Martinez: Everton are not under-achieving

by | 29/01/2016  265 Comments  [Jump to last]
Roberto Martinez has rejected the notion that his side is falling short of expectations this season, defiantly insisting that his team getting "very close" to being competitive for the top four.

The manager was asked if Everton are under-achieving this season given the quality of his squad but he flatly disagreed.

"You cannot be underachieving when this team is new," Martinez said. "This team has been formed over the last two-and-a-half years and we are developing something that is going to be very powerful for the future.

"That process is not going to be overnight or straightforward. You need to go through painful experiences to develop the know-how of a winning team.

"In my eyes we have one of the most competitive squads in the league with four or five players with the best potential in Europe and that has been down to a clear strategy.

"I understand expectations and the history and heritage at Everton and I think we are getting very close to getting back to the glory years that we had but it is not going to be easy or pain-free."

Though Everton's form this season has resulted in an inordinate number of draws in which they were largely the better side, a record of just six Premier League wins in 23 and a porous defence that was breached three more times at the Etihad Stadium on Wednesday has many supporters concerned at the club's direction.

Martinez says that he accepts the criticism and shares the fans' frustrations but reiterated his belief that his Toffees side are close to fulfilling their potential.

"As a manager you need to accept that we need to get wins," he continued. "I will never come out with excuses and try to justify lack of wins.

"I am extremely aware of the potential we have in the club and we should be working under the expectation of winning games and titles.

"I feel we are close to getting what the fans deserved but I'll accept any criticism and I'll be the one fronting that because I share their frustrations at a lack of wins.

"But I am the first one who has a strong belief we will be successful at the end of it."  

Reader Comments (265)

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William Cartwright
1 Posted 29/01/2016 at 16:43:44
Attack is the best form of defence, after all... !
Sam Morrison
2 Posted 29/01/2016 at 16:45:07
Read this earlier today in the Guardian. It seems just as silly now.
Russell Smith
3 Posted 29/01/2016 at 16:45:16
Well that's OK then, we are actually brilliant, and 40,000 of us are clearly missing the bigger picture that only RM can see.

He was also the"first one" when Wigan were relegated to say "I am not the right manager to get you promoted" His "strong belief of being successful in the end" must have momentarily deserted him.
Jim Bennings
5 Posted 29/01/2016 at 16:50:06
Well we are certainly not over achieving!!

Attack is the best form of defence providing you can actually outscored the opposition on more occasion than not such as Keegan's mental Newcastle team of the 1990's, but we can't do that.

In our case, it should be:

"Defence is the worst form of destruction."

David Barks
6 Posted 29/01/2016 at 16:54:42
Okay, he should be sacked immediately. The squad is new over two and a half years??? No, the squad is getting worse, defending worse, mental toughness worse, results worse, league position worse.

How can he be allowed to say that Everton sitting 12th in the league at the end of January is not underachieving? He should be sacked immediately and the press conference should simply say that any manager saying "Everton sitting 12th is not underachieving" will no longer be the manager of Everton FC.

Chris Hooson
7 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:01:19
Are you shitting me? This is just too bizarre, even for him.

Taxi for Mr Martinez.....

Ian Robert
8 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:05:10
Guys... I've just got it.... he is the world's greatest comedian!!!

We can now all join in the big belly laugh.

Selby Wells
9 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:06:55
He could of course be acknowledging the squad that he has assembled (with a few exceptions) is not good enough so can't be underachieving!!!!
Tony J Williams
10 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:09:18
Oh, just shut the fuck up and fuck off, Bobby!
Jay Harris
11 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:09:40
What a timely piece of bullshit.

"You need to go through painful experiences"!!!!

Why? What successful team has ever gone through over 2 years of painful experiences? The players' confidence is getting shattered game after game.

No wonder he looked flustered when Kenwright said he had told him he would get us Champions League. He probably thought he would get away with that BS too.

Bob Heyward
12 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:19:56
I've refrained from commenting here for a long while but, my goodness, this view from the Martinez bunker just takes the biscuit!

Sadly, this time last year we kept him – despite it being painfully obvious that he didn't have 'it'.

Now our youngsters are one year older, one year more hyped and one year more ambitious. Come summer, there have to be serious concerns regarding Lukaku, Coleman, Stones, Barkley, Deulofeu and McCarthy, with Mirallas and Funes Mori looking like going, and Pienaar and Kone getting binned.

If we're not lucky, i.e. billionaire takeover, then it looks like the procrastinating 'give him another season and we'll be ace, honest' chickens might be coming home to roost, big time.

That said, I note that some of those who have spent two seasons buying time for this El Clown now appear to be trying to deflect blame onto a lack of leadership from the top. That in my view is a disgraceful attempt to blame what may be – and I hope it is not – a dying, loyal Evertonian, who's like we may very soon come to miss a great deal.

Jermaine Jennings
13 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:24:59
These comments are an utter disgrace!!! We are 12th in league, worst home record, 1 win 10 or 11, and he says we are not underachieving?!?! That in itself is a sackable offence, to be able to talk so much crap and get away with it is just wrong.

The board should issue a statement straight away to say we are underachieving and the players, coaching staff and manager need to grasp that quickly.

RM saying that just promotes disillusioned players who must be thinking, "Is this guy for real, as we should be getting a bollocking." Instead, the players will dread playing on Sunday at Carlisle and at home against Newcastle as they will believe their performances are acceptable.

This has got so bad for me that I cannot even stand to see his face or hear this guy speak anymore, which is making me lose interest in supporting Everton whilst he is in charge; he has taken away my emotion of the team I fucking love with a passion.

Gordon Crawford
14 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:25:03
So, if we are not under achieving, then God help us when we do start under-achieving.

I've heard it all now. This comment doesn't just take the biscuit, it takes the whole packet.

Martin O'Sullivan
15 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:27:32
He continued. "I will never come out with excuses and try to justify lack of wins." – Hahahahahaha!!!

So what exactly are we doing??? Standing still if not under achieving because we certainly aren't achieving!!! What is this clown on, 2½ years of what??? Trying to assemble a squad??? That may not achieve???

Seems to be another excuse. But remember he never makes excuses!!!

David Brocklehurst
16 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:27:39
I think I'm in the minority but I think he is right. A couple of those draws being wins would make such a huge difference.

The margins at this level are so small. Yes, we have drawn too many but we haven't lost too many either. If he can keep the squad and add to it I think he is right that the foundations are there.

There are times, like the first half of Wednesday night, where we looked unplayable but the confidence goes as soon as the other team scores.

[I'm ready to be shot down now...]

Gordon Crawford
17 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:28:18
I actual feel sick that he is in charge of our club. Never thought I would say this, but we could certainly learn a thing or two from that shower across the park. They know how to get shot of shoddy managers.
Dean Edwards
18 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:31:00
Bobby Bullshit strikes again!
Denis Richardson
19 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:31:59
I know we have a few young players but I'd hardly call the team 'new'.

Howard, Baines, Jagielka, Coleman, Pienaar, Osman, Mirallas, Naismith (first half season), Barkley, Oviedo, all been at the club a fair few years.

Barry, Lukaku, McCarthy, Stones, Kone, all well into their third full season at the club.

I make that about 90% of the regular playing squad....

Next excuse?

Jim Bennings
20 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:35:14
The bizarre thing is, we are arse ways up.

His first season should have been this season finishing 4th or 5th with 21 wins and it would have been easier to understand if he'd had two seasons of steady transition after first getting the job but Martinez, like the team itself has gone backwards since 2014.

How can that be when it's arguably a more experienced group than it was that 2013-14 season with Barkley, Stones with many more games under their belt and Lukaku, plus Deulofeu with more experience.

It's you then Roberto, it has to be, if this team finished 5th two years ago why have last season and this so far been allowed to happen??

The players have deteriorated under two more years of baffling leadership from this manager and it looks more like a bunch of strangers now than when Martinez walked through the door nearly three years ago.

Alan Freese
22 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:37:44
What an absolute clown this manager is. Does he think he can blag the fans? It's embarrassing...

So it takes time does it? His first words were "I will get Everton in the Champions League" in the first season.

And so Leicester must've been building a team for decades going on their great form. I am sick of his utter rubbish now.

Tom Magill
23 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:42:07
I've gotten to the point where if we score I'm not even that excited. I know we need another few to have any chance... that's messed up.

Anybody I talk to about us, they think Martinez is great, until I put them right. I think my wee girl (#9) could do a better job.

Alan Bodell
24 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:44:00
Can we organise another flypast but leave Blue Bill out this time, all this is not doing his health any good at all.

Martinez and his endless drivel is driving me into a manic depression.

Ian Riley
25 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:46:47
Everton is "not under achieving." Our manager is in the denial phase of on your last legs. I give in, we all must be wrong. I must make an appointment with the psychologist again.

Sorry, Reberto, I have been imagining our shit defending, giving up leads, and shite second-half performances! Send in the clowns!!

Darryl Ritchie
26 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:46:50
Driving to work, I listen to an American sport talk show. They came out with a great line (I've changed it around a bit);

"When I die, I'd like the Toffees to be my they can let me down, one last time."

Oliver Molloy
27 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:48:37
How long has Pochettino been in charge at Spurs? – less than 2 years. Take a good long hard look at how you should be doing things, Roberto, that's all have to say.

Granted, bad refereeing decisions and bad luck is out of your hands, I'll give you that.

Being thick and ignoring the very obvious short comings in our team is not bad luck, it just shows that change is needed.

I think you have two games to save your arse.

Phil Roberts
28 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:53:58
If we are not underachieving then being in 12th is what he expects or better than what he expects.

No Everton manager has even been allowed to state that 12th is an acceptable position for this club of ours.

Please, someone get this guy to go.

Bob Heyward
29 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:55:10
@ Darryl – That is priceless!

I'll owe you royalties for that line – say ٟ a repeat? You'll be able to retire!

Steve Hogan
30 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:58:12
Sounding more and more like David Brent from 'The Office', except that was an award winning TV comedy, since copied all over the world.

Has Roberto secretly been reading the scripts?

Can't believe a word the man utters anymore, totally deluded

Ian Hollingworth
31 Posted 29/01/2016 at 17:59:37
Shine a light... is there no end to the nonsense spouted from this deluded fool's mouth? He is now an embarrassment and someone at the club has to reign him in. He has to to be made responsible for the team and results.

Please save us from this fool.

Kieran Carr
32 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:01:25
I now understand the problem. RM's understanding of The English language is not as good as first thought. He is asked a question, does not understand it, but feels he can provide an answer with a variety of English words he knows.
Andrew Laird
33 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:02:48
it's funny how Martinez is always harping on about the future, how the players have to learn for the next game and how something special is coming. The trouble is Roberto, it is never today it's always tomorrow with you and it's blatantly a ruse to keep you in a job that you absolutely do not deserve in any professional top league in Europe with your negligent comments about keeping clean sheets and your arrogant and mystifying refusal to "learn" also.
Actually it's not funny and the only people who are laughing are the opposition managers who know they will score a minimum of 2 goals against your moribund philosophy. Have an ounce of credibility and fuck off with your talentless bunch of relegation coaches for the good of our club.
Joe Clitherow
34 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:06:33
What a load of crap. This guy should be immediately sacked with delusional comments like this.

The only way he is not underachieving is because he lowers expectations with every game he is in charge.

Maybe that's it, maybe he is exactly where he knew he would take us when he was appointed (as some of us, including me, also expected and posted on this site) whereas it was only our silly fanbase, used to regular Top 6 challenges, who had higher expectations.

This fella really has no place being in any managerial position higher than a scout, and every single week the facts and statistics become more stark whilst he becomes more delusional.

Read comments from other fans on websites. He is well and truly rumbled and continues to make our formerly Top 6 challenging club a laughing stock.

To steal and paraphrase from Alan Partridge:

"You, Roberto? You couldn't manage"

Ste Traverse
35 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:13:57
The final evidence needed that this bloke has lost the plot....totally.

The sooner this clown is out of our club the better. He's become an embarrassment.

Phil Walling
36 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:14:04
Eighth best payers in the Premier League... so 8th place is par and we will need at least eight more wins to get to that level.Anything lower than that is underachieving.

Does he conveniently forget that he took over a 6th placed team (16 wins), improved it to 5th (21 wins) and then 'progressed' to 11th place (12 wins).

So the truth is that he actually OVERACHIEVED in his first season quite substantially and has gone downhill from there.

Ian Brandes
37 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:17:49
I am not sure about this at al. Does this mean that we are worse than I think we are?

