Jagielka laments penalty miss and depleted numbers following Hammers collapse

05/03/2016  102 Comments  [Jump to last]

Phil Jagielka cites the missed penalty mid-way through the second as being a turning point in Evertons latest home defeat, saying it gave West Ham the ray of light they needed to go on and effect a late comeback from 2-0 down to win 3-2.

Obviously with us getting the goal and going down to ten men, doing so well and getting the second unfortunately we gave them some [impetus] by missing the penalty and things went downhill from there, the audibly deflated skipper said after the match.

Sometimes sendings off can galvanise you and I think that sort of helped us but towards the end, having one less person didnt help. Obviously, having our backs against the wall and the penalty would have been a turning point, giving them a bit of belief to get something out of the game and, obviously, they did.

"We were in control [before their goal but we] didnt clear a corner, unfortunately didnt pick them up for the second balls [and] then they finished the game with a lot of attacking players on the pitch with a lot of quality and put us under a lot of pressure.

We were hoping today would be the day [to put our home problems behind us] but, unfortunately, thats not the case. We obviously have a big cup game coming at home. Were going to have to make sure that we perform to a similar, if not better [level] to get further in that competition."


Reader Comments (102)

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Matt Traynor
3 Posted 05/03/2016 at 18:28:12
That last sentence is Martinez-que
Trevor Lynes
5 Posted 05/03/2016 at 18:38:12
There must be a reason why we cannot hold onto a lead when we play at home.< This is almost the same defence that had such a good record a couple of seasons ago. Our defence carried the attack for years and now we are scoring goals we have forgotten how to defend.We normally play with seven defenders in every game so why are we losing leads so easily? Is it tactics or individual player error ?Barkley and Deulofeu/Mirallas must learn how to tackle and defend.Lennon is doing much more work. Lukaku has to come back to defend corners as we are being out jumped too easily at the back. Distin is being missed in the air as Mori is not jumping so well defensively and we really struggle against big sides.
Paul Conway
6 Posted 05/03/2016 at 18:47:38
The players can come up with whatever lame excuses they like. Don't tell me that as professionals (apart from Mirallas), they can't see that their manager messed up today? Why don't they say it like it is? And blame the manager!!!!
Dan Davies
8 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:06:34
Had enough of this now... time for the new board to show some teeth. Martinez has to go at the end of the season. With the money coming into the club, we should getting a good manager in with a track record of winning cups and leagues. NSNO
Colin Glassar
10 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:11:15
After such an abject surrender like that, instead of being interviewed, the captain and manager should be put in stocks and pelted with rotten veg and fruit.
Neil Gribbin
11 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:12:51
Absolutely disgraceful. Piss off, Everton.
John Atkins
12 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:24:17
My sentiments exactly, Neil.

Friggin' let-down.

3 points ahead of Bournemouth...


Oliver Molloy
13 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:27:07
Joke or what...?

Is this really the best our captain can say after another shambolic performance and collapse of the team he captains.

Stand up and be counted, man, and tell it like it is for fuck sake. Absolute disgrace – ONCE AGAIN...

Between the lot of them, how many times has this happened now?

I'm afraid I have lost my faith in Martinez; I just cannot see this man being able to take us to a new era.

Ian Howard
14 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:32:55
Lots of 'turning points' today... it is how you react to them.

For 75 mins, we were really good today, probably best game at Goodison this season. You could sense the deflation when the penalty was missed but that is not why we lost.

The reason we lost is plain and simple. In less than 3 seasons we have gone from one of the best defensive teams in Premier League to one of, the worst. We cannot defend properly, especially crosses into the box.

For reasons known only to Martinez he changed the shape / formation that had seen us get 2-0 in front and be in control of the game. Jags pointing the finger at the penalty miss is very poor in my opinion. Stand up and be counted. We lost because of poor defending again.

Barry Johnson
15 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:32:59
It has become far too easy for the opposition. At 2-1, I had West Ham to win 3-2.

We should have taken Bilic instead of the Spanish Pretender.

John Roberts
16 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:33:28
Have to agree, John and Neil. Embarrassing our team. No grit / mental strength in any part of the club, players and staff. Good managers install this and get results under adverse conditions, Martinez cannot.

We are not learning from past mistakes and I've lost hope... even the tiny bit I had left.

Glen Garrett
17 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:36:18
I am hoping now that Everton get knocked out the FA Cup next round – then Martinez has definitely got to go surely.

Everton need a manager with big brass balls. Martinez is weak & this once great football club is going nowhere. It is falling apart & Billy BullShit isn't doing anything about it. This beautiful football club is ruined,

Phil Williams
18 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:39:07
Fantastic effort by the 10 men.

Previous comments read as follows

Abject surrender, Manager put in stocks, Absolutely disgraceful, Piss off Everton, Friggin let down, Disgusting.

Shame on you.

The 10 men left nothing on that pitch. The first substitution was spot on, the second needed but probably Barry not Niasse and the third irrelevant.

So many people have been calling for Mirallas on this site, week-in and week-out. Kone wouldn't have left with us with 10 men for 55 mins. Mirallas is a selfish, all-consuming waste of space who plays for Kevin Mirallas FC – not Everton FC.
Give credit to the 10, chastise the idiot, and balance the manager arguments.

Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:39:11
Mate sits by the dugout and said McCarthy was screaming at the bench, "We are fucking going with three, I'm fucking knackered" when Niasse, came on. He said Barkley just shook his head.

He said a kid about 20 went up to the dugout, and was saying to Graham Jones, "Who is responsible for the defensive duties on this bench? We have got ten men, and youse have brought on a striker for a midfielder."

He said the lad never swore, or even lost his temper, he just questioned how such a decision could be made, and said it would be better if Martinez just left us alone.

So basic, and so basically stupid... Why?

James Morgan
20 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:46:32
We need a Nyarko style fan invasion to tell Martinez what we think. I almost feel like not watching anything else of us this season, I've had enough.
John Atkins
21 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:48:14
Phil (#18),

Yes, I know it was a great effort today by 10 men but, for crying out loud, it's not the bloody first time this has happened this season, is it? Time and time again, Martinez's shambolic tactics are to blame and we are being let down.

