Barkley scores as England win in San Marino

by | 05/09/2015  141 Comments  [Jump to last]
Everton midfielder adds an assist alongside Stones and Jagielka
John Stones and Ross Barkley got the opportunity to press their claims for a greater role in England's senior side as they helped Roy Hodgson's side to a 6-0 win over San Marino.

The Everton duo were joined by club team-mate Phil Jagielka as England booked their place in next summer's finals with a predictable thumping victory over the minnows.

Playing alongside Swansea's Jonjoe Shelvey on a poor pitch, Barkley played a supporting role as England took a 2-0 lead into half time. Former Everton player, Wayne Rooney equalled Bobby Charlton's scoring record with his 49th goal with a penalty.

Stones was largely untroubled at centre half alongside Jagielka but was involved in the incident that led to the penalty and also might have scored with a header from a corner.

Barkley, meanwhile, grew into the game more in the second half and scored just 13 seconds after the interval with a well-placed header from Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain to make it 3-0.

The Blues' midfielder later added an assist to put Theo Walcott through with impressive footwork and a defense-splitting pass that the Arsenal man converted.

All three Everton players played the full 90 minutes as England ran out 6-0 winners.

On the back of an impressive first season in Everton's first team in 2013-14, Stones was named in Roy Hodgson's provisional squad for the World Cup in Brazil last year but did not make the final 23 after Manchester United's Phil Jones recovered in time from injury.

Since then the 21-year-old has had to be content with substitute appearances at senior level, often at right back, but was selected for the the Three Lions' ill-fated Under-21 European Championship campaign, only to miss two to the three group games with a concussion.

Barkley, made the plane to the World Cup but, thankfully, played only a bit part in what was a disastrous campaign and has mostly had to be content with appearances off the bench since.  

Reader Comments (141)

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Paul Hewitt
1 Posted 04/09/2015 at 19:29:50
Good game for Stones to start in. Shouldn't be too much for him to do?. Hope you plays next to Jags and not Terry.
Colin Glassar
2 Posted 04/09/2015 at 19:37:15
Good luck to the lad. He might even score.
James Stewart
3 Posted 04/09/2015 at 19:42:46
Red Roy waking up to the fact that Stones might actually be better than Smalling and Phil Jones if Mourinho thinks so. Wish this international rubbish was over so the real football could start again.
Colin Glassar
4 Posted 04/09/2015 at 20:14:59
I see the ROI are playing their usual pub football game. And to think some people considered MON as a possible Everton manager.
Barry McNally
5 Posted 04/09/2015 at 20:31:38
Colin, you can only play with cards you're dealt! Having said that O'Neill lost the fire in his belly a long time ago.
Dave Abrahams
6 Posted 04/09/2015 at 20:31:40
I'm glad John Stones is playing again for England, but no one should get caps for playing against teams like San Moreno, should be a stroll for him, I imagine the Barnsley match was harder last week.
Colin Glassar
7 Posted 04/09/2015 at 20:36:49
It's funny how certain countries have golden generations e.g. Hungary ('50s), Denmark ('80s), Ireland and Yugoslavia ('90s) and Portugal and Croatia (mid '90s to mid noughties) and are now average to say the least. At least Belgium seem to be on the way back from their great team of the '80s.
Andy Meighan
9 Posted 04/09/2015 at 21:05:11
With all due respect, I think at 56, knees absolutely destroyed, cocky's hut hanging over the shorts and a terrible lack of pace (which, by the way, I never possessed even at my peak...ahem) , I reckon I could start against San Marino. Just saying like, boys.
Brin Williams
10 Posted 04/09/2015 at 21:08:28
CG 6 'It's funny how certain countries have golden generations'
Tony Marsh
11 Posted 04/09/2015 at 21:16:03
I wish he wasn't playing for England. I can't stick 'em and Everton's luck with players and injuries worries me sick.

On the other hand, the value of Stones might go up another £10 million in January when Chelsea come a-calling again.

This Euro qualification thing is a joke. The richest and most powerful football nations on Earth playing what amounts to Sunday League level nations to go through. What is the point?
Joe Foster
12 Posted 04/09/2015 at 21:25:56
McGeady stealing a living as a footballer.
Steavey Buckley
13 Posted 04/09/2015 at 22:04:14
England have wasted all week training to play the all conquering minnows and part timers of San Marino, when they should have played them on Wednesday and played their final game on Sunday against Switzerland.

This would give Premier League players a chance to get ready for their up-and-coming games real premier opposition with their respective clubs - it's not as though England players have met for the first time.

Graham Mockford
14 Posted 04/09/2015 at 22:09:54

It's official Gareth Bale is now ahead of England in the world rankings.

Fair dos though I have an affinity for Wales (other than Michael Owen) having worked there for a number of years.

Seeing them in a major tournament after 58 years is brilliant.

Sean Kelly
15 Posted 04/09/2015 at 22:12:57
Colin, it's pub football alright but it's after-hours pub football. Shite and no control. Martin O'Neill is a has-been with Steve fucking Guppy and the gobshite from Cork at his side. Jokers.
Harold Matthews
16 Posted 04/09/2015 at 22:14:59
Glad it's only San Marino. Our boy has been in dreamland the last two games.
Sean Kelly
17 Posted 04/09/2015 at 22:18:01
Harold, he'd better wake up before we face Maureen and the evil one wearing 26.
Mark Dunford
19 Posted 04/09/2015 at 23:46:47
Who really cares? Main thing is no injuries to any Everton players. The international football racket is even worse than Sky's Premier League.
Dave Lynch
20 Posted 04/09/2015 at 23:50:50
I'll be following Northern Ireland in the Euros.

