Well, well, well..... It seems that Coco the Clown (aka Fellaini) finally wants out, as he doesn't think we're good enough for him...
I personally think he's got a cheek and considering he's not much good, he'll struggle to find regular first team footie at a team in the top 6 of the Premier League.
I'd like to know that stats on how we've performed without this liability ? let's face it, our best runs in the previous 2 seasons have been when he's been injured.
Twice can't be a coincidence, can it?
He won't be missed as we've already proved (twice) and I reckon getting our money back for this clown would be a result.
Andy Callan, Posted 19/06/2011 at 22:27:42
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1 Posted 20/06/2011 at 05:39:10
2 Posted 20/06/2011 at 05:53:40
3 Posted 20/06/2011 at 07:13:31
4 Posted 20/06/2011 at 07:19:48
Fellaini is a very good player - but as Spurs are finding out with Modric it's very difficult to hang on to your top players if you miss out on the Champions League/ even the Europa League. Personally I think it is only a matter of time before he goes - we should try and do a good deal and use the money to but 2 or 3 players.
I can cope with not being able to match the spending power of Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City and LIverpool. What makes matters worse is how we have spent money in recent years - as if we did have the money to compete e.g. a combined £26M for Yak & Fellaini - when maybe it would have been wiser to have bought 4or 5 good players for the same amount of money.
There was a very good article in the Independent the other day about Udinese. They have qualified for the Champions League - yet they are based in a city of 100,000 population, their TV revenue/wage big are a fraction of the of the big guns in Serie A. They compete because they have a network of 50 scouts world wide - they sign talented young players and if the big guns are after them after 2 or 3 good seasons - then they make a tidy profit e.g. All the top clubs in Europe are after their 21 year old star Sanchis with £20M quoted as the "starting bid" - they signed him when he was 17 for approx £2M from a Chilean club.
Everton must seriously look at adopting a similar policy - there's no way we can compete in the transfer market for the expensive star players - so we should stop trying to do so.
5 Posted 20/06/2011 at 07:30:03
He is the only player in this squad who has the abiltiy to make the step up to the Champions League and he rightly want's to play there.
It looks like Evertonians are as scared of ambition as our manager.
Earlier this summer he said he's happy to stay, why have the club sat on thier hands all summer?
Much like the Pienaar situation, we cannot afford to let this drag on past this summer, so they need to either get a new deal signed sharpish or sell him. I can imagine pretty soon his agent/dad will be saying sit on it until next summer, which may now have happened judging by these comments TBH.
6 Posted 20/06/2011 at 07:42:47
I agree 100%. Developing promising players is something our club is good at, it's the only way were going to generate the funds to rebuild and grow again.
7 Posted 20/06/2011 at 07:34:43
We can not let him go. keep no matter what
Can you imagine Man U, Man City and Chelsea with him in the side, I can thats why we need to keep him. He is the most important player in our team for the up and coming season and beyond.
As for wes brown is he as good as Yobo on a bad day, Don't think so. Do we need to have another defender. I know Moyes has said that walter smith is his mentor, but don't increase the amount of defenders we have on the pitch, last season at times we had 7 defenders on the pitch.
as for Fellaini's comments he is saying evertons not at the right level so lets get to that level this season. what we expected at the begining of last season looks promising this season. all we need is to have a good start to the season and Fellaini's dream will be true (and ours)
8 Posted 20/06/2011 at 07:49:51
9 Posted 20/06/2011 at 08:17:00
10 Posted 20/06/2011 at 08:39:05
If you want loyalty, buy a dog.
11 Posted 20/06/2011 at 08:35:58
For those people talking about his arrogance, let me tell you this little story. My mate has a season ticket in the Brian Labone suite. After every game thy bring a player round all the lounges (normally the man of the match). However, after the Chelsea game it was Felli. He was brought in by the host to meet and greet and answer some questions. When he was asked the first question, he was looking down texting on his phone, the host then nudged him to answer and he held his hand up as if to say "wait". Obviously this didn't go down too well so a couple of people starting shouting towards him to get a move on so with that he turned round and walked out not to return. Arrogant indeed but unfortunately a large number of footballers are!!
12 Posted 20/06/2011 at 09:00:05
Fellaini is a class act and to talk about loyalty when the measure of the clubs ambition is to be linked with Bothroyd, Wes Fucking Brown or Craig Mackail-Smith, can you really blame him for wanting to move.
We're a fucking laughing stock.
13 Posted 20/06/2011 at 09:01:47
If we did groom him from the youth and he was a fan when younger then I would feel gutted if he said he wanted to leave. That?s why I can imagine the feelings some people have on the sale of Rooney. But someone we paid a big fee for to prize him away from his old club? Someone we gave a big wage and promised a higher level of football? Of course he wants to go even higher if possible.
Looking at the fees that are paid nowadays we should fetch £30 millions for him. In that case, I would be gutted we lost a great player but it would mean we got the money to refresh the team. Even though we all know that half of that fee would go directly to repaying loans probably?
14 Posted 20/06/2011 at 09:12:06
But I hope like he'll we keep the big fella!
15 Posted 20/06/2011 at 09:11:52
Its been said many times above but hes hardly a lifelong blue and as an ambitious player I have no problems with him wanting CL football.
Some people need to step back and think before turning their vitriol on "coco the clown" and the likes.
