Everton subject of 200m takeover bid

23/12/2015  284 Comments  [Jump to last]

Has Bill Kenwright finally found buyers for Everton, 16 years after his takeover of the club from Peter Johnson?
An American consortium that includes the former owner of the San Diego Padres baseball team is reportedly undertaking due diligence on Everton's finances with a view to completing a 200m takeover of the club after months of discussions.

The Times and The Telegraph claim that entrepreneurs John Jay Moores and Charles Noell are leading a group of partners that has signed head of terms (agreed,non-binding principles ahead of a final signed agreement) and been granted a six-week period of exclusivity to examine Everton's balance sheet.

If true, it's the most promising prospect of new ownership at Goodison Park in years and would represent the end of Bill Kenwright's lengthy search for investors worthy and capable of taking the Toffees over. Chris Bascombe in The Telegraph suggests that while club insiders are cautious, there is "genuine hope" that the Chairman's pursuit for investment is close to an end.

Meanwhile, Rory Smith, the author of The Times exclusive, tweeted that, while it is difficult to gauge the likelihood of the bid succeeding due to Everton's "complicated financial structure", he had been told by several people outside the club that "the offer is credible and the intent is there".

Moores (top) and Noell (bottom) have been business partners for over two decades

71-year-old Moores, who founded BMC Software in the early 1980s, and Noell, his billionaire co-founder of venture capital firm JMI Equity, apparently discussed taking a 30% stake in Swansea City last year but those negotiations broke down over what the Times attributes to scepticism of foreign ownership among the Welsh club's supporters trust which owns 21% of the club.

Moores, whose net worth is said to be around $730 million (492  million), eventually sold the Padres three years ago after overseeing their move to a new stadium but, coincidentally, he originally bought the Major League Baseball franchise from current Liverpool FC owner, Tom Werner, back in 1994.

According to the reports, a decision over whether the bid for control of Everton, apparently led by JMI Services, another venture capital concern of Moores based in San Diego, will proceed will be made towards the end of January when the period of exclusivity comes to an end.

The news of Moores's approach in Everton comes just days after rumours of serious interest from two other parties, with the name of Chang owner Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi estimated worth of around 10bn being mentioned as a potential suitor.  

Reader Comments (284)

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Rob Halligan
1 Posted 22/12/2015 at 23:49:11
Light at the end of the tunnel?
Gordon Crawford
2 Posted 22/12/2015 at 00:01:12
I hope this is true. Especially since one of the guys looks like Chevy Chase. :)
John Crawley
3 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:11:52
Gordon, personally I hope it's not true. American owners like to squeeze every penny they can out of fans. Look at what's happened in terms of ticket prices etc to Liverpool fans. I know more than a few who've given up going the match because of the increased high prices.
Gordon Crawford
4 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:20:15
The last thing we need is an increase in ticket prices. But I'm hoping that something really positive will come out of this.

Though they seem to be a bit tight for cash, compared to other American owners. 𧺬+ million.

Dave Southword
5 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:21:52
One of them is called John Moores! I don't know if that makes it more on than ever, or it's another windup.

Are the half-season tickets still on sale?

Gordon Crawford
6 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:26:31
I'm not sure Dave. Yeah John Moores, unbelievable. You couldn't write this stuff.
James Flynn
7 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:33:13
Pretty detailed info provided. These guys have money. Did OK with San Diego's baseball team.

Who knows?

Amit Vithlani
8 Posted 23/12/2015 at 04:55:12
Are these reports of a US takeover a wind up? A bloke called John Moores and another called Noell, at Xmas of all times, have signed a Heads of Agreement with BK.

They are not the billionaires we would have hoped for as John Moores is quoted to be worth around £500M.

David Barks
9 Posted 23/12/2015 at 06:06:44
They have a hell of a lot more than $500 million. John Moores himself is worth a lot more than that, and Noell might be worth more.

Moores was able to push through the construction of a beautiful stadium when owner of the Padres in the downtown Gaslamp district. If anyone has ever been, you'll know the location is great. His wealth only dropped back in 2008 because he divorced his wife and had to split his wealth with her. Since then he's rebuilt all he lost and more.

I hope this is true. He got a stadium built in a terribly difficult city to do so in. If you need evidence of this, just look at the fact that San Diego is now losing their NFL team after a decade of failure to get a new stadium agreed to. That's a cash cow that the city is losing. But Moores was able to get a baseball stadium built in prime downtown real estate, as part of a revitalization effort. Exactly what we need.

Ron Marr
10 Posted 23/12/2015 at 06:12:37
Charles Noell is also a dollar Billionaire. Apparently there are additional investors on both sides of the Atlantic.
Tony Hill
11 Posted 23/12/2015 at 06:51:44
I am instinctively sceptical and I don't like the idea of a consortium but let's see where it goes. Even if these people are not in the league of the sheikhs and oligarchs, they may provide some desperately needed dynamism.

But we've been here before so watch and wait.

Tony Draper
13 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:16:50
"... a period of exclusivity to examine Everton's balance sheet ",

*Harp Music*

"Hi Bill a quick question, these 'Other Operating Costs', what would they be exactly ?"


"OK, Bill, wish Jenny a Merry Xmas, we'll be in touch....... No, No, we'll call you."

Craig Heywood
14 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:27:15
I was in San Diego a few weeks ago and had a stadium tour of the ground. Very impressive and right in the heart of the gaslamp quarter.

The area is being regenerated and constantly growing. As mentioned above the NFL franchise has struggled being outside San Diego. It will be interesting to see how this develops...
Colin Glassar
15 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:36:13
Not sure about this tbh.

A) They aren't very rich are they? Not even billionaires, never mind Sheikh Mansoor rich.

B) Like Tony, I'm not too keen on "consortiums". Sounds like the mob to me.

C) I thought the owner of Chang was buying us? Now he's a multi-billionaire.

D) I still believe that Big Bill will mess this up and eventually sell us to Simon Cowell or one of his other showbiz buddies.

E) Whatever happens, this does look like the end for BPB and Sideshow Bob at last.

Gordon Crawford
16 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:45:56
If this is the case, then I hope they redevelop Goodison. I also hope this goes through before the end of the transfer window. Maybe then we can get another striker.
Wes Schmidt
17 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:49:13
Maybe they'll find the Arteta money.
Chris Barnes
18 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:51:45
Good news, hopefully this will take us forward with the new stadium.

I can't help but be worried, as a Blue! Although Bill has certainly had questionable moments in charge, to say the least. Our club, I always felt, would be safe. By that I mean nothing like Portsmouth, Blackburn, Man City under the Thai owner and many more. Despite all their failings, the current board would always just about have us scrapping through, purely depending on the performance of the manager to appease the fans.

With these sorts of take overs none of us know anything about them really and that's what worries me. Everton as a club has a good heart and values, which is rare in this horrible money based premier era (note. see Chelsea). This is something the current board have to take some credit for. I just hope that whatever happens from now on, we can still have a club that's values we can be proud and hope that these guys realise that is one of our main strengths and add to it with good commercial management and a little funding!

Here's to an exciting 2016! Merry Xmas

Craig Bellew
19 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:59:56
What I don't understand is we had a sheikh come calling who wasn't deemed worthy enough to be allowed to take over the club but now we have the ant hill mob ready to take over.

This smacks of desperation and truly has me in the mind set that Bill will now sell to anyone who is willing to stump up the dollar him and his invisible board members are willing to pocket and run with.

I wonder if we will get to see these so called board members as much as we see our current resident American Mr Earl who has been spotted as many times as Lord Lucan it seems during his board membership.

I am with the doubters me as to whether this is a good idea with that word 'consortium' being the key word here as consortiums never seem good IMO. Lets face it though it cant get much worse than our current plight of borrowing off peter (Mr Green) to pay Paul (errrrr Mr Green again – how does that work then)

Two massive regrets us and Bill will take with him from his tenure will be the loss of the Kings Dock stadium and showing the sheikhs down the M62 were the grass is now a whole lot greener for the boys in sky blue.

Jim Bennings
20 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:00:33
Remind me again why I'm just totally not taking this seriously?!

Could it be because every time a transfer window is about to open we always seem to have our attention diverted by either some bullshit takeover fairytale or we have 20 days of "New stadium blueprints" to get excited over!!

Has anyone else noticed this too or is it just me?

Daniel Lawrence
21 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:02:20
And the exclusivity period runs out at the end of the transfer window. Oh well, there's the excuse lined up for this one......
Armando Canaj
22 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:10:40
They look like nice boys.

I wonder if this is why we saw a banner behind a plane at the Leicester game thanking Mr Kenwright.

One thing is for sure, the players will now be giving 100% to win the game up to Jan... That just means focusing for the second half of our games.

Gordon – Agree with you. I would rather see Goodison redeveloped rather then move.

I'd also like to see Mr Kenwright kept on I'm some capacity for a year or two.

But then I'd also like to see ticket prices to stabilise, fan base grow, lose weight and have more hair. World peace is out of reach...


Kunal Desai
23 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:18:10
Half season ticket sales time.
Adam Luszniak
24 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:18:25
The first sniff of any real investment since forever and the response of some on here is that the new guys are not rich enough, and too American, and that the whole thing is just a scam by Kenwright.

Can't we be optimistic? Just for once on here? Just because it's Christmas, can't we say, maybe this might be the injection of cash we all know we need?

No? Fair enough.

Dean Peamum
25 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:23:11
American owners? Probably means Tim Howard will get another contract to play on till he's 50.
Sam Hoare
26 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:30:28
Show me the money!!!!

Been here before many times but why not? Hope it happens though slightly galls me that the owners will walk away with such enormous profit despite never investing much and asking for a price so high it has driven off many potential investors.

Terence Tipler
27 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:51:06
A lot of fans have been hoping for new owners for a long time now. I am not so sure. What are they expecting to change? How will the team benefit? Are they coming to give the manager big transfer funds, or to spend their money on a new stadium?
Ian Brandes
28 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:52:15
Saw a cryptic tweet about this on Saturday night in wake of Goodison defeat.

Also hinted that Bob and co would be immediately replaced with a manager who has Champions League success in credentials.

Good news? Trip to Tyneside may be Bob's last match in charge.. I wish!

Alan Williams
29 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:54:36
This is a disaster waiting to happen – please don't sell to these people, EFC. They buy and sell companies for a living – they don't build companies – they are pure venture capitalists which is fine but you don't want these owning EFC.

EFC needs some big investment in its infrastructure and for it to work the return will be low over a 10-year period; these investors don't do >10-year projects.

They were also looking to buy in to Swansea but it failed; I hope it does here too. We need new owners who will buy into the EFC ethic and invest and love the club for what it is. These buyers aren't interested in EFC – they are looking to buy it for a future sale based on the big TV deal. Squad and new money alone gives you over 𧶀 million so this isn't a good deal for us but it maybe for them.

People need to take off your stupid blinkers when dealing with this subject; your hatred of BK clouds your judgement. We need new owners, agreed... but not any owner that comes along. Simple fact in football is the majority of overseas buyouts fail!!!

Man City and Chelsea have wealth – these are leverage dealings meaning they will post the debt (purchase price) back on to the club; that's one handicap we ca'nt afford if we want to move forward.

I'm more worried now about EFC future than I was yesterday.

Eugene Ruane
30 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:57:07
What would be 'typical Everton' is that we DO get the investment.

That it's all true and that we suddenly become a team with money.

Just as Leicester show you don't need it.


Les Martin
31 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:01:12
I would much rather have American money and owners any day before a Russian with dodgy dealings or an Arab who needs a plaything due to not knowing what toy next to spend his opulence on!

These guys are smart and businessmen who appear to know how to get things done if the San Diego stadium is anything to go by. And you can bet your last pair of undies that Bill will have a clause where he stays on in an advisory oversee position during the transition.

I hope this happens; we need to move on with ownership, ground move and team development and make progress, hopefully this is the catalyst.

Oliver Molloy
32 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:01:48
I also hope it is not true... history shows that American consortiums / owners involved with clubs in our leagues ends in despair most of the time...
They are in for the money.
Dave Abrahams
33 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:11:52
I'm like Thomas, the apostle – when it happens, I'll believe it.
Ian Brandes
34 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:12:41
Eugene (#27),

It is my understanding that Leicester's owners are minted. King Power have a lot more dosh than BK, and probably this American lot too.

Steve Hogan
35 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:16:17
When these guys get their legal team to scrutinise 'the books' at Everton, they'll shit themselves – I guarantee.

Sounds like Bill is desperate to off load and his previous stance of only letting go to the 'right people' mantra has gone out the window.

Craig Heywood
36 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:19:23
I think there are a couple of angles to this.

1. The track record with San Diego Padres is excellent. Not an easy thing to do.

2. Why didn't they takeover Swansea and why weren't we their first choice?

The reality is they're businessmen. I think they see an opportunity to buy a football club in a good place team-wise for a reasonable sum of money. Add to that the increase in PL revenue and the opportunity to increase the value of the football club, with either redevelopment or a move and it looks promising.

I would genuinely hope that Bill wouldn't sell to a consortium that would threaten what we have. It would be nice to hear something from him directly to give the fans some more perspective.

Dave Lynch
37 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:22:34
My feeling on this is that BB is very ill, I hope that's not true, I really do and he does not trust the current board to look after the club when he's gone.

Therefore his parting shot is to sell us and give us a chance.

