Southall: Everton need to give fans a clear message

by | 29/04/2016  97 Comments  [Jump to last]

Everton legend Neville Southall has called on the club's hierarchy to provide supporters with clarity over Roberto Martinez's future and the direction of the club.

The goalkeeping great was in typically forthright mood in an interview with Steve Hothersall and Dave Fehily on Radio City Talk today and he cut to the heart of the issues that lie behind talk of protests by fans at tomorrow's home game with Bournemouth.

Martinez is expected to face intensified calls to either step down or be dismissed following a worsening sequence of results in a season that was already heading towards the same disappointment as a year ago when the Blues finished outside the top half of the table for the first time in a decade.

Southall says that he can fully understand the fans' frustrations because they don't feel that the Board of Directors will take the necessary decision to remove Martinez as manager after a second failed season and bring in someone better.

“I'm saying to the club, ‘keep him in charge but you've got a month to find somebody better who can win you this league.' Then there's no need for demonstrations,” Southall said.

"The only reason we're having a demonstration is, yes, they don't like Roberto, but they don't trust the Board. And they don't trust the people to make the right decisions above him. You wouldn't be having demonstrations otherwise because they'd know that this fella [Moshiri] is going to get rid of him. But they don't know, do they? Because they don't know what his thinking is. Because his philosophy is… what?

[The fans are thinking] we have to protest because we don't trust you to make the right decision. Everybody who meets Roberto, likes Roberto. Take the nice fella out, [the football] is not good enough. It's blatantly obvious, it ain't good enough.”

A two-time English champion and winner of the FA Cup, twice, and European Cup Winners' Cup in his playing days with Everton, Southall has never been shy about saying emphatically that his club should be ambitiously targeting honours every season.

He has said in the past that there was no reason why the club couldn't aim for the title despite their inferior financial resources to the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal and Manchester City and he points now to the example set by Leicester City.

“We're a bigger club than Leicester, we've got more resources than Leicester and a better team. But Everton have missed out [this season],” the Welshman continued.

“I'd like to see a proper philosophy and a proper message come out the club, and that needs to come from the top. I have no idea what their plans are, I have no idea what their ambitions are or what their aspirations are.

“We don't seem to have a clear message and maybe with the new shareholder we will [but] I've never heard the Chairman come and say this, ‘this is what we want to do.' There's no long term plan. You've got have a clear philosophy in what you want to do.”

» Listen to the full interview  

Reader Comments (97)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Patrick Murphy
1 Posted 29/04/2016 at 14:32:50
A must listen for any Evertonian.
Ian McDowell
2 Posted 29/04/2016 at 15:13:35
Neville is absolutely spot on. We have no leadership, no aims, no ambition, no plan we just go week by week with no clear aims.
David Barks
3 Posted 29/04/2016 at 16:03:10
That Big Nev interview is absolutely brilliant. It's actually got me thinking a little differently about our current situation.

Essentially, the key points he makes is its all about the Board, not having a clear direction and philosophy, and the lack of trust in the Board is the real source of supporter's anger at Martinez. Meaning, if we had a Board worth a damn they would have let the manager know months/a year ago that he needs to get a defensive coach in. And we as supporters would have known what the Board expected so we wouldn't be here questioning whether Martinez will still be here.

Makes me wonder, what would changing the manager really do with this same Board, assuming nothing has changed with Moshiri joining, and BK still running the ship? I think what we should be demanding is that the club's ambition is to win the league, and the Board should come out and say this. And as part of that, whether it's Martinez or somebody else, that is their goal. If Martinez stays then someone must sit him down and tell him where we failed and what must be done to address it (defense and tempo), and that he must watch his words and stop with the BS in press conferences because the supporters won't have it.

Kevin Tully
4 Posted 29/04/2016 at 16:27:23
David, Precisely. It's not just Ranieri at Leicester who has to take the plaudits for their current success, the board were making noises two years ago about their ambition (obviously, nobody took them seriously!)

It's also pertinent to consider what the board want from any new manager. This is a major problem for me, because BK has been heavily involved with transfers and even identifying targets, he's playing at managing Everton by proxy, and he wants his managers to put up with his interfering. Remember the recent story about him being "the transfer conductor" next season? Moyes saying he rang him every single day?

That means he won't want a big name who will tell him to go and look after his own business. Kenwright needs to go and retire before we can move on.

Tony Hill
5 Posted 29/04/2016 at 16:40:10
Nev's words are like a cold drink in the desert. Kenwright must indeed go or at least be fully sidelined. One step at a time though.
Mike Hughes
6 Posted 29/04/2016 at 16:41:27
We need Nev on the board as a fans' representative!

He expresses exactly the level of ambition (the league) we need as well as clarity in communication, ambition, goals etc.

The straight-talking would be a breath of fresh air though a bit chilly for our comfort zone board.

John Keating
7 Posted 29/04/2016 at 16:51:09
Well guys
as I sit here with my 3rd quintuple GT and glass of bubbly I have listened to Big Nevs interview which I cannot fault at all.

However, it will be interesting to note, as the thread develops, how many people agree with him and if any of those people were slagging off the Blue Union a few years ago.

The couple of meetings I went too at the Casa, if I recall correctly, asked for something very similar.

Changed days eh ?

Eddie Dunn
8 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:06:38
What a lot of sense being talked on this thread. Nev should have been part of our club over the years with his knowhow and experience.
The problems seem to run deep into the core. Drastic surgery is required, - the cozy set-up needs shaking up.