You might be happy watching an entertaining game but I'm not! I want to win, we have the best calibre of players we've had for a long time and if we had Claudio Ranieri in charge we'd be top of the league right now!

RM will not take us to the next level we all crave – he has to go.

I am fuming!!!!

Andy Crooks
22 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:48:52
Phil Williams, yes, Mirallas made Martinez pick him. When he was sent off, he ordered Martinez to act like a fucking cretin when it came to subs. Nothing to do with Martinez.

The 10 men did us proud. Our home form has been down to pure bad luck and shite referees. Mirallas is why our best squad in years are sitting down the table.

All those magnificent home performances without Mirallas negated by the insane decision to pick him. Absolutely nothing to do with Martinez.

Jim Lloyd
23 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:49:53
You make a good point Phil. The ten men didn't let us down, well, not all of them. I don't think Ross Barkley did enough to merit staying on the pitch in the second half and I would have been glad to see either Barry or Besic on in his place.

I think injudicious substitutions in the last stages of the game let us down. And Mirallas acting like a prize tosser let us down as well.

Most of those on the pitch deserved better and most sweated blood.

Philip Yensen
24 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:52:44
How much more shite have we got to endure with this total fucking idiot of a manager?

Coasting 2-0 then, in typical Martinez idiocy, he changes a team that is coping, more then adequately. Is this man fucking brain-dead or what????

Mirallas booked... take him off, no big deal. No; nothing... in fact, we played better without that dickhead.

So, top and bottom is, once again, the gobshite that's in charge needs kicking out. He is fucking useless. I believe this is the feeling of MOST Evertonians.

Kase Chow
25 Posted 05/03/2016 at 19:56:51
I think today is the day that I've finally decided that I've DEFINITELY had enough of Martinez

He has zero game management about him.

I'm tired of the constant disappointments.

Christopher Dover
26 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:01:52
Stones was poor and subbing him at the start of the second half was spot on.

The only reason you take Lennon off is if he was injured or knackered, two-nil up and he puts another forward on who has played very few minutes and looked lost when he started, so it left them one short in defence with ten men on the pitch you could not make it up.

As to the penalty am I surprised no, Lukaku does not normally use power and so it was today a soft tap and save.

I blame the players to an extent but more so on RM subs and managing the game.

I left when number three went in and have not heard so much anger before at a defeat from the supporters leaving the ground, how the manager keeps his job I do not know and if the penalty knocked the stuffing out of them then the run has finished so say good bye to the FA Cup and the game against Arsenal.

Phil Williams
27 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:02:45
John (#21),

I too prefer wins over entertainment (within reason).

The Manager's tactics were spot on for 75 mins. We were two-nil up with 10 men against a very good side.

Why Niasse? I'm not sure. I believe he says his work ethic is a major strength and if so I would have expected more from him in terms of closing down. I kind of see the reason but in no way was it delivered.

Andy #22

Have a beer, fella.

Gary Carter
28 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:03:24
How dear dear god can anyone continue to defend Martinez? It's not just the last few games, it's not just this season, it's two whole seasons – not counting his time at Wigan that he's been unable to manage the defensive side of the Premier League.

It's not luck, it's not individual players, it's not referees, his tactics, mentality, lack of discipline, bizarre team choices, bizarre substitutions and footballing philosophy have and do not work in the premier league!!!

We very very rarely control a game even when we win. They switched to the commentator on sky when we were 2-0 up and one man down and his first words were "it's open end to end stuff here at Goodison". That is not how you win games in the premier league especially when you're a man down.

He is naïve at best which at our level and after so long managing in the premiere is unacceptable and at worst he is stubborn, arrogant and down right fucking stupid to continue having us play this way.

Whichever it is, if we want to achieve anything he has to go and I pray it's as soon as possible because he is fucking hopeless as a Premier League manager !!!

Helen Mallon
29 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:03:36


Mike Galley
30 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:04:16
Personally, I'm amazed, dumbfounded, astonished or whatever adjective that you would like to use. I'm in the Railway Inn in Kirkby, it's 20:05 and this fraud still hasn't resigned!!!
Gary Carter
31 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:06:27
Phil Williams, well said!!! Your right, Kone wouldn't have left us with 10 men for 55 minutes...

He would have left us with 10 men for however long he was on the pitch because he's just as useless as Martinez and the rest of the Wigan relegation crew!!!

John Atkins
32 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:16:10

Like I said it's not just today's game but too many times this season he's got it totally wrong, including his stubbornness over Tim Howard.

He's clueless and that's not a biased opinion but the opinion of many many Blues who have witnessed the ups and downs of our beloved club for decades – me included.

But he is a one-off and this season is one of the most frustrating I can remember; if he is allowed to stay, it is with certainty we would follow Wigan into the Championship

Okay, he got it right today for 75 minutes – if the game was for only 75 minutes then this season I reckon we'd be in the top 4!

Phil Williams
33 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:16:23
Jim #23

Fancy a pint one day to chew the fat? I could do with talking positives rather than negatives for a change.

Andy Crooks
34 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:19:41
Phil, you know what, I think I will. Sound advice.
Phil Williams
35 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:23:56

Fair point really. Cannot disagree with the Howard comment at all, and the 75 min top 4 is an interesting one for the statos to look at. I think he is nearly there though. Great signings and in all honesty a nearly season.

See my thoughts in "The missing link" on this site. I honestly believe we will be top 4 next season, and I said that before the investment.

I'm now off to take my medication!!

Ken Reece
36 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:42:41
Phil (#18) – playing Kone is like playing with 10 men.
Roger Helm
37 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:58:11
Martinez has had three years and money to spend and has taken us from regular top six, occasional top four, down to the bottom half of the table.

Next season will be a genuine relegation scrap. How much more evidence do the board need to see that he is not good enough for Everton FC?

Craig Mills
38 Posted 05/03/2016 at 20:58:44
I want someone to ask some serious questions to our players, manager or owner. I want to know why they think we have the worst goals against in the Premier League at home? 26 conceded is 3 more than cannon fodder Villa. Why we have only won 7 games last season and a pathetic 4 from 15 so far this season......