Duncan McDine
38 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:26:33
Well its not unexpected (following what the Kansas City fella said), but I'm not entirely bothered. It's dawned on me recently that I don't really care too much about anything other than results.
Rick Tarleton
39 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:30:13
In my edition of "The Flying Pig", these Americans are joining the Russian billionaire Ivor Alotov and the Chinese entrepreneur Ikidu Not and they're all for putting lots of money in, buying Stanley Park for a new ground and letting Bill stay as Chairman.
Sounds right to me.
Steavey Buckley
40 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:31:24
The selling price of Everton for 𧶀 million just buys the name. Serious buyers should want access into the global market to sell their products where the Premier League is shown, because 𧶀 million gives little in return, when most of the income from TV, ticket sales and merchandise goes on paying down debts, transfers and salaries.
John Raftery
41 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:32:53
Why would they be interested in buying Everton? Simply because there is huge TV money available, with much more to come, and the club is for sale.

So long as we continue to be competitive and maintain the soul of the club, I don't have a problem with legitimate business people taking over the ownership. We may even see realistic steps taken towards building a new stadium.

I do, however, suspect we will be paying more in real terms for match tickets in the future. If it happens, it would at least bring to an end the uncertainty which has grown in recent years.

Jon Withey
42 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:35:05
I love this idea that owners wouldn't be in it for the money.

Mainly we need an organisation that can bring growth and commercial success. This would involve speculation but of course they'll expect a return.

Derek Thomas
43 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:39:48
...and then fast forward to 20 months or so, Stones and Lukaku etc are sold. The cost of the buyout appears on the balance sheet and 'Other Operating costs' are through the roof.
Eugene Ruane
44 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:45:30
Ian (30) - 'Eugene (#27), It is my understanding that Leicester's owners are minted. King Power have a lot more dosh than BK, and probably this American lot too'.

Possibly, but it's fair to say their current position isn't down to them 'doing a Man City.'

Mike Oates
45 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:51:31
I'm sure the driving force is Bill's illness, he must realise that it's time to sell. If we want to succeed more capital, revenue is required and in today's world that does mean better facilities, more corporate usage, higher prices and all that goes with it.

We desperately need any sort of major investment otherwise the likes of West Ham, Crystal Palace, and probably Leicester will overtake us.

One word of caution, though: it's imperative to get a totally revamped Goodison or more likely a 50-60,000 seater stadium to move forward and American investors I've worked with are horrified at the timescales required in this country to get any major development.

I retired in 2009 after spending the last 4 years trying to get a 𧵎m investment into Kent (US led) and the red tape, local planning rules, health and environmental objections, council and public meetings, Govt input, archeology timescale and greenfield usage just about killed it – and the site is still unused today!!!

Mark Andersson
46 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:00:21
Not going to happen, more bullshit to deflect the recent and soon to be bad results.

New years resolution, laugh in the face of adversity, after all we have no control over anything. Being a Everton fan is like buying a lottery ticket. You just hope one day you're going to win.

Phil Walling
47 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:01:43
Like most other Evertonians, I suspect, it seemed like Xmas had been confused with April Fool's Day when the names of John Moores and Noell were announced as possible bidders!

No doubt those who have been baying for BK to depart will soon be carping at increased prices at Goodison. But you can't have it all ways and these Americans seem to be 'go getters' with a good track record, even if they are in it for the money.

I imagine Bill will become President Emeritus as did Doug Ellis when the Yanks went in to 'boost' the Villa. Lol! But they will probably appoint a Technical Director or some such as a link with the football side. Any names come to mind?

Dan Hollingworth
48 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:02:46
Smacks of half season ticket time, an excuse for when we spend nothing in January and also maybe an element of deflecting away from the team's current poor form. I initially got excited, but looking at it all I remain inclined to be sceptical.

If you go back to the FSG and the "Cheque will be in the bank in the morning", this is nowhere near that stage. So there's a long way to go here with all this.

Derek Knox
49 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:04:59
Gordon @2 I suggest you visit Specsavers, looked more like Lorraine Chase!
Scott Hall
50 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:22:14
Kunal @ 22 - BINGO!

I predict the next takeover story will emerge around May...

Anthony Green
51 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:37:07
According to this article £200M is a good deal:


Andrew Ellams
52 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:40:43
Eugene @ 27, as good as it is to see a club like Leicester being at the top of the tree, I expect to see the normal order of things restored well before May.

A big part of Leicester's success so far this season has been a decent player having the year of his life and good luck to him for it.

Ian McDowell
53 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:43:40
Sounds promising. I am remaining cautious but to have go this far seems likely that its could happen.
Garry Taylor
55 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:59:51
It just pains me to think the current Everton board will get £200m and make an obscene amount of profit on what they have actually put into and done for the club.

Maybe in some dream world, the board will only take £100m and donate the other £100m for the construction of a new stadium / redevelopment of Goodison – something they were unable to achieve whilst in control. This would be some legacy and they would probably even name the stadium after Kenwright.

In reality, £200m to buy the club, £100m for a new stadium and say £50 to 100m to invest in the squad. How are any investors going to get any return on a £400-450m outlay on Everton???

Neil Mulhearn
56 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:02:55
This gives me a really bad feeling. If it is true, and as so many people have already said how many times have we heard something similar, then 𧶀 million cash only buys the current setup.

IMO we then need 𧹈million to buy our own ground – not some deal with the council/tesco/whoever – but something like Spurs are building, smack bang in Stanley Park where we belong.

Then I beleive we need another 𧶀 million investment in the playing squad to take us to the next level – that is 5/6 players at an average of 㾻-20 million, plus wages.

These guys may be putting the cash up front to buy us (or maybe borrowing most of that) and will they then saddle us with debt for the rest?

I'd love to be challenging for cups/Europe but not at the expense of having 𧼐 million of debt attached to the club.

Winston Williamson
57 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:09:28
Well, I can't help but be a little excited and cynical all at once.

Too many false dawns and tired smokescreens lead to cynicism, but with the rumoured ill-health of our Chairman (and majority shareholder), the remarks of other potential suitors and a degree of logic the excitement creeps in.

I was having a rather depressing discussion with my Dad last night about our current form, lack of investment etc and couldn't see a way for any success in the near future!

However, the following morning I read BBC Ceefax (is it still called that) and come onto TW and find this article! I'm choosing to follow the excitement! It is Christmas after all!!

Brian Hennessy
58 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:12:07
Neil, I couldn't care less what our balance sheet looks like, if it mean we can finally challenge for a trophy again.
Winston Williamson
59 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:12:49
Neil 46:
I agree to a point, but does an investor need to do all you mention instantly? Could they not concentrate on the clubs infrastructure to begin with? Then gradual improvements?

Having a business plan and progressive model would be a huge improvement on the current set-up?

Darren Hind
60 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:14:40
San Diego? What's the story??

I can't find a great deal of anything... Where's Patrick Murphy when you need him???

Ernie Baywood
61 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:16:05
Unless it's some ludicrously wealthy sheik or oil bloke then I'm not sure how relevant their cash really is.

It's just an investment, and they'll be hoping for a return.

As supporters we just have to hope that they see performances on the pitch being key to getting a return. Attendance is the only card we have to play.

The current lot haven't done a great job. We want better from the next mob. But I wouldn't be expecting donations to our cause.

Tony J Williams
62 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:17:45
Been here before many times haven't we?

Transfer window opening soon, half-season tickets on sale

What do you know? another rumour that we are about to be bought out!!!

How fucking stupid do these people think we are?

Good job this is my last season going the game for a while, my daughter now takes priority, as she will start to notice that daddy is missing every second weekend....and usually coming home with a cob on.

No 90 minute performances, no excitement.....simply no enjoyment any more. Bored of the whole football scenario and definitely bored sitting in my seat watching the team I love drain every ounce of will from me.

And don't get me fucking started on that plane with the message on Saturday........

Neil Pickering
63 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:18:50
Takeover talk can only mean one thing. Half-season tickets sales are lower than expected.

Heard it all before I'm afraid.Even if it was true, Bill will fuck it up. He could fuck up a cup of coffee.

Peter Howard
64 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:25:34
One of them looks like John Parrot's brother and the other looks like Gordon Lee's love child.

Is Gordon Lee about to be featured on 'Long Lost Family'?

Mark Pierpoint
65 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:31:31
Things are coming to a final conclusion now. Kenwright ain't going to go on forever. With his recent illness he has probably lost the appetite for it, coupled with the fact that there is nothing below him to step up. I think the club is in a vulnerable position without a sale.

On the Americans, this club is crying out for someone with business and commercial acumen. The fact that they have done this in San Diego is a massive plus for me as well. I don't really get the 'they are not billionaires' thing. The money in the Premier League has made that irrelevant now. Every club can generate money, they don't need to rely on handouts. It is a risk, but we have to go at some point, and with Bill's assumed Ill health, for me it must be now.

Kevin Tully
66 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:35:02
"They're only in it for the money"....as the current mob walk away with millions in profit after mortgaging or selling everything that wasn't nailed down.

Kenwright & chums couldn't have done a more "dodgy foreign owner" impression on EFC if they tried FFS! They wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes if they never had BK at the helm, telling porkies about holes in his shoes in the Boys Pen!

Kieran Fitzgerald
67 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:41:41
Neil, the Glaziers completed the buy out of Man Utd because they knew that as a business, Man Utd plc could afford the debt they saddled it with as part of the buy out. Man Utd have several revenue streams that generate millions upon millions each year that could service a debt and still make the club attractive to potential suitors.

Everton's current revenue streams, outside of the TV money, could not afford the debt and there would be no chance of increasing the club's resale value as a result.

There is huge scope for commercial growth in the states. We have complained for years that we haven't done enough to build on American players such as Joe-Max Moore, Brian McBride and Tim Howard. American investors, with all their business contacts over there, could look to develop this.

Thomas Surgenor
68 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:42:10

Is there an AGM coming up? Are they starting early bird season ticket renewals early?

Joe Foster
69 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:43:06
Discovered by the the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means 'a whale's vagina'.

Quote by Ron Burgundy.

Winston Williamson
70 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:49:08
Everton: The American People's Club... I like the sound of that one!
Thomas Surgenor
71 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:50:35
Aha - I've got it, Thanks to Dan #40 for pointing it out.

Are we allowed to spend during a due diligence phase?
Funny that the 6-week period would take us up to the end of the window!

Raymond Fox
72 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:51:41
If we say that they will go through and buy the club, what we don't know is their intentions.

What prompts Americans to buy Everton FC? I just hope they're not asset stripers, we have 2 or 3 players that will fetch tidy sums on the open market for starters. It wouldn't be for the love of the club would it?

That's a very cynical view, I know, but they presumably must think that it's an investment that they can ultimately profit from. If they did sell players they would be shooting themselves in the foot and I doubt they would do that, at least not in the beginning. Someone mentioned that they would get worldwide TV exposure for their other businesses, and that's a good point.

On the other hand, if they recognise that there's great potential in this club and keep our top players and even finance the buying of 3 other top players that we are short of right now, we and they could be going places.

What will they do about the ground? We don't know...

Paul Kelly
73 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:54:26
Kunal @ #22. First thing that went through my head.

But somehow this feels different, haven't our current custodians have more cash than these "two".

Whatever it is and the asking price, we'll wait till Mr Green (not the one out of Reservoir Dogs, if there was one) to decide, but here's the thing, the weirdest case of déjà vu (bullshit) has come over me. Have I been here before?

Deflect the attention from El Bob to new owners. After all... we're doing – not very well.

Bobby Thomas
74 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:02:11
John (#4),

In terms of ticket prices we are a completely different fan base to Liverpool. They have an enormous waiting list and exploited it by raising prices knowing they could still sell out.

Our set of circumstances are different and our pricing reflects that.

Dave Lynch
75 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:08:05
The minute they look at the books and complete their due diligence, they will run back across the pond like one of those lizards that run on water, laughing loudly.

No monies to be spent this transfer window, then... and the investors will vanish like smoke in the wind.

Nick Wall
76 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:11:20
The talks are clearly genuine. The Telegraph for example have spoken to sources at the club and guaged opinion. There are two questions we should be asking:

First, how far advanced are the talks? The Telegraph mention a 'period of exclusivity' but does this mean that Heads of Agreement have been signed as reported elsewhere?

Second, what will the bid mean in relation to future stadium plans, because this is surely the big issue most likely to derail any bid.

Paul Penrose
77 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:11:58
Time to man the barricades.

Bill Kenwright is an absolute saint compared to the shysters:

The Padres Suck - Here's Why

Read it and weep.

Dan O'Brien
78 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:28:53
Paul, I have read that article... let's beware what we wish for!!!
Dave Pritchard
79 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:37:18
So this is why Guardiola has announced he's quitting Bayern in the summer.
Andrew Clare
80 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:41:38
If this is true – and it's a big 'if' – then I hope the sleeping giant that is our beloved club will be re-awakened. A revamped Goodison or a new stadium would rocket the club into a new realm.

I think we are all wary of news like this because of so many false dawns in the past.

James Stewart
81 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:56:22
Hard not to be skeptical how many times have we been here before only to be let down....

However, I would love to see new ambitious owners come in and help us shed the plucky Everton mentality that has been our malaise for years. Fingers crossed they are serious.

Steve Fletcher
82 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:58:17
Rob@1......with a nod to HMHB, hope its not the light of an oncoming train...
John Keating
84 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:04:07
I liked the sound of the Kansas boys better...

At least they were football supporters.

