Blues duo spared England's humiliation in Nice

by | 27/06/2016  243 Comments  [Jump to last]
England 1 - 2 Iceland
It was a watching brief for Ross Barkley and John Stones again as England slumped to dismal defeat to Iceland and were dumped out of Euro2016.

The two Everton representatives were the only outfield players not to have played a minute of the tournament for England coming into the game and it remained that way as Roy Hodgson searched in vain for some kind of spark to lift an unfathomably dreadful performance by turning to the same options as before.

England were given the perfect start when Raheem Sterling was felled in the area and Wayne Rooney tucked home a third-minute penalty.

Iceland levelled almost immediately, however, when a long throw wasn't dealt with and Ragnar Sigurdsson converted.

As Hodgson's men toiled, Iceland turned the game on its head when Kolbeinn Sigthorsson turned and fired a low shot that squirmed under Joe Hart's arm and rolled over the line.

England were wretched and unimaginative in the second half and were successfully held at bay by the Icelanders who pulled off the shock of the round of 16 to progress to a quarter-final meeting with France.

That's the most likely route into the team for Stones who is one of only three nominal central defenders to have made the trip to France for this summer's Finals, although Eric Dier can play at centre half as well.

Barkley, meanwhile, has plenty of competition in midfield and it's conceivable that neither Blue will make an appearance.


Reader Comments (243)

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Brian Williams
1 Posted 27/06/2016 at 19:52:28
I reckon Ross will only get on if we're on our way out with five minutes to go, whether that's tonight or in the next game/s.....and if I was him and that happened I'd tell Hodgson to do one!
Oliver Molloy
2 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:00:46
You can't do things like that, Brian – well, I suppose you can, but you know what I mean.

Are Barkley and Stones doing enough in training to get a look-in? That is what I, as an Evertonian, am concerned about.

Christy Ring
3 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:10:19
I don't think Ross will kick a ball at the Euros, because Roy has Rooney in midfield, and Henderson and Wilshere on the bench, are his favourites, who shouldn't be in the squad.
James Morgan
4 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:20:58
God... England are laughable.
Denis Richardson
5 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:21:39
Long way to go but fucking hilarious

So many players so overrated.

David Barks
6 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:25:25
Is this Roberto's Everton playing in white and red?
Colin Metcalfe
7 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:26:57
So glad our boys aren't playing ! This team will absolutely slaughtered if they lose this !
Charles Brewer
8 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:28:00
Just to repost a comment I made on another thread today:

And then there is Woy's England, with the energy and commitment of a Lukaku. the wage bill of the Saudi royal family, the leadership skills of a Jeremy Corbyn, and the on-field tactical skills of the French army at Agincourt,

Tony Abrahams
9 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:30:17
What is English football's identity? Try and play? Just not good enough. Play with width? Only from the fullbacks.

We haven't gone backwards, we have just stood still, because we have got no discernible style.

And Hodgson says he won't go begging for a new contract! Insane.

Mark Ryan
10 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:30:25
Cahill and Smalling static and ball watching as the 2nd goal went in. Appalling commitment. Joe Hart for £40 ta
Charles Brewer
11 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:32:20
Alli should have been booked for diving.
Julian Wait
12 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:32:55
We look awful. No tactical nous, and no spirit or cohesion.
Ian Pilkington
13 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:35:36
Charles@8: A perfect description of Woy's useless England.
David Barks
14 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:43:03
What part of City's poor season, Spurs late season collapse of both form and mentality, would give anyone any hope for a team full of those players?
Richard Reeves
15 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:46:41
That synchronized hand-clapping the Icelandic fans do is impressive; I likes it.
Dean Rolstone
16 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:48:19
Watching this turgid England dispaly mind my mind drift off and I thought about the young Icelandic lad who used to be on our books Barningham Vidarsson. I looked him up online and it appears his career has never taken off and is now back playing in his homeland with FH.

It's got me thinking how many foreign young strikers have we had on our books that came with 'potential' only to leave and never be heard of again?

Paul Mackie
17 Posted 27/06/2016 at 20:51:31
I've said it all tournament and I'll say it again: England are shite.
Richard Reeves
18 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:02:16
What England need is someone to get in the middle of the field further forward and thread some quality balls through the middle or produce a moment of magic and you know who I'm talking about... Milner anyone?
Joe O'Brien
19 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:22:38
I'm not English, thank God because this would be even more pain full watching. Sterling is the most over rated player I've ever watched. The Rs must still be laughing that they caught city for 50mil. Still want England to do well but can't see it happened with a team full of Roys favourites
Mark Ryan
20 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:24:47
Fucking Marti Caine would av taken a better free kick than that effort from Harry Kane. What on earth is going on ?
Bill Gall
21 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:28:14
Looks like it may be another Brexit.
Brent Stephens
22 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:51:37
Underwhelming. Glad now Ross and John didn't get on.
Peter Morris
23 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:51:46
Second time in four days I've been thoroughly embarrassed by England. At least there'll be no Everton players getting the stick!
David Barks
24 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:51:58
What an absolutely humiliating week for England. First the Brexit vote, and subsequent realization that many had no idea what the hell they were voting for. And now England beaten by Iceland. My God.
Steve Cotton
25 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:53:16
Thank God our players wernt associated with that shite..
Eugene Kearney
27 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:55:38
Good God...
Dean Williams
28 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:55:44
At least Barkley hasn't been tarnished with that shite. Woy plays his favorites all the time. I was hoping Barkley got a shout with 30 mins to go but super happy he didn't.
Jay Woods
29 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:57:35
Keep Brexit out of it - I and doubtless some other Toffeemen were all for it, and for good, logical reasons.

Hodgson is an idiot of a manager and gave fair warning of this kind of result with his faux pas over the Slovakia game. But the players too can't be absolved of blame; I'm just glad our boys are not going to be implicated in this debacle, thanks to Roy never deploying them.

Antony Matthews
30 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:57:46
I can see the headlines tomorrow. ICE RAGE !
Peter Morris
31 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:58:20
All we need now is some idiots to kick off in the local bars, and the Europeans will just kick us out without the need for a referendum result.
Hang your heads in shame you overpaid prima donnas. We may have the most exciting league in the world, but if it ever needed proving that it was down to the foreign players, well, it doesn't anymore.
Tony Hill
32 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:58:55
Hilariously bad.
Christine Foster
33 Posted 27/06/2016 at 21:58:58
Dear God, what an absolute disgrace and yet you know, I was half expecting it.. Bad squad selection, bad team selection, no tactical nous, no game plan.. They deserved to go out, every single player was a disgrace and should never be allowed to play for England again.
Goodbye Roy... Thanks for nothing..
Paul Andrews
34 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:01:16
How did Barkley not get on in that game? Alli non-existent, Rooney stinking the gaff out.

And Stones not getting a game in front of an average Cahill? Still, they are international managers so probably know better than us fans.

Mike Powell
35 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:02:11
EMBARRASSING... Kane, Alli, Sterling were piss poor and that RS gobshite of a manager couldn't even give Barkley 10 mins.
Barry Lambert
36 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:03:29
Thank goodness our boys had fuck all to do with the whole shambles.Jack Wheelchair what a joke. Rooney ,I have never seen him play as shite as that in all my life.
At least our boys are spared the usual panning they get from the press and all the TV pundits.I found myself laughing towards the end.The laughing stock of the entire Football world.
Come home boys Ronald will sort you out, no problem.
Ian Riley
37 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:04:24
Funny thing is Iceland deserved it!!!
Barry Skinner
38 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:04:52
Bye bye, Woy... thanks for nothing.
Oliver Molloy
39 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:06:21
I am laughing my bollocks off like I said I would.
Andrew Clare
40 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:06:22
What an embarrassing few days for England. The country makes the worst political decision in living memory and now the football team plays like a bunch of amateurs.
Patrick Murphy
41 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:06:27
No Everton players were harmed during this England debacle. Not a professional club in Iceland apparently, how sad is it that players who are paid a Kings Ransom cannot master the basics of their profession.
Christopher Wallace
42 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:09:33
Are there still TWers that would like to see Rooney in an Everton shirt? If so, get a serious grip of yourself!

I know there were several during the season statig that they would love him to return.

He's been done for years now.

Alan Bodell
43 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:09:41
I only care about the national team when we have players in so tonight I'm not bothered that a team form a nation of 35K. has put a bunch of overpaid prima donnas on the plane home.
Julian Wait
44 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:10:01
Iceland deserved it. Well done. We've given the rest of the world a good laugh this week. Whatever next?
Ian Riley
45 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:11:18
Our performances reflect our manager!!!
Ste Traverse
46 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:12:00
How shite was Rooney?? Don't think I've ever seen him play that bad.

He's finished. Can't believe some want him back here.

As for Hodgson, how the hell did he get the gig in the first place? He'll be utterly slaughtered in the morning papers.

Roger Helm
47 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:12:17
Leicester City and Iceland prove that football is a team game - a collection of talented players with no mental strength, no organisation and no football nous are going to come unstuck. Still, they'll be able now to spend more time with their Bentleys and their shampoo adverts.
Ian Riley
48 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:13:07
Tim O'Connell
49 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:14:33
As many have said - good job our boys were not involved so hopefully confidence not shot. England have to look to what Eddie Jones has done for the rugby and Conti for Italy - bring passion and simplicity to it - no fear - that was appalling and Woy has to shoulder the blame like Lancaster did. I'm part Irish but for once I don't feel like a party that was so embarrassing!
Ian Cowhig
50 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:15:34
No pace
No skill
Can't pass
Can't control the ball
Can't shoot
Can't defend

And yet you would have to spend £20 million at least to buy one of them. Plus £100k a week.

Got exactly what they deserved.

Mike Hughes
51 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:15:44
Christopher #42 - careful!

I got a ban for suggesting that a couple of years ago. (Yep, I know).

I think MK has a framed photograph of 'Our Wayne' on his bedside table.

Mark Pringle
52 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:18:52
New billionaire owner, cracking new manager, 𧴜m transfer kitty, talk of new stadium, England hyped up then embarrassed as usual getting pumped by Iceland. No Everton contribution to the embarrassment with Barkley and Stones well rested! I'm a Scotsman and I'm aware we didn't qualify cos we are shite, but at least we realise we are shite. Tell you what, if Carlsberg did summers.... :-)
Bob Skelton
54 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:24:00
Oh dear. Beaten by a supermarket. What a load of bollocks. Rooney on £300k a week..... They couldn't pass wind never mind the ball. Overpaid undertalented dross
Bill Gall
55 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:25:02
Thank goodness that people got to see what a poor team England are. They are definitely not world football power and have no idea what to do when they play away in tournaments .Glad to see Woy has resigned and was most probably reading from a statement from those people at the F.A.that most probably now less than him about the game.
Tony Abrahams
56 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:26:16
Patrick, if I went over there with that squad and never got a game, I would be thinking about self-harm.

When is someone who really understands the game, going to rip it up and let us start from scratch again?

Two years ago, although Italy, beat England, they were a very poor team. Now they look like "THE ITALIANS" of old, because they have a certain style, which is probably learned from the minute they start to be coached.

It's the same with Germany, they have their own unique style, which will always get them results. Both these nations, are supremely confident, because they have great belief, which is given to them by their respective styles.

England have just been beaten by a very small nation, who played "The English WAY", whilst England just looked lost.

The biggest problem we have as a nation? From a very early age, we play to win, rather than playing to learn.

Ian Pilkington
57 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:27:08
The most humiliating result for England since losing to the USA in the 1950 World Cup. Thank goodness Barkley and Stones were pointedly ignored and Baines and Jags left out of the squad by the totally incompetent Hosgson.

Marino Svavarsson
58 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:30:21
Icelaaaaand... hahah! I love my country so much. So proud to be icelandic.
Peter Gorman
59 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:32:39
England were so shite I don't even want to talk about it but we all knew it and are glad our lads were spared the humiliation.

