
186 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:05:22
I understand what you are saying Kevin, but I’d have to abandon my tactics if I was the manager and Morgan Schneiderlin was the best available player for the role.

I thought he was doing okay to a point, but it’s only a thankless role, if you don’t look like you are enjoying it, and I personally think that whoever plays this position, should be constantly cajoling everyone around him?

Gbamin struggled at times today, but I think this could be a role that is taylor-made for him, although I agree that whoever plays there needs a lot more movement in-front of them.

Paul Tran
187 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:07:23
That's my point, John. He's not going to change now, is he? Just like his mate Mirallas, looks & acts tough when it doesn't matter, goes missing when it does.
Derek Knox
188 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:08:47
While I appreciate Jean-Philippe Gbamin wasn't really ready in terms of match readiness until his forced introduction into the game, he did show as he settled in that he may be a decent acquisition, and will probably be forced to step up again at home against Watford.

It wouldn't bother me if Schneiderlin was shipped out before the Euro Window closure either. Before some say we can't, or whatever in his defence, I remember reading that Sidibe who is basically cover for Seamus can also play in midfield if called upon.

Hope Gomes's injury is only minor, as it all seemed to deteriorate further today when he went off, but it is not fair to lay any blame at Gbamin's door. I had hoped that Tom Davies would have been on from the start in Schneiderlin's role but seemed to be in the minority, and the lad played okay when he came on.

Marc Hints
189 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:12:57
John, Tony

I also read somewhere that iwobi also played in the middle sometimes for arsenal so maybe an option next weekend if Gomes is injured as Morgan is suspended

Michael Kenrick
190 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:13:45
Here's the thing, Marc. You swing in on this thread with your very first post, throwing out "moaners" as your first and foremost thought for anyone who dares to call the game as they saw it. That's just insulting.

It's devaluing their opinions in one fell swoop, while insisting that we all have to make "positive" posts — in other words, brush all the inadequacies we saw today under the carpet and pretend everything is going to be rosy tomorrow.

Some people are good with that, but not everyone. Others would rather have it told like it is. No sugar-coating, no happy clapping — just honest opinion on how we performed and where we are as a team, and some aspiration that at least pays lip-service to our almost forgotten motto. Have you ever seen the famous "Nothing but the Best" clip of Sir John Moores?

"I have obviously annoyed or upset some people which was not my intention at all so I can only apologise if I have."

Thanks, I'll take that as an apology for you calling a bunch of posters on here "moaners" when all they're doing is giving their honest opinion of what they saw today.

"Think I'll leave the site."

But there's absolutely no need for flouncing off pouting. Just put your view forward without insulting others. That's all.

Tony Abrahams
191 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:15:36
Derek, if John P, is correct, then I think getting him out the club now would be a better solution than keeping him, but I’ve felt this way about Snides, for way too long now mate.
Steven Astley
192 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:16:28
Anyone else feel the failure to sign Zaha is a massive missed opportunity?

Besides its appearance to others of our intent, he is the real deal. He's physically very strong, he's a nuisance and can be deployed in lots of systems, or as shown today off the bench. Other teams and their back lines really fear him.

I for one would have been happy to pay whatever Palace wanted. £100m, so be it. We've just had £10m off them for someone who hasn't played for 2 seasons.

I'll be praying we get him in January, but I doubt it.

Andy Crooks
194 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:20:05
Michael, are you in a bad mood? Hope not, because I am working on a Walter Smith piece that I hope you put on the site.
Paul Tran
195 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:22:32
Tony, John is completely correct, but it's hard to get rid of a player that either no-one else wants or won't match his wages. I'd consider myself a reasonable, second/third chance person, but if we're going to bother the top six, I don't think it'll be with him in the team.
Chris Leyland
196 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:25:00
Michael, there’s a bit of irony in your post where you point out the error of Marc’s ways in talking about ‘moaners’ whilst then talking about ‘happy clapping.’

Some people give a negative view and are castigated as ‘moaners’ whereas others see the positives and are accused of being ‘happy clappers’. Both are pejorative terms designed to demean the other side. Neither one is right all the time.

Andy Crooks
197 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:26:27
Tony, 191, there us no other thread to catch you so, have a great holiday and thank you. By the way, if you ever wish to re visit the days of your youth football, you will always have somewhere to stay.
Andy Crooks
198 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:26:28
Tony, 191, there us no other thread to catch you so, have a great holiday and thank you. By the way, if you ever wish to re visit the days of your youth football you will always have somewhere to stay.
Oliver Molloy
199 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:28:05
Woo hoo!!! We drew against Palace today who didn't even start their best and most dangerous player, what a result!

For fuck's sake, being disappointed with us not winning against a side who will be scraping all season to avoid relegation is not being negative or moaning, it is being fucking realistic in my opinion.

Not good enough to where we need to get to – simple.

Tommy Carter
200 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:28:06
Unfortunately, I couldn't make the game today.

Just how bad was Gbamin?

Tony Abrahams
201 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:28:19
You don’t even have to think Paul!

All rumours but if he can go to Turkey, then I personally think that would be better for everyone concerned, especially Silva, who might just find a better system to suit his squad, instead of giving players thankless roles in the first place!

Lyndon Lloyd
202 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:33:02
Tommy (200): Unfortunately I couldn’t make the game today.
Just how bad was Gbamin?

He got caught in possession twice and passed straight to a Palace shirt once, two of those incidents leading to Palace chances on goal and he looked unfit/lacking in match sharpness which is patently is.

Otherwise, he looked composed on the ball, always looked to go forwards and didn't hide. He got an early lesson that you have no time on the ball in the Premier League, particularly against a side like Palace. It wasn't a baptism of fire because he wasn't swamped and we didn't lose so it could turn out to be just what he needed.

As others have pointed out, Fellaini had a similarly shaky start in a new league and he turned out just fine. It is ridiculously premature to be making any sort of judgement on him either way.

Dave Williams
203 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:33:23
Could and should be better but a point away with 10 men is not bad in isolation.

The new lads will take half-a-dozen games to settle in so a few stray passes are to be expected. The centre-backs were very good and offer hope that the inability to get Zouma will not be the fatal blow that some have feared. Morgan is what we expect and never a first pick. Maybe he will go abroad after all this month?

Calvert-Lewin splits opinion and I have defended him with the passion and determination we expect from our centre-backs! He took his usual amount of stick today but I think he did fine and Moise Kean will be better with Calvert-Lewin alongside him.

Pickford was excellent. We have Delph and Iwobi to come in and Gomes looked decent until the injury. I am optimistic that the team will settle after a few games to be the best we have had since 1986-87. I hope the fans give them time and encouragement; early criticism is understandable but won't be helpful, especially to foreign youngsters trying to settle in a strange country, away from family and friends and struggling with the lingo.

A decent win next week will help us no end.

Marc Hints
204 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:35:35

As I have said there was no intention of upsetting/insulting others. Glad that you have accepted my apology. I will watch what I say in future.

John Atkins
205 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:37:10
Spot on, Dave Williams!
John Pierce
206 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:38:17
Lyndon, I probably should admit this, but when he got mugged on the half way line, I spat my drink out and guffawed!

It was as an archetypal introduction to British football as you could get.

Andy Crooks
207 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:38:37
Oliver, I agree and I know that it is petty to be gutted after one game.

Every year, I think this is it. Now I know that a point on the first day is okay. I know a draw in London is okay, I know we will be fine, I know we will beat Watford next week.

What I know, though, after one game, with total certainty is, that this is, absolutely, totally not fucking IT.

Ciarán McGlone
208 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:39:36

I would like to think Gbamin wasn't bad, but simply unaccustomed.

There were glimpses of the player he will be... even with the naivety.

Mark Tanton
209 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:46:02
Gbamin was always showing for the ball and you could see the player in there. He made some mistakes and looked flustered at first but I think he found his feet quickly. 6/10.
Grant Rorrison
210 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:47:43
Michael 101. So you think Gbamin would have scored if he had started? :O
Tony Abrahams
211 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:49:30
Enjoyed these last few posts, but maybe a player that likes to play forward, will often get caught in possession when he hasn’t got a lot of options ahead of him?

I know there’s a lot of things to take into consideration, and that the pace of the game in England, catches many players out, but I think we’ve got the nucleus of a very good team, and it’s going to be interesting to see which way Silva, tries to develop it?

Tony Abrahams
212 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:51:52
Thanks for the invite, Andy, but I'm going nowhere near the north of Ireland until the DUP help us get rid of this Conservative government, mate!
Mark Tanton
213 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:52:52
I have to say I thought Moise Kean has that elusive ‘dangerous look’ in and around the final third a couple of times. Can’t quantify or even describe it properly but his movement and the space he found was promising.
Kieran Kinsella
214 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:54:49
Besic had a nightmare debut too, getting caught in possession in that 3-6 loss to Chelsea when he was fannying around on the halfway line, and Besic went on to become. well let's hope the new guy goes the Fellaini route.
Michael Kenrick
215 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:56:19
Good catch, Grant (210).

I was thinking more of Moise Kean, but he's Italian, isn't he? I think we bought him as the striker, and perhaps he would have stood a better chance of getting bedded in quickly – and scoring – if he'd been played from the start.

But we will never know because Marco knows best and he chose to play Calvert-Lewin, who as we all know, ain't the best at getting in the right place in the penalty area or putting the ball in the net.

John Raftery
216 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:56:57
If Silva has started with all of the outfield signings eligible to play, I think we would have been hammered today. As it was, two who came off the bench showed exactly why Silva hadn't picked them to start. They were not ready.
John Pierce
217 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:57:22
Tony, if you love a stat, the one which emphasizes the player we’ve bought in Gbamin is his propensity to lose possession, however this is mostly because he tries to, as your post observes, go forward and impact the game. That is a good starting point imo.
Oliver Molloy
218 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:58:17

Watford next week is a must-win, I hope you are right.