Fuck Engerland and its phoney southern support...

Liu Weixian
21 Posted 05/09/2015 at 01:22:57
Oh no... Stones is going to have his head turned by the scum in the England squad.
Jon Cox
22 Posted 05/09/2015 at 01:37:29
Dave, I was listening to the NI game tonight and I wanted them to win.

But after reading your comment (15) about England? I'm it's Northern support. So where do I stand?

I don't mind anyone supporting their own country but please, I don't want to hear anyone slagging off England like I have to listen to, day after day from the so-called English media.

All I ask is, as I'm an Everton and "Engerland" supporter could you please just for once, give me a break?

Mark Andersson
24 Posted 05/09/2015 at 03:14:49
Not a fan of international football since Gazza retired. England are more boring than Everton at their worst.

Looking forward to the Chelsea game. It should be a great atmosphere.

Harold Matthews
25 Posted 05/09/2015 at 04:05:42
Jon. What Dave does is his own business. I'll be supporting England and the famous red and white flag is already fluttering from my front window.
Matt Traynor
26 Posted 05/09/2015 at 04:39:18
Weixian #19, for once Stones has company in the squad, with Jags and Barkley. Hopefully they'll keep a lid on it.

It's good for Wales (and likely N Ireland) but it shouldn't be forgotten that this is largely down to the finals being extended from 16 to 24 teams.

Given Wales are now ranked above England, they'll surely romp to Russia 2018 qualification right?

Oh shower of Scotland....

David Chait
27 Posted 05/09/2015 at 06:10:37
Shows you what a bit of press can do for you.... Good luck to him! I love seeing my Blue Boys representing their country!
Mike Green
28 Posted 05/09/2015 at 06:36:13
Stones will one day captain England, hopefully he'll do it whilst playing for us... and if he does, it'll be a great day for him and our club.

Dave #18 - always good to hear a balanced view, sounds like you've got a chip on both shoulders.....

Come On England and here's to Stones running the show.

Pete Edwards
30 Posted 05/09/2015 at 08:26:34
Matt, your point is what exactly regarding Wales? They are top of the group, one win away from qualification, so makes no difference at all that the number of teams to qualify has been extended!
Sam Hoare
31 Posted 05/09/2015 at 09:54:54
I think Stones and Smalling could well be our CB pairing for England next Summer. Smalling has looked decent this season.
Colin Glassar
32 Posted 05/09/2015 at 10:11:26
LES? You've got me there, Brin.
Dave Abrahams
33 Posted 05/09/2015 at 10:40:53
Colin, read the capital letters in dark print.
Murdo Laing
34 Posted 05/09/2015 at 11:22:38
The question of who Stones is paired with at CB is of most interest to me: If it's Cahill, that would be a bit ironic?

On a slightly different theme, there is the question of whether Wayne gets his hat-trick against San Marino and thus becomes England's most prolific goalscorer? I hope he does, he has made a great career for himself and he may yet end up lifting a trophy for the national side. (Yes! I've had too many bottles of Sam Adams last night!)

They pondered Rooney's attainment on the radio, and offered alternative names for the national side's "best ever" goalscorers. Two other exEvertonians were mentioned, namely the great Tommy Lawton and the peerless Dixie Dean. It's part of EFC's rich history that we have provided players who have gone on to be England stalwarts (Ball, Labone, Lineker) and Stonesy will put on that armband one day I am sure.

Brian Hill
35 Posted 05/09/2015 at 12:02:58
Brin, as Graham alluded to in post 13, Wales doesn't have a golden generation, it has a golden player.
Harold Matthews
36 Posted 05/09/2015 at 13:08:16
Yes Sam, Smalling is much improved this year.

Interesting to read that Rooney refused to join United when he was 14, also when he was 16. Fergie says it was very difficult to get him away from Everton.

Dave Abrahams
37 Posted 05/09/2015 at 13:29:41
Harold (32), It was relatively well known that Man Utd and Man City were interested in signing Rooney as a very young boy; lots of stories about both clubs trying to influence Rooney's family to join their clubs.
Harold Matthews
38 Posted 05/09/2015 at 14:24:44
Cheers Dave.
Colin Glassar
39 Posted 05/09/2015 at 14:27:31
I'm still lost Dave. I must still be half asleep or just thick.
Mike Barrett
40 Posted 05/09/2015 at 15:38:41
Jeez, Colin...

W A LES!!!!

Keep up, man!!!

Chris Wilson
41 Posted 05/09/2015 at 16:18:52
I know it's only a match against San Marino, but Everton are the most represented club in the starting XI. Stones, Jags, and Barkley all starting:

Hart; Clyne, Shaw, Stones, Jags; Shelvey, Milner, Barkley, Oxlade-Chamberlain; Vardy, Rooney

I wonder if Roy is pairing Stones with Jags rather than Cahill (whom the media will tell you is a vastly superior defender because he plays with John Terry) because he thinks it works better, or to avoid controversy?

Sam Hoare
42 Posted 05/09/2015 at 17:45:55
Shelvey is actually a very good player. Solid and creative from deep. A better, fitter Gibson. Controversial but think he'd do more for us than McCarthy...
David Hallwood
43 Posted 05/09/2015 at 18:14:02
Good shout, Sam (#37). I always liked him when he played with our nearest & dearest and would've like him with us

Plus with him being a Nosferatu look-a-like he'll be good in the night games.