Alan McMillan
85 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:07:52
Sickening to say this... but £492 million is not wealthy enough!! Not compared to the Sheikhs. Being almost rich enough is a very dangerous thing, it could mean overstretching to the point where we do a Leeds.
Dennis Stevens
86 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:09:18
If this proves to be the real deal, at last, & these guys actually know what they're doing - Everton will be the best investment they ever made. This club must be the most gigantic of the sleeping giants & the potential for success & the ensuing financial returns is huge.

If the £200 million is accurate I hope it includes paying off the debts the current Board have loaded onto the club. At least that would be an appropriate trimming of the profit taken by the current incumbents.

Eddie Dunn
87 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:14:53
Now it all makes perfect sense!

These US fellas have been sniffing around for a while, and Blue Bill has instructed Bob that whatever happens on the playing side, it is imperative that Tim Howard plays all Premier League games...

Craig Heywood
88 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:23:17
Looking at what was done with the San Diego Padres, I'd say their plan would be to build a brand new stadium and sell the naming rights (Padres is called the Petco stadium).

As businessmen I'm guessing they'd look to maximise revenue streams and sell for a profit 10-15 years later. The worrying part is will they invest in the playing staff? Only need to look at Bolton wanderers to see a shiny new stadium means nothing.

The other worrying thing is the venture capital side of their business. How and by who will the money be raised? Who owns the debt? As a Blue, your first instinct is scepticism, but always with that little part of you that dreams....

Jackie Barry
89 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:28:26
I believe there are more people involved in this and between the two being mentioned we are talking about wealth over a billion pounds. Now maybe it's not as much as we would like but it's a lot more than Kenwright and his buddies have.

Let's just see where this goes; it could bring others into the fray. Also, I suspect any deal would wipe out our debt.

Mark Pierpoint
90 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:35:42
Alan (#71),

It is not about super rich individuals bankrolling clubs anymore. Man City, Chelsea and PSG are rare events. With FFP, it is harder to do it anyway.

We need someone with 1) contacts; 2) a strategic business plan to grow the club; and 3) expertise in running sporting ventures who can grow the club to be, at least in the main, self-sustaining.

Tom Bowers
91 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:37:14
If this is bona-fide then we all agree it's not before time. The club has been way behind for many years and to join the elite then the big investors are needed.

Working on a shoestring budget won't bring success. If this club is to keep its young prodigies and attract quality players, then there has never been a better time than now. They have a number of players that are surplus to requirements and are ready to be replaced.

Martin Jamieson
92 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:38:18
This is just what we need, although I would rather see the Chang Group have a pop at us. Best potential for years with the current line up of players and at least we have stability in management.

New owners with deep pockets who let their management team manage, redevelop Goodison Park, build on the current player roster with the addition of Rooney... now that would be worth watching!

Stephen Ashton
93 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:40:08
Andrew (#43). The reason for Leicester's success is not just Vardy. It is the ethos of the whole club, the high tempo, pressing style of football that they play for the whole 90 mins, every single game. It is the atmosphere that this none stop action creates at the King Power. Not the pass it slowly 5 yards at a time style that has turned GP from one of the most intimidating grounds in the Premier League to something akin to a Trappist monastery.

If we are to be purchased, please let it be by people who actually have the ability and desire to redevelop the Old Lady, invest in the squad, and not just buy out the current owners, who have made sure that – with the exception of one or two players – there are no assets left to strip.

John Pickles
94 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:42:15
20 years, no trophies, one (failed) play-off for a Champions League place.......

I'm happy to take a chance on them!

James Flynn
95 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:05:06
I say pass. I don't think Bill et al will be asking me for input, though. Assuming rumors of his illness are true, Bill will want his affairs in order and first in with the cash will get the shares.

Moores is one slick mofo and no doubt about it. Yes, his history is in building things; he built the baseball Padres into a team that went to the World Series. He did it pretty quick, too... followed by a decade of disaster on the field. If baseball had relegation, San Diego Padres would have went down; specifically because of Moores's ownership. So, there's that.

He got the stadium in San Diego built, yes, but mostly on the taxpayer's dime, while he got ownership of the stadium. Would the city of Liverpool gift him this way? They didn't do it for Bill and them.

In fact, I can't see where HE sees money to be made, unless he invests in a Goodison regeneration or a new park... which would take a few years. Plus keep a competitive team on the pitch, build up the commercial side, etc.

His history is of a fellow who can create things and make them grow on the one hand and a "me-first" shifty bastard on the other. Of course, this describes many self-made, rich businessmen, if not most. I've talked myself in and out of him as owner, several times in the last 24 hours.

He's been successful, so he COULD take Everton forward. But, he ALWAYS makes a profit on his investments, huge profits. Where does he see profit in owning Everton without a multi-year, sound, investment scheme in place first? Would he hang in there that long? That part I don't get.

Sooooo, I say pass. The "shifty bastard" part of him is in the front of my mind, right now. That could change again several times today...

Mark Robinson
96 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:06:53
John Moores (the Chevy Chase lookalike) milked the San Diego Padres. Big profits from TV contracts and selling players to richer teams weren't reinvested, but went into his pocket.

Be careful what you wish for!

Phil Walling
97 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:16:40
I heard somebody on TalkShite say that the sticking point in negotiations was likely to be 'some very expensive loans that had no facility for early pay-off'.

It would be ironic if these turned out to be the much debated VI deals, wouldn't it?

Dave Lynch
99 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:33:13
There was no more a shifty bastard than Bill, James.

That man told so many lies and untruths it was farcical that he ever had the front to turn up to a game.

Tom Cuffe
100 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:33:17
Don't care what the doubters think, this can only mean good news, what's the current board achieved of significance in the last 16 years; we're going nowhere the way we are.

All we need is:

A new improved Goodison (over the next few years);
A new Manager (for the start of next season);
The same team with a few additions and were laughing!

Merry Christmas

John Keating
101 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:37:00
Seems a number of posters on here are calling them shifty bastards, only interested in making money, don't have the interest of the Club at heart.

Now, are we talking about Kenwright, Earl and Co or are we talking about these American guys ?

John Daley
102 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:42:55
"Discovered by the the Germans in 1904 they named it San Diego ,which of course in German means 'a whale's vagina'.
Quote by Ron Burgundy."

Probably a pretty good summation of the state of Everton's finances as well:

"How are those books looking?"

"Like a whale's vagina to be honest. Big black hole, sloppy as hell, smells a bit fishy, leaks springing up all over the place like Pinnochio's been strumming the theme tune from Pearl and Dean on her cetacean clit, clearly been a couple of massive cocks poking around in there over the years and going to take a diaphragm the size of Dawn French's arse to plug that shit".

Still, I bet Bobby Elstone's spot on impersonation of Brick Tamland went down an absolute storm during negotiations.

John Aldridge
103 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:46:55
I'll believe it when the ink is dry on the contracts. I firmly believe this will end in embarrassment for the club just like all the other proposed "takeovers".
David Barks
104 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:50:46
I keep reading in here that we've been here many times before. Really? How many groups has it been announced that we entered into an exclusivity agreement, with the potential buyers being named?

These two are billionaires, and Moores owns teams to win. He took a San Diego Padres team that was horrific and had them competing every season, probably one of the most successful periods in that franchise's history.

He also got them a beautiful stadium right in down town San Diego, something that was incredibly difficult to do. He hated having to sell that team, and only did so because of a divorce which caused him to have to give his ex-wife half of his wealth.

Of course they would be buying to make money, what the hell else would you expect? That's why you own a business, to make money. But it doesn't mean you can't be passionate about winning at whatever business you're in. And Moores does like to win. He also paid down a lot of the Padres debt with his own money when he bought them, FYI.

Paul Tran
105 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:53:39
Judging by the report in today's Times, this one has sufficient legs, subject to the potential horrors that due diligence may uncover!

If it's genuine, I think it's good news. Everyone in football is in it for the money and I've been waiting a long time for the people in charge of the club to run it properly and impose some decent standards on the management and players.

Is it Bill's final and lasting legacy for us and is Mrs Martinez buying some last-minute brown trousers for her husband?

Charles Barrow
106 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:55:41
What type of Americans? Like the lot over the road that have spent £200 million on players or the blokes they bought from who almost (but didn't) destroy that club?

I'm nervous that it might be the latter.

Craig Harrison
107 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:56:06
Has anyone confirmed these guys don't have a return address of a flat in Manchester?

If these rumours pan out, what are the odds of a Mr Mourinho being approached???

Greg Lambden
109 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:02:16
John Jay Moores, the man said to be leading this takeover is much wealthier than is being reported currently. He was said to be worth around £500m back in 2008 but his net worth is now thought to be around a £1bn. This added to the the cash available to the rest of the anonymous consortium, should be plenty to take us to the next level.

I personally would take these guys with no cash what-so-ever. They've clearly got business acumen, which is a massive improvement on what we currently have.

Peter Laing
110 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:05:38
𧶀 million... a very nice little earner for Earl, Kenwright and Green.
Simon Jones
111 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:10:37
They don't have to be mega-wealthy, we are not awash with fantastic commercial deals and therefore not that expensive. We have debt to service too.

But mostly, there is so much money coming into the Premier League clubs that, as long as anyone has a decent business plan, they can borrow the money against the value of the club, just like the Glazers at Man Utd. I know its not popular, but it's a reality in the modern business environment.

I know someone who bought a ١M business with 𧿘k of his own money. Paid the debt off as he had a profitable business and knew how to run it. That is what banks and venture capitalists are looking for.

The motivation will be to improve the commercial deals and increase the value of the club, much like what is happening at Man City at the moment. They are the club to watch and stand the best chance of becoming an "English Barcelona".

David Barks
113 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:13:26
David Price,

That story is incredibly misleading. Going into 2009, we also had the financial meltdown which meant that the revenues were way down in the city of San Diego. Southern California took a massive hit with the real estate meltdown.

And the line about the low payroll, that's actually a strategy in baseball for the smaller market teams. They lower the payroll in order to build up their "farm system", which is the minor league system of young players. When doing this, there is no point in having a couple of high-priced players that would only block the development of those youth players.

The Kansas City Royals did this which now resulted in back-to-back World Series appearances, with them winning the last one, with mostly those players who came up through their system. The Houston Astros did the same exact thing, where they nearly made the World Series last year.

It's not as cut-and-dry as that made it seem. In that sport, you're actually rewarded for finishing last by getting very high draft picks. And, when you trade away the big name player, you get draft picks and young prospects that cost hardly any money in return. You then let them develop for a couple years in the minors and hope you struck gold in the end. Kansas City did, Houston did.

It's just a different system that can't be compared to how they would run this club knowing there are no draft picks and losing gets you relegation.

Brin Williams
114 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:15:32
Padres, vicars, the whole ecclesiastical bunch all the same – always out to shaft some poor bugger!

David Price
115 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:30:37
Dave, I did get the feeling the reporter didn't like Moores. The ex-wife's brother perhaps!
Damian Nolan
116 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:49:04
I would advise reading this before anyone got too thrilled.
Craig Walker
117 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:53:59
Must be half-season ticket purchasing time.
Thomas Surgenor
118 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:04:39
David Barks (#106), isn't that sort of Roberto's model at the minute?

Trade away a big player and stock up on youngsters from the minors in the hope that they'll develop?

Jay Harris
119 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:05:56
I think we should all keep an open mind until we know more.

There is no doubt that almost anyone would be better than the current board. With Bill's illness and limited input and the rest of them only interested in their interest repayments and golden payday we can only do better.

Whether these people are the "right" people for EFC none of us knows at this stage and due to the complications of the terms of the deal they may pull out anyway.

David Barks
120 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:06:35

How original, you're probably the 50th person in this thread to make that comment, which makes absolutely no sense. So are you saying that every season around this time we get a story in the national media that a group, with the main leaders named, enters into an exclusivity agreement with the purchase price announced? Care to provide the list over the past 10 seasons, since according to you it's a regular occurrence?

Paul Ellam
121 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:08:56
To borrow a line from the great Han Solo – "I've got a baaad feeling about this..."
Joseph Terrence
122 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:09:08
The "John Moores is scum" article really is poor. David B 106 does a great job at explaining it. The Padres play in a small market so it Is essentially impossible to expect them to spend on par with the New York Yankees - which it seems as though the author wanted. Also keep in mind that most of the vitriol is about Moores making shrewd business moves.

Michael Kenrick
123 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:10:15
I don't think so, Thomas. The only 'big player' to leave is Fellaini – and he couldn't wait to get out.

Stocking up on youngsters? Yes... but only bringing them through when forced to by injury. He's not doing that much to help the others develop otherwise, as there are too many old players with Premier League experience in the squad who will always be first choice, even as subs.

Paul Ferry
124 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:16:45
'Shifty bastard' (#90) is hardly a convincing reason not to open our warm welcoming arms to this lot. In fact, it borders on extreme naivety.

'Shifty bastard'? Erm: Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs? Do you see a theme emerging there? 'Shifty bastards' with cash get you in the top four. There is no bigger 'shifty bastard' than the one running the Chavs, read the recent biography of Putin – The New Tsar by Steven Lee Myers – and see what he is mixed up in and how he made his mountain of money.

Give me a 'shifty bastard' over Blue Bill any day of the week! It might well be what we need.

And the 'we don't want foreigners' or 'what do they know about footie' or (most naive of all) 'they are only in it for the money' ways of thinking?

Well, that's the sort of 1970s Peter Swales sheepskin coat frame of mind that will always make us second or third best in the current climate. The people running Everton since the first day of the Premier League and Sky have never adapted to the harsh commercialism and sharp strategic eye that is necessary to succeed today (unless your definition of success is 7thish). I don't know if this lot are the answer but I know that we need owners with their apparent commercial clout and zeal and 'shifty bastardness' who do not take back seats (eh Green) and count pounds to get to the next level.