I'm not surprised they are reducing season ticket prices on this form.

Craig Mills
39 Posted 05/03/2016 at 21:00:35
Well said, Rodger, we are a sinking ship with Martinez at the helm.

STATS don't lie!!!

Joe Clitherow
40 Posted 05/03/2016 at 21:07:34
This is not a nearly season, that's how this fraud STILL has some people fooled.

This is a not-fucking-anywhere season, as was last one. As will the next one be under this clown and the incompetents he has brought with him, steadily slipping down the league.

James Marshall
41 Posted 05/03/2016 at 21:13:48
Here's a few stats for you. Goals for/against per 15 minutes this season, plus our 1st half/2nd half for/against (apologies if the formatting goes to shit when I submit this):

0-15m 16-30 31-45 46-60 61-75 76-90 1st half 2nd half
4 - 2 13 - 6 9 - 9 8 - 4 4 - 5 13 - 13 26 - 17 25 - 22

Now knowing Bobby like we do, I would suggest he thinks these are good stats, regardless of the outcome of games.

Les Martin
42 Posted 05/03/2016 at 21:43:22
More excuses.

No need to cover for Martinez, Jags. It's his responsibility.
Brian Mahoney
43 Posted 05/03/2016 at 21:55:48
Tell yer what, Jags, why don't you grow a pair? One of your teamates are about to be sent off, Noble is all over the referee to get him off but were are you? Just standing there letting it happen.

You're a great player and commanding but as a captain absolutely useless. Would Terry, Gerrard etc let anything go without a fight?
Les Netherwood
44 Posted 05/03/2016 at 22:27:11
Another pile of crap. They cannot defend corners or free kicks and the biggest problem is Jagieleka gets beaten in the air by everybody..he is rubbish in the box and always has been. Why bring back Stones? we have done so well at the back without him..he was poor today and got hooked.

Martinez has to be on borrowed time, he has no idea and his substitutions are nonsense...get shut of him before he does a Wigan on us!!
Jim Hardin
45 Posted 05/03/2016 at 22:29:11
Phil and John,

You are kidding right? How is Howard the problem? If he were the problem we wouldn't have lost a two goal lead today, wouldn't have given up a clean sheet to Aston Villa, and wouldn't have been beaten by a header by West Brom. I have stayed away from the Howard comments waiting for Everton to play better teams so that some without blinders on could see that it doesn't matter who the keeper is because the defense is woeful. Sure, against Newcastle and Aston Villa we won but we did that with Howard in goal too. They are crap teams.

Howard is not in goal but we continue to leak soft goals and today blew a two goal lead. It is because the same things are still happening. Crosses being allowed, being outjumped, losing men we should be marking, and standing around doing nothing inside the box. I do not rate Robles, however I have not criticized him due to the fact that it doesn't matter who is in goal. The goals conceded are due to the manager not knowing how to coach or not caring enough how to coach defense.

Gary Carter
46 Posted 05/03/2016 at 22:30:56
Phil Williams, I'm afraid you are as delusional as Martinez. Nearly there? Yes, he's nearly there, he's nearly made us as shit as the Wigan side he got relegated despite having a top six squad!
Gavin Johnson
47 Posted 05/03/2016 at 22:41:44

So are you trying to say you've been pretty non-committal about Tim Howard since he was dropped, and you wanted to watch us play better teams so you could then give an expert appraisal of Joel Robles?!

I must have missed something because nearly every post I've read of yours has had Tim Howard popping up somewhere in it since he was dropped.

Jim Hardin
48 Posted 05/03/2016 at 23:17:59
No, that would be incorrect Gavin. The point is that your post seemed to indicate it was RM sticking with Howard too long that was the problem and the cause of today's loss. If that was the problem then you seem to indicate Howard is still to blame for a loss in a game he didn't even play in. that is nonsense. If you blame Howard and not the defenders or the philosophy of the coach for the team's poor form in the games he played in then with his being on the bench the same things would not keep happening but yet they are.

I have merely tried to point out that it is the lack of a solid defense in front of the keeper. It doesn't matter who the keeper is as he isn't the problem. If it was Martinez being stubborn and sticking to Howard too long that explained the poor form then changing just that one player should have made the difference. Did it versus West Brom or today?

No, it is the manager stubbornly sticking with his lack of any idea about proper defending or his idea that defending doesn't matter that is the problem. I understand that you cannot seem to accept this simple proposition. Fix the defense and then evaluate the keeper because otherwise anyone in the goal won't be able to stop the goals from coming in.

I don't want Howard back in goal. Ingrates and bumpkins will continue to deride him and improperly make him the scapegoat. I prefer Robles because many of you can't criticize him or gasp, you would be wrong about TIm. I enjoy the discomfort it must cause to some of you. Glad it doesn't stop you from posting about Howard being favored by RM though Gavin. Carry on!

Gavin Johnson
49 Posted 05/03/2016 at 23:30:12
Calling people bumpkins and ungrateful isn't good form just because they don't rate Tim Howard, Jim.

I don't think anyone attributes Tim Howard as the sole problem of our defensive woes. All people can go on is results and we've kept more clean sheets when Joel as had a run in the side. He also comes off his line, distributes the ball better. Isn't afraid of physical contact and doesn't jump like a Starfish.

Let's hope next season we have a keeper who's better than either of them and a manager who is more defensively aware.

Tony Hill
50 Posted 05/03/2016 at 23:44:43
Who gives a toss about Tim Howard in the context of today? He's now entirely irrelevant. Let's concentrate on getting this manager out of the club pronto. I will not be renewing my season ticket if he remains and I urge others to follow suit. Fans have to show through action that the present situation cannot be allowed to continue.

For once, we need to show some unified courage as supporters and let the owners know that this ongoing shambles has to end.

David Connor
51 Posted 05/03/2016 at 00:02:14
We know players stick up for their team mates but I would honestly love to hear that one of them knocked the fuck out of Mirallas after the match because that's what he fucking needs to be put in his place. The little prick has hopefully let us down for the last time.

Anyone willing to take him would be welcome in my book. Even on a free. Just get rid ASAP. He has cost us big time. AGAIN. He doesn't deserve to wear our badge on his chest. What a fucking disgrace this man is.