16 Posted 20/06/2011 at 08:53:46
What people need to understand is that players will use clubs as a stepping stone to further their own careers. A player will start at a certain level/club and if he is successfull, will move to the "next level" and so on untill he is playing in the Champions league. Everton get players from lower league clubs. Don't you think there fans are upset when their better players leave? and lower league clubs do it to clubs lower in the league than they are.
I myself have changed job countless times to get better working hours, conditions and pay. I certainly don't begrudge any player from doing the same (even though they do earn a tidy sum at Everton).
The quicker people realise that some players will just use a club to further their own careers (particularly bought in players), the easier it is to accept when they finally do move on.
One thing i will add though. It's more money driven than a desire to play champions league football. Fellaini could easily have played champions league football in Belgium. Everton will pay him more in wages than any Belgian club playing CL football.
17 Posted 20/06/2011 at 09:51:33
He's not said that he wants to go. Just that he would like to play champions league. We would all like to support a club in the champions league but it doesn't mean (hopefully) that we are going to start supporting another team.
Personally i think Fellaini is probably the most talented player on our books. If he signs a new deal i'll be well chuffed.
18 Posted 20/06/2011 at 09:59:21
I?m not saying he didn?t say it. Just that it needs to be treated with caution.
Secondly, if he did say it so what? What he may have said is true, and how do we know that he doesn?t want to stay anyway? Sign a two year extension with a clause that if we don?t qualify for the Champions League within the next two years he can go if we receive a bid for £25/£30million?
Thirdly, people saying that he isn?t a good player, I love this site and the debate and banter on here, but, what planet are these people on? Fellaini is class. Absolute fucking class.
19 Posted 20/06/2011 at 08:50:50
Of course, there maybe one or two players knocking about in the PL that have a genuine affinity for the clubs they play for, but 99.9% don't and are in it simply to make as much money as they can.
If that means moving, they move, if it means staying, they stay.
Rooney was a 'blue' from a blue family from Liverpool.
If he could go, ANYONE could go and once he decided he was off, we should ALL have grown up regarding, loyalty, transfers etc.
Everton means exactly nothing to Fellaini, other than money and/or the opportunity to make more (same with Pienaar and Lescott) but I don't think that makes him/them unique or (for me) any different from Arteta.
The fact Arteta is still with us just means he got what he wanted from Everton (nb: which was lucky as NOBODY put in a bid for him, despite all the hints from his agent and the press).
Seriously, anyone think he was being offered 90 grand a week at Arsenal and said "No, I will stay at Everton on 70 grand a week"?
As for the CL talk from players who want away - total bollocks!
Yes I'm sure they'd like CL.....AS WELL AS THE MONEY.
But ask yourself (yes hypothetical but..) - if a player could get 50 grand a week and CL football, or no CL football BUT..100 grand a week, what do you reckon he'd go for?
The fact that the clubs paying 100 grand a week can usually offer CL just helps players 'justify' their moves but we shouldn't be fooled by it.
Whenever I see posts saying "this feller really has a feel for the club" or "yeah I think he really loves Everton", I think Jesus, PT Barnum was spot on.
I understand it's NOT a nice thought to think "Hey, I pay loads of money to follow a group of players who are basically mercenaries, who will play for the highest bidder and don't give two fucks about Everton FC" but that, imo, is the reality.
20 Posted 20/06/2011 at 10:08:15
21 Posted 20/06/2011 at 10:22:41
22 Posted 20/06/2011 at 10:23:22
Get £10-£15m for him. Also sell the Yak etc and raise around £40m.
Spend £10m on debt.
£10m on a few cheapo players.
Spend £20m on developing our youth setup, we've been trying to keep up with The Jones' and blown whatever money we had.
Now it's time to for Moyes and Kenwright to think outside the box and try to build the best youth setup in the country/Europe/World. This is our only chance to get back to the top.
23 Posted 20/06/2011 at 10:37:39
To be fair they already are.
24 Posted 20/06/2011 at 10:40:41
25 Posted 20/06/2011 at 11:14:50
If we did sell him for some reason I can't see us recouping the money we paid for him..
26 Posted 20/06/2011 at 11:11:50
He has at times looked real quality and been unlucky to get injured when playing well but he has not done enough consistently to be considered a big success and he certainly was not as Moyes once said the best central midfielder in the country.
Parker and Barton and others could easily replace and better what Felliani gives and there would still be change.
Him and Heitinga make me laugh they think they should be playing Champions League football yet face a battle to get in the Everton team.
27 Posted 20/06/2011 at 11:42:45
If you were a young talented internation player, with no emotional links to the club- you are simply an employee - would you want to hang around at a cash strapped club with a delapidated staduim, with no hint of real investment - selling its best players to rival Premiership clubs - having to play with a negative mind week in week out - then looking at the likes of Bothroyd and Wes Brown coming in!?!? - I would be off!!!
I would be gutted if he did go, but I would not blame him to a certain extent - would you stay in a dead end job with no prospects when you know you have the potential to do so much more?
I know I would leave my job for a better one.
28 Posted 20/06/2011 at 11:47:06
A rough translation of the final paragraph would be:
For the moment, in any case, Fellaini is concentrating on Everton. And there's no question of thinking of a transfer. "No. It's not the right time. But one thing's for sure: I want to play in a team that wins trophies and plays in the Champions' League. Everton is only a subtop team."