Jamie Barlow
44 Posted 05/09/2015 at 18:18:41
Captain Jags?
Graham Mockford
45 Posted 05/09/2015 at 18:22:36
Last Everton player to wear the England captains armband?
Ged Simpson
46 Posted 05/09/2015 at 18:30:01
Is it me or are England a great tranquilliser ?

I always think they represent knuckle heads from down south regardless who plays.

Øystein Heggelund
47 Posted 05/09/2015 at 18:50:34
Funes Mori scored for Argentina today.
Ray Roche
48 Posted 05/09/2015 at 18:57:23
I don't think Funes scored. Aguerro, Messi, Ezequiel Lavezzi each scored two and Angel Correa scored the other. A clean sheet, though.
Øystein Heggelund
49 Posted 05/09/2015 at 19:03:46
You're right. I don't know where Norwegian goal service VG live get their info from...
Ian Robert
50 Posted 05/09/2015 at 19:04:01
I think England are damned either way; they can only score the goals... which they did today. All the knockers need only look at the table. If they win every game, how can we fault them? Nice seeing the Everton players... shame Baines is injured.
Mark Frere
51 Posted 05/09/2015 at 19:11:01
Who exactly are knocking England over this result, Ian? The main issue I have is I just find International Qualifying football boring as fuck... and it just spoils a good weekend of footie. Roll on Chelsea.
Brent Stephens
52 Posted 05/09/2015 at 19:34:57
Colin - take the capital W in "What" etc - and it spells?
Brin Williams
53 Posted 05/09/2015 at 19:54:58
Brian 31 Yes - but there again you are not Welsh are you.

You think Evertonians have suffered? You should be a Welsh Evertonian then you would know a thing or two about suffering.

LIN wake up for fuck's sake.

Sean Keigher
54 Posted 05/09/2015 at 20:05:09
Yarmolenko on target for Ukraine. Can't help but think what might have been.
Joe Foster
55 Posted 05/09/2015 at 20:31:37
Nice one, Barkley.
Barry Roberts
56 Posted 05/09/2015 at 20:46:43
Matt 23, Wales top their group; so where does the 24 rather than 16 argument apply?
Jamie Barlow
57 Posted 05/09/2015 at 21:20:35
Go on Graham, who is it?
Tony Abrahams
58 Posted 05/09/2015 at 21:27:34
Was it Waggy?
Drew Shortis
59 Posted 05/09/2015 at 21:31:11
I remember the early nineties when I was excited that we had Martin Keown in the England team. We have improved a lot since those days.

Stones, Baines, Jagielka and Barkley all currently in the first team with Osman, Cleverley, Lennon & Barry all either ex-England or potential recalls.

Add to that a large group of youngsters in the youth teams. Probably the biggest Everton contingent since the mid eighties!

Ian Robert
60 Posted 05/09/2015 at 21:35:33
Mark #47... many on here do and are knocking England or supporting their nation.

ps: If you think all Premier League footy is exciting you're deluded.

Peter Bell
61 Posted 05/09/2015 at 21:39:38
Last Everton player to captain England?

Didn't Lescott get the armband at some stage in that game of about 9 subs and the player going off passed the armband on? I think there ended up being about 6 different captains in the same game

Tom Bowers
63 Posted 05/09/2015 at 23:46:19
Yes, these qualifying games are boring and many teams are no better than Sunday league as San Marino are.

I am a big Rooney fan and he has scored some great goals. However, Rooney's goalscoring record shouldn't compare to Bobby Charlton's simply because, when Charlton was scoring his international goals, it wasn't against teams like Moldova, Lichtenstein or San Marino.

A lot of these ''teams'' weren't around then as they where part of bigger countries before breaking up due to the demise of the Iron Curtain and other factors.

Joe Foster
64 Posted 06/09/2015 at 00:43:18
You can only play what's in front of you. Records are records; it's not Rooney's fault. It's like comparing boxers from the 70s to boxers nowadays.
Colin Glassar
65 Posted 06/09/2015 at 01:11:36
Still don't get it.
Nicholas Randall
66 Posted 06/09/2015 at 01:26:17
I think Gary Lineker may have been the last Everton player to captain England.
Minik Hansen
67 Posted 06/09/2015 at 02:20:33
Rooney's record and Barkley's first England goal. New Rooney in the making? :)
James Marshall
68 Posted 06/09/2015 at 07:12:59
Colin, I don't understand either. Thanks for making me feel less of an idiot than I usually do.

As for England, I agree that International football can sometimes be a bit dull but I still love the big Championship games so I don't understand why people slate the qualifiers and the fact we play against rubbish teams quite a bit.

What would you prefer, just have all the top teams turn up every few years and not bother with any qualification matches simply because those countries mean nothing to you? National pride still exists even if they lack the strength and talent to win enough games to get there.

It's a very modern, blinkered, selfish view to say a lot of things in this thread, bordering on xenophobic at times. Football is the people's game, the world game, the simple, beautiful game that everyone loves; let them all play, let them play against the best... it's all part of the rich tapestry of the sport we all love. Call me an old romantic, but I still believe in the spirit of football, even if it's being ruined by money and greed at the higher echelons.

Go and watch a non-league or Sunday league game once in a while. Remind yourself.

Graham Mockford
69 Posted 06/09/2015 at 08:20:26
Jamie / Peter

I asked the question hoping someone might know the answer.

Certainly and rather amazingly no Everton player has ever captained England at the start of a game.

I don't recall the Lescott one but, as you say, the armband can get passed around a bit in friendly games.