Or is this deluded half-wit preparing us for relegation?

Either way, it must be time for him to go.

Joe Foster
38 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:22:32
Insane in the membrane.
Mark Daley
39 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:32:17
Nurse, he's out of bed again!
James Byrne
40 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:33:00
The scary thing is is that we only get snippets of this man's foolish vision via the media.

Imagine what utter bollocks the players and the Everton staff must listen to on a daily basis.

Please, someone in a senior role at the club, put this man and the fans out of their misery once and for all.

Joe Clitherow
41 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:33:28
What would have been wrong with him saying "Yes we are definitely underachieving with the quality of player we have at the club" (since he relentlessly and ridiculously builds them up: "Barry – greatest ever English player" "Stones – will be the greatest English defender") and then say that "I and my staff are working very hard to correct our underachieving position"?

It would be an attempt from any grounded manager to regain credibility. Compare these comments with the press conference of LVG who was at least realistic.

There are really only four reasons for this drivel that I can think of:

1. He is deluded (clearly true to some degree whatever else);

2. He is so arrogant that he thinks the fans or the board will swallow this rubbish (he may be right to some degree on both points);

3. He has no confidence that he can improve on this and is attempting to manage expectations (and for the Moyes haters, this is about 10 times worse than any "knife to a gunfight" comment that people still hold against OFM);

4. A combination of any or all of the above.

Any one of these reasons are concrete grounds for dismissal in my book.

Frank Crewe
42 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:37:50
Underachieving would be an improvement. We're not achieving at all. Looks like the pressure is starting reach him. How he figures we'll be stronger in the future is beyond me.

This time next season, assuming we're still in the Premier League, Lukaku and Stones will both be gone and probably one or two others as well. How will that make is stronger?

Taxi for Mr Martinez.

Brian Cleveland
43 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:38:31
He is even more deluded than I thought...

I do believe we have a good group of players, I do believe there is potential to do a lot better.... but how can he say we are not underachieving and still banging on about being close to top 4?

We seem to be oh so close on many occasions... but too many occasions to count, which means in actual fact we are nowhere near good enough.

I'm not sure whether he has his head in the sand or the clouds, either way, he can't see what we see at ground level.

God, this is such a frustrating season. It's almost worse than being completely shit all the time!

John Audsley
44 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:39:56
It's just possible Bob may have gone mad.

I would rather have Colonel Kurtz in charge than him.

But he's going knowhere so.....

Stewart Lowe
45 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:41:45
As always with Martinez, politician answers and no honesty. His overuse of sickly power / positive words make me feel queezy every time I listen to an interview. Football is all about the result and the 3 points that go along with it.

I would rather us grind out wins, pick up the points and then work on possession. Martinez, I just don't believe it is acceptable to have 70% possession in games and not win them. To be at home and concede 3, or even 4.

We have never had an honest explanation from Martinez that could give us an honest breakdown as to why we can be Barcelona-esque at the front and Frickley Athletic at the back on a consistent basis. Martinez is forever telling us that we have to be patient, but be patient about what? How long does he expect us to continue to put up with this?

I have read in the media recently that Bill Kenwright is not a well man and his absence at recent games reflects this. I sincerely wish Bill all the very best wishes at this moment but I can almost imagine his ill health being a reason why Martinez has not been sacked already as the club obviously have more important things to worry about.

What if the club is genuinely in the process of being sold and they are leaving the retaining / sacking of Martinez up to its new owners? Why rock the boat now and wait until the sale has gone through?

Martinez has been in very choppy waters for 18 months now and has anyone noticed not once has the club come out in the way all other clubs do and actually stated that Martinez still has the backing of the club? Does that not seem odd?

Geoff Evans
46 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:43:31
When I want to be talked to like an idiot, the wife usually steps in.
Michael Polley
47 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:53:52
Had to laugh when I saw this interview. I've now realised I must be watching a different team from Martinez!!!
Karl Jones
48 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:56:23
The passionless performance against Swansea says everything about the Martinez era for me. You just can't see where the next Premier League win is coming from. Even if we're 2-0 up with 10 minutes to go you wouldn't bank on us winning.

The Newcastle game fills me with trepidation, and despite all the excuses from last season re World Cup fatigue, Uefa League fixtures etc.., things have not improved significantly from last season.

We are heading for the bottom six not the top six. Empty words from a poor manager. Time to go Roberto.

Frank Wade
49 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:58:11
"But I am the first one who has a strong belief we will be successful at the end of it." The one and only Roberto.

Surely the most comical football interview ever. Taxi!

Jim Bennings
50 Posted 29/01/2016 at 18:59:31
We'd probably all respect Roberto a lot more if he answered any difficult question with a straightforward reply, such as..

"We have been hugely let down this season by our performances from which we all, myself even more so must take full responsibility for. I'm sorry for the fans that we have not given them a prouder record at Goodison especially and it's no use me saying we will learn lessons from bad results or bad defending. The only way is to actually IMPROVE so that the fans can acknowledge we are working at getting better."

That would sit a whole lot more comfortably with most supporters than all this bullshit jargon and superlatives we always hear which we are sick of by now.

Geoff Evans
51 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:05:27
Is the man OK?
Nick Page
52 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:06:24
Officially lost it!

You should all email him your comments:

His PA, Sue picks them up. She told me he reads them. Whether that's true or not I have no idea. Good luck

Paul Hewitt
53 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:10:42
He's lost it, he's actually lost it.
Stewart Lowe
54 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:12:46
# Bournemouth came into the premier league spending almost nothing and they are ONLY 4 points below us.
# Watford came into the Premier League with a trigger happy owner who sacked 5 Managers in 10 months before Flores and they are 3 points above us.
# Leicester were bottom for most of last season and with no major money spent they are 1st place and 18 points above us.
# 1 win in the last 10 Premier League games
# 6 wins in our last 23 league games and 3 of those are currently sitting in the bottom 3 of the division.

Final thought which nobody has mention yet: Has anybody else noticed that all 23 league games this season have been what you might call epic watchable battles, certainly for the neutrals? Why is it that teams seem to play better when they play Everton? Because we allow our games to be open at the back and Martinez has us passing it around at a relaxed and arrogant pace. So it's only inevitable that when we have the ball and are pressing forward it looks great on the eye, but then so does any other team when hitting us on the break because of a Barkley slip or a Stones trip.

This makes all our games appear to be end to end edge of your seats football, yet the reality is we bring it on ourselves because of the way we play. Teams shouldn't get credit for playing this way against us as its Everton that allowed them to do it.

William Cartwright
55 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:13:19
Roberto needs a stage manager and speech writer. That should help him with damage limitation. However he would be too egocentric to handle even that concept. It will probably only be a matter of time before he self-destructs. This was probably the first, or a continuation of other early steps in the process.

But all silliness aside, the Club is in a very risky position with so much at stake at this point in time. What with Bill's health, power vacuums, take overs, absentee board members, massive money on the horizon, anti-Everton media set-up, crumbling stadium, controlling or not losing the dressing room, young guns not firing and looking to leave, increasing anxiety in the support base, worsening relations with the 'authorities', transfer window likely to close, McGeady, media spotlight and vultures ready to pounce, Tim Howard, Bill Gates . . . . . Not surprising he is 'losing it'.

The real challenge now will be to get to the finish line intact. I think we will do that. However considering that say only 50% of the real news actually surfaces into the public domain, it would not surprise me that optional stability strategy plans are being developed if not in place already. These will include for continuing with, or without Roberto.

The probability is that the developing dynamic is starting to have an impact on the Club at all levels. It could quite easily implode very quickly. Someone will need to take a firm control and ironically the only person in position to do that is Roberto himself. Can he? Will he? I doubt it.

If Carlisle do a giant killer on us, and Newcastle get a result, then we might be easily drawn into the brown stuff. I hope there is someone behind the scenes who will take some big decisions and they will be the right ones.

Garry Corgan
56 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:13:34
Watford don't seem to have wasted much time in getting their 17 new signing gelled – and they don't have half as much talent or potential as our shower.
Paul Hughes
57 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:13:57
12th in the league, 3 games won in the league since September against the bottom 3, 22 goals conceded at home, and we aren't under-achieving...

I would hate to see it if we were!!!

Darren Hind
58 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:14:07
I think he's right. We are close.

I don't subscribe to this idea that were were brushed aside by City, we were doing okay until Twatkinson took the shithouse rout. The deflected equaliser and the offside winner gave them a scoreline that flattered them.

Other clubs have been flattered recently too, several getting results they simply did not deserve. Mark my words... this run of bad decisions and deflected goals defies any sort of logic... it can't last.

Mark my words... this team is about to embark on a run of victories over the next 7-8 games.

Daniel Lawrence
59 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:14:33
Next he'll tell us that we've finished the window stronger than we were beforehand........
John Malone
60 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:14:54
Just get rid now! This was his make or break season and it's already broken into pieces! Six transfer windows a team full of quality and we are twelfth in the bottom half again! The truth is his philosophy, tactics, substitutions and our all-round management is well short of what is required!

We need a manager who has managed successful teams and knows what's required to get the three points!

Martinez is on another planet if he thinks a bit of talent shown here and there is enough to have a strong team! We are so far off being a top side it is criminal as only a couple of seasons ago we were up there with the best!

Sam Fitzsimmons
61 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:15:42
Really beginning to sound more and more like Comical Ali during the Gulf War:

"Today, the tide has turned, We are destroying them."

Antony Matthews
62 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:16:24
Darren and Roberto......the men in white coats are coming. Mark my words...
Colin Glassar
63 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:16:40
Is there a shrink in the house?
Steven Twine
64 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:16:42
Wow!!!!! He's completely lost it.
Steve Woods
65 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:17:45
It must give Kenwright and Co a warm glow listening to the deluded one defending himself... again.

For pity's sake, put him out of our misery.

Brent Stephens
66 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:18:13
Whatever he says now he's damned (for many, even if he shows contrition and "honesty"). He'd get panned if he stayed silent but it might be the wisest defence. Ah, we don't do defence, so scrap that.
Stephen Ashton
67 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:19:57
We haven't sacked a manager for almost 14 years. Need to give HR something to do next week.

Is delusional ineptitude a sackable offence?

If we finish the season in the same fashion as the last 12 games, we are going down.

Terence Tyler
68 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:20:27
One flew over the cuckoo's nest.
Brent Stephens
69 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:21:16
Darren #50 "Mark my words... This team is about to embark on a run of victories over the next 7-8 games."

Words marked, Darren. What constitutes "a run"? And surely we start counting after the Carlisle game?

Geoff Evans
70 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:21:20
Don't panic, Mr Mannering!
Ian Jones
71 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:22:11
I am beginning to waiver. Think I am warming to him again. I agree with his methods. He is a genius. What's not too like?

We haven't lost to Carlisle for 40-odd years so we should be okay on Sunday.

Can't wait now. It was mentioned in the press about Jagielka keeping a clean sheet when he once played in goal so let's put him there.

Brent Stephens
72 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:24:52
I now feel as if I'm throwing rotten tomatoes at somebody in the stocks, getting dragged along by the mob mentality. Feeling somewhat guilty about it but... hand me another tomato.
Kim Vivian
73 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:25:35
Interesting isn't it, Stewart @47. Going against the flow here, but has anyone considered that we might be on the verge of doing 'a Leicester', rather than 'a Wigan'?

Helmet and flack jacket on now....

Colin Glassar
74 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:28:33
Ditto Brent. I feel sorry for him. He must feel the water up around his neck, and rising, so this sounds like a drowning man treading water furiously..
Mike Hughes
75 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:29:35
Dear oh dear ...... Roberto is more Funny Farm than Finch Farm.

Joe Clitherow
76 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:29:39
Kim 65

I think "strait" is spelled S-T-R-A-I-T and not F-L-A-C-K as you have done.

Don't mention it, no need to thank me

William Cartwright
77 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:33:32
Darren (50) I hope you are right. But let's acknowledge that that is what it is; just hope. It is not based on logic or reason. It is going to be a very interesting ride for the next month!
Dennis Ng
78 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:35:25
Kim, that would mean we actually start outscoring our opponents, which means we are defending better than our opponents. Not happening soon enough I'm afraid.
David Trickey
79 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:37:43
I guess it all depends on how you define underachieving. My definition would be failing to hit the minimum targets set at the beginning of the season. My guess is that one of the targets wasn't to be sitting at the dizzy heights of 12th in the Premier League.