I'm not familiar with the term 'subtop', but hunting around various Belgian football sites where it's used quite regularly, I would say it's not as pejorative (or, if you prefer, it doesn't say 'Everton are shite') as you might think. It seems to mean 'just below the top'.
Now, maybe when he says he doesn't want a transfer he's saying that he does. But maybe he really doesn't.
Personally, I trust the press about as far as I could throw Liscard.
29 Posted 20/06/2011 at 12:10:56
30 Posted 20/06/2011 at 11:49:56
I don't remember Felli ever having to battle for a start, I'd say he's Moyes first name down when fit, Heitinga was unlucky not to be player of the year last season from CB, also starting regularly.
I'd say a manager wary of character and ambition may be Heitinga's biggest problem in getting in our side, it's certainly not ability.
31 Posted 20/06/2011 at 12:22:48
The man himself hasn't mouthed off as far as i am concerned, his father well....
Turning against our most talented player even before he has handed in a transfer request? Why?
32 Posted 20/06/2011 at 12:32:06
Until he can show this consistency, it would probably be best to keep his and his dad's mouth shut.
33 Posted 20/06/2011 at 12:45:51
1. Fellaini said he wanted to fight for silverware and Everton weren't in a poition to do so.
2. Because Everton are not in a position to fight for top honours, Everton are Sub-top. This is very true.
3. Fellaini never mentioned wanting to leave and said he might have to go if he wanted to win anything.
Now, if you're going to berate a guy for being honest in stating he wanted to win something and that he couldn't see Everton being able to provide that, then go ahead. The only person you are kidding is yourself.
Everton should be able to compete more fully and last season was the season. It didn't happen. Because it didn't happen the club runs the risk of losing it's better/best players to teams who can or are more likely to win something. It's only natural.
Don't beat the guy up for challenging the mananger and chairman as all he is guilty of is saying "challenge for something or I'm off!"
34 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:13:36
Interesting post, I agree. We can surely work smarter on the smaller budget, indeed we must do just that.
I also picked up this week that Chelsea have offered to triple the Arsenal chief scouts salary, which shows how crucial these guys are, and in this case how important he has probably been to developing Arsenals pass and move style.
There's scope surely for a big investment and to become THE leading club in home grown and nurtured talent
35 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:19:19
Journalist focuses on sensationalist angle.
Fans over react and slag him off in a variety of ways.
36 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:02:37
Are opinions on Heitinga are poles apart he had a decent first season for a player coming into the Prem for the first time and nothing more imo, and last season wasn't seen by Moyes as good enough apart from a couple of occassions to displace either Jageilka who was very average by his own standards or Distan and felt the need to criticise both Moyes and the club rather than knuckle down and prove his worth.
I dont want to us to sell Felliani but if he doesn't sign a extension keeping hold for one more season will only see him leave for a figure much below his value in the same way that Piennar did with no funds for replacements which is of no good to Everton F.C.
I dont dislike Felliani whatever he may or may not have said but i want whats best for Everton and i dont see Felliani as any higher in stature or ability than Baines,Jageilka,Arteta,Howard,Cahillor Neville and if he doesn't want to sign cash in now is the right thing to do imo.
37 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:52:10
38 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:59:36
He has said he wants to play in the Champs League. Is that a bad thing?
He says Everton are just below the top clubs in England. That would be right.
The Echo reports his comments including: The fans' favourite added that he will not necessarily leave the Toffees this summer, suggesting he will wait to see whether Moyes can lead his side back into Europe before deciding on his future.
The truth hurts, but there are five or six clubs with huge amounts of cash to buy the top players, and they are the only teams realistically expecting trophies/CL football. If Felli gives us another couple of yrs, we'll be lucky, and should not bitch until that is decided one way or the other.
Whenever he goes, unless injured, he'll bring us in £25 million.
39 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:43:14
40 Posted 20/06/2011 at 14:07:52
What I don't like is us spending... a combined £26M for Yak & Fellaini - when maybe it would have been wiser to have bought 4or 5 good players for the same amount of money.
Everton have mixed it up, why haven't you noticed?
Pienaar £2 m, Cahill £2 m, Arteta £2m, Jagielka £4m, Howard £3m, Baines £5m.
All very good bargains. But you cannot always get a bargain, if it were that easy, their prices would immediately rise.
If you never spend big money, the likleiehood is, you'll be ordinary. A Stoke, Blackburn, West Brom, Liverpool under Benitez.
The best way is surely to mix it up. The odd £10-15 m player every other season, keen scouting for the odd bargain, and as a "sub top" team, get first choice on the better Championship players that Chelsea and United wouldn't look at, and a youngster every other season. And gradually accumulate a team.
41 Posted 20/06/2011 at 13:49:26
His partnership with Rodwell was IMO amongst the best in the premiership at one point.
I would prefer to see us build on this by making that the preferred central MF and buying a decent left winger .
However we can only dream while Black Bill is in charge because he's taking us down rapidly.
If we do not sign anyone this summer and we have to retain dissatisfied players such as Yobo and the Yak the whole club will become disenchanted with life at GP and the rot will set in on the playing field as well as the boardroom that has been rotten for years.
KENWRIGHT OUT ASAP.