I take heart from what seems to be the late revelation of this news. We normally first hear whispers and rumours before a ball is kicked that fizzle out: Kansas whizz-kids. Here it is a rather late and mature stage in the developments – after 'months' of talking – as we go into 'due diligence' when we first hear about it. Not sure why, but that gives me heart.

Now, this may not happen (delving into Everton's books is a chilling prospect) but I am certain that it is owners of this kind and acute commercial lens that we need to join up with the 'shifty bastards' party at the top of the league (respectful nod towards Leicester).

Craig Walker
126 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:24:58
David. I won't be getting my hopes up pal about this story. There was one earlier in the year and was reported on the BBC and Guardian websites. It came to nowt. I can think of 3 or 4 stories over the years where I've thought "oh great" only for nothing whatsoever to come of it. Each time, the news has resulted in the princely sum of the square root of bugger all being invested in our club/ground.

Call me sceptical but I won't be getting excited until: a) Bill has relinquished control of his train set; b) the deal has gone through; c) there is significant investment in the team; and d) there is significant investment in a new ground.

Matthew Williams
127 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:32:45
Gotta be some minted Blues somewhere in the world?! A Scouser would be a good start... time to buy another Euro Millions ticket, methinks!
Thomas Surgenor
128 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:33:37

I will admit it was an exaggerated interpretation of Roberto's transfer policy.

However, I don't think we've gave enough time to judge the youngsters he has bought with monies that may (very bold assumption) have been part of the Fellaini sale.

It only takes one of Henan, Holgate, Rodriguez, Galloway or Foulds to make it and he will recoup their combined outlay. Some might add Deulofeu and Besic to that stockpile.

However, I was only making comparisons to comments made in David Barks #106 post and you are correct, we will never know unless he bites the bullet and plays them.

Dennis Ng
129 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:34:45
I look forward to this and hope this goes through.

I have a lot of reservations after reading earlier comments (must build a new stadium (sure? but...), £100m? THAT CHEAP? £200m for playing squad? WTF?)

Please don't ruin this with unrealistic expectations. It's their money. We can support them with our money on club merchandise but we're not the ones writing the check to fund whatever grandeur dreams we have for our club. If anything, I would love to see a Wenger-ish manager seeing us through a great stadium build with little or no money but that's for the owners to decide.

If there is an item that is cost effective and easy for any owner, it will be to improve our coaching staff and make our academy world class. I rather cringe at the slow growth as young players improve on their mistakes than grumble about our tactics and youth development going nowhere. As Michael said, we're stockpiling talent but not using them. It's eerily similar to what my boss told me about my team buying a "Ferrari" IT system but IT is not letting us use its full capacity. WTF!

Andrew Ellams
130 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:38:38
Galloway, Barkley, Stones, Lukaku, Deolofeu and to a lesser extent Browning have all had plenty of game time this season. That's not a bad return for half a season.
Mike Hayes
131 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:41:57
Craig (#116), I have been saying that for last 10 years "It's all smoke and mirrors" whenever there is fan unrest – biggest disaster was Kings Dock.
Eric Myles
132 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:42:09
Phil #93, it's more likely the Prudential loan that still has 20 years to run, the BVI loans have been yearly roll over loans.
Tony Dove
133 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:43:15
John@97 a great post with a touch of Derek and Clive. What with the John Moores angle as well, let's just enjoy the fund of humour offered by potential takeover, no?

If it comes to pass everyone can then analyse it seriously. (Hopefully they will make the sacking of RM a pre condition.)

Michael Patison
134 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:43:25
I know many complain in the face of US investment but the reality is that the States are where the money is. You can point to Villa, Derby, etc. (the Red Shite, too, to some extent), but the fact of the matter is that for all the backlash surrounding the Glazer takeover a decade ago (FC United and such), they're not the reason behind ManU's current troubles and have done an immense amount to expand the club's world reputation.

People also use the Red Shite as another example, but they fail to think about the fact that, with the exception of that Champions' League shock triumph, they hadn't experienced much notable success in the years preceding the takeover by the Boston-based group.

I don't know anything about Charles Noell, or John Jay Moores for that matter, but I do know about the Padres, being from the US myself and having a sizable interest in baseball history. They were founded in 1969, and had a really poor history before Moores bought the team (aside from some success in the 1980s). They've had 14 winning seasons, 6 of them under his ownership, and he also presided over stability the side had never previously experienced, and hasn't had in the half-decade since.

I really hope the deal goes through, but also really hope that after it does the club doesn't start buying players that don't fit the club's mentality, but having the ability to spend more on players that do fit into it.

James Flynn
135 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:44:33
Dave (94) - "There was no more a shifty bastard than Bill, James." No quarrel with me. I want Bill and all gone.

Speaking of Bill, Moores is Bill's age. His wife of 40+ years divorced him supposed/alleged because he got himself a younger gal. Maybe he's one of those guys thinks he'll live forever.

Hmmmm, OK. I'm in. Sign him up.

James Hughes
136 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:52:27
I do worry about the collective mindset of TW: we constantly moan about the lack of investment and how crap the board are in all things Everton, but an investor turns up and we go 'Bugger off you're not good enough'. Similar to other blues, I will believe it when the deal is done.

The thing that struck me, and may be a sticking point, was from the article:
... it is difficult to gauge the likelihood of the bid succeeding due to Everton's "complicated financial structure"...

All those mysterious operating costs, I have heard that mentioned before once or twice, have you, David??

Jay Harris
137 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:59:28
If it is the same terms as a few years ago it is more to do with the share structure (and debt payoff) than the unexplained operating costs.

I fear messrs Earl and Green will be the deciding factor in this deal.

Brian Wilkinson
138 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:06:37
Forget flying banners for the Stoke game, good chance a flying pig will be spotted.

Have to agree with another poster, half-price season tickets, new season tickets seem to go hand in hand with, new owners, ground move rumours.

One day, I will be proved wrong, but until then, I'm not going to wet my kecks with excitement.

Eric Myles
139 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:09:41
Jay #124, considering that Green paid for Earles shares and it's extremely likely he holds the note on BKs shares, you may well be right.
Mark Hughes
140 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:10:32
This would be a disaster for Everton. Bill should sell to an Arab or Oligarch only. Anyone else is going to asset strip and sell.

If Bill wants to make money with no legacy, he will sell to the yanks.

If he does sell to the Yanks, he has sold his soul and deserves the hell which will follow.

Mark Taylor
141 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:17:26
With around £30m net debt, this would mean £170m going to our shareholders- at face value assuming the bandied numbers are accurate. Not a bad return on, what?, £20m.

Is it a good deal for the yanks? It's hard to value football clubs, so much is about future potential. The reason it might not be a good deal is because we basically make an operating loss of several million a year, have done for years. What has taken us into profit is player sales, which of course we the fans don't like. There is theoretically scope to increase that operating profit with the new TV deal in 2016 which provides a big increase of around £40m. On the other hand, our cost base has been growing (player amortisation, those 'other operating costs' and of course wage costs) The two might easily balance out. At this point, it looks like a better deal for Bill.

Why it might be a good deal for the yanks is all about future potential. A new ground, with approporiate retail attached could be a massive money spinner, especially if they can somehow persuade the taxpayer to stump up cash (think West Ham's very wonderful deal on their new stadium). There are aspects of our revenue mix which could be hugely improved, notably our sponsorship and commercial income. Also taking out the £40m in loans with their very unattractive c8% interest rate would instantly throw around £4m cash into the model.

I guess if all else fails, they could flog all our players- who debatably might be worth more than £200m in total?, field a team of rookies, collect the TV money for a season, and the parachute payments and still turn a buck.

They're Americans, so it seems to me the right mindset here, to paraphrase a famous American, is 'do you feel lucky? well do you, punk?'

Right now, I like where Bill is sitting...

Paul Andrews
142 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:45:13
At this point, it looks a better deal for Bill.

How fortunate for Mr Chairman, he didn't see that coming.

Dennis Ng
143 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:48:29
The song BK should be listening to right now is "Let it go!"
Andy Walker
144 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:54:02
Bill preparing to roll the dice on our club then? Let's hope it works out.

Are any of many who aspired to the 'Bill will never sell' ' narrative prepared to restate the case, or were they always just sticking the knife into Bill?

David Israel
145 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:00:12
Opinions vary wildly around here, as would have been expected. From saying these are venture capitalists who only want to sell on eventually, to claiming they will saddle the club with enormous debt (they'd have to choose one of the two, I'm afraid, not both at the same time), to general disparaging of foreign takeovers (I suppose Mike Ashley is just a Russian under a false name), to those who, at long last, see light at the the end of the tunnel, there is a bit of everything.

What do I make of it? From what I know about these two Americans, and taking account of our decadent regime, I think this could be a good move, but, of course, we'd all like to know about their plans concerning the ground and team investment.

I'm for it.

Paul Andrews
146 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:15:59

If the sale goes through. Bill was true to his word, he said we were always for sale... If someone gave him the asking price.

Nothing wrong with a businessman making money, just don't believe the bollocks about waiting for the right type of buyer.

[I still believe it won't happen, by the way.]

Rob Halligan
147 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:25:32
Most of you lot on here know naff all about these two Americans, yet are putting them down already.

Most of you lot on here know naff all about Everton's accounts, but talk like you do.

Most of you lot know naff all about what goes on inside Kenwright's head, but talk like you do.

Most of you lot on here know naff all about what happens on a daily basis regarding trying to sell the club, but talk like you're all board members.

Ray Roche
148 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:32:26
I'm with Rob on this one, let's just keep our counsel until we KNOW what's going on. No contributor on here has any real knowledge of forthcoming events.

And while I'm at it, let's just try and stop the constant Kenwright kicking. If he's really ill it does us no credit to be slagging off someone in his position whether we like him or not. We are all aware of missed opportunities and all the other black marks that stack up against him but let's cut him some slack until we know what's happening with any proposed sale and also his health.

Ian Robert
149 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:34:03
It's a lot of Naff, Rob!
Joe Foster
150 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:36:04
Yep let's not talk about any related Everton news on a Everton forum. Now that would be naff.
Seamus McCrudden
151 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:37:59
In that case... I'm saying naffin!
David Trickey
152 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:38:14
Rob Halligan. Eloquent, no. Absolutely correct, yes. Well put sir.
Tony X Williams
153 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:39:24
Rob Halligan #130

Spot-on, mate!

Ian Robert
154 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:40:48
I'm with Rob on this... people make lots of comments on stuff they have no understanding of. If any septics buy us.... get ready for the debt dumping on Everton.
Michael Williams
155 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:44:15
American here and a very big baseball fan for decades.

I would bet money that nothing would really change at Everton if Moores buys the team. He claimed he did not have the money to add big players to the team even though the city paid almost $400 million of the new $500 million stadium. He said owing the $100 million kept him from buying big players.

San Diego has been one of the laughingstock sports franchises in America. Not because they were poorly run per se, just because they were not serious about winning.

Moores may get a new stadium built but there will be no big investment in players. He will milk the cow that EFC will become and sell when the time comes to make a very tidy profit.

Stewart Lowe
156 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:44:59
If John Moores is worth around 𧺬m and Charles Noell is worth considerably less, then they are not rich enough to take our club forward. Its no longer enough to be a multi millionaire owner of a Premier League football club, it now requires a multi billionaire to take a club forward.

As neither of them are billionaires I fear another Randy Lerner situation where he has bought Aston Villa to make a few quid but not happy to invest heavily in a club within the worlds most competitive league.

Paul Jeronovich
158 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:50:04
They're not winning any beauty contests any time soon. Just kidding !!!
Keith Harrison
159 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:59:37
1. Will someone get Rob his cheese fix as soon as possible please.

2. Most people on this site complain bitterly about BK not getting the investment etc, but as soon as someone appears seriously interested, it is the wrong profile, or they haven't enough money.

Let's face it, Goodison is an embarrassing dump. I haven't a season ticket, but do travel (a long distance) to a lot of games. To then sit behind a friggin pylon is both a nuisance, and, as I said, embarrassing. It's a dump I love because it's our dump, but it really is showing the ravages of time.

Do we honestly believe that a billionaire is going to walk in then plough all his money into the club on a stadium, a load of Galactico's and corresponding wages bills with no return? Get real!!

Let's see how this pans out, as these guys walked away from Swansea as the fans wouldn't sell them their shares, and if they read ToffeeWeb, they might just piss off over the Sunset without completing due diligence.

Ray Roche
160 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:01:09
Ian, I suppose we could always just make shit up and pass it off as an accurate account of the inner workings of a football club. Let's not allow the truth to get in the way of a good slagging, eh?
Ray Roche
161 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:03:20
Keith,"It's a dump I love because it's our dump".....does that make you Stig Of The Dump, then?
Keith Harrison
162 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:16:12
Ray, Ian is exactly right. Just look at the Liverpool and Man Utd models. I guess we should call you 'Spliff' of the dump eh? hehe.

Merry Chrimbo everybody and remember, your glass is both half-full AND half-empty.

Garry Corgan
163 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:18:25
I think an important development is perhaps being missed here.

None of us know what these Americans would or would not bring to the club, or what their future plans might be. We do know, however, that this is the first time in the 16 years of Kenwright's ownership that we've had concrete news that the club is in the process of being sold, regardless of whether it actually happens or not.