So let's play Brexit balls! See how many references to a completely irrelevant event you can crowbar in. Bonus points for imagining you are being witty and original.

Mike Hughes
60 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:33:31
The Prime Minister gone.
Labour back bench gone.
England and their manager gone.
All in 4 days ......
Leicester champions.
Anything is possible.

Looking forward to 606......

Dennis Ng
61 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:34:12
Only a major shakeup at the FA level would help England. Anyone they pick here is just fodder for the next failure.
Steve Bell
62 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:38:19
What was the point in Barkley and Stones going to France? Woy never had any intention of playing them? Where they there just to make up the numbers or just to put the cones out for training?
What an ironically twisted joke these last few days have been. I can just see Sturgeon, Hollande, Merkel, Junkers et al rolling on the floor in absolute uncontrollable laughter.

Christ, you just can't make this up.

Peter Cummings
63 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:39:09
Not since the Yanks beat us in the '30s has our country suffered a humiliation like this, the writing was on the wall from the moment Iceland equalised, and when Hart blundered it was game over against an England team that was anything but.
One of the biggest culprits, next to Hodgson, was Rooney, I counted six passes he played to the wrong players, then we had Sturridge and Sterling making fools of themselves, Kane was embarrassing to say the least, in fact every last one of them were an insult to the shirt,

Take nothing away from Iceland. they played a superb tactical game and they showed a tenacity and belief In themselves not, forgetting more than a touch of skill. that made England look like cart horses in comparison and last but not least they damn well DESERVED to win, what made it sweeter for me was their royal Blue outfit,

Eddie Dunn
64 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:40:10
Rooney slowed England down, and Wilshire managed to be a carbon copy of him...terrible, but good for the real team out there. The Icelanders and their fans were fantastic.
Mark Rankin
65 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:40:13
Roy's pre-prepared resignation speech before not answering any questions despite being paid several million pounds over 4 years and two abject tournament performances

"Time for someone else to take on this group of young, hungry players"

Encapsulates everything wrong with both Hodgson and English FA

Ray Roche
66 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:41:41
Imagine how bad it would have been if Iceland could pass the ball. The number of times they gave away possession and STILL beat England. Why didn't Woy bring on Wilshire.......oh, wait a minute...
David Barks
67 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:42:52
The only question now is, will England get the trifecta of humiliation and get Boris Johnson as PM. If that happens......
Ray Roche
68 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:44:40
Incidentally, did anyone notice that gobshite Henderson stalking off at the end looking really angry? As if that prick would have made a difference.
Mike Hughes
69 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:47:58
Ray - it's the Rs way when the cameras are around. (See how JKlopp has increasingly sucked up to the Kop for the cameras).
Christine Foster
70 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:48:17
The resignation was a cop out. He should have faced the press questions and explained his and the teams actions. No matter he resigned, he would have been sacked 30 secs after the press conference anyway. Spineless, just like his team.

So the fabulous London boys really stuck out tonight, Walker, Ali, Kane, Wiltshire and then there was Sturridge and Sterling.. Not a single one should have been in that team and we all know it.


Andy Codling
71 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:50:37
As a Blue I fucking hate the England Football team , I watched the Rugby the other day and thoroughly enjoyed the passion of the players. Jack fucking Wilshere at the Euros ha ha deserved everything they got, I picture England as a Liverpool team ....... your really not that good!
Les Martin
72 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:54:10
I deal for Ross to come on instead of Wiltshire as the latter was supposed to replace Rooney normally.
Ross would have been ideal running through the centre tonight.
Trevor Lynes
73 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:55:51
I am afraid that our over hyped English players are just a pretty average bunch in reality.If Barkley and Stones do not show up well in training with this lot then they must be of equal standard at best.

Almost all the best players in the Premier League are foreign.We do make players of ability but no one in the same breath as Hazard and many other foreign players.It is no coincidence that all the clever players are foreign.Every top team has at least one foreign star who can control the ball, beat his man and pass accurately.For some mysterious reason we tend to over look this aspect of the English game.We do not have one player who can change the game using skill and top ball control.

We were beaten this evening by a side coming from a country with a population of less than a large town in Britain.Our club is crying out for a play maker and so is our National side.These players are lost at club level without a Mahrez, Hazard, Payet and Silva there to create the chances.

We need to coach skill into the youngsters...Wilshire is certainly not the answer and Rooney is running in treacle now.It is backward and square short passing at a very leisurely pace in front of opposing defences...keeping the ball but creating nothing.

Anyway it is back to the Premier League now and we can all relax and support Wales who although lacking in skill do show lots of endeavour.

By the way, I would not swap Jags for Cahill or Stones for that matter.Joe Hart wants to stick to his adverts, he is like a tailors dummy in goal.

Ray Said
74 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:56:59
Vincent Kompany made a remark today when doing the Italy v Spain game that stuck with me. He said 'Italy played to their cultural strengths. They played Italian football' . Spain play their way, Germany have their way-I don't know what the England team play but it in no way resembles the Premier League football of high pace, power and attacking.
Steve Cotton
75 Posted 27/06/2016 at 22:59:33
What did Alli bring to the table in his 4 games? Or Kane? Or Stirling? Or Rooney? I bet you could pick a team from the Championship that would have put 5 or 6 past Iceland...
Doug Harris
76 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:02:16
Not arsed one bit on England going out tonight. What I am arsed about is why if Hodgson resigns – why don' the rest of the FA board that appointed him do the same???

I've watched some crap in England teams over the last 50 plus years and that has to go down as abysmal. Alan Ball, god bless him, would be furious at that so-called 'display' of Fight for your Country.

Tony Hill
77 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:04:40
Actually a bit sad to see Rooney so obviously finished though I know others will not care. In the second half he was just gone, red-faced and exhausted. I shall be surprised if he gets many games for United next season.

Let's hope that Ross gets some confidence from that experience oddly enough, even though it must have been very frustrating: he watched Alli, Wilshere and co. produce pure shite despite the media drivel; how wonderful it would be if he started to believe in himself and realise what a talent he has.

Brian Wilkinson
78 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:06:26
Germany played youth the last Euros or world cup , I remember saying they may not win anything, but if they stick with the youngsters, they will improve, which they did.

England need to start the same mindset, play youth, let them gel together, may not get to the final, but in time, that team will get better, get rid of the old farts, build for the future.

Anthony Dwyer
79 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:12:02
Im just buzzing our lads sat it all out.

Imagine the fall back had Stones been so loosely marking his mam for the second goal, Hart wouldn't have been held accountable, Stones would have.

Imagine Ross was the number 10 throughout the tournament, never creating nothing, not scoring, just doing what Ali done, hed have been ridiculed.

Yet all the blame will be thrown onto Rooney, and yes he was poor, but how did Ali, Kane, Smalling, Cahill, Rose, Walker, Dier, Sturridge, do ?

The truth is, the team was unbalanced, the players lacked bottle and we were a total embarrassment.

Anyways all our prayers will soon be answered when Gareth Southgate is appointed.....

Steve Carter
80 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:13:43
Add "England do the Wallabies 3-zip" to that, Mike Hughes (60). (Albeit coached by a "passionate" Australian!)
Colin Hughes
81 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:14:25
Baines and Lennon should have went.Too many youngsters and not enough experience.Sterling, Kane and Alli were utter shite all 4 games.
Mike Allison
82 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:15:35
Same old stuff every couple of years. England's problem is mental.

They're good enough in the other respects but they're mentally weak and crack under the pressure. They're also a bit thick.

No-one seems willing to admit that so nothing changes.

Dennis Ng
83 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:16:48
Brian 78, yes, that would the best case scenario. However, the FA and media would not allow that. Unfortunately.
Ian Cowhig
84 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:20:20
We were crap at Cricket. Got Australian coach. Sorted.
We were Crap at Rugby. Got Australian coach. Sorted.
We are Crap at Football. Beat by Iceland......Step forward Peter Andre.....
Oliver Molloy
85 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:22:18
Gary Lineker was discussing this match the other night on the telly and was looking ahead to the possibility of England playing France in the last 8 ( completely dismissing Ireland before a ball was kicked ) " if we can get past Iceland of course " he said with his know it all smile...
Rio Ferdinand then piped up and said " Don't worry we will "

What you say now Gary , Rio !

England = no fight, no spirit, no bottle , no organisation, and that will always result in failure.
People like Lineker and Ferdinand are part of the problem.
Ferdinand is saying now tonight that England should have brushed aside all the teams they played in their group.
It's this England mentality that they are entitled to win , that they think they are better than they really are , that let's them down.
The commentator on bbc said when Iceland scored their second goal, "there's disbelief all around the ground amongst the England supporters and even the Iceland supporters"
How fucking insulting is that to Iceland.

When you have pundits like Lineker, Ferdinand and commentators who disrespect , you know why a lot of neutrals will always shout for whoever is playing England.

Well done Wales by the way !

Kevin Elliott
86 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:25:33
Now that we've got that shite out of the way..
I can't wait for the proper season to start.
Andy Meighan
87 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:41:44
Good post from Trevor (#73) but I'd have to disagree with the Hazard analogy. He was shite for Chelsea nearly all of last season and didn't bother getting his arse in gear until a few games to go. That said, when he plays like he did on Sunday he's a joy to watch.

I'm just glad neither Barkley nor Stones were involved in that shambles tonight. At least the press can't point the finger at them.

What I'd really love to know is how the he'll did Liverpool get nearly £50 million for that embarrassment, Sterling. I can't see one good thing he does. I actually cheered when Iceland got their second because them arrogant fuckers thought they just had to turn up and Iceland would roll over. Wrong. They were by far the better side and well deserved it.

I don't know about anyone else but I didn't think the result was in doubt once they went ahead. Ah well... looking forward to Peter Andre getting the most out of this young hungry talented squad. Nice one, Ian.

Peter Carpenter
88 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:42:13
Just love those slow motion montages set to sad music with close ups of the crestfallen faces when England go out. Anyone know where I can get a DVD of them?
John Paul McGurk
89 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:43:33
England no heart like NI ROI or Wales. Rooney in his prime was in top 5 now last 5 in M UTD squad
Peter Carpenter
90 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:45:50
Anyway, what's the fuss? Only a few weeks until the PL is back, the players will have fat new contracts, fantastic new haircuts, stunning new tattoos and fabulous new houses in gated communities. Wow!
Shame they don't realise they are nowhere near as good as they think they are. In fact they are a pile of shite.
Keith Monaghan
91 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:46:26
Roy Hodgson has like all of us faults, but like other recent England managers, he is not the main reason for our failure.
His biggest problem is the lack of English players playing in the premier league on a regular basis. How many class English midfield players or wingers for example?
The FA should never have given power to the premier league and stood by watching it destroy the England team. The clubs should be encouraged to develop English players who have commitment to their club and country.
I don't blame LFC, but how many players for them have a real connection to the city of Liverpool? Similarly, MUFC, Citeh, Chelski, Arsenal etc???
I was lucky enough to be at Wembley on 30 July 1966 - when will be good enough to win a tournament again?
Dave Abrahams
92 Posted 27/06/2016 at 23:59:27
Who said that on an earlier piece, " the biggest problem we have is from an early age we play to win rather than playing to learn" so very true that.
Dave Abrahams
94 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:12:20
Keith (91) England won in 1966 because the tournament was held in England, no way were they the best team, so many decisions went their way including one of the worst fouls in the competition by stiles in the semi final allowed to go unpunished.

Stanley Rouse was president of FIFA at the time and that alone helped England enormously. Argentina were much Better tactically than England and had they had eleven players on the field when they played England they would have been victorious.

I am still waiting for the replay of the final versus Germany, it took nearly thirty years for the winner to be recognised as a legitimate goal and there was a supporter on the pitch when the fourth goal went in.

England, I'd rather have Liverpool as a team than England although I might have gone a bit too far with that!!!!!