42 Posted 20/06/2011 at 14:24:18
I've got plenty of time on my hands today and reading this thread you certainly had me going there for a moment; suggesting Fellaini could "slot straight into that Barca team no problem" is a good one. In my opinion the only way he's going to get into the Nou Camp is like me; he'd need to buy a ticket for a tour or their next home game!
Subjectively, I think Marouane is a decent mid-field player, for me, when he's fit and on form, he's a ball winner. I don't think he's proved he?s been worth the £15m investment yet; equally I'm not totally certain he's even proved he's worth his salary but I would genuinely like to see him prove that he is; that's my gut feeling about the lad.
However, objectively it's a different story; of the 38 games in the league last season we won 13 or 34%, Marouane made 20 appearances, of which we won five or 25% of the games he played in. Of the games he didn't play in we won an astonishing 44%.
Now as curious as that is I know that's probably just some random statistical anomaly, or is it? It may well turn out that we win more games when Moyes wears a tracksuit rather a suit or when Bill takes Jenny along, I don't know what, if anything, it proves if I'm honest; but I do know it was even worse the season before. That season we won16 games in the league, or 42% of our games. In the games Marouane played we won only 30% yet of those he didn't we won 60%. The season before that, his first and one in which he scored a fantastic 8 goals, we had a success rate of 45% overall, having won 17 of the 38 games. Marouane appeared in only 30, having picked up 13 yellows, and we won 13 or 43% of those games he played in. We won 50% of the games he didn't play in.
Putting all that together one may assume that we appear to perform better when Fellaini isn't playing. Whilst one should never assume, one thing is apparent; our win rate is falling and we need to do something about it; in the period discussed here we've gone from 45% to 42% to 34%. I know it's been pointed out before but It's not that we're losing more games, we're actually losing substantially less, the problem is we now draw 40% of our games when it was 24%.
It doesn't take a genius to work out where DM needs to concentrate his derisory resources and I would suggest it isn't in a player who, on paper, we appear to do better without
Marrying my subjective opinion to the objective, my own conclusion is that if the right offer comes in for Fellaini I think we should bite their hand off. Others may disagree, and of course that it their prerogative, but we have no money, no prospect of any investment money or soft loans, and there are too many missing elements in the team that need addressing, non more so than the dilemma up front. Being completely ruthless for a moment Fellaini's absence wouldn't appear to be too damaging to the future of Everton whilst the money from his sale could be very beneficial.
I have no problems with the silly games players and their agents, particularly the agents, play; planting stories that this team of that team are interested in them when they're not, surely nobody in their right mind really believes Utd, Chelsea or Real Madrid find Fellaini that attractive a prospect do they or have I missed those clubs actually expressing an interest?
Maybe he has the ability to play CL but he certainly hasn't delivered the performances on a regular basis to prove that to date. His ambition is admirable, I can understand any player wanting CL football and the money it brings, but I think he?s been a bit of a twat talking Everton down instead of up. He should think before implying that Everton may not be best placed to achieve his ambitions, after all you should never bite the hand that feeds you. Perhaps we're just a sub top team because we have too many sub top players at the moment and that's the real issue that Everton needs to address, not whether we pay another ten or twenty grand a week to a player that doesn't appear to be making a positive contribution to the club.
I agree with those saying all players are mercenaries and why shouldn't they be? We shouldn't be any different; personally I'd sell any player if it meant progress for Everton; the only player I wouldn't want to see leave is Baines but, let?s be honest, everyone has their price!
43 Posted 20/06/2011 at 14:41:46
44 Posted 20/06/2011 at 15:05:15
Good luck to the bloke.
He may well not be good enough for any of the big clubs to come calling anyway, and personally I don't rate him that highly anyway. I reckon we're about his limit talent-wise but that doesn't mean he can't have ambition.
This is football, which is business and players want to be the best they can with the biggest clubs they can - whats wrong with that? Take off your blue tinted specs for a second and look at the bigger picture. The guys from Belgium for heavens sake, where do you think his team loyalties lie? If I was offered more money than the company I currently work for, under better conditions with more talented people and the chance to progress my career, I'd be off as well.
It's crazy to lay claim to him being a mercenary, and to say that he's out of order to say this is, in my opinion, short sighted at best.
45 Posted 20/06/2011 at 15:19:45
James... the boss wants to see you in her office...
46 Posted 20/06/2011 at 16:02:32
47 Posted 20/06/2011 at 16:21:25
48 Posted 20/06/2011 at 16:24:36
49 Posted 20/06/2011 at 16:37:00
Worst scenario would be to let him run down the contract and not recover the huge transfer fee we paid for him.
He's a great player but if he doesn't want to play for us, he can play somewhere else.
50 Posted 20/06/2011 at 16:48:01
I will always support Everton no matter what happens but im struggling to see now where the ambition is or is going to come from with us now.
51 Posted 20/06/2011 at 17:07:07
52 Posted 20/06/2011 at 17:27:26
David, sorry but aren?t you being a bit hysterical there? This isn?t about an individual player this is about what?s best for the club. The fact is, and it is fact, the TEAM APPEARS to perform better without Fellaini and on that basis if he were to leave it may not be such a big loss and one that could be cushioned by the size of the fee and what David Moyes could do with it.
With regard to the statistics, why it appears this way is a mystery to the casual observer; it may be nothing more than a coincidence that the team performed better, but none the less it is a fact.