Phil Williams
52 Posted 06/03/2016 at 01:10:47
#46 Gary

Hi, delusional Phil is back.

What is a top 6 squad?

Surely it is one that finishes in the top 6. We will not do that this year, so perhaps we are currently a top 12, 11, 10, 9 or 8 squad. Mark my words, we WILL finish top 4 next season.

Seriously, Martinez will prove to be an Everton legend. Anyone remember the "Sack Kendall" days of 1983 and early 1984? Just thought I'd say it.

Gavin Johnson
53 Posted 06/03/2016 at 01:38:30

Nobody cares about Howard now except his fan boy, Jim.

Jim, I've just read your post again #48 and the last paragraph reads like you're saying you want Robles to fail so you can be vindicated. It's a good job Darren Hind's not read it or else he'd be saying you were a Tim Howard fan first an an Everton supporter 2nd.

Joe Clitherow
54 Posted 06/03/2016 at 01:40:52
Phil W

I remember those days very well:

1. Expectations for Everton were massively more than they have dwindled to over the past 25 years;

2. Howard inherited a team that finished (I think) 15th and took it to 7th (I think) first year;

3. Howard's team looked progressively more solid, Martinez has us in increasing disarray and dropping down the league year on year, exactly as he relegated Wigan;

4. Howard knew you have to build from the back and make teams solid and hard to beat, Martinez is a fucking idiot. Everton legend FFS

To imply, based on superficial similarities of fans discomfort, that Martinez is somehow in the same bind and in the same league as Kendall is frankly insulting to the memory of the great man, and incidentally to me.

Top 4? Sorry, mate, but yes 'delusional' is the right word. There is nothing you have seen that warrants that statement because there is nothing there – you only think there is.

Dennis Ng
55 Posted 06/03/2016 at 01:50:06
LOL the guy took us to 5th once and is treated the same way as Kendall?

There are a few things to consider:
1) Our manager is not good enough
2) Out team is not good enough

Since many of our players are international players, barring the unlikely circumstance that the national teams are managed with bad coaches, I'm going to guess #2 is less of the problem and #1 is the problem.

I believe we can hit top 4 (heck Leicester was bottom this time last year), but only if that manager is someone else, someone with experience leading less successful teams to such heights and then staying there. We have quality but not a winning mentality. The way we play with fire (letting WH pound us with those crosses) showed how inflexible we are in dealing with our opposition. That is not a winning mentality.

Paul Ferry
56 Posted 06/03/2016 at 02:37:53
Can I just push the manager to one side for a minute or two (not because he does not deserve criticism today, or any other day, even though he got everything right up until Lennon asking to come off – not bringing Barry on but Niasse was in my view a massive mistake).

Jags. You are the fecking skipper for feck's sake. You, too, like Martinez, point fingers at Lukaku who, I'm sorry, was terrific today apart from the blind-bleedingly obvious.

Jags, your defence that you are supposed to marshal in precisely such tight situations as we found ourselves in at 78 mins today, hardly helped us to win the game. Did it, really?

I'm sorry. You are a skipper and in the middle of the defence and Martinez is standing looking on from the sidelines. YOU not Martinez as this particular point is who the players should be looking to for leadership.

You have failed many times to show that leadership and most galling of all – perhaps – is your absence or softness when you need to be barking in the ref's ear, making a case, making a point, getting us known as a team that contests decisions.

You are no Dave Watson.

Like Martinez for the 2nd sub (the 1st was brill so stop saying subs in plural to have a pop people) you – Jags – are to blame for this latest late defeat. Late defeats – when the gaffer is standing at the side – are frequently down to poor and sloppy marshalling ON THE PITCH (at some point, for feck's sake, we have to point fingers at players) and that is your primary responsibility.

I'm not letting Martinez off the hook here and I think, without the embarrassing if not somewhat unthinking vitriol we see on the Live Forum, that Martinez will not survive this new investment summer (even with a cup win).

But we will not get to where we need to be with Jags as skipper. Jags, too, lost us that game today.

But make no mistake, we were magnificent today in all departments – Mirallas excepted – until the Lennon sub.

I, actually, feel optimistic about next season, even if Martinez is in charge.

Anthony Dwyer
57 Posted 06/03/2016 at 02:49:29
I love Jags, but simply put, fuck off!

We are shit, we have been shit all season, we have been shit for 2 full seasons.

Only person to blame is Martinez.

I can't be bothered telling anyone the changes that were needed, but come on, how many times is Martinez going to get it wrong.

Jim Hardin
58 Posted 06/03/2016 at 03:51:51

Of course you would try to read it that way. That way you can keep on wallowing in your own arrogance and ignorance. Please see all of my posts the last 18 months. I don't want Robles to fail. I don't rate him but he is between the sticks and the current try at #1.

However, the reasons for Howard being blamed will be attributed to Robles. I already saw it on the comments on the Live Forum with him being blamed for one of the goals, unless in England "For FFS Robles" means something different than over here. The point is that you especially with your "Tim pissed in my Wheaties" approach refused to see what was obvious. That RM at Wigan and at Everton fails to require a defense.

You and others took every chance to claim Tim Howard was off form., past it, trash, etc. when maybe he is and maybe he isn't. The point is how can you tell when the defense is so bad? My point was if things didn't change with the addition of Robles then maybe, just maybe, it wasn't the GK but the manager and his disregard for defending who are to blame. See how simple that is Gavin?

For your info Baines is and probably always will be my favorite Everton player, not Howard. He isn't my favorite GK anywhere. But to see him scapegoated by you and others for things not his fault pissed me off. I don't pretend to speak for offensive players as I am a GK coach and player. I will leave it to others to defend Barkley and Lukaku, both of whom I rate highly.

Go take a look at yourself in the mirror Gavin and ask yourself if maybe your dislike of Howard stems from something other than his goalkeeping ability on this team that cannot and will not defend? Perhaps it is his ability to grow a beard that you are jealous of? On second thought, I don't care so carry on Gavin, but know this, I would never root or wish for Everton to lose, even if you were in goal.