Having said that, degree of achievement (or under), can only really be judged at the end of the season. I would suggest however, that our current philosophy of you score 3 and we'll score 2 puts us in danger of potentially not achieving any/many of our targets – whatever they happen to be.
Dennis Ng
80 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:38:10
He's at the end of the rope now.

He's implying either OFM is much better than him or that he trashed up the squad. You can't praise your squad while suggesting they deserved to lose (not underperforming).

Kim Vivian
81 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:39:23
Ha - very good. I expected a few pearls but that's ace, Joe.

Are you American... because I would spell it S-T-R-A-I-G-H-T?

Bob Skelton
83 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:40:54
If Martinez keeps spouting such utter garbage and upsetting our fanbase what on earth do the players think.

They are professional men who know enough about the game to be able to recognise an amateur who is deficient in any tactical awareness.

What must it be like to be 2 or 3 up and continually wait for the goal keeper cock up, the centre half, dribbling a la Messi, or even a more straightforward corner for a goal to be conceded. Then the floodgates open and we lose again.

I feel sorry for them and for all blue supporters who have to watch and listen to ineptitude from our Spanish Curandero (Charlatan). He can destroy the English language, I'll have a go at his.

Just go RM

Darren Hind
84 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:44:01

No, it's not based on hope, it's based on the logical expectation that these shit decisions and poxy deflections can't last.

I think we will get around 45 points by the time we have played 30 games, if we don't get them, it won't be my luck which is out, it will be my judgement.

Kunal Desai
85 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:44:17
This guy sounds as though he's going harder each day on bottle. I'm just intrigued whether it's JD or Bacardi?
Joe Clitherow
86 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:45:33
Kim (#74)

No I'm Scouse and I spell it like that because that's how it is spelt.

Sid Logan
87 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:47:34
This has made for the most depressing watching/listening I've had for a long term.

Deluded isn't the word it's more like insanity.

There's little point in saying any more. Let's wait and see exactly what the next several games bring. He will either prove himself right or we'll all know for sure he lives in a parallel universe.

There has to be a limit on the times you can offer positive improvement without any sign of it happening!

Andy Crooks
88 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:48:04
I have stated often that I believe Martinez to be the worst coach in our history. I include Walker in that because he at least got sacked before he could relegate us.

It seems to me, now, that Martinez is utterly deranged and could well be the worst coach in... well, just history.

Blackburn had a guy, his name escapes me now, who got some really fierce abuse before he got sacked. In comparison to Roberto, I think he looks like Sir Alf Ramsey.

Dennis Ng
89 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:49:29
All the world's rum is not going to help him Kunal.

Interestingly, I just read a useless blog post on ESPN trying to deflect blame from RM. He is the media's darling, but only a showman, nothing more.

Andy Meighan
90 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:50:07
Sitting here having a nice cold glass of chardonnay and there's tears all over my kitchen table. I can't take much more of this, I really can't...
Kim Vivian
92 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:53:38
Joe, I checked it as well – you can use both spellings. But my version is the 'less commonly' used version. Fair do's.
Harvey Miller
93 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:55:40
He is clearly out of his mind. A lunatic.
Nigel Rickman
95 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:57:14
I've followed the blues for over 55 years now, and I've grown used to the disappointment over the years.

To get rid of him now would do what exactly? Any new man in would take 2 or 3 seasons to build his team, so we would be back to where we are now. Everyone has to admit, the football we are playing is probably the best since the mid 80's. Okay the defence needs sorting out, we all agree on that.

But I think we are not far off, look at how long it took Fergie to get Man Utd sorted. And I don't see Arsenal winning the league every season. Remember we are not playing on a level playing field with the money some clubs have.

All I would say is be patient and be positive.

Andy Meighan
96 Posted 29/01/2016 at 19:59:18
Darren (#52), I'll have a pint of what your drinking, please. I sincerely hope that was tongue in cheek.
Barry Thompson
97 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:00:33
Give the man a break for God's sake, he clearly knows what he is doing. No pain – no gain, after all, you can't have the rainbow without the rain.

All you doubting Thomases are going to look really foolish once the penny finally drops with those thick as pig shit players and they finally develop the know-how of a winning team and then it all comes together in a blaze of royal blue glory.

Plus, he does look cool in those brown shoes.

Joe Clitherow
98 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:04:28
Not nearly as foolish as you look right this minute, Barry

(Ssorry no offence meant... couldn't resist!)

William Cartwright
99 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:04:37

Poor decisions come and go and they do not necessarily balance out. Remember the season under Moyes, when we were not awarded a penalty until the 38th game? Looks like its going to be the same this year too. (That is an incredible statistic which should get the conspiracy theory juices flowing!)

A first half of the season of being on the wrong end of bad refereeing does not mean we will benefit from good decisions in the second half.

The latest Barry Horne article in the Echo suggest we should stop looking for excuses. However, Roberto has fallen into that trap already. We should develop a siege type mentality and focus on improving game by game and just see where it takes us.

Brent Stephens
100 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:04:51
Colin (#68). For all I think he's a crap manager and want him replaced, on a personal level I can empathise with what he must be feeling. I just hope this doesn't all get too vitriolic.
Brian Porter
101 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:09:18
Martinez has to be the first man on history to open his mouth but talk out of his arse. When on earth is someone, anyone, going to take the necessary action to get rid of this deluded charlatan?

How can he say these things when everyone and his aunt can see exactly what's happening to our once great club? The guy needs psychiatric help for sure but meanwhile our season goes down the drain with every game and with every inane muttering from Martinez.

Why is this being allowed to continue when any other club would have got rid of this abject amateur long ago?

Tim Locke
102 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:11:06
What else could he say? Short of being honest and saying "I am doing a shocking job and totally agree we are under achieving" – what else could he say?

Typical Martinez response, it's not as bad as it looks and where is it is a little off target it will get better, losing is just an opportunity to make you appreciate winning more. Relegation is an opportunity to get promoted.

Fans leaving the stadium gives others the opportunity to watch the games. He needs to get a job in politics not football or at least read a book on tactics

Ernie Baywood
103 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:15:47
Does he think we don't understand that he's trying to build something for the future?

Does he really not realise that this team is already capable of much more if only he had an ounce of defensive sense?

I'd have confidence in jam tomorrow if he could at least get some of the available jam today.

I agree with him that this team will develop, but will Roberto? He's making a very good case in these comments for his own dismissal.

Andy Crooks
104 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:16:31
Barry, "give the man a break", how about, for the vast fortune he is paid, he gives us a fucking break and stops acing like a clueless, bewildered, inept half-wit?

Andy Walker
105 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:19:52
"You cannot be underachieving when this team is new,"

"I will never come out with excuses and try to justify lack of wins."

Another contrary diatribe. He's just incapable of making clear, coherent statements. Is it any wonder the team doesn't appear to have a clue how to set up?

Stephen Brown
106 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:21:36
As a 14-year-old girl might say... #cringe!!!!!!
Tony Abrahams
109 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:23:37
Darren, you called it right last season, let's hope you are right again.

Thought Atkinson, was a disgrace the other night, and I also thought we never played that badly. Actually blamed Martinez, for his crazy decision to put on Kone, for Gerry, instead of going like for like with Lennon.

This is a big worry to me now regarding Martinez, because I just can't see what possessed him to make such a strange decision. It really was that bad.

Andy Walker
111 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:24:23
Apparently Roberto reckons we should win at least 5 out of our next 4 matches.
Mike Hayes
112 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:29:15
Nigel Rickman, stop comparing us to Man Utd – we are emulating Wigan right now and getting worse. Any manager worth his salt would realise his tactics are not working – it is clear the formation is wrong, players are out of position, unfit and look jaded and second to every ball. They don’t look arsed half the time as if they know the set-up is all wrong.

Martinez is 3 leagues out of his depth – he frustrates the fans who practically sit on their hands in silence at Goodison; it’s embarrassing to watch as well as frustrating. He’s inept, stubborn, rambles about anything, and everything is 'phenomenal' – what’s phenomenal is he’s still in a job.

It’s criminal what he is doing to the club, as if it wasn’t enough, the crap and lies, smoke and mirrors about ground moves and takeovers we have had to take over the last 17 years, and going on 21 without a trophy... if that’s not patience, WTF is???

He needs to go now whilst he still has a shred of credit as a (pretend) manager. It hurts to be a blue right now – we could do no worse from now to season's end to get Unsy and big Dunc in to salvage something. COYB.

Sid Logan
113 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:29:23
Tim (#91),

I intended to leave this debate and switch off but I couldn't resist one comment to your post.

He could say that: "We realise our defending has been pretty poor. We are now going to go back to basics and keep as many clean sheets as we can.

"At the same time I've told the players that our aim will be, as well as keeping clean sheets, to get the all from back to front as quickly as possible as often as possible.

In the final third I want player to ensure they shoot on site. If we don't finish games with at least half a dozen shots on target in each half I will want to know why.

"This will be out approach in the forthcoming games and I promise you we will pick up as many points as possible. If you don't see the improvements I've mentioned I promise I will throw myself off the roof of the main stand on a match day. Thank you."

Dave Rosper
114 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:31:52
I have watched Everton this season (quietly) with growing despair at the inevitability of the game outcomes and fear of the future decline of the cub I love and the accompanying haemorrhage of player talent.

I've crossed the Rubicon. We need to get angry. This is Everton: 12fth in the league is underachieving. The blaming of world cup hangovers, young teams, Goodison crowds etc is not good enough.

Roberto... the team needs to know how to play more effectively and collectively when they haven't got the ball.

This will result in fewer goals conceded... should we shout it from the stands?
Eugene Ruane
115 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:34:38
[Rubs chin]

Christ where did this come from?

Could it be that he's gone a bit... mental?

I mean sure his point-of-view can be debated, but stridently and confidently articulating these particular opinions at this particular moment in time (ie, after recent shite results and given the reasons for those results) shows his judgement is certainly goosed.

I don't want to get too technical, but to use a term often used in the sphere of psychiatric therapy and/or psycho-analysis, he is exhibiting signs of being completely off his fucking jaffa.

Paul Mackie
116 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:35:52
Darren (#77) – Those 'poxy deflections' wouldn't be a problem if our players actually closed down the opposition or maybe pressed them occasionally. If they've been told to do it and aren't, then Martinez needs to sort it out. If they're not being told to do it, then Martinez needs to sort it out. Do you seem where I'm going with this?
Colin Glassar
117 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:38:15
Whenever Roberto talks I feel like singing, Somewhere over the rainbow.... or something from the Sound of Music.
James Stewart
118 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:39:43
Car crash manager.
Simon Hermansen
119 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:40:38
Need to learn to win, start winning, win, win, win etc etc blah blah....

How about the odd clean sheet too, perhaps start from there...

Tony Abrahams
120 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:41:32
Better to be like The Chief in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Colin!
Christy Ring
121 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:43:05
Not alone is he bullshitting us, and insulting our intelligence, he's deluded, and truly believes he's doing a good job.
It's time for the men in white coats to come and take him away.
Phil Walling
122 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:44:29
Picking up on Darren's positivity, lets all hope the bad shit stops - it surely can't go on forever, can it?

15 games then produce 5 wins, 5 draws and 5 defeats. Not too much to hope for, surely? That will see us finish on 49 points and around 8th/9th place.

Parity achieved. Job secure.

Place your bets!

Ray Said
123 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:49:08
Sounds like RM has been pulling on the ganja, partaking of the herb, taking the chalice and otherwise getting stoned off his head. What a strange man he turned out to be eh?
Dean Adams
125 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:55:48
Phil (#106),

Well, yes it can. It has been going on for at least 30 years that I know of.

Mike Hughes
126 Posted 29/01/2016 at 20:58:56
I've just double-locked all doors and windows.

While RM is on the loose can any of us sleep soundly in our beds?

In the night?

In the dark?

David Hallwood
128 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:05:38
All we need now is: "When Saturn aligns with Mars and the red frog bleeds blue, then we shall be 5th."
Colin Glassar
129 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:06:20
I heard he's off to the USA in the summer to work as a counsellor in a summer football camp. Other activities will include face painting, ceramics, yoga, tree hugging and poetry recitals.

Roberto said, this is a unique opportunity to work in a phenomenal environment where I will be able to realise a lifelong dream – singing Kumbaya around a camp fire, sin miedo.

Joe Foster
130 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:06:54
Wibble, Wibble.
Amit Vithlani
131 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:08:13
There is a reference to the team not being title winners in the recent past as if somehow our fan base was expecting us to be champions and the tag of under achievers was set against this.

Senor Bob, if we did have such lofty ambitions, you and BK would have been lynched many months ago.