Andy Crooks
95 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:15:39
Sadly, Roy Hodgson is an inept limp dick and his team are an image of him. Sturridge, Sterling, Wilshire, Hart, Kane, all of them utter shite. Appoint Southgate and more years will be wasted. Moyes for England!!
Andy Crooks
96 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:19:15
Dave, I think England won in 1966 because they had a great manager who, in a quiet way, did not give a flying fuck for the FA.
Dave Abrahams
97 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:23:58
Andy, I will agree with you that Ramsay was his own man and managed England the way he wanted and was answerable to himself and no one else, nevertheless I will stick to my guns and say they won the 1966 World Cup for, mostly the reasons I have stated above.
Bob Parrington
98 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:34:26
Just confirms the BREXIT vote. England doesn't want to be in Europe.

But seriously, this team has been badly selected and badly managed from the start. Hopefully, Hodgson has resigned already.

Taking the game in to account, first bad decision was to include Sterling (clueless for sometime now). Second bad decision was to put on Wilshire (massively out of form) and to move Rooney to make way for him. Another point, why TF was Kane taking the long free kicks/crosses and corners (at times). Big guy, needed in the box......OMG. But many of the players appeared to be not wanting to put in for their country for much of the game. Where was the passion?

Clueless Clueless Clueless.

Well done Iceland!!!!

Bob Parrington
99 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:34:26
Just confirms the BREXIT vote. England doesn't want to be in Europe.

But seriously, this team has been badly selected and badly managed from the start. Hopefully, Hodgson has resigned already.

Taking the game in to account, first bad decision was to include Sterling (clueless for sometime now). Second bad decision was to put on Wilshire (massively out of form) and to move Rooney to make way for him. Another point, why TF was Kane taking the long free kicks/crosses and corners (at times). Big guy, needed in the box......OMG. But many of the players appeared to be not wanting to put in for their country for much of the game. Where was the passion?

Clueless Clueless Clueless.

Well done Iceland!!!!

Trevor Lynes
100 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:35:00
When all the teams in the original first division played without foreign players we did win trophy's against European opposition.That was because we had to 'make' play makers amongst our teams.Liverpool won European cups without foreign players and so did we and a few other clubs.Now with the tremendous amount of media money our clubs are shopping abroad, virtually every top team has a foreign play maker which stifles the development of similar English players.Our kids just give the ball to the foreign star who makes the incisive pass.None of our lot seem to know how to open up a stubborn defence.Our National side does not score often enough from open play.We do not have an Ozil, Hazard or Payet in our National team.Wilshire is poor by their standards and he is supposed to be our best choice....... WHY ?Surely our coaches should be able to identify this problem.At Everton we are producing lots of promising youngsters who are mainly defenders, where are our play makers ?Perhaps Osman should be coaching them in the art of at least controlling a ball properly, beating a man and passing accurately forwards.We are developing loads of super fit, quick running drones who have limited football ability but can do a 'job'.None of them can cross a ball as well as our opponents and most of them never shoot.Iceland's goal keeper today was not over worked, his defenders coped with our predictable attempts to score quite comfortably.
Jay Harris
101 Posted 28/06/2016 at 01:48:34
This should put paid to those advocating a Ronney return. It proves he cannot play 2 or 3 games in succession.

The 2 CBs tonight were like robots and could not muster a decent pass forward between them.

How the hell did Alli, sterling, and Kane get to play in every game while Ross sat chewing gum.

Roy deserves the sack just for taking Wilshire a totally amateur decision

James Stewart
102 Posted 28/06/2016 at 01:56:46
One of the worst England managers of all time.
Eugene Ruane
103 Posted 28/06/2016 at 02:14:49


You knew exactly what you were going to see before you saw it.

The whole thing was truly horrible and if that really is the best on offer, then we might as well all pack it in.

But enough about Bob Parrington's brexit gag, if I'm honest, I really enjoyed watching England (a nation of 60 million) get wellied by a handful of fishermen who live on an iceberg (particularly as none of our lads were stained by events on the pitch).

Maybe if England supporters sung songs that got behind the team rather than ditties about saving a luminous hat-wearing old lady, 'the lads' might feel more inspired.

Anyway not arsed, I only support one team and it's not England.


Jamie Sweet
104 Posted 28/06/2016 at 03:35:18
Iceland just confirming what we learnt from Leicester last season, that heart, guts, team spirit and togetherness can triumph over fancy overpaid prima donna's.

Roy also making the classic mistake of picking old favourites over form players and then trying to crowbar them into a formation which suited very few of them.

Sturridge isn't a wide player. Rooney isn't a midfielder. Sterling isn't a footballer. Wiltshire has just rolled off his hospital bed.

Absolutely clueless, pathetic and completely and utterly thoroughly deserved.

Then I hear it could be Gareth Southgate next.....

No words.

Garry Corgan
106 Posted 28/06/2016 at 06:28:00
Looking at th list of contenders I'm underwhelmed by them all. There's one name missing from the list though ... David Beckham.

Let's look at the checklist:

- Definitely a figurehead, and a man most people would get behind.
- Knows the players and would have their complete respect.
- Knowledge of the game at the highest level.
- Relatively recent experience of the English game, European game and international game.
- Something of a statement of intent, in terms of appointing a manager other nations will recognise.
- Has worked under some of the best managers in the game during his career.

And of course the big negative:

- No managerial experience whatsoever.

The last point, I think, can be resolved by putting a good coaching team around him. This is not a club side so let the clubs focus on the player development and the day-to-day. The England team just needs to be motivated and given tactical instruction. Managers being appointed at international level without experience is not unprecedented - Klinsmann and Beckenbaur for example.

I wouldn't advocate Beckham if there was another credible candidate but none of them - Southgate, Pardew, Allardyce, Howe - tick as many boxes in my opinion.

David Price
107 Posted 28/06/2016 at 06:34:53
As a Welshman, I've supported England during every World Cup and Euros since I can remember, for obvious reasons.

I, as many England supporters on here, am gutted for the youngsters in the squad and also the many talented footballers Roy decided to leave behind, even though the likes of Jack Wilshere were nowhere near fit or good enough to wear an England shirt. I remember Roy saying he would pick players on form... Oh how hollow those words must sound in the corridors of the FA today.

As for what's wrong with English football, look at the amount of money spent at the top and the lack of support at grass-roots level. I hope Wales use the money we have earned and pump it into our system to stem the decline of our game.

COYB and let's hope Ronald sorts out Stones and keeps him at the club.

Derek Thomas
108 Posted 28/06/2016 at 06:44:03
Garry; there are as many good managerial candidates as the there are good players for England - none.

I am still laughing though, laughing at Gray and Souness arguing which is worse; Abject or Pathetic...when the answer is both.

Christopher Timmins
109 Posted 28/06/2016 at 06:50:01
Thank God the Everton boys played no part in proceedings. Last night should scar every player who was involved.
Tony Draper
110 Posted 28/06/2016 at 06:56:50
A surprise ?
Really ?

Would hodgson have been appointed by Germany, Spain, Italy, Argentina ?

My Dad summed it up brilliantly, hodgson looks like one of the old buffoons in the upper offices of the FA. They appointed one in their own image.

So, for me, THAT is where the axe needs to fall and fall swiftly, but it won't because they are entirely free from any form of criticism or evaluation.

As to whether our lads were spared ?

No, they were exposed to hodgsons interminable drivel for weeks on end and not even seen fit as "last throw of the dice".

On the plus side ? RK gets his hands on them earlier to begin the repair work, so that's a plus.

Alan J Thompson
111 Posted 28/06/2016 at 07:23:37
Didn't Brian Clough sum it up years ago when he said, "They pick the manager who looks best in the jacket."

Has anyone seen, in this tournament, a defence that would stop what used to be English football's best attacking option, combinations of wingers and centre forwards like Thomas & Latchford, Morrisey & Royle. Footballing central defenders are great so long as they can actually defend. I'd hate to think what a Nat Lofthouse would have done to most of today's defenders.

Erik Dols
112 Posted 28/06/2016 at 07:32:42
Garry (106) seriously? Beckham? I always have the idea that Beckham is, and I'm being very, very euphemistic here, not the sharpest knife in the drawer. England got its tactics all wrong yesterday and I expect Beckham to have even less tactical nous compared with Hodgson.
Roger Helm
113 Posted 28/06/2016 at 07:50:41
Why can a populous, rich country where football is the national sport, not produce players and coaches able to compete at the highest level? This is not cyclical, it's been true for half a century. I think we are the only country who does not export football talent.

One reason perhaps is that these days more than ever top football needs mental sharpness and most English players seem a bit thick. When interviewed they seem a bit dopey, unlike foreigners, who generally speak better and more coherent English than they do. I have heard that an English dressing room is a pretty hostile place for anyone who is educated or well-spoken. So many kids never enter the sport in the first place.

Other reasons - the number of other sports to choose from, the downgrading of sport in schools, the selfishness and self-entitlement of the "me" generation, the over-regulation of children, the high proportion of foreign players in the EPL.

But many of these reasons apply to other countries as well. I don't know what the answer is.

Stuart Gray
114 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:12:49
Felt sorry for Ross. Was man of the match for England in a couple of friendlies last year - now doesn't even get a kick when other players have been so woeful.

How Sterling and Wiltshire earned second (and third) chances is beyond me.

Glad to see the back of Roy, should have resigned after the WC but put himself first.

Christine Foster
115 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:14:01
Hodgson lost the plot when he selected his squad. It was clear then that he pandered to the London press and not a tactical formation, the praise heaped on the Spurs four right up to the start of the match was a disgrace, immediately afterwards the same press and pundits were all saying how poor they had been all tournement. Laughable.

Not one of those players should ever be allowed to pull on an England shirt again. They should forever have to live with that performance.

Paul Burns
116 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:14:54
English football is run for the benefit of the gambling industry and agents and nothing else, an excuse to suck millions out of mug punters.
The England team is selected by London journalists and contains any rubbish from particular teams who've scored a few in recent games. It goes unmentioned constantly as the pundit panels are all part of the gravy train.
One of the most important aspects of the game, the ability to carry the ball at full speed for up to 40 yards through midfield, is ignored for the turgid "pass sideways slowly" method and opponents just reorganise and wait for the inevitable bad pass.
Nothing will change, the tactical genius of Southgate will come next and great students and thinkers of the game like Chris Kamara will continue to infest the game in this country with their jovial, laddish "banter" while lining their pockets.
Craig Fletcher
117 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:15:33
An outsiders' perspective.

The English players that went to the Euros did not become poor players overnight. Harry Kane, for example, out scored Sergio Aguero, one of the best in the world, in the PL last season, in spite of getting off to a "slow" start to the campaign for Spurs. Dele Alli was perhaps the standout young player of the season, and Wayne Rooney's record for club and country speaks for itself.

So why is that English football teams have constantly failed so spectacularly at major football tournaments now for close to 20 years? (I'll give England a pass for making it to the Euro96 semis). Coaching/tactics is certainly part of the reason - the less said about Woy's performance at this tournament, the better - but to me that's too simplistic to lump all English coaches in the past two decades as varying shades of shite.

The English players constantly seem to be overburdened by a massive weight of expectation when on the big stage. They almost look scared, too tentative. Afraid of making any mistake. And, in a way, I can understand that. Being on the opposite side of the world I am constantly amazed at how, 1) the English media and tabloid press pre-tournament build up the hopes/expctations of the public, thereby heaping pressure on the players, and 2) the way the same media absolutely destroy and rip apart the players when they inevitably succumb to the pressure. It's of course even worse those days, with the advent of social media, thereby giving the sporting public an easier opportunity to absolutely crucify players for any mistake. Thank god we get to play Spurs first day of the season - I reckon Alli, Kane, Walker etc. will still be mentally fragile when game day rolls around.