Colin Glassar
70 Posted 06/09/2015 at 09:02:20
Cheers James. Why not just say Wales? But now I see it clearly. Brin, do you really consider this Welsh side so highly? I'd love to see Wales back in a big tournament.
Keith Harrison
71 Posted 06/09/2015 at 09:10:00

I think you might find Jill Scott or another EFC lady may have mate. Not sure, but we had over half of the Women's team before money raised its ugly head in the Ladies game.

John Crawley
72 Posted 06/09/2015 at 09:16:27
Colin you mentioned about countries having golden generations and Brin asked you what about Wales. He disguised the word 'Wales':
Brin Williams
73 Posted 06/09/2015 at 09:58:57
Colin 65 - 'do you really consider this Welsh side so highly?'

Colin, when you have been in the wilderness for 50-odd years, the prospect of nirvana is certainly appealing. How you get there or who delivers that promise is neither here or there. The fact that it is a possibility is what counts and to live for the moment (to use Roberto's phraseology).

Do I consider this Welsh side so highly? They are certainly on the verge of achieving something far better than some of their more illustrious predecessors could.

Perhaps a half-decent team with one or two stars is what we would all like.

John Keating
74 Posted 06/09/2015 at 10:56:43
Steavey 12

Exactly right. Piss-Poor Planning.

Chris Corn
75 Posted 06/09/2015 at 11:38:18
Joe @ 59. Regarding Rooney and Charlton, I've just read that Charlton scored 15 goals against the home nations and 5 against Luxembourg. So not all his goals were against elite opposition either.
Paul Andrews
76 Posted 06/09/2015 at 11:46:29

A record is a record.
Too many wanting to pull Rooneys achievements apart.
One of the biggest mistakes is the often repeated "Rooney never fulfilled his potential"

Top scorer for England ahead of all the great names.
He will be top scorer for Utd ahead of some all time greats.
Not bad for a Croxteth kid

Gerry Quinn
77 Posted 06/09/2015 at 12:04:05
And who would have thought just 2 years ago how the "minnows" of Iceland would be winning in Amsterdam, and topping their group, deservedly so...also the "minnows" of Wales!
Mike Childs
78 Posted 06/09/2015 at 12:07:39
As Sam and Harold have pointed out the improvement in Smalling's game is one of LVG's best accomplishments at MU. Glad to hear about the defense-splitting pass by Ross even more than the header. Fingers crossed this is his year to shine.

Rumour Mill now has Yarmolenko on his way to Barca in January. How could he ever choose them over us?

Graham Mockford
79 Posted 06/09/2015 at 12:39:44
Chris (#70),

Absolute myth about Charlton scoring against top quality opposition and Rooney's coming against weak sides.

He was certainly not averse to filling his boots against weakened sides. Not only 5 against Luxembourg, but 5 against the USA (and they were a much different proposition in the 60s) and another hat-trick against Mexico in an 8-0 victory.

The international fixture list looks very different to 50 years ago with a lot more qualifying games but those that like to belittle Rooney's achievement in being England's joint top scorer EVER are clutching at straws.

The blot on Rooney's international career has been his relatively poor tournament record but of course even here people conveniently forget he was the best player in 2004.

Tony George
80 Posted 06/09/2015 at 12:47:12
I don't think any of our club's representatives let themselves down although I did feel Jonjo Shelvey made more of an impact in midfield than did our Ross. Given JJ's antecedents, I don't expect that to be a universally popular view but it's as I saw it. And it's only England we are talking about!

Also, congrats to Rooney for equaling Sir Bobby's scoring record although I've always thought Lineker's goals per game record with England was that much more remarkable.

Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 06/09/2015 at 12:53:52
Graham (#74), it is all about opinions. Rooney and Charlton are both great players, or rather Charlton was. I enjoyed watching both of them, personally I couldn't split them.

By the way, Graham, are you not belittling Bobby Charlton's goalscoring record for England in one of your paragraphs.

Dominic Tonge
82 Posted 06/09/2015 at 12:59:02
Lescott didn't captain England as an Everton player, he took the armband when Frank Lampard was subbed vs San Marino (22 March 2013). I believe he was a Man City player then; the date sticks out because it's my birthday.
Graham Mockford
83 Posted 06/09/2015 at 13:24:27

Not at all, never saw him play personally but I was just pointing out if you play 100+ internationals you are going to go against some weaker sides. And anyone who gets a goal every other game over such a long period is a very good player.

I often hear the line that the reason Rooney has scored so many goals is because he has done it against poor opposition but never any mention of Charlton's goals against poorer sides. I don't think it devalues either player.

Dave Abrahams
84 Posted 06/09/2015 at 13:33:39
Graham (#77), fair enough, the fact that they both played over 100 games for England tells you they are very, very good players.

My own personal England scorer was and is Jimmy Greaves, absolute class and a very modest footballer; no hysterics when he scored, just a little hand up in the air and he jogged back to the centre line, just marvellous to watch. I never begrudged him a goal, even when it was against the Toffees.

Phil Bellis
85 Posted 06/09/2015 at 14:14:28
Charlton was two-footed, had a thunderbolt shot and was absolute quality

I place him third behind Best and Bally as the greatest outfield players I've seen in the flesh

Dave (#78),
Totally agree about Jimmy Greaves; made it look so easy and he is indeed a very humble, genuine man

As for England goalscorers, of all the players who have scored more than 10 goals for England, only a handful have averaged more than one goal a game — one, of course, being The Great Man.

Matt Traynor
86 Posted 06/09/2015 at 14:17:39
Dave (#78), the one time Shearer brought a smile to my face was on a show last year when they were talking about goal celebrations. Anyway, one of the studio guests pointed out that Shearer's, like the man himself, was a bit boring (just the hand in the air). Shearer's come back was "Did it 346 times, mate".
Dave Abrahams
87 Posted 06/09/2015 at 16:10:04
Phil (#81), yes there was nothing to dislike about Bobby Charlton, another unassuming man who just loved playing football with a great temperament, like Tom Finney, who for me was the best Brittish player I ever saw.