We need an ass-kicking, no nonsense manager, with a big rep that players fear and Chairmen don't dare mess with.
I don't like him, but Mourinho fits the bill.

Damian Wilde
9 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:12:27
It'd be lovely to have a clear ambitious direction, but BK will never give us that. He's right though in that we don't trust the board. Everyone knows he has to go, but rather than just go and watch the game and let them do their job, we're scared they won't, hence the singing/protests, etc. Riciculous we have to tell them what to do!
Martin Mason
10 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:12:41
He's correct, success comes from the top down and when it comes down to it the board has not done its job by accepting the level of performance that we've seen since the last quarter of the season before last. I'll defend BK against most of the rubbish that's slung at him on here but this poor performance isn't unsubstantiated and for a club of our current potential it isn't acceptable.
Eugene Ruane
11 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:13:49
Love big Nev, agree with him completely.

That said, I hope they give Martinez the sack next week now that I've lashed out on the gear.


(keep an eye out for me tomorrow, upper Gwladys).

Gerard Carey
12 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:14:52
Okay, what Nev says is spot on. The manager needs changing, but there has to be a seismic change at boardroom level too. Let's hope Moshiri has the balls to go with his money too.

Let's hope a new brush sweeps clean and someone finally tells Bill to ride off into the sunset. But then this is Everton and change is always at a snail's pace.

Derek Humphreys
13 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:21:12
Big Nev talked some common-sense and some nonsense. He obviously has a gripe with Bill. I don't think his ideas are much different than the majority. Bill will do the right thing.
Gary Ashworth
14 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:22:28
Mr Southall makes some good points and pretty much says it like it is. If Moshiri is to instil some form of leadership and direction at the club, there needs to be better communication. The media vultures are circling, a large section of the fans are expressing themselves more and more. None of this circus is doing anyone any good, I don't actually think Martinez deserves this level of hatred. We either say thanks but no thanks, or we say he's staying... the Board needs to make a decision and implement it. If no decision is being made, then they need to address the fans and the media and comment accordingly. All this negativity, cloak and dagger stuff is creating a toxic environment.
Tony Waring
16 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:30:10
Kevin (4). Agree about Ranieri. Fans on here have been saying that the players he took over were essentially inherited from Moyes. Ranieri took over players most of whom were groomed by Pearson who was kicked out by a board that obviously were in charge; not like our current directors who appear to be pretty supine in the face of BK. Ergo the root of our problems lie with the board who won't face up to BK or the fans. Not sure my comments will solve anything but hey.........who knows who might be listening ?
John Graham
17 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:39:14
Good to hear someone talking lots of sense. We want action. Someone to have the courtesy to let us know what's happening. The fans deserve respect. The longer it goes on the more the frustration builds.
Jay Woods
18 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:45:51
I like what Big Nev is saying. However, I would like to point out that the club actually is giving us a clear message.

And this it: our grievances about how the current state of affairs are ignored.

That's the message.

We can rant online, we can send planes up with banners, we can write firmly worded letters of protest. It's all irrelevant to the club, water off a duck's back. Maybe that's because the board feels unaccountable to us and the club exists in increasing financial independence from us.

Or maybe it's because the club knows that Evertonians have bought into the "Everton Way" con (yes, here I go again). That we won't dare be militant or too affirmative in our protests, lest we appear like Kopites.

Kevin Ratcliffe appears to have been rolled out to push that line again in the past day, with words effectively rendering the definition of an Evertonian as "not a Kopite".

It's a cheap scam designed to keep us in check. And so far it has worked.

Jim Bennings
19 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:48:20
Southall is correct about the board at Everton but it's been the same way for years now..

Everyone was chuffed when we got rid of Johnson but in Kenwright's time here what has been achieved?
Have we moved stadium?
Have we done anything to the stadium?
Have we won a trophy?.

Kenwright basically had an easy time when David Moyes was here because Moyes kept the pressure off him with punching above the financial weight almost every season and finding cheap gems in players and getting them integrated into a team that could finish in the top 5, 6 or 7 in the majority of his time here.

When all is said and done if Moyes hadn't been wooed by the bright lights of Manchester United we wouldn't even be having a discussion about Roberto Martinez because Mr Moyes would be halfway through a new 5 year contract that was waiting to be signed in 2013.
There is no way Kenwright would ever have sacked David Moyes.

The problem, at least the deeper problem lies with the board at Everton and the lack of ambition.

Remove Martinez sure, that will make people happy short term won't it?

But unless there are some serious men on Everton's board who will put words into action and show leadership (over to you again Mr Moshiri) then I don't expect anything to change anytime soon in terms of big thinking.

Gary Woodward
20 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:51:44
God, you've got to love Big Nev; no bull, straight to the point, all correct.
Steve Bingham
21 Posted 29/04/2016 at 17:51:50
I thought there was a board meeting today? I keep checking online every half hour for an announcement but still nothing!
Jay Wood
22 Posted 29/04/2016 at 18:03:19
Hmmm... mixed feelings about the Big Nev interview, as entertaining as it was.

When someone of his standing speaks out - an indisputable True Blue Legend - you have to listen. He has always been forthright in his views, kow-towing to no-one and never toeing the party line, even in his playing days!

He makes some valid points about the goals and ambitions the board should be setting at the club. Namely, not merely making up the numbers, hoping to fluke a cup win or achieving European qualification via a high placed finish in the league. Rather, they should be telling the manager and players alike: win the league.