Mosie Keane has to start for me, go make a name for himself.

Dave Williams
219 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:04:58
Oliver, a start in the first home game should inspire him and I agree with you. The bench was a good place to start today so they could get an idea of how the Premier League game is played.
Tony Abrahams
220 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:09:34
Let's hope that too much isn't coached out of him JP, and we get more movement into the team instead.
Sean Kelly
221 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:11:26
Hi folks, good to see the moaners and happy clappers out. Different views and opinions are what makes this forum.

Marc, why apologise when you have an opinion? Nobody else does on here. Whether people agree with you or not, they are your opinions.

If opinions are sanitized on here, it ceases to be an open forum.

Paul Hewitt
222 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:15:41
So people think Man City, Liverpool and Spurs won't drop points against teams they should beat? Course they will, just like us today. Some comments on here today are plain crazy.
Robert Williams
223 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:18:12
Ho, ho Michael. Its been a long day and we're all tired. Tired of 'apologists' tired of 'moaners' and tired of 'mediocrity'.

We are naturally disappointed at today's result; it could have been worse; it can only get better.

Perhaps our motto should be 'Say what you think, but first think what you say'. A lively discussion, let's hope we have a lively season.

Pax Vobiscum!

Kieran Kinsella
224 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:19:51
Today apart, I don't like this top-six fixation. Some years ago, Southall got annoyed when we were aiming for the top four, saying you should aim to win. This gradual acceptance of decline isn't.

I don't know what fields you work in but in mine (finance) they tend to set goals at about 120 percent of what you want to achieve. Logic being you shoot for the stars but hopefully at least hit the moon. If we aim for sixth, then it's reasonable to say “we were pretty close getting 7th or 8th.”

Not saying it's easy or that realistic but I would rather try and win every game than say our aim is to be the 5th best loser before a ball has been kicked.

Tony Abrahams
225 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:25:31
You might upset the realists Kieran, but amen to that mate!
Tommy Carter
226 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:25:40
When people are mentioning Kröldrup and Nyarko then I have to say I'm worried. Usually when a player looks this bad, he often is.

It was like Alcaraz. I remember thinking ‘he can't be this bad? He'll be better after a run of games'. But no. He really was that bad.

Bilyaletdinov started poorly and got worse from there.

McGeady, another. Sandro Ramirez. Klaassen. Bilic. So many we have had where the reputation is strong but they are just garbage.

Kevin Molloy
227 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:28:35
There's something to what you say, Tommy, even after one game. Good players don't put in the opposition clean through on goal like three times in half an hour.
Paul Birmingham
228 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:31:41
It's a typical 1st day under achievement in context of what should have been achieved today. First half they should have been put to the sword on the chances we had, and Silva must coach out, any style finishes, and get back to basics.

If Siggy had scored, I believe we'd have won today, but that's Sigurdsson, his style, but not Messi.

Percentages is not relevant as we don't create enough chances regardless of possession, but let's be brutal and take good chances.

It seems that we've for gotten how to score goals, not just today, but for years.

The reasons on drought set us up for today. Next week, Watford, will be up for a clash, we must win, this game.

Each to their own, we've lost first games at home, and been smashed, but won titles, so plenty to look up to going forward. It's a new squad, but Schneider, kind of sold his soul today; very poor decision-making and lack of respect for his team. It's not the first time, but no excuses today, and now, going into the second game, we are in the crap house, in terms of midfield.

Any way Kenny played, and Schalke won, well.

Early days, so let's be reasonable, all factors, concerned.

Early days but it's frustrating but not all gloom and doom.

Now for Watford, and the Gods will make sure we win.

Tony Abrahams
229 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:39:09
Fuckin hell Kevin, you will have me saying Snides is going to be absolutely vital for us this season next!
Paul Tran
231 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:42:54
Gbamin shouldn't have been on the pitch today. No pre-season, couple of training sessions, said in his presser he'd be ready for the second game. Then he's sent on midway through his first Premier League game. Time will tell, but it's harsh to judge this early.
Raymond Fox
232 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:43:31
While we all would wish to have a win and wonderful performance I think its fair to say its natural to overestimate your own team's ability.
A neutral view was that a draw was most likely outcome of the match, so we shouldn't be too shocked that was how it turned out.

I said pre-match that there are no easy games away from home and I would be content if we drew. If that is thought to be lacking ambition, be that as it may, it was just an honest appraisal.

What grates sometimes is when the criticism or praise, usually criticism, is way over the top.

Peter Jansson
233 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:44:20
#224 Southall still says that we should say that we aim to win the league. ;-)
Kevin Molloy
234 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:46:55
I don't mean to say I'm judging him after one game. Just some very early impressions.
Peter Jansson
235 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:48:41
About Gbamin. I don't know what you have said about him here. Obviously he was a little shocked I guess to play today and got caught a couple of times in the midfield.

However he also showed some glimpses of good football. I think he will improve a lot in a couple of games. So I think we should not worry about today's performance.

Andy Crooks
237 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:55:26
Tommy @226. I had managed to wipe those names from my memory. Thanks for bringing them back!!!
Steavey Buckley
238 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:56:37
Man City and Liverpool go into a new season in the Premier League with regular goalscorers – not just one but two or three. Everton go into a new season hoping there will be regular goal scorers. Hoping is just not good enough to be successful in the Premier League.

Everton's last regular goalscorer has just signed for Inter Milan when he was previously playing for another club down the East Lancs Road... but now he is 800 miles away.

Hugh Jenkins
239 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:01:45
What is our aim?

Neville Southall was and is right.

As has been said in the past, no side enters a war unless they believe they can win.

So what is our aim?

I can do no better than to quote Winston Churchill:-

"You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs — Victory in spite of all terror — Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival."


Raymond Fox
240 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:05:01
That's our problem, Steavey, we can't keep hold of our very best players for long enough.
Paul Hewitt
241 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:17:36
I've heard it all now.... Quoting Winston Churchill!
Paul Birmingham
242 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:20:11
It's like building a new model car, but even with an engine, without a clear game plan and game management plan, it's tough. So let's take the positives: no goals conceded, Pickford made some good saves, and in the first half, with positive finishers, we'd have been at least 3-0 up.

Second half, Pickford saved us.

First game, let's see what pans out, the next four, when we play Man City, will set the gauge, in my view, for this season.

But there's promise and hope, but we can't treat Premier League games like pre-season matches, and friendlies.

We need a “Killer Instinct coach”, as from just seeing Burnley, on MotD, Ashley Barnes has more finishing instinct than ours...

Marco Silva to deliver, ASAP, hopefully.

John Raftery
244 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:28:47
Hugh (239), Every game in the Premier League is a war.
Mike Doyle
245 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:37:03
I was going to suggest it might not be a bad idea to re-sign Gareth Barry on a short term contract. But looks like West Brom have had the same idea.
Eric Paul
246 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:38:39
We should have brought Davies on for Gomes and maybe had a behind closed doors game midweek with the U23s for one or two players in case we need them to play some part next week. But, after watching Watford on MotD, we could just play the U23s and one or two others next week.
Dale Rose
247 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:43:05
If we had been beaten today 4-0, I could understand the moans. We kept a clean sheet and drew the game. We need some time to get the new boys in.

The Premier League is the toughest league in the world. New players need time. If we are turning performances that are poor at Christmas then time to worry. Keep the faith.

Brian Wilkinson
248 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:43:40
4 years ago, I got told by a Blades fan that Calvert-Lewin is not a regular goalscorer and will miss a lot more than he will score. He does not have the awareness to get into a position in the box – that is frpm someone who saw him playing for the first team and reserves.

3 seasons now it has been said he's young, he holds the ball up well, he will come good.... The guy is likeable, but that does not get you regular goals.

How much longer we continue starting Calvert-Lewin, Christ knows... but I certainly hope Kean and Iwobi start the next game.

Eric Paul
249 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:55:32

Calvert-Lewin is never going to be prolific, but he brings a lot more to the team. Do you not think Palace were a better side after he was substituted? Granted, we were reduced to 10 men but we had no-one to hold the ball up top.

Tony Hill
250 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:57:01
It was a bad game for us. The absolute essential is that we develop confidence and mental strength. The lack has been our enduring weakness and it has been fatal for 50 years, a couple of seasons excepted.

We need a leader, a real leader, god knows we do. Could it be Delph?

That’s the thing, though. We must erase our reflex feeling that we’re not quite good enough. We must go for it, right from the start, every single time; every fucking single time.

Ste Traverse
251 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:58:29
You'd think we'd just been relegated with the amount of hysterical beauts we have on here.
Michael Lynch
252 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:13:02
Now the dust has settled after our opening game, the only thing I'm worried about is how long Gomes will be out for. I really hope it's just bruising and he's back next week because we looked poor without him.
Dan Parker
253 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:13:02
We're moving in the right direction, no need to panic. Not the best result but an away point. Still lacking a prolific striker. Kean will hopefully help in that department but harsh to depend on him completely. I still think there's a decent striker in Tosun somewhere.
Danny Baily
254 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:23:11
Not a bad result away from home. Sharpen up and bed the new players in and we'll be taking some of those chances we missed. Barring injury to any of the back four, I think we'll be comfortably safe this year and looking up to boot.
Jerome Shields
255 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:32:50
Kieran #224,

Neville Southall played for a Everton team that could have won every competition they were involved in. The attitude he has is the attitude needed to do that or to win the Champions League.

Getting into the top four without extended runs in the League Cup and FA Cup would mean that Everton would not have sufficient preparation to play in two competitions at a higher level in the following season and would be back to Square One.