Zahir Jaffer
59 Posted 06/03/2016 at 04:02:33
Goalies: Goalies are probably the most underrated players on the field. Arsenal would have won a few titles this past decade of they had a world class goalie. Let's be honest, the only reason arsenal's up there is because of Cech. Same goes with Loris at Spurs. Don't know about Schmeichel, but they seem to have no problem winning 1-0.

Captains are even more important than the man between the sticks. A leader leads by example and we've all seen jags influence as captain on the field. Man city look a different side defensively with Kompany and he was Bought for £4m. Besic should be captain but clubs seem to prefer to hand the band to homegrown talent.

Managers: why dwell on this subject, we need a tactical genius, not an arrogant penis running the show. I like his audacity, but he just doesn't have that knack for knowing how to win. Some people are born with it and Martinez, certainly is not. He needs to go become a youth coach and fill the little kids with positivity and optimism and all that other load of bullshit that comes out of his mouth. We're not as gullible as toddlers and it's really irritating that he can never address when he's at fault.

Conditioning : is there booze in those Gatorade bottles? How the fuck do top quality players in the biggest league in the world start collapsing after 60 minutes? Are they trying to build their stamina up to Ossie's? Or Do they train at his fitness level and call it a day? This is humiliating. When our stamina goes our mind starts to go astray; It's Harder to make decisions and concentrate.

Ruthlessness: I never thought I'd see the day where teams actually enjoyed coming to Goodison. How much more embarrassing for the fans, the players, the managers, and the owners, could this possibly get. We don't instill fear into the opponents when they walk through that tunnel, we give them hope. We're overly friendly, yeah our league is over but with that lazy childish mindset we might as well play all our youths. I've seen a little bit of feistiness but not enough to make a difference. We love to sit back when we're winning and every fucking time the opposition has scored or been unlucky not to. These guys play like how I did in high school: first to 5 goals wins. Except we rarely score 5 and end up shutting off after 2. 90 minutes, make it 95. That's what they should be trained to play for. I was always told never look at the scoreboard, our players play according to the scoreboard. What a pity.

Also wanted to add I love you all, your all very funny, expressive and manage to lighten up my day with your posts. Even after such an abysmal display it did get slightly better thanks to you all. Cheers.

Gavin Johnson
61 Posted 06/03/2016 at 04:47:02
Oh dear...
Craig Mills
62 Posted 06/03/2016 at 07:52:47
The last 5 goals conceded have all come from crosses into the box, 3 today, 1 at Villa and 1 against West Brom.

FFS, Jags, blaming it on a penalty miss when we were 2 up with 13mins to go is fucking tongue in cheek stuff. Why not take a look at your department, we are joint top scorers in the Premier League but we still can't seem to put our finger on what the problem is why we are doing so crap – how about WE CAN'T DEFEND.

Mike Green
63 Posted 06/03/2016 at 08:01:14
Well, there's part of the problem.

Phil Jagielka.

Nice bloke, above average defender, half decent in nets.


Of a 138-year-old, Premier League football club?

No chance!

Credit to the lads for getting us in front despite that prick Mirallas but to lose in the last 10 minutes AGAIN is down to leadership and organisation, of which we've got NONE.

Martinez Out.

As for Mirallas, I'd never play him again. What a knob.

Laurie Hartley
64 Posted 06/03/2016 at 08:42:24
John # 21 – "if we had Claudio Ranieri in charge we'd be top of the league right now!" – only if he brought Robert Huth and Wes Morgan with him.
Terry McLavey
65 Posted 06/03/2016 at 08:44:35
Phil Jagielka: Please spare us the politician bullshit – you are a footballer!

How can absolutely thousands of fans recognise suicidal substitutions being the problem and you don't?

Roberto's family watching an Everton parade "Look – everybody's out of step except our Roberto."

As I posted in another thread, fall on your sword, Roberto, do the decent thing... but I doubt you will!

Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 06/03/2016 at 08:54:00
You're forgetting the keeper Laurie, the most important player on the pitch.
Rob Hooton
67 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:05:51
Jim is absolutely right, even if we had Neur in goal we'd be crap at defending in the air and some would say how rubbish the goalie is!

Didn't RM have a terrible home record and better away record at Wigan too? I was a (poor) Sunday league centre half and our coach would have been spitting feathers if we let so many crosses into the box knowing I was defending them! Shambolic yet again

Laurie Hartley
68 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:22:10
Tony (#66) - I didn't really want to reignite the goalkeeper debate but Sshmeichel would be a bonus.

After yesterday's debacle I keep having recurring flashbacks of a derby game at Anfield a few seasons ago which we drew.

We were under aerial bombardment from the Reds who just kept pumping balls into our box – and Stubbsy just kept heading them back out.

It was a thing of beauty to behold – if you like that sort of thing.

Neil Gribbin
69 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:25:42
Martinez out. Now. The man is a deluded clown. He is ruining is.
Kieran Carr
70 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:34:10
Like his manager showed little real leadership. As captain allowed the team to camp in the penalty box rather than push out and close down. If Lennon needed to come off why not bring Barry out to protect back four.

Hindsight is a great thing I know but we have little leadership if any on the pitch or off at the moment and our Captain & Manager both seem to have their heads buried to it all.

Denis Richardson
71 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:35:54
My real regret yesterday was not taking the 4/1 WHU away win odds being offered. Was so obvious we'd find a way to lose, again.

As for the league, I posted back in December that we can forget it and I stick to my prediction of 11th come May. At least people will finally stop talking about Europe, was getting a bit embarrassing to be honest.

Some people saying we'll be top 4 next year, didn't we hear that a year ago? The manager has plain said he does not believe in closing a game out so basically the opposition still have a shout right to the end. As long as we have that mentality, we will never grind out results, which is something good teams need to be able to do.

Won't bother going into details on the game, simple fact is we've lost 7 home games in the league now, out of 15. Bad luck, refs, red cards, missed pens... we've had pretty much every excuse under the sun but some people can't see what's in front of them. The team just cannot defend for 90 mins. Conceded 50-odd goals last season and we're on course to beat that this season.