Unrealistic expectations have been par for the course in the past two decades, remember the Beckham golden generation of the mid-2000's? I don't think I have ever seen a sports team as mentally fragile as the English football team. Take England's rugby team, for example - no pressure or expectation for their tour of Aussie, new coach, and the general consensus would be a series win for the Aussies. What happens? Unburdened, they give Oz a 3-0 shellacking. Of course, there are other teams who do rise to the pressure of expectation (being a Kiwi, I'll put the All Blacks in that category) but I don't think they live with the fear of getting a public battering if they lose. Our media in NZ generally are a far more accommodating bunch. There would be inquests, but the sporting public here wouldn't start burning effigies a la Beckham in 98.

Anyways, just my thoughts for what it's worth.

Ray Roche
118 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:16:28
Dave Abrahams #94

Dave, in addition to the points you make, the fixtures were also changed to allow England to play every game at Wembley which prevented the fans at Goodison getting the chance to see the national team first hand. We saw West Germany v Russia instead.Those were the days when I gave a toss about the national side,England, as opposed to London FC , which is how I view them now.

Paul Kelly
119 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:16:56
Hodgson- best described as; that old bloke who just sits in the shallow end of a swimming pool on holiday with a towel on his head.
Ray Roche
120 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:34:13
Hardly surprising when the great young hope for English football,Dele Alli , was given his first cap after three Premier starts. OK, at times he's looked the real deal but last night he, once again, stunk the gaff out and makes me think that the old adage about too much too soon has some mileage.
Ross has plateaued in his career but would have been a better choice than Sick Note Wilshire. And don't get me started on Sterling.
Erik Dols
121 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:35:12
Craig Fletcher (117) I also have an outsider's perspective, being from the continent, and I honestly think the English squad isn't that good to start with. Of course they should beat Iceland and I blame their loss yesterday on tactics/terrible line-up, but in general the England squad lacks quality. Aguero IS a better striker than Kane, for example. It is too easy to just compare them on goals scored in the premier league. And living on the continent, I do not feel the pressure on English players is different from the pressure on Italians, Spaniards, French, German and other big countries in football. Hell, I dare say that the pressure on the Belgium squad is even bigger than the pressure on the England squad. Read the media from Belgium and you know that the whole country fully expects them to win EURO 2016 easily.

Having said that, I still cannot begin to understand why on earth you would start with Sterling, Sturridge and Kane when playing Iceland. Or why you would select only central midfielders. And these mistakes are the same kind of mistakes England is making over and over again at big tournaments. How often did England play Gerrard and Lampard together, two players who play in exactly the same position, who move in exactly the same ways? England has a history of selecting what are perceived to be the best individuals (based on biased media btw) and not selecting the strongest team.

Stan Schofield
122 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:43:00
I thought Iceland were impressive (in contrast to England being shite). Skillful on the ball, and at least they looked like they knew what to do going forward. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to having the entire team at Everton. All their names end in 'on', which fits with Everton and Goodison. As they say on those designing rooms programmes, it could work really really well.
Paul Burns
123 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:49:53
What are you on Stan?
Craig Fletcher
124 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:50:02
Thanks Erik.

I'm sure the pressure is just as tough on the European teams, my lack of a second language precludes me from reading the Continent's media haha. I didn't say Kane was a better striker than Aguero, merely highlighting the fact he outscored him, so hey, he can't be half-bad, can he.

In this tournament, as I mentioned, yep poor tactics / poor squad selection, I entirely agree with the majority of the points highlighted in this thread already. But what always astounds me is this mental fragility which infects the English football team whenever a major tournament comes around. Surely the FA must wonder how on earth a side who had a perfect record in Euro qualifying come unstuck against Iceland, for fecks sake?! And the warning signs were there after conceding the equaliser in the last minute to Russia. In fact, the warning signs have been around since France '98.

You do wonder if the English management take with them mental skills coaches for the players? Sounds all a bit fluffy I know, but having read a few sports biographies, a lot of top sportsmen credit them with turning around their performances on the big stage.

Eddie Dunn
125 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:51:15
Similar to watching us last season, with square pegs in round holes. Sturridge(who I detest) could have got a sniff in the box, but was put out on the right - bizarre! The over hit passes from Deir, the sight of two defensive midfielders ( Rooney & Wilshere) when the opposition were only playing two up and had a midfield sitting deep.
Kane taking corners, and Rashford on so late that he was getting his suit back on. Add to this the baffling selection of the unfit players and the mind-numbing sight of Milner, Henderson and co on the bench.

The centre halves looked so wooden, slowing us down from the off, so why not bring on Stones to bring it out allowing Rooney to push up field?
The inclusion of the Spuds lads despite their end of season dip was also a mistake, and to give them so much loyalty ,despite under performing in earlier games just shows that Woy is a softy, and just pampers these spoilt kids to think that they are better than they are.

Craig Fletcher
126 Posted 28/06/2016 at 08:51:46
Very funny Stan (122). Or at least I hope you're taking the piss.
Dick Fearon
127 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:00:10
Despite that woeful display, Hodgson in his resignation speech actually praised his players and assistants.

After a similar Everton performance a furious Harry Catterick said, "I can't wait for the first of them to come knocking on my door seeking a wage increase!"

Stan Schofield
128 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:02:18
Paul (#123) and Craig (#126). Our new manager would of course have to change his name to Koemon. I'm sure he'll agree to that given the salary he's on.
Erik Dols
129 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:06:17
Well, Craig, to be honest if you put it like that I totally agree with you. Kane is a good striker of course and should have no problem with Icelandic defenders. And yes, I believe in coaching the mental side of the game as well and I have the impression that managers like Hodgson and Keegan and possibly Eriksson did nothing on this part of the game.

The England squad seemed unprepared for the game yesterday in every way. It is like nobody at England expected Iceland would play the way they did and I mean that tactically as well as mentally. But Iceland played exactly the same they did in the previous three games (and in qualification as well actually): they play on the break from a tight defence and they give everything they have.

Having said all that, the point I wanted to make is that I feel that apart from all these things, England just is not as good as they seem to think. I honestly do not think any player of last night's team would make the starting line-up of Spain – who are out of the tournament as well – or Germany or France.

Stan Schofield
131 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:18:54
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that England will never achieve anything until the facilities at schoolboy level are improved drastically, which has been an issue for decades. When you compare pitch and coaching facilities with what you see on the continent, and now in the USA, we're pathetic.

There's no chance of government sorting it out, with all the cutbacks, but the Premier League could do so, given the vast amounts money in it. The coaching includes all aspects, including fitness against injury and mental toughness, which we lack.

We have the academies, but I don't think Premier League clubs treat them as seriously as they should, with too much reliance on foreign imports to meet short-term ends. On this note, I hope the new era at Everton, with all the money, fosters youngsters as much as it brings in experienced players.

Anto Byrne
132 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:19:47
I reckon the players did what our players did to Martinez.

"We isn't playing this crap and if we do scrape a win then we will have this cretinous manager up to the World Cup."

How he got the gig in the first place is amazing, failed Premier League manager at Liverpool, WBA and Fulham. Walking disaster.

Brian Harrison
133 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:20:52
Yet another abject display from our National team, seems we never turn up when it comes to the big tournaments. All these players perform well in the EPL but seem incapable to replicate anything like their club form when they play for England.

Yes, sometimes they are asked to play in different systems, and sometimes played in unfamiliar positions which I cant understand. But I think the biggest concern is that the EPL by and large is a high tempo game. Yet everytime we turn up in a competition we don't play the way that our players are used too. Again last night the build up play was far too pedestrian (something us blues fans know only to well).

Successive England managers all want us to play a more possession-based game rather than the high tempo sometimes frenetic pace that most EPL games are played. So I hope the new manager whoever he is will adapt a more English style to our game.

Tony Ateman
134 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:21:08
Stan 128. Surely the chosen Manager would be Hodgson!
Terry Underwood
135 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:27:32
What is all this doom and gloom? Apart from a dodgy keeper, shaky defence, ineffective midfield, and a goal shy attack, England are world beaters... Seriously, even Scotland may have given England a game last night.

Iceland, worthy winners: well organized and more of a goal threat on the break than Woy's Wankers with all their possession.

Craig Fletcher
136 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:27:52
I think England (or perhaps more to the point Hodgson - did he prepare his players adequately?) at the outset probably did underestimate Iceland and had one eye on the quarter-final with France.

But hey, if I was a professional footballer earning £100,000 a week playing against a team coached by a part-time dentist, I'm not sure how seriously I would have taken the game either...

Rahman Talib
137 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:31:15
I do not see much difference between Hogdson and Martinez. Two birds of the same feather.

We should consider a Winter Break for the Premier League?

Liam Reilly
138 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:37:15
Was waiting for someone to blame the lack of depth and up steps that famous Celtic tactician 'John Barnes' on TalkSport this AM. Seriously deluded twat; taking blame away from the players and Manager.

"I feel sorry for Roy because there were no other players he could have picked upon".

Err; you were playing Iceland and there was one player on the fucking bench who isn't a boozer, doesn't smoke and has played more than a half dozen games in the season. You left Drinkwater at home, along with Walcott and brought Sterling and Milner.

Paul Burns
139 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:37:56
Football's finished in this country, hijacked by the London mafia for their own financial benefit.

For god's sake, David Davies, a man who's experience was reading the North West news, was running the show until recently, how did that happen?

Anyone should throw their name in the hat, you couldn't do worse than the fools in power now. Stan Schofield's plans look as sane as anything our own FA comes up with.

Peter Mills
140 Posted 28/06/2016 at 09:49:39
Stan, strangely enough as I was watching the last few minutes, thinking how much England needed someone with quick feet on the edge of the area, one name came to mind – Leon!
Rick Tarleton
142 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:09:23
There's no doubt that England's four best players in the tournament were Heaton, Forster, Stones and Barkley. Quite how Barkley is regarded as inferior to Alli, that posturing, master of flashily doing nothing, is beyond my powers of conception.
Mike Allen
143 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:12:17
Go back to the old days... pick tracksuit coaches and a selection committee and play a system that suits the players we have. Paying vast sums to these media driven managers for what? Endless drivel, mind-boggling excuses.
Mike Oates
144 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:23:31
Poor squad choice – Wilshere after 140 MINUTES game time this season!!! Sterling completely off-form, far too many central midfielders, no width, even Lennon would have done something.

Far too much reliance on Spurs wonder boys, who never delivered, and Hodgson had no idea at all what his best formation or starting 11 was.

My worry is not that Barkley and Stones will come back fresh, blameless, but as the Belgium manager, Wilmotts, said recently that any outfield squad player who has not been given any game time in a tournament, normally returns a shadow of the player he was.

Rob Halligan
145 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:44:38
Not seen today's papers, but no doubt some will now start putting the blame on the WHOLE squad collectively, meaning Stones, Barkley and the two unused goalkeepers will still shoulder a portion of the blame.

Oliver Molloy
146 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:47:45
Gary @ 106...

Yeah, put Beckham in charge and we can laugh our bollocks off even more at the press conferences never mind the football team!

Christine Foster
147 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:48:12
Mike, Generally I would agree with Wilmotts view, not being good enough is a personal slight players have to bear and some don't do it well. However it assumes that the manager knows what he is doing and the team is well chosen or successful. I would imagine the feelings of Stones and Barkley are more along the lines of annoyance and relief. Annoyance at being unused, relief at being unused.

Imagine winning the tournament and never getting on the pitch... both are as bad. But the inept squad choice that saw unfit and out-of-form players chosen ahead of in-form (Drinkwater) is the reason it was never going to work. Is it not true that every single one of us was just waiting for the team to be defeated? Why? Because we all knew this was a poor squad and a poor manager who selected it.

Scorn for all? More so for all the pundits who praised selection and the form of those who frankly should never have been there. No Jagielka, Stones, Baines, Barkley, Lennon... anyone of them would have stood head and shoulders above the disgrace of Nice. Not one of them would have laid down and given in... not one.

As much as I despise Terry as a person, he is still better (even at his age) than Cahill or Smalling.

One last thing: Rooney had a shocker, but god forbid he ran himself into the ground going past a stationary Alli and time and time again. His legs had gone but his heart hadn't.