It's interesting that Silva this season in a recent press interview, stated that Everton wanted to do well in the League Cup and FA Cup, as well as the Premier League.

Don Alexander
256 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:39:24
Tony Hill (#250) you speak for me too. I don't know what it is about us but there's been no "winning" leadership on the pitch this century and beyond as far as I'm concerned, and that must emanate from Finch Farm, the scouting system and the board (how deep is the sickness Kenwright's inflicted upon us I wonder?)

We are visibly weak in terms of "getting stuck in" and we don't score goals or play attractive football either, a recipe for boredom, hence our last place most every week it seems on MOTD. We deserve it. Finch Farm is where the solution is going to emerge from, but who's still there unable to deliver?

Answers on a dissertation please.

God knows where "winning leaders" are to be found among today's millionaire-by-twenty psueds but until we find a few, of any age, we'll remain a real nonentity in terms of trophies.

Brian Wilkinson
257 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:45:26
Eric, we do not need anyone to hold the ball up, early doors we were getting past their defenders, Bernard, Digne, went past players time and again on overlaps.

We played balls in and around the area with no end product. We need that player who can put those chances away when the ball is delivered; sadly, it is not Lewin.

He has had over two seasons and played regularly. We cannot knock his hold-up play but, with the players we have now working into good positions, we need someone to tuck away those chances.

Steve Bird
258 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:56:09
Brian #248

That mate of yours who was assessing a 17-year-old Calvert-Lewin?

What coaching qualifications does he have because, if he can see what a player is going to become at 17, we need him on board!!

Eric Paul
259 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:57:34

Wow, that is not what's meant by 'hold-up play'.

Si Cooper
260 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:59:35
I'm with the positives. Room for improvement but far too early to say the die has been cast and we are in for a poor season.

There are other clubs who had far worse opening results than us who may reasonably have been expecting better.

Kieran Kinsella
261 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:21:01
Jerome @255,

It sounds like we are still on the same page with Southall. But, whilst his team could win everything, it wasn't always so. By rights, as a dustman from Bury coming into a struggling team, Southall had no basis for his winning attitude. Everyone would've said he was a fool in 1983. But obviously he and the rest tuned out the pundits and the boo boys and knuckled down to hard work.

People say “It was easier in those days.” To which I say "Leicester City". People say that was a one-off. To which I say "Burnley; then Wolves came from nowhere to pip us in the last two years for 7th".

I do think attitude is a factor. When did we accept the top six were just better than us? It wasn't so long ago Newcastle were “big 4” but Gravesen and Co didn't give a shit about that in 2005. I'd just like to see us stop creating ever lower glass ceilings.

Andrew Keatley
262 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:24:29
Oliver (218) and Dave (219) - Do you really have faith in Moise Kean to start the next game after 21 minutes off the bench today? You think today was a successful introduction to the Premier League, and now he's good to go?

I think Kean is 19 years old, and he only ever started a handful of games for Juventus. We need to be patient with him and not expect too much too soon. If he gets a few starts and doesn't impress – or worse (for some on here if Calvert-Lewin is anything to go on) doesn't score any goals, then what?

I'd rather bring him into the team when we have settled into some decent form and he's had a good chance to get to know his team-mates, the coaching staff, the club, the league, and the city. It's a big move at a young age and I think we should be looking to Iwobi to come in and make our attacking unit stronger straight away.

Andrew Presly
263 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:26:49
Bernard is a good lad but this beach football crap has had its sell by date with me. He’s on about 3 times a week what the Palace guys get but can’t get the better of them in 90 mins. Does he worry about that? No he doesn’t.

They (we?) then think Iwobi will improve this.

It’s poor, predictable and boring.

Nicholas Ryan
264 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:31:13
To have a good season, you need to win your home games and draw your away games. So far, so good!
Brian Wilkinson
265 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:35:00
He played 9 times for Sheffield Utd first team with a zero goal return, that is where he was described as not very good in front of goaI, I can only go off what I was told about his airshots and wild snap shots for them, twice going out on loan to lower clubs.

Granted he was much younger than now, but he has certainly had a few seasons in the first team at Everton, many more than any of our other strikers on the books.

He may have a lot of good points, but for me he is not a Premier League striker chasing a top 6 spot who will get well into double figures.

Everyone has different views, I have seen enough of Calvert-Lewin to see he will not get us those goals on a regular basis.

Not sure how good Kean is, but pretty sure with a regular run out, he will put some of those chances away.

Cost us last season missed chances from various players.

We have been crying out for a centre forward, hopefully Kean will get as many chances as Calvert-Lewin has had.

Si Smith
266 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:01:00
I'm not sure half our fans are watching the game I'm watching, I cant see where DCL keeps missing these chances !!!

He is in a typical predicament for Everton strikers were as he doesn't get many clear cut chances, were working on becoming more creative but, from what I saw today once Gomes went off, we created very little.

Bernard looked lively, but Sigurdsson and Richalison wasnt up to there high standards, Calvert-Lewin had one header to go off in 65 minutes (give or take) Kean had nothing to go off for half-an-hour, but the whole of the 2nd half was a none event due to Gomes becoming injured and Schneiderlin getting a red.

Calvert-Lewin is not the finished article, he's not a lethal finisher, but neither are a lot of strikers. For me, Calvert-Lewin is a target man who is extremely fit, quick and hard-working; he will develop along the way but he won't ever be an instinctive finisher.

We have had players like Duncan Ferguson lead our line, he himself was far from lethal, but you have to look at what else we have within our squad, or available to us via the transfer market and be realistic.

Kean looked like he was blowing after 20 minutes up top today, Calvert-Lewin has Tosun and Niasse for competition until Kean is fit enough to start (this or next week, I hope). I'd play him over the above pairing, hopefully Kean will start to score and take so.e of the pressure off Calvert-Lewin and allow him to start scoring without the actual burden.

If I was to blame anyone today, I'd look at Sigurdsson and Coleman for poor misses, plus Richalison should have done better. Imo Calvert-Lewin did very little wrong.

Barry McNally
267 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:06:05
Only 39 points to go!
John Pierce
268 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:18:00
Sorry, Nicholas, to have a good season, you need to beat the dross home and away because we haven't picked up any sort of decent haul from those above us for years.

Drawing at Palace at any time in our history has never been acceptable.

Kieran Kinsella
269 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:22:03

I would not blame Coleman for today with his miss. From minute one, he was going full pelt trying to get at Palace. Okay, he had a shot he missed but he bust his arse and was relentless.

Richarlison and Sigurdsson literally did nothing. Bernard came alive after about 30 mins but was wasteful. Digne worked hard but not much final product. But Coleman is not someone I would single out for criticism today.

Kieran Kinsella
270 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:28:09
Nicholas @264 & John @268,

Nice try tick but you're implying we will take a total of 24 points off the so-called “Big Six”. I'm with John. I actually expected more from Palace today but they were dreadful, there for the taking.

Derek Thomas
271 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:44:37
The problem isn't Calvert-Lewin and it won't be Kean either. Two things (without going all 'Spanish Inquisition') are the problem:

Firstly, a lack of support for the man in the middle, which is a function of how the team is set up; call it 'balance'.

Secondly, the lack of chances created... I don't mean those couple of "Ooh, aah" goalmouth scrambles we had.

I don't think there was one chance were Calvert-Lewin's critics, of whom there are many, could point to and say – there, see, a decent striker would've buried that.

Bernard had one chance and bottled it or was too clever.

Schneiderlin, the Ref did us a favour. When he went off, we never missed him and nor will we while he sits out the next 3 games.

Gbamin, his replacement, looks seriously under-done and off the pace... but it is early days for him.

Sigurdsson? Anonymous today and increasingly many other days. How long will Silva and we wait for one of his 4 or 5 decent games a season to turn up???

As one wag commented yesterday, "We used to have three No 10s — now we have none!"

Silva; the window is shut, so he can't get any more players to fit whatever magic system he has us playing in his head.

Find one that DOES work, mate, not one that SHOULD work.

Michael Kenrick
272 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:03:23
Some posters smarter than me have said it already, Si. Calvert-Lewin just did not get into the right positions.

At key moments, he was the wrong side of the defender and the ball never got him: the defender intercepted and cleared.

It's getting beyond a joke how we've heard all these detailed analyses of Calvert-Lewin's fantastic contributions to team play, but the bottom line is: he hardly ever scores (admittedly, just like the rest of our team). That is now our perennial problem. Kean and Iwobi seem to be the impending solutions. Let's bloody hope so!!!

Phil Sammon
273 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:31:27
Jonathan @182,

"When are we going to appoint a great manager? They do exist. Look at the effect Graham Potter has had already at Brighton."

I can just imagine the scenes if we fired Silva and appointed Graham Potter. Hardly a renowned ‘Great' of the managerial world...

Steve Brown
274 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:37:33
Good summary, Derek @ 271.

The midfield collapsed in the second half, Digne and Bernard did not link up well on the left, Sigurdsson was still on vacation. In fact, the only players who performed well were Keane, Mina and Pickford.

Yet the main focus of our frustration is Calvert-Lewin?! Messi could have played yesterday and not got a kick. Continuing to heap all our performance issues on this young forward is actually becoming risible.

Henry Lloyd
275 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:43:32

(Just joking — In case my age or brain power is questioned by a certain poster.)

Pretty pathetic showing from Everton is what I will say because it is 100 percent true and factual.

Steve Brown
276 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:51:24
Gbamin did lose possession, but at least he showed for the ball and tried to influence play. He will be an asset when he gets to work with the team more. What struck me was his physical strength and size, he is going to be dominant in front of the defence.

Like the team, let's give him time. They have barely trained together and it will take a couple of games to integrate them all in. Kean will start next week and Iwobi will get some playing time. Then let's judge.