This season and Leicester have shown it is not a fanciful belief. The playing field, with the bumper TV deal effect, is possibly more even than it has ever been in the 'Sky era.'

Where I part from some of Nev's comments in the interview is when he states Roberto has not been 'supported' by the board.

Now that can be interpreted in various ways, but consider the following:

* under RM's watch, the board has provided him with the monies to purchase 4 of our top 5 buys EVER! Lukaku, McCarthy, Niasse and Funes Mori.

* even before he arrived, the board established Finch Farm as one of the best training facilities in the land. Just recently, plans were revealed to improve the facility further.

* 'the Everton Way' and a well-respected academy (to which RM has added to and from which he wishes to draw on in the future) was established, funded and supported by the board long before RM arrived.

* on announcing RM's appointment, BK declared the manager had told him he would take Everton into the CL. No lack of ambition from either the manager or the club there.

* after one season, BK supported and endorsed RM even further by extending and improving his contract. (Best not mention the ill-conceived Martinez mural on the main stand at the start of his 2nd season, eh..?).

* As recently as our LAST WIN (the quarter final win over Chelski, a 'mere' 7 games ago...) BK came out in very public support for RM with his ill-judged "What a manager!" statement.

The above examples undermines to a degree some of the claims Big Nev made that the board 'hasn't supported Roberto.'

To close, I endorse the underlying message Nev made: think big, act big, state clear goals of what you expect the manager and players to achieve.

Hopefully, before much longer, the new main player at the club will be implementing such an ambitious philosophy, which - make no mistake - requires a ruthlessness and professionalism too long absent at the club.

James Brand
24 Posted 29/04/2016 at 18:28:37
There are several issues at play here...
1. Let's not turn our attention to the board and muddy the waters - our manager is the nicest guy in the world and I love him to bits. Unfortunately, he hasn't delivered the promises he made (which lets be honest were ridiculous!!)
2. He has been backed financially better than any EFC (in my lifetime - 33) manager in history
3. The board may lack perceived ambition but financially they have supported Martinez (Niasse!!!!!!!)
4. So point number one is that irrespective of big Nev's comments, Martinez has not been let down by the board and so in my opinion should go - we are a results business.

Moving on to Big Nev's comments tho do highlight a bigger problem with the small club mentality of our board but I don't think it's the problem staring everyone attached to Everton in the face...

Question: no matter how rich you were, would you honestly pay £100m (waiting to be corrected on that one!) and then pledge another £100m via Boys Pen Bill and THEN not demand a seat on the board but instead install your mate AND appoint Elstone (who has been overseeing our small club mentality for the past few years) to the board!!??
Sorry lads - I smell a rat with the whole Moshiri = Messiah thing...

James Brand
25 Posted 29/04/2016 at 18:30:08
And for the record - I would pull out all the stops to get Karen Brady as Chief Executive - that girl has balls!!!!!!
Christine Foster
26 Posted 29/04/2016 at 18:33:45
I like Big Nev, as a guy he tells it like he sees it, warts and all, I doubt he is welcomed with open arms at the club but nonetheless his comments really are a confirmation of what most on here have been calling for, for quite a while.
I like Martinez's desire to play open and exciting football, but I want to see our team win, for Martinez far too often the way we played would be sufficient. In short his vision and dreams where not up to his capabilities. Flawed judgement and naivety undermined that vision and the subsequent loss of form showed that the players hadn't bought into his dream.
Our inability to make his system work was down to the fact that the strategy was flawed but we stuck at it even when it fell about our ears.
Many a player needed a boot up the backside because they didn't revert to their natural game when it hit the fan, they carry the blame too. There is no recovery under RM, he is damaged goods, time to move on.. it would have been nice if it worked though...
Michael Polley
27 Posted 29/04/2016 at 18:56:47
Big Nev is spot on
Ian Burns
28 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:07:21
There is no doubt when Big Nev talks then we listen, as he has the supporters very much at heart and he doesn't duck the issues which need airing.

However, I fully agree with Jay - 22 - RM has had remarkable support if only through non-interference if nothing else. He has uttered such nonsense for so long and on so many occasions, yet he wins one big match and we get "What a Manager" in front of television millions. Praise from the board (or at least the Chairman) for slowly strangling the life out of the team and dragging EFC down into his own familiar Wiganesque league positions.

I love Big Nev but some of this interview is misguided in my opinion.

Nicholas Ryan
29 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:09:09
Am I alone in thinking, that if you could combine Martinez and Moyes into one person, you would have the Manager of the decade!
Ray Said
30 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:11:45
Nicholas (29). We are Everton so we would get the wrong half-Moyes attack and RM defence
Shaun Traynor
31 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:13:10
"Joachim Loew now 2/1 favourite to become Everton manager. Odds slashed today and to take over after Euros." Make of it what you will
Ste Byn
32 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:18:24
James Brand 24 - "I smell a rat" I agree, something just don't sit right with me on this deal.

BK always spoke of investment, seems he just does not want to let go.

I don't understand that side of business much, will never claim to, but is Moshiri just here to double his investment by propping up BK till let's say this new ground (apparently) is built. I mean isn't their plenty of money now with this new TV deal for players? Smoke and mirrors?

Until this mushi monster comes out and shows us he's here and this is how it is, as far as I'm concerned we are exactly were we have been all along.

