Collymore: Martinez is letting down his young stars

25/01/2016  45 Comments  [Jump to last]
The pundit and talkSPORT presenter argues that the Everton boss needs to add pragmatism to his Barca fantasy and address the realities of the Premier League by ironing out the errors and instilling discipline in the likes of Ross Barkley and John Stones.

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Patrick Murphy
1 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:25:31
A decent piece by Stan Collymore which pretty well summarises some of the follies of our manager and younger players.
Steve Carse
2 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:44:51
Collymore, spot on, as he so often is. Good to see the increasing critical media inspection of our manager.
Ray Robinson
3 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:45:41
I didn't think Collymore had it in him to write such a good article. I agree with every word of it!
Denis Richardson
4 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:52:55
Patrick, whilst I've never heard of the place where Colymore made that statement, I have to say I agree almost with every word he says.

Looks like the meeja is also beginning to realise it's all a bit 'emperors new clothes' at Goodison Park.

Good OP as well. I think we may have a change sooner than later...

Lyndon Lloyd
5 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:55:03
If you listen to Collymore on talkSPORT when it comes to Everton, he's very much got his finger on the pulse in questioning why the club is under-achieving on and off the pitch.

He views us like he does his first love, Villa – i.e. as an under-achieving old-fashioned big club – and knows both should be doing better. I can do without his non-football rants on Twitter and his refusal to use the proper "@" reply etiquette so that everyone has to read his responses to individuals but I've got a lot of time for his views as a fan of football as ordinary fans see it.

Mark Gardiner
6 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:05:53
I've never been a fan of Collymore's but that article and his opinions are absolutely spot on.

Martinez's inability to do anything about our obvious problems which include young stars being allowed to do the same thing week in week out is killing this club. His refusal to see our defence making the same mistake every week for two years now is why he needs to go and go now before it's too late.

what also worries me is that Martinez has all of our youth teams playing in the same way so our young players, despite their promise, are being taught the exact same things as the first team squad. We have some good young defenders throughout the club at many levels but what chance do they have of becoming good defenders with this Catalan clown in charge?

Darren Hind
7 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:06:45
Agreed Lyndon

And Patrick and Steve, Ray and Denis.

Colin Glassar
8 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:10:33
It's always a worrying sign when one has to agree with Stan Collymore but it's hard to refute anything he says really.

I hope this very public criticism by people in the media really starts to make an impression on Martinez. The stats are there for all to see and they make for very grim reading. The only way Roberto will start showing some pragmatism is if his employers start to ask some difficult questions but, will they?

If he can combine our attacking play with a solid defence (it's not that hard) then he will have a winning formula but he seems to be blind to this. Like many I'd like to see him bring in a defensive coach e,g. Unsy or David Weir to sort out our talented but clueless defenders.

Ste Traverse
9 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:10:51
I've said it for years, Collymore is one of the best pundits out there, and really knows his stuff regarding our club.

This article is bang on the money.

Rob Hooton
10 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:15:31
Hit the nail on the head, Stan, he certainly knows his football.

The players are being pandered too and held up on pedestals like some love sick pillock and they need to be worked bloody hard if they want to become the best and earn the stupid money they're on.

No more softly softly, they need a kick up the backside and told to look at Jeffers, Rodwell et all to see where it can quickly go if they're not careful...

Danny Broderick
11 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:23:13
Spot on regarding Stones and Barkley. I am all for encouraging them to play football. Go for it, and there will be the odd mistake. But, what we are seeing with Stones now is over playing. He is going to be targeted, because people are cottoning on to what he does. He needs to mix it up. Play if he has time and space, by all means. But when in doubt, get rid.

As for Barkley, there's no end product. He just trots around producing mediocre performances, and gets absolutely lauded to the high heavens by his manager for doing so. He should be playing a lot closer to Lukaku. He shouldn't be content to play one-twos on the half way line. Lukaku was on his own up front all 2nd half yesterday, and we were chasing a goal. We should be using Barkley like Spurs are using Delle Alli. And if he is playing crap, don't sugar coat it – sub him, or drop him. That is part of learning also.

Collymore has this spot on. We keep on being told that everything we have been through is part of a learning process. Yet we don't seem to have learnt a lot.

Rob Halligan
12 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:35:47
Agree with every word Stan says.