The best player I ever saw (only on TV) was Alfredo Di Stefano, who played for three countries plus Real Madrid. He played as a striker but could have played in any position on the field, he was that good; again, another player with a great temperament.

Graham Mockford
88 Posted 06/09/2015 at 16:21:49
Dave (#83),

I can attest to him being a nice guy. I played golf with him once and, even in his 70s, he was too good for me.

File that one under name-dropping!!

Brin Williams
89 Posted 06/09/2015 at 16:34:43
Dave Abrahms (#83) – I agree with Di Stefano but would also include Gento and Puskas!!
Stu Smith
90 Posted 06/09/2015 at 17:14:44
I'm a bit disappointed with some comments on here about San Marino. Yes they are a poor side but... by playing the likes of England etc it may inspire younger generations to play and hopefully they will become a stronger nation.

I recall as a 12-year-old watching England hitting 5 or 6 goals against Turkey for the Italia 90 qualification and they were then deemed a waste of time but look at them now. A tough game.

Just think of all the World Cups we could have won when we deemed ourselves far too superior to play in tournaments. Now we have one World Cup to our name not impressive for the country of origin!

Anthony Hawkins
91 Posted 06/09/2015 at 18:16:50
The challenge against Rooney is that he has rarely scored during a European Finals or World Cup, which are against the elite. Yes, everyone points to the excuses or 'reasons'. The truth is that he simply hasn't excelled at the premium opportunities when the world's spotlight is on him, Messi, Ronaldo etc.

For me, Rooney will never be in the same bracket as the greats for that very reason, or until he does.

That being said, the record books will only quote the number of goals scored.

Dave Abrahams
92 Posted 06/09/2015 at 18:32:57
Brin (84) Puskas, yeh, I loved him. Gento, very good but not at their level. Then again, it's all about opinions: one man's meat is another man's poison.
Brian Harrison
93 Posted 06/09/2015 at 18:34:16
For me, I don't think Rooney is as good as Bobby Charlton was. Charlton could hit a ball with either foot from distance, I only seem to remember him scoring from outside the box.

As for out-and-out goalscorers then Greaves was undoubtedly the best 44 goals in 57 games for England. Especially when both Charlton and Rooney took over 40 games to pass his total.

I was also lucky enough to see Di Stephano, Gento and Puskas play live against Man Utd in the late 50s. Best team at the time, wish I could have seen that side play the Barca team of a couple of years ago.

Colin Glassar
94 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:11:38
Di Stefano, Gento, Puskas etc .....were before my time but I did see Bobby Charlton play and yes, I think he was better than Rooney.

The Manchester United side of the late '60s (Stepney, Foulkes, Charlton, Law, Best etc....) was really a great team and were generally given a good reception wherever they played, unlike Leeds who everyone hated.

Brin Williams
95 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:15:11
I remember sitting it the Upper Gwladys Street and the crowd singing "I want to be Bobby's girl' every time Charlton had the ball – early sixties. Don't know whether that was meant to be a good reception or what!
Ray Roche
96 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:15:27
No mention yet of the incomparable John Charles. Well there is now.
Brin Williams
97 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:21:54
Ray, I only ever saw Big John play once, Wales V England Cardiff - I think he was getting past it then tho' - saw his brother Mel play several games for Arsenal (in goal).

Charlton B is always compared to Eusebio in my mind.

Colin Glassar
98 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:22:57
Anyone else see Alison Rudd on Sunday Supplement today having a bit of a dig at Ross for not taking the game by the scruff of the neck? Now I find Alison quite intriguing I.e an attractive woman who knows her football, but the other journos jumped down her neck when they stated, quite rightly, that Ross probably feels inhibited after the bollocking Roy gave him last year.
Ray Roche
99 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:23:33
Yes, Brin, I saw Mel play several times myself. Always a strong affinity with Everton and Wales.
Martin O'Sullivan
100 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:25:42
One of the things I seem to remember about the United side of the late sixities is that we always beat them quite handsomely on their visits to Goodison, Best, Law and Charlton notwithstanding. Probably a trick of my memory. But always have had a soft spot for United, especially under Ferguson where they proved to be Liverpool's nemesis.
Tony Hill
101 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:44:31
Colin, I have always blamed Hodgson for undercutting Ross at the very moment he was set to become a major influence for England and for us. He had been brilliant against Ecuador and this halfwit, with a long record of inadequacy, chose to slap him down. It ruined Ross for the World Cup - you could sense him refusing to play by his instincts - and it then ruined him fir us last season.

He is just about recovering now and his great talent shows through almost despite himself, as it did last night when he was still gripped by dread of offending Roy, but was able to produce that lovely run for the Walcott goal and then the equally lovely pass for Kane late on which Harry duly fucked up.

There is no-one, apart from Wilshere at his best, who offers that sort of ability for England. I said on another thread last week that I no longer saw Ross as a number 10 but when he plays spontaneously and without thinking too hard, he is a joy to behold.

Tony George
102 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:47:29
Stu at 84, Burscough would have been more difficult opponents although that pitch was nowhere near Evo-Stik standard so the game would never have taken place.

But if Uefa sanction this nonsense, you can only judge the players on how they perform when called upon to do so. As far as inspiring kids, I don't know of too many who aspire to play for Burscough – and I live here!

Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:55:06
Martin (#94), I always had a soft spot for Man Utd, even before Munich; after Munich, lots of people were rootin' for United.

The games they played immediately after Munich must have been some of the most emotional football matches ever played anywhere in the world. I think the first one was against Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup on mid-week night game. Poor Wednesday... the whole of the country wanted United to win; they did, 3-0, if my memory is correct.

Colin Glassar
104 Posted 06/09/2015 at 19:56:21
Totally agree, Tony, the lad's confidence just seemed to drain out of him after being humiliated on national TV. No wonder Roberto spent all last season bigging him up.

Last night, he set up two, scored one, played high and deep, showing he can be flexible and tactically aware. I also thought Shelvey played well yesterday

Peter Mills
105 Posted 06/09/2015 at 20:15:07
Colin and Martin, I also enjoyed those Man Utd games at Goodison in the late '60s – especially Johnny Morrisey kicking hell out of John Fitzpatrick and Fitzpatrick getting sent off.

Oh for a left winger like Moggsy in our current team, just what we need. Hard as nails and a brilliant crosser of the ball from the left.

Colin Glassar
106 Posted 06/09/2015 at 20:20:35
Morrisey was class. You don't see his sort anymore do you?
Tony Hill
107 Posted 06/09/2015 at 20:33:39
The only man Tommy Smith was frightened of.
Andy Finigan
108 Posted 06/09/2015 at 20:35:30
Just maybe young John and Ross will get the confidence needed to help in their football. As our manager has said, Ross will only improve the more he plays.

As for John, now that he knows his future is with us, maybe he will focus on getting back to his best.

Dave Abrahams
109 Posted 06/09/2015 at 20:39:46
Tony (101), don't be kidded by Smith. He was a bluff merchant, played to the gallery and picked his mark.
Tony Hill
110 Posted 06/09/2015 at 20:52:44
Yes him and the yard dog Yeats. It's strange to remind myself how consistently I have loathed them all. Wrong of me, I'm sure, but it can't be helped.
Dave Abrahams
111 Posted 06/09/2015 at 21:34:36
Tony it's not wrong of you, you remind me of myself, you don't really hate them,it's the way they get you. Yeats by the way was a genuine fella off the pitch, not sure of Smith, in love with himself, it didn't do him a lot of good when he played the hard man off the pitch, came unstuck a couple of times, to my knowledge.
Harold Matthews
112 Posted 06/09/2015 at 22:15:43
Hodgson sounds like he's favouring Shelvey over Ross. Less skilful but less risk I suppose. Our boy is definitely not allowed to play his normal game for England.
Paul Hewitt
113 Posted 06/09/2015 at 22:20:45
Harold, Hodgson wouldn't know talent if it fell on his head.
Peter Mills
114 Posted 06/09/2015 at 23:13:47
C'mon Boys. Let's not get too soft. I've sung that song so many times - "Oh we hate Bill Shankly and we hate St John, but most of all we hate Big Ron". I've been bollocked for introducing it at inopportune moments, like family weddings and funerals.

I may not mean the words being aimed at those individual human beings (although Smith is quite unpleasant), but the general sentiment is one that is very, very close to my heart.

Laurie Hartley
115 Posted 06/09/2015 at 23:45:03
Brian # 87 - Charlton did score a lot of goals from outside the box for both Utd and England. I can remember him running at defenders with the ball, doing a "body swerve" either way (no step overs in them days), getting a sight on goal and burying it into the back of the net from 25 yards out with either foot. He was also very very strong, took a lot of stick and never moaned. He just got on with it. A great player.
Vishal Poorundersingh
116 Posted 07/09/2015 at 06:28:34
I will support all British and Irish teams for the Euro 2016. When the Republic of Ireland, Scotland or England plays, the support, the atmosphere are different. I like that. It's difficult for IRE and SCO but at least for the first time we can watch Wales.
Ray Roche
117 Posted 07/09/2015 at 09:23:04
Dave Abrahams, Tony Hill,

You're right, Smith was basically a coward who picked on players who wouldn't or couldn't react to his bullying; however, when he came across someone like Morrissey he'd give them a wide berth. Morrissey was a terrific winger with pace, skill and a great crosser of the ball as well as being hard as nails, hence the oft told story regarding Jack Charlton and his little black book. Yeats, though, off the field, was a real gent and a proper football man.

I also remember Bobby Charlton being interviewed and recalling how United rarely came away from Goodison with as much as a point, he was very generous in his remarks about Everton as a team and a club. Good man. Tremendous player.

Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 07/09/2015 at 10:32:20
Peter (109), when the ale's in, the wit is out, so I react when I've had a few.

Going to Wembley in 1966 from the Leprechaun, a pub off Scotland road, the whole coach was singing,

"Oh the sheer delight of a Wednesday night When Inter Milan scored three And big Ron Yeats nearly got sent off For pushing the referee Oh the sheer delight of a Wednesday night When Inter Milan scored three."

Etc etc, there was quite a few verses which I can't remember now. It was in relation, for younger readers, to Liverpool getting knocked out of the European Cup.

Hugh Jenkins
119 Posted 07/09/2015 at 13:16:16
Graham (13) - It may have escaped your notice - LOL, but Michael Owen elected to play for England - not Wales. So technically, he does not count as being a Welshman for this purpose. Glad to hear you enjoyed your time working in Wales.
Roger Helm
120 Posted 07/09/2015 at 15:01:18
Ray # 91 you beat me to it. John Charles is still revered in Italy even if the Leeds ignoramuses have forgotten him.

The best at CB and CF, the best header of a ball ever, the Italians would play him CF first half and when he'd scored (often a header from outside the box), play him at CB and defend the one-nil lead!