Bill has always looked for 'investment' and, if you believe some commentators, has never really wanted to relinquish control. Amid reports of his continuing ill-health, this news might well be signalling a new intent to sell up so that we can finally get the investment we want and the new ground we need.

If this takeover doesn't happen, it will be interesting to see how long it will be before another potential buyer pops up. Personally, I've always believed that Everton wasn't for sale... until now.

Jack Cross
164 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:24:52
Going by Sky, the takeover will be completed in 6 weeks. Let's wait and see. Who knows... our long wait maybe over.

But why is there always a massive MAYBE! at the back of our minds? It couldn't be all the let-downs that we have had to endure in the past, could it, play mates?

Ian Brandes
165 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:26:12
Going down the Swansea thread for a moment, the main man at the Liberty Stadium is a guy called Huw Jenkins, who made his fortune as a very shrewd and ruthless banker. They probably walked away because he was not disposed to do a favourable deal for them.

On the subject of BK, I will only say that this man probably saved us when we were at the depths of despair.

But the world of football moved on, which meant that a very successful theatrical impresario did not have the necessary financial clout to compete in the Premier League.

Yet he has probably done his best despite our collective moaning, and I, for one, would wish him well whatever happens next.

On the subject of the Yanks, I would guess that their time of exclusivity might indicate other bidders.

Now that would be interesting!

Colin Glassar
166 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:27:59
I think if Bill bought a graveyard people would stop dying. I've read most of the comments and I'm inclined to tell them to, NAFF OFF!!
Jackie Barry
167 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:29:12
I have heard that this group has considerably more money than is being touted here. Also they have way more than Kenwright and people have been ok with that. He purchased a baseball team for $80 something million then sold it for $800 million... not bad.
Brent Stephens
168 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:36:27
Ray Roche (#131) – wise words again, on both counts.
Bill Gall
169 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:40:23
The only thing I would like to see come out of this is that other American sports operators take notice and decide to have a serious look at the ownership of Everton FC. This may bring in some serious wealthy people to take over. Only wish it could be the Kraft family from the Boston area.

Yes, these people from the San Diego area will want to make money, but they may be more willing than our present Chairman and Board to speculate to accumulate. The only way that they will purchase enough shares to own the club is to see how much they will have to invest to raise the profile of the club, i.e. winning cups and titles that will give them a profit if or when they sell.

Loyalty to clubs is a thing of the past, and there are not many teams in the Premier League who have had the same owners for the same length of time as Everton has. The New Year will be here in just over a week, let's throw out the Old and ring in the New.

I doubt if there are very few billionaire business people out there that have not made more than one shady deal in their time, so let's just hope we are lucky enough to get in the right people in to bring in some of the rewards that we have not had for about 20 years.

John Keating
170 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:21:01
Does anyone really believe Saint Bill, even more so Robert Earl, gives a flying shit about who buys the Club as long as they pull in big bucks profit ?

Bill appears none too well and more than likely is looking at an easier life. As for Earl, well... what allegiance, apart from getting Rocky to visit us, does he have?

As long as Bill and Robert are happy with their return they'll sell out to the devil.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Bill will put any profit he makes from a sale back into the Club as a charitable donation... but then maybe pigs might fly!

Dave Ganley
171 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:27:35
I'm with Rob (#130). We are rudderless at the moment and have been for the best part of 25 years. Be careful what you wish for?

Well be careful of maintaining the status quo. No trophy for 20 years, three failed (well the third is almost consigned to the bin) stadium attempts, no investment, no long term plan (that the powers that be deign to share with the fanbase) and a manager that boasts of bringing CL football to Everton which is looking more ridiculous by the day.

Yeah... be careful of what you wish for – it may actually bring success, trophies, a new stadium/redeveloment of GP, sustained CL access and regular marquee players to GP.

It may not... but what I do know is that, with this regime, we haven't got a hope in hell of doing any of those things. Bring it on; let's actually be bold for once instead of knowing our place.

Colin Malone
172 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:47:14
I don't want to sound harsh but, if all the rumours about BK's health are true (and I hope they are not)... but, if they are true, Philip Green and Robert Earl will want their money back without going through the taxman etc.

Make no bones about it: potential buyers have been put off, only investors have been welcomed. EFC could've been sold years ago. Only time will tell...

Michael Polley
173 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:50:38
Believe it when it actually happens. I hope they can move our dear club up to the next level with much need investment.

I pray to God they are not asset strippers!!!

Kevin Tully
174 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:54:32
Michael - the only assets the club own are running around on the pitch. I doubt any new owner would spend a fortune purchasing the club, then sell all our best players.

Anthony Jones
175 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:57:14
Prepare for an anticlimax. The club won't suddenly be thrust amongst the big spenders with profit orientated leaders at the helm. Football is extremely difficult to run as a profitable enterprise as the players suck clubs dry on obscene contracts. We can always hope of course.
Colin Glassar
176 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:58:07
I think once the yanks see the amount of lawn mowers we've got stashed in a warehouse in Norris Green they will run like hell.
Matt Garen
177 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:59:40
It could be nothing but, the other Saturday, I was in the pub for the Joshua fight and bumped into an old mate who works for a finance company. He told me that Everton had applied for a £20M bridging loan because there was a takeover happening in the New Year.

This was in South Wales and he supports Man Utd so no need to think it's not true, especially with the news today. It could finally be happening.

Harold Matthews
178 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:06:41
Will think about it when it happens. Right now I'm fully occupied with the terrifying prospect of Martinez being with us for another three or four years.
Michael Kenrick
179 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:16:09
Some observations:

Plenty of ire towards Kenwright and Earl who stand to gain big as major shareholders.... but not a single mention of Woods, who was an (almost) equally major shareholder last time I looked. How so? What makes him immune to the 'profiteering' jibes?

Assuming the 𧶀M buys out all three majors, that's a cool ٦,400 per share — a heck of a premium on the 𨀑 per share paid by BK's True Blue Holdings for Johnson's shares... and a whopping 980% gross return!!! (Perhaps someone who does compound interest can compute the eye-watering annual RoI?)

The common wisdom is it's not merited; however, sinking 㿀M into the potential black hole that no-one else wanted to take on was one hell of a risk at the time (perhaps less so if underwritten by Sir Philip Green).

And what's this about Swansea shareholder/fans not willing to sell? Is it optional or required that the new owners offer the same deal to all shareholders? In which case, the per share price may be as low as ٣,700.


Jamie Crowley
180 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:27:44
As James Flynn, fellow 'Merican, says:

His history is of a fellow who can create things and make them grow on the one hand and a "me-first" shifty bastard on the other. Of course, this describes many self-made, rich businessmen, if not most. I've talked myself in and out of him as owner, several times in the last 24 hours.

I agree with this. Having followed baseball my whole life here's my take on this guy. He WILL try to win. But he WILL fuck your wife while your head is turned. And if it starts to go south? He'll let it continue south.

It's boom or bust with this gold-diggin' 'Merican.

I'm SO on the fencepost about this. My gut says hopefully it goes through and then start praying it never turns south.

David Barks
181 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:27:54
Well said Michael Kenrick. Of course people will profit. Like it or not that's what makes the world go round.
Dave Abrahams
182 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:30:44
Rob (#137) – in other words we know as much as you.
Tony Abrahams
183 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:36:34
Post #137, Michael Williams, says it all. They became a laughing stock because nobody felt they were serious about winning. That's what being an Evertonian has felt like to me for years.

Nobody knows if they will be right for us, and without wishing to go over old ground, the time for change was years ago.

I thought it was a great touch at half-time on Saturday, having all those kids from Alder Hey, on the pitch, but we used to exist to win things, and I would love to see us genuinely competing again.

Jamie Crowley
184 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:38:01
When I say "this guy" I mean Moores...

And I have to reiterate, this is a bit of a scary thing. Moores absolutely built an AMAZING team with the Padres and then just stripped the ever-loving shit out of them.

I want Everton to be a powerhouse. And this guy can take us there. But he will also scrap us on a heap of dung in 5 to 7 years if he can make a buck.


Ray Said
185 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:40:42
I hope it happens but I think they will walk once they see the books and the VI loans that cant be paid off early, they find out the club appears to have limiting mortgages on Goodison that doesn't allow any development to take place and the club does not own its own training ground and that there are no assets that are not on the pitch.

If it goes ahead, the fact they don't have billions is not a problem to me as the club's turnover places it in the 20 richest clubs in the world and sharp businessmen should be capable of using that finance to make the club successful.

My big worry is the ground. I don't want a Lego build in the sticks or in a park. I want Goodison revived and sharp business men would pay to have roads moved, schools rebuilt and a renewed Goodison developed to 55/60k capacity.

Fingers crossed

Rob Halligan
186 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:55:35
Dave (#171). Exactly, mate. Nobody knows the day-to-day running of the club, yet there seems to be a lot of bloody experts on here who know everything. I admit, I don't have a clue about what goes on within the four walls of Goodison.
Geoffrey Caveney
187 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:56:54
My gut reaction to the news was positive, but then I found out about Moores' business history. Please read about what happened with the Peregrine Systems company. Moores was chairman of the board, made $600-$800 million unloading his shares of the company's stock, then it went bankrupt and many of its executives were convicted of committing financial fraud to inflate the stock price. Moores was not convicted, but it's quite shady how much financial benefit he just happened to gain from the fraud.

Can you imagine if Moores buys Everton, and THEN another shady business deal of his unravels? What would happen to our club then?

James Flynn
188 Posted 23/12/2015 at 22:07:40
Stewart (146) - "As neither of them are billionaires I fear another Randy Lerner situation where he has bought Aston Villa to make a few quid but not happy to invest heavily in a club within the worlds most competitive league."

Nonono. The only thing common is that they're American. Lerner's dad made the family fortune. Lerner is the do-nothing son who inherited the fortune. Ran the NFL Cleveland Browns into a laughing stock. Preordained he'd do poorly with Villa.

Moores is a self-made man. If he gets control, we'll see how well he does. You never know, after all. But any comparison between his success in business and Lerner's is a non-starter.

Ian Riley
189 Posted 23/12/2015 at 23:53:49
Good deal for them! Buy club for £200 million! New Sky deal next summer and assets on the pitch. Lukaku, Stones and Coleman, there's a potential £80-90 million. As much as people moan about Mr Kenwright, he has built a legacy within the community of Everton and Liverpool as a whole. The squad has improved since he has taken over. No, not perfect but has done his best.

Is this another story to sell season tickets? Well, Mr Kenwright is not a young man, it's going to happen one day, why not now? Sky are reporting it, so some credibility. My only concern is the debt. American owners will treat Everton as a business, no loyalty to the club or fans.

An example of this is Aston Villa, slowly selling top players over three to four years. They will be lucky to stay up next season in the Championship. Or Everton may rise again and this may be the best thing to happen to the club.

David Israel
191 Posted 24/12/2015 at 00:48:28
Michael Kenrick (#171),

"Is it optional or required that the new owners offer the same deal to all shareholders?"

I think this only applies to publicly-quoted companies, and then only if someone buys at least 75% of the stock, in which case they have to make the same offer to the remaining shareholders. Kenwright's, Earl's and Woods' combined holdings falls some way short of that figure.

Steve Jenkins
192 Posted 24/12/2015 at 00:56:02
Based on everything I've read I'm conflicted by this. The current board have neither the finances, but more importantly the business acumen to move us forward.

These guys appear to have both – certainly from a "getting things done" perspective. What's concerning though is will they just look to get a stadium built, maximise revenue in all other areas, but take the large majority of the profits and cut the wage bill, leaving us a mid-level team?

Will they further saddle the club with debt, or do they a see a sleeping giant and understand that the only way they will maximise revenue and profits is to grow the club and for the club to become successful.

Success means more (Worldwide) exposure = more bums on seats, more (Worldwide) shirt sales, commercial sponsorships etc.

I would like to see prior to the sale a public statement from or an MOU of the swale between them and the current board of just what exactly their intentions and business plans are and how they intend achieving them.

Whilst it does not legally commit them to following through, it does act as a deterrent for them to not ride roughshod over the club without the fans calling them to task.

It also stops them from saying that they never said at any point during the purchase of the club that they would "saddle the club with debt" ...

Whilst ultimately you expect them to be looking to make a significant return on their investment, they can do this whilst it runs concurrent to the growth as success of the football Club.

The best thing they can do if they want to do this is to engender with fan groups and get their support, be transparent about plans and work alongside the fans.

If they look to avoid this you can be assured that they are charlatans looking to fuck the club over to make a profit.

Gordon Crawford
194 Posted 24/12/2015 at 01:27:35
Seriously worried about this after reading up on these guys. I get an awful feeling that this is going to go very very wrong if the takeover goes through.
Don Alexander
195 Posted 24/12/2015 at 01:28:13
The Everton prospectus for buyers;

The TV money is obscene next year and is likely to continue for a least a few years after that, easily replenishing your 𧶀 million outlay.

We have several players who, when sold this year, or maybe next, will accrue well over 𧴜 million... for no further investment... and there's a few others who will swell your bank account too!

Whilst we do have a decrepit stadium we've had it so long that there's demonstrably no will whatsoever even amongst the current board or, more seriously, local, UK or European government, to do anything about it, so why should you even think about it?

The fans are clearly passive about all of the above, and have been for many years, because for virtually every match they fill the ground even though a significant percentage are even afforded a full view of the pitch.

So, in short, please buy us for 𧶀mill, giving the board a massive return on our comparatively paltry input, you get rich quick on our back whatever the cost to the... er... what are they called again Bobby El?... Oh yes, the fans, yes, thank you for that, and then fuck off leaving one of the founder members of the entire 19th century fucking football enterprise as no more than a distant memory.