Whilst Stones has undoubted ability, there is a time and a place for him to play his fancy football. Should he move this summer, his new manager will soon get this turning back into his own penalty area out of his system.

Just get rid, John. Attack is after all, the best form of defence.

Brian Harrison
13 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:45:29
I posted before the game on Sunday that RM should play Barkley the way Spurs use Delle Alli. But RM has confused Barkley, the kid doesn't have a natural football brain like Rooney, and under RMs guidance the kid has gone backwards.

He is a forward not a midfield player yet I hear he watches dvds of Zidanne. He will never be effective in that role push him 20 yards further forward and let him link up with Lukaku and Deulofeu. Tell him when we are attacking get close to Lukaku also gamble that Lukaku will win the heading duel so be looking to get on the end of any flick ons.

Also when Lukaku comes deep then you fill his position up top.

I could well imagine if Stones played for SAF what he would have said had Stones attempted a Cruyff turn in his own box. It wouldn't be "oh John keep on playing that way" more like you do that again and you will never play for me again. Its called coaching, and teaching young players the right and wrong things to do.

Colin Glassar
14 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:53:25
So frustrating watching Ross yesterday as several times he looked like he was going to pull the trigger but he always takes an extra touch and misses the opportunity to shoot. Martinez did in fact, publicly, say he wanted Ross to take more chances in front of goal but it doesn't seem to have registered.
Christopher Marston
15 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:55:01
I feel the net is closing in on Roberto and thank god it is too!
Christopher Marston
16 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:56:22
Ross Barkley has too much air between his ears to make it as a top player.
Ian Bennett
17 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:58:15
He's bang on, and in the following is getting my goat:

1) The keeper is garbage. I am coming to the point of hoping we concede a cricket score, to force a decision on the manager or the board;
2) We have no cover at right back;
3) The Bryan Oviedo experiment at right back has to stop now – endless checking inside is even more frustrating than watching Ross checking towards our goal;
4) No cover for Lukaku;
5) The endless injuries;
6) The first half showed that without Besic and McCarthy, no one will close anything down;
7) The side lacks height and gets repeatedly done at set-pieces as Roberto, from an ideological point of view, disagrees with the percentage pass or working on any set-pieces.

I haven't touched the problems with Stones and Barkley, but Collymore is bang on.

Tony Hill
18 Posted 25/01/2016 at 20:23:22
Yes, a good article, though I continue to think that Barkley is simply being played in no-man's-land and is confused as to what he is supposed to be doing. Even so, I think ( Sunday apart), he has had an improved season after last year.

His most exciting moments with us in 2013-14 were actually when he was running brilliantly and incisively from deep ( Arsenal, Swansea, Newcastle away, Man City at home) using his power, pace and ability to shoot with both feet. It was that form that had everyone buzzing and hailing him as a potential great. I am not convinced by him as a number 10.

He needs direction, as Collymore says, but that direction should be to do what he was doing two years ago, with some fine tuning. He'll be all right will Ross, though I am sure a change of regime would bring him on quicker.

David Greenwood
19 Posted 25/01/2016 at 20:33:55
Christopher @16. Garbage. How would you describe Paul Gascoigne?
Ernie Baywood
20 Posted 25/01/2016 at 20:52:14
Article seems a bit lazy to me. Are our problems down to Stones and Barkley making poor decisions?

For me they are reasonable criticisms but the problems are far more systemic than that.

We could blame almost every player at the club for individual errors costing us points. But that gives you the same logical question as last season... Do we really believe that a group of players who performed so well two seasons ago could ALL regress to being poor now?

The game isn't about individuals. Yet Martinez sets us up in a way that allows the opposition to pick us apart, isolate and attack individuals. And disappointingly we do the same as fans.

Last week it was Jags making mistakes. He was on the halfway line with no one but Costa anywhere near him! Not much margin for error there!

Stones on Sunday. Hang on where's his right back? Where is his defensive partner? Yes it's a mistake but there are two Swansea players in support and no blues!

The constant Howard 'blunders'. Yeah he's not great but the guy is left exposed by his defence every week.

Every player makes mistakes. John Stones does the same thing and gets us on the attack and we all applaud. In a team game you're supposed to have cover.

That's why Stones won't look like such a liability when he eventually moves clubs. He'll get away with it like other defenders do because he'll be playing in a team.