Two home wins and the start to the season will look bright.

Mike Gaynes
277 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:25:44
PT #231, I liked Gbamin's effort and physicality, if not his product. Loved the way he shoved big Benteke right off the ball and took it. That lunker had a "WTF?" look on his face that was priceless.

Gbamin will be fine when he adjusts to the pace of the Premier League.

Annika Herbert
278 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:27:34
Jonathon @182, are you really calling Graham Potter a great manager after 1 game?!! Whilst I disagree with your opinion of Silva, I accept that as your opinion. But to class Potter as a great manager is simply laughable!
Paul Burns
279 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:33:26
Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. Why can't anyone run with the fucken ball?

Palace caused havoc in that second half with players belting forward at pace and tore us open a few times.

We never create one-on-one chances because no-one carries the ball and our forwards have to play with their backs to goal.

How come the genius that is (apparently) Brands and the idiot that is Silva can't see it? Messi wouldn't get many at Everton the way the teams set up to play, it's fucken torture to watch.

Ian Lloyd
280 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:34:04
I'm sorry but I'm tired of hearing “Calvert-Lewin brings a lot more to the team than goals”.

He is supposed to be a Number 9 – ie, the main striker! If we and Marco are happy to have a Number 9 who scores 6 goals a season (at best), then we truly are in a shocking state!

It's not rocket science to see that the top 6 teams all have at least one striker who can score 20+ goals a season.

Paul Ward
281 Posted 11/08/2019 at 05:16:27
I am in full agreement with Micheal Kenrick #115 regarding the current status of this club.

Derek Thomas #172, may have posted the best post of this thread. His assessment is unbiased, realistic and thought-provoking about the system we are trying to play.

Like most, I was a bit disappointed to see the team sheet but accepted there maybe fitness problems with certain players. What I was not prepared for was the same old long-winded build-up of sideways and backwards passes that have one aim. That aim is to fuck around on both wings until you lose it. The chance of the ball being passed to our lone striker in the area is so remote, yet we accept it.

The posters on here who are not against Calvert-Lewin and wish to see him as a twin striker... forget it because Silva will only play one striker.

Phil Sammon
282 Posted 11/08/2019 at 05:36:13
Ian #280,

Do you think Calvert-Lewin would get 6 goals if he was playing up front for Spurs or Liverpool?

Other teams create chances for their strikers. I don't rate Calvert-Lewin that highly, but right now he has a thankless job.

Jamie Crowley
283 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:05:19
I feel compelled to copy and paste a post. From a person on TW whom I respect.

Sir John Pierce:

Sorry, Nicholas, to have a good season, you need to beat the dross home and away because we haven't picked up any sort of decent haul from those above us for years.

Drawing at Palace at any time in our history has never been acceptable.

That's my feeling too, and I couldn't agree more.

That's the whole crux of the issue for me.

Roll on, Watford. Three points.

Ian Lloyd
284 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:13:12
Phil @282 – that's my point, pal – he wouldn't be playing for Spurs or Liverpool because, unfortunately, he isn't good enough.

Kean has to play from the get-go and – as some posters have already said – if we must play Calvert-Lewin, then try him as half of a front two with Kean.

Is two up-front some sort of sacrilege?!?

Jonathan Tasker
285 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:30:08
Annika @278 and Phil @273,

Please look up what Graham Potter did in Sweden and you'll see he's a great manager. My point was that you can see what a difference he has made already after just one match and spending his transfer budget wisely. I'd far rather he was our manager than the absolute fraud that is Silva.

Whilst I'm on, Calvert-Lewin is never going to make it. It's excruciating seeing us persist with him.
Everton will never win anything whilst we remain paralysed with the curse of Kenwright.

Kieran Kinsella
286 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:30:34
Annika @278,

I'm with you. Remember John Gregory at Villa? What was it — 9 wins in a row or something before the wheels came off? Or Solskjaer for that matter.

Potter may prove to be great but one game against a team in a downward spiral is hardly proof of brilliance. Let's not forget, Mike Walker led Norwich to 3rd place.

With regards to Calvert-Lewin, yes, I'm one of those who have defended his all-around game, his movement, assists and intelligence. But yes, it is a reasonable expectation for a striker to score some goals.

Between him and Bernard, my patience is at an end. I see the makings of good players but FFS the Premier League is hardly the place for remedial students. Both these jokers need to produce end result or take up another career.

Nitesh Kanchan
287 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:31:00
Derek #271,

Calvert-Lewin never got into positions in the box where he could take advantage. Kean, for his cameo, you could already see his positions, immediately knew how to get into spaces, one for that pass from Richarlison and another one with Digne, Kean was asking him to put it across the box.

Calvert-Lewin's goalscoring instincts are none at the moment – especially against sides that sit back. Against big six, I would prefer Calvert-Lewin.

Our decision in the final third was awful at times, but we dominated and defensively looked good, except a couple of times Gbamin lost possession and they got one-and-one with Pickford due to that. We can only get better from here.

Sam Hoare
288 Posted 11/08/2019 at 07:55:08
Jamie @283, I think that's a tad simplistic. Last season, Man City and Wolves were beaten by Palace but I'm pretty sure they would both say that they had good seasons!!

Obviously it's not a great result but it's all about context. If we beat Watford next week and manage to turn over Aston Villa away, then 7 points out of 9 looks very healthy and like an extremely positive start to the season. If we lose or draw both those games, then clearly it looks pretty dire.

Generally speaking, I think draws away in the Premier League are tolerable results so long as you're winning at home.

Joe McMahon
289 Posted 11/08/2019 at 07:56:45
Dale @247,

Maybe some of us have had enough of just existing in the Premier League after 28 years of not competing in as you say "the toughest league in the world". Maybe some of us are thinking, after such a long time, we could expect a bit more and to actually exist again as a force. (It's been so long, I've forgotten how it feels!)

We see our neighbours win the European Cup for the 6th time and you are thinking "Aw well... at least Everton are still in the Premier League..." Is it not time, Dale, that our own fans' expectations need to be a bit bigger, or do we just accept that (for example) our No 9 doesn't score... but that's ok becasue he's "a nice lad"?

Fraser Auld
290 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:09:35
I agree with Si Smith, Derek Thomas – we don't create enough chances.

It's not like Calvert-Lewin is missing sitters. Yes, I'm sure his movement could improve and I'm not giving him a free pass. I want to see him being more aggressive around the box but I'm inclined to look at Bernard, Sigurdsson and Richarlison – what did they create?

Put Kean in if you think Calvert-Lewin is the reason why we look blunter than blunt up top. I suspect he'll find the same problem. Guess we'll see....

Kevin Molloy
291 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:23:44
What made this game so disappointing (and I realise it is one game, and our first) is that Palace were absolutely there for the taking, and that we took our anaemic pre-season form straight into the real thing.

What must other fans think when they see Sigurdsson play?

"How much did he cost?"
"I think it was just the £45 million in the end."
"Christ, how old is he?"

We must have been out of our fucking minds...

He made about five key interventions yesterday, all of them to our detriment. And, other than that, he vanished. I mean, how is it possible to just disappear like that, for like half-an-hour at a time???

And not just today, although he's had a full pre-season, I can't remember him even being on the pitch for any of those games. Given that he is in the 'Messi' position for us, it is a bit fucking grim...

Denis Richardson
292 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:30:27
Surprisingly big spectrum of opinions for an opening game. From signs of optimism to almost despair.

At the end of the day, it was a point away from home and a clean sheet which we can build on. Win against Watford next weekend and then take it from there.

Personally, I'm still unsure of Silva but I'm not down about the result. I thought we'd struggle to score and this will hopefully sort itself out once Kean and Iwobi get more imbedded. Calvert-Lewin and Bernard should not be starting regularly imo as neither contributes to the score sheet. They currently represent half our forward line.

Definite cause for cautious optimism but margins are fine. We really need 3 points next weekend to kick-start the season proper.

Jerome Shields
293 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:56:39
Kieran #251,

I posted a post like yours last season on the "Top this and top that" obsession. It seems to be media-lead and suited Everton Football Club from top to bottom, who all doing quite nicely on Premier League money and with Moshiri's additional funds.

Fans latched onto "Top this and top that" as they grasped for any sign of progress. When was the last time the Everton Football Club talked about winning anything? So the 'glass ceiling' mentality is there throughout the club.

Moshiri, Brands and Silva think differently, but they are not in the whole club. The Everton team put out at Selhurst Park was not fit enough and two points were lost that could have won the Premier League at the end of the season. Other clubs who will challenge for the title made sure they won.

Tony Abrahams
294 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:03:34
Fraser, that was exactly my feeling at half-time, with regards the players you mention and Calvert-Lewin.

I agreed with Eric early in the thread, who said we needed to replace Sigurdsson with Bernard because, as Paul B said, we are too much pass, pass, pass, and I would add such very little movement.

We don't spring forward from the middle of the pitch, we don't have a player who just changes direction whilst running forward, and that's where I agree with Kevin for once, because Sigurdsson just wasn't at the races, and looked painfully slow in both thought and movement yesterday.

Trevor Peers
295 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:07:24
Strange how Sigurdsson is picked out for criticism. There was no creative spark from anyone yesterday in midfield, I think Coleman was our most effective creator.

At least Sigurdsson had about our best chances, nobody else even remotely looked liked scoring. We have failed to replace Lukaku and replacing Gylfi will cost £60 to £80 million next time out. The £45 million will look like peanuts.

Our only hope is Iwobi can take some of the pressure off creatively, but we still have the problem of finding a striker who scores consistently which remains our biggest downfall.

Gerry Ring
296 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:10:46
It looked like a “pre-season” game and that to me is the issue. We didn't look ready for the new season. These are the games and points that really matter in the pursuit of a top 5 finish.