It could be that Fellaini?s style of play, the way he attempts to win the ball is disruptive to the teams style and ability to get the ball forward, I honestly have no idea.
Maybe to the trained eye it could be that his technique in winning the ball lends itself to injury and the possibility of the referee interpreting such challenges as fouls, the conceding of which disrupts our play, gives the ball to the opposition; injuries and fouls which lead to his periodic absence from the pitch, which is of course what has happened regularly since he?s been here.
When Marouane first arrived for £15m I have to admit I was unimpressed in that season to be honest, but he did score quite a few welcome goals [9?] so that was fair enough. For me, in his second season, he began to settle down and did show great promise that was delivered at games such as the Man City match at Goodison. This excellent run of form, when he definitely was, without doubt, our best player, was cut short at the Anfield derby. This season, I may be wrong, I haven?t seen anything like his previous form, he?s been okay at best and stunk the place out on more than one occasion, which isn?t what you expect from a £15m player.
We all know we?re selling players, we have to, have to that is if anyone actually wants them, and maybe Fellaini?s potential value in the market place could be greater than his contribution to the team on the pitch. The downside of course is prospective buyers may have noticed this also, as they tend not to listen to pundits, internet ?experts? like we all like to think we are but clearly we?re not, and agents spouting unadulterated shite about their clients, be it their son or not.
I may have an advantage over you, I don?t know if this is the case, but like many Evertonians, I?ve seen some great players in an Everton shirt and Marouane doesn?t come close. I have no doubt that with his flamboyant appearance and full blooded style he may well be a crowd favourite, like Duncan was, but it?s his performances on the pitch that matter and in relation to those any bid over £15m shouldn?t be sneezed at.
Suggesting that ?Fellaini was consistently our best performer? is perhaps a little optimistic. For me our best performers last season were Baines, Distin and, dare I suggest, Steven Pienaar who, again in my opinion, conducted himself well during his exit. He wanted more money, which is fair enough, we couldn?t, possibly wouldn?t, increase our offer, which I know, from the horses mouth as it were, was a fair offer, so he left, but not before giving 100% during the first half of the season. I don?t recall him making any potentially snide remarks about the club that paid and served him well or his agent continually suggesting his future lay elsewhere as his talent was too big for Everton.
Maybe the best advice for Marouane is to stop telling the world about his own personal ambition, tell his father to shut the fuck up and take a leaf out of Baines? book and let his football do the talking because many Evertonians can?t hear it at the moment
Of course all of this may just be the precursor to a drawn out summer long negotiation, like that of Arteta, which takes people's eyes off the ball and what really is or probably, in our case, isn't happening.
53 Posted 20/06/2011 at 18:03:10
So not being able to get ahead of Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta mean he's only decent?
He wouldt be able to get into barca's team, we have one player who might have a chance of getting in their team, tat is Baines.
Fellaini could get into Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Milan, Inter, Bayern etc.
People really over over-reacting.
My god, Fellaini say's everton are not the best most successful eam in the world, erm hello we are EVERTON and by putting that in capital letters I am inferring that we are really really big, the sort of big that is not defined by trophys, success, quality of football, ambition, or good players, but the sort defined by the caps lock key, Fellaini obviously doesn't understand that. GET RID!
54 Posted 20/06/2011 at 18:32:17
You say he was one of are better performers early last season and your probably right but was that so difficult in a team flirting with the bottom of the table?
As for pundits fuck me apart from one or two they talk the biggest load of nonesense your ever likely to hear imo.
Defensive midfielders like Felliani all teams need and they do a good job but the reality is these kind of players hardly ever influence games and dont produce pieces of magic that win games either and there never head and shoulders above other midfielders.
55 Posted 20/06/2011 at 18:56:00
Now compare that with Arteta who had 3 or 4 not months but great seasons thats what players have to do before i will consider them top quality.
56 Posted 20/06/2011 at 19:11:39
Also not good enough for Everton. A lumbering undisciplined headless chicken . Get shut for as much as we can. Another bad expensive buy by Dreary.
57 Posted 20/06/2011 at 19:08:21
"What's wrong with showing ambition?"
"Good luck to the bloke."
"He hasn't said anything that isn't true".
"He's Belgian; why should he show loyalty?".................................
I'll repeat what I said earlier: He was up and down like a yo-yo in his first season. He has had a couple of severe injuries and was paid handsomly all the while. I don't blame him for having ambition, but where is his respect for the club that gave him a platform to develop? He owes Everton.
Please tell me how it is reasonable for a player to sign for a club for £15 million, with associated player fees and a good salary and to then speak openly about leaving before his contract is up?
I'll bet you are the same people that moan about Yak being lazy, or Rooney stabbing us in the back. Who made you the arbiters of justice?
Rooney was world class. I was pleased for the lad. He had to go. He was just too good to stay at Everton back then. A local lad as well. An Everton fan. He made us a fortune! Fellaini is a beast but he is no midfield dynamo. Far from it. The lad has been injured almost as much as he has played, and he was pretty poor in his first season. He needs to earn his wages for a season or two before he starts spouting off. But I guess that argument doesn't attack the board so there's no point to it hey fellas?
58 Posted 20/06/2011 at 19:35:08
You can repeat what you said a million times. Plenty dont agree and have said so.