Ray Robinson
148 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:54:21
If Hodgson had actually picked the best English defender, Jagielka, we might still be in this competition.

And how does Sterling even get near the national squad? A supposed left sided player with no left foot with Sturridge a right sided player with no right foot! You couldn't make it up.

Kevin O'Regan
149 Posted 28/06/2016 at 10:59:09
No pride, no love of the jersey, no love of football, no balls, no spirit, no fight – no surprise and nothing new with England.

I feel sorry for the Scots who would have at least given it a go – in fact Gibraltar would have tried harder. Not just an embarrassment for England, but an embarrassment the whole football world.

Congrats to Iceland – clever with talent, team, spirit and fight.

James Hughes
150 Posted 28/06/2016 at 11:07:26
Iceland started re-organising their game 15 years ago and started from the grass roots up. Belgium did something similar and have been reaping the benefits but are yet to win a trophy but are looking good.

England again took their best players available not the best team available so they played disjointedly as a result.

The Icelandic coach has just been on the TV saying the secret of beating us was simple. The right men, in the right positions who knew what their roles were. Something that has been said by many on here many, many times. So drop the 'stars' and pick the team.

Ged Simpson
151 Posted 28/06/2016 at 11:26:42
Thankfully it will all be over soon and we can get back to the Blues
John Schrempft
152 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:07:35
For a country that invented football, how come we haven't won a European or World Championship in 50 years? There are no easy answers, but playing and being really organized as a team instead of playing as overpaid individuals would increase our chances.

Why not study German, Italian and French football and see how they manage to win more often? Being a real team player brings success, whether it's applied to football,rugby, ice hockey or even as a member of the EU, although sadly the latter will no longer be the case.

"United we stand, divided we fall..."

Peter Gorman
153 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:11:05
James – Sounds like you are talking about Germany.

That last sentence of yours is the solution in a nutshell but there is no appetite to solve it in the FA, the staff or the media.

Mike Allen
154 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:15:37
It's not down to International teams to coach players; they should all have at least the basic skills. The reason the are picked for their country is that they should have a little more upstairs than the average player. Roy Hodgson has picked players with less than basic skills and fuck-all upstairs.
Liam Reilly
155 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:17:59
The Icelandic coach knows what he's talking about too. What is it; 6 games against England and never lost and he was extremely confident going into last night's game.

The sum of a team beats the mercurial individuals more times than not.

Peter Roberts
156 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:33:47
Ross Barkley is going to need some serious building up.

He has had to watch the likes of Rooney, Milner, Alli, Henderson and Wilshere stink the gaff out in a position he would flourish in against sides who sit back and would be vulnerable against someone who could run with the ball and shoot from distance.

I've said it many a time – Hodgson has a dislike of Barkley.

Tony J Williams
157 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:36:45
"The right men, in the right positions who knew what their roles were"

And there it is! Quite simple, isn't it? Put the right players in their correct positions and play to a simple plan.

If he hadn't fell on his sword last night, he should have been sacked for letting Stirling anywhere near that starting XI. The Spurs players have shown that they are all bottlers, they came 3rd in a two-horse race.

Alli is young and learning but to me he is the same as Lukaku and very rarely controls the ball instantly and often doesn't look in full control of the ball.

Surprisingly, the only player who can lift his head high would be Lallana. He was the player of the tournament for England, unfortunately he made many pointless runs and was goosed by the 60th minute and his effectiveness was cancelled out with being knackered.

I'm glad our lads didn't get any minutes under this fuckwit of a manager, he would have probably put Barkley on the wing and Stones at left back.

To me it seemed that he was trying to justify taking so many forwards by putting them anywhere on the pitch.

Sturridge, as much as I hate him, is an instinctive finisher and will score more than he misses (granted he is a greedy so-and-so but every forward should be a little). Kane looked done and having him take free kicks and corners was just idiotic.

I felt sorry for Rooney, you have one of the country's highest scorers falling back into midfield at the twilight of his career, causing him to do more work on ageing legs. Put him up front and let him shoot.

It's all bollocks really and it will be again with the new man who will bow down to the FA and press again, and so it ever was!

Raymond Fox
158 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:42:25
The national team have been a embarrassment for most of the 50 years since we won the World Cup. Why? Because the players are simply not good enough – how much more evidence do we need!

It doesn't say much for Stones and Barkley either, does it, when they're deemed not good enough to be picked to play with that shower. 𧷤k - 𧴜k per week, don't make me laugh.

The media who have a vested interest, in attracting audiences for their TV and publications, bum up moderate players way above their ability, and we like to believe them. The presenters and pundits are all on the football gravy train, just like those Euro MPs, and us mugs fall for it.

James Hughes
159 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:45:11
Peter G. sorry I mistyped Iceland. In my defence, 'Island' is how they spell it, but I wasn't trying to be hip or trendy (far too old for that !!)

Pete R. the same comment about Barkley was made by McNulty on the BBC today about how Woy showed a lack of trust in him but was wrong.

Les Green
160 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:47:33
Now he's out of a job, I wonder what the odds are of David Cameron becoming the next England manager?

He could pick his favourite players from his beloved Aston Villa. Or was it West Ham? Oh hang on, it might have been Burnley.

Colin Malone
161 Posted 28/06/2016 at 12:54:37
If John Stones was a Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea player, he would have been in ahead of Smalling and Cahill – in every game... no doubt about it.

It's not how good you are, it's who you play for. Jagielka is better than all three of them. That second goal would have been cleared by Jags.

It's about time we got the football fans choice instead of the likes of Greg Dyke, who was in charge of children's BBC TV not so long ago.

I'd go for Glenn Hoddle.

Michael Farrelly
162 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:06:30
England Euro Tournament Player Ratings

Joe Hart 3 - Very poor manage to leak two goals that he should have saved comfortably allowed a long distance Garath Bale free kick to sneak in he should have saved this one comfortably. Compounded this further by conceding a similar goal that proved to be the winner for Iceland. What is it with our keepers in major tournaments? Remember David Seaman V's Brazil. Remember David Green's howler V's USA in South Africa.

Des Walker 7 – to be honest, he has a good tournament take away his defending in the Iceland game he was one of our only threats going forward and was outstanding in the first two group games.

Danny Rose 6 – Leighton when fit and motivated is a much better player. However Danny Rose was okay without being anything really special.

Gary Cahill 6 – Did okay in the tournament without setting the world on fire. He was adequate at best I suppose but did not disgrace himself. One feels that Stones will certainly replace him or Smalling. (Under Ronny K's influence, he will be a solid England player for a decade at least.)

Chris Smalling 6 – Same as Cahill

Eric Dier 8 – was probably our Player of the Tournament and had we drawn a more coveted team in the last 16 he would have played a vital role covering in front of our less than convincing defense. Will be a very important player for England for years to come.

Wayne Rooney 5 – Was really good in the first two games.. in fact, he was England's answer to Andrea Pirlo or is that going too far? However he was so shite poor against Iceland that the 'Pirlo' comparisons have resulted in me being subjected to a A&OD test to determine my current presence of mind! He will play in the next World Cup simply because we having nothing better.

Dele Alli 4 – failed to live up to all of the hype, I am afraid. Provided a few very fleeting glimpses of his potential. He was clearly favored by Roy Plodson over our Ross who never got a look-in.

Raheem Stirling 3 – really only confirmed his status as one of England's most overrated players; wasn't as bad as the pundits made out but was pretty bloody ordinary just the same. Really satisfying to see Man Shity paid all that money for him.

Adam Lallana 5 – actually did okay without being anything really special in the group games. Hopefully a more penetrative option can be found in the run in to the next World Cup.

Harry Kane 2 – an absolute diabolical tournament... rank ordinary, why he was continuously permitted to take free kicks and corners begs belief. It really got to the embarrassing stage during the second half of the Iceland game. He lacked any hint of sharpness, I'm afraid; he is not our long term solution for the striker role.

Jamie Vardy 5 – Clearly not a Plodson favorite and I guess when called upon was no better or worse than anyone else, actually he was better than Kane but who wasn't!

Daniel Sturridge 5 – provided some nice touches but, like the rest of our much overrated lot, he flattered to deceive for the most part.

James Milner – 2 who??????????????

Marcus Rashford – 6 I have to agree with Alan Shearer, he did more in just 4 minutes than most of the rest of them managed in the entire game... in three games were Kane is concerned!

Barkley & Stones – 9. However they actually managed not to be part of this historic football disaster has to be admired. Amongst a very small group of England players who have a legitimate claim to maintain their current patchy at best reputations.

Nathaniel Clyne & Ryan Bertran 6 – both did ok against Slovakia and fortunately for them played no further part in this absolute debacle!

Roy Plodson – graduated with honors from Steve McClaren's football coaching school of pathetic nous. Maintained the sideline body language of a nervous nosy old lady neighbour peeking through the curtains at the impending disaster unfolding in the street outside his rickety old house! Although the 3 million odd pounds a season he managed to steal each season from the FA, he will no doubt fund a much sturdier villa in the south of Spain.

Gary Neville - let's not go there!

Betting on Plodson's replacement: Shearer 500/1 simply because he would have the respect of our squad of prima donnas and would probably do a decent job.

Me 200/1 simply because I couldn't do any worse than Plodson, Fabio, McClaren, etc.

David Moyes 5/1 simply because he needs a job and he would be cheap!

Hot Favourite 2/1 Roberto Martinez you couldn't really go past him could you? Although judging the performance of England yesterday one feels he already has the job and actually designed the tactics used against Iceland.


Paul Andrews
163 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:06:36
He's a better right winger than Sturridge.
Keith Harrison
164 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:11:20
Des Walker??? I know our defence was pedestrian, but asking a 50 year old to play there was a bit much.
Paul Kelly
165 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:11:32
Des Walker- are is knees still holding out?
Paul Kelly
166 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:16:33
And well done to Rooney saying he'd be available for the next manager if selected. Respect unlike several Argies throwing the dummy out the pram when beaten and many an Englishman too.
Kevin Tully
169 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:30:34
Clear evidence that foreign players in the PL make the English players look markedly better than they really are. Add into the mix a dinosaur of a manager then you end up with result we witnessed last night. Having so many strikers on the pitch was an indication of a manager (and backroom staff) who didn't have a clue how they wanted to set up a team for tournament football.

I read a comment last night which really stood out for me - make the next England squad up from players from the Championship & lower Leagues - at least they would put the required effort in.

We have a toxic mixture of multi-millionaires who are feted by the press every week in the Premier League. I doubt they are really that bothered when they go on England duty. There first loyalty is to their club sides - you don't see many players getting injured on international duty these days, the English players would much rather have Premier League glory.

Michael Farrelly
170 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:48:52
Sorry Guys.....................Des Walker!

It's been a bloody long day over here in Aus after getting up early to watch England shit in their own pants this morning.

Although Des would probably still hold his own with this present company of prima donnas...

Jay Wood
171 Posted 28/06/2016 at 13:50:09
All praise to Iceland for a thoroughly deserved victory.

A volcanic ice-covered island isolated in the harsh north Atlantic with the population of Coventry, 330,000, a genuine minnow in world football terms, comfortably toppled a so-called colossus of the game.

They didn't have to do or be anything special to achieve their win.

They were focused, not hyper (like Hart).

They were disciplined, not manic.

Each player was selected on merit, regardless of if he plays club football in a 'minor' league, as opposed to England's squad selection being made on reputation rather than current form and certainly not fitness.

There was continuity in their team selection and playing style from qualification to tournament, as opposed to a seismic shift in the same by Hodgson on arrival in France.

Each played in a role to which he was best suited, rather than selecting 'names' and shoehorning them into ill-suited roles.

They had a physicality and fitness England could not match.

Unless and until the English FA seriously address the issue of kids' football as other nations have done as far back as 20-30 years ago, it will continue to be 'rinse and repeat' for the national side at tournament football.