No point in being up & running 10 games in! Too late and damage done.

Our pre-season doesn't appear to be at the level required for a team aspiring to be in the top 5.

Tony Abrahams
297 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:18:47
I thought Coleman had our best chance, Trevor, and Richarlison should have hit the target in the second half. I also thought Sigurdsson was unlucky with the one that was cleared off the line.

His other effort was very poor though, just like his little pass that sold Gomes short and resulted in him getting injured.

I like Sigurdsson but I didn't like how he performed yesterday, and just felt if we could have got someone injecting a bit of pace into the team from those central areas, then we might have caused Palace a lot more problems, rather than just constantly playing in front of them.

George Cumiskey
298 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:22:51
The irony is: everyone was worried about the defense, when they played well, and the rest of the team were poor against a very mediocre Palace side who someone actually said will give better teams than us a hard time.
Sam Hoare
299 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:27:12
Fraser @290,

I very much agree. People seem to think that a better goalscorer will naturally mean a boat-load more goals but even the very best will struggle for double figures if opportunities are not being created.

I said this summer that creativity would be one of our big issues and Iwobi is the only transfer that has tried to address that.

We rely hugely on our full-backs to create opportunities and, although I'm not Sigurdsson's biggest fan, he is hampered by a system that attacks almost exclusively down the flanks or on the counter. This is why we struggle so much against packed defences with tall centre-backs. Silva needs to be able to instill more versatile methods of breaking teams down and the ability to build more through the middle.

I think Iwobi can hopefully help with this as he is very good at getting the ball from the middle third into the final third with both dribbling and high amount of completed passes into the final third. Could be that he replaces Barnard or could be that he plays instead of Sigurdsson and gives us a more dynamic central option.

Tony Everan
300 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:40:15
The trouble with replacing Sigurdsson is, he is one of the very few players who knows where the onion bag is.

I thought Richarlison looked a bit more muscular and tougher yesterday, like he had filled out a little over that last few months. That started me thinking about trying again playing him in his preferred role through the centre. I am positive that is where he will end up.

Moise Kean on the wide right, where he will find more space to attack; Iwobi on the left, using his pace. I am sure Silva will consider it at some point, it is the recipe for a successful and dynamic front 3.

Class, youth and pace from all angles is a potent combination as long as the wide men can be taught to track back and defend, like Richarlison and Bernard have been drilled to do.

Jerome Shields
301 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:04:26
Sam #299,

What you have described is the problem and the actual situation in the game. It has been for some time.

I would also add the speed of movement and passing in the middle and final third. I also thought that fitness was a contributing factor as well. Slow build-up, back-passing, few runs into space, and crosses with no-one at the end of them.

Annika Herbert
302 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:21:37
Tony@300, is that Richarlison, s favoured position though, through the middle?I thought he looked lost in the few games he was tried there. Not saying it would, nt work, but I am not sure he would want to play there.
Plus Kean prefers to come inside from the left, not the right. It will be interesting to see what happens anyway. I still stand by dropping Siggi, especially after yesterday. s performance and the pre-season he had
Tony Hill
303 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:33:02
Pickford was excellent yesterday. His record in one-on-ones is becoming pretty remarkable. He was, as usual, urging on the defence.

If he maintains form, then he will make a significant difference to the points total this season.

Oliver Molloy
304 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:39:13
Andrew @262,

Yes, it's our first home game, sold out, very vocal home crowd willing him on – this is the perfect match for us to find out what this young fella has to offer, or of course stick with Calvert-Lewin and see what happens again with him or Tosun.

It's time for change – isn't this why we bought him?

I don't know if Mosie Kean will do the business for us, but I know that our current strikers are not scoring or getting in the right areas, so my thoughts are: fire him up and get him on and let's see what all the fuss is about when we signed him.

I don't agree with those who say the reason Calvert-Lewin not scoring is not all down to him. Certainly a lot of it is; yes, he might not get a lot of chances but, when he does, he rarely takes them. He's a big strong lad, who should be a massive aerial threat... but he's not and, for me, he doesn't work or bully defenders enough.

Top strikers and goal scorers find the space, they anticipate what's going to happen, and when they get their chance, the best of them put the ball in the net or at least make the keeper work.

I'm not saying and have never said Calvert-Lewin is useless – far from it – but he is not the goalscorer we desperately need right now. So yes, let's see what the young Italian can do and keep our fingers crossed.

Neil Copeland
305 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:48:13
I went to the game yesterday and I haven't read every post so not sure if my differs to everyone's.

Pickford was excellent, did all you can expect from your goalkeeper making two vital saves and decent distribution in very difficult conditions.

Coleman lots of effort, should have done better with his chance but fade in the second half. Most of the threat from Palace came from his side.

Digne, very good first half and defended well second but less of a threat going forward, partly because Bernard faded in the second half.

Keane and Mina were both excellent throughout, looked very solid and assured. Distribution good, aerial duels very good and tackling/interceptions excellent. Mina looks a bit gangly at times but I think that is just his physique and has all the hallmarks of future great (fingers crossed). Biggest compliment I can pay both is that we didn't miss Zouma. Early days but lots to be optimistic about.

Gomes, excellent but was carrying a knock from early in the game and it only looked like a matter it time before he went off. We lost shape without him which is a bit worrying.

Schneiderlin, was very fired up and getting stuck more than I have seen him before. Unlucky to give away a free-kick that clearly was not a foul and led to the first yellow but really stupid to get the yellow for dissent. Reckless in the second half and a red waiting to happen, should have been substituted after about 60 mins.

Sigurdsson, as always gave 100% in terms of effort. Really piss-poor miss early in the game and looked a bit lost. Although he didn't contribute much today he still has the ability to score a screamer and send through a ball to the forwards. I would have kept him on the pitch and taken Bernard off.

Bernard, did miss one in the first half but was a bit Peter Beagrie today in overdoing things when a simple cross or square pass or attempted through-ball was the better option. Faded in the second half leaving Digne with a lot to do.

Richarlison, tried hard first half but didn't really make much impact and looked off the pace. Came into it more in the second half and looked to be getting better as the game went on. A little bit unlucky with his curling effort which may have gone in on another day.

Calvert-Lewin, lots of effort and as always held the line up well. Suffered from a lack of service but doesn't make the runs or himself available as a striker should. I like Calvert-Lewin but just not a poacher, would be interesting to see him and Kean together at some point.

Gbamin, not sure why he came on ahead of Davies given his match fitness comments before the game. Was caught out a few times by the pace and ferocity if the Premier League. Passing was a bit hit and miss. Some good moments also though, a physical player with good vision and got better as the game went on. No concerns once he is match fit.

Davies, did okay and added some much-needed bite and intensity after the red card. Thought he should have come on ahead of Gbamin.

Kean, received a fabulous reception from the travelling support. Some decent touches but, as with Gbamin, needs time to adjust to the Premier League. Very strong as demonstrated by holding off 3 or 4 Palace players and making a successful pass. Also looks fast when he almost got onto the end of a through ball. Promising.

Marco Silva, should have brought Schneids off before the red card, we could all see it coming and so should he. I thought Bernard should have come off before Siggi and Davies in ahead of Gbamin.

Overall, we should have been out of sight at half-time but ended up thankful to Pickford for a point. Disappointing but plenty of positives particularly in defence and Kean. I think Gbamin will be excellent once he is up to speed.

As always, the travelling support was fantastic and reminded Palace that Zaha is too good for them.

Against Watford, I would make a number of changes:

Kean in for Calvert-Lewin – we need a goal scorer
Iwobi in for Bernard
Gbamin in for Gomes
Davies or Delph in for Schneiderlin

Dave Williams
306 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:52:37
Neil, exactly how I saw it too – I agree with all of that.
Ciarán McGlone
307 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:12:25
I can't recall us actually playing Richarlison as a Number 10... Number 9 for a while, yes, but Number 10? Frankly, I think that's what he's destined for.

I've always thought that routinely playing Sigurdsson in that position was one of our major problems.

Dale Rose
308 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:43:23
Neil 305. Outstanding analysis. Agree with it all.
Sean Kelly
309 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:43:28
Game one over and I'm more depressed than ever about our chances of Top 6.

For those on here saying Calvert-Lewin has more to his game than being a goalscorer — that's shite. To be a No 9, he should be alert and fully expectant of the ball coming into the box. He's neither. How many times yesterday did we get the ball wide only for the player in possession to have to check inside because Calvert-Lewin was preening his stubble?

He needs to be in there, making life hell for the centre-halves and ripping them a new arse. He might be good at holding the ball up but what good is that when the wide men are looking for a target men. He seems to think that when he holds the ball up that's his job done. Calvert-Lewin knows that his position is okay for the next few weeks as Kean is not up to speed.

To defend Calvert-Lewin, it's probably not his fault entirely as the club is run like a retirement home. Mind the current incumbents and tolerate the visitors (fans).

As for Sigurdsson, don't get me started... but there's £40M pissed down the drain.

Welcome to Everton's Gentleman's Club, lads.

Frank Crewe
310 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:59:39
Look on the bright side: we could be West Ham supporters.

This 4-2-3-1 obviously isn't working. I personally think a 4-3-3 should be tried. We need to be quicker and more direct. Get the full-backs forward for width. Instead of obsessing about who would be the best No 10 why, not just dispense with it altogether? 4-3-3 works pretty well for the Reds. Maybe we should give it a try.

Coleman Mina Keane Digne
Gbamin Sigurdsson or Delph Gomes
Richarlison Kean Iwobi

Fran Mitchell
311 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:19:50
4-2-3-1 will never be a prolific formation, all the top teams play 4-3-3.