What's not to like?

As our motto says to any ruthless, money grabbing, cheap-skate, debt loading pirate, "Nothing But The Best Is Good Enough"... for you!

Brian Dagnall
196 Posted 24/12/2015 at 01:35:32
Well here's my twopenneth.

So what if Kenwright et al make a big profit? Why didn't some of you guys stump up the bargain £20 million back in 98? Only hindsight makes the £20 mill a bargain. You lot could have borrowed and bought the shares... ah, but you didn't. Just criticise people who did. If our club is worth £200 mill, why on earth would they sell for less to some Yanks?

Coming to the possible purchase, two hillbilly private equity guys say they might buy and you all start frothing at the mouth. Kenwright promised he would only sell to people who he felt were suitable as owners of our club and had some affinity with the club. When he said that, I really thought private equity guys would be the LAST people considered suitable. These guys wanted Swansea but a wise section of theirs supporters told them to 'op it. So they look for some other patsy to buy.

Just what I needed for Christmas, the promise that we might have two American owners, rather like that super successful team across the park. Two lots of American owners, money spent, and still they are shite. I wish the yanks would stick to playing rounders frankly.

Jimmy-Ã…ge Sørheim
197 Posted 24/12/2015 at 04:13:25
I want us to establish the same system as Swansea. I am willing to buy shares if there is some fan group established to do that.

Everton are very weak right now, our chairman is old and sick, plus we could end up being saddled with debt.

I hope Kenwright will investigate and stop being as naive as he was when he hired Martinez.

I really hope Kenwright will stay in place for the time being,– there are horror stories with new owners out there, and I love this club just as it is.

Amit Vithlani
198 Posted 24/12/2015 at 06:21:50
Michael (#171), some very prescient observations. However, what I am not clear on is that does £200m represent the debt-free valuation or just the value of the shares? If latter, the club is worth in the region of £250m (can't recall our net debt will check when I have a moment). If it is the former, the value of the shares would be £150m.

All this is based on the assumption that £200m is a figure offered for all shares. If as you indicate it might for TBH shares only, then the valuation of the club is even higher.

Regarding your observation around a minority of shareholders obstructing a deal, and the requirement to make an offer to them, it really depends on what was structured in the shareholders agreement. Nothing is automatic in my experience as the regulations in respect of minority shareholders for private companies are less onerous than those in listed ones.

One assumes that those who bought more than 1 share did spend money on advice and structured tag and drag rights, which would automatically require the same offer for their shares (unless the tag has a different price attached).

All conjecture given the secrecy around the shareholder agreements.

Regarding a comment by Phil Walling on the expensive VI loans not having the facility to be repaid, that is strictly not possible in law. Anyone can repay their debts at any time and cannot be forced to keep debt into perpetuity if they have the means to repay.

What lenders can however do is insert an early repayment penalty which can be eye watering.

The VI loans from memory are annual so in cash terms the penalties should not be that great. The loan securitised on season tickets has a few years to run so that is another matter entirely....

Colin Glassar
199 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:01:18
The more I read about this fella Moores, the more anxious I become about this deal. As some have said previously, if we are going to be awash in TV money over the next few years, why not wait until we get another (few?) offer? I've heard this might be a ploy to get other potential investors to start making their move now.

If they are doing due diligence on us, I hope we're doing the same on them.

Tony Draper
200 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:19:29
It does appear that we have all assumed that this approach is for a "Take Over/ Buyout", however, BK has notably emphasised in recent times, that he was seeking "Investment" (despite far earlier clearly saying that he was looking for a buyer as he was only a custodian).

I have almost zero knowledge or understanding of Company Law, so I'm wondering if this US based consortium is looking to "Buy IN" rather than "Buy OUT"?

Would they still be accorded a period of exclusivity for due diligence if they were "Buying IN"?

Given the amount of speculation regarding BK's health, a "Buy OUT" would seem far more likely.

Mark Tanton
201 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:20:27
At the risk of greeting a potentially exciting development with cynicism, does anyone trust the board not to make an Evertonesque pig's ear of this?
Darryl Ritchie
202 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:25:48
I truly believe the club is close to being sold. I don't have enough reliable information to say whether this will be a good thing, or potentially disastrous.

I've read some reports that the two are worth about £800 million combined, while others say their worth a billion each.

They've owned a MLB team, but their knowledge of, and passion for football (if any) is unknown. Is this just an investment opportunity by a couple of yanks, looking to make a killing, or could they invest some serious money into what we have and make Everton a football power again?

We need a new stadium – investment;
We need to own and upgrade Finch Farm – investment;
We need to strengthen the squad – investment;
We need some serious investment.

I have no quarrel with the present board. BK and Co are millionaires, trying to compete with billionaires. It's a no-win situation. The time for change, because of a few reasons, BK's health being just one, is now.

It's early days. The club hasn't even acknowledged that there's even interest. It could amount to nothing, but one thing I'm positive about is we can't stay where we are. We are treading water at best. Some aren't to sure about going forward with Moores and Noell, but they may be exactly what we need... or not.

We we will find out, one way or the other in a month and a half.

Michael Kenrick
203 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:48:09
You raise some good points, Amit. And you mention something I've never heard talk of before in the Everton context: a shareholders agreement. I don't recall there being any. A search for 'agreement' on the EFCSA website shows up nothing.

There may be some understanding between the major shareholders but, to my knowledge, there is no shareholders agreement for the smaller 'investors'.

David (#182) – thanks for the clarification.
Thomas Lennon
204 Posted 24/12/2015 at 08:43:12
I think not getting involved with moneymen isn't an option for medium term survival in EPL.

Will we see ticket prices rise? Will we see a bigger squad, better players, big manager and perhaps most imminently a new stadium? The answer is the thickness and quality of the cloth we will work with will vary according to one thing only. Profit. That might be by attracting more customers or better paid customers or probably both. Get used to it fast cos after Kenwright there will be no soft soaping – pay or leave.

Upset about the vote for a stadium last time? Don't worry – there won't be one this time. Great community, guys... but it has to pay its way.

Of course that is the way forward to winning again and that is what we all want right?

Ian Smitham
206 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:06:35
Ray Said (#177),

I just wonder how you know or what evidence there is that these loans can not be repaid early?

Also wondered why they are renewed or whatever the phrase is each year?

Ian Smitham
207 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:16:58
My understanding is that if a Shareholder or purchaser owns over 29.9% of a Company, either in a concert party with others or by themselves, then they have to bid for the Company and all shareholders have to before offered the same deal. It is also my understanding that once 90% of the shares of a Company have been bought by a purchaser, the remaining shareholders have to sell.

Regards shareholder agreements, I would be very interested to know if these exist, and I believe it is very relevant right now to Everton. If an agreement exists, then, as I understand it the recipient of proceeds is liable to IHT on said proceeds and that is why many Companies use Buy/Sell options as they are not subject to IHT.

Phil Walling
208 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:23:05
I accept Amit's explanation of the alleged 'dodgy' loans but can only assume that, if they do become the reason for the deal collapsing, they must be very 'dodgy' indeed!
Ged Simpson
209 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:23:37
Brill. New owners, new ground, stronger team.

Naïve? Maybe but I am just a football fan...not an accountant or soothsayer! Bring it on.

Ken Buckley
210 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:24:39
The room of nonsense has been abuzz with take over talk. Good argument for along with good argument against with a dose of 'Not sure about this one' thrown in.

In the end we came to the same conclusion we did at the weekend regarding the manager's position. As fans we have our firmly held opinions but no say and rely heavily on the board to get these decisions right so that in the end we see progress.

The takeover especially, if it comes to fruition, is massive so we wish those with the power to be blessed with wisdom and deliver our club into hands that will become great Evertonian hands.

We have no say but we will judge.

Thomas Lennon
211 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:10:43
Absolutely right, Ken, we have little or no choice in the matter and we all want success. Continuing the way we are will not bring that in any sustained form. We are going to need this investment to stay where we were, never mind improve.

Everton is a football club. Football clubs aim to win. This is the only way we can stay within sight of that ambition.

Bring it on.

Paul Andrews
212 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:41:48
Paul Penrose (#75)

Looking at the link you posted,do you think our prospective new owner will pass Mr Chairman’s fit and proper test?

After all, Bill has told us repeatedly he will only sell to someone with the club’s best interest at heart.

Simon Jones
213 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:44:47
Brian Dagnall (#186);

Totally agree with your first paragraph. BK was a saviour of this club when his consortium bought the club. He is slagged off without mercy by some posters, but he bought the club he loved.

I respect anyone who has the ability to put together a deal to buy a football club because I'm only just about smart enough to buy a second hand car.

Brent Stephens
214 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:57:00
So Bill and his mates were only in it for the money. And these yanks aren't? Tch.
Paul Mackie
215 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:59:46
Simon (#200), no-one is saying that BK buying the club wasn't the right thing to do or that just anyone could have done it. It's the fact that he's done fuck all since that annoys people.

The only reason he can sell for 10 times what he paid is the Sky TV money. We have less assets than when he took over, still in the same stadium and he hasn't invested a penny more than the bare minimum.

Time for him to NAFF OFF and let someone else have a go.

Richard Lyons
216 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:01:03
I don't want investors whose attitude will be that the club is first and foremost a business. They're less likely to take the long-term view... I'd much rather have an Abramovich – or Sheikh-style sugar-daddy.
Ernie Baywood
217 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:25:09
Let's be fair ,Paul Mackie. He hasn't done naff all. The reason we have that Sky money is that we've outlasted more than half of the clubs who were in the top flight when BK took over. It is an achievement.

Is it enough? Not for me, but he's been at the helm of a club that has performed well relative to most of its competitors, if not relative to its history.

Obviously time for new ideas and a fresh approach but I'll go into it with a fair degree of trepidation.

Paul Mackie
218 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:28:48
True, Ernie... although I think that fact we're still in the EPL has more to do with Barry Horne than it does with Bill!
Brian Harrison
219 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:30:44
The Liverpool Echo are saying they believe a deal is very close, but also add that if not with this consortium there are others who are interested. I guess we are in for an interesting time over the coming weeks.
Paul Doyle
220 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:38:23
Surely waiting for the new TV money would flush a richer buyer than these two? Both are pushing 70 so we would be here again in a few years. I don't trust old men in baseball caps even though I know nothing about them and if Swansea fucked them off then?

Billy Liar and Elstone will probably pen some yarn about both of their "Pa's" being stationed at Burtonwood during "war time" and went the match when they could...

Being Everton, it will fall over once these two carpetbaggers start negotiating with the chuckle brothers and associated panhandlers running the place.

Six weeks due diligence will crunch to a halt once they realise we own nothing / have nothing and are mortgaged up to the hilt with some clause in there saying we have already borrowed against the next 50 years of TV income .

Steavey Buckley
221 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:42:16
In the meantime... the present speculation about who is going to takeover Everton FC is not going to change Everton's poor run of results of late.

Leicester City are proving you don't need loads of money to make the difference on the field, just a manager who knows what he is doing.

Brent Stephens
222 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:57:12
Steavey – the question though, in my mind, is whether Leicester's showing is sustainable. Injuries, loss of form of key players, a thin squad might all knock them much lower.

On the other hand, at least get into Europe and perform reasonably well, and that could develop a momentum of its own financially.

Mark Taylor
223 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:07:15
Just to those who say people on here know 'naff all' about Everton's financial position. Well that's up to them, because there is a lot of financial information available in the public domain for anyone caring to look and with some ability to read financials.

There are also some quite good pieces of analysis on our financial position, the pros and cons. Here is one that I think is quite easy to follow and covers most of the salient points:

The Swiss Rambler: Everton - Behind Blue Eyes

As for Bill and the boys making their sackloads of profit, I've always said that they are all in it for a buck and that there was never going to be a sale unless it hit their expectations. If the sums quoted are correct, I reckon he's had a return of roughly 12-14% pa on his investment – very attractive but not rapacious for what is a high risk investment. I don't begrudge him his pension pot Everton – Behind Blue Eyesothers had the chance to do the same as he did at the time.

Steavey Buckley
224 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:33:42
Brent: Leicester City have basically a balanced side, something Everton don't have at the moment.
Brent Stephens
225 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:37:31
Steavey, yes a nicely balanced side. Full of admiration. I just wonder whether it's sustainable.
Steavey Buckley
226 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:51:00
Put it this way, I would prefer Leicester's position in the league than Everton's, who can't even buy a win at the moment, as there are not too many easy games in the Premier League. And with Newcastle, Stoke and Spurs on the horizon, they should not be considered easy games.
Dave Abrahams
227 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:56:33
Rob (#178),

Rob, there is, however, enough evidence about the lies, deceit and failing to do the right thing by Everton – all perpetrated by Kenwright over his term as a director and chairman – to make a lot of Evertonians distrust the man completely.

If this deal comes off, he will be a hero to many, when the truth will be he has definitely looked after himself at the expense of this club and therefore most of us.

Brent Stephens
228 Posted 24/12/2015 at 13:06:37
I think we agree with each other, Steavey.
Norman Jones
229 Posted 24/12/2015 at 14:50:48
I'm finding it difficult to get too excited by this proposed takeover. The record of American owners in the Premier era is tainted to say the very least.

Of the four clubs currently controlled from USA, only Manchester United have won the league and they have become more and more a money machine as the years have gone on. Football seems to have become a side show under the wierdo Glasers in spite of their commercial success.