Barry Connor
172 Posted 28/06/2016 at 14:29:51

Good analysis of why the Icelanders (and most other teams) have the advantage over England.

Just one correction. Contrary to the impression given by the name, Iceland isn't covered in ice – that's Greenland which is also confusingly named!

It will be interesting to see how far Wales get. Sure they are a one-man team but Bale helps his team mates raise their game unlike Ronaldo who just wants everyone else to serve him. The concept of it being a team game is something which England would do well to think about.

Most of the England players appear to work on the basis that there is no urgency and their 'skill' will get them through as it does at club level where there is usually a foreign player to bail them out.

Robert Workman
173 Posted 28/06/2016 at 15:41:14
Instead of just sitting with his head in his hands, why didn't Hodgson give Ross Barkley the last, say, 15 minutes? Just tell him to run at them, not to worry about making any mistakes, to try and keep "Engexit" in the competition? He could hardly have done any worse than the others. It might just have been his moment.

I agree with others, I have never seen Rooney play as badly. In fact I didn't believe that he could play that badly!

Paul Kelly
174 Posted 28/06/2016 at 15:50:38
Don't blame the people, blame the system.

As England's rugby team will testify, get the right man... success may follow.

Paul Kelly
176 Posted 28/06/2016 at 16:04:49
Well said Paul. About time someone made a stand.
Dennis Ng
177 Posted 28/06/2016 at 16:06:51
Paul 174, with the FA as it is, they will find it hard to appoint the right man. Even if they do, the media will find every way to tear down the man. The shakeup has to start from the top to have some substance.
Matthew Williams
178 Posted 28/06/2016 at 16:16:22
Why do the squad of 25 players have to come from ONLY the Premier League???

80% Championship,
15% League One,
5% League Two...

This the way to go from now on... but sadly it will NEVER happen, so 50 more years of nothing to come methinks!!!.

At least the REAL footy will be starting soon... OH YES!!!.

Peter Gorman
179 Posted 28/06/2016 at 16:19:21
James Hughes, no worries, I didn't know that about Iceland and they deserve credit for thinking ahead. Germany did the same and are reaping the benefits just a bit.
Jamie Crowley
181 Posted 28/06/2016 at 16:33:13
Kevin Tully -

You don't need Championship players - you'll get my club, the USA, full of effort and not enough skill. The English fan would greatly appreciate watching this I believe on the whole, but you'd never get far in any tournament - at least not as far as the English would like.

All you fine folks need is a brave manager who chooses the proper side.

- the game was screaming out for a player like Barkley who would run at their defense, causing them to collapse to the ball, and freeing up other players

- Wilshere was a joke. He should have never even been selected

- Rashford changed the game in the 4 minutes he was on the pitch - problem is your coach put him out there for 4 minutes

- Sterling is the worst, most overrated player on earth and shouldn't have made the team. Again over to Roy...

- Vardy should have been on the pitch that game running the channels and stretching their defense

- Lalana (sp?) and Henderson you're having a laugh...

Roy chose these players / didn't choose the above and England suffered for it.

The issue is the coaching, selection, and tactics.

And the most important final issue, as you actually HAVE the talent contrary to what some may believe, is that you have no PASSION. It's disgusting to watch to be honest. You need a coach who instills that passion for country. Roy just doesn't do that.

Were I England I'd name a very young, English coach. Let him make selections based not only on talent but EFFORT (see Vardy, he should have started every single game). Let the new young coach learn, lose, keep the intensity level up, go with the younger kids and a mix of a veteran or two who keep it all together, and the sky is the limit in 2018 at Russia.

But England won't do that... it's tragic.

Watch... they'll appoint some foreign manager who's 50 plus years old who can't motivate this team and who will select players based on reputation - most of which won't put in the blood and guts effort you need in international football.

Players you need are in the English system. You need a gutsy manager who will actually leave the overpaid, average names at home and chooses the proper side who will go out there and play.... like Iceland.

Paul Conway
182 Posted 28/06/2016 at 16:48:27
During the last few qualifying tournaments, be it Euros or World Cup, England had very soft opposition. Maybe it wasn't such a good thing as there was a serious lack of competition on the way.
Helen Mallon
183 Posted 28/06/2016 at 17:13:18
Trevor Lynes – you don't need players with skills coming out of their bottom to be a good team. What you need is in-form non-injured players who play in their position for their club. Then they need a system that they know what they are doing in.

Football is a simple game but successive England managers just make it so hard by picking from the top NAMED clubs and not the clubs where players are in-form.

Trevor Lynes
184 Posted 28/06/2016 at 17:27:12
What I really cannot understand is why the other country's top players can all control the ball and look totally comfortable whilst ours make really infantile errors ie; miss-trapping, poor touch, poor short passing etc.

These guys are professionals and the basic skills are their job FFS. I can accept that some have better control than others but why do all our best foreign players have better basic skills than ours do.

If we want a so-called big signing, we will need to look abroad. We have been crying out for a midfield playmaker but we do not seem to be able to bring one through from our kids. The nearest we have ever had from our academy is Leon Osman and no-one since.

Helen Mallon
185 Posted 28/06/2016 at 17:51:53
I would also like to put the myth of tiredness to bed. The season is 9 months long there are 6570 hrs in nine months so on average Premier League players play for 57 of those 6570 hrs. TIRED, MY ARSE.
Tony Draper
186 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:04:59
Spot on Helen. Have these geniuses not worked out that the more successful a team and its players are, the more games they need to play?
Ged Simpson
188 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:36:08
Yes, Helen (#185) but what about having to learn basic maths to talk with their accountants. Then there are the chats with agents, sponsors and the media. On top of all this, there are the WAG agents, accountants and sponsors. Then there are lawyers and tax accountants to make sure they do not end up poverty-stricken.

Then negotiating fees for children's education. And somehow they have to deal with the holidays that have to be arranged of course.

There are some who need baldness treatments, others have addictions and therapy takes time. Others have girlfriends that need "modifying". God, the list just goes on. Imagine after all that there is the latest car to be decided upon and then bought.

And security. That must take ages. House alarms? Bodyguards ? And they have to be seen in celeb bars and restaurants.

Tough and so exhausting, Helen. Surprised they can even play at all. Have some sympathy!

Roger Helm
189 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:36:13
Are there any youth or children's coaches on TW? I think that it is there perhaps where it starts to go wrong. I was on holiday last year in a non-touristy part of Spain and the bedroom overlooked a football club.

Evenings, there were loads of kids, coaches and balls, starting with a warm-up, then skills practicing of passing, controlling and dribbling, then small 5- or 6-a-side games, in groups streamed for size and ability. It was all fun, with no pressure. It helped of course that evenings were the perfect temperature.

Is this what English kids get?

Peter McHugh
190 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:41:40
I find with kids football (U11) majority of coaches are intent on winning almost at all costs. A simple example: a kid throws it up the line always – if he ever throws it sideways or backwards to a teammate in space and right on his foot, the coach says that's wrong.

Also issues with language and lack of respect to the referees and opponents.

Derek Wadeson
191 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:45:52
Another abject defeat for England last night and, after the match, Roy Hodgson resigned.

Was this a lucky break for Everton in its timing as Koeman was sure to be on the wanted list as the next England manager if we had not done our business quickly after the end of last season.

Our new investment has just paid its first dividend in allowing us to react so quickly.

Dickie Langley
192 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:46:58
I coached U7 and now watch U10. Both parents and kids want to win, but the kids are encouraged to "play in all directions", to control the ball, to pass back to the keeper, etc. They play futsal as training.

The teams are streamed for ability (the local FA have little leagues of different standards, but the results are not recorded so no-one can get upset about winning/losing). The age groups play different sizes: U5-U8 is 5-a-side, then U9-U10 is 7-a-side, U11-U12 is 9-a-side, then full teams from U13 upwards.

Raymond Fox
193 Posted 28/06/2016 at 18:48:48
While agreeing that Woy did not cover himself in glory as a manager, don't kid yourself that changing him will solve anything. How many times have we been through the same scenario? Many, many times is the answer.

Players with real individual skill stand out in any system, regardless. Okay, you might not get the most out of them but you can still see their ability to beat an opponent and find a telling pass.

How many of our players are wanted by foreign clubs? Stones is reputably one, but I confess they must be seeing something I can't yet see.

Phil Walling
194 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:05:04
Not good enough to get a game in that team must be a bit of a sickener for our lads but, at least, they wont start next season tainted by the stench of England's departure from the competition.

My old man used to say he remembered the great Stanley Matthews saying not getting picked for the 1950 loss to USA added 10 years to his career!

Andy Crooks
195 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:12:37
Phil Walling, cracking post. My only concern is that our lads might have been tapped up by the toxic sack of shite they were surrounded by.

Wilshere being taken to that tournament and actually being allowed to contaminate the pitch makes Hodgson worse in, my view, than Martinez. I can offer no greater insult.

Dennis Ng
196 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:15:31
Andy, alternatively, maybe they made their stand for staying at the club, hence they were not picked. Here's to hoping!
Phil Walling
197 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:24:18
Andy, there were many occasions during the early games when I could have sworn we were watching Bobby's Everton.

Endless passing across the back, laboured build-up and useless set pieces had me turning off before full-time in two of the games. And then Hodgson's insistence that only lack of goals had blighted magnificent performances got me raging at the telly. Oh how I hope Koeman never comes out with that shite next season!

Tony Abrahams
198 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:26:43
Roger (#189), the weather makes a big difference when it comes to training young kids, but we have under-7s-12s playing in teaming rain, on mud-baths, in the middle of winter.

How can these conditions help bring out any skill in young players? I have watched 8- & 9-year-olds playing in these conditions for years, and no prizes for guessing who the best player on the pitch is in the mud?

All kids football up until senior school should be played in the summer. Start it on April 1st, because the fools should have done this fucking years ago.

Make football enjoyable for the kids and less of a chore for the parents, who get home from footy in winter and then have to take the car right round to the valets!

Darren Hind
199 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:30:03
Of course the players are good enough; not one single member of the Iceland squad would have even been considered for the England squad.

We sold our souls years ago, we traded measured football for crash, bang, wallop excitement. The Premier League is the most watched league because it's the most exciting, not because it's the best.

We all subscribe to Sky and are therefore every bit as guilty as the managers and the players for the steady stream of shite England teams.

We reward players before they have done anything, remove their hunger by paying them obscene wages when they're barely out of their teens... then scratch our heads when they are seen making shampoo adverts as a bigger deal than playing for England.

Come to think of it... it probably is!

Les Martin
200 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:34:38
Lack of quality players, lack of tactical awareness, lack of offering themselves for the ball when not in possession, and just did not work hard enough to win.

However, if you're going to lose, lose to a team whose Manager is called Lagerback, that's cool.

Good luck, Iceland, you showed what hard work can do.

Mike Allen
201 Posted 28/06/2016 at 19:34:49
In the press conference, it was said the players play for nothing as they give the money to charity; well, that gets them off the hook then!

However, will they give any of their fees to charity when they sell the inside story to the rags and Roy Hodgsonhas his memoirs serialised in The Times? Maybe a few "taking the piss" adverts for Iceland thrown in as well... They'll be feeling the hurt all the way to the bank.

I just feel sorry for the supporters who travel all over with the team through thick and thin and will turn out again next season. They take all the flak from our own media if there's any sign of trouble and have to put up with what we saw last night. It would be nice if they sent a few bob to the England Supporters Club.

Russ Quinlan
202 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:00:06
I haven't read all the above so apologies if this has already been said.
But while watching England last night it reminded me of the we played under Martinez, slow, boring, sideways, predictable, players out of position, all exactly the same.

How the fuck can a manager with so much talent as his disposal (not crocks like Wilshere, etc) screw up a team? Well Martinez did it all last two seasons, playing his favourites and just not a clue about formations to suit who he has on the pitch.

Even if we had got Iceland there is now way we'd have beaten the French and that would have been worse!!