The 'No 10' is a luxury that in the modern game of high press just doesn't work.

It pushes the wide men like Richarlison too far wide, and leaves the centre forward too easily outnumbered in the box.

People say Calvert-Lewin should be doing this and that, but Palace packed the defense and, with little else coming at them, Calvert-Lewin never stood a chance at getting space to run into.

What we need are two No 8 box-to-box midfielders, like Liverpool have in Henderson and Keira, or what Spurs have in Sissoko (soon to be Lo Celso) and Ndombele. Actually, Spurs play with 3 No 8s often, as Winks is hardly a 'sit back and defend' type.

Point is, none of the top 3 teams play with a 'No 10'.

The wing play is predominately done by the full-backs, the wide forwards cut inside more than outside, and they have at least 2 midfielders pushing forward and supporting the attack. That is 7 players attacking at any one time.

We however have the wing play dominated by 2 forwards, 2 midfielders sitting back, and 1 striker in the box with 1 attacking midfielder just outside the box. Any wonder we struggle to score?

This is why we went for Doucouré. I hope that Davies can grow into the role of a No 8, but there are no guarantees there.

Annika Herbert
312 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:20:02
Neil @305, excellent post, very informative. I agree with almost all of it, except the Bernard part. I would prefer to see Sigurdsson left out, Bernard moved into the middle and Iwobi taking over on the left.
Brent Stephens
313 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:20:10
Neil #305 - a very fair assessment in my view.

Gbamin coming on and not Davies was a mistake, given the state of the game and Gbamin's lack of game time.

For me, Bernard should have gone off, not Calvert-Lewin (though Calvert-Lewin has his problems and Silva subbing him says something about SIlva's view of him yesterday, given that Bernard wasn't particularly on fire).

The hairs on the back of my neck stood up as away fans reacted to Kean coming on. Oh for that dream debut goal...

Roman Sidey
314 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:26:15
Spot on, Sean. There'll be a good chunk of fans who say "I don't care what number the players wear", but the fact that Calvert-Lewin switched to the No 9 this season (I cannot believe the club allowed it) means he rates himself as a striker, which is just delusional.

How anyone can watch him play and not be utterly frustrated and somewhat angry is beyond me. He's rarely in the correct position when the ball comes into the box, and for a lad his size, he has how many headed goals to his name?

He's not the only reason we didn't win yesterday, and certainly not why we struggled to score last season. Until players like him aren't the only choices available, though, we're not going to be bothering the Top 6. He's not Premier League material, and never will be.

He's 22 and has scored 22 league goals in his career. He should wear 22, which, ironically, was Hibbo's number early on, and we all know what he was like in the attacking half.

Brent Stephens
315 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:29:50
Jonathan Tasker #182 "When are we going to appoint a great manager? They do exist. Look at the effect Graham Potter has had already at Brighton".

Jeez. Somebody is great based on one game? That's a really embarrassing post. "A great manager"! Great!

Steve Cotton
316 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:00:00
Anyone else think Milivojevic was lucky to stay on the pitch? He made 2 bookable challenges before the one that got him his yellow, then blatantly pulled Richarlison back when he got free. Moss did his usual 'homer' refereeing. No wonder our refs are laughed at in Europe...
Anish Dosani
317 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:00:40
Why the hell didn't Silva change the formation? Change to a 4-4-2, putting on Tosun or Kean to support Calvert-Lewin if we're struggling to break through??

Going with one focal striker isn't working. Calvert-Lewin can hold the ball up with someone alongside him to put it in the net. Not rocket science, is it?

Jerome Shields
318 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:03:35
Fran # 311

Your analysis is interesting and explains the lack of inter-passing in the final third, lack of chances, and poor, hurried finishing. I think, as Sam posted, the introduction of Iowbi will help, but the tactics would have to change as you suggest.

Neil Copeland
319 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:07:49
Annika #312, I wouldn't disagree with that. My only concern would be Bernard's ability to contribute goals vs Sigurdsson but that may be offset by him creating more for others.

Jonathon #182, Everton, under Silva, have kept 8 clean sheets in their last 12 Premier League games – second only to City. Brighton have played one Premier League game under Potter so far. Your claims are a bit premature, I would say.

All, there is a new song for Moise Kean doing the rounds, I will get a copy of the words and post it (and no, I don't mean “Keano, Keano”!)

Brent #313, yes good point about Calvert-Lewin. And yes, the support would have gone mental if Kean had scored.

Tony Abrahams
320 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:20:25
Sam @299, I'm not sure it's the system that hampers Sigurdsson, more that he doesn't really play like a Number 10. Most No 10s play on the half-turn, whilst Siggy usually plays with the game in-front of him.

I saw loads of little forward passes where I would expect the receiver to turn and play, especially when they are in the little pocket between the midfield and the opposing defence, but we just usually half-turn and play it sideways, and very rarely pull defenders out of position and towards the ball.

You might say it's the system, but I would say it might also be about the personnel that is getting used in the system...

Paul Tran
321 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:22:59
Neil #305, I agree with most of that.

I'm curious about how Calvert-Lewin and Kean may work together. Just let Kean roam.

Fran Mitchell
322 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:30:02
I think our most effective forward line will be one of two:

Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, Kean
Iwobi, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison

Calvert-Lewin is the only one who can do this job, of the 'false 9'. Maybe Richarlison could do it too, making it Iwobi-Richarlison-Kean, but yes, it would see Richarlison score less goals.

Let's look at Liverpool, I think they most resemble how Silva would like to see us play (whether he can, another debate, I have my doubts).

Midfield of Henderson - Fabinho and Keita or Wijnaldum. Fabinho sitting back, Henderson and Other box-to-box (Slightly different roles- Henderson being more aggressive and direct, the others being more creative).

The wing play is their Full backs, and Mané and Salah just outside the area cutting inwards, they rarely cut outside and cross into the box (which atm is what Rich and Bernard are constantly doing). Firmino is the No 9, he runs the opposition ragged and lays the ball off, he scores about 10-12 goals a season. He is less prolific, but I would hazard a guess in that for Klopp, Firmino is the most important of his front 3.

When he was DCLs age, he was averaging 5-7 goals a season. So in the modern game, the no9 is not the main goalscorer. So goals alone are not how we should judge DCL. (He does need to
Improve, I agree, but I think those criticising him are being overly unfair, it is a big season for him, make or break even, but the tactics at the moment do not help).

Ideally we'd be set up with Gbamin in the Fabinho role, Gomes in the Keita/Wijnaldum role and another in the Henderson role. But Siggy seems unable or unwilling to do this. We have Davies and Delph, maybe one of them can do it, but can we drop our 'star man'? It is a big ask.

If Silva got his man in Doucourè, it may have been easier, but it seems we will spend another season with a tactical set up that doesn't suit the style we want to adopt.

If we want Kean to be prolific, it won't be playing as No 9 in place of Calvert-Lewin, it will be playing in a wide forward role. But he isn't a winger either, so the current tactical setup doesn't help either.

Big moment for Silva. He has to show his tactical and man management acumen to get the best from this team.

Bill Watson
323 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:46:21
For those wondering why Silva didn't start with Kean and Gbamin the answer was provided when Gbamin came on. He's plainly not match fit and will take time to acclimatise to the pace of the PL. At least Iwobi should be able to slot straight in.

Gomes was running the show until he was crocked and a really good performance from Mina.

Coleman appears to escape criticism. Time and again he gets free on the right hand side but then fails to deliver a decent cross. I fear his days are numbered.

David Pearl
324 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:47:50
Palace played us scared yesterday, at home. We just didnt have players good enough to unlock their defence. When we get so much of the ball we should be able to play more compact but there are still holes in our midfield and Siggy can look like he's playing on his own island sometimes. I would of subbed him for kean yesterday, not DCL. Silva has got some good players... and we've scored what, 2 goals in 6 or 6 games? Fingers crossed we can score next weekend and kick start our season. I don't care if its just the first game of the season. We know we are toothless up top... so we buy a 19 year old.
David Pearl
325 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:49:58
We will probably have to wait for the league cup before we see Sidibe. Although having a player on the right that can cross a ball would be nice.
Raymond Fox
326 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:56:48
Never mind DCL, what about our other players who don't score enough.
We had a few good chances in the first half to possibly settle the game there and then, maybe on another day they go in. Results are very often about fine margins and dare I say it, luck of the bounce sometimes.

I'd be inclined to take DCL out of the firing line for a few weeks and stick Richarlison up front for the Watford game, the lads under more and more pressure to score.
It seems Silva prefers to play the style with DCL up front though, so whether that will happen I have my doubts.

Frank Thomas
327 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:57:33
Steve (316) I don't think he plays homer refereeing he just does not give us anything unless he has made such a blatant bias decision against us that will be picked up by the tv pundits.
I think that Moss's refereeing got Schneiderlin riled plus the failure to blow up for a deliberate dive by Ayew.

watch this used tube video

Pay attention to 5.05 mins and you will see that Ayew does that move allowing the ball to pass through his legs and then turns and runs. Schneiderlin anticipated that move and executed a fantastic tackle on Ayew who then throws himself to ground yelling 'I have been hit' and Moss just buys it and does not punish Ayew. Marco needs to register a complaint about Ayew behaviour This would raise awareness by refs. If the FA can charge Niasse retrospectively then Ayew needs the same treatment.

Check the tackle by Ayew against the player in blue at 2.46 mins approx, who is the ref? and why was that not a foul against Ayew he hits the players legs before he gets the ball.

I would like to apologise to Schneiderlin, fantastic tackle, poor refereeing and shocking gamesmanship by Ayew to get a fellow professional booked.