Martin Mason
33 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:25:57
I accept now that for us to become a successful side we have to get rid of our parochial board, very quaint but not EPL. They were great in stabilizing the club but have nothing like the professionalism needed to take us into the realm of the big clubs.
Jay Woods
34 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:26:06
James Brand - Oh no you don't!

If the board had any wisdom at all, they would have sacrificed Martinez on the altar of fan placation.

But nooooooooooo.

As a consequence, they are now being exposed as the root cause of the malaise and consequently fan displeasure (at least among some of us) is turning towards them.

Don't ever try to take away the heat that is their due by plopping it back on Martinez. Remember, Martinez is the symptom. The board (and the fans' addiction to "the Everton Way") are the disease.

Dave Clark
35 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:32:02
Big Nev said a few years ago "I fear we will regret failing to sign Jack Butland"...

Nev the best keeper in the world in his day yet the club don't seek his opinion or listen to him. How we could've done with Butland this season!

Martin Mason
36 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:36:15
Jay, it could also be that irrational fans stoked by social media are the modern disease?

The thing that still worries me is that I still remember that every Everton fan wanted Howard Kendall to be sacked, we were far worse then than we are now and if there had been social media then he would have gone.

What will happen will happen though, I'll just get some beer and popcorn. My bet is that in the absence of any other confirmed feedback RM is here for another season. Moshiri is doing the right thing by staying out of the running in the initial period.

Dan Davies
37 Posted 29/04/2016 at 19:41:02
Big Nev no messing about shooting from the hip, now we know why he's had nothing official to do with Everton.

Big Nev says it like he thinks, a spade is a spade and all that, quite refreshing considering the innane SHIT babble we've been suffering lately!

Go on Nev!

Paul Mackie
38 Posted 29/04/2016 at 20:04:53
Whilst it would be great to have Nev involved with the club somehow, it's times like this when I realise it's a blessing in disguise that he isn't. By not being on the club's payroll he can actually tell it like it is and I think he's saying what pretty much every fan is thinking at this point.

When a legitimate Everton legend has such strong feelings on an issue, surely Bill 'True Blue' Kenwright has got to listen?

Ian Hollingworth
39 Posted 29/04/2016 at 20:19:14
At last, a club legend saying it how we all know it is.

First step: get rid of Roberto as he cannot continue, regardless of the plans.

Second step: Moshiri tells us his vision.

Third step: Kenwright retires.

Bring it on. However I really do fear that Kenwright has found the mug he has been looking for and Moshiri is happy to stay in the background and we continue down the same path as always under the Kenwright regime.

Paul Conway
40 Posted 29/04/2016 at 20:33:34
We as fans are all being conned by the board. They don't consider fans' emotions or wishes. If they did, they would have issued a statement on the situation, instead of remaining tight-lipped and treating the fans with contempt.

Why did they not dispense with Martinez after the semi-final defeat? Why is he still in the job, long after his peers would have received their P45s for similar, if not better results?

Here's why: football to the board is a business, not about trophies. As long as the figures are totting up, that will do nicely! Martinez, apart from his lack of a Plan b, has turned Everton FC into a very viable business proposition, al due to his activity in the transfer market, be it by chance or astuteness. He also had the good fortune of inheriting John Stones and Ross Barkley, who came into the limelight on his watch.

That is why, after years of trying to flog EFC, Kenwright suddenly had a line of very interested investors, all salivating at the prospects of further development under Martinez, who to them might be a shit Manager, but is a very good judge of horseflesh. I doubt very much if the interested parties even understood ' the offside rule'.

That's why Kenwright is having problems ditching Martinez. To them, he is still a good business proposition. Who cares about the fans at Goodison Park? They can easily be replaced by fans in Thailand or elsewhere in Asia, maybe China, as that's where the business is starting to be done. Nurture and sell players to China and the sky is the limit.

And who better to judge the horseflesh to be sold than Señor Martinez!!

No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors!!!

Dave Ganley
41 Posted 29/04/2016 at 20:52:19
Yep cant disagree with most of whats written on here, David Barks #3 Kevin Tully #4 Jay Woods #18, but especially Jay Wood #22. Spot on.

James Brand #24, cant agree with Martinez is the nicest guy in the world. He is a snake, a prize bull shitter who has treated the fans like morons from day 1. He treated Distin like dirt, did away with what most Evertonians prize alongside great football, which is putting maximum effort in every game, blamed all and sundry, not least the absence of luck for every godawful defeat/draw from the jaws of victory. He doesn't get Everton in the slightest. If he did, he would be honest from the off. Instead he lies, distorts the truth and shifts blame where he can, even putting a share of the blame for our wretched home form onto the fans, unforgivable in my book. No he is a nasty piece of work who is only interested in Roberto Martinez. He thinks Everton FC is his stepping stone, to try out his idiotic philosophy until it finally clicks and he can get his move to Barca or some other fantasy dream move he has imagined. He deserves nothing more than our contempt and the sooner that fuckwit fucks the fuck off then we can finally start repair the dreadful damage he has inflicted on us in less than 3 short years. A RS infiltrator couldn't have done any more damage if he tried.They must be pissing themselves across the park. Nicest guy in the world? Only if you are classing "nice" as a complete incompetent who has utterly fucked us over at every opportunity.

John Keating, Quintuplet G and Ts are definitely the way forward and bubbly is downright decadent......expecting celebratory news out of GP??