Unlike you most aren't happy to see our best players leave and don't go over the top because of sensational headlines in a rag!
If he goes it will be for more than what we paid, which was £11m, a bargain considering what the shite across the park are paying for young midfield talent.
59 Posted 20/06/2011 at 19:51:17
if you're gonna criticise what I have posted please actually READ what I have said.
I want him to stay, categorically.
Is it really going over the top though, Stephen, to ask for a little loyalty, at least in the media spotlight (he can think what he wants but saying it publicly is disrespectful).
The headlines I have not read, so please enlighten me? The quote from Fellaini does invlove the following, however: "But Everton is a team below the top level." If you call yourself a fan, why does that not annoy you? It saddens me when fans are so caught up in board room politics that they forget the foundations of being a fan.
PS. Why are you bringing Liverpool into it? No wonder they call us Bitter Blues.
60 Posted 20/06/2011 at 20:00:08
One of our best players has a job done on him by the red tops, and nearly everyone on here starts going on how he isn?t that good a player! If that?s your honest opinion, and you?re not just saying that as a way of lashing out to try and convince yourselves that it is not all bad if he leaves, then fair enough, but since he?s settled after a tough first season, I haven?t seen so many people on here at once criticising him on mass.
Also, he has not, and I repeat HAS NOT, said he wants to leave.
Read the full paragraph, not the cut out version found in the British nationals, where he answers a question about leaving by saying ?No, it?s not the right time?. In other words, he wants to stay but in time wants to play Champions League football and win trophies. What player doesn?t?
For fuck's sake, get off the lad's back.
The London hacks must be pissing themselves if they?re reading this thread.
61 Posted 20/06/2011 at 20:06:52
62 Posted 20/06/2011 at 20:19:12
63 Posted 20/06/2011 at 20:44:31
he could have said...
"I hope to achieve my objecive of wiinning trophies and playing champoins league football at Everton".
"They have a strong tradition here, and I would love to see investment in the club. Sadly, we are fighting against teams that have much more financial weight behind them, and it is tough."
There you go. Not a word of a lie in there! So, you have your truth, and the board will hear what he is saying.
Why say it in a covert way like that I hear you say? Well, because it means he does not verbally denigrate the club, and it holds optimism for idiot fans like me to cling to.
Most importantly, and I know club brands are all the rage, if a Belgian kid hears him say what I have just suggested the kid might be an Everton fan one day, and fans keep the club alive. Negative comments like Fellaini's tell the world that we are and always will be sub-top. So the kids choose Chelsea instead, or some other rich club. And the cycle continues...Thankyou Maro; we are not worthy!
64 Posted 20/06/2011 at 20:54:41
All those saying Arteta and Cahill are loyal, this is true to an extent, but not one club has actually made an approach for either of them, and Arteta takes 75k a week off us for.........
I just hope this "Mo the Fro" situation doesn't drag on all summer, like things usually do at Everton (in the Kenwright years), and we make 3 last 10 minute bids on transfer dealine day, and waste most on it on shite like Billy.
65 Posted 20/06/2011 at 20:49:47
I read what you posted which basically said that he was unreasonable to have made those comments. You also highlighted several comments made by people who thought he was well within his rights to say what he said. You also said those defending him made you sick?
At no point does he say he wants to leave, at no point does he criticise the blues and at no point does he say anything that's not true including the sub top comment, that's why I criticised your post.
I suppose the reason a player publicly stating his ambition doesnt annoy me is because I like players who want to achieve, there isn't much of that attitude about the club at the moment.
I mentioned the redshites player as an indicator of what you get for your money to those criticising him!
66 Posted 20/06/2011 at 21:06:16
do you work for the tabloids mate? Talk about misrepresentation.
The all to frequent moral condescension made me sick, becasuse I usually think it is snide to try to win an argument by making out that your opponent is morally dubious or, in your case (#62) lacking ambition.
I'll admit #54 sounds like I have fallen foul of the same diabolical tactics that I have criticised! But, in fairness, my original post was pretty objective and civilised. What can I say? The pseudologic of some contributors drags me down to their level. I guess that's what the snide gets want, because they lack the intellignece to argue the subject.
Play the ball not the man hey kids.
67 Posted 20/06/2011 at 21:19:08
At the end of the day though, you can't blame the lad for showing ambition,
and I bet for a lot of footballers it isen't all about the money, but about winning things.
68 Posted 20/06/2011 at 21:33:31
69 Posted 20/06/2011 at 21:38:08
Err, because it happens to be true? It annoys me much more when Neville, Howard, Cahill or some other club mouthpiece come out and try to placate supporters by spouting patronising shite about how we've got a great squad, how hardworking the manager is, how Kenwright is Everton through and through and most definitely not an incompetent cock, how we'll be adding some quality additions to the squad throughout the summer, how next year could be 'our year', how they want to see out their careers here on fucking easy street.
70 Posted 20/06/2011 at 22:17:44
71 Posted 20/06/2011 at 22:26:26
Barcelona are probably the best team of all time (a different debate so don't worry if you don't agree) but that doesn't mean every single individual is outstanding. For the record I'd rather have Baines than either of their left backs as well.
72 Posted 20/06/2011 at 23:46:02
During the second half of the season he was not really missed so if he wants to run off to a Champions League team then good luck to him i really feel he is over rated and is quite average i often wonder whether he is worth 15 mill we paid for him when you think Arsenal paid the same money for samir Nasri, i know which one i would take for that money and it isnt our man thats for sure.