Tony Parsons
132 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:08:33
Just shows his ambitions, sack him now.

This team he is building will be decimated in the summer so where will we be then?

Chris Owens
133 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:09:56
"Close to fulfilling our potential". Really? We're in the bottom half of the table again. No improvement on last season's disastrous campaign. The players are generally accepted as being good enough for the top six, but they don't know how to win football matches, and it looks like the manager has no intention of showing them how.

"Developing something that is going to be very powerful for the future". The best players will probably leave in the summer, because we've failed to qualify for Europe. Why would Lukaku and Stones want to stay and waste another year of their relatively short footballing lives competing in mid-table if they are good enough to play at the top level? We, the fans, are stuck with Everton, but they are not.

Martinez keeps saying that the players are still learning, but are they? Making the same mistakes time and again doesn't look like learning to me. The Goodison crowd is having to teach Stones how to defend, by booing him when he takes unnecessary chances. Why isn't Martinez taking the lead in coaching him?

These ridiculous statements from Martinez indicate that he does not understand what we need to do to win games, so nothing will be done. Everton FC will continue to let down the long-suffering fans.

Matt Muzi
134 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:11:42
If what's happening on the pitch isn't concerning enough he comes out with rubbish like this. Last week it was a backhanded swipe at the support at home games.

RM needs to realise that actions speak louder than words. I appreciate he has to be seen to protect the players in the media, but there comes a time when he must stop talking rubbish a tell it how it is, he'd probably find we'd get behind him if he did.

To me he's clearly out of his depth and either doesn't know what to do, or is that blinkered and stubborn believes he knows best.

Tom Edwards
135 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:16:11
Eugene 99 – Absolutely hilarious mate! But seriously.... I have been convinced for some time now that the guy IS deluded. He does not see anything wrong in what he has done to this club. He BELIEVES that we are on the way to being able to compete for a top four spot.

What really worries me is that the board are clearly convinced he is the man for the job. Otherwise, anyone with at least half an eye in his head could see what a fucking mess he is making.

I am seriously worried for our top flight status if we keep this clown. I lived in Carlisle for many years and a lot of my old friends up there are relishing Sunday's meeting. They think we are there for the taking and if I am honest with myself, I think they are right.

Dave Abrahams
136 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:16:40
If Everton's position wasn't so serious, I'd feel really sorry for him, and we are in serious danger of going down.
Phil Walling
137 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:25:51
Dave @118; you don't honestly believe we are incapable of gaining just anther 10 points, surely?

I'm Robert's biggest critic but some on here are going seriously over the top tonight!

Mark Williams
138 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:26:11
I seriously wonder what life in general is like through the eyes of Bobby. It must be nice breezing through life seeing what you want to see. Shame he's at our club doing it.
Glen Garrett
139 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:27:27
What a complete tit Martinez is, he so needs to go now – it sounds like it's only going to get even worse.
Gerard Carey
140 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:31:34
Demented, think he's going ga ga. Men in white coats cant be far away. Maybe he has been touched like David Icke!!!!!. Think I know what his first message was!!!!, he is slowly to get rid of all defenders in football starting at Everton.
Jack Mason
141 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:33:30
Roberto's Top 10, iPod playlist right now:

What The World Needs Now - Dionne Warwick
Promised You A Miracle - Simple Minds
Daydream Believer - The Monkees
Shiny Happy People - REM
The Seeker - The Who
Tubthumping - Chumbawamba
Don't Worry Be Happy - Bobby Mcferrin
Everybody Loves Me Baby - Don McLean
Don't Stop Me Now - Queen
I Am The Walrus - The Beatles

Geoff Evans
142 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:37:15
Dave 118: You're a better man than me mate, it's the everyday supporters who are expected to swallow this rubbish on and off the pitch I feel sorry for. They deserve more than this idiot and his progressively rediculous, delusional excuses.

I've even got a bad feeling about Sunday.

Paul Tran
143 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:39:53
I'm with Darren. Logic, custom and practice tells me that our luck will turn and we'll pick up the points. The bookies aren't making avoiding relegation a viable bet this time and that tells you all you need to know. See you on Betfair if you disagree!

That said, we've definitely underachieved this season and the one before. Just like a year ago, if he keeps his job, he's a lucky man.

Colin Glassar
144 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:41:42
16/1 for Roberto to get the proverbial boot, Paul.
Barry Thompson
145 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:43:10

Stand By Your Man - Tammy Wynette

Phil Walling
146 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:45:40
Colin, I wonder if that means the bookies think there are 16 managers more likely to get the chop than our man?
Jack Mason
147 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:45:58
D.I.V.O.R.C.E, would be more appropriate I think, Barry.
Colin Glassar
148 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:46:16

Tiptoe through the tulips - Tiny Tim

Colin Glassar
149 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:47:59
They're the odds, Phil. I don't know... you're the resident bookie on here.
Mike Hughes
150 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:49:32
With the postponement of the Merseyside derby, we may not play from 13th February until 1st March.

RM being off his rocker, there just happens to be a full moon slap bang in the middle of that - 22nd February.

This is no time for melodrama but MAY THE LORD GOD'S MERCY SHINE DOWN ON US ALL.

Jack Mason
151 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:50:01
Nice one, Colin. You know before the Bookies, Evertonians are always the first to know who's gonna get sacked.
Barry Thompson
152 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:50:51
Jack, Richard Dodd would probably go for:
Whose Sorry Now.
Patrick Murphy
153 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:51:20
After having a search on the internet from a myriad of match reports etc. the many many quotes by Roberto during his time at Wigan particularly during his cup-winning season, his refrain never alters, it never wavers, it remains the same. However, what he used to say in a couple of sentences has become elongated to the point of hilarity during his time at Goodison.

The more I read, the less impressed I am about the man. I called him out very early in his Everton FC career as being akin to Mike Walker, from what I've witnessed from his team and heard in his ramblings at press conferences I believe he could be far more toxic than Walker for the club in the long run and if he remains in place a minute past the end of this season we will be in for a battle royal to keep our PL place next season.

Not that I'm over-confident we will be completely safe this term, and I certainly wouldn't want to go into the last few games of the season needing a certain number of points to be safe as this man has time and time again led his teams to defeat when it was least expected.

Somebody at the club has to wake up and smell the coffee because as the games run out and the pressure builds we need a person at the helm that is rational and smart, not a person who is stubborn and relies on belief alone. But to confound everybody he will probably lift the FA Cup at Wembley and get a top 10 place in the League, his reputation enhanced and his place in Everton's history assured – if that happened would I change my mind and give him another season – the short answer to that is NO!

Peter Murray
154 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:57:20
So the Anti-Martinez Bandwagon trundles on.

Moyes had 11 years. Martinez has not yet had 3.

You need 5 years to build a team particularly where the ethos is developing youth and this he is doing well. He is right when he says we have some of the best young players in Europe.

Obviously certain areas need to be worked upon, mainly concentration and decision making.

I predict we will beat Carlisle by at least 2 clear goals and then we stand a good chance of getting to the final and winning it.

Maybe then the bandwagon will grind to a halt. But I doubt it.

Jack Mason
155 Posted 29/01/2016 at 21:59:31
Barry @ 132, aye that he would. Well said Patrick the answer should be a resounding "NO".

I think as Evertonians, we've just about had enough of the BS. From the Manager, the Board, it hasn't helped with Roberto pushing it over the cliff with the surreal. But enough is enough, the lies, false promises.

As John Lennon sung just "Gimme Some Truth".

Seb Niemand
156 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:03:54
What else would you expect him to say? The man's hubris is fantastic and sickening. I cannot, in 37 years, think of a time when I wanted a manager gone worse than I do now.

Martinez is a terrible manager and, his stupidity limitless and in his arrogance and pig headed determination to drag this club down through that arrogance and stupidity marks him as pretty rotten human being in my books.
Andy Crooks
157 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:08:28
Phil, Martinez is 16/1 to get the boot because there is some uncertainty about the club. If he were Spurs manager, for example, the odds after the City result would be long odds on. I suspect that the odds could tumble if the right circumstances unfold.

I think unless, we are in peril of relegation, new owners will wait until the summer before sacking him.

I think Kenwright will stick by him till the end of the season unless the following happens:

We lose to Carlisle and Newcastle. Now the combined odds against both those contingencies seems to me to be just higher than 16/1. Added to that the possibility that Kenwright will want to be right over his appointment I believe he will stay.

However, I cannot believe that Martinez will be manager at the start of next season and I believe that would be, at fair odds against, a decent bet.

Anthony Jones
158 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:12:30
He signed loan players on full contracts, offered new deals to existing players, and brought in lads who are well acquainted with his leadership. He plays Gareth Barry when when he is running on fumes. He has kept Osman, Pienaar and Hibbert around for continuity.

This is not a young, developing squad. It is a mixed squad, not unlike most others in the league. Brenda was waffling like this just before he was let go. It would be nice if Roberto would stop waffling, as he is going nowhere.

Jack Mason
159 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:14:51
Andy, Spurs wouldn't tolerate a manager outside the Top 8, let alone 12th. But let me ask you this question: Say we beat Carlisle then lose to Newcastle, fall deeper into a relegation fight but stay in the FA Cup... Do you really believe the Board or a new Board will stick with him? I don't know.
Harvey Miller
160 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:24:09
Resign, Bobby.

Well, I know he won't. But If enough fans will stop and go to the games, then maybe someone (the board) will understand. Surely they can't ignore all the bad publicity, can they?

Or maybe they can.

But one thing is clear, since Walker, no manager has been so hated and for a good reason, not even Smith.

Phil Walling
161 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:34:33
Colin, Andy, I was being frivolous about the odds of a sacking for Roberto!

He may be on offer at 16/1 but there is probably only LVG and the Norwich guy more likely to get the chop.

Chris Gould
162 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:34:37
Harvey, I don't think Martinez is hated. Not by the majority. Many have lost faith in him and shake their heads at the nonsense he comes out with... but they don't hate him. I certainly don't. I'm giving him my continued support until the end of the season.
John Roberts
163 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:36:04
Hate to say it but I kind of want results to go against us now, so the board can wake up and boot out RM; 2½ years and no progress.

There is no strong mentality in this team, starting from the Management, that's always been our downfall and why we never get results when it matters. The last 2 years have been a joke.

Darryl Ritchie
164 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:37:13
The really sad thing about this whole thing, is that I'm certain Martinez believes every word he says. I would have a lot pity for him, if only he wasn't the manager of Everton Football Club.

Pie in the sky stuff. Refusing to face reality. We aren't as bad as some on here think, but we're nowhere near to where we should be.

Harvey Miller
165 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:48:24
He promised us Champions League. We are now 11-12 in the league again. This is quite far from it so it's quite fair to say he is UNDERACHEIVING big time.
Douglas McClenaghan
166 Posted 29/01/2016 at 22:57:34
Yes, Anthony 136, he sounds like Rodgers. Heaven help us.
Christopher Dover
167 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:02:14
If at 12 we are not under achieving then if we drop a couple more places we will be.

So it must be if we gain 2 or 3 places we must be over achieving.

So 12 is our goal for this season.

Trevor Peers
168 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:03:43
Why didn't people look at this guys track record before blessing him as the mesiah, he is an under achiever in the premiership, that was obvious from day one.

Yet he took a lot of people in, simply because they didn't do thier homework on him, including BK who should of known better.

It was a lazy appointment, let's hope are get it right next time out.

Colin Glassar
169 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:03:44
Harvey, I've asked this several times and no one has answered me convincingly. When and where did Martinez promise us CL? In the press conference, when he was presented to the media, BK said, "and, he's promised to get us into the CL". Now I remember Roberto going red but not making any comment regarding BK's flippant comment and they went on to talk about other things.

If someone can show me a video or a press clipping to prove your statement then fine but until then, as far as I'm concerned it's just another urban myth.

Christopher Dover
170 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:04:53
Look there is a misunderstanding in the language.

As others have pointed out he did not say get us into champions league he said would get us in the championship league, so he is well on his way to keep his promise.

Sean Kelly
171 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:09:35
Martinez never promised Champions League. Bill put him in it.

Let's be realistic. We are not Champions League material at the moment. We might have players that are up to that standard but Martinez cannot set a team up properly.

Most recent example is Wednesday. He plays Stones out of position and leave possibly the best right fullback on the bench. He's trying to be too clever. We are set up like Wigan but with better players.

The players won't say "Fuck it" as they know he will drop them next game.