Trevor Peers
328 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:05:47
Fran@332, your wish that somehow we adopt a similar tactical plan to the RS is flawed beyond belief, only Richarlison, out of our forwards, would stand any chance of getting in thier team, the rest are simply not up to it technically, tactically or in goal scoring ability. Therefore we have adapt and use what we have to the best of thier limited ability.

Expecting DCL to adopt the Firmino role is highly amusing, he's light years behind and will never be clever enough. Silva is trying to build a squad of good technicians, but he has a long way to go yet, many more quality players will be needed. Iwobi looks like a good addition though.

Timothy Sebastian
329 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:06:39
Please play with Calvert-Lewin and Kean together when at home. Not sure why Silva doesn't want us to be more offensive when at home.
Fran Mitchell
330 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:10:25
Trevor not saying Ian my wish, nor that we will put to he same level, but it is what Silva wants.

In fairness our strikers are also all 5/6/7 years younger than theirs.

At the same ages as our main strikers now:
Firmino was a non scoring striker at Hoffenheim. Salah couldn't get a game at Chelsea. Mané played in Austria.

Fran Mitchell
331 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:14:17
" Therefore we have adapt and use what we have to the best of thier limited ability."

I would argue that the current set up doesn't do this, hence why need to move to 4-3-3, to make more of Richarlison and Kean or Iwobi in the wide positions.

If DCL does not develop into the role, then we have to see who will play. Would we be happy without ricarlison playing no9 and limiting his goal output?

Frank Thomas
332 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:28:47
No wonder our players were annoyed yesterday by the biased referee, look at this web page it has two pictures Coleman is attacking and look who is pulling his shirt.
2nd picture Keane is at the ball first and look who is pulling the defenders shirt

Marco definitely needs to raise a complaint.

Grant Rorrison
333 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:36:38
Frank 332. Cant blame them. It's every Palace player's dream to pull on an Everton shirt. :P
David Pearl
334 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:38:24

I'd love to see us play 433 but don't think we have the players or the manager to pull. Something isn't right with how we move forward or keep the ball, we just seem too far apart. One thing l used to like about Moyes was the triangles and movement. Richarlison is so wasted out right. Its just not clicking. You cant even say its only the first game of the season. 2 goals in 7 games is ridiculous.

Steavey Buckley
335 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:00:34
Everton did far worse against Crystal Palace this season than last because Everton lost 2 regular midfield players who will be missing the next game. The situation is so bad the Watford game has turned in to a must win, even though Watford lost to Brighton at home 0:3 Yet, Everton still have not dealt with an attack that lacks a cutting edge, which is compounded by DCL who finds it difficult (near impossible) to find the net.
John Pierce
336 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:10:36
Silva looks like he has a clear desire to play 4-3-3. His past teams have and purchases to date hint that’s the direction of travel for a tactical development. One I’d support.

However this particular formation is all in, no hiding places. If you are weak in any area it collapses around you. The whole team profits from playing higher up the park, squeezing the play and attempting to turn the ball over high up the field, with huge numbers to transform a transition into a high quality chance.

A bad 4-3-3 quickly disintegrates into a 4-5-1, isolating the centre forward and cramping the full backs. That’s worries me.

We do not have the players to execute this anywhere near the level to make a success of it.

Sadly our ‘Achilles heel or hell’ is breaking down poor sides, 4-2-3-1 ain’t the solution, never ever enough players in the box to score. Yesterday is a very suitable example, did Gomes or Schniederlin ever threaten their box? Whilst 4-3-3 with midfielders willing to break forward and beyond certainly gives poorer sides a much harder time to combat.

Frustratingly we seem to be in between both tactics.

I think that sums it up, somewhere in between!

Bobby Mallon
337 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:17:16
Well said Fran Mitchell best post today.


Bobby Mallon
338 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:19:11
Once again we have supporters who need to chill out it’s the 1st game ffs
Derek Knox
339 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:28:15
One bit of scant consolation I suppose is the other results from yesterday most went according to the predictions.

I am currently flicking between Leicester v Wolves and Newcastle v Arsenal, (as we play Wolves soon) and neither game is exactly a riveting watch. Fact they are both a bit stale with the odd flash of expectation.

So if they stay like that it puts our 'result' yesterday as not too bad. However and it's been said many times before, we can't rely on other teams' forms/results we should be concentrating on our own outcomes.

We have an excellent chance of gaining a decent foothold with the fixtures we have (next few weeks) so let's make the most of them!

David Pearl
340 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:50:38
cant you see we are only 1 point off the bottom of the table.
Derek Knox
341 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:57:46
David, considering myself to be an optimist, a glass half-full sort of dude, I see it, that we are only 2 points off the Top! :-)
Steavey Buckley
342 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:00:45
Not getting off to a good start at the beginning of the season will effect confidence of players and fans. If Everton are to do well this season, beating Crystal Palace and Watford are a must, because they are PL's weaker teams. Yet, Everton have lost 3 key midfield players for the next game. it does appear, some Everton fans believe Everton can beat a Watford team with a very weakened midfield and still win. I am not too sure.
Neil Copeland
343 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:01:21
Frank #327, good points about John Moss. Although I agree that it was Ayew’s antics that led to it, Schneiderlin’s first yellow was for dissent rather than the actual challenge and therefore shouldn’t have happened regardless (probably old Moss he was a thick fat twat or whatever the equivalent is in French!).

You are right about Ayew, he should have 2 yellows before Schneids got his second yellow, the shirt pull you mention was very obvious and clinical.

Joe McMahon
344 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:12:37
John @336, I fullay agree, we just don't have the players to play 4 3 3, like you say it (yet again) becomes one upfront isolated.

We'd all like to see 4 3 3, but we don't have Salah, et al. I honestly don't think we have had the players for such at attacking formation since Kanchelskis and Limpar being in the same team.

Derek Knox
345 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:17:55
Neil, and others, on the subject of referees, we knew well in advance who the ref was going to be, and he has a reputation, which is not a good one, I must hasten to add.

Now these are supposed to be Professional Footballers, and should know better than we do, you don't argue or dispute decisions with the referee. He is never going to say " Sorry Old Chap I appear to have gaffed there, I will rescind the Yellow/Red, Oh silly old me ".

He is more likely to award one for challenging his decision whether you were the player involved in the alleged incident or not. It's like the kid who sees other kids with an ice-cream and wants one too.

Yes they often make mistakes, not the kids the referee, so leave it for the Authorities to (rarely/hopefully sort it out after the game) rather than risk being sent off and putting your team-mates under pressure with numbers reduced.

Neil Copeland
346 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:23:36
Derek, spot on. Schneids didn’t even get a yellow when he punched the ground three times in frustration in full view of Moss. It was only when he said whatever he said to Moss that yellow was shown. Needless.
Neil Copeland
347 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:31:39
As promised for anyone interested;

Kean came from Juve to wear the royal blue,
He gets the ball and there’s nothing he can’t do,
Marcel Brands got him without a buy back clause,
And we’ll go mental every time he scores.
Di, di, di, di, di. Di, di, di, di, di, di

David Pearl
348 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:46:29
With a little tweak that could be sung to Forever Everton
Hugh Jenkins
349 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:20:10
Poor Old Kurt (Zouma) apparently he's having a "mare" for Chelsea at Utd this afternoon.

Given away a penalty and is making mistake after mistake, according to the BBC.

Mike Gaynes
350 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:21:17
He is indeed, Hugh. Got a yellow as well. I'm watching the game on NBCSN in the US.
Peter Mills
351 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:24:37
Ross Barkley has had an awful first half too.
Derek Knox
352 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:25:57
Mike G, watching it too, Chelsea unlucky to have hit post twice, and had the better of the early exchanges, Zouma penalty give-away changed things against run of play.

Best game I 've seen this season so far until our game next week, against our friends Watford?

Jerome Shields
353 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:41:57
Calvert-Lewin is doing the job Silva wants and is limited in having opportunities to score as a result.

It has been long argued on ToffeeWeb about the need for a savour striker. But Brands and Silva have not gone that way. Kean has not been brought in as a Calvert-Lewin replacement, though he may be brought in as his substitute. In my opinion, his role will be to play off a holding centre forward. Tosun initially played the holding forward role, but though he worked hard, could not maintain the high press, Sigurdsson became anonymous. Calvert-Lewinas the holding forward can maintain the high press, giving Sigurdsson more space. Tosun was given the chance to play off the holding centre-forward, but did not have the pace and necessary finishing ability. Calvert-Lewindid score more when Tosun partnered him.

Sigurdsson and other players, rather than playing telling passes through the centre, play passes down the channels and shoot when the centre opens up. The problem of playing down the channels is it pushes the forwards wide and reduces the chance of interplay between forwards in the final third. To some defences playing down the channels is a gift, enabling them to bottle up any attacks

In playing against the top four teams, the high press is the most effective ways of containing them. Man City and Liverpool do not enjoy playing Everton.

I hope that Iowbi is more effective in the final third in the use of the ball, than Sigurdsson. Both Bernard and Richarlison would benefit. Walcott's contribution has always been limited.

Pat Kelly
356 Posted 11/08/2019 at 19:26:39
Jerome, where do you see our goals coming from?
Tony Abrahams
357 Posted 11/08/2019 at 19:36:39
Not from the holding centre-forward.
Jamie Crowley
358 Posted 11/08/2019 at 19:42:28
Next week, for me:

Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Gbamin Davies
Richarlison Bernard Iwobe

Drop Sigurdsson. Put Bernard at the 10. See what happens. Sigurdsson can come off the bench if the Bernard experiment doesn't come good.

Bernard is a creative player with sublime touch and vision. This is what we need – someone feeding our goal scorers.

I've been saying this for almost a year now. I can't believe it's not been tried to date.