Also, perhaps the most gentlemanly player ever: never even cautioned, I think.

Dave Abrahams
121 Posted 07/09/2015 at 15:25:20
Roger (#115) re John Charles: a great, great player in the two positions you mention, saw him a few times at Goodison, in one of them Don Donavan playing at centre-half for Everton against John Charles at centre-forward was voted MotM in a 2-1 for Everton, got quite a lot of press reports at the time.
Ray Roche
122 Posted 07/09/2015 at 15:41:58
Roger, for anyone is unsure of just how great Charles was, on YouTube you can see the TV documentary made to celebrate his 70th birthday (I think) and it mentions his God-like status in Italy. Worth a look for a touch of nostalgia...
Paul McGinty
123 Posted 07/09/2015 at 16:50:01
Back to Bobby Charlton. Seems like a humble , individual..which helped his popularity even among Blues of a certain age. Came through big time in 1966 for England...and as a plater adapted his game from a winger to a goalscoring midfield plater as the game changed. Worth remembering throughout much of his England career, there were no subs, so the best 11 played and there was no artificial pulling off a player to help recovery for the clubs next league game. Thats part of the reason why Kendall was uncapped as was John Hurst and Colin Harvey plated just once for the full England team. Paradoxically when Charlton left the game in the 1970 World cup quarters with England winning 2 zero versus Germany , that substitution was widely blamed for the crushing 3-2 defeat which was really the beginning of the end for the National team.
My fondest memory of Charlton occurred in 1969 Dec.. We had just lost at home to the Reds 3 nil..the sandy Brown own goal game. Following week....Alan Whittle broke away and we got a 1 -nil away at West Ham and Man U stuffed Liverpool 4 -1 at Anfield. .It helped the blues rebound to the eventual Championship win and stopped the REDs momentum in its tracks. A Charlton Special as they were referred to then was the final nail,,,If I remember both games were featured on MOTD so thinking should be somewhere on You Tube. Charlton for his longevity, attitude on and off the field , and his undoubted skill was worthy of every honor thats come to him.
Ray Atherton
124 Posted 07/09/2015 at 18:48:30

The greatest Welsh player of all, Roy Vernon. He played with a very good Welsh team in early '60s. The Allchurch brothers, Ivor and Len; Cliff Jones, Terry Medwin, wingers at Spurs; Mike England, Blackburn and Spurs; Phil Woosnam, Wynn Davies, a few names that the Welsh fans of that era would recall.

The Blues had a Welsh lad who played a few games, Gerry Humphreys. I went to see England Under-21s (or was it Under-23s?) versus Wales youngsters. Howard Kendall and John Hurst played and Gerry played for the Welsh side at Wrexham"s ground.

Gerry Humphreys was in the Everton team that annihilated Leicester City 7-1 at Goodison in 1968. I think Peter Shilton was making his debut that day.


Sam Hoare
125 Posted 07/09/2015 at 19:15:34
In other news the new boy Leandro Rodriguez has scored for the U21s with practically his first touch. Let's hope he's not another Vellios...
Brin Williams
126 Posted 07/09/2015 at 19:19:00
Happy days Ray, I remember them well - altho' my recollection of Vernon is a little scant as it was in his latter years at Everton that I became an Evertonian.

I worked in London in the early '60s and saw Spurs, Arsenal, Fulham and very little of Chelsea. The ones that stand out were Blanchflower, Cliff Jones, Medwin, then Venables and the hard man Mackay. Arsenal signed George Eastham after a court case and had Kelsey in goal and others that I can not recall at the mo, but two of the best were Johnny Haynes and Jimmy Greaves.

As I said, happy days – would you believe I was a Burnley supporter back then and what a team they had!

Harold Matthews
127 Posted 07/09/2015 at 19:48:33
Sam, after training with Leandro, Aaron Lennon remarked, "What a talent".
Peter Mills
128 Posted 07/09/2015 at 20:01:11
Ray#119, that 7-1 win against Leicester City stands out in my mind. Gerry Humphries at No 11 scored, as did Hurst (No 10), Royle (9) and Ball (8). So when there was a late penalty they let Jimmy Husband (7) take it so the whole forward line bagged a goal during the match.
Paul Kossoff
129 Posted 07/09/2015 at 20:11:37
Ray (#112), re Smith, my dad was at a club in the sixties with his brothers when Smithy mouthed off in a bully's way. My dad, who boxed in the army, told "crater face", as he called him, to have this, then knocked him on his arse.

Hard man of Anfield left soon after that.

Stu Smith
130 Posted 07/09/2015 at 20:27:51
Tony (87), last time I checked, Burscough was in the UK and I can't imagine English kids getting the same excitement as what San Marino kids would. In the UK they can see top players week-in & week out. In San Marino they only get to see the top European forces once maybe twice every year or two.
Paul Jones
131 Posted 07/09/2015 at 21:17:48
Just found this video of a screamer buried by Jagielka in an England training session. Takes it superbly but seems to struggle getting up after it!
Ray Roche
133 Posted 07/09/2015 at 22:31:11
Paul, I can well imagine old crater face being like that. A complete shit.

A pal of mine ran a Gentleman's Evening with Smith as a guest, and someone had provided an Everton shirt, along with other items, to be raffled for charity. Smith threw it on the floor and wiped his feet on it. An odious get of the first order.

I remember someone saying, "If people grow to look like their dog, what kind of a fuckin' dog did Smith have?"