Colin Glassar
172 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:12:23
Thank you, Sean.
Bill Gall
173 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:14:17
And after all these complaints, we will still get nearly a full house on Wednesday.
Colin Glassar
174 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:33:53
I've watched some dire football, under some dire managers, at Goodison Bill but as an Evertonian you NEVER lose hope. Players, managers and yes, even chairmen come and go but we remain faithful. Deluded perhaps, but ever faithful.
Jack Mason
176 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:38:12
Amen brother Colin. It's best not to test our patience too much though.
Andrew Cunningham
177 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:46:10
He says "We will be powerful in the future". But he also said elsewhere that to keep our best players we have to have success now. He seems to be contradicting himself.
John Jones
178 Posted 29/01/2016 at 23:53:57
I'm not even surprised by the borderline insane statements RM makes anymore.

The guy is a self promoting charlatan, in his eyes he is the greatest coach that's ever lived. Hes dogmatic and stubborn, only an idiot keeps putting their bollocks in the fire over and over.

Alas we have him till next season, I don't doubt it. Current board wont shell out compensation when a takeover could be on the horizon, why shell out and lose cash and the new board wont want to seem reckless or drastic so will hang on until the summer.

This season is a write-off and sadly it could cost us two or three of the best players to have played for us for a long long time.

Chris Leyland
179 Posted 29/01/2016 at 00:08:07
I remain amazed beyond belief that there are people on here talking about 'anti-Martinez bandwagons' and 'luck turning' and 'it takes 5 years to build a team'...

FFS, wake up and smell the bullshit. We have won just 18 of the last 61 league games. That has nothing to do with luck.

It does not take 5 years to build a team. Leicester seem to have managed it in somewhat less than this mythical timescale. Anyone who thinks we are going in any direction other than backwards is frankly deluded.

Brent Stephens
180 Posted 30/01/2016 at 00:15:19
Anthony Jones (#139) "He plays Gareth Barry when he is running on fumes."

The most ridiculous fecking post this season. Probably the most consistently performing player this season.

Gordon Crawford
181 Posted 30/01/2016 at 00:18:51
Gareth Barry has been immense and I'm one of his biggest critics.
Martinez hasn't a clue how to take us forward as a team.
Brent Stephens
182 Posted 30/01/2016 at 00:29:16
I've been solidly "Roberto Out" for a year or more, and still am. But some of the posts are now getting embarrassing in their use of language – references to Roberto being a lunatic, a madman, psychotic, and worse. Can't we just say we disagree with his analysis and tactics without the vitriol?

We seem to pride ourselves on TW as being sophisticated commentators but this demeans us. And before anybody says, I share your anger with where we are.

Lewis Abbott
183 Posted 30/01/2016 at 00:42:41
Just reading up on some Martinez history – when he took over at Wigan he said (not word for word mind) that Steve Bruces 11th placed finish was a good building block for success and that Wigan should be aiming for European football. Sadly he achieved that legacy by leaving Wigan a division lower but in Europe but they undeniably went backwards under him. I never realised that Wigan where actually decent for a newly promoted side till he took over.

Below is an article I found written around the time he left Wigan and joined Everton; it's safe to say that the same article could be published should he leave Everton in the coming days but with just the names and the dates changed.

With Roberto Martinez set to decide today whether to stay at Wigan, Tom McDermott says they might be better off without a manager who took them backwards...

Since Roberto Martinez was appointed Wigan manager in 2009, his intelligence and personality has won him many admirers. What's not to like? What we have also found out is that the Spaniard is incredibly naive tactically and although his passing style might be pleasing on the eye (sometimes), ultimately it's failed him and the club.

During the build-up to their season-closing 2-2 draw against Aston Villa, Martinez said: "I know it can sound a bit stupid but I've never, ever thought about my situation yet."

With respect, Roberto, is it something that should be left for you to decide? Although Wigan had finally fell through the trapdoor with a 4-1 thrashing by Arsenal at the Emirates, there was an air of inevitability about it. The writing had been on the wall for about four years.

There has also been a bit of a myth surrounding Martinez for most of his time at the club. The myth is that Martinez is destined for a 'top' job and when such a vacancy is available he will be a resounding success. It's seen by some as a reward for his outstanding performance in his current role. Well, why not? He doesn't just look the part. He's won the FA Cup you know!

Martinez has a vision of how the game should be played, which started long before his successful spell in charge of Swansea City. But, as has been shown this season, it can only take you so far, and a parting of the ways might be more beneficial for Wigan than it is for Martinez.

It's hard not to cringe when Wigan chairman Dave Whelan talks about the "special" job Martinez has done at the DW Stadium. So it's probably worth looking at just how well he's performed.

Wigan spent eight years in the Premier League, with Martinez in charge for the last four. In 2009-10, they finished 16th with 36 points, winning nine games. In 2010-11 they finished 16th again, winning nine games. In 2011-12 season they improved to 15th, winning 11 matches. But they finished this season in 18th place conceding 73 goals and were relegated from the Premier League.

It's instructive to compare that period to Wigan's four pre-Martinez top-flight years. Having been promoted under Paul Jewell, they finished 2005-06 in 10th place, scoring 45 goals (more than they managed in three of Martinez's seasons) and winning 15 games on their way to 51 points despite the distraction of reaching the 2006 League Cup Final.

In 2006-07 they finished 17th on 38 points, staying up on goal difference, but still managed more points than in two Martinez seasons and more wins (10) than in three terms under the Spaniard. After a spell under Chris Hutchings they spent most of 2007-08 under Steve Bruce and finished 14th – again, higher than any Martinez season – and in his only full season Bruce took them to 11th place and a 45-point total including 12 wins. In many ways, it was their high-water mark, but Bruce left for Sunderland and Wigan turned to Martinez.

Statistically (as well as in divisions), Martinez's four-year reign took Wigan backwards. He managed 38 wins in four years: 158 points from 152 games, or 1.039 points per game. In the previous four years, they won 47 games and gathered 184 points, or 1.211 ppg. Before Martinez, Wigan averaged 0.99 goals scored per game and 1.36 conceded; under him, their goals scored rose to 1.09 but their goals conceded shot to 1.81 per game.

They finished his first season with a -42 goal difference: on average they were more than a goal per game behind their opponents. This tightened up in his second two years, and indeed the goals-scored column has risen every year under Martinez from 37 in 2009-10 to 47 this term. Sadly, Wigan have never failed to concede at least 60 goals per season under the Spaniard – more than in any of their previous four top-flight seasons.

Martinez's main problem is that his commitment to attacking football regularly leaves his side exposed at the back. He has tinkered with many a formation but favours either a back three or a 4-2-3-1, each giving his midfielders licence to roam and interchange. If given the time and space, it can work and they can hurt you.

But give a West Ham or a Stoke time to play their way and they will hurt you too. The difference is, Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis have found a way that works and that keeps them in the league. Martinez's way doesn't and at best enables them to hover just above safety. Just ask Blackburn fans about their club's decision to part company with Allardyce, who once complained that foreign managers get more respect than their English peers a viewpoint which might be treated with some sympathy by Jewell and Bruce.

The reign of Spain: mainly in vain?

Inevitably, people will raise this season's FA Cup success as a sign that Martinez has got it right. In the final against Manchester City and against Everton at Goodison Park in an earlier round, Martinez's side performed and performed very well. Quite rightly they received credit.

Over the years though in the Premier League, they have shown they are capable of beating sides in the top half of the division, in these kind of one-off games. Victories at Arsenal and at home to Manchester United during the 2011-12 campaign, spring to mind.

What wasn't quite as impressive during their FA Cup run were the wins against Bournemouth (after two attempts), Macclesfield, Huddersfield and Millwall. And you only have to look over the list of managers to have reached cup finals to realise that you aren't necessarily a great manager just because you've had a bespoke suit fitted.

The argument is that Wigan have overachieved for years, doing well to stay in the division at all, and that Martinez will be able to achieve more at a bigger club with better players. But what usually makes the better managers successful is their ability to adapt and know when to introduce a Plan B.

And that's where Martinez's second issue gets in the way. Besides rejigging his formation, he doesn't have a tactical Plan B and maybe he knew that when he chose to turn down first the Aston Villa job and then the Liverpool one.

It wouldn't be such a surprise to see Martinez take on another manager job in the Premier League this pre-season but time will probably tell that Wigan is his perfect match.

This clown has to be removed from the club before it's too late. I don't want to hear people saying "It's not the Everton way" – I want people to get really fucking angry with it and start letting the club know just how we feel. Starting Sunday and then continuing Wednesday until the message is pretty clear.

Gerry Quinn
184 Posted 30/01/2016 at 00:49:23
The players won't say "Fuck it" as they know he will drop them next game.

Sean, can't we get Howard to say "Fuck it"?

Gary Carter
185 Posted 30/01/2016 at 00:54:05
I've got to say, I've actually got nothing but admiration for the level of bullshit this man is able to come out with, it's astonishing. If he genuinely believes any of that, he needs locking up in a mental institute.

He's taking us backwards and there is NOTHING in any of our performances for the last two seasons to suggest that is going to change AND his team at Wigan performed exactly the same way.

He needs to go!!!

Eugene Ruane
186 Posted 30/01/2016 at 01:02:19
Brent (162), I'll watch the responses to your post with interest.

The most common response when someone gives it "hey c'mon guys, enough, mmmkaay" is usually along the lines of 'who made you head fucking prefect?' but today might be different.

By the way, if it talks like a crackpot..

Geoff Evans
187 Posted 30/01/2016 at 01:20:52
Chris (#159): In eight lines, you've said everything. The best thread, ever. Indisputable. Brilliant.
Jack Mason
188 Posted 30/01/2016 at 01:21:40
Everybody's gone to bed Eugene, it's only alcoholics and insomniacs who are up at this time. Anyway I'm off, gotta box of Malbec to kill.
Don Alexander
189 Posted 30/01/2016 at 01:39:36
If Martinez had been Hitler in the bunker in 1945;

"The plan has been somewhat side-lined, I agree. But we have the core strength to emerge respected by those who mistakenly consider themselves opponents. We will prevail, trust me!"

Darren Hind
190 Posted 30/01/2016 at 02:16:37
Chris Leyland

You may remain "amazed beyond belief" (if that's even possible) but luck does turn, even for the "deluded". That's what generally puts an end to these bad runs.

Until the second half of last season, Leicester could not buy a win, but (and here's the thing) everyone who had beaten them knew they had been in a game, they were nobody's pushover and anyone who was following there fortunes KNEW that at some point they would start to get the results their performances warranted. I'm stunned by Leicester this season, but I wasn't in the least bit surprised that their results improved dramatically and they comfortable beat the drop.

If Everton's results don't improve dramatically I'll... I'll... I'll go to the foot of our stairs.

I'll be in the bookies tomorrow inquiring about accumulative odds of Everton stringing together a run. I will also be on here to face the ridicule if I'm proved to be "deluded"... I doubt very much that you will do either.

You may be "amazed beyond belief", but you wont be in the bookies tomorrow backing us to go down and you will be hoping that your posts are forgotten if indeed it turns out that YOU were the deluded one.

I'm not blind to Martinez's flaws. I've been pointing them out for long enough, but I've seen enough recently to believe we will see a marked improvement in results in the very near future.

I could of course be wrong, but does that make me "deluded"? I guess it probably does if you are the sort of guy who can be "amazed beyond belief".

Bill Gall
191 Posted 30/01/2016 at 02:22:07
Darren, I admire your comments about Leicester but, the thing is, they got were they are by changing their manager.
Ernie Baywood
192 Posted 30/01/2016 at 02:25:28
And emigrants.

At the risk of assigning myself the role of deputy prefect, I agree to some extent with Brent.

The quest to display the most outrage is a bit silly. This set of 150+ comments, for example, contains little of any substance. You could post on it without having read it, which most probably did.

That said, it's not my playground. Just saying that I enjoy reading opinions from my fellow blues and they're getting harder to find.

Phil Sammon
193 Posted 30/01/2016 at 02:49:34
Lunatic, madman, insane... all are probably going too far.

However he does say some things that make him either deluded or a liar... or just a man trying to cover his own arse.

If he genuinely thinks we are not underachieving then he fits into at least one of the categories above.

Martinez knows a thing or two about hyperbole. I'm sure he understands that it works both ways.

David Booth
194 Posted 30/01/2016 at 02:53:38
I've just realised, we've all been guilty of misinterperting Martinez.

We thought he said 'Champions League' - but how silly we've been.

Listen closely: what he actually said was 'Championship'!

Jack Mason
195 Posted 30/01/2016 at 03:00:58
Here's some substance for you, Ernie: 6 wins in 23. It's not good enough. Better managers then Martinez have been sacked for it.