One thing is for sure. If Sigurdsson starts, Silva's missed a sublime opportunity to send a message, that if you don't perform, there's a player behind you who will get the opportunity to do so. And that would naturally raise our game collectively as a team.

I like Gylfi. He's a good footballer. But we need to be bold this season. If we start naming the same 11, despite poor performances, it'll be another 50-something point season, I'd bet.

Dave Williams
359 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:00:22
Jamie- I agree. Bernard has to be given a try as Gylfi doesn't create even though he picks up his share of goals. That front four is packed with skill, pace and power and with the right service will get the goals.
I'd like to see Calvert-Lewin up front with Kean but your team looks the biz to me.
Andy Meighan
360 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:03:56
He won't change it though will he? Mark my words, Sigurdsson will be the 1st name on the teamsheet next week. We've had a succession of managers unwilling to change, that's why we've struggled down the years.
Neil Wood
361 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:08:56
Jamie... I concur and have also been beating the Bernard at 10 drum. He’s a special footballer with sublime touch, vision and passing. I like him as a winger but I’m convinced he would make a fantastic floating 10. A little similar to David Silva.

I really like the look of that team. Pace and guile up top

Andy Crooks
362 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:48:07
Neil, I agree.Bernard reminds me if Silva.
Steven Astley
363 Posted 11/08/2019 at 23:30:40
Are there no free agent centre-backs we can bring in as cover?
Jerome Shields
364 Posted 11/08/2019 at 23:58:35
Where do I see goals coming from?

Palace set themselves up exactly the same as the last time Everton played them. It was nearly a carbon copy of the last meeting.

What they did was for most of the game have bodies in the final third between Everton and the Palace goals, looking for a goal in the final quarter of the game.

They were able to do this, because of a slow Everton bui!d-up and passing across their defensive line and very few link passes through it.

Sigurdsson is too slow and not creative enough. He passes a lot sideways, as options in front of him dry up, as a result. I would replace him with Iwobi. The other midfielders pass to the wings a lot also. The midfield trio need to interplay more, with more tandem movement. I think Gbamin will eventually help with this. The Everton forward line is stretched wide as result of this sideways movement and tend to run into channels, getting bottled up or into unfavourable shooting positions. Wing play should be provided by overlapped wing-backs.

Richardson and Kean should be moving in on goal. I would play Kean off Calvert-Lewin. When Tosun played off Calvert-Lewin, the play being higher up the pitch enabled Calvert-Lewin to get into more centre-forward positions. Tosun has no pace or a shot, so wasn't good enough, ; interplay was out. Kean is good enough.

Everton have one of the lowest pass completion rates in the final third in the Premier League because such passes are rarely attempted. Faster forward momentum from the midfield, playing through the centre more, with more forward movement and interplay (the old one-two) in the attacking zone, at speed, will remedy this and get rid of the body problem.

Everton have the players to finish in space, who won't be trying to score through bodies and will have their forwards in positions with more options to do so as a result.

I would play Bernard deeper and Sigurdsson more forward as an alternative.

As Brands said, scoring options from more than one forward. The Saviour Centre-Forward, a preference of many, is not the solution.

Terry White
365 Posted 12/08/2019 at 00:01:41
Steven (#363) don't just ask the question, do some research and name a couple.
Jerome Shields
366 Posted 12/08/2019 at 00:11:52
I would play Bernard deeper as an alternative; he achieves a surprisingly high turnover rate most games when he plays.
Graham Hammond
367 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:16:54
Jamie #358,

I think your thoughts are pretty spot on mate. Silva needs to be more ruthless and create genuine competition for places by wielding the axe and making changes when a player does not perform. Sigurdsson did not perform adequately on Saturday for me and therefore should be the player to make way for Iwobi in the starting line up for the Watford game.

One further thing I would like to add: Iwobi does regard himself as an Attacking Midfielder so therefore, should also be considered for the Sigurdsson role along with Bernard. Iwobi is also the youngest of the three players under consideration and seemingly has the skill set to succeed as a Number 10.

I will not be holding my breath though! We need to beat Watford whoever plays!!

Matt Woods
368 Posted 12/08/2019 at 00:34:55
I would play Bernard deeper as an alternative, he achieves a surprisingly high turnover rate most games, when he plays. isn't a natural striker. In the modern Premier League era, it is absolutely vital to be a pure thoroughbred to complete at this level.

He is what I would describe as a manufactured footballer. He works incredibly hard for the team and leads the line reasonably well. Unfortunately, he does not have a natural strikers instinct, finishing ability or luck. He will develop into a physical freak like Ronaldo and if can score a couple of goals and gain some confidence and composure should be assured of a decent Premier League career. I can't see him being the answer for a top side as a first-choice centre forward though.

On Moise Kean we do need patience. The lad has not been playing 90 minutes regularly. He has been an impact player in a hugely dominant team. He obviously has bags of raw ability, pace and does know where the net is. Let's get behind this kid, roar him on, encourage and support. Likewise let's keep supporting young Dominic's workrate and hope his graft is rewarded with some goals.

Annika Herbert
369 Posted 12/08/2019 at 05:03:36
Jamie @358, I am with you on that team selection. I firmly believe we need to give Bernard a run out in the Number 10 position.

I too have been suggesting the idea for some time. It may not work but, if it did, I am sure we would create far more chances than we currently do. I was mocked for suggesting this but still believe Bernard should, at the very least, be tried in Sigurdsson's position.

Jerome Shields
370 Posted 12/08/2019 at 05:41:31
Matt #368,

Calvert-Lewin is doing the job Silva is asking him to do. He is dependent on others to provide the right pass. Everton have one of the lowest pass completion rates in the Premier League in the final third, because such passes are not being attempted; how can he score?

I agree with Bernard as a Number 10 alternative. He is faster than Sigurdsson and more adept at the shorter pass. The emphasis of the attack is too deep with Sigurdsson as Number 10.

Tony Everan
371 Posted 12/08/2019 at 07:37:20
I too agree that Bernard needs to be tried at No 10 in the floating 'David Silva' role.

He is arguably the most gifted footballer we have with regards ball control, touch and skill. He is always quick thinking for the next pass, sometimes too far ahead of his team mates.

In the No 10 role he is the best available in the team to find a millisecond of space. To slide or lift a ball through the defensive line to Kean through the middle. Or wider angled to Iwobi or Richarlison timing sprints through the defensive line. Sigurdsson hasn't got that ability to do that to anywhere near that extent.

In games like on Saturday a team needs that creator to break down the regulation defence. Similar tactics will need countering against Watford.

It needs someone like Bernard on the ball in the right area of the pitch. More and more I think his skill set is unsuited to being out wide on the left and would be more at home and productive at No 10.

His defensive duties out wide have improved all the time over the last 6 months, so I don't see why that should regress with him being at No 10. He tackles back well and can be like an angry gnat in the tackle when trying to win the ball back.

The proof maybe whether he can manufacture the goals and assists from that position when it is tried. And whether we can consider forfeiting Sigurdsson's goals. [Anyway we can still have 30 mins of Siggy as sub when needed.]

One thing is for sure: Siggy can't turn up with his flip flops on next Saturday, he needs to be right on his game or be dropped.

It's not just against Watford , but breaking down stubborn and formulaic defences throughout the season needs to be better thought out. In Bernard, we have a player that gives us an option to try something that is both logical and different.

James Marshall
372 Posted 12/08/2019 at 11:09:48
I don't think you can read too much into a performance away at Palace in that wind, losing Gomes, Kean and Gbamin new to it all, down to 10 men (what on earth was Schneiderlin's first yellow all about?!) towards the end, essentially a new central defensive pairing etc.

It was a perfect storm for a sketchy performance so 0-0 wasn't the end of the world. We all get annoyed and feel deflated after the summer, and new season optimism which gets immediately swept away on a tide of misery but it's not entirely fair to use one game as the yardstick for the season ahead.

We'll be okay with this squad I reckon, and we still have plenty to look forward to with new players once things start to gel. A little patience is required, which we Evertonians aren't that great at!

Tony Hill
373 Posted 12/08/2019 at 11:30:44
I agree with that, James, but we looked worryingly short of ideas, apart from a few decent moments, and that awful tentativeness in attack was still there.

Here's hoping.

James Marshall
374 Posted 12/08/2019 at 11:54:26
Agreed, Tony. We're severely lacking the ability to score goals. Iwobi and the boy Kean will help a lot with that in time though I like to think. Early days bedding in new players - things are still pretty positive in my eyes despite the above. The wheels haven't fallen off just yet!
Derek Knox
375 Posted 12/08/2019 at 12:04:13
Tony, I believe also, we are too predictable in games like this, even the Palace sided reports were saying this game was almost carbon copy of our last game at Selhurst Park.

Okay it was later in the season, April if memory serves, but basically they knew what to expect in terms of our attacks. I believe they have to be varied from game to game, maybe this is what Marco Silva is working up to, but there were no signs of it.

Like I said previously in this thread it's no use dominating possession, if you don't turn that into a win. There are no points awarded for possession only wins, and superior goal difference helps if you manage to score.

Paul Cherrington
376 Posted 12/08/2019 at 12:11:30
Seems like people are finally beginning to get real with regards to Sigurdsson and how good he really is. Don't get me wrong – he is a decent player and chips in with goals but is just not good enough to be our main creative outlet.

As the Palace game showed, he goes missing far too often in matches and does not do enough to help the team win regularly. One world class goal every 4 or 5 games cannot cover that up.

We need a Number 10 in his position who is creating chance after chance for others every game and running the show. I agree that Bernard could be that player and should start there instead.

Harry Hockley
378 Posted 13/08/2019 at 13:52:06
Paul 376, I've always said it about Sigurdsson, he's not good enough for us consistently but when he pops up with a couple goals everyone is up his whatsit again

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