Our neighbours across the park have had some torrid times and it worries me that our potential 'saviours', Moores and Noell, seem cut from the same cloth as Gillette and Hicks.

The other two 'Yankee' owned clubs, Aston Villa and Sunderland look likely to drop to the Championship as they have gradually sunk to the depths in recent years under financiers Lerner and Short respectively.

Like others on this thread, I smell carpetbaggers afoot and after all the mistakes he has made during his stewardship I fear that if BK sells to this lot it will be the biggest of them all.

Out of the frying pan........

Jay Harris
230 Posted 24/12/2015 at 16:01:54
I love these people that perpetrate the myth that Bill "saved" the club and would love to see the evidence.

The facts are that Bill inherited a net asset position which for clarity means our assets were worth more than all our liabilities and within 2 years turned that into a net liability position which for clarity means we had more liabilities than assets.

If we hadn't have sold Rooney (who wasn't counted in the assets he inherited) we would have been insolvent.

So please stop this nonsense about saving the club.

Amit Vithlani
231 Posted 24/12/2015 at 16:35:53
Michael @ 193 you may be right. It is not compulsory to have a shareholders agreement. There may be none at the level of EFC itself, although I would be mightily surprised if TBH did not have one, as it is extremely unusual for a holding company not to have its own shareholders set out a framework for their rights.

Is the Heads of Terms which has been reported as being agreed between TBH and the potential buyers?

Michael Kenrick
232 Posted 24/12/2015 at 17:17:36
Amit, you may recall a couple of things about True Blue Holdings that affect the picture a little:

Firstly, the BK consortium (and there were a handful of others involved we no longer hear much about, besides the Greggs obviously) actually set up their own shares in TBH.

TBH was then a true Holding Company in that it bought out Peter Johnson's shares... and at a knock-down price, driven down over a period of around 12 months, starting from something around 𧵄 Million! I agree with you that they must have had some form of Shareholders Agreement for the TBH shares.

Secondly, it was a year or two after the TBH takeover, that TBH itself was wound up, and the Everton Shares were divvied out amongst the Politburo – I think it was only at that point that Bill Kenwright officially became Chairman (or was that later)?

So any current or impending Heads of Terms agreement will not involve TBH as it no longer exists. It will be directly with EFC Co Ltd, I imagine.

Tony Hill
233 Posted 24/12/2015 at 17:26:27
There's an interesting piece in the Mail today about Atletico Madrid with (the admittedly odious) Peter Kenyon in charge of finance and how they have managed to turn around massive debt to become very well run and on the path to competing at the top with the big clubs.

They have benefited from third party ownership when it was allowed and from connections with the agent, Mendes, but it is also a case of a club with serious strategic will and ambition and, of course, with a manager who has an iron will of his own.

We certainly can turn ourselves around but we have to become a harder, far more determined organisation with the right people in the right positions. As fans it is possible through forums like this and through direct submissions to the club to make our feelings known and we should all certainly be scrutinising this latest news.

It may prove a real chance for the club, it may not, but we cannot abdicate our responsibility to try and ensure that Everton takes the best possible course. I think this is going to be the most important 6-12 months our history.

Amit Vithlani
234 Posted 24/12/2015 at 18:40:43
Thanks for clearing that up, Michael, and good to know.

Merry xmas to you and all the TWebbers from SA. Staying at the same hotel in Durban as the England Cricket team. Wonder if any of them are Blues...

Ray Said
235 Posted 24/12/2015 at 18:51:56
Ian Smitham (#195),

Swiss Ramble states Everton have at least two major loans: (1) a 25-year loan of £21 million with an high interest rate of nearly 8%; and (2) an annual loan of near 㿀 million secured on TV money with a stonking 8% interest rate.

Andy Walker
236 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:32:12
I'm sure Bill will have done and will continue to do thorough due diligence on the potential vendor. He has the interests of our club at heart.

Those who (used to?) hold the view that Bill never had any intention of selling now seem to be worried about the credibility of the interested buyer. Make you mind up! Or do you just change your minds with the wind?

The narrative that was prevalent, ie. Bill would never sell, has just disappeared. If those who professed to this theory were so confident of it to the extent of criticising those who had a different view, why aren't they still telling us that the deal won't happen? You know who you are and so do I, come on show us your view was legit – not just deliberately antagonistic towards Bill.

Winston Williamson
237 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:40:13
Andy 225: I was one of the people who said Bill wouldn't sell and had no intention of selling the club.

However, I'm excited by this prospective takeover! If they want to improve us and then make some money on a sale, then so be it! As long as they improve us!

If they have a plan and a progressive model then it's a step up on the current regime!

Alan Casey
238 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:44:59
Just something to mull over concerning Moores in particular. I was speaking with a friend who lives in San Diego and is a big fan of the baseball team he owned. Of course I asked him what he was like as an owner and he basically said he was cheap and, after purchasing the club, it was put in the background and ignored for the most part by him.

I know he is only one of the stakeholders but just something to consider with all the optimism about this takeover. We need one but we need the right one.

Andy Walker
239 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:51:08
Good on you Winston! And you never know the deal may still fail, but I think it's clear Bill is prepared to sell so hopefully we can put that theory to bed (although if it does go tits up I suspect some who, unlike you, haven't now acknowledged their previous view that Bill won't sell, will then come out of the woodwork telling us 'I told you so')

I too am excited by a potential new buyer. A sale to any new party is obviously a risk, let's hope that IF the deal is done it's the start of a positive new era for our great club.

Paul Andrews
240 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:08:32
I think it's clear Bill is prepared to sell.....

He paid ٣million ish for his 27%. 27% of 𧶀 million is 㿢 million.

I thinks it's clear Bill will give a piggy back from London to the prospective buyers at that return

Dave Kelly
241 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:27:48
There's a lot of uncertainty surrounding these Americans. I've been trying to find out how rich they are and the answer seems to be 'very' but not billionaires. This is why I am hoping that the Chang fella comes in to scupper their bid. Chang have had a good relationship with our club for god knows how many years, enough to establish trust which is surely a highly important factor in any deal that's done. Oh and yes, he's got about twelve BILLION in his back pocket which may as well spell 'money no object' . Fingers crossed...
Tony Abrahams
242 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:30:24
Andy, I really hope Mr Kenwright is not as ill as the rumours say he his. But if the rumours are true, well think about it please. Nothing or nobody lasts forever, so why start a separate arguement at such a time?

Andy Walker
243 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:43:31
Tony, I simply don't understand your post. It's quite emotive though using the rumours around Bill's health.

Are you suggesting he's only selling now because he's gravely ill, if so I think you should have the balls to say it. If not, I apologise in advance but ask what are you saying???

There will be shareholder protection in place I'm sure, in the event of the absolute worst, God forbid.

Laurie Hartley
244 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:44:14
Ken 199 - wise words from the room of nonsense. Sometimes in life you just have to roll the dice. I hope this takeover comes off. Guaranteed to bring Goodison and the fan base back to life.

And how knows it may just be the turning point on the road to us becoming great again.

Andy Walker
245 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:58:06
Actually Tony, lets leave there. It completely inappropriate to be discussing Bill's health.
Tony Abrahams
246 Posted 24/12/2015 at 21:02:59
It's not about having the balls Andy, I've called Kenwright a fucking fraud, enough times on these pages.

If you are saying you always knew he would sell, then congratulations. I could argue with you about "our chairman" all night, but it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, as we both well know.

It's Xmas Eve, a time of peace and goodwill to all men, so I hope you have a good one Andy. Merry Christmas!!

James Flynn
247 Posted 24/12/2015 at 21:23:51
Kenright, Moores or anyone, the Club still has to be run right. Everton the same as any club.

We talk about billionaires running things. Yet, billionaires have bought into the EPL and failed. Chelsea and ManCity stay in the hunt because they're well-run.

I want our incumbents out for the same reasons been listed in here for years. I keep in mind, though, that they hire a managers and left it to him; Moyes especially, but here with Roberto. Few clubs do that; any sport, any country. Few do.

IF this deal goes thru, IF, the one thing I worry about is will the new owners get in the right guy(s) to move Everton up the Table.

Jay Harris
248 Posted 24/12/2015 at 21:47:04
the feeling in the US is that Noell and Moores are both worth over a billion currently but the estimate of 0.5 billion was made in 2008 when the economy went south and Moores got an expensive divorce.

Noell is a Harvard Business school graduate who has done spectacularly well in business which doesnt guarantee his heart is in the right place but it does suggest he knows what he is doing and has the right contacts.

For me anyone can do a beter job than the current incumbents who have shown total apathy, incomptetence and lack of ambition since BK took over.

This lot will look to make money but thta's not a bad thing if they actually have a plan to move the club on.

For all people rap on about Bill being one of us he has taken the club back light years and has only been saved by the Rooney and Arteta money and the massive increase in TV revenues.

Helen Mallon
249 Posted 24/12/2015 at 23:00:34
Just a thought before I go to bed. Will philip green allow this sale. He is making shed loads from his loans?
Ian Smitham
250 Posted 24/12/2015 at 23:29:44
Helen, just wondered, how do you know please? Can you (or anyone else) show any evidence please?
Mike McLoughlin
252 Posted 24/12/2015 at 23:54:40
I hope this isn't just another false dawn. Have read quite a lot about the prospective buyers which shows both good and bad about how they, well at least how John Jay Moores operates. What becomes apparent to me is that he is a business man who improves his wealth with every company he owns. Now in order to improve Everton he must produce another Stadium or invest in the team or both. I feel if these fellas take us over the only way is up. They have good business acumen, have great publicity, and great connections. But like sooooo many false dawns before let's wait and see
Andy Finigan
253 Posted 24/12/2015 at 00:07:40
These people will generate far more income ,the sort of income that we were entitled to years ago with clever commercial employee at this club.let's face it our current owners havnt done to good in bringing in high commercial revenues.I am sure New owners Like these who are fine tuned money men will look at our income apart from sky revenues and work out that there will be lots of potential for sponsorship and naming rights.

IMO even at 200 million (if that is the correct amount) This club can be brought and taken forward to better things.Onwards and upwards.
Christine Foster
254 Posted 25/12/2015 at 01:57:39
Andy Walker, in the past years as fans we have been subjected to attempted cons, lies and misrepresentation by the board and chairman of our club. We have been told the club is seeking investment, sale, ( not the same thing) on. 24/7 basis, we are rightly suspicious of any announcement of potential investors or any sale, particularly at this time of year. We hear that BK is seriously ill, again, rumour not fact, and as its personal, I hope it's not true but if it is serious then it may well be an extra motivator to seek a deal as soon as possible. BK would not need the hassle if he has other battles to fight. It may well be a good time to pass the reins on to another.
Peter Barry
256 Posted 25/12/2015 at 04:11:01
We need an Abramovich or Arab Sheik type owner like Chelski and Citteh people who want to spend THEIR money on the club – not people looking to make money out of the club.
Jamie Crowley
257 Posted 25/12/2015 at 06:24:30
The question of whether or not Bill is selling due to his ill health is not, in my opinion, a rude or inappropriate question whatsoever.

If he is ill - and I believe he is - he would be very wise to sell now.

There is a universal truth about the human condition, and that is people die. If I owned Everton and knew my time was limited or could be, I'd sure as hell sell before I met my maker. Give me enough time to sell and set up a trust for my family with the proceeds - would save about half of the money going to the government through inheritance taxes.

At least in this country... Not sure how it works in England.

I see no reason whatsoever to not discuss this and do not, in any way, shape, or form, see it as inappropriate or bad form.

It's reality.

And no, I'm not intelligent enough to have considered this myself. A friend threw it out there. But it seems an awfully legitimate scenario to discuss.

It might be Christmas, but "Health" if personified, doesn't give a shit what day it is. "Health" is a fickle bastard of a person, and he / she doesn't look at a calendar.

Darryl Ritchie
258 Posted 25/12/2015 at 06:34:36
I probably won't get the chance later, so I'd like wish everyone a merry Christmas and all the best in the new year.

As far as the club is concerned, it should be very interesting.

William Cartwright
259 Posted 25/12/2015 at 08:18:20
The billionaire's plaything concept is not one I am comfortable with. I would feel more confident with a hard-nosed businessman's approach to taking over and running a football club. However most billionaires tend to have good businesss savvy, connections etc. so I'm not too fussy on that point!

Dave Abrahams
260 Posted 25/12/2015 at 09:06:18
If the deal goes ahead no one knows if it will turn out well for the club, I certainly hope it does.

What there is no doubt about is that Kenwright and his cohorts will do very well out of it.

Hope all on ToffeeWeb have a great Christmas and a happy, healthy New Year.

Richard Reeves
261 Posted 25/12/2015 at 10:28:48
If those figures are correct, that's got to be the most lucrative bit of remortgaging I've ever seen. If this lot are just as opportunistic I just hope they've built a stadium before the locals turn on them. I don't think it's going to work as well if they claim to have stood in the stands as a young lad.
Ian Smitham
262 Posted 25/12/2015 at 10:29:18
Ray#224, thanks for the reply, I think the loans are common knowledge. What I was trying to understand was the terms you referred to around them being renewed and the penalties as I have not seen those phrases on here before.

Also, while I am here, is 8% a high figure? A few years ago Banks' would not even look at Football finance and I wondered if the "appetite" of Bankers has changed? If not, then second line lenders will clearly charge higher rates. And, lastly for those who know, what rates of interest are other clubs, particularly peer group clubs charged, I.e what is reasonable for Everton?