Eugene, cant wait to see you in your shiny whites at GP tomorrow complete with racket......maybe you can hit Martinez in the dugout with a tennis ball

George McKane
42 Posted 29/04/2016 at 20:59:14
Karen Brady - for goodness sake - what an absolute horror - linked to the pornographers at WHU. No Thanks.
Matt Muzi
43 Posted 29/04/2016 at 21:08:20
I've heard that the club are calling round season ticket holders who haven't renewed yet to gee them up this evening. Calls as late as 8pm.

It's very clear what motivates the hierarchy of our club and is their long term plan!

Eric Holland
44 Posted 29/04/2016 at 21:12:26
"Joachim Loew now 2/1 favorite
Not on any of the big betting sites he isn't..
James Marshall
47 Posted 29/04/2016 at 21:33:06
I can't find any news on Loew being a contender either - it seems that Pellegrini is favourite, which is fine by me.
Jay Wood
48 Posted 29/04/2016 at 21:40:10
Ray Said @ 30 - thanks for that!

A genuine lol moment!

Only Everton, eh..?

Still chuckling...

Amit Vithlani
49 Posted 29/04/2016 at 21:50:25
Jay Wood "(Best not mention the ill-conceived Martinez mural on the main stand at the start of his 2nd season, eh..?)."

You mean this one I take it? Couldn't agree more. Totally ill advised!


James Marshall
50 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:01:30
Why are people talking about 'smelling a rat' with regard to Moshiri, and him not having put any money in? You can't buy players mid-season, or had you forgotten that small detail?

He only got involved with the club 2 months ago, give the guy a chance!

Amit - brilliant :)

Jay Wood
51 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:03:04
Cracker Amit!

Love it!

Damian Wilde
52 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:03:23
Martin Mason, you want him to stay??
Shaun Traynor
53 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:04:44
Eric and James spotted it here, probably all bollocks, but a name no one has said and I think someone I would be very happy to have.

James Brand
54 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:15:40
Jay @34 - I'm not defending our board at all!!! But I refuse to allow any vilification of any individual at the club to mask the fact that we have two very real problems at our club :
1. The manager on the playing side (which hopefully will be resolved soon)
2. The small board with small club mentality which is a much bigger issue and not so easily resolved as highlighted by Big Nev

Dave Ganley @41 - I cannot believe you have taken one throw away couple of words in a reasoned post and ran with it for a couple of paragraphs! I understand we are all frustrated with Martinez but read the post in its entirety...!!

Brent Stephens
55 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:16:00
Amit, did you paint that?! What do you mean, you live thousands of miles away. No excuse!
James Brand
56 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:19:23
James Marshall @50 - read the post! Not once did I even mention the purchasing of players!! I smell a rat that even to us paupers, it doesn't quite make business sense what is happening. Moshiri is a billionaire and you don't get that rich by throwing money around or having a good business brain...
Dave Abrahams
57 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:20:57
Martin (36) " Martinez is here for another year" Martin eat as much popcorn as you like but lay off the beer.

By the way never heard of that combination before, beer and popcorn, still each to his own

Phil Walling
58 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:25:08
Just to upset Jay, I'll repeat that Moshiri is happy to let BK call the shots. Martinez will stay or go at Bill's discretion !
Dave Ganley
59 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:28:54
James #54 yeah I did read your post in its entirety and I know that you also want him out, didnt mean to suggest otherwise......just got bit carried away with my dislike of Martinez. Sorry mate that wasnt aimed at you, more just aimed at the man who is destroying our club at double quick time
James Flynn
60 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:29:38
Not the rainbow wig!!!

That became famous over here years ago due to some fellow showing up at so many televised sporting events wearing one. American Evertonians will remember him.

The rainbow wig guy. He went to prison.

Colin Gee
61 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:39:29
Big Nev was my hero when I was growing up.

He's got it spot on.
The next Manager would do well to bring him in a goalie coach, I know he's put a bit of weight on but I reckon he'd still do a better job tomorrow than Tim Howard.

Tony Hill
62 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:43:07
They really don't give a flying fuck about the supporters, do they? They take the piss and must chuckle and snigger at the sort of exchanges on here, insofar as they ever look at all.

I shouldn't be surprised at my age, and I'm not really, but I do hope that we will no longer listen to shite about "fabric" and being "chosen" and how the Club is all about the supporters and is one big, happy, charitable and gorgeously warm-hearted community love-in.

There'll be more such bollocks tomorrow with that irritating bloke on the half-time PA and his special "Everton In the Community Is What We're Really About and Never Mind How Fucking Dreadful We Are at Football" voice. That's the authentic tone of Everton under Kenwright.

Fuck them all the lying, cheating, greedy bastards.

Richard Reeves
63 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:50:04
Out of all the ex-players, Big Nev seems to divide opinion but he makes more sense to me than anyone else. He never bought into this 'small club' mentality, didn't think much of what Moyes offered and has always been critical of Kenwright and he's never been afraid to say it – even if it meant he wouldn't be popular with the board.

I agree with everything he says here except not protesting yet he even explains why we feel the need to... proving again he has his finger on the pulse. The bloke's a legend.

Tony Hill
64 Posted 29/04/2016 at 22:55:47
Oh God, he's done an interview with Carragher in the Mail, as if it couldn't get any worse. He shares our pain.

Good night.