73 Posted 21/06/2011 at 00:04:40
as for Fellaini, hes okay, too indisciplined and fails to track back enough for my taste so I don't think he has the necessary attributes to be a world beater in the defensive midfield position
if we got a good offer I'd personally sell him because I honestly don't think we'd miss him as much as many people on this site think
aslong as we don't replace him with garbage like Parker (overrated by the biased Hammer loving media) then alls good
74 Posted 21/06/2011 at 01:21:22
We need to put it in the net. That's what missing for the jump to Top 4. If we're as poor as many here claim, we should be losing more games. 14 draws, the games we lost by one goal? Where would we be if we had a true Predator? This is the frustration.
Who gives a shit that Fella or others make "Champion's League" noises. Why wouldn't they?
We have a team of talent that can't finish. This is our problem.
75 Posted 21/06/2011 at 01:30:05
76 Posted 21/06/2011 at 01:46:27
Moyes has brought in a new crop of talent. Injuries abated (God willing. Don't know who else to ask at this point) we'll see what's what next season.
Moyes has stacked talent to defend and go forward. Why is that big rectanguar thingy, with the big netty thingy covering it, fronted by some fellow in a different-colored shirty thingy remain a problem?
Here's where we're missing.
77 Posted 21/06/2011 at 05:37:57
78 Posted 21/06/2011 at 07:11:50
Roberto#40 It's okay spending money - but only if you have got it. As I pointed out ;Udinese finished in a Champions League spot mainly based on the foundation of a good scouting system - by which they sign some very talented youth players from all over the world. Ajax have a world renowned youth academy - these are the clubs we should be trying to emulate - not the big spending ones - Leeds United tried to spend their way to the top and look what happened to them.
79 Posted 21/06/2011 at 08:00:08
80 Posted 21/06/2011 at 08:35:29
I wouldn't want him playing for us even if it was on a free. Give me Marouane any day. May be Busquets is a better player but I dislike him and he wouldn't fit in English football.
81 Posted 21/06/2011 at 09:30:29
82 Posted 21/06/2011 at 10:54:04
Ive just read we dont want another season were 3 are signed in 10 minutes before the deadline? What do you think Felliani was, i dont buy the line they were watching him for years, more like they saw him in the 2 games he played for Liege against the RS and i thought it was 15m, which imo was a hell of a lot for a name virtually unheard of.
I believe that all these defensive midfielders, water carriers are all well overrated. Since Deschamps and Makele they have somehow become superstars for having basic footballing skills.
I dont argue they are not needed and they play a vital role in anyteam but imo the skills they have and bring are not more than any disciplined midfielder playing in the Premier League should have.
83 Posted 21/06/2011 at 12:17:02
84 Posted 21/06/2011 at 13:03:56
85 Posted 21/06/2011 at 14:09:58
?The quote from Fellaini does invlove the following [?] ?But Everton is a team below the top level?.?
This might come across as pissy, but I don?t think he says that. He says ? ?Everton is only a subtop team?. It might be easier to translate ?subtop? as ?below the top level?, but in 7sur7 you also have articles in which Liege aspire to be a subtop team and the Belgian national coach commits to making Belgium a subtop national team. Doesn?t sound like ?below the top level? to me. Like I said @#28, I?m not convinced he?s being pejorative about Everton FC at all.
I think it?s better to criticise him for what he says rather than for what he doesn?t.
Any Belgians out there?
86 Posted 21/06/2011 at 14:10:23
"I'll repeat what I said earlier: He was up and down like a yo-yo in his first season. He has had a couple of severe injuries and was paid handsomly all the while. I don't blame him for having ambition, but where is his respect for the club that gave him a platform to develop? He owes Everton. "
He hasn't said he wants to leave now, just that he has ambitions to win things and if thats away from Everton, then so be it. I dont believe he 'owes' Everton anything - this is business after all.
As for Rooney and Yak - I don't hold those beliefs either. Rooney was good business, and Yak knows where the goal is - he was never bought for his work rate! I'm not one for holding grudges, or indeed for clinging to non-existent player loyalty ;-)
87 Posted 22/06/2011 at 09:59:40
Kind of simple, really.
88 Posted 22/06/2011 at 11:43:21
If you're not going to be sensible then don't bother...
As I said, an outstanding team doesn't necessarily have 11 (or 14) outstanding individuals. Busquets is lucky to be there, and is probably not the best defensive midfielder at Barcelona. He's a good, but not great player, he was brought up in the system that they play, and understands it perfectly. Therefore he fits in between Xavi and Iniesta very comfortably. Frankly, I reckon I could fit in between Xavi and Iniesta pretty comfortably.
Put it this way, imagine Fellaini playing for Barcelona alongside their players, now imagine Busquets playing for Everton without those lot to make him look good. I wouldn't want Busquets here, he's a product of time and place and apparently some people overrate him hugely due to his fortunate circumstance.