Andy Crooks
134 Posted 08/09/2015 at 00:44:33
Ray Roche, I enjoy your stuff about the older days very much. It seems you were at games I would love to have been at. To me, it was an era bleak in many ways but still having something very special about it. Ray, if you can get the time I think an article would be very welcome.

I have just watched Muck and Brass on Dvd. I would recommend it to anyone who was young in the seventies. Eugene, despite the absence of Madeleine, you will love it, especially the hair styles.

Brian Wilkinson
135 Posted 08/09/2015 at 01:10:16
In Dixie Dean's era, there was not as many England international games or friendlies like today. I wonder how many Dixie would have scored if there was, or the 5 seasons he missed during the Second World War.

With so many friendlies now, it will only be a matter of time before a class striker will break the goal scoring record again.

Brian Wilkinson
136 Posted 08/09/2015 at 01:21:36
Sorry I stand corrected by second world war games missed, old grey brain cells kicking in.

Still baffling though, he only played for England for 5 seasons between 1927 & 1932, making just 16 appearances and scoring 18 goals.

Any of the older generation know why Deans England career ended in 32?

Steve Jenkins
137 Posted 08/09/2015 at 04:29:36
This Welsh side are organised and difficult to beat, have only conceded one goal in the entire tournament.

We don't have the quality in depth, so playing as we do is an absolute must and I've been calling on Wales to do it for as long as I've had hair on my balls.

Playing this way with high tempo, men pressing and hunting in packs is just what we've been calling for Roberto to do.

Throw in a few quality player's e.g. Ramsey and one of the World's best and we've had a formula for success.

Young George Williams of Fulham (currently injured) is a player that I rate highly that I'd like Roberto to have a look at; he's very quick and skillful.

We have some good youngsters coming through that should help with the quality and depth for the qualifying campaigns following this one.

Ashley Williams has been immense, is a great leader and CB, I'm glad the RS never snapped him up.

England - mostly always had players good enough, but rarely (Robson & Venables aside) a good enough manager.

The English FA have made some shocking decisions as far as the managers they have chosen, the latest being the perfect example.

Brian Wilkinson
138 Posted 08/09/2015 at 04:43:42
Old crater face comments made me chuckle,

Who can forget him taking a penalty at Wembley in front of a watching nation on world TV, then having the cheek to blame an Everton fan for reporting him to the dole, and having his claim for disability stopped.

Pete Edwards
139 Posted 08/09/2015 at 12:52:01
Hugh, and the fact Owen was born in Chester, so isn't Welsh anyway; he just played for the school boys teams as he went to school in Hawarden.
John Hughes
140 Posted 08/09/2015 at 13:53:12
Ray (119) mention of Roy Vernon reminds me of Everton playing at Ewood Park against Blackburn Rovers in 1964, it was 1- 1, news filtered thru' the crowd that Team Spirit had won the Grand National and the Everton supporters, thousands of us started chanting "Team Spirit , Team Spirit", Roy Vernon stood just off the goal line and casually back heeled the winning goal. I remember the bus stopped at a pub on the way back before we arrived at Bevington Bush.
Dave Abrahams
141 Posted 08/09/2015 at 14:04:37
Brin (#121), you mentioned some great players in that post, what about John White (the ghost) who played for Spurs at that time?

He would have achieved more for his club and Scotland but sadly he was struck down by lightening on a golf course, a tremendous footballer.

Alan McGuffog
142 Posted 08/09/2015 at 14:20:28
I always thought Gerry Humphreys was a Norris Green / St Teresa's lad. But maybe I confuse him with Gerry Glover, of similar vintage.

I never tire of posting about the goal he scored against Wednesday in the sublime 68-69 season... first time shot from the Goodison Road corner of the Gwladys St penalty area, straight into the opposite corner past Ron Springett.

That season was the best ever in my humble opinion.

Ray Atherton
143 Posted 08/09/2015 at 18:05:30
John (#134),

I was at the Blackburn Rovers game in 1964, but the result was 2-1 to us. Derek Temple and Alex Scott scored. The match was in March. I remember there was a smallpox outbreak in Lancashire, people were warned not to gather in crowds. The love of the Blues won.

I think when Roy Vernon scored, was before that season. If you went back to Bevington Bush John, it must have been with Sunniways coaches. Went on the long journey to Swindon with them for the FA Cup in 1963.

Peter Mills
144 Posted 08/09/2015 at 20:17:13
Alan (#136), quite right, a tremendous goal. Equally right about a sublime season, but I wouldn't take it as the best ever over the sheer joy of 84-85!
Dave Abrahams
145 Posted 08/09/2015 at 21:28:28
Alan. (136) Gerry Humphreys was the step son of Jack Humphreys, a Welsh International, who played for Everton in the late 40s. You may be confusing Humphreys with Aiden Maher who played for Everton at that time, he went to St Theresa's.
John Hughes
146 Posted 08/09/2015 at 22:32:41
Thanks Ray (#137)

I know it was Grand National day, and know we sang "Team Spirit". It must have been to many "Aussie Whites".

Ray Roche
147 Posted 09/09/2015 at 08:15:05
Andy Crooks @128

Thank you for the kind words, Andy; I think, though, that there are posters on here with a greater longevity and a more eloquent turn of phrase that would do more justice to an article on days gone by!

Incidentally, am I right in assuming that the Madeline to which you refer in your comments to Eugene is Madeline Smith? As you may recall from a former thread, Eugene is President of the Dirty Old Man brigade. The thread was "We're Evertonians" and you can catch up with it by putting that in the search option in the top right of the main page. Rather amusing, and why I love ToffeeWeb, an innocent article veers off on a tangent towards the crumpet that middle aged men used to fantasise about...

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