Dave Abrahams
263 Posted 25/12/2015 at 11:25:57
Ian (237) I bet you still believe in Father Christmas.
Alan McCulloch
264 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:04:22
I have been dreading this for sometime. I mean what investment do we really need? I prefer the status quo to whats to come. It just isn't worth getting an investor unless they are mega rich with sovereign wealth. All of the ones who have been moaning and putting pressure on Kenwright to sell will rue this day. I cannot believe that this measly mob are looking for anything but a quick return on their investment. They also have less than scrupulous backgrounds. They may invest in a new stadium they may not. But one things for sure they will bleed the club for profit from the TV money and of course us fan base. Prices will go up and I predict that the money for player investment will be only be marginally more than now. Sad days.
Alan McCulloch
265 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:22:36
But to mitigate my angst, I can understand that this may be driven by ill health. So I can of understand - just hope the legacy has some protection built in.
Mike McLoughlin
266 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:26:58
Alan it's not just investment, it's new ideas. This fella turned a no hope baseball team into a World Series contender. I know he went south after his protracted divorce, but I believe the change will push us on
Nicholas Ryan
267 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:42:59
Everton to be rescued by a millionaire called John Moores .... you just couldn't make it up, could you .... you just couldn't make it up!!
Denis Richardson
268 Posted 25/12/2015 at 13:30:34
Change will come at some time, why not now?

I would love for this to be true as we'd get rid of BK and bullshit Bobby in one swoop. There's no way business minded yanks are going to put up with his constant hyperbole while we fail to beat the likes of Norwich, Bournemouth, Newcastle and Leicester... in a row. I can easily see us being bottom half come Jan.

Would also like to know if the 200m is for the whole club (i.e. 100% of the shares) or just the 65% odd owned by the three directors. As a minority shareholder, would I be automatically pushed out or could I remain part owners? (Only have the share for sentimental reasons obviously.....its framed and hanging proudly in the living room....)

Interesting times anyway for all blues. Happy xmas from not so sunny Peru!

Peter Lee
269 Posted 25/12/2015 at 14:10:07
Dennis, as I understand it any offer made to take over the club is an offer to all shareholders. During the takeover of MUFC the Glazers were able to oblige all shareholders to sell their shares to them once they had control of a large majority of the shares. I think this was also the case at LFC. This facilitated the business becoming a private rather than a public company which then enabled, in the United case, the responsibility for the debt being put on the club.

Whatever intentions any new owners might have they will look for a return on their investment at least equal to what they might have gained by investing their £200m in an equally speculative enterprise. Let's say £16-20m per year. Any further investment, in players or ground, will need similar returns. Who do you think will ultimately pay this? The optimists will say that this will come from better merchandising and greater corporate sales. Do we really think that likely? The first step will be increases in season ticket prices. One of the questions in the recent survey emailed to season ticket holders asked if we had an unobstructed view and if we agreed with the proposition that the clearer your view the more you might pay.

The results of this survey will no doubt be made available to potential purchasers under due diligence.

John Keating
270 Posted 25/12/2015 at 14:20:39
So I take it that everyone who is opposed to this group, or a similar group, are quite happy for the present status quo to remain ?

I doubt there is another Abramovitch or Sheik out there for us so these type of investors are probably as good as it is going to get for us.

But eh, if all you guys think it's ok for us to drift around for years fighting for a mid table position in the present stadium with our present hands on major shareholders then great.

I suppose you'd also hand back the 100 million you'd win on the Euromillions cos it might change your present lifestyle


Jim Hardin
271 Posted 25/12/2015 at 16:07:43
Norman, Sorry for your concern over American ownership but you are being a little misleading. Yes, Man Utd are the only ones to win the title but you forget that Liverpool would have won the title but for the actions of an Englishman, in Stevie G. Liverpool ownership built a good team but who could have predicted the Suarez meltdown? If Suarez had stayed, do you think Sterling would have left? They provided tens of millions of dollars to buy players which haven't yet paid off but might. Player acquisition is always a chancy thing except for Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo, Lukaku, and Howard (couldn't help myself)

I recall Aston Villa being praised when the ownership allowed Lambert to buy young players and play them despite the inherent risks. Now that it turned sour, the owner is somehow trash and only interested in a profit because American investors only want their money? How many English or owners or oother nationalities have done similar things and failed? Slating an investor for being American is shortsighted, naive, and a little bit bigoted.

I can't wait for this deal to happen. I would have preferred the Sporting KC ownership to come in to provide a pipeline of additional American players to be loaned or sold to Everton in a reverse of the Man City-NYCFC set-up. My how that would get certain heads on TW steaming.

As for accusations of asset stripping by American ownership, wasn't that what BK and his current band have done? Is Everton in a better place asset-wise than it was before? Aside from TV money how have the current English chairman and his cronies done anything to improve the stadium, boosted retail/entertainment development in the area, or in general moved Everton forward in any real and appreciable manner?

How can any ownership group do worse? We sell players to fund other ones and the only reason we haven't this season is the TV money. I will have to get my "Everton, America's true football team, owned by Americans for Americans" banner if this comes to pass.

Ian Smitham
272 Posted 25/12/2015 at 19:48:58
Peter #251, I think I covered this at #196, interesting the numbers you offer up, the £200m paying £16-20m as a return, 8% . Looking at the figures put forward by Ray #224 and available as he describes and also in the Report andAccounts. So back to my questions of Ray #244, and it is not a pop at Ray in any way, what rate of Annual interest should a Company like Everton and its peer group expect to pay?
Ray Said
273 Posted 25/12/2015 at 21:40:29
Hello Ian (254). I don't think you are having a pop just a healthy debate among fellow blues.

The question you put is 'what rate of Annual interest should a Company like Everton and its peer group expect to pay'? My answer is that I cant give a solid figure .I think that the type of company the club had to approach when the club found themselves being refused loans by mainstream banks would be able to charge what ever rate they wished to put forward and was acceptable to the clubs owners. The financial circumstance would dictate the rate.

Ian Smitham
274 Posted 25/12/2015 at 22:14:30
Ray, top man. Let's see if anyone else can paint a picture around the rates. But, as you say, it's a discussion, and we have got it right. Cheers friend and the best for the season, either the Chrimbo one or the footie one.
Nicholas Ryan
275 Posted 26/12/2015 at 01:03:57
To change the subject [only slightly]. My dad is very seriously ill at the moment, and a Social Worker came to see us, about what sort of help & assistance he needed. After making her assessment, she said:

'You can get this from the NHS, but it will take ages ... you can get it from the local authority, but that will cost money ...
I know it sounds weird, but the best provider of these services, is something called "Everton in the Community"!

I was bursting with pride! Will the Americans [presuming they do buy] understand why that sort of thing matters to us; and matters a lot!

Alan Ross
276 Posted 26/12/2015 at 01:52:18
I predict this will turn tits up when the Americans have looked at the books. Having been asset stripped by BK and the board, Everton does not possess an attractive enough proposition for investment. Especially to those whose sole financial ethos centres on increasing the value of that investment. In order for that to happen far too much need to be spent.
Terry White
278 Posted 26/12/2015 at 04:27:54
Jim #258 and Alan #263, can you please be specific by what you mean by "asset stripping"? I think we all know that the club's primary assets are the players. What players have been sold/stripped by the majority shareholders to benefit themselves? What players have been 'sold to fund other ones" where it has not resulted in an improvement of playing quality? Be specific now.
Amit Vithlani
279 Posted 26/12/2015 at 05:29:39
Excellent post Terry #264. Asset stripping has a specific meaning which borders on fraud. There is no evidence of asset stripping when you examine the movements in the club's total assets (including player contracts). We have to put this myth to bed.

The board is guilty enough of other matters without adding unfounded accusations.

Ernie Baywood
280 Posted 26/12/2015 at 06:15:19
Nick Ryan, I'm proud to read that too.

I do wonder, though, how that squares with the calls for a hard nosed businessman? Would we be funding such schemes to that extent?

I feel like we have an identity crisis. What do we want to be? Community Club or business? I'm not sure I really know what I'd rather.

Rick Tarleton
281 Posted 26/12/2015 at 06:57:14
There seems to be a general consesus building that this is a genuine buyout. To me the key issue, if this is true, is will the new owners invest in a new ground? Without this investment Everton will remain an institution incapable of existing without generous benefactors.
A new ground will cost hundreds of millions, are Moores and co. the kind of gentleman to see such speculation as part of the deal?
Rick Tarleton
282 Posted 26/12/2015 at 07:20:15
I want a proof-reader, the word is consensus.
Thomas Lennon
283 Posted 26/12/2015 at 08:09:30
The community work makes a lot of sense at the moment as (in a hard nosed perspective) it promotes the club, keeps us in the minds of local people who might be forgetting we exist as the generations go by. It is also a valuable part of our identity. I wonder if community-based Barca do something similar?

However under leadership who have fewer links with the area I do wonder if there is any net cost how long it will be before costs will be minimised in the face of investors wanting returns in money rather than thanks.

Colin Glassar
284 Posted 26/12/2015 at 08:33:23
Before Bill and his crew take the money and run I'd like this to be voted on by, at least, the ST holders. And, only after all the terms of this "takeover" are made public.

Unlike some, I don't trust BK and his merry band of men to do the best for EFC. They will make the best deal for themselves (like rs Moores did at anfailed) and head for the hills to count their pennies.

From what I've read about these two cowboys we could be getting another Hicks and Gillette and that could be the final nail in our coffin. I hope I'm wrong.

Derek Thomas
285 Posted 26/12/2015 at 09:31:47
They must be in it for the money, so unless there is loads of cash floating about in the other operating expenses, the real money comes from 2 sources; Sky TV money and /or the CL.

Up to now, as far as I can tell, what comes in via Sky goes out in players wages and transfer fees.

So where is their profit going to come from?

CL? That might take a bit more investment. You can only up the season ticket price so far.

I think a severe dose of - 'Let's wait and see' is called for

Ernie Baywood
286 Posted 26/12/2015 at 09:41:48
Derek, if Everton are as badly run as people claim then there's plenty of easy wins. But I suspect that the easy wins aren't quite there and we'll find the current custodians failed more in the development of new markets rather than mismanagement of the infamous other operating costs.

That's not to say they won't take the easy option of cutting costs but that's not necessarily a good thing.

Even so, a gamble on the TV rights increasing looks pretty sound. The additional revenue may well end up going on players and increased wage bills, but the capital growth in the club's value would still be there.

John Keating
287 Posted 26/12/2015 at 10:17:50
Just a bit of a repeat on my post of 257
If people are not happy with these types of consortium/groups are you happy and prepared to put up with the present mob.

Everyone is going to have issues and misgivings about anyone who takes over the Club. Unless we accept that these types of groups are as good as we are going to get this conversation will be carried on by our grandchildren

Ian Smitham
288 Posted 26/12/2015 at 12:06:34
Amit and Terry excellent contributions , thanks, a dose of reality. Think I have got my facts right earlier in this thread, if the numbers are wrong perhaps you could enlighten me??

Also, Ray and I exchanged a few words around the big loans, I wondered if you had any thoughts that you could add for us please??

Brian Baker
289 Posted 26/12/2015 at 12:29:05
Any buyout has to include money for a new ground and possibly keeping BK on the board.
Brian Baker
290 Posted 26/12/2015 at 12:29:35
Any buyout has to include money for a new ground and possibly keeping BK on the board.
Terry White
291 Posted 26/12/2015 at 16:26:53
Ian #274, thank you for your comment on my modest contribution. Amit has it right also when people talk about "asset stripping". I notice that neither Jim nor Alan have made any response to our post.

Let's face it, none of us really know what the real numbers are right now, neither the existing books nor the terms of the proposed new deal. So why speculate and make wild accusations complete with the added dose of vitriol that usually accompanies these posts?

Ray Said
292 Posted 26/12/2015 at 19:57:05
You too Ian. That's the type of debate we should be having among fellow blues-save the bile for the enemy.
John Hughes
293 Posted 26/12/2015 at 20:52:08
Any news on this Jordanian who is "having talks with Bill Kenwright " he is supposed to be very interested in purchasing a club that has a good history, or is it another story by the media?
Ian Riley
294 Posted 26/12/2015 at 21:18:45
If any buyers have access to the books of any company then we are at a advanced staged. A fee for the club must have been ageed.
David Johnson
295 Posted 27/12/2015 at 11:14:49
Smoke and mirrors to draw attention away from the upcoming transfer window. Of course one day I'll be poved wrong when they actually do sell.
David Israel
296 Posted 27/12/2015 at 00:31:40
Peter Lee (#256), "(...) as I understand it any offer made to take over the club is an offer to all shareholders. During the takeover of MUFC the Glazers were able to oblige all shareholders to sell their shares to them once they had control of a large majority of the shares."

I think that only applies to publicly-quoted companies - as I've said somewhere in this long thread - and then only when someone buys at least 75% of the stock. The current board only own some 65%, anyway.

David Israel
297 Posted 28/12/2015 at 00:46:25
Sorry, Peter, still on the same subject.

I'm not sure people have to sell ther shares even in the case of someone buying at least 75% of the stock. What I do know is that the buyers have to offer the same price to the remaining shareholders. But, like I said, I also think this only applies to publicly-quoted companies.

Roger Helm
298 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:00:19
We have seen this a few times before. A potential buyer or investor sees the books as part of due diligence then runs away as fast as their legs can carry them. So I am not holding my breath. There seems to be something rotten at Goodison.

Still, an American may bring some commercial knowhow to our club for the first time, or if that fails we may attract a Jordanian sugar daddy. So we live in hope!

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