Anthony Dwyer
21 Posted 25/01/2016 at 21:45:08
Colin Glassar, I agree completely over Ross. I can't get my head around what Martinez has done to him.

At the start of the season I was massively impressed by Ross, he played much nearer to Rom which bagged him goals and assists.

Since Cleverley has returned to the side Martinez has moved Ross further back into a role suited to Pirlo or Gerrard at the tail end of his career, picking up the ball in front of his defence.

Put Ross further forward and he will kill teams, put him in front of the defence and he's wasted.

Now more than ever the club is in need of a change because Martinez isn't up to this job.

Stats do not lie – 6 wins in the league, 23 played, with THAT squad is criminal .

Christopher Marston
22 Posted 25/01/2016 at 22:09:20
Wasted talent.
Harold Matthews
23 Posted 26/01/2016 at 03:08:16
A talented youngster himself, Collymore trained and played at every level and knows what he's talking about.
Anto Byrne
24 Posted 26/01/2016 at 06:13:15
I have to ask: we have all these old pros behind the scenes – Gibson, Hibbert, Osman... what the fuck do they do in training? How do they justify the money they are on? We do have several kids on the park. Just who is responsible for them?

When Jonny Heitinga and Phil Neville were playing it was a well-organised defence. With Distin and Jags it was always "clear the lines and win the ball up the park with Fellaini."

Yes, it's nice to play from the back but we wait for the other team to take up position and they try to out pass them into submission.
Laurie Hartley
25 Posted 26/01/2016 at 06:17:55
I am a bit down in the dumps at the moment as far as all things Everton is concerned.

One of the worst things for me is what is happening to John Stones. When he broke into the first team, I tipped that he would captain Everton and England one day. I can remember responding to one of my fellow ToffeeWebers who questioned this assertion – "You can see it in his eyes". I believed that.

Watching the replay of the game on Saturday the cameraman did a close up of Stones and all I saw in his eyes was sadness. It made me feel awful.

I still had plenty of mistakes to make when I was 22. I had the privilege of watching the Everton Legend Brian Labone in his pomp – a very, very good centre half. During that period there were a couple of centre halves who I particularly disliked – Ron Yeats and Jack Charlton. Three very different types of players but all top internationals who were major cogs in 3 very successful teams of the era.

I wish I could put John Stones with Jack Charlton for a months personal coaching – we would see him flourish. I have come to realise that centre halves aren't meant to be popular –– there is a reason for that - they have a particular job to do.

Here is a link to an interview with Jack Charlton. About 5:30 minutes in he talks about an argument he had with Don Revie about how he should be performing his role as centre half in the team. I was surprised to hear Don Revie's response to Charlton. I could never imagine our manager responding in the same way. If you have 7 or 8 minutes to spare it's worth a listen. Interestingly it talks about a move to Man Utd that didn't come off. Link

A month with Bobby Charlton wouldn't do young Ross any harm either.

Darren Hind
26 Posted 26/01/2016 at 06:55:05
Not much wrong with John Stones that a break from headlines screaming that he is the most sort after player on the planet wouldn't cure.

Ask yourself: Where would your head be on the morning of the Swansea game, you woke up to read Barca, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Man City where in a four-way battle for your signature-?

He still a very young man and will not reach his peak for 5-6 years

Brian Porter
27 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:46:52
I listened to Collymore on Talk Sport on Saturday and he came across as someone with a deep regard for Everton and our history as a big club and his sadness at our demise into mediocrity was evident and genuine to anyone listening. His article is bang on and perhaps if a few more media pundits were to get on Martinez's case the board might begin to realise just how far we've sunk under Martinez, and how perceptions of our of once great club have changed in the real world.

I've just read Leighton Baines's latest interview in which he talks about the top 4 yet again. I blame Martinez for drilling such nonsense into our players' heads at this stage of the season. The plain facts show we are 13 points adrift of the top 4 and only 8 points clear of the bottom 3. Perhaps a reality check is in order, but either way I really don't believe Martinez is the man for the job. He clearly couldn't organise the proverbial piss-up in a brewery, never mind our defence. Get rid, now!

Ray Robinson
28 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:58:07
Martinez adopts a laissez faire attitude and wants his players to learn from their own mistakes. Well you don't allow a young driver out on the roads without first having lessons and then passing a test do you?

Over-indulging players with no attempt to rectify mistakes hardly teaches them anything does it?