Stop trying to make out that people are over-reacting. People are angry, they have every right to be, results must improve and quickly. If they don't, you think it's bad now.

Allegedly, as one fellow director turned round and said, "You''ll be next". Walter Smith was sacked the following week. The venom, fume, toxic atmosphere, whatever you want to call it are here to stay, unless fans start to see progress.

So please spare us, your put downs and disparaging remarks, there's probably not one Evertonian out there who wouldn't be prepared to be proved wrong. As Colin said earlier, we're a faithful bunch, but please don't mistake us for idiots.

Mark Andersson
196 Posted 30/01/2016 at 03:55:58
Brilliant almost one-sided debate. I commend anyone that still believes in Martinez. Even when faced with facts, the believers are more inclined to live in hope. That's their prerogative. What fascinated me reading every post, is that I believe that as fans our opinion is worthless.

If most fans can see the flaws in our play, then why can't the players? The players are professional individuals, not robots, so why can't they play the game to their strengths, ignore the tactics that the manager sets out, and get the job done – win ugly? Martinez can't drop the whole team if they want to play it their way.

Of course it will never happen as that would be seen as mutiny, and we have nice blokes playing for us.

I hope we avoid relegation and I hope we can go on to win the FA Cup. The reality is though, I think, going on the facts and past history of the manager, we will have a very underachieving last half of the season.

Dennis Ng
197 Posted 30/01/2016 at 04:09:55
Bill, not totally true. As much as I rate Ranieri (good manager that gets you stability and fairly good results), Leicester City won 7 of their last 10 last season(22 points in that stretch). The whole rags to riches story started last season and many Ranieri detractors use that to credit Pearson. Ranieri must be credited for being able to sustain and perhaps kick it up a notch or two, but let's not put Ranieri in the ranks of miracle worker. Credit to Leicester City for being gutsy enough to gamble in a "has been" in so many people's eyes.

While discussing the dilemma that is RM, my friend asked if things turn around, would I be OK to keep RM. I said yes (similar to me judging OFM by results first then style if he comes back per bookmakers say), but that would have to be a streak similar if not better than what Leicester did, and it needs to start now. I can foresee him sacrificing league games for the much desired FA Cup and we don't want that if we're fighting to stave off relegation.

Put up a long winning streak, beef up that defence, then RM can start talking again. Anything he says now is just fluff and smokescreen, much like LVG's theoretical lecture, Mou's denial, SAF and AW spit spat.

Ernie Baywood
198 Posted 30/01/2016 at 04:19:11
I'm really trying Jack, but your response has nothing to do with my post. It's just more outrage.
William Cartwright
199 Posted 30/01/2016 at 05:24:18
How about some balanced observations of Roberto? Here are the good points:-

1. I like the let's not get in the manager's face approach. Why? Because I am 'old school' and I absolutely revolt against the "Gimme everything now" approach and lack of respect for the man responsible in charge who can make a mistake as regularly as players. That's how Liverpool behave. We should be good enough to win without it.

2. I like the accent on attacking football.

3. I like the time and space given to EITC and the attitudes underlying it.

4. I like his style and demeanor; seriously. I think it shows a bit of class.

5. I like his sense of humor.

6. I like his positiveness, but in smaller doses.

Here are the bad points:-< br>
1. Machiavellian tendencies – Eto'o.

2. Bears a grudge – Distin.

3. Inconsistent – Contradicts himself.

4.Favoritism – Howard.

5. Fantasist – Champions League.

6. Technically suspect with bad team selections and game planning.

7. Opportunist – Walked out on Wigan when largely responsible for their relegation.

8.Two faced – Howard / Distin.

9. Cronyism – Shuffling of the backroom staff

10. Misplaced values – Poor training regimes

11. Over-elaboration

On balance? Not right for Everton.

Martin Faulkner
202 Posted 30/01/2016 at 06:01:34
My missus fucking loves him, can't believe how he's got me to stop staying up until stupid o'clock in the morning to watch the blues.

It's fuckin sad when you're watching golf instead of your team.

As many have said already, the man's deluded; however, it is said that there is a very fine line between genius and madness.

Jack Mason
203 Posted 30/01/2016 at 06:04:29
Ernie you asked for substance, I gave you our record for this season. There's no outrage here on my side mate. Unfortunately I've seen it all before. Here's our heritage, the great Corinthians maybe dying out, but they tell me second best isn't good enough, only the best will do. That's a lesson I've taken, in business and in life. I figure maybe the lessons they taught us should have some relevance. I haven't posted for a long time, besides this month and I suspect I'm not the only one. Change is afoot.

I would back Roberto Martinez to the hilt, if he would just turn round and show me.... ya' know what, I'm going to stop the management speak, let's get a defensive coach in, let's show these feckers we mean business. When a decision goes against us, I want you all round the referee complaining, in his face. Feck the FA, Feck the League.' Cause if it doesn't go your way now. Next time it will. That's the way I used to play, make the Ref second guess. Great teams don't rely on good fortune.

I don't see that under our current manager, what I do see is players being told they are better than they are, without the performances to back it up. In my opinion, he's never going to cut it as a premier league manager. Primarily because he's easy feed, I admire his principles however, just like every manager in the premier league, I'd wanna play Everton every week. But fair play to you Ernie, if you think we're gonna be top 4 or title contenders in 2 years time, I hope your right. But don't be surprised if us ol' bastards like me, tell you're dead wrong.

Andy Walker
204 Posted 30/01/2016 at 07:30:06
Colin (#150). You are correct; it was BK who quoted that Martinez had promised Champions League football. Question is: Who do you believe, BK or RM? Not a nice choice to make but one of them is telling porkies.
Paul Ellam
205 Posted 30/01/2016 at 07:42:27
"We are not underachieving" – Yes. Yes we are. This squad of players should be capable of getting top 6 and even above in my opinion.

However, there are a lot of clubs saying the same thing and usually we don't have the likes of Leicester, West Ham, Watford, Stoke etc sitting in the top ten. Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea – they are all underachieving too. In fact, the only teams really doing what is expected of them is Arsenal, Tottenham and Man City!

Times are changing, for the better of the Premier League, but perhaps not for Everton as we have now have more competition than ever for those top 6 spots.

Paul Andrews
206 Posted 30/01/2016 at 07:55:08

Martinez was clearly embarrassed when soft lad made the statement "He has promised us Champions League". Another spin from Kenwright.

Andy Walker, in response to your question in post #180, if Uncle Bill told me 2 + 2 = 4, I would check it on a calculator.

Aidan Wade
207 Posted 30/01/2016 at 07:55:09
Not under achieving... so Roberto has just told us that 12th is our level. Sooner gone the better... we're already half way to Wigan. Act now or the transformation will be complete.

I think Bill is seriously ill and unlikely to be up to finding a replacement. Best thing will be a takeover. Under new ownership, Martinez and crew will be ejected so fast he'll leave his brown shoes behind.

I hope whoever replaces Bobby (and I have no names in mind) has a shade more pragmatism. All the great managers have let their teams attack but they knew when it was time to play smart.

Gary Edwards
208 Posted 30/01/2016 at 09:30:26
Every morning I scour the net hoping to read that Martinez has been sacked. My heart sinks further with every new media release.

I truly fear for this great club under Martinez's stewardship. We're in a downward spiral and I see no effort to stop it. So, so disillusioned.

Tony Abrahams
209 Posted 30/01/2016 at 09:36:23
Darren, one thing you can never be accused of, is not saying it how you feel. A lot of people say they never liked Martinez, but none of them gave a more detailed account than yourself, why he would fail last year.

I would love to agree with you Darren, and I obviously hope you win brewsties, but after what I witnessed the other night, then long term I want him gone.

Best thing about your posts to me though Darren, is it's never personal, (unless your dealing with idiots) and the one thing that shines through is you just love Everton.

Good point about Leicester, and I hope you're right, but they work so much harder for each other than we do. Maybe a clever new manager might see this, if indeed Martinez doesn't improve.

Dave Abrahams
210 Posted 30/01/2016 at 09:53:19
Got agree with Jack Mason, if Bobby listens to the criticism and changes his position on tactics etc. then I will give him more time, but he has shown no inclination to change and start to learn from his obvious mistakes.

Can he change, is he willing to? Don't hold up much hope.

Brian Porter
211 Posted 30/01/2016 at 09:54:37
Me too, Gary (#183). First thing every day I look for the same news, without success. I've supported Everton for 57 years, and will be 63 next month.

The only birthday present I really want is the news that Martinez is no longer our manager. His refusal to change or adapt his failing tactics, his perpetual selection of his obvious favourites, continued failure to admit thing are going wrong in defence or doing anything to sort it out, baffling substitutions, when he can be bothered to make them before the 80th minute, and inane ramblings such as this latest outburst about underachieving, his,refusal to replace Naismith who shouldn't have been sold in the first place, adds up to a pretty impressive litany of reasons to get rid of this amateurish, inadequate failure. Managers like Harry Catterick and Howard Kendall must be turning in their graves. They were REAL managers who put the team and the club before 'philosophy' or personal favourites.

I well remember the 1966 FA Cup Final, when Catterick shocked everyone by leaving fans favourite out of the team for the final, instead selecting Mike Trebilcock (pronounced Trebilco) for those who don't know him. Trebilcock was in effect a reserve who's recently joined us from Plymouth, and oddly reminded me of Steven Naismith. Catterick simply said Pickering wasn't fit enough and that was that.

There were no subs in those days so the manager had to stand by his team selection for 90 minutes. Of course Mike Trebilcock wrote himself into Everton folklore by scoring twice to bring us level after Sheffield Wednesday took a two goal lead, before Derek Temple scored the winner. Could you imagine Martinez having the courage to do something like that? I think not.

Stuart Vine
212 Posted 30/01/2016 at 09:58:35
OK. That does it for me. Up until now I have been prepared to overlook our woeful defending and focus on how well (on occasions) we play in attack. I have lived with the hope that at some time Martinez would figure out how to balance his "Total Football" with a modicum of reality that the defence has a primary role – Defence!

I look at the team sheet and like many others believe we have the best squad that has been at Goodison since the '80s. We are being out performed by teams that would dream of a line-up like ours. Managers like Koeman, Sanchez Flores, Ranieri, Pochetino, Bilic and even Pardew and Hughes understand that you have to get results and are making Martinez look inept.

This season was a chance to shine – Chelsea imploded, both Manc clubs are under performing, RS have been poor. Only Arsenal and Spurs have been playing to their true potential. Leicester, Watford, Stoke, West Ham, Palace and Southampton have grabbed their chance and we by all accounts are not (according to our manager) under performing! Martinez is right and the thousands of supporters, TV pundits and journalists are wrong...

Delusional, arrogant and insulting to the fans and that alone makes him unfit to manage this great club. We have had some poor managers in the past but they had the honesty and temerity to know when it was gong wrong and did not insult the fan base with drivel. That alone is enough without his obvious lack of tactical nouse.

Amit Vithlani
213 Posted 30/01/2016 at 10:04:06
Darren #150; 167. 18 wins out of 61 is not a bad run... it is a deep-seated malaise. Ending this bad run will take more than good luck, as it requires fundamental issues to be addressed.

There is an element of delusion if Martinez claims to the press that we are not underachieving as either (1) he believes we are nothing more than lower mid-table, which would be delusional his part; or (2) he thinks this is a transient phase.

Again, an element of delusion on his part since the team's problems are deep seated, as we are consistently poor defensively, lacking in stamina and unable to beat teams which set up to stifle our attacking threat (ie the majority).

Tony Abrahams
214 Posted 30/01/2016 at 10:12:25
Dave 185, if Bobby listens to criticism then I hope that most of Everton's senior players were banging on his door on Thursday morning.

I keep going on about it, but the decision to bring on Kone, was possibly the worst sub, I have ever seen watching Everton, and if the players don't tell the manager that he totally fucked up, then he won't have to change anything.

Bobby Robson nearly took England to a World Cup final, but he only changed during that tournament because the players told him he had to.

Let's see how much the players care now.

Phil Sammon
216 Posted 30/01/2016 at 10:20:05
Complete overreaction there Tony.

If you remember we were being battered before Kone came on. I'm no fan of his but those subs stopped the tide, albeit only temporarily.

The whole City game in general wasn't too bad. When judging RM we need to look at the bigger picture...and that is very damning.