The top teams of the past used to have defenders that would be gutted whenever they didn't keep a clean sheet, even if they won the game. I see absolutely no sign of that kind of steel in this side. Every time the ball gets in our third, the whole crowd gets nervous. If the fans feel that, what must the players be feeling?

So Chelsea in the cup next then the Arse at home, looks like the season will be over come Easter, de ja vu.

Top 4 next season... mmmm, April 1st is till a few weeks off.

Steve Brown
72 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:38:41
The cup competitions have enabled RM to divert attention from the massive under-performance of this squad. Some of the capitulations this season have been shameful!

There are also technical and tactical issues with how this team is set up that have been glaring for 18 months, but RM is too incompetent, stubborn or dumb to address them. We over-commit the full-backs in attack, always play out of defence even when it's not in, cannot defend crosses or corners and always get too stretched. The balance of this team is all wrong.

We have a golden opportunity with a decent young squad and hopefully significant investment. How many fans trust RM to make the most of that? He is an over-promoted academy boss who got his team relegated before he joined us. He must not be manager next season.

Mike Green
73 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:42:05
Denis – so true. I was astounded that Betfair had them at 9/2 and us at 8/13 yesterday. Had it been against anyone else I would've lumped on. Talk about value...!
Tony Abrahams
74 Posted 06/03/2016 at 09:59:37
Steven, I want to win the cup, but it shouldn't overlook the league though. I'm like Dennis, I gave up on the league, after Leicester at home, this season.

It was the last match before Xmas, so I got a lot longer this season than last, because Sunderland away, which was early November was when I gave up the previous season!

Have a feeling we could get our revenge against The Hammers in the cup, but we have got to beat Chelsea to do that. Lose next week and all those saying Martinez, is safe will surely be wrong.

The reason being, is that too many people are fed up, so I think you might see a crowd of under 28,000, if Everton, are left with nothing left to play for after next week.

How many of us really enjoy going to Goodison at the minute?

George McKane
75 Posted 06/03/2016 at 10:06:31
Jagielka obviously doesn't mention his complete lack of any form of Leadership yesterday, his woeful part in the goals, and his seemingly disinterest in challenging anyone in any form of authority.

Manager / referee / player – for me he was totally ineffectual yesterday – I want a LEADER on the pitch. We do not have one. Certainly not Jagielka.

Roberto Ball
76 Posted 06/03/2016 at 10:26:05
One word sums it all up: DISGRACEFUL!!!

As for Martinez... why don't you just go now? Bill, please, come on, you love EFC like we do... Put Joe Royle in charge till end of season.

To the new owners, please line up a new manager now... Koemam, Hiddink, even Moyes

To the players (Aaron Lennon excluded) – You lot are a DISGRACE!!!

Kevin Elliott
77 Posted 06/03/2016 at 11:42:02
Totally pissed off with what is becoming a recurring theme. Martinez is taking us nowhere fast and needs to go.

Regarding the goalkeeping debate, there is an old saying in football. "A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence".

Anto Byrne
78 Posted 06/03/2016 at 12:35:11
Nice enough bloke but hardly a leader on the pitch. In fairness to Mirallas, l thought the first booking only warranted a warning and the second booking was late without being malicious.

Overall the ref was pretty poor. It was a great game of football, credit to WHU for the way they kept going and literally scored from 3 chances after being under the pump for most of the game.

We had the chances to bury them not withstanding a very poor penalty. Need a new manager to instill professionalism at all levels. I can't see it with RM.

Don Alexander
79 Posted 06/03/2016 at 13:08:54
Apart from all the other reasons voiced on this thread and others regarding the Incredible One's many failings I can't get my head round why we are visibly less fit than most other teams. I accept players aren't robots but if, with a big chunk of the match remaining, Aaron and Jimmy Mac were truly knackered yesterday, why is that? Why is Delboy usually blowing for tugs early in the second half? Why do Rom and Ross make next to no effort even to properly chase and harry, never mind actually tackle God forbid, when the ball is lost? And, thanks to the goals conceded chart input by James Marshall (and thanks by the way James), why do we concede shed loads of goals the longer the second halves go on?

Of course some players said the training regime eased a lot when the I.O. took over three years, but what do they care? The new boss is a soft touch, work gets a whole lot easier, pay's the same, happy days!

Other clubs won't tolerate this. Amongst most other managers Pochettino and Ranieri make their players work their bollocks off for the entire match (and Klopp's behaving this way too). Vermaelin, the ex-Arse lad now at Barca, says he can't believe the work demanded by their manager in training because it's gigantic, for everyone including their phenomenal stars. The prick we have worships at Barca's altar but the concrete needed to construct it has gone completely unnoticed by him.

That's totally unacceptable. We needed him gone ages ago.

Colin Glassar
80 Posted 06/03/2016 at 13:23:16
Another one who needs to keep his trap shut and do his talking on the pitch. I think Jags is a great player but seriously lacking in leadership skills. In fact, he perfectly reflects his manager, ie, nice guys but not awe inspiring.
Dan Parker
81 Posted 06/03/2016 at 13:40:50
West Brom scored one goal against us and parked the bus, came away with three points. Could we learn to the same in these situations please instead of describing what happened and using it as an excuse.
Brent Stephens
82 Posted 06/03/2016 at 15:53:04
Don #79 "if, with a big chunk of the match remaining, Aaron and Jimmy Mac were truly knackered yesterday, why is that? .. Why do Rom and Ross make next to no effort even to properly chase and harry, never mind actually tackle God forbid, when the ball is lost?"

Yesterday, they were knackered because they had to cover for (a) the loss of Mirallas and (b) the total absence of any meaningful chasing by Ross.

Craig Mills
83 Posted 06/03/2016 at 15:53:53
That's both Jags and Martinez saying the game turned on the penalty miss, does anyone want to remind them we were acually winning 2-0 after he missed, that's 2 fucking goals infront with less than 15 minutes to play. All we had to do was see it out..........unbelievable.
Brent Stephens
85 Posted 06/03/2016 at 15:58:44
Craig "That's both Jags and Martinez saying the game turned on the penalty miss."

Yes, great team spirit that is, to implicitly blame Lukaku for the loss. Rom must be spitting chips. That's how we hold onto him after this season? Agree, with what you say, Craig.