Let's see which no-mark they get to take over, I see Moyes has been mentioned in some papers, OMG!!!

Brin Williams
203 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:18:59
On a serious note and putting aside all the shame and disappoinment that you fellows feel as the abyssmal showing by your eleven (wouldn't call it a team), how do you think the Icelandic team played? I thought they were superb and thoroughly confused, out-thought, out-tackled, out-played a very very poor effort by your boys.

Glad our two didn't play otherwise it could have affected them. As it is there is no shame in Stones and Ross coming back, they can hold their heads high and reflect on a lucky escape. Now they should get their heads down and concentrate on their Everton careers.

I thought the celebrations by the Welsh team, as revealed on candid camera, was a bit OTT but there again you cannot hide what is in your heart. Cymru am Byth, COYB

Tony Abrahams
204 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:19:24
I've said it many times, but the last time England had a team that was really worth watching was Hoddle's in 1998.

The media got him the sack because of a few crack pot remarks that never had anything to do with his ability to do his job as a football manager.

After the World Cup two years ago, Hodgson, said that England, had played like the winners Germany, at times during the competition? This should have told everyone the man was not good enough to do the job based on his footballing views? (England were fucking awful.)

The fact that he kept his job is down to the top people in The FA, who don't have a clue about anything other than themselves and money.

Look at last night; as somebody said earlier, does anyone seriously believe Hodgson went into the changing room after the match, sat down with the players, and got out a pen and some paper to write out his resignation letter to the nation?

Andrew Keatley
205 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:25:54
I don't think Ross Barkley should have played; he was lucky to make the squad considering his performances in the second half of the season. I do think John Stones should have played - particularly against opposition that we expect to dominate possession share. He has the ability to bring the ball into midfield, commit a man, and then offload the ball to a midfielder/striker in space. Cahill and Smalling are considerably less able.

Hodgson said that he would keep faith with the players that secured qualification, then said he would pick players on form. Then he totally bottled that and picked players that have big reputations. Sterling, Wilshere, Sturridge and Henderson all had seasons that were hugely interrupted by injury; Rooney has been relying on former glories for the last 3 years. Unfashionable though they may be, players like Mark Noble, Danny Drinkwater, Andros Townsend, Jermaine Defoe, Marc Albrighton - even Michael Antonio - all finished the season in great form, but were never going to be picked over players from more fashionable clubs.

We've been seeing the same problems since 2010. Our big name players shrink on the big stage.

Phil Walling
206 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:33:50
So many managers truly believe they belong to a superior race. Some see football as an academic exercise, others a war game whilst recent experience provided us with a guy seemingly addicted to Pass the Parcel.

Certainly they have a language of their own in which their assumed superior knowledge enables them to 'speak in tongues' whilst making it clear that 'the boy Stones' is going nowhere and everything is for the good of 'the football club' (rather than the netball one, I guess !)

Most of them are, in fact, frustrated players who were always too perceptive to do their God-given talent justice and thus, owe it to us and their charges to inflict their philosophies and projects on any club they deem worthy of receiving them.

In truth, of course, most are phonies who soon get sussed by their gullible employers and are then forced to move on to relieve another mug-millionare of his ill-gotten gains !

I honestly believe that self excepted, many contributors to this forum could do just as good a job. Well, at least, we'd be able to understand what they were on about !

Colin Metcalfe
207 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:35:22
I actually agree with Ronaldo , Iceland showed no ambition what's so ever , basically get all eleven men behind the ball and say ok now break us down if you can !
Italy is exactly the same , watching the game yesterday Spain was faced with a sea of blue for 90 mins and you know what ? It's F**king shit to watch , if the Leicester template is the future of football I will start watching a different sport ! I don't mind counter attacking football as long as the two teams come out to attack .
Sorry for my rant and yes England were dreadful but in my eyes football is entertainment !
Jackie Barry
208 Posted 28/06/2016 at 20:43:30
Read some article where Collymore, yeah I know!, is saying that coaches have said Barkley does not have a footballing brain. Now I know he does not have a football for a brain but who the hell are these coaches who have won sod all to say this?
Tony Abrahams
209 Posted 28/06/2016 at 21:05:05
I've heard it said many times Jackie, and I think it's best to let Koeman, be the judge, but Not many England players played like they had a brain either last night.

I shouldn't really say it, about one so young, but the way young Tom Davies, played midfield, in the two games at the end of last season, was really, really exciting. All the best midfielders have a great engine, one that purs, and doesn't go Sshhhu!

Ian Bennett
210 Posted 28/06/2016 at 21:09:18
Collymore will be going off Neil Warnock's view. Not sure he's someone you'd respect, a footballing dinosaur.
Tony Hill
211 Posted 28/06/2016 at 21:22:42
That's utter bollocks about Barkley not having a football brain. The subtle pass he made in a fairly recent game for Walcott to score was straightforward evidence to the contrary. His early form last season ditto.

Ross doesn't lack for conception of options, he suffers from hesitation in executing them and that is because like a lot of gifted people he seems to have fragile confidence. I hope and expect that Koeman will put it right.

Gerry Quinn
212 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:02:21
Stan Collymore?

The footballing "brain" that was so impressive that in 12 years he played a total of ONLY 250 games for 12 different clubs and played for his country a massive3 times - nuff said - brains of a feckin' rocking horse

Brian Williams
213 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:14:17
Gerry. Have to say I agree with him to a certain extent and said as much on here some months ago. Ross plays purely on instinct. When he doesn't do that, or can't, he looks lost at times and falls into the annoying habit of passing the ball five yards sideways, get it back, pass it back to the same player and so on and so on.....
Gerry Quinn
214 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:18:43
Brian, you are the only person in the world - EVER - to agree with Stan Collymore! I put him and Robbie Savage, and now Michael Owen, all on the same level of football expertise...
Brian Williams
215 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:25:09
Mind you Gerry. Collymore was only passing on what he'd been told.
Gerry Quinn
216 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:26:44
I think he meant Niasse or Kone
David Hallwood
217 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:29:24
Why not go for a dentist, I mean there are some talented tooth pullers out there
Ian Cowhig
218 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:38:02
After 45 Minutes. I had a feeling that it was going to end in embarrassment. And when Wilshere came on for Dier that sealed it. We had already spent 45 minutes trying to play eye of a needle passes through two organised lines of defence and obviously were going to try again but with two instead of one.

The pundits said the reason for playing Stirling was to go down the sides and put pressure on their full backs. Did he do it. No.

Roy waited till the 85 minute to change it and bring someone on to have a go down the sides. Iceland were frightened of Rashford. OK, he lost the ball a few times, but almost created something.

If you are going out. Then blaze of glory for me. And that was leave Dier on to protect the defence. Rashford, Vardy, Barclay on. Tell them to keep running at their back line with the ball. If they lose it, get it back and go again. We would have at least got free kicks closer to their 18 yard box, instead of the 41m out one that it showed on the last one Kane took.

And how the hell he got to take that after the numerous ones he had missed, I will never know.

Andrew Presly
219 Posted 28/06/2016 at 22:53:21
Tony @204 - I was sitting a couple of rows behind Hoddle (and Greg Dyke, although they weren't together) on the flight back from Nice this morning and spent about 10 minutes chatting to him at baggage reclaim. A nice guy to speak to the likes of me at the drop of a hat, very much as he comes across on ITV (whether that's a good or bad thing?!)

His exact response when I asked whether he'd be up for an England return was "the FA don't have the balls". A particular gem was "credit to Iceland but it's fucking Iceland"

"Surprised he's went there" was the grammatically troubling verdict on Koeman so of course I took the trouble to educate the lad on life north of Watford. Like others such as Wilkins he doesn't quite get it, which is a shame given his public profile on a terrestrial channel.

Is a huge Stones fan for what it's worth, "a great player in the right hands" and even rated Roberto by the sounds of it. Seemed genuinely upset at his unraveling.

That concludes the Glenn Hoddle dossier.

Tom Bowers
220 Posted 28/06/2016 at 23:04:08
Sterling has been poor since he left the RS and didn't do that much with them but was over-hyped and the RS made a killing when Man City took him. He only ever had a turn of foot but Hodgson saw him as a striker but his forays in the box were abysmal in many games.

To be fair, Hodgson was let down by some players who had great a great season but failed to deliver in the Euros such as Kane and Alli. Having said that, it's very unlikely they would have had much success even if they had gotten past Iceland. They struggled offensively against all three group opponents and only a last-minute goal beat the Welsh.

Vardy's success was a one-off with Leicester and I think next season will be very tough for him to shine. Wilshere should never have been picked to go given his lack of action last season, yet another clanger by Hodgson. The central defenders slipped up badly against Iceland and I for one am glad Stonesy wasn't playing.

Barkley should have gotten some playing time, at least in the Slovakia game but only Hodgson knows why he and Stones never got a kick in four games. It's done and dusted for England now so let's hope the powers to be take some time to get the right man for the job of readying them for the World cup. In the meantime, let's cheer for Wales.

Peter McHugh
221 Posted 28/06/2016 at 23:08:29
Andrew - interesting on Hoddle who I always rated as a manager. Unfortunately he let his lunatic views take hold.
Bob Parrington
222 Posted 28/06/2016 at 23:36:12
Comment from a distance:

"Er. Is something being missed here? Isn't it the "media" that selects the England team? Or have things changed?

If it is still the media that selects the team, maybe the media should be put on trial by, what else....but the media!!!!??? Come to think of it, was it the media that selected Hodgson???

(for the other oldies of us -– replace "media" with "press" and it is the same old sad story from generations past!)"

Matthew Williams
223 Posted 28/06/2016 at 00:03:32
The next Gaffer should be the Red Adair of English Footy, Mr Marmite... Neil Warnock, a bolshi fucker, straight talker, moaner, had more clubs than Nick Faldo, but knows the game & what makes players tick...

No chance ??? ... 50 more years of failure to come then!!!

Brian Hennessy
224 Posted 29/06/2016 at 00:31:35
I have listened to hours and hours of the aftermath of last nights match from the British media from home here in Ireland, and what staggers me is that there are still people out there that think with the right manager England should be reaching semi finals of World Cups and Euros.

Don't get me wrong, Hodgson did an appalling job and yes England should be good enough to beat Iceland, but It is no wonder some people outside England take such pleasure when England get knocked out (such as the Welsh team in that video), when the British media continue to over hype what is a quite average group of players.

A bit of realism from the media and the public about the real standard of English football would be a good startling point after this latest exit from a tournament.

As for the search for a new manager, I have heard numerous calls today that England need a "winner" someone who has "won trophies" – utter rubbish. What England need is a manager who has proven ability to get the best out of a limited group of players – someone who has done this at a club with little or no money to spend.

I would liken England to a club team in the bottom half of the Premier League who are looking to avoid relegation and maybe in the perfect world qualify for the Europa League.

Just like us here in ROI, and NI, England have no world class players. Wales do have one and he has taken them to the quarter-finals.

England's play reminded me so much of us under Martinez. Trying to play a passing game in the hope that they can turn out like Spain or Italy. It's not going to happen because the English players are not good enough, just like our Irish players are not good enough but our managers acknowledge this and play to our strengths with a style based first and foremost on hard work and commitment – something badly lacking from this England team.

Richard Reeves
225 Posted 29/06/2016 at 00:38:24
It's amazing how the people with the power make the same mistakes time after time and it will happen again if Southgate gets the job. We all knew what was going to happen after the last pathetic display in Brazil but the people who make the decisions on hiring and firing didn't. They are the people who should be receiving the focus of criticism.
Brian Porter
226 Posted 29/06/2016 at 00:55:10
The utter tripe being hurled around about Ross having no 'football brain' makes me laugh. Instead of concentrating their ire and angst on those who actually went out and played, parts of the media now choose to direct their vitriol against a player who got no chance to show his capabilities in France.