John Hughes
218 Posted 30/01/2016 at 10:46:06
Brian Porter, if I remember correctly it was the BBC and Kenneth Wolstenholme that decided it was 'Trebilecoe' because 'Trebilcock' was too near what the Evertonians called him #150; Mike Threedicks, we was really quite ribald back in the day!
Chris James
219 Posted 30/01/2016 at 10:46:16
If there was a clearer reason of why Martinez needs to go then I haven't seen it. This article is outright delusional.

1. This is not a 'new' team, we've had continuity of players more than pretty much any club in the league with a core reaching back 4-5 seasons at least and Martinex players 2-3.

2. Due to our performance this season this team will not be together next year. There's literally no chance Lukaku and Stones will sit through another transfer window without trophies or Europe or even any realistic belief we are on the verge of progress.

3. Even if those players do stay, there's going to be a whole host that need replacing. Howard is pretty much done, Osman, Barry and Pienaar are on their last legs, Baines and Jags will likely drop off. Yes we have some youth talent, but we'll need to bring in a whole lot more.

4. Also, exactly how great is our squad really. Up front we have one top class striker and then Kone. We have 2 good wingers (Del + Mirallas) and then McGeady, Lennon and Oviedo. If Barkley goes who's the creative attacking midfielder Cleverly? Left back we have depth admittedly, but not on the other side. Generally I can see a summer where we get a ton of cash, lose a couple of stars, see old players let go and end up shipping in a lot of dross because who will want to come and play for a mid-table at best team with a mental manager.

5. We're NOT closing in on the top 4, we are in every demonstrable way going backwards. Martinez inherited a side from Moyes that would challenge for the top 6 pretty much every season and had actually secured one top 4 slot. In his first year we seemed to go a step forwards, securing 5th and a highest points total. Last year we slipped to 11th (and only that was secured by a great last run of games), this year we're 12th and on a terrible run of form at precisely the time we were told we'd hit our stride. The only reason we probably won't end up in a relegation battle is the number of truly woeful sides below us.

6. We are unable to deliver an even performance in a single game. Usually it's great first half followed by dour second half. This suggests a fundamental problem either in tactics (i.e. opposing managers out-think us by adjusting), fitness (i.e. we fade badly) or motivation (i.e. whatever is said at half time actively contributes to a poor performance). Personally I think it's a but if all 3.

7. This is the most open league in living memory and teams like Spurs, West Ham, Leicester and even Watford are managing to seize the opportunity to progress.
We can't defend for toffee, we lack players with big-game winning mentality who fold when the chips are down, we have a decent first team but a weak squad behind it and our manager makes crazy subs and is continually out-thought tactically and who ultimately believes the style of football and ideology matters more than the results.

Ultimately Robbie may be 'the first one' who believes there's success lying at the end of this approach, but he's also pretty much the only one to believe it. As I've said many times I think he's a step backward from Moyes and has destroyed much of the good work DM put in place. We can't bring Davey back (never works going back) but we must be able to find someone better than this.

Kim Vivian
220 Posted 30/01/2016 at 10:51:03
Darren@167 #150; the best post on this thread by a country mile. I have been 'into' football for about 45 years and have been involved either playing or coaching at a very amateur level for a reasonable number of those years.

I am, like you seem to be, optimist rather than deluded and I continue to struggle to really believe that with the squad we have and with the GOOD things that RM has done we are not on the cusp #150; I have said it before.

I also said earlier on this thread that who can say we are not about to 'do a Leicester'. I am also surprised at their consistency this season and expected them to go int free-fall from the back end of last year when their fixtures were (on paper) looking tougher.

Sure they have changed managers and Ranieri was a canny appointment but I do not accept that ditching RM at this point will have that same desired effect. I do not expect us to get into a serious survival fight this year and think that RM should at least see the season out unless a serious heavyweight contender comes into the frame. And by that I mean a Jose or even Rafa. One name I never see mentioned is Julen Lopetegui #150; consistently over 2 points per match average, most recently with Porto.

Sure I recognise the BAD, and particularly the catastrophe that our defence has become but for the most part it is the same defence that was the backbone of the recent 'fortress' years. And I only see Funes Mori as an improvement to that.

I have also said before that a high calibre sports psychologist vis a vis Steve Peters. Read this link ad read EFC into it...

Perhaps that's what we need more than a new manager. And someone to sort the defence out.

Dave Lynch
221 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:01:50
To coin another well known psychiatric phrase.

"He makes as much sense as a bottle of crisps."

Like all desperate men, he's starting to go on the defensive but, unfortunately for Bobby, his record is all but laid bare for everyone to see and scrutinise.

Stewart Lowe
223 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:16:23
We have to remember that Martinez is a qualified Physiotherapist and that is a very difficult degree to achieve. This is why he is so articulate with his words and is able to flannel the fans and media with politician answers, because he is intelligent enough to do this.

I will be honest and say that I loved listening to Martinez when he first join us as I thought it made a refreshing change to have a Manager that was not only an ex-footballer but someone who was very intellectually sound, so believed that the two combined could make for a very astute Manager.

However, he has used this astuteness to his advantage many many times when having to talk his way out of bad performances. It's taken a long time for the media to see through his articulate use of language and making things seem a lot rosier than they really are, but his incapabilities / inabilities / politician answers are starting to become repetitive and more obvious to the so-called lay-people out there.

Iain Johnston
224 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:21:53
I was speechless watching his press conference yesterday and, as always, there is nothing for me to say which hasn't been posted already.

He must be shown the door rapidly, in my opinion his was always a lazy appointment by a man who can wax just as lyrically but, as most, I was willing to give him the opportunity to prove me wrong. For me the Jelavic sale was enough, at the time our only 1st team permanent striker was allowed to leave for his own benefit and not ours with no sign of a replacement, sound familiar? I'd still rather have him on the bench than Kone...

Is this "Everton don't sack managers" a new myth? In my 38 years of standing & sitting in Goodison I can only think of two who haven't been given their marching orders or left by "mutual consent".

Howard Mk I and Moyes.

Eivind Nyhus
225 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:30:45
Sounds like a man trying to save hos job. He really needs to turn things around and climb up the table these next months, or he should absolutley be sacked at the end of the season.
Iain Johnston
226 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:38:32
Stewart (#198). Having a Bachelors degree in Physiotherapy does not mean he's a qualified Physio. There's no evidence of his medical pre-registration which comes after and is more important... I also doubt that he's current as there's also no evidence of any ongoing medical training, again a requirement... It was over 20 years ago after all.

I'm married to a Consultant and believe me mate, you wouldn't give half of her colleagues houseroom. They do have a few things in common though, no common sense, a one-dimensional mind and arrogance...

Rob Baker
227 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:50:12
I just want to wake up and read on BBC sport that he has been sacked. I've supported this club for 31 years and I am at the point where I no longer care about the next game as I know it will bring disappointment. I'm sick of reading the shite that spouts out of gob. He is such an ignorant prick.
Brent Stephens
228 Posted 30/01/2016 at 11:59:06
William (#177) #150; good post.

Eugene (#164) #150; sorry for sounding like the proverbial head prefect! Sat here this morning in my short pants and head prefect's cap, waiting for the flak... think I'll get changed and hand over to Ernie (#169)

(Ernie, you've been promoted).

Stewart Lowe
229 Posted 30/01/2016 at 12:00:33
Iain (#201): I have a knowledge of this as I studied Physiotherapy for 4 years in Birmingham, so know very much about the subject. However, my point has nothing to do with his current experience as a Physiotherapist and nor how he may not have continued the professional development required to stay qualified.

My point is that Martinez being able to achieve a Bachelor's degree in Physiotherapy means we should not be surprised that he has the intelligence to hoodwink us the fans and the media by his choice of vocabulary that can rose the darkest of situations.

When he first took over as Manager and conducted his first pre-match conference and lavishly sprayed out words like "phenomenal" "Incredible" "unique" "special" "exceptional" "outstanding" "know how". In all honesty, I was blown away, as not only were he telling Everton fans that we were going to be in the Champions League but he associated these articulate words with my team.

This interview was 17 minutes long. This had also come at a time that we had been used to a David Moyes pre-match press conference lasting no more than 5-6 minutes and always looked like he never really wanted to be there.

2.5 years on and Martinez is still cranking out the 14-17 minute press conferences of what we now know to be utter drivel and flannel. Even the so-called lay people are coming round to this and for me there is no way back.

Nick Entwistle
230 Posted 30/01/2016 at 12:26:05
There are no tanks in Baghdad. There are no tanks in Baghdad.
Ray Robinson
231 Posted 30/01/2016 at 12:48:24
Dave (#196),

"Like all desperate men he's starting to go on the defensive..."

Shame his team can't do likewise when required.

Ray Said
232 Posted 30/01/2016 at 12:50:22
I am very glad to hear that RM has a degree in Physiotherapy. Hopefully the board will now move him to such a post in line with his qualifications?
Karl Parsons
233 Posted 30/01/2016 at 13:40:37
The fact that this beaut is trying to convince us that this is all part of the masterplan is the worst bit for me.

Surely if we are gearing for greatness in the future it will be with the same players that are currently being moulded in his likeness to achieve said ambition.

"What happens when they all fuck off this Summer, and we then have to start again Boss?"

Miles Jordan
234 Posted 30/01/2016 at 13:56:55
Whilst I agree that Martinez is totally out of his depth, I can't help but think that Kenwright and the Board are getting off lightly by keeping their heads down. After all, if I'd appointed an idiot to my organisation, I'd expect ultimately to carry the can.

Regarding strategy, I think some of us may be missing the point. Roberto's is to hang on to our best players and it's working perfectly. No-one will want any of them soon. It's sheer genius!!!

Paul Setter
235 Posted 30/01/2016 at 14:11:27
Idiot... I would rather have Rodgers, Bentiez, LVG, Dowie, Mad Mick McCarthy, Redknapp... and any other crap manager than this buffoon. He offers absolutely nothing.

Liverpool sacked both Brenda and Fatboy for achieving more than this idiot yet we belittle both managers.

Any other club and he would be well out of here.

Trevor Peers
236 Posted 30/01/2016 at 14:13:37
We're well on the way to hitting Roberto's target of 33 points, so I guess he has a point...
Tony Abrahams
237 Posted 30/01/2016 at 14:35:16
Phil Sammon, a complete over reaction? City were the better team but We were not getting over run, and they still had to score two goals to win the match.

If he wanted us to get hold of the ball, why not bring Lukaku off and keep our shape the same way?

Gerry was tired again, but at least with PACE on the pitch, we would have still been able to play on the counter, which is something we were doing quite well.

We have a centre-half, playing fullback, and the minute we put on Kone to push up alongside Lukaku, we left him exposed to Sterling's pace.

City score again, we panicked because we had no pace in which to get after them anymore and a big hole down our right for them to exploit.

So if you think that was an over reaction, Phil, I'm surprised, because our manager completely broke something that didn't need fixing. It was an ill-thought-out ploy, and the only sad thing left to say was who wasn't surprised that it never back fired?

Phil, there is an old saying in football when teams are under the cosh, and the saying is "KEEP YOUR SHAPE". Martinez completely destroyed ours the other night when he decided to bring on Kone.

Marlan Govender
238 Posted 30/01/2016 at 14:35:55
Bobby's definition of underachieving: "failing to do well as expected".... so my question to you is where are over achieving?

Osman bossing the midfield in the last game?? Stones and Howard dictating play from the back?? Baines's pinpoint corners? The impact of the non-playing Mirallas. Time you saw Mr Klopps optometrist cos you need flippin' glasses!!!!!

Ray Robinson
239 Posted 30/01/2016 at 14:59:43
Martinez's big mistake was not in taking Deulofeu off (he was totally knackered – how can a professional footballer be as goosed as he was?) – it was not bringing on Lennon.

And he should have started with Coleman – even if it meant dropping Stones.

Ian Riley
240 Posted 30/01/2016 at 15:27:59
A big thank you to Paul Merson on Gillette Soccer Saturday. An Everton fan of many years, I could not have put it better. Everything he said was right and funny with it!

Our defending, Martinez's post match interviews and league position. The only pundit willing to tell it the way it is!

I can now cancel my appointment with the psychologist. It's not my imagination!! Thanks Paul!!