89 Posted 22/06/2011 at 13:11:47
but each to their own opinions
90 Posted 22/06/2011 at 13:20:42
Xavi and Iniesta need protection as much as any ball playing midfielders, Busquets does it superbly (Man of the match in the Champions League Final with a staggering pass completion rate)
as for Fellaini I don't even think hes a defensive midfielder, he hasn't got the discipline nor the positional sense for the role. Hes a box to box midfielder in my eyes, same as Rodwell
91 Posted 22/06/2011 at 14:15:16
92 Posted 22/06/2011 at 14:09:54
Busquets man of the match? Lionel Messi got that title officialy, check the Uefa-website. What are you talking about?
I agree with you that Fellaini is a box-to-box player and not a defensive midfielder. I do, however, understand the point Mike is trying to make. The position Busquets plays in and the rest of the Barcelona-team asks for a no-nonsense midfielder who is good at winning duels and who gives the ball to his team mates as quickly as possible. It's as such not a difficult position to play, you don't have to be a world star to play there.
That all being said, Busquets is obviously a great footballer. But he remains a cheating bastard and not suited to play in the Premier League.
93 Posted 22/06/2011 at 14:01:21
I mean, its not as if Barca don't have the money to replace him if he's not that good.
94 Posted 22/06/2011 at 14:17:21
95 Posted 22/06/2011 at 14:16:51
As long as he signs his contract pretty soon as many have said, we don't want to get our hands burned again
96 Posted 22/06/2011 at 17:16:15
Why did they spend £20M for someone in Busquets' position if he was the world's best? Seems a bit odd.
His pass completion rate is staggering because he plays three yard passes to the world's best midfielders, and its entirely a result of the team ethic and the way the coach sets up the team. He is a good player, with good technique and the ability to pass the ball well, but he is far from outstanding, and nowhere near the world's best in his position.
As for Guardiola's comment, sounds like a coach 'bigging' up an insecure player to me. He wouldn't need to say it if it was actually true would he? Do you really think he rates Busquets above Xavi and Iniesta and sees him as more valuable than David Villa and Gerard Pique? If he does, I'd take my rating of a player over his any day.
97 Posted 22/06/2011 at 18:21:18
98 Posted 23/06/2011 at 13:09:36
My point is that all of these players would thrive and prosper alongside Xavi and Iniesta, just as Busquets has. I'm not sure I could nail down a single best defensive midfielder, as football is a team game and that is very much a supporting position dependent on who else is in the team. I will absolutely stand by my assertion that Busquets is a good, but not great player, and could easily be replaced by lots of people in that Barcelona team, including Marouane Fellaini.
99 Posted 23/06/2011 at 13:31:56
If all them players were at the same age the only ones i would take Felliani ahead of are Diarra and Zannetti.
100 Posted 23/06/2011 at 16:06:29
101 Posted 23/06/2011 at 17:57:34
As for your other suggestions,
Diarra is okay, hes a well rounded player but not in Busquets league imo.
Xabi Alonso is more of a playmaker than a defensive midfielder.
Khedira is quality I agree but again hes not quite as refined as Busquets is imo.
Essien is showing signs of being past his best and again hes more of a box to box type midfielder than a defensive midfielder (Mikel/Makelele were always the defensive midfielders at Chelsea)
Senna WAS quality but is now past his best and Busquets is ahead of him in the Spanish set up (again you seem to know more than the Spanish world cup winning coach)
I like Cambiasso but he plays within himself too much for my liking plus hes injury prone
Zanetti is a legend but imo is a better full back than a defensive midfielder
van Bommel is useful but again not in Busquets league IMO
and Fellaini!!!! as much as I love our players I try to be objective, your over-rating of Fellaini does you no favours.
Busquets is a dislikable player due to his unsportsmanship and antics on the pitch but your failure to recognise the qualities he brings to the Barcelona team astound me
102 Posted 23/06/2011 at 19:11:40
You're still failing to divorce Busquets the individual from the team that he plays in. I've watched a lot of Barcelona over the last three years or so, this isn't a knee jerk reaction. He has what is essentially the easiest job in football. If he played for Everton people would come on here and slag him off calling him Sergio Sideways, as all he ever has to do is receive simple passes and give simple passes. There is no pressure on him to create, nor is there actually any pressure on him to defend, as his team always has the ball. When he does have to defend, he's not always up to it, and Barcelona still concede goals despite having around 65-70% possession in pretty much every game.
Karl makes a good point, and I would agree that the best defensive midfielders are capable of being far more than that, I don't think Busquets is. Its all guesswork I know but try to imagine him playing for someone else. Imagine him at Everton being out muscled, throwing himself to the ground clutching his face after every physical challenge and doing nothing more positive than give the ball to the other players with simple ten yard passes. The team he plays at the heart of is outstanding, he as an individual is not.
Brian, I think there's quite an important difference between the praise Moyes has given Fellaini and a claim that Busquets is better/more important to Barcelona than Xavi, Iniesta, David Villa or Gerard Pique. Fellaini has been brilliant at times but also inconsistent, and is a very young man playing in a difficult league in a foreign country. He isn't playing for his home town club alongside the best players in the world amongst his friends that he's grown up with. Man management sometimes requires that you give your young players confidence and something to believe in.
103 Posted 23/06/2011 at 19:39:36
Busquets to me is the perfect defensive midfielder, shame he spoils it with his on field antics.
104 Posted 23/06/2011 at 19:49:30
Wouldn't be nice if they actually got banned for that sort of thing? I'd love to see his face when he got told he was missing the Champions League final because he kept play acting.
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