Matt Woods
65 Posted 29/04/2016 at 23:04:15
Talk in Amsterdam is that de Boer is being lined up for the a message from a huge Ajax fan. Says he needs the next step and would be great for Everton.
Dan Davies
66 Posted 29/04/2016 at 23:05:40
Tony, maybe we're not the People's Club after all ay? Kenwright's Club hmmm... seems to be a more honest moniker.
James Watts
67 Posted 29/04/2016 at 23:24:18
Slightly off topic but has anyone seen RM's interview with Jamie Carragher in the Mail?


Either this clown is completely deluded or he is going absolutely no where any time soon. This sent shivers down my spine...

"I have been here three seasons and there is an incredible amount of understanding and know-how of what we need to do. Is this a massive transfer window coming up? It is. Massive. Probably as big as the summer window in 2013. We have to be stronger at the end of it."

Mick Davies
68 Posted 30/04/2016 at 00:52:42
Martin @ 36 ''The thing that still worries me is that I still remember that every Everton fan wanted Howard Kendall to be sacked, we were far worse then than we are now and if there had been social media then he would have gone.'
Did you enlist Mori to do a poll, or is this just more off the cuff unthought out pro-Martinez nonsense? At the Coventry game there were about 12,000 fans, and a small proportion of them distributed leaflets and shouted for Kendall to go. Someone even painted it on his garage doors, but how is this EVERY Everton fan?
Please don't try rewriting history if you wasn't there, and don't assume you know what EVERY Everton fan thinks

Oh, and 'much worse than we are now? Kendall never achieved the worst home record in our entire history

Mick Davies
69 Posted 30/04/2016 at 01:37:50
James @ 67, that interview is like a comedy sketch with Alexei Sayle playing a football manager. This piece sums up how 'incredibly' stupid OPM is:
MARTINEZ: Yes, but that is game management. That is making certain decisions that you shouldn't throw those leads away. The modern trend now in football is to work on being very organised and hitting teams on the counter.
That is the easiest and most economical way of playing. You don't get hurt. I don't want to be like that.
??? But that is how we've achieved our few paltry wins - mostly away from home!!

John Roberts
71 Posted 30/04/2016 at 02:25:49
Great interview and very relevant points presented by Neville.

The interview made me realise there's two aspects to the modern game: competition and business. Fans (including ex players) want to win the League. Investors want a return on their money. And there lies the problem. Our current major shareholder isn't an Evertonian. He's invested money into the club and as a bottom line he wants a better return on it than he can get elsewhere. If he can do that without winning the League well, unfortunately, he's happy. There's no doubt his return would be greater if we win the League but that will involve more risk (refer Leeds United).

It's unlikely any Premier League club will reveal their true intent which is to make money for their shareholders. Unfortunately winning trophies is a lesser focus. As supporters we really need to get used to that fact.

Phil Jeffries
72 Posted 30/04/2016 at 02:41:34
Joachim Low is now 2/1 favourite for the job... It's in the Daily Express so it must be true!
Ian Linn
73 Posted 30/04/2016 at 05:32:36
James #67

Just read that article

"We have been built to take control of the game".

Well we must have been built wrong 'cos it ain't working.

Eric Myles
74 Posted 30/04/2016 at 06:07:22
Ian (#73), everyone knows that if you build your foundations on sand you will have problems with iintegrity of the structure
Mike Gaynes
75 Posted 30/04/2016 at 06:54:59
Jay Wood #22, you nailed it.
Jay Woods
76 Posted 30/04/2016 at 08:41:08
Notice that the Daily Mail article's comments are "moderated in advance". Now, as a DM reader, while that is common nowadays for their main news articles on PC subjects, it is almost unheard of for a football article.

Make of that what you will.

Les Martin
77 Posted 30/04/2016 at 08:55:10
Its a certainty Martinez will be gone, and because of one reason, Bill Kenwright!

Surprised? You should not be, because its the fact that Kenwright has not come out publicly and defended his Manager that says it all.

Knowing of his previous backing and gushings, he is plainly quiet when you think he would be aggressively supportive. Enough not said!

Matt Traynor
78 Posted 30/04/2016 at 09:12:16
Jay #76, I read it to mean that the club is on a massive PR drive. Interesting the Red Echo (remember the "they owe us one" quip from a previous Director of Spin) doesn't seem to have received the briefing pack.

The Mail also has a feature on the Programme today covering the JFT96 campaign. I thought I was dreaming, until I found an article saying Guardiola is going to sign Stones for City. Phew... was worried we had a positive newspaper then....

Jay Woods
79 Posted 30/04/2016 at 09:25:54
Matt, it's as if Kenwright has issued a D-Notice to the Daily Mail.

"Have Carragher interview him but don't let any negative comments through".

Of course one surmises that Carragher, who is the worst kind of ex Toffeeman (i.e. one who helped bring more success to the arch enemy), would have been glad to do his bit in perpetuating Martinez's tenure.

Michael McCarthy
81 Posted 30/04/2016 at 09:58:58
Have I missed something, who said we are getting a new manager?
Ernie Baywood
82 Posted 30/04/2016 at 09:59:11
I thought Roberto generally came off well in that interview. I still don't think he's the right guy to continue what he's started, but I do think he's started something... and that we might end up quite grateful to him.
Phil Walling
84 Posted 30/04/2016 at 10:16:57
Who knows, Michael ? Suspect the best we can hope for is getting the old one back again !

We've toured the world in these columns looking for Martinez's replacement but I don't think this regime will have looked any further than Preston !

Damian Wilde
85 Posted 30/04/2016 at 10:26:10
Jay Woods, you're a DM reader?? :o
Ian Hollingworth
86 Posted 30/04/2016 at 10:27:04
Get used to it guys he ain't going anywhere under this regime.