Stephen Brown
241 Posted 30/01/2016 at 15:42:13
Ian (#219) – what did Merson say exactly?
Lennart Hylén
242 Posted 30/01/2016 at 15:54:19
If Everton is not under-achieving then this is what we can expect. The current league position reflects what the current players can achieve under his management. Then I think that Mr Martinez should resign because at least I am not satisfied with this.
Brian Porter
243 Posted 30/01/2016 at 16:11:26
John Hughes #201, if you read Mike Trebilcock's book, you'll read in his own words that the Cornish pronunciation of his name is Trebilcoo. Wolstenholme and Co at the BBC were told that but in fact if you watch the game on DVD, you'll hear him called Trebilcoe all through the match. So they got it wrong when they could have got it right, as they were so intent on avoiding any sort of embarrassment.
Mark Rimmer
244 Posted 30/01/2016 at 16:45:54
Not sure if anyone's posted this yet but it pretty much sums it up:

Phil Walling
245 Posted 30/01/2016 at 16:52:29
Merson has always been a clown but today he brought the Big Top down with his Everton rant that had his fellow panellists wrapt.

Loved every minute of it and everything said bang on the button. Brill!!

Ray Robinson
246 Posted 30/01/2016 at 17:17:42
Wow! If Merson and Collymore can see what's happening, why can't our Board? Merson may be a clown but he's not as daft as it seems.
Ray Jacques
247 Posted 30/01/2016 at 17:18:35
All please watch the Paul Merson clip, brilliant.
James Flynn
248 Posted 30/01/2016 at 17:21:01
The "Men in Black" thing was funny.
Dennis Ng
249 Posted 30/01/2016 at 17:26:25
His comment on Leicester is quite interesting as well. And quite true given the international players we have.
John Hughes
250 Posted 30/01/2016 at 17:56:44
Okay, Brian, I accept that was the correct pronunciation but to us Trebilcock became you know what – we weren't too PC in the 60s.

But whatever, he did what Harry Catterick wanted when he left the favourite Fred Pickering out of the team as you correctly stated and we won the Cup! Mr Catterick had no favourites, pity this fellah now didn't.

Iain Johnston
251 Posted 30/01/2016 at 18:07:01
Stewart (#216). Yes, you're spot on there.
Stephen Brown
252 Posted 30/01/2016 at 18:19:35
Merson for manager!! Classic clip.
Gary Mortimer
254 Posted 30/01/2016 at 18:37:16
Tony @224

Your comment about keeping the shape is, alongside the lack of deadball training, fitness training, defensive training, another failure in RM's philosophy.

Whenever something unexpected happens and the last 30 minutes of every game, our formation goes haywire – with massive holes in the middle of the park, fullbacks playing ahead of the wingers and Lukaku in an offside position. There is no discipline whatsoever.

Mike Hughes
255 Posted 30/01/2016 at 19:07:52
That Paul Merson clip was worth watching (once). I just wish he was talking about our loathsome neighbours rather than us. Then I could have laughed along with it.

I can't stand EFC being the butt of jokes, particularly with that bigoted, smug knob Thompson sitting there.

It illustrates a shift in the media though. Only a few weeks ago they were waxing lyrical about our football (usually in a game we did not win). I hated that as well. Who cares about pleasing the neutrals or pundits?

Looks like RM is being well and truly found out, something many of us on here have known for some time (at least a year in my case after that WBA home draw last January).

(By the way, the current TW poll shows approximately 75% want RM out of the door. I think a similar poll was conducted some months ago. It would be interesting to compare the trend in opinion. Also, can only those who are registered on TW vote? I mention this because judging by the written posts, it's hard to find 25% who seem to support him.)

Colin Glassar
256 Posted 30/01/2016 at 19:13:17
Once the pundits, and the media, get their teeth into a manager, that normally means he's doomed. Pity they've completely blanked BK and his mob all these years...
Tony Hill
257 Posted 30/01/2016 at 19:50:37
If we lose against Newcastle and Stoke, I think the pressure on him will be too much surely, even for our invisible Board. A defeat tomorrow would also obviously be bad news but the next two PL games are massive for Martinez (I want him out immediately like most on here, I should add).
Michael Polley
258 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:07:20
Darren (55) I'm impressed by your optimism, and I hope you are right. Keep the faith I suppose, but it's difficult with that Spainish Clown in charge.
Russ Quinlan
259 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:07:49
"In my eyes we have one of the most competitive squads in the league with four or five players with the best potential in Europe and that has been down to a clear strategy."


Not when half of the buggers leave in the summer due to us finishing the season with nothing again.

David Hallwood
260 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:10:03
Okay, we know Paul Merson comes out with some shite but this is bang on!
Ross Edwards
261 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:20:29
I fear for his mental state if he truly believes this. His delusion is frightening and is detached from reality, almost like he's living in a parallel universe.

How can he seriously kid us into believing that we're progressing? We're potentially facing back to back bottom half finishes. That is not progression, that is regression and we're going backwards.

We should be expecting to beat Carlisle comfortably tomorrow. If we lose he's finished in my view. Then it's Newcastle on Wednesday. A massive game. Must win.

Brian Porter
262 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:26:57
John Hughes #236. I was at Wembley with my Dad in 1966, my first Wembley Final. I was 13 at the time and have never forgotten the whole experience. In fact I got my wife to buy me a replica '66 shirt for Christmas and couldn't resist having number 8 TREBILCOCK on the back. Who cares that they didn't have names on shirts back then, it's certainly proving to be a tea-time talking-point today... ha ha.
Bill Gall
263 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:30:45
John it was the correct pronunciation as I spoke to him quite a few times including a couple of days after the cup final and he said his name was pronounced 'Trebilco' with the 'ck' being silent. He came in to the Broadway in Norris Green on occasions and you were always able to talk to him.
Winston Williamson
264 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:55:22
David Hallwood... true and very funny, especially the MIB reference and Merson getting sacked for less at Walsall!
Kevin Naylor
265 Posted 30/01/2016 at 20:58:58
I think what Merson was alluding to is something we've all know for quite a while – that Martinez is a first-class bluffer.
Phil Walling
266 Posted 30/01/2016 at 21:05:17
On the only occasion I met and spoke with Ken Wolstenholme, he referred to our hero as 'Thrice Blessed'. Seemed appropriate in more ways than one!

And Mike @ 240, loosen up, wilyus! We've moaned for years that the Sky mob ignore us and when they don't, you moan. If we can't smile at our own misfortune, we are truly doomed!

Andy Crooks
267 Posted 30/01/2016 at 21:28:15
Really good stuff from Paul Merson. Martinez is becoming a figure of fun. We have a laughing stock as our coach. Worse than ineptitude is being an embarrassment, and he is.

I have been angry at past managers, frustrated, outraged but Martinez is the first that I have ever been ashamed of.

Anthony Jones
268 Posted 30/01/2016 at 22:15:46
Brent (#169): Are you a wind-up merchant? I mentioned Roberto's reluctance to drop Barry, who has clearly been jaded at certain points this season, as an example of how Everton are not simply a young, developing squad. Howard may have been a better example of this.

Anyway, the rest of my post stands regardless of your bizarre nitpicking.

Tony Hill
269 Posted 30/01/2016 at 22:19:15
There's an interesting interview with Ryan Ledson in one of the local Cambridge newspapers (he seems to be doing well there, I'm pleased to say) to which I would link if I were not so inept. He's glowing about Martinez.

That's what's so infuriating: RM actually has much to commend him in my view with some of his recruitment and in his aim to develop our youth and in his overall manner which I thought was properly Evertonian when he arrived and for most of his first season.

Alas, time has shown that he just can't manage the first team competently; a rather fundamental deficiency of course.

John Hazlewood
270 Posted 30/01/2016 at 22:26:32
Hi Bill #248, great to hear you mention meeting Everton greats in the Broadway, Norris Green.

Did you know my Dad, Jack Hazlewood?

Ray Griffin
271 Posted 30/01/2016 at 22:54:41
Let's be absolutely clear about one thing – RM hasn't got a remote idea about how defending works. Defending is an art that requires specific skills like having insight into what attackers are going to do next.

The best ones develop such an understanding of the game that it seems like they have a sort of telepathy to know what is going to happen next, Bobby Moore & Paul McGrath being two outstanding examples. RM will never grasp the importance of this; instead, he talks up John Stones as being the new Beckenbauer & this young man believes it.

He's a bad influence on him – Paul Merson called it absolutely right today on Soccer Saturday, watch it!

Colin Glassar
272 Posted 30/01/2016 at 23:02:49
According to Ossie we used to overachieve and now, apparently, we underachieve. The times they are a changing.
Eric Holland
273 Posted 30/01/2016 at 23:24:09
Merson on a rant about John Stones and Martinez got to agree with him.

Eric Holland
274 Posted 30/01/2016 at 23:25:35
David #245 beat me to it.
Peter Murray
275 Posted 30/01/2016 at 23:49:31
Chris Leyland (#168).

I’m not talking "bullshit". You’re getting confused with "realism". No great team was ever built overnight. The Man Utd teams of Ferguson, the Liverpool teams of Shankly et al, and I would include the Everton teams of Catterick and Kendall, all took time and patience.

Certain teams like Chelsea and Man City have had billions poured into them ensuring progress (although Chelsea have blown it this season).

But they are not great teams. Nor will they ever be. They should have been up there with Barcelona and Real Madrid for years now. And they will never reach that level because they have no infrastructure of youth development.

Mark Anderson.
You call this a "debate"! Actually it’s an elongated diatribe, reminiscent of the vitriol thrown at Moyes in the last 2 years of his tenure, and even more so for up to a year after he left. Plus ça change.

Hope to see you all at Carlisle.

Ernie Baywood
276 Posted 31/01/2016 at 02:03:37
Jack Mason, just in case you do come back to the thread. I absolutely do not think we'll be top 4 in 2 years' time under Martinez. What you've done there is assume anyone who doesn't abuse the shit out of him must support him.

Some of us (it's probably the vast majority outside of internet personalities) would rather discuss individual points rather than just shout 'lunatic'/'madman' etc. Imagine talking in the pub with someone like that?

For me, it couldn't be further from the truth anyway. I didn't want him from the start. Early on, I figured one of his first jobs was to regenerate our defence – a task for which he has zero credibility. In fact at that point, his defensive reinforcements were Robles and Alcaraz.

I've even posted on this thread that, while I agree these players will improve, I've no confidence Martinez will.

I'll give him credit for the fact we have some good young players running around in blue. Some of them are going to have great careers and will thank Roberto for their opportunities. But I don't believe he'll ever get the best results from them and the evidence for that is what we are seeing right now. This team is under-performing... while Roberto continues to promise us jam tomorrow.

Jack Mason
277 Posted 31/01/2016 at 02:33:30
Seems like a balanced post to me Ernie. Although I'd like to point out I don't assume anything about you mate. I just don't like to see people having a go at fellow Evertonians for expressing their opinions, from fans or the manager. It is a forum after all. Of course, if I misread your post I apologize.
William Cartwright
278 Posted 31/01/2016 at 03:26:38
Roberto will never come out and openly criticize his players. That's part of his philosophy. I accept that.

He sees hitting the woodwork 4 times against Norwich as an example of one of those negative things that sometimes happen in life – not an example of under-achieving. I can understand that.

He sees an extensive run of those negative things, related to decisions by referees, as worthy of discussion with Mike Riley, possibly to draw attention to the use of goal-line technology across the full width of the pitch. I can understand that too.

He sees Howard as his No 1 goalkeeper. I used to be able to understand that.

He sees Everton as a long term game plan to recover their self confidence after being hammered into an inferiority complex by a history of failing against the big clubs, most notably the Redshites. I really understand that.

He believes we will achieve it but only his way, by 'suffering and taking the medicine'... I can understand that.

The amount of self-belief, "arrogance" if you will, to follow that route is phenomenal, but I can understand that.

For a football club to invest that much unchecked power in the manager is incredible. I cannot understand that at all.

Jack Mason
279 Posted 31/01/2016 at 04:54:39
Astute William, very astute. I think it was Colin who pointed out on another thread. Maybe Martinez is de facto running the club. If there is a power vacuum, it could be explained that way.

No vote of confidence, the silence from the board, deafening, hands being washed. Maybe they're just waiting for the takeover. Me too, I've been waiting a long, long time.

Lewis Abbott
280 Posted 05/02/2016 at 02:22:13
In case anyone is wondering, the link to the article I posted above (#172) is from FourFouTwo:

Derek Thomas
281 Posted 05/02/2016 at 03:34:53
Sidney City Coach; The aim of course, is to play entertaining, winning football.

But Coaches don't get the sack for not playing entertaining football, they get the sack for not winning enough games.

Derek Thomas
282 Posted 05/02/2016 at 03:34:53
Sidney City Coach; The aim of course, is to play entertaining, winning football.

But Coaches don't get the sack for not playing entertaining football, they get the sack for not winning enough games.

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