Don Alexander
86 Posted 06/03/2016 at 16:13:14
Fair point Brent. Those two do put a good shift in regardless of their form, and I respect that. My point is that on top of everything else I've long since stopped believing in Martinez' explanations for his ruinous substitutions.
Tony Rutherford
87 Posted 06/03/2016 at 16:13:37
Don (#79). That has been my rant all year as well! Even when we have 11 men on the pitch, we don't put enough pressure on the ball because we don't look as fit as the other teams.

The blue room a few weeks ago said exactly the same thing about Spurs and Bournemouth and how they run through brick walls to pressure the ball including the centre-forwards.

But Martinez doesn't expect it of his star players!

Too many things obvious to us fans are simply not registering with Roberto. 3 years into his philosophy and we've only gone backwards.

He can certainly spot a player..... But when he's got them he hasn't got a clue what to do with them.

Nice bloke but he could take us down if he's left to continue with his philosophy!

Craig Mills
88 Posted 06/03/2016 at 19:17:29
Good point Brent about team spirit, Lukaku must be fuming being singled out by both captain and manager. He might want to remind them we nearly the top scorers in the league, only 1 and 2 goals behind Leicester and Man City – he is clearly fulfilling his roll within the squad far better than anyone else could ever say they are......
Barry Jones
89 Posted 06/03/2016 at 21:27:36

I have to agree with you. Week after week I see both Rom and Ross strolling around once we have lost possession. It is unacceptable in today's game at the top level. Look at Klopp or Pochettino's philosophies. They demand that ALL of their players work their socks off at all times to retrieve the ball. Ross may have the "leg break" on his mind, but he can at least harry and close people down. Why is this never addressed?

What does our defensive coach do? Defense starts with the forwards (but apparently not in our case – Lennon and Mirallas excepted). He doesn't appear to be working on set pieces either so what exactly is his utility?

Harold Matthews
90 Posted 06/03/2016 at 22:01:43
Yes, this was the season we turned down offers for key players because we were going for everything.
Brent Stephens
91 Posted 06/03/2016 at 22:17:12
Don #76 - point taken, Don.
Phillip Warrington
93 Posted 07/03/2016 at 02:09:44
I cannot believe Everton have gone from a team of fighters who never gave up under Moyes, to a team now who as soon as they are put under pressure fold without any fight.

If this keeps up we will end up like Aston Villa where new owners will look to cut their losses because the team is going nowhere. For this reason there have to be changes.
Brian Porter
94 Posted 07/03/2016 at 06:53:34
Everyone thought we could (and should have) beaten WBA at home, but look what happened. Now, three games down the line, they have leap-frogged us and stand above us in the table, churning out results,as we churn out defeats.

We have no leadership on the pitch, Jags is a nice guy but not really captain material, and when Mirallas was about to be sent off the only player who went to speak to the ref was Ross, who was quickly shooed away. With no leadership on the pitch and even less off it, is it any surprise we are in such a mess.

Supporters who were close to the dugout on Saturday could apparently hear the players questioning the subbing of Niasse for Lennon, scratching their heads wondering what was going on. That one small point tells me all is not well in the dressing room and that may be where some of our problems lie. If the players themselves can't understand Martinez's mindset but are afraid to openly question his management we are left with a situation where potentially we have a group of players unable to understand or accept what is going on but who are perhaps too afraid to speak out directly for fear of ending up being frozen out a la Distin.

It also seems Martinez's assistant, Jones, has a massive say in the substitutions and if true is another indictment against the manager who should have his finger on the pulse of the game and tell Jones,where to get off if his substitutions are not right for the situation. It brings into question just who is in charge of the appalling in-game management we are seeing this (and last) season.

The more we see, the more our beloved Everton begin to resemble Wigan during the death throes of Martinez's time there. RM cannot blame Kev's sending off, or Rom's (appalling) penalty miss. Even after that we were still 2-0 up with just over ten minutes left. A Sunday League park side would know how to cling on for those few minutes I'm sure but our under-coached team of multi-millionaires carried on blindly following an inept manager's 'philosophy' instead of closing out the game by any means,at their disposal.

Martinez (or Jones) then committed tactics suicide by taking Lennon off for Niasse who had no idea,what to do when he came on. I'm sure Lennon would have preferred to carry on, as he was enjoying himself terrorising the West Ham defence. At worst, Del Boy could have been sent on with instructions to care on where Lennon left off but instead, the Niasse substitution simply left our left flank totally exposed,and West Ham exploited it perfectly.

Barry was sent on too late and Rom taken off in a panic move to try to hold on to a point. Perhaps if Barry had been introduced fifteen minutes sooner in response to West Ham's substitutions we might have held on to the win, but as usual RM,has no idea how to react to the opposition's game changing substitutions even though it was obvious they were sending in fresh attacking players to put pressure on our defence. Instead, he sent on another forward! The man is a total liability and must be replaced as soon as possible if we are to have any hope of moving forward.
Andrew James
96 Posted 07/03/2016 at 22:54:59
Jags lamenting the penalty miss is understandable because he was central to keeping them out the other end while the person who missed it was up the other end getting a breather.

What he doesn't mention is the sub. He really should but he cannot. That would be open rebellion.

He's been with us since 2007 as have Baines and Osman much longer so I wish these senior players would tell it like it is.

Brent Stephens
97 Posted 07/03/2016 at 22:57:56
This is shameful. For Jags to not have a go at the manager and his substitution is understandable but to throw the light on a team-mate who misses a penalty is disgraceful – and I've got a lot of time for Jags normally.
Andrew James
98 Posted 07/03/2016 at 23:03:00
Brent - it was a poor penalty

When you're the captain of a side working like crazy to keep the opposition out and your front men have a spot kick to put away to remove the pressure and miss it, I can see why he mentions it.

But he should have referenced the sub.

Brent Stephens
99 Posted 07/03/2016 at 23:04:48
Sorry, I realise I'm in effect repeating an earlier post. Shows how annoyed I am. This is interesting because normally I've been angry in the immediate aftermath of a cock-up and then calmed down. This time I was numb after the match and now angrier by the day. And it's the feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness as well.
Andrew James
100 Posted 07/03/2016 at 23:08:42
Brent, I'm a London Everton fan so I have had to put up with Spurs fans all day.