Any protests today will be put down to a small minority of disgruntled fans
Damian Wilde
87 Posted 30/04/2016 at 10:36:58
Careagher bottled it. Where were the "if your philosophy is do successful, why did it relegate Wigan and give Everton their worst home record in their history?"

"You consistently and annoyingly refer to the away record being good, but you have failed to win 11 away games, so it's a myth you're hiding behing to shield away from flak about the disgraceful home record isn't it?"

Steve Brown
88 Posted 30/04/2016 at 10:57:54
Diego Simeone, couldnt agree more Nev. And before we say 'as if' let's not be small-time any more. Our largest shareholder is a billionaire so we can compete with anyone.

Get a real quality manager like him in and our best players will stay plus he will attract real top talent. If Moshiri doesnt go after Simeone or someone of his quality, then we can safely write him off.

James Marshall
89 Posted 30/04/2016 at 11:13:03
Daily Mail readers? I'm quite surprised that anyone with half a brain, and especially anyone of an Evertonian persuasion, would sink so low as to admit to being a Daily Mail reader.

That interview with Carragher is pure farce. Martinez talking more rubbish as ever.

What's the betting if we lose today, he gets the bullet today as well?

James Marshall
90 Posted 30/04/2016 at 11:15:05
Diego Simeone is the manager of Atletico Madrid - where he's revered and respected, plays in the Champions League, and competes toe-to-toe with Real Madrid and Barcelona - now, can anyone explain why he would suddenly up-sticks and come manage Everton?

No, me neither.

Tony Hill
91 Posted 30/04/2016 at 11:17:36
James, I'd wondered about that too, it's not impossible he would be fired if we lost. What a complete mess they've made of it all, what fools we look.
Denis Richardson
92 Posted 30/04/2016 at 11:19:15
Simeone really likes the Beetles I hear.
James Marshall
93 Posted 30/04/2016 at 11:25:34
I don't think Simeone is going anywhere, and if he is it ain't plucky little Everton.
John Davies
94 Posted 30/04/2016 at 11:42:49
Sorry all but even if the demented Spaniard is sacked (and he should have been BEFORE the semi-final) things will not get any better whilst Luvvie Bill has any input at the club. Decisive action is definitely not something the fluffy one is known for. Let's hope the new man can be trusted to intervene but right now he too is becoming conspicuous by his absence. Is there anyone at the club who actually wants to make something of it?
Tony McNulty
95 Posted 30/04/2016 at 12:08:08
Big Nev spoke at the Everton Supporters' Club in London AGM last year.

A beacon of honesty and common sense. He did not give a speech, but just answered our questions and pulled no punches.

Someone asked him if he would get involved at Everton if asked. He replied, "Depends what the role is." As he expanded on his answer, it was clear he would tell it like it is, but not be hamstrung by any Corporate line. It's probably why he hasn't been asked.

Jay Woods
96 Posted 30/04/2016 at 12:14:58
Thanks for the nice insults chaps. What should I read then? The Guardian? The Socialist Review? Pravda?

That said, just because I read the DM doesn't mean I espouse its vibe. For me, it's not even conservative; it's more of a social engineering / propaganda device, just like the other rags mentioned above. And the restricted commenting it has enforced on the Martinez interview is just another example of how it tries to manipulate opinion.

Colin Glassar
97 Posted 30/04/2016 at 12:22:08
I stopped reading the DM after their "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" editorial. I do, sometimes, read their football section on-line though and then flagellate myself before washing myself with carbolic soap. I NEVER read the s*n though.
Ste Traverse
98 Posted 30/04/2016 at 12:32:20
Steve Brown #88

You're living in the type of fantasy world Kenwright lives in if you think Simone would come to us.

He's already at an established CL club who have the chance to win it, plus La Liga this season. Dreamland stuff if you think we'd get him.

If he was available some of Europe's richest and most powerful clubs would want to acquire his services. Us, in our current state, would stand no chance.

Tony Draper
99 Posted 30/04/2016 at 12:38:29
Big Nev, arguably Evertons greatest ever player.

This interview clearly places Big Nev as Evertons greatest living Evertonian. Not a single wasted syllable.

Farhad Moshiri, LISTEN to the greatest goalkeeper of all time. He has never claimed to be an intellectual. Yet he has laser guided insight.

His Evertonianism is on par with that of William Ralph Dean, peerless, and states exactly where Billy & Nev expect Everton to be.

Read and learn the Latin motto !

Then obliterate the "grey men" like Moyes & Kenwright from our proud history.

Give us "History not Misery".

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum !

Jim Marray
100 Posted 30/04/2016 at 12:43:46
Interesting position taken by big Nev a player I always respected although he occasionally proved the maxim about goalies being mad a few times. Not sure I can agree with everything he says about the board but then again I remember back in the '70s a suggestion that a certain Mr Clough was going to be Everton manager but that was overriden by a certain Mr Moores who did not like the idea of a manager who might challenge his positions and control of the club. And let's be clear Everton FC has always been the plaything of whoever was chairman as our board has never been big and there has always been a big shareholder who controlled the board.