By constantly over extolling their (undoubted) talents, he creates an environment where players believe their own publicity and that it's okay to carry on committing the same mistakes. Learning is only possible as long as there is guidance.

Martin Mason
30 Posted 26/01/2016 at 17:43:58
I still can't get over Carragher's use of the word "intensity" and how our languid stars don't have it.

It would do them good to watch Colin Harvey at his best, he could tackle, run through traffic, move the ball around and threaten the opposition goal with a sophisticated intensity that these overpaid modern footballers could only dream about.

Eddie Dunn
31 Posted 26/01/2016 at 18:32:27
Great stuff from Collymore – he's got more sense than many of the media whores.
Peter Murray
32 Posted 26/01/2016 at 22:10:32
Collymore is one of the few worthwhile ex-footballer media pundits. However, he is in a business where it is easy, if not necessary, to dole out criticism on a personal level. And managers are the easiest targets.

A bit more humility is needed. Yes, Stones and Barkley have natural talent which needs harnessing, but, Stan, you had that as well. Do you blame your ultimate failure on a succession of poor managers and coaches? Or ....?
Dave Abrahams
33 Posted 26/01/2016 at 23:12:41
Martin (29) I loved Colin Harvey, great player, he might have threatened the opposite goal quite a lot but didn't succeed very often.

Going on memory I think he scored very few league goals, Although he did score the all-important winner in the semi-final versus Man Utd in 1963.

Laurie Hartley
34 Posted 27/01/2016 at 00:51:55
Dave - I think it was 1966. I was at Burnden Park that day. If my memory serves me correctly MIKE Trebilcock played and gave Nobby Stiles a really tough game.


Listen to the commentator – loved Man Utd to bits – nothing's changed.

Dick Fearon
35 Posted 27/01/2016 at 03:24:41
Dave and Laurie, 32 + 33, It was 1966, I was behind the goal where Harvey's half hit grubber put us through to Wembley.

Dave Abrahams
36 Posted 27/01/2016 at 09:08:59
Yes, of course it was 1966, memory blank there, if I'm not mistaken we lost to a penalty to West Ham in 1963, but had the consolation of winning the league!!!!
Martin Mason
37 Posted 27/01/2016 at 09:42:00
Dave, he scored a few key ones including the night we cliched the league title in 1970 against WBA if I remember right.

I loved Colin Harvey, naturally gifted but a very hard grafter too. Oh to see his like now.

Tony Hill
38 Posted 27/01/2016 at 09:44:36
Yes, he did score the second goal in that game, Martin, and it was a fine one. A superb player.
Michael Polley
39 Posted 27/01/2016 at 10:12:24
It's quite simple: if it's not working – fix it. Don't keep repeating the same things over,and over again.

Can someone hammer that into Martinez's head please!!

Martin Mason
40 Posted 27/01/2016 at 10:47:51
Tony, the other was Alan Whittle if I remember?
Tony Hill
41 Posted 27/01/2016 at 11:52:27
Yes it was. A great night.
Barry Jones
42 Posted 27/01/2016 at 14:44:27
Stop the reminiscing guys, I think I am about to cry. I can just see Alan Ball in his white Hummel boots right now...
Colin Glassar
43 Posted 27/01/2016 at 14:52:32
I had a pair of them Barry. And a white casey as well..
Barry Jones
44 Posted 27/01/2016 at 15:22:15
He was ahead of his time Colin, in many respects. I was always traditional and bought Adidas Copa Mundial. I had a secret yearning for the white boots but my team-mates would have taken the piss in those days.....
Barry Jones
45 Posted 27/01/2016 at 15:44:36
I only just finished playing about three years ago because of a dodgy hip (which I had replaced). My last pair of boots were all white Adidas Predators. It took me all those years to be gutsy or trendy enough to wear white boots.
David Chait
46 Posted 03/02/2016 at 05:45:37
Read this article for the first time. I was sliding to the RM must go and his has confirmed it. Collymore is right! Stones two seasons ago was a brilliant defender with saving tackles, intercepts the works. The footwork was there when he needed it. Now it's the main show.

This is all Martinez. RM is very likeable but he is doing our boys a massive disservice. I honestly believe we have the players to be challenging at the top. And felt we had to keep the likes of Stones for the sake of the club.

Not so sure anymore. What's the point of having these guys with Martinez's massive blind spots hampering his and our success.

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