My response is simply that the so-called first choice midfielders Hodgson picked to play didn't exactly show much 'footballing brain' did they? Constantly trying the same things and constantly failing, slowing the game down to suit Iceland perfectly and an inability to try something different and intuitive, precisely the things Barclay is good at but qualities not recognised or utilised by Hodgson who should never have been England manager in the first place.

What international manager in his right mind takes a player who has only played one game all season to a major championships? Nuff said, Hodgson is gone, lots of reputations ruined, (or will they be forgiven by the new manager?), but Barclay and Stones at least return untarnished by the entire debacle. New season can't start soon enough for me.

Mike Dolan
227 Posted 29/06/2016 at 02:23:35
Roy Hodgson is/was out of his depth at this level. It seems to me that Roy's approach of picking a whole bunch of different players for every game goes directly against the concept of TEAM.

Surely rather than running out every Tom Dick or Harry Kane who has a decent couple of months an international manager should decide on his team, then decide on his squad and anyone in that team should only be replaced by a player who is better for the team.

Everything depended on beating Iceland.... how many times had those eleven players who wore the England shirt played together?

Nigel Munford
228 Posted 29/06/2016 at 07:22:54
Colin #207, surely football is about winning, I for one certainly wouldn't mind Everton playing like Leicester, if it meant we'd win the league.
Roger Helm
229 Posted 29/06/2016 at 08:09:51
I find winning pretty entertaining actually, so long as it is us doing the winning.
Tony Abrahams
230 Posted 29/06/2016 at 08:28:38
Andrew 219, the fact that Hoddle, rated Martinez, shows that he's been out the game far too long now, but have you ever seen such a poor group of candidates for such a high profile job. Give it to Shearer, he's 12/1.

Brian 224, explained in a nutshell, and this is also the reason why things won't really improve. How can we get realism, when you have commentators, talking about England's, embarrassment of options?

Didn't Cappelo, tell the FA, that we are light years behind, especially when it comes to absorbing, and taking things on board, tactically.

Brian Hennessy
231 Posted 29/06/2016 at 09:47:02
The comparison's being made with the England Rugby team and their new manager makes no sense whatsoever.

The English rugby team have consistently been among the top 3/4/5 in the world for decades - went through a short bad spell under their previous manager and are now performing as they should be again.

The English football team are not near the top 10 in the world with a dreadful record in major tournaments in all but one in the last 100 years.

No football manager on this planet is going to achieve the same level of success that your Rugby team will.

Raymond Fox
232 Posted 29/06/2016 at 11:39:43
Brian 224 and 231, I agree entirely.

As I have said elsewhere our players fail in every tournament because they as individuals are not up to the job requirements. No-one should make excuses for them, we have witnessed the same shortcomings for the last 50 years!

The frustrating part is that we have seen no improvement in our players in all that time! Its always the same old story, just not good enough. The media bum them up because it suits their purposes to do so.

As far as Ross is concerned, I think he is failing himself because he is afraid of failure. He needs to put himself about much more and go for it, if it doesn't work at least he tried. The way he is inhibiting himself, he is shooting himself in the foot.

Go for it, lad, that's what everyone wants.

Brian Hennessy
234 Posted 29/06/2016 at 12:37:01
Raymond you are dead right about the fear of failure affecting Ross and this applies to the whole England team.

The 11 players on the field against Iceland looked terrified in the second half with the realization that they would be vilified the following day.

England are still paying the price for the way Stuart Pearce, Chris Waddle and David Beckham were treated by the English media for what happened in previous tournaments.

ROI, NI and Welsh players don't have this fear; every time they take to the pitch for their country, what they have is the goodwill and support of their fans as long as they give 100%.

Tony Abrahams
235 Posted 29/06/2016 at 14:14:29
I wouldn't disagree with you, Brian, but surely the fear of failure should always drive players and teams on. Another of those contradictions, I suppose, because if you give it your best shot, then I don't know how people can criticise.

The press have jumped all over this because nobody wants to really criticise what you said in your initial post. We just aren't good enough, and until people put their hand up and really accept this, then I don't think much will change.

I have heard a top member of the FA on Sky today saying we are improving at the lower age groups, citing the Under-21s recently winning a tournament in Toulouse, but until we stick on a style, and get every age group playing the same way, how can things really change?

This might not be the best Italian team of all time but the style of play which is ingrained into their culture is something they all understand.

Andy Williams
236 Posted 29/06/2016 at 14:55:12
Let's be honest here, a lot of England players are so overrated. When was the last time any Spanish, Italian or German Club wanted to buy an English player?
Paul Conway
237 Posted 29/06/2016 at 16:20:43
Helen @185 – agreed! When I was a nipper, we used to play everyday, and that was after school and weekends. In the Summertime we played two games a day, jumpers for goalposts 'n' all that!

And that was just for the pleasure without pay. :)

Rahman Talib
238 Posted 29/06/2016 at 16:43:42
For my money, the next England manager should be Alan Stubbs.

He has proven that he can get something from nothing with Hibs. And nobody knows football more than a scouser.

Rahman Talib
239 Posted 29/06/2016 at 16:49:37
If not Stubbs then Rhino.

Either one of them will bring back the World Cup back to England.

Nobody knows football more than a scouser.

Martin Nicholls
240 Posted 29/06/2016 at 18:42:31
Brian #226 – spot on. I knew and have posted elsewhere that not kicking a ball would not be enough for our lads to escape criticism.

Collymore dismisses Ross as a liability – shouldn't he have directed that remark at those who actually played and showed themselves to be such? e.g. Hart, Sterling, Alli, Henderson etc – the list goes on.

Helen Mallon
241 Posted 29/06/2016 at 19:48:00
Stan Collymore, Alan Brazil, Hawksbee, Andy Jacobs – they are all total gobshites. They have all gobbed off about how bad England were but not one of the slimey gits mentioned the dodgy player selection.

England do have the players to do well at tournaments but they never get picked because for decades the same big NAMED teams have a monopoly. Andy Carroll, Drinkwater, Townsend, Noble, Creswell, Jagielka all should have gone in place of Sterling, Henderson, Barkley, Wilshere, Sturridge & Milner. But that would not have been PC... it really annoys me.

The worst pundit is that fella (god, I hate how he says it) Ray Wilkins... he spouts some crap.

Brian Williams
242 Posted 29/06/2016 at 19:58:14
I'm bucking the trend on here and disagreeing about us having good enough players.

I just think when you compare ours with even some of the so-called minnows their players are more technically adept then ours. They're lacking in so many other areas too IMHO.

Jim Bailey
243 Posted 29/06/2016 at 19:59:12
"Are you not entertained"?
Dennis Ng
244 Posted 29/06/2016 at 20:02:53
Brian 242, good contrarian view. A lot of the players are overhyped because of the success of the league. However, as a friend of mine said "EPL is famous for the foreign players". Looking at EPL at its current state, it's difficult to refute that.
Frank Crewe
245 Posted 29/06/2016 at 20:15:05
It's amazing how the manager always gets the blame for our latest flop. Hodgson is the 15th manager England have had since Alf Ramsey but no doubt the 16th guy, who ever he turns out to be, will definitely be the man to make England great again.

When will we learn that English players are overrated, overawed, overpaid, and overprotected. In reality almost all of them are bog standard. Whenever we talk about skillful players nobody mentions any English players. It's always foreign ones.

The fact is English players are made to look good by the foreign players surrounding them. But in reality they are the workers in the top clubs. The fetchers and carriers and you can't build a top class international side out of grafters alone. You need skill, craft, vision, and poise. These are things English players simply don't possess. Yet we are constantly told that Kane, Sterling, Wilshere, Sturridge, Barkley et al are top class players without any acknowledgment to the skillful foreign players supporting them.

It would take a massive change in thinking in the way we develop young players in this country to produce top class skillful players and, since we haven't done anything about it for the last 50 years, I doubt we'll do anything about it now.

Jim Bailey
246 Posted 29/06/2016 at 20:44:25
Frank @245,

Probably the best post I've seen on here or anywhere else regarding the failings of English football.

Brilliant, well said.

Dennis Ng
247 Posted 29/06/2016 at 20:46:55
Frank 245, I wish more are honest about the English team as you are. Nothing will change until then.
Peter McHugh
248 Posted 29/06/2016 at 21:35:31
Hi Frank -I don't entirely agree. Liverpool and other teams dominated European football with British players for decades despite England doing nowt.

With influx of foreign players in 90s and getting "worse" every year we still had players which would grace all the top teams, Rooney , Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Shearer, Cole, Scholes and in my view best player of the lot Gazza.

You can't win every tournament but Bobby Robson did ok, Venables ok, I even thought Hoddle had a good team and unlucky not to get further and could be argued Sven unlucky (personally I think we woefully under performed with him).

Keegan, McClaren not good enough and Capello I have no idea why so bad in South Africa was it? Now hodgson, Roy Hodgson with his prepared resignation letter - what a complete and utter joke to appoint him in the first place.

The players you mention we are told world class - I don't think we are told that. I don't read papers much but you would have to be an idiot to believe thy any of the aforementioned would get in the top sides. I actually believe Stones would and perhaps Ali and Kane have potential, maybe even Barkley although I'm not sure. England have a very poor side and in my view an even poorer management.

Football is littered with great managers making average / good teams great - Clough with Forest, ferguson with Aberdeen, Ranieri with Leicester. On international stage, Germany and Italy invariably punch above their weight and other examples are obviously Denmark and Greece.

As I say I think England's CURRENT group are poor but I haven't really seen them bigged up and previous decades I would say we have had top top players. A missing ingredient on the international stage is bottle and mentality - obvious from our performances in penalty shoot outs!

Paul Burns
249 Posted 29/06/2016 at 22:37:09
Don't be bunging Barclay in with that shower of shite, he had nothing to do with England's debacle. It's bad enough when the London press blame our players because they're too cowardly to hang the blame where it really belongs.

Barkley's got more skill than many overrated foreigners. It's not his fault the game in this country is run by and for the benefit of fools.

Paul Conway
250 Posted 30/06/2016 at 07:25:18
It's the foreign players that make the EPL look good. Look at the French team – most of their players play in the EPL!
Steve Carter
251 Posted 30/06/2016 at 10:39:34
I, as an Australian, point this out for your consideration as to a possible solution to England's soccer, sorry, "football", woes: the England cricket, rugby union and rugby league teams are all coached by Australians.
Jim Whiffen
252 Posted 30/06/2016 at 11:31:48
Steve 251; my old man spent a lot of time sailing back and forth to Australia in the '50s and '60s. He reckoned you could tell a proper Aussie by the shackle marks on his ankles! Have you got any?
Mike Allen
253 Posted 30/06/2016 at 14:05:26
How the hell did Hodgson get the job anyway?... then be able to keep it for the full length of his contract, along with his staff – already abject failures as coaches before they got their jobs.

Neville, the Sky expert who was able to sort out every team's problems in the Premier League on a Monday night (even long throws). Then the guy in the press conference who will be involved picking the next manager: "I'm not a football person".

Now talk of a mid-season break to address the problem. The majority don't get a regular game anyway because they are not good enough. How many of these players would be picked if they played for the likes of Stoke or WBA? (No disrespect to them.)

A manager and his team earn their corn when up against it – not sitting on the bench with your head in your hands. Get someone in who can handle the pressure and the media – and that goes for the players.

The days of picking names and not footballers has got to end. Pick your team stand by it. No such thing as a friendlies in internationals – proud to play because you've worked hard to get there. Fit the pieces in the jigsaw, no square pegs in round holes; best player in that position.

The only stats the we should be concerned with is we've scored more goals than them. The game is simple – don't complicate it. No more Fantasy Football, please!

Steve Carter
254 Posted 30/06/2016 at 23:49:00
Of course, Jim(252)! You could also have mentioned the culturally cringing King/queen and mother country loving chip on my shoulder.
Andy Williams
255 Posted 01/07/2016 at 12:40:22
If Southgate gets the England job, he will just pick the same players as our Roy picked!!!

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