For all Kenwright's faults he has invested in the club by pulling in money from his friends and acquaintances the problem being it was never the multi millions that the like of Reds, ManUtd, Arsenal and other could call upon and that is down to the fact that Everton is a small brand in the global economy. A failure from past boards to push for success (even in the sixties and especially the 70s) means that we are were always going to be a poor relation. At least Kenwright has tried to expand the visibility of the People's club beyond the borders of Liverpool to places such as Thailand (Chang may not pay hundreds of millions but the club badge does get a bit of exposure in Thailand) and China. That said he has failed in two crucial areas, he fails to recognise when he needs a new manager to take the club to the next level and in providing the new stadium that we so desparately need (putting a second tier on the Park End would have given us some help).

The failures of Kenwright are in my opinion symptomatic of a bigger issue with the Chairman. His is a hopeless romantic! He longs for the days of passing elaborate football and pleasant victories without effort. That such time never existed is the fly in his ointment. It is this romantic nature that allowed him to appoint Martinez, a manager who has a record that shows worsening league positions in each year he is at a club and who expressed Bill's dream of winning the Champions League with Everton.

Some on here have mentione Kendall and how "all Everton fans" wanted him out. That was not true then and not true now, and as someone who stood on the Gladyws St. in those days I remember pretty well the frustration but in his first three seasons he finished 8th and 7th twice. A level of consistency that Martinez as a manager can only dream of.

If any manger wants to win the Champions League then the first thing you need to do is win the Premier League. I would forego a cup if that objective was within reach as until you beat those around you in your domestic league you are never going to get in to the Champions League Semis. On top of that you need to finish consistently in the top four as a failure to do so means that your squad is not deep enough or good enough to win the Champions League, while Moyes was not the greatest of managers, his consistency in performance of his teams was something that a judicious replacement should have been capable of using to take the next steps to a Champions League position every year. Hence my criticism of the board he failed to make that cold blooded decision for the good of the club and instead being nice to a good a manager but one who coud not take the next step up.

The current board is still the closed unit that the majority of shareholders are excluded from and have no influence over. Moshiri needs to come out now to the fans to tell us what his ambitions are, that he hasn't worries me. If you buy a business you have to tell your shareholders and the markets what you aiming to do simply to build faith and establish confidence you know what you are about. His failure to do so increases both the insecurity of the customers and staff, reinforces the positions of those who are underpeforming since there is no incentive to improve, and worst of all allows the existing board to take the benefits without focussing on the new reality. Any businessman worth his salt needs to go the record now (or at least before the end of May) to tell the world how big a success that Everton are going to be and what steps he plans to take to get there. A failure to do that will simply mean that we can assume it is the same old same old and I fear for next season.

So Nev is right in saying that the board needs to be open with the fans and to tell us what they want from the club and team next season. And that statement is needed sooner rather than later since it will hopefully reassure us and more importantly put on notice any manager who thinks they are ready to take on a slumbering giant and turn them in to the next big thing.

Damian Wilde
102 Posted 30/04/2016 at 13:13:17
People who think Diego Simeone will come to Everton are officially 'mad'. Bournemouth have a few quid, maybe there'll get him? I'll tell you what let's go for Messi, Suarez et al.

The DM is a scumbag of a paper - worse than The Sun.

Denis Richardson
104 Posted 30/04/2016 at 13:37:38
Jim 100 - You say Kenwright has 'invested' in the club. I guess I'd have to ask you exactly what you mean by 'investment'?

Fact is he borrowed money and used it to buy shares in the club. Note not a penny of this money actually went INTO the club, it went to whoever sold him the shares (a load of which he has subsequently sold for a vast profit). Since then he has not put one single pound into the club (unless you're referring to him not taking a salary for the 3-4 hours work he does a week!) So saying he has 'invested' into the club is a bit of a red herring. I own shares in the club but would not say I have provided investment into the club - whoever I bought them off got the dosh and I can sell them whenever I want.

You then say you have to win the premiership before you can win the may want to look up a certain Mr Benitez and Mr di Matteo and ask them what they think about that.

So many things I could argue against but I won't. Suffice to say the root of the problem at the club is a Mr B Kenwright.

Steve Brown
105 Posted 30/04/2016 at 17:57:36
Ste, 98. Small time, mate.
Jim Marray
106 Posted 30/04/2016 at 20:59:48
As someone else wrote earlier in this chain, under Kenwright we got a decent training facility, we got an academy, we have built up a standing in the community that many clubs would once have dreamed and we have tried to build up our brand in Asia. All that is "investment" but I did not say that Kenwright wasn't a problem. I think you will also find I said that Everton has ever been the plaything of the largest shareholder which for a long time has regretably been Bill Kenwright. His romantic view of the world and football in particular means that he does not have the cold heartedness to take hard headed decisions on when to replace managers or demand a change in the way things are going either at a financial or footballing level.

The question is whether a man who is now the biggest single shareholder is willing to raise his head over the parapet and tell the fans what his ambitions for the club are? Kenwright told us his ambitions at the start his failure to deliver has been damaging but at least he told use what the ambitions were. So far Moshiri has said nothing other than there's a substantial investment planned for the club. That could be for a number of things, from investment in Goodison Park, to the down payment on a new ground, to boosting the wages of the players they want to keep and to buying new players. Exactly what proportion of the investment will be allocated to what part of what is needed?

In selling some of his shares to Moshiri, I do wonder whether Bill's romantic nature has once again resulted in a bad business decision for Everton? Until Moshiri actually gets in to the habit of talking to the fans and the media, then we are blind to the future and whether or not Bill will continue to be able to play with and abuse his toy.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.

About these ads

© ToffeeWeb