Spurs fans with short memories naturally.

Fortunately the Hammers fans are more humble!

Brent Stephens
101 Posted 07/03/2016 at 23:20:05
Andrew, yes, I've always had a soft spot for the West Ham club and fans.
Andrew James
102 Posted 07/03/2016 at 23:37:13
Brent if you'd listened to Spurs fans they've been regularly winning trophies...one of them went:

"We've won the league twice...well three times..."

WTF? They have won it twice. We've won the league 9 times...well 9 times...it's a simple answer.

Jamie Crowley
103 Posted 07/03/2016 at 23:46:25
Paul Ferry at 56 -

Thank God someone is pointing out that up and until the Lennon substitution Roberto got everything beautifully spot on. His subs, change of shape, moving Lennon up by Rom, everything. It was in-game adjustments, a certifiable "Plan B" exemplified by Roberto.

Until that sub...

I will state in the interests of full disclosure, I said on the Live Forum I actually thought the Niasse for Lennon substitution at the time was a good one. Roberto had moved Lennon up top by Rom and he had ran, ran some more, then ran again. He had to be out of gas and I think fresh legs with an eager new recruit were perfect for that like-for-like substitution positionally and at that point in the game.

Turns out I, and Roberto, were massively, massively wrong. One of the reasons I cheer from the barstool and don't manage a football club...

But what "happy-go-lucky-chat-away-yuk-it-up-in-the-tunnel" Jags is missing here, while blaming another player (!!!!!), is that as captain and the senior presence in the back line: he is as responsible for this ridiculous loss as anyone.

Singling out Rom for missing the penalty is frankly disgusting in the extreme. Here's a novel fucking idea Phil Jagielka - get in the ear of anyone allowing a cross to come in uncontested and maybe, just maybe, stand up and take responsibility for the pathetic attempts by yourself to head the ball out of danger when said cross comes into the box.

Oh... and I hope someone just cold-clocks Kevin Mirallas! At 11 men we win that game blindfolded!

Roberto - assuming he has a job - needs to put the big boy pants on and never play Mirallas again and ship him out immediately. I love watching the guy play, but he's not a team player. He's self-absorbed in the extreme - the footballing equivalent of Donald Trump.

And Jags is Neville Chamberlain - grow a sack and go to war already!

"Oh look, a cross into my area... isn't that pretty?"

Still not over this one...

Roman Sidey
104 Posted 08/03/2016 at 00:17:11
Probably been said, but Jags should never have been given the captaincy. He's a coward and has very little ability in public speaking as far as I've seen from his pressers.

Also probably already mentioned, but did anyone see the tunnel before the WBA-Man Utd match? Two captains, Fletcher and Carrick, with a shitload more history than Jagielka and Noble, standing up straight, concentrating, and not having a laugh or even acknowledging each other. That is the decorum we should be getting from the captain of Everton FC.

Patrick Murphy
105 Posted 08/03/2016 at 00:38:42
Roman (104) That's a bit harsh isn't it calling Jags a coward, he may not be everybody's favourite and I wouldn't be upset if some other person at the club was the Captain, however, he has proved over the years beyond doubt that he is a brave player and has often put his body on the line to stop the ball - also what sort of a coward steps up to score the winning penalty at Wembley to put his team in the final?

If there's one aspect of some Evertonians that I would like to see removed completely, it is when they totally besmirch the character of a player(s) who have given their best for the club, even if their best was limited. For a player to be totally dismissed as a 'coward' or gobshite or some other inappropriate name, a player would have to leave the club and join the other lot as did Barmby for example. But to label the likes of Jags, Howard and Neville yes even Neville in such a way is unseemly. It isn't / wasn't their fault that they were selected to Captain the club or that they may have been playing past their prime.

It has been a bad trait of some Evertonians for as long as I have supported the club and it totally undermines all of the 'people's club' and amazingly understanding supporters that most of the clubs fans adhere to, but there are a significant proportion of Evertonians who should have a look in the mirror and ask themselves if their comments are really justified or just plain mean and nasty.

Roman Sidey
106 Posted 08/03/2016 at 01:00:26
Sorry, Patrick, I did mean as a captain he's a coward. I do think he's never regained his form since his '09 injury, but you're right he has put his body on the line defending.

As a captain, I maintain he is and always has been a coward. I cannot remember him ever once getting stuck into a ref during a match and every Everton supporter knows he's overseen plenty of instances when he would have been justified in doing so. I know some supporters dislike the approach of getting stuck into the ref, but very often it is the difference between winning and losing, and I'm sick of seeing Everton accepting defeat the way they have been for far too long.

Mo Barkoli
107 Posted 08/03/2016 at 01:01:47
Blaming Lukaku for the penalty miss is ridiculous. It is not like he is going to score every penalty, sometimes they go in and sometimes they don't.

All the players should be blaming the defenders for every loss this season and previous one. And Roberto should be relieved of his duty right now, any manager who is incapable of making a right sub should not be managing.

Roman Sidey
108 Posted 08/03/2016 at 01:05:19
Also, Patrick, if you've ever been involved in a sporting club, the player certainly does have a say in whether they are made captain or not. If Jags put his hand up for the job, he is delusional too.
Peter Barry
109 Posted 08/03/2016 at 02:53:53
So Jags hope we 'perform in a similar manner' in the Cup game, does he?

So that means another home defeat then, does it???

Peter Barry
111 Posted 08/03/2016 at 05:30:17
Just a word for all the Mirallas bashers and Martinez apologists:

Mirallas was not sent off in any of the previous SEVEN other times that Martinez's Everton meekly surrendered a two-goal lead this season.

Peter Jones
112 Posted 08/03/2016 at 21:32:20
Who pressed the panic button? Kevin Mirallas was not to blame for anything in that game. For the second yellow, point to the officials for the first yellow.

Lukaku was not to blame either, even if he did miss a penalty. Neither were any of the other players to blame. THE MANAGER WAS TO BLAME. THE MANAGER ALONE. And he is a coward for not taking that blame.

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